Might be your only chance of saving the run.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
earnest helm
I guess hitting Patroclus with 0 defiances and then getting 1 defiance from Athena and a second one from well before Hades counts as getting lucky so that was definitely the best tip
mossy zinc
The meta strategy for LC4 is taking Stubborn Defiance. Good job getting that done with DDs.
earnest helm
I almost switched it before my second attempt but decided to go with DD's still
mossy zinc
You can submit your run to the leaderboard. Link is the in the pins. 
north dove
Time to get back on the zag sword grind
edgy arrow
if you grind zag sword enough does it eventually get sharp
north dove
I hope so, don't want to be stuck with a dull sword
mossy zinc
What's the goal?
north dove
56 heat
edgy arrow
yeah good luck with it Retrash
north dove
zag sword is more fun but obviously nemesis is a more powerful aspect
solemn pulsar
Zag sword = zoom
mossy zinc
Alright. Thank you.
agile harness
For Rama, what is usually the go-to 32 heat distribution?
shy plinth
Some pretty dope pins about 32 heat distribution
Rama can get away with DC2 more than other weapons
Really depends what you're comfortable with in general and what heat/pacts you're coming from
Not everyone is used to FO2 etc
north dove
welp https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/819398486751182868/unknown.png still got a sack to go but just wanted to take this screenshot before my untimely demise
shy gulch
pain
unique zephyr
Lost 32 heat zag bow attempt to EM3 again 😦
Didn't help I lost tooth in the very first room in Elysium 😦
At least I got to the Heroes in my last two attempts
sullen minnow
What did you feel like was hurting?
unique zephyr
twin shot is awesome except vs bull
my ability to dodge I guess
i was making excellent time
sullen minnow
That’s an important ability
unique zephyr
TD3 was no problem at all
sullen minnow
Welcome to the cult of zag bow my boy
Zag bow good send tweet
Now comes the harder lesson
unique zephyr
i think I need to dash attack in safer places
sullen minnow
Lowering your heart rate
unique zephyr
twin shot means I get up close and personal
sullen minnow
And learning safety alongside speed
unique zephyr
twin shot is amazing damage
but less safe
i also got point blank shot as second hammer
sullen minnow
Mmmmmm you say that
The hitbox is deceiving
The outer reaches of it
I would say you have rail range at Max with twin shot
Though point blank doesn't help lol
That's still amazing burst damage when safe tho
(2x100%)X150%
unique zephyr
I tend to underestimate range with bow and spear
sullen minnow
Mmhmmm
unique zephyr
I was using artemis attack
sullen minnow
Especially with twin shot, let the outer reach of the hitbox surprise you
Zag bow is quite literally ranged nem, so Artemis attack is correct 100% of the time
unique zephyr
Ok good to know, should I go for heart rend or is god’s pride better
honest kernel
You want Pride for Hermes and Chaos still
sullen minnow
Heart rend will come to you. Heart rend is a great add on. Know what makes zag bow sing? Epic arty attack and maybe dash too for bow
unique zephyr
For zag bow
unique zephyr
Ah ok I’ll do god’s pride next time
honest kernel
Legacy is if you really, really want duos
honest kernel
Example : Beowulf, anything wanting Merciful End and you don't want to highroll
Possibly some hangover builds too ?
sullen minnow
Zeus too..... ish? Not really tho
shy plinth
I could see a world where you want low tol+nausea on chiron more than you wanted purps
honest kernel
Zeus builds wants Epic jolted and core boons badly
shy plinth
But purple hangover special is still so good
sullen minnow
Maaaaybe arty if you’re determined to get more casts?
honest kernel
Artemis could do legacy ok
If you don't want to rely on Chaos, and don't care too much about Hermes, that is
honest kernel
But yeah, not for Fully Loaded
sullen minnow
Zeus builds wants Epic jolted and core boons badly
Yeah the more I think about that the worse it gets. Zeus’ true strength is in the body of his kit, splitting bolt is just a great cherry
Epic thunder special on zeus shield for instance is how you start a proper run
shy plinth
Purple boons in tartarus just make the whole run easier
sullen minnow
Kind of..... period. And for that you want pride
shy plinth
Except for when I keepsake athena for merciful end and get the choice between white special or purple dash
honest kernel
Even if you don't get Splitting Bolt, you still get fantastic boons on the side
sullen minnow
yeah
shy plinth
Zeus support boons are super high quality
sullen minnow
Great T1s 🤝 Better T2s
Zeus
honest kernel
Storm Lightning and High Voltage : "What is my purpose ?"
Zagreus : "You unlock Splitting Bolt"
sullen minnow
lollllll
honest kernel
Storm Lightning and High Voltage : "Oh. My. Hades."
sullen minnow
I wish storm lightning did more 😤
Like make the bounces count as between-foes so +6 actually means something all of the sudden
true fable
theres this really funny clip of ello playing eris
where he's like
"look how much storm lightning's doing in this room"
and then he checks his boon screen and doesnt have it
honest kernel
lmao
north dove
can someone delete tiny vermin from the game smh
no successful attempts today, we'll get em next time
vital grove
Bring a cat next time
shy plinth
There are rare chances where I get epic high voltage when I already have double strike and a bunch of other zappy stuff and the high voltage... looks cool?
north dove
high voltage always feels really satisfying, not sure if it actually helps that much though
vital grove
I like it if I have Zeus call or lightning rod
quartz mantle
Wait does Storm lightning actually do anything for zeus attack?
