next goal is 32 heat guan yu
#h1-high-heat-strategies
chilly sun
chilly sun
i love guan yu!!! and thank you :]
chilly sun
yeah... then again my first 32 heat clear was DC2 arthur so i think ive got this!!
chilly sun
thank u!!!
edgy arrow
so anyway, i wanted to prove that ignoring flood flare and starting focusing on attack was a valid strat for mirrorless beowulf
so i did it
edgy arrow
thx
i've been having rubbish sack rng all day, and it was like "if i get perfect sack rng i can keep the patty attack buff for hades"
chilly sun
good job!!!!
edgy arrow
so anyway now i can never complain about sack rng again ig
defs would've timed out without it
huh i just realised me and atticor have now put all shields except zeus on the mirrorless spreadsheet
mirrorless zeus coming up i guess
chilly sun
" the final boss is hard " what about double damage FO2 tracker witches
sorry i just hate benefits packig
waxen relic
Oh nice gj ohokwy
waxen relic
Did you start with eternal rose?
edgy arrow
uhh yeah about that
i actually started arrowhead, but i messed up and left AP1 on (instead of enabling EM3) so it got crossed out and i didn’t get it
got heartbreak strike next chamber tho so it wasn’t too bad
i’ll put the vod on the spreadsheet when my internet finishes being bad and uploads it
waxen relic
I can already picture Tyler when he sees you took CF2 UC and AP1
edgy arrow
lmao
trim sigil
MM is coooool
quartz mantle
MM deadass makes Barge faster
stiff aurora
3rd phase hades at 32 heat always kills me lol
also 3 sneaks in phase one with chiron is fun
at least em4 gives you enough heat that the rest of the game is easy enough that I can get to hades pretty reliably
prime lintel
Did my first 32 heat run ever
Beowulf, Scintillating Feast with a lucky Artemis legendary
gaunt fiber
Congrats!
tidal flame
Yeah it's almost i frame use only for me. Sometimes I pop call randomly to avoid the full charge. It's really good to dodge Cerby rush also.
But otherwise I hate it. It kinda disrupt the flow. Also is it me or Hases summons more vases in the third phase?
gaunt fiber
Yeah it's almost i frame use only for me. Sometimes I pop call randomly to avoid...
I do keep my calls for that but it can be a lot of dps too. I don't have your flow issue 
mossy zinc
But otherwise I hate it. It kinda disrupt the flow. Also is it me or Hases summo...
He doesn't spend a "turn" for the wrath, it's passive.
opal token
Do ppl run high confidence at 30-40 Heat or typically HP
dire steppe
Thick skin
gaunt fiber
Some say HC Guan Yu is the true path
opal token
I have tried that but not anywhere near 32 Heat hah
And one shotting everything is a good time
stiff aurora
isn't high confidence pretty much speedrun only?
waxen relic
imagine having a mirror
gaunt fiber
imagine having a mirror
sly remnant
my god beowulf is fun
it was the first time i'd gotten to play the aspect in 2 weeks
tidal flame
Are u a casual beo player if you only play beo?
north dove
I... might attempt streaming in a bit with a scuffed setup
I'm sure bright will be very happy
sly remnant
bruh ping me with the link when you do
true fable
crove he's live now
opal token
Is rocket+cluster bomb plus Theseus face the most satisfying thing in the game?
eris with Zeus strike and jolted and Artemis cast. Is Zeus legend or Lightning Rod better for hades? In Styx now.
Got both offered at same time
And I do have rocket+cluster so Rod may be better bc I’m shooting pretty minimally now
waxen relic
The Legendary is far better
opal token
Okay
waxen relic
Though you don't need either
opal token
Just starting a Zag Fist 32 run and considering whether Chaos 79% attack dmg or 129% backstab dmg would be better. Breaching cross hammer is all so far
Not even specific to zag fists but just a general question of what’s better
Maybe fists backstab bc you zip back and forth so much
waxen relic
Your Call how much you backstab
mossy zinc
Backstab also applies to Uppercuts.
opal token
Thanks!
north dove
thanks to the peeps that came to the stream, fun runs 🙂
shy gulch
demeter sponsored stream
true fable
was fun to spec here and there
opal token
Rama 32: exited Tart with Deadly Strike, Zeus Flourish+Jolted, divine dash, and Lightning Rod duo.
Not sure what to use for Asphodel as a keepsake bc I started with Coin Purse this run.
Do I just put like Zeus keepsake on and try to get towards that legend? Make the duo bolts better
I guess I could just use Chaos Egg lol
gaunt fiber
money acorn
shy gulch
if i already have my full build out of tart
at high heat i usually just go athena to try and force an extra DD, or tooth
prefer tooth for elysium
so i dont use acorn till styx
opal token
Yeah have divine dash already s it’s weird.
gaunt fiber
but he has the dash so
opal token
Acorn Lernie is interesting
shy gulch
yeah but athena in asphodel is best
since u can always easily die in each room
to pick up a DD
opal token
Lol
Oh so if I have zero Stubborn Defiance and die and then take Athena boon, I could get 2 SD theoretically?
gaunt fiber
yeah
shy gulch
oh yea
gaunt fiber
this should be in someone's name
shy gulch
thats a very useful tech
gaunt fiber
instead of "casual etc"
shy gulch
just make sure to die before picking up the athena LUL
opal token
Spearpoint Asphodel actually doesn’t seem crazy
shy gulch
i cant remember how many times ive forgotten to die
gaunt fiber
" SD death before athena for free DD"
opal token
It stops like multi hits from witches, snake things, lava
opal token
Got Rama clear. I’m loosely doing 24x32 apparently lol
Actually 20x32 bc spear, no.
