I continue to fail at 32 heat. But I'm only at 120 runs. I should get fresher before I get saltier.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
craggy relic
honest kernel
Can someone sell me on non-Zeus aspect shield? The inability to attack while special is out really messes me up
craggy relic
I just die to Dad in P2 or 3, depending on how I've done the pact. So it's a git-gud problem
Oh!
@honest kernel I am that guy!
I can sell you on Beowulf.
Or on Zag, honestly.
honest kernel
Nice, I'm already a fan of Hera Bow
craggy relic
(as long as you don't need me to sell you on how to clear 32+ heat with it)
honest kernel
Oh I did 32 heat with Hestia Gun
craggy relic
I suspect you're better than me.
honest kernel
But in tempted to start shooting for 40+ in the near future
craggy relic
But I'll still fanboy the Beo shield.
honest kernel
Well, "better" in a certain sense. I'm sloppy and like the safety of range
Ah, that sounded wrong
craggy relic
So there's 3 shield aspects really. The "play safe so you can clear stuff" (apparently Chaos also lives here and is how people clear high heat, but I haven't done it)
craggy relic
The Zeus "let the shield go ruin things with that +special damage" playstyle.
honest kernel
What bothers me about shield is the flow or pacing of non-Zeus
craggy relic
And the "I do not care, I will rumplestilskin your muppets (this is what you get, profanitybot) with triple-Ares/Poseidon Beowulf"
Have you tried the Beowulf aspect with a decent cast?
(I play my runs at 32 and inevitably die at Dad or Elysium)
Also, I recognize I'm not actually helping, but I'm still here to encourage @honest kernel to play Beo shield.
honest kernel
I did it with Ares cast
craggy relic
Do you generally like melee builds?
Zeus is the only "I'm not actively smacking you in the face" shield build.
honest kernel
I actually smack while the special is out. I do like most melee builds, namely fists and Hades Spear
Although work is getting busy and I realize this is the wrong channel for this--I'll happily read what you have to say later if you ping me, though
mossy zinc
@craggy relic I wouldn't do EM4 at 32 Heat. What aspect are you trying to clear with?
wraith imp
I'm struggling with the flurry shot hammer on bow. I really really don't like it. Do you all combine flurry shot with something else (like another hammer or a specific boon+curse)? On chiron, flurry shot feels awful.
true fable
really? i love flurry shot with chiron because i can special faster idk
flurry shot + relentless/concentrated are almost always my hammers on chiron
wraith imp
Yeah, I'm not seeing the charm. Playing with flurry shot on chiron feels like a chore. Maybe this is one of those instances where I prefer the base chiron attack since it's far more familiar to me.
true fable
definitely not for everyone no
cerulean frigate
i want to like world plitter but it feels like it turns the sword attacks into needle attacks with how narrow its hitbox is
i guess it shouldn't matter because you really shouldnt be using the sword's normal attack combo anyway
unless it's arthur
wraith imp
Yeah, I don't like world splitter on sword.
cerulean frigate
From the test branch:
-Dash Nova is now compatible with Arthur
nooooooooooo
part of why arthur is nice is you see less bad hammers
wraith imp
I'm actually intrigued by that change.
cerulean frigate
if you need a dash nova just queue a special and dash
all that hammer does is take away control of how you can use the special
wraith imp
Hmmm...perhaps you're right.
true fable
sturdy is esp valuable with how slow arthur special is
wraith imp
Question: is excalibur's halo damage reduction & sturdy's damage reduction additive or multiplicative?
It's probably multiplicative, right?
trim sigil
Multiplicative, just like everything else
true fable
and weak on top of that
wraith imp
Multiplicative, just like everything else
@trim sigil
lol
Nah.
Last time I tried "multiplicative" on rama damage increase and got 20K theoretical damage and then I learned it's not.
General rule is: damage is additive, damage reduction+dodging is multiplicative.
trim sigil
Yeah I meant the defensive things when said everythinh else
wraith imp
Yeah I meant the defensive things when said everythinh else
@trim sigil
Yeah, I learned that the hard way.
Imagine my disappointment when I learned I couldn't do 25,000 damage using rama.
Sad Cinematic was depressed.
trim sigil
That sounds like a metric ton of boons even with multiplication, wew
wraith imp
Definitely needed some chaos epic boons in there...
ripe crane
It's multiplicative? 30% DR with sturdy × 40% from aura = 1,200% DR 
true fable
percentage math 
trim sigil
Funnily enough, if you just get 2000000 obols, you can get that much dmg on hoarding slash zag blade
wraith imp
lol, TIME TO BREAK THE GAME!
trim sigil
Now where to find 1990000 obols more
Obviously the value decreases significantly if you pick, say, arthur blade with deadly strike, but just out of reach anyway
55k-ish obols assuming you got heart rend too
mossy zinc
Any point in DR or Dodge is worth more eHP than the previous.
ripe crane
You mean less 
mossy zinc
No, more.
Holy Aura effectively multiplies your HP by 1.67. Holy Aura + Sturdy effectively multiplies your HP by 2.38.
trim sigil
It is indeed more, as surprising as it may seem
mossy zinc
That's +67% eHP from just 40% DR from Holy Aura, but if you add 30% DR from Sturdy, you get another +71% eHP.
If you add Weak to that, your eHP is 3.4x your HP. That's another +102% eHP.
trim sigil
The real question is if going for lvl 30+ bronze skin is gods wisdom
Probably not, but it's a funny thought
mossy zinc
Much easier to just get Greater Evasion and Broken Resolve lol.
true fable
do poms scale well with dmg reduction
trim sigil
Why not get all of them at once tho
mossy zinc
And maybe Different League since you already have her in your pool.
trim sigil
Granted, different league is probably more effective pom material
mossy zinc
lol I had a build with something like 3k eHP last week or so.
Inside Holy Aura, anyway.
ripe crane
100 hp + 15% dodge = ~118 ehp
Two instances of 15% dodge
100 + 27.75% dodge = ~138 ehp
Am I doing that right?
true fable
i believe thats correct
mossy zinc
Numbers are right, yeah.
true fable
Is eHP usually calculated 100/(100-DR)
then multiplied per DR factor
im trying to think of a case where that wouldnt be true
or HP/(100-DR) rather
bronze viper
LOL. Okay, so Hangover Chiron is legit, but Sneak Summons are completely hopeless. Better not get 2.
😦 Got EM4 Dad to 25% phase 3 at 47 heat.
Lost 1.5 DDs to sneaks lol
mossy zinc
HP/((1 – DR) * (1 – Dodge))
Sneak summons.
Yikes.
That's not something I'd thought of lol.
bronze viper
I killed the first round summon Sneak with Meg when Dad was at 20ish% health. The Sneak just happened to try to teleport on top of me lol, otherwise it would have lived the entire time.
mossy zinc
TD3 kind of kills Skelly summon as an option at high heats.
I guess.
I don't know how much Skelly would help with Sneaks.
bronze viper
Right, it's basically mandatory to have a burst summon to get through phase 1 part 3
mossy zinc
You also don't want to waste time vs minibosses etc.
I kind of enjoy the way TD works now, but TD3 doesn't seem doable for most aspects at very high heats.
cerulean frigate
skelly just doesn't have enough HP. plus you can damage him yourself and one shot him late game
mossy zinc
Nah, he takes very reduced damage. I used him for Beowulf pre-1.0.
He takes full damage from Shared Suffering, though, no?
bronze viper
It's just unfortunate for weapons that hit extremely frequently, like if you apply Hangover
He takes full damage from Shared Suffering, though, no?