vital grove
Epic voltage with a pom or two makes lightning rod hit the whole map
quartz mantle
I was always under the impression that the chain wasn't long enough to make use of it
shy plinth
If things are close enough together it does bounce more
But it is really just a prereq for bolt
honest kernel
Not enough enemies are close enough for Storm Lightning to matter
High Voltage sorta not really increases the AoE range, meaning it's a range buff
Kinda like Black Metal
unique zephyr
Died 3 or 4 times in a row in Tartarus for Zag bow 32 :/
is charged shot good on zag bow? had a hard time using it
funny how I got to elysium twice in a row then died in Tartarus the next few runs
such is high heat
I want to get to the level where 32 is the heat I can meme on, maybe someday
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/819438999239524382/unknown.png I forgot how winning felt... 50 heat feels like a breeze compared to what I've been attempting 
wanton plover
bronze viper
high voltage always feels really satisfying, not sure if it actually helps that ...
Omg I'm not the only one who feels this? Lol, Thunder Dash feels so good with High Voltage, even if it's not doing anything.
Fwiw though I think it's great on Zeus' Aid. Actually makes it AoE.
frosty bloom
what are good boons for each weapons? I just found out that zeus special on aspect of chiron isnt good cuz theres some cool down apparently. thats when i realized i still have lots to learn lol
shy plinth
That's a big question lol
wanton plover
thats a big question monkas just too many weapons to talk about. better to ask one at a time
shy plinth
^
wanton plover
for chiron, i like art spec and aph atk
true fable
zeus special on chiron can still be decent too
LOL
its like
that's just such a question
shy plinth
Artemis is good on like... most things
true fable
artemis/zeus/aphro are generally pretty good
frosty bloom
is there a general rule of thumb? like boons that stack go on fast weapons? etc
shy plinth
The most basic rule is that if something has an on-hit effect you want it on fast hits
true fable
zeus usually stacks well on fast RoF weapons
shy plinth
And if it has a big chonky hit you want something with +% damage
true fable
^
shy plinth
Artemis athena aphrodite demeter and sometimes poseidon
frosty bloom
The most basic rule is that if something has an on-hit effect you want it on fas...
on-hit efffect like hangover and frost?
shy plinth
Specifically Ares, Dio, and Zeus
frosty bloom
zeus usually stacks well on fast RoF weapons
RoF?
frosty bloom
so zeus is good on chiron special? i know that artemis is probably better
true fable
youd be better off asking someone who actually likes chiron
like ledger
whenever he's here
shy plinth
I feel like Chiron is either hangover stacking or get conc volley
true fable
currently holds chiron heat wr
shy plinth
Also it is kind of worth noting
This channel craps on Chiron a lot lol
It falls off tremendously at high heat because of how slow the animation is
wanton plover
why
frosty bloom
whose ledger? you guys know each other here by name? LOL
wanton plover
oh darn
frosty bloom
idk im kidna new to all this
shy plinth
Yeah this channel is like 20 regulars
What heat are you pushing?
We're glad to answer questions but also this channel is folks who push 40+ heat regularly
#h1-builds-and-combat is definitely more geared towards general play
frosty bloom
highest is 12 so far, but thats cuz im tryna get each weapons to the same heat one at a time
shy plinth
Yeah that's a good goal
I did the same thing
And 12 is quite good if you're new to this 🙂
This is the current Chiron heat record if you wanna see
Ledger is VERY good at bow in general and chiron in specific
But it might as well be a different game at 50 heat, it's crazy
true fable
pierced butterfly you just go hestia so you dont get hit lol
but its kind of a meme
like it's not very good
mossy zinc
Hestia and Guan Yu are probably ideal for Pierced Butterfly.
It's fun and good practice, at least.
frosty bloom
guan yu, w a t. is guan yu good? or does it require a specific build lol
true fable
guan yu is probably alright
its probably better and worse than people think
i think it falls somewhere in the middle
mossy zinc
You can easily no-hit chambers with the Special, especially if you get Charged Skewer.
bronze viper
whose ledger? you guys know each other here by name? LOL
Yeah, Hades community is pretty tight knit. People end up specializing in stuff and we're all about sharing information and experience.
Re: Chiron and your question with Thunder Flourish. So, Thunder Flourish (and lightning bolts in general) have a .2 second internal cooldown, so if a weapon hits multiple times in that space of time, you only get 1 proc. That is typically the case with Chiron, though some angle, and distances, or hammers like Relentless Volley, which increase the amount of time your special takes make it easier to get 2, maybe 3 if you're very lucky, procs.
halcyon flame
generally not worth going for it
bronze viper
Tl;dr it's not worth it. I did it for memes but it's not good lol. I found 3 builds to work for the special:
- Deadly Flourish - The default build. Chiron hits a lot so the crit is very consistent. Scales really well with additive damage (including damage from Piercing Volley) along with Concentrated/Relentless Volley.
- Heartbreak Flourish - A somewhat high roll strat. You can take Lightning Strike (or Heartbreak Strike with Thunder Flourish) and aim for Smoldering Air with a damage call. Chiron builds call charge extremely fast, so you can end up chaining calls very quickly. Works particularly well with Dionysus' Aid.
