greatshields are the worst enemies
#h1-high-heat-strategies
thorn jay
Woah what's the difference between the heads? Blue and what?
rain sedge
I think I'm fine doing 20 aspects at 40 heat actually
I tried nemesis just now, and I can't even consistently dash strike
I'm good
sly remnant
Nem hard
sly remnant
Woah what's the difference between the heads? Blue and what?
Blue does constant head slams that make bombs rain from the sky. Orange spits lava puddles and does the rapid pink darts. Green spits out bloodless and makes skullcrushers rain down. Pink does the super pink wave like a wavemaker.
thorn jay
Oh wow i never knew that. Yeah with my bow runs, lernie is the boss i feared the most especially that headslamming heads
TIL
daring hedge
specifically the orange heads with bulbs attached on the side spew lava puddles. the ones that are relatively "featureless" compared to all the others are the ones that shoot dart-like projectiles
silk blaze
Blue’s raining bombs suck
rain sedge
it's the head slams too
silk blaze
At (relatively) lower heats the head slams are just where I get away from them and wait for them to be safely vulnerable, are the head slams themselves a bigger issue in damage or invulnerability?
rain sedge
@gaunt fiber can you explain the gilga and sword strats that you did? I feel like I simply cannot do it
gaunt fiber
Sure
I don't like gilga attack and I did not want to use ME either. So I went curse of longing, doom special
dash upper to victory, watch them die
Weak was applied with the mighty passion dash
Ruthless reflexes too
gaunt fiber
Credits to Hadesprofessor
I don't know if ruthless is an auto pick for gilga but for me, it is
For Zag sword, I was hoping for flurry slash tbh. ME is good if you don't want to play the aspect. I tried a bit of everything until I won
sly remnant
ruthless scales all damage and dash/status effects have difficulty getting access to + damage
gaunt fiber
Nem, HR brrr brrr double edge brr win
rain sedge
I don't like gilga attack and I did not want to use ME either. So I went curse o...
this strat is even less consistent than ME, right
gaunt fiber
Arthur : I regret this
gaunt fiber
this strat is even less consistent than ME, right
Nah, Doom and Maim is really strong on its own
gaunt fiber
it's gonna take some practice, it's not a safe move indeed
Also I rebind my special on LB/L1/ whatever for smoother upper dashes
rain sedge
yeah I rebind it to right trigger
how many tries did it take you for gilga and the swords?
not counting the dedge resets if you do that
gaunt fiber
No resets
spring kettle
Do you guys ever change bindings for different weapons?
Wondering if I should change my reload for hestia rail
gaunt fiber
Zag sword was painful and took me 15-20 tries and I had some experience from fresh file
spring kettle
I can never seem to clear without using all my DDs on zag sword
gaunt fiber
maybe a bit more with tartarus "kinda mad resets"
spring kettle
I feel like its aspect specific stuff does so little for the sword
rain sedge
yeah... I don't think I'm that committed to this thing to give it 20 resets on zag sword
hmm
BUT with flurry slash I suppose you can strap zeus chain lightning on it?
is it even that fast?
rain sedge
guess you're right
gaunt fiber
Dio's really nice
rain sedge
I'll leave arthur for last, I'll think of something
I could ping peachhead00 for advice too I guess
gaunt fiber
sorry @spring kettle I'm answering right after
silk blaze
My dashes have always been left trigger
spring kettle
I didn't notice how slow arthur was on lower heats, but on 20 heat with FO1, it definitely feels pretty slow
spring kettle
I run it by default for my weapons, good to know
sly remnant
i mean you always can the aspect is just significantly worse
gaunt fiber
For Arthur, the HR way with passion dash is fast enough for TD3. Otherwise, you could go facetank (lowering HL) and TD2 @rain sedge with some Heartbreak strike or divine strike
rain sedge
don't run FO on arthur
but at 40 heat, that means eating RI, AP, or EM4
sly remnant
i mean you can if you want
gaunt fiber
AP and a bit of RI does not hurt "too much"
rain sedge
For Arthur, the HR way with passion dash is fast enough for TD3. Otherwise, you ...
I'd take the facetank first I think
I suppose RI2 isnt the worst on arthur, isn't it?
rain sedge
because I can't take DC either
sly remnant
ye agreed
gaunt fiber
DC is nope indeed
spring kettle
Yeah, I think DC would be really bad on arthur
sly remnant
i'd just do RI2
gaunt fiber
I went FO2 tho
rain sedge
hmm. so seems like sword will just be harder in general
gaunt fiber
Do you guys ever change bindings for different weapons?
only reload on rail
rain sedge
I might just do more ME resets on gilga and give it a try
gaunt fiber
and yeah the gilga thing
rain sedge
if I can't clear gilga, I won't be clearing sword
rain sedge
I think the thing that sucks is that the dash-strike has 20 base damage
like, I can't play with that
gaunt fiber
I think the thing that sucks is that the dash-strike has 20 base damage
It does not kill numbskulls
It's trash
like
super garbage tier
sly remnant
at 50 you don't have a choice
rain sedge
and it's nowhere near fast enough for zeus attack shenanigans
unless I'm highrolling for hermes attack
full flame
i thought i was ok and then i scrolled here and i will come back later lmao
sly remnant
i don't click my left mouse button on gilgamesh
past field
i thought i was ok and then i scrolled here and i will come back later lmao
what do you mean?
full flame
i am only on 15 heat.
gaunt fiber
No shame
full flame
and i am struggling hehe
full flame
rain sedge
a lot of people at lower heat hang around here
full flame
oh okay 
full flame
aw thank you i just joined this server. but im shy
gaunt fiber
a lot of people at lower heat hang around here
For better or worse right lad
sly remnant
aw thank you i just joined this server. but im shy
i used to be shy here too
full flame
i only have 2 friends irl that play this so i wanted to find others
rain sedge
you'll get there. general guidance about heat stuff is pinned
full flame
thank you!
rain sedge
that might help you even at 15 heat
gaunt fiber
i used to be shy here too
Same, I felt like unqualified to even post here lmao
sly remnant
Same, I felt like unqualified to even post here lmao
tbf i'm still unqualified i'm just not shy anymore
gaunt fiber
I'm lucky that my guiding light was hanging around on #h1-builds-and-combat
gaunt fiber
tbf i'm still unqualified i'm just not shy anymore
50 heat cleared, qualified enough to me
full flame
gaunt fiber
the poison rats get me everytime...