@mossy zinc .... I did not know that. That's terrible
mossy zinc
I don't know. I'm asking lol.
I'm sure I've heard that before, but that was quite awhile ago.
@edgy fog Charged Flight was +400% base damage before 1.0. Now it's +200%. That's a pretty big nerf for Beowulf.
edgy fog
Ah I see. Thx, also I’ll try Arthur on sword
mossy zinc
Yeah, Excalibur is really good.
formal gust
arthur is amazing
ember bronze
For arthur I assume--tone down TD, try to live with adding other stuff (AP? HS?)
daring hedge
TD3 is still.. doable at high heat with arthur, but it's pretty difficult especially at 45+
ripe crane
It almost makes me mad how easy bow is. Have been trying for two days to get 42 on fist/spear/rail with no success, but got it first attempt with bow
ember bronze
People's favorite setup, if you can get it, is Heart Rend?
(for Rama)
((...and for Arthur))
maiden geode
Yeah i thought excalibur would be a throwaway
Turns out it chews through everything
edgy fog
what kind of boons do you try to get with excalibur?
ripe crane
I feel like legerdamayn said last time I asked about rama to go for Aphro attack and some sort of status on special. Not sure if that was for privileged status or not, but I feel like it would work. I used aphro/demeter for the run I just completed
daring hedge
i feel like deadly strike edges out heartbreak by a little bit if you go with either twin shot or triple shot, which you ideally should
but heartbreak strike is still right up there
bronze viper
... Did they actually buff bow. Lesssgo!
ripe crane
Pro strat: don't zone out just because you feel like you're on an easy run
ripe crane
I can't believe I'm still doing rail runs because I fell asleep during a guaranteed win aaaaAAAHH
honest kernel
but throwing a good run to tomfoolery run is my main strat
edgy arrow
if i don’t switch to a meme run as soon as i have any decent rng, how will i have an excuse when i lose?
ember bronze
Is Lightning Rod incompatible with Greater Recall?
daring hedge
they're perhaps anti-synergistic by nature, but not incompatible
edgy fog
is there a generally accepted best aspect for sword, spear or shield? (esp. for 32 heat runs)
wanton plover
the general answer is whatever you are comfortable with
personally i like nem sword, ach spear, and chaos shield
edgy fog
ok thx. im not very good with these 3 weapons and relatively unfamiliar with them
beat 32 heat with the other 3 weapons and trying to do for all of them
true fable
i know a lot of people like arthur for sword 32
lightningrod + greater recall is great fun
free 430 bucks
wanton plover
yes arthur prob easier if you dont wanna be hammer reliant like nem is
wraith imp
how much health does charon have? he just wrecked me in 20 heat. dammit. charon >>>> em4 hades iyam
ripe crane
Y'all, I cannot recommend the shotgun on the Zag rail enough. It's so fun and the DPS is high. I was tearing through 42 heat with just aphro attack. Granted this would be a seeded run because you really need to see it as hammer in the first room, give up and switch to Zag rail, but if you want something other than Eris for a change, it's a good time and definitely viable for fairly high heat. Great candidate for AP and even RI as you don't need much other than a high attack boon and survivability.
maiden geode
@ripe crane I can definitely buy that being strong, it's just not nearly as accessible as zeus
wraith imp
rail + spread fire + merciful doom is one of the the most OP combos in the game. hence, it's used for speedruns at 32 heat.
bronze viper
Hmm... I think I actually like Doomstones less than Sneaks on Chiron for EM4.
At least you can run away from Sneaks. The entire stage will turn into a laser with Doomstones lol
wraith imp
i have trouble avoiding his waves. but apparently there's some way to deflect them with zeus shield even without athena. i did it multiple times but i'm not sure how.
mossy zinc
16,500, but he concedes at 11%, so effectively 14,685.
wraith imp
thanks.
i had cp2 to on so...21450
yikes
no wonder i strugged with him in tartarus.
even than's 3500 damage didn't take out the chunk that i expected
wraith imp
yeah, his oar does 70 base damage. i think i had hl0 so...
bronze viper
Does he? How much does his oar smack do
wraith imp
70 it seems
mossy zinc
50 damage at HL0.
wraith imp
50? you sure?
bronze viper
Oh, so he hits as hard as Dad. Ez game
mossy zinc
Yes.
bronze viper
Dad spear does 100 with HL5
bronze viper
Is Asterius' charge just a lot easier to dodge now for some reason or did I git gud? Not talking about using a call to iframe it, but it seems a lot easier to steer (heh) him into pillars
mossy zinc
lol considering the nonsense he did to me yesterday, I'd say you were just lucky. 
wraith imp
holy f
the pink projectile attack from great shields go through the shield's blocking? wtf? why?
is this a new change?
it just happened twice.
so third time, i intentionally stood in front of and blocked the entire time. and yep...pink projectile wave thingy went through zeus shield.
the heck?
not even hades thrust goes through shield.
this game has some strange ass inconsistent mechanics
yep. just happened a 4th time.
great shields spin move gets blocked but not the projectile? wut?
bronze viper
That sounds suspicious, I'd F10 that. No directional attacks can go through shield.
wraith imp
i've already left the chamber. should i still f10?
bronze viper
They get a copy of your save, yeah
wraith imp
alright
mossy zinc
It doesn't go through projectiles, but it has so much knockback that your block angle can just get messed up and it hits you.
It really just flings you across the screen if you block it. I dunno why.
Like I don't know why Greatshields with Speeder are close to unreactable.
wraith imp
It doesn't go through projectiles, but it has so much knockback that your block angle can just get messed up and it hits you.
@mossy zinc
i've considered that and i intentionally blocked straight with a wall behind me 4th time it happend...my block angle didn't change.
bronze viper
Yeah it's been an issue for a while. It's the worst when there are multiple vaguely facing each other too.
mossy zinc
I dunno, I feel like maybe you just weren't blocking right. It happens. Street Fighter players do that all the time, too. "I definitely blocked that!"
bronze viper
My spirit was holding Back.
mossy zinc
Then you watch the replay, and they were holding up on wake-up. 
wraith imp
I dunno, I feel like maybe you just weren't blocking right. It happens. Street Fighter players do that all the time, too. "I definitely blocked that!"
@mossy zinc
No.
I held block straight on for a full 25+ seconds because the great shield kept doing spin moves and finally faced me head on (northwest) and finally fired the pink waves.
daring hedge
i'd suggest an f10 next time that happens even if the interaction is somehow intentional. it's useful for them to see reports based on things that don't feel correct to players all the same
mossy zinc
They moved the super mean Giant Rat's spawn point in the minichamber back thanks to my F10.
I almost miss its greeting now.
Almost.
bronze viper
it's useful for them to see reports based on things that don't feel correct to players all the same
@daring hedge New Stygius meta. Start runs with F10
daring hedge
hmm doing my full stygius attack combo feels worse than spamming dash-strikes [slams my big red f10 button]
bronze viper
My first cruel thrust didn't crit, and I don't have the patience to wait until I'm retired to try for another one.
mossy zinc
I mean, it takes until you've retired for them to move back to you or you to dash to them after all that unwanted knockback on the thrust, so that makes sense.
bronze viper
The thrust has knockback? Wtf why?
bronze viper
How does the sword attack get worse every time I look at it.
daring hedge
it's for the uh... wall slam damage
mossy zinc
Yeah, the base weapon teaches you all the mechanics like that.
