Commissioner lol
#h1-high-heat-strategies
rain sedge
I had to google that
but it's great that we have you to help our spreadsheeting needs ❤️
shy plinth
💙
rain sedge
made the community more alive with an up-to-date spreadsheet
shy plinth
Tbh I just love talkin Hades and y'all are smart
Yeah manual entry is the devil
Automation is where it's at
rain sedge
the programmer in me agrees
.
mossy zinc
That's exactly what a bot pretending to be a human would say.
vital grove
Everyone is a bot.
true fable
ok hera bow athena cast again
backstabs only if you HIT the enemy with the initial hera arrow
shy plinth
Ohhhh
Because it launches where it lands
So it pops on top of the enemy and hits in the back
Assuming they don't move
rain sedge
backstabs only if you HIT the enemy with the initial hera arrow
it doesnt always backstab even if I hit the enemy with the arrow
rain sedge
So it pops on top of the enemy and hits in the back
this seems to be what's going on tbh
next wyvern
what is the best build for Eris Rail?
next wyvern
Zeus Demi duo i assumned?
shy plinth
No you don't need to worry about reapplying jolted with Eris
You're attacking so much
next wyvern
oh really so i only need to care about Attacking?
shy plinth
Zeus attack is the important part, meta generally shifts towards poseidon on special and dash so you can get sea storm
shy gulch
yeah no i can see the reasoning
next wyvern
i see
rain sedge
are you sure youre hitting them?
very
rain sedge
though imo there might be some merit in dio attack
whoa what is this
plain shuttle
got past asphodel
rain sedge
sir I do not approve this blasphemy even from mr successful strimmer
vital grove
For the challenge, first come first serve for each heat or speed update?
shy plinth
Yeah, rules are on the page
It's for everyone so we want to try to avoid jumping by big numbers
But once you set a new heat/speed, just pop it on there
vital grove
Any aspect?
shy plinth
Yeah
halcyon flame
does the hourglass apply to patty's items?
waxen relic
Nope
halcyon flame
damn well there goes the hope of getting a touch of styx dark from patty and it out-lasting the entirety of styx 😔
halcyon flame
i mean luckily my tosd lasted through styx because i got a 2-sack
unfortunately it wasn't very worthwhile because i beat dad first try without using an sd because of weak 
gaunt fiber
im a perfectly human human
Same here
vital grove
Greetings, fellow humans
Shall we consume our daily intake of calories in a group activity?
edgy arrow
last i checked, hades was still a single player game
halcyon flame
who says you can't do it with achilles
halcyon flame
tips for 32 heat with all weapons besides bow 
i've decided i wanna do 32 heat with all weapons
mossy zinc
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3.
Owl Pendant in either Tartarus or Asphodel to get extra DDs from Lady Athena.
rain sedge
I prefer DC2 instead of CF2 for some weapons like rail and fist, but that's pretty much the easiest one
FO0 makes things quite trivial
halcyon flame
dc2 is definitely better than cf2, especially later on when enemies are already tanky and would only end up becoming absolute sponges thanks to the 30% health increase
which sword aspect is best for 32 heat? arthur?
mossy zinc
You're confusing CF with CP.
CF is Convenience Fee.
I would definitely say Excalibur is the easiest, yeah. You just have so much eHP.
halcyon flame
i'd definitely have to hope patty gives me a touch of styx again and it lasts through styx
what's the best 32 heat build for arthur in particular?
for fists i'm thinking of going for me and rail i'll just do zeus or poseidon
mossy zinc
No idea about best. Heartbreak Strike into Zeus' Aid and Smoldering Air works super well.
gaunt fiber
Heart Rend all in
halcyon flame
heartbreak flourish + empty inside + broken resolve are gonna be essential
mossy zinc
I wouldn't go for Merciful End on Malphon unless I happen to RNG into it. It's strong, but it's not a very reliable strategy because it requires 4 specific boons.
halcyon flame
i definitely should have also invested my titan blood into arthur and not hera in this case
mossy zinc
No, you would want Passion Dash over Heartbreak Flourish for Heart Rend Excalibur.
gaunt fiber
Upgrading Arthur does not do much
halcyon flame
Upgrading Arthur does not do much
but.... 40% damage reduction
mossy zinc
It does a whole lot, but not in terms of DPS.
gaunt fiber
I guess if you're using special yeah
It's good for projectiles tho
But I like the slow more than damage reduction
halcyon flame
my main strat for this is playing super defensively and avoiding damage absolutely whenever i can, and if i can't do that then i can at least minimize it
gaunt fiber
I'd say optimal Arthur barely uses special hence the upgrade does not do much
But you could get your way with damage reduction with like a ehp build
Yeah but playing super defensively is going to make you take damage ultimately. Kill your enemies fast and they've got less time to damage you
halcyon flame
i could just try out a heart rend build and hope i get tosd from patty
gaunt fiber
But the heard rend build is a bit risky for sure
you could start divine dash and build around Heartbreak strike
I'm sure it would work
mossy zinc
You still get to constantly apply Weak, so it's not really very risky.
gaunt fiber
Yeah but you apply it while dashing in your enemies lol
halcyon flame
if i can just dash around the enemy to apply weak then that kinda crosses out broken resolve
gaunt fiber
Takes a bit of practice at least
halcyon flame
gonna take some practice, yeah
since i'm used to treating arthur as a mid-range weapon
mossy zinc
You still start with 150 HP regardless, which is 214 eHP with Weak.
Even without the Holy Aura.
But there's no need to rush it if you just play to clear. Plenty of opportunties to just drop Holy Aura and use it to your advantage.
halcyon flame
being able to dash during the animation is gonna help with using it effectively
emphasis on "effectively" because i'm most certainly not used to such high temp and i feel that i'm forced to play to the best of my ability
gaunt fiber
Just don't take DC in your pact
next wyvern
what kind of Fist build works well in high heat?
mossy zinc
Tbh the easiest build, though, for 32 is just anything you want to base your build around in Tartarus and then Owl Pendant in Asphodel for DDs and Divine Dash.