- Drunken Flourish - Pair with Curse of Agony or Heartbreak Strike for their duos. Alternatively, if you get like Twin Shot or something you can pair with Deadly Strike for the Arty/Dio duo. By far your best hammer here is Piercing Volley, to kill armored enemies faster.
halcyon flame
arty special or hangover works way better, like way way better
heartbreak flourish isn't very strong so it's bad if you're going td3
drunken flourish is high-roll but very strong once you manage to get low tolerance + curse of nausea, and splitting headache if you can get it
shy plinth
"get smoldering air" is a good strategy on any weapon
But not sure if it's build-around-able
bronze viper
It's fine on Chiron since you build call charge so fast anyway, you don't ever need Smoldering Air. It's just nice. Clouded Judgement is pretty much always good enough lol
halcyon flame
hangover chiron also doesn't really need hammers, the hangover will eat through armor on its own
shy plinth
Yeah I'm going for 32
No need to punish myself
Trying to decide between heart rend and deadly reversal but I'll just let the game decide for me
bronze viper
Probably neither? I really hate using Special on Zag bow lol
shy plinth
I mean I don't NEED either
But DR is active with dash after getting the duo on special yeah?
bronze viper
Only if you get a deflect, and only for 2 seconds. That's not enough I don't think for 2 charge shots (I don't actually know if a dash strike charge is <1 second)
bronze viper
Yeah, Zag bow is 1 boon build. Your duos are Battle Rage and Hunter's Mark lol
shy plinth
Hah
halcyon flame
you could go for passion dash and triple/twin shot for heart rend
but maybe that playstyle is too risky
bronze viper
I like Tidal, Hunter, and Divine. Tidal is such huge QoL for Zag bow
Small annoying things are such a pain
shy plinth
Tidal ooh
halcyon flame
from my experience tidal just constantly disrupts your aim because it keeps bouncing targets around
also it ruins twin/triple
bronze viper
Lol, that's a fair criticism. It def doesn't work with Triple for sure
halcyon flame
well actually just triple
bronze viper
I haven't had an issue with Twin though
shy plinth
Sniper shot or chain shot 
bronze viper
It's actually kind of perfect for twin because it knocks stuff to your max range anyway
shy plinth
I'm feelin chain
bronze viper
Okay, okay, hot take here. Sniper Shot isn't literally pointless on Zag bow :3
true fable
well
bronze viper
It's the worst attack hammer by far, but it's not nothing
halcyon flame
ahem The Temple of Styx
shy plinth
Haaaaa
mossy zinc
hangover chiron also doesn't really need hammers, the hangover will eat through ...
It certainly does, but outside of Piercing Volley, you'll want Attack hammers.
halcyon flame
just get point-blank or perfect shot smh
bronze viper
Also grinding Zag bow so much, I think I have my hammer order currently at: Twin, Triple, Explosive, Perfect, Point Blank >>>> Sniper
solar maple
sniper shot is just so sad
bronze viper
It's OP at bosses. All bosses stand still and posture for a long time
halcyon flame
sniper shot is just so painfully unreliable
bronze viper
It's next to completely worthless in normal rooms though lol
mossy zinc
Charged Volley > Sniper Shot, probably.
halcyon flame
not even to mention it's totally worthless at styx and might as well not have it at hades
bronze viper
I have died miserably with every run I got a "value" Charged Volley lmao. Because my lizard brain wants me to use it for maximum "value"
halcyon flame
when is he even ever at sniper shot range
mossy zinc
*to the point*
bronze viper
Dad? All the time. If you dodge in the opposite direction of his spin he tends to stop at Sniper range
Lol, don't get me wrong. It's a terrible hammer. But it's not like, Stygius bad. I've found uses. Zag bow does a lot with huge additive damage
mossy zinc
I think the difficulty of making Sniper Shot work is typically exaggerated, but it's still not very good.
Easy to place shots with FO0, though.
Not a speedrun build, but very safe for new players.
halcyon flame
i'm surprised there isn't at least a sniper shot hammer exclusively for hestia rail
that's like the one thing it could actually really work for
bronze viper
Are there exclusive hammers for any non-secret aspect?
mossy zinc
Nope.
shy plinth
Why did nobody tell me zag bow is big pumpin
This is so much damage
https://i.imgur.com/qpW4juQ.jpeg I don't usually make it through Lernie this fast
halcyon flame
zag bow 💪
my 12:16 pb is still zag bow lol
explosive shot on fo2 though
😐
why
shy plinth
My other two hammers were relentless and some other bad volley
And it's big pumpin
Whatever I have to learn FO2 better anyway
So far so good
13:29 wtf
I should play zag bow more
true fable
yeah it kind of
doesnt require one?
since you have built in deadly strike
at least for tart
for lategame scaling youd probably want one
LOL
or shackle maybe
shy plinth
I got deadly strike in asphodel which was obv the dream
But I got hunter dash and explosive shot in tart
Which is basically an attack boon
I had no idea the weapon was so good
It feels like some weird fusion of Eris and Hestia
Like I was constantly dashing in to quickly charge up a giant attack
edgy arrow
zag bow’s only problem is that it’s a zag weapon so people dismiss it out of hand lol
mossy zinc
Rama just outclasses Zag Bow.
mossy zinc
Definitely in speed at high heat and on average. High end at any heat, maybe Zag Bow would win.
shy plinth
Either way I agree with @edgy arrow, I just hadn't played any aspect that started with the word "zagreus"
Most of them seemed boring but zag bow feels significantly different
I'm looking forward to playing shield and I'm really not looking forward to sword and spear
mossy zinc
Zag Shield is very good and quite fun.
shy plinth
I stand by the statement that zag shield is the base fists aspect
edgy arrow
yeah zag shield is also good
honest kernel
I'm looking forward to playing shield and I'm really not looking forward to swor...
