#h1-high-heat-strategies | Supergiant Games | Page 261

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:31 AM

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it doesn't help tho

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:31 AM

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Sure

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:31 AM

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its mostly a combination of things yeah

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:31 AM

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UC is impactful though

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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Lol, dying to EM1 furies because of assists does feel quite bad

unique zephyr Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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I turn off UC in practice runs

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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It's a pretty generous two heat either way

unique zephyr Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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And CF

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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with CF0 and dark foresight UC is shockingly unimpactful

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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Listen sometimes I want to see winter harvest

unique zephyr Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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I’m learning FO2 with BP2, EM3, and MM

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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If I have UC on there is no chance of seeing winter harvest

unique zephyr Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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To learn the patterns without changing play too much

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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Because you have to ask yourself am I really keeping this killing freeze

unique zephyr Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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Then add the rest on for 32

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:32 AM

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killing freeze good

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:33 AM

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They're good boons!

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:33 AM

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I feel like every time I have winter harvest something really wrong happened that run.

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:33 AM

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But if attack special and a demeter t2 come up

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Are you spending a roll?

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:33 AM

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i haven't seen winter harvest in about 6 months probably

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its been a long time

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:33 AM

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I'm sayin

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If you turn off UC it's technically in the game

unique zephyr Feb 25, 2021, 6:33 AM

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Some pacts punish mistakes more like HL and some fundamentally change play like UC

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And CF

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:33 AM

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I saw it twice since I started playing again, once for prophecy and twice because I convinced myself for a bit that Arctic Blast Chiron was a thing

unique zephyr Feb 25, 2021, 6:34 AM

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Is god’s legacy ever worth it on high heat

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Or always god’s pride

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:34 AM

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If you want to get a duo, sure it's very worth

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:35 AM

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Legacy is worth it if you're on beo

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:35 AM

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Though I would say with how Zeus boons scale that Pride is just always better even considering how OP Splitting Bolt is

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:35 AM

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legacy is worth it for a lot of aspects

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until you're running stuff that messes with duo hunting a lot

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:35 AM

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Yeah like if you're going for a merciful end build there's a lot of value in legacy

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I think the real no-no is running either RI1 or AP1 with legacy

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At that point you gotta let the dreams go

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:36 AM

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bronze viper Though I would say with how Zeus boons scale that Pride is just always better ev...

but how will i get sea storm rama

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:36 AM

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"A lot of value" means that you get to play Merciful End sometimes :3

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:36 AM

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That is valuable

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:36 AM

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Pengy lost the record because they ran God's Pride just sayin'

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:36 AM

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Omg you're 100% right, I forgot to turn on Legacy for my meme runs smh

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:37 AM

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wow rookie mistake

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how do you expect to even get huge catch smh

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:37 AM

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I mean it's also 100% a mistake but memes

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:38 AM

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Ran legacy on my beo clear yesterday and got the hot calc risk goin

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Gotta calculate those risks

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:39 AM

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This was the hate crime I did yesterday:

https://imgur.com/a/09RPd91

Imgur

Beowulf-less

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:39 AM

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Oh I saw that

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Rerolling the flood flare for common tempest flourish was inspired

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:39 AM

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it hurts less if i pretend its gilgamesh

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this is the lengths i'm forced to go to to cope

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:40 AM

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In all honesty I hadn't played the aspect before and I had no idea how to optimize the cast loop so I didn't want to have to bother with it, so I rerolled out of fear lmao

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And I just kept doing that

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:41 AM

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lol

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:41 AM

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I admire the force with which you pounded the square peg into the round hole

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:41 AM

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nah honestly its pretty fair

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playing cast beo is a bit of a unique playstyle, and just focusing down on the special is probably a lot easier for someone with good fundamentals who isn't familiar with the weapon

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if you can get charged flight anyway

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:41 AM

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Yeah that's what tyler said when I asked him

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Using the special is a hades weapon

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Beo is not

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:42 AM

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memes aside, you got it first try so you obviously did something right

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:42 AM

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Yeah that's why I transitioned to also only using the special to apply Razor Shoals lmao

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"Something right" is getting like every boon under the sun, and like 30+ razor shoals damage lmao

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:43 AM

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in the end you've basically got a dash build lol

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well, not basically

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that's very a dash build

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:44 AM

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Aww man there's a huge missed opportunity with that build tho

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PRIVILEGED STATUS

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:44 AM

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lmao

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:44 AM

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smh

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:44 AM

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i was so bad i didn't run PS when i did seastorm rama

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:45 AM

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The missed opportunity was probably nerfing half of those pretty Epic boons to common to up my chance of completing the Sea Storm ritual

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:45 AM

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i could've posted in victory boasting with "ez privileged status"

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even tho it wasn't easy at all and in fact i only got jolted and shoals in styx

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:46 AM

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You had to work for your status

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Middle class rise up

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:46 AM

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idk if seastorm rama is middle class

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its got big eccentric billionaire energy

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:46 AM

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Bezos class

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:47 AM

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Sea storm rama is pure musk

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 6:47 AM

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bezowulf class

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 6:48 AM

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That was hilarious so I'm going to bed

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 6:48 AM

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ok goodnight hat

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 6:48 AM

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Yeah that's a pretty good stopping point for me as well

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Night!

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 6:49 AM

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lmao

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night ya'll

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 6:49 AM

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ok goodnight ledge also

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residentzag

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 7:18 AM

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https://gyazo.com/c2c1c6289afed3384502cd451d5a2da3 oops

Gyazo

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Was a 3-sack

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 7:19 AM

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61 wowzawoo

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 7:20 AM

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oof

solar maple Feb 25, 2021, 7:20 AM

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value hydralite there

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3 sack 😦

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 7:30 AM

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do hermes atk/special boons nullify shackle

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 7:31 AM

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they don't

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its only boons that fill the attack/special/cast slots on the left side of your screen

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 7:31 AM

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thank u

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 7:31 AM

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np

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 7:34 AM

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https://gyazo.com/0371f63dd243a0c5bccd56e0e9b9ba4f More cursed stuff

Gyazo

solar maple Feb 25, 2021, 7:43 AM

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2% ambiguity and no 2 sack? bouldy lied

austere gorge Feb 25, 2021, 8:24 AM

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any ideas for which shield aspects would be good for 40 heat?

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i'm thinking chaos, but is Zeus more popular at high heat?

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 8:26 AM

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they all work. zoos is notoriously hard to use though

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 8:43 AM

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Yeah they all work, zeus is hard, zag shield is prob the less popular, and there are a lot of beowulf specialists here

gaunt fiber Feb 25, 2021, 9:07 AM

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honest kernel https://gyazo.com/0371f63dd243a0c5bccd56e0e9b9ba4f More cursed stuff

Mr. Baj you have to get a Zeus boon at some point

hardy linden Feb 25, 2021, 9:28 AM

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baj did you win the run

vital grove Feb 25, 2021, 9:47 AM

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Game too easy

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AP needs to cross out item lists and special room options.

