is wristes run online anywhere?
#h1-high-heat-strategies
royal wagon
honest kernel
Achilles and Hunting Blades is of course amazing.
Crystal Clarity would probably also be great.
autumn sable
@royal wagon https://www.twitch.tv/videos/684867152?t=00h47m06s
royal wagon
thanks Krasher!
royal wagon
definitely liking achilles better than GY
royal wagon
wriste's run is ridiculous lol
royal wagon
I watched your run this morning! Super happy for you, congrats
also not ridiculous in terms of skill but just boons etc for wriste's run
royal wagon
I think thats always the way of things at that point
I'd be surprised to see any 50+ heat run that didn't have a few rooms ending at like 10 hp
mossy zinc
Hmmm. Well, there's still a lot of room for improvement for me.
royal wagon
I'm sure anyone playing at that level feels the same about themselves. You're only perfect when you never get hit. But you got it done which is what counts
mossy zinc
Lots of things I haven't really put any practice in yet. Like I haven't grinded any particular BP2 chambers that are difficult or all the MM minibosses.
A lot of clearing without taking (a lot of) hits is strategy, really. There are good ways to deal with different enemies and rooms, and there are bad ways.
E.g., when you fight EM Asterius between a pillar and a wall, his bull rush becomes a non-issue.
You just dash through him, and he'll slam into the wall or pillar trying to turn 180.
royal wagon
true, and I'm sure there's equivalent for other rooms etc. There's always room for improvement
Are you planning to try 53?
mossy zinc
I don't have any plans at the moment. I haven't even slept since beating 52 lol.
Well, a one-hour nap.
tidal flame
go to sleep, yikes
honest kernel
YOIKES
mossy zinc
I will in a bit. I was watching WWE with my brother lol.
honest kernel
@mossy zinc wots the current storyline
honest kernel
i do hope Bray Wyatt finally get his day in the sun
mossy zinc
I dunno, I only watch Wrestlemania and some other events here and there anymore.
honest kernel
ah
mossy zinc
Very off-topic though lol.
honest kernel
tru
bronze viper
;_; much sadness wow. probably 3 seconds from killing dad on 40 with rama (would've been my first 40 on bow), but got unfortunate placement of urns when he started firing his lasers. Well, at least i proved to myself i was capable of doing it lol
mossy zinc
I almost died to urns and 360 beam lol.
They're scary.
You could consider taking off Heightened Security and putting that point into something else.
Makes the Temple of Styx and Hades so much easier.
bronze viper
i'm not convinced it's possible to do high heat Rama with 7 minutes, so that's where most of my points are lost
even with great EM3 rng as far as placement (i had chain shot + triple shot) I still only finished in 7:18
mossy zinc
Krashercorr had TD2.
bronze viper
(obviously it's possible, I meant for me at this moment. I have not yet done it a single time, even at low heat, with maximum bless)
with rama
lol, that's moderately confounded by the fact that as i've gotten better, i've been increasing the heat, so yeah
mossy zinc
7:18 is only 90 damage from TD2.
bronze viper
ironically high heat rama should be much easier for me once i do figure out how to do it, since i'll be able to re-allocate 3 heat from nowhere
mossy zinc
You could watch a recording of your run to see where you could save time.
And watch Krashercorr's.
You'll notice some differences like "hey I can be more aggressive vs this kind of enemy" and things like that. Definitely helps a lot to study how other players handled things you have trouble with.
bronze viper
Yeah, I just started recording my runs today, i lose time in elysium from kiting flame wheels and chariots (kiting is a polite term.. Running for dear life and shooting behind me every once in a while is more accurate)
mossy zinc
Skelly will help with Flamewheels.
bronze viper
oh, right, that's a great point i meant to try that
mossy zinc
Otherwise, you can aggro and then dash back and forth across a gap or any other wide obstacle.
bronze viper
i was running Antos for elysium mini-bosses and to "skip" the megagorgon in Asphodel
mossy zinc
Skelly helps a lot with the Power Couple, too.
The Skullcrusher will just hit Skelly, and you can rush down the Megagorgon in peace.
bronze viper
Yeah I heard that, but I haven't seen it so I'm not sure where to put Skelly so he get sminimally rekt
in EM3*
mossy zinc
EM3? No, the Power Couple is the Megagorgon + Skullcrusher.
Zagreus calls them that.
"It's my favorite power couple!" something like that.
bronze viper
Yeah, I get that, I meant as far as EM3, which is my bottleneck. Does Skelly work in that fight or does he just get instantly wrecked
honest kernel
It works, but Asterius and bombs make pretty quick work of him.
jaunty stone
bronze viper
I've gotten stockholm syndrome with it. It was my least favorite fight but I kept doing it enough that it's my favorite now.
mossy zinc
@bronze viper see for yourself. 
https://youtu.be/d4VGZ5NXbkM?t=1554
bronze viper
interesting. So even though Theseus was closer to Skelly initially he can never get taunted by him?
bronze viper
So you just hit Theseus until Asterius finishes? That's pretty cool, it's not nearly as good as the 3k from Achilles, but it should be in the neighborhood and it'll let me remove 3x Jury Summons for TD2
mossy zinc
Theseus is the bigger problem as far as being able to land any hits in time on him goes.