I’m so bad with it Astaos haha
Edit; Fine....goal is all 24 then. Darn spear lovers.
tidal flame
24 or quit
opal token
lol
turbid bobcat
Gods, I don't think high heat is for me, it's just depressing at this point. Tried 32 like 20 times now, and only in 3 of those runs did I even make it to Asphodel 
edgy arrow
don’t worry, it’s not just you
this is actually the #hades-dying-in-tartarus channel
all the cool kids are doing it
turbid bobcat
I'm probably going to stop trying it though, because I get depressed easily, and if I keep trying and failing like this, I'm likely to just uninstall Hades and not play again
turbid bobcat
I hate admitting defeat, but I just can't do this
gaunt fiber
Let me say something
edgy arrow
r u gonna suggest GY
gaunt fiber
When I was trying Guan Yu at 40, I spent 2 entire weeks in Tartarus. It was a pain, I thought I could not do it ever
I'm 100% sure you can 32
turbid bobcat
GY was actually my first few attempts, since I usually do well with it, and was one of the only runs to make it to Asphodel
turbid bobcat
I don't think you understand though, I mentally cannot handle constant failure like this
gaunt fiber
Pick something you like to play with, ask for advice/pact whatever here
turbid bobcat
no matter how hard I try
turbid bobcat
I can't improve if I ragequit and uninstall the game
fathom burrow
Are you going from 0 to 32 heat?
turbid bobcat
from 10 to 32
fathom burrow
Maybe build it up slowly?
gaunt fiber
Maybe it's a bit early
edgy arrow
that’s a pretty big jump ngl
fathom burrow
Yeah you're going from "negligible heat" to "oh no"
gaunt fiber
Just play whatever you want and have fun, then grind at your own pace
edgy arrow
i went 8 -> 16 -> 20 -> 26 -> 32
gaunt fiber
32 is by no mean free
edgy arrow
generally there’s kind of a mindset shift in moving to 32+ as well
you gotta worry about builds and stuff
well, some folks in this channel can prolly do 32 one handed while blind folded using drunken strike hestia but most people gotta worry about builds
gaunt fiber
It's just practice
fathom burrow
But that's why you have to make it fun for yourself, so you have the motivation to keep practicing 😄
gaunt fiber
Or being stubborn as hell imo
shy gulch
yeah i would recommend going a bit slower, 32 is not free and none of us jumped that high to start. however, if you're still not enjoying raising the heat then yeah probably best to just do something else
dying in tartarus 50 times in a row is not enjoyable for most ppl but a lot of us here are masochists
dire steppe
speak for yourself, i die to lernie 50 times in a row
north dove
lernie is the scariest boss ngl
shy plinth
Head rng is a clencher
edgy arrow
i must not be using enough heat, because people complain about lernie but i rarely have an issue with him
could be an aspect thing idk
shy gulch
what aspect r u using
shy plinth
I pop defiance on white head lernies every time
shy gulch
lernie eats me a lot
edgy arrow
I pop defiance on white head lernies every time
sure but SD means who cares
and actually i usually have to suicide after lernie anyway
shy plinth
Yeah I just worry about getting bonked a second time after and getting one shot
HL5 bonks hurt real bad
edgy arrow
truth
shy plinth
And on td3 it's easy to just focus on zooming around and get clipped by a shockwave
edgy arrow
idk it’s not like i never die there, he’s just definitely the boss i’m most comfortable with for some reason
shy plinth
Yeah
edgy arrow
lol you ever done special only lernie with arthur?
shy plinth
Asterius is still my nightmare but lernie is no joke
edgy arrow
that was an experience
shy plinth
Special only??
edgy arrow
yeah i had a chaos curse
shy plinth
Yeesh
edgy arrow
tactical error on my part
gaunt fiber
What
edgy arrow
worked out somehow
gaunt fiber
Chaos curse on main dps is the best feeling
edgy arrow
i had FO2 turned off tho
gaunt fiber
Living at 1 hp
edgy arrow
this was my arthur 32
proccing the curse an 1hp feels so good
usually a brief feeling
but i’ll take what i can get
edgy arrow
hmmm true 
edgy arrow
what like, you can gain max health?
gaunt fiber
yeah but limited in time/amount
edgy arrow
huh yeah could be cool
shy plinth
Could be a hammer
edgy arrow
yeah that’d be a neat hammer
shy plinth
You can overheal up to your max health amount and armor falls off after combat
edgy arrow
i feel like they could have done more outside the box things with the legendary specific hammers
like, lucy’s are all just QoL upgrades basically
which ig is fine idk
gaunt fiber
You can overheal up to your max health amount and armor falls off after combat
yeah but it would force you to spin more than necessary
I don't really like that idea since it's already slow
edgy arrow
lol
shy plinth
Hrm
gaunt fiber
but something that enhances it and helps with the 50% part
shy plinth
Yeah that makes sense
edgy arrow
yeah GY’s issue is that it’s really good at handling chip damage (which SD does better on any weapon) but can’t take a big hit
gaunt fiber
Well you can take one big hit
edgy arrow
lol alternate suggestion: GY gives you 1 hp, but you can spin for DC hearts
gaunt fiber
lmao
dire steppe
butterfly ball moment
mossy zinc
@turbid bobcat I would recommend you get all bounties for at least one weapon before you try 32 Heat. You'll learn a lot about your weapon, builds, pacts, and just general Hades fundamentals along the way.
next marsh
i just rnged into unhealthy fixation on chiron bow, trying to decide if i should just sell it or try to get apho special
would that be as OP as it sounds?
potent saffron
Idk if stuff like that is similar to Zeus lightning bolts in that it only procs on a delay
Like how the support fire from Artemis doesn’t fire an arrow for every chiron bolt that hits
And when you have the lightning special from Zeus it only procs like one or two lightning bolts I think
What floor are you on? If it’s relatively early and you have the aphro trinket ready to swap in for higher chance it could be worth
Depends on the interactions with the bolts
next marsh
nah i am on styx
potent saffron
ehhh
next marsh
i sold it
potent saffron
Wait the room between Elysium and styx?
