well, hm.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
daring hedge
probably athena for the potential to net a DD boon
forest nebula
eeeee
bronze stratus
dammit
lost a DD
oh man
artemis and ares duo room
๐ฆ
or gold
I have no DDs
I think Imma skip the duo room
daring hedge
probably gold just to be safe, especially since your skewer build doesn't really need anything else
mossy zinc
died to theseus cuz I ran out of time
That's why I recommended Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air over Divine Dash.
bronze stratus
yeah
hey
so as far as talents go, how does this look:
https://i.imgur.com/K6hQdhr.png
for the heat setup?
daring hedge
seems fine. i personally go for deep pockets over GT and FF over PS, but both of those are pretty personal taste kind of things
FF is overall more flexible and less conditional to keep active to receive the bonus unlike PS
i also think dark regen is overall just better than cthonic vit once you get through your bounties, but that one also doesn't matter with max LC, so kinda moot
bronze stratus
well yeah I switched to vit because of LC
daring hedge
and it didn't do anything 
bronze stratus
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
thoughts on dark foresight and god's pride?
I'm usually most conflicted on those
should I be going for duos on these high heat runs
daring hedge
dark foresight used to be garbage, but now it's extremely good, and noticeable
at really high heat you almost never want to count on or rely on duos or legendaries to get a build up to speed
that said, legacy is still fine, as is pride
depends on what you want for the run, but pride is potentially better if you can run with a hammer and a solid base boon, generally
so for an example, your previous GY run was perfect for pride, while legacy wouldn't have really done much
bronze stratus
thoughts?
my build is complete at this point
(got the ath dash and the aph special plus a pom and charged skewer)
should I reroll and try for sweet surrender?
(got3 rerolls atm)
daring hedge
aphro aid is pretty solid against EM3 champs sometimes, but yeah i guess you'd ideally want sweet surrender
i'd reroll once and not again even if it doesn't show
bronze stratus
pog
rare sweet surrender
welp, I tried to get zeus call but it was a no go
but I do have quick favour and athena call
๐ค
thoughts on keepsakes?
daring hedge
but you need to fulfill the specific requirements of...
having theseus leave it for some reason
mossy zinc
Now, if it was behind the pillar . . .
bronze stratus
omg you guys
my fastest time was also on my first 16 heat clear xD
athena call + quick favor + clouded judgement
so good also Proud Bearing
daring hedge
ayy congrats
bronze stratus
couldn't have done it without your help ๐
mossy zinc
LC4 win so early on 16 heat is quite something.
bronze stratus
all I needed was to switch out to stubborn defiance
mossy zinc
Yeah, Stubborn Defiance is great.
bronze stratus
and dark foresight was useful too I suppose
mossy zinc
But you still need to do well in boss fights.
mossy zinc
You can add Heightened Security for 17 Heat.
bronze stratus
man, I took ath aid right before the boss room in tartarus
mossy zinc
Unless you have a tendency to dash into urns.
bronze stratus
yes
mossy zinc
Although, if you have that tendency, Heightened Security will be good for learning to avoid them.
bronze stratus
also I think the bounty situation on spear is a little skewed now
mossy zinc
lol
bronze stratus
I just got the 9 heat bounty lmao
so I could sit on this heat and do a few more runs
btw, which summons are good these days?
mossy zinc
I think all of them are good.
Not Bouldy if you use LC4, of course.
And, well, I honestly never figured out the point of summoning Dusa except that she's being cute.
bronze stratus
hmm, but than and Meg's companions dont work on FB right?
mossy zinc
Correct.
bronze stratus
hmm, that's why I took bouldy
mossy zinc
I full-time Antos lately.
bronze stratus
for clearing rooms?
mossy zinc
Bosses and minibosses.
bronze stratus
ah yeah
they do take time
especially in Styx
witch club
also I figured that TD3 was the easiest way to get the heat up without making the run much harder
mossy zinc
If you're fast, yeah.
tribal eagle
Gz dagger!
mossy zinc
TD3 can be free heat for awhile.
tribal eagle
I'm out here still just starting to use TD1 after the nerf lmao
bronze stratus
I did a TD2 run pre-nerf which wasn't that bad
tribal eagle
I couldn't do TD2 pre-nerf lol
alpine dirge
Td was nerfed?
daring hedge
TD2 used to be a static 7m per biome, unaffected by other biomes
TD2 is now 7m per biome, with the time remaining carrying over
to the next biome's timer
tribal eagle
It increases the difficulty by less
So it's nerfed imo
It's like how if a boss has less hp, that's a nerf
alpine dirge
tribal eagle
๐ค
tribal eagle
Yeah I looked at it and went "no way that's real lol"
daring hedge
they didn't know how to get thanatos, had 14 clears and maxed mirror while their victory screen had high 50s for all weapons
there are many red flags
tribal eagle
total clears: 18
alpine dirge
Oh ok
balmy marlin
Hi guys, want to ask, what IS considered high heat over here? Cause I am only at the silver level still...
daring hedge
there's really no set number. whatever is high for you personally! someone in here was posting their 16 heat victory, but we can go as high as 45+ and beyond depending on who's posting
we're not elitist about it at all here
tribal eagle
It's really just however much heat you're at
balmy marlin
ah alright, just so that if I try to help questions over here I am not suddenly having like, bad info haha
alpine dirge
Btw another thing highest heat in blood price was 54.(in the pinned ranks)
So a kinda impressive jump that other guy had in his faked screenshot
daring hedge
on his third ever sword run lol
balmy marlin
but I WILL make a question: people at Steam forums consider the trap damage option as an "easy" one... and am I the only one that thinks it is the opposite and that the 1 value of it is too low?
tribal eagle
I actually kinda agree, trap damage is fine on like 80% of runs but 20% of them it just kills the run
alpine dirge
How much heat does tht one give? 3?