So I wanted to get as much damage in on him as possible while he was in reach.
Asterius will always get close to you anyway to be within attack range.
bronze viper
Yeah when i was starting to learn EM3 it was 95% Asterius that was killing me, but i'm finding now that Theseus will just chip me to death if I focus Asterius too hard
mossy zinc
It's even less the chipping away and more the zooming around the arena so that you can't hit him at all.
That prolongs the fight a lot.
bronze viper
Right
mossy zinc
You also want to try to take each of them down into phase 2 while the other is still alive.
That way there's always someone you can deal damage to.
bronze viper
Yeah I learned that fairly recently. From a safety perspective it's better to focus one but it's not teneble from time
Dio Rama doesn't really care about focusing though I just pew pew whoever's closer and ti's basically the same
mossy zinc
If you kill Asterius before Theseus enters phase 2, you're wasting ~7 seconds eventually just waiting for Theseus's phase transition.
honest kernel
rama dakka is bae
mossy zinc
It's actually safer to focus down both at the same time if you can.
Because the fight is a lot shorter that way.
bronze viper
It's by far my favorite weapon. I'm absolutely in love with this build lol
mossy zinc
It's not always possible to focus on both, unfortunately
Good luck trying to catch up to Asterius with only one dash.
Er.
Theseus lol.
mossy zinc
But even if you're focusing on Asterius first, you should prioritize getting in as much damage as you on Theseus whenever he's in reach.
bronze viper
What has been working for me is chasing around Theseus until Mino decides to attack me and i'll switch then. eventually Mino will either start a spin or a phase transition and i'll switch back to theseus then
I doubt that works with 1 dash, in that case it'd probably be better to attack Mino and wait for Theseus to come to you and attack him/both when he does
mossy zinc
I don't know. I don't really use Rama. And I suck with bow lol.
honest kernel
that's the beauty of it though
rama dakka doesnt feel like bow
it's a submachine gun
(and a shotgun
bronze viper
It's barely a bow lol. It feels more like a SMG with a shotgun stapled to it
mossy zinc
I only used Rama day 1 in the beta when it was an actual machine gun lol.
bronze viper
Kind of lol. Otherwise i wish they'd tweak Thunder Flourish to be actually usable on anything other than Chaos aspect, but to be fair you can use literally anything on Chaos special and it'd be fine
mossy zinc
That 52 heat run with Beowulf makes me wish more aspects had that potential.
bronze viper
I can't imagine a non-shield doing a 50+ run. Mostly because you get an invulnerable "dash" with the shield
mossy zinc
Thunder Flourish is actually pretty good on the other bow aspects.
bronze viper
How do you figure? It only procs once
mossy zinc
No, it doesn't.
It only procs once every 200 msec per individual enemy.
Coronacht's Volley can hit a lot of different enemies.
And it will proc on each of them.
honest kernel
i think it used to proc only once
bronze viper
Yeah, that's how it behaves on every weapon. So it has no function on single target
mossy zinc
It's actually not bad on the Zagreus Aspect of Varatha.
I can't imagine a non-shield doing a 50+ run. Mostly because you get an invulnerable "dash" with the shield
Bull Rush is barely a factor at all for Beowulf.
Both horheristo and I didn't use it for most of the run.
bronze viper
Yeah I like it on GY special in Tartarus/Asphodel. I'm usually looking to sell it if necessary into Elysium though
Assuming I'm going spin to win
honest kernel
like father like son
uncut pebble
oh what do you focus on with beowulf ?
mossy zinc
It helps vs Hades primarily because of the block. But it's not strictly necessary, there are other, fundamental ways to deal with him that work with every weapon.
@uncut pebble Charged Flight.
mossy zinc
I'm sorry.
bronze viper
Yeah, beo special feels so good
uncut pebble
ah ok
bronze viper
also obv you can't do the cast beo builds on 50+
autumn sable
don't really need block when you can deal Arthur damage from across the map
uncut pebble
prefered boons ?
honest kernel
arty flourish
honest kernel
but the big numbers π¦
mossy zinc
You're already one-shotting most things.
Or two-shotting.
If the number of hits to kill doesn't change, it doesn't help to go for more damage potential but give up Weak.
Beowulf takes 10% more damage already.