Or did you get a purge pool in one of the rooms
next marsh
i was between
next marsh
yeah that was my thought too
but it would have been funny if i had gotten the rng and it had worked as hoped
edgy arrow
there isn't an ICD on unhealthy fixation
sounds like it was the right call to sell it either way tho
potent saffron
Oops my bad
Didn’t even think about rail plus unhealthy
Wait
Does Demeter twin fists work w that too?
Special hits like 6 times fully upgraded right
opal token
Somehow in my 2 best Arthur attempts, both have been 5 sacks
Just dead to time lol
Like 6.5 mins going into Styx so not bad, but not 5 sack hades worth of time for me. Oh wel
green citrus
Yeah unfortunately if you're running TD3 a 4 or 5 sack have high chance of killing you due to time lol
mossy zinc
so each special would be a guaranteed charm?
73% chance to Charm with Chiron's Volley.
next marsh
73% chance to Charm with Chiron's Volley.
or 86% with relentless volley
mossy zinc
Yep.
mossy zinc
Why is that a photo of a screenshot in paint? 
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
opal token
Thanks. Used aphro dash for you
dire steppe
do it for Earisu?
disclaimer i havent actually played final fantasy so that might not be the right character
mossy zinc
Aerith is Earisu in kana.
dire steppe
that does make more sense phonetically
thorn jay
FO2 is beating my ass
wanton plover
same
vital grove
Aeris tho
sly remnant
FO2 is beating my ass
Same
dawn cedar
How did you guys manage to get to high heat?
Run individual settings in a vaccum until you're used to them? Working up to 25 heat gradually?
shy gulch
got all the bounties for a few weapons by going 1 by 1 up to 20
then I jumped a bit and went to like 25 then 32, i don’t remember
edgy arrow
the most important thing is consistency, at the end of the day
some people work up slowly, some make big jumps. some people make save files for drilling bosses, some don’t. some people force themselves to get used to hard pacts early, some delay them until they need to use them.
at the end of the day, the people who succeed are the people who keep trying even through dying repeatedly in tartarus
true fable
or retrash
true fable
LOL
edgy arrow
big truth
true fable
ananke1 my favorite tartarus streamer
shy gulch
webs2d is mine
halcyon flame
dying in tartarus/not getting through tartarus in 2 picoseconds or less
shy gulch
love me some lofi flurry jab resets
edgy arrow
meg is final boss prove me wrong
true fable
yeah but webs2d sometimes makes it to fists
shy gulch
fair
mossy zinc
speed runners high heat players
🤝
tartarus only...
speed runners high heat players
🦊
shy gulch
lmao
rain sedge
oh someone beat king's 40 heat time by 2 sec for the 32 heat
I guess he's no longer the 32h record with 40h
shy gulch
someone actually broke sub 8 on 32 heat the other day
runs still being verified
quite impressive
dire steppe
i did 0 -> 8 -> 16 -> 27 (everything except HL5) -> 32
proper bloom
I have a question regarding the behavior of some units. Why is it that especially in the third biome units can still hit me back while I have multiple sources of damage on them? What is the best way to counter that? Hit them and dash on to the next?
Currently trying 32 and I make it until the 2nd phase of hades but not further
And obviously while they dont have armor
true fable
oh someone beat king's 40 heat time by 2 sec for the 32 heat
yeah someone beat it by a minute
crazy stuff
sly remnant
ye both 32 and 40 heat are far from optimized
50 is lightyears from optimization. but we are a ways away as a community from doing that
sly remnant
i agree
i suspect in a month sub 9 will be the standard for 32
but honestly until we get better sub 10 is good enough right now
a lot of strong aspects are going to perform similar at any and 32
only top tier weapons will be relatively unaffected by 40
shy gulch
yeah for sure
sly remnant
whether we as a community want to continue to improve times....remains to be seen
true fable
i think there will always be people pushing it
sly remnant
I think so too
true fable
interestingly enough
what i like recently
is that people like mrravine have come in and ONLY been playing 32 heat
no anyheat stuff
nor pushing high heat
just grinding specifically 32 heat times
sly remnant
Which is great
true fable
yeah 100%
sly remnant
V happy to see
I suspect more any heat will convert as well
As times on any heat get more and more ridiculous
But pushing times down on 32 and 40 is a relatively new phenomenon. It could fade tomorrow.
Hope it doesn't tho :)
gaunt fiber
Had to do a clean Arthur
the run was pretty fast even without npc
But Hades fight took me ages because I don't know how to fight him with Arthur
tidal flame
I have a question regarding the behavior of some units. Why is it that especiall...
Did they have armor? Also archers can be finicky sometimes.
green citrus
https://imgur.com/WWJq5KX
Nice my dude. Passion dash build bold for 40 heat, impressed
proper bloom
Did they have armor? Also archers can be finicky sometimes.
