h1-high-heat-strategies

[true fable]

so it says a lot that he felt the need to seed for dedge

[daring hedge]

you can either play beo with beo or play charged flight with beo

[sly remnant]

if you want to go higher than 51 you'll have to play beo with beo

[solemn pulsar]

Sword is such a stinky weapon makes me sad

[sly remnant]

imo

but i can think of atleast 3 better beo players than me

[daring hedge]

yeah, at a certain point just charged flight might not cut it

but at least for GY, charged skewer will always cut it

[sly remnant]

i don't even think charged flight is that good its just safe

[daring hedge]

it's simple to use and safe, yeah. i think it's pretty strong for how low commitment it is

and it used to be even stronger

[sly remnant]

i agree its low commitment and strong for that commitment

i take charged flight sometimes

[true fable]

its so fast

i think thats the biggest thing for me

a min charge throw will still delete things

and is lightning fast

[sly remnant]

i think its a lot better on non-beo shields

[true fable]

imagine if you could get it on chaos

deadly flourish would be pog

[sly remnant]

its true

it'd be insane

but i think there's a reason the fastest 50+ beo times ever....used beo for beo.

to get the weapon to the highest heat you can go i don't think you can rely on things like charged flight spam

[true fable]

hehe i slow

i want to try to do it again a bit faster

[sly remnant]

you have the second fastest beo 50 clear ever

you are not slow

[daring hedge]

charged flight beo is basically a weird hestia, complete with the same quirk of not wanting to take DC because it would slow down that plan

[true fable]

:^) and it was with phase 3 in OT

[sly remnant]

beo is a bad weapon at 50 heat

we've always known that

also your build was far from optimal

[dire steppe]

beois a bad weapon

[daring hedge]

it's really good at EM4 though, which is a significant plus

[sly remnant]

^it is the best weapon at EM4

pls ban rigged mods

he is spreading fake news

[dire steppe]

love u too

[sly remnant]

and bright don't sell yourself short

[true fable]

i thought it was so funny

that i got

cold fusion

[sly remnant]

i'm p sure you are the best beo player in the world

[true fable]

second wave

and fricken

stubborn roots

but no seastorm

[sly remnant]

wave-pounding tho

wave pounding did soooo much work

[true fable]

i appreciate the kind words tho

i think it can def go faster

[sly remnant]

same

i'm thinking

an RI2 pact

[true fable]

yup

[sly remnant]

i think the pact i decided i would speedrun one day on beo is HL5 EM4 LC4 JS3 BP2 MM UC FO2 RI2 AP1 TD3

something like that

[true fable]

50?

[sly remnant]

yea

AP1 RI2

just roll it anyways 4Head

[true fable]

lol

[main delta]

just got the most nuts run with rama and im salty that i didnt record it again

i guess i just have to record everything now

[true fable]

that is the rule

otherwise your best runs will always be the first runs where you forgot to show death and didnt record

[main delta]

i made it out of asphodel and i thought hey this run is pretty nice

so i recorded from elysium to the end

[true fable]

lol that happened to me on hestia 45 yesterday

i was schmoovin and was like hey i should probably be live

got deadly strike and even forgot to remove shackle and still got it

[main delta]

wow nice!

[true fable]

luckily 45 hestia isnt competitive lol

[main delta]

i always die to timer on hestia

[true fable]

otherwise id be kicking myself

[daring hedge]

twin and perfect shot is one of my fav hammer combos, very nice

[main delta]

i thought i would die since i almost never clear runs without divine dash

but i got 2 dash strike boons and a cyclops jerky so it all worked out

[sly remnant]

i just dashed into an axe trap without SD

why am i this way

[true fable]

pain

[main delta]

pain

[sly remnant]

it wasn't even triggered by an enemy

i triggered the trap

[true fable]

classic

you just

[main delta]

i do that all the time

[true fable]

know

thats by design

[sly remnant]

being 3 whiskeys in probably doesn't help

[edgy arrow]

it’s even better when you only die because HS is on

[daring hedge]

those deaths make amir stronger

[edgy arrow]

1 heat = 1 hit KO

[sly remnant]

i don't remember the last time i died to axe trap actually

its been awhile

[true fable]

yeah

[edgy arrow]

not a common occurrence for me either ig

[true fable]

spike traps are a once in a while occurrence for me

[edgy arrow]

but when it does happen...

[true fable]

especially if im using the cursed spear

[sly remnant]

lmfao

i remember watching you step on traps

like 3 runs in a row

[daring hedge]

there are multiple cursed spears though

[sly remnant]

and i was flaming you

rofl tail

[edgy arrow]

all spears are cursed prove me wrong

wait no

it’s me

i’m cursed

[sly remnant]

same

i can only achilles and even then i am a very mediocre achilles player

[fathom cloud]

I really want to love spear, but the damage makes me cry every time

[spring kettle]

It’s difficult to take advantage of what makes each aspect unique, except for Achilles

[fathom cloud]

I wouldn't say it's hard to take advantage of Hades' buff, but it's just that it feels damage is super low and only just acceptable when you use the buff

[tidal flame]

What if you can get Twin Shot and Triple Shot

[fathom cloud]

Get it on Lucifer, now Zag has Hades' lasers

[true fable]

thats just triple beam

god if there were twin beam

lucifer instant best weap

[honest kernel]

Maxed Aspect of Zagreus is damn insane for its own good

especially if you use the base damage for zeus and the special 5+nukes for artemis

with the hammer

[daring hedge]

it's okay for low heat but zag spear absolutely struggles at high heat

even if you try to optimize it

oh wait you meant zag rail

nevermind

[honest kernel]

yeah

lmaoo

im currently on heat leavel 10+

[sly remnant]

10 is good! thats awesome!

[honest kernel]

15+ my anxiety builds up

[sly remnant]

same

[mossy zinc]

Zag Rail is just Eris with -75% damage.

[honest kernel]

not if you use the right buffs

[shy gulch]

how do you build zag rail so it’s not just an inferior eris

[honest kernel]

plus keepsakes are there for a reason

[sly remnant]

spread fire zag rail

[honest kernel]

stack it with zeus base damage with artemis special

and if you're lucky stack it with chaos gate special

[mossy zinc]

Spread Fire is Zaxagryph's only purpose.

[honest kernel]

and dade hammer

you're using it wrong...

[mossy zinc]

I don't think so lol.

[honest kernel]

the real monster is the nukes

[mossy zinc]

If you put that on Eris, you'll get way more lol.