tribal eagle
1 heat
alpine dirge
Oh ok
balmy marlin
my reasoning like, one mistake against final boss and I get spiked really really hard
daring hedge
yeah, i think amir himself made a comment recently about how it's only 1 heat but can really kill you with certain mistakes
so if you don't need the 1 heat, don't take it
tribal eagle
Imo it should probably be 2 heat
alpine dirge
Yeah
daring hedge
you get better at avoiding traps consistently over time, but it's very potentially deadly for a single heat point
yeah
balmy marlin
of course, it is just that the spike damage hurts a TON there xD whoops I am repeating myself
alpine dirge
In Theorie it's great. Every trap is avoidable at all times
Therefore it's a free heat point
tribal eagle
But in practice yeah
alpine dirge
In reality missteps happen
tribal eagle
In theory every attack is avoidable, but hard labour isn't just free heat
balmy marlin
also EM4 yay or nay? I feel like it is a... "extra challenge" of sorts more like an actual legit option to choose? although I guess it is my outright fear of it and lack of practice
balmy marlin
my EM4 only heat amount went well with a zeus+rama bow build, but, well
daring hedge
and gets much harder with other heat options at play, to a ridiculous degree
balmy marlin
I can't imagine it with middle management and the 2 extras for elites really
daring hedge
it is!
daring hedge
a lot of us are trying to get practice in with the fight
since a lot has changed, and it's overall just way harder
bronze stratus
also til
balmy marlin
yeah, that's why I ask, cause for now it is like, "TERROR", but I feel like if I track my memory back in a way normal final boss was like this before
bronze stratus
if you access the mirror, the run seed changes
daring hedge
the best strategy at high heat for EM4 seems to just be "have an incredibly chunky damage build" which bablo has done with eris
bronze stratus
๐ฆ
daring hedge
i think rama is capable of doing EM4 at high heat too, with twin shot and a good attack boon
alpine dirge
Big oof
daring hedge
oh wow, i actually didn't know that dagger
tribal eagle
I need to stop being bad at normal FB tbh
daring hedge
probably because i never change my mirror during that time
balmy marlin
I always preferred rail before but rama bow is certainly me gaining over more and more
tribal eagle
Huh, that's really interesting dagger. Did you change anything?
bronze stratus
see, rerolls are always the same on the seed.
and I went back to check mirror
and then went in
and the offerings were changed
daring hedge
and you didn't change the mirror? just checked it?
bronze stratus
I think so?
maybe flipped a couple options back and forth and left it unchanged
I'll test again
alpine dirge
That could actually be useful to change fast the first boon you get in a run
tribal eagle
It's possible that changing the one that's like probability of gold stuff might affect the seed
bronze stratus
so I changed it
and changed it again
and now my boon offerings on reroll are different
rerolls are always the same for a given seed right?
alpine dirge
Interesting
tribal eagle
What are the highest heats being reached so far in 1.0?
alpine dirge
63
daring hedge
as for real runs, i know bablo has done around 48 heat with EM4 on
i've done some 45s here and there
tribal eagle
Cool!
alpine dirge
All the high heat runners training em4 right now
daring hedge
it's scary 
uncut wigeon
Which boons apply a curse on tier 1 boons?
Aphros, Dio, Demeter....does Ares count?
tribal eagle
Doom is a status I believe, yes
daring hedge
yeah, i think those are all the T1-available status curses
alpine dirge
Is the blood orb also a status?
daring hedge
blood orb?
wanton pier
do you mean bloodstones stuck in enemies?
then I don't think it counts
bloodstones are their own thing
woven cobalt
do they not apply the "boiling blood" curse? I might be wrong
wanton pier
can the player even apply boiling blood? I thought that was a ||hades|| exclusive thing
daring hedge
that's just a mirror perk, not a proper status curse
wanton pier
unless I'm thinking of the wrong effect
daring hedge
hades' boiling blood shares its name with zag's mirror perk, yeah
it's a cool thematic touch
woven cobalt
final boss applies it and it's named exactly after what you buy in the mirror
kinda wish we chucked skulls at people though
(':
wanton pier
hades' moveset is just like zags when you look at it tbh
daring hedge
lol
EM4 driving that home even more when he gets the ability to toss his spear and charge at it
wanton pier
Cerberus is just his call
if there ever was a hades boon set, it'd definitely contain stuff like that I think
maybe "your cast leaves a skull that explodes after landing" as one part
somber rose
what's better between olympian favor and dark foresight? I've been trying the latter and it feels like i'm getting waaaay more boons on the first biome, which ramps up family favorite damage.
uncut wigeon
think it depends on the build you're aiming for.
daring hedge
dark foresight is very, very good now
not to say favor is bad, because it's still good, but
i think dark foresight is worth taking over it, now, after the buff
somber rose
think it depends on the build you're aiming for.
@uncut wigeon which builds would heavily prefer olympian favor?
uncut wigeon
Apologies, got them confused with something else
I wanna say Dark Foresight was one of the ways to deal with Underworld Costums
daring hedge
it definitely helps with that, yeah
and you end up with much more health than you would without it by the end of a run
uncut wigeon
Fated Authority vs Fated Persuasion is interesting too
figured FP isn't as good at higher heats unless I'm fishing for duos or legendaries
burnt ravine
What was the buff/how much?
wanton pier
authority lets you hunt for specific gods, persuation lets you hunt for specific boons
you can also reroll minibosses, I think
burnt ravine
FP is nice when you have a specific build in mind you can force with keepsakes
somber rose
Usually I use my FA rolls to get 200 health in styx
burnt ravine
I liked FA more initially but the more I play the more I like FP
somber rose
so I neglect taking hearts throughout the run and just juice up before hades
daring hedge
same here, binary
as i got more experienced i grew to much prefer FP
FA is still fun for low heat runs, though
tribal eagle
I just maxed FA and haven't started FP, but I'm looking forwards to maxing FP
honest charm
FP is so good
daring hedge
resetting the seed/getting a new seed is typically just going out and dying
bronze stratus
yeah looks like I was wrong about that
ember bronze
Yeah, I started playing after Nighty Night, and fell into FP right away
I remember people thought it was really odd then
daring hedge
it is funny how it can be a bit of a hard sell to people using FA at first, but once you actually use it yourself it's like
ah
ember bronze
I feel a lot of talent choices take a long while to shift out of people's old habits around purple talents
I've settled into using Dark Foresight, God's Pride, FP, FF, and Underworld Customs (if applicable) nearly always. There's a nice little web of interactions going on there
dawn narwhal
I dont know if it is viable on high heat but dashing strike spam of the hidden fist look very great with on hit or stack effect
anyone tried that style?