Shield is fun
I prefer aspect of Zeus on it tho
hearty onyx
Aspect of Chaos with Doom on the special is also very good
honest kernel
ares is def not as straightforward to use to me so seems fair
sullen minnow
Most of them seemed boring but zag bow feels significantly different
Welcome to the cult
celest grail
lmao
vital grove
One shot, one kill.
solemn pulsar
(15-30% of the time, depending on attack boon)
bronze viper
I'm looking forward to playing shield and I'm really not looking forward to swor...
Zag Spear is fun, because you get Flurry Jab, and you realize that you don't have a permanent 150% damage buff or free mobility.
Lmao, Zag Spear took me so many less attempts than Achilles at 40 though, because I think my unga bunga instinct was so much harder to resist on Achilles.
tropic stream
don't you just love FO Hl elite shields
vital grove
I got 40 Achilles in 1
Phalanx Shot OP
I did get ULTRA LUCKY with a Mirage Shot in Tartarus. Lol
mossy zinc
It's pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat like always.
vital grove
Nice
Oh nooooo.
You're evil.
Well, you can just play standard Eris until you find the hazard
And that could be deep into Elysium or even in Styx
mossy zinc
I'll leave the strategizing to you. 
solemn pulsar
or use a secret technique, forgotten by even the gods themselves
mossy zinc
I would help, but m in the woods with Lady Artemis and Callisto, and there's just really bad reception here.
vital grove
Are you allowed other boons or just the Artemis special?
mossy zinc
You can have other boons.
quartz mantle
Wait
Can I retroactively use my 40 heat Eris run for this?
Nevermind I didn't have HS on 
true fable
should it be hazard bomb start?
mossy zinc
There's no rule against it. The extra challenge is optional.
mossy zinc
should it be hazard bomb start?
It doesn't have to be.
If there was an in-game way to share seeds, I probably would have done that with a Hazard Bomb start, but as it is, it would just require an unpleasant amount of resetting.
quartz mantle
So i can't seem to find a place to submit runs since I can't type in the Form Submission, how would I go about submitting a challenge run?
mossy zinc
You can't fill out the submission form? https://forms.gle/phaXPmYHEixNi5TL9
quartz mantle
I didn't see that anywhere
mossy zinc
There's a link to that on each tab in the spreadsheet.
quartz mantle
sorry for being blind
mossy zinc
Gotta scroll to the right same as the high heat leaderboard.
mossy zinc
Nah it's fine. Design is at fault.
plush bobcat
When it says who are you it's asking for your discord tag right?
mossy zinc
Any name you like. Doesn't have to be your Discord name.
plush bobcat
ok!
quartz mantle
Can I submit multiple times?
true fable
yeah probably dont doxx yourself tho
quartz mantle
Cause I do want to do the extra challenge but I like having the 40 heat run for it
mossy zinc
There's no rule against multiple submissions.
quartz mantle
Cool
wide quest
god rama is such a free high heat weapon
im now a proud member of 45 heat gang
idk if its considered a "good" heat setup but i did hl5, lc4, cf2, js3, em3, cp2, bp2, mm, uc, fo1, hs, ri1, dc2, ap1, td2, pl
i got what i think are garbage hammers
quartz mantle
Rama is stronk
wide quest
like sniper shot
it sucked
honestly i got carried by the epic aphro attack i got at the start
also pat came in clutch
also its terrifying to go into styx with only 9 minutes ;w;
bright mango
If you use Rama right, it is really good
wide quest
it feels like cheating ngl
wide quest
no im terrified of hl5 fo2
wide quest
im not fast enough for td3 yet ;w;
wide quest
Congrats on the victory!!
:3
wintry berry
My 45 heat Rama was with TD2
wide quest
since i had ap1 and i knew i could get crappy hammers i just wanted to be safe
since i always run td2 for >20 and sometimes less
wide quest
and tbh, im too scared to jump any higher
cuz i would need to put all the scary heats
em4 sweats
bright mango
After a few 50 attempts, 40 heat felt ezpz ngl
wide quest
I've never actually beaten EM4 before
:o
i mean thats fine
em4 kinda fun but imo sucks the second you put heat on
like hs, hl5, fo2
quartz mantle
I just hide my cowardice behind doing heat on weapons
wide quest
since now hes fast and you cant see him
bright mango
Fo2 + em4 is harder than some weapons at 40 ngl
wintry berry
I have only 2 clears with Hestia
bright mango
Yeah just remember he does the machine gun attack twice in a row
wide quest
but what heat do yall reccomend taking for turning it up :3
bright mango
49
wide quest
rama still since im baby
bright mango
Nooooo
wide quest
just slap it on??
mossy zinc
but what heat do yall reccomend taking for turning it up :3
RI4.
quartz mantle
Yes
quartz mantle
Ri is 8 free heat just don't get hit
wide quest
since ill be loosing out on thick skin and ps
bright mango
Ri is 8 free heat just don't get hit
Stonks
wide quest
i missclicked on my dio boon and took call instead of special
it made me very mad
since i lost easy ps
mossy zinc
But you got the best DPS Call in the game. Can't be too mad about that.