[shy gulch]

I mean cluster rockets work on every rail yeah

^

[honest kernel]

dont get me wrong spread fire is awesome

but if you're going for pure dps

stack the nukes with artemis

and chaos special

[sly remnant]

sure but eris does that job better

[honest kernel]

its and added bonus

[true fable]

zag rail spread fire is a drug

its so dangerous

but its soooo fun

[sly remnant]

zag rail spread fire is a legit weapon in seeded

[shy gulch]

so do u still go zeus attack w spread fire or something like artemis

I need to try it

[sly remnant]

arti

[honest kernel]

ill dm it to you

[mossy zinc]

I mean I got 9:08 first try with Spread Fire today. I don't think DPS was the problem lol.

[sly remnant]

you can splash dash for aoe on zag rail

[honest kernel]

entire run?

[mossy zinc]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/791438626457518100/Hades_1277.png?width=770&height=433

[honest kernel]

nice

[shy gulch]

hunting blades pog

[honest kernel]

yeah eris is awesome

[mossy zinc]

There's a Fully Loaded in there lol.

[honest kernel]

@mossy zinc if you're lucky enough you can combine artemis special nukes with eris build

granted you get 2+ hammers

[mossy zinc]

If you're doing Lightning Strike + Deadly Flourish on Zag Rail, you're just playing Eris with -75% damage.

[honest kernel]

the regular bullet attacks i dont pay much attention anyways

its the special i stack up

and other things

though i should consider

for the overall build

[mossy zinc]

Special has a CD. You'll be using your Attack more than your Special if you're optimizing your DPS.

[honest kernel]

yeah

so what is the best boon for the rail base attack

?

[mossy zinc]

Deadly Strike for Spread Fire. Lightning Strike otherwise. Which is why Zag Rail is just pretty much obsolete once you have Eris because Eris does Lightning Strike better.

[fathom cloud]

Eris does basically everything else better. Global +% damage is insane.

Speaking of, does the damage buff apply to already-ticking dots, or just on-apply?

[honest kernel]

wait you're talking about aspect of eris

?

[fathom cloud]

That's the only Eris thing you can use in this game, yes

[honest kernel]

i was confused because i thought you were talking about eris build as a whole

confused for a sec

[sly remnant]

wells there's eris bangle

[honest kernel]

ik the weapon itself

[fathom cloud]

Oh right I forgot about that, thanks

[mossy zinc]

All damage is amplified while the buff is active. So yes, it applies to DOT that's already ticking.

[fathom cloud]

Unlike Achilles, gotcha

[sly remnant]

eris is just flat global damage.

[mossy zinc]

Not flat.

[honest kernel]

only issue i have with spread fire is the reduced range but the damage is worth it

[sly remnant]

you know what i mean

[honest kernel]

its like going from a rail gun to an automatic shotgun

[mossy zinc]

It's a bit of a shame that Zag Rail and Eris don't see much build variety.

@north dove sick! Congratulations! Very well done!

[north dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/791503065324322816/unknown.png 50 heat arthur sword done

thanks 🙂

[sly remnant]

the sword god himself

dunking on us

[north dove]

this might have been one of the easiest EM4 fights I had

[sly remnant]

while we were typing in discord

[north dove]

I was just messing around with him

[sly remnant]

retrash studied the blade

[daring hedge]

backstab stonks: huge

[mossy zinc]

Rare Swift Strike is great.

[daring hedge]

congrats!

[honest kernel]

grats

i cant get past 20 heat

[north dove]

it was a common swift strike upgraded by eurydice, very lucky

[mossy zinc]

What's the other one? Flourish?

Oh, Quick Recovery.

I see the ++s.

[north dove]

oh yeah that

[honest kernel]

@mossy zinc would the butterfly keepsake also work well with eris rail granted its stacked enough

[fathom cloud]

If you can't get past 20, you are probably getting hit too much for butterfly to be worth it

[honest kernel]

I usually get above 30%

[mossy zinc]

Eris is super aggressive, so you're probably not bothering no-hitting rooms. Meta is Thunder Signet > Conch Shell > whatever.

[north dove]

skull earring is literally just a better pierced butterfly

[mossy zinc]

Lightning Strike > Tidal Dash > Breaking Wave etc.

Congratulations!

[sly remnant]

grats!

[honest kernel]

grats

[mossy zinc]

If you practice 45, you'll get better.

Only way to run into those problems that you need to figure out how to deal with.

But if you're not running 45, you don't know what you need to solve.

You can make practice saves for those to grind just the boss fights.

[shy gulch]

@north dove is patty’s keepsake good? I haven’t tried it but I kinda thought that just 1.5 seconds wouldn’t be useful

[mossy zinc]

I used to just grind Lernie > Champions > Hades > repeat from three practice saves for days.

[shy gulch]

like not over something like tooth or acorn

also how do you make a proper practice save

[north dove]

spearpoint is godlike on EM4 with hell mode

[mossy zinc]

Get into the chamber you want to practice > backup your Profile1_Temp.sav. Replace Profile2.sav or whichever slot with your practice save.

[north dove]

especially on melee weapons

[mossy zinc]

Then just load your save from profile 2, do the run, and when you die or win, just pause and Give Up, then you can do it again.

[honest kernel]

man im at a cursed choice

i got a path of artemis and zeus combo and a hammer on the other end

in Tartarus

[stiff aurora]

What are you playing?

[honest kernel]

eris rail

i do want the spread fire but damn i want some art and zeus additional buffs

[mossy zinc]

You wouldn't really want Spread Fire on Eris.

What's your current build?

[stiff aurora]

The hammer will prohably come back unless it is like the last room, I would get the boons

[honest kernel]

current build is lightning strike so far

and artemis dash attack

[sly remnant]

nah hammers are pretty important on rail

i'd go hammer

[honest kernel]

dash strike*

but damn duel boons that i could dream of

[stiff aurora]

The game tries really hard to give you a hammer in tartarus, chances are it will come back

[mossy zinc]

Hammers do so much for your DPS on practically every aspect, they're almost always the right choice.

[shy plinth]

Especially on rail

Trials are slow

[honest kernel]

so its the solid choice over the zeus/artemis dual boon

damn

i see your point

[stiff aurora]

Yeah getting the gods is pretty greedy

[sly remnant]

lightning rod is no hammer and you can't get dual boon in trials

[shy plinth]

Like if you're desperate for boons to sell to UC I could see it

But the sooner you can get to cluster rockets or whatever the better

[honest kernel]

yeah that makes perfect sense

considering i already have a chaos attack buff with zeus lightning strike

and artemis dash strike

[mossy zinc]

I think they mean dual as in two boons.