Nope no armor. I was having Zeus Shield on them and attacked at the same time and sometimes they dmg me and I wonder if I don't know something. Like it has to be over a dmg threshold or every 0.5 sec etc
dire steppe
concept: fresh file to 40 heat speedrun
dire steppe
since 40 heat is pretty hard, it’d be interesting to see what the strategy is for getting blood keepsakes and mirror
mossy zinc
Some attacks can't be interrupted.
dire steppe
maybe fresh file to 32 would be better
tidal flame
Sometimes things will still hit you if they are already mid animation. Like I said, archers are guilty of this, but swordmen can't be stopped mid their spasm dash, same with spear.
tidal flame
Best is to learn the animation of those, or... just tank the hit tbh
It doesn't happen too often.
proper bloom
Well if you run with enough heat you don't have too much hp :/ And I can't see most animations because there are so many boon effects
but yeah guess I have to find a way
gaunt fiber
Nice my dude. Passion dash build bold for 40 heat, impressed
Thanks! It's rough indeed, thanks for your teachings tho, really helped. HS is also terrible but I remembered your AP1 runs and I was not ready for that 
jaunty narwhal
ayy i completed 10 heat with my bow
but sometimes i don't know what i should put on
vital grove
If you can complete 10 heat with just an arrow
I shudder to think what you can do with a bow too
jaunty narwhal
xD
extreme measure 3 is cool
what do i put if i have to choose
jury summon/40% more expensive
sly remnant
i would shy away from those at 11 heat
limpid crane
I go with jury
sly remnant
but yea if you have to pick one go jury
jaunty narwhal
i would shy away from those at 11 heat
then do you pick
jaunty narwhal
i learned the hard way that hard labor is a BAD TIME
full flame
i am now on 17 heat 
jaunty narwhal
nice
full flame
thank u 😄
vital grove
I think I'd rather have AP1 than CF2
On some aspects
It's almost double the shop boons to start with
And you can buy defiances or boosts more easily
true fable
i ran CF1 i think
green citrus
You also did EM4 right @sly remnant ? So that frees a lot of heat
chilly sun
no athena dash...you Chad
opal token
I feel like CF2 is more than twice as bad as CF1.
Like 32 Heat with CF1 and HL4 >>>> CF2 HL3 for me
shy gulch
yeah CF2 is much worse than CF1 but i was impressed they had the leeway
even with em4, 50 heat is tuff
sly remnant
You also did EM4 right <@380736019726729216> ? So that frees a lot of heat
If you arent running EM4 on beo you are throwing away heat
It was only AP1 no RI no CF
Its on the speedrun boards and the spreadsheet you can watch the run
shy plinth
How does Drowning work with Beo
I assume you just have normal curse of drowning and it's awful?
true fable
nope
shy plinth
Gross
sly remnant
Get sea storm tho
sly remnant
Its a straight nerf
true fable
its the reason why you have to roll away ares core on flood flare beo
sly remnant
^
sly remnant
It works like here slicing flare
*hera
Its essential dio cast with less damage and somehow even more boon dependent
Also less aoe
sly remnant
Ye it would be a fun meme to run
true fable
hunting blades unfortunately will never be offered with beowulf 😦
best you can do is engulfing vortex vicious cycle
sly remnant
Lmao I didnt actually know that
Cuz uh. I ran it once and that was enough for me :)
Can you get demeter ares duo?
shy gulch
yes
sly remnant
Ty
So essentially you get blade dash
That ends at your rush
Instead of starts at your dash
I had slicing flare as second worst beo cast
I might put it as worst
Atleast zeus has normal good stuff
shy plinth
Wow I didn't know they removed hunting blades from beo but I guess they did in blood price
No parting shot either, sadge
sly remnant
I knew about parting shot because thats a thing you could realistically get if you play beo
spring kettle
The problem about zeus is that you need a lot of zeus for him to scale well
His billowing strength and duo with aphro is very strong tho
left hamlet
Hi everyone! Just discovered this server. I read on the subreddit that to get into high heat (which I'm planning to), I have to get used to Extreme Measures 4 , Tight Deadline 3, and Forced Overtime 2 which gives 22 heat. It's a lot of heat for just 3 pacts. Is this reasonable?
north dove
That is completely false
tidal flame
EM4 on FO2 is rough
rain sedge
sounds like a #h1-builds-and-combat advice
tidal flame
Tight Deadline 3 is also not the de facto depending on how high you go
rain sedge
advice for "high heat" is pinned
left hamlet
They claim it makes for a natural transition to higher heat without RNG which seems reasonable
tidal flame
On higher up you might actually want TD2 to accommodate JS/CP
rain sedge
the only person that turns on EM4 even at 50+ heat is retrash
tidal flame
I think the assessment on FO2 is fair
You should get used to FO2 to climb higher than 32
rain sedge
yea that one seems fair if you wanna do 40+
tidal flame
(read: you don't even need it at 32)
rain sedge
most of my 32 aspects turned off FO2
north dove
I ran EM4 FO0 for a long time
tidal flame
But EM4 and TD3 specifically is debatable.
rain sedge
well, I still have 4 aspects at 40, but I don't think I'll change the heat setup
tidal flame
I say there is an argument for say EM3 FO2 TD3, just not EM4
left hamlet
Okay so when I get to maybe 3 heat I'll do FO1 then at 9 heat EM2 FO2
tidal flame
And yeah, take the pacts one by one for a good learning curve imo
rain sedge
is there a learning curve for taking AP or RI tho
tidal flame
DC2 is weapon dependent
Almost always take on fist/rail
Almost never take on Hestia/Arthur
rain sedge
as you play more aspects you'll get a feel whether DC2 is good or not
left hamlet
I play nemesis sword and hera bow
north dove
Extreme measures 2, Middle Management and Tight Deadline 2 are pretty good starting heats
left hamlet
Alright will try those out lots of thanks
torn remnant
underworld customs isn’t too bad
rain sedge
worst 40 so far, it was damn close too
if I died I would've been so mad, I missed on free DD twice because I forgot to suicide
opal token
Is it a horrible idea to just use Plume for all melee aspects at 32 Heat...
