get lucky
#h1-high-heat-strategies
gaunt fiber
mossy zinc
The fourth rank of RI you barely notice. 
true fable
baj uses RI3 lol
dry flame
wait u barely notice RI4?
true fable
death defiances overrated tbh
honest kernel
That moment when the first run I did on stream I accidentally took DDs over SDs and got to Elysium lol
formal gust
jesus calm down
honest kernel
Autopilot too hard
formal gust
how do you not notice
formal gust
kept going for the meme?
formal gust
is achilles good for high heat
honest kernel
Hades is usually considered better
formal gust
what
formal gust
is it fun
honest kernel
It's cool
formal gust
wouldn't spin be suicide
honest kernel
Tailesque did a bunch of runs with it, if you want to see
You start with a spin to apply the damage debuff
You only bother with spin for the debuff lol
formal gust
then you just dash strike?
formal gust
so guan yu is less good than both
honest kernel
You want to see how hard Guan-Yu is, you look at Bablo's clip in the Speedrunning Discord
Goof up once, that's the run
honest kernel
Guan-Yu doubles down on it
And NEEDS hammers to scale as well as Hades or Achilles
spring kettle
Does GY have good hammers?
honest kernel
The others appreciate them a lot, but can actually fonction without
Charged Skewer
spring kettle
I don't like the spear hammers as much
formal gust
was gonna try to get chiron as my next 40+ but I may do rama instead
mossy zinc
lol Hades is considered better because that's what Tailesque uses.
formal gust
problem with rama is not getting punished
true fable
i want to do 50 heat achilles when test branch goes live
formal gust
when I'm charging
mossy zinc
I thought 40 Heat Achilles was really easy.
formal gust
what cast
true fable
lol
honest kernel
Achilles falls into the "I do very well with casts, and need specific things otherwise" to function
true fable
i did artemis start and hoped for one of four casts
mossy zinc
Crush Shot, Deadly Strike, Heart Rend.
honest kernel
Usually the bane of some aspects at high heat
true fable
artemis start was better for me in tartarus
honest kernel
Because at some point, RI, AP are going to need to be turned on. Even DC is a pain
mossy zinc
It works just fine with Attack tbh.
true fable
plus getting artemis in your pool early is always good
formal gust
how much do you use attack as rama
true fable
i also had flurry jab 
feral bone
ooo
mossy zinc
Flurry Jab is not available on Hades Aspect.
honest kernel
Rama flowchart goes like : Special a bunch to mark enemies -> Powershot with attack
feral bone
wish i had someone to hug uwu
mossy zinc
And it's super strong.
true fable
sigh
feral bone
ikr
formal gust
rama is one of the best aspects at high heat right
true fable
got a bunch of anyban runners in this channel recently huh
mossy zinc
Guan Yu flowchart goes like die > die > die > pick up Charged Skewer "maybe this is the run?"
honest kernel
Sort of
true fable
double nova
formal gust
double nova is pretty deec
mossy zinc
I don't like Nemesis even with Double Edge.
true fable
double divine flourish is apparently quite strong
formal gust
I don't like Nemesis even with Double Edge.
to be fair you have to have a really high iq to dash strike
true fable
effectively invulnerable
mossy zinc
I'd rather have Guan Yu with bad hammers than Nemesis with good hammers.
honest kernel
Not a bad idea
formal gust
would you take athena attack
true fable
could do some deadly reversal stuff with divine flourish + dash
i want to do more high heat arthur
last time i tried it was just death by 1000 papercuts
ripe crane
Take Athena on attack was the first Arthur advice I ever got. RIP Oversky 2019-2020.
true fable
i think they do a lot of modding now
crepes i saw ur reddit famous now
dont forget us
when you make it big
ripe crane
Ooooh yeah, got like two new twitch followers from that 😎
true fable
stonks
true fable
that sounds bad
honest kernel
don't
true fable
CP1 sounds much better than dc1
somber leaf
Oh really? I found it quite hard, it’s so slow
Which pacts and which build did you use? I’m running out of things to do in the game so I’m gonna aim for 32 heat with everything
mossy zinc
Surprisingly chill RI4 LC4 run. No recording this time, though. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/783419863493640234/Hades_1181.png?width=792&height=446
I healed up to max HP quite a few times lol.
mossy zinc
I could have easily added HS and like JS1 or something.
Well, obviously got lucky with Ambrosia Delight hitting Greatest Reflex and Rare Crop hitting Heartbreak Flourish in the next chamber.
rain sedge
What's a fun, unusual build for 20 ish? I've done all the high heat I need so going back to lows
formal gust
rama special build
mossy zinc
I dunno. Shackle?
formal gust
no attack
rain sedge
Ohhh yea rama
true fable
yeah rama all zeus special is fun
rain sedge
I'd do that
formal gust
does relentless work with rama
true fable
yes
rain sedge
I want to do shackle but I'm not on test branch
formal gust
isn't that like really really good
cedar thistle
special only arthur
true fable
relentless + swift flourish + zeus special is so fun
formal gust
relentless would be better than conc in that case I bet
how many arrows is normal rama special
mossy zinc
That run just now reminded me of how nice Frost Strike on Guan Yu actually is.
3 arrows.
formal gust
so relentless is over double special damage effectively
honest kernel
Assuming all the arrows hit lol
cinder cave
Well, obviously got lucky with Ambrosia Delight hitting Greatest Reflex and Rare...
nice highroll 
formal gust
and rama special doesn't have the zeus icd problem chiron has?
mossy zinc
Well, Ambrosia Delight was guaranteed to hit either Heartbreak Flourish or Greatest Reflex.
honest kernel
PATCH HYPE
true fable
patch is here brace urselves
main delta
what was the buff to abyssal blood?
ripe crane
patch is here brace urselves
Why would I use brace when I can use shackle
true fable
what do yall think about archiving? theyre still discussing it in the speed discord if you have an opinion one way or another
ripe crane
Dump those runs
true fable
LOL
mossy zinc
Hmmm. I dunno. It's a minor patch overall.
ripe crane
Dad keepsake tho
mossy zinc
There's not gonna be another one this year, but I expect there will be like 1 or 2 more minor balance patches like this.
