math
#h1-high-heat-strategies
true fable
daring hedge
true though
mossy zinc
Nemesis feels like +5 Heat.
shy gulch
sword feels like +5 heat
daring hedge
nemesis can be relatively breezy at 32 with the right pact setup and boons, too
mossy zinc
That's true.
errant adder
would heartbreak flourish + targeting system result in 60% extra damage
or is it multiplicative?
mossy zinc
Neither.
Weak reduces damage you take, Targeting System increases damage enemies take.
sly remnant
The damage bonus is additive
lofty burrow
Yup
sly remnant
Most things outside of crit, chaos, and hammers are additive
tidal flame
God speed!
shy gulch
salute
mossy zinc
good luck!
gentle bridge
i think i need to play more 32 heat. 40 is just beating me down too hard rn
mossy zinc
Best way to practice 40 is to practice 40.
If you run into very bad chambers, you can back up the temp save and practice and figure out strategies.
Also watch other high heat players for specific problems you're having and how they deal with them.
gentle bridge
alrighty 
ill keep running after this coffee
mossy zinc
Also watching your own failed runs can be very insightful.
gentle bridge
oh yeah. i guess labbing it like i would a fighting game or moba does make sense
mossy zinc
32, right?
Do HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3 with Stubborn Defiance. Take Owl Pendant in Asphodel for Divine Dash and DDs.
Just gotta make sure you revive with your SD before picking up a boon from Lady Athena once you have a t1 boon from her in order to get a DD from Last Stand or Deathless Stand.
stiff vortex
yeah, i have athena dash and i got a dd back from her
yo i am gonna die
made it to asterius and theseus with 40 seconds left
mossy zinc
You can still do it with 0:00 on the clock if you have the DPS. Go go!
spring kettle
I know this is a niche question, but does anything happen if you have underworld customs on and you have no boons to sell?
gentle bridge
nothing. it wont stop you from moving up
spring kettle
I was thinking a boonless run but I guess there’s also boons you can’t sell in the first place
daring hedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/795182996600520724/20210103002712_1.jpg if it wasn't a 4sack 😔
honest kernel
Interesting
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/795182996600520724/202...
Flurry Jab would have probably been okay with a 5-sack.
daring hedge
yeah probably
serrated was my second hammer too
could've saved more time if it came first
mossy zinc
Difference between Flurry Jab and no Flurry Jab is silly.
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/795204124286386206/unknown.png I don't know how but this actually felt incredibly strong
mossy zinc
Nice! Congratulations!
true fable
jeez
shy gulch
yeah congrats
mossy zinc
Rupture does a whole lot of damage.
shy gulch
this is insane
north dove
I was trying to finish EM4 with full hp 
sword streak is almost impossible at 50
because of flurry slash
mossy zinc
"Almost."
north dove
well yes, if you get lucky anything is possible 😛
daring hedge
oh dang congrats!
i'd imagine numbing sensation on demand from dashes was actually really nice
north dove
I never notice numbing sensation, does it actually slow down attack animations?
daring hedge
yeah, works the same as chill/killing freeze
north dove
oh wow, that's good
shy gulch
yeah i like taking it when ic an
north dove
I usually passed it up because I thought it was just bad
mossy zinc
bablo said he thinks it only applies to movement speed, not attack animation.
daring hedge
oh, huh
daring hedge
yeah, i could've sworn it slowed them all around because of a couple high heat runs where the difference was indeed noticeable while it was high rarity/pommed
mossy zinc
Even just movement speed alone would be really good.
daring hedge
less useful for aggressive melee playstyles 
Numbing Sensation (Dionysus): this and other Slow effects now affect bosses (to a reduced extent)
this excerpt from some patch notes kind of implies it is in the same category of "Slow" as chill
otherwise i'd expect a distinction to be made here
killing freeze uses the same terminology
mossy zinc
Yeah, I'd think so, too.
Don't tell Schad that we think bablo is wrong. Schad's world will crumble. 
daring hedge
lol
it's possible the patch notes weren't really precise and bablo could be right
i honestly don't even know
vital grove
When playing AP1, do you prefer +epic or +duo?
daring hedge
god's pride for +epic personally
mossy zinc
But God's Legacy gives you a better chance for Unhealthy Fixation and unlocking the true ending. 
daring hedge
good point, the true ending is an unhealthy fixation on high heat
mossy zinc
north dove
posted my 52 heat poseidon and nemesis runs in #self-promotion
gaunt fiber
Tempest strike 
vital grove
He's just going to do 63 or 64 heat one day casually
gaunt fiber
4 EM4 in a row where bottom right is not safe from Cerberus
I could iframe 2 times only
And Dad appears right after, it's so hard
vital grove
Isn't it always safe? Huh
gaunt fiber
It's not unfortunately
thorny wing
High Heat sounds so fun. Think I might focus on one weapon just to get up faster instead of spreading runs out among weapons.
thorny wing
Out of curiosity, what are everyones favored weapons/aspects?
tacit dragon
I like Eternal Spear base form, I think its aspects are rather useless
shy gulch
currently im a hestia gamer
gaunt fiber
I like Eternal Spear base form, I think its aspects are rather useless
lmao
gaunt fiber
Out of curiosity, what are everyones favored weapons/aspects?
Favorite aspect is Guan Yu, the best spear aspect.
thorny wing
Thats my fave spear aspect too. But I like all of the weapons so hard to pick an overall fave
gaunt fiber
Bablo you know I'm right
gaunt fiber
Thats my fave spear aspect too. But I like all of the weapons so hard to pick an...
