it fun
#h1-high-heat-strategies
daring hedge
bronze viper
BIG CHUNGUS DAMAGE
rain sedge
I think it's because we're living in a situation where 50 heat isnt that impressive anymore for the top players
as a playerbase we have gotten that much better I think
shy gulch
?
gaunt fiber
I think it's because we're living in a situation where 50 heat isnt that impress...
Well that's motivating lmao
rain sedge
I mean to be real here
daring hedge
for you? nah
i'm trying to do all aspects at 50+ currently
rain sedge
for the top 10 players in this game 50 heat is trivial
daring hedge
it's quite an undertaking
rain sedge
yes all aspect is very different
bronze viper
Lol, 50 is extremely impressive. It doesn't get less impressive because there are 20 or whatever people who've done it. There are a lot of poeple who play this game.
shy gulch
yeah tail if u cant beat 50 heat on lv 1 guan yu are u actually good at this game
rain sedge
I'm saying doing 50 heat by any aspect, for the top 10 players, isnt that impressive anymore
which is maybe why they don't upload it
ripe crane
I started up the game a couple days ago for the first time in a month+ and tried 50 Rama. I don't think I ever made it to Lernie. Idk how you can go fast with this thing
rain sedge
the skill cap has been raised so high basically
daring hedge
i guess it depends on the aspect, like
doing 50 with rama for me is pretty consistent
shy plinth
Would phrase it that 50 heat is no longer shocking or unique
true fable
yeah i wasnt going to upload my 50 heat hestia
shy gulch
crepes unfortunately not every weapon can simply point and shoot :(
true fable
but my youtube thumbnail was fire
shy gulch
which is why i havent done 50 heat on anything other than hestia LUL
true fable
so i had to
bronze viper
Would phrase it that 50 heat is no longer shocking or unique
Agreed as a community, but it's definitely a monumental hallmark for individuals
shy plinth
"Impressive" is a loaded word, but it happens at a much higher frequency than it used to
100%
rain sedge
Would phrase it that 50 heat is no longer shocking or unique
hat phrases it better than me
mossy zinc
Sure we have data. @shy plinth can you add a count of unique players for each aspect to the Weapon Index?
shy plinth
For a small group of experienced players it is the barrier to entry
shy plinth
Sure
true fable
is making funny thumbnails
rain sedge
Agreed as a community, but it's definitely a monumental hallmark for individuals
exactly what I'm saying
shy plinth
Sure we have data. <@145977230034599937> can you add a count of unique players f...
What exactly do you want
true fable
all my speedrun thumbnails are just asphodel
gaunt fiber
Asphodel
daring hedge
i'm still waiting on zag shield break the targets bright
rain sedge
for me my 50 heat was one of my biggest gaming accomplishment
but I have no delusion of it being actually impressive for the community
daring hedge
for me my 50 heat was one of my biggest gaming accomplishment
and it still should be
50 is huge
shy plinth
Phrasing and tone is so hard with this stuff
rain sedge
hope that makes sense 🤷♀️
shy plinth
But 50 isn't a WR any more
rain sedge
yes I'm bad with phrasing, thanks for voicing it better hat
shy plinth
I mean I get what you're saying
Being the first at something feels earth-shattering
Catching up to people doesn't
daring hedge
yeah i get it
mossy zinc
@shy plinth in the Weapon Index, a column that shows how many players have submitted a run.
rain sedge
Catching up to people doesn't
this is it in essence
shy plinth
Have submitted a run at that heat or period
daring hedge
but i think you should still feel accomplished about it
bronze viper
It's a pretty common thing in competitive communities to ignore the rest of the 1% of the 1% that isn't the top x or whatever. The people who you don't always see at the top of the charts but always place. They are still REALLY good. Just not as visible
mossy zinc
Submitted any run in Unseeded.
daring hedge
it's kind of insane how the bar has been raised since like, blood price high heat
rain sedge
but i think you should still feel accomplished about it
I feel good at a personal level, but at the "game" or "community" level, I don't
daring hedge
i used to upload like, 41 heat dem fists and think that was truly high
bronze viper
@daring hedge yeah, maybe it makes me a cranky old man, but it's wild to see gatekeeping happening at 50 lmao
gaunt fiber
Dude you're about to do 56 Eris
mossy zinc
No, that counts multiple runs of the same player.
rain sedge
tbh at the point where hadesprofessor did eris 50 with an absolute meme build my 50 heat run became invalid
gaunt fiber
there is no meme
daring hedge
if it clears 50 it's a valid build
rain sedge
Dude you're about to do 56 Eris
I'll feel good when I actually do it
gaunt fiber
No I have not
daring hedge
"build" sometimes you hardly build anything
rain sedge
I only got to elysium so far, and I have no confidence I'll make it past heroes
gaunt fiber
I'll feel good when I actually do it
You'll get it, that is certain
rain sedge
the 4s buff duration nerf really hurts
daring hedge
i used to think i would get 32 heat on all weapons and call it there
those were the days
rain sedge
also even if that 56 eris happens, it'll be seeded
since I got tired of resetting for lightning strike
shy gulch
lol i feel that tail
true fable
lol
daring hedge
nothing wrong with seeding if you wanna do that, there is the section in the sheet for it after all
gaunt fiber
it's not as bad as resetting for a hammer
agile obsidian
dammit lost 3 dds in elysium and died at the heroes
gaunt fiber
but yeah seeded exists
bronze viper
Still need to hit 50 unseeded :3. I'm on the 50 short bus
true fable
same
gaunt fiber
yeah true
true fable
i trust that retrash didnt route
rain sedge
retrash seeding for dedge didn't make it less impressive to me, really
it's because it's on nemesis
true fable
if its routed thats diff to me
rain sedge
if its routed thats diff to me
real
daring hedge
same
true fable
but just picking a dedge seed is w/e
daring hedge
but yeah i trust retrash
shy gulch
seeding for room 1 hammer doesnt make anything less impressive to me basically
agile obsidian
The bowmen were my problem
true fable
you _can_ route with unseeded though?