[vital grove]

I'd get the hammer

[honest kernel]

yeah two boons

[sly remnant]

oh i see. thanks for the clarification

[vital grove]

Can't go wrong with Rail hammers

[honest kernel]

so hammer it still is

[mossy zinc]

I think trial isn't a bad choice tbh, but an early Rocket Bomb or something would do a lot more.

[honest kernel]

yh exactly

[shy plinth]

Or a targeting system

But yes gimme cluster rockets

[mossy zinc]

I would sell Hunter Dash after Tartarus and go for Conch Shell + Tidal Dash.

[sly remnant]

^iagree with nyaanyaa

[mossy zinc]

Hunter Dash on Rail without Spread Fire or Hestia is bad.

And Eris does better without Spread Fire.

[vital grove]

And sea storm is sick on Eris anyway

[mossy zinc]

Sea Storm isn't really the focus. You can't get Sea Storm with just Tidal Dash, either.

Tidal Dash is just that good + t2 boons.

[sly remnant]

sea storm isn't important

breaking wave is

[honest kernel]

well didnt get the 5 , 3 bombs or rocket

[stiff aurora]

F

[honest kernel]

instead it gave me delta chamber seeking fire and piercing fire

[mossy zinc]

Piercing Fire and Delta Chamber are both alright.

[honest kernel]

i went for delta chamber

[true fable]

@north dove is it worth letting doomstone setup if you have spearpoint

to proc the shield with laser ticks

or is that too dangerous

[north dove]

absolutely yes

lasers are your friends

[honest kernel]

Better than taking a spear to the face

Or a quick stab

[vital grove]

Does triggering chaos curse damage proc the Spearpoint?

[sly remnant]

p sure chaos curse triggers nothing damage related

[honest kernel]

^

[mossy zinc]

Jun 2020 high heat meta: Don't get hit.
Dec 2020 high heat meta: Get hit but only by lasers.

[vital grove]

Or butterflies

[sly remnant]

no

screw butterflies

stupid little bugs

that stun you

[daring hedge]

seething hatred for the butterflies

[vital grove]

Apply more fire

[honest kernel]

"Can I just charge my shield for half a seco-" Gets hit by 3 more butterflies

[tidal flame]

next dlc should have a flame thrower

[sly remnant]

well item

R.A.I.D.

[honest kernel]

Make it a Soul Lamp

[true fable]

this is why unshakeable mettle is a good boon

[shy plinth]

Are the butterflies projectiles

[honest kernel]

Imagine getting duos in a run and not throwing in the room after

[true fable]

also hyper sprint

[shy plinth]

Does calc risk slow them down

[honest kernel]

That's ... a good question

[true fable]

you can facetank dad lasers with hsprint to charge bull rush

[daring hedge]

i think it does

[shy plinth]

I would bet calc risk is one of the least taken duos

So I am not surprised it is not immediately obvious

[true fable]

its broken

[honest kernel]

I take it because Green boon

[sly remnant]

i don't take athena so

[honest kernel]

Also because it's dio

[true fable]

50%

[sly remnant]

i can't answer

[honest kernel]

Green boon = loads of money

[daring hedge]

poor phalanx flare

[sly remnant]

if phalanx flare wants to get picked

it needs to be better

[shy plinth]

Phalanx flare yikes

[honest kernel]

Ah yes, deflecting attacks of opponents that would be dead on any other cast

Fantastic

[sly remnant]

also wow tail just calling me out with that phalanx flare cuz i can only play one aspect

[daring hedge]

hunter's flare is also just really depressingly bad

[honest kernel]

well this was a damn lucky turn of events , got an epic chaos attack and then traded my dash strike and got an epic tidal wave and now i randomly just got seastorm from charons shop

[daring hedge]

lmao

[honest kernel]

Artemis cast in general

Is just sad

[true fable]

phalanx flare would be better if it still had that parting shot interaction

[honest kernel]

@mossy zinc you just saved me from my own bad luck

I mean, 10% crit ? Really ?

[daring hedge]

hey it carried my hera 50

[true fable]

that hera has

[daring hedge]

just kidding it was in spite of it

[gentle bridge]

i dunno why im doing this to myself, but gil fist is calling me. died at strx tunnel 3 tho

https://imgur.com/a/e60DpTS

[true fable]

i dont see it

[gentle bridge]

wat wait gimme a sec. net is wonky

[vital grove]

I guess true shot kinda depends on other crit boosts like Marked

[mossy zinc]

"Darkness!"

[daring hedge]

is that.. a dash-strike spam gilga build

[honest kernel]

Ya bet

[true fable]

DR talos with true shot is one of my fav builds

[honest kernel]

With Ares call 👀

[daring hedge]

common ares call

pog

[gentle bridge]

ap2 told me to pick it

[honest kernel]

Hey he has Billowing

Surely it's still worth using, right ?

right?

[gentle bridge]

it wasnt so bad, i just didnt know what id do IF i get to superdad

[honest kernel]

FO1 HL2

You got this

[daring hedge]

they died already

[true fable]

wait

[vital grove]

Ares call can be a serviceable super dash

[quartz mantle]

So I see some things mentioning healing with Stubborn Defiance but that only restores you to 30% of your max hp am I missing something?

[honest kernel]

... welp I'm that tired already aren't I

[true fable]

where are your boons

[gentle bridge]

some at UC, then the rest i took hearts over boons

[daring hedge]

in AP2 hammerspace

[fathom cloud]

Suicide so it heals you to that theshold

[gentle bridge]

i told myself "just dodge better"

[honest kernel]

At base, yes. With the Touch of Styx Dark items from the Well of Charon and from Patroclus, you can boost it up. +10% from the Charon wells, +50% from Patroclus. Both for 15 encounters

[quartz mantle]

Yea but that's still just 30%

[gentle bridge]

didnt work too hot

[sly remnant]

we take what we can get

[honest kernel]

^

[fathom cloud]

Yeah but most people here get 0% healing from anywhere else due to LC4

[daring hedge]

yeah it's not meant to be a huge heal

[quartz mantle]

I guess so

Well there goes High Confidence I guess

[daring hedge]

until patty shows up and then it is absolutely huge

[gentle bridge]

also at high heat i realized its hard to not die at least 2-3 times per biome, so SD pays for itself around asphodel

[sly remnant]

2-3 times

i wish i was that good

[honest kernel]

For me it pays itself in Elysium

I die maybe once in Asphodel lol

Unless super bad BP room happens

[sly remnant]

WELL I'M BAD BAJ

[fathom cloud]

Aphodel for me since I use lava to fish for Athena DDs

[honest kernel]

YOU PLAY BEO

OF COURSE IT'S GONNA BE HARDER EARLY

[daring hedge]

same as baj; usually what gets me personally are JS boosted BP dracons

[mossy zinc]

What's Defiance?

