h1-high-heat-strategies

[alpine sleet]

Legacy if im going like ME

[quartz mantle]

I prefer Pride for consistent boon buffs

Plus with AP2 you're less likely to get any duo's that spawn regardless

[alpine sleet]

Yuh^

Pride is just more consistent imo

[mossy zinc]

Legacy for most runs.

[alpine sleet]

Oop

[sly remnant]

i agree that if you go eternal rose start you should run legacy as almost all of aphro's duos are insane

[quartz mantle]

Ok but consider

Purple Life Affirmation

and Purple Aphro attack/special

[alpine sleet]

Purple apheo booms mmm

[sly remnant]

i mean i like god's pride too

but i can absolutely see nyaanyaa's logic

[alpine sleet]

Yea I agree

Some duo boons are nutty

[sly remnant]

like

smouldering air? heart rend?

[alpine sleet]

Yup

[night belfry]

I think if you need to purge, then that definitely makes it a bit more valuable

[alpine sleet]

Heart rend is v strong

[sly remnant]

also + percentage on aphro boons are severely reduced in effectiveness

[spring kettle]

Parting shot (for non cast builds) and her duo with Demeter are her worst duos

[sly remnant]

and demeter/aphro duo is the only actively bad one

[spring kettle]

Yeah, I’m not sure how you’re supposed to make it work

[quartz mantle]

You can aim it better theoretically

just be near enemies

[sly remnant]

you can do it with poseidon sword and talos

but its still just actively worse than crystal clarity

[quartz mantle]

True

Speaking of Aphro duos I've been thinking about something

If you have ME and Curse of Longing and a fast attacking Deflect skill (Like rail or fist Athena attack)

Apply Weak to a boss and Doom

couldn't you just consistently hit them with the deflect attack without having to reapply doom?

and deal loads of damage really quickly

[waxen relic]

If that actually works, you'll only approach dealing the doom-damage twice, because it should halve the damage after every activation. Not that i ever confirmed that. 1 +
1/2 + 1/4 ..

[dire steppe]

It doesn’t work, ME kills the entire CoL chain

but also in response to atticor, ME also adds 40 damage so

[vital grove]

Best ME vehicle is aspect of Baj

Doom special, dash/attack

[true fable]

or doom attack special/dash

[vital grove]

Pulverizing blow might even ME twice

[true fable]

the extreme fun option is doom attack, athena special, arty cast, passion dash

for DR HR and ME

[vital grove]

Anyway, some thoughts from Rama

Drunken flourish is pretty nice

Epic boost talent and bad influence is great with JS3

The damage boost is always up pretty much

I even got Splitting as my final boon of the run (blackout was crossed out lol)

+4 arrow special hammer worked out really well because of the hangover.

[dire steppe]

my favorite is demeter because it’s a massive crutch on bosses

[quartz mantle]

I find Zeus special to be pretty nice with Rama

But Dio special could definitely be stronger for bosses

[pallid flicker]

im not necessarily playing on high heat (i just recently got into double digits) but do people usually go up by each heat, so do 9, win, then 10, win, 11 etc. or do you just jump around?

[true fable]

i did each one up to 20, then 32, 36, and 40

[pallid flicker]

so basically milk it for bounties and then jump around once your set

[true fable]

yeah thats just what i did

i know some people who jumped straight from like 10 to 32 and from there onward

[pallid flicker]

ok thx

[rain sedge]

Oh haelian is trying to beat king's 40 heat record

[stiff aurora]

I tried to do 16->32 a lot, but never managed to do it. I put a step at something in the mid-20s in(26 I think) and I just managed 32

[weak gyro]

Eris Rail with Cluster Comb/Rocket + Poseidon absolutely destroys everything.

[sly remnant]

he's got a promising hera run right now

[daring hedge]

i've been haunting him

[true fable]

lol

if hael does it that'd be fun

[daring hedge]

yeah lol

[true fable]

i feel like he PBs every time he races someone

so you just need to race him on strim now tail

its almost like hes a speedrunner

[daring hedge]

oh no

[true fable]

the commentator thing is a farce

[stiff aurora]

rip

[daring hedge]

we got a rip'er

[sly remnant]

f

[true fable]

how did he die

[daring hedge]

power couple

[true fable]

im at work i need the juicy deets

[rain sedge]

the power couple is the hardest miniboss in high heat

[true fable]

oh nice

[stiff aurora]

I hate power couple on MM

[true fable]

yeah it really is

[rain sedge]

standard, I have died that way so many times

[true fable]

my least favorite thing is accidentally dash attacking across the wave

[rain sedge]

even worse than old bull man I think

[rain sedge]

yep

[daring hedge]

it's super rare for me to not lose an SD for high heat power couple

kind of a given a lot of the time if i'm going fast

[stiff aurora]

you also have so little time to deal damage with chiron because you have to waste so much time dodging

or in general really

[true fable]

ive been doing rando 32 heat runs for channel point stuff

and i swear

[daring hedge]

before i did high heat i didn't understand this or casting after dash

[true fable]

the randomizer

is sadistic

[daring hedge]

so i was always so frustrated like why is this hurting me

[true fable]

i got JS3/CP2/AP2/DC2/TD3

on gilgamesh

[daring hedge]

big no

[sly remnant]

rip bright's streak

[true fable]

made it to dad before timing out

what streak lol

the other day i got "randomized" into a 32 mirrorless zeus run

[sly remnant]

zeus probably better than most at it

[true fable]

yeah it felt pretty ok just died to timer

[rain sedge]

casting after dash cancels it too?

[true fable]

i think any attack does it

[daring hedge]

yeah but i don't think it's as bad as dash-strikes

but if you're mashing cast right after dashing you're gonna get hit at the end of it

[true fable]

you basically become vulnerable after you attack

its why you can do late dash strikes and still i frame stuff

[daring hedge]

the difference between any heat flurry jab and high heat flurry jab

[true fable]

intoresting

i need to do more high heat spear

havent touched it since 45

[daring hedge]

yeah it's just that like

you can only do the usual dash-strike spam on unarmored regular foes

[sly remnant]

32 heat doesn't have a single spear entry yet

[true fable]

right

the ones you can stunlock

[daring hedge]

and luckily flurry jab played normally without that is still super good

[true fable]

tyler my anyheat pb for achilles is just below 9 minutes

i dont think id get a competitive time with it on 32

[rain sedge]

isnt achilles kinda fast?

even at 32?

