Oh really
#h1-high-heat-strategies
gaunt fiber
solar maple
yes
shy gulch
the only time tis can be troublesome for me is in the last phase with the triple line of circles
sometimes i get caught by those
but everything else is fine
light stag
pseudo girder
Okay, does anyone have tips for 32 heat Achilles spear???
I've had two great runs get to Hades and yet still I got absolutely clapped by him
One of them even had the Zeus legendary!
pseudo girder
get flurry jab
Yeah. Great advice. Problem: I had Flurry Jab.
solar maple
oh
pseudo girder
So now I'm just stuck
solar maple
you could try a more cast focused build?
pseudo girder
I'm probably going to have to pull off the Athena DD glitch at some point during the run because I can't exactly afford to switch from Acorn to Tooth
solar maple
sometimes those are easier to stay safe with
daring hedge
it kinda sounds like you just need to get used to fighting dad with spear?
shy plinth
@bright mango #h1-victory-boasting message
daring hedge
doing everything right with it would mean a defeated dad 
shy plinth
Also that
wanton plover
pseudo girder
I never exactly had this problem with the other weapons.
Spear is some weird halfstep between Sword and Rail, and it is so clunky
wintry berry
Flurry jab and charged skewer are some serious drugs
shy plinth
I would be so bold as to say that if you are struggling this much with it you are probably not playing it correctly
And might be trying to force it to be something it's not
daring hedge
^
shy plinth
Have you watched vods?
pseudo girder
Yes.
I've looked up guides, and formulated both an ideal Zeus Attack and Zeus Cast build for the weapon
pseudo girder
To make up for the Spear's poor horizontal range
shy plinth
I don't know what that means
shy gulch
yeah if spear doesnt work with you, you can just use a cast build w achilles and not play the spear
those are great at 32
shy plinth
Doesn't the spear have super good range with the raging rush
daring hedge
are you making sure to empty dash to safety enough? that can be an issue with flurry jab high heat
pseudo girder
Yes
pseudo girder
Doesn't the spear have super good range with the raging rush
I mean horizontal range, as in perpendicular to where Zag is facing
shy plinth
Right it's a spear
We dash behind enemies and poke em
But not gonna try to cover all sides
I don't know if zeus cast is the way I'd go
It's relatively low damage and doesn't benefit a ton from the +150%
Like it's not bad but I feel like you'd rather get some higher damage base abilities
Artemis on attack is really good
pseudo girder
By this point I may as well try out the Ares Cast build and see how I'd fare from that instead
shy plinth
Well sure
I mean I'd just say that if what you're doing isn't working then maybe it's not the right plan
pseudo girder
Because Zeus just aint cutting it for me.
Probably going to relegate him to Call if he shows up
daring hedge
hunting blades achilles is certainly pretty brain: off once it gets going
you could go for that
shy plinth
And you still have plenty of options for core boons for other duos
As you can see from my build yesterday with deadly reversal and flurry jab with athena attack+dash
Literally could not get hit
I just held down the deflect button
shy gulch
lol that sounds pretty fun ngl
shy plinth
Was
pseudo girder
Gonna eat dinner, and will try out the Ares Cast build afterwards
I guess Ares Cast never crossed my mind because most every other time it's literally just a meme boon
shy plinth
It is?
Idk it does a bunch of damage
When I think meme boons I think ocean's bounty
shy gulch
r a r e
c r o p
shy plinth
Forcing hunting blades from chamber 1 might count as memey
But slicing shot is not a bad boon
shy gulch
i think slicing shot is a bit of a meme unless u get hunting blades
its a bit too hard to set up otherwise to make it worth it
evne tho it does do quite a bit of damage
shy plinth
You could say the same of any unsupported cast boon on a weapon build
I'm not relying on a trippy shot or a flood flare on eris or whatever and it's not gonna be great but it can still do something
shy gulch
well the issue w slicing shot, trippy shot, and crystal beam is that they usually do very little without a supporting duo, and most of all they remove boiling blood
other casts do not remove boiling blood
shy plinth
Yeah the boiling blood removal does kinda suck
shy gulch
which is the issue for me
shy plinth
That's reasonable
shy plinth
Oh sure
pseudo girder
My definition of a Meme Boon is a boon which is... Alright, but needs a lot of other Boons in order to unlock the full potential of said Boon. By that point you'd literally center your entire build on just that boon alone.
shy plinth
But sometimes I'll take it for UC and then find a vortex and say sure we'll hold on to it
Either way hunting blades or crystal clarity achilles should be totally fine at 32
pseudo girder
Alright
shy gulch
yeah those are perfectly fine for 32
pseudo girder
Thanks for the advice
Turns out the #1 tip for 32 Achilles is to not use Achilles
🙃
shy plinth
I would say the #1 tip is to play weapons you enjoy
There are plenty of players who can destroy high heat with spear
But that's because they want to
Tail posted a 53 hades literally today
shy gulch
yeah i mean achilles being played as achilles is also perfectly good for 32
but if you dont enjoy playing spear then theres also other builds that work
pseudo girder
Gonna be honest: I'm mostly doing this out of obligation. I have to beat 32 Achilles because I have to make the Heat number on my completion screen say 32 all the way through
shy plinth
That is a recipe for hard tilting
pseudo girder
I want that n i c e feeling, you know?