you can route through death
shy gulch
if you can clear it with that, then its just more resets
true fable
but we havent run into issues like that yet
gaunt fiber
dammit lost 3 dds in elysium and died at the heroes
Oh rip
rain sedge
you can route through death
if I understood the nemesis speedrun correctly
isn't "routing" = pressing buttons to reroll the RNG for the next "thing"?
gaunt fiber
My advice for terrain works for bowmen too. Try to hide from them
agile obsidian
My advice for terrain works for bowmen too. Try to hide from them
There is just so many freaking things
rain sedge
and museus uses a mod that can translate and show that RNG into boons etc that he'll get?
so theoretically that can be done regardless of the initial RNG seed?
true fable
well itd be pretty obvious
mossy zinc
We have a Player Count column in the Weapon Index now.
agile obsidian
I know that 23 heat isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things but this was my first semi-high heat and it was pretty hard
true fable
the only two reliable ways to increment rng are casting and summoning
both of which are pretty visible
shy plinth
Wait a minute let me make sure I filtered this right
rain sedge
the only two reliable ways to increment rng are casting and summoning
hmm that makes it more easily checkable then
gaunt fiber
hmm that makes it more easily checkable then
Just randomly cast/summon during you runs to confuse people
daring hedge
btw thank you hat for being on top of things with the heat sheet as always
we really appreciate it
shy plinth
Got choo ❤️
bronze viper
@mossy zinc I wasn't being specific enough. By "we don't have the data for that" I mean that the percentage of people who submit to discord for 40+ is probably not a very representative group of everyone who's done it. Though looking at that yeah, I do agree that within this discord it's evident Beo is popular.
shy plinth
Here we go
This is unseeded with a video only
I did not expect Arthur and Hestia to be tied for second
mossy zinc
👍🏽
daring hedge
luci, zeus shield and hades spear 😔
ripe crane
Guan Yu 🥉
rain sedge
this is not at 50+ though?
shy plinth
Nope just on the unseeded
rain sedge
cool
shy plinth
Okay there are 22 submitted rama runs
Tail has 16 of them
Tail you might have a problem
daring hedge
agile obsidian
wait what is that spreadsheet for?
shy plinth
Heat tracking
agile obsidian
ok
daring hedge
a lot of those rama runs are kinda obsolete anyway, like
when i was climbing heat with it
mossy zinc
wait what is that spreadsheet for?
High Heat leaderboard.
green citrus
I did not expect Arthur and Hestia to be tied for second
I suspect this is because they work very well dmg wise on their own so can run shackle.
shy plinth
We also have two people who have only submitted one run and it is Hestia
mossy zinc
Excalibur just feels satisfying, landing those big hits.
shy plinth
There are a bunch of one-offs
Peach has Arthur, Blightning and tyler have Beo, Juaber and haelian and Azure have Eris
Astaos obv
rain sedge
Excalibur just feels satisfying, landing those big hits.
excalibur
satisfying
ooookay
green citrus
I got a 50 heat Arthur run coming, just you wait. 🙂
daring hedge
there was a player around here who did a super high hestia heat but didn't record or submit
rain sedge
there was a player around here who did a super high hestia heat but didn't recor...
roblox
gaunt fiber
He does stream
daring hedge
nah someone else
rain sedge
He does stream
I know, hence the request
gaunt fiber
You should watch him Schad
gaunt fiber
He did stream some 50 earlier btw
green citrus
I tried a few today after setting any heat WR but died somewhere in ely with cursed slash
true fable
roblox submitted i think
green citrus
Yeah, I gotta just load up centaur hearts I think
mossy zinc
Oh yeah, I saw that post.
mossy zinc
@weak mesa do you have a video of your 57 clear that you can submit to the leaderboard? 
weak mesa
I didn't record it, so nope
mossy zinc
Ah rip.
gaunt fiber
F
weak mesa
111 streak out of 119 clear?
yea i streaked until I died to styx trap when I tried 40 heat
I popped death defiance to heal in a way too small room 😭
rain sedge
an experience we all shared 😦
opal token
What keepsake should I start for chaos shied 32?
gaunt fiber
sometimes HS likes to remind you it exists
bronze viper
Oh, Eris got nerfed. And buffed. That's a snazzy particle effect.
gaunt fiber
the effect is amazing
weak mesa
sometimes HS likes to remind you it exists
At least HS still just punishes mistakes, I'm glad to not bother with AP anymore haha
mossy zinc
What keepsake should I start for chaos shied 32?
Chaos Aspect is very flexible. You can make anything work tbh.
rain sedge
I have a big brain suggestion
if you will
doom on special
with the boon that stacks doom per hit
so that's extra 4 doom stack right?
merciful ending
weak mesa
i was about to get hyped for a chaos special boon
rain sedge
you're bull charging anyway
special -- bull charge to proc ME and charge special
profit
gaunt fiber
I like to go thunder flourish, heartbreak strike and find smoldering air
bronze viper
That's my preference as well
rain sedge
I like my meme idea 😦
bronze viper
It's not that meme lol, doom is good on Chaos
mossy zinc
Speaking of, I might like Quick Favor more than Smoldering Air for Aphrodite's Aid. I got 4 or 5 Greater Calls on Hades earlier with Epic Quick Favor.
true fable
but doom on special is pretty good
if ello is to be believed, quick favor is kind of a trap
like it doesnt really do anything
gaunt fiber
Yeah I like Aphrodite's lesser call but the full just feels too good
true fable
i could be misunderstanding
gaunt fiber
Idk when I pick it I do feel a difference
rain sedge
if ello is to be believed, quick favor is kind of a trap
on epic it does a lot
on common it's useless
gaunt fiber
yeah rarity is important
gaunt fiber
idk one more dash is already really good
bronze viper
Greatest Reflex is weird. Rarity matters a lot and not at all. You just want the boon lol.
mossy zinc
Greatest Reflex is just the best boon in the game.
gaunt fiber
Better than dying lament?
bronze viper
Not possible
daring hedge
spring kettle
not second wave?