I still hate them
gaunt fiber
50 heat is high roll deal with it
rain sedge
For better or worse right lad
I don't care about what heat you are as long as you don't say obnoxious smartass stuff
gaunt fiber
True
gaunt fiber
As usual we want names tho
rain sedge
I'll call it out next time it happens
rain sedge
and you have more aspects at 40 than me, you're qualified astaos
sly remnant
but i'm quite opinionated
gaunt fiber
I'll call it out next time it happens
counting on you
past field
I just saw the pinned message. Is doing EM4 for 32 heat really that rare? It's so much more fun and not that bad if you practice it.
rain sedge
i'm kind of a smartass
ya but you actually know what you're talking about, rather than saying unhelpful stuff just to appear smart
rain sedge
I just saw the pinned message. Is doing EM4 for 32 heat really that rare? It's s...
it's very rare, only 1 player here do it consistently at anything lower than 50 heat
gaunt fiber
DoN't GeT HiT
rain sedge
you'll find that with FO and HL, EM4 becomes so much harder
shy plinth
Tbh it just makes runs so much more stressful too
sly remnant
and don't forget good ol' TD3
EM4 and TD3 are very skill testing and in direct contrast with each other
rain sedge
even king doesn't do EM4 if he can help it right
did he even do EM4 at 58? I'm pretty sure not
and did baj do EM4 at the 57?
gaunt fiber
I need to practice it more sigh
sly remnant
i want to play it more
gaunt fiber
The thing is, if it's with charged skewer I feel boosted
I can with charged skewer
But yeah it's rough
And 50% health is why I value acorn so much even with the annoying summoned adds
sly remnant
EM4 warps the run for most aspects
gaunt fiber
I just crash into him phase 1
sly remnant
i mean one reason i love beo is that em4 is relatively free
rain sedge
the adds will just eat your acorn
gaunt fiber
you'll die in 1 hit
2 hits to be fair
rain sedge
the sneaks eat it, the doomstone eats it like nothing else, so you need that gorgon and skullcrusher
but the skullcrusher is the deadliest miniboss IMO
sly remnant
nah skullcrusher ez
gaunt fiber
sneak hard
sly remnant
sneak very hard
rain sedge
I must have died to skullcrusher more than all other minibosses combined
just meg it
since I learn how to meg the sneak it became fine-ish for me
silk blaze
Sneak so very hard
gaunt fiber
Sometimes I can get the doomstone locked behind a pillar, somehow
full flame
are most people playing on PC?
gaunt fiber
yeah
rain sedge
oh yeah i mean in the run, skullcrusher is the hardest one
at EM4 sneak is much harder
silk blaze
Most seem to be
full flame
i thought so. i'm playing through switch
silk blaze
Does the breakthrough into TD3 just take a lot of time spent at TD2 typically?
thorn jay
EM4 FO2 is kinda bs lmao
past field
I can say my usual 32 heat setup, though it varies a bit by weapon.
1 Hard Labour (1)
1 Lasting Consquences (1)
2 Convenience Fee (2)
3 Jury Summons (3)
4 Extreme Measures (10)
2 Calisthenics Program (2)
2 Benefits Package (5)
1 Middle Management (2)
1 Underworld Customs (2)
1 Forced Overtime (3)
1 Tight Deadline (1)
I take one or two levels of damage control instead of calisthenics on weapons that can deal with it easily (fists, chiron, etc)
For weapons that are good at clearing quickly, I take TD2 or TD3 and take away from calisthenics and/or jury summons.
silk blaze
Makes sense! I’ll keep that in mind as I try to hit 32, I’m pretty consistent at 24 so far
full flame
oh my goodness.
sly remnant
TD3 requires taking a lot of free rooms and understanding your aspect
silk blaze
2 benefits sounds rough though
full flame
thats amazing. i would die
past field
It might not be the easiest way to clear 32 heat, but it's definitely more fun having the EM4 Hades at the end
rain sedge
Makes sense! I’ll keep that in mind as I try to hit 32, I’m pretty consistent at...
32 heat advice is pinned
sly remnant
i do not recommend that pact for most weapons
thorn jay
TD3 jsut needs some getting used to. It's free heat once you get used to it
sly remnant
td3 is never free
past field
TD3 seems very difficult with EM4 with some weapons though
gaunt fiber
td3 is never free
I'm a speedy boi now
thorn jay
Ah with EM4 yeah, those 3 phases really take so much time
silk blaze
Most of my TD2 runs feel like they’d be doable in TD3 with 15-30 seconds more time save per area, though Styx is definitely its own case
gaunt fiber
TD3 seems very difficult with EM4 with some weapons though
Just don't take both
past field
Yeah, that's why I don't usually like TD3
though I've done TD3 and EM4 with Demeter and Arthur
gaunt fiber
it's doable, just not consistent
rain sedge
all my 40 was TD3 so far
gaunt fiber
all my 40 was TD3 so far
Nice!
thorn jay
Maybe with LC1. I play with LC4 so I don't like EM4
rain sedge
but yeah, 50+ is... a struggle
past field
but I usually find it more fun to play a slower, more difficult run than trying to go fast, even if it might not be the easiest way
rain sedge
even on eris I timeout sometimes on 50
sly remnant
TD3 and EM4 are fine until you start turning on DC, UC, AP, CP, and JS
past field
and I don't like how on TD3 sometimes you just lose to satyr sack RNG 😦
sly remnant
and I don't like how on TD3 sometimes you just lose to satyr sack RNG 😦
retweet
thorn jay
Yeah that's the annoying part.
rain sedge
and I don't like how on TD3 sometimes you just lose to satyr sack RNG 😦
retweet + @ baj on top of that
past field
But yeah, I imagine at really high heat it gets awkward because certain things have anti-synergy. DC, CP, JS all make TD3 very difficult to do. And the strategy of using Stubborn Defiance with 4 LC makes EM4 really difficult. I haven't tried them together but I imagine it's awful.
gaunt fiber
But yeah, I imagine at really high heat it gets awkward because certain things h...