I think that's the idea.
bronze viper
The special does that pretty well though
mossy zinc
Not comparable to yeet thrust.
bronze viper
The thrust knocking back is like some sword in fighter game logic lol.
daring hedge
cruel thrust with tempest strike and second wave #h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
Smash tactics. Just knock Hades off-screen.
bronze viper
Gotta get that Wave Pounding bonus.
wraith imp
i have a question about benefits package specifically bp2. does bp2 alter jury summons3? i feel like i see fewer but tougher enemies when i play with js3+bp2
ember bronze
Been losing to EM4 a lot
bronze viper
Me too!
ember bronze
I tried it for the first time a few days ago, and got some 32s
mossy zinc
Some perks modify the difficulty rating of enemies.
ember bronze
but realizing now that, unless I have a really high-DPS setup, I lose to him every time
bronze viper
@wraith imp JS3 increases the budget for enemies that can spawn in a stage, and some BP2 Elites cost a lot more than others
wraith imp
@wraith imp JS3 increases the budget for enemies that can spawn in a stage, and some BP2 Elites cost a lot more than others
@bronze viper
That's interesting. i didn't conceive of it as a budget system but that would make sense. Thanks for the explanation.
bronze viper
In patch notes, if you see something about an enemy's challenge rating going up or down, they're referring to its cost
wraith imp
I see. Got it.
ember bronze
So practicing EM4
phase 1, the normal sweep is followed by another sweep with the same timing
and 3 minibosses get spawned that have way too much HP, so you have to just burst down the last third of P1
phase 2, part 1--his two swing combo is followed up by either a single sweep or a throw
the throw is easy to divine dash, with the same timing as if he were doing a sweep, but still not to be messed with since it hits for 50
the charge back to the spear, after the throw, does no damage?
daring hedge
that's just a movement thing of his, yep
ember bronze
he channels a heal, once, soon after the phase 2 break
while channeling the heal, he lights up one pot, and if you kill it, you prevent that heal, otherwise he heals for 1500?
if you kill all the pots, you can just whale on him for the remainder of the channel
Cerberus, once, soon after the phase 2 break. you can divine dash it pretty easily?
phase 2 part 2--how he does either the swing, swing, sweep, or the P1 double sweep again?
phase 3--now the double sweep, the combo sweep, the combo throw, and Darkness are all in play?
and he channels a heal once, soon after P3 start?
loud coral
Bottom-right corner is a safe spot for Cerberus I believe
daring hedge
nah, he can channel heal multiple times in phase 3
ember bronze
so you have to try to keep pots clear?
mossy zinc
he channels a heal, once
Nah, it's just part of his moveset from phase 2 50% on, yeah.
daring hedge
yeah pretty much, or burst him through the heal depending on your build
ember bronze
oof, okay
so either just pound on him while he does it, or do your best to pick off the pots
what about when you can't see?
daring hedge
he can only get two heal procs maximum during his healing time, for 1500 each, so an antos use can nullify it on its own
or meg can help to undo most of it
ember bronze
Do you like to Meg then, or end of P1?
daring hedge
i usually save meg or antos for the heal, yeah. or just an opportune time in phase 3 to get it all over with quicker
but it's also valid to use meg during phase 1 summons
if you can hit several at once
ember bronze
so if your DPS, overall, isn't great--you just get wrecked by P3 because he can repeatedly heal
mossy zinc
I feel like if you summon in phase 1, you just prolong the fight too much because you can't burst through phase 2.
daring hedge
kind of; you can still be vigilant about urns and mostly prevent it
but this is of course harder with melee
like most aspects of the fight
mossy zinc
Yeah, the heals are DPS checks lol.
ember bronze
so phase 1 end, you just do your best to burst him down while dodging butterflies and lasers?
daring hedge
summon has its place in all phases, really. there's not many bad times to use it. phase 1 for summons, phase 2 to skip cerberus, phase 3 just to end the nightmare faster
wraith imp
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Artemis
I want to play with rama + artemis.
What does epic artemis attack provide? That link above says 80-100% on epic but i've never seen that.
wraith imp
Ok. So that column in wiki needs to be updated.
daring hedge
but rama can easily work with common deadly strike anyway
mossy zinc
No, it says 1.8–2.0 multiplier.
daring hedge
rama's base damage especially with power shots is so good that some good hammers and crits enabled are enough
wraith imp
right...so that means 80-100% @mossy zinc
mossy zinc
So it's at minimum +20% * 1.8 and at most +20% * 2.0.
wraith imp
Huh?
ember bronze
So P2 part 1 is actually the easiest part
daring hedge
i'd agree yeah
ember bronze
easy combo of swing, swing, and dodge either a sweep or a throw
then at the break, things go crazy
daring hedge
ah right, forgot about that variance, true
plain jasper
Soooo... EM4 is harder than expected
daring hedge
pretty sure phase 3 EM4 has a higher frequency of skull casts, too
wraith imp
Right. Since damage is additive, wouldn't epic for artemis be shown as +36% to 40%?
plain jasper
Only managed to beat it once
wraith imp
And if expressed as multiplier, it would be 1.36 to 1.40.
ember bronze
So how do deal with Darkness in P3, and being ready for what he does when he reappears?
daring hedge
clearing out urns while he's invis, keeping skulls in check, making sure he's not offscreen as much as you can or else 50/100 damage flying at you
ember bronze
Yeah, I'm just worried about reappearing into a throw or skull throw
mossy zinc
That fight sucks so much with RI3.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
You i-frame any Superelite's attack and you take 50 damage from a throw for that.
Or you don't i-frame and get comboed by both.
wraith imp
the green urns randomly appearing under you in EM4 is incredibly annoying. athena's trap boon is a life saver for those instances.
mossy zinc
Take your pick.
daring hedge
i love dashing through two skull waves only to be hit by the spear coming right down the middle directly after crossing them
mossy zinc
If you're too far from him, when you Deflect/i-frame a skull cast, he'll just nail you with a throw on your recovery, and you can't do anything lol.
Yeah that lol.
I don't actually know a solution for those situations. You either get hit on dash recovery or you don't dash and get comboed.
daring hedge
getting sneak as the summon is extra awful with RI3 too because there's a chance when you're actually safe after dashing, you're, in truth, not safe 
mossy zinc
That's pretty much all of EM4 FO2 RI3, Sneaks or no lol.
mossy zinc
Passion Flare, Flood Flare, and Trippy Flare are all pretty good.
ember bronze
❤️
twilit orbit
I've come to the conclusion that I can't do forced overtime at all because im bad
which really limits me once I start upping the heat
mossy zinc
You can still do 40 Heat without FO.
twilit orbit
most of the rooms are fine but I die way too much on hades when FO is turned on
the theseus fight is also kind of sketch with FO on
mossy zinc
EM or no EM?
twilit orbit
I dont have EM4 on
mossy zinc
EM3?
twilit orbit
I think the theseus fight I'm mostly just taking extra damage because I want to rush because timer
yeah EM3
so if I just played better it should be fine
wraith imp
On a related topic, I don't know how y'all consistently do JS3+BP2 on TD2 or higher.
TD2 is my softcap.
Just did a 36 heat run and it took me 32 minutes.
50 heat seems impossible to me on any TD2 or higher.
twilit orbit
but I find it so much harder to dodge hades with FO on for some reason
mossy zinc
What aspects? I don't take EM3 on Malphon, and it's probably a bad idea for Nemesis, too.
twilit orbit
uh, I was switching between arthur and nemesis
I finally cleared 32 heat after turning FO off lol
I just sucked it up and put the heat somewhere else
mossy zinc
@wraith imp there's just a lot of variance for aspects, too.