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Let me get in touch with Amir

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 9:48 AM

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retrash makes em4 look so easy

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 12:52 PM

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vital grove Let me get in touch with Amir

So I know where my avatar of chaos comes from, but who’s this?

vital grove Feb 25, 2021, 1:10 PM

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Amir?

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Amir Rao is one of the people who designed Hades.

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 1:13 PM

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austere gorge any ideas for which shield aspects would be good for 40 heat?

I would go beowulf

vital grove Feb 25, 2021, 1:13 PM

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Zeus shield pretty strong

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 1:15 PM

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Only if you know how to use it

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 1:22 PM

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vital grove Amir Rao is one of the people who designed Hades.

Ahhhhh that Amir, gotcha

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Lol

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We need to invent AP3 to shed our mortal chakras and truly commune with The Super Giant

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 1:23 PM

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AP3 would be op

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makes boonless too easy pls nerf

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 1:31 PM

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AP3 please Amir

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 1:39 PM

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AP3 but make it give 5 heat so we can have 69 heat

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 1:40 PM

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perfect

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 1:41 PM

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nice

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 2:09 PM

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watch them make it 4 or 6 heat instead

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 2:11 PM

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then we can finally turn off hs if it was 6

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 2:13 PM

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AP3 when SGG??????

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 2:28 PM

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I'm hoping for lc5 myself

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Any damage you take causes you to lose health in your next run

vital grove Feb 25, 2021, 2:29 PM

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Your max health drops each time you revive

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 2:29 PM

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healing sources actually damage you

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so the fountain chambers can actually kill you

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...ironically enough this would make fountain chambers more useful at high heat

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 2:31 PM

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lol yes

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In some cases

vital grove Feb 25, 2021, 2:34 PM

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Ri5

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Randomly lose attack, special, cast or dash for the run

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 2:36 PM

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AP4: The aspect changes randomly at every biome

tropic stream Feb 25, 2021, 2:37 PM

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EM5: charon is now a required boss

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 2:38 PM

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Would be worth it if you win a card that negates Convenience Fee

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 2:40 PM

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CF3: you must fight charon for every purchase you make

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obols are now exclusively hoarding slash fodder

tropic stream Feb 25, 2021, 2:41 PM

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MM2: every single room now has a miniboss

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 2:41 PM

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that might actually become somewhat faster

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compared to some rooms

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 2:41 PM

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TD4 : Welcome to Tartarus timeout city

tropic stream Feb 25, 2021, 2:41 PM

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i mean faster maybe

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but survivable?

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 2:42 PM

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td4: you will time out room 1

tropic stream Feb 25, 2021, 2:42 PM

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HS2: traps instantly kill you

solemn pulsar Feb 25, 2021, 2:42 PM

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just add TD∞, where you start losing health from room 1

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haelian did a run like that, was amusing

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 2:42 PM

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did you mean: HS1 + HL5

tropic stream Feb 25, 2021, 2:42 PM

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300 damage pots

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😳

solemn pulsar Feb 25, 2021, 2:42 PM

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HL doesn't impact trap damage

tropic stream Feb 25, 2021, 2:43 PM

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instakill pots

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 2:48 PM

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tropic stream instakill pots

But that's already the case

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bouldy

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 2:49 PM

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TD4 is fine if you have like 50% chances to meet thanatos or having free rooms/shops

tropic stream Feb 25, 2021, 2:49 PM

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td4 free rooms do not exist

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shops don't exist

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 2:49 PM

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TD4: Always a 5 sack

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Oh wait

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We already have that

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 2:50 PM

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dusa

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 2:51 PM

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What if one day we have a 1 sack with a secret dialogue like "What did I tell you about the patch?!"

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The real EM5 would be facing Hadesprof 🤔

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 2:55 PM

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EM5 is just Cerberus. He dies in 1 hit. Is it worth it?

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 2:55 PM

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em5 is petting cerberus 10 times or taking a guaranteed 5-sack

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TD is not paused petting cerberus

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 2:56 PM

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Petting Cerberus while fighting Hades

neat sonnet Feb 25, 2021, 2:56 PM

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when em4 summons cerberus you have to pet him to continue the fight

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hades does not appreciate you getting distracted

solemn pulsar Feb 25, 2021, 3:02 PM

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if you can frame perfectly hit the pet button when cerberus first appears in EM4 (on the FIRST frame) then he'll team up with you for the rest of the battle

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:02 PM

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Supergiant we are giving you free ideas

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take them

solemn pulsar Feb 25, 2021, 3:02 PM

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my uncle works at SGG and he told me

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:04 PM

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my dad owns microsoft

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:05 PM

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tell him I said gday

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:05 PM

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nah he's too busy

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:05 PM

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oh sorry

wintry berry Feb 25, 2021, 3:12 PM

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I died at Hades phase 2 from a 150 dmg pot at 45 heat with Arthur and cursed slash. It would've been sword heat PB

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:12 PM

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Is there like a consistent way to dodge asterius charge at FO2?

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@daring hedge @north dove @honest kernel ?

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 3:13 PM

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stay near the pillars

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when he runs towards you dash behind them

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:13 PM

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Baj will prolly just tell you to use a shield lol

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 3:13 PM

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otherwise you're screwed

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:13 PM

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that’s pretty consistent

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:14 PM

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"Play beo"

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:14 PM

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Hyper sprint gives you a fighting chance at outpacing his sprint on the ground

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So at least you can maneuver

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 3:14 PM

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^

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:14 PM

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Also my answer with way less experience that the people you tagged is "lol no"

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:14 PM

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shy plinth "Play beo"

hey it’s my catch phrase

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:14 PM

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rain sedge Is there like a consistent way to dodge asterius charge at FO2?

Astaos told me to hug a wall and either he crashes into a pillar or into the wall

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works like 60% of the time

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Its worked for me

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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rain sedge Is there like a consistent way to dodge asterius charge at FO2?

Stay near walls, and be ready to sidestep him

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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I'm a rail boi

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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honest kernel Stay near walls, and be ready to sidestep him

does the direction you face matter?

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I tried doing this but it doesnt seem consistent

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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Don't think so

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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or the direction you dodge when he charges?

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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Its the most consistent strat

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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^

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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is sidestepping more consistent than dashing through him?