[true fable]

yeah

[rain sedge]

flurry jab/zeus stuff

[sly remnant]

its hella dangerous tho

[true fable]

just not for me lol

im still learning it kinda

[sly remnant]

if i wasn't learning sword right now

[true fable]

its basically like eris but sometimes you have a big cast

[sly remnant]

i'd do it

[rain sedge]

the way of the retrash

I can see you, approaching retrash meditating under a waterfall

"teach me, senpai"

"to learn the sword... is to learn suffering"

lmfao

[true fable]

i did that

except it was twitch chat

so less dramatic

[rain sedge]

learning from twitch chat weirdchamp

[true fable]

retrash was twitch chat

lol

[rain sedge]

ah

[dire steppe]

i need to redo sword 32 without cheese duo boons

[sly remnant]

i mean sword is fine at 32

[mossy zinc]

Probably depends on aspect because Dash-Strike hurtboxes vary. In my experience, casting after dash is worse than attacking because you could do a regular Attack after the Dash without getting hit, but Cast startup has a very big hurtbox for some reason.

[stiff aurora]

what qualifies as cheese ?

[dire steppe]

ME

[sly remnant]

sword at fast 32 is a lot harder

[stiff aurora]

idk just ignore that you have a sword asnd play hunting blades?

[rain sedge]

@true fable haelian just said there's a $150 bounty if you can beat the lucifer record with super soaker

[dire steppe]

merciful end

[tidal flame]

Swiss

[dire steppe]

is cheese

[true fable]

yes jdn has it up in the speedcord

[daring hedge]

i could see nem and poseidon going really fast at 32 honestly

[true fable]

do you know how stupid that record is

[sly remnant]

yea but i'm bad at sword

[true fable]

its like a 7:2x on soaker

[tidal flame]

I thought it was $100?

[rain sedge]

what

is that even possible

[stiff aurora]

how????

[true fable]

he got splitting bolt and sea storm by mid asphodel

[rain sedge]

is that current patch? how did he do it??

[true fable]

watch the run

its incredible

[rain sedge]

ok

[mossy zinc]

He did it by getting Splitting Bolt and Sea Storm by mid Asphodel.

[tidal flame]

What does he put the Splitting Bolt on though

[stiff aurora]

sea storm

[tidal flame]

Does it stack with Sea Storm?

[true fable]

^

yes

[stiff aurora]

yes

[tidal flame]

Dang

[true fable]

it is absurd

[stiff aurora]

you focus your damage scaling for super soaker on zeus, right? Or do you try getting poseidon stuff?

[sly remnant]

yes

[rain sedge]

it becomes an eris, but instead of some 15-something damage chain lightning, it's 40 damage bolt per hit

which can also get double strike proc

[sly remnant]

you need a lot of both of them

[true fable]

jolted

you want rupture for high heat

my soaker 40 heat clear i didnt get sea storm until styx

rupture and breaking wave just carried

[rain sedge]

did I do 32 with super soaker?

I must have tagged you on it

#h1-victory-boasting message

I did, it's also sea storm and splitting bolt

tagged you and tyler

[sly remnant]

it would have been the lucifer record at 32 heat

[true fable]

would it?

[dire steppe]

bounty is now 160 good luck soakers

[true fable]

i have a 15 minute 40 heat luci time that was a 5 sack lol

havent touched it since

[sly remnant]

Pog

did you record?

[true fable]

im not submitting a 5 sack lol

[sly remnant]

fair

what times do you think we should be happy with at 32 and 40

for aspect diversity

[true fable]

sub 10, sub 12

for any aspect right?

[sly remnant]

thats what i was afraid of you saying

sub 10 nem is killing me

[true fable]

sub 9 and sub 10 are what id consider "competitive" for each

yeah that seems rough

nemesis is not a kbm friendly weapon imo

theres no combination of settings that work well together

[stiff aurora]

second wave should force another lightning bolt from sea storm, right?

[true fable]

should

[sly remnant]

it does

[true fable]

theres some weird things with sea storm

flood flare beo doesnt proc sea storm

[dire steppe]

why does repulse shot not sea storm

[daring hedge]

i dunno how hadesprof plays kbm nem so comfortably

[true fable]

yeah that one makes me mad

[daring hedge]

he makes it look easy

[dire steppe]

though when are you getting sea storm on rama anyway

[sly remnant]

i imagine the flood flare and repulse shot is simply devs forgetting to add the tag

[true fable]

congratulate hades prof for being the first to do 50 heat all aspects

[daring hedge]

👀

[true fable]

i did it on a tempest strike build for funsies

[sly remnant]

50 heat all aspects

is insane

[dire steppe]

by the way does ricochet/piercing fire on zeus rail trigger multiple lightnings

[daring hedge]

pretty sure it does

a chain lightning instance spawning on each enemy hit by the projectile itself

[dire steppe]

i should take that more often on eris

[daring hedge]

probably wouldn't make it worth it over other, better hammer options though

[true fable]

i dont think it does

but this is based on what other people have said in the sr disc

would have to test yourself

[daring hedge]

oh i see

i would trust them more than me then

[true fable]

i wouldnt

lol

[daring hedge]

fair lol, i just feel like i'm not super well versed with rail so i could just be wrong about hammer boon interactions

[sly remnant]

peach doing 40 heat ruthless reflex

i'm so proud

[true fable]

peachhead plays the game how many wish they could

big swing arthur with ruthless reflex

[rain sedge]

must be a chad IRL swinging huge 100kg barbels around

playing arthur gives me phantom pain on my forearms

zag looks like he's struggling so much to swing, especially the last hit in the combo

[sly remnant]

i appreciate his dedication to his playstyle

[daring hedge]

i actually really like the peach ruthless strat

big chance to just ignore damage coming at you while swinging after a dash

[sly remnant]

yep

it makes sense

also because you want +dashes anyways on sword

its just tartarus thats so damn slow

[true fable]

just get +3 dashes in tart midshop

ez tart

[sly remnant]

His swift strike idea is actually legit tho I think

[true fable]

yeah i think so too

just tough relying on an epic hermes boon but thats no different than high rolling extra dashes on me fists

[sly remnant]

I mean the advantage of arthur is

You ain't rollin for anything else

[rain sedge]

isnt there a duo that slows enemy projectile?

does that stack with arthur's field?

[sly remnant]

Theoretically it should.