daring hedge
it's alright, i've found. thought it was underwhelming in terms of damage, even with hunter dash
dawn narwhal
I have been playing with more than 10 heat and each are under 20 mins
daring hedge
looks neat though
dawn narwhal
if you got zeus it will be super good
lightning on dash and attack
athena deflect on attack are also usefully as well because you attack at super high speed
daring hedge
yeah, i think the consensus so far is that it's a bit worse than the other standard fist aspects at high heat, but could still work
especially with deliberate strategies to shore up weaknesses like those you mentioned
somber rose
the attacks are all a bit worse but +2 dashes is always really nice to have
uncut wigeon
So far I really like 4th fist
its fun
I don't know if it'll do 40 but it just got me through 19
dawn narwhal
you usually end up attack faster than standing and as much damage as other fist for same speed
dawn narwhal
broken spear point are great for me
uncut wigeon
think cracking 4th fist will be about pumping up the attack.
I was doing some silly damage with regular swings with it earlier.
somber rose
maim not worth it on high heat
dawn narwhal
somber rose
if nobody can hit you on FO2 then which aspect you take doesn't matter anyway right?
but since you do get hit sometimes, giving hades +50% damage seems counter productive
or you can just use the other moves and be overall safer with the +2 dashes
uncut wigeon
S#!+ happens
but If I'm going to do super silly min maxing
you can either push it
or end up with a really good set of fixes for SGG to hook you up with
๐
daring hedge
gilgamesh has higher single hit damage, sure, but i wouldn't say higher dps than the other fists necessarily
uncut wigeon
most important part so far is that I am having hella fun wtih it.
daring hedge
especially with the heights that explosive upper demeter can reach
daring hedge
lol
uncut wigeon
Streets of Hades doesn't know what's up.
think I hit Meagara for 700
felt super rude
like man, its Tartarus, numbers shouldn't be that big
๐
daring hedge
oh if you haven't already you should get twin shot and a good attack boon on rama in tartarus
phases all furies with one shot
uncut wigeon
lol
somber rose
I really like rama
daring hedge
it's fantastic now
somber rose
like 3 different hammers all double your attack DPS
uncut wigeon
old rama felt clunky
somber rose
when you make it a close ranged shotgun
uncut wigeon
problem was that I didn't really understand how the shared pain mechanic worked with single shots
daring hedge
it would be good even without shared suffering, but it does have shared suffering
uncut wigeon
thought I had to spread the pain
somber rose
and you can stack these hammer upgrades for more damage
uncut wigeon
had to just stack it on a single dude and just blast him
somber rose
so i had double explosive shot +300%
uncut wigeon
Aphros or Artemis?
somber rose
hades died before i had to use a single death defiance
daring hedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/758396098271772732/20200923133415_1.jpg my fastest run so far was with twin shot and point blank rama
somber rose
I had athena on the shot
uncut wigeon
sub 10 mins?
damn
I looked at one sub 20 and I was like "Must've been on some dumb hype for that to happen"
daring hedge
lol
uncut wigeon
Is hunter's dash still +100% on epic?
uncut wigeon
I swear to god
daring hedge
70% for epic now i believe
uncut wigeon
they should've blasted this channel for all the nerfs it caused
somber rose
tbh i'm not comfortable with hades spear. can't find good opportunities to spin on hades
somber rose
when he's on FO2
uncut wigeon
and then dashing into people with the spins
daring hedge
@somber rose i have some high heat runs with hades spear if you're interested
relatively clean fights with hades
spinning all the while
uncut wigeon
Man, I should like Hades Speear (and Achilles too) but for some reason they don't jive too well wtih me.
somber rose
1st stage is always the worse, as it's harder to find the time when other enemies attack too
daring hedge
hades spear takes some practice to get the timing and spacing down with proper spins
it feels really good once you get there, though
and the spin hammers become mostly unnecessary
somber rose
yeah I think #1 mistake is that you wait to see the flash, instead of knowing when the flash comes
which makes it much faster to spin
daring hedge
and max charge spins aren't needed a lot of the time either, especially with dash spin tech
uncut wigeon
should've nerfed hades spear back to the OG small circle
Chaos shield gets the boot, Hades love stick gets it too
๐ญ
somber rose
zagreus spear always feels the easiest to do well with... as long as you get the exploding special hammer
uncut wigeon
I like the crit hammer upgrade strangely enough
think it might be with my need ot randomly see big numbers happen.
daring hedge
hades spear can actually do great work with exploding launcher too
just apply punishing sweep and go to town with +150% damage on all of them
uncut wigeon
Hades spear with serrated spear point was gross
uncut wigeon
Heard or reaf somewhere that family favorite is better than privilege status.
daring hedge
it's more flexible and less conditional, but typically will reach a lower height in terms of damage than priv status
which is fine since it's not a huge difference
i typically run FF
somber rose
if you are seeding demeter or aphro might as well pick priv
if you seed artemis then FF
daring hedge
with decent heat in RI, it also doesn't matter at all anyways
somber rose
what's the best build to make use of hades' keepsake?
uncut wigeon
Gilgamesh
somber rose
just waiting for 400, where in that time you could do more than 400 damage
daring hedge
i've found that the "invisibility" makes a lot of enemies lash out so much that they can hit you anyways lol
somber rose
hestia is super safe anyway, no need for invisibility
what about lucifer rail? I've had trouble making it work because relying on rail specials always feels hard
uncut wigeon
You dont play L-rail foe the special
You play it so you can ghostbuster some shades
daring hedge
@somber rose my point for hestia was not for invisibility itself
but the damage bonus the call provides
somber rose
if it's just to spam attack that's why i have hestia and eris. what does lucifer beam do better?