gaunt fiber
Splitting bolt best boon
I guess it's necessary for Lightning strike Arthur
green citrus
Lol it's so comical that that duo is so fricken good
oblique crane
i know twin shot and triple shot are the premier hammers for rama, but which do you choose when they're both offered?
spring kettle
ME is so powerful
opal token
Speaking of memes...I have thunder dash, jolted, high voltage, splitting bolt on my Chaos shield lol
With no special or attack bc I keep getting offered no specials
daring hedge
such a testament to its power that it's still broken even after the prereq and combo damage nerfs
spring kettle
it's good for offense and defense
mossy zinc
ME does barely anything in a lot of builds. Greatest Reflex is always a top tier pick in any situation.
spring kettle
divine dash keeping you safe
true fable
obviously depends on the weap
daring hedge
ME does barely anything in a lot of builds. Greatest Reflex is always a top tier...
i would say there are some situations where greatest reflex isn't really needed either though
true fable
are we counting hyper rush
gaunt fiber
are we counting hyper rush
that one spicy
green citrus
such a testament to its power that it's still broken even after the prereq and c...
I'd say they did a good job nerfing how fast you can get it at least. Cause if you got ME in tart with divine dash it was just seriously borked
bronze viper
I think Divine Dash is definitely in the conversation. If you have it, Greatest Reflexes also becomes clearly the best option.
mossy zinc
I'll sell Divine Dash before I sell Greatest Reflex.
bronze viper
Agree to disagree lol
gaunt fiber
Interesting
green citrus
Selling Divine Dash LUL
bronze viper
Don't even need one. Dashing is for cowards
sly remnant
the best boon in the game is deadly <main damage slot>
spring kettle
athena's better duos all have such specific requirements
gaunt fiber
I'm sad about DR
spring kettle
obviously not talking stubborn roots here
opal token
Balls I punted Hydra...I was enjoying my thunder dash shield run
green citrus
If stubborn roots healed after the room was over, it would be super good in high heat
gaunt fiber
except if you time out lol
green citrus
Still, it'd be worth the time risk lol
spring kettle
it heals too slowly
green citrus
Yeah, otherwise it's too slow that's what I'm saying haha
mossy zinc
You still need to i-frame to avoid damage with Divine Dash. Greatest Reflex gives you another Dash to do that. Divine Dash is also in a slot where it's easily replaced with other good dashes, and it doesn't help much with DPS.
sly remnant
I'll sell Divine Dash before I sell Greatest Reflex.
big agree
mossy zinc
i would say there are some situations where greatest reflex isn't really needed ...
Maybe, but it still helps you clear rooms faster just simply because you can more easily line up enemies, position yourself for backstabs, and cross the gap.
mossy zinc
No idea actually.
gaunt fiber
FO2 does not prevent Theseus from phasing for like 2 hours
somber oracle
yeah as someone who is like constantly on fo2 theseus will forever take his sweet sweet time
opal token
Started epic deadly@strike on Hestia, am I supposed to just slam epic passion dash over epic Different League/common Crush Shot?
Cause passion dash is pretty meh on Hestia? But opens heart rend
sly remnant
normally the goal is aphro special on hestia
bronze viper
You do not want to be in the range to have to use Passion Dash to activate Heart Rend on Hestia
gaunt fiber
You're most likely not gonna apply weak too much with your dash imo
sly remnant
dash is adecent alternative if you aren't getting hunter dash
but also agree....its bad at applying the status
gaunt fiber
Take the mighty Crush Shot
actually it will make boiling blood a nightmare to proc too
sly remnant
ye i think i'd rather get dash
gaunt fiber
yup
opal token
So dash over different league cool ty
Well I could roll yeah
Cause it’s Tart so have 4
gaunt fiber
oh, then roll
sly remnant
ye you really want aphro special
gaunt fiber
No it led to a nice discussion
mossy zinc
Led.
gaunt fiber
Now I know I'd pick passion dash in that situation
If I were to play Hestia ever again
mossy zinc
Odds are low since it doesn't begin with Guan.
opal token
Gotta tick it off for 24
mossy zinc
Because big damage go boom.
sly remnant
^
gaunt fiber
Big damage, heartrend
sly remnant
and it applies the heart rend status
gaunt fiber
big love
gaunt fiber
Pink explosion too
sly remnant
aphro t2s are not worth going out of your way for
gaunt fiber
Aphrodite t2's hate train has arrived once again
sullen minnow
I’ve always taken a look for some of the crutches she has like +healing rooms
mossy zinc
Her t2s are good, maybe you aren't. 
gaunt fiber
You can try but Sweet Surrender and Dying lament will always be on my side
sly remnant
i'm not good
mossy zinc
🔫
gaunt fiber
You cleared 50
We talked about this anyway
"yeah but I highrolled"
We do gamble in this house, remember
sly remnant
!quote 1
opal token
Astaos personal hell is forced to play DC2 Hestia foreve r:P
gaunt fiber
I hate DC2
gaunt fiber
My hell was the short period when double dash strike was not working anymore with GY
well that reaction did not last long @sly remnant
gaunt fiber
why
sly remnant
only one R as far as i could tell
sly remnant
you are funnier than me
night forge
wow FO2 theseus will literally take ages just as usual.
gaunt fiber
Yeah
mossy zinc
Just attack Asterius while Theseus phases.
sly remnant
what if i phase them both
gaunt fiber
He's already dead
mossy zinc
Go for both.
mossy zinc
what if i phase them both
Good job. Have tea while you wait.
night forge
i would've if i had crush shot like usual, but i had true shot instead so i opted for killing one first
of course i damaged theseus in the process too, but not as much
green citrus
Excalibur typically just swipes them both left, if you will
night forge
gotta say, FO2 is much more fun than FO1 because everyone's literally zooming
green citrus
Double kill definitely always feels amazing haha. To see it go to the death screen immediately upon that damage just gives you the 'damn I just did that' feeling
gaunt fiber
wdym
sly remnant
i play big boom
sly remnant
i don't play the heroes fight
green citrus
Dio one shot
green citrus
I will say, I have had an 8 sec heroes fight with Excalibur
So, basically not playing lol
sly remnant
i think my hades record is....27 seconds?