Free epic Hermes evasion etc etc
I feel the melee weapons are less dependent on specific boons
Random follow up: explosive shot vs Chain Shot on Aspect of Zag bow
And I assume Artemis attack is what I want
north dove
Just found out Hades's aid instakills all the skulls during the Hades fight. Might be an interesting trinket for EM4, especially for the last phase
spring kettle
Interesting strategy but then you can't take other calls and use other keepsakes
dire steppe
You could see if UC allows you to sell your call
north dove
yeah, I took it because I had to sell my call and had second wind + billowing. very niche scenario
dire steppe
Just found out Hades's aid instakills all the skulls during the Hades fight. Mig...
woudl have been nicerf in the days of 25% lesser calls
spring kettle
Too bad smoldering is incompatible with Hades' aid
I guess if you have smoldering you either can't take the keepsake or the call never charges to even one bar
nocturne tusk
I could be missing it, but peeping in the script files, I see where Hades' keepsake blocks Smoldering & Quick Favor, but I don't see where you're blocked from getting those boons and then equipping the keepsake
dire steppe
You're not
I'm pretty sure i got smoldering with hades after the nerf
And it just does nothing
By selling my call
true fable
Just found out Hades's aid instakills all the skulls during the Hades fight. Mig...
wait a second
what???
even through like DC2 and stuff?
north dove
yup, they just go poof
north dove
on another note, only 6 aspects left until 45 streak is complete 👀
daring hedge
oh wow good luck! that's insane
sleek juniper
Is the Hades call real worthwhile? In my very limited use found the invisible lackluster
spring kettle
Doesn’t it stop once you use an attack?
hollow lynx
iirc it lasts the entire duration of the call
summer night
Half charge is, it stops when you attack. Full charge is, it lasts the entire duration of the call.
I would personally prefer any other number of keepsakes to the Hades call keepsake
Hades call is decent for a keepsake, except it has a hidden cost; it keeps you from having a better call. Most keepsakes don't limit you from having a better boon.
summer night
Okay, fair, but also, I still stand what I say about the Hades keepsake
I'd prefer something else that doesn't limit any boon slot I can have.
edgy arrow
i don’t disagree
it’s use is pretty limited in high heat, i think it’s seen a bit more in speedruns
onyx venture
It's used less now in speedruns after the nerf, not sure how common it is anymore
opal token
What would I do to have a save file that would let me practice FO2 hades
tidal flame
like EM4 FO2?
opal token
I need just basic hades even lol
onyx venture
I want to say there's a mod for save loading, but you can do it manually too. Just gotta backup the temp save when you enter the fight and then replace the main save with the temp one each time you want to practice
opal token
FO2 hard labor is kicking my butt unfortunately. I am getting to Hades most 32 attempts now tho
Ah okay I should be able to do that. Thanks!
shy gulch
at high heat i usually dont use dad call yeah
its a speedrun thing
id prefer acorn or someth for safety
true fable
its still quite common for speedrunning
generally the only call worth taking is zeus
and you just want so many other things from zeus
nocturne tusk
not sure if I totally understand why the sigil auto-kills skulls, but I think it might be because the skulls are on a "attack and die" AI script
if the sigil makes you untargetable maybe they just say "hmm guess I'll die"
halcyon flame
note to self: if i'm doing lc4 and have to use sd and the room reward is athena, always suicide before taking it
do athena's dd boons have prerequisites?
nocturne tusk
attack/special/cast/dash/aid, iirc
halcyon flame
so i just have to get any of those and then i just have to hope she offers me a dd boon, preferably rare or epic
maybe heroic if possible 👉 👈
nocturne tusk
I lied, I don't think Aid counts. but one of the first four yeah
vital grove
Athena dds are less complicated to get than it seems at first glance
Unless you're doing RI and AP2 lol then goooood luck
Speaking of Plume, I really liked it on Arthur
Less consistent Tartarus of course but the dodge and Consecration add a lot of ehp
rain sedge
That Hades aid killing skull is so weird
How come the speedrunners haven't noticed it before? They use the keepsake all the time
waxen relic
I don't think Hades gets to do much before he has to transition to the next phase in Speedruns
waxen relic
not sure if I totally understand why the sigil auto-kills skulls, but I think it...
It could very well be that they need to have a target to be able to attack like most other foes need to, but then they would only vanish if they trigger during the unseen phase, not just all vanish.
Could have something to do with the cooldown reset
gaunt fiber
@rain sedge Congrats on the Gilga clear mate
nocturne tusk
It could very well be that they need to have a target to be able to attack like ...
I'll have to look through the script again but I think they have a target prior to blowing up (which, idk why a bomb cares but whatever)
so I was thinking maybe the target-interrupting ability of the keepsake makes it jump straight to the post-detonation vanishing? idk
halcyon flame
do people ever have ap/rl/uc on for fun? because those are definitely the least fun modifiers
rain sedge
<@!203931754501767168> Congrats on the Gilga clear mate
Thanks, resetting to get ME was not fun
waxen relic
do people ever have ap/rl/uc on for fun? because those are definitely the least ...
yes. smashing through everything unhindered isn't the only fun thing in the game. Did a AP2 RI3 UC Beo Run not too long ago. Also there's the Mirrorless Category f.e.
halcyon flame
now do ap2 rl4 uc 🗿
waxen relic
Is 32 Heat RI4 UC not enough?