Yeah you got it mate
silk blaze
I’ve tried EM4 at 10 heat with stubborn defiance and it doesn’t work well even then in my experience
silk blaze
My friend won it with charged shot
past field
I can kill a 32 heat FO1 EM4 Hades and only lose one death defiance some of the time but doing it on TD3 with the pressure of only having stubborn defiance seems still way out of reach
turbid bobcat
I keep trying to do 32 heat but it's so brutal - about 10 failed runs in a row now with the furthest I've gotten being Lernie
sly remnant
snake hard
full flame
snake hurt
turbid bobcat
with the right combination of hydra heads, there can be SO many projectiles coming at you all at once
thorn jay
Yeah. Have you had an attempt with divine dash?
spring kettle
it's the magma balls I fear most
thorn jay
You play with HS?
turbid bobcat
I've been changing up my heat settings every couple runs, but I haven't had divine dash lately since I'm running AP2 now. I had HS on earlier, but I took it off
trying to find what heat settings are more tolerable for me
rain sedge
snake hard
phrasing sir
sly remnant
LMFAO
turbid bobcat
lol
sly remnant
I've been changing up my heat settings every couple runs, but I haven't had divi...
do not run ap2 at 32
pls do not do that
spring kettle
maybe he's doing the diogenes challenge
thorn jay
Why is that challenge a thing?
turbid bobcat
it's just to free up other heat since I was getting destroyed with other settings, like HL and JS and DC - AP2 adds so much heat on its own so I don't have to take other stuff
shy gulch
its not worth it for ap2
turbid bobcat
like I said, I'm still figuring out what works best for me
shy gulch
you get no build
past field
having https://hades.gamepedia.com/Pact_of_Punishment open to check what they mean helps
turbid bobcat
that's what I do
sly remnant
(its also pinned)
shy gulch
my solution is to pour a few too many hours into this game lmao
past field
yes
full flame
yeah its pinned haha
thorn jay
HL5 is just like playing with no thick skin haha
sly remnant
my solution is to pour a few too many hours into this game lmao
don't attack me like this i'm having a good night
full flame
i just struggle memorizing this. ive put a decent amount of time in the game but i was doing the side quests stuff
turbid bobcat
HL5, LC4 is brutal
shy gulch
which is worse than no thick skin actually
sly remnant
hl5 lc4 is fine
turbid bobcat
I couldn't handle it so I moved the heat around
sly remnant
until fo gets turned on
gaunt fiber
HL5 is just playing at half health
ez
shy gulch
lmao
but yeah i'd really really recommend staying away from approval process as much as possible
it is: pain.
sly remnant
just run hl5 and get a lot of damage. enemies can't hit you if they are dead
turbid bobcat
I mean, I get further with it on than with other settings - with HL5, I can't even get passed the fury sisters
shy gulch
big brain
for 32 there are pacts where u dont need to take HL5 or AP2 tbh
there should be enough leniency
thorn jay
Yeah. The shift from DD to SD because of HL5 LC4 is the biggest playstyle shift I've made to beat 32 heat.
past field
See, I feel like that's the harder way to do 32 heat compared to what I do
but I know most people find my way harder
thorn jay
Yeah. Learning to dodge attacks is better than betting on RNG though. One is learnable and the other is based on luck.
past field
I don't feel like my way is based on luck at all???
thorn jay
The AP2 part at least
past field
oh, I don't do AP2 or even AP1
thorn jay
Oh wait. My reply was meant for thaecrasis lmao
edgy arrow
people who do well on AP2 don’t do it because of luck; they do it because they’re skilled enough that they don’t need luck
or because it’s low heat and builds are mostly there for memes and flavour
sly remnant
some weapons are legitimately good with ap2
like it doesn't hurt them as bad
some weapons only need hammers to go so boons aren't as necessary
edgy arrow
yeah that’s kinda my point
sly remnant
again ap2 takes a lot of skill
yea sorry i was agreeing with you
i don't think it came off that way
my b
halcyon flame
what's the best 20 heat setup?
cinder cave
do you mean easiest?
cinder cave
The braindead one I use
halcyon flame
for now i'm doing td2/mm/bp1/em3
cinder cave
is LC4 EM3 BP1 MM TD2
halcyon flame
which is 13 heat
cinder cave
the meta thing to do is to run SD
hearts still give you full hp for that so act as a kind of heal
halcyon flame
i should probably take the owl so i can get dds from athena
cinder cave
yeah there are ways to get more DDs
athena is pretty awesome in any run
you can also cheese a spare DD if you pick up the DD replacement boons with your SD on cooldown
halcyon flame
yeah, i heard
cinder cave
life affirmation from aphro is a big boon as well
halcyon flame
i should try to go for exclusive access so if athena offers me a dd boon i can guarantee that it's fully beneficial
cinder cave
I don't bother with exclusive access much anymore, personally
just don't find dio that worth it to include with LC4
halcyon flame
should i go for aphrodite so i can apply weak?
cinder cave
aphrodite is a really good god
she has access to some of the best duos
and some amazing support boons
cinder cave
weak is a strong effect but that's just a cherry on top
her strike and fllourish boons
give you the biggest + numbers in the game
halcyon flame
you're taking lots of damage and dying in tartarus and you're telling me 30% damage reduction isn't that useful??
cinder cave
life affirmation is great, heart rend is disgusting, i could go on
ha, well, as i say, it's really the cherry on top
halcyon flame
heart rend 😩 👌
i like how heart rend goes well on a lot of weapons/aspects
not just chiron or whatever
halcyon flame
is heart rend additive btw?
cinder cave
I believe it changes crit from a 3x multiplier to a 4.5x multiplier
distinction is important because crit is one of the few multiplicative effects in the game
technically base damage changes like Hestia act like multiplicative as well
everything else is additive (including dodge)
opal token
For Beo, I’m supposed to take +1 cast over epic 78% atk dmg boost? I’m distracted by the epic rarity here lol
true fable
yes take +1 cast
opal token
Thanks. Distracted by pretty purple colors and all
still spoke
what are the best modifiers for 32 heat?
I cant beat it lol, ||I always get all the way to Hades but I can never get past his second stage||
still spoke
ah I see, thanks
daring hedge
RI2 with AP2 often means you kinda just don't get a build lol
tidal flame
I mean yeah, but dang, I would hit give up on that dps. Solid effort is what I am trying to say.
daring hedge
thanks, yeah it was rough at times
never getting to pom frost strike or tidal dash either
painful
true fable
what weap?
tidal flame
zag shield
past field
I just had a 6m50s long Hades fight 😬
daring hedge
i've had one that lasted 8m lol
past field
With what weapon?