green citrus
jfc
sly remnant
the god
sly remnant
my 27s had an immediate darkness
gaunt fiber
can't blame
sly remnant
he didn't move after that
gaunt fiber
indeed
night forge
will definitely run more fo2, that was fun
gaunt fiber
It will be challenging with HL maxed out, but yeah it's good difficulty modifier imo
true fable
my hades record is 26 seconds but it was a 6 heat 😔
sly remnant
tbf the difference between my hades and your hades was 0
ripe crane
I've been done with Hades like 8 seconds before
rain sedge
The invul time is like more than 8s
ripe crane
I started it up on Steam and was like "yeah actually I'm done with this game" and alt+F4'd before it even finished loading
sly remnant
ROFL
north dove
Feels like I haven't played in forever, hopefully get some time to grind out some 50+ heat runs this weekend
sly remnant
nice! what do you have your sights set on
opal token
Man I put Blown Kiss on my hera bow and that made it...weird
That messed up that run haha
opal token
Silly question: do you take epic swift strike over epic greatest reflex with Gilgamesh?
I already have 3 or 4 dashes or whatever
Get 6? Lol
@mossy zinc still around?
edgy arrow
unless you’re going for a meme “get all the dashes” build there’s no way you’re practically going to make use of 6-7 dashes
i’d go swift strike here
opal token
That’s what I was thinking but wanted to make sure I wasn’t crazy
true fable
i wonder what happens when he takes on tailesque's records
shy plinth
Then tail would have to speedrun
tidal flame
War
shy plinth
And then the universe would implode
tidal flame
Let's see it
halcyon flame
the race for 64 heat
tidal flame
The race to the ultimate clickbait title
true fable
ananke has basically been barrel rolling everyone at anyheat
actually
i would say anyheat but he's been barrel rolling everyone in every category
mossy zinc
<@311477984886521856> still around?
Honestly, you couldn't go wrong with either.
halcyon flame
thanks nya for recommending deadly reversal lol
gaunt fiber
Would have taken the dashes
edgy arrow
how many dashes do y’all use lol
not saying it’d be useless, it’s just diminishing returns
waxen relic
@shy plinth if you happen to have too much time on your hand: there seems to be a small bug on the high-heat-spreadsheet. The Player Index says i have 4 submissions, though i actually only have 3. Just wanted to let you know.
shy plinth
You have a 32 mirrorless
12/4/2020 atticor 34 Shield - Zagreus
12/11/2020 atticor 46 Shield - Zagreus
1/9/2021 atticor 26 Shield - Beowulf
1/22/2021 atticor 32 Shield - Beowulf
Ah looks like it's not filtering out victory screen only
All fixed, good catch
gaunt fiber
not saying it’d be useless, it’s just diminishing returns
To be fair I like not attacking on Gilga
And you get to reach the exit faster to end the pain as quickly as possible
shy plinth
But if you don't attack how can you apply doom
gaunt fiber
I apply it with the special
edgy arrow
To be fair I like not attacking on Gilga
... ngl i feel this
you’re clearly a bigger brained gilga player than me
edgy arrow
same, if you count “times played” as “times gotten out of tartarus”
wanton plover
i like zag bow
gaunt fiber
Daedelus is nice
In tartarus he was like "yeah massive spin should be good with his tempest strike"
In Elysium he wanted me to win
halcyon flame
tempest strike actually doesn't seem too bad with guan yu
gaunt fiber
First high ish run in a while, not too rusted
halcyon flame
and if you get rupture and soemthing on special it's easy p.status
gaunt fiber
The thing is, it gets your enemies out of your spin
so it's good if you don't get hit to get you some space (even though hyper sprint or double dash would do the same lol)
Otherwise it's a meme, Nyaanyaa told me to build this one day
halcyon flame
quick spin tempest strike guan yu builds 
gaunt fiber
She would rather say that I took the joke too far
but yeah I won't tell a beginner to go for it
The damage is not too bad on bosses tho, since it's still a spin and deals a lot
turbid perch
just checked and it took me 37 tries to get a 32 heat clear :^)
turbid perch
thank u :D yes it is a sight to behold
vital grove
How do we rate Eris hammers? Rocket, cluster, target?
halcyon flame
s tier
gaunt fiber
You want cluster before rocket iirc
halcyon flame
that's it
gaunt fiber
Delta is QoL
You should check Medic guide
He recorded an overexplained run yesterday
Should be on yt
vital grove
Time to watch youtube runs
If I had time lol, can you be a nice Astaos.exe and tldr his hammer views
gaunt fiber
I'll check it or ask Lili if I see him somewhere
halcyon flame
spread is only good with zag really
vital grove
Yeah I think so too
Ideally I want rocket and cluster
I'll take targeting happily too, but for other hammers 🤔
Like does ricochet also ricochet the Zeus lightning if you have it?
vital grove
Thank you Astabro
plush scaffold
The guide was made with any% in mind, but I think most things are still viable, specially for 32 heat
agile obsidian
https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/
Thats literally what I've been doing down like to the exact mirror options. I've been watching too many speedruns lol
agile obsidian
You want cluster before rocket iirc
Really?
gaunt fiber
The guide was made with any% in mind, but I think most things are still viable, ...
Really nice work tho
gaunt fiber
I mean cluster can't be bad
agile obsidian
I think cluster is the best 2nd rocket
Yeah I think you want cluster and rocket for eris runs
plush scaffold
Cluster is better with the right room rng imo, specially for kbm
silk blaze
Cluster on controller feels a bit hard to really utilize but using it to proc eris and just attack works
agile obsidian
I always prioritize rocket and then cluster
gaunt fiber
yeah
fallow stream
Cluster on controller feels a bit hard to really utilize but using it to proc er...
