#h1-high-heat-strategies

1 messages · Page 173 of 1

true fable
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LOL

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you've all been outdone

tiny kiln
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You dont have to babysit theseus to make sure he isnt hitting you from offscreen

honest kernel
true fable
honest kernel
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oh snap

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You actually pulled out the 40 heat supersoaker

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lmao

true fable
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who cares about arthur dude

formal gust
honest kernel
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Post that in the Speedrunning Discord

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They'll love it

true fable
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i was so scared

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i didnt get sea storm until STYX

honest kernel
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Bruh

tiny kiln
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So, now that im looking at it, maybe tight deadline would be good to get used to

honest kernel
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Tight Deadline 1 to start with is good

tiny kiln
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My runs are already under that limit

honest kernel
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And consider Middle Management

true fable
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TD2 is 28 minutes

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so that's also fairly doable

tiny kiln
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Middle management? I havent unlocked that one yet

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Nvm im blind lol

honest kernel
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But, I'll preface this

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Calisthenics Program is likely one of the harsher pact modifiers out there

tiny kiln
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Wat

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Ive been having awesome runs with it on 2 already

honest kernel
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It makes boss fights and later act rooms SO much more longer than they need to

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On it's own, it's ok

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But as you get higher and higher, it becomes a detriment

tiny kiln
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Well, maybe ive just been using arthur well enough to not notice it since you melt most enemies with a few buffs

honest kernel
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Arthur hits hard enough to get away with it, yeah

mortal mango
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mechanics question, how does replacing boons work? it seems to increase rarity by 1 but does it decrease the chance of it happening? I grabbed an epic dash to replace with athena later and rolled a bunch but it just hasn't shown up. I'm really curious what the boon distributions look like, is there any info on this?

true fable
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it's a random 10% chance i believe but i could be wrong

honest kernel
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^ that or lower

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It's a bit rarer than say getting a regular boon

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If you got your core boon slotted in already (Like your epic dash in your exemple), seeing the Athena Dash would be very unlikely

mortal mango
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are all elligble boons the same odds? like same chance to get an attack boon as some random secondary one?

sly remnant
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Bruh pulling out the 40 soaker I'm so happy for you congrats @true fable

honest kernel
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So it's like

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If you have a free slot open in the attack, special, dash or cast, the game'll give you one of these, and roll randomly.

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Some boons, like Blinding Flash and Jolted, have an increased chance of appearing

true fable
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thanks man LOL

honest kernel
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They'll often be status related

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Some boons need pre-requisite boons before they can show up

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Even if they aren't Legendary or Duos

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And to top it all off, it gets a bit weird with rolls

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Basically throws some of the rules away as far as "guaranteed priority boon" goes

mortal mango
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yeah I check the menu often when doing a run. I mostly play eris so I know to go pp for supporting fire bc its still does something and qualifies me

honest kernel
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To make it short : The game will try to fill in your Attack, Special, Cast and Dash, as well as make it more likely to give you Status-related Boons

mortal mango
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thats super helpful thanks

true fable
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wait i didnt know that about status boons

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is that why T2s feel much rarer?

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or other T2's i guess

honest kernel
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Yeah

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That's why Razor Shoals appears so much more often then Breaking Wave lmao

true fable
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yeahhh

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or jolted > double strike

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does it even out once you fill out the status or is it still a thing

honest kernel
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I think Hunter's Mark is in that rule

true fable
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like is it only 1 core slot

honest kernel
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And thankfully, it's fantastic

true fable
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or 1 T2 slot i mean

honest kernel
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It'll still try to fill in the cose slot boon, but I think everything else is as likely otherwise

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This is as far as I know the rules of boon RNG

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Legendaries and Duos obviously have their own % chance of appearing

tiny kiln
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Oh... i didnt think that the time rolled over between floors

honest kernel
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It used to not do that

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But now it does

tiny kiln
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Cool

mortal mango
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well hades is dead again. shield spent more time following me around than hitting enemies definitely need to work on it

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butt ill take the dub

honest kernel
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Takes some time to get used to it

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But grats on your win

tiny kiln
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Correct me if im wrong, but iframes are towards the end of the dodge right?

honest kernel
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Around the middle

formal gust
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Take Athena and it is the entire dodge

honest kernel
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You have a very small blindspot in the beginning

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And it wears off near the end

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Also if you dash attack on some weapons the I-frames are gone the moment you press attack

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I think Spear doesn't get this treatment

formal gust
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Athena start on Arthur is pretty nice

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Attack is pretty okay damage

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Dash is great obviously

honest kernel
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Phalanx Shot is honestly kinda good

formal gust
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Yeah

honest kernel
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For Arthur's playstyle

formal gust
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You can use it as a flying thing that deletes stuff

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Well, deflects them

true fable
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i like divine flourish tbh

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but what do i know i lost 🤣

formal gust
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Sort of like using guan yu spin with Athena attack

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Did tou get to hades

true fable
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yeah i just literally threw the hardest ive thrown a fight

formal gust
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That’s pretty good

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I’ve only gotten to elysium on 45

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But my luck with like touch of Styx

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Is horrible

true fable
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yeah i was just

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very sad i didnt finish the job

formal gust
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Also game is trolling me hard

tiny kiln
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Wow fishing also pauses the timer

daring hedge
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entire phase 2 was in TD overtime

honest kernel
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Holy

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Now that's pog

daring hedge
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AP1 of course denied both possible crystal beam duos on that run

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because of course it did

honest kernel
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Did you reset a bunch for Crystal Beam

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Or did you have another starter in mind

daring hedge
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oh i actually started with shackle because i didn't have much of a solid plan

honest kernel
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Naturally rolled into it, lmao

daring hedge
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i was trying stuff like ares and zeus keepsake on some previous attempts, and demeter showed up first thing with shackle yeah lol

honest kernel
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I actually plan on doing 50 with Zeus keepsake start

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But no cast

daring hedge
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i was maybe hoping for some lightning strike flurry jab stuff there but your idea for the special is interesting for sure

honest kernel
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I think I could go either Attack or Special

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It's mainly for DC

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After that, any cast I pick up becomes good

daring hedge
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right

honest kernel
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It's mostly to prevent timing out

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Like you almost did in that run

tiny kiln
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How do i take a screencap on pc?

honest kernel
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With Steam ?

