h1-high-heat-strategies

[cinder cave]

Gratz!

17:37 amazing

How much did you use Ares Aid

[misty hamlet]

not featured is a billowing strength, so a lot 😄

[honest kernel]

.... SAME THING

[misty hamlet]

but tbh it did quite a bit of work for me in numerous places in elysium

[honest kernel]

2 hits from the hydra

[north dove]

Nice! Congrats

[honest kernel]

2 death defies to the Power Couple

Fight's so hard with Charged Shot arrrgh

[misty hamlet]

specifically getting big clusters of armored flamewheels

so I did a bunch of clustering strategies and used it to finish groups of enemies

[cinder cave]

Did you record? Would love to see a vod

[misty hamlet]

i didn't 😦

[sly remnant]

grats wobbles! really impressive!

[cinder cave]

[misty hamlet]

i swear to record my 50s from now on

since people want to see them

[cinder cave]

^

We'll hold you to that )

[misty hamlet]

the only thing I really did that was interesting I think was I phased both champions at the same time so I could thanatos them together in phase 2

and spend less time being made sad

but really the big difference between this run and my others was

not getting double edge

and getting double edge

[cinder cave]

With zag sword? damn

[honest kernel]

2 runs in a row at 57 heat where I die to Minotaur

Hmmm

With Charged Shot

[cinder cave]

I've always just prioritised Asterius in EM3

with sword

I mean if you can do that's insane for your clear time

[misty hamlet]

there's a +2 greatest reflex in there as well

which made double edge and skating around theseus the whole time much easier

and since I had asterius as my miniboss it was a lot easier to time the health

[cinder cave]

I see

[misty hamlet]

.....actually, the REAL MVP of the run

[cinder cave]

that actually makes sense that their hp would phase at the same time

if you just spread the damage around

[misty hamlet]

was I got Eurydice and took rarity increase

[true fable]

nice job wobbles!

[misty hamlet]

and it hit both ares aid and greatest reflex

[true fable]

the gamble paid off

[honest kernel]

Also, am I seeing this right. That companion tho

[cinder cave]

:O

Would you say

[misty hamlet]

that would have been worth recording

[cinder cave]

the instant payout from Ambrosia from Eurydice

[misty hamlet]

👀

[cinder cave]

is much more your pick of choice at this heat?

awkward phrasing but you get what i mean

[misty hamlet]

oh I thought you were going to make a pun

[cinder cave]

xD

[misty hamlet]

i rarely take the rarity boost

[cinder cave]

I just have a very high preference for Refreshing Nectar

[true fable]

pom porridge is just insane

[cinder cave]

cuz it comes just before my Hermes most of the time

[misty hamlet]

exactly

[cinder cave]

and I like epic Hermes and it helps with duo drops

[honest kernel]

Ah yes, Pom Porridge when I have 2 boons, one from hermes

yes yes, pretty good

[true fable]

getting a rare hyper sprint

[misty hamlet]

if i have good scaling boons, then I take pom porridge

[true fable]

honestly i sometimes do this

just to avoid it hitting like

[cinder cave]

roughly what kind of ratio do you guys take?

[true fable]

hyper sprint

lol

[misty hamlet]

if I don't really care about their scaling that much, then usually nectar

[cinder cave]

Sounds like a very deep choice then

[misty hamlet]

but since I already had a greatest reflex, a phalanx shot, and ares aid

[true fable]

probably 80 pom porridge, 5 ambrosia, 15 refreshing nectar for me

[honest kernel]

Pom Porridge when you actually get decent boons to work with is my go-to choice

[misty hamlet]

I was like "any of those boosting rarity is a good hit"

[true fable]

baj is kind of used to having 0-2 boons in that room though

[honest kernel]

Otherwise, depends if I am likely to hit an Hermes boon or not with the rarity up

Everything else -> Nectar

[misty hamlet]

^^

[cinder cave]

Interesting

[misty hamlet]

....now that I think about it yeah

[cinder cave]

I've perhaps undervalued pom porridge

[misty hamlet]

the rarity choice is really centered around whether you're hitting your hermes boon a lot of the time

[cinder cave]

Yeah

[honest kernel]

Hmm Hmm

[cinder cave]

Hermes rarity is the stuff

[misty hamlet]

if you don't have him yet, you take nectar. if you do, you try to hit it with rarity up

[honest kernel]

Sounds about right

[cinder cave]

Does the duo increase ever factor into nectar as well

for you

[misty hamlet]

but if you have good scaling boons, then probably porridge

[honest kernel]

It should

Same for legendaries

[true fable]

let me put it into some context

if you have four boons

that all want poms

then the pom porridge is literally just four rooms

[honest kernel]

Yup

[true fable]

or 400 obols

[misty hamlet]

since I was running AP2, I basically didn't think about building around duos or legendaries

[true fable]

whichever translation metric means more to you

[cinder cave]

Hm the weird thing is though

I think it's hard to value rarity up

[true fable]

rarity matters for some things

[cinder cave]

since sell value != actual value right

[true fable]

like flat damage

flat damage rarity slaps

epic doom being twice as good as white doom is still something i have trouble understanding

like

why

[cinder cave]

400 obols definitely sounds like a lot

[honest kernel]

Rarity scaling in this game is wack

[true fable]

i think i would take rarity maybe on some flat damage builds like merciful end

[cinder cave]

fundamentally as well, Hermes boons scale like crazy off rarity

and duo/legendary drops % vs 4 poms

hmmmm

[true fable]

that's why you run god's pride

if your build needs duos/leg you take god's legacy and cry

[misty hamlet]

yeah, it's actually a pretty interesting choice

or it can be

[true fable]

i think the refreshing nectar is just such a gamble most of the time

[cinder cave]

this is why I actually love roguelite decision making

[misty hamlet]

almost as interesting as your Sisyphus choice with LC4 🙃

[cinder cave]

very dynamic stuff

[honest kernel]