shy plinth
Achilles is a fun weapon if you learn it, it's a good spear, they upgraded the input buffering and it feels legitimately enjoyable imo even though spear is by far my least favorite weapon
But focusing on the results and about how this is the "eat your vegetables" of heat running will just make you unhappy
pseudo girder
And, hey, along the way I'd get better at the game with all the weapons, and I'm honestly having fun with it
Even with the Spear, in spite of my frustration with it
bright mango
Just lost a sub 9 to tiny vermin 3 sack
shy plinth
Oof
bright mango
Why game why
pseudo girder
OOF
bright mango
High heat really helps with speedruns
This was my first speedrun attempt in a while
pseudo girder
Yeah, hence why I started doing this whole quest in the first place
I wanna git gud at going fast
wanton plover
my old man eyes cant see tiny vermin model to dodge his lunge
pseudo girder
Therefore, I shall git gud at 32 heat
shy gulch
interesting pengy, i found the other way around to be more true
speedrunning helped me with high heat imo
just for me, that is
pseudo girder
It's a two-way street
shy plinth
My initial conclusion from the above conversation is that focusing on getting better at Hades makes you better at Hades
shy gulch
no way
pseudo girder
incredible
shy plinth
pseudo girder
shy gulch
yeah it really just varies from person to person ive found, like high heat actually didnt help me w speed too much but the other way around was very helpful
a bit interesting to think about
shy plinth
I have found that being in here and soaking in knowledge and watching a bunch of people play hades better than me has been enormously helpful
But also playing more because of that has been helpful
At first I was in here for like 2 weeks and said "yeah I can totally push 32s now as my normal heat" and then died repeatedly
But with enough focused and informed practice it was easy to see improvement quickly
shy gulch
i think what specifically helped me was that speed kinda forced me to learn the optimal damage combo for each aspect i was using, and how to use all of the aspect's innate qualities to do so
thats probably what was the actual help
true fable
yup
shy gulch
At first I was in here for like 2 weeks and said "yeah I can totally push 32s no...
lol mood
true fable
although i think theres some runs i wouldnt have been able to clutch, especially in RTA
without having done soem high heat
shy plinth
i think what specifically helped me was that speed kinda forced me to learn the ...
Yeah 100%
shy gulch
high heat helps me learn enemy attack patterns and finding openings to attack in, but i havent found that too useful for speed yet
i havent gotten inthose tight situations
true fable
now i feel like doing either makes me rusty for the other
shy gulch
i just unga bunga
shy plinth
Like people worry about speed when they should be worrying about damage
true fable
but before it helped
shy plinth
Damage = speed
And yeah it does seem like the biggest difference between any heat and speedrunning is how reactive you have to be
At a certain point in speedrunning you are playing DDR with spawn circles
But the enemy patterns are irrelevant
shy gulch
yeah enemy patterns are useful, but not super important all the time
shy plinth
It's helpful for knowing where you have to be to hit them hardest
shy gulch
some aspects you want to abuse enemy patterns to group them easier, like beowulf and such
tho
bright mango
High heat really made me more aware of my enemies when i wasnt doing that before with speedrunning
shy plinth
And at a certain point all high heat runners need to learn how to do at least speedrunning basics
Because TD3
solar maple
almost every weapon wants to group enemies to some extent
beo just happens to be very good at grouping enemies, and very good at exploiting them once grouped
unique zephyr
so I decided my motivation to learn FO2 is to avoid TD3 as long as possible
Being killed bc I was hit too much feels a lot better than being killed bc 5 sack
that and I'm not super fast lol
although I know some weapons don't like the high speed
I have trouble with FO2 wringers in tartarus
bright mango
5 sacks are really rare btw
shy plinth
I think under 10%
solemn pulsar
1-3%
shy plinth
It's more likely to lose to getting bad boon rolls than it is to getting bad sack rolls
unique zephyr
i guess it's just that going fast is really stressful for me then, which I can deal with
shy plinth
The sack roll is just more obvious
unique zephyr
yeah the timing out mid 5th chamber stands out more in my memories lol
unique zephyr
5 sack happened yesterday
shy plinth
First run I died in asphodel because I whiffed on parting shot and on greater recall
Second hera run immediately after was a clear
And also a 4 sack
unique zephyr
but I don't remember when it happened before that since I don't normally do TD3
shy plinth
I'm uploading it now lol
unique zephyr
ouch that sucks 😦
unique zephyr
But yeah I am not sure what to look for in my vods
I tried looking at my last one myself
and wasn't sure what to take from it or where I went wrong if that makes sense
should I compare to other peoples' vods
to see?
shy plinth
Man don't worry so much about td3
You're in your head about it
Until that stops happening it's not gonna ever be the right choice
You'll spend more time thinking about how much you hate td3 instead of thinking about how to beat the game
It's not a big deal, TD2 is fine
unique zephyr
You're right I worry too much lol
thanks for reminding me lol
i just thought it was necessary but glad it isn't
bright mango
Seriously tho without js or cp td3 ain’t bad
shy plinth
There is nothing wrong with playing the game the way that feels good to you
You'll get used to it over time but you don't need td3
Retrash doesn't even use it at 50
shy gulch
youll see ppl taking TD2 all the way up to 50 heat
shy gulch
its fine to do TD2
bright mango
Because retrash has em4 permanently on
bright mango
Ikr
unique zephyr
Wish I could reset my seed without killing myself on purpose
one of my only real gripes with the game
shy gulch
yeah i get why they didnt have a quick reset feature, but sometimes i really wish for it lol
unique zephyr
If I figure out how to do twitch would people mind if I stream 32 attempts or learning attempts so people can critique real time? And post them in self-promotion? I wonder how many people here would watch
bright mango
I probably would if i had time
Lmao i was trying to reset in a trial room and my vengeance boons killed everyone
midnight prairie
What do we think the easiest 32 heat for sword is? I feel like I could do it with Exalibur but I'd have to drop two DC and that seems really hard.
shy plinth
What's your pact at now
HL2 LC4 EM3 FO1 BP2 MM UC CF2 TD3 is what I did with Arthur
And has generally worked with every weapon
You could run HL5 instead if you don't want FO1
midnight prairie
LC1 CF2 JS1 EM3 BF2 MM UC FO2 DC2 AP1 TD2 is my default set up.