Maybe study some speedruns with whatever aspect you're struggling with getting up to speed or watch previous high-heat runs.
wraith imp
this run was on zeus shield.
twilit orbit
I always think that FO isnt so bad because most rooms I can handle fine, but it turns out that most times I turn it on I just die to hades
wraith imp
and i had zeus legendary splitting bolt with double strike and high voltage.
twilit orbit
whereas with FO off if I make it to hades I have a much higher win rate
wraith imp
but strangely, i didn't start clearing enemies quickly until i got poseidon razor shoals
seems like privileged status does a lot of work.
mossy zinc
You just gotta practice the fight a lot if you want to play with FO on.
I'm not as consistent now as I used to be at FO2, either. Didn't really play for a couple months because of school, which starts again next week actually lol.
twilit orbit
maybe I should just turn on FO by itself with no other modifiers and practice the fight if I want to enable it later for higher heat
wraith imp
@twilit orbit
I suggest playing the game in fo1 always. that way fo2 doesn't seem as bad.
going from fo0 to fo2 is tough.
true fable
i like just doing EM4 FO2 to learn animations
mossy zinc
I dunno, I think if you want to play at FO2 you should just practice FO2.
Gotta keep in mind, anyway, that the people who do FO2 consistently at high heat have played since Early Access.
wraith imp
huh?
an entire post got deleted automatically.
Woah.
"s n u f f a l u f f a g u s" is banned?
That's a sesame street character.
The heck?
wraith imp
This is TRULY wild.
mossy zinc
wraith imp
Like...I just made a post about how my friend was having trouble getting the powershot timing of rama down.
loud coral
Man I really need to remember to use companions, barely managed to beat EM4 with Chiron but if I just plopped down a Meg then I would've had a much easier time
wraith imp
So he started saying "1 s n u f f a l u f f a g u s" outloud (or in his head) and he hits the powershot on attack about 90% of the time.
loud coral
inb4
wraith imp
I want an explanation from a moderator or SGG staff member for why the name of a wooly mammoth from sesame street is banned. I'm flabbergasted.
@torn vapor
loud coral
Is that actually a viable strat though? Seems like you'd be too distracted with enemies to be able to say it then pull off a power shot perfectly
wraith imp
It works for him. He cleared 42 heat yesterday.
I tried it out against skelly and on 10 heat and it worked for me.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
loud coral
wraith imp
I think more than anything, it internalized the clock for him.
loud coral
Better try this out rq
torn vapor
Because it contains a word that Dyno doesn't like in it.
wraith imp
it does?
loud coral
Ohhh I think I see it
wraith imp
what word?
oh
i see it now
weird
i had never noticed before
I...uh...well, damn.
That's just something from our childhood...and...wow.
torn vapor
Sorry about that but it is how it is 
loud coral
I guess if it only censored words on their own then it would be easy to bypass the filter by just doing xNonoWordx
mossy zinc
@wraith imp you're just evil, and Proxy put you in your place.
wraith imp
@loud coral
My friend was having having trouble with the timing of the powershot which is different for attack versus dash attack.
For attack powershot, he says "1 Snuffalucfxgus"
For dash-attack powershot, he says "1 Michigan"
And it works for him. Kinda clever albeit goofy but it works for him.
He got the idea from flag football where there's a passrush countdown "1 alabama, 2 alabama, 3 alabama, etc."
loud coral
Wait a second Divine Strike with Rama sounds insane
Oh damn it's pretty much always working
wraith imp
What is?
loud coral
Just using that for Rama powershots, almost always works
loud coral
Also I didn't know Rama's dash-strike powershot had different timing, that explains a ton
wraith imp
It does.
mossy zinc
Divine Strike is kinda whack on Rama. You're missing out on so much damage.
loud coral
but muh deflect
true fable
all bows dash strike power shot is different timing
loud coral
Always dashed after shots because it felt better but never knew why
wraith imp
Always dashed after shots because it felt better but never knew why
@loud coral
Don't feel bad. I completed about 300 runs before I realized they were separate things.
SGG didn't explain the attack/dash-attack thing well. It gets downright goofy depending on weapon and hammer.
loud coral
What should I use for Hera special? Thinking Ares since it's basically a spray of doom
wraith imp
DON'T YOU TEMPT AAAMMMIIIIIRRRRRR TO NERF IT. DON'T DO IT.
mossy zinc
Flood Shot + Deadly Flourish on Hera, I would suggest.
That's a good combo.
Unlocks Mirage Shot.
true fable
worth going for charged volley on that?
loud coral
Might do True Shot + Tempest Flourish actually, just seems better in general
mossy zinc
FYI, Swift Strike from Lord Hermes affects regular Power Shots but not Dash-Strike Power Shots.
mossy zinc
Because.
true fable
im mad
mossy zinc
I dunno lol.
mossy zinc
I just know it from @daring hedge, I think.
loud raptor
Hermes disapproves of dash-strikes
loud coral
Swift Strike on Arthur is already busted, we can't have it being too good
mossy zinc
Might do True Shot + Tempest Flourish actually, just seems better in general
I dunno. Flood Shot is the speedrun meta.
It's AOE. True Shot doesn't have any AOE on impact.
loud coral
Oh right, guess I'll try it out tomorrow then
true fable
true shot might be better single target dmg with like clean kill or smth
loud coral
(Assuming it ever crits)
true fable
but yeah flood shot aoe is niceeeee
anyone a fan of the hyper delivery strat thats getting popular in speedruns
idk how i feel about giving up extra dashes for dmg at high heat
mossy zinc
I guess that sounds alright. Hyper Sprint is pretty good.
loud raptor
I guess if you can fish out second wind that'd be a cherry on top?
mossy zinc
That's three boons from him lol. That's a bit much too ask for.
loud raptor
ah true
wicked sparrow
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/757245687107944509/769498996350910514/Screenshot_60.png?width=1194&height=671
Used save manipulation at one point in Elysium and once more before Hades. I think I was able to refine my movements a lot more, especially against Hades and Asterius.
I'd started off with Concentrated Volley with Chiron Bow, so I decided to stick to this seed since it looked really promising.
barren path
the thunder flourish only proc few timesif ur lucky with chiron, right ?
trim sigil
1-2 times usually, yes
It isn't about being lucky but rather shooting at weird angles so lightning gets off cd several times in one barrage
cerulean frigate
Or just getting a special that isn't bad on chiron
trim sigil
Indeed
odd plinth
What is a good special for Chiron then?
barren path
before nerf is artemis i think
static plover
dio (especially with low tolerance), demeter, artemis
barren path
demeter with chill stack burst ?
barren path
10 chill stack burst is like every 2 specials
and the burst damage is only 60 at common
barren path
i see with relentless maybe good enough
static plover
yep :3
static plover
I play bow as a melee weapon though 
trim sigil
static plover
it's a mellanged weapon
odd plinth
Do you have any pact recommends for Chiron 16h?
I was planning this:
Jury 1, Extreme 3, Benefits 1, Forced 1
Seems pretty forgiving
trim sigil
Isn't that only 12 heat?
odd plinth
Nope, 16
trim sigil
🤔
1 + 6 + 2 + 3
static plover
what TD do you normally use?
trim sigil
Yeah, now it checks out
static plover
ahh that checks out
odd plinth
Customs is easy enough to play around
trim sigil
FO is fairly unforgiving for bows, so unless you are used to speed increase, you could replace it with TD2
odd plinth
TD2 what do you think I am, Hermes!?
trim sigil
Yes
(personally I can't remember a run that didn't fit in TD2 for me in last 50 tries)
trim sigil
Well, could maybe start with TD1 just for good measure
odd plinth
Lol good idea
trim sigil
Also bold of you to assume I have soul
static plover
it's fine, it's only 5 irreducible dps you take for timing out 
trim sigil
Can reduce it by stubborn roots, smhmh
mossy zinc
It's okay, @trim sigil. I'll protect you. 🛡️
trim sigil
Oh yeah, also on chiron you'd probably want calisthenics over jury summons
(or neither and just take lasting consequences)
mossy zinc
I think neither really matters for Chiron with a good build.