What if I told you

last run I accidentally took darkness lol

[cinder cave]

Darkness is clearly the best at heat 50

Sisphyus big pog

[misty hamlet]

i mean

[glad mantle]

i just cranked the heat up to 33 and i'm dying to Meg again 😫

[misty hamlet]

i took darkness on purpose when chaos killed my ability to make money

[honest kernel]

lol

[cinder cave]

[misty hamlet]

@glad mantle welcome to the heat increase

[honest kernel]

^

[true fable]

32 is the first big plateau for most people

[honest kernel]

Soo, gonna eat real quick

Then I might stream some attempts at 57

[brazen skiff]

16 heat ended my 31 win streak 😔

[glad mantle]

should i stick with it? i do love this game, and it was getting to the point where i had achieved heat 10 on all the weapons and usually didn't have any chance of losing

now i'm losing pretty consistently again!

[honest kernel]

going from 10 to 32 is a BIG jump

[cinder cave]

If you like, just climb 1 heat at a time

worked for me till I wanted to go for 32

Then I did 17=>32

[misty hamlet]

@glad mantle my heat jumps looked something like... 10->20, 20->25, 25->32, then I went up one at a time while trying to figure out why I was crap with some weapons and not others

[cinder cave]

Prioritise playing clean as well whilst you're in your comfort zone

[true fable]

i went 20->32 and then left to do speedruns for like 300 clears

40 felt fine afterward

the main jump was 20->32 for me

32 is the first time you will have to take pacts you dislike tbh

[cinder cave]

^

you're just trying to figure out which are the least bad for your first 32

Saw somebody running AP2 RI1 for their first 32 attempt

[honest kernel]

i took RI1 AP1

despite being told multiple times not to

[true fable]

:^)

i also took RI

since i had done 10 heat with RI and in my infinite wisdom assumed it would be just as easy with it on 32

[honest kernel]

same, i did low low heat with RI

it's just something you don't really feel directly

i stopped taking both for my other 32s though

[true fable]

ive come to realize it's just that you can literally get away with anything at low heat

[glad mantle]

i use RI2 lol

I think removing half of the mirror is a pretty interesting challenge, the first half are helpful power-ups without being too overpowered, i feel

[honest kernel]

Uhm

[glad mantle]

i don't use AP though. i like having as many options as possible

[honest kernel]

Losing Dark Foresight is pretty noticeable, Losing rerolls means byebye your consistency

Extra rarity/Duo/Legendary is big too

for 2 Heat, you lose your consistent powerspikes

Not worth

[glad mantle]

this is true but cthonic keys allow for an in-game way of obtaining rerolls, it's a nice incentive to get keys

[true fable]

you do what you want to

[honest kernel]

^

[true fable]

but RI2 is not the way to go on 32 heat

[honest kernel]

And getting keys is nice, but losing 4 rerolls alone is not worth the 2 heat

[glad mantle]

that's a good point, that it's only 2 heat lol

[true fable]

RI2 is 4 heat but even then it's not worth it

[honest kernel]

^ less money, starting health, damage

[true fable]

RI1 alone should be around 4 heat IMO lol

RI2 + CF anything means you're not getting a boon at midshop

baj when you goin live?

[honest kernel]

SoonTM

Still eating

[true fable]

bet

so i have a EM4/HL5/HS/CP2 dad save now

but it's also on mirage shot scint feast beowulf with 3 casts

so it doesnt actually feel like a dad fight tbh

has anyone done a no dash 32 heat yet

that feels like fun meme content

[rain sedge]

You gonna stream 58 for us?

[honest kernel]

57

Since I won't do it in a hellmode savefile

and I want to submit that to the leaderboards

[glad mantle]

i will def watch

[honest kernel]

give me like 30 minutes, got to check something real quick

[misty hamlet]

please hurry

I want to see somebody else suffer

before I start doing Zag Spear 50

[ripe crane]

Submitting to speedrun leaderboard?

[ripe crane]

.

[true fable]

retrash pact for 45 heat feels so laid back lmao

taking CP2 JS3 DC2 on beowulf? no prob

[honest kernel]

Testing new OBS settings real quick

Yeah ok it really was the encoder

Alright, stream going live, posted in #self-promotion

[true fable]

#h1-victory-boasting message

TD2 is the way

i am a convert

[mossy zinc]

@misty hamlet congratulations! If you have video, you can submit it to the high heat leaderboard.

[dire steppe]

finally a use for dash nova

tbh i think you’d have to use one of the 3, dash nova, any shield, or achilles

shield with sudden rush probably wouldn’t be that bad

[mossy zinc]

@honest kernel I've told you before, hell mode is fine for the high heat leaderboard.

[true fable]

you ever sell a boon you want because youre used to UC

[mossy zinc]

When you don't even have UC on? Yup.

[true fable]

yup

very cool

it was only blood frenzy so not too bad

but kind of funny in the moment

[mossy zinc]

I've also rerolled the Pool when I had 4 boons, 3 of which I definitely didn't want to sell, 1 of which I also kind of didn't want to sell but didn't care as much about.

Rerolled because I didn't want to sell that 1 boon.

Then realized oh oops maybe that was a bad idea, now I have to sell 1 of the 3 I really wanted.