daring hedge
you definitely don't want to focus on L rail special, as toki said
regardless of blood upgrades, it's underwhelming except in niche conditions
niche conditions being hazard bomb
uncut wigeon
It looks cool, damage ramp can get spicy
Infini-beam gets silly with some booms
Like the supersoaker build
daring hedge
when it came out it looked like it was going to be the best aspect in the game with the least effort on the player's part lol
oh how far it has fallen
how thematic
somber rose
it feels like it "should be" about exploding the special with the attack, but it's clunky in practice
daring hedge
beo has a similar issue where its central dragon rush cast loading gimmick should be its ideal playstyle, but charged flight is stronger, faster, with less commitment
rich gust
is hades invisibility worth it as a call? doesnt seem that good
daring hedge
consensus so far is that it's not amazing
we've been trying to see if it works particularly well with any aspects
but yeah, underwhelming mostly
rich gust
extreme measures hades is very hard, but definitely doable, just super annoying to even reach him on high heat
somber rose
beo has a similar issue where its central dragon rush cast loading gimmick should be its ideal playstyle, but charged flight is stronger, faster, with less commitment
@daring hedge it felt better to use when you get the bullrush projectile hammer, so it's easier to make sure the casts hit
daring hedge
yeah, i wouldn't say i have much of a problem with getting the casts to hit, but rather that the damage output from that playstyle feels less impactful than just slapping on a particular special hammer and avoiding what makes beo unique in the first place
bronze stratus
ugh this seed sucks
honest charm
commit suicide for a new one
daring hedge
if you're getting new seeds for a while i'd recommend just resetting your mirror to remove DD/SD until you get what you want
makes it much faster to die
thorn jay
Is 32 heat considered high heat?
forest nebula
yes
thorn jay
Cool. Just wanna share I tried 32 heat after clearing a 10 heat run for the first time. I did EM4 and TD3 also for the first time on that same run because I didn't want to add heat to the first 4, like hard labor and convenience fee, etc. Turns out that was a bad idea
Reached Hades but he wiped me out immediately
shy axle
feel like this is where all the good players are so ima ask a question - I cannot perform consistently against ||Hades||. I am able to beat him like 95% of the time, but my death defiance use is all wack, regardless of build. Any tips for consistency?
warm pendant
Which part of the fight is taking your DD?
thorn jay
The only attack you gotta watch out for with that boss really is his sweeping circular attack. Dodge that, you're good
shy axle
for me, it really seems to be the basic slash attacks. I deal decently with like urns and lasers and skulls, but I cant for the life of me get a consistent pattern on basic slashes
sometimes i like dodge very well, other times I burn a death defiance first phase
warm pendant
I like to try and stay behind him a bit when he starts walking toward me. Like immediately dash behind.
thorn jay
I must say his first phase is harder than the second one
warm pendant
Definitely.
bronze stratus
@daring hedge pog, waste of keys tho
warm pendant
You could also consider mirror choices to lower your damage taken. The cast one comes to mind.
daring hedge
no such thing as a waste of keys once you amass a ridiculous amount 
shy axle
it feels more like im dodging poorly rather than struggling to understand the fight
warm pendant
Are you burning your dodges together or spacing them half a second or so?
daring hedge
also are you playing with FO2 active or no FO
shy axle
I use FO all the time
daring hedge
because that changes the dodge timing on spins etc. pretty noticeably
then yeah with FO2 it's mostly reaction timing
shy axle
seems like my problem is poor dash use
somber rose
if you're getting new seeds for a while i'd recommend just resetting your mirror to remove DD/SD until you get what you want
@daring hedge Why not just max out routine inspection and go out with guan yu?
if your goal is to die fast
daring hedge
because then you lose your greater reflex
which makes getting out to the courtyard faster
GY though sure
limpid nymph
Ok so am I just bad with melee weapons? Because I find it so much easier to get in my damage at higher heat without getting hit with ranged weapons
And there doesnโt really seem to be that big of a damage difference between ranged and melee builds
On average
And I could be wrong, or just suck lol
shy axle
exactly what aspects do you use?
limpid nymph
Chiron, Hera, Chaos, Nemesis, Poseidon (for cast builds), Luci, Gilgamesh, Demeter, Hades, Zag spear
Iโve gotten some pretty crazy nemesis seeds just to die in asphodel
I hate that place
shy axle
all of those? you have a very wide range of weapons. i think its more preference
limpid nymph
Yeah I mean I havenโt exactly been trying higher heats for awhile, and I enjoy a lot but have been narrowing down what Iโm using
bronze stratus
fists r gr8
shy axle
what part of asphodel do u hate? lava?
limpid nymph
And I often donโt have enough upgrades or health for stubborn defiance
daring hedge
not that using ranged means you don't pay attention to your own position because of course it does, but i think melee weapons force you to flex that competency a lot more
like with asphodel lava
limpid nymph
Ye probably
daring hedge
i'd guess that if you just played more melee at high heat you'll naturally get more used to it and take less damage
i know that's such a 5head answer but
yeah
limpid nymph
Itโs hard for me to dash out of something without dashing right into lava which is annoying cause I need to die for more health for the next room
I actually preferred melee for a long time
But I wasnโt very good then either lol
shy axle
ever try talos fists? melee but lets u bring the enemies too you, solving positioning problem
bronze stratus
practice makes progress.
limpid nymph
Talos was my go to for fists until I found Demeter
bronze stratus
try more runs
shy axle
demeter is a fun burst dmg build
bronze stratus
Demeter plus casts
limpid nymph
Yup Iโve done some pretty crazy things with it
bronze stratus
melee casts
shy axle
what heat u go for on average
limpid nymph
Talos is just annoying cause everything is armored with perks
Iโm somewhat comfortable in the 20โs with some weapons
Havenโt done many serious runs but I did just do 32 heat on chiron in three tries today
shy axle
am i right in assuming you like burst damage hit and run playstyles?
limpid nymph
That wasnโt too bad actually because I got lucky in ellysium (or however you spell that)
Um
I mean I assume most people donโt like to get hit lol
But sure
I do actually like Dionysus though
daring hedge
yeah he's a chill dude
limpid nymph
And Iโm pretty sure not getting hit when everything does 100 damage is just, a good idea
*100%+
shy axle
dionysus very fun for rapid DOT
btw by burst damage hit and run I mean running in, dealing a chunk of damage, then escaping to ready ur next burst
limpid nymph
I mean ye I would say so
shy axle
like charging demeter special, taking out an enemy or two then fleeing
limpid nymph
Yes I mean not if I donโt need to but sure
dawn narwhal
I am totally fine with +60% damage patch
100% damage taken may be too much but 60% is totally manageble
dawn narwhal
first one hard labor
tardy path
I still find high heat more challenging than running fast (moving from #h1-discussion)
12 minutes is fast but I'd like to reach 50 heat more than that T^T
bronze stratus
yo
should I go ath or zeus for asphodel?