Just don't take EM4 or RI or AP.
trim sigil
Well, you get to spend time retargeting each enemy most of the time
Although, it's probably not crucial
Hard to find a crucial pact mistake on 16 heat, as cheeky as that sounds
mossy zinc
Drunken Flourish wants a new target every Volley, anyway.
mossy zinc
I'm changing the meta, though. 🏹
trim sigil
Imagine not changing meta to sea storm zag sword
static plover
Don't you mean Eris rail, i hear that's decent
Probably not as good a lucifer rail though
(I couldn't type that with a straight face)
mossy zinc
I feel like I would rather want a bit more ammo than +75% global damage.
static plover
+12 ammo, totes a sweet spot
trim sigil
Do you actually need a rare one tho?
Could always overcompensate by poms and other damage amplifiers
odd plinth
Damage output with common is a bit low
I made it to heroes
But I'm not actually good at this game so...
mossy zinc
Common is fine.
tidal flame
Delta chamber hestia rail tho
Elaborate, because that sounds extremely meh.
DC doesn't do anything for Hestia?
trim sigil
Look at the convo above
mossy zinc
Yeah, Damage Control doesn't do anything for Hestia. I agree.
@tidal flame striking with acronyms for things that shouldn't have acronyms again.
tidal flame
Waygdai?
bronze viper
I'm changing the meta, though. 🏹
@mossy zinc Lol, I don't know if it's worth yet though. Deadly/Heartbreak Flourish has (mostly) no issues with EM4 but can't do JS3 to save its life. EM4 on Drunken Flourish is so demoralizing. His heal is so goodand that's only if you make it past summons phase
tidal flame
I'm still confused why Delta helps Hestia
trim sigil
Because it's sarcasm and it doesn't
mossy zinc
Yeah, EM4 is a problem.
trim sigil
rest in pizza
(also that really tells a lot about how even most questionable strats can be seen not as a complete waste but hidden potential)
bronze viper
Do you actually need a rare one tho?
@trim sigil I agree with him actually. I think I notice rarity more on Deadly Flourish than most other boons. Maybe not Heartbreak Strike on Zag Bow lol.
mossy zinc
Delta Chamber on Hestia is actually good at clearing Clones and Numbskulls.
odd plinth
The base damage increase is so low the crits are like farts
I wouldn't push for rare on any other special
But I was able to ambrosia it this run
So who knows!
trim sigil
Maybe it's true. I never actually kept track of rarities on the arty boons because one way or another the dmg itself is poopoo. Main benefit is crits that do not scale with rarity
bronze viper
Flourish is a lot thiccer of a damage bonus than Strike
odd plinth
You think I should run Demeter Chiron special then?
trim sigil
That's because all flourishes are
odd plinth
Assuming EM3 only
tidal flame
But everything else is fine.
https://imgur.com/2fc6Ktt
bronze viper
Hangover is a lot more consistent
If you get relentless + Arctic blast the Demeter build is rock solid. That's some ifs though.
odd plinth
Does sound like fun though
bronze viper
@tidal flame I felt that meme in my soul. That's been my life for the last 3 days.
mossy zinc
So the key is to swap in the Temple of Styx.
Which actually wouldn't be difficult with Lady Artemis. She only has 6 t1 boons.
But you wouldn't have Heart Rend at that point.
bronze viper
It's probably what I get for forcing a Rama shaped peg through a Chiron shaped hole. Rama doesn't need to make a sacrifice to spread poison lol.
Drunken Flourish on Chiron through so purty.
trim sigil
Well, technically you can always play a bad zag bow on chiron with bonus drunken
Problem is that zag is now bad rama as well
mossy zinc
That is more or less the idea with Drunken Flourish lol. Except Drunken Flourish does a ton of work.
trim sigil
Indeed
Main problem of drunken is that while it does a lot of work, you can't make it do more
bronze viper
Both if its duos make it to do great damage.
mossy zinc
Pom scaling on Drunken Flourish is great, too.
bronze viper
And if you really wanted to go for the long con you could get Curse of agony > Nausea > sell agony > Heartbreak Strike > low tolerance.
hollow lynx
big brain strats
bronze viper
It's telling that I find that more reasonable of a plan than Passion Dash at high heat.
mossy zinc
TFW you eat two cereal bars and then go for the second, but you just ate it.
Reminds me of the feel when I save 1 summon for Hades and then don't have a summon for Hades.
wanton plover
jebaited
tidal flame
that's my relationship with money
bronze viper
Sometimes I tell myself to save one summon for Hades and end up with 3 summons for Hades.
trim sigil
Best part is trying to use the other 2 in heat of battle
bronze viper
I have out of desperation lol.
mossy zinc
Getting to use summons vs Hades is still so new to me that I forget more often than not lol.
bronze viper
Yeah I get pretty self salty if I blow a greater Athena call instead of a summon to end p1p3
mossy zinc
I'm probably the high-heat player who values her call the lowest lol. I just want always want damage on my Call.
It's not bad, I just barely ever take it, and I have no gripes selling it.
trim sigil
It's just the "less chances to die while actually doing damage" thing that makes it so appealing
Poseidon aid is limited damage potential, and ares is lol
odd plinth
Ayyy! Thanks mates. Beat 16 heat with Arty+Aphro
Or, "Arty Hearty" as I am like to call it
Ares call is like the lazy call. I can't be arsed to dodge, so I'll just face tank and deal a tiny DPS while I'm at it
I'm close to 100% on steam now. Think I just need to max out a couple of keepsakes and maybe do the 9 well items one
wicked sparrow
I decided to use Thanatos as a summon.
odd plinth
I find meg a little lack luster tbh
wicked sparrow
Helpful against bosses and some mini-bosses. Not really usable elsewhere. <- (Meant this for Than)
If I wasn't practicing for LC I would've definitely gone for Bouldy.
I haven't really used Meg's summon yet.
trim sigil
Meg is just instant than with different aoe and 2/3 of dmg
cerulean bolt
Meg is the speedrunners summon of choice
hollow lynx
meg is a lot faster, yeah (the aiming can be kinda wonky though)
trim sigil
Pretty sure only dusa and skelly actually do something against mob rooms
tidal flame
I have seen a bug where Than Companion does 8k damage though.
Would change a lot of things if can be done consistently/not fixed.
wicked sparrow
I use Than during final phases of every boss. They usually stand still for enough time so that it hits successfully.
Though, I haven't seen sany speedruns, I guess they manage to get two of Meg's attack circles hit.
wicked sparrow
Stuck on a pillar? That must be fun.
maiden geode
I decided to bug report
I think my game crashed while I was tabbing out?
so I guess I'm redoing the fight
not that I mind, my build's busted
wicked sparrow
Usually the AI figures out the correct path.
Opening the bug reporter blacks out the screen. You sure it was closed?
maiden geode
oh I se, well hades is still running
I hope my timer isn't running in the meanwhile
wicked sparrow
Nah the game pauses... I think.
tidal flame
yeah, it pauses for me when F10
maiden geode
the game stops apparently, but doesn't pause
mossy zinc
Ded at 40 with Excalibur.