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F11

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or F12, don't recall which one lol

daring hedge
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f12 pretty sure

tiny kiln
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Its f12

true fable
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o pog

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gz tailesque

daring hedge
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thanks!

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good sack rng saved that one

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though i maybe wouldn't have cut it quite so close if i was better at regularly boosting with special

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there were some times where i was just too busy going ham with flurry jab

true fable
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lol i feel that

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it's hard to break out of the flurry jab 3 piece so i've just been doing 2 sets of jabs and throw

honest kernel
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I use the special like a madman

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When Flurry Jab enters the equation

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Probably too much, to the point I go zooming way too far in rooms

tiny kiln
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well, i beat my first 10 heat run, cant figure out how to share a screencap for the life of me so ill take a pic with my phone

mortal mango
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how does rusk kick work with demeter fist?

tiny kiln
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Ohhhh its cause i dont have permission to attach files

daring hedge
honest kernel
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^

daring hedge
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otherwise you need to just use an external link like imgur or another discord server upload

honest kernel
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I use Gyazo to post pictures here lol

tiny kiln
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Its in the other channel

honest kernel
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Ahh, Smoldering Air

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With Zeus call too

tiny kiln
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Yup, got it right at the end

true fable
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why is zag shield so much more of a struggle than soaker

honest kernel
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Zag Shield wants specific hammers

true fable
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what happened to my play

honest kernel
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Out of like 12 lmao

true fable
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i think my brain has literally turned into water

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i can only think in body slams

tiny kiln
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BRUH THERES MORE THAN 2 LEVELS OF FATED PERSUASION WAT

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Thats so expensive

daring hedge
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F O U R

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they're worth it

honest kernel
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^

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VERY much worth

tiny kiln
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So...

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I cleared with 15minutes to spare

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Should i put another level of deadline?

honest kernel
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Not a bad idea

tiny kiln
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Another level of deadline traded for one less calisthenics

honest kernel
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Sounds good to me

honest kernel
daring hedge
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so this is the power... of drunken dash

honest kernel
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AND IT'S A 2-SACK

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Hope I don't throw against EM4 lmao

daring hedge
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let's goooo

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good luck

honest kernel
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Athena call level 2, Athena Strike level 1

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Patty buff active, full health, Broken Spearpoint for the adds

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Timer is NOT an issue

shy plinth
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GLHF

honest kernel
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PHase 2, DD down

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This is not looking good

tiny kiln
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Just beat 11 heat, 6 win streak and had almost 5 minutes to spare

honest kernel
daring hedge
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i believe

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take your time with it

honest kernel
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I GOT URNED

tiny kiln
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URN

honest kernel
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He did his laser attack

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And that one sneaky urn behind the pillar exploded and barely reached me

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BUT

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The practise in EM4 I put in ACTUALLY SHOWED

daring hedge
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even the most practiced are not immune from getting urned

honest kernel
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There was a billion other urns around me

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I thought I was barely safe

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But one was too sneaky for me

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Tooth would have done wonders for this fight I bet

daring hedge
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have you ever gotten urned by dashing back to where one blew up because it looked like the danger zone had already gone away, but it hadn't

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because... i have

honest kernel
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I have too

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And on EM4 only, for some reason

true fable
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dang that sucks

honest kernel
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For a first run, I'LL TAKE IT

true fable
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i still havent really thought about the EM4 regen urns

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after hestia 40 i have learned im quite bad at dodging

honest kernel
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...

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The more I play with it

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The more I think Zag bow might be my best weapon

true fable
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LOL

shy plinth
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What

daring hedge
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zag bow is great

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and thank you amir for the 5% crit buff

honest kernel
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Many thanks

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... Like legit

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Playing around bosses is so much easier

static plover
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that 5% boost in crit helped a lot and has given me the motivation to start pushing heat a little bittie3

honest kernel
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Is the preview bugged or what

true fable
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why hello there

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thats a large call ya got there

honest kernel
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Powershot acquired

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But I popped the tooth early to armored longspears

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I swear this weapon feels Super consistent to me

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What the frick

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Run's probably over tho lol

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I could legit just do non-EM4 and get away with it

true fable
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wait did you already do 50

honest kernel
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Nah

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I just skipped straight to 55 to see if I could get away with RI2

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And turns out, that's the case lmao

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Also it's not a 2-sack

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And timer wasn't looking good already

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sooooo likely a rip

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3-sack

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Got Artemis' smoll PP

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2 and a half minute remains

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I'd need to be on my A-game lmao

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Yeah no I'm timing out in phase 1 lmao

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52 heat it is

vital grove
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TD3 meh

honest kernel
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It's EM4 and TD3 that sucks

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With EM3 it's fine

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But TD3 still shaky on 4+ sack

honest kernel
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3 times in a row I get to Elysium at 50+ heat with Zag bow

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What is this nonsense

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... Not often do I die to the Heroes by running into Theseus

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Wasn't even the last wave, still somehow survived but the timer gets me here

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... BP rooms are much more threatening now

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Linker bloodless with the slow aura's surprisingly annoying in Asphodel

true fable
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im gonna try the drunken strike hades spear thing

vital grove
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Tried tempest hades?

true fable
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watching the korean player

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he's doing 50H achilles attempts with tidal dash start

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wait

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jk i think he does shackle start AP2 RI2 LOL

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convergent evolution

unreal pasture
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If you're doing AP2, you may as well just Shackle...

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It just feels like no god keepsake matters at that point

true fable
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could also coin purse

mossy zinc
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I'd rather have something reliable to not die to Witches.

unreal pasture
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Death is reliable

mossy zinc
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Mort to help with Witches? thanthink

rain sedge
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Unironically a good idea

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And useful for shields at Elysium too

mossy zinc
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Witches don't have anywhere near enough HP for Mort to make a difference over any other summon.

vital grove
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Yeah shackle makes sense with that

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I'd prolly do a Rama

honest kernel
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Fidi* ?

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Not joking

gaunt fiber
honest kernel
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...

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Ok did I get the companion name wrong or

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... I did

gaunt fiber
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Lmao

honest kernel
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Dusa's legendary keepsake could legit be the response here

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Since it does something for bosses as well

mossy zinc
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Yes, the legendary Feather Duster. dusa

burnt perch
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I did it, ladies and gents

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Heat 32 completed

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with Zag sword Lambent Plume build

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also gambled for a hammer at styx cuz had hoarding slash and cruel thrust, lol

gaunt fiber
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Lmao

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"What aspect should I go for 32? ... Yeah, Zag Sword!"