I actually meant to ask what people think the easiest aspect is but, easiest heat is also fine.
I'm not going to play with LC4 / Stubborn Defiance. I tried it many times and did not care for it.
bright mango
I’M DONE
shy plinth
FO2 is gonna be rough on Arthur
wintry berry
Arthur with FO2 is quite hard
bright mango
8:14 third tunnel
midnight prairie
I don't like AP but it's 2 heat. FO2 / DC2 are both probably horrible for Arthur for sure.
shy plinth
DC2 is a non-starter
FO2 is hard but DC2 is just straight up no way
You could push hard labor for sure, especially if you're not cranking up LC and keeping DDs
LC4+SD is a better deal but if you don't like it you don't like it
bright mango
This is a good arthur setup
shy plinth
Link does not work for me
bright mango
Yeah i saw that
Give me a sec
Oops
There we go
Deadly reversal is very good imo
shy plinth
It is yes
edgy arrow
that is a good setup, but they said they wanted to avoid LC4+SD
which would mean taking some less nice pacts
pseudo girder
you could swap some 2 LCs for FO1
edgy arrow
you could swap 3 actually
pseudo girder
Ah
pseudo girder
yeah, that's the main problem with that sort of strategy
bright mango
Yeah fo + arthur is bad
edgy arrow
it’s bad but not insurmountable
wintry berry
FO1 is still ok
edgy arrow
hate to say it but another option is AP1
edgy arrow
and HS is obviously easier on arthur, but you gotta watch out for dad’s urns ofc
wintry berry
AP1 hurts less on Arthur than on some other aspects
edgy arrow
yeah exactly
unique zephyr
You could run HL5 instead if you don't want FO1
What if I don’t want TD3
How should I modify pact? FO2?
shy plinth
HL5 probs
Which I think is the pact you've been running
You could do FO2, some weapons can handle DC2 JS1
midnight prairie
Maybe I'm too scared of HL in general.
shy plinth
At a certain point at high heat, you have to not get hit
The game gets less forgiving with every point, but so much of the pact can be mitigated with good play - the less you get hit, the less heat matters
I don't love the HL5 experience since I'm not great at consistently avoiding damage, but HL2+LC4+Stubborn has been forgiving enough to work without executing perfectly
bronze viper
How should I modify pact? FO2?
Yeah, one of your main goals should be to have FO2 permanently on.
It's very hard to construct pact sets without it
Though I have a FO0 40 Heat Arthur setup I did yesterday lol. The pacts are heinous though to compensate
edgy arrow
i spent a while trying to get through arthur 40 on FO0
then Peach told me to run FO2 and it was actually easier
bronze viper
I wouldn't recommend the pacts I used to anyone lmao
edgy arrow
yeah eventually FO2 is worth it even for arthur
idk exactly when that line is drawn tho
higher than 32
bronze viper
Actually, nvm, looking at it now, for some reason I thought I needed to use AP2. I didn't, I would actually recommend this to people lol https://imgur.com/a/OqblRG2
bronze viper
Yeah RI2 is an oof, but it's less of an oof than FO2 imo lol
I'm not great at Excal though, so I needed a crutch
edgy arrow
Dad was a nightmare on FO2 for me
i could do a whole 40 run and then just get absolutely smashed by him
bronze viper
Yeah bosses tend to be
I did EM3. I can't possibly imagine doing that with FO2 with my current skill with the aspect
edgy arrow
eventually i won by getting both athena DDs and just tanking through him lol
EM3 wasn’t so bad for me iirc
bronze viper
You can join @unique zephyr :3, he's been flirting with that for a while too. It is a very scary bandaid to rip off though
shy plinth
It'll be an adjustment for sure
bronze viper
Nothing quite as demoralizing as feeling hopelessness to your first round of Speeder FO2 Wavemakers lol
shy plinth
But with my current 32 pact only including fo1 now I can't imagine it'll be too crazy
I'll be able to drop all the hard labor and a CF
It might even be easier
unique zephyr
You can join <@!266732686838595606> :3, he's been flirting with that for a while...
I’ve been keeping it on all my runs. It’s painful but I want that 6 heat and I want to be better at dodging lol
bronze viper
Nice!
shy plinth
FO2 is very good at teaching you when you're good at dodging and when you're not
bronze viper
Yeah it's not easy, big big oof to EM3 and Dad, not to mention BP2 combos
bronze viper
Yeah FO2 really puts into perspective your mechanics with dodging Asterius lol
shy plinth
And will also break the habit of dashing into asterius during his jumps very quickly
bronze viper
I still do that. I see no problem
shy plinth
If you get the patty buff might as well make it do some work
bronze viper
Lmao, TFW you have 3 health with Patty buff at the end of chamber 33, but chamber 34 is a fountain.