[formal lagoon]

update on this 8 hours later: I ditched the run because my luck with boons was going horribly and I ended up turning off EM4 because I was scared of losing my streak lol

next time

[ripe crane]

The first step in playing high heat is accepting that your streak is going to go away

Unless you count streaking losses

[true fable]

unless you're retrash or bablo

or specifically going for a streak

streak mindset is different from clear mindset

[formal lagoon]

I wanna get my streak up to like 50 or so before I'm ready to part ways with it lol

[sly remnant]

how far did bablo streak with diogenes

[tidal flame]

What even is Diogenes?

[true fable]

RI4/HL5/HS/AP2

zag aspects only

shackle

[tidal flame]

no FO2?

Bablo will never lose on this lol

[sly remnant]

eh he lost a couple runs

[true fable]

yeah tbh it's not too bad

[sly remnant]

but he was streaking earlier

[true fable]

you just can get screwed by hammer

[tidal flame]

really?

[true fable]

and one trap kills you

[tidal flame]

that's ... surprising

[sly remnant]

it takes a bit of adjustment

[true fable]

it's literally just boneless first run

a little bit easier imo just because of hammers/hermes

[sly remnant]

ehhhh HS is not intimidating

[true fable]

but i've only done zag bow

[sly remnant]

i think HS and HL is the issue

every mistake is punished soooooo much

[true fable]

yeah

[tidal flame]

but without FO2 and TD

if you really want

you can go hitless

[sly remnant]

yea i'm not saying its the hardest thing ever

[true fable]

without FO2 it feels super ez tbh

[tidal flame]

now HL5 LC4 RI4 HS AP2

that's spicy

[rain sedge]

my max streak is 7, am I a scrub now?

[true fable]

yes

always have been

:^)

[rain sedge]

"TD2 gang"?

what in the world

[true fable]

i switched to TD2 and did 45 heat beowulf first try

retrash was right

[rain sedge]

are you sure it's the TD2 and not the fact that you're a beo main

[waxen relic]

Alright, Chamber 7 got I core boon and a dash which I'm getting tempted to replace. No Mirror and UC

Divine dash to get

[true fable]

please dont bully beowulf

its just not that good with AP2 RI2

😦

tbh the big thing was that TD2 let me take CP2 EM4 JS3 DC2

which is normally a nightmare combo for beowulf

[sly remnant]

ye

but

my day going so well

and then boom

50 heat

[rain sedge]

oh you made the EM4 vs TD3 tradeoff

[sly remnant]

nah

he took DC2 and CP2 instead

you always do EM4 on beo once you hit 40

[true fable]

^

taking DC2 normally just super sucks

but you can kind of just throw trash damage into stuff on TD2

it's such a leisurely pace

[sly remnant]

ye

now do 50 heat 🙂

[true fable]

i dont want to touch AP1 😦

AP1 makes me a sad gamer

[rain sedge]

ap1 stinks

[sly remnant]

i know it makes me sad too

[true fable]

maybe i'll copy a page out of baj's book and do RI3 AP2

but it just feels sad to play beowulf with no cast

[rain sedge]

arent you on switch?

[true fable]

i do both occasionally

my pc file is my main one though

i just thought cross saves were going to happen at some point and they havent

[rain sedge]

me.jpg

october the 62st today, anytime soon

im supposed to take fiery soul on beo, right?

have I been a clown

i mean fiery presence

[true fable]

fiery

for speedruns

i honestly think shadow might be better for high heat?

not sure

i think bablo was doing shadow

[rain sedge]

the first hit is the dash attack, instead of the cast damage, right?

[true fable]

yeah again for speedruns

fiery only applies to attack/special

[rain sedge]

yea but the bull rush is counted as special, am i right?

[true fable]

bull rush counts as an attack

the cast does not

[rain sedge]

you know, it does almost negligible bonus damage

on skelly

like 15 extra damage

[true fable]

fiery is mostly a speed thing

since beowulf has some very interesting damage breakpoints in tartarus involving fiery + high confidence and dash attacks

[rain sedge]

im just weirded out why it only does 15 extra damage

it's +100% damage on first hit

[mighty mesa]

Does the bull rush do +% damage too?

IE base bull rush is 15, charging it adds some large %, then fiery adds double base

[true fable]

well

it's additive

so it's not "adds double base"

more just +75%

i guess +100% if youre on that previous patch

[mighty mesa]

Idk, I just tested. I'm finding my fully charged bull rush does 40 base, or 70 with +75% FP. Beo does 50 > 87, or 100 > 137 with a cast loaded.

[rain sedge]

mine does 165 on first bull rush to skelly, then 140 subsequently with 270 damage for 3 cast loads both times

idk maybe switch stuff

[mighty mesa]

Huh. Are you backstabbing or using a trinket?

[rain sedge]

................

I might have tested it using shackle

Im a clown, will test again later

[mighty mesa]

Ah-hah, that'd throw everything off

[true fable]

@misty hamlet you play a lot of lucifer right

do you usually go zeus attack or dio attack

[sly remnant]

Zeus attack lets you clear rooms

Even tho everyone knows poseidon attack is the only proper thing on lucifer

[true fable]

facts

[honest kernel]

So, few notes from my session

DDs and SDs are actually about the same, for me

Timing out in Elysium is VERY much an issue with CP2

Experimenting a bit with the Than companion

... If I ever get to Elysium with it, it should make better work of the Heroes

Also helps a bit against the Furies

[gaunt fiber]

don't you waste a bit of time trying to preserve DD?

