and AP is AP, you need boons for cast builds so its awful
#h1-high-heat-strategies
shy gulch
next marsh
i mean like are they theoretically viable for max heat
daring hedge
yeah my hera 50 had AP2 and it was kind of miserable
daring hedge
max heat or 60 heat cast aspect would be such a nightmare
shy gulch
yeah lmao
the only "cast" aspect i would consider is achilles since you can just get flurry jab and do flurry jab things instead
or the best cast aspect, eris
daring hedge
yeah exactly
true fable
tail have you hopped on the mom pom train for poseidon
shy gulch
ellomenop
tidal flame
or the best cast aspect, eris
Do you mean castspect?
daring hedge
how much did haelian pay you to say that
tidal flame
Too little
true fable
ello started it and then i ran it and was like
this is actually good
i dont know if you remember but like
4 days ago i was just telling kids in buildsn combat that mom pom was a terrible keepsake
shy gulch
lmao
true fable
and then i saw ello starting with it and got my first sub 9 sword with it lol
shy gulch
well u had a fair point bc of how ppl generally use it
mom pom to START is something a bit new
true fable
yeah i think running it in styx is a misplay
starting with it is the only thing that makes sense
true fable
please do
next marsh
sometimes i take it in elysium if i am ahead, but i have a hard time imagining thats viable at high heat
mossy zinc
mom pom to START is something a bit new
That's new? 
shy gulch
new to me
daring hedge
4 days ago i was just telling kids in buildsn combat that mom pom was a terrible...
LOL i do remember this
true fable
yeah i think it's new
who else has been saying it?
if it's you i probably tuned it out tbh
shy gulch
daring hedge
mossy zinc
Pretty sure Pom Blossom start is the first thing people did with it when they added it.
shy gulch
i often saw ppl taking it in styx like bright said
next marsh
i mean, its the probably the best option if you get a 5sac
and hey, some people's luck, right?
lol
mossy zinc
"i often saw ppl taking it" sounds like a lie.
mossy zinc
Expert intuition.
pallid geyser
hey all - nemesis or poseidon for 40 heat? td 5 or 7? I'm a little stuck with the sword
solemn pulsar
if you're stuck with the sword I would go poseidon, lets you rely on the cast a little more
sly remnant
poseidon is easier nemesis (with dedge) is faster
i think both should run TD3 (5 min / region) tho
solemn pulsar
it's tough to run 40 heat with TD7 but the cast would help with like DC2
if you wantted to make that trade, for instance
sly remnant
as someone who is currently trying to make dedge get sub 10 at 32
you'll have to essentially reset for dedge
and it sucks
TD3 is still good at 40 heat because you don't have to run that many pacts that slow you down
pallid geyser
thanks! I'll try both, don't mind resetting for double edge tbh
poseidon cast should be good to deal with dc2
do you run heightened security? i found it helpful at times so i can run convenience fee 1 instead and add more boons
sly remnant
if you play a castpect you basically always run CF0
you need a lot of boons
my 50 heat beowulf had CF0
I would back down to CF0 for 40 heat poseidon and find the heat elsewhere
heightened security is dangerous on sword for obvious reasons, but poseidon can get away with it the easiest
solemn pulsar
stop trying to make castspect happen
yeah with HS it's free heat until it isn't, basically
mossy zinc
TD3 is a potentially much easier run. TD2 is more consistent.
pallid geyser
damn, ok. giving cf0 a go now
mossy zinc
stop trying to make castspect happen
We should lock them all up for that and throw away the key.
pallid geyser
TD3 is a potentially much easier run. TD2 is more consistent.
makes sense, I've gone farther with td3 but the deadline is a bit stressful
dire steppe
hi lovely people
stiff aurora
is blood frenzy more valuable than PP for chiron?`I'm running SD
sly remnant
where are your sources of crit
or more accurately: does your main source of damage have crit
stiff aurora
nope, but I have chiron with zeus and smoldering air with ares call so some crit is nice
stiff aurora
I sold it already, 22% fflat damage seemed nicer for ahdes
sly remnant
blood frenzy is additive in most cases. its not going to do as much work for you as crit since you don't have crit on your main source of damage. PP was unlocking a part of the damage equation you didn't have access too so it was acting as a multiplicative source of damage
rain sedge
that being said PP is low % so the effective damage is low
stiff aurora
Hades would have been easy, smoldering air with ares is pretty great
1kish damage in a second while being immune
sly remnant
that being said PP is low % so the effective damage is low
is this true? every single percent of PP acts as a 3% damage multiplier on base damage, hammers (in some cases), chaos damage (in some cases), and plus damage
solemn pulsar
it's +2% damage not 3
sly remnant
crit is a times 3
stiff aurora
I had rare PP so it was 3 in my case
solemn pulsar
yeah but you have to average in the times it isn't critting
sly remnant
that would make it a 9% damage increase on all the different sources of damage
if it was rare
solemn pulsar
trust me I thought the same thing on this but ello called me out hard once
rain sedge
I'm pretty sure it's +2% global multiplier on every % of crit chance, right?
