Going into Lernie with -4 HP per Attack lol.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
dire steppe
it can’t kill you so just get to 1hp and gitgud
mossy zinc
You must have confused me with Astaos because we both play Guan Yu a lot.
rain sedge
You must have confused me with Astaos because we both play Guan Yu a lot.
lord in heaven
straight up murder
gaunt fiber
^^
mossy zinc
true fable
hey astaos when's the funeral
also chaos shield is still legit
as long as you keep TD2
LOL
gaunt fiber
^^
rain sedge
I'm not saying it's not legit, I'm just wondering why people think it's so good
as I said, it felt like, 10% better than zag, shield, maybe
I did it with TD3, that's not the problem... maybe
true fable
its very very slow to start
my tartarus was almost 6 minutes
and then the rest of the run was like 12
rain sedge
I guess I did get splitting bolt in tartarus 
also now that I'm free from high heat, I might be able to try fun things
like RI4 eris 32 heat
do a nya
mossy zinc
Smoldering Air with no call. Great combo.
gaunt fiber
I don't call for help anyway
mossy zinc
No one would come either, so that works out.
mossy zinc
Doesn't Hades' Aid require 50% now?
mossy zinc
Oh yeah, I didn't take FO2 for my RI4 runs except for the one run yesterday.
rain sedge
got - dash distance from chaos lmfao
rain sedge
maybe I shouldn't have taken that
mossy zinc
Chaos Gate with RI4 is courageous.
rain sedge
it was pretty miserable lol
rancid stirrup
as it turns out
asterius and thesius isn't so bad if i don't go full monkey brain
even missed the meg on thesius 
true fable
you do the up meg right
rancid stirrup
usually i go meg -> special on them
i somehow brainfarted and start off with cast special dash
true fable
what i mean is
to meg do you just walk up
because if you walk straight up and meg it should never miss
rancid stirrup
yeah
i didn't this time lmao
brainfarted because i was too focused on slow playing the fight
rancid stirrup
how did that happen
rancid stirrup
lol
mossy zinc
@rancid stirrup congrats on 40! 
edgy arrow
nice "Hestia" run <@!309651131213152258>
thanks lol
rain sedge
Eris 🦀
edgy arrow
i seem to be completely incapable of playing hestia normally, so it was only option
rain sedge
This might be the one good thing about playing on switch, I have unnerfed eris
rain sedge
Do it
edgy arrow
(he says, lying)
edgy arrow
what was your pact setup?
mossy zinc
How are you incapable of playing click boom?
edgy arrow
idk
proud jay
8 -> 4 seconds duration on eris matters a little bit for high heat
but sure it's still strong
edgy arrow
hmm true
rain sedge
mossy zinc
Video or it didn't happen.
edgy arrow
RI3 wtf
mossy zinc
rain sedge
I think retrash is true only one who do EM4 at high heat
edgy arrow
fair enough
i don't pay that much attention to meta past 45 honestly lol
i'm too bad for that
rancid stirrup
btw
when’s the best time to check room numbers
i know i can open the boon menu while picking boon
is that the and npc rooms the only way to check rooms without moving the timer
mossy zinc
Right when you enter a chamber.
rancid stirrup
ooh cool it works, thanks
mossy zinc
Woops. Had a good LC4 RI4 Lv.1 Guan Yu run ended by Skullcrusher miniboss in one shot lol.
proud jay
40 heat new beginnings btw
proud jay
thanks
rain sedge
eris is free at 50?
eris 50 was less frustrating than shield and sword 40
there were times where I got cucked by AP1, or by sac, or by random BP combo, but eris is less reliant on all that
the hammers are mostly fine, you really only need lightning strike and 1 other boon, and even if you dont get athena dash it's kinda fine-ish since you're range
edgy arrow
i've already done shield 40 so should be ez then lol
rain sedge
well shield 40 became slightly less frustrating once I got decent hammers
edgy arrow
does help
rain sedge
but yeah. sword was... unbelievable
edgy arrow
i still haven't done sword
rain sedge
just restart until you get double nova strike on excalibur apparently
edgy arrow
lowkey pretending zag sword doesn't exist for my 24x32
i'll just do 23x32 instead lmao
anyway might as well give this a shot
haven't played eris in a while actually
rain sedge
hold attack and dash, it's that simple
rain sedge
no RI and no AP, sounds good
edgy arrow
no RI no AP would be 44 tho
lol i should've done that
just taken CP2 or something for 45
rain sedge
im trying 52 too
edgy arrow
yus natural athena in tartarus
i'm playing terribly tho lol
lmao she dropped dash but AP took it
rip me
rain sedge
yeah that's why AP sucks
you can't reroll either with RI2
bablo is doing another astaos cosplay btw
gaunt fiber
I don't die in Tartarus that often
drowsy berry
To answer a few things above:
- @daring hedge — Skelly has more HP but the more noticeable change is that he takes less damage from your attacks.