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Well done

prisma pebble
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damn with zag sword

burnt perch
gaunt fiber
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pretty sure it was me

burnt perch
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funny thing is that I forgot to turn off Ruthless Reflex

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from previous Gilga run

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only noticed it after run was done, lol

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did not get Rush Delivery either

unreal pasture
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Plume + Reflex are kind of nice in tandem

rain sedge
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That's unexpected

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The smoldering air probably does a ton though

gaunt fiber
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was fun run

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can't get the right hammers to full spin

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serrated with one dash is fun enough

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until hermes saved my soul in aspho

prisma pebble
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jfc

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removed all of nyx's mirror

rain sedge
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Serrated with one dash monkaGIGA

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Lord astaos is good

gaunt fiber
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only through tartarus and aspho

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I got greatest reflexes for Lernie

honest kernel
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hi, y'all happen to have any advice for a hades spear 40?

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i just cleared my first one with chiron (took me close to 20 attempts tho painpeko )

gaunt fiber
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Deadly strike, serrated point exploding launcher

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this is all I know about Hades

waxen relic
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Mini-Spins

gaunt fiber
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Yeah dash spin is quite important

waxen relic
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off of dash-strikes

honest kernel
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i just tried it out, i didn't know mini-spins were a thing

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thank you

gaunt fiber
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Spin dash is starting a spin and dashing out of it

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you keep your iframes

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a useful trick

rain sedge
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Can do the exploding launcher thing

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I think that still works at 4o

unreal pasture
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I want to see someone get the three dream hammers on GY...
Massive, Quick and Frostfare ... the spin duration extension

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I gotta think you could get like 3-4 out at a time

gaunt fiber
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winged serpent?

unreal pasture
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Yea

gaunt fiber
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I tried

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But it's hard

unreal pasture
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I don't care about unseeded, so I sometimes do all 5 rooms and re-roll the hammer each time to try to meme out hammers
It's so fun

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With the Anvil

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I guess you can only do it 4 times

gritty willow
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I have the last skelly statue to unlock, is 32 heat that hard?

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I'm around 10 skulls for my weapon clears, should I keep building up or just give 32 heat a try?

proud jay
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could go for 16 heat first

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nvm

gritty willow
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I did the 16 heat one not sure when lol

proud jay
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give 32 a try and see what you're having trouble with

gritty willow
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was probably with the op arthur sword

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I know most people keep extreme measures as a default but that is the scariest one for me

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I'll see what I can do

gaunt fiber
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EM3 as default basically

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not EM4

proud jay
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EM3 is pretty tough until you get used to it

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people recommend a range of different things for 32 heat

gritty willow
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most of my concern is with lava floor lernie

gaunt fiber
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I was the same

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you just need a bit of practice

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dw

proud jay
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you could disable heightened security

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helps a bit

gritty willow
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Any weapon recommendations?

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for begginerish players

slender spade
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wrong chat but I'd say bow, shield and spear

gaunt fiber
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play what you enjoy the most

proud jay
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sword is probably the toughest, but arthur can tank a lot of hits at 32

mossy zinc
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Not the wrong chat for weapon recommendations for 32 lol.

gritty willow
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TBH my favorite would have to be zag sword aspect with vampire hits (2hp per hit thing) but Im reckless and I rely on high HP for clears Sadge

mossy zinc
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I think Excalibur at 32 is S tier still.

proud jay
gaunt fiber
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another Zag sword

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wow

gritty willow
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holding X and healing is fun XD

proud jay
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that's two specific hammers though

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assuming that's rapid slash + cursed slash

rain sedge
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you did 16 without EM2?

gritty willow
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I probably did but it just scares me is what Im saying

proud jay
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i did my first 32 without middle management because i kept dying to power couple

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you could just avoid things you struggle with

mossy zinc
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@proud jay I'd say your 40 tier list is pretty solid as well for 32 just I'd put Excalibur higher at 32.

rain sedge
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power couple wiped me a lot in my all weapons 40

mossy zinc
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I used to avoid EM3 in most high heat runs because I died too much and didn't enjoy the fight at all.

gritty willow
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does EM change the boatmans fight?

mossy zinc
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No.

proud jay
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not sure i would recommend that fight

gritty willow
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its already hard af lol

mossy zinc
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EM1 changes boss 1, EM2 changes bosses 1 and 2, etc.

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@proud jay that was your cue to post your tier list. dusa

fathom cloud
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Am I weird for thinking power couple is easy? Or do others not burn a summon on them. Ofc I can't take anything more than 32 anyway.

mossy zinc
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Letting me down like that. squirtooh

honest kernel
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i mess up my meg with FO2 power couple

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a lot

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i think i've only done it successfully once

gritty willow
rain sedge
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the FO2 makes it hard

honest kernel
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whenever I see them, it's like

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"ah, so this is where my run ends"

fathom cloud
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Yeah, I much prefer them to the barge. I also don't use FO2 though.

gritty willow
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barge is a pain without enough damage

mossy zinc
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The "oh you dashed to avoid the Skullcrusher, let me teleport right in front of you and petrify you, so you get hit from the shockwave and die" makes it hard.

gritty willow
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IDk i think I hate the butterfly mini boss more

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Fallen heroes are not cool

mossy zinc
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Dire Soulcatcher just wastes a lot of time sometimes.

gritty willow
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Thats why I'm still kind of in a casual spot cause if I dont have enough HP and Damage I can fall at random spots Sadge

fathom cloud
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Butterfly is an insta-summon for me. I will always summon for butterfly and power couple, makes them go from dangerous to easy real quick.

rain sedge
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a fellow casual then, just like me

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well let us know how your 32 attempts go. any questions, just ask this channel

gritty willow
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Sure thank you guys for the help/ info 🙂

mossy zinc
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They're not easy. I can kill them fast more often than not, but there's always the potential for a screwup.

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MM and nothing else is easy. MM HL5 FO2 CP2 bla bla is where things get real.

fathom cloud
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Very fair points. One petrification makes it go real south.

proud jay
mossy zinc
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Thanks!

proud jay
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i would change a few things for beginners

fathom cloud
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Chaos is still S?

proud jay
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as long as you find zeus special

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or ares, i guess

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i might have a personal bias for it but it performs well

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doesn't even need hammers

mossy zinc
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This is for 40 Heat specifically from his experience streaking all aspects, so reliability is the main concern.