bright mango
I was speedrunning yesterday and I took sure footing instead of epic proud bearing
mossy zinc
Just mash your Call button if you have Dionysus' Aid tbh.
wide quest
the effects throw me off for calls too
bright mango
It was going to be nemesis sub 10
bright mango
All the normal ones + JS3 and CP2
bright mango
Actually JS3 + CP1 since you use hell mode
wide quest
for thats left
wide quest
bright mango
And RI
wintry berry
or TD2 + EM4
quartz mantle
If you can get used to playing fast td3 won't seem that bad trust me
wide quest
i almost got timed out like every area
and yea i got garbage hammers
but still
it was too close
bright mango
or TD2 + EM4
That as well
unique zephyr
I used to think I couldn’t do TD3 but I’m getting more used to it now
wide quest
and honestly the only thing that bothers me on em4 is phase 1 minibosses and phase 3
bright mango
That’s why you gotta take tooth
unique zephyr
For me if the run is slow it’s usually dead anyway because of bad execution or build
So TD3 sometimes mercy kills bad runs
It does mean your room selection is limited and you take mid shops even though you can’t afford anything though
wide quest
oh thatll hurt
since i dont like shops if i cant buy anything
and everything is expensive since cf2
unique zephyr
What are you thinking of pact wise
quartz mantle
I'll put on so many more pacts before I put on cf2 lmao
unique zephyr
Although I only did 32 heat and one clear so I am no expert
quartz mantle
I'm just too greedy
wide quest
hl5, lc4, cf2, js3, em3, cp2, bp2, mm, uc, fo1, hs, ri1, dc2, ap1, td2, pl was my 45
i might take em4 and just do 49
unique zephyr
I jumped straight to it but FO1 experience means you’ll take less time
FO2 takes many tries to get used to
bright mango
Nah u gotta take fo2 at 49/50
wintry berry
FO2 is mandatory past 40-45
quartz mantle
You'll be shooting yourself in the foot with all the other heat you need to make up for not taking fo2
wide quest
t just scares me
unique zephyr
RI1 is actually worse probably
wide quest
since i already wasnt comfy with everything being faster including projectiles
unique zephyr
No Dark foresight means fewer centaur hearts too though
wide quest
yeaa
i got life affirmation so i was happy :3
i think i hit around 250 hp
maybe
idl
idk
unique zephyr
For TD3 practice I turned off time adding stuff like CP, JS, and DC but one level of the first two is mandatory on hell mode
I don’t have hell mode so don’t know much about that though
wide quest
i mean with rama and the right hammers it seems free but im too baby
wide quest
ap1 was soo nice to me on 45 tho
gave me an epic aphro attack, athena dash
extra dashes from hermes
it was very nice to me
bright mango
Yeah ap2 is no good with rama since you need good hammers
wintry berry
AP2 is free if you are lucky enough
wide quest
if
bright mango
Fax
wintry berry
with no luck AP2 is hell
bright mango
On hestia it’s sorta free
sullen minnow
Shackle hestia dgaf
bright mango
That’s why hestia is one, if not the best high heat weapon
wide quest
if i do take ap2 i should do a shackle start right??
but then what happens when i hit bosses??
sullen minnow
No reason not to
wide quest
do i just keep shackle for like hades?
sullen minnow
Honestly if your run is going well absolutely
That’s talking about getting good chaos rolls tho
Which is how you scale shackle
sullen minnow
But if you’re gonna sit at the AP2 gambling table, hestia is the best overall hand you can hold imo
quartz mantle
That’s why hestia is one, if not the best high heat weapon
Scary Damage Control noises
wintry berry
Arthur can be ok with AP2
bright mango
*Scary Damage Control noises*
👀
wintry berry
since it has some big base damage
sullen minnow
*Scary Damage Control noises*
Trigger warning this please I’m having an episode
bright mango
Yeah but arthur sucks at high heat
sullen minnow
Don’t let peach catch you saying that lol
wintry berry
It sucks bc you don't know how to handle your swings
bright mango
Well i can but fo2 scawy
bright mango
Lol
wide quest
but i just like 30% damage reduction
sullen minnow
I could see there being a lot of tech for movement
Cause nothing looks natural when peach is holding Arthur
bright mango
Peach is pog with arthur
wintry berry
He hasn't done 50 heat afaik
sullen minnow
Still
My mans playing qwop with a two-handed Boulder and making it work somehow
Respect
bright mango
He hasn't done 50 heat afaik
You have right?
shy plinth
Nah it's fine. Design is at fault.
mossy zinc
https://tenor.com/view/shrug-speechless-idont-know-idk-you-tell-me-gif-14840952
Google's design.
We're innocent.
bronze viper
Beo friends. Am I missing something? Charged Shot seems... really really bad. The damage doesn't really compensate well enough for the last of bull rush invincibility and mobility
Also I'm clipping my finest pile of spaghetti I've had in a while.
mossy zinc
You'll need to learn to use Charged Shot. You can still just hold your Attack to block anything.
It's a lot like a more powerful Hera that can block.
true fable
well ok
so heres the thing with charged shot
preload
preload all your casts
also minimum charge is best if you dont need to block anything
charged shot dmg is uniform regardless of charge time
devout quiver
oof
pseudo kernel
f
true fable
weve been seeing a solid amount of beo spaghetti recently
im linking the astaos clip because it makes me laugh
mossy zinc
He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready.