"time to die"
shy plinth
This is why I was saying hazard bomb is OP in Tail's stream the other day
edgy arrow
to be fair, that’s still more health than if you didn’t have patty buff
shy plinth
Never have to worry about that
edgy arrow
80% vs. 60%
bronze viper
Yeah haha, holy cow Patty op
shy plinth
One of my runs earlier today had 2 touches from the well and patty buff active simultaneously
A death was a full heal
bronze viper
It's too late and no one campaigned for it during EA because no one formulated as clean of an adjustment as 40/40 for SD/Patty. We probably could have gotten that pushed into the game while they were making balance changes
edgy arrow
that would’ve been nice ngl
bronze viper
As of now Patty is the 2-sack that no one gets
edgy arrow
and also you need to get a 2 sack to get the most use out of him
that’s 2 2 sacks, and one of them no one gets
shy plinth
Also worth noting the difference between chamber 34 patty and chamber 28 patty or whatever
bronze viper
Yeah I've had some early patties but I don't know how early he can actually spawn. Later appears to be more common
But I don't get 34s as often either
edgy arrow
i swear i got him in chamber 2 or 3 of elysium once
shy gulch
i was just gonna start demeter attack but i have no clue
patty can spawn like chamber 28 or 29 earliest iirc
edgy arrow
oh really?
shy gulch
i believe so yes
edgy arrow
mustn’t have been paying attention
wouldn’t be the first time lol
i didn’t really have a build for GY 40; i just had arty on both attack and special and a bunch of poms in them
and charged skewer
that’s it that’s all you need
lusty mirage
I like athena start
lusty mirage
@shy gulch what pact? if AP0 can go ME build
lusty mirage
its powerful and safe
shy gulch
i just kinda threw a pact on, its like JS2 CP1 DC2 garbage
with TD2
im prob gonna change it
lusty mirage
avoid DC imo
shy gulch
yeah i kinda forgot i had it on
i usually hate DC, was just coming back from lucifer
then the issue becomes where do i get the heat from
i want to avoid TD3 and AP/RI, so i might just have to jack up the JS
edgy arrow
TD2 gives you a lot of room to jack up JS
shy gulch
thats true
i'll prob do something like JS3 CP1
also turn on HS which i didnt have before lol
the combo with GY is just special -> dash strike -> dash strike right
shy gulch
yeah true
lusty mirage
i did a podcast episode with Hat on Guan Yu if you want some listening material
unique zephyr
Bull miniboss might be harder
It is because smaller arena and no acorn yeah
lusty mirage
been watching Astaos grind against 50 heat GY a lot lately
solemn pulsar
29 is earliest patty, fountain, and shop
Expect to see patty 1 in every 3 to 4 runs through elysium
lusty mirage
hi cgull i'm perdable
solemn pulsar
i c what you did there
halcyon flame
i ought to try doing 32 heat gy at some point
bright mango
Its ezpz with charged skewer
halcyon flame
it actually looks fun but maybe as long as i can properly maintin distance with charged skewer maybe it won't be too bad
especially since i'll probably just go with heart rend
bright mango
40 was not easy because i was one shot to hades pretty much the second phase
But 32 is very doable imo
halcyon flame
it should work well with gy at least
bright mango
How tho?
halcyon flame
less damage taken overall
bright mango
Yeah i guess
halcyon flame
i mean what can i say, it's a free pass for getting hit
nornally not something i'd go for but gy feels too dangerous to go without protection
midnight prairie
Which cast do you think I should try and start for Aspect Posiedon 32 heat?
bronze viper
what do u suggest as a build for GY 40
I did this yesterday. The two easiest routes I found were taking Heartbreak Flourish for speculating Smoldering Air or Deadly Flourish because it's better
bronze viper
I'm bad though and I absolutely could not have finished that run without Smoldering Air lmao
bronze viper
Astaos was watching me. He said, and I quote, "If you manage to lose this run I'm unfollowing you"
bright mango
I still need to figure out how to apply it
bright mango
Astaos was watching me. He said, and I quote, "If you manage to lose this run I...
Lmao
Yeah my first attempt with charged skewer i threw the hades fight
The next one i got charged skewer again I almost threw it
I was shaking when i finished
bronze viper
I went into Hades with Smoldering Air + Athena's Aid, an extra DD, Patty, 200 health, and Charged Skewer lmao
bright mango
How do you not lose that
bronze viper
That's what I said. I'll find a way
bright mango
Lol
bronze viper
I didn't though, didn't end up losing the first SD because Smoldering Air is ridonk
bright mango
Smoldering air op
I think that’s how I’m going to cheese my 40 sword
I don’t feel like putting effort
bronze viper
I do Sea Storm Tidal Dash for those aspects
wanton plover
yea i did pos dash for zag sword lol
bright mango
I practiced with nemesis sword but I need double edge to win
Poseidon sword is wonky
bronze viper
I'm probably doing the Lightning Phalanx stuff with Poseidon, haven't purchased it yet though
bright mango
I have lvl 4 pos sword rn
wanton plover
poseidon is certainly my favorite sword
bronze viper
Spread Fire forcing time
bright mango
Rip
unique zephyr
time to rest, damn it I'd finish a second entire run if my muscles weren't tense
bright mango
For some reason if i play hades for 2 hours my fingers feel fine but if i practice music for an hour i gotta take a rest because they hurt
unique zephyr
This isn’t fingers this is my neck from sitting at a computer
unique zephyr
I got to second phase dad so I know I will get it if I try a little more
I am getting used to FO2
TD2 is so freeing
I can skip mid shops!
bronze viper
Yeah like I mentioned, it's not really a high heat thing. I don't consider TD3 until 50+
TD3 is very restrictive, and I hate starting the run with a fail rate no matter what I do
unique zephyr
I had enough time to fish without any fear 😛
I had so many minutes coming to dad
A 5 sack would have been fine time wise
wanton plover
fishing is good luck
bronze viper
Yep! There's something super zen about knowing if you show up and play well you wil lmake it
unique zephyr
It feels a lot better to lose when it’s my fault
bright mango
I like td3
unique zephyr
Entirely I mean
bright mango
A lot
unique zephyr
I don’t mind FO2 at 32 so far
bright mango
Yeah i don’t either but i don’t feel like it
unique zephyr
TD3 sucks compared to FO2 in my opinion
bronze viper
I have relative confidence I'm going to make this run but this is one of the least focused builds I've done lmao. Lightning Strike Zag rail with no poms or other Zeus boons, Hazard Bomb + Deadly Flourish with Tidal Dash
bright mango
Is it just me or does parting shot suck?
