i just rando died and it became 22%
#h1-high-heat-strategies
dark summit
next marsh
ok, even with 20% less damage taken thats insane
thats like, minus 1 or 2 heat
still insane
dire steppe
^
thorny wing
If I wanna play high heat, should I restart the game in Hell Mode?
shy gulch
nah you dont need hell mode to do high heat
unless you want to go like SUPER high heat, like 55+ or something, you can do a lot of high heat without hell mode
thorny wing
I just dont wanna restart after investing more time into this file if im gonna switch to a new file later.
river tide
theres a hell mode? how do i turn it on?
shy plinth
Do not do hell mode
river tide
what is it? and why not?
shy plinth
It's a separate save file that locks in specific heat options that can't be adjusted
Makes the game way harder and also really isn't necessary to play the game as intended and even at super high difficulties
river tide
that sounds like fun to me
shy plinth
Feel free to start a new save file and turn on hell mode
cyan ether
Say, what aspects do you guys use for mid heat ranges? (Like, around 20 and stuff)
cyan ether
aeuf
Arthur feels kinda broken to me atm, but how viable is it above Heat 20 and stuff
tidal flame
For consistency I like Zag Bow and Demeter Fist.
cyan ether
True
shy gulch
arthur is good for a while but starts to drop off at higher heat
FO really kinda messes with it
shy gulch
forced overtime
tidal flame
So Arthur is Hestia but bad on FO
shy gulch
its hestia except it has to be close range and the attack is clunkier and less smooth and cant handle FO
daring hedge
i feel like DC is worse than FO for arthur
mossy zinc
Cloner and Savior increase difficulty rating of enemies.
I feel like Speeder used to? Anyway, it doesn't now. Only those two perks affect difficulty rating.
shy gulch
whats savior
vital grove
I play with FO2 always on and it's something you can really adjust to
I also thought Arthur was kinda bad with it before but now I don't anymore
Just takes more skill to weave in those attacks. Consecrate helps slow things down too
And depending on build you can really trade a few hits if you have to
vital grove
If you find Patty on SD run, do you take hourglass for Styx?
Just to try and make sure you have it through to Hades
And of course any other buffs you pick up
mossy zinc
Hourglass doesn't affect Patroclus, and it doesn't affect buffs retroactively.
vital grove
Damn
gaunt fiber
Nice heat setup, congrats
mossy zinc
Congratulations! If you do that at 32+, you can get on the mirrorless leaderboard. 
waxen relic
I know. Already on it with Zagshield.
sly remnant
I'm no Beo Expert but have you guys and girls tried running RI3? For ~50 Heat
Did you record? I'd be interested in how you got around having only one cast
Outside of chaos looking out for you :P
waxen relic
Nope, i'll try to record for 32.
chilly sun
I also thought Arthur was kinda bad with it before but now I don't anymore
Arthur gang Arthur gang
I like it with Arthur helps things speed up
vital grove
Yeah dude
You're gonna hit them anyway
Just have to move out of the way first on fo2
halcyon flame
tips for extreme measures theseus?
gaunt fiber
Usually Asterius
waxen relic
Asterius is engaging you, Theseus only scurries about. So either Asterius first or both at the same time.
gaunt fiber
I know that Hadesprofessor likes to go for Theseus first with a heavy damage build
halcyon flame
i could go for theseus first because that chariot gets annoying real fast, honestly it's way more annoying to deal with than him getting help from a random god that i must have annoyed somehow
waxen relic
Chariot is only circling outside and bombing outside for the most part. And when not you go from inside to the now free outside. I think generally you wanna stay at the pillars.
halcyon flame
next time i should use rail so i don't exactly have to be within chopping range of asterius
gaunt fiber
You can (and should) ignore theseus most of the time
sudden cargo
I generally target theseus first, cos Asterius is far more aggressive so he'll chase you and you'll be able to hit them both and take them down faster
But targeting Asterius is safer if you have the time
vital grove
I like to bloody Asterius first, taking shots at Theseus when Asterius is spinning or I moved close to T while A is away
Since I use Antos I watch for the time when T parks his chariot to stroke his ego, I draw in A then use my companion to hit them both
This is also a good time to FIRE EVERYTHING as they're bunched up
sly remnant
I think the safe thing is to only worry about asterios but the fast thing is theseus
mossy zinc
Focusing on Asterius first wastes a lot of time later when you're chasing Theseus, yeah.
You should at least always try to make full use of any opportunity Theseus gives you when he's just standing around talking to the crowd.
It actually makes Asterius easier to deal with, too, because he can crash into Theseus, and you can often hit both.
stiff aurora
Since I use Antos I watch for the time when T parks his chariot to stroke his eg...
If you dash towards T right at the start of the fight and meg immidiately you can hit both of them with meg, no need to hope for an opportunity that might not come
gaunt fiber
no need do dash, just an input to walk tho
stiff aurora
You're right, just make sure that you are closer to thesius
inland plover
Can someone tell me a 32 heat config for beowoulf
gaunt fiber
Check pinned message and adapt if you feel like it's needed
weak gyro
Does anyone else think EM4 Hades needs to be toned down or even split into EM4 and 5? His last phase is just ridiculous, especially the darkening of the screen combined with instant long range spear throws, fast skulls, and infinitely spawning traps.
tidal flame
It's worth 4 heat in one fight. I think it needs to live up to its name.
weak gyro
I'm not against it being hard, but it's just sort of unfair. If you can't just burst him down instantly in that last phase, you will lose the war of attrition. And any build that can't basically trade blows up close with him also has a huge disadvantage.
He is either no significant degree harder than usual, or nearly impossible.
gaunt fiber
There is no bursting him down at high heat anyway
clever otter
always remember
#ask-supergiant message
gaunt fiber
It requires a ton of practice
weak gyro
Not true. He doesn't seem to get any invincibility in that third phase, so Artemis can tear him apart.
tidal flame
always remember
https://discord.com/channels/456889434672201729/4771643764960133...