halcyon flame
63 heat 
dire steppe
do people ever have ap/rl/uc on for fun? because those are definitely the least ...
everyone takes UC at 32 lol
wanton plover
i dont mind uc at all
sly remnant
I skip uc until 40+
When you are speedrunning you'll often walk out of tart with only 3 boons. Having to sell one of those sucks. Some aspects like hestia can do it. But in general it slows you down a lot
sly remnant
Things like UC and CF don't have the immediate noticeable impact that HL or LC do, but they are quite difficult. Delaying your build because you can't shop or have to sell things makes elysium a lot more of a slog. We always talk about the elysium wall. And sure HL and LC have something to do with that since you have less health. But things can't hurt you if they are dead. Things live a lot longer in elysium because your damage has been gimped by things like RI, AP, UC, and CF
grats on gilga @rain sedge !
gl on the final aspects @north dove ! i know you can do it!
rain sedge
thanks, just nemesis and arthur left
how did retrash clear 57 with nemesis, this aspect is so hard to play
sly remnant
sword hard
sly remnant
f
rain sedge
yep dead
is there an easier way of playing nemesis? I'm playing arty attack and hoping for heart rend/ deadly reversal
sly remnant
you can reset for neMEsis
rain sedge
no thanks, resetting for ME at gilga was the filthiest I felt playing this game
and I play eris
sly remnant
could also do like divine dash with owl start and heartbreak strike
gonna be hella slow tho so probably need TD2
rain sedge
I had divine dash for 3 tries or so, havent gotten past furies yet
but this try I went all in on HP and got 210 hp on furies
that might work
god pool sucks though, arty, zeus, demeter
sly remnant
thats not bad
rain sedge
yea survived based on pure HP
sly remnant
electric shot on nemesis is unironic. it helps your reach a lot and doesn't enable any duos you don't want (since i assume you are running stygian soul)
sly remnant
ye lightning rod ain't bad its just not heart rend or deadly reversal on nemesis
halcyon flame
from general experience what's the easiest 20 heat setup?
rain sedge
I hate that he's a miniboss
like the difference between asterius and the butterfly ball is so big
sly remnant
from general experience what's the easiest 20 heat setup?
are you looking to push heat or just want your clear
halcyon flame
for now i just wanna get the bounties while i can
sly remnant
and whats the aspect
halcyon flame
then i'll move on to trying to push the heat to 32
is there really no general 20 heat that's equally easy for all aspects?
sly remnant
no
DC is the biggest difference maker
like dc on eris? pretty free
DC on hestia? nightmare
torn remnant
i usually did EM3 BP1 MM UC TD2 and then added others as i saw fit
halcyon flame
i think i've gotten used to the big boy cow
sly remnant
UC on cast weapons is a big nono
torn remnant
em3 means i dont need to deal with theseus annoying shield
and uc is almost always a non-issue for me anyway
halcyon flame
aside from occasionally being hit by the spin attack that deals 32 damage per hit but it's fine at least i can deal with the chariot just fine
halcyon flame
uc is definitely a nono on cast builds considering you rely on other boons to help you, especially other particular boons
which aspects in particular don't mind uc
sly remnant
hestia
sly remnant
most swords and spears aren't too bad with it. i'm not saying they love it, but since you'll probably be taking trials and such anyways its fine
you'll have garbage boons to sell
halcyon flame
intentionally taking crappy boons so you can sell them later: 🧠 ⬆️
sly remnant
things get weird at high heat
like normally most people skip dionysius for most aspects
but at 45+ with RI. you don't have a choice. you may not see another boon all of tartarus
and you'll need something to sell
things like blade dash become super good because you can use them a lot in tart and then sell them in the Tart well
halcyon flame
is blade dash actually good or am i giving it too much credit? i personally see it being really nice with fists unless you have long knuckle
dire steppe
blade dash is really good at high heat
removes DC and doesn't need boons to buff it (except optional engulfing vortex)
halcyon flame
what's the boon that makes blade rifts last longer?
rain sedge
I tried arthur at 40 once
and uh
there's no way I can play this weapon
I think nemesis will go sooner or later, but arthur is a different story
it's so clunky
halcyon flame
arthur hits like a truck i mean yeah 300 backstab base damage is nice but i'd like to not stand still for what feels like an eternity just to kill a single enemy with an extremely wide slash
hallowed ground is cool though
torn remnant
im a clown and cannot for the life of me do 32 heat shield
im so bad with shield aa
halcyon flame
unrelated but the invincibility you get from taking too much damage should be buffed entirely for the sake of personal liability actually being impactful in some way
edgy arrow
what's the boon that makes blade rifts last longer?
engulfing vortex
halcyon flame
so engulfing vortex is common only right? no rare or epic
edgy arrow
yeah you can absolutely get higher rarities
halcyon flame
blade dashes that pull enemies in and last somewhere around 2 seconds 
oh wait no so epic engulfing vortex would only be +0.4 seconds
😔
green citrus
arthur hits like a truck i mean yeah 300 backstab base damage is nice but i'd li...
If you figure out the dash-attack-dash-attack combo, it can become very quick. You almost never want to stand still and swing with Arthur. You can carry the sweeps with you as you dash and clear multiple enemies at once.
green citrus
Fair then I guess but what you said before didn't sound like it lol.