It's fine, it was the same until I wondered which one I liked more gameplay wise. I think you should pick one and grind high heat with it first. Then you will learn in the best conditions
Don't hesitate to play different aspects tho
gaunt fiber
Then maybe you don't know them well enough
thorny wing
Possibly, but I always have trouble picking a fave in stuff
thorny wing
Lol
gaunt fiber
At some point some aspects struggle more than others Xaanth
thorny wing
Yup. Love beowulf. That boom after a dragon rush is so satisfying
Figured as much. How’s Excalibur at high heat? It’s sluggishness seems like it would be dangerous to use
thorny wing
It’s not my fave but it’s fun to see massive damage numbers when you crit
true fable
retrash/tailesque/hadesprofessor have all done it on 48+ heat
i believe
its very fun but yeah the startup and endlag on many moves makes it super dangerous
mossy zinc
i like beowulf
That's your own fault.
mossy zinc
thorny wing
I might go Rama/Hera or Beowulf or heck, maybe I’ll go crazy and do Excalibur.
thorny wing
The problem is Theyre all fun
true fable
though we havent had a dedicated hera player i dont think
mossy zinc
Rama is the strongest out of those.
thorny wing
Its so good
gaunt fiber
Looks like GY gang is not gonna grow today
mossy zinc
If you like playing different aspects, just play whatever you like to play at the time.
thorny wing
I’ll prob high heat bow since I like the most aspects off bow
shy gulch
bow is a pretty good weapon for high heat
mossy zinc
No need to force yourself to play only one aspect, that's just what a lot of high-heat players end up doing at first because they don't feel as confident with the others or it's just the most fun for them.
true fable
the GY gang is a healthy size
thorny wing
Awesome. I can just change up aspects every run for variety
true fable
proportional to its health pool
shy gulch
lmao
gaunt fiber
Indeed
shy gulch
but yeah just do whatever ur feelin that day
gaunt fiber
Joke stealer
shy gulch
I felt like doing hestia one day for no particular reason and here I am, 100 runs later
thorny wing
I play all of the weapons but its gonna take me forever to hit high heat by keeping them all even so I kinda wanna focus on one to get to high heat quicker
true fable
astaos has a similar story about hestia i imagine
mossy zinc
bablo never played just one aspect at high heat. He just plays everything.
shy gulch
man I swear hestia is such a crutch
gaunt fiber
I was just like let's try Hestia
gaunt fiber
and it's easy
true fable
I play all of the weapons but its gonna take me forever to hit high heat by keep...
the heat is a number
thorny wing
I’ll play them all there eventually. Just gonna take time
true fable
if you like learning all the different weapons just play them
that's what i did
then i fell down the beowulf rabbit hole for about 300 hours
thorny wing
I use whatever has the darkness gain buff
mossy zinc
Wobbles plays everything, too.
gaunt fiber
It's just about how you want to use your time
true fable
so do retrash and hadesprofessor
though retrash has spent a lot of time studying the blade
shy gulch
lol
mossy zinc
I play all of the weapons but its gonna take me forever to hit high heat by keep...
You can play them evenly, doesn't mean you have to play them on the same heat
true fable
^
thorny wing
Yeah. Thats how ive been doing em.
true fable
first i wanted to do 32 on all weapons
then 32 on all aspects
then same thing for 40
true fable
i think i'll try the same thing at 45 but i really need a bit more courage for 45 GY
no seeding
gaunt fiber
i think i'll try the same thing at 45 but i really need a bit more courage for 4...
aim for 50 directly
shy gulch
like GY
true fable
40 in general, for all weaps, or all aspects
i didnt reset hammers
i dont remember what my GY hammers were
gaunt fiber
it was skewer
shy gulch
like I can’t imagine doing zag spear or GY without good hammers
gaunt fiber
you know it
true fable
i think it mightve been charged skewer massive spin but tbh i just got carried by killing freeze
gaunt fiber
we both know it
shy gulch
lmao
true fable
i think i had dem attack and special
shy gulch
based
true fable
it was nonsense
gaunt fiber
like I can’t imagine doing zag spear or GY without good hammers
40 is still fine with clunky hammers for GY
true fable
dem attack, special, arctic blast, and killing freeze
shy gulch
zag sword kek
shy gulch
bro I took like 3 tries for zag sword at 32
true fable
and you can just start owl pendant and go where the roads take you
croven someday you will have a mouse and wonder why you didnt have one in the first place
shy gulch
some day far in the future
mossy zinc
Guan Yu punishes you pretty badly for not devoting more time to Guan Yu.
gaunt fiber
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
true fable
yeah i believe that
gaunt fiber
@true fable Also your signature move is much more dangerous with GY
shy gulch
lol
mossy zinc
Kind of like a Queen or Goddess who demands your undivided attention.
Right, @gaunt fiber?
true fable
hmm
true fable
<@!461369378315960330> Also your signature move is much more dangerous with GY
cannot imagine what that move would be
gaunt fiber
I'm sure you know
mossy zinc
What's his signature move as a coward? Running away?
mossy zinc
Isn't that what you do?
true fable
oof
true fable
looks like you hold the copyright
I do wonder what % of my runs above 32 heat end to trap deaths
its probably somewhere in the high 40s
mossy zinc
You haven't stopped when I watch.
gaunt fiber
You never watch
true fable
or sorry i should rephrase, the % of SDs i lose
gaunt fiber
So you're stuck in the distant past
mossy zinc
At least not when you know I watch. 
gaunt fiber
Have not been streaming in a while tho
mossy zinc
Probably for the better.
gaunt fiber
At least not when you know I watch. <:zfiestAngry:783998969419792416>
I'd notice you
mossy zinc
You should just name your stream "Shared Suffering" since that's what you're sharing on your stream.