This was Hestia
I had extra effective weak and stygian soul so he wasn't doing much damage, I knew I just had to out-last him
daring hedge
mine was a 40 heat boonless run with hades spear
past field
also 2xCalisthenics and EM4 wasn't exactly speeding things up
dire steppe
what boons did you use
daring hedge
yeah
just had to play pretty cautious and the damage wasn't too amazing even with shackle
past field
what boons did you use
aphrodite on attack and special, with rocket bomb. Also had like 50% dodge chance
so I had all the defensive stuff, but not so great damage? It went well, just slow
daring hedge
also was before the shackle buff, so it was +80% instead of +100%
halcyon flame
on a scale of 1-10 how hard would it be to do a full run with a "Hades" build
hades aspect, sigil of the dead, no boons
tidal flame
Depends on the heat
Though no boon and no shackle would be a snooze fest
Even if it's totally doable on low enough heat.
halcyon flame
maybe certain mirror upgrades should also be disabled?
like instead of three dds you can only have 2 dds
edgy arrow
i was thinking of going RI4
halcyon flame
what about boiling blood?
edgy arrow
ohh yeah i see because hades only had 2
so i shouldn't completely disable it i get you
alright i'll turn everything off except boiling blood and 1 DD
i'd give myself 2 DDs if i was doing EM4
halcyon flame
extra health could be ok since hades himself has quite a lot of health lol
also fated authority because boonless lol
edgy arrow
actually i feel like this run should be EM4
for the aesthetic
imma gonna die on that fight tho because i haven't practiced it in a yonk
halcyon flame
and also because you're not gonna be doing much damage
the effect from hades spin attack barely lasts on hades himself
or maybe bosses for that matter
edgy arrow
imma give myself stygian soul as well
daddy keeps yeeting those skulls without killing me
daring hedge
hades has a weird inbetween cast since he doesn't need to pick them up but they pop out of you after some time
which is exclusive to infernal
you could pretty much go either way
halcyon flame
chaos grasp could possibly be ok here? since he actually sometimes throws out two skulls quickly
then again, boonless
tidal flame
Ik, but we are doing a personal challenge
daring hedge
didn't used to be
tidal flame
Kinda
tidal flame
Also there is no boonless rules officially
edgy arrow
not like i’m gonna win anyway
daring hedge
chaos also prevents you from having the super clean victory screen
edgy arrow
yeah that’s basically the reason lol
tidal flame
Should you avoid dark Thirst for that, too?
daring hedge
lol
halcyon flame
so taking a chaos boon prevents you from getting '100% Olympian-free'?
i feel like that should be changed considering that chaos is a chthonic god lol
edgy arrow
oh idk if it changes the message
it just puts something on your screen lol
half the fun of boonless is that all your victory screen has is hammers
halcyon flame
does sunken treasure from poseidon count as taking boons?
mossy zinc
Also there is no boonless rules officially
There are. 
tidal flame
No?
edgy arrow
nyaanyaa has a boonless category on her spreadsheet
i’ve never submitted to it but presumably there are rules
mossy zinc
You can take any boon you want, but you're not allowed to benefit from any boon. E.g. if you take a Cast boon from anyone, you can't use Cast.
tidal flame
Honestly I don't consider those rules official, the same way the spreadsheet isn't an official document for the game.
mossy zinc
That includes Master Chaos.
halcyon flame
tidal flame
Community things are community things. Don't let that dictate what you want to do lol.
edgy arrow
i mean, that spreadsheet is about as close to official as we’ve ever got lol
unless someone makes a boonless speedruning category or something
tidal flame
We are arguing semantics imo
Even speedrun rules aren't "official" in my mind.
If you want to submit
Follow the rules
static plover
do what's fun for you and if boonless for you includes chaos boons all the more power to you ^_^
edgy arrow
fair
halcyon flame
chaos was right
edgy arrow
also this hades keepsake is useless
halcyon flame
the olympians simply force their blessings upon you
edgy arrow
i’ve never wanted flurry jab more in my life
and i’ve wanted flurry jab pretty badly before
mossy zinc
That would be Olympian-less not boonless since you do have boons.
edgy arrow
yeah also it wouldn’t feel the same imo
like if someone did a hestia run with 5 chaos + attack% boons that doesn’t feel like boonless to me
tidal flame
the olympians simply force their blessings upon you
Which is ironic because not like you can refuse Chaos boon when you go down there anyway
edgy arrow
but like foxhope said; these are just fun challenges so it doesn’t hugely matter
mossy zinc
I don't think anyone's arguing that, anyway.
tidal flame
Is hammer a boon, technically?
Wait, no, practically
It's technically not a boon
But practically, it is
tidal flame
Base stats only run.
edgy arrow
that means no shackle as well
tidal flame
Shackle should be part of base stats because base stats is what you can start with
static plover
LC4 Harpes Feather Duster Base stats only run 
tidal flame
We just invented new things to argue over xD
halcyon flame
taking hammers doesn't prevent you from getting 100% olympian-free
static plover
neither does taking taking chaos boons
tidal flame
LC4 Harpes Feather Duster Base stats only run <:squirtdevious:472124054569222144...
At some point, we will get to freshfile lmao
static plover
you're not wrong fox 😂
tidal flame
Freshfile boonless no hammer
mossy zinc
Why doesn't Harpy Feather Duster remove all traps?
tidal flame
God blesz
tidal flame
True true
edgy arrow
oh wow boonless pro strat: do erebus gates and get hit on purpose
static plover
asphodel with no lava, that'd be a huge Pog
mossy zinc
Oooh. Just saw there's a test branch update. Very nice.
static plover
possible balance changes and bug fixes
edgy arrow
what’s the swift flourish issue?
static plover
(I'm assuming haven't opened up the test branch yet)
daring hedge
@tidal flame i'm getting scolded for not blocking enough in the zag shield 51 run 😔
tidal flame
Lmao noob
Using shield and not block
Might as well use sword lol
Oh wait you did that
halcyon flame
oh wow boonless pro strat: do erebus gates and get hit on purpose
plus easy heal 😎
daring hedge
lol
static plover
thunder flourish can crit with PP now, neat
halcyon flame
<@!162305901892599809> i'm getting scolded for not blocking enough in the zag sh...
how dare you not spend 4 minutes of the run in total holding block
tidal flame
Isn't atticor on this server?
daring hedge
yeah
i conceded that there were some moments where i could have blocked instead of dodging but yeah like
it can waste time and bull rush isn't boosted by zag shield's bonus
and i got dashing wallop, so
halcyon flame
honestly just make literally everything crit with pp
tidal flame
I'll give that comment the benefits of the doubt and regard it as a strong neg.
