which one?
#h1-high-heat-strategies
high kettle
m gonna try to grind heat 16 now, i did 9 max i believe, so i guess ill quickly see what i like or not
ruby cipher
which one?
@high kettle quick spin
ruby cipher
and \ or massive spin
high kettle
ok, well that makes up for a lot of things to consider
guess ill just try and see
i just wanted to be sure i wasnt missing something super obvious and or good
mossy zinc
Spiked Collar sucks on the Frost Fair Blade since it's affected by the HP reduction as well.
Spin builds are pretty weak on Guan Yu.
You wanna focus on the Special with Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish.
High damage, piercing, and great AOE with great range.
The normal CD on Guan Yu's Special is just enough time for two Dash-Strikes, so Special > Dash-Strike > Dash-Strike > repeat is great for clearing fast.
There are two Special hammers for the aspect: Charged Skewer and Breaching Skewer.
Charged Skewer is the #1 pick because it reduces the CD to the point you can just keep spamming Special, and a fully charged Special will do triple base damage.
ruby cipher
Spiked Collar sucks on the Frost Fair Blade since it's affected by the HP reduction as well.
it sucks but it still moves hp from double digits closer to triple
we're not talking one shot scenarios here I don't think
mossy zinc
If you get Serrated Point, you can just spam Dash-Strike for the highest DPS on Guan Yu, but the risk is high due to the shorter dash, so it takes practice to do well with it consistently.
@ruby cipher you're way better off taking the Eternal Rose into Tartarus for Heartbreak Flourish and everything else she offers.
Or Owl Pendant for Divine Strike if you want a spin build.
Spin builds can be very safe, but they're not built for TD.
final torrent
i saw everyone getting 32 heat pretty easily and tried it out myself
got it on my 2nd run!
got splattered by a chariot
skelly statue here i come
Question: cluster bomb is much better than rocket bomb for eris right?
mossy zinc
The mods will come for you for avoiding the swear filter. 
trim sigil
Tastes ig, but generally cluster is safer bet while rocket you can unload at close range into somebody instantly and get the boost
final torrent
Ah swear filter noted
edgy arrow
Question: cluster bomb is much better than rocket bomb for eris right?
@final torrent why not both
edgy arrow
ye rng permitting ofc
trim sigil
if daedalus hammers gave you all the upgrades provided that'd be fairly lol
edgy arrow
lmao
trim sigil
Blade becomes unplayable as half the runs contain cursed blade upgrade
edgy arrow
imagine not being able to grab a hammer on sword without getting cursed slash and dash nova automatically
yup lol
trim sigil
Dash nova ain't too bad as long as you use it as 3rd dashstrike
edgy arrow
i’ve only tried it once
might’ve been the snap nova flashbacks preventing me from liking it idk
trim sigil
Well, it's the experience regardless, indeed
Much better one at that because free sturdy
mossy zinc
Cursed Slash is great.
trim sigil
Definitely has its uses, but not exactly the hammer to always anticipate 
ruby cipher
Which pact conditions do you have activated?
lost otter
Dionis attack and merciful end?
edgy arrow
guan yu isn’t the best choice for a merciful end run
also yeah pretty sure they meant ares attack
shy steppe
dio attack cuz im trying to use guan yu spin for most of my damage
special is ares attack
edgy arrow
i’m not the best guan yu player, but you’ll probably have better luck using your special for damage
crystal iron
then going for Curse of Nausea (hangover effects deal damage faster) would be better than going for Merciful End
shy steppe
should i change dio attack to ares attack? got the optiohn for the heroic version hmmm
edgy arrow
with aphro/arty special it can stack up pretty high
shy steppe
that makes morew sense sonic
lost otter
dio attack cuz im trying to use guan yu spin for most of my damage
@shy steppe take athena attack and add artemis for duo and back stab damage boon. its probably max damage what you can do from spins.
shy steppe
mhmm thanks, ill see what i can make of this run
edgy arrow
what levels do you have your pacts at?
at 23, there’s no reason to have EM3, BP2 or TD3, for example
ruby cipher
EM4 FO2 non stop 🥲
shy steppe
why FO2 that just makes things harder
lost otter
its madness man
ruby cipher
why FO2 that just makes things harder
i thought that was the point
shy steppe
should i take the infernal gates? i can afford 1-2 each floor since my time is 9mins
edgy arrow
why FO2 that just makes things harder
as opposed to all the other heat options, which make things easier
shy steppe
i just picked the heats that would affect me the least atleast imo
edgy arrow
i honestly suggest doing a bunch of infernal gates
ruby cipher
I just picked the ones that seem interesting at the start. Unfortunately, the most interesting also the hardest.
edgy arrow
it’s really useful to get a feel for how hard they are with some heat piled on, so you can guess in future runs whether you can take them
generally, i’ll only do them in elysium if i’m super confident
i’ll mostly do them in tartarus if they have something i want
otherwise, i play it by ear
shy steppe
i avoid gates at elysium since flame wheels are death for me if i dont have good aoe/multi target stuff
lost otter
damn and after that ppl say chiron not need nerf. hades FO2 dont touch me once with out accorn even with nerfed chiron. but i not bow player.
edgy arrow
I just picked the ones that seem interesting at the start. Unfortunately, the most interesting also the hardest.
@ruby cipher sammmmme
now i can’t play without BP2 ‘cause it’s so fun
ruby cipher
Wish they worked on bosses, too. Teleporting asterius? That sounds absolutely hilarious.
oh and with the slowing down circle around him
ruby cipher
Cruel angel's theseus
edgy arrow
double damage fast bosses with HL5 and FO2 lmaoooo
nah legit i want it
give it to me
shy steppe
my run has changed frmm a spin run to a special run now, got 30% special speed and its shredding
mossy zinc
Yeah, don't take FO2 for Guan Yu. TD3 is fine.
random bough
no you can't
random bough
It says mini boss encounter I think
edgy arrow
fun
random bough
Everything sounds fun in the head tbh
edgy arrow
agreed
mossy zinc
@shy steppe I wrote some quick tips for Guan Yu up above. #h1-high-heat-strategies message
high kettle
whe i see how hellish heat 10 can be alreasy
i dont eve want to imagine above
32 is gonna be tough
thanks
mossy zinc
Because it's slow.
shy steppe
spin heal so i was trying to make a spin combo to bank on that for alot of life steal
mossy zinc
DPS is just a lot slower than it can be.
But spin builds can do 40+. You'll want to avoid TD3, though.
shy steppe
what keepsakes you use for guan yu then? @mossy zinc
mossy zinc
TD2 might be doable.
mossy zinc
I use Butterfly lol.
shy steppe
is butterfly that good?
edgy arrow
it is if you’re Nyaanyaa, and never get hit
mossy zinc
It's good if you no-hit practically every chamber.
Eternal Rose > Thunder Signet > Acorn > Acorn is pretty good.
Heartbreak Flourish, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air.
Divine Dash if you can get it.
Could prioritize Divine Dash over Smoldering Air depending on your confidence etc.
But Smoldering Air does both a lot of damage and keeps you very safe.
Especially if you can get Second Wind.
shy steppe
okay i hate some sp3ecific mobs now
shooting puirple orbs
but
i cant use my weapon to get rid of them
i hate this
bronze viper
GY attack/dash-strike should still destroy projectiles at the very least, but yeah even on Charged Skewer GY, Divine Strike is a great utility to have
final torrent
okay i hate some sp3ecific mobs now
@shy steppe the glove hands with double damage and speed in tartarus are literal hell
tropic jungle
oh lawd and the swarms of lightning fast skulls
bronze viper
Yeah that hurts my soul too
Especially if I did some 5head move right before I died
shy steppe
i realize i could've godmod and won
it is what itn is
but using godmode beats the point of the cfhallenge
challenge*
lost otter
Bless me God. i wana kill this hades on EM4 +100% damage +30% HP and +40% speed on total 40 heat.i have good setup.Need a smoke befor start figth with dad jesus
slender tree
Which room rewards are prioritized on high heat?
bronze viper
That depends on Tight Deadline 3 or Approval Process 2 or not. Let's assume not.