But uh

[rain sedge]

just wanna see how slow it is

[sly remnant]

Idj if anyone has played enough dionysius arthur to say

[rain sedge]

I'll do it later for fun

[sly remnant]

And if it works like most things in Arthur's field it will stack multiplicatively

[daring hedge]

i kinda hate hades skulls in hallowed ground because they just float nearly in place and i can simply walk into them

[true fable]

tis handholder keeps running into dio attack on arthur

im sure after enough attempts theyll have our answer for calculated wriste

[vital grove]

Old but I saw chiron and high heat power couple

The thing I do if I have to hit the skull crusher, I dodge into him and volley without using my attack.

[stiff aurora]

that's a good idea, I always had to time my stuff perfectly or take damage before

[mossy zinc]

Ruthless Reflex on Excalibur is just really strong.

[true fable]

yeah i believe it

[mossy zinc]

50% Dodge on top of Holy Aura is +167% eHP. 50% Dodge on top of Holy Aura + Weak is +238% eHP.

[rain sedge]

uh apparently you can get offered duplicate items in a charon shop?

unless I'm going crazy, haelian got duplicate item on stream

nevermind I'm stupid it's the random shop item

[true fable]

duplicate?

[rain sedge]

he got 2 + cast stone item

[true fable]

still hera?

what's his PB now?

[rain sedge]

nah he was memeing with meme beam run

it was a really good meme beam run

[gaunt fiber]

But you only need one

[daring hedge]

no mirage shot 😔

EM4 dad still melted within seconds anyway

[mossy zinc]

You need to lower the heat if even Hades melts. That's not supposed to happen.

[true fable]

what

crystal beam hera?

that is not a fun meme

speaking from experience

henlo white name arc over

[sly remnant]

peach might get sub 11 arthur 40

[daring hedge]

nah the beam run was low heat

em4 and td were like the only things

[true fable]

i see

[vital grove]

Does the 40 Arthur do shackle?

[sly remnant]

peach doesn't

he does AP1 and does artemis stuff

[sullen minnow]

Stupid question I guess but are there any realistic ways of scaling shackle up through the run

I feel like it’s ezclap for the first 2 worlds then my damage starts to run out of steam around Elysium

[sly remnant]

hammers

[gaunt fiber]

https://imgur.com/LOQpAVi

Next is Gilgamesh!

(I could not pick a dash yeah)

[rain sedge]

you doing 40 all aspects too astaos?

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

[rain sedge]

oh no

if astaos get 40 aspects before me

that's it for me

[gaunt fiber]

Why?

That's mean

[opal token]

Talos fist 32 Heat: start with epic aphro special or epic strike

[alpine sleet]

Wrong:
Should gone Zeus attack

[opal token]

What a helpful answer

[alpine sleet]

Jkjk

Id say special

and fish for Zeus attack

[dire steppe]

Fishing only gets you meta resources

[north dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/799090028554616852/unknown.png 👀

[tidal flame]

[spring kettle]

45 heat and not running any AP?

[north dove]

trying to streak 45 so AP is not something I want

[honest kernel]

what weapon is that

Rail ? Fists ?

[north dove]

rail, just posted in #h1-victory-boasting

[honest kernel]

Noice

[true fable]

built diff

hades professor would be proud

only missing scint feast

[honest kernel]

He dissed the hades professor legacy for Splitting Bolt

[true fable]

hey you know

splitting? kind of good

[rain sedge]

bright is a blue name too now

I'm no longer unique and cool

sigh

[dire steppe]

hades is the same thing as transistor if you run athena call and smoldering air

[tidal flame]

Teal name looks cool ngl

[daring hedge]

i won't break

even though i really love transistor

[tidal flame]

Joinj us

[rain sedge]

Imma change my colour soon to be unique again

[north dove]

Achilles spear almost killed my streak again, aim assist yeeted me right into a pot right as dad turned invisible

[rain sedge]

What's the streak at now?

[dire steppe]

i'm doing zag fists 33 and I have 25.3% on plume and just the base 15% dodge chance

to beat HL5 FO2 dad... acorn or plume?

I think plume is actually more EHP because I have an athena DD

was gonna do 32 but it felt stupid to run hl4

inb4 i die by exactly 20% hp

POG styx hermes offered me greater evasion

[silk summit]

anyone have an 'order of heat' list they use?

[gusty kite]

pinned messages ^

[silk summit]

ahh! thanks!

[tidal flame]

The list advocates for LC4 and SD which is valid, though if you are really struggling, there are also settings for LC0 and DD.

[north dove]

9 at the moment, got through all the zagspects and getting through the 2nd row

[tidal flame]

If you don't have to cycle through weapons, which one do you think is most consistent for streaks?

[dire steppe]

wish me luck guys, i have 56.4% dodge chance on heartbreak strike zag fists w/ patty and an athena DD

[tidal flame]

god bless

[north dove]

hmm, that's a tough one. Personally it would be nemesis but I'm not sure about the best streak weapon overall

maybe Eris?

or Rama

[dire steppe]

should I save for a greater athena call? or spam lessers?

[tidal flame]

I would spam lesser personally

[tidal flame]

Yeah makes sense. Thanks!

[dire steppe]

i have (192 + 192 + 240)/(0.456*0.7) = 1954 ehp

poggers

have a feeling i shoulda taken abyssal

my nerves lol

i have hypersprint and hades has fo2, ultra fast

ok nvm no nerves this is easy af

[rain sedge]

that's about... * checks notes * 8 more aspects than I got at any streak at 45+ heat

damn retrash, you're a monster

and you got all the zag aspects out of the way first

last row will be really hard though, arthur, gilga, GY 45 is inconsistent AF

[north dove]

yeah

although I'll probably lose on something dumb like Hera or something

[rain sedge]

cast aspects at 45 is a real struggle anyway

[alpine sleet]

Holy

After playing with fo2 for about 12 hours of playtime

No fo feels like molasses

Wayyy too slow lmao

[true fable]

do i play pyre just for gold name

i think gold name seems right

[tidal flame]

dew it

[shy plinth]

Play pyre because it's a fun game

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[wanton plover]

[dire steppe]

so is 32 heat free for people here

[mossy zinc]

Depends a bit on the pacts, but yeah.

If I get free choice of pacts, it's free.

[dire steppe]

lol just realized i got 1% bad news on my 33 plume run

[shy gulch]

i'll still sometimes die at 32 heat because im bad but its generally not too bad

then again i havent done high heat in a while so maybe thats why

[gusty kite]

I see a lot of people going plume + aspect of zag fists for it, is that a good starting spot for high heat?

[tidal flame]

It works but I don't think it's consistent.