Haha good one
weak gyro
I just wish there was some kind of middle ground with that fight, since Hades is pretty easy without it and pretty unfair without it. Like, I actually appreciate the adds in fights normally because they seem intelligent and strategic to allow certain boons to work in boss fights.
But Hades summoning Shadow Sneaks and Skull Crushers at the same time? I don't know dude.
shy gulch
I think the fight is fine but should just be worth more heat tbh
gaunt fiber
Well
shy gulch
like genuinely 4 is not enough
gaunt fiber
Just try to burst EM4 at high heat dude
shy gulch
only thing that can reliably nuke em4 is probably like beowulf
sly remnant
I think most people are in agreement that 4 is too little because of how much he warps the run
north dove
EM4 does not need a nerf
proud jay
i'd like to just generally remind random people of red circles of doom in bottom right corner
gaunt fiber
iframe it, next
sly remnant
I think the problem with the fight is it has very high pre-reqs.
2 or 3 sac (2 sac at extreme)
Quite a bit of damage
+1 dash from mirror or hermes except for shield
Cerberus luck
The idea that its 4 heat for one fight is.....optimistic
That holds true for 32-40 but falls apart after that
shy gulch
well to be fair the game isn’t super balanced for extremely high heat, which is where you need the 2-3 sack and where you might have 1 dash
like 50+ I don’t think was too much in consideration
sly remnant
Sure but.....I don't think most people outside of high heat even take em4 more than once
waxen relic
Pretty sure Em4 is 4 Heat because 1, 2, 3, 4
shy gulch
I sometimes take it with nothing else besides like MM to make my meme runs more challenging but yeah I feel u Tyler
and yes atticor it is but the difficulty scaling is much different
than like heroes -> em3 heroes
sly remnant
Heck it became so meta to NOT take it people didn't start adding it until it was a choice between that and mirrorless
gaunt fiber
You're just in time actually
vital grove
I wouldn't take EM4 until I don't know what else to take
solemn pulsar
I agree with Croven that the pact is well balanced at like, 32
like that's what they designed for
vital grove
The idea that the whole run could fall apart at the last fight due to sack rng or just because Fo2 HLX being hard.
weak gyro
Just try to burst EM4 at high heat dude
I've done it
Not all at once, but very effectively
tidal flame
I agree with Croven that the pact is well balanced at like, 32
Generally. RI4 worth 8 heat is still lol imo.
weak gyro
Also, it annoys me how I can re-roll Ares rooms like 6 times and the game keeps giving them to me. Drives me insane
solemn pulsar
they had to have started with that and changed it
there's no way they started with "2 heat for 3 talents"
3 for 3 is so much cleaner
vital grove
40 still seems fair and doable on average
waxen relic
It was some specific Darkness Allowance iirc
solemn pulsar
I agree 40 is fair and doable, but I think that's just lucky
vital grove
But a mix of ap2 and ri on top of everything else for higher heat is ack
solemn pulsar
RI would be more interesting if they capped total darkness you can put into the mirror, but respeccing would be awkward and take too much time
waxen relic
yeah it was basically another whole pact to figure out
clever otter
RI would be more interesting if they capped total darkness you can put into the ...
It used to be like that actually
sly remnant
The problem with making RI worth even more is that it creates more of a separation between self-sufficient and boon-oriented aspects than there already is
I agree its not worth enough for its difficulty. But it exaggerates the pacts already existing issues by making it worth more
One thing that would be really clean to make RI a less polarizing option would be to move Death Defiance/Stubborn Defiance, Greatest Reflex/Ruthless Reflex, and Infernal Soul/Stygian Soul to the first three spots on the mirror.
It doesn't help boon-oriented aspects that much but it doesn't completely gut some aspects as well for the 6 heat
Like imagine playing poseidon sword on RI3
waxen relic
Not much worse than ZagSword is it?
sly remnant
Zag sword has some level of adaptability
You are essentially disabling the perk of poseidon sword with RI3
proud jay
you still get +50% cast damage and ability to dislodge
tidal flame
Just get Chaos boons 4head
waxen relic
Exit Wounds?
true fable
are we talking about heat balance again
waxen relic
And you can always just buy another Cast
sly remnant
you still get +50% cast damage and ability to dislodge
Sure which is a number built with the mirror in mind
sly remnant
Just make it a different mode
stiff aurora
Why make it 0 heat?
true fable
because then we dont have to pick it
sly remnant
Its existence is probably the largest factor in tiering aspects at high heat
true fable
but yeh idk the devs have said the games balanced so every aspect has a fair shot around 40
and i feel like that's held up
sly remnant
I agree with that
Any high heat balances we will have to do ourselves
Which will be contentious
proud jay
idk who wants to play a modded version of the game competitively though
true fable
im happy to mess around with spread fire zag rail on 40 and let others figure out how to break the game
40-45 is about my happy place in terms of heat
proud jay
im all for modding but it's nice for competition when everyone is playing the same version of the game
true fable
anything after that and RI/AP starts tilting the hell outta me
sly remnant
I agree bablo
Its the only reason I still complain about balance
In hopes that some things like mirror rearrangement could make things a bit more fair
true fable
seems like the balancing phase of this game is done
waxen relic
Just pretend they're different Numbers
true fable
ok thats quite a brainy move
waxen relic
Not like anything past 32 has ingame consequences. So if you come up with your detailed rebalancing of heat numbers i'd listen to what you think how hard it is and accept it. Not like i'm running Mirrorless for high Numbers.
solemn pulsar
Bright you could always just push for the highest heat you can do without AP
like pretend it doesn't exist
spring kettle
Charon%? How does that work? You can’t guarantee the fight
gaunt fiber
Reset city
true fable
i have >70 runs in the category and maybe 6 or so completions
stiff aurora
the consensus is that upgrading PP if you have no other sources of crit is bad, right?