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It's also taking into account good pact setups, I would think.

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E.g. for Chaos, I don't think you would take TD3?

proud jay
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i'd take TD2 on everything

fathom cloud
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I havent tried Chaos since like 10 heat, maybe I should give it another shot

rugged acorn
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what do you use instead?

fathom cloud
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Beo and Zeus depending on mood

mossy zinc
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At 32, Excalibur with Weak and HL0 FO0 TD2 and no HS gives you massive eHP and safety.

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You basically have x2.4 HP in your Holy Aura with Weak applied to your enemies, and any DR or Dodge you pick up only further increases that.

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With Thick Skin and Eternal Rose in Tartarus, that means you're essentially starting your run with 357 eHP.

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And any Centaur Heart you pick up is worth 60 eHP right from the start.

proud jay
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how did you get to 357?

mossy zinc
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150 / (.7 * .6) = 357

proud jay
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that's not the math afaik

mossy zinc
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70% damage taken with Weak and 60% damage taken with Holy Aura.

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It is, though. thanthink

fathom cloud
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It would seem kind of broken if weak and aura were additive... surely they're not?

gaunt fiber
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it's not additive

mossy zinc
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They're not additive.

gaunt fiber
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math seems correct

proud jay
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somehow i thought the result is much worse

mossy zinc
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It gets way better the more DR you get. 10% Dodge from common Greater Evasion already brings that up to 397 eHP.

proud jay
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isn't dodge kinda worse once you get DR

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still not saying it's bad

mossy zinc
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No, it's even better if you have any DR.

formal gust
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what do you guys think of earring at high heat

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seems really good since SD is going to put you at pretty low hp

proud jay
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good if you need the damage to not die to TD

mossy zinc
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Baj takes that when he needs damage.

formal gust
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but once you have touch of styx

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yeah it's a little harder to get in that range

proud jay
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i've used it in 40 heat streak when i rolled with TD3

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kinda depends on your build too i guess. +40% is good if you can scale it with crit or base damage hammers

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but can be lackluster on, say, hades spear

formal gust
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in other news 45 heat arthur is kind of a nightmare but I want to do it

mossy zinc
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In my experience, you can completely dodge FO2 if you take RI3. squirtnya

formal gust
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no thanks

gaunt fiber
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there is no "no thanks"

mossy zinc
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Not even giving it a chance.

formal gust
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oh i thought you were talking about

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something else

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nvm

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I got to asterius with it

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32 mirrorless

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had quick and massive

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no extra dash

mossy zinc
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Just get Tempest Strike for 32 mirrorless Guan Yu.

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It's the new meta.

formal gust
mossy zinc
formal gust
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just because you can, does not ean you should

rain sedge
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we need like

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to revive the monthly challenge

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the one that astaos tagged isnt updated since july

edgy arrow
#

okay let’s do it

mossy zinc
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Me and Peach and Swan used to come up with stupid fun challenges before Peach made the more official "Peachy Challenges". But I think I've past the point where most people would want to do my challenges. squirtooh

edgy arrow
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this month’s challenge: mirrorless 32 GY

mossy zinc
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32 mirrorless Guan Yu with Tempest Strike and LC4.

edgy arrow
#

seems fair

gaunt fiber
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done squirtyay

mossy zinc
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First. squirtnya

edgy arrow
#

look it’s catching on

#

these folks so keen they did it before it was even announced

gaunt fiber
#

I'll do challenges tho

#

I've done Peach ones

#

they're really good

fathom cloud
#

Huh I just noticed we can't post images here?

mossy zinc
#

I can come up with challenges. I just don't care to be the one to add them to a spreadsheet, but—actually, we could do another spreadsheet with submission forms specifically for more casual challenge runs? That would also let us add @pastel badge's Diogenes challenge, and we would just add a new tab any time we add a new challenge. thanthink

@shy plinth do you think something like that is possible without too much work? Since we already have a template.

mossy zinc
fathom cloud
mossy zinc
#

Not quite such a tidy curve in Hades because different instances of DR aren't additive. But any point of DR or Dodge you add is worth more than the previous one.

#

This curve would be true for Dodge chance because it's additive, and it very kindly goes up to 100% Dodge chance. squirtnya

#

Which makes you INVINCIBLE! dusa

pastel badge
#

I have the 1, and another i'm releasing in like 6 weeks

proud jay
#

6 weeks is oddly specific

edgy arrow
#

i love that you have a schedule for this

mossy zinc
#

We were talking about the "Weekly Challenges" and some way to revive something like that.

#

Although I think bi-weekly or monthly would be better, anyway.

edgy arrow
#

fr tho i’d be down for challenges coming back in some form

gaunt fiber
#

daily challenge

edgy arrow
#

it’s entirely possible that any challenge nyaanyaa comes up with would be beyond me tho lol

lusty mirage
#

how about EM4 AP2 challenge? only 15 heat 😛

gaunt fiber
#

I think challenges must be fun

edgy arrow
#

sounds easier than EM4 FO2 tbh

#

at least if you grind it a bit

mossy zinc
#

It does sound easier than EM4 FO2 lol.

#

Maybe we would do a "hard mode" option for the vets for each challenge.

#

Since the challenges are supposed to be accessible.

edgy arrow
#

yeah that’s a good idea

mossy zinc
#

But the "hard mode" option would make the challenge more interesting for vets.

lusty mirage
#

FO could be used for a tier system, or RI

edgy arrow
#

because 1) i wanna participate, but 2) i wanna see real players do crazy stuff

mossy zinc
#

Nah, m thinking more interesting things than just slapping on FO or RI. squirtdevious

lusty mirage
#

i'm all for interesting, accessible, and fun

#

fun is about point of view and goals - one person might find AP2 fun and another hate it with a passion though

proud jay
#

real real challenges would include mod work

edgy arrow
#

ye but “fake” real challenges would still be fun

lusty mirage
#

so the fun part of challenges is coming up with them and playing them, but the logistics of keeping track of them is boring, right?

edgy arrow
#

i think the reason they stopped wasn’t because of logistics

#

they just ran out of ideas or something

#

which is fair, i doubt i could come up with something interesting every week for very long

mossy zinc
#

I'll wait to hear back from RidiculousHat for how much work a spreadsheet + form for that.

lusty mirage
#

there are a lot more people playing since 1.0, the ideas should be easy to crowd-source

mossy zinc
#

That's also why I think bi-weekly or monthly would be better, yeah. Would also give each challenge a bit more time to shine.