mossy zinc
honest kernel
👀
daring hedge
I like Eternal Spear base form, I think its aspects are rather useless
Excuse me what
gaunt fiber
He has not tried everything yet
tacit dragon
Yeah, I havent invested much in the other weps
daring hedge
I see
Yeah, the spear aspects are very underwhelming without blood invested into them
solemn pulsar
I feel like the base form is underwhelming even with blood invested into it
daring hedge
Yep it's pretty bad
gaunt fiber
Yeah the special is weak yet it's the buffed part
daring hedge
And not even by much either
25% is almost nothing in terms of extra damage, and the range/speed is barely noticeable or enough to make it feel worth it most of the time unless you get exploding launcher
gaunt fiber
Yeah why is it not flat
solemn pulsar
Zag shield is base damage I have no idea why zag spear isn’t
gaunt fiber
Yup
solemn pulsar
Like that plus Artemis special plus exploding launcher would be pretty good
gaunt fiber
But flat special increase is GY already
daring hedge
Lol
gaunt fiber
I mean I can see why they tried to buff special in a different way
solemn pulsar
It’s still too slow for the range and low damage buff to do anything
gaunt fiber
Don't lol at me 
true fable
Excuse me what
another golden message in this channel
ok i dont think 6 am is a rational time
gaunt fiber
Oof
true fable
this is what happens when you play 4 hours of poseidon
anyheat
with mom blossom start
my brain is literal water
daring hedge
Pain
gaunt fiber
Sleep 7 hours then stream again
daring hedge
The 25% extra range on zag spear is really funny honestly
true fable
why is mom blossom start good
daring hedge
Distant memory and zag spear build incoming
true fable
oh its such a useless buff
if you could reroll hammers
i could see zag spear having some niche charged skewer + explosive launcher utility
but even then i guess hades is better at that
gaunt fiber
Distant memory and zag spear build incoming
I tried distant memory Rama for you
daring hedge
Yeah, zag spear launcher builds just feel like wet tissue paper versions of hades aspect
true fable
tailesque will you be joining me and maglev in the wonderful category of charon%
shackle rama is quite good in it
daring hedge
I tried distant memory Rama for you
Were you promptly disappointed with the results
gaunt fiber
Exactly
true fable
?
daring hedge
tailesque will you be joining me and maglev in the wonderful category of charon%
I didn't know this was a category but yes absolutely
true fable
it is an RTA category
daring hedge
Is it just keep running tartarus until moneybag spawns
daring hedge
God
true fable
22% chance afaik
gaunt fiber
it is an RTA category
Loading time rip
daring hedge
Better chances than grinding for AP2 greatest reflex
true fable
Better chances than grinding for AP2 greatest reflex
see
all the more reason to run it
better chance to get it
and im not 100% but i think getting charon% WR will get you more clout than 62 heat
daring hedge
Lmao
rain sedge
imma run into charon shop at tartarus just for the achievement at 40 heat
wish me luck
I really hope it doesn't take that long.. I'm on TD3
ooookay that was ill advised
cloud monolith
okay i just tried extrem measures 3 for the first time. How are you gonna do this with a time limit?? They have so much health and you need to kite for so long to not get run over
ripe crane
Asterius has the same amount of health, Theseus only has 3k more
gentle bridge
i've finally got one! first 40 heat win
https://imgur.com/a/39eB7DI
gaunt fiber
Congrats
thorny wing
Grats
gentle bridge
@mossy zinc was right. I just labbed it out. Noticed i've been dash-striking too much instead of just dashing.
gentle bridge
uh oh
gaunt fiber
"m always right 
"
gentle bridge
i wished i recorded it, but i think i have reverse streamer/content creator luck
all my good runs are offcam
gaunt fiber
all my good runs are offcam
classic
gentle bridge
last time i streamed/recorded, i kept dying in tartarus for an hour. titled me off the face of the earth
sly remnant
I'm late to the conversation but I want to encourage whoever was stressing over aspects to just play what you like. Dont worry about achieving "arbitrary heat number" on "meta aspect". If you enjoy an aspect that happens to be meta that's great and you'll be able to push arbitrary heat number higher. But don't treat numbers as achievements. Treat high heat as a way to learn more about aspects by pushing them to the extreme.
gaunt fiber
#inspirational-quotes
sly remnant
Not all 32 heats, 40 heats, 45 heats, etc are created equally. Just use them as opportunities to learn about an aspect you like.
rain sedge
or, be so good at an aspect/build, it becomes meta
the retrash way
or the baj shield thing
gentle bridge
finally found a nice groove with hestia, will try to get another dub with it (and hopefully on video)
hearty dome
i had a very good build with GY 44 heat EM3 TD3, had plenty of time but died to hades because i got nervous after i lost my SD 
it would have been my first 40+ clear
rip
gentle bridge
dang. the fact the its GY also, mad respect. just looking at my health in GY makes me nervous
gaunt fiber
Yeah getting nervous is the worst thing since you die quickly
vital grove
Yeah just don't get hit, if you don't get hit your hp doesn't matter. /masterclass advice
Hey astaos you're the resident expert, what do you run on GY?
Artemis or Aphro special I guess?
gaunt fiber
Both are good yeah
Any % special is good with charged skewer
But Deadly flourish scales very well with this hammer
hearty dome
GY is my favorite spear aspect because of the special since you can almost play close range weapon the same way as bow
others aspects special feels too slow for me
ripe crane
Hey astaos you're the resident expert, what do you run on GY?