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:15 PM

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yes

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For me yeah

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:16 PM

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If you dash through him too early, he just does a donut and rams you

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:16 PM

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I've gotten so much better at fo2 heroes after using that strat

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:16 PM

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Since he'll miss the wall

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:16 PM

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sure

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but if you dash sideways too early the same thing happens

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:16 PM

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Either he crashes into a pillar or slams into a wall

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:16 PM

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idk maybe there’s more of a window

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:16 PM

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Or hits you for 70 damage

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:16 PM

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if Baj says it’s more consistent it probably is

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:17 PM

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it feels more consistent than everything else

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:17 PM

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Side-stepping makes it more likely you are in the range where the bull goes into a pillar

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Also means I am not approaching him while he charges me at lightspeed

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:17 PM

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fair

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:17 PM

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Reaction time has to be accounted for

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:17 PM

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i’ll try switch it up and see if i get better results

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:17 PM

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But the times it doesnt work are when he is next you and charges

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:18 PM

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And you don't want to be approaching the bull too much either

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:18 PM

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You dont have enough time to get to a wall

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:18 PM

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i can dash through him decently often, but i’m far from consistent

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:18 PM

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One mistimed movement at EM3 and you eat his spins

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:18 PM

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might be a better way

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ugh yeah spin bad

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:18 PM

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Lots of it is seeing what's the closest obstacle to you

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And get to it

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:18 PM

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almost half the time I get hit but its better than all the time

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with wall hugging

vital grove Feb 25, 2021, 3:18 PM

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Stand above pillar.

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Dash through pillar.

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Bull hits pillar chasing you.

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:19 PM

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bright mango almost half the time I get hit but its better than all the time

um this is not a good argument lol

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:19 PM

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sorry lol

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But its better than getting hit all the time

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:19 PM

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cool, thanks

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:19 PM

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the key word here was “consistent”

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:19 PM

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I'll try that baj

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:19 PM

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I don't mean to speak for Schad but I don't think the question was how does the bull rush mechanic work

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:19 PM

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Bull go zooom

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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hat can speak for me anytime

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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It honestly depends on your weapon

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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he's part of me after all now

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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D:

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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on Hestia, for instance, you are more likely to be near walls, since you'll want to keep your distance

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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🍽️ 🎩

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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The safest place I found is between a wall and a pillar, so many things to dash to

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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^^^

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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^

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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I have an answer that is kind of a meme but does work

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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between a wall and a pillar is a such an awkward place to hang out tho

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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Athena call lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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particularly if Theseus is still around

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:20 PM

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shy plinth Athena call lol

if you check out my 53 video this is exactly how I did it

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:21 PM

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Like that always works

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:21 PM

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you don’t even need athena call

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:21 PM

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But you have to have athena call on 53

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:21 PM

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This is obviously complicated by the fact that douchenozzle loves to shower the spaces between pillars and walls with his presents

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:21 PM

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just iframing the charge with any call works

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with good charge rng that can take you through the whole fight

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:21 PM

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astaos did that and he died 🙃

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:21 PM

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but you need good charge rng and a call

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:21 PM

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ok cool. I have some strats now

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:22 PM

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Oh also my go-to is "get hit and pop SD"

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:22 PM

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I'm lazy I always just save call charges and hug pillars on the inside ring

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:22 PM

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Feel free to give that a try

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:22 PM

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yeah honestly i usually forgot to use the iframes even when i have a call

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:22 PM

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That is definitely not the speedrun strat though lol, I should probably be using those offensively, but I am slow casul

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:22 PM

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but it’s cool when i remember/it works

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this isn’t a speedrunning channel lol

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we’re all slow casuals here

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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Trying to go through my non-shield runs to see how I handle the EM3 charge

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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except those of us that aren’t slow casuals

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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I only have a 45 Rama, and he doesn't charge me at all in that video lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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like Baj

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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Apparently shield doesnt block asterius spins

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im scammed

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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I like how even if I go into EM3 thinking "I'm going to spend the 5 charges on Asterius' charges so I can save time and DPS," my lizard brain sees the charge start and goes NONONONONO

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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Nothing blocks spins

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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bright mango Apparently shield doesnt block asterius spins

bull rush through them

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:23 PM

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Well that's not true

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Acorn blocks spins

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:24 PM

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You can block spins with the shield ???

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Just not for all the time

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Gotta bullrush at some point

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:24 PM

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I didn't know this

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Shield has a weakness?

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:24 PM

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yeah I normally dont have a problem with spins but I just wanted to try it out

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See if spins block it

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Ended up wasting my acorn

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:24 PM

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This, if you're an i-framer https://clips.twitch.tv/GentleTenderWaterPrimeMe-Nendh445c2X88YcP

Twitch

Akenais - Perfect athena dash

Watch Akenais's clip titled "Perfect athena dash"

▶ Play video

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:24 PM

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thats not em3

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But still yeah

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:25 PM

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EM3 is a little bit faster and more accurate with it's charge

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

It's also not FO2 lol, I thought Asterius was swimming through molasses

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

lmao

#

seriously tho

#

its so slow

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

asterius looks so weird on FO0

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

Francais!

#

I love LE MINOTAURE

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

Bonjour bonjour

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:25 PM

#

Well, it was from a casual player, so no EM3/FO2, sorry for the betrayal

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

Man I remember the first time I did EM3

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

Asterius so majestic in his macedonian gear

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

My wife had done it before me so I asked her if there were any new attacks

#

She said no

#

Then I died to spins

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

LOL

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

She said she forgot

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

lmao

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

10/10 perfect marraige

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

why would she lie lmao

wintry berry Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

top 10 anime betrayal

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:26 PM

#

She legitimately forgot

#

But if she had been lying instead it would have been funny

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

That's 10000% what I would have done too lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

what forgot?

#

or deliberately betray Hat

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

@edgy arrow What weapon/aspect do you play

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

how do you forgot beyblades

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

either way mood

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

honest kernel <@!309651131213152258> What weapon/aspect do you play

mostly beowulf

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

ohowky does beo

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

She's a dark souls player so she enjoys suffering, both in herself and others

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

Oh, I see.

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

This channel should be renamed to #hades-high-heat-mostly-beowulf

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

Honestly a lot of what I do with Zeus shield can apply to Beo

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

I don't know why there isn't a Hades tag and a Beo tag

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

When it comes to dealing with mino rush

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

Two different video games

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

shy plinth My wife had done it before me so I asked her if there were any new attacks

casual "I have a wife" flex

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

What about special Rama players then?

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

Yes I am old and married

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

it saddens me that I'll leave a widow when I eat you hat

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

She'll be fine

#

She has animal crossing

rain sedge Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

guilty meal

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

honest kernel When it comes to dealing with mino rush

wait do you just mean blocking it

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

spice lava What about special Rama players then?

all rama players are special

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:28 PM

#

been a while since i’ve watched one of your runs

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:29 PM

#

I was about to say, shield has 0 IQ win button against charge lmao

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:29 PM

#

It's not just blocking

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:29 PM

#

plink

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:29 PM

#

But the positionning, and timing bullrushes

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:29 PM

#

bull rushing through the charge?