[sly remnant]

i need my crutches nyaanyaa

[quartz mantle]

Does Last Stand increase SD's healing or just DD's?

[daring hedge]

it does

[sly remnant]

yes

[honest kernel]

SD's as well

[quartz mantle]

Sick

[true fable]

im thinking about writing an ez heat guide for these sort of q's

but we already have haels guide

[quartz mantle]

So you really want to fish out Athena boons early on then

[honest kernel]

It's an option

[true fable]

not sure how comprehensive haels guide is

[mossy zinc]

@daring hedge you're not allowed to talk like you need revives anymore after that 50 Heat mirrorless.

Denied.

[true fable]

unovarydrake do you see why athena dominates

[quartz mantle]

I respect the hell out of that

[true fable]

she gives you dash AND DDs

[quartz mantle]

I mean honestly the best things I see from Athena are her casts and dash

[honest kernel]

I've said it earlier today, but I don't think she's the anwser for the 60+ heat meta

[sly remnant]

phalanx flare is a WeirdChamp from me

[quartz mantle]

Maybe I should be playing at higher heats but I consistently get to Hades without using defiances

[daring hedge]

high heat will definitely change that

[quartz mantle]

Yea I can only imagine

Highest heat rn is 3 on the gun

[honest kernel]

ANY encounter could be the end of the run

Directly or not

[mossy zinc]

Again, you're not allowed to talk about need for revives anymore.

You should be like, "What are revives?"

[quartz mantle]

But I've been doing a lot of weapons not really focusing on one

[mossy zinc]

60+ is just just gonna be DPS builds. No time for anything else.

[sly remnant]

don't focus on one

soon you'll only read shot as flare

[gentle bridge]

thats good, getting familiar with all aspects is gonna help you in the long run

[mossy zinc]

Maybe try 61 with TD2?

[honest kernel]

Mirrorless

Have fun with that

[mossy zinc]

Probably not. EM4 CP2 is a DPS check.

[quartz mantle]

Just unlocked the 4th spear and like the frick

[sly remnant]

yea EM4 is a dps check. thats why i like it

[gentle bridge]

oh boi. guan yu gaming

[quartz mantle]

It's like that one sword upgrade except all the time

also 15 max health moment

[sly remnant]

@gaunt fiber someone flaming your aspect

[honest kernel]

If I could stop throwing my runs on phase 3 I'd already be on the 60 grind

It's legit so frustrating

[true fable]

i dont think she is either

she just helps the vast majority of players get to 30-40

[gentle bridge]

guan yu's fun. you'll really learn how to dodge and position

[sly remnant]

athena is a crutch but a good one

but i refuse to pick her now

[mossy zinc]

You should try a build like this. It's really good. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/787460139220336680/Hades_1240.png?width=770&height=433

[daring hedge]

why refuse

[sly remnant]

on shield?

its bad

[honest kernel]

^

[quartz mantle]

I see no problems with that

[honest kernel]

Even on Zeus shield I don't like it

[true fable]

having athena means not having a god that gives you deeps

[honest kernel]

Low damage is why

[sly remnant]

its legit a throw on shield

[honest kernel]

Shield's last worry is safety

Same for mobility

[true fable]

id take zeus/arty/aphro over her anyday

[sly remnant]

if i'm not playing shield i'll pick it

[honest kernel]

Damage is the main problem to solve

That's why I do Skull Earing strats even on speedruns

With Lasting Consequences

[daring hedge]

see i thought you meant in general tyler

[mossy zinc]

So just say you'll never pick it.

[daring hedge]

that you just never take athena ever again

[sly remnant]

come on tail i can only play one aspect competently

[daring hedge]

lmao

[sly remnant]

everyone knows that

[gentle bridge]

quick question: on ap2, i should just equip shackle on tartarus, right?

[sly remnant]

and i'm not even top 3 players on that aspect

[honest kernel]

It's a strat, depending on your weapon

Rama and Hestia are notorious Shackle weapons

[mossy zinc]

My strategy is to take the Eternal Rose in Tartarus every time because that's the most fun for me.

It also just works tbh.

[gentle bridge]

cause any aphro boon is good anyway?

[sly remnant]

isnt that exactly what i said

[mossy zinc]

High damage, amazing Duo Boons, and +43% eHP from the start.

Most importantly, a good chance to get the Disciple of Aphrodite title.

[honest kernel]

The more I think about it

The more I should just start Artemis or something

And hope to get the special

Instead of Shackles

[sly remnant]

arti good good

[honest kernel]

Like, I know I ideally want to ditch it in Asphodel, ideally, regardless

And Tartarus is NOT where I will save the most time

[daring hedge]

i'd recommend it tbh

[vital grove]

Run shaping, ap2. Pick 1

[daring hedge]

that's what i did

[honest kernel]

Considering I'll want to do 61 heat ... It's not an option

I'd rather do mirrorless TD2 instead

[vital grove]

Then I'll wish you good luck

And suggest a seeded file where you always get special first

Ideally epic

[honest kernel]

I still don't want to seed it

That isn't how I improved in general

[mossy zinc]

Why would you pick Deadly Flourish over Heartbreak Flourish on Zeus Aspect when you have a low chance of seeing any t2 crit boons or other bonus Special damage in your run?

Heartbreak Flourish does more damage and has better pom scaling.

[honest kernel]

Because Skull Earing is the second part of the plan

And that scales better late-game than Aphrodite special will

Also includes Charon's jerky, and if I'm lucky enough, Chaos boons

[unreal pasture]

nyaa became Todd Howard

[honest kernel]

I'll need all the damage I can get

[sly remnant]

aphro just isn't as useful at mega high heat

[vital grove]

Did you consider starting pom and taking whatever special first so it scales up that way early

[honest kernel]

That was my plan already, even on shackles

Get a special early -> Pom it

But I might as well give me one of the best gods for that

[mossy zinc]

Weak Specials have bad pom scaling.

They won't catch up.