#

I dunno, I don't have a problem coming up with challenges lol.

gaunt fiber
#

I got pink challenges vibes

formal gust
#

another 46 hestia attempt killed by the blue heart benefits package

proud jay
#

could hold attack button

formal gust
#

wasn't enough

mossy zinc
#

Clearly, you needed Lightning Strike.

proud jay
#

a non hunter dash dash is also helpful

formal gust
#

had passion dash

mossy zinc
#

That's the best Dash.

#

I sold Divine Dash today so I could keep Heartbreak Strike. squirtnya

formal gust
#

and now I died to a bunch of skulls with like 4 hearts each

mossy zinc
#

Unfortunate.

proud jay
#

most unfortunate

gaunt fiber
#

You must have done something bad lately

mossy zinc
#

They saved you. They brought you back home. squirtnya

formal gust
#

I am really questioning how I got to styx with this one

mossy zinc
#

You didn't run into Saviors, apparently.

formal gust
#

to whoever said hestia was fun but also boring to grind, you are very correct

proud jay
#

you're safe most of the time

mossy zinc
#

I said that, yeah.

#

It's fun but eventually very repetitive.

#

I should try it on KBM sometime without aim assist.

rain sedge
#

hestia
fun
thanthink

mossy zinc
#

New high heat challenge: use a lot of sweet paprika for your food, then find out it was hot paprika. shadegrief

gaunt fiber
#

Eris player btw

formal gust
#

died to asterius again

#

sorry I mean

#

heroes

mossy zinc
#

m dying to my dinner.

tidal flame
#

Lol

pastel badge
lusty mirage
#

haelian on trying to do 58 heat

ripe crane
#

Why do some people turn into chariots when they die

gaunt fiber
#

they were bad persons

rain sedge
#

I feel like nya is the chariot type

#

charging at people relentlessly

#

I'm a bit more of a purple thrower myself

mossy zinc
#

m a witch. squirtnya

honest kernel
olive pier
#

any tips for beating a 32 heat run? 😬

waxen relic
#

many

#

use a weapon you like, don't use RI, EM4, AP2

#

would be the short version

olive pier
#

i was using chiron bow because i heard it was good

#

although i really enjoy zeus shield

#

i'll try using that next

rain sedge
#

@olive pier there u go

olive pier
#

thx i'll read it

#

damn its really hard to understand the pact stuff because my game is in spanish xd

onyx venture
#

If you check the pinned messages, there's a post that gives the full names and abbreviations used

#

That might help you

olive pier
#

alright

onyx venture
#

It also lists them in the same order they appear on the Pact screen, which is helpful for different languages

olive pier
#

i don't think i can manage using tight deadline 3

solemn pulsar
#

Dang just did like 10 50 heat hestia runs, got to hades on the last one and choked towards the end of phase 2. Had plenty of time left too

olive pier
#

this 32 heat challenge is gonna be hard, but i like hard challenges

gaunt fiber
#

Me : trying to play other aspects than GY

#

the game :

rain sedge
#

TD3 is harder on chiron if it's your first time

true fable
#

whats the challenge?

gaunt fiber
#

Challenge?

true fable
#

someone said something about bringing back weeklies?

rain sedge
#

I think it's monthlies or biweeklies

gaunt fiber
#

Yeah I was doing some of them so Schad wanted them back

lusty mirage
#

let's bring em back yeah

shy plinth
#

Ooh challenge runs? Yeah absolutely, that's not too hard

north dove
honest kernel
#

bruh

mossy zinc
#

That's why you didn't make it. squirtnya

lusty mirage
#

if @shy plinth is coordinating maybe it should live on the Hidden Aspects podcast discord

shy plinth
#

I appreciate the shout out but there are a lot more challenge runners here

#

And Nyaa and Tail will be adding the actual challenges I'm sure

mossy zinc
#

Tailesque runs challenges but doesn't really come up with them. Aside from the obvious higher heat than anybody ever before or higher heat faster than anybody ever before lol.

rain sedge
#

RI3 EM4 though....

dire steppe
#

finally some appreciation for TD2

honest kernel
#

Hold my SPEEN shield real quick

north dove
rain sedge
#

oh great lord this is scarily close

#

you streaming retrash?

north dove
#

also after party and rare crop in styx... game is BMing me

#

nope but I'm recording these

rain sedge
#

if you get 58 one of us can photoshop a crown on top of your avatar

#

good luck!

#

How close was that at EM4? which phase?

north dove
#

phase 2

#

couldn't outdamage his healing

rain sedge
#

with shield, if you bullrush through the shield, it doesnt damage you right?

#

might be a good way to clear multiple shields at once?

#

especially with the zeus special

north dove
#

yeah but stepping on a pot is pretty much a RIP

#

so that's super risky

true fable
#

im interested by how the pots interact with bull rush actually

#

because ive bullrushed through pot radii without issues before

zenith hound
#

i finally beat 32 heat with ||beowulf|| shield - my RNG was rough so i didnt do a lot of damage LOL i just lasted long enough to beat him but phew that was painful cry

after a few miserable attempts, i just avoided doing "tight deadline, lasting consequences, underworld customs, forced overtime, heightened security, and routine inspection" all together

#

so i just did all the other ones

rain sedge
#

congrats!

#

bright and tyler welcomes you to the beowulf cult

waxen relic
zenith hound
#

i'll pull it up :3

true fable
#

congrats berkeley time!