— Hell Mode is doing what we wanted it to (providing a higher difficulty floor for experienced players starting Hades). I would not expect changes to it.
rain sedge
can I know what's "less" amir?
hearty dome
https://imgur.com/WOZIhAZ
why would you play -100% heal with this aspect ? isnt it easier to go damage control for exemple ?
mossy zinc
Guan Yu can heal anyway.
formal gust
what's the best cast for achilles 40+
mossy zinc
Crush Shot.
formal gust
really
formal gust
isn't being that close while casting risky
mossy zinc
Not if you backstab.
formal gust
so achilles also plays like a hybrid melee cast weapon at high heat too?
formal gust
that few?
mossy zinc
Since it buffs both your Attack and Cast, getting Weak on Cast and crits on Attack works really well.
rain sedge
I use zeus but my 40 clear on spear is on GY
I would say crush shot is not as unsafe as you think, but it's way less safe than zeus
formal gust
zeus seems like it falls off hard on higher heat
formal gust
I mean beo 45 heat wasn't too hard
rain sedge
I tried zeus (most reliable, fast, picking up bloodstone is hard, but most importantly it doesnt lodge on enemy), poseidon (big damage, mirage shot, but lodge on enemy), and crush shot
mossy zinc
The real build is Flurry Jab.
rain sedge
I did not like that one that much, but yeah
does turning on god mode give a "boon" with a skull picture? I saw one at victory boasting with a skull boon
hollow lynx
yes
rain sedge
I see
formal gust
I looove flood shot
rain sedge
and if you turn it on, and then off, does the boon stay?
is that how people check that speedrun submissions arent cheating etc
formal gust
idk
edgy arrow
and if you turn it on, and then off, does the boon stay?
ok never used it personally so grain of salt this, but i’m pretty sure this is how it works:
if you’re using god mode when you beat hades, the “boon” skull icon appears with your other boons but if you used it earlier then turned it off it doesn’t. however there’s also a second, smaller icon next to the victory message which appears if you ever used god mode during a run, even if you later turned it off
for speedrun.com you need to submit a full run recording anyway tho, so it doesn’t really matter
static dock
Opinions on Shackle keepsake with very high heat? (Combined with Hestia )
mossy zinc
Crepes did 50 Heat boonless with Hestia and Shackle.
hollow lynx
it just won a 56 attempt a little while ago lol
static dock
Okay I'm on the right track then
static dock
What affects Shackle exactly? Does Ares' +cast, special and attack damage nuligate the keepsake?
I am talking about 50+ Especially now that I heard no one cleared max heat Hades yet
hollow lynx
anything that goes into those core slots on the left
any secondary floating modifiers don't count
static dock
Ty
mossy zinc
Why are Hestia users a cult?
formal gust
from my experience the people who like hestia are like suuuuper dedicated to it
mossy zinc
Isn't that just Crepes? lol
formal gust
nah there's a speedrunner who almost exclusively uses hestia
mossy zinc
I see.
rain sedge
using hestia instead of eris for speedrun WeirdChamp
mossy zinc
So two people.
mossy zinc
That's double the Hades Aspect player population.
formal gust
I remember someone else really liked hestia
rain sedge
always two there are, no more, no less
mossy zinc
Hestia is the only rail I really like, I think.
Maybe I'll try Eris again after the nerfs.
formal gust
gdi why didn't the 15% damage decrease go through
mossy zinc
I've been turned off of Spread Fire after the faceroll it was in Nighty Night.
gaunt fiber
I got a Deadly Reversal setup with Heartbreak flourish, not too bad
Too bad it was a Asphodel charged skewer and a four sack
static dock
I think Hestia is a really good weapon! It allows you to deal great damage by using basic mechanics only
Less relient on luck
gaunt fiber
Artemis aid was incredible @dusty flint
static dock
Btw, when is a max heat run legit, do you need to stream it or something? Or is a screenshot enough (When th time gets there)
gaunt fiber
If you clear 63 you'd better record it
static dock
And if I don't it doesn't count?
crystal sand
ok so i was wondering if i should start using a controller for higher heat levels. I have been using mouse and keyboard but the aiming for the gun is a bit hard for me when im fighting
ive mostly been using zeus's aegis and speccing into Dionysus/Athena and Ares
mossy zinc
@static dock need video and show previous death for unseeded. Otherwise it will go into seeded.
sly remnant
most people use controller for the movement dexterity. i prefer keyboard and mouse for the aiming dexterity. the ability to have a high degree of control over aiming (i have aim assist turned off) is insanely powerful. i make blocks with beowulf i would never be able to on a controller
but controller is the standard. so keep that in mind
crystal sand
alrighty. Thank you i appreciate it
sly remnant
if you are gonna keyboard and mouse i would turn off aim assist its godawful
aim assist is necessary on controller
static dock
@mossy zinc Ah that makes sense, I forgot seeds are a thing in this game. Well once I get close I'll start "streaming" haha
dusty flint
Artemis aid was incredible <@!525308941203144724>
I refuse
Although I'd like footage
honest kernel
A bit late for the response, I was asleep. I planned on migrating, eventually, to a Hellmode Savefil, so that I could nab that extra heat from PL, yes. However, with the confirmed rules for the leaderboards, I'll stick to my main savefile for now, and try to go for 57 heat instead
For now, at 'least
mossy zinc
The newly pinned high heat leaderboard accepts Hell mode clears.
And Jerds asked because they're still debating Hell mode for the speedrun leaderboard at high heat.