Divine Strike and Lightning Strike are both super good on Malphon.
halcyon flame
it's extremely convenient that one of the prereqs for divine dds is divine dash
mossy zinc
Divine Strike + Deadly Flourish for Deadly Reversal and Support Fire.
vital grove
If you're fast and don't super care about which Gods you see, Plume Arthur is fun on 32
Good dodge on top of Arthur's boosts is NICE
mossy zinc
Yeah, I like just building for ridiculous eHP on Excalibur.
halcyon flame
lambent forces me to play aggressivly
which tends to involve getting hit
which is a big no-no because i can't heal
vital grove
Thing is you also pick up Ruthless for this
vital grove
Ruthless and Plume, if you can get one of the dodge boons from Hermes is huuuge
Even without it it's still a loooot of dodge
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air, Second Wind, add Ruthless Reflex and Abyssal Blood etc.
You can go into the Hades fight with like 3k eHP or something.
mossy zinc
Yep!
vital grove
This is also where mettle can be huge
next wyvern
which aspect for fist is easiest to use and win?
vital grove
Demeter
agile obsidian
Demeter ME
next wyvern
ah
sullen minnow
Trying to build a 32 heat run up with zag fists. Full Mr. Anderson build, plume and all. Have made hades but haven’t cleared him yet. Feel like plume is tapering off for me in later rooms, not clearing them fast as I need to. Suggestions for heat settings? Is running Ruthless and Gitting Gud something I need to be thinking about?
mossy zinc
If you've been to Hades, just keep doing what you're doing. It's obviously working, just gotta clean up the fight.
If you're using the Lambent Plume, you should also use TD3.
halcyon flame
and also hope patty shows up and gives you the touch of styx
seriously it's so good especially if it lasts through styx lmao
sullen minnow
Ok. I’m spending heat on things that may not be complimentary to TD like running the 2 free hits pact among some other things like Routine inspection trying to scrape heat together. I’m trying to avoid touching hard labor and -healing as much as I can. Still running DDs too. Do you think I would see results out of trying to optimize around SD and taking some of my run back taking things like RI off?
Or are fists considered too hazardous for +100% and no healing outside of SD
sullen minnow
Also the pact that adds enemies to encounters, bad td3 choice at even one stack?
stiff aurora
There is a pinned comment with a good starting point for a heat setup
edgy arrow
fists can definitely handle HL5 and LC4
sullen minnow
Yeah I get it @edgy arrow I feel underpowered. Just feels like it hurts actively than some other things
edgy arrow
particularly if you're running FO0
sullen minnow
But that’s why I’m here, to broaden my thinking
mossy zinc
I would do HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3 at 32 with Malphon. Maybe HL0 CF1 FO2.
sullen minnow
I’m trying to keep fo1 on to aid td3 as a counterbalance
Ok @mossy zinc , thank you much!
mossy zinc
Actually, probably HL2 EM2 FO2 over HL0 CF1 FO2.
FO2 EM3 is pretty brutal for Malphon.
shy gulch
yeah id second nyaanyaa's recs
edgy arrow
just don't take FO honestly
shy gulch
mess around w the level of HL and FO you can handle
gaunt fiber
The more FO the faster the game, the easier is TD3 
sullen minnow
Yeah I feel like dc2 is a gamble unless you get Zeus
shy gulch
yea dont do dc2
vital grove
Asterius spinning is awful for Zag fist on FO2
shy gulch
its painful without zeus attack
mossy zinc
FO2 is fine on Malphon imo, you'll just want to avoid EM3 if you take FO2.
sullen minnow
Realistically though if I can buy 2 heat and just lock in the keepsake I already wanted, isn’t that a decent trade then?
Cause I def want to build in Zeus attack
Or am I flirting with danger even still there
mossy zinc
You're better off putting the 2 Heat somewhere else.
sullen minnow
Ok
vital grove
DC2 is free heat if you're going Zeus attack
sullen minnow
I’ll experiment with it
mossy zinc
No such thing as free Heat except TD1.
sullen minnow
I do like the idea of the 2 heat theoretically costing me less than it would placed elsewhere
edgy arrow
No such thing as free Heat except TD1.
this
sullen minnow
But td3 is td3
edgy arrow
and even TD1 isn't free for everyone
edgy arrow
not really
gaunt fiber
Plume does not make you go fast lol
edgy arrow
just because you can do it consistently doesn't mean its free
sullen minnow
I’ve struggled with it specifically. But clearly I’m building something wrong lol
edgy arrow
like, i can prolly streak beo 40 but that doesn't mean all that heat is free
sullen minnow
What does making the best of it mean to you @vital grove ?
I’m interested to listen
vital grove
Point is if you're doing Plume speed TD3 is there
sullen minnow
What sorts of things go into making the best of it in your mind?
vital grove
Like if you're consistently getting every room clear in Plume time, you'll clear before TD3 kills you almost certainly
edgy arrow
that's like saying "if you never get hit, HL5 is free"
mossy zinc
TD3 affects what rooms you pick and what risks you take.
shy gulch
plume doesnt actually help you go fast so it can get difficult
and it also means that more than 3 sack will likely kill your run
depending on other pacts, more than a 2 sack
sullen minnow
TD3 affects what rooms you pick and what risks you take.
That’s why I don’t like it 😦 hate having to make choices for speed rather than gameplay. But do what you must
mossy zinc
And whether you open any Troves.
vital grove
Ah yes, that's true
TD3 to me means always midshop, almost always chaos, always friend room, no trove
shy gulch
yeah basically
gaunt fiber
NPCs are huge anyway
shy gulch
story rooms you usually want anyways
sullen minnow
I know 😭
shy gulch
since they're awesome
sullen minnow
I feel like I’m playing with a gun in my back
gaunt fiber
story rooms you usually want anyways
sullen minnow
Ehhhh I shall git gud. I’m with you, I can already hack td2 with my eyes closed. Td3 just seems like such a big difficulty spike for me, but I need to learn to be better
sullen minnow
If it was 5:30 it would be all the difference in the world
shy gulch
TD3 is fairly difficult especially when you cant create a build by using god keepsakes
sullen minnow
But 5m is brutal sometimes
vital grove
Depends on the aspect I guess
sullen minnow
And the player. Need to improve myself before I blame my tools
vital grove
I had a 40 Heat Eris time out just barely on a 5 sack and I am not super fast or anything
sullen minnow
Thanks all for the advice. I shall try to implement
sullen minnow
Sharpen Thyself
vital grove
Hesitation is defeat.
shy gulch
just get good LUL
sullen minnow
Inspirational quote
mossy zinc
Every death is a learning moment.