I was doing very well with my remaining 53 HP that were effectively 377 HP.
But the 150 urn didn't care for my Weak or anything of the sort.
Was close to timing out on the last 30% too lol.
ripe crane
Heightened Security, not even once
mossy zinc
I probably shouldn't have when using Ruthless Reflex.
ripe crane
I would only consider using it if starting Athena and then hope to get Sure Footing
odd plinth
What build would you start Athena?
mossy zinc
Heroic Sure Footing lets you walk on magma for like 5 seconds before you take damage lol. I was abusing that in a run the other day vs Lernie.
maiden geode
walking on magma does sound like a heroic thing to do
trim sigil
Well, epic also suffices for 2 or so seconds
ripe crane
I like it on Excalibur, and builds that shoot for for merciful end, if you can be fast enough, can also start with it
Is heroic 95%? That sounds ridiculous
mossy zinc
Yeah.
hollow lynx
can i put another hot take
sure footing should make it so you don't get stunned by traps too
mossy zinc
You think Lady Athena should get buffs in this meta?
hollow lynx
yes
damage reduction is nice and useful, but getting stunned by urns or saws or whatever is the worst part imo
mossy zinc
Get Unshakable Mettle, then.
hollow lynx
that means taking poseidon, nyaanyaa
mossy zinc
Take Poseidon, then.
edgy arrow
new hot take: huge catch now prevents traps from stunning you
man, what a great idea
i should be a game designer
mossy zinc
New hot take: step on 150-damage urns and win 52 Heat anyway because you're so amazing, courageous, unparalleled. 👸🏽
hollow lynx
the huge catch is zagreus
mossy zinc
Oh wait, that's not new. I've already done that. 👸🏽
hollow lynx
New hot take: step on 150-damage urns and win 52 Heat anyway because you're so amazing, courageous, unparalleled. 👸🏽
this is basically what tail did after two runs of starting phase 3 eating a 70 dmg wave
mossy zinc
It's a rite of passage for every new member in the 50+ family.
If you don't step on an urn, you're just not gonna make it.
mossy zinc
The problem with Sure Footing at that heat is you can actually time out for taking it.
maiden geode
so earlier I met a tartarus trial room that took me nearly two minutes to clear on zeus eris rail with plenty of boons
I understand why they're nerfing tartarus trials now
trim sigil
Just take it in styx last chamber
Also yeah trials were a tad funny
I think one offered me... 20 armored thugs? while releasing them 2 max
maiden geode
yeah something like that
mossy zinc
Joke's on you. Last Satyr tunnels only ever give obols that you can't spend on anything because you're missing 3 obols.
trim sigil
just take another tunnel 5head
maiden geode
mine were cloned and big I think
mossy zinc
Thugs are also less common in the test branch.
edgy arrow
makes sense; we have killed a lot of them
mossy zinc
Which would be a good thing if it didn't mean you see more Wringers instead.
edgy arrow
there can't be many left
hollow lynx
less thugs just means less people being mean on the surface before they die
mossy zinc
But they're already dead, @edgy arrow. They're already dead. How do you kill something that's already dead?
edgy arrow
idk, killing them harder?
mossy zinc
Fewer thugs in the Underworld means Tupac might be alive after all.
maiden geode
sooo
rocket shotgun
with heroic level 3 joltd
is absurd room clearing
Two 41 heat clears
Hmm, what to add on next, TD3, RO1, or AP1
Oh wait I would want to turn off JS3 for TD3, that's the same amount of heat
ripe crane
Ya it makes runs faster
This probably seems obvious, but I recently lost a run because I didn't take the Athena tunnel first in Styx. That tunnel had the sack and I had no way to die and take the extra DD she was offering. Sooo make sure you take Athena tunnels first if running SD
mossy zinc
Yeah, been doing that.
wicked sparrow
I have a complaint.
This is a thing that can happen.
Like, I had the sword, and that dash so I managed it somehow.
But otherwise that's...
ripe crane
Yeeeah that's often just a reset
My very first attempt at high heat was one of those. Haven't had one since thankfully
wicked sparrow
I knew this could happen. This is the first time it happened with me. I thought this was changed?
Like, those blue heart condition champions were supposed to be limited to a small number I thought.
hollow lynx
lol i had this happen to me too
mossy zinc
A never-before-seen build. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/769620489408479292/Hades_1096.png?width=830&height=467
I feel accomplished.
trim sigil
Damn, ME. That's quite a rare duo to see nowadays
mossy zinc
And on Malphon.
mossy zinc
I think people usually use errr . . . Lucifer for ME.
trim sigil
for legal purposes, last 4 messages I sent are an elaborated joke
mossy zinc
So you're not glad I figured out how to make it work?
ripe crane
Doom only takes, what, a second to proc naturally? I don't see how you'd even have time to use a deflect ability within a second tbh
mossy zinc
1.1s.
ripe crane
Oh, nvm, you definitely have time then
trim sigil
1.6 with impending doom btw
mossy zinc
Yeah, that's why I got Impending Doom: to give me more time to use my Special to proc ME.
ripe crane
(I was jk please don't think I'm dumb )
ripe crane
I mean you would be right, as long as you don't think I'm dumb for not knowing how ME works
mossy zinc
That reminds me, everyone used to think Deflect gave i-frames until I explained it to people here lol.
ripe crane
Her dash gives some though doesn't it?
trim sigil
It doesn't
ripe crane
Oh no I'm dumb again
ripe crane
Wait
wicked sparrow
They're limited to 5 if you have DC2.
Well, that doesn't matter when literally every enemy in the room has that, especially when they have FO Numbskulls that are also probably more faster due to DC2.
ripe crane
I feel like I've seen the "Deflected!" pop up for melee attacks though
ripe crane
Ah, so it's not technically extra i-frames, but it's similar for attacks that can be deflected
trim sigil
Say, in 3-combo, you can deflect first 2 swings, but spin you cannot
mossy zinc
Any attack that connects with your hurtbox will hit you and not be Deflected.
trim sigil
It is pretty similar otherwise, yea
mossy zinc
Well, any attack that connects with your Deflect box will be Deflected—unless it connects with your hurtbox at the same time.
trim sigil
Which is why divine dash is so popular
mossy zinc
Standing right in front of a Wretched Thug just under his club will get you hit—Deflect or no Deflect.
Unless you're empty-dashing and have i-frames from your Dash at that moment, of course.
mossy zinc
Yeah, but that's any empty dash that has i-frames.
ripe crane
Oh man. That means that I'm just dodging Hades spins through skill and not the power of extra iframes >:D
mossy zinc
Your Deflect box is usually wider than your hurtbox, so it Deflects a lot of attacks before they can reach you.
And of course, it handles any projectiles thrown your way.
Nah, you just getting carried by extra dashes.
Watch this, though.
That was my practice save for Malphon in Early Access.
mossy zinc
Okay somebody with more than a single brain cell tell me how ideal this H32 setup is
JS3 / EM4 / CP1 / BP2 / MM / FO2 / DC2 / TD2
@solar blade I wouldn't take EM4 or FO2 at 32.
Well, I might take FO2, but it's easier not to.
solar blade
so EM3 and what should I fill in for that 4 heat
mossy zinc
Also, you're better off asking questions for 32+ in this channel here because this where all the 40+ players pay attention.
rocky lark
Oh take UC as well
mossy zinc
What aspect are you trying to use?
solar blade
I've been playing mostly on Arthur for the past day or so but my strongest ones are that, Hades, ZagFists and I suppose Zues Shield
rocky lark
You could also drop JS and take TD3, Drop CP regardless imo
Maybe not TD3 for arthur actually
solar blade
I'll tinker around with options after this run I'm in
mossy zinc
I'd take something like this for Hades Aspect and start with the Pointed Arrowhead for Deadly Strike.