Like it gives cast backstab bonus 30% of your original backstab bonus
Like how is that useful?
dire steppe
no
bronze viper
Pretty sure it gives 30% more global backstab and your casts get all of your backstab
dire steppe
^
bronze viper
Oh Parting Shot what a beautiful tooltip
bright mango
But how?...
bronze viper
I'm impressed @bright mango, I've been around for a long time and even I hadn't seen that interpretation
dire steppe
50% base backstab dmg + 30% from parting shot
bright mango
So what does parting shot do for your casts?
dire steppe
it allows casts to backstab
without parting shot they can't backstab at all
it also gives you +30% additive backstab dmg for everything
so like a worse shadow presence
bright mango
Ok
shy plinth
It's weird with hera bow and some casts
Phalanx flare in particular
Feels like it backstabs more than it should
Also tried fo2 for two hours
Lernie is so much harder
shy plinth
It isn't
shy plinth
Except in very particular circumstances like hera bow phalanx flare
bronze viper
you know what aspect someone plays when everything is flare by default 
bright mango
Lernie is so much harder
Yes lernie sucks with fo2
shy plinth
And like I was doing a poseidon sword true shot run earlier and parting shot would have been good
Ahhhh beo is corrupting my brain
No it's just osmosis from this channel lol
bronze viper
#hades-high-heat-beo-and-rama-strategies
shy plinth
"also astaos is here sometimes"
bright mango
#hades-high-heat-beo-and-rama-strategies
So true
solar maple
Ill change my nickname once I clear 50 heat with any other aspect
bright mango
Lul
bronze viper
Lol, that's why I changed my name, found a second aspect
solar maple
I can do beo 50 heat meme runs but not hesta
bronze viper
Also someone pointed out in my chat that I'm way too excited when I'm playing Chiron to get an attack hammer and start playing a bad zag bow
solar maple
Lol
bright mango
Hestia bestia
short sedge
Hestia most certainly bestia
unique zephyr
Hestia is bestia but I want to 32 other weapons
Since I’ve only done 32 with Hestia
Going for 6 x 32, got close with Rama bow last run
true fable
somehow beowulf felt like my hardest clear
tbf chaos eris and lucifer were all probably better designed pacts
hestia was hestia
unique zephyr
So how does yarn of Ariadne and Eurydice nectar affect rarity exactly?
I’m not clear on that
bronze viper
@true fable Lol, I think the thing that tilts me about Spread Fire is that at least to my eyes the hit range seems slightly smaller than the edge of the particle effects
There were a lot of times that run where I would just be shooting air
true fable
i always stop in to say hi and then get donowalled
😦
but yeah i know exactly what you mean
bronze viper
Also I'm not really clear on how the mechanics work for stun locking things. I feel like I was def hitting Greatshields continuously but they managed to squeeze in attacks anyway and idk how that is
true fable
im used to unga bunga'ing with spread fire
bronze viper
Stun locking things with Spread Fire*
bronze viper
Donowalled?
bronze viper
😦 😦 😦 Sorry lol. Bf is in the room talking pretty loud with his friends online so I didn't have the stream interface stuff up.
bronze viper
Also I can't gift bouldy until I finish the aspect upgrades lol
Which is probs why I lost that run
true fable
bronze viper
K, time to force Lightning Rod on bad Eris lol
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/815464022669262868/unknown.png this AP2 luck 
dire steppe
:o
spring kettle
thunder dash best dash
true fable
BAD INFLUENCE 😮
north dove
"almost"
halcyon flame
better than ri
true fable
hm
i dont know how to make zeus shield clear TD3 on 50 heat
i think i need to play it more on anyheat
bronze viper
Pffft, joke's on you Dad, I couldn't possibly have played that run worse if I tried. Still got there. 40 zag rail done lmao. 7 resets to get Spread Fire and lost, then a terrible bad Eris Zeus Rocket Cluster build ftw. Time sleep 😴
true fable
it just
like i leave tart on 50 with 1 minute left
which is just not enough
im legit considering ruthless
bronze viper
Baj mentioned he liked Ruthless on Zeus, yeah
unique zephyr
Nice job, Retrash 🙂
halcyon flame
meanwhile i'm still here comtemplating whether i should do 24x32
edgy arrow
So how does yarn of Ariadne and Eurydice nectar affect rarity exactly?
they don't stack; you use them one at a time
so yarn of ariadne is like an extra use of refreshing nectar basically
that's actually a cool idea Hat
shy plinth
Yeah I was memeing but it actually sounds kinda rad
There are a lot of weapons you could do that with I think
Like chiron+special
edgy arrow
achilles with casts as well
shy plinth
Yeah all the cast weapons are easy
edgy arrow
poseidon and hera less so
they don't have good synergy with some casts
but you're right its still doable
shy plinth
I wonder if that could be a monthly challenge
edgy arrow
that sounds cool
idk if this would work, but i could imagine it being like the barrel roll thing
you "beat" other people by using different builds to them
so it starts out with normal stuff and then gets weirder and more meme focused as it goes
spark stream
to get to maximum 40 heat, you need to complete at least 40 runs, each higher by 1 effective heat than the previous?
spark stream
I just set up enough restrictions for 16 heat and only have one?
shy plinth
That's just for bounties
spark stream
what other purpose is there?
shy plinth
You can push it higher but the game runs you through 20 levels of rewards
So you can't turn up 1 heat at a time, clear the first fight, get bloods, then go back and do it again
You have to full clear at each reward level to unlock the next one to get more bloods+ambrosias
If you just wanna do it to do 40 heat you can do that right away
shy plinth
Oh so yeah 1 at a time is a good idea anyway
spark stream
I have 5 right now that I don't know what to do with
shy plinth
Start leveling weapons or unlocking them based on your preference
spark stream
so start at +1 point, and keep increasing by 1, trying to clear the game each time?