That's what I told my therapist. 
vital grove
What was their response?
sullen minnow
Been in extreme sports long, have you?
gaunt fiber
Hesitation is defeat.
vital grove
It's sake
mossy zinc
"Please don't talk about your victims that way."
vital grove
Cool, cool
mossy zinc
Thank you. 
true fable
i dont always take chaos on TD3
with AP2 and no rerolls you are inviting master chaos to brick your run
vital grove
Circumstances call for caution
mossy zinc
I frequently take free boons over mid shop in Tartarus and Asphodel.
Especially with CF2.
true fable
yee
gaunt fiber
mid shop has a chance for 300 golds tho
mossy zinc
Maybe if I'd done the fight more than like 4 times lol.
stiff aurora
Isn't charon a huge timesink anyway? It seems like a good way to ruin your run even if you manage it without loosing too much hp
Assuming td3
mossy zinc
Yeah, he was memeing.
stiff aurora
Hoe long does the charon fight take anyway?
edgy arrow
it is done
true fable
yeah astaos is trying to make a funny
edgy arrow
true fable
1 minute optimally IMO
edgy arrow
prolly never playing arthur again lmao
gaunt fiber
yeah astaos is trying to make a funny
Sticks, stones, etc.
true fable
LOL
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/755802335112069312/806217250755182612/Art...
Congratulations!
edgy arrow
thanks!
pretty sure this one was about as hard as all my other 40s combined
got 2 DDs from athena and you can bet i needed them both
shy gulch
the prophet of arthur
edgy arrow
it wasn’t the worst but i completely flubbed Hades fight because of it
luckily i had two extra DDs
edgy arrow
What's left?
Still Zag sword, Nemesis and Gilgamesh
shy gulch
G I L G A M E S H
edgy arrow
lol i’ll try i guess
i did like 10 gilg runs in a row a couple days ago and didn’t get out of tartarus
it maybe doesn’t help that i’m trying to do it without ME
vital grove
Where that image of ap2 ME in Tartarus
edgy arrow
i mean, yeah gp it’s not likely to help me get out of tartarus
rain sedge
it maybe doesn’t help that i’m trying to do it without ME
I can tell you what I've tried if you think it'll help?
but king or retrash will probably have better suggestions on how to make it least painful as possible
edgy arrow
any tips you have can’t hurt
rain sedge
so I tried a bunch of things
blade dash was somewhat good, but in the end it felt like a dangerous gameplay
and it needs some boons to start going
and although it opens up some doom shenanigans, you are locked out of efficiently using ME because you can't get divine dash
tidal dash was more promising, but knocking enemies away from you is the opposite of what you want to do and it gets awkward
both have the same problem of you're using your dash offensively as your main damage source, and you run out of dashes for when you need it defensively
I tried zeus attack with dash strike combo, but it doesnt work because it's too slow
vital grove
Have you tried Artemis attack
rain sedge
I tried doom special stuff, but applying the maim is dangerous and difficult
vital grove
And weak on special or dash
rain sedge
and it's a lot of extra damage at bosses
I tried some attack-centric builds with aphro and arty, but the problem is that the dash strike is 20 base damage
and you have to stand still to do the big chunky attack
and at 40 heat that's just not always feasible
anyway, I ended up resetting for ME a lot, and it was the worst 40 by far
hope that's useful @edgy arrow
you might just make a lot of things that didn't work for me work for you
but that's the learnings that I got
rain sedge
astaos has this curse of longing idea, but putting special on doom never worked for me
edgy arrow
did you get the clear with ME in the end?
daring hedge
zeus dash stack
rain sedge
I cleared with ME yeah
oh yeah king did 50 with zeus dash
but he did get splitting bolt out of tartarus
so....
edgy arrow
nice lmao
daring hedge
that run was ridiculous
edgy arrow
i can definitely see the offensive dash stuff working, but based on how much difficulty i was having just getting past meg i’ve been thinking i might be incapable of doing this without divine dash
rain sedge
that is exactly the conclusion I come to
I mean even king almost died to meg with splitting bolt, but that's 50
daring hedge
yeah dashing across her bullet hell move really hurt
but i needed to kill her fast because of TD3
rain sedge
oh I also strapped antos instead of battie just to burst furies' last phase
and I didn't do ruthless reflex, but I think I should've
edgy arrow
yeah i’ve been leaning that way
daring hedge
50% damage on everything and 50% dodge is massive
edgy arrow
3 dashes is mostly what i’m likely to use anyway 90% of the time
daring hedge
part of why that zeus dash build worked was because all those zeus elements were boosted so often
rain sedge
I think I didn't do it because I was reserved for ME fishing and 1 more dash is 1 more ME proc
but I also think that was the wrong decision
I was just kinda desperate at that point
edgy arrow
well +50% damage on ME isn’t as good as +50% damage on lightning
since the first has impending
and the latter has no other source of +% damage
daring hedge
the fact that gilga has maim also lends itself towards offensive dash builds
25% global or 50% with rending claws
edgy arrow
is rending claws good?
daring hedge
yes, i definitely think so
edgy arrow
i’m never sure whether i should lean into the maim or mostly avoid it
daring hedge
doubling your maim bonus and adding a 30% slow
rain sedge
rending claws was the only reason I'd ever use maim
and some desperate stalling tactics
daring hedge
you want to use even base maim with offensive dash since it really is one of the few ways to boost it
rain sedge
like, here's my experience with maim
agile obsidian
Maim is a very scary thing
rain sedge
try to dash-upper --> it doesnt work --> try again --> eat damage --> lose DD --> repeat
also it boost enemy damage by 50%
that puts you on one shot territory on tartarus
edgy arrow
lol i always forget it needs to be a dash upper for some reason
rain sedge
that's 1 meg whip for your DD btw
edgy arrow
oof
daring hedge
lol i did lose my SD in that exact way
agile obsidian
Rending claw is good for trying to do a maim based rujj
rain sedge
which is pretty damn hard to dodge if youre using dashes offensively
agile obsidian
*run
rain sedge
like if you're actually good at the game and can dodge, sure
agile obsidian
Honestly gilgamesh is only good for the extra dashes
rain sedge
HL5 doesnt matter if you dont get hit, it's the same mentality
but without rending claw I didn't use maim until I get ME
anyway gilga super stinky
daring hedge
i think maim is really good but the damage could happen either a little faster or spread over time, and the +50% to YOU is... really harsh
rain sedge
is the summary of my long story
edgy arrow
maim feels most useful in bosses, but those are also often the places the extra damage hurts me the most
hence my mixed feelings
yeah agreed +50% is massive
daring hedge
like, i'm not sure why it felt needed to punish gilga that hard
edgy arrow
is that additive with HL or multiplicative?