[honest kernel]

That's the main concern lol

But when I played with SDs, I didn't die too often either

BP rooms included

Either way, without Athena, Patty's going to be the savior here

Always got him in an early room if anything

And never got Than in Elysium either

With either of those factors, and the Than Companion, I could be ok

But so far, Progress is good

Got to Elysium often

My Furies and Lernie fight are a bit better

So it's mostly Elysium

Still on the fence on whether I want DDs or SDs

ugh

IT'S SO CLOSE

If I can get past Elysium, run has a shot

[tidal flame]

appreciate your effort

[gaunt fiber]

Go DD

we need a hipster

[true fable]

especially now that wobbles has fallen

now it's only mr. twerking who uses DDs at 50 heat

[honest kernel]

Also, fun note : I got no Explosive Return

3 Breaching Rush

and 4+ Charged Shot

Like c'mon game LOL

at 'least it gave me Pulverizing blow 2+ times

But my Charged Shot gameplay is getting a bit better and better

So I'm not nearly as sad if I see it

[true fable]

charge shot looked good when you werent getting timer'd

[rain sedge]

explosive return is your top choice hammer?

it's like 50 damage, no?

[true fable]

50 base damage

[rain sedge]

from what I've watched I didnt realise he's taking his special back that often

[true fable]

i believe pulverizing is baj's first choice hammer

[honest kernel]

Let me put it that way : "Whenever you catch your shield, do an instantaneous sword special"

That's Explosive Return

Not sure which one I'd want in the run

Between that and Pulvering Blow

One is a ton of damage, the other is super good room clearing burst

In fact, my fastest time of 8:28 IGT on Zeus shield abuses the heck out of Explosive Return

Non ME, BTW

[true fable]

i think there was one zeus shield clear i did when i played casually that was only explosive return

no dashes

i wish we had an athena/DD react

[true fable]

i somehow turned on high confidence in the middle of my 32 heat winstreak

send help

[sly remnant]

if its beo you are fine

[true fable]

it's zag shield 💀

[sly remnant]

[rain sedge]

So those passion flare hitbox on beo...

They're really janky Huh

Is that why people use dio cast

[sly remnant]

no

we use dio

because

BIG

PURPLE

NUMBER

[rain sedge]

I still got for 3k using passion flare

On the 1 out of 4 times it hits

Timed out from TD because of that btw xDxD

[true fable]

sad

zag shield is actually kind of pog ngl

pulverizing is good baj was right

[rain sedge]

Yea I would've cleared 40 with it if I didn't get 5 sacced

I like spamming special a lot

And Poseidon attack too slam enemies to barriers

[misty hamlet]

question: what is the name of the BP modifier where they have the little laser tether?

[honest kernel]

Linker

[sly remnant]

-2 hp

oh

[misty hamlet]

because Turbo Linker Bloodless can

do something I can't write in this discord without it being erased

[true fable]

lol

write it anyway

embrace the censorship

[sly remnant]

i call it the BP tax

[honest kernel]

Turbo Linker Waveraisers are super annoying

[true fable]

baj pulverizing zag shield is nut i will admit

i am a believer now

[sly remnant]

but don't you have to stand still

[honest kernel]

Basically "Ohey I'm jumping from one edge of the screen to the other and dealing damage to you at the same time have fun"

[true fable]

zag still moves when he does standing attack

a bit of a contradiction i know

[honest kernel]

You move a little bit yeah

[true fable]

also wobbles i think i saw you use dio attack last time i tuned in but i wasnt sure if you switched to zeus for luci

[misty hamlet]

i think my 50 heat won with doom attack actually

can't remember

[true fable]

oh lmao

that's kind of funny

weird stuff happens at high heat i've realized

[misty hamlet]

quick spray across the room, reposition

[true fable]

i just finished a 32 gilga with blade dash and merciful end

[honest kernel]

My 55 heat went Poseidon Attack -> Sell and get rid of Shackles anyways -> Dio attack

lmao

[true fable]

i took blade dash thinking i wouldnt see any more athena

next room was ME

[misty hamlet]

lol

my 40 heat excalibur did almost all its damage with blade dashes

[sly remnant]

sell blade dash

[misty hamlet]

make a big slow circle

dash back and forth five times

¯_(ツ)_/¯

it was my fastest excalibur run

[unique zephyr]

Even though I've beaten it twice, 16 heat is still HARD.

[true fable]

bro i tried to sell blade dash

it wouldnt let me get rid of it

[sly remnant]

?

[true fable]

no rolls and not offered

[sly remnant]

ohhhh

[misty hamlet]

@unique zephyr welcome to the climb

[rain sedge]

It's ok I just died to 16 heat dad too

Keep climbing!

[misty hamlet]

also @unique zephyr what's your heat setup? some of the modifiers have more of an impact than people realize at first, and tweaking them can make a huge difference

[sly remnant]

yea FO2 EM4 16 heat is very different from TD2 MM BP2 HL5 16 heat

[rain sedge]

I was gonna say ri4 ap1 HS cp1

But I'm not sure if that's harder than FO2 em4

[misty hamlet]

imagine not doing 13 heat with HL5 and RI4

[sly remnant]

HL5 is not that bad

[misty hamlet]

it is with 50 health

[sly remnant]

well sure

RI4 is rough

[misty hamlet]

though without BP and FO now that i think about it that's a lot less horrifying

[sly remnant]

exactly

[rain sedge]

I like adding HS there

Feels like the worst 1 heat

[misty hamlet]

man

ever start taking BIG BRAIN BOONS and you're not sure if you're being a 5head or a 3head?

i'm having the weirdest zag spear run and i'm taking all the wrong things and it feels like it's working

[sly remnant]

whats the build

also sometimes your boons don't matter if you got the hammers

[true fable]

only thing that matters is flurry jab

[misty hamlet]

uhhh well one of the things i did was pass a flurry jab

[true fable]

RI4 LC4 HL5 sounds like true hell

seems like youd just have to guan yu and hope

[misty hamlet]

for a vicious skewer

[true fable]

????