shy plinth
I took a pretty slow route of going up 1 heat at a time on each weapon just to build up a knowledge base
Some people focus more on one weapon
halcyon flame
early on you might wanna do 1 heat at a time to easy into it
eventually 1 heat at a time is either not an option or too boring
halcyon flame
not an option in that the pacts simply get too hard or literally none of your other choices are +1
shy plinth
And after you earn 20 heat's worth of bounties per weapon you don't get more bounties for it
Not that it's usually a limiting factor, if you focus your prophecies you get bloods pretty quick
unique zephyr
Got killed by furies twice in a row in 32 heat now (Tis and Alecto) 😦
gonna try again
Maybe I should level up Antos and try it
unique zephyr
they don't stack; you use them one at a time
I mean, what are the percentages of the rarity increases for each?
edgy arrow
oh i don't actually know the specifics
it's a hefty bonus tho
they both give a +10% chance for duos and legendaries as well
unique zephyr
Is explosive shot straight up a bad hammer on Rama? I tried it after not having seen it in a long time and charge time felt long
or do I just need to get used to it/not full charge
Still need to get used to not getting hit with FO2
But I’ll keep at it
I’ve only started getting the lines about losing a lot of HP after turning on FO2, lol
unique zephyr
Thanks for the encouragement, died to furies twice in a row
How well does Rama handle DC? I may swap some hard labor for DC
I do zeus special
austere gorge
very well - use the special
unique zephyr
Ah ok I use it a lot, good to know
Also does Poseidon sword handle FO2 the best of the swords
And what cast is good with Pos sword
I want to do 6 x 32
I’ll keep at it, I’m glad I’m not the only one who has been there lol
Where I’m learning how to get good enough at high heat lol
FO2 feels way more doable than TD3 for me right now
austere gorge
unsure about poseidon sword being the best at handling FO2, but i think FO2 is manageable for any of the sword aspects with some practice
unique zephyr
I see. It’s 6 heat so I’m invested in learning it
And at least there is no rng attached to it
Just gotta dodge
And even Arthur?
austere gorge
i did FO2 arthur for my 32 heat clear
mossy zinc
@unique zephyr @edgy arrow Yarn of Ariadne and Refreshing Nectar stack.
edgy arrow
i swear someone explicitly told me they didn't
i haven't had both at once in a while so i could be wrong
mossy zinc
You'll use up both on the next boon. If you have multiple Yarns of Ariadne, you'll only use one for each next boon.
edgy arrow
okay sure
that's not what i've heard other people say but it my experience it doesn't come up that much anyway
halcyon flame
i swear someone explicitly told me they didn't
they definitely do
edgy arrow
getting flashbacks to dodge% rn
i'll try and get a clip of this interaction at some point, just for my own satisfaction
mossy zinc
Well, Dodge chance is different because it's not as easy to tell and no one bothered to test it. I've had Yarn + Refreshing Nectar plenty of times.
edgy arrow
you seem confident, so i'll take your word for it
mossy zinc
I specifically remember the first time I bought a Yarn of Ariadne when I had Refreshing Nectar, hoping I would get higher rarity on the 4 next boons, and they were both used up on the next one.
edgy arrow
good to know
if you specifically remember it that's good enough for me, but i'll still try to force this situation and clip it the next chance i get, just to put a stop to any future confusion
man i've still gotta prove that the extra backstab damage from parting shot applies to non casts as well
i'm getting a back log
solar maple
cgull is claiming in the speedrun discord that they don't stack
I don't know what to believe
stiff aurora
They do different things, so they should stack, right?
halcyon flame
i got yarn + nectar in asphodel not too long ago and yes they do stack
honest kernel
Is explosive shot straight up a bad hammer on Rama? I tried it after not having ...
its ok but you need to shotgun stuff more
solar maple
it's a very weird hammer
some people like it, some people hate it
you can't really power shot very much with it
honest kernel
yeah its gonna turn into a different playstyle
dire steppe
You'll use up both on the next boon. If you have multiple Yarns of Ariadne, you'...
I don’t think this is true from my memory
Because I’ve had both while fishing for chaos legendary
dire steppe
And i think i remember being annoyed that it only used one
shy plinth
Right as rigged shows up
dire steppe
Maybe i had 2 yarns instead
edgy arrow
welp looks like i'm wasting my evening conclusively proving this one way or the other
here we go
halcyon flame
shy plinth
Taking authority to reroll asphodel?
solar maple
you can't reroll into story room
shy plinth
Oh boo
solar maple
I'm pretty sure
shy plinth
I thought it was like the other gold laurels
solar maple
story/shop can't be rolled into/out of iirc
edgy arrow
guess we'll see lol
i'm gonna test parting shot at the same time so hopefully i shouldn't waste too many runs
gaunt fiber
what do u suggest as a build for GY 40
Owl pendant start for safety. Get the dash or the flourish. You can get an easy win with charged skewer. Then you can go for ME, Deadly Reversal, that kind of stuff. Usually I build around the first hammer.
honest kernel
practicing fo2 on 40
it ended up being really easy with this build actually
I even forgot to fix my mirror
oh what the heck, I recorded it but the recording is all messed up
I think as soon as I changed the display settings obs just gave up
solar maple
it's possible that obs didn't recognize it as the same window after you change the resolution?
honest kernel
maybe I'll pay attention to it next time I record hades
spice lava
When you change your settings, always check OBS, because on that case the size change would have reduced the window of the game
My question is why changing the settings during your recording?