Hmm, vaguely:
Boons you need (e.g. Duo prereqs or shots at Duos, Athena for Divine Dash or extra DDs)
Hammer
Boons you need for Customs
Hearts
...
...
Obols
Poms
...
Gemstone
...
Darkness
It also depends on Convenience Fee and Routine Inspection 2
slender tree
Is saving a ton of gold until styx ever viable?
ripe crane
At how high of heat?
slender tree
25+
bronze viper
VIable? Maybe you could get away with it. Actively good, never.
Unless you're farming for Blood/Diamonds specifically
If you're referring to Hoarding Slash, a solid "never"
ripe crane
Why is that a never? Or do you mean hoarding until Styx and then spending is never good?
lost otter
Ok with my new setup hades On EM4Hl5 FO2 do only 23 damage from hit.im lost figth. probably need more dashes that 2. and need come back my ruthless reflex. but it was almost kill.
and need find chaos on damage or clean kill or hearth rend.
bronze viper
Why is that a never? Or do you mean hoarding until Styx and then spending is never good?
@ripe crane Saving gold for Hoarding Slash is always a never. Saving gold to spend in Styx is acceptable, though unless you're saving for Blood/Diamonds in particular you should never do this in detriment of your current build.
lost otter
Yup...in looking my record...3 dashes must have on EM4 FO2...need do new run
summer glacier
Wait so is hoarding slash not good? I thought as prices get high enough it starts to become worth the opportunity cost of not spending the money
frank aspen
Not good
The damage increase kinda bad considering the things you can buy
I still buy boons with +80% prices
honest kernel
you kinda wanna spend
and theres more utlity to gain from other hammers I presume
I dont run sword
bronze viper
I mean to be fair Sword hammers are pretty poor on average. I've definitely taken Hoarding Slash over like Cursed and Cruel Thrust before.
summer glacier
Gotcha - good to know! To be honest I only have tried up to 16 heat for the achievement but it's cool to see people tackle the really hard stuff
lost otter
Now better setup(ty random i have better aura now and more hp from aphro) let try hardest fight in game again....
chrome bramble
man i thought im doing fine in this game, not having problems whatsoever getting all weapons to 20 heat
but these 32 heat runs are slapping me left and right
😐
lost otter
It was EM4 dad with +100% damage +40% speed +30% hp
chrome bramble
😂
sly remnant
His summons also had benefits package
chrome bramble
thats another person not taking the extra dash, i dont know how people live without it
sly remnant
insanely cool accomplishment @lost otter
lost otter
My hands tremoring jesus
frank aspen
bruh
you out here beating him with those modifiers
I cant beat em4 by itself
AP2 is giving me trash builds
SIKE
BEAT IT
32 HEAT DONE
LETS GO
sly remnant
grats
frank aspen
thank
sly remnant
oh TIL
lost otter
Probably now i switch on +400% trap damage and do it again)
sly remnant
might as well slap on double damage control too
daring hedge
no TD at all at 40 is really interesting
lost otter
I was little luck and have aura from anvil
sly remnant
it was a calculated risk
daring hedge
without the calculated risk boon 
lost otter
and i find how to avoid cerberus)))
random bough
whats the trick 👀
lost otter
i wait moment to avoid cerberus with my artemis)
random bough
Greater call?
lost otter
its coctail of factors to do this. and its hard.
daring hedge
oh my trick is much easier and just involves going to the lower right corner of the arena because the circles are less concentrated there, generally
random bough
My trick is to ||not take EM4||
ripe crane
Yeah I always just go to the lower right. By accident mainly I found that you rarely get hit there
lost otter
now i go in claws. to do same heat ...its be harder.
wraith imp
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES
@lost otter
LEGGGOOOOKKKKKEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!
Congrats!
lost otter
Ty)
wraith imp
thats another person not taking the extra dash, i dont know how people live without it
@chrome bramble
git gud or get rekt
heuheuheuheuheuheuheuheu
The ruthless reflex arthur player
@random bough
definitely an interesting choice. also took 3 death defiances into of stubborn defiance (which is usually taken by many at 40 heat)
daring hedge
i mean, it's not like they had or planned on having a single dash the whole run lol
netting greatest reflex was part of the idea
wraith imp
i mean, it's not like they had or planned on having a single dash the whole run lol
@daring hedge
i've actually been forcing myself to play with RI3 recent just to get used to not having any dash beyond standard. might as well get used to it now.
daring hedge
yeah, it's a doozy
wraith imp
btw, 30% greater haste (which is rare iirc) is better than 1 extra dash imo
last night, i got 40% greater haste (which is epic) and i felt that was better than even +2 dashes from hermes
mossy zinc
Your opinion is wrong.
wraith imp
don't care, didn't ask
mossy zinc
I care.
wraith imp
❤️
mossy zinc
🔫
wraith imp
"you think you can hurt me? dusa friendzoned me"
no but really...40% greater haste was incredible. hades couldn't touch me on spins or spear throws on em4. and i didn't even have athena dash or extra dashes...i had standard dio dash
too bad i didn't see eurydice that run. i would've like to have experienced what 50% greater haste would be like...
at that point, FO2 becomes negligible
mossy zinc
Not like Deflect would save you from spins anyway.
lost otter
its save me from spins.... near 20+times or more. its mean even on my last 40 heat run... it was deflectson on total near 300-400 hp only on hades figth. but its huge deal to timing artur attack to predict hades FO2 spins,trowns,skulls.and extra dashes huge deal.
im abadon my runs if dont have 3 dash total. becaus it imposible to save your self in Fo2 hades EM4 only with 2 dashes.
not totaly abadon 🤣 i just know. i die 100%
and run becomes just another deflect traning
lost otter
To buff miam damage to max need : aphro ,artemis,dio, athena.
PS with 2 debuffs. and debuffs must be applyed befor you use miam.
Artemis+athena Duo(20%)and artemis+dio(8%) give 28% crit chance total.
And miam start crits.
Also Heart rend,clean kill,rusthless reflex,Sweet Surrender make miam do even 4k damage from crit.
Miam not a suck.
why ppl do good build for demeter fist special but dont do same for miam.
ideal setup :Athena attack,Aphro special,artemis cast(or build be less effective)
unreal pasture
What weapon were you playing for Haste to outvalue dash?
ranged weapon?
The dash is more iframes so... it's obviously insane @wraith imp
+3 dashes is pretty nutty when it pops up... but sometimes I still just don't take it
Seems to me like the only way you can get big value out of haste is with that other Hermes boon, +100% damage for movement speed
and still seems sus to me
bronze viper
Movement speed typically means I run into lava or Styx traps.
That's not Movement Speed's fault, but it is the reality for me lol
surreal thorn
I dont know where to post this but this is the closest thing. I started playing with the one heat thing that gives armored foes an extra ability. On stage 3, for the one mobs like long spears/shields/bow dudes....they have an ability that when I kill them, they burst into like 5 of the little dudes. It seems like they do AOE damage when I kill them. Whats the mechanic with them Im missing
daring hedge
with poppers, only one soul is the "real" one
you should ignore and avoid the glowing pink ones
daring hedge
the pink fakes blow up on their own after a couple seconds
bronze viper
My eyes can't scroll fast enough for #h1-builds-and-combat right now lol.
lost otter
Very Hot in room)
bronze viper
I sent a DM to Caitlin to give her the heads up, she mentioned that if it didn't die down after some amount of time after release she'd reconsider adding a second copy of the channel
Good thing we're protected by our intimidating bubble of elitism here
wraith imp
What weapon were you playing for Haste to outvalue dash?
@unreal pasture
zeus shield (which is now my main) but 2nd is eris and 3rd is demeter aspect.
and i use zeus shield as a melee weapon...lots of yo-yo-ing with explosive shield and empowered flight.
unreal pasture
huh...