[sly remnant]

?????????????????????

[misty hamlet]

it's working okay

[true fable]

that's the upsetting part

[misty hamlet]

i already had chaos boon + athena special and no attack boon

[sly remnant]

oh you do AP2 dont you

[misty hamlet]

i'm doing ap1 this time

[sly remnant]

??????

maybe

i'm just bad

[misty hamlet]

i mean

we'll see how well it works in elysium

[honest kernel]

...

[misty hamlet]

okay it's having serious problems in elysium because my special can't hit a damn thing

[honest kernel]

At first I was like : "Vicious Skewer is somewhat underrated, I can see it" and then saw that you passed up Flurry Jab for it lmao

[misty hamlet]

well

things were going okay until damage-up teleporting brightswords

😦

[honest kernel]

Oh no

[unique zephyr]

I'm still experimenting, but my constants are: Extreme Measures 3, Benefits Package 1, Tight Deadline 2, and Middle Management

I tried Forced Overtime just now and died to the final boss

on the first form

Second benefits package I can't really seem to do either

I cleared with demeter fists (free damage shields) and secret sword

Given those constant heat factors what are good ones to fill out to 16 heat?

[true fable]

those are pretty solid starters

JS1 is fine in my opinion

depending on how you feel about time

UC is ok-ish

[sly remnant]

DC if you like fists is pretty free heat

[true fable]

just another thing to think about

[unique zephyr]

I already did 16 with fists

[true fable]

DC is also free with rail

[unique zephyr]

I'm thinking other weapons

I did secret sword and demeter fists

but not the other 4 weapons

spear will be the hardest for me I think

But yeah my constants give me 13 heat

TD2 is fine for me except maybe spear

I'll try jury summons for one of them, I think one of my successful clears had JS1

[misty hamlet]

question: can you sell Nourished Soul

[sly remnant]

no

anything that gives you a physical thing you cannot sell

and rare crop

[misty hamlet]

epic nourished soul, LC4, the classic

bummer

[ripe crane]

not very epic

[true fable]

https://imgur.com/Qtg0A4I

playing arthur and took room previews hidden

i am

quite sad

[spring kettle]

What'd you purge?

[true fable]

deadly strike

[spring kettle]

Was it with underworld customs on?

[true fable]

yeah

[spring kettle]

Oof

[true fable]

well my rng got better

i have heroic dashes, double edge, epic attack speed and two chaos attack boons

[ripe crane]

And no crit

[true fable]

i got it back baby

+150% dash strike damage from chaos too

[ripe crane]

O

Dang he bout to do it

7 heat Arthur record

[true fable]

nah im just doing 32 on all aspects

arthur done

heroic dashes is stupid

[honest kernel]

Soo

New plan

Back to SDs

Use Skull Earing instead of Accorn

[true fable]

spicy

[honest kernel]

https://gyazo.com/e344851171e5479c7bce1f8a11f5f4ad

If I actually lived that

I had a shot in Styx

Look at the timer

CP2 BTW

[true fable]

yeah thats kinda big

i think skull earring is really good

all rail aspects done at 32 heat now

[honest kernel]

Noice

But legit

[true fable]

zag rail was a lot of fun tbh

[honest kernel]

Shackles start -> Skull Earing when I get a decent enough special

That's the plan

[true fable]

i believe

i think the issue is getting a decent special on AP2

but i guess resets are fine

[honest kernel]

... actually, scratch that

Any non-Poseidon special

[true fable]

if you dont get a special do you just shackle

[honest kernel]

Yeah

Thing is

Zeus shield can work with whatever

Unless It's Poseidon

But legit

[true fable]

ares?

i guess

hmm

[honest kernel]

If it's on Attack/Dash I don't mind much

[true fable]

i might start learning more zag shield tbh

[honest kernel]

Special is eh, yeah

[true fable]

i think it has quite some potential at high heat

[honest kernel]

...

It actually kinda does lol

[true fable]

the damage scales really really well

[honest kernel]

My 45 boonless proved that lol

But i'll say this much : Zeus aspect is simply better at what Zag Shield does

Since both want to smack things

But one has a Yo-Yo for it

[true fable]

i dont think the +15 base is insignficant though

[honest kernel]

It isn't

But I'd rather have the disc

[true fable]

fair

instead of a dead special

[honest kernel]

Funny enough

Shackles Special is actually OK in Tartarus

If you know how to use it

The thing about the special is, you can limit where it goes by hitting a wall/pillar/whatever with it

It has 2 bounces by default

[true fable]

hmm

[honest kernel]

Past Tartarus, don't bother lol

[true fable]

i think i just rode pulverizing to the finish tbh

just abused pulverizing to an ez dub

[honest kernel]

I'm legit hype

I got to the Heroes

Could have won

And didn't die to a timeout

This is the plan

[true fable]

hmm im back to sword

i think my streak ends here

do i do athena start on nemesis?

[honest kernel]

That or Artemis

[true fable]

i got deadly strike anyway lul

turns out all you need on high heat sword is rng

[true fable]

wait hang on

stubborn roots doesnt work if you have an athena DD?

[rancid stirrup]

it doesnt

[true fable]

i got scammed

i want my money back gma

oh well

zag sword is done

only GY and zag bow remain lol

[honest kernel]

...

I just did it

57 heat

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations to you both!

[honest kernel]

And it was with Demeter Special

The one special I knew was actually underrated

Let me nearly perfect Hades

[mossy zinc]

Well, you're the only Zeus Aspect player, so you knew you underrated it yourself if anything.

Skull Earring?