Did you see the pinned post here?

[gusty kite]

I read the heat suggestions, didn't realize there was weapons as well like one more wheel scroll below

[thorny wing]

Lol

[tidal flame]

Lul

[vital grove]

Hey there might be a bug with the sheet, my Rama was put in as Gilgamesh

[mossy zinc]

@vital grove should be fixed now.

https://hadesprofessor.blogspot.com/2021/01/blog-post.html

[tidal flame]

Dude is a treasure.

[shy gulch]

love him

so glad he managed to do it, thats super impressive

[thorny wing]

Damn. Gratz to him.

[warm osprey]

@north dove woah u goin for 45 heat all aspects streak

that would be legendary

[true fable]

32 heat feels fine for the most part

i dont think i could die on 32 with my choice of pact

if im just going for completion

[halcyon flame]

i wonder if anyone uses god mode in heat runs

[tidal flame]

I don't think so? And it defeats the purpose of Hard Labor?

[edgy arrow]

routing defeats the purpose of AP2, but people do that

i’ve never heard of it either tho

[stiff aurora]

If you are good enough at the game tonrun high heat, you are good enough to turn god mode off

[past field]

What's generally considered high heat for this channel?

[stiff aurora]

32 and up, isn't it?

I would understand leaving god mode on for stuff like single dogit heat runs to try the different pacts or maybe something like doing em4 just to experience the fight, but I don't really see the point beyond that

[tidal flame]

That's... a valid point

[thorny wing]

Whats routing?

[edgy arrow]

rng manipulation

[tidal flame]

RNG in a computer isn't truly random. When you "get a random number" you're really just stepping forward through a predetermined sequence of numbers. That means that if you can track the number of times you've called for a new number, you can figure out where you are in that sequence.

When you walk through a door in Hades, a few things happen:

• The room you entered, including the tile, enemies, and boon rewards, are generated
• The next rewards are semi-decided (for example, Poseidon is chosen but not the rewards he'll give you)
• A new seed is generated based on a combination of your current seed and your RNG value, and that new seed replaces your current one.

When the doors unlock, your rng value is reset to the value it had when you walked into the room. This means that any calls that you made during the duration of the encounter don't matter.

There are a few manipulations that we know have a fixed number of calls:

• A cast landing on the ground causes 1 RNG Call
• Breaking a pot causes 1 RNG call
• Summoning causes 2 RNG calls the first time you do it, and 1 each time after that
• Charon groaning at you causes 1 RNG call
  There are others, but those are the most commonly used

Because our RNG resets when doors unlock, we can 'step through' the next rooms/rewards by testing a value, then reloading the save and testing the next value, and so on, until we find the 'perfect' next chamber. Then we do that for each room, until we have a route from start to finish.

From Museus, one of the game speedrunners/modders

[thorny wing]

Ah. Yeah. Never doing that.

[tidal flame]

Same tbh.

[stiff aurora]

I would really like to see a whole run where the runner learned a certain pattern by heart and plays it all the way without reloading

Like something fully optimized where you might have to use cast 3 times in an empty room to get the best result, not just playing through the game without doing anything special

It would be great as a speerun category as well, people would try finding specific seeds and optimize them further with things like that

[true fable]

boy do i have a category for you

@stiff aurora have you watched seeded runs

or routed runs rather

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpDS4RJIcE0

please enjoy

[gusty kite]

I'm bored of slowly working up heats, ima try some 32s

[edgy arrow]

can't believe i died to EM4 smh

i had heroic level 5 drunken dash and everything

[dire steppe]

i see you like arthur

well boy do i have an arthur setup for you

[edgy arrow]

oh no

is it drunken strike

[gusty kite]

👀

[true fable]

ah yes the tried and true method

believe it or not ohokwy

[dire steppe]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Sl63wnbp7xhne3zACalrHKkp7Y4eKKVxFBssMMWRwmA/https/i.imgur.com/4K0XXt4h.jpg

[true fable]

it is worse

than drunken strike

oh

[gusty kite]

you have my full undivided attention

[edgy arrow]

oh boy

[true fable]

i thought you were gonna link the sea storm arthur build rigged

[dire steppe]

arguably this is worse because like

ri3

fo2

[edgy arrow]

OH BOY

[gusty kite]

okay talk me through what i'm actually looking at here, cause tbh I've only defaulted to heart rend arthur

for the longest time

[dire steppe]

someone unironically made this build and though it was good

[edgy arrow]

you're looking at a big brain pro strat

[honest kernel]

CursedArthur.jpeg

[gusty kite]

oh you jebaited me

okay

[edgy arrow]

double edge lets you stack poison twice as fast!

[stiff aurora]

Lolk

[gaunt fiber]

I mean

[gusty kite]

pls am only 2weeks in, am very impressionable

[gaunt fiber]

The other I was giving away some advice on 32

[stiff aurora]

Damn, that's incredibly impressive

[dire steppe]

ri3 double edge

[edgy arrow]

my advice is ignore everything we say

[true fable]

RI3 on 32 heat

[gusty kite]

[true fable]

with god mode too

[gaunt fiber]

And I ended being "passive agressive" because I was saying that RI was really bad at 32

[true fable]

the whole shebang

[dire steppe]

it’s only 20% god mode

[gusty kite]

do I want cthonic or dark regen for high heat? I know I go SD

[edgy arrow]

even with god mode it was still pretty crazy as a first time 32

[dire steppe]

Neither lol

[honest kernel]

If you go SD it likely won't matter

[edgy arrow]

since it was only 20% yeah

[honest kernel]

Since you'll want LC

[gusty kite]

that's valid

[honest kernel]

But either way, Cthonic is usually preferred

[true fable]

chthonic has good synergy with high confidence

[gusty kite]

the way you use SD is that you die to reset hp if you're low or something like that right?

[edgy arrow]

i mean, cthonic is better for speedruns because of the synergy with high confidence

[true fable]

and if im not running stubborn im running high confidence

[honest kernel]

Yup

[gusty kite]

[edgy arrow]

but in terms of healing, dark regen gives you waaaay more

[gusty kite]

I have some knowledge

some

[true fable]

nice

[dire steppe]

the main thing for 32 arthur is dont take DC or FO2

^not a joke

[true fable]

I think FO2 is honestly overrated

i feel like its fine

[edgy arrow]

lol

[dire steppe]

on orther?