[vital grove]

Yeah but you could luck into a stronger one

[sly remnant]

ap2 says no

[honest kernel]

^

[warm osprey]

😦

[sly remnant]

ap2 warps the game

[unreal pasture]

luck into a full on replace of the special you want you mean

[vital grove]

I get ya. AP1 says no to me a lot, ap2 must be greeeeeat

[honest kernel]

That's what happened in my 57 heat clear

[daring hedge]

the super high heat experience, distilled

[honest kernel]

Which I totally lucked out on in Elysium

[warm osprey]

yeah you got swapped out

lol

[sly remnant]

rofl

[honest kernel]

It actually was a good thing

More chill faster for the Heroes and Hades

Even with Frost strike, which I ended up selling after the Heroes

T'was that, the special or the call

When I had Sudden + Minotaur Rush

[unreal pasture]

Chill is in a weird spot... in terms of damage

[sly remnant]

chill owns at high heat

[honest kernel]

^

[unreal pasture]

It's bad damage, but because it slows them so much... it usually winds up letting you get in more damage

[honest kernel]

Unparalleled support

[daring hedge]

chill is great and killing freeze makes it even better if you net it

[sly remnant]

killing freeze is so good

[unreal pasture]

I literally never get killing freeze

[vital grove]

It's like the 2nd best scaling isn't it

[unreal pasture]

Even in AP0

[honest kernel]

You're only really getting it with rerolls/by getting Demeter early

[unreal pasture]

demeter and her having too many trash boons

[honest kernel]

Because Demeter has a TON of boons from the getgo

[sly remnant]

snow burst ravenous will good boons

[honest kernel]

Add Killing Freeze and Glacial Glare to that list

[vital grove]

Does Nourish do anything on lc4

[honest kernel]

And then ... there's her McDonalds boon

[sly remnant]

it gives you a boon you cant sell

[daring hedge]

ravenous will lightning rod rules tbh

[sly remnant]

in my 50 clear rav will + hunter dash + deadly strike destroyed meg

[vital grove]

Oh so it's like after party on Lc4 then

[honest kernel]

After Party you can sell

[sly remnant]

except you can sell after party

[honest kernel]

Nourrished Soul, nope

[unreal pasture]

been playing a lot with stygian soul... and it makes rav will a lot worse

[vital grove]

They should make it at least give a tiny heal

[daring hedge]

all the boons that spawn a physical item for you to potentially pick up cannot be sold

[unreal pasture]

Snow Burst is quite good though, yes

[sly remnant]

uh doesn't stygian soul make rav will better?

[honest kernel]

On non-beo or non-hera weapons, it's a bit less convenient

[unreal pasture]

No... it's harder to dump the cast stone consistently

[mossy zinc]

Pommed Deadly Flourish + Skull Earring just about catches up with a pommed Heartbreak Flourish. And 30% DR is huge. Deadly makes way more sense on Shield Attack where you have several +% hammers with big numbers.

[sly remnant]

i mean eris dumps it constantly

[unreal pasture]

So you're forced into a cast animation every 3 seconds in your rotation

I mean... don't speed runners run with only 1 cast stone anyway for this reason?

[honest kernel]

Hmm. Honestly, a better strat could be start with Artemis attack

[unreal pasture]

Because you don't want to be in cast animations, you just dump out your one terrible cast stone?

[honest kernel]

And get whatever special from the miniboss if you can

That way, you get a better rarity one

[sly remnant]

most of the time you can animation cancel out of casting

[honest kernel]

It's mostly because you have to do it every so often

[mossy zinc]

Maybe. Disparity between weak and strong Special boons is pretty high. Worth a try, though.

[honest kernel]

Instead of just "Lol I'll cast 3 times gimme that boost now Dem Dem"

[sly remnant]

yea but lightning rod

picking up cast stones suck

i know

i play flood flare beo

[honest kernel]

Either way, Artemis start with either Attack or Special is in my best interest overall for damage

[sly remnant]

arti good

[honest kernel]

Common Aphrodite attack suuuucks

Or at 'least compared to what I can do later with Artemis attack

[fathom cloud]

Yeah Arty is less rarity dependent right

[daring hedge]

very

[honest kernel]

Not even pom dependant

[sly remnant]

arti is damage out of the box

[mossy zinc]

I've been using Casts a lot more in my rotations on all aspects for way better DPS and switched to Infernal Soul just for that.

[fathom cloud]

Also, woo 6/6 32, spear done with GY

[mossy zinc]

Actually, Heartbreak is damage out of the box. Deadly requires hammers or something to pull ahead.

[sly remnant]

?

i need rarity and poms

arti is "its my damage and i want it now"

[fathom cloud]

Heartbreak needs rarity and poms, Deadly needs boons

[sly remnant]

and scales multiplicatively with many different sources

deadly does not need boons

[unreal pasture]

I don't know where the math breaks even on it...

[sly remnant]

just needs damage from any number of sources

[fathom cloud]

Pretty sure Heartbreak > Deadly until you get more % damage or T2 boons no?

[mossy zinc]

The only time Deadly Strike beats Heartbreak Strike on its own is at Lv.1 common. Any other rarity or level, Heartbreak Strike wins.

[honest kernel]

Considering my non-priority hammers boost damage in some way (Minotaur/Breaching Rush, Empowering Flight, Dashing Wallop, Ferocious Guard), I think odds are in my favor

[unreal pasture]

15% * +200%, it averages +30% right on picking up the boon

[honest kernel]

To get Artemis attack to do something more, uninvested, than an Aphrodite attack

[sly remnant]

yea but you need damage. you'll always pick damage

so arti scales betteer

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, Deadly Strike makes a lot of sense on shield attack.

[sly remnant]

when do you not need damage

[daring hedge]

arti scaling better with hammers you get along the way regardless is huge

[unreal pasture]

I kind of like being able to take a few hits from Hades... frankly

[honest kernel]

I'm actually liking this theory-crafting a lot

Will have to mess with it

[unreal pasture]

So in high heat... you need damage to get through TD3 and you need survivability... otherwise you can only make like 3 mistakes

[honest kernel]

Aphrodite special start also a consideration

[sly remnant]

aphro is great until you turn EM4 on

[honest kernel]

That or Demeter

Not kidding

[unreal pasture]

I think turning 80 damage spins or 100 damage spear tosses into 56 and 70 respectively matters quite a bit, still

[main delta]

why does aphro fall off for em4?

[sly remnant]

hades cant hurt you if he's dead

[honest kernel]

Honestly ? Weak matters a bit for me.

Spins and spear throws aren't what hurt me

It's the quick stabs that I can't block in time

They do like 50 damage

[sly remnant]

but there are other ways to apply it without putting it on an attack boon

[unreal pasture]

A little bit of convoluted logic... because you can't insta-kill hades

[honest kernel]

Mistral Dash and Frost Strike are both more than enough for me

For that matter

[mossy zinc]

Not all hammers. Shield has Dashing Wallop, Minotaur Rush, Breaching Rush, and Empowering Flight that are %. So it makes a lot of sense on shield. And I guess Ferocious Guard, but that's just +20%, so they would probably just about pull even.