I've got a complete build for GY, Zeus Call, but no Athena Dash ๐ฆ
(16 heat run)
honest kernel
pick athena if you want her dash
haughty blade
I haven't unlocked a single companion yet, but which one should be maxed? The one that drops health?
ruby cipher
Whatever you consider important for your strategy. I use the one that drops health. However, I haven't upgraded any of them since buying another use in shops is not that expensive.
mossy zinc
@bronze stratus do you have both Heartbreak Flourish and Zeus' Aid?
bronze stratus
Yeah.
didn't get smoldering air but I already had quick favor
so it was close enough
mossy zinc
Ah, you already won.
bronze stratus
I took high voltage which was quite nice
yep ๐
and lightning reflexes is so damn good
it works for any melee build
and has no prerequisites
and isn't a dash
๐
mossy zinc
?
bronze stratus
hm
uncut wigeon
Threw away a perfectly good Nemesis run with heroic Aphros on 12 poms and whatnot
๐ฆ
maybe because I'm not used to FO anymore
maybe its just the fates letting me know I'm trash
either way
๐ฆ
I know nemesis sword is great, but I kill myself most often playing it.
Which is hilarious because of how much I play fist.
mossy zinc
We've all needlessly died with amazing builds.
Hmm.
Well.
Just get Divine Strike and Divine Dash. It should suit your playstyle if you like to be aggressive. 
mossy zinc
Get both.
uncut wigeon
Styx got extra ignorant with me though.
wonder if its worth relearning the game in keyboard and mouse just for the different movement options it offers.
crystal iron
still not quite sure what is the best way to use it, but I think it ||makes you immune to damage? I used it in EM4 fight and was able to avoid the damage from lasers. So it's like Athena's call, but with a bit of a damage bonus. It's ok.||
strong adder
Anyone got idea for 32 heat run with Chiron? I'm trying with Artemis on special and maybe Ares on attack?
ruby cipher
Doesn't sound bad
waxen jewel
there is an event on 21 heat? becouse i am forcefully blocked (no reward)
secondary for hight heat the best (in my opinion) is try aphrodite+zeus+hermes+excalibur and go for fast zeus call-harder hades on one hp bar
or 100% dodge build help on all weapons
mossy zinc
@strong adder try Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish, and go for Heart Rend.
@waxen jewel there just aren't any bounties for 21 Heat and above.
topaz flame
Quick question.. what is considered "high heat" here?
mossy zinc
There's no clear definition. I usually mean 40+ when I say "high heat", but for others it's different.
waxen jewel
then there is needed to equally heat up weapons?
mossy zinc
There've been people here asking for help with 16 Heat or something, and we certainly don't send them away.
topaz flame
Heat 40 sounds insane... I'm having a lot of trouble just in heat 15 with aspect of arthur.. What punishments do y'all take first/in priority usually?
ruby cipher
The achievements end on 16 heat right? I took that as a sign that anything past that is not highly incentivized by the devs
waxen jewel
first are harder boos aand midbooss +time
mossy zinc
They made the channel originally because we asked them to give us a separate space for high heat, which for us was basically 40+ at time, or 32+ for some.
waxen jewel
i say 32+ is high heat-above is just for fun
mossy zinc
Because our 40+ discussions intimidated other players in #h1-builds-and-combat and stuff like that.
topaz flame
I usually take FO first, due to how much it gives in heat, but dunno how much it's been seen to impact
waxen jewel
10 get for harder boss + 2 for harder miniboss +5 for harder gold enemy
17 heat for 3 things
mossy zinc
Also had unnecessary arguments when we were discussing "viability" and strategy for 40+ and others were chiming in with opinions for 6 Heat or something . . . which didn't help either party really.
Hence the creation of this channel.
topaz flame
That makes sense
waxen jewel
@mossy zinc #h1-builds-and-combat chat is mostly about ffun buiid for no pro in hades, this is mostly about efficiency build
ruby cipher
Builds and combat is Duck Dynasty, this is Ice Road Truckers
waxen jewel
if you whant go higher than 16 heat then u had idea to test how high heat you can beat
mossy zinc
@Nyaanyaa Mewmew #h1-builds-and-combat chat is mostly about ffun buiid for no pro in hades, this is mostly about efficiency build
I'm honestly not sure I understand what you're saying.
ruby cipher
You're a pro sports hades player
waxen jewel
@mossy zinc there u can mostly get a build that lessen a difficulties from a player (makes thinks easier, more casual) or more fun build (like- one shot hades)-but most of this build dont help that much on 16+ heat
like for beginners athena is good for attacks but on higher heat u would like someone witch higher dmg output and athena on dodge
mossy zinc
Actually, you will want Divine Strike on high heat, too.
But at 16โ32, you can still do whatever you want with your build and have success.
strong adder
@mossy zinc - Thanks.
frank aspen
I feel as if forced overtime makes higher heats more difficult
strong adder
For sure
honest kernel
yeah
im gonna grind for 45 heat ๐งโโ๏ธ
until spelunky comes out anyways which is 3 days
got a nice beo starting seed
the nerf on charged throw does hurt tho
tidal flame
Imagine playing other games that is not Hades
honest kernel
bruisers are kinda nasty with the mdg nerf
other enemies still get crushed so its ok
tidal flame
mdg?
mossy zinc
Madage.
sterile crown
Gotta get that ibg madage numbers.
bronze viper
Owl Pendant and Acorn will be the most prevalent keepsakes at high heat. The "default" setup is usually God > Athena > Acorn > Acorn if you're running EM3+
I usually start Artemis or Dionysus for Chiron.
scenic tinsel
what do you mean with god? any god keepsake?
scenic tinsel
ok
tidal flame
I would also suggest Poseidon
scenic tinsel
@bronze viper why is athena so important? Because we need something to deflect? Or because of damage reduction?
mossy zinc
Divine Dash, Last Stand, Deathless Stand.
bronze viper
If you get Athena organically in the run you can go Aphro in Asphodel for a shot at a duo boon, or maybe Ares for Curse of Nausea and Battle Rage.
bronze viper
I think God boon probably wins out in those situations unless AP2 is active, in which case purse or acorn get a lot more appealing. Or just more Athena
mossy zinc
Coin Purse means you get more boons or a Touch of Styx or whatever you like. That's pretty big.