#

good thing you learned the RI lesson early

daring hedge
rain sedge
#

tailesque'ed

#

did someone clip that haelian clip about tail

zenith hound
#

i couldnt get a double status proc so i legit just did peanut damage the whole game LOL

rain sedge
#

these are the wildest 32 pact I've seen

#

this might be wilder than the zag sword one

waxen relic
#

goes to show how much 32 heat is customizable

rain sedge
#

this looks like something out of nya troll post

edgy arrow
#

beowulf best weapon confirmed

mossy zinc
#

@daring hedge congratulations on dying to Hades. Well done.

daring hedge
#

thank you thank you

#

his summons deserve some credit too

mossy zinc
#

No one will remember that run, but good job almost-winning.

daring hedge
#

@north dove are you still going with coin purse from the start with zeus shield? or shackle

north dove
#

Shackle, but I'm unsure how effective it is really

#

Coin purse isn't worth much on RI2+ since you won't have enough money for the first midshop even with it

gaunt fiber
north dove
#

big oof

daring hedge
gaunt fiber
#

Could have first try hestia 40

#

but

#

yeah

#

I'm bad at clearing rooms with it

north dove
#

wonder which is easier between JS3 CP1 or JS2 CP2

#

for 58

ripe crane
#

Shield damage feels kinda low, CP2 bosses would take forever?

daring hedge
#

i wanna say potentially JS2 CP2 just because you can sometimes avoid an extra wave spawning in due to a JS threshold

north dove
#

I'm losing a lot of time to wave spawns yeah

lusty mirage
honest kernel
#

Everyone after the throne all of a sudden

#

help

gaunt fiber
#

You'll take it back if necessary

#

dw

mossy zinc
#

Just work on 59 while they're all focused on 58. squirtdevious

proud jay
#

there's a 50 heat eris run that starts with artemis keepsake and picks up hunter dash in chamber 1

true fable
#

??

#

oh is it hades3234

rain sedge
proud jay
gaunt fiber
#

Ok I found a way to clear room with Hestia

#

it's dying lament

true fable
#

yeah he does ap2ri2 shackle for speed

#

idk how effective it is

rain sedge
#

dying lament was really good at my high heat clears

#

it's surprisingly a lot of damage and EHP

#

I really like it

true fable
#

dying lament is sick

mossy zinc
#

Of course. Lady Aphrodite has all the best boons.

gaunt fiber
#

Oh

#

there's a quote at Theseus fight if you hold a Yarn of Ariadne

proud jay
#

they really thought of everything

gaunt fiber
#

almost 300hours in, getting new stuff

#

pog

onyx venture
#

If memory serves there's more than one conversation about the Yarn, too

true fable
#

i think dio also talks abt it

gaunt fiber
#

And there's a quote when you die

#

nice

proud jay
#

how do you know

#

oh, right

gaunt fiber
#

lmao

#

3 crits in a row vs Meg

#

funny weapon

#

But is deadly strike non optimal for an unlucky guy?

rain sedge
#

I wanna see if there's a way to load all the audio files

gaunt fiber
#

Zag death sounds as an alarm clock

#

not a bad idea

true fable
#

5 sacked twice today on arthur 40

sly remnant
#

fun game 🙂

gaunt fiber
#

wow

#

5 sack gang

#

nice

formal gust
#

asterius is the worst man

#

got to asterius on arthur 45, lost stubborn and an athena DD

upper edge
#

Twice

formal gust
#

probably just not being patient enough

gaunt fiber
#

After trying other aspects

#

I realized that EM3 is tough actually

sly remnant
#

*EM3 asterios is tough

formal gust
#

does asterius miniboss get his em3 moveset from middle management or em3 itself

#

I always have both on at the same time so

sly remnant
#

EM3

honest kernel
#

^

sly remnant
#

think about it. MM doesn't change tiny rat

ripe crane
#

but it should

tidal flame
#

should it?

sly remnant
#

no

#

tiny rat is cursed

rain sedge
true fable
#

yeah i mustve just picked the wrong one

proud jay
#

more specifically the rng roll at the end of the tunnel

true fable
#

forgot to spin around backwards twice cast to the left and sacrifice a goat to get all the right rng uses

rain sedge
#

Hmm. Perhaps you should consider the age old nya advice

#

Or idkkkkkkkk

#

Mmmaaayybe we can just ping amir everytime a run gets ruined by sac to show him it's a bad mechanic

#

Actually a casual such as I shouldn't be this salty, must be the drinks

#

Night friends

#

Ping me when a new king is throned

sly remnant
#

sac mechanic at high heat is toxic it just is

upper edge
#

Game cant be balanced solely around very high heat man

formal gust
#

as a speedrunner as well I hate it more than you do

sly remnant
#

no it shouldn't

#

sac mechanic is fine at low-mid heat

#

that doesn't change the fact that its toxic at high heat

#

the two things are not mutually exclusive things

gaunt fiber
#

5sack crushed my dreams

#

But I know there will be another run

true fable
#

i just got the last contractor rank

#

maybe ive played this game too much

upper edge
#

Having variance in a hard game is hardly what I'd call "toxic", though.

gaunt fiber
true fable
#

unseen one?

#

i think?

gaunt fiber
#

idk if I'm far away

#

lmao

#

I'm super far away

sly remnant
#

as it severely gimps a lot of aspects at higher heat

upper edge
#

But you just said that turning TD down is a choice, so.... it kinda is totally in your control? Running TD3 means knowingly, consciously deciding that a percentage of runs go in the garbage bin

gaunt fiber
#

I got Nyaanyaa's flashback

sly remnant
gaunt fiber
#

You think it flattens the differences

#

I think some aspects just die lol

sly remnant
#

^that too

gaunt fiber
#

I mean

upper edge
#

You're vastly overestimating the importance of "meta" at very high heats

gaunt fiber
#

I like GY

sly remnant
#

look whether you like it or not there is a meta

gaunt fiber
#

But it's not gonna hit 63

upper edge
daring hedge
#

to be fair, with the extremely limited choice of pacts you get at that level of heat, it's not like the game can help but only have a few core configurations

#

we're just kind of picking and choosing from the cores that aren't just going to be near impossible (RI4)

sly remnant
sly remnant
#

you can leave the sac mechanic as it is and have exceptions jusst like survival rooms

tidal flame
#

sure which is a problem with the pact.
Be me
Buy a used Honda Civic
Try to do a 0 - 100 in 3s
Car broke
Damn, must be a problem with the car ron

sly remnant
#

i beat 50 heat bro

tidal flame
#

Then nice!

sly remnant
#

this idea that someone can't talk about meta because they haven't achieved something is toxic too

#

whether we like it or not the pact has a bias

tidal flame
#

I think you misunderstood what I typed

gaunt fiber
#

Nah

sly remnant
#

some people are okay with the meta

#

some are not

#

i am not and will bring up the issue

gaunt fiber
#

There are some people with a brain that don't clear high heat

sly remnant
#

because i think its important

gaunt fiber
#

and the opposite

sly remnant
tidal flame
#

No, it means the pact wasn't designed to go 0 - 100 aka be done at 50+ heat

#

It can be done

#

But it wasn't designed to

#

that's the point, no blaming involved.

sly remnant
#

i mean if you build it they will come

#

they saw how people pushed in early access

tidal flame
#

elaborate?