[honest kernel]

Counter-argument : It only matters if you know you'll leave a boss fight with like minimal HP

Since Fountains exist

[gaunt fiber]

FO2 is ok on Arthur tbh

[true fable]

DC2 is a big no from me

[honest kernel]

Also it's healing in Styx

[true fable]

FO2 i've never had a huge problem with but ive only done arthur 40

[edgy arrow]

i sometimes think this, but whenever i turn it off i discover secret zones past asphodel

[honest kernel]

Cthonic, that is

[dire steppe]

dc2 with zeus hestia is the secret meta

[edgy arrow]

whoops, meant past tartarus

[gusty kite]

I'm not hellbent on it being arthur, its' just what I'm probably most comfortable on without just being a shield andy

[edgy arrow]

imagine getting out of the first zone

[true fable]

thats me but with TD3 ohokwy

suddenly TD2 and its like

wow i would have made it on TD3 anyway

[honest kernel]

The moment you turn on TD3 you attract Le vermin

[edgy arrow]

yeah honestly most of my early deaths are TD as well tbh

[true fable]

true

[edgy arrow]

but FO2 doesn't help

[true fable]

turning on TD3 also turns on chamber 12 x trap room with infinite numbskulls

[honest kernel]

or Witches

[true fable]

yeah either or

[stiff aurora]

I still need to learn fo2, I did one run with it on and won, but that was only because I had more than 300 hp lol

[true fable]

baj how does it feel to be both the fastest and highest heat zeus shield player now

is it lonely at the top

[honest kernel]

What did I invest myself into

[edgy arrow]

yeah why would you not play beo

[true fable]

^

i guess baj does play some beo right

[honest kernel]

Each time I try Beo, I'm sad that I have to bullrush all the time or I'm slow

[true fable]

makes sense

cant standing attack

[edgy arrow]

isn't bullrushing all the time just the shield lifestyle tho

i do it with all of them

[honest kernel]

In speedruns it's a mix of that and dash-attacks

[true fable]

zag/zeus shield standing attack a lot

[surreal copper]

Someone said Zeus shield? I love that weapon

[true fable]

baj is the undisputed expert

[stiff aurora]

Beo has big numbers though, big number>small number therefore beo is the best shield aspect

[gusty kite]

Where on earth do people get 32 heat from do I really need to learn EM3

https://i.imgur.com/qey5Uyn.png

[true fable]

if you have a zeus shield question ask baj

[edgy arrow]

applause

[true fable]

so

[honest kernel]

EM3 is kinda necessary for 32

[dire steppe]

for the love of god turn off CP

[true fable]

immediately

DC2

off

[gaunt fiber]

TD2 EM3

[true fable]

EM3 on

TD2 on

[dire steppe]

I did my fists 33 with em2

[surreal copper]

EM3 is easier or at least as easy than regular asterius and theseus

[true fable]

^

[surreal copper]

theseus on a chariot really doesn't do much

[true fable]

no but it's worth the heat imo

[honest kernel]

^

That's the thing

[true fable]

it'll probably be the hardest fight in the run if you turn it on

but its worth the 3 heat

[stiff aurora]

Try doing more td unless you have trouble with the time

[edgy arrow]

are you... the first person ever to do 33 heat?

[dire steppe]

acorn elysium is a must

[gusty kite]

I guess DC is small brain if I'm using a sword which swings once per minute

[dire steppe]

I didn’t want to turn on HL4 so i just did 33

[true fable]

turn on heightened security

[dire steppe]

Instead of 32

[true fable]

you have a special that disables traps

also you can just not step on traps

[edgy arrow]

arthur special doesn't disable urns tho

[gusty kite]

pinned msg said don't take HS :c

[true fable]

ok

dont get urned

[gusty kite]

also I'm at 31 now

[honest kernel]

Thanks Hypnos

[dire steppe]

for the love of god turn off CP

[true fable]

if you plan on going higher just turn it on

[gusty kite]

it's off it's off

https://i.imgur.com/UqIjED7.png

[edgy arrow]

what's wrong with cp lol

[dire steppe]

just take HL3

[true fable]

you could always turn on one more level of hard labor

and turn off HS

[stiff aurora]

It makes bosses take longer

[edgy arrow]

its only TD1 its not like there's a time issue

[true fable]

TD2 now

[gusty kite]

td2*

[stiff aurora]

Td2 now

[edgy arrow]

even so

[dire steppe]

https://prnt.sc/wn2j5m

[honest kernel]

@edgy arrow Makes ALL the bosses longer. Makes Elysium and Styx much more annoying. Also Asphodel if your aspect/weapon struggles in that zone

[dire steppe]

@edgy arrow my 33

[honest kernel]

It's a scam of heat

[true fable]

i think it'd be fine either way but that pact looks ok michael

if you run HL3 no HS or HL2 HS

either one seems super reasonable

[dire steppe]

Everything is +15% more hurty for 1 measly point lol

[gusty kite]

aight i'll be back in 30 mins when i've returned to the pool

[true fable]

ok for some scale

[dire steppe]

30? pog

[true fable]

about CP1

asterius has 14000 HP

[dire steppe]

CP1 literally multiplies your run clear time by 1.15

[edgy arrow]

okay eveyone disagrees with me about CP lol

guess i'll try to take it less

[honest kernel]

I turned CP2 for my 45 heat Arthur run

[true fable]

with CP, asterius has 16100 HP

[honest kernel]

I nearly timed out in Hades with a 2-sack lmao

[edgy arrow]

i just feel like its not that much of an issue without TD3

[true fable]

the thing is CP isnt just a flat multiplicative 1.15

[honest kernel]

It's that impactful

[true fable]

you have to think about damage cutoffs

overkill is important

I'm more likely to take CP on beo/hestia/arthur than i am on something like eris

[stiff aurora]

Prohably true, but that does not make it remotely cost effective

[edgy arrow]

sure

[true fable]

coincidence, beo/hestia/arthur also REALLY dont want to turn on DC

[honest kernel]

Means you are missing out on the TD3 heat, and potentially EM4 heat as well

Since EM4 CP2 is ... quite the fight

[edgy arrow]

i mean, ya'll make a pretty compelling argument

[true fable]

my nuanced opinion is that it depends on the aspect

[honest kernel]

^

[true fable]

thank you for coming to my ted talk

[honest kernel]

But I don't think many should take it

[edgy arrow]

yeah like i play a lotta beo, and its gotta be less of a problem there

[true fable]

but also you do not need to take CP1 or 2 at 32 heat

[dire steppe]

EM4 is free 4 heat

[honest kernel]

Beo could get away with it

[edgy arrow]

beo aspect of boss fight easy

[true fable]

i have a maxy save file

with a styg beo build

4 stygian casts

1 braid

bad news mirage shot

very good stress release

[honest kernel]

holy mother of nuts

[stiff aurora]

Damn

[dire steppe]

isnt bad news basically a worse chaos boon

[true fable]

yes

it is just a braid of atlas

[honest kernel]

It's a perma Braid

[true fable]

but it's still +50% on your casts

[honest kernel]

Still good

But legendary worthy ? lol nope

[true fable]

what else would i want from hermes

side hustle?