So the rules aren't "confirmed" yet.
sly remnant
i would love to drop a DC heart on beo for PL
ripe crane
You can! Just not for speedrunning
wraith imp
if you are gonna keyboard and mouse i would turn off aim assist its godawful
ok, so i'm not alone in thinking this. good, good. i have aim assist turned off when playing.
and yeah, i bought an xbox controller during black friday just for this game so i'll see if aim assist makes a difference.
sly remnant
ok, so i'm not alone in thinking this. good, good. i have aim assist turned off ...
yea its atrocious. if you have any kind of experience with FPS gaming the aim assist is a straight nerf
wraith imp
yeah, i noticed that aim assist would sometimes lock on to the wrong enemy or prevent me from firing at walls for ricochet shots.
sly remnant
its also awful on lucifer. JUST LET ME SHOOT THE BOMB PLEASE
wraith imp
lol, yeah. that's the weapon i had in mind.
honest kernel
"No. Shoot thy urn instead"
static dock
Wait, is there a difference between Hell mode runs and normal mode runs for highest heat? I am at Hell mode currently
honest kernel
Hellmode has the Personnal Liability pact modifier
Regular mode does not
Thus, Hellmode Savefiles have 1 heat extra
static dock
Oh, so in theory Hell mode can get 1 higher heat
static dock
Yeah but for high heat that doesnt really matter right?
honest kernel
JS and CP are not ideal for speedruns
static dock
Do you know all abbreviations out of your head? lol
static dock
You must have played alot 😛
cinder cave
Spend enough time here and your brain becomes abbreviated
honest kernel
^
cinder cave
static dock
LOL
static dock
😛
honest kernel
Anyways, Jury Summons and Calisthenics Programs being enabled by default gives the edge for normal mode in the context of a speedrun, since both tend to slow down the run a bit
But in the context of getting the highest heat possible, Hellmode has the edge here
Since Personnal Liability isn't available in a regular mode savefile
static dock
Honestly, when I heard max heat has never been reached, that was something I'd like to aim for in the long run. And that basically means I use all heat modifiers regardless
tidal flame
And PL shield is kinda useless anyway ngl
honest kernel
Max heat won't be reached for a solid while
Simply because Extreme Measures 4 is a thing
static dock
Why is that?
tidal flame
RI4
honest kernel
Routine Inspection 4 is honestly not the worst thing here. It's Extreme Measures 4 combined with the Tight Deadline 3 and whatever else makes the run longer
cinder cave
also
static dock
Ah so the time is the worst
cinder cave
you have to play quite aggressively with TD3
honest kernel
^
static dock
And you can´t use Chaos gates cause of no healing I assume=
tidal flame
Chaos gate is a death trap on AP2
cinder cave
If someone actually manages to do max heat
tidal flame
Just don't tbh
cinder cave
They are probably the next coming of god the gods
honest kernel
The closest we could do is everything enabled but Tight Deadline set at 2 instead
And even then, that's stupidly hard
static dock
How many minutes is TD3?
honest kernel
5 minutes per biome, overlaps
static dock
oh darn
cinder cave
yeah watch your language here, think of the kiddies
tidal flame
Idk, I can't see someone doing it on 50 health and whatever you get from darkness and heart max HP
honest kernel
Is it time for Zag Sword Cursed Slash to shine ?
tidal flame
You need to dodge like virtually everything
Draining Cutter time baby
Demeter fists time
hollow lynx
shackle draining cutter demfists
static dock
Well a 20 minutes run with dodging everything isn't the hardest I think, keeping up that pace with the nerves would be a thing
hollow lynx
new meta?!
honest kernel
Not when Extreme Measures 4, Calisthenics Programs 2, Jury Summons 3, Damage Control 2 are enabled
And also, with Approval Process 2, you aren't getting the build you want, ever
So your damage's going to be limited
tidal flame
Shackle time baby
honest kernel
Shackle Barely makes it with CP2 enabled
tidal flame
I'm being facetious
honest kernel
With JS3, you'd need free rooms lol
hollow lynx
we'll just petition amir to make shackle 150%
static dock
Well I defintely am inspired : )
honest kernel
If anyone could do max heat
They'd either be called a god or a hacker
Most likely the second one
ripe crane
Max heat will never be completed. I will bet any amount of money on that.
tidal flame
I'll call them a router
hollow lynx
i'd probably call them a TAS
tidal flame
Max heat will never be completed. I will bet any amount of money on that.
Not completed "organically." I do believe if they route it's possible.
hollow lynx
(or TAH? tool assisted heatrun?)
ripe crane
Not completed "organically." I do believe if they route it's possible.
They would also need to play perfectly to overcome no SD/DD. Not feasible for a human
hollow lynx
TAZ, tool assisted zagreus
honest kernel
Closest I can do is Tartarus and Asphodel
Assuming I don't throw against the furies lol
Don't mind the billion edits am still waking up
spring kettle
Yeah, I think it's only possible for a TAS to complete max heat
ripe crane
I need training from Retrash on how to not suck at EM4
spring kettle
and even then, you would need some lucky RNG because of AP2
spring kettle
-50 health from the mirror, no SD/DDs, no damage bonuses from backstabbing by default
sly remnant
its possible with routing
unseeded.....would take the equivalent of winning the power ball
and you can't be a random joe. you also have to be an insanely skilled player
so you basically need to be the lebron james of hades AND win the power ball
the statistical likelihood of that occurring is......very small
gaunt fiber
63 you mean?