solemn pulsar
effectively yeah
sly remnant
i was wrong
rain sedge
I'm not sure if "global" is correct though, I don't know how it interacts with eris/skull earring
sly remnant
eris/skull are + damage
rain sedge
ok cool
solemn pulsar
2% crit is .98 * 1.0 damage + 0.02 *3.0 damage = 1.04 effective damage
rain sedge
well in that case
solemn pulsar
is the crude math without considering other buffs, but it averages out to effectively that
rain sedge
it might be more than what it looks like
because if it's global %, then it will be worth more than... what's that ares boon that give flat % increase to attack, cast, and special?
sly remnant
urge to kill
rain sedge
yeah that one
sly remnant
is the crude math without considering other buffs, but it averages out to effect...
this is only true at the beginning of the game. you have to consider base damage, + damage, and hammers
which most people will have by endgame
so +22% seems really cool until you consider the fact that you have a +110% heartbreak flourish
rain sedge
yea urge to kill is kinda, never a good option
sly remnant
its good for cast builds since they have difficulty getting access to + damage
but attack/special builds have incredibly easy access to plus damage and comparatively little access to crit and base damage
its why cast builds value +damage and crit so highly. they have almost no access to those 2 key parts of the equation. which they make up for in spades with tons of base damage scaling (poms)
but when you have no other sources of crit PP is one of the most valuable parts of a weapon's damage
as almost every other source is strictly additive
and replaceable with almost any boon
next marsh
also urge to kill is really good on arti boons, right?
sly remnant
its fine
next marsh
cause the base damage is low, so you get a larger effective damage boost
next marsh
well it depends on the build
sly remnant
but in a case where you have arti on your damage urge to kill is better than pressure points for sure
next marsh
but yeah, in most cases hunters mark is just amazing
sly remnant
you have to think of the increases as fractions of your current
next marsh
also how does the arti/aphro duo boon work?
sly remnant
so PP is insane when its the only source of crit since it increases your crit by huge amounts
solemn pulsar
urge to kill is better than the other BS ares offers, usually
next marsh
is it (100% base + 150% duo)*(300% crit)
solemn pulsar
no it's (100% base)* (450% crit)
next marsh
or is it (100% base)*(150% duo + 300% crit)
sly remnant
this is why
next marsh
ok, that makes sense
sly remnant
heart rend is nuts
next marsh
it would be even better the other way, i think
solemn pulsar
yes
next marsh
depends on how big your damage multiplier is in the first place, right?
solemn pulsar
but it's increasing crit value not damage value
sly remnant
yes but + damage in most cases is the easiest thing to increase
next marsh
true
sly remnant
so like heart rend being plus damage on casts would be absolutely broken
stiff aurora
why would mirage shot not require having a cast? I am not planning on ever using my cast but I feel bad rolling over it
sly remnant
to make its requirements easier
next marsh
i mean, just take and sell it
spring kettle
Neither does parting shot
stiff aurora
good point, I kind of want to roll for hunter's mark though
stiff aurora
oh well I am in tartarus I can get it later
spring kettle
It’s weird how some cast duos are so specific and others just require two core
sly remnant
hunters mark in tartarus is good stuff
next marsh
lol the duo in tartarus, nice
dire steppe
why does heart rend tootltip say 50% doe
next marsh
also can someone explain how pom scaling works?
rain sedge
someone mUST have a spreadsheet on that
dire steppe
also can someone explain how pom scaling works?
it’s manual so it’s different for every boon
rain sedge
@mossy zinc is my best guess
dire steppe
but pom scaling is independent of rarity
next marsh
i know poms fall off, but i dont know the equasions
sly remnant
some poms are linear i think
sly remnant
^yep thats what i thought
next marsh
dio hangover adds 2 for the first pom and 1 after that
sly remnant
but remember that the strict number increase is linear the effective percentage increase is of course worse
next marsh
and pressure points is always +1
spring kettle
When Haelian did his level 50 crush shot, I think someone observed that gradually, each Pom added +1.3%
next marsh
pressure points is always good to pom, which is nice
dire steppe
blinding flash used to be linear
stiff aurora
but remember that the strict number increase is linear the effective percentage ...
yeah you really don't notice much difference between something like 11 and 12 damage per tick
sly remnant
so pp going from 2 to 3 is a 50% increase, but 3 to 4 is a 33% increase
next marsh
i mean, thats a 9% damage increase, pretty good
sly remnant
^this should always be your thought process on choosing pom targets
if PP is your only source of crit it is almost always correct to pom it
this is simply mathematically true
dire steppe
this is simply mathematically true
I’d disagree tbh it’s a 33% increase in your crit rate to go from 3% to 4% but only a ~1.8% increase in your actual damage
Whereas a first pom on an attack boon is as much as +60%
And as long as that boon damage is a significant portion of your DPS it is going to be more worth it
next marsh
Well yeah the early poms on you main source of damage are always going to be huge
sly remnant
I’d disagree tbh it’s a 33% increase in your crit rate to go from 3% to 4% but o...
this is false as crit is multiplicative
gaunt fiber
I don't understand why a pig pom % upgrade would be relevant if your dps increase remains nothing
next marsh
But pp is good scaling that never falls off
dire steppe
it’s the opposite, it’s true because crit is multiplicative
your crit damage is x3 regardless of your other damage sources
sly remnant
remember this is only true given pp is your only source of crit
dire steppe
so 4% crit rate means your overall dps is 1.08 times as much
3% means it’s 1.06 times as much
next marsh
remember this is only true *given pp is your only source of crit*
Why?
sly remnant
if you increase from 2% to 3% you crit 50% more of the time
however crit chance is additive
dire steppe
if your crit rate goes from 0.000001% to 0.00001% it’s 10x as much crit but it doesn’t matter
sly remnant
so if you have arti on your attack and its your main source of damage you increase your crit chance from 17 to 18
your number of crits is percentage wise simply worse
dire steppe
N% pressure points when it’s your only source of crit increases your final damage by 2N%
next marsh
It adds the same amount of dps for each level tho, right?
dire steppe
It adds the same amount of dps for each level tho, right?