daring hedge
yeah
rain sedge
while eris can get its boost with absolutely no punishment
I knew this is coming
daring hedge
i took one hit in the hades fight, and it was a maim boosted spin that did 100 damage
daring hedge
i bring up eris specifically though because
global damage
like maim
but maim has a punishment attached, while it's already lower anyways
agile obsidian
Yes eris is amazing
edgy arrow
i don’t think i’ve ever looked at it that way
when you put those two side by side it looks absolutely wild
rain sedge
achilless at least have a downside where you cant refresh it
(amir, why???)
I really do not get that particular design
like not at all
daring hedge
s k i l l c i e l i n g
rain sedge
it's so different than everything else in the game
there's nothing else that behaves that way in this game
no debuff or buff
it's not even a good aspect
edgy arrow
achilles? isn’t it becoming a thing for speedrunners
daring hedge
depends on context because it's insane for speedrunning
agile obsidian
Eris I feel is the best aspect in the game. Rama comes in a close second for me
edgy arrow
so it can’t be that bad
daring hedge
achilles falls off at high heat because it really wants flurry jab and cast scaling while AP becomes a thing
agile obsidian
Idk I never try and speedrun with eris unless I get rocket bomb first room
rain sedge
the aspect isn't good, the hammer is good
rain sedge
semantics but I feel like the distinction should be made
daring hedge
i mean, achilles is considered better than zag spear though because it actually does things
rain sedge
does the buff even affect the chain lightning
daring hedge
zag spear is the true flurry jab vehicle
agile obsidian
Zag spear is kinda bad
rain sedge
I mean zag spear is LITERALLY the worst aspect in the game tho
well. gilga might take that cake but
you get me
edgy arrow
ehhh it’s pretty bad tho
i remember when it came out, i wanted to like it so much
i really gave it a chance
agile obsidian
same
daring hedge
i think gilga is awkward and bizarrely punished when i don't think it deserves that, but not completely bad
agile obsidian
I got a decent time with it but there are so many better weapons
edgy arrow
i guess it’s the awkwardness that gets me more than the lack of power, fair
agile obsidian
Thats pretty much the deal for every hidden aspect
daring hedge
and the buffering for attack queue is way too sticky imo
agile obsidian
But gilga takes the hardest hit
edgy arrow
Thats pretty much the deal for every hidden aspect
except beo i will fight you
daring hedge
i almost always end an encounter with an extra swipe that i didn't even want to do
edgy arrow
load them as you bull rush
agile obsidian
Its not that. Its after you bull rush it takes a second for the casts to unload
rain sedge
gilga would still be a bad weapon even without the maim increased incoming damage
beo ultra stinky, I hated that 40 beo
like so much
agile obsidian
My favorite hidden aspect is rama or lucifer
rain sedge
I think it's the weapon that took 2nd or 3rd most attempts
oh yea rama is the best hidden aspect hands down
agile obsidian
Only problem I have with rama is power shotting
edgy arrow
yeah rama is legit top tier
agile obsidian
It takes way to long
edgy arrow
Only problem I have with rama is power shotting
watch some of Tail’s runs
agile obsidian
Idk I always end up getting hit
Like I got the hammer for powershotting and I always ended up getting hit every time I did it
edgy arrow
same honestly
agile obsidian
I guess if you have enough distance
daring hedge
it definitely makes you plan ahead or buffer power shots in your mind during combat
daring hedge
becomes muscle memory after a while
agile obsidian
I can power shot(I practiced in the courtyard for a while) but always get hit in the fight
agile obsidian
yeah
mossy zinc
Doing Power Shots with Rama is often more a matter of timing, reaction, positioning, and manipulating the enemy AI, but it's not actually so much a matter of keeping your distance from enemies. You proc the enemy's attack, move out of their attack AOE, and then immediately charge your Dash-Strike while the enemy is whiffing to do a Power Shot before your enemy can take their next action.
And ideally that Power Shot is a backstab and lines up some enemies.
fallow stream
That moment when you're playing stubborn defiance, and you walk on lava after killing Lernie to recharge health...
But you forgot you already used your stubborn defiance
mossy zinc
That moment when you're playing stubborn defiance, and you walk on lava after ki...
Welcome back!
fallow stream
I never really left... Lurking for months 😉
mossy zinc
Welcome back to the company of people who speak . . . or type.
gaunt fiber
wait
mossy zinc
If you try to keep your distance too much and charge your shot before they start an attack, it can actually just recreate a situation where you have no time to ever do Power Shots because enemies will keep interrupting you if you try.
gaunt fiber
is the fact that we're getting a new patch means that there is gonna be another leaderboard for speedruns
fallow stream
Playing heat 1 just to go fast does not appeal to me 🤣
mossy zinc
True words. Good to have you back indeed.
daring hedge
is the fact that we're getting a new patch means that there is gonna be another ...
i'm gonna guess probably not
mossy zinc
@fallow stream you should take a look at our latest Hades challenge pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat, though.
daring hedge
the patch that caused the board reset had changes that hugely affected speedruns like dad keepsake and eris change
daring hedge
this one is pretty mild
mossy zinc
But what about all the Gilgamesh speedruns.
They're affected.
Does no one care about Gilgamesh speedruns?
fallow stream
That's a cool challenge @mossy zinc
mossy zinc
Thanks!
daring hedge
fallow stream
I've been having issues re-acclimating myself to EM4 lately.
When I first tried it, I smoked him a bunch of times... And then suddenly... No. Something has changed with my personal timing. Been trying to figure out what is throwing me off
rain sedge
Nvm I'm blind
Nya
Asking a genuine question here
Would you say Regina George from mean girls is your spirit animal?
mossy zinc
@fallow stream so what's your current project?
fallow stream
Right now, just getting myself back into game shape with some heat 25 EM4 runs.