honest kernel
the game doesnt let me alt tab and I had to fix the audio 😅
spice lava
checking OBS frequently is a good habit
That's how I killed a record for a 50 Heat clear
vital grove
Record with your phone 🤔
honest kernel
big brain
edgy arrow
okay i just spent a few hours mostly doing meme runs, but i did get a get some footage
firstly, yes parting shot does grant global backstab:
secondly, the Yarn of Ariadne plus Refreshing Nectar interaction is not consistent
after a bunch of tries i managed to get 3 recorded interactions:
in the first two, i had 2 Yarn of Ariadne and 3 uses of Refreshing Nectar, and both times 1 use of Yarn of Ariadne was used and Refreshing Nectar was untouched
in the third, however, i had 1 Yarn of Ariadne and 3 uses of Refreshing Nectar and both the Yarn and a use of Refreshing Nectar was consumed. this was in a chaos gate while the other two were regular boons. idk if that's relevant or not.
I see 3 possible conclusions:
- Chaos gates don't work the same as regular boons for some reason
- You'll consume a use of Nectar only if you're using your last Yarn
- This interaction is inconsistent and cannot be predicted
basically; results are inconclusive
It took me a surprisingly long time to get even this lol, so atm i couldn't be bothered deliberately resetting a bunch for more data. That said, if anyone notices this working one way or the other i'd be interested in knowing what the circumstances were, in case there is some way of predicting this.
waxen relic
I think another way could be that it goes through your items from the bottom to the top, stops after a yarn, but not after a nectar. Meaning the order of getting the items matter.
Maybe post it in speedtech or report it as a bug?
edgy arrow
true that’s another possibility
yeah might be a good idea to report it; i’ll do that next time i’m in the game
not sure this is directly speedtech related, but i can chuck it there if you think folks would be interested
waxen relic
There's been less useful stuff in there. This is actually interesting if you want to force a duo I think. I'm far away from speedrunning though. And from what I've seen there's a good chance someone will look into the code then.
edgy arrow
fair enough, i’ll put it in there then
it’s such a weird niche interaction but now i’m invested lol
oh nvm i can’t post in that channel
prolly role locked
waxen relic
It is. I don't have the speed runner role either 
gaunt fiber
Want me to post something?
gaunt fiber
Ok
bronze viper
firstly, yes parting shot *does* grant global backstab:
In the year 2023: We finally understand Parting Shot
edgy arrow
waiting on my nobel prize for this discovery tbh
neat sonnet
man, I've just cleared heroes at 32 going over time on td3. I'm probably boned, but I'm still gonna try
bronze viper
5 minutes is very possible in Styx, you got this
edgy arrow
i believe in the 2 sack
neat sonnet
3 sack
just grabbed it
2:40 on the clock
I'm shaking
this is my 2nd 32 attempt
I have 2 dds (cause I forgot to switch but I'm lucky)
pray for me
gaunt fiber
You got this
neat sonnet
dammmmmit
last phase musta been below 50%
but I got hit with a spin and ran out of time
then he lasered and I panicked
wow
that was a rollercoaster
GY so good
I didn't even have charged
heart rend quick spin crits got me that far
neat sonnet
but like.. that felt amazing mechanics-wise I played out of my mind (relatively)
I was using zeus call + billowing strength, I feel like I actually understood how I was supposed to play
bright mango
*In the year 2023: We finally understand Parting Shot*
F i n a l l y
So even without shadow presence casts would get +30 % backstab bonus?
And with shadow presence casts would have +80% backstab bonus as well as every other move!
unique zephyr
If I use antos then besides furies do I mostly use antos at the same spots I would use Meg?
I’m seriously considering using antos because furies are actually hard with FO and HL now
gaunt fiber
Not really
You don't want to Antos witches
But it's good for barge if you lack damage and for the power couple
bright mango
Astaos are going to switch to meg now that you can get past the furies consistently?
bright mango
Yeah
gaunt fiber
yep
gaunt fiber
Yes
gaunt fiber
I've never seen it and since the damage is instant I don't see an enemy moving toward another circle
Meg is good because 2k5 is strong as an aoe and you can aim
bright mango
Yeah
gaunt fiber
I do not understand completely Antos
But I know when it's gonna fail
I love when Patty hits an armored soul against the butterfly ball
"Alright, stripped the armor, see ya"
austere gorge
-i'm helping!-
bright mango
Lol
pseudo girder
Battie and Mort are probably the most consistent Companions
...Moreso Battie for the quicker activation
dire steppe
mort consistent? lol
pseudo girder
Oh, definitely. Especially on larger rooms and FO
But for smaller rooms it's pretty good
halcyon flame
knowing how parting shot works is like knowing how jojo stands work
pseudo girder
bruh, jojo stands aren't complicated.
there's only like
several exceptions to the basic rules which mean the rules in and of themselves mean nothing and you're basically left saying "it just works" by the end of it all
🙃
anyways I have been recording my spear runs as of late
still no dice on that 32 heat achilles spear
i got hunting blades a grand total of one time and then never again
neat sonnet
neato
pseudo girder
Had a Heart Rend Achilles build
Keyword
Had
🙃
...I'm starting to think I shouldn't run Achilles if my runs with it are going so absolutely terribly
neat sonnet
just go GY, I got to hades phase 2 on my second attempt 🙃
pseudo girder
Welp, goodbye half my health, I'm going to go through GY hell.
Because quite honestly I need a significantly different approach by this point.
The run was perfect, too. Up until the damn Hades fight
Arti Attack, Aphro Special, managed to get the Athena DD glitch in Elysium, got Patroclus
dire steppe
em4?
pseudo girder
No.
Em3 FO2
Why would I, or anyone for that matter, go for EM4 outside of extremely high heat or just to see how EM4 is?