Can't you like... put out the shield and then permanently dash and have a near indefinite source of damage?
What makes haste better value than dashes there...
But if you're comparing off-brand rarities (Like an epic to a common), sure
40% MS could be better than just one dash
(Epic haste, compared to common dash)
lost otter
im test it out. damage from delivery addictive. sucks
bronze viper
It depends on aspect too, some aspects barely benefit at all from movement speed, like Malphon. You're always dashing or attacking
unreal pasture
^
bronze viper
Coronacht as well. Pretty much literally always dashing or attacking there, but I can see the benefit of spacing with movement speed if you're already at range at least
unreal pasture
The MS might have some interplay on your dash distance... but I haven't noticed... and technically you might get pixels out of more MS between dashes... (but seems trivial or minute)
lost otter
i dont know how you guys play. im almost NEVER run. only if dashes on CD
daring hedge
that's probably illusory if you feel that, since you'd move quicker and faster after dashing if you keep holding a direction
unreal pasture
Actually... when I think of it, the Sturdy dash does seem to get you more dash distance... but not sure
daring hedge
doesn't affect the dash itself
wraith imp
@unreal pasture
i don't play technically...so things like i-frame (while important) don't really factor in my thinking unless push comes to shove.
everyone's play style is different.
however...i did use gilgamesh to see how much distance is covered with 2 extra dashes, 3 extra dashes, and on on. (got up to 7 extra dashes with hermes boon plus eurydice.)
i found that 40% appears to let me cover more distance than 2 extra dashes but less than 3 extra dashes. Hence, I wanted to see 50% movement speed. My suspicion is that 50% lets me cover more ground (or put more distance between me and bosses) than 3 extra dashes.
lost otter
mb. but how practice of Speenruners shows. Dash>speed. only speed after dash good
bronze viper
Shouldn't that be 8?
unreal pasture
Ok. sweet... thanks. So you're saying MS does seem to improve dash distance
wraith imp
it does
substantially
hence, all the spins that would've normally connected from hades always missed because i was out of reach
lost otter
mh. i try it now.
unreal pasture
And yeah... on the backend... that could mean more i-frames but 🤷♂️
bronze viper
That's interesting, I wonder what the interaction of Hyper Sprint and dashing is then.
unreal pasture
But I doubt it
bronze viper
Because I don't think I've noticed a significant dash range increase with that boon
And it's 100%
daring hedge
that wouldn't be more i-frames, it's pretty analogous to monster hunter's evade window and evade distance dichotomy
the distance makes things easier to evade through
but the iframes is the same across the duration
lost otter
i test it rigth now. move speed do NOT icrease dash.
daring hedge
that's what i thought yeah
bronze viper
Lol, Zag sword makes it pretty easy to test at home I guess.
wraith imp
yeah, move speed doesn't increase dash distance.
but rare or higher move speed is a good substitute for not having extra dashes imo. (unfortunately, i frames is an important missing component).
bronze viper
Oh, wait, I'm totally misunderstanding the thesis of your argument then lol
lost otter
but ONE little thing when speed lose to dash. When you run you can not attack. And less dashes=>less animation canceling. and this REALY BAD.
bronze viper
I thought you were saying it literally increased the dash distance
lost otter
i test this. its do not
wraith imp
i think that's him injecting something before i completed my post
hang on let me go back...
bronze viper
I think I'd rather have Quick Recovery over common Greater Haste, and I'm still not even convinced Quick Recovery is implemented in the game.
wraith imp
ok.
i misread his post
for "dash distance" i somehow read that as "distance covered"
so i see the confusion
but here's my original post which started this discussion:
"last night, i got 40% greater haste (which is epic) and i felt that was better than even +2 dashes from hermes"
bronze viper
Okay, that clears that up. So yeah, as intuition would suggest, running faster makes you move further. But you don't have iframes.
wraith imp
and then i followed that up with:
" found that 40% appears to let me cover more distance than 2 extra dashes but less than 3 extra dashes. Hence, I wanted to see 50% movement speed. My suspicion is that 50% lets me cover more ground (or put more distance between me and bosses) than 3 extra dashes."
Okay, that clears that up. So yeah, as intuition would suggest, running faster makes you move further. But you don't have iframes.
@bronze viper
yes, exactly.
bronze viper
Still seems relatively worthless on melee aspects, but a consideration on ranged.
wraith imp
i think zeus shield is that hybrid-ranged weapon so it worked well for me...
bronze viper
At melee range you really don't want to be faffing around casual walking away from enemies after you hit them lol
wraith imp
true...but i've gotten pretty good at using explosive shield as a yo-yo to stagger enemies
daring hedge
movement speed actually is pretty nice when you're looking to be a zeus special puppeteer
makes it easier to keep it out on the return trip
wraith imp
yep!
lost otter
i test it now. 3 dashes have same speed as 40% speed sorry)
wraith imp
i test it now. 3 dashes have same speed as 40% speed sorry)
@lost otter
that's alright. thank you for checking.
but it tells me that greater haste isn't a bad boon especially as a sub to extra dashes if AP1 or AP2 screws us
wait
wut
i misread that
bronze viper
You're taking your lumps with AP2 anyway, so that's not really like... a difference in choice.
wraith imp
i said that 40% might be better than 2 dashes
so if 40% is equal to 3 dashes then...?
it's better, right?
lost otter
but probably most playrs take not Reflex how im. and have 2 dashes at start. and you need find Epic speed or common+1 dash.
to have same speed in total
daring hedge
wasn't the topic about distance and not speed though
wraith imp
@lost otter
something got lost in translation above.
i clarified: having greater haste is good for putting distance between you and enemies or closing distances (kind of like dashes). it doesn't actually improve dash speed
so what i typed in the middle was my mistake.
lost otter
but again.when you run you lose DPS. and you just CANT use alote of canceling of animations with out bonus dashes and immidiatly change positions.
bronze viper
wasn't the topic about distance and not speed though
@daring hedge Are they not the same thing in this thought experiment?
daring hedge
not necessarily i don't think
wraith imp
but again.when you run you lose DPS. and you just CANT use alote of canceling of animations with out bonus dashes and immidiatly change positions.
@lost otter
yes, dash offers more benefits (like i-frames on top of damage) but greater haste has a purpose for some aspects if combined with some aspects or another hammer
daring hedge
this continues to get more muddled as it goes on lol
wraith imp
yep
im talking about not i frames.im talking about combo,and animation canceling.
@lost otter
yeah, i'm not technical about that stuff...i just kinda play...
bronze viper
As with everything, you're welcome to your own playstyle but I remain extremely unconvinced there will ever be a scenario I want to take Epic Greater Haste over common Greatest Reflexes
lost otter
i show you. any way this tricks can do only skilled players in runs. i just show on fuul speed.and after start slow and start up my speed.and in end show how do on poseidon sword cast+special+dash to immidiatly get crystal back.
daring hedge
stretching iframes over a longer distance is different than having them over the default, and then running right afterwards to reach a similar point and make up the difference in the same amount of time
wraith imp
As with everything, you're welcome to your own playstyle but I remain extremely unconvinced there will ever be a scenario I want to take Epic Greater Haste over common Greatest Reflexes
@bronze viper
i don't know what to say that...but i've grown to value both so i'm fine with either.
wraith imp
i show you. any way this tricks can do only skilled players in runs. i just show on fuul speed.and after start slow and start up my speed.and in end show how do on poseidon sword cast+special+dash to immidiatly get crystal back.
@lost otter
Yeah, i've seen this stuff before.
i've gotten destroyed by technical players in smash bros going back to high school. (I'm now in my early 30s.)
I've managed without doing clever things like this...