Curse of longing + dire misfortune + passion dash and empty inside is my new favourite build on fists.
You just keep stacking doom endlessly and watch bosses melt in seconds
I actually think it's more effective than merciful end, since you don't really need to apply constant pressure to keep doing huge amounts of damage
mossy zinc
Hmmm interesting. I need to try that.
waxen relic
I'm not entirely sure if it actually happened but i think i just got i-frames from theseus death. Is that a thing?
fallow stream
I am 100% certain family favourites does not provide the bonus it says it does.
I think it's capped at 5% not matter how many dofferent tier 1 boons you have
The difference in damage compared to privileged status is ridiculous
mossy zinc
That would be very easy to test.
fallow stream
I have been trying family fav so that I could have more consistent damage the whole game for a week, bit now that I've switched back to Privileged, it's crazy... There's no way 40% deals that much more damage than 25%
1 of 2 things are happening... Either the bonus isn't triggering, OR the skill itself is worded incorrectly.
It says +5% damage per different god tier 1 boons, but I suspect it may actually be +5% damage per SAME god tier 1 boons
gaunt fiber
It's per olympian god, not boon
fallow stream
Yes, each different god tier 1 boon
That's what I said
If you have all 5 as different Olympians you should get +25%
But it doesn't feel like it
gaunt fiber
I did some speedruns recently
And I feel like 25% is accurate
I'm saying it because I tested my special damage without a boon from Tartarus to Asphodel
(at this point the 25% should be achieved)
zealous glacier
So 32 heat... I've been trying shield with athena as the opening boon, and gun with Artemis as the opening boon.
Gun with crit on Hestia can one shot many enemies and nukes boss. Stacking Athena and defensive boons on the Shield actually got me too Hades one time.
What should I have as the pacts? Because I've been finessing it for maybe 20 runs now and I still can't do it.
gaunt fiber
Pins
zealous glacier
Oh right duh
gaunt fiber
Hestia crit should do it, just check your pact and see what's wrong
zealous glacier
I dash the wrong way usually seems to be what ends me...
zealous glacier
I learnt that and now I dash into the attacks aswell 😂
fallow stream
My rule of thumb is usually one dash through, then one dash at 90°
Assuming I didn't get extra dashes
zealous glacier
In the pins the guide says "Heal with SD?" What's SD stand for?
fallow stream
Stubborn defiance
zealous glacier
Oh the per room rez?
fallow stream
But, interesting thing about EM4... I have yet to make it to Hades with Patroclus Regen buff active
I'm almost certain on em4, it's rigged to force 3x sack minimum
I always use SD.
zealous glacier
I used it once and didn't like, but I guess I can give it another go
fallow stream
You can cheat with it.. sort of
Whenever you get an Athena room, ALWAYS die on purpose
zealous glacier
Also apparently Forced Overtime 2 is not worth it and that's what I've been doing the whole time
fallow stream
Then grab last stand
FO2 is automatic for me. Feels like I'm cheating if I don't turn it on 🤣
But that's just me
But back to the SD "cheat"
IF you lose your SD, you can gain an extra one from last stand and deathless stand... But those ones WON'T regenerate per room.
You can basically still get to Hades with 3x revives on many runs
As long as you only die once in a room
If you're really lucky, chaos will also give you one
zealous glacier
So what mirror/pact combos are people doing? I'm having a hard time figuring that out from the pins.
fallow stream
For 32 heat?
zealous glacier
Yeah
fallow stream
First decision... EM4 or not. It will allow you to avoid some nasty pacts, but it also makes Hades significantly more difficult
gaunt fiber
@zealous glacier #h1-high-heat-strategies message
something like that
avoid DC on Hestia at all costs
zealous glacier
DC?
fallow stream
Not necessary to avoid, its just kinda wasted
gaunt fiber
Damage control, blue heart on enemies
zealous glacier
Oh yeah, that's a no on Hestia for sure
gaunt fiber
Not necessary to avoid, its just kinda wasted
It's absolutely necessary
fallow stream
I've done DC on Hestia, but yeah, it makes things not fun
gaunt fiber
the difference in terms of room clearing, dps/speed is huge
not saying you can't clear ofc
But at 32 you have some space
fallow stream
If you use DC on Hestia, you pretty much must take spread bomb or hazard bomb
fallow stream
Fun combo with Hestia...
Change to one dash on mirror, then take hazard bomb 😉
You think it does big damage? Try it with that!
fallow stream
avoid DC on Hestia at all costs
Ah... I thought you were referring to delta chamber
On my first reply
gaunt fiber
fallow stream
Tried to save face afterwards, lol
gaunt fiber
Delta chamber does not hurt Hestia, it's just does not do anything yeah
it's alright
I'm quite the clown too
fallow stream
At least my reply makes sense in that context now
gaunt fiber
yeah they do
fallow stream
@zealous glacier unless I have no other choice, or I'm going for lightning rod (which is INSANE if you do it right, btw), I tend to avoid Artemis core boons.
I now try to take pressure points instead of core boons from her, as enabling Crit on other Olympians triggers often enough that it outweighs the advantage of taking her core boons.
The only other time I take Artemis core boons are for mirage shot Beowulf builds or Hera bow builds
zealous glacier
Yeah 10% on Pressure Points was my juiciest run
fallow stream
The one weapon where Artemis core boons are almost completely useless (except for dash) is the nemesis blade
daring hedge
nah, you want deadly strike on nemesis actually
gaunt fiber
crit rate is just a number
sullen minnow
I just sacrificed a deer and a boar to artemis out in my back yard and my crit rate has been 100% this whole run
Big brain strats
spring kettle
make sure the deer wasn't sacred to her first
limber anchor
fallow stream
nah, you want deadly strike on nemesis actually
Why?