sly remnant
yea
gaunt fiber
Idk
we'll see if some strats are found
we have some time
Won't deny the RNG part tho lol
sly remnant
you have to remember....you have no DDs, no extra health, no control over what boons you gets, enemies have mountains of health AND damage, you can't take chaos gates because the damage is permanent, there are more enemies than ever before
and you have to deal with all of this
in 5 minutes
tidal flame
if anything, probably a draining cutter dem fist shackle strat
sly remnant
i would agree that demeter fist is one of the few weapons you could attempt it on
you have to take zeus keepsake tho
its the only way you'll ever clear rooms
rama could do it too
rama's kit is very self-sufficient
ripe crane
Rama or Eris are the only things fast enough imo
rapid ore
hey is there any solid strats for 32 heat at the moment?
rain sedge
What would be interesting is to mod the game to give you the absolute best everything within the realms of chance
So max amount of gold rooms, you decide boons and rarity, etc
And see if it can be done
I'm talking about stuff like chamber 3 splitting bolt Eris
waxen relic
.. So I'd rather answer slightly more specific questions
sly remnant
we'd need weapon and aspect to really offer specific advice
someone has our "suggested 32 heat comment" saved
if they happen to see it
true fable
i was kind of thinking the same thing about eris nerfs as mentioned higher up
the buff duration doesnt matter for speedrunning
but it kind of matters for high heat
sly remnant
idk its still only needs like 2 things to get going
true fable
having to be in the blast radius of every special you shoot changes what things are safe
true fable
oh im not saying eris is weak
twilit orbit
and sometimes if you miss the buff duration for a few seconds its not that big of a deal imo
true fable
it's not "just shoot your special more" though
sly remnant
yea i think the only thing its really gonna affect is eris times at high heat
true fable
not standing in your special for one special -> shoot -> reload cycle means you miss the buff for the next
twilit orbit
tbh you could shoot your special every time your need to reload and still have about the same buff uptime
true fable
which is kind of huge imo
twilit orbit
yeah it definitely makes things slower
twilit orbit
but the impact probably isnt huge on safety
true fable
maybe its time to play other weapons
twilit orbit
it just makes you take a bit longer to clear rooms sometimes
true fable
killing things slower = less safe
rain sedge
someone has our "suggested 32 heat comment" saved
yea I got it, I've been saying get it pinned so we get less of these type of questions
#h1-high-heat-strategies message @rapid ore
FWIW if I remember my 50 eris run, 4s makes no difference whatsoever
sly remnant
i mean its a nerf but its a slap on the wrist at best
rain sedge
theoretically you want something like 3x special or cluster bomb and you spam special anyway
true fable
eris is not bad by any means im just saying the 4s buff duration comes into play for high heat
rain sedge
even brainlets like me who use delta chamber still spam special
true fable
whereas for speedrunning you dont have to even think twice about it
twilit orbit
i really like delta chamber
sly remnant
like once you break 45 eris starts to struggle
mossy zinc
Eris, Hestia, Chiron, Rama, and Excalibur are all quite easy for 32 Heat.
rain sedge
wdym, I did 50 on it
sly remnant
oh it can do it
rain sedge
and I'm literally so much worse than the people here
sly remnant
i'm not saying it can't do it
true fable
you did RI2 right?
rain sedge
yeah RI2
rain sedge
yeah that superdad fight....
twilit orbit
tbh I think bow and rail in general are good weapons to start 32 heat with
except for lucifer
rain sedge
If I got that fight, I would need a delta chamber
twilit orbit
because screw that aspect
sly remnant
eris is just no longer king once you start having to do past 45 because eris is such a bad EM4 weapon
twilit orbit
I mean ME is very good
shy plinth
Ath atk/ath dash/art special demeter fists felt pretty hard to die with
twilit orbit
but fists are melee so if you're not as good at avoiding damage that might hurt
true fable
zeus fists dem is still really good at high heat
sly remnant
my first 32 and 40 clear was with demeter fists
shy plinth
Big green uppercut gets it done
twilit orbit
im just thinking for the average player who wants a 32 heat clear
mossy zinc
Melee is just naturally harder, yeah. Can't just pick up Malphon and do it if you don't have practice with the weapon.
twilit orbit
its probably(?) best to do ranged
true fable
then why arent we just suggesting chiron/hestia to everyone? whatever theyre most comfortable with gives them the best chances to clear
sly remnant
i would not suggest hestia to most players
true fable
maybe we should just suggest chiron and hestia and be done with it
twilit orbit
hestia felt pretty easy the one time I used it at 32
though that was also pretty late into the process and I had a lot of experience by that point
mossy zinc
Well, I already suggest them to most players if they don't mention preferences lol.
sly remnant
eris is about as pickup and play of a weapon as there is in the game
mossy zinc
Hestia is super consistent.
twilit orbit
that weapon does way too much damage
mossy zinc
Eris is up there, too. Some people do better with Hestia.
sly remnant
yea but people underestimate rooms a lot. clearing rooms with hestia is not as braindead as eris
twilit orbit
i mean it didnt feel too hard
mossy zinc
It is tbh. You can just snipe everything.
sly remnant
you can turn your brain off for 80% of rooms with eris and only really focus on boss fights
mossy zinc
m never worried about not making Erebus with Hestia even if I enter in Elysium.
sly remnant
you are also a good player
mossy zinc
Only problem would be Flamewheels spawning like right on top of you.
twilit orbit
omg flamewheels in erebus gates are the worst
sly remnant
you can JS3 and DC2 and TD3 with eris and a monkey with a keyboard will still not struggle with the deadline
twilit orbit
i was doing an erebus gate in tartarus once
positioned myself in the middle of all the enemy spawns and started charging spear spin
the enemy that appears right on top of me is a flamewheel
rip 😦
true fable
flame wheels are ez cheese
mossy zinc
They're both good for 32, anyway. I listed Eris, too.