Delete this before nyaa sees it
plain shuttle
what would be a solid first time 16 heat composition?
will be running Hestia or Hera
warm osprey
Just do whatever u think will be easy
If u wanna clear it easy do EM3, 7 minute time limit and ugh maybe pack size
plain shuttle
I'm thinking LC1, CF1, EM3, either BP or MM, DC1 and TD2
gaunt fiber
Delete this before nyaa sees it
Hey I deserve some credit too
ripe crane
I'm just jokin'
rain sedge
I'm thinking LC1, CF1, EM3, either BP or MM, DC1 and TD2
EM3 TD3 MM BP would do it
I would not take LC or CF for the "easiest" run, and DC is a pain for both of those weapon
I didnt even run it for 32
crepes dont even run DC on... 56?
sly remnant
p sure dc isn't correct on hestia until like 58 or 60
ripe crane
60 you have DC0 RI3, everything else on
ripe crane
Is RI4 really harder than DC2?
plain shuttle
OK I'll take both MM and BP instead of DC
gaunt fiber
Pretty sure you'll die to timer first
rain sedge
who's racing for AGDQ? the first game has started
gaunt fiber
Vorime
rain sedge
it's not a race?
gaunt fiber
3 weaps
rain sedge
I thought the original idea was to do a 2 people race
gaunt fiber
Yeah I heard that at some point but I don't know if this was even a thing
gentle bridge
oh, so it was supposed to be 3 weaps race?
plain shuttle
hades run is on early morning for me so probably will miss it rip
gentle bridge
(btw watching agdq rn and mirrors edge runs are always lit af)
rain sedge
ngl non-race 3 weapons at any heat is way less hype than race
gaunt fiber
Estimated is 65 just in case the runs are cursed
sly remnant
easier to timebox tho
rain sedge
triple 5 sac
I hope vorime gets that, and amir + SGG team is watching, and it finally got changed
gentle bridge
probably self commentated then, tho i would think someone would wanna jump in on that
maybe its amir
rain sedge
then I really hope he gets triple 5 sacced
rain sedge
would you get triple 5 sacced in front of idk, 100k viewers, to rework the mechanic?
sly remnant
i believe haelian and wriste and one other are commentating
rain sedge
cool
sly remnant
ello?
gentle bridge
i believe haelian and wriste and one other are commentating
oh nice
i thnk im going blind. i cant see hades on agdq 2021 sched
sly remnant
iirc hades has the been most popular speedrun game on speedrun.com for a bit
rain sedge
I feel like the game itself is really popular but somehow the twitch stream is always empty
sly remnant
the game is honestly not a great viewer game
gaunt fiber
I'll make a donation to tell the world Guan Yu is the best aspect
rain sedge
you have to donate a lot to get it read, no?
gaunt fiber
The cost matters not
sly remnant
i'll probably make a beo donation to get read
gentle bridge
I feel like the game itself is really popular but somehow the twitch stream is a...
1k total viewers isnt so bad for a roguelike i think
gaunt fiber
So we are rivals
gentle bridge
although theres that big 10k viewer spike when max dood plays
sly remnant
yea except my aspect might actually be in the run
sly remnant
proportional to health pool?
gaunt fiber
lmao
rain sedge
if I could get the eris heat record before the run
I can make a flex donation during the run
and we know my aspect is for sure there
sweet leaf
I just unlocked the heat mechanic (beat it for the first time after 44 runs urhg) and am wondering: if I take 2 a run with two heat on a particular weapon, do i get 2 Titan’s Blood (under the assumption that I have not done 1 heat on that particular weapon)
or do I have to gradually increase the heat as in first 1 then 2 then three so I get all the rewards for all the bosses
rain sedge
no, you can't get multiple bounties
if by that you mean "if I run 20 heat can I get 20 titan blood at once" then no
but you don't have to go from 1 to 2 to 3, basically bounties are earned with the minimum heat. So if you run 20 or 2 heat, you get the same bounty. That's it
main pelican
is there some guide for how to push past 32 heat? my best run is 36 with chiron and i can't seem to get any higher than that
north dove
Are you running lasting consequences 4 with SDs? It's pretty much the optimal way to push higher heats
main pelican
oh ive just been running DD
tame mist
best build for em4
rain sedge
whoa, I got RUINED at dad at 40 heat hestia
gaunt fiber
No best build only hard practice
mossy zinc
Delete this before nyaa sees it
Hmm?
turbid bobcat
divine dash is simply divine
tame mist
divine dash is simply divine
isnt poseidon dash better?
turbid bobcat
damage wise yes
north dove
oh ive just been running DD
Maybe post your pact setup here, I'm sure people here wouldn't mind recommending some changes
main pelican
at what heat level do u start running em4? i didnt run it yet
mossy zinc
@vital grove who's the resident Guan Yu expert?
tame mist
guan yu is a bad aspect
north dove
Barely anyone aside from me runs EM4 even at 50+
main pelican
oh ok
mossy zinc
Guan Yu is great.
solemn pulsar
solemn pulsar
yeah 16 heat isn't much of a change from normal
main pelican
can someone post their 40 heat pact setup or smth
rain sedge
it's basically 10 heat since TD3 is free
plain shuttle
I run TD2, 3 is a bit tight for me
rain sedge
@main pelican you have to specify your weapon for this kinda help
main pelican
for bow/rail
rain sedge
what aspects? they vary wildly
solemn pulsar
can someone post their 40 heat pact setup or smth
my base for 40 heat is HL5, LC4, EM3, BP2, MM, UC, FO2, HS, TD3, which gets you to 37. you can then pick and choose 3 heat that fits your weapon best
for eris/lucifer rail aspects you can add DC pretty easily
main pelican
sorry, chiron or eris
mossy zinc
I would put TD2 as base for consistency and TD3 as option.
warm osprey
Em4 is crazy spike in difficulty cuz it puts all the difficulty at the end, but you’ll get more runs there overall @main pelican
solemn pulsar
yeah it depends on how fast you're clearing on average, good point @mossy zinc
I never have timer issues at 40 heat, but I play super aggressively and die in rooms/bosses a lot
mossy zinc
TD3 5-sack is bad.
solemn pulsar
it's so unlikely though, not worth planning around
mossy zinc
TD2 5-sack is very doable.
solemn pulsar
unless you're streaking like bablo
mossy zinc
Yeah I would just go for speedruns at 40 anyway probably.
main pelican
my base for 40 heat is HL5, LC4, EM3, BP2, MM, UC, FO2, HS, TD3, which gets you ...