Might as well wait for the final patch before archiving everything.
daring hedge
i think a blanket archive/dump would be rather hamfisted considering there are still runs that use weapons totally unaffected by the recent patch or didn't touch sigil
mossy zinc
Going through every run to check for that would be unreasonable, though.
daring hedge
it's unreasonable either way, really
tidal flame
rip
mossy zinc
I think archiving whenever the final patch hits might make sense.
ripe crane
Ehhhh how many runs deep do we really even need to check though
Nobody is gonna care if the run in 27th place used dad sigil
true fable
bablo those are such famous last words
dire steppe
Just wait for BP3
true fable
i think at least 32 heat should be archived imo since dad keepsake is still pretty prevalent
proud jay
could've taken my time there, keep distance and deflect with special
rain sedge
it's ok, once you get GY-arthur-gilga done you can do it all
I saw you getting screwed out of poseidon dash after 3 rolls
that was hard to watch
mossy zinc
@proud jay I think I told you DC2 was a bad idea. At least 1 of those 2 witches you hit in the corner + her clones would have been dead without DC.
proud jay
turns out GY is quite bad even without DC2
mossy zinc
I dunno. m way better with Guan Yu at 40 than with Stygius lol.
proud jay
still way more inconsistent than most other weapons
rain sedge
how far did you get on the reset?
rain sedge
was arthur that bad? would not have guessed that's the hardest 3
proud jay
struggles with FO2
mossy zinc
I did a chill LC4 RI4 earlier, by the way, just to see how it goes. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/783419863493640234/Hades_1181.png?width=792&height=446
rain sedge
people here were telling me to use arthur on 40 when I was malding about sword clear yesterday
mossy zinc
Yeah, m not a fan of Excalibur at 40+.
true fable
did you basically no hit then nyaanyaa
dire steppe
LC4RI4AP3
true fable
i didnt see the LC4 the first time
mossy zinc
I healed up to max a few times, but mostly lol.
rain sedge
how do you heal up to max with LC4?
true fable
oh GY
mossy zinc
Guan Yu.
rain sedge
oh
mossy zinc
Hmmm. I think in Tartarus I heal mostly on Thugs. Skullomats also make good healing targets.
Sometimes Pests or whatever the Tartarus variant is.
proud jay
right, so it's mostly enemy type dependant?
mossy zinc
Yeah, some are just a lot easier for that.
dire steppe
I hate to ask but is zag unironically the best sword now
Or is someone going to do nemesis 50+
true fable
retrash is the best sword now
mossy zinc
In Elysium, I mainly just heal on Greatshields after their spin and otherwise just on the naked shades.
daring hedge
nemesis 50 (seeded) has been done by a korean player
tidal flame
erm how will the old records for 50 heat be managed with the new patch
the patch doesn't exactly change those runs
true fable
that is the current question
honest kernel
Well both my runs are invalid
sly remnant
how bad is the eris nerf
daring hedge
why the squirtmeh crepes
honest kernel
First one used Athena Aid, second one got Sea Storm from Tidal dash
daring hedge
anyways it was fast, almost under 15 mins
dire steppe
rip Athena call abuser
mossy zinc
You should add your runs here, by the way. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=sharing
No one ever adds anything.
honest kernel
Because nobody knows about it
true fable
how bad is the eris nerf
the buff duration is just now 4 seconds instead of 8
mossy zinc
Or you can ping Krashercorr and wait a few months. 👀
sly remnant
the buff duration is just now 4 seconds instead of 8
oh so its still insane
tidal flame
mods pinning it might draw some tractions
true fable
we dont really have a consistent centralized place for high heat runs
tidal flame
but we already have krasher's pin also
true fable
yeah eris is barely different
sly remnant
i'll add my 50when it happens
rain sedge
can we pin yours instead nya
daring hedge
what did they seed, just dedge start?
piercing wave, surprisingly
honest kernel
wait WHAT
true fable
piercing wave is quite good
ripe crane
Piercing wave owns for tartarus
rain sedge
piercing wave, surprisingly
thats a weirdchamp seed
true fable
that is surprising thiugh
mossy zinc
I told Krashercorr that @daring hedge mentioned interest in modding the spreadsheet to verify runs, and Krashercorr just bounced again lol.
tidal flame
also is there a minimum heat requirement for that?
true fable
lol
rain sedge
we just need to ping the mod, not him
ripe crane
It's just a nice damage bonus all around
mossy zinc
also is there a minimum heat requirement for that?
Nope.
If you want to add 2 Heat as "high heat", who m I to stop you from being dead last. 
mossy zinc
That's a way to look at it.
ripe crane
I love spreadsheets and spreadsheet culture
tidal flame
I love spreadsheets
You love spreadsheets? Name every numbers.
ripe crane
Can I import all of the data from the current spreadsheet?
honest kernel
mossy zinc
Can I import all of the data from the current spreadsheet?
Except for the notes since those are Krashercorr's. But the data is just data, so you can copy that, I guess.
Only 1.0 runs, though.
rain sedge
stil no news about switch update pepelauhg
true fable
cross saves when
tidal flame
#consolelife
oblique lance
Yes, please update the sheet so people like me can copy 
mossy zinc
Mostly though, I'd prefer if people just added their own runs. And I don't really care to verify every run, community will do that anyway. We're not that many people.
Like if somebody adds a 50+ run, people are gonna watch that anyway.
oblique lance
I was going to ask why all runs were in august. Also it appears the aspect of Rama is the most popular for people that play in high heat?
rain sedge
Like if somebody adds a 50+ run, people are gonna watch that anyway.
unless your run was on switch and there's no video 🤣
dire steppe
will be sad when rama nerf to 50%
oblique lance
What's RI4?
dire steppe
What's RI4?
no mirror
oblique lance
oh ok
mossy zinc
Changed it to "No Mirror". I guess that's easier than explaining it every time lol.
oblique lance
I have been referring to the pinned sheet for aspects other than defaults btw. I think I still can't make sense of why some boons work on what weapon.
mossy zinc
To be honest, the why doesn't matter so much as long as it works lol.
rain sedge
sometimes people just use the boons they get
mossy zinc
And often, it's not that it's optimal but just that it's whatever they happened to get in the run and made work somehow.
oblique lance
There has to be a why though right?
mossy zinc
Yeah, what Schad said.
oblique lance
e.g. Why are most high heat runs with X boon on this aspect.
mossy zinc
Divine Dash? Because it works.
oblique lance
What if you position/dodge so well that you dont deflect?
tidal flame
Why does Tailesque take Repulse Shot for his 50+ heat clear?