I'm running chiron with low trolerance
also why do athena boon replenish SD, it does literally nothing
gaunt fiber
It grants you another DD if you used your SD before picking the boon
gaunt fiber
Because your SD will be back in the next room
stiff aurora
but you get iut at the end of the room anyway, so you gain nothing
unless you get it in asphodel and use it to heal or soemthing
gaunt fiber
You gain Athena DD + SD
stiff aurora
I should pick it next time lol
stiff aurora
Just to make sure since I am in an athena room right now, do I need to suicide before I finish the fight to get the extra defiance?
sly remnant
Yes
stiff aurora
ok
sly remnant
the consensus is that upgrading PP if you have no other sources of crit is bad, ...
Its contextual. Mathematically we would have to know your other boon options
Pom in PP is at its best when you have no other sources of crit
stiff aurora
it was jolted but I had already sold my activator and my attack that gets blocked by Dc 99%of the time
sly remnant
Unless you have no other choice selling PP when you have no other sources of crit is one of the worst things you can sell
stiff aurora
it was leveling, not selling
sly remnant
Ah. Makes more sense then
hard compass
dang I got coc ky and threw my first 16 heat run, could've won it easily
stiff aurora
6 seconds on the timer for phase 2 wish me luck lol
sly remnant
If you can not get hit there is still a chance
stiff aurora
damn so close
I prohably would have won if I had saved a meg
broken spearpoit does not work against timer damage, right?
sly remnant
It does not
vital grove
Stubborn roots 350 hp or flurry cursed can heal past timer
Otherwise you basically have 1 second per 5 hp
gaunt fiber
or Divine Protection and don't get hit
vital grove
Oh does that work? Nice
dire steppe
divine protection works because you can’t die while you’re impervious
TD damage doesn’t get blocked by it and doesn’t remove the shield
waxen relic
^ *Athena's Aid. Divine Protection is the legendary and as i've heard it just blocks while active
daring hedge
athena's aid can also be used to prolong a run before your own overtime death or sometimes victory
you'll take all the overtime damage but you stay at 1 hp until the aid is done
and then you just die if you haven't beaten the boss
proud jay
do you mean go for athena keepsake?
because surely every high heat player would choose an athena door when they see one
hestia can make good use of exposed too
rain sedge
yeah athena keepsake
I wonder if I should aim for athena dash, or if I just go bablo tooth
proud jay
i guess that's down to personal preference, since you could argue hestia needs athena less than other aspects
rain sedge
(ashpodel)
proud jay
is it really coined bablo tooth now?
proud jay
i wasn't actually sure if people were using it until i started using it
daring hedge
I wonder if I should aim for athena dash, or if I just go bablo tooth
you should save tooth for elysium imo
not worth the slot in aspho
rain sedge
I guess I'm just considering putting it there since I quite often die to lernie
I'm doing all aspects 40 heat but that's been going really badly
proud jay
there's a lot to learn
daring hedge
i guess i just prefer having a little more control or a little more money for aspho rather than assuming i could die there
proud jay
that's why i mentioned winstreaks
rain sedge
so you'd take a retrash purse on ashpodel?
daring hedge
yeah, i saw
rain sedge
yeah I'm always confused
if I get athena/dont need athena in ashpodel
I'm not even sure what's the optimum keepsake
I guess I'll just go with bablo tooth
because I feel skull earring is a bit too confident for 40
gaunt fiber
Acorn is good
proud jay
i would start with athena pretty much always
rain sedge
but then at lernie bablo tooth > acorn, no?
gaunt fiber
I don't think so
proud jay
general rule of thumb: if you didn't see athena yet, go athena keepsake in asphodel
rain sedge
is there a rule about boons after a mid shop?
like, I often see 2 rooms, 1 mid shop and another miniboss with boon X
and if I take the mid shop, I get miniboss with boon X afterwards anyway
proud jay
it's all random
if you try routing a run once, you'll notice that just one rng call changes absolutely everything
rain sedge
what happens if I have richocet and piercing fire on hestia?
does the attack bounce ones, then pierces?
proud jay
yes
proud jay
yeah doesn't make a lot of sense to take the second one
rain sedge
oh I suppose it pierces greatshields..
gaunt fiber
so the first bullet does not pierce?
proud jay
im pretty sure it doesn't
gaunt fiber
wow that's sad
rain sedge
I think that makes less sense, but I've seen weirder stuff
gaunt fiber
I was thinking about the fact that you can't get charged skewer after exploding launcher on spear
only the other way around
so maybe
tidal flame
just be more lucky lol
gaunt fiber
doable
rain sedge
so that was 40 hestia
I can see why this is people's choice for high heat, it needs very few boons to make it work
cerulean yarrow
out of curiosity, 32 heat specifically seems to be an important number
is there a reason why?
cerulean yarrow
ah, fair enough so it's something related to the story?
rain sedge
it's something you get along the way, and idk if you've just missed it, or just haven't got it yet
cerulean yarrow
i mean my highest is around 10 heat
rain sedge
it's not like, a major spoiler, but people have different spoiler tolerance
cerulean yarrow
maybe closer to 15 can't remember
my spoiler tolerance is at the level of i literally give 0 f's (unsure if i'm allowed to swear?)
onyx venture
I'm pretty sure it's just from doubling the thresholds for Skelly's statues
rain sedge
yeah that's cool, basically skelly give you "quests" and give you a statue
that might be related to how many nectars you've given him? I can't remember
cerulean yarrow
ah
rain sedge
and the last statue reqires 32 heat to complete
cerulean yarrow
i should start giving him nectar
rain sedge
so that's why a lot of people want to do 32 heat
I dont even know if it's nectar related btw, don't quote me on that
I think you also get some diamonds for the quest at 8 heat, which is the first statue?
but it's some skelly-story related
gaunt fiber
4th statue is 64
honest kernel
^ slowly but surely working towards that one
rain sedge
I heard the reward of that statue is that amir DMs you and grants you one wish
baj, you know what to ask for
honest kernel
Something related to AP ? 
gaunt fiber
A Skelly statue. Naked
honest kernel
^ Skelly welcomes you to the game's secret bone zone, located in Erebus
rain sedge
I wanna say sac, but AP works
gaunt fiber
oh boi
rain sedge
A Skelly statue. **Naked**
I wanna say weirdchamp yourself but... I'm pretty sure the emote is banned now
gaunt fiber
This is not twitch my friend
rain sedge
ok so, can someone smart and experienced in poseidon cast stuff tell me how good is the rupture boon?