I don't like the tone though, but whatev.
halcyon flame
you're telling me thanatos' instakill attacks can crit and do 35000+ damage but not thunder bolts?
daring hedge
yeah i initially thought it was kinda rude but i'll try to assume it's in a more playful tone
i hope
static plover
thunder flourish not criting with pp was a bug
halcyon flame
yeah it was a joke, don't take it the wrong way tailesque 
tidal flame
Yeah they seem to frequent this channel, likely a joke.
Anyway, someone asks about max heat.
I'm also curious what's your answer lol
halcyon flame
how to do 63 ehat
daring hedge
i never know how to answer those
halcyon flame
step one: don't
daring hedge
because like, theoretically it's absolutely possible, but requires such insane luck, grinding, skill, etc.
that i can say yes, but... barely a yes
tidal flame
Technically yes, I guess.
halcyon flame
if one day you successfully cleared 63 heat would you then move on to hell mode?
shy plinth
Only thing you have left is superdad right
daring hedge
superdad was in the 60
halcyon flame
superdad + superspeed + superstrength
daring hedge
60 was only missing the last two levels of RI
daring hedge
so i could keep my SD and extra dash
daring hedge
yeah, i heard from him briefly that he was working in a medical capacity, which of course during the pandemic is going to take a lot of time away from you
but beyond that i have no clue
halcyon flame
oh wow
shy plinth
😦
halcyon flame
hope it goes well for them
daring hedge
yeah, i miss seeing him around
tidal flame
Yeah, he used to be a regular here
shy plinth
Also @tidal flame for what it's worth, not sure how Nyaa feels about this, but I can add as many categories to the sheet as needed or we can spin up a diff sheet for challenges or w/e
None if it has to be "official" but if there are things going around that people wanna do, we can document it somehow
Just one more checkbox/dropdown on the form
Or even people just dropping what they did in the notes
tidal flame
I think that would be a lot of categories
edgy arrow
there’s already a notes section where people can put random stuff
shy plinth
The notes probably works and then if something becomes popular enough we make it a checkbox
tidal flame
I don't think we need to add anything tbh.
But thanks for the suggestion though
:D
shy plinth
Yeah just saw what you mentioned earlier about all the diff challenge stuff
Tbh the important part is the automation
And then the contents people can decide amongst themselves
tidal flame
I get that, but as a viewer (I actually haven't added anything myself), I'm quite happy with what we have.
Thank you.
halcyon flame
can em4 hades heal if there are no urns?
daring hedge
nope
tidal flame
I don't know because there's never not any urn.
You can shoot the urns though
To stop the healing somewhat
daring hedge
his heals come from glowing urns, so he can't if there isn't one
shy plinth
I get that, but as a viewer (I actually haven't added anything myself), I'm quit...
#h1-high-heat-strategies message you added one thing and that's what matters
tidal flame
Of course
daring hedge
basically after a certain period he "consumes" the urn's power and gets his heal in one number
if you destroy it fast enough, he's denied that heal opportunity
tidal flame
I read that question more like can Hades use heal move if there is no urn.
But your way makes more sense.
daring hedge
oh i'm pretty sure he makes sure urns are present before even attempting the heal
i think
halcyon flame
so i should definitely destroy the urns in phase 2
definitely gonna use divine dash for that lol
daring hedge
there's kind of a grace period after destroying them where they don't hurt you
so you can, even with melee weapons, hit them and dash away real quick
daring hedge
yeah if there's some background to souls of the dead being stored in amphora, i haven't learned about it before
gaunt fiber
LC4 Harpes Feather Duster Base stats only run <:squirtdevious:472124054569222144...
I did it with along with dashless Achilles 
Wow Hadesprofessor did GY again
"to be recognized for unseeded"
Damn, what a liar. He said on stream that it was in my honor
mossy zinc
He had to be recognized for unseeded to honor you.
gaunt fiber
wow
halcyon flame
what keepsake did tailesque use for 60 heat?
vital grove
Anvil of Courage
Lol, just look at the video, it's a good way to learn something too
sly remnant
Just try not to fall asleep between room loads
shy gulch
lmao
daring hedge
Just try not to fall asleep between room loads
tidal flame
Lmao
green citrus
Lol 5 sack arthur run. Rip.
Was it TD3? I feel that lol
rain sedge
thanks man
opal token
@green citrus yeah 😦
green citrus
Can't post photos in here? Savage. Imma PM you @rain sedge
rain sedge
you can post the link to the photo here
green citrus
Am I showing my age by wanting to use Photobucket? 🙂
tidal flame
just imgur it
vital grove
You mean you're not hosting it on MySpace?
vital grove
Was almost expecting an ap2 lol, but yeah that looks good
green citrus
You can get away using RI pretty heavy on Arthur too but i like my rolls. 🙂
vital grove
How about Td2 JS3?
green citrus
JS3? Heck nah my dude way too slow cause of enemy count
vital grove
Aight
green citrus
I am running this pact for speed though so there's some other ways to just get completion but
But BP2 and JS3 is pretty rough
vital grove
What's your average speed?
green citrus
I have an 11:12 PB running that pact but I'd say average 11:30-13s
vital grove
Ah, that's very fast for a 40
mossy zinc
Keepsakes?
green citrus
If I super high roll and just run unsafe I can get it to sub 11 but it takes some grinding.