Besides, I'm on keyboard and I find it's more difficult to pull this stuff off on keyboard than on controller.
lost otter
different save. its my little bro save. i create this video to speed runner. and my main save was busy.i do 32 heat and be on styx
Im keyboard player)
wraith imp
props to you mate because i can't pull that stuff off on keyboard.
i'm just not good enough
i fat finger it...
bronze viper
I think the core difference for me is that with this game, your dash flows very smoothly into all of your offensive options. Things cancel into and from dashes pretty much universally. Compare this to, say, Dark Souls, where you have like, infinite dashes, but they're mutually exclusive from your normal actions and they're so much more commital
lost otter
and this video have description about what i do. i dont know all can see it or not?
bronze viper
I would take movement speed over "extra dashes" (stamina) in those games any day of the week
wraith imp
and this video have description about what i do. i dont know all can see it or not?
@lost otter
i cannot
lost otter
I m just show how look full base cancel special+dash.after show sequence. and start grow up speed of pushing buttons. and can deal 2-3 dashes befor hiden special animation ends.in end cast,special,dash (when i hide both animation). 3 cast +2 dashes its looks :cast, cast+dash,casts+special+dash. if have more cast just add more cast+dash befor cast+speciad+dash.
ty Riven character from League of Legends game.
and dont ask about statues) in moment recordin video my main save was rigth befor hades on 32 Heat with EM4. i dont wana lose this position to record video. and just open my little bro save file.
wraith imp
I think the core difference for me is that with this game, your dash flows very smoothly into all of your offensive options. Things cancel into and from dashes pretty much universally. Compare this to, say, Dark Souls, where you have like, infinite dashes, but they're mutually exclusive from your normal actions and they're so much more commital
@bronze viper
you're right that dashes flow into other actions in hades and it's different than in other games.
but i suppose i conceived my opinion in a very narrowly defined reference frame: it was 1-dimensional - distance covered or gained (irrespective of all other considerations).
bronze viper
Yeah, unfortunately, in practice, walking/running has an opportunity cost
wraith imp
I m just show how look full base cancel special+dash.after show sequence. and start grow up speed of pushing buttons. and can deal 2-3 dashes befor hiden special animation ends.in end cast,special,dash (when i hide both animation). 3 cast +2 dashes its looks :cast, cast+dash,casts+special+dash. if have more cast just add more cast+dash befor cast+speciad+dash.
ty Riven character from League of Legends game.and dont ask about statues) in moment recordin video my main save was rigth befor hades on 32 Heat with EM4. i dont wana lose this position to record video. and just open my little bro save file.
@lost otter
yeah, i just tried it...worked like 1/5 times.
doing the thing you do at 0:16 is difficult for me.
bronze viper
For instance, with Bow, every second spent walking is a second where you aren't utilizing your dash to shorten your charge time.
wraith imp
Yeah, unfortunately, in practice, walking/running has an opportunity cost
@bronze viper
For instance, with Bow, every second spent walking is a second where you aren't utilizing your dash to shorten your charge time.
@bronze viper
yes, you're right...i hadn't considered my opinion across all aspects.
but i'm trying to think of instances where greater haste fits better with some aspects than others...zeus shield might be one.
bronze viper
Some aspects I can see movement speed working very well syneergistically with additional dashes. Like Nemesis, who blows all of its dashes in its burst loop, then has to walk around for a bit (or save a dash to retreat) to wait for them to come back up
daring hedge
yeah, movement speed is typically valued more in a setting (like fg pvp) where staying in "neutral" and being patient, moving in unpredictable ways aside from pre-determined roll animations is important. with hades, you just want to kill and progress, and very quickly with TD. like ledger said before about dashes weaving directly in and out of attacks, it's paramount there. enemies don't have hard reads on how far or where zag dashes to
they just don't care
so it's pretty much always effective
wraith imp
yeah, upon review/reflection of this discussion...i've come to the notion that my initial opinion was not well thought out...my focus was too narrow.
lost otter
and another trick about canceling. reload special and shooting can be almost in same time on eris.
bronze viper
It's fine, this was more interesting and intellectually stimulating than the 5 times this weekend I've elected to argue against people lauding Artemis' Aid in builds-and-combat
wraith imp
and another trick about canceling. reload special and shooting can be almost in same time on eris.
@lost otter
yeah, i've seen players do this...but i can't do it consciously. for me, it happens by dumb luck
bronze viper
IT CAN DO 3000 DAMAGE
lost otter
@lost otter
yeah, i've seen players do this...but i can't do it consciously. for me, it happens by dumb luck
@wraith imp just push reload button when you wana use special
wraith imp
@wraith imp just push reload button when you wana use special
@lost otter
WTF. that's all? lol, damn me...
lost otter
just push reaload. and fast after that special
wraith imp
hang on...i gotta try this...
bronze viper
Yeah it's pretty straightforward lol. And particularly important on Hestia
lost otter
and gun be reloading when you be shoot your special
wraith imp
it's a minor miracle i've gotten as far i have...
bronze viper
It's fine, I was 100% certain that Deadly Flourish was broken beyond belief on Chaos Aspect in Blood Price when I hit my first 32 with it. Sometimes knowledge doesn't matter to hit certain milestones lol
wraith imp
hmm...it's not happening. or maybe it is...and i'm expecting too much?
@lost otter do you have a quick clip that you can share?
lost otter
i can do it sure. wait second
It's fine, this was more interesting and intellectually stimulating than the 5 times this weekend I've elected to argue against people lauding Artemis' Aid in builds-and-combat
@bronze viper Btw my epic Artemis Aid 1 lvl do 22k damage)
daring hedge
forgive me if i find that extremely hard to believe lol
lost otter
wana see?
wraith imp
oh, ok....so i was doing it...i was just expecting too much/something different
like..there can't be a 2nd bomb fired until 1st one has landed.
lost otter
mb. but i all time hide reaload animation and special animation in dashes
wraith imp
yep
i've got it
so do you have a clip of doing 22,000 damage on artemis aid1? that would be something...
<we have to make sure AAAAMMMMIIIIRRRRRRR!!! isn't watching though...>
lost otter
forgive me if i find that extremely hard to believe lol
@daring hedge I cant show it to you) becaus its open my tricks) i want have little secters) example is how epic artemis Aid 1 lvl can do 22k damage from greater call to single target. 2.2 damage each arrow. and belive me its...low numbers
daring hedge
saying "i can't show you hehe" doesn't inspire confidence in me that it's a reasonable reality, i'm afraid
bronze viper
Artemis' Aid doesn't have any special properties though...
It's literally just 10 instances of 100 damage with 35% crit
lost otter
ok i show only screen shot.
wraith imp
ok, screen shot...
but i think i might know what you're doing based on our PMs.
it has to have hunter's mark, probably clean kill, probably something from dio duo with hangover effects stacking, maybe even dio legendary for +60%
bronze viper
Assume 22k on Test Branch
bronze viper
I'm pretty sure frequent damage like that is compressed
daring hedge
yeah, that 2.2k isn't from a single arrow
wraith imp
wait...do all 10 artemis call arrows do 2.2k?
daring hedge
no
bronze viper
The same way that Lightning will continue to ramp up and not spit out 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
daring hedge
like, that 2.2k is from multiple arrows hitting in a small time frame
wraith imp
ok, that's what i thought
lost otter
half hades HP
wraith imp
ok, now THAT'S interesting
lost otter
enough to believe?
wraith imp
yeah
because look at the white health bar
that's an indicator
of massive damage in short time
i've only seen something like that happen 2 or 3 times in my 500+ runs.
lost otter
its planed buff to aid
wraith imp
and in those instances, i had absurd builds.
lost otter
im planing this
bronze viper
Planing?
lost otter
yup
wraith imp
did you mean planning?
daring hedge
it's fine to want to keep secrets, but this community is kind of about sharing information and talking about it, so i mean
lost otter
I was planning to make this call
daring hedge
i can't say your plan to keep whatever things secret is something we love to hear
if you're not going to say anything, why bother telling us
lost otter
and that how Hades DO NOT call cerberus. becaus i change phase
wraith imp
judging from the boons on the left...i'm thinking my guess about dio/artemis duo is right
probably something to stack on top of hunter's mark
daring hedge
might be related to the crit bugs in test branch
lost otter
wraith imp
so to get near 100% crit chance on single target
daring hedge
most definitely crit bug exploit
bronze viper
Also, fwiw Hades CP0 has 17k health, so this accounts for minimum 8.5k of the damage. Assume 10x crits with 120 base, which is 3600. It's not too hard to get that 8.5k I guess.
bronze viper
I'm assuming 100%
@daring hedge Unless it's a different crit bug, he doesn't have poms in that boon
lost otter
i just dont get video with this but its not 100% crit. not near
daring hedge
there was something going around about crits doubling up on themselves, but i don't know how accurate that ever was
i didn't test it
damage of the crits themselves, i mean
bronze viper
I can't even see 8.5k happening with 100% crit with Eris, Heart Rend, and Clean Kill. There is clearly something wrong if you are able to reliably replicate that
lost otter
i just can say its comples synergy
daring hedge
but i guess we're supposed to have fun with how he won't tell us what happened exactly
yawn
wraith imp
I can't even see 8.5k happening with 100% crit with Eris, Heart Rend, and Clean Kill. There is clearly something wrong if you are able to reliably replicate that
@bronze viper
HUSH YOU.