HL5 and FO2 sounds really hard lmao
rain sedge
we're talking about heat levels where the game doesn't even expect you to do it
it's meant to be hard
gaunt fiber
I have a nice 40 setup
rain sedge
although I run with lower HL and higher JS since I'm bad at dodging
mossy zinc
I have a nice 40 setup
Yeah, you should post it.
gaunt fiber
NICE
rain sedge
dont do it man
gaunt fiber
rain sedge
MAN
solemn pulsar
^ do not do this ^
main pelican
LMAO
solemn pulsar
^ unless you hate your mirror ^&
solemn pulsar
and yourself
mossy zinc
Y'all so scared of RI4.
rain sedge
ya but I did it on eris
mossy zinc
Smh.
gaunt fiber
4 hp btw
rain sedge
the hating yourself is implied when you picked GY
solemn pulsar
HL5 and FO2 sounds really hard lmao
if you find things you like elsewhere you can take off HL points. FO2 is 3 whole heat though, really tough to find it elsewhere without taking AP or RI or a lot of JS/CP that makes the timer hard
sly remnant
RI4 is fine for some weapons
main pelican
One RI doesn’t sound too bad? Idk how much those last couple matter
sly remnant
one RI is literally the "just get roll it anyways" pact. its a stupid pact
mossy zinc
Guan Yu is for players who think 4 HP is enough.
north dove
RI is the worst thing to turn on
rain sedge
Those play Eris.
this is definitely a thinking emoji
solemn pulsar
if 4 HP is enough then why does your spin attack heal you
gaunt fiber
4 hp means you're alive
rain sedge
the first point in RI lose you dark foresight. that's why it matters so much
main pelican
I see
sly remnant
right but the thing with RI1 is
solemn pulsar
yeah losing tons of poms/hearts/coins is not worth it really
sly remnant
just roll the rooms anyways
solemn pulsar
roll with what
mossy zinc
if 4 HP is enough then why does your spin attack heal you
Why doesn't yours?
sly remnant
its a dumb pact
sly remnant
roll with what
all it does increase your chance. the chance is still there
gaunt fiber
if 4 HP is enough then why does your spin attack heal you
Because devs felt like 50% loss needed to be balanced with some healing. It's not really necessary
mossy zinc
RI is fine.
rain sedge
hang on lemme find it
solemn pulsar
all it does increase your chance. the chance is still there
right but because there's so many rooms it averages out to make it worse over time
gaunt fiber
Although it's probably the other way around
main pelican
So is SD the move at 40 heat
gaunt fiber
yeah
solemn pulsar
it's not like a lower duo chance or something
rain sedge
the chance is dynamic based on which gold room you already get
so you can't get like, 4 gold room in a row
basically
sly remnant
i'm aware of that
rain sedge
so RI matters a lot more when it's pseudoRNG like that
solemn pulsar
it's not like AP or rolling Duo chances, it's reducing your build quality over time without directly screwing you over
sly remnant
"justt roll it anyways"
rain sedge
I'm saying you can't just roll the poms at any given situation, you lose the ability to just roll for a gold room
main pelican
Wait but doesn’t the first RI take away ur rolls anyways? Am I missing something
sly remnant
yea exactly
solemn pulsar
he means just luck for when he says "rolls" in this case
main pelican
Ah
solemn pulsar
i mean everything in the pact can be reduced to a consistency drop except like EM, TD, BP, UC
gaunt fiber
So it's fine
sly remnant
i mean everything in the pact can be reduced to a consistency drop except like E...
you are gonna tell me hard labor, lasting consequences, jury summons, and damage control are consistency drops?
mossy zinc
You guys realize we were doing 40+ before Dark Foresight even worked at all?
solemn pulsar
you are gonna tell me hard labor, lasting consequences, jury summons, and damage...
if you can kill a room of enemies without getting hit 80% of the time, then each wave is technically a random roll on whether or not you take damage. More waves/more damage drops your chance to clear the wave without damage
so technically yeah
anything that just increases or decreases a number instead of actually changing the gameplay itself is affecting that chance of clearing
sly remnant
if you can kill a room of enemies without getting hit 80% of the time, then each...
thats a much bigger stretch on dropping consistency then literally a pact that is almost completely about reducing your luck
gaunt fiber
One day I told someone in #h1-builds-and-combat that Dark Foresight was incredibly powerful. But they did not agree so I got a "No."
that was the end of the discussion unfortunately
solemn pulsar
you run mirrorless all the time, i guess you agreed with them 🙂
rain sedge
One day I told someone in <#520688402958516254> that Dark Foresight was incredib...
imagine typing in other channels in this discord
gaunt fiber
#h1-builds-and-combat raised me
solemn pulsar
thats a much bigger stretch on dropping consistency then literally a pact that i...
yeah i'm just being a semantic jerk sorry lmao
gaunt fiber
Mainly because Nyaanyaa was here tho
rain sedge
it's wild out there man, I have yet to see a non-MOBA with worse Dunning-Kruger than this one
main pelican
I didn’t start using dark foresight until recently because I still needed to get nectar and stuff
solemn pulsar
fun fact dunning kruger might not exist
gaunt fiber
really?
solemn pulsar
yeah I mean most psych principles are hazy at best
sly remnant
I didn’t start using dark foresight until recently because I still needed to get...
legitimately my plan for my hell mode save file
rain sedge
also, do you think alecto knows that everyone hates her, or does she not care?
mossy zinc
I like Alecto.
solemn pulsar
and DK is another one where the people that posited it kinda went back on it
sly remnant
i hate alecto
solemn pulsar
and said "maybe knowing about dunning kruger makes you feel above it, and that makes you careless and incompetent, even though the original thing doesn't quite exist"
basically psychology is RNG
gaunt fiber
Damn I've always thought I was skillfull because I thought I was not.
main pelican
it's wild out there man, I have yet to see a non-MOBA with worse Dunning-Kruger ...