With Stubborn Defiance.
But if you'd rather have Death Defiance, move the points from LC4 to HL5 instead.
Or you could do HL2 FO1.
@rocky lark Excalibur is fine with TD3.
plush pecan
what is the easiest heat upgrades in your guyses opinion?
im playing on hell mode and trying to get a lot of easier bounties with the shield
damage control is super easy but idk what to go for after that
mossy zinc
I dunno. Anything but AP, RI, FO, EM4 probably.
north dove
Convenience Fee is free
plush pecan
true
ripe crane
It's actually pretty expensive
north dove
badum-tsh
plush pecan
i neverreally depend on the shop while playing anyways so that should be fine
thx for the help
mossy zinc
No pact is free, really.
mossy zinc
Nah, it makes every enemy invincible for 2 hits lol.
You don't really feel the pacts until you combine them. Then it gets a lot worse.
plush pecan
yeah i managed to get 16 ish heat on spear until it got overwhelming
i ended up being really bored of the combat with spear so im trying to find a new weapon i enjoy
mossy zinc
I think you're generally better off asking in #h1-builds-and-combat for low heats, anyway, because you're asking some of the most-skilled players when asking here, and what's easy for us isn't necessarily the same as what's easy for most players.
E.g., TD3 is free 6 Heat for me for anything up to like 32 Heat, but that's not the case for most players.
solar blade
Do you generally prefer door rerolls or boon rerolls for high heat?
mossy zinc
Persuasion.
solar blade
Figured but wasn't 100% sure
mossy zinc
I don't think there's any recorded 40+ clear that used Authority, in fact.
Maybe one or two.
solar blade
Interesting lmao
trim sigil
Real meta: using authority to avoid pom rooms and get enough boons for UC to not screw you in tartarus
solar blade
🧠
mossy zinc
That's what Dark Foresight is for.
solar blade
and for Keepsakes it typically goes Athena->Dio/Dem->Acorn->Acorn?
that would be my guess?
mossy zinc
Depends on Aspect.
mossy zinc
That's why nobody's running RI anymore lol.
trim sigil
Guess my mission is to figure whether 1 in 14 rerolling of the gold laurel room is better than 1 in 6 reroll of the boon
when ap2 ri1 are on, ofc
mossy zinc
And nobody takes the Frostbitten Horn at high heat. That's how you preemptively end your run lol.
Or maybe it can be considered +5 Heat for the leaderboard if you take her keepsake.
Persuasion also lets you reroll Wells and Pools and Poms.
trim sigil
actually now that it's brought up, i shall continue trying a meme 40 clear with authority
was a coincidence, but now there is a little boost to morality doing so
ripe crane
Getting the specific boon you want from the keepsake you chose is also a huge plus for persuasion
mossy zinc
Also more chances at Duo Boons.
solar blade
oh yeah I'm assuming you guys know this, but I'm assuming that ''''intentionally'''' dying in an Athena Room with Stubborn Defiance and getting an extra revive is a strat that's been used?
mossy zinc
Yes, that's known and (ab)used.
trim sigil
Posted the thing in #h1-victory-boasting
one more 40 clear with authority 
gotta be grateful for the epic swift strike tho, it literally carried the concept
mossy zinc
Got a video for the leaderboard?
trim sigil
Byeah, gotta take an hour or so to upload
(the biggest bummer tbh is that the only run without obol boost from chaos ended up being successful)
trim sigil
Ah, right
Urn giveth and urn taketh
trim sigil
Sounds nice tbh, as much as aphrodite's toys were powerful at times, passion dash was just a "why" moment
hopefully rift and drunken will get their redemption as well soon
ripe crane
I also had to break down and do 40 sword with Arthur earlier. I don't really like it, but I don't like non-Arthur without flurry slash either. Just wanted to get it done. Just gimme flurry slash as the default animation and I'll play sword all day.
bronze viper
I can't do Arthur 40. I just gave up. I'm so bad at sword.
mossy zinc
I somehow managed to fail ME on Nemesis the other day somewhere 40+ lol.
I say "somehow", but I'm pretty sure it was to Speeder Greatshields.
ripe crane
I only made it because I had a touch of styx dark and extra athena DD for dad to keep me alive after I ran out of time. Even when you're chunking people it just feels slow. Maybe you're not supposed to to TD3 with it though.
Where's Oversky when you need him?
wraith imp
What is the max number of hermes boons a player can have during a run? Is it 3?
hollow lynx
you can only have 2 at a time, 3 if you buy the styx one as well
trim sigil
^
wraith imp
ok, yeah...that's what i was thinking.
2 through elysium. 3 if hermes is purchased in styx shop.
ripe crane
If you sell one, is there a potential for him to reappear?
wraith imp
yes, i think so. happened to me in blood prince update. not sure sure about 1.0.
hollow lynx
hermes will keep spawning as long as you don’t have 2 of his boons on your person
wraith imp
yeah, it's kind of annoying in specific runs (especially if a player gets multiple dashes early).
mossy zinc
I always take his boons.
He doesn't have any boons you can't sell.
And if you sell any from him, he'll show up again.
And give you boons you can sell.
ember bronze
If you sell a Hermes, that opens a slot for another?
sorry, I know someone just asked that
but similarly, I had no idea
hollow lynx
hermes will keep spawning as long as you don’t have 2 of his boons on your person
trim sigil
Not to be confused with 4 gods slots, since hermes appears separately from those
mossy zinc
So errr . . . he just keeps trying to give his favorite cousin gifts, and he throws them all away, so he's like oh hey, you must have lost the boons I gave you, here's a new one, but then . . .
Sad.
rigid ember
Hermes won't mind... - Zagreus
trim sigil
I don't think hermes lives a slow enough live to realize that
He must be like "oh, my cousin goes through a new run already. damn proud"
mossy zinc
That's even more tragic.
trim sigil
Maybe. Nor his neither zag's bother, though
wraith imp
dio's after party > stubborn defiance
in retrospect, after party is underrated. I wonder what the play data says about how often it's taken especially by high heat players
wraith imp
wait...after party doesn't work on LC4?
wraith imp
Man...this game has some inconsistent mechanics.
Like...how does stubborn roots work on LC but not after party?