But the dps added by alternative boon choices is increased by having a higher crit chance
sly remnant
^exactly
dire steppe
But regardless it’s almost always wrong to pom Pressure Points unless your build damage is so spread out and you’ve gotten poms on your main boons already
mossy zinc
if you increase from 2% to 3% you crit 50% more of the time
lol going from +1 damage on a boon to +2 damage doubles the damage on the boon, but you're still only adding 1 damage.
I don't know how you don't even see how wrong that is.
stiff aurora
If you have 1 damage on the boon you can assume that you either have ridicoulus attackl speed or scaling
dire steppe
it’s slightly different when you bring hunter’s mark into the equation
sly remnant
and you increased it by 1
that would be one of the most valuable poms in the game
you are completely missing the point nyaanyaa
mossy zinc
Pomming Pressure Points is a total waste.
rain sedge
oh nya is here, do you have the boon pom increase spreadsheet?
dire steppe
3-4% pressure points increases the DPS of my 50DPS attack from 53 to 54
Pomming it (supposing 20 of that damage is from a boon) increases DPS from 50 to 58
true fable
if you have no other options you can pom PP but generally the draw of PP is going from 0--> X
sly remnant
@dire steppe wrong math. crit is X3. to with no plus damage and no hammers it is an increase from 56 to 58
dire steppe
Or technically 53 to 61.48
Lol no it’s not, 6 is 12% of 50
3% crit adds 6% dps
0.97 + 0.03*3
= 1.06
sly remnant
oh right
sorry
but you are removing the part of your equation that most builds have easy access to
which is + damage
mossy zinc
oh nya is here, do you have the boon pom increase spreadsheet?
Should be accurate for Attack. Haven't got around to correcting Special numbers, though. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
dire steppe
uh no i’m not, i’m supposing the main boon is 30DPS with +66% attack or whatever
er main attack would be 30dps without boon
sly remnant
then you have to distribute the 1.06 across both parts
true fable
anyone have a cast pom doc
dire steppe
Damage with 3% PP and 66% boon: 53
With 4% and 66%: 54
With 3% and 80(?)%: 57.24
mossy zinc
anyone have a cast pom doc
Nope. Haven't made one, never seen one.
rain sedge
nice thank nya
true fable
aight
dire steppe
If (1 + attack% + pom level boost)/(1 + attack%) is more than (100% + 2% + 2*PP%)/(100% + 2*PP%)
You should probably pom the main attack, unless your damage is spread out across multiple boons to the point where PP increases your DPS by more
vital grove
Thing is PP works for all sources of damage except for companions
stiff aurora
qq I did not get to sell my heroic useless dash
vital grove
Mistral?
stiff aurora
yes
dire steppe
The first pom on PP is like a 1.8% global dps increase so you can take that if your main attack poms suck that hard
true fable
ive come to really like mistral dash on zeus fists
its not tidal blade or pash dash
but its not a terrible choice
maybe i just dont care what dash i get lol
stiff aurora
I likle athena and poseidon the most
unless I have crazy zeus scaling or soemthing
and even then athena is prohably better
dire steppe
what if you build H u n t e r D a s h on zeus fists
it sounds stupid (because it is)
but it does add 70 attack% when you probably only have 20-25 from FF
sly remnant
The first pom on PP is like a 1.8% global dps increase so you can take that if y...
this is true in a case where you only use one thing ever for damage and it has insane scaling like heartbreak strike with no Family favorites, chaos damage, dash strike damage and no effective double/triple hammers/chaos boons
mossy zinc
its not tidal blade or pash dash
Tidal Blade? lol
stiff aurora
omfg I always forget to clear Dc before using meg
dire steppe
tidal, blade, or pash
true fable
omfg I always forget to clear Dc before using meg
another rite of passage
dire steppe
this is true in a case where you only use one thing ever for damage and it has i...