I feel like any game with some builds or paths better than others will have that effect
solemn pulsar
Damn I've always thought I was skillfull because I thought I was not.
yeah that basically sums it up
gaunt fiber
ikr
rain sedge
I like Alecto.
bet
main pelican
I cleared 20 heat easily and 40 is just 2x that so should also be 2x as hard right
gaunt fiber
it's not linear unfortunately
main pelican
Ikik
gaunt fiber
I would say it's 36 times harder
solemn pulsar
it also varies a lot per weapon
sly remnant
yea heat being linear is the biggest misconception
solemn pulsar
eris is pretty easy as far as 40 heat clears go
main pelican
Forgot to add a /s 😔
solemn pulsar
lol u good
gaunt fiber
I understood dw
rain sedge
why are we bashing my weapon for no reason
gaunt fiber
I have the/s problem a lot too
gaunt fiber
why are we bashing my weapon for no reason
Are you kidding me?
You think Eris is bashed
lmao
We're just saying it's really strong 
rain sedge
im so bad at power couple
solemn pulsar
the reason is that it looks like teeth and that's weird
sly remnant
first hell mode run of the day
doomstone appears
summon
summon
summon
wait why i----oh
mossy zinc
"Very casual player gets carried to 50 Heat by Eris"
Real headline I read somewhere sometime.
rain sedge
#hades-bullying-channel
solemn pulsar
that's why i don't play Eris on 50 heat so I can't be ridiculed
is hestia easy also? idk probably
rain sedge
I just got ruined by dad at 40 hestia so no
didnt even go to phase 2
I think I got used to divine dash crutch so much
mossy zinc
You thought Eris was being bullied.
gaunt fiber
I cleared hestia 40+ with very little practice so it must be kind of easy
mossy zinc
The real bully victims were the friends we made along the way.
main pelican
is there a recommended build for high heat chiron? i usually just run dio + aphro
north dove
I think heart rend is better for high heat
mossy zinc
Eternal Rose start for Heartbreak Strike into Deadly Flourish or Drunken Flourish are both very effective.
main pelican
oh i see, i liked the dio + aphro since u can get privledged easily
mossy zinc
Can go with an Epic Heartbreak Flourish, too.
Basically, Eternal Rose gives you options, and you just take it from there.
main pelican
do you go a second god keepsake or not?
solemn pulsar
getting heart rend with Family favorites is way more powerful than PS with drunken
main pelican
and just hope u get one of the two
mossy zinc
Depends on what you get in Tartarus.
main pelican
if u got something in tarturus what keepsake do u usually go after?
sorry for all the questions lol
mossy zinc
Owl Pendant for Dash and DDs, Conch Shell for Dash, Skull Earring for DPS, Coin Purse for cash, and maybe Acorn if melee (especially on Guan Yu).
For Asphodel.
If you don't want another god for your build or better tier 3 chance.
main pelican
thanks!
https://imgur.com/a/1HvlI7c
this is the heat im currently running? ig to hit 40 i would go TD3? anything i should change
sly remnant
i don't love DC2 on chiron
main pelican
doesnt the special give u 8 hits tho?
mossy zinc
But your Attack before your Special will do no damage.
main pelican
so then would i bump up JS instead?
sly remnant
i'd do CP actually
mossy zinc
I'd take CP1 HS, yeah.
main pelican
alright thanks
urban coyote
it gives +10% leg, +15% epic, and +20% rare (but the rare one is defined differently, not sure if it stacks differently)
mossy zinc
Thanks!
urban coyote
nope but you better believe I will be supporting my boy vor
my brand of Hades nerd science is probably a bit deep for couch commentary lol
I believe It will be Haelian, Wriste, Jerds
solemn pulsar
ello during heroes fight: still discussing all the different bouldy boons you can get
gaunt fiber
"So yeah, ambiguity is our best odd. Oh, Hades is down. Nice."
solemn pulsar
then vorime gets a cutscene before the second run so all of tartarus is explaining those mechanics
rain sedge
just me, or do people also find the wringers to be the hardest enemies in tartarus?
I consistently get hit by them
gaunt fiber
BP witches harder
rain sedge
if we ignore BP
gaunt fiber
Wringers are passive and you get bait their attacks
dire steppe
it gives +10% leg, +15% epic, and +20% rare (but the rare one is defined differe...
then WTF does “+40% chance to be rare or better” mean
rain sedge
if you look at the code, the + X % bonus from chaos only applies to the rare
the + bonus to legendary and epic is fixed
rain sedge
oh I misunderstood, I thought you're talking about the boon
dire steppe
i had gods legacy, chaos favor, and egg, so that should be 1%+10%+10%+egg%
And nectar/yarn but Idk how those affect it
gaunt fiber
Refreshing
rain sedge
huh?
turbid bobcat
refreshing nectar from Eurydice
rain sedge
oh yea
turbid bobcat
But does it increase a heroic boon to legendary? I wouldn't assume so
rain sedge
that one is 10% I think
turbid bobcat
since they're different
rain sedge
wait lemme check
dire steppe
If you have both it only consumes one
rain sedge
guess it's the same then
rain sedge
that'd give you... 12+10+10 chance to get a legendary
dire steppe
gods legacy btw
rain sedge
32% per roll, 42% if it's a chaos roll
ah I missed that, that's... 42% non-chaos boon, 52% chaos boon
so given a roll of 3 boons, and since you've filled core boons
dire steppe
i got 3 chaos boons, rerolled the second one twice and didn’t have rerolls for the third
also didn’t have yarn for second
rain sedge
80% chance of getting a legendary boon from normal
dire steppe
so 9 attempts of 42 and 3 of 52
dire steppe
so if those probabilities work out correctly i had a 99.917% chance of getting it
lol
warm osprey
Well of charon keepsake is fun to use
warm osprey
Idk how good it would be higher heat tho
rain sedge
greater recall is at 1% legendary chance base
dire steppe
oh i know about that
rain sedge
yea idk man, it's really weird
dire steppe
i just haven’t gone for it yet
dire steppe
i mean 1 in 1000 isnt unbelievable
rain sedge
or something like that, I forgot how many I missed in the row by the end
dire steppe
it happens... but why must it happen to me
twilit dragon
he strong
true fable
<@!461369378315960330> resident speedrunner got info?