Lol, I tried playing m+k and I felt like I was a 2yr old
I must play on gamepad
silk blaze
I prefer controller for a reason, it's just unfortunate that the non-rocket special is hard to actually hit things with consistently on controller
agile obsidian
I prefer controller for a reason, it's just unfortunate that the non-rocket spec...
I mean just turn on auto aim
agile obsidian
Makes it easier to me
Oh for the non rocket
I thought you were talking about rocket bomb and I was like huh
silk blaze
I feel like that'd just make the attack harder for me to use though
I'll try it, regardless
agile obsidian
Eris literally becomes a melee weapon when you speedrun and its hilarious
plush scaffold
aim assist on, attack at cursor off is the way to with Eris yeah
silk blaze
I'm talking about analog stick controls, not mouse
fallow stream
I'm primarily a fist runner
agile obsidian
So for the rush delivery + hyper sprint combo is the extra damage only online when you dash or all the time?
fallow stream
Only when a speed boost is active
agile obsidian
oh
agile obsidian
But still you dash strike a lot so I imagine its pretty good
gaunt fiber
When you dash Pengy. But the duration is huge so don't worry, it's an amazing combo
halcyon flame
what are good duos for a zeus build on eris? not looking into speedrunning, rather just surviving 32 heat (while still having to deal with td3)
agile obsidian
Yeah I'm always dash striking
agile obsidian
what are good duos for a zeus build on eris? not looking into speedrunning, rath...
You dont really need any duos
I guess the zeus legendary might be nice
halcyon flame
guess i'll take favor
fallow stream
I just failed a run in Tartarus that was going to be epic... Chaos offered me +119% special on Demeter fist if I could clear the furies without attack.... I came VERY close
gaunt fiber
I guess sea storm would be nice but you would have to get Poseidon call for that
halcyon flame
i still really wanna get splitting bolt but hey epic storm lightning would be super nice
gaunt fiber
I just failed a run in Tartarus that was going to be epic... Chaos offered me +1...
lmao rip
agile obsidian
I guess sea storm would be nice but you would have to get Poseidon call for that
Or dash right?
gaunt fiber
The dash does not enable it anymore
agile obsidian
ok
halcyon flame
pos dash isn't a prereq for storm lightning right?
gaunt fiber
Sea storm used to be "meta" for Eris iirc
Even though Lili got WR by skipping it over hydraulic might lmao
agile obsidian
Storm lighting isnt a duo right?
plush scaffold
Sea Storm wasn't really meta even before, just a very good boon
halcyon flame
how exactly does poseidon dash even help?
agile obsidian
pos dash isn't a prereq for storm lightning right?
I mean pos dash is really good on eris
fallow stream
Sea storm and lightning rod are two of my favourite duos..
I dunno why ppl hate on lightning rod.. it is very good
agile obsidian
For speedrunning
halcyon flame
rupture and p.status?
gaunt fiber
yeah meta is a strong word since it's just a nice bonus
plush scaffold
how exactly does poseidon dash even help?
poseidon dash is a huge part of your damage, the base raw damage is very high, and amplified by eris buff
gaunt fiber
Sea storm and lightning rod are two of my favourite duos..
I dunno why ppl hate...
I don't think people hate it, it's good
halcyon flame
Storm lighting isnt a duo right?
storm lightning makes chain lightning bounce more, sea storm causes thunderbolts to strike enemies struck with knockback effects
agile obsidian
I think mabye for 32 or something you might want to take athena dash imo
gaunt fiber
Except for speedruns I mean, since lightning rod is not your core duo
agile obsidian
I like speedrunnign eris because it does not need a lot to become good
Like compared to ME fists or something
gaunt fiber
The thing is even in high heat you tend to go for stygian since it gives you a better Hermes pool
agile obsidian
The thing is even in high heat you tend to go for stygian since it gives you a b...
Didnt know that and that makes sense
silk blaze
Stygian has so much more potential
Hermes regen, chaos bloodstones, bad news
But infernal is lower variance
(As far as making cast work, at least)
gaunt fiber
It's personal preference but I like infernal more for Tartarus
as GY
very specific
fallow stream
One of my favourite meme combos is Blizzard shot + Talos and Pos special...
I had no idea you could just rake enemies back and forth through the cast like that 🤣🤣
fallow stream
It's the only fist aspect I'll actually consider taking the flying special hammer
fallow stream
Sea Storm wasn't really meta even before, just a very good boon
I personally love running Hades spear + tempest strike and sea storm.
Get quick spin and you end rooms instantly. I dunno if there's a faster weapon.
And this is coming from someone who used to hate the spear
mossy cape
https://imgur.com/Om6r6BT
Check out my first 32 heat final boss fight
gaunt fiber
Lmao
cyan stag
Fun while it lasted.
gaunt fiber
900 gold tho
mossy cape
Nothing worth spending on
gaunt fiber
sad
waxen relic
i wanna say use acorn, but then you would not have gotten there i guess
gaunt fiber
maybe acorn would have saved hp for Theseus and Asterius
gaunt fiber
yeah it happens
waxen relic
if hp is not a problem you got this 
mossy cape
I would've if not for the stupid 1 heat speedrun timer
fallow stream
TD1??
gaunt fiber
What sword aspect were you playing?
mossy cape
Yep, with TD2 I can't make it out of Tartarus
agile obsidian
At high heat or just normally?
mossy cape
What sword aspect were you playing?
Zag this run
gaunt fiber
Ok
mossy cape
At high heat or just normally?
32
agile obsidian
ok
wanton plover
every zag swordrun i have uses splash dash 😳
gaunt fiber
Just so you know, Jury summons and Damage control 2 will slow you down REALLY bad
wanton plover
what does this mean guys 😳
gaunt fiber
avoid them and TD will be easier
waxen relic
Just so you know, Jury summons and Damage control 2 will slow you down REALLY ba...
and Callisthenics Program
mossy cape
Noted, thx. For now I'll try getting that 1 timer heat from somewhere else
halcyon flame
what's a bigger flex; getting a 2 sack on td3 and proceeding to do all 5 tunnels anyway or 32 heat first try
fallow stream
Calisthenics is a better choice than jury.