[honest kernel]

Rush Delivery

[true fable]

baj

ok

yes

LOL

but i also want auto reload

[honest kernel]

Fair

[stiff aurora]

So get hermes in styx

[true fable]

i guess the perfect setup is

oh i have my dream beo route

[edgy arrow]

well, anyway, time for some drunken strike arthur or something

[dire steppe]

The real meta is rush delivery + heart of stone

[true fable]

you start dio cast, get natty arty/poseidon

take the plume into asphodel

[honest kernel]

Quick Reload -> HyperS -> Rush Delivery in styx

[true fable]

buy auto reload at midshop and get rush delivery

upgrade both to heroics

and then get hyper sprint

[honest kernel]

bruh

That HAS to go in a routed run

[true fable]

you cant even COMPREHEND the damage

[honest kernel]

One cast is all that will be needed at that point

lmao

[true fable]

yeah this would be super omega overkill

just like red hyper delivery usually is

[stiff aurora]

You already have artemis in the pool, just get her legendary

[true fable]

just get fully loaded

the other day i got both fully loaded and unhealthy fixation from a trial

i was living

[dire steppe]

fixation is insane

[honest kernel]

Fixation makes me instant-spinn'ed by Hades

10/10 would get that 400+ gold again

[stiff aurora]

I don't really see the appeal of fixation when you compare it to legendaries that give a lot of damage

Or stuff like athena

[gusty kite]

update: up to elysium 10 mins still on clock core build is done now it's just junk/defenses I need

[dire steppe]

because lady aphrodite

[gusty kite]

have I unintentionally SD'd like 10 times? yes

[edgy arrow]

10? pump those numbers up

[gusty kite]

[mossy zinc]

Unhealthy Fixation does a lot of damage when half your enemies attack the other half.

[gusty kite]

well that's interesting... there's no bomb plants in this room.. how else can I suicide a SD

[stiff aurora]

You should already have enough damage to deal with normal mobs though

[honest kernel]

All the effort invested into Aphrodite

Could go into actually being powerful enough to not need her

[mossy zinc]

She does very high damage lol.

[honest kernel]

And she doesn't scale too well

Unless you get specific duos

[mossy zinc]

Doesn't scale well? She has the best pom scaling out of any % boons.

And rarity.

[true fable]

its like shackling except you get duos

[honest kernel]

^

Damage falls off in Elysium

And suddenly you wished you went for Zeus or Artemis

[gusty kite]

attempt 1 over essentially started room without an SD cause I couldn't suicide in previous one

[stiff aurora]

My point is that you already have a core boon with high damage because aphro and prohably some other stuff because you got her legendary

[true fable]

i find it kind of fitting that aphro enables most of the ultra powerful duos

oh and curse of longing

lol

[honest kernel]

Turns out, when your only damage is additive in a game where almost everything else is additive ... It's not gonna scale as well as it should

Zeus is flat damage, Artemis is crit

Heck, even Dio can scale better with duos and global damage modifiers

[mossy zinc]

[honest kernel]

He's just Damage over time in a game where you kill things in like 5 seconds

So he's not fast

[true fable]

smolderin

that is my nuanced argument

[honest kernel]

Smoldering Air and Heart Rend are the big two

[true fable]

low tolerance is pretty underrated imo

[honest kernel]

Aprhodite is a fantastic secondary god to get

[true fable]

its just not a speedrunning duo

[honest kernel]

But outside of Sweet Surrender, I don't want her to show up

[stiff aurora]

Yeah, you can easily get 100+ damage per tick

[honest kernel]

lmao

[true fable]

epic sweet surrender is a good boon for flat damage/cast builds

i like it a lot on crush shot hera

[honest kernel]

Sweet Surrender is Global Damage++

Since you get bonus Summon damage too

[true fable]

ye

[dire steppe]

sweet surrender is gr8

[true fable]

but its not multiplicative

[languid vale]

Is Sweet Nectar worth it?

[dire steppe]

and weak is op with broken resolve

[honest kernel]

Early enough ? Maybe

[gaunt fiber]

[true fable]

depends when you get it

[honest kernel]

Don't shoot for it unless you go for meme high level boon runs

[true fable]

i like it for cast builds in tart/asphodel

[dire steppe]

sweet nectar is 400 gold if you get it late

[honest kernel]

^

[languid vale]

Bro just get it with Pom Blossom

[gaunt fiber]

[true fable]

you never build around sweet nectar

[dire steppe]

It doesn’t affect pom slices

Sadly

[stiff aurora]

It's a good pick if you get nothing you actually need

[dire steppe]

Do you ever build around Exclusive access lol

[honest kernel]

I heard someone wanted to do just that

For Hermes boons

[true fable]

its more something where you just have a poseidon boon and an aphro core boon and your next thing is sweet surrender

i havent built around it

[honest kernel]

Like, run god's legacy and highroll Exclusive Access

And get all da Hermes boons

[true fable]

but i ended up with it a lot on dio beo

[honest kernel]

But I didn't see much out of it

[dire steppe]

But when do you want dio and poseidon in a build

[honest kernel]

Since the reqs aren't kind to speedruns

[true fable]

i am very happy on dio beo with dio cast > tempest flourish > EA

dio beo

[honest kernel]

AKA, Dio go away

[true fable]

that is the only build i can think of

that wants both early

[stiff aurora]

Dio cast builds with mirage cast

[languid vale]

what about the Aid?