I have started Arti and Athena, it depends on how I'm feeling
vital grove
Aphro?
green citrus
Athena is the safe play cause I can pickup Divine Strike or Divine Dash in chamber 1
Aphro is a consideration after Athena start but Athena is just the safer play
mossy zinc
Sub 13 with Owl Pendant start?
green citrus
Def mad lad shenanigans going on in my channel lol
gaunt fiber
Always rarity on Eurydice even if he has like 8 boons
green citrus
Lemme see what I started on that 11:12
gaunt fiber
rare crop gambles
vital grove
So you always go for divine strike?
green citrus
Off rip, I actually have seen success going either divine strike or divine dash. If it's divine dash, I want a solid attk boon pretty early. If it's divine strike, I still want divine dash lol.
green citrus
Sub 13 with Owl Pendant start? <:thanthink:669246004142538753>
Yes, I did start Owl Pendant on the 11:12
Got Divine Dash
mossy zinc
But do you get sub 13 consistently with Owl Pendant start?
green citrus
Haven't run it enough to tell for sure, but I'm sure I could. Divine Strike is really strong on Arthur as well
sly remnant
big baseball bat
mossy zinc
Interesting. Thank you.
spring kettle
You guys start with owl pendant?
I save it for asphodel so I at least have a decent attack boon first
so i'm not stuck leveling divine dash
green citrus
It's a bit weapon dependent, I think you still have the right mindset most of the time. And if you take divine strike, it's still good. I run AP1 so starting the pendant gives me two choices off rip that I want.
So it's a little more consistent instead of resetting if I don't get Deadly Strike from arti 🙂
shy gulch
yeah I don’t start Athena keepsake too often
I do on sword a lot bc sword is dangerous
gaunt fiber
The owl pendant start works with everything, Athena's core boons are amazing
It's a safe choice
Because as you already know the Eternal Rose is the true path
shy gulch
i almost always take it into asphodel but starting with it is weapon dependent imo
TD3 in tartarus can be rough, so i like to have the start to my build early
opal token
You know I just realized what if the various keepsakes are what actually give the boons to Zag. So like you could imagine him by the end of the run dangling an owl pendant, holding a wine goblet and a rose, with a lightning bolt shoved up his ass. And thus, Zagreus becomes super powerful
gaunt fiber
i almost always take it into asphodel but starting with it is weapon dependent i...
Tbh weapons that don't do too well with it are the exceptions (rails besides Hestia, maybe some specific cast weaps). But you're right, it's tough for TD3
rain sedge
I got dad to 20% final HP with gilga splitting bolt, and died
I ran out of summons and didn't notice, would've had it
this weapon actually makes me wanna quit lol
daring hedge
you can summon in styx just fine even without a spindle if you just abstain from using it in tart
gaunt fiber
Yeah that's true
spring kettle
Meg best companion
gaunt fiber
I just assume you use it in Tartarus
spring kettle
I like saving two summons for styx
daring hedge
i pretty much no longer use summon in tartarus anymore. it's usually one in aspho, two in elysium, and two in styx including dad
sometimes i don't use it in aspho at all and have an extra
opal token
Asphodel use for miniboss usually?
spring kettle
Sneak is such a timewaster
daring hedge
yeah, guaranteed going to use it for huge voidstone barge
shy gulch
sneak is the only tart miniboss i summon against these days
daring hedge
depends with power couple, and almost never for witches at high heat
waxen relic
Just make it a habit to look at your number of of Summons when you enter Rooms you might wanna summon.
opal token
Is consensus Meg or Ant companion these days?
daring hedge
then there are occasional runs where, if i didn't use summon for the miniboss, i'll use it to phase lernie if i'm in trouble there
shy gulch
i feel like either meg or antos is fine?
daring hedge
yeah those are the best ones overall imo
sly remnant
both fine. i'm just so used to meg from speedruns
shy gulch
im bad enough at lernie that i often panic summon LOL
waxen relic
Antos is cool when you're stuck in Tart anyways 
gaunt fiber
Yeah I'm just used to trying to go fast now
spring kettle
lava ball lernie is the worst
rain sedge
I had to use antos since I die on furies so often
since usually by that point my build hasn't come online yet
but that run, I had to use it on fury and lernie, and asterius miniboss, and heroes, and power couple
because I was like so close to dying on all of them
looks like the only way I'll do it is with ME, but it's so tiring high rolling it
shy gulch
what are you doing?
gaunt fiber
Oh you're a Antos boyo too
gaunt fiber
what are you doing?
Lmao
rain sedge
what are you doing?
gilga 40
if you got better ideas I'm all ears
cus I've tried blade dash, splash dash, ME, zeus lightning
the closest I got was that splitting bolt zeus lightning
but there was an ME run that I died because athena cutely spawned greatshields on my trial
shy gulch
dunno but id probably not go for something as high roll as ME at 40, feels kinda rough
tho if u go for it, id probably recommend CF1
rather than CF2
honest kernel
my best time is 34 min
rain sedge
I did CF1 for the ME
honest kernel
I have won the game twice
rain sedge
super rough, idk what to do tbh
shy gulch
are u starting athena
rain sedge
starting ares for the doom attack
shy gulch
actually whats ur pact, and where are you dying?
rain sedge
like, everything maxed, no JS/CP/RI/AP
EM3
pretty standard
dying at furies mostly, or lernie
but even if I get past that, without ME my damage is so lacking
and heroes/hades will just ruin me in an extended fight
idk. I'm gonna give it 1 more night to try and I'm gonna check out
shy gulch
one thing u might be able to try is TD2 with some more JS, makes rooms a bit longer but you can afford to play them safer
can help in tartarus so u have more health going into furies
ive been doing that a bit recently
gaunt fiber
Funny thing : a DC2 numbskull only takes 4 gilga dash strikes to die
shy gulch
LUL
rain sedge
I think the "playing safe" part becomes really hard for me
I think what makes this aspect so hard is the way dashing works on it
gaunt fiber
Have you tried the dash upper Doom shenanigans?
rain sedge
so you dash in a shorter distance right? and when you dash-strike, you only deal 20 base damage, so I'm trying to avoid that
but at the same time, the normal attack animation has such a long windup, and sometimes I can't dash to cancel that
rain sedge
Have you tried the dash upper Doom shenanigans?
I don't think I want to use the maim on bosses tbh, that +50% enemy damage is harsh
rain sedge
You feel like you can't?
yea exactly
gaunt fiber
Yeah but you have so many dashes
Maim and curse of longing allows you to hit once and RUN AWAY
rain sedge
like I know in theory I do, but in practice dashing to safety becomes hard
daring hedge
just get divine dash and divine strike and spam dash-strikes
gaunt fiber
And ruthless reflexes allows you to make some mistakes too
rain sedge
just get divine dash and divine strike and spam dash-strikes <:squirtdevious:472...