#

does that stop it

#

i don’t even know off the top of my head

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:29 PM

#

Bull rushing kinda dope, it should stop the charge, yeah, it still blocks in that animation

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

Bullrushing effectively works as a dash with neat Invicibility frames

#

Not sure if it can stop the charge itself

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

Worth trying

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

yeah but dashing through the charge doesn’t stop it

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

For style

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

yeah exactly

#

true lol

#

it’s all about the shield aesthetic

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

only problem with beo is it takes too long to start bullrushing

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

^

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

By that time -70 damage

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:30 PM

#

dash as little as possible to own the rama mains

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

Wait what?

#

lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

you can block asterius rushes

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

I assumed people played shield because it has 3 dashes

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

Neat. Still risky because of angle shenanigans

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

Oh, I see what you meant now

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

depending on how far away he is when he starts

#

with beo that is

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:32 PM

#

My strategy with Rama is to charge the full shot, eat an acorn charge, and they lose a 10th of their health.

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

bronze viper My strategy with Rama is to charge the full shot, eat an acorn charge, and they ...

quick math seems legit. acorns have 10 charges, right?

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

Also lol idk if someone else has done non-EM3 Heroes on Rama recently but their new buddy cop animations make it sooooo easy to line up the most disgusting twin/triple shot multi-shotguns

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

actually that’s my strategy with rama as well

#

their buddy cop animations are great

#

i love than non EM fight so much now, when i play it (which is admittedly rarely)

#

it’s free damage

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

bright mango only problem with beo is it takes too long to start bullrushing

beo bull rush is basically a melee attack anyways.

...unless you get quick charge or Charge Shot

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

If I'm sub 40 on melee I turn EM3 off

bright mango Feb 25, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

yeah

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

Any specific reason for that?

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

Astewius scawy

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

Theseus

#

Theseus on chariot is annoying on melee

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

EM3 Theseus is hilarious

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

i’m with Baj; theseus is the real pain for melee

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

But yeah, real talk it's Asterius

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

you gotta chase him around

#

it’s so annoying

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

Theseus is nothing tbh

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

Gilgamesh is love against EM3 Asterius

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

I mean, at 40 heat, yeah, he's a pain in the arse

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

You have to chase Asterius too, his circles make it hard to do any meaningful DPS rotation, just a bunch of slow hit and runs and hope Theseus doesn't chip you to death

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

but still, can't be any worse than Asterius

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

pseudo girder Theseus is *nothing* tbh

try chasing him with malphon at FO2 with 15 seconds on the clock and tell me he’s nothing

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

And then there's the Demeter assist triggered

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

Demeter Theseus

pseudo girder Feb 25, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

funny

#

i did that

#

🙃

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

@edgy arrow I now see why I bullrush in my videos : I'm near a wall, and can time the bullrush to avoid both the charge and the leap

#

If you are close enough, you phase through Asterius and he slams into the wall

#

Not sure if it can apply as well to Beo

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:37 PM

#

Ah so it doesn't stop the charge though good to know

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:37 PM

#

Best part on 50heat is when you see the time left which makes you choose to take down Theseus first

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:37 PM

#

the timing’s are different on beo for sure

#

i’ll dig through some of your vids at some point and see what i can steal

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:37 PM

#

At lot of it is not really applicable

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:37 PM

#

I tried stealing stuff from Tailesque's Rama videos but the only thing I learned is that I'm really bad shadegrief

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:38 PM

#

Because apparently a lot of my success hinges on Sudden Rush lol

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:38 PM

#

"Oh, I see. So... if I get good, I can beat EM4. Noted."

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:38 PM

#

sudden rush good hammer

#

i’ve actually played too much beo and now sudden rush on other shields feels really slippery for me lmao

#

it goes too fast for my small beo player brain

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:39 PM

#

I'm very curious about beow now 👀

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:39 PM

#

you should play beo

#

it’s a great weapon for high heat maybe

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:39 PM

#

Tempest Flourish new meta

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:39 PM

#

no

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

https://gyazo.com/e1ef37c42310eb1feefb018cc8657296

Gyazo

▶ Play video

#

This is what it can end up looking like

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

Baj, do you KBM or controller?

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

KBM

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

f

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

at that point i’d probably just let him hit my shield

#

any reason you don’t?

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

I was going to ask for your advice about how to divine the distance Zeus shield goes lmao

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:41 PM

#

Countering a charge with... a charge 👀

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:41 PM

#

I've had Asterius hit me through the block at times because of weird angles. Also I work off of timing, since if he leaps, he can jump over me and hit me

#

And the leap can be a bit faster then the charge

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:41 PM

#

Tell me, is there any benefit of Hestia aspect on post20 heat

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:41 PM

#

It's one of the best high heat weapons

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:41 PM

#

the windup for the charge is different to the leap tho

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:41 PM

#

Big damage, big range

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Just don't turn on DC

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Seriously?

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

edgy arrow the windup for the charge is different to the leap tho

Sometimes he does the leap instantly

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Hestia S-tier

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

In phase 2

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Hestia Bestia

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

that’s true

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Wait actually??

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Hestia is great for up to 62 heat where it's everything but DC

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Yes, I know it's very hard to tell in this channel when we're being serious, but yes in this case

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

I always thought it was garbage

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

main wasp Wait actually??

150 base damage when maxed is a LOT. It also pairs well with Shackles. Or Artemis attack

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

If you check the 50 heat top times, it's Hestia or Rama

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

hestia is really good

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Hestia does d a m a g e

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

So it's not good because of the post reload shot but because of base damage?

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

it’s on my list of weapons that i’ve got no idea how to play but win with anyway because they’re that good

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

Hestia sacrifices Rama's ability to hit everything gud at the same time to hit 1 thing GUD

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

main wasp So it's not good because of the post reload shot but because of base damage?

The post reload shot is the base damage we're talking about

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

Yeah like at a certain heat level you just want big ranged damage

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

main wasp So it's not good because of the post reload shot but because of base damage?

the base damage of the post reload specifically

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

main wasp So it's not good because of the post reload shot but because of base damage?

You basically use the empowered shot 98% of the time

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

So it's like JUMP GOOD but with gun

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

It's a shotgun

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

Shoot, Reload, repeat

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

^

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

You also get a lot of opportunities to get free specials because of how often you reload

#

"Free"

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

You're basically playing a sniper rifle

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:43 PM

#

sometimes special maybe

#

idk how to play hestia lol

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

Special while reloading

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

You 1v1 everything with a 150 base damage at the beginning

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

Yeah

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

You can special at the same time you reload

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

honestly just shoot reload shoot can get you pretty far with hestia

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

^

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

If you're repositioning anyway there's no reason to not special after reloading before you dash cancel

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

You alternate between two things

#

Shoot button and every other button

#

Shoot, then DashSpecialReload

#

Repeat until clear

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:45 PM

#

Oh wait, I shoot -> reload -> special -> dash repeat

#

Is that wrong?