yeah or any flat damage boon like casts/zeus lightning/hangover
rain sedge
another rite of passage
another one is missing meg on sneaks
which is all I've been doing
sly remnant
one pom in common deadly strike is a 20 to 28% increase on top of Family Favorites damage, hunter dash damage, high confidence damage, chaos damage, and the thousands of other + damage sources
dire steppe
well if you pommed deadly strike that’s on you and also pomming PP is even worse there
rain sedge
how do you even hit that
bright will link you a video on it
rain sedge
I forgot some people don't live in front of their PC
true fable
but if you type in meg guide satanisachillguy on YT it should come up
sly remnant
and again this is all assuming you have no other multiplicative sources
sly remnant
- damage scales poorly the more of it you have since you normally have about 4-5 sources of plus damage
true fable
if youre on kbm i can help with directionals
sly remnant
but i agree with bad hammers, several levels of RI, UC, and AP that pomming plus damage is better
stiff aurora
yup
the bomber one seems overcomplicated, I just try to get all of them(or most of them on MM) in one spot and meg lol
rain sedge
I also don't think it's the best meg use
stiff aurora
yeah bombers is really easy and fast without meg
dire steppe
i want to summon the inferno bombers as a companion
stiff aurora
for thesius I prefer to meg just after he does his call over hitting both of them because it makes that part of the fight really quick
stiff aurora
he also throws massive aoe attacks around
sly remnant
a lot of the damage from initial theseus call can be i-framed dodge. and the threat in the heroes fight is asterios not theseus for most people.
esp given EM3
stiff aurora
I mostly play chiron, so for me asterius is fairly easy if you dodge his stuff and thesius really slows me down with his shield after he gets out of his cart
sly remnant
does someone know the base damage of zag sword dash strike off the top of their head
no FF, no boiling blood. nothing. just the number you get with his dash strike on first run
honest kernel
25 ?
rain sedge
sly remnant
k thx
cursive valley
Does nourished shoal override the no healing heat?
cursive valley
So it's worthless. Got it
honest kernel
It is actively detrimental
Since it is effectively an empty boon that could have been something useful
dire steppe
infinite
stiff aurora
250k darkness wtf
spring kettle
I like woodland
mossy zinc
Lady Aphrodite's is the best, and everyone who disagrees is evil.
stiff aurora
I think I'll do stygian first because I can just get it in 5 runs
mossy zinc
I think I'll do stygian first because I can just get it in 5 runs
Evil.
daring hedge
250k darkness wtf
lol it's 25k not 250k
daring hedge
250k would be incredibly unreasonable
stiff aurora
yeah I thought so too
you need 300kish for maxing out the activity director rank thing
iirc
daring hedge
yeah
ripe crane
I bought the first title and it was Alpha Warden, which is clearly the best title so I didn't buy any more
stiff aurora
unseen warden is obviously superior
sly remnant
after doing the math, weapons/aspects with singular sources of damage (namely sword and spear) the initial pom in their damage boon scales better than with a pom in PP. almost every other aspect with more mixed damage scale supremely better with PP if there are no other sources of crit on the damage boon.
but yes if for some reason you are running sword and not taking deadly strike and have Pressure Points, level up the strike boon
however PP should be the priority after main damage boon
and chaos makes the priority even closer. chaos actually changes a lot (assuming you get ideal chaos boons)
spring kettle
What if you have a chaos boon of +38% to attack damage and a common Artemis attack?
spring kettle
I feel like pp helps most when you have a variety of different damage sources, like a talos build that pivots between attack and cast
sly remnant
it helps the most there yea
altho even on bows (outside of zag) it actually does a ton of work too
spring kettle
But if your main one already has Artemis not much help there
sly remnant
yep
PP is good when your main damage sources do not have crit
which is what i've always said
sword is the biggest outlier in terms of levelling strike over PP
but 9 out of times 10 you'll have arti attack anyways
or be nemesis
dry flame
does anyone know if peer pressure is still gltiched
sly remnant
not sure. what was the glitch?
if anything this math convinced artemis is actually the best god in the game
tidal flame
if anything this math convinced artemis is actually the best god in the game
You don't even need math to get this conclusion.
sly remnant
i suspected anyways, but this sold me
eh
zeus is good too
and zeus has more utility
arti does one thing
spring kettle
Everyone’s favorite is either Aphrodite or Artemis
sly remnant
but she does it very well
spring kettle
The two polar opposites
sly remnant
zeus has insane duos and a lot of flat damage
but its hard to picture builds that don't want artemis
daring hedge
does anyone know if peer pressure is still gltiched
peer pressure bug is still there
spring kettle
I don’t think lightning bolts can crit, and neither can explosive return
I’m not sure if anything else can’t crit
sly remnant
i'm not sure on breaking wave
dry flame
peer pressure bug is still there
thanks i thought so
true fable
breaking wave can crit
sly remnant
thanks. TIL
however i imagine 9 times out of 10 its overkill
which is another reason i think zeus is still in consideration.
for best god
but crit is insane. we are talking the difference between levelling common heartbreak strike and levelling common pp being like 9 damage a dash strike with double edge on zag sword which is heartbreak strikes ideal scenario.
quartz mantle
peer pressure bug is still there
can someone explain this peer pressure bug I've seen it mentioned but idk what it's about
true fable
if the peer pressure stack is the only stack its damage is 8x
daring hedge
if an enemy has no hangover stacks, and one peer pressure stack passes to them, it does 8x damage
quartz mantle
Interesting
So you don't want to combo peer pressure with bad influence
Wait nevermind
I'm thinking of the wrong boons
But that is good to note
sly remnant
actually multiple sources of hangover is bad for even more rreasons because there is another bug where the most recently applied stack of hangover overwrites all the stacks under it
daring hedge
actually multiple sources of hangover is bad for even more rreasons because ther...