true fable
just find a barrier
twilit orbit
they're just bad when they spawn on top of you
true fable
greatshields and strongbows are the only two enemies i consistently hate
twilit orbit
since they're the only enemy that has a hitbox when you touch them, I dont usually "avoid" standing on enemy spawn points
true fable
i see
mossy zinc
Chariots are the worst regular enemy type.
twilit orbit
its not bad at all in elysium because if the map has flamewheels they're often on the map already
mossy zinc
Witches can be very bad.
twilit orbit
witches are scary
true fable
theres just some weapons that reallly really struggle vs greatshields
twilit orbit
chariots are like my least favorite enemy type
true fable
i think it can be quite tough to play bows in elysium
twilit orbit
they have so much hp and are real fast
mossy zinc
Slam-Dancers can be really bad.
shy plinth
Fast hands tho
twilit orbit
btw am I misremembering or can erebus gates spawn minibosses sometimes?
sly remnant
elysium erebus gates yea
twilit orbit
because I think I remember one or two runs with really bad minibosses
mossy zinc
Yeah, especially if they also have Speeder. They give you no time to do anything.
twilit orbit
do the erebus gate minibosses have BP?
rough gull
erebus with FO2 BP2 armored numbskulls make me sad
sly remnant
speeder FO2 slam dancers have ended soooooo many runs
mossy zinc
Erebus spawns Superelites. Doesn't spawn minibosses exactly.
twilit orbit
maybe the new high heat meta is going to be taking abyssal blood :>
slow down those speeders
sly remnant
oh right they are like the EM4 spawns
mossy zinc
Superelites can have BP.
mossy zinc
Yeah, only in Erebus.
mossy zinc
Fast hands tho
They were very annoying at first, but I kinda got used to them by now. The good thing about Wringers is their behavior is very predictable.
Worst case, they thankfully don't deal a lot of damage.
shy plinth
Yeah as long as you're not getting railroaded by something else if they immobilize
shy plinth
Speeder cloner anything is unpleasant tho
sly remnant
eh you just pop skulls (assuming dc levels)
twilit orbit
okay but the worst thing is speeder + savior on any melee enemy
gaunt fiber
I think I'm just used to Tartarus lol
mossy zinc
@gaunt fiber Guan Yu has great tools for Tartarus to be fair.
mossy zinc
25 HP, for once. It's all the HP you'll ever need.
sly remnant
dio beo is very much just a "get out of tartarus and you have a run" weapon
so i have a particular hatred for tartarus BP
mossy zinc
That's usually the problem for me at 45+ lol. Getting out of Tartarus.
sly remnant
its why rama owns. it does not care about tartarus
i mean obviously it does, but its much less compared to most aspects
charred pecan
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/611394235857371136/783782523477033010/unknown.png?width=1194&height=671
After taking this chat's advice I am back to Hades on 32 for the third time, this time no CP, no EM4, with TD2 not an issue. I will say only having a single SD is extremely scary.
gaunt fiber
You got it
mossy zinc
Get out of Tartarus > don't die before getting Divine Dash in Asphodel > don't get murdered by Chariots > "oops got hit by solo Asterius spin2win lol how did that happen" > don't time out > "oops, urn"
tidal flame
You got it. But SD LC route isn't the only way out...
mossy zinc
@charred pecan good luck!
tidal flame
I'm surprised people recommended that to you at 32 heat
shy plinth
8 minutes, full acorn? I believe
atomic junco
It looks so hard...
sly remnant
the only thing thats questionable is HS over JS1
dire steppe
i have a lot of issues leaving tartarus with rama
it’s easiest on achilles or eris for me
tidal flame
it is hard. I get that people have different preferences
mossy zinc
I assume nobody mentioned that you can get free DDs from Lady Athena if you revive with SD before picking up a boon from her.
atomic junco
No heal, just +20% speed and 7 minutes
tidal flame
but I think SD at 32 is overkill
fathom cloud
I just followed the SD LC advice here and got my first 32. Seems decent. Not sure how well I'm trading off heat to avoid JS / CP though.
sly remnant
SD makes rooms immensely less frustrating
mossy zinc
I think SD is fine. A lot of people have done that for their first 32 after struggling with DDs.
dire steppe
how bout AP2 RI4 TD3 EM4 JS3 CP2 for 32 heat
sly remnant
someone will take that seriously rigged
mossy zinc
Sounds good to me except I have barely any practice in EM4.
dire steppe
I’m scared of FO
gaunt fiber
It's not a meme when I get one shot
dire steppe
i always hl5fo0
fathom cloud
Dad damage is scary with high HL
sly remnant
its scarier with FO
yea he hits like a truck but he's a truck who can't go past 10 miles an hour
charred pecan
dire steppe
i vibe with FO0, abyssal blood, demeter, and dionysus
mossy zinc
We used to do HL5 practically every high-heat run until we realized that taking double damage is maybe not the smartest idea on everything. It's still very common, though.
gaunt fiber
Sure but you can say that for every pact condition lol, the most dangerous things are combos
mossy zinc
@charred pecan congratulations!