Weak completely negates that and adds some 20% damage mitigation.
uncut pebble
do you go for the extra damage on undamaged minions with beowulf ?
or still backstab
honest kernel
honestly that's a good point
its not like you are gonna line up the backstab right?
bronze viper
Backstab's pretty solid against greatshields and Dad
honest kernel
with FO?
shadow zodiac
check pinned
honest kernel
?
shadow zodiac
in pinned msgs
bronze viper
You don't have to line up backstabs against dad, half of his attacks are linear lunges that are optimal to dodge by going behind him
honest kernel
@shadow zodiac what is in pinned msgs
shadow zodiac
all the short forms for the pact
bronze viper
obviously you can't ALWAYS go behind him
honest kernel
WITH FO, not **WHAT'S **FO
bronze viper
but it's by easiest boss to backstab consistently, at least for me
mossy zinc
I take Shadow Presence, but I guess you could take Fiery Presence.
honest kernel
ik wot it means
shadow zodiac
ohhhhhhhhhh
honest kernel
dood
bronze viper
Does an elite losing its armor still count as undamaged?
If so then Fiery is def better
honest kernel
Fiery Presence + arty flourish for the BIGGEST of numbers
mossy zinc
It's not "definitely" better because I care more about minibosses and bosses, personally.
sharp cobalt
And I'm like 90% sure that taking armor damage counts as taking damage.
Fiery presence doesn't let you strip all armor with the bonus.
honest kernel
I never liked fiery bc I wanna kill the bosses faster
also how does fiery interact with DC
sharp cobalt
I think in the good way.
DC is just a buff that makes them ignore damage, not extra health. I think.
bronze viper
If it did that work that way (as in armor didn't count as damage), every miniboss has armor, and dad makes armored mobs in p1, so it's not worthless there, and you'd get a near permanent damage buff against elites. I suppose that's why it doesn't work that way lol.
sharp cobalt
Well, you'd get a damage buff for 50% of their health anyway.
50% isn't near permanent. But it would be pretty good.
honest kernel
I'd rather remove armor faster than not getting a bonus on it tbh
sharp cobalt
Then just backstab, easy π
honest kernel
well fiery activates on armor thats what we were talking about right
getting armor down quick is quite nice actually
sharp cobalt
It activates once on armor as I understand it.
Which is... Fine? It's fine.
It's better than not having a mirror buff, but backstabs are often better.
umbral estuary
you can seed runs? @_@
iron mural
not really seed but
u roll the run until your first boon is a decent run
like maybe an epic zeus boon start or sth
to make your life easier
umbral estuary
oh so like other than using the gift boon boosters?
honestly ive noticed that my best runs are with the fists because of the dps combo with athena dash. but my best survival run was with the swords lifesteal and running hearts every time they come up. Getting a hammer for the auto attack speed really helps as well.
but as far as boons go your best bet is to level the god trinkets to their max levels and know what you wanna build for.
honest kernel
u gotta die over and over until you get the starting boon you want
honest kernel
no :/
trim sigil
Yeah, gotta endure tons of fails first
And even then not forget to forcequit runs if you die on actual seed you want
in fact i have changed the opinion about seeds at certain point and decided to seed for 40 run, but the best i got from that was rare heartbreak strike (68%) 
narrow mauve
Hey
Anyone interested in watching me try to grind out a 41 on twitch ?
i gotta record incase i get it anyway
trim sigil
Would try, although on mobile twitch is wack 
trim sigil
inb4 wins
hallow stream
I don't know how much heat being blindfolded is worth, but we're setting up to do a blindfolded run soon
mossy zinc
It's silly how amazing Beowulf DPS is with Charged Flight and how bad DPS is without it lol.
At least if you only have 1 cast. Maybe with 3 it's better, no idea.
Same problem with Guan Yu and Charged Skewer.
trim sigil
rip, it's still worth if you actually get the run tho
narrow mauve
PATROCLUS
sharp cobalt
I shouldn't have done it, but I wanted to.
pattie is the best
narrow mauve
3 DD going into heroes
TD 2, big oof
one DD going into styx :<
i think this run dies in styx
mossy zinc
Save your money for Kisses of Styx or Lady Athena boons if you already have a tier 1 from her.
narrow mauve
π¦
rip run
Still really pleased to have made it to second tunnel styx
on 41
It's getting there, i can do it
autumn sable
Itβs odd that they knew to adjust charged skewer on GY but kept charged flight on Beowulf. Just an observation
mossy zinc
My problem is more that the other hammers are so much weaker.
autumn sable
Sounds exactly like what people said about SF
tidal flame
The world needs an SF once in a while, y'know
Did I stutter?
mossy zinc
No, I'm not saying Charged Flight should remain the way it is.
Well.
I've posted feedback about that.
frail crane
SF?
mossy zinc
Spread Fire.
frail crane
Ah, right
trim sigil
one time i took SF i got killed because of being unused to it 
Question: is zeus legendary too hard to get on high heat or too weak against beefy foes?
(or both ig)
mossy zinc
Legendaries are too difficult to get.