[honest kernel]

^

[daring hedge]

i mean i didn't mean all hammers

[honest kernel]

Otherwise, you get the big 3 damage hammers, Charged Shot, Explosive Return, and Pulverizing Blow, that want any sort of big attack hammers

That leaves Sudden Rush, which is still great utility

[sly remnant]

again you can apply weak in other ways

[daring hedge]

yep

[mossy zinc]

Right. Just adding to what you said. Not contradicting.

[sly remnant]

damage is actually hard in this game

[honest kernel]

Passion Dash still good

For that matter

[unreal pasture]

I like Passion Dash a lot

[sly remnant]

pash dash good

[unreal pasture]

I just wish the radius was slightly larger

and I know they buffed it

[daring hedge]

passion dash is a serious consideration when i run triple shot rama because i'm getting right up to each enemy anyways

[unreal pasture]

It wouldn't even be a problem really, considering we compare against Splash dash to damage

[honest kernel]

It's like what I want in speedruns lmao

[mossy zinc]

I think the radius is really nice now.

[unreal pasture]

And its radius is massive

[fathom cloud]

Get right up in there. Passionately.

[sly remnant]

i'm never sad about pash dash. destroys DC hearts and applies a good effect

[honest kernel]

I mostly picked Shackles so that I could do runs without having to reset as often

And not timeout in the process

But at this point, I'm not good enough for that

So I'll try to highroll where I can

[unreal pasture]

tail finishing 60 heat makes it so I lost motive to do 59

he should stop being so good at the game

[main delta]

oh holy crap i didnt see that

[honest kernel]

I'm legit still doubting whether Zeus shield can do it, or if it's just me

Likely the latter

[north dove]

50 heat arthur vid is up in #self-promotion

[main delta]

congrats tailesque!

[sly remnant]

i'm drunk so i might go watch retrash and cry about how bad i am

[unreal pasture]

Zeus is pretty hard to play... I'm generally frustrated when I play it

[mossy zinc]

You can do that when you're sober, too.

[sly remnant]

i know you think you're cool but you can't flame me as hard as i do

[mossy zinc]

I don't think you want to try me.

[unreal pasture]

I might go back to just playing non AP2 heats... like 50ish

To ... enjoy the game

[honest kernel]

Be careful tyler

[unreal pasture]

[sly remnant]

i don't really care

[honest kernel]

Nyaa's an FGC fella

Trashtalk's in their nature

[unreal pasture]

It's pretty fun when you get to pick your boons

[north dove]

AP2 isn't even the worst part, RI is

[honest kernel]

^

[unreal pasture]

Eh... I dunno

[mossy zinc]

I used to write battle rap, too.

[honest kernel]

oh lord

[unreal pasture]

I play a lot with Ruthless Reflex, so one dash is fine, for me.
Losing 50 hp is a struggle though

[daring hedge]

oh no

[unreal pasture]

And losing the possible +90% damage

Priv/Abyssal Blood

[sly remnant]

again. no one is going to flame me harder than i do at 3 am when i can't sleep

so have at it nyaanyaa

[unreal pasture]

I think AP2 ... might not be as bad as mirrorless, but it's certainly more tilting

[daring hedge]

AP2 is at its worst with hammers imo, for weapons that rely on them a decent amount to scale overall or for the end, and the fact that you can't reroll

[honest kernel]

Speaking of AP2 and rolls

Can I not just get the literal same boon twice in a row ?

[daring hedge]

lol yeah

[honest kernel]

Makes me want to go Fathed Autorithy I swear

[sly remnant]

fated authority underrated

change my mind

[daring hedge]

thank you dionysus for trying to put drunken strike on rama twice, i guess i have to take it now because i am out of fated keys

[honest kernel]

^ mood

[sly remnant]

what if i told you

there was a way to avoid dio entirely

[daring hedge]

don't play the game?

[sly remnant]

lmao

[honest kernel]

"Oops, rerolled Dio into Demeter, guess I'll sell my only actual boon"

[sly remnant]

ROFL

[daring hedge]

lol

[sly remnant]

fated authority def worse with RI

but with AP2 CF

i think fated authority good

[main delta]

its not possible to roll into a story room right?

[sly remnant]

unfortunately no

[honest kernel]

Can you roll into a midshop ?

[sly remnant]

no

[honest kernel]

Yeah ok my memories are screwed on that one

[daring hedge]

you used to be able to roll midshops into other things but it's probably not like that now

[unreal pasture]

Fated Authority is ... weird because it sinks time... but maybe it's not as bad as I think?

[daring hedge]

and i haven't tested that with FA for a long time

[honest kernel]

Pretty sure it stops the timer during the roll

[unreal pasture]

I never tried it in TD3

[daring hedge]

it doesn't unfortunately

[unreal pasture]

Ok

[honest kernel]

No ?

[daring hedge]

timer still goes

[honest kernel]

Bruh

[unreal pasture]

rip

that's an omegalul

[honest kernel]

Anyways

Gonna look into getting an hellmode savefile now

[sly remnant]

its literally only got one sweet spot. and its when CF and AP are on but RI isn't

[honest kernel]

Shoud I finish the one I started, or pull the one from sr.com

[sly remnant]

but in that sweet spot

authority owns

[unreal pasture]

Maybe you can pause buffer the reroll? Again, I haven't tested/played with Fated Authority enough to know this stuff

Like how you can codex buffer Thanatos to leave... but I think that's banned in speedrun?

I dunno

[honest kernel]

It is banned

Codex anywhere that isn't in a boon selection is forbidden

[unreal pasture]

Mmk

I honestly kind of wish the smoothed out some of the delays, but meh

[daring hedge]

you can codex in timer stopped rooms iirc; story and biome transitions

[honest kernel]

oh yeah that's valid

Forgot about those for a moment

[unreal pasture]

Where the timer is stopped anyway

[honest kernel]

Pretty much

Probably just gonna push my hellmode savefile then

It's about time

[sly remnant]

I might farm a hellmode save file after 40 heat EM4 all aspects

PL is an attractive heat

[true fable]

resqtoasters max save file on src: am i a joke to you

[honest kernel]

Me, who wants to take a break from high heat anyways "Yes"

[true fable]

come grind rta with me

[tidal flame]

3 weps?