not certain if that's a bug really
might just be intended hangover behavior
it doesn't overwrite all stacks
just new in old out
so you could have 5 dio aid stacks and overwrite one of them with a weaker attack hangover
daring hedge
yeah it's a pain
quartz mantle
dio builds are truly big brain
daring hedge
my hades spear 52 had my attack hangover fighting my dio aid hangover whenever i used the latter
ugh
sly remnant
oh gross
spring kettle
Dio is like the only god that’s anti synergistic with himself because of how hangover stacks overwrite
Guess he truly is the party god, who thrives in duos
sly remnant
hey don't forget ares
who has 2 distinctly different playstyles
both of which are very high-rolly
spring kettle
True
sly remnant
and taking even one boon from the other playstyle completely dilutes your pool
daring hedge
i still lament how ares never had a legendary that combines doom and blade rifts in some way, similar to how black out combines festive fog and hangover
sly remnant
that would be super cool
and make ares make more sense as a god
question: was ares one of the first gods designed?
granted demeter was the last and she's a mess
true fable
i think poseidon would have a case if not for the sheer memes that are poseidon orange boons
for best god i mean
sly remnant
ye its true. poseidon good
also ocean's bounty and sunken treasure AP2'ing you sometimes
daring hedge
i don't think poseidon could ever be considered best overall imo
he has some great pluses but like
all of his stuff? big no
next marsh
Athena then?
lusty mirage
Zeus gotta be in contention
sly remnant
athena is....weird
true fable
artemis yeah
sly remnant
arti has no utility which is her biggest downside
true fable
but then you have big stinkers like clean kill and hide breaker
daring hedge
yeah, but crit usually doesn't even need much scaling
like you slap on your crit and maybe get mark
sly remnant
^boom
true fable
yup
sly remnant
all your damage problems are fixed
true fable
i think poseidons aid rip current singlehandedly vaunts poseidon to top tier for high heat
and then tidal dash carries his pool for anyheat
daring hedge
i think poseidons aid rip current singlehandedly vaunts poseidon to top tier for...
than thonk
true fable
ride the wave tail
sly remnant
poseidon's aid good
true fable
its so much damage lol
daring hedge
rip current simply does not exist with AP
true fable
fair enough
sly remnant
poseidon's kinda like athena
in that he is really good from 32-40
and up a bit sometimes through 45
but going past 50 both of them start to struggle
true fable
but if you get both of them
shy plinth
Feels like once AP starts kicking in you need to take gods that are good without boon stacking
true fable
youll never get stunned
daring hedge
unshakable mettle gaming
shy plinth
Big mets
true fable
thats right baby
shy plinth
If you're lucky you can find dio on top of that
true fable
10% DR vs bosses lets go
shy plinth
Get some big calcs
true fable
like neo
shy plinth
And then you gotta find demeter
Big roots
Does roots work with LC lol
I have never checked
next marsh
Oh nice
daring hedge
yes
next marsh
New record?
daring hedge
but TD makes it like, not great
yeah this was from a bit ago
vid has been uploaded
next marsh
Cool
shy plinth
TD does seem more relevant than roots
true fable
i got stubborn roots, second wave and cold fusion in my beo 50
it was some kind of unique AP pain
daring hedge
lmao
sly remnant
and you were only running AP1 too
if flood flare didn't exist
one of the biggest issues with my (admittedly few) 56 beo attempts was sometimes you'd walk into a poseidon room and essentially lose a boon
true fable
did you run AP2
daring hedge
very few are but we do it anyway because #h1-high-heat-strategies
at least beo kinda doesn't care about AP screwing over hammer selection
sly remnant
right it just has no ability to clear rooms without casts
north dove
laughs in charged + dread flight
shy plinth
Has anyone cleared high heat with dashing flight
I don't understand that hammer at all
daring hedge
it's actually pretty good on zag shield imo, especially with empowering
slap deadly flourish on it and regular chambers go pretty fast in conjunction w/ attack
dashing and dread is really nice too
shy plinth
Interesting
north dove
this was a fun chaos shield run with dashing flight #h1-victory-boasting message
shy plinth
That is a fascinating collection of boons lol
north dove
yeah lots of good stuff in there
rain sedge
I somehow died on demeter 40 with 5 divine dashes
his attack feels like it goes through my dashes, but with divine dash, the i-frame cancelling thing is moot right?
dire steppe
divine dash doesn’t actually give you i frames during dash strike
@mossy zinc knows more about this i think
found it
rain sedge
hmm, I see. So I guess some of dad's attacks are not deflect-able
next marsh
yeah dashing flight is actually pretty ok imo because it makes your shield return faster, so overall higher dps
not as good as a lot of other hammers tho
any tips on the spear for someone who hates the spear?
next marsh
makes sense
daring hedge
spear damage is mostly just overall kinda sad without either of those two hammers, or GY charged skewer
spring kettle
What about spear special?
Or are spear special builds just best attempted on GY?
I guess Zag aspect, despite supposed to enhance your special, really isn’t that good for it
daring hedge
spear special is pretty bad at high heat unless you get exploding launcher, and yeah GY basically gets exploding piercing launcher off the bat
zag spear can run with chain skewer for normal encounters
but obviously this falls off hard for bosses
gaunt fiber
spear special is pretty bad at high heat unless you get exploding launcher, and ...