To drop Casts, but he keeps on forgetting . . .
bronze viper
It was a matter of me being surprised like 5 different times that he didn't die lol. I didn't actually process I'd have to keep playing after Meg
Everything that follows is the spaghetti finding forceful egress from my pockets
bronze viper
Yep lol. I kept a save of the fight. EM4 is pretty hard with Charged Shot. Not like... non-shield aspect hard, but def not base Beo lol
mossy zinc
There's a new challenge pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat if you haven't seen it yet.
bronze viper
I was going to play Eris tonight provided I finished Beo 50. Very clearly that did not happen so we'll see :3
bronze viper
You can't see from the clip, but I have Dio's Aid + Curse of Nausea, Curse of Agony, Divine Dash, Merciful End, and Hyper Delivery
I kind of didn't want to win that run because of the level of carry lmao
And I got my wish
mossy zinc
That run was one decision away from clearing lol.
bronze viper
Also +2 DD
I'm practicing to see if I can get the fight down to 0 or 1 DD lost
Because if I can't do it on that build it's just not happening with Charged Shot lol
solar maple
charged shot speeds up room clear a bunch but makes bosses harder. Especially em4
Unless you're tail lol
eternal hare
having to preload casts with charged shot on default controller binds feels really awkward too
bronze viper
I have it bound LT it's fine
sullen minnow
RT for me
bright mango
Astaos without GY is like a fish out of water(at 50 heat)
the beo was hilarious to watch
All his beo runs
sullen minnow
Felt like a natural extension of FPS muscle memory to have cast on the usual trigger
bronze viper
@bright mango DId you see the video I linked above? I did a couple of attempts while Astaos was streaming
bright mango
yeah of 50 beo right?
That sucks
Whoa it says you are battling the final boss
Did you make it again with beo?
bronze viper
I mean, practicing Charged Shot gives me a nice middle ground between shield and non-shield EM4 though lol, because you don't have time to shield + release then shield the follow up spin, so you actually need to iframe it.
I kept the save of that botched run
bright mango
Ah ok
bronze viper
I've made it to super dad 4x so far
gaunt fiber
bronze viper
I think a pretty necessary prereq is gettng extremely comfortable with 45 without the icky pacts that make stuff inconsistent
gaunt fiber
look at this build
bronze viper
If you can do that then 50 won't be such a slog
gaunt fiber
Pure love power
bronze viper
But if you're trying to learn mechanically while things are inconsistent it can be pretty frustrating. Though that's how Astaos did 50 lmao and it eventually worked out for him :3
bright mango
Lol
gaunt fiber
Hey!
bright mango
i guess time for 45 all weps
gaunt fiber
I did some active learning too :(
bronze viper
Yeah but he only found out he had to practice Dad and Asterius until RNG blessed him with a good run.
You could do that in reverse, when RNG isn't a thing :3
bright mango
True
gaunt fiber
pff
bright mango
I guess I'm just gonna keep all the difficult pacts at 45 and no AP
gaunt fiber
Yup
bright mango
So max out everything else except AP and RI and stuff
bright mango
yeah exactly
gaunt fiber
big big jump
bright mango
But today I'm just gonna do the monthly challenge 🙂
mossy zinc
Yeah but he only found out he had to practice Dad and Asterius until RNG blessed...
If only someone had told him to grind boss fights.
bronze viper
Lmao, in his defense he was just getting mechanically better overall the last couple of weeks
So it's wasn't for nothing
bright mango
Cries in switch
gaunt fiber
MECHANICALLY
mossy zinc
Because he's a 
.
bronze viper
@bright mango Which 50 did you have your sights on?
bright mango
Rama probably
I just cant deal with the timer with hestia
especially with JS3 and CP2
bronze viper
I def did TD2 with Hestia lol, just had to turn AP2 on.
That's not a reflection of the aspect, but the player
bright mango
Oh right I should probably take RI2
With enough practice though I think now 50 is within reach
eternal hare
I think going from RI0 to RI2 is the most significant thing to adjust to so I personally like using my regular 40heat pact but with RI2 thrown in to practice
shy gulch
for hestia 50 i did RI2 AP2 TD3 i think
bronze viper
Yeah, RI2 messed with door evaluation early in the run.
shy gulch
it was like, fine
bright mango
50 is not fine for me 🙂
wintry berry
RI2, 50hp feelings unless you're Guan Yu or Arthur
bronze viper
lmfao, that feeling when it takes two hearts for GY to hit 50 health
true fable
doing an erebus gate to get the base level of health is poggers
shy gulch
stonks
bright mango
I’m doing the monthly challenge and I’ve reached styx and I still dont have deadly flourish
😦
THERE’S AN ARTEMIS IS STYX SHOP THAT COSTS 810
WHATT
gaunt fiber
Your run seems kinda dead boyo
bright mango
PURGING WELL FTW
sullen minnow
Ayyyyyy
waxen relic
Alright, so i thought i'd work a bit towards 6x40 at least, picked Arthur was somehow missing 3 Heat, put on FO2 after all, got Hoard/Dash/Cursed as Hammer; took Cursed cuz why not, got to Heroes, got stunned seeing they were EM2, somehow made it through but died to 44 damage charges from the tiny Vermin. I didn't remember them being this evil. Maybe tommorow i'll get it.
bright mango
Ok a random trap killed me
That’s great
Its fine
I made it to styx first try
I’m happy
mossy zinc
Good luck!