Poseidon's Aid seems decent

[dire steppe]

rip current is op

[true fable]

poseidons aid is very good for high heat

[honest kernel]

Poseidon Aid is aight, but not ideal for most weapons

For anyheat that is

Poseidon Aid fantastic at high heat

[languid vale]

So you could go Dio Cast and Pos Aid for EA

[dire steppe]

poseidon’s aid is cooler without dc2

[honest kernel]

^

You can make it work with Rip Current still with DC2

[true fable]

^

[honest kernel]

And, idk, taking care of the shields first isn't asking a whole lot

[true fable]

also the body slams tend to eradicate many shields

[honest kernel]

^

[gaunt fiber]

[mossy zinc]

Best sword hammer is base damage, best spear hammers are base damage, best bow hammers are base damage, best rail hammers are base damage. They don't benefit any more from Deadly than from Heartbreak. In fact, they benefit more from Heartbreak unless you have t2 crit boons or find % bonus damage, but that's going up against better pom and rarity scaling from Lady Aphrodite still.

[languid vale]

I still don't know how body slams work lol

[true fable]

oh

[honest kernel]

Best sword hammer is Double Edge, which isn't really base damage ?

[true fable]

well strike theres the very easy hunter dash argument

[mossy zinc]

It's base damage.

[dire steppe]

Best fist hammer is additive damage

[honest kernel]

Flurry Jab is a speedup moreso than base

[true fable]

hunter dash is always going to skew it in favor of deadly strike for me

[stiff aurora]

It's 2*whatever the normal dash strike damage is

[mossy zinc]

Double Edge is 2x base damage and a +20% that doesn't really matter much.

[honest kernel]

Cluster Rockets want Artemis special anyways

[true fable]

+10?

ah

[languid vale]

ok but we all know that the best sword hammer is hoarding slash

[honest kernel]

You can technically hit half the dash-strike and get one hit in

[dire steppe]

hoarding slash would be cooler if it could crit

[honest kernel]

Thereby, it's not really a base damage up

[true fable]

idk i think id take aphro cluster rockets over arty at high heat

[honest kernel]

Moreso a multihit

[true fable]

usually fiery presence shifts it in artys favor for anyheat

[mossy zinc]

No? Eris wants that. Cluster Rockets per se benefit more from Heartbreak Flourish.

[dire steppe]

Is cluster bomb the only negative additive damage

[true fable]

eris too yeah

[honest kernel]

I guess that's fair ?

Depends on how high we go

Because as long as Chaos exists, Artemis special will likely be favored

[true fable]

idk i feel like id rather have other hammers on the other two rails lol

[honest kernel]

^

That too

[languid vale]

Is Gilgamesh viable on high heat?

[true fable]

hm

complicated

[dire steppe]

i’d rather have triple bomb on lucifer

[true fable]

but yes

[dire steppe]

imagine cluster bomb luci lmao

[honest kernel]

Gilgamesh is like one of the worst, if not worst aspect. It can still work, but don't expect it to be easy

[true fable]

i am going to bed

[mossy zinc]

You don't reliably get % bonus damage from Master Chaos with AP2. That's high-rolling.

[dire steppe]

conspiracy theory bright01 is tyler

[true fable]

enjoy arguing for arty against nyaanyaa lmao

[stiff aurora]

Gilgamesh is a meme aspect for tidal dash builds lol

[true fable]

????

[dire steppe]

hi tyler

[honest kernel]

As I said, depends on how high we go for heat

[dire steppe]

this channel starts at 55

[true fable]

if i were tyler i would be in the midst of this argument already

LOL

[gaunt fiber]

arty t2 boons don't exist

[honest kernel]

And honestly, I'd rather go Zeus or something at that point if the weapon can make it work

Aphro not scaling is just asking to fall flat against TD3, it feels like

[dire steppe]

aphro needs more damage t2 boons yeah

[honest kernel]

And trust me : I TRIED

I even tried Poseidon start for crying out loud

Aphrodite was just lagging behind Artemis and Zeus

[dire steppe]

dying lament is cool tho

[mossy zinc]

Well, I didn't list shield for weapons whose best hammers are base damage.

[gaunt fiber]

every boon is cool tbh

[honest kernel]

Charged Shot

Try again

Explosive Return is also base damage

[mossy zinc]

I guess if you count those two as best then yeah, she should be well in the race for shield, too.

[dire steppe]

what’s the armor crit boon called

[languid vale]

Hide Breaker?

[honest kernel]

What that boon actually does something

Hunter's Mark is like the boon you want

[stiff aurora]

It makes elysium slightly less annoying if you have a crit build

But yeah it sucks

[dire steppe]

it was a quiz because it’s so not notable you’d never take it

[mossy zinc]

AP2 UC CF2 RI1, you're not getting t2 crit boons or % bonus damage from Master Chaos reliably enough for crits to pull ahead. Without those, you can reliably get powerful Duo Boons from Lady Aphrodite.

[dire steppe]

like hunter instinct

[honest kernel]

Heart Rend wants Artemis, and Smoldering Air wants Zeus

[stiff aurora]

Hunter instinct is the one that gives god gauge on crit, right?

[dire steppe]

yes

[honest kernel]

It's kinda like she pairs super well with those 2

Other duos I don't think are super noticeable

[edgy arrow]

so what's the wisdom on chaos gates at AP2? worth it or no?

[dire steppe]

can’t forget cold embrace smhsmh

[mossy zinc]

Low Tolerance is great, Sweet Nectar is great.

[stiff aurora]

If you play hangover, low tolerance

[mossy zinc]

Depends on TD etc.

[honest kernel]

^

[edgy arrow]

fair

[mossy zinc]

Cold Embrace is pretty good.

[honest kernel]

Low Tolerance I am on the fence, tbh

[languid vale]

Don't diss Hunter Instinct I once got like a single Artemis Aid stock from it

[honest kernel]

Cold Embrace is wack to use

But I can see it being good

[dire steppe]

low tolerance? you mean worse of nausea?

[honest kernel]

Extra duration nothing to sneeze at

[mossy zinc]

It's better than Curse of Nausea though lol.