Obviously because Repulse Shot is OP.
true fable
exactly
mossy zinc
Most typically it's: DPS, Deflect, clearing DC2 hearts.
true fable
same thing with cursed slash
mossy zinc
DPS + Weak for Heartbreak anything.
oblique lance
But yea I am playing at a very high heat of 3-4 and I have lost every single run the past few days after stubborn defiance to Hades second HP bar. So I am just trying to understand what the rationale is for boons <-> aspects so I can maybe try to clear with some of my favorite aspects.
true fable
i am on mobile cut me some slack
rain sedge
If you have specific questions, just ask here or in #h1-builds-and-combat , people are generally pretty friendly
some might give better advices than others
but at 3-4 heat usually anything works
true fable
its more about learning boss fight patterns at that point
mossy zinc
Exaclty, the Aspect of Athror.
true fable
have you considered DDs instead of SDs
mossy zinc
DDs are easier if you have difficulty with bosses, yeah.
We take SD at high heat to deal with LC4.
oblique lance
Who? me? I take stubborn defiance as I die a lot. And yea I usually ask in the builds channel but I was looking at the sheet and was searching for runs and just decided to butt into the conversation since there was a new sheet. Just trying to form an opinion of what's generally considered good based on people's results.
mossy zinc
Low heat is generally closer to speedrun meta, I would say. You can find some easy, broken builds there.
sly remnant
aight i'm gonna try drunken dash at 50 heat
rain sedge
or better still, just play what you find fun. it's the best part of the game
once you go to high heat it can get pretty frustrating
mossy zinc
Drunken Dash on what and what else?
sly remnant
you know i only play one weapon
rain sedge
aight i'm gonna try drunken dash at 50 heat
if you do this, you will dethrone Retrash from the throne of dreadful builds that shouldn't work at high heat, but somehoe works
zag sword 54 was pretty up there
oblique lance
Low heat is generally closer to speedrun meta, I would say. You can find some ea...
Where would that be? I only had this sheet and your guide for reference. I saw that babloization was a popular entry on the sheet but his youtube channel didn't have a lot of videos.
oblique lance
oh nice, thank you! This is what I had been looking for!
sly remnant
MOAR DAMAGE
honest kernel
BIG NUMBERS GOOD
honest kernel
YOU BET
drowsy berry
@mossy zinc and others, if there is a new sheet you want to use, we can help pin it for visibility.
Ideally, it's something that several active members of the community can collaborate on, so it's not beholden to a single person's availability.
Please @ or tag me if this channel ends up with consensus on something like that after discussion.
I love the High Heat content from @proud jay and others. I think the stuff this community does is amazing and so if there's some way you'd like to organize that we can add visibility to, please let us know.
true fable
i dont really agree with the idea of no verification but if we had like a small circle of people who could all verify rather than just 2 people i think it would be better
mossy zinc
I know that I don't have time to verify anything.
honest kernel
^
cinder cave
I love spreadsheets and spreadsheet culture
I wish that this would apply to more of my games tbh
ripe crane
Could just be a threshold for verification? Like over 50? Idk
cinder cave
The closest thing I've played to a spreadsheet game is Football Manager tho >.<
true fable
i suppose that's fair
maybe if someone submits an unverifiable run we just all point and laugh
sounds less time intensive
tidal flame
since we are talking spreadsheets and leaderboard. have anyone heard of the nuclear throne drama and horheristo?
mossy zinc
?
The only fraudulent runs that were on the board passed verification and were noticed by the community weeks later lol.
I don't think verification does anything but add a whole lot of work for some people with no gain. It's not like there's anything to win.
If you're top 10 with a fraudulent run, somebody will probably notice and point it out.
Same if you're top 1 with any aspect, probably.
rain sedge
I vote we make a new spreadsheet tbh, today's patch seems a good timing
by we, I mean you
it's a bit sad that we had these amazing runs in the past few weeks and it's kinda buried
because the old spreadsheet isn't updated
true fable
yeah i feel that
makes sense
im in favor of nyaanyaa's new spreadsheet with self adds
ripe crane
Why not
tidal flame
alrighty
cinder cave
old spreadsheet wasn't really going anywhere, new start sounds logical
you can make a legacy tab to copy from the old one
if you like
ripe crane
I would be in favor of including the early access ones on a separate tab also if we are unpinning krasher's sheet.
cinder cave
to give a nod to the old spreadsheet
ripe crane
1.0 runs would just be included with the current runs I would think?
cinder cave
personally I think it's logical to use this patch as a cutoff point, as a nod to Nyaanyaa's efforts
but I could also see 1.0 as the other arguable cutoff
tidal flame
my vote is cutting off at this patch tbh
cinder cave
spreadsheets require updating and verification
mossy zinc
1.0 is fine imo. The date is listed for every run.
cinder cave
and that's not 0 effort, not even close
tidal flame
the old spreedsheet can be an achive
true fable
1.0 is fine with me
cinder cave
react poll?
true fable
thereve been no major weapon altering changes
rain sedge
I'm not familiar enough with patches to comment, but I believe some patches use really broken builds
tidal flame
strawpoll time?
rain sedge
like ME on dash or something
true fable
thats pre 1.0 though
rain sedge
cool wasn't sure about the number
rain sedge
like today's patch changes things, but I dont think it invalidates old runs
tidal flame
My reasoning:
Old spreadsheet is already comprehensive and include some 1.0 stuff. Leave it be.