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:45 PM

#

Welp, I know what I'm gonna try today

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 3:45 PM

#

Hestia's biggest weakpoint is it's trouble against DC

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:45 PM

#

So you don't turn on DC

#

And can do about everything else

#

bouldy

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:45 PM

#

the hestia record is still DC0 iirc

#

just ignore that crap

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

What was DC again, I forgot my acronyms

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

Take RI4 over DC

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

damage control

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

Damage Control

quartz mantle Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

Damage Control

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

The blue heart shields

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

Ah

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

Cursed blue heart shields

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

Lol, even with DC1, normal fire -> reload takes a thousand years

#

May as well power shot with rama in that time

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

^

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

The main reason I love Rama is because the shot reminds me of a hadoken

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

I assume you also like Kinetic Launcher lol

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

^

dire steppe Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

hestia sucks on kbm imo

#

i always miss

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

Or a sonic boom

dire steppe Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

lol

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

I like it for that reason lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

okay tangent but i have a weird hestia opinion and i wanna know if i’m crazy

#

i think spread fire is kind good on it

#

like, okay at least

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

I mean it's not actively bad lol

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

The hiccup is that you're playing close range with Hestia

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

Worst case it should be basically neutral

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

edgy arrow i think spread fire is kind good on it

Bro I’m here with you

#

Spread fire actually does something with the rest of hestia’s mag

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

But it doesn't affect the empowered shot so ?

#

idk

dire steppe Feb 25, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

lightning strike hestia doe

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

it meshes really well with arty attack, and it’s useful every now and then for if you mess up your reloads or wanna finish off something with low health

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

Something that actually synergizes with the boons you keep on hestia

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

^

main wasp Feb 25, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

Also Hestia Bow is basically Guile

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

That'd be the main reason to have it ever

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

honest kernel But it doesn't affect the empowered shot so ?

It lets you finish off enemies that you’d ordinarily retreat and reload for

#

It’s a great little extra tap of burst damage if the empowered shot didn’t do the trick

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

I mean, there are a bunch of hammers I'd rather have

#

But it's not bad

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

I got a loooooot of mileage out of spread fire hestia

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

honest kernel I mean, there are a bunch of hammers I'd rather have

oh for sure

#

i just don’t think it’s bad

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

I like it cause it gives you a backup tool for cqc

#

You still shoot -> reload most of the time

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

Also relevant in Styx

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

I assume it's the same reason I like Explosive Shot on Chiron. The collective sigh of relief when I can kill Numbskulls without my combo

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

It’s just that the other 5 shots in your mag are now actually theoretically worth something

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

bronze viper I assume it's the same reason I like Explosive Shot on Chiron. The collective s...

this

#

that’s exactly it

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

Which I love for hestia because ordinarily there’s 11 useless rounds there

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

Useless until you hit savior enemies

#

bouldy

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

bouldy

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

And 'lil rats

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Fair

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

But yeah

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

you still mostly wanna reload every shot ofc

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Hestia is uninspired

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

ye

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

it’s just a semi useful backup tool

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Hestia should’ve been the trick gun from Gungeon

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Lol, I was grinding 51 Zag bow yesterday and I walked into a room and there were 4 Greatshields in a buddy corner with Savior. I did not leave that room

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

sullen minnow Hestia should’ve been the trick gun from Gungeon

no I don't want Hestia to suck lol

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

I assume Hestia has the same issue

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

One side is a single-shot power shot like it has now

#

The other side is that same power shot broken up over 5-6 shots with the same total base damage

#

No special rocket

#

That would be unique and fun as hell

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

That'd be neat honestly

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

hestia is fun and good

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

That’s what I’m saying

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

it doesn’t really need to be changed

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

They had a great idea for hestia

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

But the current Hestia's good too

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

But have you heard about our lord and savior Beowulf

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

But the rest of the execution is just uninspired

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

is it tho?

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

Yeah some of the hammer implementations on Hestia are kinda lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

hestia is a lot of people’s favourite weapon

spice lava Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

I hate Hestia, I started with it so switching to other aspects is horrible 😒

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

Oh, it’s still great

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

okay fair point about hammers

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

But I mourn and criticize hestia like I do gilga

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

A weapon doesn't need a billion mechanics or interactions to be interesting

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

You had such an inspired idea SGG, you simply didn’t carry it far enough

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

Hestia just induces a very clean flow state for me

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

putting hestia and gilga in the same box is... harsh

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

A gun focused around power shots is a great idea

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

You just do your thing and stuff dies and you go to the next room

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

Gilga is weird

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

That mechanic slapped on 1 round of your mag and nothing else changed is lazy, tbh

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

^

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

And not really cohesive

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 3:54 PM

#

do you reload special shoot or reload shoot reload special

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:54 PM

#

I love hestia to death, don’t get me wrong

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:54 PM

#

I don't like how every time I'm playing Gilgamesh it feels like the game is punishing me for wanting to push its buttons

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:54 PM

#

But they didn’t take the great idea they had far enough to create the beautiful unique something that they could have imo

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:54 PM

#

sullen minnow That mechanic slapped on 1 round of your mag and nothing else changed is lazy, t...

i feel like this is a fine opinion but also subjective

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:54 PM

#

"Oh you want to standing attack? Smack. Oh, you wanted to Maim, go home, you're drunk."

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:54 PM

#

wanton plover do you reload special shoot or reload shoot reload special

Shoot, Reload, Special while Reloading

#

That's the routine

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

yes i thought so

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

The riddle that bothers me is “why doesn’t hestia just have 1 round”

#

If hestia had only 1 shot nothing would change about the aspect fundamentally

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

i have a habit of reload special shoot bc of target system

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

bronze viper "Oh you want to standing attack? *Smack*. Oh, you wanted to Maim, go home, you...

have you seen Hadesprof’s gilga 50?