You already have a massive Crit rate on nemesis. All you do with deadly strike is lower your min/max damage because the attack multiplier on deadly strike sucks
Hunter dash is what you want, not deadly strike
daring hedge
bringing up crit rate to 45% after special and having deadly strike surpass something like heartbreak with additive damage from boons like hunter dash and chaos?
you do want deadly strike on nem
fallow stream
Clean kill works without deadly strike
shy plinth
But more crits = more damage?
fallow stream
Take pressure points instead
shy plinth
Uh
daring hedge
crits are so massive that the extra 15% chance is also massive
gaunt fiber
The more critrate the more valuable t2 boons arty
daring hedge
this isn't even an uncommon take to say deadly strike is what you want on nem
fallow stream
You'll do better damage with any other Olympian on nemesis
daring hedge
lol, no
gaunt fiber
How do you get heart rend then
fallow stream
Deadly flourish
fallow stream
I believe you can also go heart rend with true shot
daring hedge
heart rend is more valuable when you're getting crits more often
hence, deadly strike which also, as i said before, surpasses heartbreak with any additive damage
fallow stream
I've always felt the crit rate is so high that deadly strike was a giant waste on nem. To each their own
daring hedge
not really to each their own, though. like, top nem players will agree that deadly strike is best
gaunt fiber
Lmao
daring hedge
okay then
gaunt fiber
I thought you were a theorycraft person with the mathmaster part
daring hedge
lol
fallow stream
I used to use deadly strike on nem. I changed my viewpoint after many, many runs
It's not like I haven't done it. I stopped using it for a reason
gaunt fiber
The thing is your reason is "I don't like it"
daring hedge
a reason that seems to be "i feel like it's not good" even though, it turns out, it is
gaunt fiber
high five fox
fallow stream
It's not that it's not good, it's that I prefer the advantage of status effects on my attack
While doing literally the same amount of damage
If not more
daring hedge
the whole advantage of status effects angle is new, you didn't really say anything about that before
fallow stream
Common sense
daring hedge
lol?
shy plinth
I don't push heat like a lot of folks in here but I thought FF was generally the way to go
Avoids needing to worry about managing PS uptime, especially in 40-50+ ranges where AP is a problem
spiral island
Haha boonless run
shy plinth
Shackle was/is the strat at a certain point
spiral island
What’s the challenge heat at
fallow stream
I do every run with pom blossom now
daring hedge
"advantage" of status effects is a pretty nebulous argument anyways. if you need the defensive capabilities of weak or chill, sure, do that for nem if it helps. but in terms of optimal damage, deadly strike is going to be on top
shy plinth
The sheet is pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat
spiral island
Oh
daring hedge
last one was 9 heat
shy plinth
HA squad rollin deep
fallow stream
"advantage" of status effects is a pretty nebulous argument anyways. if you need...
Again, when you consider min/max damage over the course of a run, you'll probably do the same total damage over an entire nemesis run with any boon (except ares) on attack
Plus, you get the advantage of status effects
Which is why I don't understand why everyone is enamoured with deadly strike
spiral island
Alright I’m doing boonless 11 heat so I can safely upload it
daring hedge
don't know where you're getting that it would be the same total damage over a run
shy plinth
I'd put out there that if there's communal knowledge being presented that maybe your assumptions aren't quite right
If nothing else, personal preference is what it is but newer players coming in here may not get the right info if it's not stated as preference
fallow stream
don't know where you're getting that it would be the same total damage over a ru...
Ok.. on non Crit hits with nemesis, you're talking a 50% damage modifier vs 200%
Then on Crits, obviously you're maxing way higher
fallow stream
By the end of a run, you're likely doing equivalent total damage with deadly strike or heartbreak strike as a result
spiral island
Yeah
daring hedge
Ok.. on non Crit hits with nemesis, you're talking a 50% damage modifier vs 200%
where are those numbers even coming from
200% is like a heavily, heavily pommed heroic
spiral island
I’m letting a wretch kill me cause I forgot to change up my mirror
daring hedge
at high heat you rarely get to even choose what to pom, not to mention RI prevents you from running god's pride
if anything you can very likely get a common heartbreak anyways
which is just 50%
fallow stream
Pom blossom run helps fix that
daring hedge
running pom blossom is not what i would call a high heat strat man
fallow stream
40
spring kettle
I just use pom blossom if I want to be surprised by which gods I get
Admittedly that run just turned into merciful end anyway
gaunt fiber
Thunder flourish GY is optimal it works at 40
fallow stream
It doesn't matter what boons I get. I make do
daring hedge
sacrificing god control just to maybe get poms on a boon you want sounds like a poor trade to me
fallow stream
If the game throws it at me, I'll make it work
fallow stream
If it gives me what I want, all the better
spring kettle
Pom blossom really isn't optimal and it could just end up pomming divine dash/holy shield
gaunt fiber
It's a meme keepsake
Some uses in speedrun according to some crazy speedrunners
For Poseidon builds mostly
since pomming cast is very important
fallow stream
Pom blossom really isn't optimal and it could just end up pomming divine dash/ho...
And that's exactly why I never take divine dash at the start
I mean, there's ways to manipulate what it hits
I get that certain pacts null some strats
To me, it's like this. I don't have to waste a room or gold on poms. I can attack more of what I want by running with the pom blossom
gaunt fiber
yeah I mean imagine choosing what you wanna pom
Tartarus is especially good for that
Choose your starting boon and usually pom it twice
fallow stream
I feel the perceived disadvantages are offset by that
gaunt fiber
Well, feelings and thoughts are just not facts
fallow stream
The bottom line is this.
If you're running high enough heat to require AP2 and underworld customs, there isn't really a strategy involved, it's about skill and pure rng anyway.
There are 2, maybe 3 actual strategic builds you can follow at that heat and successfully implement them every time
edgy arrow
my last 40 i ended up with level 3 divine dash
and that was without pom blossom
the chances of it hitting stuff you want enough to count, let alone enough to make a difference comparable to using other keepsakes is minimal
fallow stream
I find the vast majority of keepsakes utterly useless, lol.
I have a good strat for forcing pom blossom into the boons I want, and the tier 2 and 3 boons I select are either boons I want to get leveled, or cannot get leveled
shy gulch
so do you start mom pom? like in tart?
fallow stream
Yes
shy gulch
on what weapons
edgy arrow
you don’t have a strategy for actually getting the boons you want tho
shy gulch
and at what heat
fallow stream
Until Styx, where I switch to earring
shy plinth
Meg earring?
fallow stream
I play 25-40 heat, depending on the weapon
fallow stream
Meg earring?