[honest kernel]

Kept it all the way since Asphodel

I said earlier the only thing that blocked me was the Heroes fight

And damage output

I know non-EM4 Hades like the back of my hand

So playing with demeter special was basically playing with FO0 Hades

I just needed damage

[mossy zinc]

Oh this was without EM4. Nice.

[honest kernel]

Without that, Hellmode and Routine Inspection 4

T'was the mirror

[mossy zinc]

Why not Hell mode, though?

[honest kernel]

... What if I told you I didn't expect to actually clear 57 this night ?

I just wanted to practise

[mossy zinc]

Time to load your Hell mode save and do it again with PL at 58.

[honest kernel]

With Skull Earing, I might

It actually provided the damage needed to nullify CP2

Rest was just being good/lucky enough to survive until Hades

[edgy arrow]

57 is a big number 😮

congratulations Baj

that's actually insane

[honest kernel]

It's been 20 minutes

Why am I still nervous as hell

[mossy zinc]

I dunno.

Should be nervous as normal since it was normal mode.

[honest kernel]

Ok, real talk

I might not go for the 58

Gonna need a break

[daring hedge]

oh man baj congrats!!

that's insane

[mossy zinc]

Do you do Power Rushes actually? I haven't picked that hammer a lot.

[honest kernel]

With Sudden Rush

YES

That's what I did the entire fight after setting the special

Without ? Not all the time, but I do. Especially against Hydra heads

It's like an extra 200 damage to your bullrush

[mossy zinc]

Interesting.

[honest kernel]

So it's like

With Sudden + Minotaur Rush

You get a little bit more DPS

But you are also WAY safer

... Just wait until I upload the video

And you'll see what I mean

[edgy arrow]

huh i just assumed it was an AP force lol

maybe i should be taking that hammer more

[honest kernel]

I've grown a lot of respect for Minotaur Rush

That +200 damage actually helps for rooms

For Hydra heads

And against Theseus on his chariot !

Sudden Rush is just solid, for Zeus Aspect

Since you are basically melee range, Anything that helps close the gap is a huge benefit

If anything

This was my ideal hammer setup

Since it's actually so good for the Heroes

Sure, Pulverizing Blow and Explosive Return are great damage multipliers

But they are a lot less safer

Doesn't matter much in the context of a speedrun

But when you have limited effective HP, it starts to matter

[edgy arrow]

i can imagine, yeah

man i can't wait to watch this run

[honest kernel]

Taking a small break real quick

Finally starting to wind down a bit lmao

[edgy arrow]

entirely fair lol

[true fable]

mino rush is kind of big

surprised you made it without pulverizing tbh

but i guess bull rushing is indeed safer

are you gonna start doing 32/40? or are you going after 58

[honest kernel]

First of

TAKING A BREAK

I wonder how many years that took off of me for doing this

[true fable]

balding yet?

LOL

[honest kernel]

Hopefully not

[true fable]

consider me inspired

very nice

[honest kernel]

But I might just do high heat speedruns if anything

Want to see how all my practise affected me

[true fable]

maybe its time for me to stop messing around in 32 heat

although i do want to do GY/zag bow

zag bow kinda still feels super awks to me

[honest kernel]

Zag Bow is ranged Nemesis

soooo

[true fable]

you should also probably change your nametag now

oh

nice

LOL

zag bow is ranged nemesis

but i cant get dedge 😦

[honest kernel]

You can get Twinshot

And Triple Shot

[true fable]

big true

[rain sedge]

Is baj king now?

I woke up to 57 from baj

[true fable]

1 second left on the deadline too

kind of baller stuff baj

[honest kernel]

T'was a 3-sack

As I expected

[true fable]

all according to the keikaku

[honest kernel]

The moment the Heroes go down, a 2-3 sack and I'm good

But even then

Considering how I played the fight

I actually had a decent time buffer

[true fable]

fair

do you think you're gonna branch out to other weapons

or is zeus shield the one true way for you

[honest kernel]

The only ways I could push Zeus shield are Hellmode savefile -> TD2 and EM4

Also RI4 but no way I'm doing that

[true fable]

theres still the 50 heat speedrun record

[honest kernel]

And EM4 CP2 ...

[true fable]

and the 40 heat speedrun record

and the 32 heat speedrun record

dang that tailesque guy has a lot of records

[honest kernel]

lmao

[true fable]

i want to beat 32 heat if only so that he'll be forced to get a sub 8

[rain sedge]

Is 57 highest now?

[honest kernel]

Well

Yes

[true fable]

unless that korean nemesis guy is doing funky stuff

that we havent heard about yet

[honest kernel]

Just let me check the MP4 so it's not corrupted or something

[true fable]

🙂

[rain sedge]

Long live the king 👑

[rancid stirrup]

who is this korean nemesis guy

[true fable]

we all kings

check srcom

seeded

[rain sedge]

Nya is not

[true fable]

50 heat nemesis

[honest kernel]

Apparently he did 50 heat nemesis or something

On seeded yeah

[true fable]

they're insane

[honest kernel]

I kinda want to see how he does it

[true fable]

piercing wave stonks

[honest kernel]

Playing Melee without a block button is weird to me lol

[rain sedge]

Why is that insane? Retrash did 54 zag sword no?

[rancid stirrup]

on youtube?