[true fable]

yee

i want to dabble in all weaps too

[gentle bridge]

dang, Shame Town (idk if it's @north dove here cause i saw a link once) got a 50 heat arthur. cool

[true fable]

but my poseidon and hera arent quit there yet

yeah its retrash

[dire steppe]

i come back to 50 heat arthur

[spice whale]

Yep

Honestly, I like Arthur

Not my favorite aspect, but an aspect that's just fun to play around with

[fathom cloud]

OK, time for some maths-driven insights on Heartbreak vs. Deadly Strike damage.
TLDR: Deadly better at Common, else Heartbreak is better, until you get +60% additive damage from other sources which is easily achievable.

At Common rarity, Deadly > Heartbreak accounting for crits, at base.

At Rare and Epic, Heartbreak > Deadly Strike. Clean Kill (Common) is unable to sway this to Deadly on its own (assuming it is additive to the natural 300% crit damage multiplier). The gap grows even wider with more poms.

However, the breakevens are easily achievable:

• At Epic (high roll) and 0 poms, breakeven is at +60% damage from other sources
• At Epic (high roll) and 4 poms, breakeven is at +135% damage from other sources

[honest kernel]

What's the math for Deadly Flourish vs Heartbreak Flourish ?

Sorry to ask that out of the blue lol

[fathom cloud]

np, not too hard to change the inputs but I'm on my tablet which makes it clunky

[honest kernel]

Regardless, much appreciated

[fathom cloud]

Quick and dirty Deadly Flourish vs. Heartbreak Flourish:

• At Common, Deadly > Heartbreak
• At Rare, Deadly > Heartbreak
• At Epic, Heartbreak starts off better, but breakeven is at +20% additive damage from other sources when not pommed

I'm not calculating poms for now.

So, even more in favour of Deadly when Flourish instead of Strike.

[honest kernel]

Woah

That's huge

[fathom cloud]

I mean, it has 20% crit instead of 15% for starters

[honest kernel]

Yeah

But it's like what, +80% vs +40% ?

For heartbreak vs deadly at common

[fathom cloud]

Yeah, but strike is 50% vs 20%

[honest kernel]

... Makes sense

Artemis start it is

[fathom cloud]

But, you know, weak, duos, other supporting boons and all etc. need to be considered too

[honest kernel]

Artemis scales better with boons

Straight up

[fathom cloud]

Clean Kill just turns your crit from 300% to 315% right?

It's... not great

[honest kernel]

Clean Kill is the worse by far

Hunter's Mark is the big one

You hit a LOT with Zeus shield special

[fathom cloud]

My intuition on Clean Kill was completely wrong until I did this exercise

[honest kernel]

Otherwise, you get Pressure Points, which is just fantastic overall to get more crits, Hunter Instinct makes your call build up a lot faster, and Support Fire is generally good for Zeus shield while still helping out on building the call

Aphrodite gets ... Sweet Surrender ?

Otherwise she's all survivability

Duos with AP2 are basically a myth

And Artemis still wins on that front, between Deadly Reversal, Splitting Headache and (lol) Heart Rend

[north dove]

Duos are only offered when the run is doomed, never trust them

[honest kernel]

^

I know that for a fact

Gets offered Merciful End

"Is this the run ?"

Gets killed next room to butterflies

"..."

[gentle bridge]

so i just finshed watching @north dove 's 50 heat arthur. dang, that was quite a blessed run

also, spearpoint for superdad is big brain

[gentle bridge]

ooh. i thought clean kill's bonus is applied after all dmg calc

[fathom cloud]

Oh one other thing you might want to look at would be HP / damage breakpoints, but Im not gonna do that

[honest kernel]

They aren't that important

[fathom cloud]

Because averaged crit damage doesn't always transfer to faster TTK

[honest kernel]

Between damage control, and the nature of Zeus shield being a buzzsaw rather than a burst weapon

Breakpoints aren't as relevant

[fathom cloud]

What are the attack and special base damages on Zeus Shield? Artemis start is for what, the attack?

[honest kernel]

Originally for the attack

[fathom cloud]

I always considered it for flat damage boons on the special because I don't remember the base being that high

[honest kernel]

But after the calcs I def want to go for special

[fathom cloud]

But... compared to Zeus and Dio?

[honest kernel]

25 base on attack and dash attack, 30 on the special

But the special is super fast

[fathom cloud]

Huh

[honest kernel]

Zeus is basically a slightly better Aphrodite here

Common is like the equivalent of 100%

[fathom cloud]

But with a ton more AOE

[honest kernel]

It's not that much more

Unless you get High Voltage, but even then

[fathom cloud]

Plus Jolted

[honest kernel]

Jolted overrated on Zeus shield

Still great for speedruns

But yeah

Unlike Rail, you actually hitstun enemies

So it's only good on bosses

And even then, it's more or less adding a Doom, which is alright

What I DO care about, is Hunter's Mark

It's a massive damage boost for rooms, for the Lernie heads, and for the Heroes

Even against EM4 adds it's fantastic

If I wanted to highroll a tier 2, Hunter's Mark would be my pick

Jolted scales better, but you need more boons and poms to make it work

Hunter's Mark works ... just like that

[fathom cloud]

Can't argue against that, just feels weird that Artemis, typically better on high damage weapons (except Support Fire) is better here too

How are you scaling your special damage?

[honest kernel]

Chaos boon with some luck, Charon well jerky for special, Skull Earing is how I do it

Each one I get is huge, even if it is for 6 encounters

That's like 2/3rds of a biome

if not more

And then, there's Explosive Return and Technically Ferocious Guard

[fathom cloud]

Because without scaling, you're still really just picking Arty for Hunter's Mark instead of attack or special

Oh wait, nope my bad

[honest kernel]

It's still fantastic damage on the special lmao

[fathom cloud]

Common still good

[honest kernel]

I actually would like to know how it compares to Zeus Special

So 30, 38 and 45 for Common, Rare and Epic, respectively

100%, 126.67% and 150% respectively

[fathom cloud]

Special? That seems low

[honest kernel]

I mean, Aphrodite is effectively lower on average unless Epic's in the equation

And Thunder Flourish also kinda gets double benefits from Skull Earing

Since you boost the base special damage AND the lightning

[fathom cloud]

I think with no +damage, it's even with Deadly Flourish on Epic

[honest kernel]

Common vs Common, then ?