Game definitely requires some mental gymnastics...
trim sigil
Not going to argue that one, as I have been stabbing that in blood price
with no success either
cerulean frigate
You trigger the divine shield before the keepsake
ripe crane
Hmmmm that makes acorn sound pretty good
trim sigil
Dodging also preserves the acorn, while at that
Granted, it's more of being consistent with other defensive items/boons not getting used up when invincibility triggers, rather than an innate advantage
tepid mural
Acorn sounds very good regardless lol
cerulean frigate
Acorn is so good I lose all 5 charges to doomstone laser in phase 1 em4 like a dummy
ripe crane
Well, yeah, I usually use acorn. But thought maybe some interaction between athena legendary and spearpoint might make me pick spearpoint this time instead
trim sigil
Acorn is so good it either isn't used up when i have ton of hp regardless or i get killed with it anyway
ripe crane
Though I should really be picking spearpoint all the time anyway, I think it would be more beneficial for me personally
Because I get stuck in traps or without dashes stupidly often
cerulean frigate
The main issue with spearpoint in the Hades fight is that he hits in big chunks, not really a lot of multi hits other than the laser
Like if you step on urn that's 150 damage and spearpoint might block a second hit but you still took the 150
Sweeps hit for 40 base damage which is a lot
gritty sorrel
though spearpoint can be helpful in styx
cerulean frigate
I take spearpoint mostly on fists because of Styx poison
Unless I get long knuckle
waxen relic
I don't think i'd take Em4 if i had Problems in Styx
sonic lily
i’ve heard there’s a way to like copy a save or something, so one could practice a boss? can anyone explain how that works?
trim sigil
That's 2 different areas of difficulty tbh
Like, if arthur needs 3 slow hits on vermins with DC2, doesn't mean it will have same or more troubles on a boss
Styx can be legit harder than dad fight depending on aspect and other pieces of a build
cerulean frigate
5 sack dc2 arthur gang
ripe crane
Finally finished off 40 heat shield, with Zeus aspect of all things after several timeouts during dad fight with zag/chaos. Very fun aspect imo
trim sigil
i’ve heard there’s a way to like copy a save or something, so one could practice a boss? can anyone explain how that works?
you quit thus save on a part you want to practice
then reach to Documents/Saved Games/Hades/... and copy all the files from a profile you play on, put them in separate folder
then whenever you complete a room/fail, just replace current ones with those stashed away
That way you'd always start in the same room of the same run and try again indefinitely
ripe crane
Did you know you can just be on the opposite side of pillars as dad and negate like, all of his attacks
Like he'll just get stuck on them when spinning/swiping, or chuck his spear/skulls into it. Of course you have to be close enough to make him start the attack sequence first.
trim sigil
Yeah, that's a thing. Most of the time you can't hit him back so it's not commonly used :P
sonic lily
@trim sigil thank you!
ripe crane
It's been handy when I have enough time, I can still get hits in. Just not as many. Mainly in Phase 1
cerulean frigate
wait did they change the way cluster bomb and rockets work on rail? i remember it being this super slow one at a time shot thing where they fired out in an arc
ripe crane
I have ruined so many spear runs lately. It's my last thing to get to 40. Last time I spent the entirety of dad fight jumping into urns with achilles special.
Maybe it's Guan Yu time
solar blade
maybe I'm just #bad but I have not enjoyed Guan Yu in the time I've played with it. Achilles is a little bit riskier but the mobility makes it worth it, and the damage buff from Hades is a real seller, imo both outrank Guan Yu
ripe crane
Hades I think people would say is the best spear, so I wanna try to get to 40 with something else. Mainly the only reason
solar blade
ah
yeah the 150% carried me to my first 16+ on like day 3 of the game
highest I have now is 22 with Arthur, working on a 32
my brain isn't used to having companions yet, much less Shady as an on-command heal-item, but
pffft 3 rooms in and I already have a good feeling this might be the H32 clear
athena dash, aph attack and dem special 🧠
formal gust
Hades I think people would say is the best spear, so I wanna try to get to 40 with something else. Mainly the only reason
@ripe crane excuse me what
ripe crane
Hades is the best spear aspect
formal gust
Big disagree form me
solar blade
Achilles is on a pretty level playing field with Hades and it's arguably better if you have brain cells, but I forget that the Q button exists, let alone that I need to hit it twice
formal gust
I haven’t used it much but Achilles and GY seem way more effective
solar blade
GY is muuuuch more situational in my experience, and I don't feel like it's that great overall. its healing effect is nice, but it takes the drawback of Hades where you are forced to be stationary to 'properly' make use of it on top of getting half your healthpool cut for the privilege of using it
true fable
it also give you rocket spear
edgy arrow
idk spear meta that well, but apparently GY was the first aspect to clear 40
solar blade
died to shieldbearers with the overshield BP perk...
edgy arrow
so there’s that
solar blade
kill me
solar blade
I had a damn near perfect run going too
edgy arrow
i had a similar near perfect run with beo the other day; lost because i got overconfident, stacked a +enemies and -movement speed chaos curses and got hit with BP2 elite greatshields
ripe crane
Why would we kill you if you're already dead
bronze viper
Hades has grossly outperformed every other spear for high heat. To be fair, that's a sample size of 1 @daring hedge
daring hedge
guilty as charged
edgy arrow
that’s kinda the problem with really high heat lol
bronze viper
From my own personal experience, I also find Hades to have the highest and most consistent ceiling
bronze viper
But I am a lowly 40 heat Hades player
daring hedge
hey you're not allowed to say that with your 50 rama
bronze viper
Lol, they do kind of play weirdly similar I guess. Hades is on my list to push, once I get over my Chiron EM4 hump
ripe crane
What heat for Chiron are you trying?
bronze viper
49
ripe crane
y'all crazy
bronze viper
Training at 47 EM4 JS3 CP0 TD2 right now, but there is no reason that the build can't do CP2 for 49. I just personally can't kill Hades even slightly consistently
daring hedge
serrated point's un-nerf has made me want to try a 52 EM4 or something soon
edgy arrow
that buff caught me off guard ngl
daring hedge
key word try, not necessarily succeed lol
edgy arrow
always felt kinda fair to me
bronze viper
I will keep trying. If I get lucky and get Soulcatcher, Megagorgon or Skullcrushers, the fight should be very easy
But Doomstone or Sneak is very nearly just autoloss at least for me
(On Hangover Chiron, the only version that doesn't RIP into a bloody mess from JS3 lol)
daring hedge
megagorgon really is chill. those slow moving projectiles are so easy to parse at a glance
especially compared to sneakfest
bronze viper
Doomstone is such a meme. On Hangover Chiron the screen just turns into one gigantic laser
ripe crane
I threw a Zeus shield at a Doomstone today as it was spawning skulls and my god gauge filled instantly.
bronze viper
Doomstone is sooooooooo good on Rama. The numbers you see should be illegal
daring hedge
it's beautiful
bronze viper
I was halfway motivated to try and get closer to Tail's Rama records but:
A. I'm not that good, I'm not kidding myself. Until I get over my EM4 mental brickwall I'm not even going to try lol.
B. Other aspects need love too lol. Next on my list to push are probably Hestia or Hades. After the Chiron project I'll probably start trying to get all of my favorites to 45.
true fable
the best feeling with rama is one shotting the power couple with some artemis boons
cant beat it
what a dopamine rush
radiant plover
does rama hit like wayyyy harder then chiron ive gotten the extra volley daed and the consecutive damage with a heroic artemis special it was gross
daring hedge
yeah, a big reason i went away from hades a bit other than the 1.0 50 was because the serrated point dash distance nerf felt huge to me
even though it was only 5% more
ripe crane
Hestia is big fun but I felt like I was so tight on time even at 40 heat. lmk when you figure out how to be faster
bronze viper
It only takes a few pixels to screw up muscle memory for dashes though
E.g. you can flirt with Asterius' spin range, the very edge of the spin is not a hitbox
solar blade
changing my H32 setup a bit, I think I should get a loooot farther this time now that I'm not tacking on an extra 60% damage from every enemy lmao
bronze viper
Very much the inverse of Skullcrushers lol. Nothing like their pre-1.0 days but still pretty deceptive
daring hedge
for some reason my brain finds -20% to be totally doable, easier to handle even in EM2, then the -25% is just "why can't i move, do i have a chaos curse on right now, what's happening"
ripe crane
Since we are talking about Hades spear... who wants to give me a H40 setup 😄
daring hedge
sure, gimme a sec
not definitive by any means, but
you could run something like this
could also go into RI2 and take points off of JS or HL
also the option of just gambling a little by going AP1 and taking points off as well