hael jerds and wriste
tidal flame
Did the AGDQ runs happen already?
main pelican
argh i keep dying to TD3 in elesium
sly remnant
don't we all
tacit dragon
TD3 ?
tacit dragon
what happens if I reach the limit
gaunt fiber
You will lose 5 hp/s
tacit dragon
how the hecc am I gonna do 5 min per biome
sly remnant
taking free rooms (chaos, npc, shop, etc.) every chance you get and some enemy luck
sly remnant
at higher and higher heat weapons have to be much more concerned with AoE damage or take TD2. JS3 and CP2 force aspects to get optimized or get shunted to taking TD2
hestia is the biggest outlier in that it doesn't have aoe or build it really outside of splash dash maybe
ripe crane
Hazard bomb be like
gentle bridge
hestia is the biggest outlier in that it doesn't have aoe or build it really out...
yeah, and that's why i think ricochet is a god send in my hestia runs
sly remnant
right. hestia has to find aoe in unique ways
solemn pulsar
Piercing can be good if you can line up enemies
Also helps a ton with greatshields
sly remnant
piercing on hestia is probably the highest skill cap hammer in the game
shy gulch
piercing is very good as well yeah
solemn pulsar
Yeah it’s basically DIY ricochet
I’ve only ever made really good use of it in Tartarus
shy gulch
at that point you basically play hestia like ppl play zag bow
solemn pulsar
Where things are calm
gentle bridge
it is. weirdly i get some use from it on elysium, since the soldiers tend to line up when chasing you
shy gulch
piercing is just so nice for not having to worry about shield bros
gentle bridge
yeah. my only prob is when ricohest and pierce show up in the same hammers. im not sure if taking ricochet > piercing is the right play
vernal hatch
ricochet has to be more consistent, even if piercing technically has higher potential for returns
if youre a god gamer piercing
mossy zinc
Lining up shots with Piercing Fire is not that difficult. 
sly remnant
Lining up shots with Piercing Fire is not that difficult. <:thanthink:6692460041...
its floor is low but its ceiling is high
mossy zinc
sly remnant
why is that a than think?
tidal flame
that is a
sly remnant
^i'm with foxhope
mossy zinc
It could have been a zaglol, I guess.
sly remnant
knowing when to take a shot immediately or setting something up takes knowledge and skill
obviously any idiot can draw a line between two points
gaunt fiber
looks like you're describing charged skewer here
sly remnant
but getting more value out if it than that is where the skill ceiling shows itself
for instance: forcing AI positioning and waiting instead of immediately taking the shot
but sure
if you want to make piercing "draw a line between two points lol" then yea you can than think it
dire steppe
drawing a line between two points is hard tbh
dire steppe
like with chiron too
are you supposed to mark something in the back so you can hit enemies in between
sly remnant
exactly. and knowing when to go out of your way to perform that action and when its unnecessary is where the skill ceiling really shows itself
esp because that decision will differ based on enemy, boons, other hammers, Benefits Package modifiers, etc.
true fable
tbf piercing does give a lot of immediate value
armor strip on a weapon where youre probably running crit
and also shooting through shields
pretty big
true fable
i would argue it has a high floor and high ceiling
whereas ricochet has a high floor low ceiling IMO
sly remnant
the floor is above most hammers in terms of getting value i agree
yea ricochet is a weird one
sly remnant
as far as i know beyond making sure to keep enemies in groups with kiting patterns and spawn control its relatively the same
which most weapons are going to want to do anyways
true fable
yeah just seems like zeus cast where you just yeet it and hope for the best in terms of AI bounces
sly remnant
chain shot same idea
sly remnant
i mean most weapons are relatively simple
that doesn't mean the ceiling isn't there and unexplored
true fable
tbf i dont think a lot when i play beo anymore but that doesnt mean its a simple weapon
youve played a ton of hestia croven
sly remnant
much of the practice of aspects is making a lot of decision making automatic so you can focus on other things
true fable
true
wrong chat lmao
i mean a lot of it is small optimizations
like knowing you dont need to attack witches with eris and can just empowered special them
sly remnant
or when you do and don't need a power shot
halcyon flame
if i have 2 heat and i haven't gotten the bounties for 1 heat, do i get 1-heat bounties for the first run and then 2-heat bounties for the run after?
true fable
yeah
vital grove
Zag bow is great
It kinda is like a Hestia that you don't reload but the special is terrible
halcyon flame
how much time does tight deadline 1 actually give you in order to beat the game?
halcyon flame
so i should be able to do that if i decide to use lambent plume
pine tide
even on a bad run I've never taken longer than 9 minutes per biome
vital grove
If you're aiming to use lambent Plume you need to go faster than td1
halcyon flame
usually my runs are around 40 minutes but with the plume somehow i got it down to 31 
halcyon flame
to be fair i haven't even gotten plume to 3 stars
i've only used it in one run so far but it's already one of my favourites
pine tide
I can rarely stack the plume higher than 18 but it's very very good
vital grove
I think Plume runs at like TD 2.5
onyx venture
When taking Tight Deadline you should keep in mind what is costing you time - try pausing the game while making decisions on room/shop selections, for example
pine tide
very good especially with other sources of dodge like the mirror upgrade for your dash
dodge chance is the opposite of diminishing returns all the way up until you're capped
halcyon flame
i got 56.3% dodge chance on my first run with the plume so i'll definitely use it even outside of td
vital grove
It's pretty good with Zag fists
vernal hatch
dodge works in a weird way doesn't it?