Quick...
This conversation never happened.
In b4 AAAAMMMMIIIRRRRR goes Roger Goodell and implements No Fun League rules.
bronze viper
Lol, I would be cautious, if you ever submit a run with that kind of burst with those boons, it will be immediately forfeit.
daring hedge
coordinating a specific combo of gods and boosts to do this doesn't sound super fun to me lol
bronze viper
There are a very discrete number of things that can interact with Call damage, and no "complex synergy" can get it to those numbers in within the spirit of the game
daring hedge
yeah like, this seems very unintentional regardless
wraith imp
aha so dio is invovled!
lost otter
or 4k doom?
i do not simple builds. i do synergy with idea in. im already not one time show how hangover melt with 500-700 damage in bad build
daring hedge
it's not about simplicity or complexity
lost otter
im still cant catch 4 goods from RNG to do 1k+
bronze viper
It's about possibility space, and I'm very close to accusing you of modding or cheating lol.
I can list every single thing that Hangover is capable of being modified in this game, and the ticks will not even come remotely close to 500-700
lost otter
How you will. but if ppl can do even dio damage or miam. or can do good damage 8k artur its....empty words
i can show you 500-700 rigth now)
daring hedge
there is no amount of synergy minmaxing in the game to ever allow for consistent 500-700 hangover damage ticks
untold sigil
so fer aspect of zeus, how should i go about td3?
cause i might be a madman fer usin this shield over chaos cause i do not like how chaos plays
lost otter
That why a prefer do not take timer. and dont want do 50+ heat. becaus its hurts build. and posobility to go in Trial room and open chests to buy boons and poms.
And i wana play in game with good builds.Even if this insanely hard.(EM4 HL5 CP2 FO2)
and about artemis call and dio crits
its life version 4.10.2020
good call be in 0:58.and build be about taking more aid as i can with good Dio damage and call
but not so buffed like in artur
its not a bug.not a cheat. its synergy and planing.
ember bronze
You could still do TD2 7-minute timer without losing much though? If you're finishing the game in 21 min, 3 free Heat.
lost otter
timer annoing me. its make me nerves and i do mistakes.
unbelivable stupid mistakes
and on High Heat i play veeery carefull to i can be with 3 DD on EM4 hades
and good build.becaus i spend time on chest. God vs god. Trial rooms. and play very carefull.
wraith imp
timer annoing me. its make me nerves and i do mistakes.
unbelivable stupid mistakes
@lost otter
Yep same reason why I don't do anything above TD1 now. I do all kind of stupid, needless mistakes that has downstream consequences. So I generally don't go above TD1.
lost otter
probably the guys calmed down about my "cheats"
daring hedge
we didn't directly say you were cheating, chill
lost otter
Yep same reason why I don't do anything above TD1 now. I do all kind of stupid, needless mistakes that has downstream consequences. So I generally don't go above TD1.
@wraith imp that i even on 40 heat dont touch time.....
daring hedge
i said you can't get consistent 500-700 hangover ticks, which is still true. you could occasionally get some mid 500s in your specific build with PP, heart rend, eris, etc.
lost otter
i said you can't get consistent 500-700 hangover ticks, which is still true. you could occasionally get some mid 500s in your specific build with PP, heart rend, eris, etc.
@daring hedge can. if you multy hangover. and have MARK. all ticks becoming critical
almost 100% crit chance
untold sigil
srry fer interruptin what does seeded vs unseeded mean?
daring hedge
unseeded is running with the seed you get immediately after a victory or death
no give up resets
seeding is taking a seed you like, and saving it either by giving up before the run loses, or keeping the save around
lost otter
But even seeded runs changing when you play
untold sigil
wait you can do that??
daring hedge
yep
untold sigil
so is a seed a randomized run or soemthing?
lost otter
but revards be changing like russian roulet. to take SAME revard you need do SAME. with 0.5 sec carefull
daring hedge
a seed determines the starting boon, rooms to an extent, how they branch out. but that in itself is randomized due to how many things cause those paths to alter themselves across the run
routing involves taking a seed and manipulating it for a good chunk of the run to get the chambers you want, etc.
untold sigil
sounds complicated @~@
lost otter
but this extreamly hard to do
ember bronze
Basically, you can give yourself an advantage by restarting a run where you like the starting boon
daring hedge
not many people bother with routing at all
ember bronze
(you can go past this, but that's very obscure)
daring hedge
it's very time consuming and typically isn't seen as a true run in the traditional sense
ember bronze
But if you a want real "honest" accomplishment: speedrun or clear or whatever, you should be going in without knowing anything in advance
untold sigil
what's the difference between that and using a keepsake?
ember bronze
So in videos, people include the end of the previous run, to show that they didn't know anything about the new run
untold sigil
ohhh
daring hedge
your starting boons can still vary depending on seed, even if you take the same god keepsake each time
daring hedge
and approval process can cross out those options further
ember bronze
and I'll be back in town, before the run started
daring hedge
so you can seed to get an open option that you want
and keep attempting that seed's run
ember bronze
and the first boon will have epic Electric Shot again
ember bronze
(Honestly, this should have been fixed. It's okay for roguelikes to have seeded modes, but it shouldn't be this awkward manipulation of save files)
If you play STS or Spelunky or something, you can simply input a seed, but for any achievement/competitive purpose, you have to be playing without one
bronze viper
Based from the video you linked, a single Hangover proc with 3 stacks, on a Satyr at 0:54 did 296, non-crit
Base 16 damage (lvl 7 Drunken Strike Epic)
In a perfect scenario from the video you showed:
16 * 3 stacks = 48/tick (twice a second)
Eris: 75%
Family Favorites: 25%
Ruthless Reflex: 50%
Epic Strong Drink w/ 7 fountains: 35%
High Confidence: 25%
Billowing Strength: 24%
48 * 3.3 = 158. At 0:54 in that video, you have a Hangover tick for 296, non crit. This isn't even remotely close
So... let's assume weird but still possible cases from the video, so Hyper Sprint + Greater Reflex + Rush Delivery, all epic:
Hyper Sprint: 100%
Greater Reflex: 40%
So the end number would be 48 * 4.49 = 227. That's also much less than the number you have shown, and your movement speed isn't being modified, I'm pretty sure. It's ambiguous though.
Now. lastly, let's add all of the other modifiers you could possibly have but you don't have active (not including Crit mods):
Epic Bad Influence: 100% (I think?)
Black Out: 60%
Targetting System: 30%
You don't have PS up, you don't have Festive Fog up, and only 1 enemy is affected. But here's the joke:
48 * 6.39 = 306. If you had literally every single possible non-crit mod that could affect Hangover, you would just barely be able to make the damage threshold you set. This is obviously ignoring Poms, I don't have data for how Poms affect most of these, which is why I used Epic for all of them to help compensate to prove a point.