I'm able to make it feel fluid and when you get swift strike it becomes a completely different weapon.
edgy arrow
i’m pretty bad with arthur but it’s kinda like when people say beo is clunky ig
like, sure maybe, but not if you practice
green citrus
It's definitely rhythmical haha that's a good way to put it.
vital grove
I play FO2 only and feel it's fine
Sometimes you have to find your opening but eh so what
halcyon flame
I play FO2 only and feel it's fine
god gamer
opal token
Somehow I do better with Arthur 32 than with Bow/Shield/Spear/Eris 😛
Dash attack and also dash special into skulls
Dash special really helps in Tartarus with Arthur
true fable
arthur is one of the strongest weapons vs heat until it isnt
true fable
RI2 AP1 LOL
and then it was basically a 32 heat run
with less boons
i probably couldve done it with a more normal pact but choked vs dad when i had ME arthur first try
i think my first try was my standard pact that i used for most 40 clears with JS2 cf1
rain sedge
The FO2 hurts bad for me
Since the weapon is so slow
I might take ri2 ap2 to take more heat off
mossy zinc
I think RI and AP are fine on Excalibur.
rain sedge
Nya? What did you do for your exca 40?
I'm assuming you went for path of least resistance too for the 24x40
tidal flame
Do you have twin/triple?
opal token
First thing right out the door
true fable
both are good as long as you have twin/triple
opal token
Have nothing so far
tidal flame
Flurry without Twin is a bit rough
Just high roll it
I mean PBS is still rough, but a bit less so
opal token
For sure. Was trying to decide which is better with zag bow crit
Altho I started Artemis keepsake but maybe aphro shot is better with flurry
Bc of higher base % dmg
opal token
Good to know
Can’t even dash shoot once for a bonus eh?
Overall dps from Artemis strike with flurry >>> aphro strike?
true fable
you can do aphro strike for heart rend but generally artemis strike is the way
tidal flame
Artemis with Zag is good because Hunter Dash scales well while Deadly Strike also opens up Clean Kill and stuff.
opal token
Thanks all
tidal flame
Flurry Shot, again, is weird, but I'll go Artemis still for Heart Rend with Passion Dash.
true fable
even then deadly flourish heartbreak strike is a pretty popular build for zag bow on a speed level
its different from nemesis because nemesis has a very easy way to apply weak
through its special
zag bow theres no simple way without compromising your dash strike damage
gaunt fiber
I tried arthur at 40 once
Passion dash hit them hard with your love
tidal flame
👋
rain sedge
first try with that setup, I basically only need the attack and the divine dash
hi mod
nemesis is the last one, who knew
gaunt fiber
Kill them with love <:Aphroditesymbol:747697813655257089>
Hi! Love kills are the best
FO0 
@rain sedge
Congrats on your clear! What's left?
rain sedge
just nemesis
gaunt fiber
Pog
true fable
i think i did FO1 TD2 for forgiveness but
that works too
as long as you dont get sacced
dire steppe
trying 40 heat rama with HL5 FO1 TD3 EM3 LC4 UC MM BP2 AP2 wish me luck
gaunt fiber
I missed the mighty Zag Sword?
dire steppe
and dc2
rain sedge
flurry slash, got it first try
gaunt fiber
Lmao
rain sedge
I mean I get that people like dedge but
gaunt fiber
Congrats, I had a hard time
rain sedge
there was a couple nem run that I got dedge, but I swear I can't dash strike consistently
I really dont know how you do it
gaunt fiber
With sword I press buttons at the same times
rain sedge
well you did beo first try, I had to do it like 20 times
I do that too but somehow it doesnt work for me
maybe ps4 controller is different with xbos
gaunt fiber
Cursed setup
rain sedge
I only use that setup for eris high heat
gaunt fiber
Oh that's right
The thing I wanted to beat Zag Sword with TD3 and no hammer reset
Hence I died a lot
dire steppe
https://prnt.sc/xmah30 worth reroll? lol
green citrus
Yes because you can't sell it lol
gaunt fiber
Keep reroll for DD
dire steppe
i wanted frost flourish
gaunt fiber
Yeah chilling bosses could be good
dire steppe
died to lernie lol
gaunt fiber
Rip
true fable
happens
dire steppe
ap2 plume crutch is the secret technique
true fable
sometimes ur just in the wrong place at the wrong time
dire steppe
rama feels so clunky to me after playing fists and rail for so long
rain sedge
ty for teaching the dash-striking combo
green citrus
ty for teaching the dash-striking combo
Yes! I saw, ggs my dude. Anytime.
Not using FO, I get it, but man RI2 on 40 rough haha.
rain sedge
there was a run where a bunch of numbskulls kill me because they were too fast for me to hit
and they keep staggering me
I knew I couldn't do it with FO2
dire steppe
need unshakeable mettle smh
green citrus
Yeah weird that some tart BP2 combos are the toughest haha
rain sedge
my vote is on seeker cloner witches before you get divine dash
sly remnant
you guys are getting divine dash?
green citrus
you guys are getting divine dash?
Not on 50 heat 🙃
opal token
Lol cleared 32 Heat with epic Quick favor and aphro call and Artemis T2 that boosts call when you crit. Just kept hades perma charmed more or less by spamming Call
Zag bow
That was not how I expected to win that
rain sedge
hey, remember the time that heart rend have that weird description that says +50% crit damage?