[honest kernel]

Retrash's also insane

[true fable]

it is still a 50 heat sword clear haha

im a simple man you show me a 50 heat sword clear and i'll be impressed

the boards got reset btw

[rain sedge]

I'm also a simple man

[honest kernel]

Hmm

[true fable]

so if you submit something rn it might be WR who knows

[honest kernel]

Quick

Get your meme runs in

[rain sedge]

Best time to submit 40 eris

SUPER SOAKER

[honest kernel]

HECK YES

Oh yeah, just realized

I hit 1K escape attempts today lol

[true fable]

LOL big nice

i hit that 200 runs ago but im p sure at least 200-300 runs are resets in tartarus for beo/eris

the number of my uploads that begin with aspho interchamber suicide is alarming

[honest kernel]

Bright

The floor is lava

[true fable]

hugs floor

time to push zag shield i guess

[honest kernel]

Oh, the 57 heat clear pre-death is a real "What?" moment

I try to deflect Lernie with Charged Shot boosted by Athena Attack

And as I fire it ... I eat the hit

[true fable]

oof

imagine if deflect proc'ed on block

deadly reversal stonks through the roof

[honest kernel]

Like, a full on "Nope, Charged Shot is butt cheeks defensively, you can't fire it and expect to block at the same time"

"Eat this head bonk to the face"

[true fable]

charged shot sus for sure

[honest kernel]

Still a fantastic damage boost tho

[true fable]

which was your first hammer

[honest kernel]

Sudden Rush I think ?

Let me check the video

[true fable]

you dont remember? lol

[honest kernel]

Give me a break

[true fable]

lmao

[honest kernel]

I'm nauseous from the fight still

[true fable]

i would be too

good on you for finishing the job

kbm stonks rising as we speak

[honest kernel]

If it wasn't for Demeter Special, I might have thrown the run

Legit

It started as a Zeus special

And it was traded in Elysium

About as perfect a transition as you could expect

Ok, Minotaur Rush was first

[mossy zinc]

Of course not. m the Queen of Hades, after all. I don't wanna be king.

[honest kernel]

Nevermind

Sudden Rush was second

[true fable]

good first hammer tbh

[honest kernel]

Hydra slayer, pretty much

[true fable]

dont need the mobility aside from lernie fight

[honest kernel]

But I don't recall if I actually used it in that run's Lernie fight lol

[true fable]

also dont know what everyones talking about with this "arthur is hard" stuff

just get heroic dashes double edge and 2 chaos dash strike boons

ez

[honest kernel]

Ok I legit forgot lmao. Main head was blue. Purple and Yellow minis (The one with the tracking projectiles)

[mossy zinc]

What heat did you do with Excalibur?

[true fable]

32

im just tryna get 32 on all aspects

GY is still a dead end

so far only died on zag bow GY and arthur

[mossy zinc]

Excalibur is still one of the best for 32.

[true fable]

i believe

my luck was just kind of nuts so i thought it was funny

ended up with epic swift strike too

just all good things

[mossy zinc]

lol

Wasting all your natural 20s on 32 Heat smh.

[true fable]

true

should be saving them for AP2 50 heat beowulf runs

just manifest perfect rolls

[mossy zinc]

@honest kernel you should do some RI4. Only way we push that higher is by doing it.

[honest kernel]

I tried

At 45 heat

Dying to Elysium Mobs ain't fun

[true fable]

playing ap2 and/or charged flight beowulf just doesnt appeal to me

so maybe i just do zag shield instead

RI4 LC4 isnt one of those things that really sounds possible

[honest kernel]

I mean

Depends on what else is turned on

[mossy zinc]

I did RI4 LC4 at 30 already the other day.

[true fable]

with gy right

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[true fable]

sigh retrash is gonna beat max heat with cursed flurry slash isnt he

or i guess 61 heat since td3 stays perpetually off

[mossy zinc]

No, with Drunken Dash.

[honest kernel]

Looking back at the MP4 file. Sudden Rush + Minotaur Rush is REALLY nice against Theseus

[true fable]

i love when people talk about ultra high heat "builds" like it isnt just picking up whatever scraps are left after RI1 AP2 UC

ah yes the classic hunter dash shackle build

[mossy zinc]

And CF2.

[daring hedge]

classic high heat rama build: try to get deadly strike and slap on some athena if you can

[mossy zinc]

I'll prove to you that Heartbreak Strike is superior.

[true fable]

tailesque can you let me have post patch 32 heat wr for like 2 hours this time

[mossy zinc]

Sometime.

[true fable]

you can have pre patch i wont touch that one

can you even downpatch this game?

[mossy zinc]

You can play on Switch.

[static plover]

yes, it's kinda a pain on steam to downpatch

you used to be able to downpatch directly from the steam launcher (it took a tiny bit of fiddling)

that's no longer a thing

[true fable]

in other news eris actually feels slightly harder on 40+ heat

so the nerf is working as intended

[edgy arrow]

yeah i was noticing that the other day

[daring hedge]

i'm glad i nabbed a 50 with eris before this patch because i'm not great at using the special unless it's rocket bomb lmao

[edgy arrow]

not sure how much difference it'll make for speedruns tho

[true fable]

oh no difference for speedruns

but you dont really have 100% uptime on buff unless youre purposely missing specials on high heat now

which is interesting

[edgy arrow]

yeah

[static plover]

it'll make a differance for lower skilled runners, it won't change anything for highly skilled runners

[true fable]

i shoulda done eris 50 when i had the chance 😦

[edgy arrow]

oh yeah absolutely

[true fable]

i guess i should just do it now

lmao

[edgy arrow]

i'm sure i'd be slower with the nerf, since i'm not speedrunner and also terrible with eris

[mossy zinc]

@true fable any progress on RI4 TD3 Beowulf?

[edgy arrow]

but for the people that know what they're doing its probably not a big deal

[true fable]

i woulda beat the deadline with just RI4

probably not with other pacts

[mossy zinc]

So no.