I got a hermes 30% ASPD boon with athena attack and blade dash one run, but it still doesnt work as well because the attack is still slow
and the dash strike is 20 base damage
daring hedge
yeah i'm pretty much joking
rain sedge
I feel like the blade dash strat would work better with the ares legendary but I didn't get it on that run
dire steppe
hermès attack speed doesn’t affect dash strikes i think
rain sedge
yeah I was attacking normally between blade dashes that run
guess I'll just do more ME runs
gaunt fiber
Try curse of longing
dire steppe
The scientific name for curse of longing is spaghettification
vital grove
I love how everyone just ignores the new guy
dire steppe
youre calling me a new guy? i have no idea who you are lol
gaunt fiber
Rigged is not new nor ignored
vital grove
No, Exivial
rain sedge
Try curse of longing <:shadegrief:520448187358642194>
I mean it's just as high-rolly as ME, while being less effective
gaunt fiber
Woops
vital grove
I was going through the chat and 15 minutes ago 😏
gaunt fiber
I feel bad now
vital grove
To be fair I don't know if there was anything to have a conversation about
gaunt fiber
Well I don't see a link to the discussion either
sly remnant
i imagine its like me in that i said something first and then stayed quiet for another week
gaunt fiber
I'll nectar them
vital grove
59 heat
shy gulch
having done 64 heat
dire steppe
has anyone done exactly 59 heat
gaunt fiber
@rain sedge it's effective and less high roll than ME since passion dash is a prerequisite
vital grove
Probably Tail lol
rain sedge
I don't think I can clear without divine dash
dire steppe
i thought he did 58 and 60
vital grove
Baj is there somewhere too
mossy zinc
Because as you already know the Eternal Rose is the true path
This is why you're the second smartest person in this channel. 
gaunt fiber
Lmao
dire steppe
i should do a run where i have the eternal rose on always but take fated authority and avoid getting any courtney boons
mossy zinc
I should block you.
sly remnant
i should do a run where i have the eternal rose on always but take fated authori...
if only there were an aspect of perseus
dire steppe
do i smell a new monthly challenge
sly remnant
have to kill power couple in the run too
rain sedge
What did you do for your gilga 40 nya?
dire steppe
have to kill power couple in the run too
Thanatos dusa and meg companions are banned
mossy zinc
ME.
shy gulch
a true gamer
mossy zinc
Pretty sure I just started with Divine Dash and happened to run into it.
It's not my fault, okay? 
vital grove
Perseus run should carry the feather duster in liue of a severed gorgon head keepsake.
opal token
I’m only allowed in here bc of my natural hotness. Can’t do high heat for beans.
mossy zinc
Don't do it for beans. Do it for yourself.
vital grove
Don't believe in yourself, Wump. Believe in me, who believes in you.
stoic carbon
beans?
true fable
beans
waxen relic
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/802294705366761472/20210122225040_1.jpg Finally had time and luck to do the thing. Even got it recorded, gonna submit it tommorow
gaunt fiber
Nice, congrats!
sly remnant
beo nice!!
rain sedge
very yikes setup, congrats!
turbid bobcat
oof mirrorless 32 - that sounds like hell
gaunt fiber
Go back to yellow now
waxen relic
Go back to yellow now
why? Bastion good
rain sedge
that's where we are <:squirtheh:456913427563282433>
any channel with the devil is hell
o hai @mossy zinc
gaunt fiber
It messes up with my recognition settings
waxen relic
think i'm basically the only brown one, where's the problem
gaunt fiber
Atticor is yellow.
waxen relic
ah well maybe tommorow. gn ya'll
mossy zinc
Congratulations, and good night! 
mossy zinc
o hai <@!311477984886521856>
Hmm? 
shy gulch
mirrorless 32 with a cast weapon? impressive, congrats
sly remnant
@waxen relic would appreciate the video dm'd to me. things to learn about beo and all that
mossy zinc
I don't think TD2 is an issue at all. TD3 is.
dire steppe
TD4, 3 minute per biome
mossy zinc
delete before Tyler can read them
mossy zinc
What's wrong with repeatedly kicking you to the ground?
mossy zinc
Are you a bot? <:squirtyay:456913427550699552>
dire steppe
test branch update: removed aphrodite
opal token
Potentially dumb question: I got Athena Strike and Ares special and have Merciful End (just finished Tartarus)
Do I really want ME here? Oh I’m on Arthur
Like...I almost want 400g more
Bc I only special once or twice
gaunt fiber
I cleared 40 Arthur only thanks to ME
opal token
with ares on...attack tho?
gaunt fiber
Yup.
opal token
Ares special with ME seems good but not exciting
sly remnant
could get divine dash and trigger doom that way
gaunt fiber
(don't go ME on Arthur)
opal token
Now you confused me. Earlier comment was a joke? Lol
gaunt fiber
Correct, boyo
I tried it and tbh you don't want it
you can definitely clear
but it's just painful
opal token
Okay. I think I’m just selling it to UC then for the gold
opal token
Is there something mechanically weird with Drunken Dash I should know? Someone mentioned something the other day
sly remnant
its all hangover. the most recently applied stack will apply its damage to all the stacks under it
so if you apply 4 stacks of 30 damage with dio call to a target and a 5th stack of hangover for 7 damage. all the stacks will deal 7 damage
opal token
Thanks
dawn cedar
A question for the council
I've been slowly incrementing heat levels across the weapons on every run, my sword is on like 6 or 7 at this point
Should I just say screw it and up the heat further?
Or is it better to ease yourself into it with progression
sly remnant
Do you want to up the heat further than one at a time?
if so
do it
if not
don't
you'll learn things playing any weapon.
whether its at 0 heat or 64 heat
shy gulch
either way works really, just do what you feel is best
dawn cedar
aight, I just wasnt sure if it made a difference
opal token
You still get rewards consecutively. So you win at 10 Heat you’ll get 7 Heat bounties and then win at 10 Heat again you get the 8 Heat bounties etc
For what it’s worth
If you want to play higher heat, it’s worth getting used to EM3, Middle Management, Underworld customs and timers
Oh and the benefit package one
shy gulch
if u want some personal experience, i went up 1 by 1 for about 3? or maybe 4? weapons until i got all the bounties i needed and maxed everything
then i started jumping around
dawn cedar
yeah I think I'll do that
spring kettle
Especially for rama bow
thorn jay
Is it worth replacing the tidal dash with hunter dash?