I mean, you might get lucky, but it's not a reliable strategy.
trim sigil
Figured
Just thought that may be the step to get over DC2, but apparently too much rng
tidal flame
Legendaries are hard because you can't forced them reliably. Sometime all you have is the single boon that you forced.
trim sigil
That's also true, yeah
guess that's why unhealthy fixation was mildly made fun of on my run 
mossy zinc
I had 4 boons at Hades.
I don't think horheristo or Haelian had a lot more.
You actually want to avoid a lot of boons in your run because you don't want to risk being forced to exchange your core boon.
You find like a couple things and just bet on that.
trim sigil
Sounds like AP2 exclusive issue tbh
mossy zinc
Also, the more boons you have, the less likely you'll be to hit your primary boon with poms.
autumn sable
I know, I wasnβt saying anything you said was wrong, the other rail hammers are also still fairly weak
trim sigil
(which doesn't make it less relevant there, since AP2 is pretty decent source of heat still)
Ah well. The search continues...
mossy zinc
Even without AP2, trials are hard, AP1 reduces your options, CF2 makes everything more expensive, and you want to be very selective with your rerolls.
trim sigil
Speaking of rerolls, I still only have 2 fated authorities at disposal. 0 persuasions
mossy zinc
I'd take 1 Persuasion over 2 Authority rerolls.
If you don't have rerolls really, you might as well pick RI1 for 2 heat.
trim sigil
(i did actually, heh)
The joy of playing game blindly and assuming with authorities I'd be able to reroll gemstones into core boons
Does the type of reroll change even with RI btw?
mossy zinc
Yeah, you can switch to Persuasion before that.
You can't reroll Gemstones into boons.
trim sigil
Ah, makes sense
And yeah I did figure that out by wiki later
A mild bummer but balance-wise it makes sense as well
Would probably switch after being done with farming streaks
sharp cobalt
There's a mirror of night upgrade that lets you more reliably get poms and other permanent upgrades.
mossy zinc
It's not very strong, and Routine Inspection disables that anyway.
sharp cobalt
Yeah. It's not something that'll last for the highest levels of heat, but at lower levels it can work.
mossy zinc
You don't really want to give up rare+ and epic+ for that, though.
sharp cobalt
Yup.
Though I'm using Legendary and Duo+ right now.
Mostly because it really helps me fill in the ones I've never seen yet.
mossy zinc
Yeah, they're not bad, and they let you try different combos more reliably.
And I think at 32 you still have a lot more freedom to try whatever you want.
bronze viper
recorded my first 41, with Rama :D. posted in #h1-victory-boasting. Somehow my least blessed run on this seed was the one that was successful
trim sigil
Vid being processed, sad
mossy zinc
Should post the video in #self-promotion instead, though.
sharp cobalt
I respect all of you up at the front lines, showing Dad that his pact of punishment can't stop you. I'm just not good enough for these 40+ heat runs yet. π
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
mossy zinc
That build looks really good, though.
bronze viper
Lol, when the video comes up you can see for yourself. I do not feel like I played that well. I think I missed 3 or 4 gold urns, forgot to reset my SD health in Asphodel probably 50% of the time, and burned my Acorn against Asterius in probably the first 15 seconds.
Yeah, build was fine. I never got the duo but it's not strictly speaking necessary (it would be on TD2)
mossy zinc
I miss gold urns all the time.
Well. It's not like you get a lot of Duo Boons on 40+.
trim sigil
Truth is, the less resources you get in process, the harder you make it for yourself... and therefore demonstrate more skill
So, while looking rather dum, it's actually a big advantage in long-term
bronze viper
Lol, I usually got Low Tolerance, epic Heartbreak Strike, and 2 damage hammers in my other attempts
i was also mildly salty the last blood pool forced me to choose between Divine Dash and epic Postiive Outlook
severe compass
Who needs high dps when you can just apply poison and outlive then with your giga Chad 355hp + DD
bronze viper
Yeeep. I'm pretty sure that's why I won. Because I got hit a lot
severe compass
Doesn't matter if you have more hp than the final boss
Jokes aside. Well done bro! Good run!
bronze viper
Thanks :D. Trying for 47 shield later today. Same build (dio + aphro attack, or doom attack I guess, depending on what RNGsus grants me)
honest kernel
Ares Attack, Aphro Dash.
bronze viper
Eh, I really hate dashing to spread weak. I still have 2 dashes in this pact setup though
mossy zinc
i was also mildly salty the last blood pool forced me to choose between Divine Dash and epic Postiive Outlook
I don't even bother getting much more than 3-4 boons anymore. That way I always know which ones I'm selling, and I can go for Centaur Hearts and Poms to buff the 2-3 boons I really need instead.
But, well, it depends. Some builds just need a lot more boons to make them work. But I try to have builds that don't.
So, like, Attack or Special, one boon from Lord Hermes that I really care for if I get one, hopefully Divine Dash, and ideally a Call.