Jury summons is +20% enemies which is essentially +20% HP.
Calisthenics is +15%
waxen relic
First of all Bosses
fallow stream
The only reason to take jury summons is the extra gold
gaunt fiber
and Callisthenics Program
Yeah that one underestimated too
waxen relic
secondly what matters is the amount of hits you have to do
gaunt fiber
^
halcyon flame
The only reason to take jury summons is the extra gold
wait so what if jury summons was actually good for farming runs in that case
gaunt fiber
longer runs = less runs
halcyon flame
🧠
waxen relic
wait so what if jury summons was actually good for farming runs in that case
what are you farming? gold?
halcyon flame
more enemies = more gold = more gold to spend on meta currencies
waxen relic
just get that poseidon boon that increases it
halcyon flame
galaxy brain moment
gaunt fiber
meta currencies are cheap
celest grail
poseidon boon doesnt increase gold
gaunt fiber
except Charon's shop
celest grail
only chaos boons and bouldy do
edgy arrow
gold is not a meta currency guys
fallow stream
Jury summons plus hoarding slash is also fun by the end of a run
edgy arrow
don’t farm gold
gaunt fiber
poseidon boon doesnt increase gold
It does?
waxen relic
poseidon boon doesnt increase gold
it does
celest grail
you can farm gold to farm meta currencies though
gaunt fiber
Ocean's bounty is gem darkness gold
edgy arrow
you don’t need that much gold to get all the meta currency you’re offered
waxen relic
chaos has separate for gold and meta
gaunt fiber
Yes you don't need that much gold
and JS won't make a difference for Charon's shop imo
edgy arrow
^
gaunt fiber
if you want that sweet titan blood or diamond
halcyon flame
screw you i'm gonna turn on js3 anyways to get more money to spend at styx and then die in elysium
fallow stream
With js3 you get trapped in a loop of really needing Charon well boosts to manage the additional enemies.
You have to really think about your approach to the run and consider taking the hourglass
Amongst other things.
agile obsidian
But with convenience fee lol
fallow stream
if you want that sweet titan blood or diamond
And then there are those of us who have maxed everything and purchased all renovations 🤣
My only goal now is to master Hades on EM4, then get back to heat 40+ runs
gaunt fiber
I suggest you try FO2 EM4 but no HL
wanton plover
certain adds on em4 just ruin my day
gaunt fiber
it's nice to practice
wanton plover
the sneak just wrecks me
fallow stream
I suggest you try FO2 EM4 but no HL
That's basically what I do
FO2
LC2
TD2
MM
EM4
and something I can't remember
Oh, CF1
fallow stream
the sneak just wrecks me
Butterfly balls are my kryptonite. They interrupt my attack flow too much
With Mega Gorgon head being a close 2nd
halcyon flame
nah megagorgon is dire soul catcher on steroids
they even get the same ability in mm
doesn't help that you face megagorgon earlier
onyx venture
Power Couple has definitely ended multiple runs for me, can't say the same about Dire Soulcatcher
fallow stream
No, I'm talking the adds Hades brings in to the fight on EM4
onyx venture
Ah, gotcha
agile obsidian
at what heat should I put on stubborn defiance?
wanton plover
whenever you have LC4
fallow stream
I only use SD at all heats
wanton plover
it’s about that specific pact nmot the total heat
fallow stream
So I'm the wrong one to ask
agile obsidian
whenever you have LC4
ok
wanton plover
glad to help :)
halcyon flame
stubborn defiance works best at like lc3/lc4
no need to really mention lc3 though since at that point you definitely might as well be on lc4 instead
fallow stream
I strongly encourage players to avoid LC4.
It eliminates very good boons such as Strong drink from helping you
agile obsidian
So for like 32 heat what lc should I put on
fallow stream
LC2 or 3
wintry berry
With SD, you just have to get used to only have 30% of total hp
fallow stream
With SD, you just have to get used to only have 30% of total hp
Not true
Stubborn roots
wintry berry
Good meme
wanton plover
i love stubborn roots. who would not want 400obols
fallow stream
That duo has saved me a great many times
halcyon flame
400 obols is super nice to have on cf2
i mean yeah natural regen is nice but you might as well use last stand
agile obsidian
Is hestia a good 32 heat option?
fallow stream
Hestia is a good option. Period.
agile obsidian
ok
wanton plover
yes
wintry berry
It is
wanton plover
the combo is
fallow stream
It is one of the hardest hitting weapons
wanton plover
shoot reload and special
halcyon flame
hestia's playstyle could be good with hl5 in that you basically need to be far away at all times
agile obsidian
Yeah and should I take aphro or arty on attack
halcyon flame
arty
wanton plover
art
agile obsidian
ok
fallow stream
Unless you're me...
agile obsidian
And try and aim for deadly reversal?
wintry berry
I don't advise using JS with Hestia for first uses
fallow stream
And try and aim for deadly reversal?
No. Heart rend
agile obsidian
I don't advise using JS with Hestia for first uses
What CP should I use
agile obsidian
No. Heart rend
I feel like athena on the dash I would be deflecting a lot and that extra crit chance is pretty good
fallow stream
Hestia clears so fast you won't have anything to deflect
agile obsidian
ok
So aphro special and arty attack
And i guess try and aim for athena dash for safety?
fallow stream
I like splash dash on the gun
waxen relic
it is more of a hard to get for deadly reversal i'd say
fallow stream
Maintains distance
halcyon flame
athena dash and deadly reversal forces you to not maintain distance to use it effectively
night forge
hl5 fo2 power couple is deadly
night forge
just died to em rip
agile obsidian
Ive been try to do so many speedruns that FO2 isnt that much of a problem for me anymore so I think Im just going to take FO in this for 3 heat
fallow stream
Ive been try to do so many speedruns that FO2 isnt that much of a problem for me...