Breaking Wave and Mirage Shot are the only other poseidon boons i have
thorn jay
Rama bow is actually pretty strong wow...
daring hedge
Is it worth replacing the tidal dash with hunter dash?
yes; tidal dash only makes your triple+perfect shot setup harder to pull off on normal enemies
thorn jay
If you're right beside an enemy, can you actually have all three of your wide arrows hit an enemy?
daring hedge
yes
thorn jay
That's insane. Even better than twin shot
true fable
both are good
thorn jay
This is my fastest ever bow run and it's on 32 heat
thorn jay
This could've been my fastest run even if I didn't 3 sack styx, sad
daring hedge
tail out of curiosity which do you prefer
it's always a hard choice, but i think i might slightly prefer twin at high heat because it's more flexible in problem areas like elysium
with triple you can sometimes waste time and energy trying to get your perfect shotguns off, while with twin you just take a lot more opportunities to attack
thorn jay
Is that possible with the other bows? I think max is 2 out of 3 with triple shot based on experience
daring hedge
pretty sure you can still triple shotgun with the others, it's just a lot harder to do consistently
you basically have to be inside them
green citrus
Yeah you can shotgun with triple shot on zag bow but it's basically melee weapon
thorn jay
Ohhh i see. I must have never positioned it well or I don't see the damage numbers clearly lol
green citrus
I mean it's just super hard to do with not Rama lol
thorn jay
Yeah that much is true at least
If I wanna push for 40 heat, which pacts should I activate next?
For 32 heat, I'm most comfortable with
HL5
LC4
CF2
EM3
BP2
MM
UC
TD3
Maybe FO1 since that's what I played with before at 20 heat so that's 3 heat.
daring hedge
if you're going up to 40, i'd definitely recommend getting used to FO
both levels of it
thorn jay
Oof that's tough. Although it seems like that's the next most reasonable pacts for 6 heat
For the last 2? DC2? Or like JS2 or CP2 or JS1 CP1
daring hedge
JS1/2 usually isn't that bad there
and yeah, DC2 almost always except for certain aspects like arthur
would definitely avoid CP2 if you can
thorn jay
Is DC2 doable with hera?
daring hedge
i'd say yes, but still annoying
thorn jay
Since i'm planning to do 40 heat for all bow aspects
daring hedge
you can kinda use special to strip hearts before going in with loaded shots
thorn jay
That'll definitely slow down clear so I'd have to take more mid shops and less trials
JS3 FO1 DC2 for the last 8 heat? Or will JS3 be too much for TD3
daring hedge
yep, high heat TD3 really makes you take free rooms whenever possible most of the time
i'd still recommend just going for FO2 here
thorn jay
Yeah seems like no other way. Alright i'll practice running on FO2, I just hope I don't run into speeder wringers lol
daring hedge
it's a blanket adjustment that's worth it for the heat you get
can maybe take a bit to get used to but after a while it feels like the default speed
thorn jay
Yeah. That's what I noticed with FO1 although I'm well aware FO2 is a much higher jump from FO0->FO1
daring hedge
same
that's why i really think they should get into it sooner rather than later, even now
daring hedge
yeah, going above 40 without ever really having done FO2 would present a pretty hard wall i'd imagine
thorn jay
Yeah. I'm gonna do practice runs at 24 heat with HL5 EM3 BP2 FO2 to kinda simulate the movement and damage at least
edgy arrow
seems reasonable
green citrus
Yeah I got used to FO2 super early for some reason and I'm at the point where it's comfortable on Arthur so you'll get there. My 40 heat pact is here: https://imgur.com/a/pNKwOuQ but I also am running for speed so I don't want extra health or enemies. But it gives you a reference for sword if you're interested.
daring hedge
yeah, that's a good pact to start with. you can get rid of AP1 and put those points into stuff like DC, or JS depending on aspect
thorn jay
Yeah, those are my boons for 32 heat minus AP1 and FO2. I was also considering AP1 as well and just let RNGesus take the wheel
But so far my FO2 runs havent been going well. Some BP2 FO2 HL5 combinations are really nasty
vital grove
You could potentially go shackle ri1 ap2
tidal flame
Opinions on using calls on EM4?
Some calls are just too colorful and I can't see anything lol
Worst offender is Dio imo
Can't see pots, can't see skulls, can't see spear thrust, :(
vital grove
Athena 😏
waxen relic
@sly remnant RI4 Beo is in the Sheet now. Accidentally butchered the quality more than intended. Somehow ended up as 360p only. Imma change some settings for the next time.
edgy arrow
oh lit
waxen relic
No? just with german network connections
waxen relic
It's big and has wall-slams
edgy arrow
sure but you don't get to use it that often
true fable
i was joking
since we usually make fun of schad for his technological limitations
pos cast aoe is still very big
do not underestimate it
aoe means better cast efficiency
waxen relic
Just don't go for Mirage-shot anymore. That ain't worth it
edgy arrow
i mean, it isn't taking pos cast that surprised me, but forcing it to start
not really arguing, it obviously worked out
true fable
what else do you take? shackle?
i like poseidon cast for poseidon cast's sake tbh at this point
a lot of his boons are just generally good for beowulf
waxen relic
The aoe of the base-cast is really small in comparison
true fable
^
edgy arrow
when i did it i forced arty for deadly strike
but that was 8 heat
so not really saying anything
true fable
poseidon cast aoe can hit 4 lernie heads if you space it right
waxen relic
And i kinda dream of getting Seastorm sometime. Should trigger on Attacks and Rushes too right?
Well priority is to fill Cast, Attack and Call
true fable
strangely enough
it procs on attacks and rushes
not on the cast
as far as i can tell that is a bug but i put it in #test-branch-discussion so we'll see if anything comes of it
vital grove
Flood Flare doesn't trigger sea storm? Yeah definitely a bug then
Wonder if curse of drowning has any applications for Beo
edgy arrow
lol why
halcyon flame
can you even get curse of drowning if you're using beo or hera?
waxen relic
Think it does the normal CoD stuff just after your rush, and therefore locks your casts and is pretty terrible
gaunt fiber
Opinions on using calls on EM4?
I really like lesser call when I'm off guard or late for a double sweep
chilly sun
edgy arrow
nice