shy plinth
Grats Mage
dire steppe
i feel like bp2 makes the game a lot harder but it’s also the default
mossy zinc
I think some aspects do better with HL0 FO2, and others do better with HL5 FO0.
dire steppe
i mean like turn on bp0 and you will never die to a normal room again
gaunt fiber
i think this channel massively underrates the effect of bp2
Nah we just have to live with it
mossy zinc
At 40+, you're probably gonna take both regardless.
sly remnant
ye thats absolutely true
sly remnant
if you are doing BP0 i'm curious why LC4 is desired over HL5?
the only place you are gonna take damage is a boss fight and you'll be able to heal right after
mossy zinc
For fun.
sly remnant
ah. gotcha
mossy zinc
I also want to actually test all those "bad combos" to see how bad they really are.
shy plinth
Like bad heat combos?
mossy zinc
Yeah.
shy plinth
Feels like a good number of them are TD3 and... things
mossy zinc
LC4 RI4 was supposed to be really bad. It was pretty chill with Guan Yu yesterday.
true fable
add DC2 and BP for good measure
shy plinth
On Arthur
mossy zinc
RI4 TD3 32 has been chill except on shield I've timed out every time.
sly remnant
i mean RI4 is as manageable as RI can be until you start doing BP and AP
its still RI4
which is rough
mossy zinc
You can.
true fable
should we add an option for randomized challenge runs
mossy zinc
@true fable no way to even check that your pacts were random.
sly remnant
good bye caring about TD3
sly remnant
i think i'll stick to grinding 50 heat
i had dthe run in the bag yesterday
i've decided not to run any levels of CF at 50 for dio beo
sly remnant
correct
you gotta roll in chaos
it makes getting out of tartarus harder, but you have trouble getting out of tartarus anyways
once you get that +1 cast and some boons. its gogogo
gaunt fiber
Highroll boi
mossy zinc
I haven't been able to make it out of Tartarus with RI4 TD3 Beowulf in most attempts lol.
sly remnant
i can't imagine doing it with RI4 on beo
whats the build? you basically don't have casts
mossy zinc
I used to do RI3 with Charged Flight in Blood Price. Was very doable.
mossy zinc
whats the build? you basically don't have casts
Apparently not one of the builds I've tried. 
proud jay
charged flight was all kinds of busted tho
mossy zinc
You still have 1 Infernal Cast that can do some work with RI3+.
Trippy Flare is just awful.
Anything else can kind of work. I think I've been having the most success starting with Eternal Rose.
proud jay
passion flare is pretty nice
mossy zinc
It is. And Heartbreak Flourish can also help a lot through Tartarus if you happen to not get the Cast.
dire steppe
https://prnt.sc/vuktlq will try this setup LUL
sly remnant
LMFAO
dire steppe
i think that's the worst 32 possible
gaunt fiber
No TD no problem
sly remnant
CP2 or AP2 would be aspect dependent
dire steppe
But theres both ap2 and cp2 on
proud jay
CP isn't
cedar thistle
i think there are worse 32
sly remnant
lmao what would it be
proud jay
wait nvm
gaunt fiber
EM4 CP2 good luck folks
cedar thistle
death by 1000 cuts, RI4, LC4 combination of something.
pref with CP2, JS3, TD3
no EM no problem
static dock
What program / site does he use for the heat calculator?
dire steppe
ri4lc4 needs ap2 otherwise i take skelly and cheese with stubborn roots
sly remnant
eh. don't you just pick a weapon that clears trash well
static dock
Oh got it
cedar thistle
hmm
true fable
nyaanyaa im doing some pretty early RI4 only attempts on beowulf
eternal rose start seems good
sly remnant
you'd have to do eternal rose on RI4
mossy zinc
I think Gigaros deals really well with it.
static dock
sly remnant
i think the site loves RI4 for some reason
static dock
32 Heat for Shackle and Hestia (or something else)
sly remnant
i love EM3 when i get bfly ball
mossy zinc
No reason to do RI at all.
sly remnant
wdym
true fable
you dont need to take RI at all
static dock
I mean, I don't suffer from RI2 at all
sly remnant
don't take RI until you are doing 50 your sanity will thank you
true fable
you have a 10000 km sniper rifle
static dock
Yeah 😛
static dock
True that
mossy zinc
I changed my mind, use this. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/782268720479207474/Hades_1177.png?width=791&height=445
true fable
stop
sly remnant
lmao nyaa
true fable
have you been taking lucky tooth on RI4 btw nyaanyaa
mossy zinc
Nope.
sly remnant
with no FO you'll never get hit i think
true fable
i meant more for beo
sly remnant
eh i think the timer is the problem
cedar thistle
https://imgur.com/a/NGGBorG
worse 32 i can think of. at least for me..
mossy zinc
The problem with Beowulf was always just the timer, yeah.
sly remnant
i think you need damage
mossy zinc
me every time I post a screenshot like that for 32-Heat recommendations:
true fable
shackle start?
sly remnant
pray for a good well in styx maybe?
mossy zinc
I guess maybe Shackle start in Tartarus could work out for shield.
@sly remnant me too.
I also hope they make it.
mossy zinc
But then I can't take the Eternal Rose, and then what's the point of playing Hades. 
nobody uses it yet it's awesome
true fable
passion flare start is kind of nice
mossy zinc
true fable
you can just play it like infernal soul beowulf but worse
mossy zinc
I don't have Discord Nitro and m not gonna get it either lol.
mossy zinc
It is when it could buy me food that I happen to need in order to survive.