But the Call is usually the most replaceable out of that.
bronze viper
Yeah I agree, though I was definitely boon flooded this time. To be fair, Positive Outlook when you already have weak, sturdy, and abyssal blood is a bit redundant. It barely does anything
mossy zinc
Although Calls are not considered priority boons, so it's a bit harder to get one than any other core boons.
But if your damage is solid, that's fine. You don't need one.
fallow stream
Positive outlook is straight useless for anyone using SD
Would be nice if it would just Regen a set percentage of HP if you are under 60%, similar to hydralite
Or add to SD Regen capabilities like last stand does
trim sigil
Wait what?
With SD your health pool almost always stands in the threshold of reducing damage
frail crane
Don't you mean After Party?
trim sigil
Even after party is useful there (aside from when you have LC and threshold drops to practically nothing)
mossy zinc
Lol I expect in a month there's gonna be quite a bit more 50+ clears from people.
Now that we've shown it's doable and people see strategies that work.
honest kernel
beo time
tidal flame
dew it
mossy zinc
I hope there'll be some variety.
Malphon is probably gonna be up there next.
And whatever horheristo has in mind.
fallow stream
Yes I meant after party
honest kernel
I did what like 3 runs until I got 41 with beo now
damn charged flight sure does some dmg
I recorded it but forgot to put on the game its just a black screen with sound oh nooo π
honest kernel
yeah its in victory boasting
tidal flame
Gj!
zinc scarab
Just have to do 53 heat with fists now!
narrow mauve
And yup, nyaa
Its like for speedruns, categories need people to get the ball rolling and encourage
I almost cleared 41 when i used to think high heat wasn't gonna be for me. And i actually enjoy it a lot.
trim sigil
Once done with 10 win streak I'd try something really, really nasty
It will involve not having TD and high heat
Practically 1 hour run, too
honest kernel
so my rama run
I think I had one 1h run at 40
not the best idea
ur too exhausted when you reach hades
ornate jacinth
is an endless mode planned?
trim sigil
You almost got me there tbh
Except no rama because haven't unlocked one yet 
And well, fatigue is fair argument there
Don't think it can be much worse than doing a dozen of attempts back to back tho
narrow mauve
You probably have less weight on your shoulders on a dozen attempts
you lose 15 mins, not two hours
honest kernel
I mean the issue is that slow runs just take as many attempts at getting to hades
as like fast builds
trim sigil
I'd probably disagree a bit as fast runs are often discarded as being deemed too weak to handle the timer
honest kernel
in my experience at least
trim sigil
Of course weak slow runs are just making issue worse, but they have at least some comeback chance
narrow mauve
That's a good point, actually
honest kernel
timer usually kills in elysium and uh I also die with slow bow stuff in elysium usually
honest kernel
but I guess thats fair
I think not being able to kill hades quick is the worst thing
narrow mauve
comparatively speaking, doing hades hitless is "easy", if it lasts a minute
honest kernel
he felt so free with beo at 41 but with rama at 40 damn π₯Ά
trim sigil
That's because shields 
trim sigil
Imagine excalibur
But ranged and more damage
That's how i see it at least
Also tbh time to watch 52 run fully, maybe find smth for myself
honest kernel
healian just almost did 53 with chaos shield but died to 4sack
trim sigil
4sack 
royal wagon
It was pretty upsetting to watch
trim sigil
(guess i should be grateful all 3 high heat runs that made it to styx for me were 2sack)
honest kernel
heh
honest kernel
yeah
honest kernel
I guess you could call beo a...one hit wonder
trim sigil
Exactly
narrow mauve
won't get fooled again starts playing
Also man i want my name on that high heat list. Soon.
trim sigil
soon indeed. You can do it!
narrow mauve
i got a run really close today
so really hype to put in attempts for it
(i know i've mentioned it three or four times already, i'm hype, sue me)
honest kernel
I wanna do 40 slow rama again but grinding that run for a week left me to drained of this
think I'll just do fast stuff for now
wraith imp
the sneak on max forced overtime is tougher than hades, wtf
@honest kernel i got around to watching your rama run. i picked up a few things - for instance, using sharanga means having to rotate around rooms. i was relying too much on attack and standing still while trying to do powershot. also something minor but cool happened in you battle with the hydra - one of the arrows hit a purple heat and bounced off. i hadn't seen that before in a run.
bronze viper
Lol, I think I finally found the heat past where Chaos aspect can carry me. Tried 45-47 for a while and it just doesn't feel very good. The damage is bad and the shield feels unnecessary most of the time. Or actively detrimental if I'm diving into packs.