We start anew with this patch so everything on the same playground.
honest kernel
"Chaos Starburst" Why does this sound so nice lol
tidal flame
We don't lose anything anyhow.
true fable
"Chaos Starburst" Why does this sound so nice lol
coming to a store near you
rain sedge
I don't think anyone at high heat wins their heat because of an extra 0.3s on athena call pom scaling
cinder cave
there's no value lost, any old runs would be on a legacy tab in any case
honest kernel
I don't think anyone at high heat wins their heat because of an extra 0.3s on at...
You might want to check my 50 heat clear then lmao
rain sedge
legacy tab would be nice, not sure when "legacy" starts tho
true fable
there is some value lost, literally every 50+ heat run from now wouldnt be counted
rain sedge
but baj, your claim to glory isnt your 50 heat, it's your 55
true fable
despite the fact that 99% of them have no changes with this patch
mossy zinc
We didn't do mirrorless and boonless runs and all that just to not put them on the board lol.
true fable
i think 1.0 is the right cutoff point since most of the 50+ runs are not really impacted by this patch's changes
ripe crane
Early access to 1.0 is a big change. 1.0 to now is not. Nothing has happened since 1.0 came out that would invalidate any 1.0 runs.
cinder cave
I can see that argument
and if Nyaanyaa doesn't see any particular reason to use this patch as a cutoff
there's no reason that 1.0 isn't the most valid
true fable
agree 100% with crepes
rain sedge
I feel like 1.0 is valid, but add a column with patch number on it
mossy zinc
The date of each run in 1.0 is listed, and test-branch should be added in the notes if it's from the test branch. I already did that for my own runs.
true fable
date should be fine
rain sedge
like if they see baj's run and decide sea storm was somehow the deciding factor, they are free to think that
rain sedge
idk about date. I like patch number
put date if you want but also then put a list matching patch to dates
mossy zinc
You can't tell the patch number in 1.0 without the title screen.
tidal flame
just add patch numbers and we can start from 1.0
cinder cave
Why would date be a problem?
mossy zinc
Date is sufficient.
rain sedge
not a problem, just think that patch number is a better identifier
tidal flame
but we don't know when a patch hits
rain sedge
but if it's not easily identified, then too bad
tidal flame
date is useless if readers can't tell what's the difference
cinder cave
don't you just include both
tidal flame
if we do date then we have to add a legend for patch date
mossy zinc
Switch and PC are on different patches, too.
true fable
and see sea storm with tidal dash
cinder cave
It's just proper categorisation for posterity
rain sedge
only a clown will record on switch
cinder cave
:P
tidal flame
damn sea storm ruins everything
cinder cave
not but seriously
true fable
then you know it was on a patch where sea storm was possible off tidal dash
rain sedge
is there even anyone who uploaded their switch run
ripe crane
You can add patch numbers to my runs if you want. I'm only putting the date
cinder cave
that's what spreadsheeting is for right
you get all the info into one place and people can identify the run background
mossy zinc
And again, you can't tell the patch number without the title screen. It's not practical or I would have done that already.
cinder cave
Fair enough
rain sedge
there's already seeded or unseeded category
ripe crane
I'm going to import this old data now.
rain sedge
ping amir then?
rain sedge
what's the spreadsheet again nya?
mossy zinc
Hades High Heat Leaderboard
rules: #h1-high-heat-strategies message
leaderboard: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=sharing
cinder cave
can i offer 1 suggestion please
for EU vs US
can dates be just consistent
with months being written in words e.g. october november
tidal flame
ISO 8601
mossy zinc
It will autoformat the dates.
cinder cave
great
rain sedge
noice we get it going
@north dove @honest kernel wanna add your crazy runs recently to the list?
@ripe crane 50 boonless on the no boons tab?
not sure who else did wild stuff recently
I'm sure bablo will add his on the speedrun community's table
true fable
i will add a 40 heat boneless beowulf soon
mossy zinc
Could you not put "1.0" before every tab? That's implied if there's an Early Access category. Also, I'd rather we link to Krashercorr's list for Early Acces rather than just copy all of that unless he gives explicit permission.
I need to sleep anyway. It's 12 a.m.
Runs can be added in any and all categories they're eligible for btw.
honest kernel
Soo
As far as the ordering goes
How do we proceed
Heat first, Date second. Most recent first or no ?
rain sedge
order by heat
cinder cave
heat first
rain sedge
yeah by heat, then if heat is equal, by date
cinder cave
people can reorder by spreadsheet function
mossy zinc
Heat first, oldest first.
cinder cave
after as well obvs
honest kernel
Gotcha
mossy zinc
Then just alphabetically by weapon, aspect, player I guess.
rain sedge
@drowsy berry Hey Amir, we got the spreadsheet up an running. Do you mind pinning it in favour of the old spreadsheet please? Thanks
true fable
should we keep a backup in case some troll nukes it or am i being paranoid
rain sedge
google sheet records previous versions
rain sedge
you can see version history
mossy zinc
You can make a backup once a week or something if you want. It's not a bad idea.
honest kernel
Added my 2 runs in
rain sedge
it's fine google-chan does that automatically
mossy zinc
Also good in case I disappear, not that I have any intention of doing that.
rain sedge
maybe I can do eris 50 on PC and submit it there for some dubious clout
mossy zinc
it's fine google-chan does that automatically
That doesn't help if one person decides to mess with it every few hours or something and I am not around to stop it. A backup would safeguard against it.
rain sedge
if you press ctrl-shift-alt-h on the sheet you'll see what I mean
if said person mess with it every few hours, the messed up versions will be there... along the clean version before that
mossy zinc
I know how to show the history.
prime cairn
If you guys are replicating the functionality of the existing High Heat spreadsheet, I recommend having a few people with edit access, not just 2 like last time.
ripe crane
It is public, anyone can edit it
tidal flame
we are a very trusting community huh
prime cairn
Oh that might be a little too wide open but ok!
rain sedge
I know how to show the history.
we can name the versions I guess, but I don't see how this can be unrecoverably trolled
tidal flame
is there anyway to back up the spreadsheet?
ripe crane
We are slightly less competitive than speedrunning. People will notice if the top heats are cheating.
rain sedge
yea name the version of the file, but it's autosaved
prime cairn
Also, is there any functionality on speedrun 32+/40+/50+ heat categories we need?
mossy zinc
@rain sedge they can just keep messing with it. m the only person who can change permissions.
rain sedge
I guess there can be persistent trolls
ripe crane
Also, is there any functionality on speedrun 32+/40+/50+ heat categories we need...