Natural conclusion? Either there is something we don't know about how Hangover is simplified in the view (maybe Curse of Nausea could compress the numbers?), or the game is not in its correct state.
daring hedge
to be fair, hades does not have any ingame support for seed input, so sharing seeds is just through saves
it's not like hades can do much about that
ember bronze
yeah, but it makes this awkward situation where 1) you have to go through hoops to prove a run is honest, and 2) people who want to play seeds have to do annoying things with save files
daring hedge
oh yeah i'm not disputing that
bronze viper
bronze viper
I gave you like 10000 benefits of the doubt. I literally optimized it
daring hedge
(maybe Curse of Nausea could compress the numbers?)
i can at least confirm that it doesn't, each faster tick is still separate, as a sum of the stacks for that tick as you'd assume
lost otter
get me time to i traslate all of this. find abylities and this run
daring hedge
First im DONT use Family Favorites.
FF is there to help give benefit of the doubt for the sake of a maxed example, considering with the screenshot, your PS was not even active
lost otter
you talk about what video? second or first?
bronze viper
First video
lost otter
lets i find this
ripe crane
Russians drink a lot, so switching language to Russian makes hangover deal more damage.
lost otter
ok. i find this. and see this too.
you know. you rigth. its ticking 200+ damge/ but its must be 6 ticks every 0.35 becaus with ares duo. and we see 296 every second.
its must be 296\3= 96 pet tick every 0.35
96\3 (becaus 3 stucks)=32 pet stuck
with my base 16 and FS 40% and nother buffs in normal. but looks like game summarizes this in one number. to not all screen be in numbers
and 500 crits its when all 3 ticks crits. and game summarizes this in one number
if not all game show us 97(crit) and 2 not critical
and you can see this on last phase of hades life
damn summarizes mean + or summing means+
and if you think MY game not OK you can do this build with your hands and try it.
record this and show us how its looks Trury with out "cheats"
ripe crane
Would you be able to switch to English for screenshot? If not that is okay, just curious
ripe crane
That's ok
lost otter
core on build. Duo with ares and artemis .eris. reflex.PP clean kill mark
legendary from dio very sweet.
first what player wana its Dio attack. pom blossom.artemis and mark
im die to have first boon dio to i can start with blossom
its not 100% rng run. im die or abadont run to i can have first dio and have pom blossom from start.
and to the end probably. not shoore about. realy
its was nearly 150 runs ago total.
Jesus i realy go with famyly favorite.
96\3 (becaus 3 stucks)=32 pet stuck
@lost otter now understanble. 16 base .family 25% and eris 75%
that how 96 exist and 32
But I won't talk about it anymore until someone shows me the same build. with video. after we can talk about "cheats"or
or the game is not in its correct state.
@bronze viper
in life version of course
And i know what result be.becaus i give this build to another ppl. and they try it.And after that forgot about zeus on attack on eris
becaus result was same as mine.
ripe crane
I don't see any ticks close to 296 anywhere else in that run. I see 192 vs Hades. Why would just that one Satyr be taking 296?
lost otter
you know. you rigth. its ticking 200+ damge/ but its must be 6 ticks every 0.35 becaus with ares duo. and we see 296 every second.
@lost otter
i go play guys.Im tired about this disscussion.when you try and recors. say me please.we look at this together
ripe crane
I mean that in a good way for you. Like it seemed like that satyr was bugged or something cause all the other damage looked reasonable
lost otter
you know. you rigth. its ticking 200+ damge/ but its must be 6 ticks every 0.35 becaus with ares duo. and we see 296 every second.
@lost otter
its must be 296\3= 96 pet tick every 0.35
@lost otter
96\3 (becaus 3 stucks)=32 pet stuck
@lost otter
@lost otter now understanble. 16 base .family 25% and eris 75%
@lost otter
sterile sedge
High heat strategy theory craft:
save 63 heat for final point in storyline, and avoid fighting EM4
stark cape
edgy arrow
I mean, if you can get up to Hades on 63 then regardless of whether you win/lose/cheat EM4 maxy that’s still a stupendous achievement
ocean shore
Need to add one more heat, currently at 18. What I have so far (I run it on every weapon, currently trying to build them up to 20):
LC1, CF2, EM2, BP2, MM, DC1, TD2
Thinking about adding 1 more to DC, but i feel like it's going to make excal/guanyu too annoying
ocean shore
I'll try that. I've been ending all my runs with 3DD, hades is 
, so I think I can take a few more hits
daring hedge
oh nice, yeah you can handle HL for sure
ocean shore
I honestly can't remember the last time I died. Most of my wasted time is reseting runs in tartarus when I just cannot get a decent start.
daring hedge
sounds like you could definitely handle 32 if you ever wanted to go there for the skelly statue, or even above
ocean shore
I'm just working my way to 20 since I heard that's where bounties stopped. Then I'll pick a weapon to get to skip to 32 (I think that's how it works)
daring hedge
yeah, there's not really any reason to do heat between 20 and 32
rigid moon
@mystic geyser holy crap im trying your 16 heat settings
how are you supposed to do the 9 min timer
mystic geyser
easy
lost otter
just switch off it. play carefull and dont do guano mistakes
mistakes becaus you have timer
lost otter
I fought with the highest posible difficulty of Hades and minions in the game.
and i dont take timer to be carefull.
and win. if the timer makes you make mistakes, turn it off. Or learn to play with timer
wraith imp
lol, trash can...fitting name for AP heat option
trim sigil
"Take tidal dash and gil"
kidding aside, that earned me a rather chill win a few hours ago, albeit on dull heat
high kettle
i think im in love with chiron and demeter aspects... i knowwhat im grinding with
bronze viper
Stay off the test branch then :3
trim sigil
demeter aint gonna get the stabbo tho, is it?
trim sigil
There doesn't seem to be a major reason for them to get one, so far
Nuking ability is nice and all but comes at a reasonable cost
(granted, I am somewhat of a fan of that aspect too now. probably the most enjoyable of 4 for me rn)
daring hedge
same, i actually don't like the other 3 fist aspects all too much honestly
zag fists are okay but i don't like losing the ability to charge uppers
trim sigil
Zag aspect is zag aspect, talos is peculiar but the feature doesn't seem to cut it, and gil... mmmmmm
daring hedge
even after the test branch talos buff, it still feels super underwhelming to me
trim sigil
There are a lot of aspects where you could say talos is discount x
with funny magnetism, ofc
daring hedge
yeah
discount achilles boost except instead of charges, it's quite possibly the shortest debuff uptime of any aspect debuff
trim sigil
Chiron is shorter but at least isn't so close-ranged either
daring hedge
oh how long is chiron, three seconds?
trim sigil
Something like 3 seconds yes
exactly 3 specials
well, as of 1.0 it's rather almost 4
bronze viper
Lmao the Talos buff felt very much like giving a single Cheez-It to a starving man.
.... Thanks
daring hedge
increasing the debuff uptime would have been a way better buff honestly
ah yes thank you 10% more
trim sigil
To poke fun at that logic, I'd have you reminded that eris got comparatively same increase recently (60 to 75 is same % as 40 to 50)
Granted, there are at least 5 reasons why one is superior to another
daring hedge
but eris' is global damage
and eris was already good
the latter being most important
trim sigil
do you really need to name them all?
daring hedge
it's just funny how eris would easily still be one of the most prevalent speedrun/high heat weapons at its previous 60%, granted it got picked up and noticed the same way it has now
like, it's bizarre that it got slept on so hard
bronze viper
At high heat, what I'm really looking for in an aspect is the capacity to drag dangerous enemies closer to me.
10/10
daring hedge
with a pull that does... wait for it
20 base damage
and you have to dash out of the real upper after it almost all the time
amazing
bronze viper
It really is completely bizarre. It flew so hard under the radar
Maybe if it wasn't bablo who set all 3 Eris records?