Having a lot easier time with Rama at 45
daring hedge
i guess the next logical step from 42 hades aspect is to bring it to 50
tidal flame
look who is typing
daring hedge
obviously
tidal flame
where have you been o.O
daring hedge
just busy with other things lol
and now i'm seeing heat being pushed more and more people doing 40+
wild
daring hedge
speedruns are fun too! i haven't gone back to that since i got sub 12 on all weapons
severe compass
Fox. That brings a tear to my eye. You are a true supporter aren't you?
tidal flame
I mean it's still at the bottom of D tier
severe compass
:(
tidal flame
I am more into the schadenfreude of people trying to run it xD
so we are on the same boat, just not the same destination
severe compass
The reason matters not. The cause is what's important
trim sigil
Zag sword 40? Hmm
HMMMM
I swear to god this would be harder than 50+ with anything available
twin mist
so i've been watching nyaanyaa's 52 heat run https://youtu.be/d4VGZ5NXbkM?t=1554 and wondering why she would pick poms over hammers (twice: at 23:11 and at 24:25)
there's several hammer upgrades i feel like would have meshed very well with her special-based playstyle.
is it just the risk that approval process will force you to pick a bad upgrade?
trim sigil
Would bet so
twin mist
also, um, wat
https://imgur.com/a/x1mshlD
the vases do so much damage that HS makes them deal over 153??
wow, what a finish: 4hp
tidal flame
fwiw obviously Nyaa learned to end the run with 4HP from me
so I will take credit for that tyvm
honest charm
High heat strategies compendium:
(1) enter Erebus early, fail
(1b) enter Erebus in Elysium and fail
(2) whiff your summons
(3) step on magma
(3b) step on magma for SD when you have no SD
(4) dash into 150 damage urn to avoid 20 damage skull shockwave
(5) buy healing items with LC4
(6) walk into every spin
(7) walk back into Lernie head slam after dashing out of it
(8) use summon to destroy DC hearts
(9) find Patroclus when you have 3 DDs,
(9b) never find Patroclus when you have no DDs
(10) skip forced boon in Asphodel, never see another
(11) mash dash
(12) dash into traps while trying to avoid enemies
(12b) dash into traps to cure poison
(13) accidently use summon when meant to use god call
(14) exit rooms just to last second catch a glimpse of something you missed
(14b) for instance, fishing spots in Chaos
(15) have AP deny you a potentially run-defining duo several times
You're welcome
zinc scarab
I do 8 far far too much on champs
trim sigil
I suppose it's actually beo making you take 10% extra dmg that made vases do 153
oh, that was already said, my bad
trim sigil
Only 5 minutes to waste indeed
(and also there aren't as smol quick enemies anywhere else)
Either way I guess my plan goes to waste, time to practice zag blade
twin mist
i mean flamewheels are pretty dangerous
probably my least favorite enemy in the game
feels like whatever i do, i always get hit by a good amount of them if i'm not running a weapon/build where i can keep my distance superhumanly well
daring hedge
a key trick to handling flame wheels while running a close-range weapon is to basically keep yourself right next to a wall or a gap, where you continually aggro them and bait them into exploding on said wall/gap
twin mist
hm, i'll try to apply that next time
i have almost 20 clears iirc, but still things often get hectic, i kinda lose control and just press buttons and click around by feel, hoping what feels right actually results in useful output lol
daring hedge
ah, yeah, flame wheels require more a methodical approach with close-range
twin mist
charging bull rush can't even block them, can it?
daring hedge
and dashing across the gap or through the short wall is useful in a twofold sense, because the flame wheel will typically explode and you'll be out of harm's way for a moment while you repeat this for any remaining
it can iirc
twin mist
i feel like i've been hit by them before while blocking, but they may have snuck around to my side or something
daring hedge
and any deflect boons can nullify the explosions like with divine strike
twin mist
the shield is my best weapon so far; it kinda forces me into a more methodical playstyle where i time my bull rushes well and learn how the enemies behave
daring hedge
it's a great weapon for learning enemy behavior, absolutely
mossy zinc
@twin mist which hammer upgrades do you think would have helped?
twin mist
i guess dread flight would have been kinda risky, since it could make the special take longer
explosive return is nothing but an upgrade, although i suppose not a super significant one (unless that's upgraded by the special boon?)
empowering flight wouldn't have made much of a difference, since you didn't attack much
dashing flight would probably have been nice, especially with greatest reflex
i'm not sure how ferocious guard stacks, so 20% might be insignificant, but it seems nice too
although i mostly just generally don't care much about poms, which is probably not helpful. they just feel so insignificant and boring compared to boons or upgrades
mossy zinc
The only fight where I actually really use block is Hades. So Ferocious Guard wouldn't have done much at all.
Explosive Return would have been nice. I've never noticed Dashing Flight really changing anything meaningfully.
Dread Flight would have been really bad probably.
So that's 12 hammers, 1 of them that's probably actively bad, 1 of them that would have helped a bit.
And the others wouldn't have mattered really.
Actually, Charged Shot would have been bad because it doesn't let me Bull Rush through spin attacks from Hades.
The poms had a 50-50 chance to hit either Heartbreak Flourish or Tidal Dash. And those two were doing all the work.