@true fable
like, in practice, is it actually good? better than wave pounding/the other boons?
honest kernel
For Beo specifically, it's whatever
true fable
its the best DoT but its not as good as wave pound
honest kernel
^
rain sedge
hmmm but for room clear
true fable
theres just a lot of other good poseidon t2s
honest kernel
Or Breaking Wave for rooms
true fable
on high heat i like it a lot
honest kernel
Rupture's a weird in-middle
true fable
since its dot
honest kernel
At high heat you don't one-shot stuff immediatly
Sooo Rupture actually does decent
But it's the weird middle-ground between Wave Pounding and Breaking Wave
That also has a bonus chance to show up I think ?
Also helps activate Priviledge Status but that's barely relevant when Family Favorite exists lol
rain sedge
I'm just trying to understand cast builds better for my subsequent 40
also I probably should've taken more JS and CP instead of CF2 for this
dire steppe
https://prnt.sc/wk056cm sigh i see green boon, i take green boon
hard compass
have any of you guys playing on controller remapped any control?
honest kernel
https://prnt.sc/wk056cm *sigh* i see green boon, i take green boon
Screenshot got nuked
dire steppe
splitting headache, rare Bad Influence, or Calculated Risk
for drunk flourish on rama
lol
true fable
CF2 is really really bad on any castspect yeah
honest kernel
Is it just me
honest kernel
or is Rigged's screenshot borked
dire steppe
idk why
honest kernel
🤷♂️
dire steppe
maybe some sort of auto NSFW filter got it
rain sedge
CF2 is really really bad on any castspect yeah
I'll keep it in mind
but it's hard to take any other heat
honest kernel
I'd say for 40 it's bad, period
CF1's ok
But not ideal
Also, side-note : I might pull a Retrash and do coin purse starts for 62 heat
Thunder Signet start's good on both Zeus attack and Zeus special
But I'm also willing to explore other options
Shackles isn't cutting it
alpine sleet
What about pom start
honest kernel
Not a bad idea either
hard belfry
shield of chaos + curse of pain + dread flight + spam special
honest kernel
But also means I'd get 1 pom at best
Since I want Skull Earing eventually
And eventually usually means Asphodel
honest kernel
Don't think so
rain sedge
I'm suddenly at 3 HP on a really good poseidon run
for no reason
I'd be real upset if I die
honest kernel
But they also hurt a bit
so at 3 HP you die either way
I think HS won't boost it, but HL and FO does
rain sedge
ok I survived
honest kernel
Not 100% sure on that, needs testing
honest kernel
Noice
rain sedge
so much damage
it's really weird
like you know the lava bombs that's left on the floor
rain sedge
might have to test that at some point
omg easy greater recall
I high rolled for it and got it
let's goooo
uh oh
I have lost my bablo teeth at a than room somehow
im in trouble
that poseidon 40 was much easier than when I tried it last time
alpine sleet
HS is actually so strong
true fable
its free heat just dont step on traps
tidal flame
^
rain sedge
AP2 is free 5 heat too, don't you know?
you can only pick 1 boon anyway, just be luckier, that easy
opal token
I should just turn on FO2 now to get used to it yes? I’m at 20 Heat with almost everything on FO1
shy gulch
if you’re planning on going higher heat then yeah turning on FO2 to get used to it isn’t a bad idea
stiff aurora
If I turned on fo2, I could spec out of hl2 and cf1
Unless I am remebering the heat values wrong
rain sedge
what's the reason of doing stygian vs infernal soul on spear runs again?
true fable
infernal is 3
stygianis one on cooldown
hope that helps
for a more serious answer both can work, styg might be more flexible if youre not hard focusing casts on 40
imo
not sure how other achilles players feel about it
lime moss
Do the bounties change with higher heat level or is it just more titan blood/diamond/ambrosia?
rain sedge
is there any other benefit other than easier ravenous will?
true fable
is there any other benefit other than easier ravenous will?
better hermes with styg soul
rain sedge
it just replaces quick reload with auto reload, no?
rain sedge
makes sense, thanks good player bright01
true fable
no problem very casual pc player schadenfreudic
rain sedge
the white lernie head is the worst
true fable
..white?
tidal flame
blu
rain sedge
can you sell life affirmation?
true fable
ye
rain sedge
lernie is ruining my 40 zag spear runs
ugh
somehow the autotargetting prefers the invincible big lernie head instead of the small ones
so annoying
rain sedge
the 2 good runs that went to lernie had flurry or exploding launcher
zeus keepsake start
seems to work well
true fable
yeah i just did zeus start and reset for flurry/serrated
stiff aurora
That sounds fun I need to do that. Do you just scale zeus or do you do anything beyond that?
sudden cargo
yeah i just did zeus start and reset for flurry/serrated
Do you try to take both of these at the same time?
true fable
no
sudden cargo
Oop!
true fable
they are terrible together and ruin each other
sudden cargo
I thought it would be great yeah but it ruined me
Just checkin it wasn't just my problem haha
mossy zinc
is it really coined bablo tooth now?