Allow hell mode for 50 (or 40 maybe even)?
mossy zinc
So a backup would be good for that. I think the odds of that happening are very low, but it wouldn't hurt if somebody does it.
honest kernel
On the top of my head, I could think of a way to filter by heat level like with time.
Hell Mode being allowed would also be a nice thing
prime cairn
There's a few reasons that's not enabled, when I get to my computer I'll copy out all the info from mod chat about the why there
mossy zinc
Oh that might be a little too wide open but ok!
The only fraudulent runs we had so far passed verification anyway and the community noticed a couple weeks later lol.
drowsy berry
Hello -- is the link above the one that this community agrees to? Can I get some emojis to confirm?
prime cairn
So for full context @drowsy berry, this spreadsheet is to replace the other High Heat spreadsheet dubbed the two mods of it went AFK on it
There's also the high heat categories on speedrun.com where for can post their achievements (regardless of how fast)
ripe crane
There's a few reasons that's not enabled, when I get to my computer I'll copy ou...
I can't think of anything else people here have wanted for the high heat speedruns other than hell mode tbh
drowsy berry
@tidal flame and @true fable -- do you have real reservations?
tidal flame
that was joke xD
drowsy berry
Or is this like...a Pact of Punishment situation.
tidal flame
sorry
drowsy berry
**Hades High Heat Leaderboard**
rules: https://discord.com/channels/456889434672...
It's pinned.
tidal flame
it is done
mossy zinc
That sounds like a real pact of punishment, trying to manage us.
rain sedge
Amir PogU
mossy zinc
Thank you! 💗
rain sedge
if someone persistently trolled the spreadsheet we can change the permissions around
nya, probably a good idea to give amir permission-management-permission
drowsy berry
Please don't!
rain sedge
just in case you disappear
drowsy berry
It's yours!
tidal flame
yeah. amir probably has his plate full
give it to Tail tbh
well respected, high heat runner, etc etc. if Tail wants it,
rain sedge
I've named this version as a "backup"
ripe crane
Tail is good choice
drowsy berry
Whatever you do, I recommend trying to make sure multiple people can help with it!
tidal flame
tail or bablo also.
rain sedge
I agree with tail, not sure if bablo wants any part of this, being a speedrunner mod and all
north dove
Cool, I'll add my runs whenever I get the chance
rancid spindle
So do you need to have video evidence in order to get added to the spreadsheet
tidal flame
yeah.
honest kernel
That was the idea of the original spreadsheet, so we are keeping this idea in mind
rain sedge
time to buy PC version for some eris 50 repeat then
you know I might even do more than 50
mossy zinc
I was thinking of adding an "Honorable Mentions" tab for those runs that only have a screenshot.
honest kernel
That'd be dope
shy plinth
So I know y'all just worked on stuff, but spreadsheets are kind of a passion project of mine and this one looks like it has a lot of manual entry - I mocked up a working copy here that would be based on form submission and automatic sorting if anyone wants to take a look at it, could easily implement in current sheet. I ported over your existing data to give an idea of what it would look like
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tuJmY3rfVyW810ZZ50JxKpAsGJE2a27aQdofKL1H6aw/edit#gid=1007861342 Sheet
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdPMjbxcWvKLyh9jU83wAeJjzMPevuas4p6oO1QptH26CESkA/viewform Form
Auto-sorts by heat, then date, color codes by weapon
User would only need to fill out the form and boom it populates, feel free to try it
shy plinth
I've been working on my RI5
tidal flame
ok this new sheet looks nice
honest kernel
Memes aside, I like this new one
shy plinth
Don't want to impose but it does all the sorting magically
tidal flame
can we implement this @mossy zinc ?
shy plinth
Manual entry is the devil
mossy zinc
Gonna get some sleep. I'll read through everything tomorrow.
ripe crane
Form is nice, colors less so
shy plinth
That's def changeable, I picked random ones just to make dif weapons stand out
tidal flame
Yeah. We can slowly improve this. Where is that 69 heat completion though
honest kernel
We maybe could do a colors based on heat
tidal flame
The link to that should be a rick roll lmao
mossy zinc
Sounds good with a submission form. I didn't know how to do something like that myself. Not gonna look at it now, though, I have school in 8 hours lol.
shy plinth
Oh missed opportunity
Yeah I'm glad to support, this is... kind of what I do, y'all can focus on playing the game ez
tidal flame
nite!
shy plinth
Sleep well 🙂
drowsy berry
I can pin the new one if you like it more
tidal flame
I think we will try to implement it to the current one, if Nyaa can manage the time.
ripe crane
It is something that can be implemented into the already pinned sheet
drowsy berry
How about this!
Why don't you guys work on this, and I'll check in with @shy plinth, @mossy zinc and the others here to make sure it's doing what you want.
If you need a re-pin, we can do that too.
shy plinth
Thank you sir 🙂
true fable
hey amir! it was less of a real concern and more of just making sure we had a contingency plan for worst case scenario
in favor of the spreadsheet
mossy zinc
I don't like colors because that's difficult to make work for color-blind people. Should definitely have both text and colors for things like that if there are colors. And try to make the color palette color-blind friendly.
shy plinth
I implemented a no-colors tab
Will probs just roll with alternating gray banding for readability
mossy zinc
Interesting. I like the idea, I'll look at everything after school tomorrow. Good night!
honest kernel
Take care, Nyaa
rain sedge
hmmm if I get 51 I can be top 10
do we take hell mode saves?
I might buy PC and start a new hell mode save
ripe crane
No colors tab is nice. Left aligned notes would likely be easier to read. Maybe also for the weapon/aspect? not sure on that one.
Gonna try the form
honest kernel
Form's easy to complete
Ordering might need a bit of rework ?