And poms are definitely worth it until around Lv.5, and even beyond that, they still help.
wraith imp
i just had a strange experience in the hades fight.
In phase 2, hades went to do lasers and i was not near pillars. I had 3/4 of my aphrodite call. i was saving up for her 2500 max hit. but i kinda panicked and did normal call. it cancelled out hades lasers (like he stopped doing laser animation). about 3-4 seconds later, he went to do laser attack again and i used another simple aphrodite call and once again it stopped the entire animation.
has anyone else experienced this? is this a known glitch? did i just encounter something weird but helpful?
ancillary info: i was messing around using excalibur on 24 heat.
wraith imp
Oh? So aphro's charm cancels a major boss move?
mossy zinc
Any attack.
clever otter
its pretty ridiculous when you have the legendary on a weapon with a fast attack
wraith imp
Well, damn. I did not know that. I'm very surprised. I'm even more convinced than ever before that aphro might be the best boon for excalibur.
@clever otter
Now that you mention it...oh my...rama might be perfect for aphro
What weapon combo(s) did you have in mind?
I gotta think that fists might be incredible for aphro's legendary + status curse
clever otter
i only ever tried aphrodite on attack and dionysus on special with rama, which doesnt work. the special could work for it 
fists or spear with flurry jab and attack speed from hermes also works with the legendary
wraith imp
now i'm wondering if aphro's legendary might not be the optimized path for chaos shield
mossy zinc
Legendaries are a non-factor at high heats.
wraith imp
Yeah, I can see why.
But perhaps I'm wrong...I also think it kinda depends on how high heat is defined. ~32 range? Can be doable.
On 40+, not a good bet.
mossy zinc
Either way, builds that rely on a legendary aren't reliable.
wraith imp
Yeah, absolutely agree on that. Too much has to go right.
next stratus
I feel like I'm not understanding something basic about the Charon fight. He destroys me every time.
honest kernel
@wraith imp glad you could take something away from that π
honest kernel
I tried with artemis attack dio special and ares attack dio special
ares was pretty good I got to hades
if you get curse of nausea thats great
wraith imp
yeah, saw a steam by someone that did curse of nausea. it was broken and sgg quickly nerfed it.
still effective but broken version had 50+ heat potential
honest kernel
I did a run with doom special but it kinda sucked and ares didnt want to give me dire misfortune
wraith imp
i continue to sour on ares the more i play with him on high heat (32+)
tidal flame
build ideas for chaos shield?
honest kernel
tried zeus special and I felt like I was lacking dps compared to dio even though I had heroic flourish
someone just finished 41 with aphro/dio on rama so
tidal flame
yet another 41 finish?
honest kernel
not mine
also I always just slapped zeus on chaos even when I was a unknowing beginner
sometimes I try with doom special
tidal flame
yeah zeus on chaos shield seems to be the most popular, I am wondering if there are others that are equally strong
wraith imp
posiedon (with aphro and zeus) their duo boons are awesome, sweet nectar and sea storm are spectacular duo boons
i get them with regularity so they're viable
tidal flame
knowing my luck ill probably see sweet nectar in styx
wraith imp
lulz
mossy zinc
@honest kernel congratulations on 41! π
I'll update the leaderboard right now.
HIGH HEAT WOMEN'S LEADERBOARD
- @mossy zinc - 52
- @honest kernel - 41
mossy zinc
tidal flame
honest kernel
thanks! π
mossy zinc
Single-dash Lucifer is terrible. I want my Titan Blood back. 
sharp cobalt
That leaderboard is tempting to try to go for... But I don't know if I have it in me.
I'll keep climbing and see I guess.
static plover
yep, keep climbing you'll get there 
sharp cobalt
I'm up to 7 on all my weapons, with a barely any losses! I just need to believe.
static plover
ayy niceu 
acoustic hare
tfw you have started a fresh save, done 1 Heat for each weapon and then just jumped to 32 on Guan Yu. 
sharp cobalt
o-o
acoustic hare
But tbf, I had a Hell Mode save from Long Winter Update where I was climbing up gradually as I was not sure if running on high Heat will block me from doing low Heat runs (raising Heat was mandatory back then).
sharp cobalt
Isn't it still mandatory to raise the heat each time in hell mode?
static plover
nah, that changed with the blood price update
mossy zinc
Found out today if you hit the Wretched Sneak with Doom just as he becomes visible again, the Doom damage will proc before he disappears again. That works with FO2.
trim sigil
It's for stab attack or both?
mossy zinc
Both.
severe compass
:)
bronze viper
Are you trying to actually use the sword or are you doing bad merciful end?