Pretty sure it's only Schad lol.
green citrus
do u use it when u use LC
Yes, if you run LC4, stubborn defiance is the only way to heal.
alpine sleet
damn
green citrus
It's hard to learn to sometimes intentionally die with the defiance active before you enter the next room lol
dire steppe
Yes, if you run LC4, stubborn defiance is the only way to heal.
as well as max HP items, chaos curse ending, draining cutter, guan yu, and cursed slash
true fable
you forgot about s t u b b o r n r o o t s
edgy arrow
lowkey can’t wait for someone to clear max heat with stubborn roots
then we’ll have a bunch of people running around thinking it’s an S tier boon in every situation
true fable
my 50 heat beo was with stubborn roots
or was it unshakeable mettle?
wait no it was stubborn roots
shy gulch
i think it was roots
edgy arrow
my cousin’s still convinced that dem call is the best one, since that routed 57 kane did a yonk ago
true fable
you know your build is wonky when you have 3 green/orange boons and cold fusion is the most useful
edgy arrow
i tried to tell him he’s wrong
mossy zinc
The damage can be good if you hit a lot of enemies with it, and JS3 has a lot of enemies.
edgy arrow
if you add in T2s you gotta compare it to rip current pos and double strike zeus
fair
there are certainly worse boons
mossy zinc
And they're Lady Demeter boons. 
edgy arrow
lmao truth
edgy arrow
as for the boons.... ehhhh
mossy zinc
I did not.
shy plinth
It was such a good run lol
And by good I mean entertaining
The rng was... something
edgy arrow
the hyper sprint + rush delivery combo on his hera run made up for it
shy plinth
The purple rush delivery
But man that beo was CURSED
It was maybe the worst tartarus I've seen
edgy arrow
yeah lol
daring hedge
or was it unshakeable mettle?
i'm glad i'm not the only one who for some reason sometimes mixes up these two duos in my head
the icons are similar and also they're just underwhelming athena duos
that's my excuse
edgy arrow
i’m just glad i can remember which is hera and which is hestia these days
daring hedge
lol
gaunt fiber
Heristia
spiral drum
after tight deadline, what's the second heat to go for?
true fable
how high do you wanna go
spiral drum
2...i thought that was clear
true fable
ooook
spiral drum
wait, i see what you mean, my bad
spiral drum
is hard labour 1 worth it?
shy gulch
heightened security is a trap
spiral drum
it didnt sound so bad, but i can also tell why it'd be a problem
true fable
its never a problem until it is
my favorite HS moment is losing my SD to a dad spear throw and then immediately panic dashing and dying to an urn
spiral drum
wait the urns are amplified too?
true fable
indeed
proud jay
that's the main issue
spiral drum
I thought you'd just SD to lava or something
spiral drum
TD1 geniunely doesn't feel any different to no heatr
spiral drum
it's only a problem if you camp theseus
shy gulch
lava and urns are the worst parts for me
spiral drum
what is the significance of 32 heat? (Don't tell me if its a story spoiler)
proud jay
there's a reward
true fable
HS is also like 0 heat but the traps do +400% damage
tidal flame
Big if true
spiral drum
what i meant to say is, if you play a 0 heat run and then play a TD1 run, it doesn't feel any different
tidal flame
RI4 is just like 0 heat but mostly freshfile
true fable
thats fair
true fable
RI4 is just like 0 heat but mostly freshfile
well its really like 0 heat but with no mirror talents
spiral drum
RI4 sounds really scary
tidal flame
It is
true fable
im sad
i tried RI4 32 heat beo on a whim
got fully loaded first chamber of asphodel
died to some rando wavemaker room
edgy arrow
rando wavemaker rooms the toughest boss in the game prove me wrong
tidal flame
If they just stop jumping across the map for 1 s that would be great
edgy arrow
^^^
gaunt fiber
rando wavemaker rooms the toughest boss in the game prove me wrong
BP bow
tacit dragon
The one thing slightly less infuriating than armored Satyrs
edgy arrow
satyrs are fine; they stand still (relatively) while i whack them
BP bow?
doesn't like wavemakers?
nothing likes wavemakers
gaunt fiber
Might be the bow duel
spiral drum
has max heat been done before?
static plover
It hasn't
thick tendon
How the hell could you actually manage that? XD
static plover
Highest heat currently done is Tailesque at 60 heat 
spiral drum
i thought max is 59? unless i havent unlocked it yet
thick tendon
Like, I played a ton of Bastion and even completed the final Who Knows Where area with all of the gods invoked, but I feel like even that wouldn't be as hard as a max heat run of hades.
edgy arrow
i thought max is 59? unless i havent unlocked it yet
yeah there's 4 heat that you need to do story stuff to unlock, and the other 1 comes from hell mode
static plover
EM4 is 4 heat that you don't get access to buy from the contractor till post credits
vital grove
Speeder Damage Bows on FO2 Hl5 are legitimately harder than EM4
Instant hit arrows for like 40 i think
When you play Zeus shield with battle Rage does the entire throw benefit from the boon after you kill something, until recalled?
honest kernel
When you play Zeus shield with battle Rage does the entire throw benefit from th...
Only works for the first hit
It sucks
proud jay
maxy?
proud jay
oh ok
mossy zinc
My Maxy win rate is a consistent 0%.
true fable
specifically EM4 maxy now
mossy zinc
It's low, but it's consistent.
true fable
my favorite is the naked spear throw for 88 damage
mossy zinc
m happy with consistent.
mossy zinc
I like the off-screen spear throws for 88 damage.
true fable
i have a feeling my spacing is bad but getting better
i think you wanna be like just on the edge of his spins
vital grove
Maxy would be what? Em4 Hl5 fo2 and calisthenics 2? BP2 MM I guess
solemn pulsar
Em4 doesn’t summon the MM versions of the midbosses? Could have sworn the giant head threw out the big shockwaves but I’m probably remembering wrong
mossy zinc
They're unique variants.
solemn pulsar
Ah that’s right
rain sedge
so dunko told me on stream yesterday that flurry jab is more dps than serrated edge, even with zeus attack
is that true?
mossy zinc
Absolutely.
rain sedge
but the serrated edge, it doex 3x chain lightning in one dash strike, no?
mossy zinc
It does? I don't think so. 