I like not-starving.
gaunt fiber
Not starving is nice
mossy zinc
Right? Underrated high-heat strat for sure.
gaunt fiber
Is life high heat?
mossy zinc
I think we do more dying than living at high heat.
But Lady Demeter keeps wanting to give Zagreus food.
She must know what's up. Food is important.
gaunt fiber
You think Demeter has discord nitro?
true fable
you think dem has discord
gaunt fiber
She might
shy plinth
Demeter has IRC
gaunt fiber
IRC nitro then
mossy zinc
Lady Demeter has FB and is judging you for your friend list.
gaunt fiber
No FB no judgment
mossy zinc
"Why aren't you on Facebook, grandson? Do you not have friends?"
true fable
"stop being a loser, little sprout"
shy plinth
"Suggested Friends: Theseus"
gaunt fiber
Hey
shy plinth
clicks ignore
gaunt fiber
Stop it
mossy zinc
"You died to EM4 with the Frost Fair Blade again? I expect more from my grandson."
mossy zinc
I don't know why that one was so specific.
true fable
that was oddly specific
gaunt fiber
oddly
true fable
cant think of anyone it could be aimed at though
rain sedge
gaunt fiber
anyone
true fable
must have been a general statement
rain sedge
I should change my name to be less salty
gaunt fiber
general
mossy zinc
Yeah, why not something more positive.
rain sedge
mhm
mossy zinc
"2-sack appreciator"
true fable
LOL
rain sedge
im gonna do chill things like RI4 32
rain sedge
for the comedic value the next time someone ask for 32 setup
true fable
theyre fun
mossy zinc
I like that it's slowly catching on.
rain sedge
eris is fr-- I mean it's not easy but easier than most
sly remnant
eh isn't hestia nuts for boonless mirrorless
rain sedge
I'm talking about your 50
rain sedge
tbh at 50 just use whatever youre most comfortable with
retrash proved that it can be done with zag sword so anything would work
rain sedge
on beo?
sly remnant
yea
rain sedge
it's not as trivial as you think, either
true fable
requires less parts
rain sedge
tag us when you post it on victory boasting
static dock
I still need any trinket... What's the best trinket ?
gaunt fiber
tbh at 50 just use whatever youre most comfortable with
So Eris for me, ok thanks
true fable
I still need any trinket... What's the best trinket ?
? just use god trinkets to force
if you already have your build use the shackle/meg keepsake if you want damage, or acorn if you need safety
static dock
I don't mean keepsakes, I mean the thing you get from good relation
true fable
meg/dusa/achilles are all good for different things
pastel badge
@true fable Haelian tried my 'The Diogenes' earlier, almost 1 shot it.
true fable
yeah i saw a bit of it
pastel badge
Have you done it?
true fable
you are the famed creator?
pastel badge
Yea
pastel badge
Haelian had Twin and Perfect Shot
pastel badge
So it's more accessible
true fable
fair enough
pastel badge
Anything past the base requirements i consider The Diogenes+
mossy zinc
It's just RI4 HL5 AP2 with any Zag Aspect, no?
true fable
RI4/AP2/HL5/HS with zag aspect and shackle yeah
true fable
i want to add CF2 and UC to stay on the historical diogenes ascetic brand
mossy zinc
Sounds easy enough.
pastel badge
The Diogenes
Keepsake: Shattered Shackle (24/7)
Pact: HL5, HS, RI4, AP2
Weapon: Any Zag Aspect
Companion: Any
Unseeded
Yeah, i tried to keep it accessible.
Bow is obviously going to be the best. I think Fists are a hidden gem with the dodge.
true fable
might be a bit high rolly for second wind/greater evasion
pastel badge
If Krasher thinks it's worthy of the high heat/challenge doc, i don't mind maintaining the singular tab. Until then i'm using my own doc to keep track of runs.
true fable
we have a new doc now actually
but i guess diogenes wouldnt reach the 32 heat requirement
pastel badge
Okay nice. This is much more visually appealing
mossy zinc
We have a mirrorless category already, I don't think making another one just for a variation would be worth it. I dunno.
pastel badge
Doesn't sound like it.
mossy zinc
I guess people can add "Diogenes challenge" in the notes when they submit their run?
pastel badge
Yeah
shy plinth
Notes field is kind of a good catch-all
If something gets popular enough we can break it out
Tbh mirrorless and boonless could probably be combined into a single tab
mossy zinc
They're pretty different.
honest kernel
Combining them into a "Challenges" tab sounds like something that could be done
shy plinth
They're different but both categories are listed in the challenge column, doesn't hurt to keep em separate though
Outside of like mobile scrolling
mossy zinc
They're different leaderboards.
shy plinth
I defer to the current boonless mirrorless world champion
mossy zinc
Thank you. 💗
pastel badge
I'll keep a master sheet for The Diogenes either way.
Sucks the heat number is 19 lmao
@mossy zinc Why do google forms use m/d/y for dates 
shy plinth
You can actually change it apparently https://support.google.com/docs/thread/3080777?hl=en&msgid=8218053
pastel badge
Any end game OSRS players here?
mossy zinc
Any what?
pastel badge
Oldschool Runescape. I'm conceptualizing a new heat challenge.