It's a good choice. Always depends on what you got in Tartarus.
Sometimes you already have everything you need, too.
forest lichen
is Doom better in high heat than in low heat?
clever otter
please dont evade the swear filter @dawn narwhal
dawn narwhal
there is a swear filter?
clever otter
yep
uncut wigeon
Proxybot is prettt straightlaced
Holy nuts, I cant talk about detective richard tracy
LMAO
Proxybot thought the yellow robed GOAT was a swear word
Thats amazing
๐ ๐ ๐ ๐
strong adder
Can't do 32 heat it seems. Must practice more!
limpid nymph
I wonder if I should go for forty heat or something cause 32 heat only took a couple tries just not sure I want to deal with more stress so soon lol
I want to be able to say Iโm competent though
bronze viper
Bow is amazing.
daring hedge
easiest direction for bow is likely zag or rama with twin shot and a solid attack boon
it really doesn't take much nowadays
bronze viper
Avoid DC with bow. Rama doesn't care about it though, especially if you go hangover or lightning on special
austere cape
what is DC @bronze viper
also I love Rama too, but I think Twin Shot is worse than Triple Shot. Approximate 1.5x times worse :V
Twin Shot has slower charge time, but Triple shot doesn't? Just dash in and just hit all three for shotgun bow
dull scroll
Agreed about the triple shot. Both times I finished a Rama run it was carried by triple shot
vague fossil
@austere cape All acronyms are in pinned, DC is Damage Control
strong adder
I'm Using Chiron aspect
vague fossil
Chiron doesn't really care about DC btw
strong adder
Yeah DC is the blue hearts thing right?
vague fossil
Yes
ember bronze
Here's a bow 32 I just got yesterday ( #h1-victory-boasting ). I basically always play Chiron
I've also been trying out greedy starts (Coin Purse or Pom Blossom), going into gods for acts 2 and 3 flexibly
vague fossil
I like an unconventional Chiron built with Doom. WIth right hammers it already deals nice pure damage to single target, so it's nice to have an ability to spread Doom over a pack of foes, and with Dire Misfortune it also starts to contribute well when fighting bosses. I haven't yet tested it at 32 (except one time when I got super rare unrelated combo that just melted everything) but at 20 it felt great
ember bronze
Results in more varied builds--it's good just for fun if nothing else
Start something organically in act1 and build off it in acts 2 and 3
There's in little advantage where if you're playing gods that dropped organically, and then keepsake them, you can more reliably force yourself deeper into their tree
strong adder
what is your heat/mirror set-up?
ember bronze
You can see in the screenshot (for that run)
somber rose
what are some good minimalistic builds I can rely on to start being effective early in a run, on 32 heat?
so that I can get to hades with 3 defiances
limpid nymph
I did Chiron with doom as well in my run actually. Definitely better damage options, but it clicks with me especially for bosses (which were honestly easier for me)
I run 0 healing, so I always go stubborn defiance
daring hedge
late to respond to this but: twin shot does not charge slower. the timing for power shots is exactly the same, it's just that the charge duration takes place over a shorter range because of its penalty
as long as you're close it really doesn't matter
limpid nymph
And pray for pat
ember bronze
Pet gives you 50% for 15 rooms?
so you have to be lucky to get to Hades with it active?
limpid nymph
Itโs more for end of ellysium I donโt have trouble with hades typically
Itโs real nice insurance
You can finish Styx with somewhat high health even with some mess ups cause you can die every room to heal
ember bronze
I feel like I have to get way better at Hades for the 30+30% health for the LC4+stubborn play
limpid nymph
Not the expert though I would listen to tail rn
daring hedge
SD does force you to improve against bosses
but SD also loves acorn for elysium and styx to account for mistakes
limpid nymph
Yeah I run acorn for elysium and Styx
honest kernel
do you guys go for divine and last stand with SD too? did something change about the boons?
daring hedge
and yeah pat's kiss of styx is just really nice. extra cushion for EM3 champs and hades too if you get 2sack, which is reasonably often
honest kernel
wasnt it 50% per room
daring hedge
yeah, i don't know the exact odds but i don't believe you have the same chance for 5 as 2
limpid nymph
I donโt use the Athena boons cause I donโt have healing and impervious hasnโt made or broke anything yet
daring hedge
@honest kernel that would definitely make sense actually
ember bronze
so 1/8 for a 5sack? maybe that tracks
honest kernel
someone once figured the odds out but I dont remember
limpid nymph
Iโve been experimenting with the new pom keepsake in Tartarus on certain builds actually
honest kernel
but yeah the odds are def high to get it 2nd or 3rd
limpid nymph
I've liked it, but I'm sure if I go higher than 32 it will probably be a liability
ember bronze
Both my 32 heat win yesterday I tried the Pom start
I mentioned above--I'm a little odd, I habitually used to play coin/god/god/acorn
honest kernel
the pom keepsake sounds nice but forcing gods is just needed tbh ๐ (and acorn for not dying)
ember bronze
and I've been trying pom instead of coin for a better rampup benefit (3poms in act 1, instead of ~200g for act4)
I'm not surprised act1 god is considered min/maxy, but I want to encourage trying without it for flexibility and interesting build decisions
daring hedge
Yeah, like toffel said, pom is fun but I can't imagine it being worth the trouble over gods and acorn at 40+ etc
honest kernel
40+ kinda wants you to go for more specific builds otherwise pom is nice ye
the hades keepsake is rly wierd
limpid nymph
what if you get a special boon (i.e. on spear or something) as your first boon and you aren't running underworld customs?