Most recent run shows up first
Is it what we want
rain sedge
o.O
honest kernel
Heat is sorted fine
rain sedge
sort it by heat surely
honest kernel
I was talking about specifically the date after the heat level
shy plinth
It's currently highest heat->newest date
honest kernel
Yeah
shy plinth
Would you prefer oldest
north dove
Heat first, if same heat oldest first
somber leaf
Do people tend to do EM4 when going for 32 heat?
honest kernel
highest heat->oldest date sounds good
shy plinth
Done
rain sedge
Do people tend to do EM4 when going for 32 heat?
issa hard no
honest kernel
Do people tend to do EM4 when going for 32 heat?
No
ripe crane
Do people tend to do EM4 when going for 32 heat?
no
gaunt fiber
Got 3 good runs in a row ! Almost made it to phase 3 (one 4sack, one Elysium charged skewer). Maybe I can make it in a few hours.
ripe crane
I used the form but my run didn't get added 😦
shy plinth
@ripe crane looks like form populated your f3
true fable
im confused, do we still add our boonless runs manually
shy plinth
5th from top
I haven't implemented anything else yet but would be glad to add any qualifiers to the form
Boonless, no mirror, whatever
north dove
maybe a small icon for each weapon if that's possible?
true fable
RT^
somber leaf
Bahaha that was fast, thanks guys. I’ve been doing EM4 in all my runs and I’m getting fairly comfortable with him, but he still usually eats through my DD
ripe crane
mmmm no I submitted a 53 and it didn't populate
shy plinth
Yeah just go to the pinned one now
honest kernel
Yeah
true fable
okay
true fable
im gonna just sit on this until it's all sorted and pinned
shy plinth
Baj you should be able to edit your entry
honest kernel
It was in there by default
shy plinth
Oh I copied it over didn't I
honest kernel
Yeah
shy plinth
Update it on the form submissions tab in G column or put notes here and I'll paste in
honest kernel
Read-Only
shy plinth
Oh derp lol
true fable
as an aside i think a good way to avoid needing backups is just locking the sheet since people can add things via form anyway
shy plinth
Yeah the point of the form submission is to lock the sheet basically
And then trusted folks can edit and fix
true fable
yeah i think that would be best
honest kernel
You could erase the entry
shy plinth
Kk
honest kernel
and I'll resubmit it
honest kernel
Yup
Also, another question
Link to the Google Form submission thing
Where do we get it from the sheet
true fable
we can probably just have both things pinned in this channel right
north dove
So you can only submit verifiable unseeded right now yeah?
true fable
RIP that poseidon sword clear
north dove
Yup 
mossy zinc
I can edit the pinned message to add the submission form tomorrow when it's all set up.
true fable
verifiable in our hearts retrash
daring hedge
heat sheet revival 👀
mossy zinc
It should add runs to all categories they're eligible for.
shy plinth
Added a dropdown for unseeded/seeded/boonless/mirrorless/boonless+mirrorless
Unless checkboxes would work better
true fable
maybe have unseeded vs seeded be one dropdown
and then the others as checkbox
if that's possible
mossy zinc
Boonless + mirrorless should go into all three categories and potentially into unseeded.
shy plinth
I can def do the filtering/populating easily, just a question of what we want for user choice
daring hedge
sure! just to make sure, the form automatically adds the run info to the sheet, and editors would just be able to directly fix any issues or manually add runs when needed?
shy plinth
Correct, and manual addition will usually just be clearing old entry and resubmitting
But we can add a note or something
true fable
yeah i meant on the form
daring hedge
right
true fable
have one section to indicate seeded vs unseeded
and then another section to check off challenge stuff
ooo
i had a thought and then realized it would be form hell
radio buttons for pacts
shy plinth
Lol I can do that but it will be labor intensive and probably result in some people not filling out the sheet
true fable
yeah im not a fan
shy plinth
I think we can see if people add that info in the notes
And if they do we can consider building it out
true fable
it was a dumb idea haha
shy plinth
Of course! Thanks for letting a lurker roll in and help out with a dope game 🙂
I can't push 50s yet so instead I started a hades podcast and made some spreadsheets
honest kernel
A podcast ? 👀
tidal flame
Do a 40 heat speedrun and sign your name on the board
true fable
hadescast?
honest kernel
Bouldycast?
shy plinth
Excellent names
It's called "Hidden aspects"
But I don't want to turn this into self-promotion lest Amir smite me
true fable
put it in self promos
shy plinth
Marvelous
north dove
I believe this spreadsheet is now pin-worthy
mossy zinc
It's pinned lol.
shy plinth
So the goal here once we're all happy is to pretty much lock the whole thing down and then share access with whoever will be editing, it'll all be populated through forms
Someone typed in the forms tab if people should have access lol
honest kernel
So like
shy plinth
Oh yeah we can filter by heat minimums or just make it so the form won't take anything below 40
Also possible
honest kernel
... I was gonna ask about the minimum heat yeah
rain sedge
boonless mirrorless we should take 32 onwards
mossy zinc
32 is fine tbh. Some fun challenges you can do at 32.
shy plinth
Added a filter for the main unseeded and seeded sheets to show 40+
mossy zinc
Hmm. That doesn't let people add interesting challenge runs below 40.
shy plinth
32 works
honest kernel
Mirrorless/Boonless have their own tabs
true fable
hey if someone wants to submit their 32 heat chaos shield slog who am i to stop them
we've all been there
mossy zinc
^
rain sedge
hey if someone wants to submit their 32 heat chaos shield slog who am i to stop ...
I still don't see why chaos shield is so good btw
mossy zinc
It's not.
rain sedge
my 40 chaos didn't feel that much better than the zag shield 40
MAYBE like 10% better
true fable
there's a 30 minute IGT run on the speedrun leaderboards. i don't think quality control is that necessary when everyone's gonna pay attention to the runs that interest them (e.g. top 10, boonless/mirrorless)
i think 32 is a good point to cut it off though
mossy zinc
People still overrate it because it was top tier in Early Access. It's okay, though.