Yes
edgy arrow
this honestly feels like the rarity trap again
edgy arrow
you’re better off having the boons you want, even if they’re common, even if they’re level 1
shy gulch
they try their best
fallow stream
so is there a reasoning ur going mom pom
Yes, it gives me the freedom to choose rooms I want, and spend gold on things other than poms
fallow stream
you’re better off having the boons you want, even if they’re common, even if the...
There is no strategy that guarantees the boons you want, even with keepsakes
shy gulch
i mean
fallow stream
Make do with what you get.
shy gulch
for the core of your build? yeah you can
edgy arrow
^
shy gulch
like 90% of the time you can get the core boons u need w god keepsakes
unless ur runnin AP2 or something
fallow stream
Not really
fallow stream
unless ur runnin AP2 or something
Exactly
edgy arrow
and 90% is a lot better odds than pom blossom gives you
gaunt fiber
Common Arti just straight up isn't good
I think that's mostly right with Arthur given your base damage tho. A common arty special is all I need on a charged skewer build
shy plinth
Are you running ap2 at 40
shy gulch
so you run AP2 at 40 heat?
if ur running AP2 you either force a single god you need and go hard into it, like tail with arty
or just take shackle
fallow stream
The same people saying pom doesn't work for AP2 have the same issue with using keepsakes to "get the boons they want"
shy gulch
and cry
fallow stream
Like I said, there are 2 maybe 3 actual builds you can follow at AP2. I prefer pure rng to see how good I really am
shy gulch
how is shackle not just better then
keeps ur damage at a good place while you have no boons
shy plinth
There are a lot of people here that regularly push and clear 50+, I guess I’m just surprised to hear such forceful proclamations from you when there are documented experiences with better results at odds with what you’re saying
edgy arrow
okay so is this supposed to be an AP2 strat? i thought you were doing this at 40
as an AP2 strat, yeah, just use shackle
shy plinth
60 has been cleared, talking about a 40 strat as though it’s optimal seems kind of hard to justify
shy gulch
shackle kinda stinky ngl but everythings kinda stinky at ap2
fallow stream
and 90% is a lot better odds than pom blossom gives you
After your 1st boon, you are 100% guaranteed to pom your core boon, without spending gold or taking a pom room.
It gives you the freedom of taking more Erebus and chaos rooms, or taking an alternate route, and saving gold for worthwhile purchases
That's why I like the pom blossom
edgy arrow
that’s just the first time tho
fallow stream
60 has been cleared, talking about a 40 strat as though it’s optimal seems kind ...
I really don't care about elitist nonsense like this.
There's always someone who talks this nonsense
shy plinth
Uh
How is it elitist to say that there are people who have done diff things than you that have done better
daring hedge
high heat runners rarely ever go out of their way to nab a pom room over, say, a heart or obols that could work towards an extra boon for UC buffer
it's not like without blossom we're at all limiting our decisions
shy gulch
yeh since we're talking ap2 now, poms stinky at ap2
id rather just save gold for an actual boon
to sell to the altar of UC
fallow stream
high heat runners rarely ever go out of their way to nab a pom room over, say, a...
Right, you can do the same thing with pom blossom, and then get more return if you're forced to sell
edgy arrow
yeah poms just aren’t that necessary compared to other stuff
that’s what it comes down to
shy gulch
that seems like a pretty minimal reward as opposed to things like
shackle, acorn, tooth, etc
daring hedge
the extra obols you get from leveled boons is... minimal to say the least
especially with CF
shy gulch
where the benefit is extremely tangible
fallow stream
Why would I ever take acorn or tooth to start? Lol
gaunt fiber
because fury hard
daring hedge
croven means for elysium and styx
daring hedge
for tooth and acorn
fallow stream
I've already acknowledged that shackle is a perfectly viable Strat
shy gulch
unless ur name is bright and acorn is for asphodel
yeah im questioning why mom pom would have value taking over shackle
in tart
daring hedge
or wriste in hc3
shy plinth
gaunt fiber
unless ur name is bright and acorn is for asphodel
hey it's very viable
shy gulch
ive died to lernie so many times
fallow stream
I've died to the sisters more often than Lernie
edgy arrow
my lernie strat is to use beowulf
shy gulch
yeah ive died to furies a lot too
fallow stream
I find Lernie to be a joke
shy gulch
i just die a lot
gaunt fiber
^
shy gulch
alecto :(
fallow stream
I actually find Meg to be harder than alecto
shy gulch
tho with HS, HL5, FO2 lernie becomes a serious pain
fallow stream
Alecto has huge gaps in her attacks
shy gulch
ye hardest fury seems to be mostly a personal preference ive found
alecto messes with me the most
fallow stream
Fair
shy gulch
whereas im fine with p much all of megs attacks
edgy arrow
most people agree Tisi is easiest
fallow stream
Yeah
edgy arrow
but opinions vary as to whether Meg or Alecto is harder
shy plinth
Alecto phase 4 is just hard to see what’s going on
edgy arrow
Alecto phase 4 is just hard to see what’s going on
my legit strat is to just yolo at her and hope she dies before me
shy plinth
It’s red and then I step on a spike trap
Yeah
Also the strat is not to run into her on a run with HS active
shy gulch
i usually run for my life until the fog goes away
then i continue running for my life while getting 1 attack or so in
my ACTUAL strat is to just use hestia
so furies are ez
fallow stream
my legit strat is to just yolo at her and hope she dies before me
hahahaaaa, that's my Strat against Hades on EM3... Can't do that on EM4
Just facetank him on EM3
edgy arrow
truth lol
shy plinth
Lately I’ve been trying “pick acorn out of force of habit, get butterfly spawns, instantly die”
fallow stream
The only add that screws me up is the damn butterfly ball
With certain weapons, if you don't have sturdy it completely disrupts your flow
edgy arrow
Lately I’ve been trying “pick acorn out of force of habit, get butterfly spawns,...