I'd say that it's even better than exploding
The piercing parts helps a lot for the clear
daring hedge
that's why i called it exploding piercing launcher yeah
tidal flame
I can't read
We know
gaunt fiber
oof
rain sedge
I wanted to do high heat chiron but then I saw hadesprofessor has already done a 50 on it 😦
rain sedge
looks like he's going for all aspects 50+
gaunt fiber
2 according to him
rain sedge
wtf
gaunt fiber
he already did it
GY
I think it was tough for him
I asked for a bit of GY, the 4 runs he did died in tartarus/asphodel
but still it's the best spear to him
rain sedge
but still it's the best spear to him
weirdchamp
rain sedge
ok 45 heat chiron should do it I think
shy plinth
Just waiting on submissions for non-arthur swords, demeter fists, and GY yeah
rain sedge
ok it's nowhere as fun as I expected
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/796890805767634944/unknown.png 3-sack tiny vermin https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/796890829703872532/unknown.png 4-sack 
both made it to phase 3
weak mesa
demeter fists sound pretty boon reliant
how do you even do that at 55 heat, I like the shackle strats cuz I can just ignore most boons
north dove
RI0 means you'll just get some decent boons along the way, even with AP2
weak mesa
ohh right better rng and rerolls
north dove
yup
rain sedge
he already did a 57 nemesis
daring hedge
57 was seeded but yeah 55 would be highest unseeded melee
weak mesa
ooh that explains why i didn't see it in the pinned sheet
rain sedge
I feel like seeding first boon should just be allowed
it's just a matter of resetting enough to get that boon
ripe crane
^
weak mesa
would be hard to show that the rest wasn't seeded then as well, no?
ripe crane
Yes, impossible really
weak mesa
though, how far can you realistically seed a run if you don't do any rng manipulation (correct me if im wrong) with casting before doors etc.
rain sedge
I thought you can only seed the first boon?
weak mesa
I think i've seen videos where people keep doing different things until they get the desired result
gaunt fiber
Oh, no Schad.
weak mesa
then they take note of what made that result happen
gaunt fiber
You can route the whole run
ripe crane
Ya you can do that, it is called routing.
weak mesa
oh routing is the word, ty
but yea wouldn't it be obvious that a run was routed just from the footage
other than first boon which you wouldn't be able to tell
rain sedge
I thought you can only route so far? That being said, I don't know enough
but yeah, if we're talking about cheating, there's many ways that you can cheat undetected
you can change the boon rarities very easily by changing game file. Same as sac percentage
those will be undetectable
daring hedge
some routing techniques are easily identifiable at least
rain sedge
I guess it's always up to the people to stay honest
daring hedge
like if someone is randomly casting at a door they're trying to route
weak mesa
Should play on switch so it's safe :')
rain sedge
I know lmfao
gaunt fiber
like if someone is randomly casting at a door they're trying to route
I was thinking about casting randomly to troll a bit
rain sedge
just for a small price of ... a lot of things
gaunt fiber
for some unseeded high heat
weak mesa
exactly schad hahaha
daring hedge
astaos big brain rng manips
gaunt fiber
"dude you're obviously routing"
weak mesa
"bro i feel the rng"
gaunt fiber
that would be fun
weak mesa
i need to cast
daring hedge
this is going to give me exactly what i want
gaunt fiber
you know what
weak mesa
when you have 10k hours in the game
gaunt fiber
I do sometimes try to cast before a hammer room, hoping for skewer
weak mesa
you've memorized the rng function's path
daring hedge
but maybe that cast actually took skewer away from you
daring hedge
you
gaunt fiber
simple, but efficient
@honest kernel Nice one, lurker
woops they're a mod actually
nvm
daring hedge
rain sedge
pinging a mod monkaS
gaunt fiber
Farewell, boyos
weak mesa
o7
true fable
👋
tidal flame
Sorry we don't do cyber bullying here
tidal flame
"dude you're obviously routing"
Should we start casting randomly for good juju?
gaunt fiber
^
tidal flame
sounds good. 100% won't look suspicious for speedrun submission.
next marsh
(until you die to TD with a sliver of health left on the boss)
gaunt fiber
sounds good. 100% won't look suspicious for speedrun submission.
exactly
honest kernel
Don't mind me, just wacking shades in Sisyphus' room and getting Merciful End in the next encounter
north dove
oof... lost a run because I picked coin purse instead of skelly tooth 
gaunt fiber
I have a problem atm
tidal flame
we are here to listen
true fable
the retrash purse
sly remnant
h....h....how?
tidal flame
^
gaunt fiber
Idk, I never encounter athena so her keepsakes does not shock me lmao
only for my "speed" runs tho
true fable
it happens to me too lol
tidal flame
I'm so confused
sly remnant
i'm bad about it in elys to styx
honest kernel
I forgot to switch off Artemis' keepsake in one of my speedruns once lol
sly remnant
but i'm so terrified of elysium
gaunt fiber
h....h....how?