Is clean kill at epic making your crit deal 330% damage, or 390% damage?
true fable
more with heart rend though
true fable
i think trials are almost always the move for me
slanting boon economy back in your favor is just such value
shy gulch
b o o n
e c o n o m y
shy gulch
yes
torn remnant
i won that run but uhh wow
shy gulch
its rough
true fable
its a hard ass fight
torn remnant
timed out and then my hands went numb halfway into hades fight
: |
its too cold in this room
opal token
Keep forgetting to take epic swift strike when I have delta chamber lol
true fable
hand warmers are sick
shy gulch
yeah he lives in my heart
torn remnant
sudden rush dashing flight was probably the best hammers i could ask for with chaos
blocking op, but its also why i timed out 
laser spam from hades in p2
true fable
i live in LA
opal token
Omg eris rail with blade dash and Ares legend is so much fun lol
opal token
It’s my new favorite thing. Blade dash fists and eris and whatever
rain sedge
the way of the retrash
daring hedge
my 51 zag fists started with vial and blade dash, ended up like lv. 5 by the end
AP2 for once actually was nice to me in terms of poms
daring hedge
no, mostly blade dash but high rarity doom attack i would've rolled with
daring hedge
sadly dash started common but at least eurydice boosted it to rare
torn remnant
i guess i'll start trying out 40 heat
daring hedge
we are all streaking 24x60 and just don't talk about it sorry
dire steppe
honestly i feel like i could do 32 more consistently with full plume
rain sedge
friends
torn remnant
i could streak 32 if i only played guan yu Smilers
dire steppe
than actually trying to get a build
dire steppe
maybe i take fathority for god pool
rain sedge
I have a flurry slash on nemesis
sly remnant
oh no
rain sedge
do I take cursed slash or settle for piercing wave
like
I know I probably shouldnt take cursed slash
but SURELY with flurry slash it works
sly remnant
take cursed
rain sedge
where's retrash when you need him
dire steppe
is this 40 heat
rain sedge
this is 40
dire steppe
flurry piercing + zeus attack and pretend it’s zag rail
trust me this is a good idea
sly remnant
@dire steppe plume strats are really bad. its easier to get dodge from other sources if you value it that much
rain sedge
I'm all inning on heart rend
ok piercing wave, I think cursed slash means one hit from asterius
torn remnant
always take risks, where's the fun in playing safe https://i.imgur.com/NBaQaAr.png
daring hedge
flurry is already kinda dangerous because you get less control over empty dashes
dire steppe
did i show off my 0% butterfly run in here
daring hedge
love to try and dash away but zag just needs to get one little slash in anyway without pressing anything
dire steppe
took pierced butterfly and got hit in every chamber
true fable
love to try and dash away but zag just *needs* to get one little slash in anyway...
have you seen it with +30% AS tho
it's sick
daring hedge
yeah i can imagine
rain sedge
I only got 10% and I sold it
daring hedge
i like flurry slash but the way it messes with safety bugs me
rain sedge
aaand I spent all my rolls and dont have heart rend
I knew this is gonna happen
I have such difficulty rolling for heart rend
shouldve taken the athena chamber
????????????????
athena DD get consumed before bablo tooth?
I thought its the other way round
daring hedge
If you equipped skelly tooth after getting DD yes that's normal
rain sedge
aargh
I might lose this run then
yep dead
6 heart rend rolls, some which are minibosses rooms, and I didn't get it
not 2 sac too so lost patty
pretty much everything that can go wrong went wrong
true fable
you have lower chance of getting duos/legendaries in miniboss rooms
rain sedge
no? it's higher
true fable
^
rain sedge
BoonRaritiesOverride =
{
LegendaryChance = 0.1,
EpicChance = 0.25,
RareChance = 0.90
},
damnit
2% lower
rain sedge
time to admit defeat and do FO1
dire steppe
in another sense it’s 16% lower
rain sedge
why 16%?
past field
Does it ever make sense to use an unleveled Stygian Soul to remove certain lackluster boons (like from Hermes) from the pool?
Also maybe easier to keep Ravenous Will up?
rain sedge
people do make that argument
I find it easier for ravenous will to have infernal soul
past field
Also if I'm just using cast to stick in target for Abyssal/Boiling blood, not having to pick them back up seems ideal
past field
I find it easier for ravenous will to have infernal soul
Yeah, I wonder if that might be easier still
maybe even infernal soul but only +1 bloodstone
easy to reliably have one cast on target but also easy to be holding 0?
but I feel like it's easier to dump 3 casts and forget them for a bit than have to cast every 5 seconds?
past field
removing certain hermes boons from the pool does seem nice though
I like lightning rod
except with certain weapons ofc
rain sedge
basically in practice it doesn't affect your play that much, it's removing 1 hermes boon, arguably making 1 niche boon from a terrible god easier to play, and removing 1 duo that's arguably good
just use whatever you like more for your cast gameplay
rain sedge
like what weapon
past field
Fists, spear
chiron
depends what heat modifiers you're doing I guess
obviously nourished soul is trash if you're doing LC4
and the slow is not very good if you're on TD3 and just trying to go fast
I can see why Demeter would be a terrible god with those pact mods
rain sedge
basically at high heat you kinda never want demeter
past field
I mean, like 40+
where the LC4 with stubborn defiance is practically necessary?
I play at 32 heat with a sort of unconventional pact setup where I find Demeter quite useful
I'd almost always prefer Aphrodite still though
rain sedge
got my heart rend and divine dash, greeted by blue lernie head
lernie why do you do this to me
I thought we were friends
north dove
what aspects do you have left <@!240258547370164234> ?
only the hidden aspects left
opal token
Can you get legends from trial rooms? I know you can’t get Duos
opal token
Ty
shy gulch
boutta ride slicing flare to victory
rain sedge
only the hidden aspects left
gilga 45 huge yikes
can you ping us when you start the stream retrash?
also if you told me the weapon that will struggle with TD3 is nemesis, I would've laughed at you
but here we are, losing athena DD thanks to TD3
sly remnant
nemesis can be hard cuz its dangerous
north dove
really busy with work this week unfortunately 😦
rain sedge
😦
ok I'm at dad with patty and no extra DD
I have heart rend and stuff
if I can't win here I think I'm just bad
rain sedge
got it