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

now i cant stop

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

I mean sometimes it's nice to have a rail

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

That’s why I say it’s a lazy design choice

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

that vid blew my mind

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

Savior BP and lil rats, 2. Titan Blood is a thing

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

Do you like dying to cloner skulls

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

Level 1 hestia is ... kinda sad

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

Lol, yeah at the end of the day a lot of it is subjective. There was that guy from #h1-builds-and-combat yesterday making an impassioned speech about why it's bad game design to have things have different timings across multiple abilities/aspects/hammers

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

And needs to be played akin to the base rail

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

You can take lightning strike and just play 12 round zag rail

#

And then reload and power shot as needed

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:56 PM

#

Yeah, and there’s nothing wrong with that

#

Nothing irks me more than what I think of as a great idea half done

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:56 PM

#

i guess what i’m saying is i think hestia is pretty neat, and i don’t think it having extra shots you don’t use takes anything away from that

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:56 PM

#

I don't agree with his opinions but he's entitled obviously to critique his own experience with the game

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:56 PM

#

I just think they could have gone further to differentiate the different aspects from the more base model

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:56 PM

#

Not sure, honestly, if you were meant to time your reloads, rather then spam them for every shot

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:56 PM

#

but i play beo which has an entire attack (special) you just ignore 90% of the time so maybe i’m biased

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:57 PM

#

But alas, the base damage difference dictates the later is better once the aspect's level 3+

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:58 PM

#

I respect yall and I know yall probably know better

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:58 PM

#

It either ends up being a bonus you don't care much about (level 1 or 2), or it warps up the gameplay entirely on it (level 3+)

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:58 PM

#

I just get high hopes for some of this stuff because I see so much potential and genius in the way SGG built this game

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:58 PM

#

I think Hestia from game feel difference to gameplay difference is one of the most distinct from its base aspect in the game

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:58 PM

#

That potential seems pretty realized

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 3:58 PM

#

On the scale of Rama feeling nothing like the other bows

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:58 PM

#

And it makes me sad to see those brought to less than perfection

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 3:58 PM

#

The cumulative volume of logged hours in here is crazy

#

The bows all feel pretty different to me tbh

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 3:59 PM

#

hestia is fairly unique in play style, I’ll grant it that

#

But I feel that’s more an artifact of player choice and meta than guided game design

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:59 PM

#

I respect that you want it to be more interesting, decision wise

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:59 PM

#

how do you know what the devs intended for hestia

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 3:59 PM

#

And I can totally see that

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 3:59 PM

#

maybe they wanted it to be exactly what it is

#

we can’t know, and the EA means that their intent was guided by the meta to some degree anyway

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:00 PM

#

On a scale from Nemesis to Beowulf as far as gameplay difference compared to "base" (though tbf base shield doesn't really exist, all 4 are worlds apart), I think it's wayyy closer to Beowulf.

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:00 PM

#

going from a minigun to a sniper rifle'll tend to do that

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:01 PM

#

huh do you think beo is the most different aspect from its base weapon?

#

guess i’d never thought of that

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:02 PM

#

Could argue for Arthur

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:02 PM

#

For me tied between that and Rama. At least Rama holds some similarities with its base weapon lol

#

I thought about Arthur but also of the high heat Arthur I've seen it does actually boil down a lot to dash strike spam at the end lmao

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:02 PM

#

That has changed a little bit

#

Full combo's the way to go

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:02 PM

#

yeah

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:02 PM

#

Oh that's lit, so much more fun

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:03 PM

#

You only do dash-strike spam with Dedge

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:03 PM

#

I have no idea how you execute on that but yeah

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:03 PM

#

And with AP in the way ... not reliable

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:03 PM

#

bronze viper I have no idea how you *execute* on that but yeah

You can dash between the combo hits

#

That's how it's done

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:03 PM

#

high heat arthur by people who know what they’re doing is some of the best play to watch imo

#

just purely from a spectacle perspective

#

it just looks so good

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

Meanwhile my one 45 Arthur clear is a mess and a half

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

Lol, yeah but every time I try that I just get curb stomped by FO2. Disclaimer that I have not spent a fair amount of time on Stygius

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

That I did first try

#

dusa

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

I find it disconcerting that you're locked in place after you dash -> attack your combo

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

That's the hard part, yeah

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

At least it's my own hubris that gets me hit when I commit to a bad charge on Rama, I can cancel whenever I want

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

canceling an almost complete rama powershot hurts my soul more than taking the damage

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

Yeah basically

#

Also hurts my body

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

mood

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

Or at least Zag's

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

2+ dashes Arthur should be able to weave in and out of attacks

#

1 dash arthur ... is a lot of patience

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

If I'm trying to cancel right before the completed shot typically I've already mentally locked into a bad decision and I opted out too late lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

Peach reckons 1 dash arthur (ruthless) is the way to go for 40 speedruns

#

idk how that works but the man gets results

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

Yeah because he highrolls +dashes from hermes

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

lmao

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

Otherwise the build's a bit slower

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

yeah that helps

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

Excalibur is one of the last aspects I already spent blood on, I'll give triple swings a shot again at 40

#

Or maybe less heat lol. I do have 15 more sword bounties to go on HM >_>

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

Triple swing has the advantage of a wide, big arc

#

Use that for rooms

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

I think the play patterns that end up being the weirdest and most distinct in hades are beo and Zeus

#

But yeah Arthur and Rama are both big departures

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

oh boi

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

Baj I watch you play Zeus

#

The positioning is crazy

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

Honestly Zag Shield, for being a base shield, it's a pretty big departure from the others lmao

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

There's a billion decisions you can make on the fly

#

And another billion to make up for mistakes

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

Sometimes I forget to recall my shield, 3 slam dancers jump next to me and I get megasad (and megadead)

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

bronze viper Honestly Zag Shield, for being a base shield, it's a pretty big departure from t...

Bullrushing overrated, me mash attack

#

dusa

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

zeus is definitely a big one for “weirdest aspect”

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

I dunno zag shield is a pretty normal malphon aspect

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

lmao

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

It's what Zagius tried to be

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

And it's the one you don't want to bullrush with unless you pick up Charged Shot

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

Chaos secretly the base shield

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

^

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

Lots of blocking and no damage

#

Sounds like a shield to me

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

lmao

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

I kept playing around with damage rotations on Zag shield and couldn't find anything that felt like it clearly won. The one I liked was bull rushing behind enemies, strike + dash strike + strike dash away

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

actually that makes sense

#

petition to make chaos zag shield

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:11 PM

#

Zag Shield is kinda hammer reliant if you want top times, but otherwise hits a nice consistent time/damage threshold

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:11 PM

#

the damage rotation i like best on zag shield is to get charged shot

#

i haven’t played it enough to find anything better lol

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:11 PM

#

Can also do neat things with Pulverizing Blow

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:11 PM

#

^

#

or that

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

Dashing Flight and Explosive Return are decent too

#

To make the special worth using

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

oh really?

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

Empowering Flight to an extent as well

#

Yes

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

Is pulverizing blow double edge

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

Kinda ?

#

It only works on standing attacks

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

i honestly never use special on zag shield

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

But is a double-hit attack

#

No knockback as well

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

Scuffed double edge still good confirmed

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

edgy arrow i honestly never use special on zag shield

I don't unless I have a zeus or ares special, or get the hammers I mentionned

#

whenever I do Zag shield

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

Dashing Flight is the Parting Shot of hammers

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

makes sense

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

Who knows what it does

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

i think we basically know how parting shot works now

#

right?

shy plinth Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

Depends on who's awake when you ask

hardy crypt Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

Zeus Shield with Pulverizing Blow + Empowering Flight is a super fun run.