bright mango
Yeah I’m doing 40 heat
The only problem so far was not getting deadly flourish
Then i head go through all the styx chambers to get money
gaunt fiber
tbh not getting deadly flourish too early is not that bad
bright mango
I didn’t have it the entire run 😦
unique zephyr
Zag bow 32 heat attempt died to EM3, I haven't gotten past Elysium with Zag bow in 32 yet 😦
It's probably just a matter of time till I get it, I hope
mossy zinc
What keepsake do you take into Elysium?
unique zephyr
Skelly's Tooth
mossy zinc
Take Acorn if it's just EM3 that's giving you problems.
unique zephyr
I used up tooth in Elysium before that
gaunt fiber
Then tooth good
mossy zinc
Yeah, Lucky Tooth then.
gaunt fiber
It's still a tough choice for me
unique zephyr
It was unfortunate I was low HP at Lernie so I had to use a Meg there
so I didn't have one for buttefly ball
it was a pretty bad butterfly ball fight though
gaunt fiber
Butterfly without a summon is indeed a bad fight
But you should be able to save a summon for it though, where did you use it?
mossy zinc
You don't have all your summons maxed yet, right?
That will help a lot when you have 5 Meg summons a run.
Night Spindle is also huge if you have the money for it.
bronze viper
Yeah, taking a non-maxed companion into TD3 is a pretty solid handicap, too
mossy zinc
It's definitely good practice, though.
gaunt fiber
For classic mini bosses yeah
But for a Soul Catcher, meh
It's a race anyway and not using a summon will kill your time
I don't think it's good practice since it's a classic Elysium room
unique zephyr
I used at at Lernie
emergency
i had like 20 HP with no defy
so I was scared of dying on phase 3
do any of you still time out in Tartarus in TD3 occasionally?
gaunt fiber
Of course :D
unique zephyr
i just did but bad BP combos and minimum free rooms
ok good to know that's not unusual
tardy path
do any of you still time out in Tartarus in TD3 occasionally?
Obviously
gaunt fiber
Tartarus can be really tough
tardy path
I'm lucky to even get a second free in Tartarus with TD3
gaunt fiber
The room rng is huge for Tartarus
Some layouts are terrible, and combined with bad enemies it's just an amazing waste of time
unique zephyr
I think I can see why Bablo did TD2 for his streak: TD3 introduces RNG
shy plinth
RNG is always there
unique zephyr
since I'm not streaking though I'll use TD3
shy plinth
You just notice it more
unique zephyr
Is other RNG stuff like bad boons or what
I did have to use all my rerolls in Tartarus one run
just to get Arty attack
tardy path
More like bad rooms
shy plinth
Or a pile of naked brightswords or something
tardy path
If I get BP witches I just cry
I'm a firm believer that you can still make any boon option work
shy plinth
Like the order of every biome is randomized, all the boons you see are randomized unless you keepsake, all the hammers are random, bp combos are random
The game is innately highly variant
TD just makes it much more punishing if you whiff
But so do a bunch of other pact options, TD just makes it clearer
mossy zinc
I don't think it's good practice since it's a classic Elysium room
What are you talking about? TD3 with non-maxed summons is good practice because you just gotta deal with all sorts of situations without a summon.
Dire Soul Catcher is also not just a "classic Elysium room". Other rooms don't have Exalted Shades that just keep spawning until you kill the miniboss.
High heat, you can be in those situations without having a summon to spare. So getting that kind of experience is good.
tardy path
Nyaan's just built different
gaunt fiber
Not for Ely's miniboss imo
tardy path
But nah I agree
gaunt fiber
Tartarus is one summon, Asphodel 2 at max
But yeah it's definitely practice
But a practice I don't want to do 
gaunt fiber
The soul catcher with low damage is terrifying
True
But being able to clear the souls as well as other enemies is useful for sure
mossy zinc
Why is it terrifying? I've been told it's just a "classic Elysium room".
shy plinth
Elysium is terrifying
unique zephyr
You don't have all your summons maxed yet, right?
I have Meg and Antos maxed
Btw are these the standard megs: 1. Tartarus mini boss (Sneak or Doomstone) 2. Asphodel mini boss 3. Elysium mini boss 4. Styx mini boss 5. Hades
And how does it change with Antos?
gaunt fiber
You usually take Antos to be able to use it against the furies
shy plinth
I usually meg heroes
gaunt fiber
^
shy plinth
Yeah
gaunt fiber
It's too much value
shy plinth
Wriste taught me about the press up technique
Damage control gets sketchy if you're not super fast
shy plinth
Lol what
solar maple
if you don't have DC just hold up and mash summon at the start of the fight
hits both every time
gaunt fiber
I do a a circle real quick then Meg mr. Hat
mossy zinc
Or dash up once and hit both every time. Or dash between them and hit both every time.