What's the pact setup for GY? Def no FO
32 heat
neat sonnet
I have it copied one sec
creds to nyaanyaa
Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
Eternal Rose > Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn
gaunt fiber
A pact without FO2 is a coward one.
neat sonnet
a pact without fo2 died to asterius 800% less
gaunt fiber
so where's the thrill? 
neat sonnet
I will let you know when I have ascended and am trying 40
neat sonnet
I'm sure, but I'm kinda confident I can snag 32 at FO0 after that last run
I oughta have time for a couple more later
pseudo girder
A pact without FO2 is a coward one.
A pact without FO2 is one where Dad doesn't spin at you from across the map as you keep poking at him with Serrated Edge attacks
gaunt fiber
Serrated :)
pseudo girder
YES
halcyon flame
if fo is such a problem just use chill smhsmh
pseudo girder
BECAUSE EVERY TIME I GET THE TARTARUS HAMMER IT'S EITHER THAT OR THE SPIN HAMMERS
neat sonnet
well
pseudo girder
I NEVER GOT FLURRY ON TARTARUS
neat sonnet
quick spin is great on GY
everything you know from the others is fundamentally changed
unique zephyr
A pact without FO2 is one where Dad doesn't spin at you from across the map as y...
On the other hand if you don’t have TD3 you never have to worry about sack rng
You can play perfectly but you’ll always have dread during styx
pseudo girder
I'd much rather deal with sack rng than Hades spinning at me from across the map and I'm screwed over because of course SSG had to nerf the dash range with Serrated Edge, why not?!
unique zephyr
Dying bc I’m hit feels better than dying because I got 4 or 5 sack
pseudo girder
Gonna be real: I can't remember the last time I got a 4sack or a 5sack
unique zephyr
I think TD2 and FO1 could work as a modification to nyan’s pact
I am learning FO2 to prepare for 40 and also to learn to dodge better
But if not I’d probably do TD2 and FO1
I got 5 sack yesterday lol
Died in the 5th chamber to timer lol
I do need to work on speed in general but still
I will have to learn TD3 eventually though
Also I feel like TD3 forces me to take mid shops even when the other room is way better for me (usually bc no gold)
sullen minnow
I can speak 2 things from personal experience. 1: TD3 isn’t, and never will be particularly fun but 2: as you play with it more and more, you come to learn that the shop/free room rule isnt totally absolute (esp with FO2) and you will develop a game-sense of when you can and can’t spare some time to go after a shiny bauble of a trial room that might really help your run out
Basically you come to keep a semi-running count in your head of “free” rooms that you have and haven’t taken so far, and how that figures into the justification of time you need to make to do an off-track excursion
neat sonnet
I got 3 sacked and probably could have killed dad even as timer was running out if I didn't get spun on 3 times or something ridiculous
unique zephyr
I can speak 2 things from personal experience. 1: TD3 isn’t, and never will be p...
I’m curious, how does FO2 change the free rooms rule?
sullen minnow
It effectively “overclocks” the game, buying you precious seconds back
It’s not God, but it’s something
dire steppe
it lets enemies spawni n faster
dire steppe
the spawn animation is really long
shy plinth
Also 5 sacks happen
It's more overt that it costs you the game on TD3 but it's still enough to kill runs without it
bright mango
Speedy wavemakers at fo2
pseudo girder
When any enemy gets Speedy at FO2
sullen minnow
Get back here for fff god DAMN IT I SAID GET BACK HERE
sullen minnow
that too is not fun
But I hate how FO2 can make asphodel into such a goose chase sometimes
bright mango
Like the bug thing guys with fo2 and speedy perk
sullen minnow
Despise it on fists
austere gorge
bruh when the super fast armor numbskulls get the speedy i get really tempted to reset
neat sonnet
I am back to styx
austere gorge
there's like 100 of them
sullen minnow
laughs in Zeus/Zeus shield
bright mango
I am back to styx
Pog
neat sonnet
this time with charged skewer and a minute 57 on the clock
I have a good feeling
focus time
bright mango
Poggers
shy plinth
Let's get it
gaunt fiber
Congrats!
shy plinth
Grats!
bright mango
Poseidon 40?
bronze viper
Yeah
bright mango
I tried that and kept dying to lernie
bronze viper
I'm fairly sure I'm dying to Stygius but yeah most things are about equally likely to kill me
bright mango
I still don’t know how I’m going to do 40 sword
edgy arrow
dying to stygius is a mood
bright mango
I tried it and then have gotten so sidetracked
edgy arrow
idk if poseidon really counts as stygius tho
bright mango
With boneless stuff
gaunt fiber
I can't do Poseidon :\
Electric shot buddy
I watched you
You tried to play sword there lies your mistake
edgy arrow
fiery presence does not increase cast damage
true fable
I'm on attempt... some number
this happened when i ran it because for some reason i hard forced flood shot
vital grove
Oh no 😢
true fable
yup
vital grove
The fact it deflects things
true fable
tbh its just
really happy to see most gods in tartarus
like poseidon/arty/zeus/aphro/dem all good
even ares can be ok
only god you dont care for is dio
vital grove
I like demeter on cast builds because that snow burst
true fable
yup
spring kettle
I like demeter on cast builds because crystal beam
solar maple
snow burst good
shy plinth
Snow burst so good
unique zephyr
I got to dad second phase on 32 Rama I know I’m almost there
Switching TD3 for TD2 and making it up with FO has been great for me personally
I’m using FO2 now and all future runs to learn the muscle memory
neat sonnet
aight I've slapped on FO2 where does my last 2 heat come from to get to 40
sullen minnow
It’s like a massage bacchus. It hurts but it helps
unique zephyr
Current pact?