honest kernel
its nice conceptually but I haven't gotten much use out of it
ember bronze
I struggle to think Hades call is better than Athena call
limpid nymph
I had a suuuuper fun build with smoldering air with hades call on twin shot rama build
daring hedge
agreed
hades keepsake is a cool idea but just not good enough to cut it at high heat
limpid nymph
yeah
honest kernel
the minor call does nothing the greater one is...ok?
daring hedge
right
it's a weird investment that isn't even good enough to make that sacrifice worth it
limpid nymph
the minor was good for repositioning and it works well with the bow
honest kernel
going invisible doesnt work out for me
daring hedge
same, like
enemies will go berserk and lash out while i'm invisible typically
and sometimes hit me anyways
limpid nymph
oh
honest kernel
yeah
ember bronze
This is random but since I'm playing right now
I cannot do the new Act1 miniboss well
honest kernel
I think the greater one gives you more invicibilty
ember bronze
sorry, the teleporting wizard
daring hedge
teleporting rogue
honest kernel
I kinda just dash around and hit them really hard when they try to stab you
when I have a ranged weapon I also go for snipes when they shoot
daring hedge
yeah, their biggest window is when they get directly behind. they linger for a second or two
honest kernel
but you mostly just wanna wait for the stab
ember bronze
does it always teleport on getting hit once?
limpid nymph
no
honest kernel
not after the stab
daring hedge
it just teleports regardless
limpid nymph
it also still has a punish window even on it's ranged
yeah
one tick of rail doesn't make it teleport
it just does it naturally
after a set amount of time
which isn't that bad
ember bronze
I guess I don't like that it clears debuffs
daring hedge
yeah, it's kind of a pain with hades aspect early on since the mark dissipates every single teleport
ember bronze
and Chiron
honest kernel
sometimes I burn meg on it bc its really annoying
limpid nymph
meg is just so easy to use
faster than than
and you can pretty much always find a setup to hit things
limpid nymph
now that you can use keepsakes against hades, I pretty much only go bat or ant
and primarily meg
ember bronze
1500 instant, then 1500 a bit (a second and a half?) later
daring hedge
or one thing if there's one target
limpid nymph
but that's mainly for elysium boss
but meg does more
and can hit both anyway at the beginning
so I tend to use meg the most
ember bronze
because not AoE?
limpid nymph
I mean idk I just haven't found a use for it over meg or something
honest kernel
it does less than meg and its single target
daring hedge
i def prefer meg to antos
ember bronze
it does more ST damage than Meg
daring hedge
antos can do more on a single target but it's less flexible overall
ember bronze
but yeah, I get why it's unusual
limpid nymph
yeah
ember bronze
my main use case is just trying to burst something down ST
limpid nymph
that's true
it's only a 500 damage difference but I can see that
(if I remember the numbers correctly)
meg is 2500, right?
daring hedge
its targeting is pretty indiscriminate so it can make some bad calls in certain situations e.g. hades summons
honest kernel
ah yeah
limpid nymph
right
daring hedge
while you can easily control meg's output yourself
honest kernel
so ant does more I misremembered
limpid nymph
meg angles can also screw you
but you can just time it
like in elysium boss I move upwards a bit before summoning
which hits both
daring hedge
yeah, meg does well if you just make a small effort to CC your targets close together
like with MM styx minibosses
limpid nymph
against the butterfly ball you just gotta be next to it and hope it doesn't bait you by teleporting
daring hedge
yeah, always meg the giant soulcatcher right after it teleports
limpid nymph
lol
honest kernel
they changed the ball so it teleports later now its easier imo
limpid nymph
yes
it's not that bad
right now my uses are asphodel miniboss if given the gargoyle one, lernie, elysium miniboss, elysium boss, a styx miniboss if I choose it, and hades if I have left over cause he's not my problem without em4
although I always miss in asphodel on the miniboss lol
daring hedge
i tend to be extremely stingy with my battie uses, so typically i'll only use it on giant soulcatcher (sometimes), EM3 champs, styx minibosses and now hades
limpid nymph
got it
yeah I've been thinking about not using in asphodel
cause I always whiff the mini boss
daring hedge
though versus tiny vermin there's still at least a 25% chance i'll just miss lol
limpid nymph
and the annoying part of lernie is with the heads spamming projectiles, not when it's just the main head
on tiny vermine I make sure to hit it first
so it doesn't disappear
and get close
daring hedge
yeah, i know some people like to use it on main head to phase faster on speedruns etc., but for high heat it's more handy to use it on the large extra heads wave
honest kernel
white heads on fo2....
ember bronze
How exactly does Quick Recovery work?
limpid nymph
I just don't run fo if I can afford it
ember bronze
(i.e. is it just a lot of free healing if you dash a lot)
limpid nymph
I'd rather have 0 healing and maxed hl than fo
honest kernel
FO is the necessary evil
daring hedge
even though i've had to take quick recovery sometimes, i pretty much never consciously notice it working
honest kernel
I feelt it when I picked it
theres like a small healing effect you get
you die less quickly
daring hedge
does it still work with LC4?
honest kernel
actually i dont know?
daring hedge
i guess i run LC4 so much that it makes sense that i wouldn't pay attention to healing there
other than SD defies
honest kernel
its a % heal and the dio one doesnt heal either right
limpid nymph
lemme check my screenshot
honest kernel
so it probably doesnt work
daring hedge
yeah
limpid nymph
huh
daring hedge
i thought i heard a while back that for some reason it did work with LC4 active
limpid nymph
why do I feel like I never saw a 0
daring hedge
but that could have been wrong
limpid nymph
no it might actually
because I swear I didn't see a 0
and I picked it in styx
so either I'm blind and dumb
or it works
daring hedge
yeah, the percentage on it when you pick it makes no mention of LC affecting its potency
which is odd
limpid nymph
either is possible at this rate
ember bronze
Does Battle Rage work on spear spin (sorry, just random questions while playing)
daring hedge
not unless you manage to very specifically kill something with the attack or dash-strike needed to go into a spin
ember bronze
figured, thanks
daring hedge
so usually no, not ever lol
limpid nymph
that always annoyed me
hades spin doesn't work with minor hades call like hades does it...