That may actually be why lmao
Too good for his own good.
daring hedge
lol, bablo really is always trying new stuff
it seems he took eris for a whirl and made the clear connection of "oh wait this is insane actually"
as for him trying out sigil in hades cup, i dunno
daring hedge
not sure if that's going to mean anything beyond blocking call from showing up lmao
oops i meant hermes cup
obviously hades cup is the upcoming high heat cup
bronze viper
Wtf would a heat completion cup even look like lol
daring hedge
don't die 
mossy zinc
Easier to try new stuff all the time when you're playing all the time.
trim sigil
no upgrades
daring hedge
i think bablo has admitted as much before, that he probably has more play time than all of us lol
bronze viper
It's "easier" with amount of time, but it's not easy to play literally everything to his competency lol
mossy zinc
Yeah. I didn't even have a real chance to play Eris after maxing it before 1.0 lol.
bronze viper
I unlocked it in 1.0 on the Switch
mossy zinc
Yeah, I didn't say that.
daring hedge
i got the switch version and haven't launched it once because i'm waiting for cloud saves lol
just in case getting my PC save would overwrite anything new i'd start on switch
bronze viper
But I would maybe have given it more of a fair shake if it was not bablo who got the record lol. He got 45 on Lucifer, on literally anyone else that would have surprised me immensely but that was pretty easy to write off to just-bablo-things. I think I mentally took the same shortcut on Eris.
daring hedge
well hey now we're the ones doing just-bablo-things, and not bablo
the only non-eris 50s up there right now
bronze viper
To be fair I think he just doesn't like to record all of his runs lol.
daring hedge
yeah i definitely would not be surprised if he did some other 50s that we don't know about
mossy zinc
My motivation is low right now because of the crit bug, anyway.
high kettle
wait there are balances coming?
bronze viper
I'm just switching to 1.0 if I want to run I guess (huh I wonder what'll happen to the test branch themes if I do though)
daring hedge
@high kettle yep, check #test-branch-updates
mossy zinc
Check #test-branch-updates.
trim sigil
imagine actually playing test branch
mossy zinc
Yeah, we want to help the devs make the best game possible.
bronze viper
But we also like... want to play
high kettle
oh
mossy zinc
Just be mindful that the test branch balance isn't final.
high kettle
they basically only nerfed special bow?
bronze viper
They buffed Talos! cough
daring hedge
i've just been doing like 20 heat runs to farm darkness for title ranks currently
mossy zinc
Talos is good.
daring hedge
good is a strong word
high kettle
you think chiron will be still good or nerfed a lot?
bronze viper
I think Chiron will be Usable(tm)
If we were in #h1-builds-and-combat I would say it would be good. As we are in the high heat channel, Usable.
mossy zinc
Chiron is S tier in live, and maybe B+ in the current test branch build? Although test branch tiers are all sorts of wrong right now thanks to 100% crit chance lol.
high kettle
hera will be better then?
bronze viper
Hera is already fine. In Live, it is probably the worst bow for high heat?
But that's not really saying much
bronze viper
RI3 kills everything
daring hedge
but you can do 50 without RI3 just fine
mossy zinc
50 is low heat.
52+ only.
Hera is good until you need to use RI3 was my point, anyway.
daring hedge
it's true, 50 heat is so low it's a speedrun category now
mossy zinc
So the other bows have greater potential.
daring hedge
absolute easy mode
bronze viper
So... it's amazing then
high kettle
so whats the best bow for heating?
bronze viper
Rama
Or actually, nvm, whichever you're most comfortable with, honestly.
They're all very good in 1.0
mossy zinc
I think Chiron in live is easiest to play.
bronze viper
Chiron will hard carry you to 40
daring hedge
32? same
bronze viper
in Live
mossy zinc
Yeah, exactly. Chiron carries.
bronze viper
It falls off dramatically once you start getting JSx, DCx, CPx, some configurations of EM4
Assuming TD3 at least
high kettle
and once the nerf falls its not gonna be able to go to high heat anymore? well im not there yet and 32 will be a first goal but i still wanna know
bronze viper
That's a pretty subjective "hard carry" btw. We three are probably not the best people to ask for "how easy is something when I want to start pushing high heat"
daring hedge
guilty as charged
ember bronze
Chiron is probably a good weapon to go for 32 with, still,if you’re used to it
Easiest is maybe Chaos shield
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Heart Rend. Just spam Dash-Strike > Special > repeat. Done.
Or Deadly Strike + Heartbreak Flourish. Doesn't really matter.
ember bronze
I think I did it with Low Tolerance
daring hedge
hestia 32 without DC is smooth sailing
ember bronze
But Heart Rend probably amazing if you get good hammers
mossy zinc
I think Chiron is way easier than Chaos Aspect.
bronze viper
Hestia anything without DC and JS is smooth sailing lol
mossy zinc
Chiron, Hestia, Eris, Excalibur are all easy 32 Heat.
ember bronze
Chaos is a little weird now, I did it for my first 32 back in beta
I really should try Excalibur more
daring hedge
you're right, time to do like 60 heat with hestia without DC and JS
mossy zinc
@daring hedge easy. Just get Deadly Strike in Tartarus and put some poms on it.
bronze viper
Unblockable is bae
bronze viper
With Hestia's range, it takes sooo much time to get behind greatshields lol
daring hedge
i just bait greatshield lunges whenever i wanna get behind them with any weapon honestly
faster than circling
mossy zinc
I think everyone here does that lol.
bronze viper
Yeah I wasn't referring to circle strafing them lol
You still have to dash in to get them to do it then dashing behind them
At Hestia's range that's both dashes though
mossy zinc
I don't know why you don't want to do circles, though.
That doesn't make any sense to me.
daring hedge
why do circles when you go dash straight through
mossy zinc
Because that's not a barrel roll. 
bronze viper
Asterius does circles seems to work out well enough for him
daring hedge
oh no i've been had
mossy zinc
EM Asterius be like https://youtu.be/cGMWL8cOeAU.
Flying in circles just trying to land 🎵
I see you hurting, I do what I can 🎤 🐂
bronze viper
He seems to the the loopdy loops a lot less often than pre-1.0, though you can still get him to do it if you use an invulernable call very early
mossy zinc
You're imagining that lol.
daring hedge
oh yeah, i'm glad his charging behavior is less... what it was before
mossy zinc
He did the spin like every other attack against me the other day.
bronze viper
Yeah I could be imagining it, my sample size is not that large
Oh, no not the spin, I'm referring to his charge "dance" where he does extremely small circles while you're invincible
daring hedge
he definitely does the weird charge loops less now
mossy zinc
Ah yeah, that's a lot better now.
daring hedge
i feel this in my bones because it used to drive me crazy
mossy zinc
You can also get him to crash into thin air if you just dash away at the right time.
bronze viper
I've seen that happen a couple of times and I'm not sure what happens
mossy zinc
Probably something as simple as you're invincible, but you still have a collision box.
high kettle
sorry im not keeping up with whats said you go to fast
mossy zinc
So he crashes into that.
high kettle
so chiron still ok to go 32 then switch rama
bronze viper
They are exceptionally different from each other
mossy zinc
No, you don't need to switch. @bronze viper is just a Rama main and wants to convert everyone who asks about bow.
high kettle
what do you use nyaan then?
bronze viper
Lmao, in 1.0 Live I was on the Chiron train with everyone else
bronze viper
I just want to protect people's feelings when that train crashes into the ocean
mossy zinc
I use not-bow, mainly.
trim sigil
play lvl 1 hera for free lodges or go home
daring hedge
lv. 1 chiron for turbo garbage special
high kettle
oh ok
trim sigil
Hey it's just like rama special
mossy zinc
I kinda like all of them. I'd just play whichever I felt like using at the moment.
high kettle
i guess when you go high heat you have to focus on a certain weap?
bronze viper
Initially that helps, yes
trim sigil
It does help and hurt at the same time
high kettle
cause rn im playing whatever has the bonus on
bronze viper
I use bow, rail, but I yolo 40s with a lot of aspects
trim sigil
Personally I plan on doing every aspect 32 before moving onto higher heat now, just to see which aspects resonate with my playstyle
So far it seems to be nemesis blade, zag shield, chiron bow, demeter fists
bronze viper
I used to use Zag and Demeter fists about equally while that good good placebo energy was at its strongest
trim sigil
Ah yes, kick fastern't
mossy zinc
I dunno. Doesn't really matter, I don't think. Anyone who does 50+ with one aspect can do 20 easily with any aspect. Might take a couple practice runs if they never used the aspect before, though.
trim sigil
Being seduced by demeter is more frightening imho
daring hedge
hey now i never said that was the case
mossy zinc
Although I've done a couple 40+ first or second try with aspects I'd practically never used before.
trim sigil
neither you discarded that possibility so
trim sigil
too late, you are frozen wasteland now
mossy zinc
Imo the most important thing for high heat success is practicing boss fights, knowing builds, and generally being able to go fast and not wasting time with inefficient movement and room clearing.