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

Probably. But it's not because of intuition from the tooltip, I'll tell you that lol

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

Dashing Flight makes the shield travel faster if you throw the special while dashing, which is huge

#

Erases the main problem with the special, that is, it's downtime on all shield attacks

#

Damage bonus is great too

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

yeah also dashing flight is pretty straightforward

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

I had Chaos with Dashing Flight and tried in vain to tell the difference. to see if it was if I threw shields while dashing, or if I am dashing, the shields travel faster, it's so hard to tell

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

it’s easy to tell when it’s working because of how fast the special goes

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

on Chaos it's only the main shield

#

Still a good take

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

^

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

Omfg

#

Well that explains my confusion lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

special hammers only work with the main shield on chaos as a rule

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

Oh yeah it makes the homing better

#

For some reason

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

So it's a dash-special like Malphon?

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

Ye

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

Kk

#

But yeah, I didn't know the bit about it only affecting the main shield, no wonder I thought it wasn't doing anything

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

Another reason Chaos shield is kinda sad

#

for speed

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

i wish dread flight worked on all the shields

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

The extra shields do much less then you'd want them tho

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

Should be called Dead Flight

#

It is usually what I am when I take it

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

^

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

chaos could even have a reduced version that only allowed 1 extra bounce for chaos

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

bronze viper It is usually what I am when I take it

same

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

It's the same case as the extra chain lightning boon

solemn pulsar Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

hey the extra shields do just as much damage as the main shield

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

Effectively useless

#

At 'least the boon opens up the legendary for Zeus, which is busted

solemn pulsar Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

before the buffs

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

Golly I wish it was as useless as Chain Lightning

#

Nope, it just removes your moveset for 5 seconds

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

It's harmful

#

A waste of a hammer

#

Like

#

WHy

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

i feel like it’d be alright for chaos

#

maybe

#

idk

spiral island Feb 25, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

Hey guys

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

Spoilers, It isn't

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

Your shields never come back

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

as it currently is yeah

#

i know

#

but if it worked for everything

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

Oh it'd be straight fire if it worked right

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

okay basically in my head it would just reactivate old chaos

#

that’s probably why i think it’d be good

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

If I look at my logs when I started playing this game and spammed Chaos shield, Dread Flight was my top picked hammer, but like, 3 times

#

Because I assumed it did what it said

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

Alas, the reason why Chaos shield was good was because of the angles it used to have

#

Made the bounces actually useful

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

that’s true actually yeah

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

And worked well with Zeus special and ME for multiple procs

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

the star pattern was huge

#

the bounces were also huge tho

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

Made it insane for rooms

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

it was both

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

And ok for bosses

#

Now it's worse in both departments

#

LOL

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

It didn't matter that it was kinda slow at bosses because rooms instadied

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

^

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

Tbf it was very slow at bosses

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

and it was absurdly safe lol

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

well it could also multihit on spec right

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

yup

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

Hmm Hmm

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

because of the timings of the bounces

#

they wouldn’t hit at the same time

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

Baj what are your fav zag shield hammers

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

And also tbf Haelian's AP2 Epic Thunder Flourish + Epic Static Discharge + Athena seed carried I think every single 51+ chaos record in EA?

#

So even at its heyday Chaos was not as good as people thought

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

pulv

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

sullen minnow Baj what are your fav zag shield hammers

Charged Shot, Pulverizing Blow, Dashing Wallop

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

There’s a couple obvious ones, but I didn’t know if you had a 1st

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

Avoid bullrush hammers

#

They suck

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

Yeah I don’t bull rush ever

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

I don't think it deserved the degree of nerf it got

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

Sudden Rush is ok

sullen minnow Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

Unless it’s for charged shot lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

bronze viper So even at its heyday Chaos was not as good as people thought

yeah this had got to be true

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

But not needed

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

eris wasn’t even that much worse back then

#

and people used chaos for speedruns

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

Eris was basically the ME build

#

Until people figured that Tidal Dash was busted

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

indeed

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

fricken GY used to be in all weaps lineups

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

Lol, I blame bablo for being one of the first to try Eris out for heat. He kind of roflstomped 48 heat with it but no one paid it any mind because it's bablo

#

Then 1.0 came out, it got a nominal buff and people actually tried the aspect for themselves

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

and then collectively the entire community was like... wait a second

#

eris good

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

Also didn't ME nerfs happen too

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

Yeah

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

oh true

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

And dad call became a thing

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

yes to pre req

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:23 PM

#

^

#

dash used to count

#

which is crazy to think about now ofc

wanton plover Feb 25, 2021, 4:23 PM

#

feelsokayman

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:23 PM

#

It was very stupid, yes. I don't think they should have been as harsh on the prereq reduction

#

And lmao what did Deadly Reversal do to someone's family at SGG

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:23 PM

#

Honestly surprised Deadly Reversal got the nerf too

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

yeah i’ve been wondering that for ages

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

Like, Merciful End, makes sense, the duo is stupid

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

Deadly Reversal did nothing wrong lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

giving DR exactly the same nerf as ME is... weird

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

They probably just wanted to nerf Athena Dash's utility

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

yeah maybe

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

More then anything

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

that would make sense

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

Then just remove the dash from the list

#

Easy. Athena's Aid and Phalanx Shot are both amazing boons

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

Too deep in the game do to that

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

oh i forgot those used to count

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

too many peeps rely on it

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

yeah that is weird

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

As a crutch

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

Well tbf Athena's Aid is not the "okay well I guess I'll be immune for the next 30 seconds" it used to be

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

ledger doesn’t mean remove divine dash entirely, just remove only it from the DR prereqs

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

Pom scaling on it was stupid lol

#

Still a fine aid

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

Oh it's still awesome lol, no doubt about that, but it was nice being able to just ignore entire Dad phases

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

edgy arrow ledger doesn’t mean remove divine dash entirely, just remove *only* it from the ...

Don't ya mean ME prereqs

#

lol

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

No, I meant both

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

oh

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

yeah

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

fair

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:27 PM

#

I don't think it's fair that Divine Dash gives you prereqs for good Duos, that's silly, it's the best boon in the game

#

But why punish Phalanx Shot and Athena's Aid

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:27 PM

#

^

#

That I don't get

#

In fact, Phalanx Shot would be sick if it could open up Deadly Reversal

#

Artemis attack/Phalanx Shot/Tidal Dash madness

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

athena’s aid doesn’t work with ME

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

Phalanx Shot is so underrated for just sheer utility value

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

so i can see it not being a prereq there

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

bronze viper Phalanx Shot is so underrated for just sheer utility value

Phalanx Shot is amazing, period

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

meep

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

Big damage, big deflects

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

buff DR

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

Ranged kinda as well

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

thanks for coming to my ted talk

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

In fact I hold the anyheat Poseidon sword record with Phalanx Shot start lol

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

that was a good ted talk Bright

#

i agree

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

baj youre also insane

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

Oh is Phalanx new meta now for Poseidon? Neat

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

Well, the top 3 times have it

#

So kinda ?