Still a shield that can block. Not the best for TD3.
mossy zinc
there's a 30 minute IGT run on the speedrun leaderboards. i don't think quality ...
There's also a 19 min 32 Heat mirrorless. 
ripe crane
Maybe the form additions should just be for unseeded because it will be by far the most used. People can manually add to the other categories?
Idk I work with spreadsheets 8 hours a day, I don't need to look at anymore, I'm sure y'all can figure it out
shy plinth
We could assume unseeded and then have checkboxes for seeded/boonless/mirrorless
rain sedge
sounds like an accountant
mossy zinc
You said you like spreadsheets.
shy plinth
Also I protected the autosort tabs and form submission to avoid accidental breakage
prime cairn
@gaunt fiber Today at 9:56 AM
That means I can't add 40 GY runs, one for each heat
You can on the speedrun.com board if you like (40 heat and up).
shy plinth
Just as a temp measure
mossy zinc
Boonless and mirrorless are presumed to be unseeded, too.
ripe crane
sounds like an accountant
Correct
mossy zinc
I don't care to separate seeded and unseeded for those challenge categories. Would rather just decline seeded runs for them tbh.
shy plinth
Right now I have both as options but can easily filter them out of display
mossy zinc
But I'll let people discuss. I really should sleep.
ripe crane
You said you like spreadsheets.
I do! And I became an accountant specifically because I like spreadsheets. But I like them less so after looking at them all day
gaunt fiber
> <@!238040913715265537> Today at 9:56 AM
That means I can't add 40 GY runs, one...
Sure, but I meant to flood the spreadsheet with random GY runs lol, nothing serious
shy plinth
Alright, I copied over all the data from the other sheets and populated them into the form/autosort sheets. Looks like everything is working and new form submissions appear to be populating too. But any questions lmk
shy plinth
"No audio, no athena"?
honest kernel
Yeah
shy plinth
It's there
honest kernel
Don't see it on my end
shy plinth
Autosort unseeded third from the top
gaunt fiber
No audio%
left jackal
anyone still using ruthless reflex or high confidence at high heat?
honest kernel
left jackal
also is aspect of hestia maxed one of the very strongest weapons?
honest kernel
This is what I see right now
shy plinth
Wrong sheet sir
honest kernel
Fair enough
mossy zinc
Alright, I copied over all the data from the other sheets and populated them int...
Can't just copy Krashercorr's spreadsheet without explicit permission. Copyright.
honest kernel
Everything fine
shy plinth
I left the tabs! The old stuff is all still there
north dove
anyone still using ruthless reflex or high confidence at high heat?
I used Ruthless Reflex on my 52 heat Gilgamesh clear. High confidence might be useable on Guan Yu but the extra hp is probably preferable
shy plinth
Early access looks like a good sheet to preserve
daring hedge
@shy plinth the date column is supposed to reflect the date that the run was completed or recorded, yes? the ones i submitted just show today's date
left jackal
@north dove thank you interesting, right gilgamesh must be the one where ruthless is most usable
shy plinth
Oh right now it's reflecting date of submission
I didn't think about that possibly being a different date
Ok, we can add a date field
mossy zinc
Recorded, yes.
shy plinth
Good call
Added a date field
@daring hedge you should see your 45 rama updated
I moved it to Nov 19th
left jackal
i would say these two mirror talent choices are where the balance is perhaps adjustable for high heat (ruthless reflex and high confidence are weaker, greater reflex almost required or need hermes dashes for most weapons, high confidence isn't worth the diminished health where you won't benefit from the bonus in the more difficult parts of your run)
daring hedge
@shy plinth right. mirrorless and the 56 still as today's date, though
left jackal
ruthless is playable on many weapons with forced overtime at 20 or less though, but still depends and EM4 would kill it as well as some elite mobs
ripe crane
i would say these two mirror talent choices are where the balance is perhaps adj...
High confidence is really not usable because you have no healing. Once you lose it you will basically never get it back
left jackal
@ripe crane right. so i would say balance adjustable there for high heat
shy plinth
<@!145977230034599937> right. mirrorless and the 56 still as today's date, thoug...
Should be set now, just have to manually edit any of the first 15 submissions pre-date field
true fable
2 dashes is better than 1 dash
if you like ruthless that's for you
but i'll take my +1 dash
left jackal
although you don't necessarily have to use -100% healing i guess @ripe crane but it still won't make sense to have less hp and a bonus for being over 80% hp when you won't have it active on the harder fights
i guess its a speedrunning thing only then
true fable
LC4 is basically a requirement above a certain heat level
daring hedge
@shy plinth should i contact you later about editing permission after the sheet is more finalized, or is now fine? not to make any sweeping changes but just to be of manual help should anything come up in the future etc., of course
true fable
imo for speedrunning it's hard not to take LC4 without taking some other pacts that actively make the run slower
shy plinth
It's nyaa's sheet 🙂
daring hedge
ah, right
shy plinth
As soon as they wake up they can add you and/or me if they want
true fable
at least if you're tlaking 32 heat
shy plinth
But yeah for sure we can share manual correction responsibility etc
ripe crane
Can't you just edit the form submissions tab? Or is that changed now
ripe crane
I was able to edit my submissions by just changing the data there
shy plinth
"Me and sheet owner" atm
I updated all the dates from youtube timestamps though
Should be current
drowsy berry
@north dove just watched through your 52-heat gilgamesh...what a crazy run. The EM4 fight was amazing.
Good job on the new sheet @shy plinth!
shy plinth
Thank you! Glad to help 🙂
north dove
Thank you 🙂
proud jay
Amir's friendship with speedrunners ended. Now high heat runners are his best friends.
ripe crane
The correct choice
drowsy berry
My true friendship is with 40-heat Streakers, but there's only one of those!
proud jay
i'm hardstuck with GY-Arthur-Gilgamesh patch dropped too early
ripe crane
Oh yeah I forgot, 24 aspect 40 heat shackle run was my plan when the new patch hit.
drowsy berry
Just do what Retrash did on Gilgamesh: dodge everything, time all your Aphrodite calls perfectly, Maim at the right time, and dash.