My personal opinion is that everyone should have FO2 turned on permanently
wintry berry
You can lower HL at 32 if you have FO2
wanton plover
hestia is one of the safest aspects and easiest to take hl
fallow stream
FO2 is free heat
agile obsidian
FO2 was insanely hard at the start but now it isnt that bad
fallow stream
You get used to it
Then when you turn it off, it feels like you're cheating and you want to turn it back on
agile obsidian
After turning FO off for one run I realized how slow hades skulls move
Like its in slow motion
fallow stream
@agile obsidian
Calculated risk is a duo that will help you stop relying on divine dash.
Use it so that you can see what the benefits of other dashes are without ending your run
fallow stream
It's what I used to wean myself off divine dash
fallow stream
Passion dash is highly underrated for certain weapons
It allows more flexibility for the boons you select on attack and special if you learn to use it.
Dying lament is also underrated for the same reason
agile obsidian
I like dying lament
fallow stream
The only dash I don't really like is drunken dash
fallow stream
If they changed it to work like passion dash, triggering where you land instead of behind you, I'd find it more useful
mossy zinc
Drunken Dash applies 3 stacks, so every +1 Hangover damage becomes +24 damage over 4 seconds.
Poms on Hangover are really really good.
mossy zinc
not saying it’d be useless, it’s just diminishing returns
Why would it be diminishing? I would rather say it's the opposite: every +1 Dash is better than the previous.
halcyon flame
drunken dash sucks but it does have a tiny bit of utility
agile obsidian
Splash dash is my favorite
halcyon flame
if you're using fists you can easily use it to proc p.status
gaunt fiber
I really like drunken dash I don't understand the hate
mossy zinc
It's not just Dash boons, getting more Dashes allows you to position yourself in ways you couldn't before and without putting your Dashes on cooldown.
fallow stream
I'm not saying it's bad @gaunt fiber just saying it's my least favourite
gaunt fiber
Oh ok
fallow stream
I find it the toughest to utilize consistently, and I get trapped into doing stupid things outside of my usual strategy to make it work
mossy zinc
I really like drunken dash I don't understand the hate
I think one factor is that people tend to think it's just one stack per Dash.
gaunt fiber
I guess yeah "oh it's 2 base damage it's trash"
agile obsidian
This is my opinion but I feel all of dio's core boons(outside cast and call) are very underwhelming
gaunt fiber
Hangover is really fun to play with
agile obsidian
But thats my opinion and you can like it if you want
fallow stream
Hangover is amazing on the right weapon
agile obsidian
Hangover is really fun to play with
I tried a hangover chiron build and it was sooo slow
Almost hit td2
gaunt fiber
Be sure to hit the whole room 
fallow stream
Drunken fists is hilarious
mossy zinc
agile obsidian
Had 20 seconds left on the timer
agile obsidian
Well thats kinda the point of chiron right
gaunt fiber
Not with hangover
agile obsidian
So why would I take chiron?
wintry berry
You let hangover tick for damage
gaunt fiber
Because it's still very powerful and allows the Eternal Rose start
agile obsidian
Dio special is incredible on rama
That is the only good use i've found of hangover
Rama hangover is fun and good
fallow stream
Also excellent on fists
mossy zinc
With Low Tolerance Chiron, you want to spread Hangover as much as possible while dealing damage with your Heartbreak Strike. You don't want to focus on single enemies, your Hangover will take care of things.
agile obsidian
So why shouldn't I take zag bow or something?
gaunt fiber
Why should not you take Guan Yu?
mossy zinc
Because that can't apply 8 stacks of Hangover so easily.
agile obsidian
Hey I love guan yu
mossy zinc
Hangover DPS is great on Chiron.
fallow stream
I still haven't tried my Zeus shield tempest flourish/seastorm build yet.
I keep forgetting
gaunt fiber
You stack very quickly, low tolerance is really nice to have too
mossy zinc
You basically want only Attack hammers, but put almost all of your poms on Drunken Flourish.
Piercing Volley is nice, though.
agile obsidian
I like point blank shot
For most bow hammers
And for chiron normally I try and get relentless volley
mossy zinc
Relentless Volley does nothing for your Hangover.
8 stacks is the limit. No point in getting more arrows.
fallow stream
Twin shot. Always.
mossy zinc
Twin Shot is amazing wut.
agile obsidian
On chiron?
fallow stream
Not with Dio on special for the strategy nyaa is talking about
gaunt fiber
Why would it be bad?
fallow stream
Twin shot is never bad
mossy zinc
Double base damage, two hits.
gaunt fiber
it's like +100% on attack
agile obsidian
I like to keep my range with chiron
mossy zinc
It's better than +100% Attack damage.
fallow stream
It allows you to break through armour if there's a little bit left
It's a huuuuge advantage
mossy zinc
You just said you take Point-Blank Shot.
agile obsidian
Also it feels like it charges up slower
gaunt fiber
Yeah two hits is huge
mossy zinc
Power Shot charges just as fast.
agile obsidian
huh doesnt feel like that for me
sly remnant
Anything that effectively says give more instances of X damage source is an autopick
Instances > plus
agile obsidian
I love twin and prioritize it especially in rama runs but I dont love it in chiron
mossy zinc
Except for Serrated Point if you already have Flurry Jab.
sly remnant
Good call. The one exception in the game
fallow stream
Serrated point is weird. In theory it should be amazing, but I generally cancel out my dash and don't get all the hits in
If I wait for the hits to land I expose myself
sly remnant
Those are some hot takes manthro
gaunt fiber
My spear does not have an attack move unfortunately
mossy zinc
You kind of have to main spear to be truly comfortable with Serrated Point.
fallow stream
Also... For pretty much every bow I take twin shot and chain shot
edgy arrow
Why would it be diminishing? I would rather say it's the opposite: every +1 Dash...
this sounds like some kind of ancient wisdom style quote i’m not even supposed to understand
as a result i kinda wanna believe it even tho i have no idea why
fallow stream
My spear does not have an attack move unfortunately
I understand. I'm working on my spear skills
I used to loathe it
Now I love it
mossy zinc
You should watch some of Astaos's Guan Yu runs sometime. I taught him everything I know. 
agile obsidian
GY attack does legitimately suck tho
edgy arrow
Astaos lowkey pretty good at the game
agile obsidian
You should watch some of Astaos's Guan Yu runs sometime. I taught him everything...