Even if it does, it only applies to Dash-Strikes. Flurry Jab is just ridiculously fast.
chilly sun
not sure if this goes here but completing 28 heat unseeded while i was downright exhausted makes me feel happy about my skill with the game
rain sedge
wow, you can miss the second hammer completely huh
TIL
that zag spear 40 was pretty smooth, flurry jab really is OP
solemn pulsar
flurry jab dash attacks end up with like 3x attacks in there anyway, and you can dash attack faster than with serrated
the good thing about second hammer on a flurry spear build is that it's completely irrelevant, so missing it is ok
opal token
Noob question: how do I kill FO2 Sneak miniboss in Tartarus lol
daring hedge
the good thing about second hammer on a flurry spear build is that it's complete...
this is so true that you actively avoid a second hammer with AP2 high heat flurry jab because serrated could mess it up
daring hedge
Noob question: how do I kill FO2 Sneak miniboss in Tartarus lol
biggest opportunities are after it tries to backstab you of course
use those to burst it
spring kettle
Ah, i remember seeing a high heat run of yours in which you avoided a second hammer but 5 sack forced it on you anyway
daring hedge
Ah, i remember seeing a high heat run of yours in which you avoided a second ham...
lmao yeah, zag spear 52
opal token
Maybe uhh Shackle from Sisyphus
mossy zinc
Noob question: how do I kill FO2 Sneak miniboss in Tartarus lol
Wait for first teleport > summon Antos > dash between the two exits > pick up boon.
opal token
Mm thanks guys will try both
mossy zinc
Can also summon Meg on the first teleport to burst through the armor.
solemn pulsar
this is so true that you actively avoid a second hammer with AP2 high heat flurr...
there's a bit of poetic justice about rolling the 1 hammer you want with AP2, and then AP2 giving you the one that screws it over most
rain sedge
what's a cool setup for beo 40 @true fable ?
EM4, DC0, CF0?
and flood flare into supporting boons (fully loaded, mirage shot)?
infernal soul too?
solemn pulsar
40 heat speed PB for me
solemn pulsar
video going right now, but there is someone faster
daring hedge
hadesprof just recently got a 9:08 40 heat hestia which is probably going to go up soon
daring hedge
lmao
solemn pulsar
in other news this run finally got my my last bounty for rail LOL
only weapon i have all 20 heat clears for
dire steppe
fists are the only thing standing between me and 6x32
i tried demeter with zeus attack artemis special but i just kept dying to random stuff
either furies or asphodel regular encounters or lernie
solemn pulsar
Just run Athena dash
Or Athena instead of Artemis
The extra DDs are great, and the deflect keeps you from taking damage
Or do meme run of zag fists + divine dash + lambert plume
dire steppe
I usually do pick up athena dash when I can
solemn pulsar
what's your pact setup?
dire steppe
HL5 LC4 EM3 BP2 DC2 UC MM TD3
solemn pulsar
no forced overtime? that's pretty free heat
FO1 at least
if you can deal with it ofc
FO2 is a lot for fists if you're not used to it
dire steppe
I’m already getting hit too much on fists lol i think FO would just make it even worse
solemn pulsar
i mean try FO1 and taking like 3 points out of hard labor to see how you do
feel like that's a decent trade
waxen relic
It's just a matter of taking a step back and playing more carefully if you die in Asphodel Chambers.
turbid bobcat
just tried 32 heat for the first time and got destroyed in Asphodel
alpine sleet
Wjat does em4 do?
Like what changes to hades
Cause I don't wanna get clapped by smt super unexpected
cyan ether
So I heard you like metal in your secret third phase
alpine sleet
O
scarlet ruin
try a run with only EM4 to scout it out
alpine sleet
Kk
rain sedge
Wjat does em4 do?
wiki has a section on it
alpine sleet
O alr ty
rain sedge
tl;dr it's really hard, very few people do it below 50+ other than retrash
alpine sleet
I must have skimmed past it
rain sedge
by that, we mean "it's really hard combined with other heats", not hard in itself
cyan ether
Overall:
Hades will always have access to his Phase 2's Spear Combo (Slash Slash, Spin or Throw)
Hades throws his spear, rushing to it a la Achilles (The rush will deal contact damage)
Hades' Casts will have a small aura around them to slow you down
Normal Spin Slashes will be quickly followed up with another Spin Slash
Phase 1:
Summons Minibosses instead of Normal Enemies (i.e. Doomstone, Sneak, 2head, Big Butterfly). These will occasionally cloak.
Phase 2:
Vases will be constantly summoned
Laser Attack will have a pulse that will push you away
Hades will heal himself 3 times (1500 x 3) using and triggering the Vases after 50% HP
Sometime after 50% HP, he will cloak and summon Cerberus to stampede across the field, causing debris to fall.
Phase 3:
Your vision is darkened and limited
Hades will sometimes cloak
Hades will sometimes heal
if you ever want a tl;dr
rain sedge
what an amazing tl;dr
daring hedge
pretty sure the slash slash to single spin or throw is still only phase 2 onward
also vases that are being used to heal (glowing brighter) can be destroyed to prevent the heal
mossy zinc
HL5 LC4 EM3 BP2 DC2 UC MM TD3
Take CF2 over DC2. DC2 sucks.
Why would you willingly make all your first 1-2 hits not stun enemies on a weapon that wants to be point-blank? DC2 is for much higher heats.
Hades skull casts are also much more of a problem with DC2.
mossy zinc
First two hits of any buffed Specials will also do no damage on unhurt enemies when that could have probably one-shot the enemy or burst through the armor.
daring hedge
oh and hades' rush to retrieve his thrown spear doesn't do contact damage
just the thrown spear itself
mossy zinc
I don't see a reason for JS CP or DC at 32 unless you like play Rama which really doesn't care about DC2.