It's easy!
proud jay
right
honest kernel
My plan was 58 heat. But I might do 57 instead for the leaderboards
Because PL and Hellmode and the restriction behind it
drowsy berry
@proud jay seriously though, it will be interesting if the 'consistency' philosophy behind your decision-making will work with those three or if you'll end up having to 'Yolo' it in some way
proud jay
seems like im not able to pull off GY healing quite as well as other people
tbh my gilgamesh run got screwed because i rolled for tidal dash at least 3 times and failed
arthur is just hard with FO2 but doable for sure
proud jay
yeah im going to do the opposite order
drowsy berry
Does your streak do 0-pact adjustments or do you change, I forget?
proud jay
i change sometimes, but not too many things
honest kernel
^ usually involves Damage Control, Jury Summons and a few other things
tidal flame
Just do what Retrash did on Gilgamesh: dodge everything, time all your Aphrodite...
Ehem his aphrodite maxed call at the last moment of phase 2 should have killed hades but the laser still going 👀
true fable
turns out sigil doesnt matter when you find 3 braids of atlas
honest kernel
Excuse me what
honest kernel
Holy
Anyways, back to the grind early I guess. Gonna do a few 40 heat runs with DDs
proud jay
LC?
honest kernel
maxed
tidal flame
LC? 4
Patty? Maybe
Hotel? Trivago
honest kernel
The one time I took the DDs instead of Stubborn Defiance, I got all the way to Elysium
And that was with me being a goof and losing one early to autopilot
I want to see if I can keep the DDs for the Heroes, and to a lesser extent, for Hades
Since that's a big bottleneck in my setup
proud jay
DDs means certain someone wouldn't rip a winstreak to tartarus witches
just not sure if it's actually worth it overall
honest kernel
That's what I want to test
proud jay
maybe with CF0
true fable
i got a 9:02 32 heat with beo but my youtube got suspended???
ripe crane
cranked
true fable
will upload to the sheet once i figure out wtf happened
might be because i used the elmo nuke image as a thumbnail for a previous beowulf video
shy plinth
Added a sheet for recently submitted runs (last 7 days only), it'll sort by newest to oldest... and another one as a player index to show highest heat and number of submissions from each player
daring hedge
tidal flame
how do we gid gud?
true fable
"just powershot lmao" does not count
daring hedge
shared suffering application constantly if it's not up and trying to line up power shots on multiple enemies if you can
stay mobile so you can capitalize on triple shotgun or point blank hammer shenanigans
true fable
hmm
honest kernel
Soo
true fable
i think i need to figure out tartarus for 32 heat
honest kernel
Took 1 hit from sneak and 3 from Alecto in Tartarus, and without any Centaur Heart, that was my first DD
Rest I took like 1 lava tick of damage
That's without BP2, so there's that
But I think I have a solid shot
true fable
for DDs on 58 heat though?
true fable
where do the rest of the heat come from
honest kernel
Oh I find Pat anyways LOL
true fable
AP2 as well?
honest kernel
Yeah
And for 58 you include PL
But I'll start at 57 for the leaderboards
And go without PL
So everything but EM4 and RI4
true fable
incredible
tidal flame
no, heat is free
honest kernel
https://gyazo.com/904cedf170156c7f15b7803f393f1f94 Timed out in the Heroes fight
Looks like a call is gonna be needed
true fable
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/679466835283804306/783510696213086218/unk...
how did you only accumulate 8 health in tartarus
ripe crane
Guan Yu xd
proud jay
i went ahead and tested that pact with guan yu
ripe crane
Aren't you having FUN
true fable
how was it
proud jay
found all the good stuff from athena so yeah i guess anything goes
i still can't make use of spin
true fable
merciful end again?
ripe crane
Oh. Yeah I am just wearing shackle the whole time xd
proud jay
if you roll with TD2 might as well start athena imo
honest kernel
https://gyazo.com/4ed932002379de2ea793d87485de9317 Why did that work lmao
honest kernel
I wanted to get rid of Sudden Rush
ripe crane
Is that 3 hammers
honest kernel
Got rid of Pulverizing blow instead
true fable
i can spot an anvil from a mile away
honest kernel
It did let me practise the fight with Charged Shot tho
true fable
how is it with no dash
true fable
i've actually come to value the bull rush as a third dash very highly
but i should try to learn not to rely on it
honest kernel
This run was a test to see how well I could do with DDs
And result ? Success
All it took was for me to slow down a bit
Might be able to turn on JS, BP2 and DC after a run or two more
To note : A call is VERY valuable
If not to time out in the Heroes
true fable
need more dps?
honest kernel
Could technically get away with a 3-sack on Hades if I play the fight well enough
This is CP2 territory here
I'm gonna need ALL the damage I can get
Oh, all Shackles, BTW
With a decent enough Call, I reckon I might have enough damage here
And the DDs over SD ensure a somewhat easier Elysium/Styx if I play it right
true fable
in what way?
honest kernel
If I timeout, mainly
Don't need to entirely rely on Athena if I have 3 Death Defiances to begin with
Which is what I could end up doing with Shackles
You might have seen yourself how I deal with Lernie
if I can apply that to the Furies as well, I get mostly benefits from DDs
Since SDs are insurance against early rooms more than anything
Now I see how Wobbles can do it
With the DDs at 50 heat
ripe crane
Hacking? It's hacking isn't it
honest kernel
1 From patty, 2 From the pool, 1 from Athena
So a lot LOL
But I also stuck with a lot of money the entire run soooo
true fable
true i guess shackle tips the economy in your favor
honest kernel
With Shackles, I can get away with just getting health if I want to
true fable
im just used to beowulf gobbling up boons
honest kernel
Yeah lol
... I can't believe I'm legitimately considering DDs over SDs for high heat lmao
ripe crane
I rather enjoy dying every room
sly remnant
3 crossed out mirage shots in a row
and then blue head lernie
what did i do to you amir
true fable
AP is a fun pact
sly remnant
it didn't help that 3 orange heads spawned on the final round
ripe crane
Yes, that's actually what the F in Approval Process stands for. Fun.