[fathom cloud]

Zeus slightly ahead

[honest kernel]

Hmm

Interesting

[fathom cloud]

Deadly Flourish unbuffed common works out to like 59 damage per hit

[honest kernel]

Vs the 60 from Thunder Flourish

lmao

You also nab DC2 in one hit instead of two

But Skull Earing still more effective on Deadly Flourish

So there's that

... I think

[fathom cloud]

Zeus probably scales more with Poms? I don't know its numbers

[honest kernel]

+12 damage, +8, +6 ... I think it was something like that

Let me check

[fathom cloud]

That's pretty significant

[honest kernel]

Nevermind can't find any ressource on it

[fathom cloud]

Deadly Strike gains like 3-4 damage per pom on 30-38 base damage

[mossy zinc]

Used to be pinned here. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c0C5S__GYUO8Cz2ibKhOUu7okqDTqhGRuCzwRlz6X1U/edit?usp=sharing

This is for Lv.1.

Has tabs for Nemesis and Zag Bow.

[fathom cloud]

Oooh nice

[dire steppe]

Rupture on zeus shield tho

Definitely not overrated

[true fable]

does it make sense to compare heartbreak and deadly in a vacuum? i guess maybe at ultra high heat? idk

[honest kernel]

I do, because I'm not likely to get many boons

That boost it

Not until like Elysium

[dire steppe]

RI+UC = you end the game with like 5 boons

[honest kernel]

^

[true fable]

either way i'm agreed with you that hunter's mark just skews it insanely until bosses

[honest kernel]

Even on Heroes and for EM4 adds it's great

[true fable]

i think hunter's mark is just an insanely broken boon

[honest kernel]

And Lernie too

[true fable]

and i think losing the boss damage is worth the room clear time

[dire steppe]

dark forehead being a mirror upgrade is insane tbh it makes so much difference

[mossy zinc]

It's good to have more data, yes.

[honest kernel]

But I'm actually getting Zeus scaling numbers

Like, Boon's to lvl 20 now or something lol

[true fable]

?

[honest kernel]

I'm doing a pom blossom run basically

lmao

[dire steppe]

that’s because hunters mark isn’t a concentration spell in hades :(

[true fable]

ah

[true fable]

im not saying having it is bad, im just wondering how we're to interpret it

[honest kernel]

Also

I may have found a bug

With Thunder Flourish on Zeus special

[true fable]

please share with the class

[honest kernel]

Basically : Numbers are inconsistent

During the same special

Let me make a gif real quick showing what I mean

It's wack

[mossy zinc]

You're sure it's not something like armor damage?

[honest kernel]

Nuh Nuh

Testing on Styx enemies

AKA giant rats

[mossy zinc]

First-hit damage?

[honest kernel]

Nope

Only damage boost is from Family Favorite

[dire steppe]

clearly it’s Distant Memory

[honest kernel]

And it's only the thunder effect

The base damage itself is fine

[true fable]

have you tested using ponywarriors mod on skelly?

[honest kernel]

I could do that

[dire steppe]

yeah i feel like skelly should allow you to test boon setups

[honest kernel]

https://gyazo.com/f2daebd1998502d9e4509b55a1873a3d

Thunder effect goes up and down in what damage it deals

And it's actually lower than the base damage shows

[dire steppe]

huh that is odd

[honest kernel]

https://gyazo.com/ee3daf72dd60db3feeaf26eecf130a19 You'd see values below and above this damage number

But mostly below

???

[dire steppe]

baj, they had to nerf you because you were too powerful

[honest kernel]

That doesn't change Artemis special lmao

[true fable]

that feels like an inconsistency but i'd put it in speed to see if anyone has ideas

[honest kernel]

Will do

Ohwait I don't have the role anymore

woups

Can't post it in their speedtech channel

[dire steppe]

are there other sources of dmg other than crit and zeus special that are rng

[true fable]

post it in general probably

[mossy zinc]

Might be a matter of being hit directly by the lightning bolt or by its AOE.

[honest kernel]

I'll test on a single enemy real quick

Ok on a single enemy it still does the same thing

The frick

[mossy zinc]

#h1-tech-support it is.

[honest kernel]

I'll get the single enemy clip real quick

[true fable]

that doesnt really make sense to me because the aoe for like

[mossy zinc]

Maybe it's expected behavior that we just don't know about.

[true fable]

call

is still flat damage throughout

[honest kernel]

Even on other thunder specials it doesn't fall off

And the base damage stays the same ???

[true fable]

like it does uniform dmg throughout the aoe

[honest kernel]

For the shield special itself

[true fable]

what other thunder special are you testing

[honest kernel]

I know in my Achilles special run, it acted normal, from what I saw

[true fable]

try testing with lucifer special pulses or something else with a decent rate

[tidal flame]

Average per strike is 79.4 and 92.38, respectively.

In case you are wondering

[honest kernel]

That's still lower than the base value from the special, at 105

What the frick

[mossy zinc]

Does it do that at Lv.1?

[honest kernel]

I could try that out

But first, let me finish that run and make the gif on one enemy

[tidal flame]

Technically the 92.38 is within the range for dumb luck.

But 79.4 is very low yeah.

[honest kernel]

https://gyazo.com/568008260264717a82d6250f00efa8a6

Like what's going on here

You can see the special hits for 34 without an issue

It's with the lightning itself

[tidal flame]

Can you do that but with less pomed special?

[honest kernel]

SoonTM

[tidal flame]

I suspect foul play in the poms scaling, not the damage itself.

[honest kernel]

Could be

[true fable]

why would the pom scaling be bugged in a non-uniform way though

[mossy zinc]

Poms have done weird things to boons before.

[true fable]

fair

this has blinding flash written all over it

that one was quite funny LOL

bring it back

[mossy zinc]

Crit boons got crit chance from poms for awhile.

[honest kernel]

Actually

Let me check without Family Favourite

[mossy zinc]

You think maybe Family Favorite is bugged?

Maybe someone in the family can't make up their mind.

[true fable]

do it mirrorless to avoid any other confounders

[honest kernel]

Well as long as I don't cast I don't have any other damage value

and as far as I am aware, backstabs don't do anything

[true fable]

hmm ok

let me try some of this

also

[honest kernel]

Alright, so level 1 is fine

[true fable]

what was the bouldy bonus baj

[honest kernel]

Wait I got out of the run already

I think it was cast damage

[tidal flame]

It would be hilarious if Bouldy ambiguity actually decreases your damage.

[true fable]

LOL

[gentle bridge]

what DOES bouldy ambiguity do?

[shy gulch]

man

i did arthur 32 heat and it just felt so clunky and weird to use

is this how ppl feel using rama for the first time

[main delta]

arthur is my worst weapon im so bad at it

[tidal flame]

yeah, except Rama gets +60% damage and x3 or x2 damage with hammer

[honest kernel]

Level 7 Special in Tartarus

That was quick

[mossy zinc]

Nothing.

[gentle bridge]

oh.

[true fable]

my level 3 is behaving as expected