Room clear is just so much faster without that.
shy plinth
Only reason is if you want to play with less HL
mossy zinc
But not if you die to "random stuff". Still better to have few enemies that hit hard than a lots of enemies or more buff enemies that still hit pretty hard regardless.
I'd take JS over DC, though.
FO2 over HL5 is a consideration. I've done that a lot of times before on Malphon.
true fable
pretty sure the slash slash to single spin or throw is still only phase 2 onward
yes this is true
as someone who dies in phase 2 often
mossy zinc
That's correct. He also loses his slash > slash > spin in phase 3.
So, it will always be slash > slash > throw in phase 3.
true fable
good to know
dire steppe
Will try HL1 LC4 FO2 EM3 UC MM BP2 TD3 I guess
rain sedge
oh and hades' rush to retrieve his thrown spear doesn't do contact damage
every day I learn something new
mossy zinc
That's good. Some people never learn at all.
dire steppe
is it a big brain strat to take lv1 infernal for rav will and just cast it in the corner
mossy zinc
lol I guess that works.
But casts can add very good DPS or utility depending on aspect.
I guess +10% DR and +30% damage is also DPS and utility.
dire steppe
Athena is like my default cast if I don’t need it for anything
waxen relic
Do RI3 and it's a legit strat
mossy zinc
Stygius and Varatha benefit a lot from any Cast.
Malphon mainly from Phalanx Shot unless it's Talos.
true fable
yeah it is
rain sedge
hello good player bright01
I seem to be having difficulty clearing beowulf 40 as I am a casual
would you kindly advise me please
well that 40 heat zag rail was a lot of fun
mossy zinc
Spread Fire is very strong.
rain sedge
this triple bomb lucifer
needs to be illegal
what in the world
I took it since the other hammers are pretty bad but... I didnt expect it to be this strong
alpine sleet
Yessit
Luci triple bomb
Is strong af
Esp with like aphro special, chaos special
rain sedge
I did get both
cool that's all the rails 40 heat
maybe spear and shield is next easiest
daring hedge
triple bomb and greater inferno with deadly flourish is absolutely insane
alpine sleet
Yup
daring hedge
yes, but +250%
rain sedge
I got offered that, but didn't take it since the special instant explode anyway
daring hedge
that with crits is ridiculous
rain sedge
20 damage per second looks like
hmmm maybe I should've taken that
that's +50 dps
and the chaos + aphro special I had
and triple bomb
ok I regretted that but whatever I cleared it
alpine sleet
Oh wiat nevermind
Oops
The deadly flourish thing with that hammer isn't that good
Since ur projectile probably won't last a while
rain sedge
that's my mentality yeah
but the alternative hammer I took was piercing fire which felt useless
daring hedge
The deadly flourish thing with that hammer isn't that good
it is good
especially at high heat when you can't always blow up all your bombs immediately e.g. EM4
and the pulses come out pretty much immediately after the bombs land anyway
alpine sleet
Ig
But that also means committing one of your gods to Artemis
Which ig isn't the worst idea but
shy plinth
I am a-okay with artie
gaunt fiber
Arty good
dire steppe
I can't tell if this is just visual or not
But if you die while using Dio's aid
it keeps pulsing during the death defiance animation
daring hedge
I can't tell if this is just visual or not
just a visual thing, it can't actually stack hangover at that rate during the defiance slow down
there are some other visuals that do similar things that i can't recall off the top of my head right now
warm osprey
dire steppe
https://prnt.sc/wkjho2 advice?
daring hedge
frozen touch
daring hedge
it's not great and dilutes your pool for pommable boons
like seriously why is it pommable i hate that
mossy zinc
Really? I think Frozen Touch is really good. 10 stacks of Chill immediately is very nice.
spring kettle
revenge boons aren't that great because of the having to take damage part
daring hedge
only after getting hit, though
gaunt fiber
Frozen touch never works for me it's strange
daring hedge
and at least with quick recovery you just heal off half the damage
mossy zinc
You'll get hit, though.
daring hedge
yeah and quick recov is better for that angle
rain sedge
I like frozen touch, I don't like how it's pommable
mossy zinc
Quick Recovery is more money.
rain sedge
and I want to see the stat of how many % of the time is quick recovery activated, since I feel like it's really low
what's the timing window, even
mossy zinc
I'd probably sell Calculated Risk for the cash.
daring hedge
you're showing it in that screenshot rigged
dire steppe
mfw i thought the purple was dio's aid
mossy zinc
And Quick Recovery for the cash.
dire steppe
calculated risk is slept on
daring hedge
calculated risk is really nice for stuff like hades skulls
mossy zinc
It is.
spring kettle
and the poison in the tunnels
dire steppe
calculated risk should also apply to enemy move speed and stuff too
who needs arthur
mossy zinc
But imo it's not 410 obols worth of nice.
dire steppe
draining, rush kick, or colossus?
i guess colossus is fre hp
first hammer was explosive upper
daring hedge
it is hard to resist big money
north dove
rush kick is awful
dire steppe
ok so colossus it is
https://prnt.sc/wkjlmq blessed pause
also 2 miniboss chambers rn so I have a 50% chance to die
dead
mossy zinc
Draining is nice, actually, but I wouldn't take it if I already have Explosive Upper because you'll want to Dash-Upper every time when you have that.
No Lucky Tooth in Elysium?
mossy zinc
Oh yeah, you were trying 32 with Malphon.
dire steppe
I tried taking FO2 cause you told me to
mossy zinc
Ditch either EM3 or FO2. Don't do both with Malphon at 32.
mossy zinc
Yeah I somehow didn't process that you had EM3 at 32. EM3 FO2 is brutal on Malphon even with a lot of practice.
You could take some in JS and HS to lower FO or HL if you wanted.
I wouldn't take AP because Breaching Cross and Explosive Upper are too good.
gaunt fiber
Casually skipped Patroclus cause I wanted that hammer
mossy zinc
I usually die to Furies in runs like that.
dire steppe
correct
mossy zinc
gaunt fiber
I usually die to Furies in runs like that.