Based loosely on The Inferno from it.
rain sedge
yea I've learned to never take trials unless its in ashpodel
at 45+
hell even at 40 I skip tartarus ones
rain sedge
it's hard for a variety of reasons... you're low HP, you're low power, you're pushed against TD time
unless it's something like my core god and athena I almost always never risk it
and when I take it I'm prepared to lose anyway, it's high risk high reward
mossy zinc
I like trials at 45+ depending on what you can get etc.
gaunt fiber
You guys skip trials?
worn hatch
Speaking of TD, is there anything people should know about TD other than "git gud"? I can beat the mid 20s heat with TD2, but I can't even beat TD3 with nothing else
dire steppe
i love how the gods are like you shouldn’t mess with me when they kill you
true fable
Speaking of TD, is there anything people should know about TD other than "git gu...
have you seen wriste13's speedrunning basics guide on youtube?
worn hatch
I eventually want to do some higher heat stuff (new player)
nope I have not, will look up
true fable
i would go ahead and check that out, it covers a lot of the things needed to "go fast"
mossy zinc
worn hatch
❤️
mossy zinc
That was me. Can confirm it worked.
worn hatch
it's funny how that works sometimes
mossy zinc
I dunno. You had the times to do TD3, you were just scared.
true fable
yeah once you figure out builds you reach a certain power level where TD3 doesnt bother you with the right heat modifiers
mossy zinc
But it's like, if you die to TD you just try again. You'll get better.
true fable
obviously JS3/CP2/DC2 all change that slightly
worn hatch
every athletic world record is followed by people who instantly beat the old record but not the new one now that they know it's possible
gaunt fiber
I dunno. You had the times to do TD3, you were just scared.
me never scared
sly remnant
Yo does pulverized blow only work on standing still attack
mossy zinc
That's not a real hammer upgrade, so I can't help you.
sly remnant
Well I was trying it out for popping DC hearts
mossy zinc
Unrelated, did you know Pulverizing Blow only works on the regular Attack?
mossy zinc
It's pretty good.
sly remnant
But you have to be standing still
mossy zinc
You also have to play shield.
true fable
pulverizing is very good for zeus shield
gaunt fiber
gotta start somewhere
true fable
10 minutes is probably the first big plateau for anyheat
but that's more speedrunning stuff than high heat
static dock
Yeah I noticed sorry wrong channel
sly remnant
I could see it making sense for zeus shield
mossy zinc
There's no speedrun channel lol don't worry.
sly remnant
But it seems crap on everything else
mossy zinc
Zag shield has excellent base damage on Attack.
sly remnant
Yea but then I have to play zag shield
mossy zinc
I haven't done sub 9, and I've done a lot of high heat stuff. You don't need speedrun records to make it in high heat.
But you should be able to do sub 15 with anything consistently at low heats.
true fable
on the other hand i've done sub 8 and struggle with TD sometimes :^)
mossy zinc
If you want to push high into the 40s.
rain sedge
I have a really good advice for TD
mossy zinc
Me? Anything sub 32 tbh lol. But in this case I was thinking of just whatever pacts you'd take for any heat.
mossy zinc
just don't get 5 sacced
Why don't you follow your own advice more often?
true fable
RIP schad
gaunt fiber
How does it feel Schad
true fable
its because you forgot to choose the fountain chambers
mossy zinc
I mean, getting 5-sacked isn't Schad's fault.
true fable
if i were to speedrun
rain sedge
How does it feel Schad
how does it feel to get 5 sacced multiple times on your desperate attempt to clear 40 while you got perfect builds?
true fable
i would simply walk into the fountain chambers
gaunt fiber
Yes
rain sedge
I believe the chat history can show how mald I am
mossy zinc
Unlike when you fail, @gaunt fiber. That's just entirely your own fault.
true fable
have you tried picking up the sack in the second tunnel schad
that usually helps with your time
gaunt fiber
I don't read mean things anymore
rain sedge
have you tried picking up the sack in the second tunnel schad
I forgot about that on my 09.12 run, so I picked it up on the 3rd one
true fable
IDK i've found that you usually go faster if you pick it up in the second tunnel
rain sedge
damn, should've done that
if only there's an option that do that in the game that doesnt entirely invalidate your entire gameplay if you're unlucky
mossy zinc
There is. It's called Eris.
rain sedge
anyway I'm gonna do RI4 eris for the next time someone ask what's the best 32 setup
I might do "worst heat setup" on eris eventually but
that'd be LC4 RI4 and I dont think I can do that
gaunt fiber
damn, should've done that
How do you choose your tunnels?
rain sedge
just get lucky in life apparently
dire steppe
i don’t get what’s up with the people who say “LC4 is overkill at 32 heat”
mossy zinc
LC4 RI4 without lifesteal sounds difficult.
gaunt fiber
I do heads or tails instead of thinking and it works
dire steppe
LC4 RI4 without lifesteal sounds difficult.
stubborn roots cheese
mossy zinc
LC4 at 32 imo is easier than putting those 4 points elsewhere.
dire steppe
skellY
rain sedge
yea I don't think it's worth the limited meme I'm gonna get out of this
I think RI4 is enough
mossy zinc
lol you can't get Stubborn Roots without a DD.
dire steppe
S k e l l y
mortal mango
is there a list of builds somewhere
rain sedge
there you go, first opportunity already presents itself
mossy zinc
Lucky Tooth and going for both gods + their Duo Boon somehow is not a real strategy lol.
dire steppe
in fairness LC4 RI4 is also not a real strategy