Is it special spam or legitimately using attack lol
fallow stream
You should watch some of Astaos's Guan Yu runs sometime. I taught him everything...
So... White belt.. 🤭
Jk
Just foolin. I have much respect for the players on here
mossy zinc
Special > Cast > Dash-Strike x2 for optimal DPS usually.
But you want to adjust to the hammers you have etc.
Spin builds can be very strong.
edgy arrow
yeah like if you have charged skewer, just use special
mossy zinc
No, you'd still Dash-Strike if you want to optimize your damage.
mossy zinc
But you can get away with doing literally nothing but Special when you have Charged Skewer.
agile obsidian
My GY runs are charged skewer with pierced butterfly
mossy zinc
Well, you might never see Charged Skewer in your run.
agile obsidian
Normally get charged in asphodel or elysium, tartarus if im very lucky
fallow stream
Is it possible to get flurry shot with the bow if you already have twin shot?
agile obsidian
Is it possible to get flurry shot with the bow if you already have twin shot?
yep
fallow stream
I've never seen it pop up
edgy arrow
yeah flurry+twin is a classic
edgy arrow
i don’t like it personally; bow feels weird without powershots
edgy arrow
it’s not the worst, but it’s not the best either
new players often like it, but once you’re experienced with the dash strike powershot rhythm of bow you’ll get better results with other combos
agile obsidian
Yeah I love powershotting
bronze viper
Honestly I think Twin + Flurry on zag bow is one of the strongest things you can do in the game
It's everything up to that point though lol
edgy arrow
is it really better than like, twin+perfect or twin+point blank?
idk, guess i’m no bow expert
bronze viper
It's a lot more flexible without having to power shot. You also get access to stun locks
bronze viper
It matters a lot for chariots and basically everything in elysium lol
edgy arrow
i just think flurry feels weird at this point i guess
bronze viper
It does
edgy arrow
need to rewire my brain mid bow run
bronze viper
I'm not singing it's praises that hard, just saying that combo in a vacuum is nuts
The damage output is too poo to speculatively take Flurry first though, so it rarely comes up
edgy arrow
fair enough
i’ll have to try it out again if i get the chance
certainly haven’t used it in a while
mossy zinc
this sounds like some kind of ancient wisdom style quote i’m not even *supposed*...
Not to scale. https://imgur.com/a/kBU7nSc
Does that help?
fallow stream
I'm not singing it's praises that hard, just saying that combo in a vacuum is nu...
I've seen players literally facetank Hades through all 3 phases with that and Aphro legendary
Didn't move once. Just stood there
edgy arrow
Does that help?
how does this prove that more dashes are better the more dashes you have tho
bronze viper
Because it's a graphic
edgy arrow
all it proves is that the more dashes you have, the faster you go
mossy zinc
You never made an argument to begin with lol.
It shows you that more dashes allow you to position yourself in ways that you couldn't before.
edgy arrow
yeah cause i had no graphics that’s why
yeah but those potential positions are increasingly niche in usefulness and/or increasingly difficult to make use of in the moment
mossy zinc
What? No? 5 dashes will let you move essentially anywhere you want on the screen freely. 6 dashes will let you do that even more easily while still giving you extra dashes to i-frame anything after that.
gaunt fiber
Casting with GY is especially strong in Tartarus
edgy arrow
how often are you actually doing that tho
gaunt fiber
Then it falls off a bit
edgy arrow
like, you’re either orders of magnitude better at the game than me or you’re only using all 6 of those dashes occasionally
mossy zinc
If you watch my 52 Beowulf, I certainly abuse all of my extra dashes from Epic Greatest Reflex.
gaunt fiber
What's the debate? More dash is good?
mossy zinc
It's not just the fact that 4 dashes give me more range than 3, it's also the fact that I can go wherever I would be able to with 3 dashes, but I also have one more Dash to i-frame anything and.
fallow stream
how often are you actually doing that tho
Try it with Ares dash
You could finish a run with no weapon
edgy arrow
i mean, i’m not saying they’re not useful
fallow stream
Same with Zeus
mossy zinc
What's the debate? More dash is good? <:squirtyay:456913427550699552>
He thinks more dashes have diminishing returns.
edgy arrow
they’re 100% useful
agile obsidian
Ive gotten 6 dashes once with epic hermes boon and then eurydice increased it rarity
It was fun
agile obsidian
It it was epic greatest reflex
edgy arrow
but like, going from 1 to 2 dashes is massive
agile obsidian
Yeah I did a no mirror run 2 days ago and greatest reflex save me
edgy arrow
there’s no way going from 5 to 6 dashes is nearly as impactful, even if it is nice
agile obsidian
Yeah I was trying to lvl up my attack and gambled and got dash upgraded
bronze viper
I think more dashes definitely have diminishing returns but not by like some serious margin. You can also do some pretty disrespectul things with 4/5 dashes like clearing entire screens of urns with Divine/Tidal dash
strange rapids
I think more dashes definitely have diminishing returns but not by like some ser...
agree
bronze viper
Or have acceptable dps with Nemesis (zing)
edgy arrow
Nemesis is maybe a good example of weapon where extra dashes don’t really have diminishing returns if you’re using it well
fallow stream
I'm gonna take heat for this, but I always take refreshing nectar from Eurydice
edgy arrow
But Nyaanyaa was saying that extra dashes have increasing benefit the more you have, and i simply cannot understand that
bronze viper
I'm gonna take heat for this, but I always take refreshing nectar from Eurydice
Nah, it's good. I don't always take it but if I'm doing Hangover or ME I generally end up taking it to gain advantage on my Duo rolls
mossy zinc
It's quite similar to Dodge chance. Just think about how entirely broken not having a Dash cooldown would be.
edgy arrow
that would indeed be broken
strange rapids
surely we can agree that hypothetically going from 20 to 21 dashes is less impactful than 2 to 3