You can die?
mossy zinc
All the time.
rain sedge
Hello good player @mossy zinc
What advice would you give a casual to clear 40 heat on fists?
All aspects
I seem to die consistently at dad
Even with divine dash
rain sedge
remember the 5 god in a run thing we talked about?
I might have an idea how that can happen
3 god in the pool --> go to a mid shop --> a boon form 4th god is offered --> but the gate to the next room is already predetermined as a different god --> 5 god
maybe
shy plinth
Yes
main pelican
hm so with that u could potentially get every god in a run right
if u get 5 gods in tarturus
shy plinth
That is one of the current monthly challenges
mossy zinc
@rain sedge we know that one. It's that Tailesque and I both are pretty sure we've seen a natural 5th god outside of shops that we haven't figured out and can't reproduce (yet).
Divine Dash doesn't really help too much vs Hades except for his skull casts. Your main damage will come after spins and when he summons his urns or uses beams. His thrust can never hit you if you just strafe him. That makes it much easier to deal with at melee range.
true fable
i havent had trouble with his thrust just dash attacking with divine dash but i defer to your exp
also are there new monthly challenges
/will there be
no presh either way just curious
mossy zinc
Yeah, there'll be new challenges this week.
You can Dash-Strike at some angles; just if you only have one dash (left), you won't be able to i-frame a spin.
main pelican
That is one of the current monthly challenges
has anyone completed it?
mossy zinc
Yes.
true fable
🙋♂️
mossy zinc
Challenges are pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat.
main pelican
i see, thanks
mossy zinc
Yes. Three people.
mossy zinc
true fable
nice
mossy zinc
Good luck!
@daring hedge should do the Zagreus Is Comin' to Town challenge at 50 Heat.
true fable
why not you
shy plinth
has anyone else done a legit 10 god
I did!
prime lintel
Yes. Three people.
wait seriously? how?
gentle bridge
i was close to ten god, then i think i forgot to keepsake at elysium. sad
cant wait for the new challenges too 
true fable
wait seriously? how?
you have to get 3 gods before tart midshop
mossy zinc
Extra Challenge:
Have boons from all the gods. That's 10!
Hint: ||You'll need boons from three different gods before the mid-shop in Tartarus!||
“Didn't you forget somebody?”
prime lintel
oooooh
tidal flame
Is that counting Chaos?
gentle bridge
yea
shy gulch
wait is it? chaos isnt an olympian god i thought
mossy zinc
No, Master Chaos and Lord Hermes don't count for that. But you'll need both to get 10 gods.
tidal flame
Honestly I'm confused now lol
shy gulch
so you need chaos and hermes for the 10, but they dont count in the 3 gods referenced in the hint
tidal flame
You get a pool of 4 god + 3 forced ones from keepsakes = 7. Then 7 + hermes + chaos = 9?
Or does Charon VIP card count as a boon?
shy gulch
you can get a 5 god pool naturally
if at tart midshop you have 3 boons
in the shop theres a 4th, and the door has a 5th
then force 3 others, plus chaos and hermes for the 10
shy gulch
lol
tidal flame
so does this mean that you will see one God once?
because the max pool is 4, so one will be kicked out naturally?
this is news to me lol
mossy zinc
Gods aren't removed from the pool, yeah.
shy gulch
4 is the normal limit, but if your pool gets larger then the pool just gets larger
tidal flame
when was this discovered and how did I miss that lol
shy gulch
the shop boon + exit door boon thing is the only way afaik to naturally get a 5 god pool
mossy zinc
We thought that was maybe the case, but we know now that it's not.
Any boon that appears is from a random god until you have 4 or more.
When you have 4 or more, it will only show you boons from gods you already have.
mossy zinc
I know about it from ellomenop.
mossy zinc
Like a month or two ago? Not sure for how long they've known about it.
If you have only 3 gods by the Temple of Styx, you can even see 6 or more gods naturally because all the boons that show up there will be random.
In theory, you should be able to get all 10 gods that way without using a god keepsake.
shy plinth
Fated authority goes a long way for the challenge
halcyon flame
does em asterius have more health?
shy gulch
i dont believe so
true fable
asterius is indeed the same
waxen relic
I was just thinking, if you force a god in Tart, start with Hammer, and then get to pick a different god 4 times cuz double exits or Erebus, wouldn't it be possible to get 5 different ones in Tart without the Midshop thing?
shy plinth
The mid-shop thing is the only way to get two diff gods in one room
If there was a double exit/erebus gate you'd have to pick one, right?
Then you hit the 4 god max and pool closes
true fable
yeah
shy plinth
Mid-shop thing lets you take a 5th god with 4 gods in your pool and I believe is the only way to do it
true fable
the way nyaanyaa mentioned above works
shy plinth
Except for the styx thing that Nyaa said above (which is super unlikely but possible)
Like that requires you to never have a single exit room with a 4th god for the first 3 acts
waxen relic
Then you hit the 4 god max and pool closes
and then you still have your keepsake up is what i meant.
waxen relic
More possible if you go into Asphodel with 3, force one but it's in Erebus and you don't want to take it so you take a different one, but it still gets forced afterwards.
chilly sun
doing 50 heat arthur
managed to snag divine dash
and then dionysus gave me attack im kaughing so hard
new meta
true fable
oh wow we have a whole 2 dedicated arthur players in this channel now
that's 2 more than i thought we'd ever have
gaunt fiber
That's funny because you could easily replace Arthur by a certain spear aspect and that would be true still
gaunt fiber
Sad
I got an idea for GY 40. I'll play one keepsake a day
To explore even greater builds
mossy zinc
I was just thinking, if you force a god in Tart, start with Hammer, and then get...
Oh yeah, if you skip your keepsake god in Tartarus until you have 4 other gods, your keepsake god could show up and you get a 5th. Can also get a fourth and then a fifth (from keepsake) in any other region that way.