[stiff aurora]

Unless I did the maths wrong, it is more damage than curse of nausea

[dire steppe]

in max dps it is more than nausea

but requires 8 stacks and weak status

[honest kernel]

Also curse of nausea is big with Dio aid

[edgy arrow]

CoN's dps is higher

[honest kernel]

Low tolerance ain't gonna work for that one

[dire steppe]

Petition to shorten Dionysus to Donny instead of Dio

[edgy arrow]

even at 8 stacks, low tolerance does less

[dire steppe]

i don’t think that’s true

[languid vale]

it's 60% more damage at 8 stacks, right? (compared to normal 5 stacks)

[dire steppe]

it’s 1.6x (8/5) vs 1.429x (10/7)

[stiff aurora]

I'm on my phone right now, I can show you thr maths once I am on my pc

[dire steppe]

0.5/0.35 is 1.42857

[honest kernel]

To get to 8 stacks is actually not easy

[edgy arrow]

hmm

you're right

[dire steppe]

^ especially on arthur

[honest kernel]

Unless you plan on gimping your damage early by going Dio instead of Zeus

[dire steppe]

where drunken strike shines

[honest kernel]

On like fists or rail

And even then

[edgy arrow]

i must have messed up my math when i looked at it before

[stiff aurora]

It's good on chiron

[dire steppe]

can we make drunken strike ri3 arthur 32 heat a challenge

[honest kernel]

No, it's too much torture

[edgy arrow]

the pro strat for that is AP2

"oh whoops, i didn't get drunken strike. what a shame"

[dire steppe]

you’re forced to start drunken strike

it’s like soaker

[edgy arrow]

lol yeah ik

i'd do it tbh

[languid vale]

wait is Zeus strike good?

[dire steppe]

Soaker? I hardly know ‘er!

[honest kernel]

Still not enough to make Chiron fast, or makeup for the fact that you trade one arrow for the auto-aim

Bow special sucks

But it's probably it's best build lmao

Next to Artemis special Heart Rend

[stiff aurora]

Zeus special is also not that bad, I have not played it enough to say if it is close to those two though

[honest kernel]

You get one, maybe 2 procs of the zeus special

It's somehow worse than Dio

I'd rather go Curse of Longing instead

[stiff aurora]

You get 2 at least, it's decent damage

[honest kernel]

and pray to hit Dire Misfortune

Instead of going Zeus special

[stiff aurora]

Definitely better than curse of longing

[honest kernel]

On rama, on the other hand ... Zeus special is solid

Since, y'know, the special isn't as laggy

[languid vale]

Is Pos Strike/Zeus Flourish/Sea Storm good on Demeter Aspect?

[honest kernel]

No

Zeus Flourish will likely get 1 proc on the charge

Poseidon Strike could work ok, but isn't really ideal until you get Sea Storm

Your best bet would be Pos Strike and Thunder Dash

And like get a good special on the way

But just going Zeus strike instead is more than enough

You could also pull a nyaa and do Aphrodite

[mossy zinc]

Hangover pom scaling is actually busted.

[honest kernel]

First level is actually sick

[gaunt fiber]

Almost as good as pressure points

[stiff aurora]

If you have both dire misfortune and impending doom, which of them gets calculated first?

[honest kernel]

Dire Misfortune adds damage to the doom until it triggers, then gets boosted by Impending Doom

That's how I understand it

[languid vale]

stuff like this is why I'd love it if you could give yourself boons in the skelly area

to test out those interactions

[mossy zinc]

Any level is great if you apply 5–8 stacks quickly. Any +1 is +40 damage per 5 stacks and +64 with 8 stacks.

[gusty kite]

BP2 is already providing nightmare fuel.. oh boi

[honest kernel]

... Over 4 seconds. You only really get that full duration on bosses, or if you hyper-jack enemies to the point where they take forever to kill

I could legitimately try Dio out more in High heat, TBH

... If he could stop offering After Party, that is

[languid vale]

After Party is nice imo

[honest kernel]

Not when LC is maxed

[languid vale]

true

[vital grove]

You haven't played Hades until you get ambushed by bows with speed and damage and Fo2

[thorn jay]

FO2 with EM3 or FO1 with EM4?

Or neither

for 32 heat

[stiff aurora]

The first

Assuming you can easily handle fo2, it is way harder than fo1

[thorn jay]

I normally play with FO1 at 20 heat

So i havent really tried

Either FO2 or EM4

Or maybe i can jack it up to 32 heat without either

[mossy zinc]

What's hyper-jacking?

[honest kernel]

CP2

Basically

[stiff aurora]

I would try doing an fo2 run without much other stuff in that case

[mossy zinc]

Oh gotcha.

[honest kernel]

BP2 CP2 armored enemies are a pain

[stiff aurora]

Definitely not em4, I would either do fo1 em3 or get used to fo2 on lower heat until you can handle it

[mossy zinc]

Anyway, the idea is more that you spread Hangover across the room and let enemies die off behind you. You'd want Heartbreak or Deadly on your (other) Attack/Special, though.

[gaunt fiber]

I really like hangover on fists atm

My best results are with drunken strike

[mossy zinc]

Even if you think of it as enemies dying within 2 seconds, that's +20 damage for every pom.

[vital grove]

Hangover rama special is sooo good. JS3 tho

[honest kernel]

I already do that to an extent with Zeus shield

And whenver I get Dio strike or something

[thorn jay]

Hmmm so FO2 at 6 heat. I'll see how it goes. Thanks a lot @stiff aurora

[stiff aurora]

I suppose you could do em4 and no fo if you really wanted to, but that's far harder for only 1 extra heat

[mossy zinc]

I wouldn't use FO at all at 32 if you want things to be easy. I guess I'd say either EM3 FO2 or EM2 FO2. But you don't have to take FO at all.

[honest kernel]

^ honestly this

FO is basically another game

[thorn jay]

Yeah. I actually have tried EM4 alone and I got surprised at how steep the curve went.

[vital grove]

I say do FO2

It's a lot of heat and you get used to it.

[thorn jay]

I know I've done one successful run of FO2 but that's when Chaos was still busted

[mossy zinc]

Getting used to it doesn't make it easier than other options.

[thorn jay]

How do you reach no FO at 32 heat without EM4?

[honest kernel]

EM4 with no FO is MUCH more manageable

Still no slouch

But MUCH easier

[stiff aurora]

You just fill it out with other stuff, you have a lot of flexibility at 32 heat

[mossy zinc]

You'll have way less time to react to things. It doesn't just change attacks from easy to react to to more difficult to react to, it can make some attacks virtually impossible to react to even if you're focused. Like, FO2 Speeder Greatshields, you'll have to dodge preemptively. You're not gonna react reliably. Same with Wringers.

[honest kernel]

^

EM4 Hades' Spear Throw I don't react to directly, I see 2 spins I pre-emptively dodge lol

With FO2

[vital grove]

It takes dodging preemptively a lot yeah

[thorn jay]

So what I'm getting is that FO2 decreases consistency a lot? Very RNG based like you're lucky if you get the weaker combos?

[honest kernel]

It's not RNG

It's just very, very pattern based

[vital grove]

It's skill and experience relearning it

[honest kernel]

Instead of reaction based

[stiff aurora]

Not really, you just have to know every enemy very well

[honest kernel]

^