daring hedge
i still think battle rage should only use its proc when you actually hit a foe
daring hedge
yeah, it's just kind of underwhelming on most boss fights and on rapid strike aspects
wanton plover
im gonna do just em4 on hell mode with hidden spear aspect how should i build this lol
im thinking athena atk and maybe aphro on special? but ive been seeing people do poseidon special
honest kernel
aphro special is solid
I died to hades on 45 never ending story ๐
the summon phase makes me poo pants
I feel like hades spawns more skulls in 1.0
next time im gonna try to take a break before hades and see if it helps
I always have stamina issues with the fight I feel like
bronze stratus
@wanton plover Aph special with charged skewer. Grab Athena dash and some poms
tidal flame
@honest kernel maybe make a practice save and do it a couple of times? that's what I am doing for EM4.
honest kernel
ok seriously
the spear seems like the worst weapon
it's garbage lmao
how do you top tier theorycrafters use it lmao
modest latch
its pretty good
trim nebula
it's garbage lmao
@honest kernel hades aspect is real fun
Shoutout to tail
There he is
Typing
daring hedge
@honest kernel zag spear likes a special focus (exploding launcher in particular) or even flurry jab with something like thunder strike
achilles works best with various casts after charging, or even boosted flurry jab/serrated point
hades marks everything with punishing sweep before attacking, ideally with either serrated point or exploding launcher depending on attack or special focus respectively. regular attack works too
GY can go full spin-centric or ideally just charged skewer with aphro or artemis flourish
i can't help but step in whenever spear is called garbage lol
bronze viper
I know, my inner salt lord comes out when people start the "Bow is trash" nonsense
It was true in Blood Price, but still
daring hedge
exactly
hollow lynx
i prefer to say that bow was great in blood price and now it's amazing 
bronze viper
Lol, that's a positive way of looking at it
hollow lynx
if complaining about bow would lead to buffs to my main, then complain all y'all want
bronze viper
The complaints worked. Imo~~ they overbuffed ~~ didn't buff it enough but I will never admit to that.
hollow lynx
no they didn't delete that message rn ๐ซ
restive marten
Does anyone have any advice for a 32 heat run, made it to Hades a few times with the bow, but damage just seems a bit low
trim blaze
with just bow? or any weapon?
restive marten
Anyone weapon, but I also really struggle with Thesus if I'm not using a ranged weapon
hollow lynx
at least 2 ranks of both EM and TD, one rank of FO, MM, and one rank of BP as a base
from there, you can choose as needed for your preference
EM3 can be a given too, but some weapons can struggle with it. EM4 and TD3 can be a real brutal combo
restive marten
Yeah been using EM4, and it is a struggle
hollow lynx
from there i'd consider FO2, BP2, UC, DC2 (depending on the weapon), HS, RI, or AP to fill up the rest towards 32
daring hedge
i
would personally avoid AP at all costs
until i have to use it
but i just really dislike AP
also before 1.0 i would have also recommended RI but dark foresight being so good now... i feel like leaving out RI might be worth it sometimes
with all the extra health and boons that can also help dilute your UC pool
hollow lynx
the rest of the pact is player preference entirely, so i'll leave it up to you to decide on those
i like using DC, CF, LC, and CP as "filler heats" in case whatever else i chose didn't go up to 32 perfectly
daring hedge
now i'm trying to imagine someone doing 32 with absolutely no points in EM or MM
which would be... odd but i'm sure it happens
hollow lynx
that would be very odd
and you'd just be buffing them in separate ways regardless, in some cases even worse than what EM might replace
daring hedge
yeah
not to mention honestly putting off getting used to EM and MM fights is just hindering yourself in the long run
hollow lynx
sometimes i find non em theseus to be harder than em a&t
he's just so much less annoying when you have EM on
daring hedge
hmm honestly i kind of agree other than when his bullet sprees eat through my acorn immediately because i didn't move out of the center fast enough
tidal flame
God speed brother
uncut wigeon
Whats the heat record on Zeus Shield?
daring hedge
not super confident in this since there very well may be others who have done higher that i don't know about
but it might be me with 45
somber rose
WTF i just finished 32 heat for the first time this year and it was super easy
hestia ftw
somber rose
lol...
somber rose
it did felt easier than all other attempts I've had
what's the next easiest aspect to try to finish with?
daring hedge
would've said chaos but now... not as much
hollow lynx
i'm sure beowulf charged throw will get you there
arthur might be a promising expenditure too
even with the charged throw nerf, it's still pretty stronk
somber rose
i tried beuwulf special right before
died on tartatus lol
a room full of crystals killing me with lasers during the startup of the special
daring hedge
charged flight kind of makes it come out even faster if you don't charge it much, which is still strong
also @hollow lynx i discovered it is indeed charged flight
and not throw, which is interesting
hollow lynx
bruh i could've sworn it was throw in-game
somber rose
well hestia or not, at least i'm worthy of the 32 heat statue now
daring hedge
absolutely, congrats!
hollow lynx
absolutely
somber rose
so now to aim for beowulf? I don't see myself doing well with excalibur because i get hit a lot when trying to use slow close ranged moves
hollow lynx
i got mine using pre-nerf charged flight, i would have no room to talk about broken builds
somber rose
the time i got the 32 heat statue a long time ago was when high rolling hunting blades was the go-to way
daring hedge
GY with charged skewer and heartbreak or deadly flourish is still effective. the lower health can make it not a total sweep for some but it's still very powerful
hollow lynx
tbh hunting blades is still very, very OP, it just has to share its spotlight with other builds now lol
somber rose
it used to be much better at homing, stuck on them like glue
I also used the stubborn defiance+no healing+high prices setup. Just had to make sure I'm on point against Hades.
fair trout
genuinely curious
is EM4 worth going?
i finially finished heat 16, but i didnt do EM4
i'm pretty comfortable with EM3 now, still sometimes die if I have forced overtime on
hollow lynx
uhhhhh still figuring that out myself
with td3 on, i time out on em4 even with a 3-sack
no margin of error lol
daring hedge
yeah EM4 is tough on its own, becomes brutal in concert with one or many heat options at once in the same run
TD3 HL5 FO2 EM4 alone is extremely alarming
hollow lynx
50 base damage on that spear throw is brutal