#

the extra heat was planned before high heat attempts was a thing

upper edge
tidal flame
#

EM4 was on the roadmap since forever

#

As for the TD3 change, sure, it was changed likely based on community feedback, but not so that you can have more heat, just for balance wise.

#

I mean it's fine that you voice your concerns and feedbacks

gaunt fiber
#

You want extreme high heat to be done consistently by any aspect with build variety?

tidal flame
#

that's what this channel is for, but obviously other people will also chime in with their viewpoints.

sly remnant
sly remnant
gaunt fiber
#

Hm

#

Ok

sly remnant
#

and that doesn't mean boons

gaunt fiber
#

well ofc

tidal flame
#

how is sack involved with build variety? we are all over the place here

gaunt fiber
#

since you don't get boons

sly remnant
#

EM4 and TD3 both promote understanding of build and playstyle. they are a reward for mastering an aspect.

much of the pact is reliant on taking things away from its players. which makes self-sufficient weapons more meta

#

however self-sufficient weapons (in general) do not have the same speed that boon reliant weapons do.

#

however with TD2 you can stick standalone value boons on any aspect and make it go. it flattens the differences between weapons

#

in layman's terms

#

hades needs more exodia and less blue eyes white dragon

upper edge
#

.....Exodia is the high variance one. Did you mix those up?

sly remnant
#

it is

tidal flame
#

semantics xD

#

the point is clear, ig

#

(to 4th Queen)

sly remnant
#

it doesn't help that the 2 pacts that promote understanding of build and playstyle are in direct contradiction with each other

#

i'm fine with it, but it is a problem that is there

gaunt fiber
#

So your problem is that the game is not balanced around high heat?

sly remnant
#

not necessarily

tidal flame
#

however with TD2 you can stick standalone value boons on any aspect and make it go. it flattens the differences between weapons
isn't this a good thing? that every weapon is capable of clearing high heat with TD2 on as a sacrifice?

mossy zinc
#

The pact isn't gonna get any major rework at this point.

sly remnant
#

i know it isn't

gaunt fiber
#

God bless TD2

sly remnant
tidal flame
#

Modding is a thing. Afaik some people are considering reworking some stuff

#

By some people I mean people in the speedrun discord

#

it just shouldn't be the overwhelming correct choice
yeah, I have to disagree with this.

#

Tail takes Rama on TD3 like walk in the park

sly remnant
sly remnant
#

tailesque also intimately understands his aspect

#

he's an incredible player

#

and he is rewarded for it

upper edge
tidal flame
#

honestly, I think there are rooms in the game to "cater" to high heat specific runs, e.g. make it more forgiving, make 2 sack consistent, etc.
if the devs really want to, I am sure they can "help" high heat runs out.
but this begs the question, shouldn't high heat run adapt to high heat conditions, not vice versa?

sly remnant
mossy zinc
#

2 or 3 sack is already very likely.

true fable
#

we've been over this before and i think the 'issue' is that things with very good standalone value/base kits will always thrive at 50+

mossy zinc
#

If some heats feel like they require that you're blessed by the gods to make it, that . . . fits the game perfectly.

tidal flame
#

like let's be real, SGG changing 2 sacks or 3 sacks would go over 90% of players' head.

true fable
#

i dont think it's an issue personally, just means that certain weapons are better for it than others

sly remnant
#

i'm not asking for a rework of the pact

upper edge
true fable
#

rama/hades/zeus all have fantastic kits already with no boons

sly remnant
#

a small numbers adjustment would allow for a little bit more diversity without affecting things overall

mossy zinc
#

What numbers?

sly remnant
#

make EM4 and/or TD3 worth more. or make AP2/RI worth less

tidal flame
sly remnant
#

UC and CF have problems too, but i'm mostly okay with them

mossy zinc
#

RI worth less? lol

tidal flame
true fable
#

right what i'm getting at is that if boons are required your weapon will suffer at 50+

tidal flame
#

This is such an artificial inflation of heat.

gaunt fiber
#

RI is not worth much lol

mossy zinc
#

That's like the opposite of any comment I've ever seen about RI.

#

50 heat and 50 heat don't need to be equal. That's fine.

tidal flame
sly remnant
#

the problem is it adversely affects aspects that can afford to take RI more easily

#

reward aspects that can't take RI as easily with something else

#

the pact rewards ONE type of playstyle/weapon. it just does

gaunt fiber
#

Fine by me honestly

sly remnant
true fable
#

yeah i dont think it's a bad thing that not all weapons can do 50+ heat comfortably

upper edge
#

Wanting aspects to play more similarly to eachother kind of goes against the design of having aspects in the first place

gaunt fiber
#

Yeah

sly remnant
tidal flame
# sly remnant the pact rewards ONE type of playstyle/weapon. it just does

Yeah, but for absurdly high heat.
Again, the pact isn't designed for this.
It is obvious that the pact wasn't meant to add up to more than 32 heat.
The in game achievements, Skelly prize, Zag commenting you won't get anything extra out of doing high heat runs make it clear.
Pact of Punishment isn't meant for high heat.

#

Stop using it wrong and blame the design

daring hedge
#

it's still feasible to do 50 heat TD3 with an aspect pretty much all high heat players consider to be terrible e.g. Zag Spear

#

which is what i did

gaunt fiber
#

I want a pact per aspect with different numbers. Thanks

sly remnant
#

look i understand i'm in the minority. most of the people in this channel will disagree which is why they are in this channel

true fable
#

someone correct me if i'm wrong but didn't the devs say that they just designed most aspects to be able to clear 40?