And the timer actually stops so I don't need to go fast lol
sly remnant
are you doing ME stuff?
gaunt fiber
Yeah kinda forced to
sly remnant
hmmm
gaunt fiber
serrated
gaunt fiber
yup
honest kernel
One or two procs is enough to kill every regular Elysium mob
on a fully completed build
rain sedge
did you get ME for your 62 attempt baj?
honest kernel
I think I did for one of my 59s
died in the next room like a dunce
But I don't think I should go for ME
Because until I realistically get the build online with AP2 (If at all), the timer would already have suffered from a pre-Merficul End build
Which is just ass
rain sedge
true true
sly remnant
i wonder if arti charged skewer is actually how you make GY go fast
gaunt fiber
i wonder if arti charged skewer is actually how you make GY go fast
I'll try it
sly remnant
I'll try it
i respect any heat runners but GY as an aspect hasn't been explored
daring hedge
i wonder if arti charged skewer is actually how you make GY go fast
from what bright has said it seems like that hasn't even been enough for super fast GY
and people seem to be gunning for ME lol
sly remnant
idk
honest kernel
Instead of gunning for Merciful End, you gun for a hammer AND Heart Rend
gaunt fiber
I think it's slower from experience
sly remnant
i trust your judgement
gaunt fiber
It's more fun to play because passion dash Heart rend tho
sly remnant
but flood flare beo was just siting there unexplored forever. i suspect most aspects are in a similar place
honest kernel
^ honestly, this
Like, I sure as heck know Zeus shield is underexplored for any heat lol
Not many runs, and the few scarce ones outside of mine were using Merciful End
Been having ok success so far with Tempest Strike start
Will look into that more, as well as Artemis Special start
daring hedge
i think any heat hades spear is in a similar spot, and i've been planning on testing a thing with it
daring hedge
mainly, dash spin onto enemies with passion dash, go for heart rend while serrated
fish for chaos lunges obv
sly remnant
whats the meta rn on it?
daring hedge
there is none
gaunt fiber
The good and bad thing about GY is that no one likes it
sly remnant
unexplored aspects are good
sly remnant
eh i'm not sure its good to compare aspects to each other
gaunt fiber
Yeah, aspect WR is fine
honest kernel
But Hades spear is not something under peeps' radar
Would be nice to see some runs on it
daring hedge
yeah, hades not getting flurry like achilles can get is already gonna push them apart
flurry just too good
honest kernel
Yeah
rain sedge
Otherwise why bother with anything not named Eris
Indeed, why indeed.
true fable
i dont think hades is unexplored
people have had to think about how to make that aspect go fast for the past 2 months
and it seems like the formula exists
its name is serrated point
tidal flame
I am curious if we will eventually find a glitch or something that allows for even faster run time
turbid bobcat
well not sure if it's a glitch exactly, but if you have dash nova and greatest reflexes, and spam special and dodge at the same time, you cover insane distances instantly
sly remnant
you mean outside of codex and asphodel fish?
stiff aurora
There could always be some very specific sequence of skills to bypass invulnerability or something
tidal flame
I heard of Codex, but what about Asphodel fish?
tidal flame
There could always be some very specific sequence of skills to bypass invulnerab...
Hydra skip used to exist I guess.
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/796921846251257887/unknown.png there is no god... 4-sack with THIS
stiff aurora
If you fish from the lava side, you take a shortcut right until after the hades fight
sly remnant
p sure that no longer works
but you can pause the timer by taking damage while fishing in asphodel and it will be paused until you take damage again
f retrash. sac rng 😦
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/796922525384179762/unknown.png this is how close I got
sly remnant
duuuuuuuuuuuuude
i've seen a lot of painful hades screenshots
that one might take the cake
honest kernel
^
This place is starting to get more and more cursed with moments like these
Also tomorrow, more grinding for bosses
north dove
divine dash is always a pom magnet in my high heat runs too :/
had a lvl 7 one 2 runs ago
rain sedge
those are some extremely good boons for AP2
north dove
ikr
rain sedge
luck balances out I guess /shrug
north dove
I even got chaos legendary
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/796937911811571752/unknown.png finally did it 😄
true fable
hadesprofessor has a super reliable method
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
true fable
congrats mr trash!
north dove
only stepped on 2 pots this time
true fable
but yeah foxhope check any of his vods and they should have it
the general idea is you dodge once through pillar and then back through it again
tidal flame
ok
true fable
nice anvil btw
true fable
which god did you force in aspho? i spot a 5 god pool
north dove
I was trying to get something for my special but this helped a bunch for clearing out EM4 spawns
I only forced in tart
I dunno what's up with that
tidal flame
but yeah foxhope check any of his vods and they should have it
Got it. The VODs in speedrun.com right?
true fable
athena, arty, ares and demeter
yes you are right
i saw an illusory 5th
did you take earring in aspho or was it spearpoint from then on
north dove
athena > earring > earring > spearpoint
although the spearpoint didn't really do much since I got holy shield soon after
true fable
i dont see the problem
tidal flame
fair ig
edgy arrow
you came prepared with shackle at least
edgy arrow
truth
true fable
hunter dash shackle is the current charon% meta
edgy arrow
oh lol i forgot charon% is a thing now
true fable
how could you
edgy arrow
i feel bad ngl
true fable
its the most prestigious category
true fable
edgy arrow
those times are way lower than any%
true fable
coincidence i swear
edgy arrow
fastest time = most prestigious
vagrant jewel
yo I'm new here, could you fill me in on what's the charon%
true fable
im still waiting to take the five fish WR when that extension gets approved
edgy arrow
also an australian guy is apparently winning which i approve of
true fable
yo I'm new here, could you fill me in on what's the charon%
its a new category extension on SRC where you try to beat charon as quickly as possible and earn the loyalty card
australian girl but ye
same idea
vagrant jewel
its a new category extension on SRC where you try to beat charon as quickly as p...