...same
shy gulch
yea butterfly ball is the worst alongside sneak to me
i dont rly play em4 that much anymore tho
shy gulch
tbh i lurk in this channel a lot for someone who hasnt done more than 15 heat in like
3 months
LUL
shy plinth
You have 20 bonus heat from your control scheme
fallow stream
25 is my meme baseline heat
shy gulch
i use a controller now
shy plinth
CONTROLLER
shy gulch
so im just a normal player
shy plinth
Sacrilege
shy gulch
nothing special
fallow stream
If I do less, it feels like I'm cheating
edgy arrow
it’s weird how if you turn some pacts off, it’s actually annoying
fallow stream
I use a gamepad... You're not alone
I cannot turn off FO2
It's just.... Sllllllloooooow
shy gulch
i was doing some runs earlier with FO0 and i kept mistiming hades' spins
edgy arrow
enemies take a ludicrous amount of time to spawn in on FO0
i don’t know how i never noticed it before lmao
daring hedge
enemies take a ludicrous amount of time to spawn in on FO0
blue lernie head slams on FO0 are hilarious
shy plinth
Asterius feels like he’s permanently chilled
gaunt fiber
tbh i lurk in this channel a lot for someone who hasnt done more than 15 heat in...
it's a comfy channel
fallow stream
Dude.... Demeter + numbing sensation for FO0... 🤣
shy plinth
It’s very warm in the winter
gaunt fiber
lofi channel to relax/study to
daring hedge
croven out of conTROL
fallow stream
You can have a smoke while you fight one handed
shy plinth
Nyaa is that you
dire steppe
demeter + heroic killing freeze + numbing sensation + absysal blood + greater consecration arthur
shy plinth
Is that the first time in recorded history that the phrase “heroic killing freeze” has been said
fallow stream
daring hedge
arthur better probably huh
dire steppe
you cant have that and arthur
daring hedge
by a little bit
shy plinth
Nah just swap weapons in elysium ez
daring hedge
you guys didn't unlock the weapon box midbiome?
dire steppe
Dual wield mod exists
edgy arrow
Why can’t we just use the daedalus hammers
bags i flurry jab
dire steppe
Why can’t we just use the daedalus hammers
What do you think world splitter does
gaunt fiber
I want a video that gathers all the Demeter's legendary lines can someone do that
shy plinth
Oh tru
fallow stream
The one problem with slow effects is they sometimes work against you... Because they only slow down walking speed, but not attacks
Your timing gets all discombobulated
daring hedge
not all
for example killing freeze does slow attacks but numbing sensation slows solely movement
fallow stream
Killing freeze is one of my favourite skills
daring hedge
it's super good
fallow stream
Along with stubborn roots
fallow stream
I've actually started to appreciate dying lament and passion dash much more lately
mossy zinc
Nyaa is that you
What about me?
fallow stream
I absolutely despise drunken dash
shy gulch
both dying lament and pash dash go hard
shy plinth
i can just crap talk ppl for no reason and lurk
shy gulch
drunken dash is fine honestly, strips dc fairly well
shy plinth
fallow stream
If it hit where I landed like passion dash, i'd like it much more
mossy zinc
``i can just crap talk ppl for no reason and lurk``
I don't do either of those.
daring hedge
drunken dash is fine honestly, strips dc fairly well
i tried to make it work in that talos 50 then athena came along and was like hello would you like a divine dash
daring hedge
lol
fallow stream
then u take that mf athena dash
I've slowly weaned myself off divine dash
shy plinth
I don't do either of those.
You’re right, you’re right
fallow stream
I take it, but I like other dashes as well
shy gulch
divine dash is never necessary, but its great safety and unlocks extra dds
which is always p nice
daring hedge
but if you get it, it's good
shy gulch
if i am offered, i take it
shy plinth
Wasn’t there legitimate conversation in here about passion dash being good like recently
gaunt fiber
Yeah it is
daring hedge
i've used it in some of my recent 50s and it's nice
fallow stream
Passion dash is excellent. I was just talking about using it on a curse of longing build recently
gaunt fiber
looks good too
mossy zinc
@fallow stream I think you'll find the meta has shifted quite a bit since you've last been more active around here.
fallow stream
For sure
I've been experimenting as well
My whole approach to the game has always been not to control the first boon in a biome, and see what I can come up with for combos
Has revealed some interesting synergies to me. That's why I don't understand why people waste the advantages of keepsakes on getting the Olympian you "want"
daring hedge
you just earlier said you find the vast majority of keepsakes useless, though?
shy gulch
because i like good build
fallow stream
Because the vast majority of keepsakes are Olympian influences
daring hedge
and controlling a god appearance is far from a waste
fallow stream
A run takes 20 minutes. I don't care if it fails, I'll just start again
shy gulch
right, but if im playing for a purpose, like beating a pb or reaching a heat threshold i havent reached before
imma do what i think is most optimal for that
fallow stream
I bet if you just went rng, you'd accomplish that heat in the same number of runs as trying to influence your first boons
shy gulch
i....do not agree
fallow stream
Whatever heat you like
shy gulch
not really up for the bet atm since im not tryna push heat but maybe ohokwy can take u up on that
its kind of a hard bet to actually do tho
and i mean at this point trying to push a heat threshold means im not trying to influence my boons
because ap2 lmao
edgy arrow
i’m not sure whether this’ll work since doing the first set of attempts will also be practice for the second set
edgy arrow
yeah
shy gulch
but difficult to do
fallow stream
i’m not sure whether this’ll work since doing the first set of attempts will als...
So do your usual strat first then
edgy arrow
okay poseidon 40 is good
fallow stream
I'm not saying not to take a keepsake... Pure rng doesn't mean don't take a keepsake, it just means don't influence the first ones
shy gulch
half the reason i force a god to get a build
is because starting with a lot of gods on certain weapons wouldnt be enjoyable to me
like
imagine dio start on hestia
edgy arrow
^^^
shy gulch
id rather just see big numbers
but poseidon sword is an exception in that basically any god is fun
the other half the reason i do it is bc good build is good lol
daring hedge
typically if you're not going to force a god into your pool in tart, you'll take either shackle or coin purse if you're not running CF
fallow stream
Poseidon fists also sucks
There are boons that do suck, but that's part of the fun for me
shy gulch
well i dont personally find the appeal on a lot of weapons so i'll leave that to u
fallow stream
I have cleared heat 32 with Poseidon fists... Ended up a lot better by the end than I thought it would... Breaking wave is hilarious when you corner enemies
daring hedge
32 is very flexible
fallow stream
Yeah, but I think everyone agrees Poseidon fists is absolutely terribad
edgy arrow
@gaunt fiber Croven has a fun challenge for you