I dunno, it's not rocket science.
mossy zinc
The 360 Meg
But do you no-scope, though?
gaunt fiber
Absolutely, no scope at all
bronze viper
Why does holding up work? How does Meg pick an angle?
shy plinth
Perpendicular to your direction
So if you face up it's a horizontal line
Hits em both
shy plinth
Yeah I was also mindblown
shy plinth
Yeah I mean if you're hitting doomstone or butterfly ball or whatever you press the button and meg hits the thing
unique zephyr
I usually meg heroes
Oh right i Meg heroes...not sure which Meg to give up tho
solar maple
my megs are usually : tart miniboss, aspho miniboss (sometimes lernie) elysium miniboss, heroes, dad
gaunt fiber
need to dash at them though
gaunt fiber
I usually don’t Meg styx if I don’t have extra
Yeah that's good
solar maple
yeah
bronze viper
It matters a lot for EM4 phase 1 if you choose to use a summon to expedite that
solar maple
save 1 for dad
unique zephyr
I Meg dad right when battle starts
bronze viper
For EM4 you may want to hold off for like, any number of scary moments in that fight lol. I prefer either Phase 3 or the second summon phase of Phase 1
I've also attempted to desperation Meg to iframe 
circles
That didn't work lol
gaunt fiber
it should :D
solemn pulsar
it's hard to time the circles
fun fact one of baj's hits in the 64 heat EM4 fight was to a cerberus attack
bronze viper
How indeed
unique zephyr
some rooms you don't have very many places to hide
bronze viper
Please let us know when you find out :3
unique zephyr
like the one I just died in
Too bad I can't post pics, Hypnos said something relevant to high heat
honest kernel
let the dmg shield help u
bronze viper
There's no trick to it, you just do the best you can. Some aspects have abilities that control projectiles pretty well.
unique zephyr
"Ah good, you're back already, huh? A few of us, we had a bet, about how long you'd last out there, and I just knew you'd be back in no time!"
mossy zinc
You just gotta like try to dash towards one diagonally and take one out asap to minimize the projectiles you gotta deal with it.
But it's not really easy to explain because most of it is just intuitive because you gotta decide what to do so fast.
mossy zinc
If you feel like things are going too fast at any point in the run, you can just pause the game and try to see what's going and what you should do next.
solar maple
tart armored witches are some of the hardest enemies in the game
mossy zinc
Not if you have Breaching Cross.
Armored anything don't exist if you have Breaching Cross.
It's just normal enemies. Armor is not a thing.
bronze viper
Eh. You don't have iframes with dash strikes. It's not really a universal fix depending on enemy position and map layout
mossy zinc
Oh I thought you meant Bruiser specifically lol.
solar maple
I just meant in general
bronze viper
I think shields and non-Rama bows have the easiest time with Seeker witches. The bow special does an excellent job of clearing screens of projectiles
mossy zinc
It's pretty late here.
solar maple
they have lots of brutal BP combos
mossy zinc
Well, early.
eternal hare
speeder/cloner + seeker witches are definitely run enders for a lot of my rama runs
unique zephyr
ok, just to be sure, epic hyper sprint > common greatest reflex right
or is the extra dash better
solar maple
it's funny because by elysium I'm usually praying for armored witches haha
unique zephyr
buying hermes from first tart shop
bronze viper
That depends on aspect, but generally any hyper sprint > +1 dash
unique zephyr
Zag bow
bronze viper
Hyper Sprint by a lot
eternal hare
I'd go hyper sprint too
bronze viper
It gives you Sturdy for most of your charge
eternal hare
double movement speed too means the effective distance you cover is like
at least as good if not better
bronze viper
On Zag Bow? There is no escape.
bronze viper
If you have a damage dash you can try to dash dash -> attack (no charge) -> special shotgun -> die
That's the usual combo
unique zephyr
I survived that room...somehow
but I'll probably time out
I bought a chaos gate but not enough HP for chaos
LMAO
bronze viper
Oof, been there
agile harness
I can't do BF2
gaunt fiber
how do I dodge seeker witches
I rush them and try to kill as fast as possible
agile harness
I used to think CF2 was free heat, until I could no longer buy the first boon from Charon.
bronze viper
CF0 at 62
unique zephyr
I beat Tartarus, thanks Than
shy plinth
Hah
shy plinth
GET IT GET IT
edgy arrow
your face when CF0 beo is the first unseeded 62
unique zephyr
btw I buy chaos gates a lot is this right on TD3
bronze viper
@edgy arrow Astaos and I are applying to join BeoSquad
edgy arrow
you're accepted
unique zephyr
I know it's a speedrun strat
bronze viper
Nah, we have to do 50 first
solar maple
it depends
bronze viper
It's a rule
eternal hare
are you on stubborn defiance or DDs?
gaunt fiber
you're accepted
I made it to phase 3 today
edgy arrow
there's no application process, we have zero standards or i wouldn't be in here
unique zephyr
SD
bronze viper
You say that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDkMUaANKws
gaunt fiber
oooooof
eternal hare
buying chaos gates should be fine as a time-saving strategy but I'd also make sure there's enough money for important boons or centaur hearts too
eternal hare
maybe also keep at least a reroll in case all chaos debuffs are highly detrimental to your time/playstyle
edgy arrow
the strat of "get charged shot now its a bow" should work for you lol
shy plinth
Getting charged shot so far has seemed like a good idea
edgy arrow
charged shot good, charged shot vs. EM4 danger
worth it for the time save elsewhere tho
gaunt fiber
vs furies you mean
bronze viper
Charged Shot was 90% why I lost that run I think. I just wasn't used to losing the shield invincibility like literally as soon as you release the shield
solar maple
I always die with charged shot LOL
edgy arrow
yeah you're much more exposed with it
solar maple
I think once I practice it enough it will be good
edgy arrow
yeah same
solar maple
but until then I just die 😦
bronze viper
I kept the save to mess around with the timings with Charged Shot though, since it is so OP for timer
solar maple
👀
edgy arrow
depending on what your other hammer is
true fable
i think it's fine