#

like they didn't expect 50+ to be like the "norm" or the barometer by any means

daring hedge
#

Amir has said in the past something along the lines of wanting all aspects capable of doing 40 heat as a baseline and he would be happy

sly remnant
mossy zinc
#

There's general high heat WR and then there are the WRs for each aspect. You can go for either. If your aspect of choice doesn't seem competitive for general high heat, you can still try to push it as high as it goes.

daring hedge
#

and genuinely did not know if all could do 50

true fable
#

also i'm down to 10 aspects left for 24 x40 and they're all completely awful aspects lol

#

how do you play zag spear i havent figured it out

#

also i'm sorry i have decided

#

i do not like hades spear

cedar thistle
#

find flurry i guess? 😛

true fable
#

not for me

cedar thistle
#

or exploding pew pew

daring hedge
#

i tried hades spear briefly on kbm and i can honestly see why if you still use that for it

#

felt terrible

mossy zinc
#

Exploding Launcher, Flurry Jab, ME. Any of those should do work.

tidal flame
#

Any of those should do work.
What if you have those but can't git gud?

daring hedge
#

yeah flurry jab, exploding launcher, and serrated point to a slightly lesser extent are the zag spear hammers you want

true fable
#

is it better on controller?

mossy zinc
daring hedge
#

i'm biased as a controller player but yes absolutely

#

the spin dashing and stringing it into other things feels very natural and easy to pull off

true fable
#

it feels ok-ish? my damage always feels terrible in elysium

sly remnant
#

i mean thats kind of spear lol

#

outside of hades

daring hedge
#

hades does kind of have a problem of being just average without exploding launcher or serrated point

#

i try to take deadly strike with it overall, as it can work fine if you don't get those

#

or shackle, even. it's a good shackle weapon

tidal flame
#

I think Hunter Dash nerf hurts Hades Spear by a decent amount for me.

#

Enemies just feel extra chunky.

true fable
#

i was doing some drunken strike stuff and it uh

#

didnt feel good

#

haha

#

tidal dash gilga feels pretty nice though

daring hedge
#

i think it's kind of telling how the two non-hidden non-zag spear aspects have perks that are very similar in the sense that you get to fix your abysmal damage for a short period of time

sly remnant
true fable
#

i have 3 spears left

#

every other weapon has 1-2 aspects at most

#

needless to say spear is probably my worst weapon

upper edge
#

Spear is probably (...) worst weapon

tidal flame
#

After Retrash Zag Sword clear. I am afraid of calling anything bad.

gaunt fiber
#

Hades is amazing tho

tidal flame
#

Samething with Repulse Shot.

rough patrol
#

I’m not to high heat yet but spear is the weapon I use most consistently

#

It could just be a case of new player picking up the game and just choosing a weapon though

sly remnant
#

bro if you like spear play spear

gaunt fiber
#

I think you can clear with bad things

#

And they're still bad lol

daring hedge
#

i've cleared at least 50 with all spears

#

they're not considered the best but i like them

gaunt fiber
#

Except for tempest strike Guan Yu which is meta now

gaunt fiber
daring hedge
#

what do you mean lol

#

exploding launcher?

gaunt fiber
#

Exploding charged skewer Heart rend

daring hedge
#

nice

gaunt fiber
#

The weapon is so consistent it feels nice

true fable
#

deadly flourish?

edgy arrow
#

i used to like spears, but now i just can’t win with them lol

gaunt fiber
#

Nope, Heartbreak

edgy arrow
#

like, what’s the meta build for zag spear even

gaunt fiber
#

I was actually trying to learn Hades, not to play GY

true fable
#

same i cannot do it

#

ive only done 40+ with achilles

proud jay
#

i keep throwing 50+ runs to EM4

#

i catch the spear in phase 3 way too often

gaunt fiber
#

It's quick

true fable
#

do you brightness strat it?

edgy arrow
#

that spear on FO2 is absurdly fast lol

upper edge
gaunt fiber
#

But deflecting it

#

It's fun

edgy arrow
#

the brightness strat is allowed, but you gotta turn your brightness down for the rest of the game to make up

gaunt fiber
#

No need to use it if you don't make it to phase 3

upper edge
#

Blindfolded Hades run when

true fable
edgy arrow
#

EM4 is free heat if you die in tartarus tbh

gaunt fiber
#

63 heat Tartarus%

tidal flame
#

hey that's my specialty

gaunt fiber
#

Ain't stealing it no worries

#

Mine is tartarus%

true fable
#

aight gilga aint it

#

how do you build zag bow

sly remnant
#

p sure you just stack damage on attack and power shot

daring hedge
#

yeah pretty much

#

go for the good attack hammers, get deadly strike, decent rarity heartbreak, or shackle

sly remnant
#

the weapon doesn't love JS so skip that if you can

daring hedge
#

DC is a huge pain and can sometimes make you just throw out specials to strip hearts, which takes time

sly remnant
#

(beyond like JS1, JS1 is fine)

true fable
#

hmm

sly remnant
#

at 40 heat you can probably take Ap1 on the weapon. its fine

true fable
#

i think i might do CF2 JS1 then?

sly remnant
#

ye

#

i think so

#

weapon doesn't need much

true fable
#

dang

#

this is kinda boring ngl

sly remnant
#

welcome to zag bow

honest kernel
#

Alright what did I miss

true fable
#

i might be doing merciful end zag bow

sly remnant
#

i complained about the pact like i always do

#

most people disagreed with me and we had the same old arguments

proud jay
#

TD2 good

sly remnant
#

^this is basically what i was mad about

proud jay
#

anyway we all know the pact isn't great for 50+ runs

#

TD2 at least allows every aspect to have a reasonable chance at it

mossy zinc
#

I like TD2 now a lot more than how it was in Early Access. I wasn't fond of the change at first because I only looked at EA TD2 vs 1.0 TD3.

sly remnant
#

ye TD2 op

proud jay
#

TD3+JS3 is just kinda greedy in first place

sly remnant
#

yea what pacts actually works with TD3

#

EM2?

honest kernel
#

... Nobody look at my 45 Arthur run LOL

#

But yeah, you are asking to get Sack RNG'ed

#

Or even room RNG'ed in Tartarus

mossy zinc
honest kernel
#

^ It's free real Heat-state

daring hedge
#

[looks at my zag spear 50 pact setup] ... ron

sly remnant
#

[or my 50 beo pact setup]

proud jay
#

free rooms to the rescue

sly remnant
#

^the problem with high-heat hades speedruns

#

its a problem at any heat but its worse at high heat

daring hedge
dapper quiver
#

What's the easiest pact conditions for a 32 heat clear?

proud jay
#

allows you to go for TD3

daring hedge
#

i mean, sure i guess

proud jay
#

maybe not the all-in CP2 setup

daring hedge
#

but TD3 can be done without a majority of the free rooms

sly remnant
honest kernel
#

^^^^^^

proud jay
#

even depending on enemies

sly remnant
#

witches 😠

true fable
#

when you walk into room 12 and its all unarmored witches and numbskulls

#

just give up lol

daring hedge
#

i think my literal only free rooms in my zag spear TD3 were a chaos or two and patty

#

that was kind of it