Although there are a few outliers who don't do TD at high heat.
daring hedge
or you're sergei and you don't take any TD at all at 40
random bough
when on JS3 CP2 DC1 arthur, i think that was the right call
daring hedge
i don't
random bough
well TD1 yeah fine
daring hedge
TD1 is ridiculously lenient
random bough
he barely made TD1
mossy zinc
He could have used TD and avoided those pacts.
daring hedge
TD2, even, with how it works now
daring hedge
the pact config was kinda whack
random bough
i think he did CP2 EM4 just as some challenge
i mean the entire thing seemed to be a challenge since it's arthur at 40 heat
bronze viper
His playstyle is... off meta for sure, but honestly I find that more or less refreshing for someone to enjoy and have reasonable success coming up with their own stuff.
random bough
I cant even do EM3 with arthur let alone EM4
mossy zinc
I think it's quite impressive.
daring hedge
i just have war flashbacks to how heat worked before there was TD, and runs took 40+ minutes before styx was even a zone
so i'm not a fan of long high heat runs now lol
bronze viper
I can't even picture how you take 40 minutes to go through 2 biomes
Did they like repeat or something?
daring hedge
lol i mean, you didn't have aspect perks, everything was generally tankier (and it's 3 biomes, not 2)
trim sigil
40 minutes for 3 biomes is perfectly reasonable
especially if you are me and combine old chiron with JS3
for 2 biomes, it will either be a mental disorder or a challenge which is equal to having one if done unironically
or leaving the game unpaused for a break but no one does that on high heat
bronze viper
or leaving the game unpaused for a break but no one does that on high heat
@trim sigil This sentence stressed me out
trim sigil
ikr. I keep pausing in TD0 runs, let alone anything of serious attempt
bronze viper
Was the lobby rooms pausing the timer new in Blood Price, or has that always been there.
trim sigil
No idea on that one tbh
mossy zinc
That's been there.
wanton plover
i hate how the dash attack on shield is slippery
like you slide slightly after like the floor is soapy
urban sage
It's slippery from all the blood
mental hearth
I just completed 32 heat, how do you get the statue or whatever you’re meant to get?
fossil reef
lost otter
@mossy zinc @bronze viper Test server artemis crit has been fixed.all fine now
misty hamlet
Climbing the heat ladder with all the weapons, closing in on 40. Any advice for Lucifer Exagryph around the 36 heat mark?
lost otter
this is a very specific weapon.with different mechanic. only what i find its work great with artemis special + mark(put some poms in mark).but i dont play its much. and weapon clean speed feels slow but with hard damage
misty hamlet
Yeah I struggle with keeping ahead of tight deadline early on. Then my Hades fight is awful.
I will try Artemis special if I can that sounds great
wanton plover
when it comes to td3 i always struggle the most floor 1
haughty blade
Do you guys ever run with the +movement/attack speed punishment? I think that's just the worst. Maybe because I am not used to it, but I get hit too often with it.
lost otter
start just with +20%.after time you handle speed punishment. and its be usual speed for you
start add +damage.
haughty blade
I just jumped from 16 heat to 32 because I am almost done and wanted the statue and the extra 40% speed is the real noticeable difference
lost otter
40% its hard.yup.if you handle +20%. just start with +40% to handle new speed again. and dont take Hard labor.
same adwise.
Handle speed first. and learn how to be hitlees
when you be hitlees HL+ not so problem
haughty blade
Maybe i'll just keep the speed and go for no heal instead. With bow should be easy to not get hit then
lost otter
Mb. but i start just with speed. to handle and do it usual for me. after i start add another pack punishments.
sterile sedge
Yeah, some of the attack animations are too very fast with Forced Overtime at 40% ; notably Hades, I feel; so i reckon you're on the right track to admit you're gonna take hits and not allow enemies to hit you for 3/4ths your health bar every swipe @haughty blade , but @lost otter is definitely right, it is just something you kinda get used to (even if zag doesnt seem at all pressed by the fact that enemies are pinballing around the screen);
All things being equal, for some reason 0% dmg / -100% healing feels easier than 100% dmg / 0% healing
I bet math points out that the heals in the game are spread out over time, but damage can always just 2-shot nuke your run
sterile sedge
but this is also irresistible
@lost otter how do you mean? Like, its inevitable you will eventually put on HL5 before another pact of punishment?
lost otter
im start with speed.after start add HL. after start add CP
and result was HL5 FO2CP2 EM4 in end
but you guys dont be so mazahistick. dont do this. just speed and another pack punisment with FO2.
mossy zinc
HL5 is easier than FO2.
trim sigil
I honestly believe it's easier to jump from 0 to 40% than going 0-20-40 because you don't get used to secondary timings
lost otter
HL5 is easier than FO2.
@mossy zinc probably its depends of preference. some one have better reaction than others and Fo2 not so big problem. but they do another mistakes like positioning and HL punish hard.
sly remnant
Yea i'm learning FO2 right now after feeling comfortable with FO1. its kind of a nightmare
lost otter
Yea i'm learning FO2 right now after feeling comfortable with FO1. its kind of a nightmare
@sly remnant When you back to FO1 after FO2 runs. game be SLOWMOTION
mossy zinc
@lost otter I have way above average reactions lol. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12_2L5sZGreuR-1MElSpPiVK6893SIq_oXp8AelLVvco/edit?usp=sharing
mossy zinc
Much easier to no-hit everything with FO0 or FO1 than with FO2. HL5 doesn't matter if you never get hit.
lost otter
my reaction 220-250
tidal flame
Just read a Reddit post about picking Hammer vs God Trial rooms
mossy zinc
Yeah, FO2 is hard.
tidal flame
Some advice are questionable and it cobfirms my belief that you shouldn't ask for advice on Reddit
dire steppe
we need FO5
lost otter
BP2 with FO2 some times nigthmare
mossy zinc
No, Speeder + FO2 is FO4.5.
sly remnant
sorry what is speeder
mossy zinc
When is Seeker + Cloner EM4 Hades?
sterile sedge
Some advice are questionable and it cobfirms my belief that you shouldn't ask for advice on Reddit
@tidal flame go into more detail m80, I rarely dare tread on reddit, but my friend has the same complaint about the gaming communities on there
tidal flame
@sterile sedge so the guy asked about Hammer vs God Trial. All the people there voted overwhelmingly for Trial, w/o knowing aspect, weapons, etc.
Their reasoning is simply Hammer will be offered again
But the problem is some weapons needs hammer
While some gods are sub optimal, even if you are offered 2 of them
Like Zeus and Poseidon on Nemesis is lol tier
The call is nice but Double Edge >> anything either Zeus or Pos can offer
lost otter
probably for spears ,guns and bows ,Hammer best choose
ruby cipher
I can understand the point from the perspective of not thinking that some weapons need hammer
trim sigil
sea storm smhmhmh even tho duos can't spawn in trials
ruby cipher
And boons are boons. That's kind of overlooking the tactical aspects completely, but was that Reddit discussion even high heat related?