[true fable]

nope

ive been distracted by all the other shiny objects in zags arsenal

[mossy zinc]

Still dying to TD3. Good to know at least it's not just me.

[true fable]

can you blame me

[mossy zinc]

Have you tried Shackle in Tartarus?

[honest kernel]

RI4 TD3 Beowulf

That legit sounds impossible

[true fable]

tbh i havent even tried 32 heat RI4 beowulf yet

[honest kernel]

Even with Shackles

[true fable]

i only did it at 8 heat

havent tried since

[mossy zinc]

It's pretty brutal. I feel like you just gotta roll into Charged Flight in Tartarus lol.

[daring hedge]

maybe i should do RI4 45 heat the 40 ended with a ridiculous amount of health untouched

[true fable]

please dont

[mossy zinc]

You should.

[true fable]

lmao

[daring hedge]

lol

[true fable]

the bar will be set far too high

[honest kernel]

Don't do like me and try Diogenes+++

And you'll be fine

[true fable]

i honestly think eternal rose start is fine for beowulf

maybe i'll change my mind after a few tries

[mossy zinc]

Main reason I do RI4 is to inspire more people to do it, so we can push towards max heat eventually.

[true fable]

i want to get 24x32 first though

[honest kernel]

I did a few runs of RI4 to see how far I could go without dying lol

[daring hedge]

this was boot camp for max heat all along, how could we not see it

[edgy arrow]

yeah for real with is 24x32 so hard lol

[true fable]

for the inevitable 32 heat all aspects speedrun

[honest kernel]

Elysium it was, on high heat

[daring hedge]

i'd definitely be interested in either all weapons or 3 weps in a higher heat environment than where they're currently run

could be fun for 32 or 40

[honest kernel]

Honestly ^ this

[true fable]

bablos been doing all weaps 32 heat

i think his record is 2:19:xx

im down to try that though

[honest kernel]

Gonna have to relearn Achilles and something else real quick

[true fable]

feel like id die a lot on sword though

[mossy zinc]

I mean I figure you probably knew that's why I've been doing it. You've known me for long enough here.

[true fable]

i lose a fair number of dds on sword in regular speedruns lol

i thought you did it just to occupy the bottoms 3 spots on srcom

[mossy zinc]

Lmao

No I submitted them just to troll though lol.

[true fable]

your verifier mustve enjoyed them

[daring hedge]

well hey now we have the heat sheet where they're displayed in their own special category

[mossy zinc]

He did. He pinged me to tell me pretty much that lol.

[true fable]

tailesque would you go arthur in an all weaps setting

or nem/poseidon

[daring hedge]

for 32 i might go nemesis instead, but probably 40 yeah

[true fable]

gotcha

[mossy zinc]

I'd lean towards Poseidon for 40.

[daring hedge]

i'm just not as practiced with poseidon aspect

[true fable]

until cast stonks online its just worse

[honest kernel]

That moment when my most recent practise with Sword was screwing around with Poseidon sword lol

[mossy zinc]

Or you could reroll for a Double Edge start on Nemesis maybe if you're good with it?

[true fable]

just pick the double edge hammer

thats what all good nemesis players do

at least the ones ive seen

[mossy zinc]

I feel like 40 Heat all weapons, I'd want to start with Stygius.

Since that's the worst weapon for 40+ imo.

[daring hedge]

same i think

[true fable]

im not starting with anything other than beo

although i guess i could play zeus shield instead? feels like a cop out

for me

that wasnt a dig at you baj lol

[honest kernel]

I don't mind lol

I just play what's fun to me

[true fable]

would just be off brand

[honest kernel]

And that's subjective

[true fable]

ive kind of build up a brand

[honest kernel]

So you do you

[mossy zinc]

But we don't really have an established Poseidon meta for 40+. I think that's the most reliable for consistency at least until pacts ruin your chances for a good cast build.

[daring hedge]

i'd like to practice more with achilles but i know my heart is still with hades spear

[true fable]

ive started to really like arty cast on poseidon

i just wish the crit chance were slightly higher than prepatch zag bow

feels bad

[mossy zinc]

I've been playing Achilles a bit more. It's a lot of fun.

[true fable]

flurry jab achilles is a fun weapon

[mossy zinc]

I think Guan Yu is probably my favorite at the moment. Which it was before they added Malphon, too.

[true fable]

i dont understand that thing tbh

[daring hedge]

my zag spear 50 loss before the victory run had flurry jab and it felt so good 😔

[gaunt fiber]

Neither do I

[daring hedge]

one of the only avenues for it to do... any damage at all

[true fable]

yeah i lucked into flurry jab zag spear start while streaking 32

and then bam

guan yu

[mossy zinc]

Don't believe @gaunt fiber by the way when he says Charged Skewer adds +200% base damage.

[true fable]

maybe i should stop fishing for ME

[mossy zinc]

He never fully charges, so his only does +150% maybe.

[gaunt fiber]

that's so wrong

you told me that vs lernie

Like come on

I aint charging it

[true fable]

mmmm astaos bullying

a timeless classic

[mossy zinc]

No, I told you after Lernie when I saw you didn't do it once for the entire run up to then nor the runs before.

[gaunt fiber]

ersgùp,mklerglôM?

Final answer.

[mossy zinc]

Did you have a run-in with Charon?

[true fable]

do you usually do heart rend?

[gaunt fiber]

Honestly idk why people don't understand him, he's pretty clear

[mossy zinc]

Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish are the best start by far imo. You only need either of those. ME needs way too much.

Don't really need Divine Dash until Asphodel either.

[gaunt fiber]

I don't really go for heart rend anymore

[true fable]

yeah ive been doing athena start and just bleed time