#

Peeps aren't sold on it yet

#

I am tho

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

i am

#

its hard tho

#

tart is so slow mate

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

Oh, btw, what do you start on Zeus aspect if you're not like, you know, knees deep in AP2 and whatnot

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

That's why I run Fiery Presence

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

bronze viper Oh, btw, what do you start on Zeus aspect if you're not like, you know, knees de...

Depends on the build I want to go

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

#

zeus spec with RR right?

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

#

Zeus special, Artemis attack/special, Ares attack/special

#

Those 3 are my main starts nowadays

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

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I got 40 just yoloing Zeus but I have no idea if that's optimal

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

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With RR, yeah

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

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Neat, I'll try the others out when I go back to it

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

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But you can do fine with GR too

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

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Ruthless?

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

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Yeah

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:30 PM

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Why in particular

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:31 PM

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when you run ares attack does that go into ME

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or is that just ares special

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:31 PM

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Shields get to slide after a well timed dash attack

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You keep the momentum of the dash

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If you do it right, you aren't far behind from 2 dashes, movement wise

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And you get the occasional damage boost

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+50% global is a lot

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:31 PM

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Interesting, do you have a video of that? I think I know what you're talking about but I haven't ever consciously done it

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:32 PM

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and ruthless scales flat damage insanely well

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its just a mini eris buff

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:32 PM

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bronze viper Interesting, do you have a video of that? I think I know what you're talking ab...

I got a youtube channel full of that

true fable Feb 25, 2021, 4:32 PM

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for any weapon that can take advantage of it

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:35 PM

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Okay, yeah so it's what I was thinking. That's interesting. I'll try that out next time too

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:36 PM

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Timing's a little weird to get a first, but it isn't too tight

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2 dashes is still plenty fine

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Just for positionning

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And you can do the dash slide on 2 dashes as well

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You can kinda zoom around

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:39 PM

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Lmao it's nice to see speedrunners also getting grabbed by Wringers. I know it's not that bad but it feels like I lose a percentage point of likelihood of making TD3 whenever it happens

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:41 PM

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Yeah, happens to the best of us

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I think the Hestia WR also gets grabbed by a wringer at some point

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for anyheat

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:42 PM

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Also my instinct it to try mashing out of it ala Gorgon heads

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I know better, but what else am I going to do in that span

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:42 PM

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Lament ?

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bouldy

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In all honesty I just take the time to observe the room and plan my next moves

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:43 PM

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I know what my next move is if I'm melee in a Speeder Cloner Wringer room lol. Better gird my loins for plenty more thinkin' time

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:43 PM

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fair

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Speedy cloner wringers are pain incarnate

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:44 PM

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Sometimes i feel like their challenge rating is actually negative for how many can occupy a room lmao

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:44 PM

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To be fair, they are one of the enemy types that can make 1-wave rooms

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:44 PM

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Oh, didn't know that

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That's kind of nice

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:44 PM

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It is, yeah

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Cloner really messes with the waves, tho

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:45 PM

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Mechanics wise, what causes that to happen?

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:45 PM

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They are worth a decent amount of unit value

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Waves throw out a certain amount of units based on a value, each enemy has a number for that

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Jury Summons increases the limit

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And the chaos curse as well

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:46 PM

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Right, but I meant why can only Wringers make 1 wave rooms

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:46 PM

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Sometimes the game let's you hit the limit in 1 wave

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Happens in the mid-rooms of a biome, usually

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:46 PM

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Shouldn't any enemy type be able to do that?

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At least with value >= Wringers

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:47 PM

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Some are just too low value for that

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IE : Witches, Numbkulls, Thugs

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Or they hit weird thresholds

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:47 PM

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Oh, so Wringers cleanly divide into some rooms, kk

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:47 PM

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Louts, Pests, numskull piles are the most common ones

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Outside of wringers

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In fact, you can hit a room 12 with only 4 numbskull piles, in 1 wave

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:47 PM

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Yeah, I've definitely noticed it of Louts

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:47 PM

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I had that once

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It was really nice

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:48 PM

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Is there some magic of the unit math that makes Super Elite Witch pretty close to guaranteed in Erebus room 2?

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:49 PM

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I guess ? I don't see it as guaranteed

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:49 PM

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It's not lol, I'm just doing salty math

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:49 PM

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I see the witch has often as the grey numbskull

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:49 PM

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It's around maybe 33%? I haven't been keeping close track

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:49 PM

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wringers are worth many points

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:49 PM

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^

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:49 PM

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more than anything else in tartarus

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i think that’s all it comes down to

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:50 PM

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I think Louts are worth more ?

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:50 PM

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source:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M8uSUx4vW6TZHHb8z7SbGL4uWxcME7aB3LAIikfpmoM

Google Docs

Enemy Data

HP/Difficulty

Enemy,Code,Type,HP,Armour,Difficulty
Numbskull,Swarmer,Normal,30,0,3,Tartarus
Elite,50,7,Asphodel
SuperElite,250,50,Elysium
Thug,HeavyMelee,Normal,160,0,10,Styx
Elite,480,26,Removed
SuperElite,1500,100
Wringer,DisembodiedHand,Normal,140,0,13
Elite,230,20
SuperElite,2000,300
Lout,Pu...

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:50 PM

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But wringers are pretty close

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:50 PM

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elite louts are 200, elite wringers are 300

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:50 PM

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I was thinking non-armored

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But armored, Yeah

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Armored Wringers are common for 1-wave rooms

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:51 PM

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oh sure

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yeah non armoured is the other way around

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:51 PM

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Even non-armored they are fine to get

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:51 PM

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true

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:52 PM

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As long as they aren't witches, numbskulls, I'm ok with all Tart enemies

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Prefer armored brimstones, louts and wringers

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:52 PM

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numbskulls are maybe fine

bronze viper Feb 25, 2021, 4:52 PM

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Armored brimstones gives me a lot of grief with PL

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:52 PM

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it’s very aspect dependant

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:52 PM

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edgy arrow numbskulls are maybe fine

Early on, maybe

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Later on, they take so long to just spawn

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:53 PM

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oh that’s true

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:53 PM

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They are just slow by frickin' design

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:53 PM

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yeah like chamber 12 or whatever

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:53 PM

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More like chamber 6+

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:54 PM

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guess you pay more attention than me lol

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:54 PM

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Since I started resetting, I've been a lot more cautious of the room number

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For the time

edgy arrow Feb 25, 2021, 4:55 PM

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makes sense

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i put maybe too much effort into resetting as little as possible

honest kernel Feb 25, 2021, 4:55 PM

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That's fair