halcyon flame
it just makes it so that when you get hit there's a chance that you don't actually get hit
what's so weird about it
vernal hatch
i remember getting 30 from plume, 20 from hermes, and having the mirror aspect, but still getting hit when it was active (i might be misremembering)
vital grove
I don't think you can dodge every single thing, like lasers
vernal hatch
dodge says "nullifies an instance of damage, seems like you should
true fable
dodge can get to 100%
vital grove
The mirror talent is only like 2 seconds duration after you narrow dodge
true fable
why
vital grove
I think you can do fists, Plume, both dodge boons from hermes and be at 100%
Helps to have something to charge call faster
true fable
interesting
sly remnant
also just good to practice with one dash anyways
vital grove
One dash against Fo2 enemies 😢
vernal hatch
also just good to practice with one dash anyways
its something you really notice when you dont have it 
vital grove
I mean if you want to push max heat then yeah you have to play with 1 dash
sly remnant
i mean if i'm grinding my own hell mode file i might as well try to learn while i do it
wuill be using high confidence exclusively when i unlock that part of the mirror too
mossy zinc
Reviving on magma on RI4.
vital grove
Anyone how much damage you take
Standing in consecration, with aphro and broken resolve common level 1, myrmidon Bracer from the front
HL0
gentle bridge
damn. hadesprof just posted a sub 15 hestia on 50 heat
daring hedge
oh nice, i know he's been working on that for a while
true fable
and he already had a better time on 51 heat
gentle bridge
also, im dumb. how do you get your cursor to be red?
i find it nuts that its on JS2 as well
gentle bridge
oh..
gusty kite
how does explosion damage work vs shield? can you block towards say a bomb and not take dmg or is it within range = damage
onyx venture
You can block explosions with proper positioning
true fable
i think you can block urns but im gonna need @honest kernel to give me the verdict on that one
i think ive blocked urn damage by blocking toward the center of the urn radius though
daring hedge
arthur's hallowed ground should be able to disable urn pools
it disables traps, and the urns are traps
honest kernel
i *think* you can block urns but im gonna need <@456226577798135808> to give me ...
I have blocked urns in the past
I just tend to bullrush over them if I can LOL
gusty kite
me: I need to look out for some darkness rooms just to get my hp back up
also me: ooh chaos is offering special damage in exchange for not seeing room rewards? sure why not
sly remnant
Tartarus has so many single exit rooms that hidden rooms is op in tartarus
daring hedge
yeah show them the best chaos curses for resets
true fable
LMAO
dire steppe
Most op curse is can’t pick up bloodstone
true fable
hidden rooms is not up there btw because it doesnt help you die faster
daring hedge
true lol
daring hedge
when you get minus max health and chaos puts you at 1 hp though
true fable
👌
dire steppe
i wish having 1 HP would let you run both high confidence and skull earring but it just doesn’t
true fable
literally best curse
solemn pulsar
Minus max health curse = enemy damage buff and trap buff all in one
feral marlin
Saw a streamer avoid a mystery boon from Charon cause he "didn't want to dilute his God pool" - is there any basis to that with the logic of which gods are available on a run and which aren't? Is there a way to manipulate it beyond keepsaking a God you want to show up?
edgy arrow
after you’ve got four different gods the game stops offering you more
you can still force them with keepsakes tho
feral marlin
Interesting, thanks
tidal flame
who are you?
shy gulch
me too
vapid wasp
Anyone got any tips on builds to properly learn EM4? Trying to creep up now, and EM4 seems like an "easy" 4 heat - but still learning the moveset.
vital grove
It's not an easy 4 heat
shy gulch
its really not unfortunately, its a very difficult fight
its not a 4 heat you typically want to add unless ur name is retrash
rich basin
I was doing so well
until I got shafted with boons on the run when I went for EM4 lol
my 1st time...still got him to final phase, but just didn't have jack diddly for offense/defense
gonna try again and pray for better boons
gentle bridge
buuuut if you really want EM4, take acorn and master the timing of your dashes
rich basin
I mean if you wanted it really easy couldn't you just do Hermes keepsake + Stygian (Arthur) + the Hermes boon for the resolve after dashing?
gentle bridge
imo em4 changes the entire run from "can i survive to dad" to "can i beat superdad?"
rich basin
I mean for me I've never lost when I was stacking up EM to begin with...had a 12 streak from the 1st win to the EM4 where I failed 😦
if you can get aphro + art I feel like it's almost an insta win
gentle bridge
em4 changes the run in a big way, esp. if you add all the other pacts (like FO)
rich basin
true I'm only at 12 heat atm, so just EM4 on
vapid wasp
Fair, but I feel like EM1-3 were all necessary learning steps and once you learned them - they're easy. Is EM 4 not like that? I know you definitely need a good build to succeed at EM4, whereas an average build can get you past EM3 - but surely with timing/skill/repeition it becomes easy(ish).
rich basin
Well the issue with EM4 is just...yea it depends on your skill obviously, but they add in A LOT more things for the final fight
tidal flame
I think EM4 is similar to EM3. You can learn to perfect the fight if you want.
rich basin
and some of it is semi-random so sometimes you get situations which are very hard to get out of...(also right now me realizing I'm not going to get Athena since I have 4 gods already)
tidal flame
The reason why EM4 is an issue and not EM3 is because TD is a thing
EM4 is massive time sink
rich basin
I'm mad though because I was close to winning my 1st EM4
hopefully this kit will come together a bit better now
daring hedge
EM4 is definitely learnable but it's widely considered a massive step up from EM3 in terms of overall difficulty and pressure
not to mention superdad's damage output with HL5, and then FO2 added on, etc.
it's very dangerous
onyx venture
Even base EM4 can wreck you if you aren't used to it
static plover
can confirm, I learnt that the hard way when first trying out the EM4 fight