dope thanks : )
edgy arrow
do it
true fable
have you run the category before
the completion rate is like 1/20
everything else is a reset after 1 minute
edgy arrow
yeah kinda annoying that there’s no way to guarantee charon even appearing lol
maybe they could allow a mod that forces him in the first mid shop or something?
true fable
museus routed it
edgy arrow
wait so y’all are using a route?
oh no wait it’s unseeded
so i guess not
imma try this for the lols
haven’t fought charon in ages
main delta
vital grove
Do use Achilles or hestia for it? Or something else?
true fable
shackle hesty is the besty
vital grove
Shachilles pretty beast too try it
quartz mantle
https://imgur.com/DUMyDs4
how do you embed images in this channel?
tidal flame
:D
quartz mantle
Thanks for the tip
edgy arrow
okay that’s like 10 runs in a row with no tartarus charon fight lmao
i’m starting to see why there’s only 4 runs on the board
guess i’ll try shachilles to mix it up
vital grove
Charon incoming lol
true fable
shachilles isnt that good because im pretty sure the achilles buff + shackle buff are additive
edgy arrow
ah
sly remnant
grats @north dove !
edgy arrow
for hestia is it worth switching to fated authority, try to roll into some arty?
haven’t seen her once so far lol
north dove
55 heat dem fists vid is up in #self-promotion
north dove
Just did
north dove
hoping to get all aspects at 50+ eventually
rain sedge
Hadesprofessor is racing you
true fable
lol
@north dove i asked hadesprofessor about you on stream
and he said something along the lines of
i hate this guy every time i do 50 on an aspect he does 51
north dove
LOL
he's got a decent head start on me for all aspects 50 heat
so he's almost definitely going to do it first
shy gulch
LMAO
halcyon flame
turbid bobcat
Eminent Massacre 4
tidal flame
what about it?
onyx venture
The video has already been posted in #self-promotion by the author, it doesn't really need to be posted again here by someone else
tidal flame
But what if I want to see it twice
static plover
open up the og link twice 😉
tidal flame
hmm smart
edgy arrow
mega big brain pro strat: if you take damage from a chaos curse fast enough, you can proc the i-frames you get from taking too much damage at once
this works even if you’re on 1 hp
i’m a genius and have zero regrets
tidal flame
500 IQ move.
true fable
this is like taking the -45 HP or higher chaos curse in speedruns for the instant high confidence restoration
gaunt fiber
Can't lose it without your life at least
edgy arrow
tired: use touch of styx for 40% SD refill
wired: use touch of styx dark for 80% SD refill
inspired: have 1 max hp for 100% SD refill
gaunt fiber
The sweet damage sound
The fact that you can't die from it
I feel like I'm robbing Master Chaos
sly remnant
hell you can't even get onion'd off of it
edgy arrow
i was doing it with flurry jab and the curse on attack the other day
so many red flashes
i was kinda sad when the curse ended
dark summit
Best way to unlock 2nd skelly prize?
quartz mantle
Be a gamer
But in all seriousness there's a heat guideline someone wrote up in the pins
dark summit
Okay thanks
quartz mantle
It should help you decide which modifiers to use
dark summit
Do you need aspect of zagreus on stygius blade to get the prize?
gaunt fiber
Not at all
sly remnant
you can play whatever you want
sly remnant
^astaos is trolling to be clear
gaunt fiber
edgy arrow
i mean, i think astaos is correct
they said they wanted the "best" not the "easiest" way
edgy arrow
"best" 16 heat is clearly RI4 AP2 FO1 Guan Yu with thunder flourish
gaunt fiber
Lemme launch the game and I'm on it
sly remnant
isnt that like 20 heat
gaunt fiber
wait
dark summit
i saw the pinned message
so...which weapon would be good?
sorry, i'm still not very good at optimising builds
gaunt fiber
The one you're the most comfortable with
edgy arrow
yeah what you're comfortable with, or if in doubt just go eris
gaunt fiber
yeah if you just want to clear, eris will do it for you
I don't even know if Eris players actually use their kbm/controller? ...
edgy arrow
its one of the rail aspects
on what weapon?
if you go rail, you should use zeus on attack
quartz mantle
I wouldn't switch weapons just because someone tells you it's better
gaunt fiber
^
quartz mantle
Use whatever one you're more comfortable with
edgy arrow
yeah use spear if you want
dark summit
ah
im gunning for a full achievement clear on steam :X
okie! heat 16 is the last one
gaunt fiber
Do you remember our buddy RollingStone
gaunt fiber
I told him I would stream the 500th run
sly remnant
any...suggestions? 😇
we'll need to know aspect to give more specific advice
dark summit
okay
gaunt fiber
what kind of run are you gonna do for 500?
No idea lmao
sly remnant
luci ❤️
edgy arrow
lucy nice
sly remnant
the only rail i like
dark summit
:3
sly remnant
okay so Damage Control 2 is free on luci