trim sigil
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/546306951210860585/735141899886788629/Capture.PNG
Can't use TD because basic dps won't get me anywhere in elysium
Can't use big JS because overwhelmed by enemies. Same for CP and DC
RI2 kills PS and early game, but currently using it anyway
AP2 is death
Everything else is mandatory ig
Also just blade. Maybe ME would have been a saving grace, but can't even get out of Tartarus yet
bronze viper
Why not move the last CP to HL
trim sigil
π€·ββοΈ
HL for some reason kills my playstyle
Altho it's fair to just go full in ig
bronze viper
Just saying, CP is a nightmare for low damage attack based weapons
Also... if you can't get out of Tartarus you may want to turn TD1 on to make it easier to fail to timer in Elysium
So you can at least see progress
bronze viper
shrug you do you, but you could offset the timer with points from CP and JS, or DC
trim sigil
Maybe. It's only 2 points for huge oppression but maybe it's worth at the end of the day
eugh
Doesn't help that aside from double edge sword doesn't have strong hammers
op* hammers
bronze viper
But you only have one dash, right? At that point I'd assume it'd be easier to use Flurry with Support Fire or something
bronze viper
Oh, whoops, yeah
Not that I'm advocating for Flurry Slash in FO2, but lol, just spitballing options
trim sigil
Flurry slash is pretty cool compared to other hammers at least
bronze viper
Breaching Slash is my favorite (other than Greater Consecration) on Excalibur
trim sigil
Breaching Slash is bae, getting rid of BP2 quick is the jam
Sadly doesn't help on bosses and regulars
bronze viper
Yeah, given you have 2 dashes I think gimp Nemesis is probably the best option
At least you don't have to sue your special?
Whee
trim sigil
Well, using zag is the actual requirement there
lel
Nemesis is what I did the 40 run with already
trim sigil
π€·ββοΈ
At this point simping after zeus leggie doesn't sound like the worst idea
(well nvm it does, just like with all leggies)
Time for rush delivery, 25% bonus damage poggers
Anyway, time to bash the wall a bit more with new pact list
severe compass
Lmao
sharp cobalt
What's your keepsake?
You could use Shackle to shore up your DPS until you get something good.
mossy zinc
Alternatively, go for Chaos Gates. You're just not gonna be doing enough damage, otherwise
tidal flame
Be me
Go for Chaos gate to keep time
Pick +60% enemies curse
TFW
trim sigil
ME more like MEh
mossy zinc
?
trim sigil
Everyone knows it would win regardless of weapon choice
well, granted the wielder doesn't suck badly
Also yeah I put up TD1 now
Reached to hydra recently
mossy zinc
You need more than not suck to beat 40+ lol.
trim sigil
That's also true, i just tend to undermine accomplishments a lot (mostly mine)
mossy zinc
I don't see why you wouldn't go for the best build you can think of, though.
trim sigil
π€·ββοΈ
I guess I would try
Sadly since it's a duo it won't be intact before asphodel end
But worth it probably
mossy zinc
Curse of Agony is strong either way.
trim sigil
Curse of Agony - > Divine Dash - > Merciful End, right?
trim sigil
Aighty
Time to naturally level up blood vial
For both alts or only boon rewards?
Epic Agony vs more chances for ME
trim sigil
Ah, that's also fair, though I have like 2 persuades at best
Better than 0 ig
tbh I could have just cheat engine to get 50k darkness and stuff
bronze viper
huh. well for ultra super high heat, the persuasions don't matter, but for normal super high heat, having 3 makes an enormous difference. 4 obv also good. Probably should get on that π
mossy zinc
We're a TCG now.
narrow mauve
i've been summoned by the forbidden words
narrow mauve
32+, 40+ ?
but i mean there's not enough of us to warrant other channels, i suppose
mossy zinc
A 50+ channel would be great. For me and Haelian and horheristo.
trim sigil
Hardcore gamers' humble corner, heh
bronze viper
Nah, I think 20-32, 32-40, 41-48, 49+?
tidal flame
I mea. Did you see this channel compendium?
mossy zinc
50+ channel could just be #hades-normal-heat-strategies.
bronze viper
mmm... those brackets are wrong, idk i'll think about it. There's a serious spike in difficulty when you no longer have access to all of your boons/mirror
it's higher than 41...
mossy zinc
Then the others could be, like, #hades-low-heat-strategies, #hades-lower-heat-strategies, #hades-dog-heat-strategies, etc.
bronze viper
lol, I think this one channel is fine, but for specifically referring to "high heat", it's super vague as to what that means
tidal flame
Well it's officially defined as any heat that you are struggling with
Usually though the base line here is 32+
limpid kestrel
I activated and then deactivated god mode to see what it did.
as a result, I lost all my records!! π¦
trim sigil
Given the fact of heat itself is pretty high difficulty, no idea tbh
Builds-and-combat for anything low, but how low would it be? 16? 32?
bronze viper
D:
trim sigil
That sounds terrible
sharp cobalt
I just like talking with you experienced people even though I'm still on 7 heat π
tidal flame
I say 50% people asking for 32 clear, 50% of people doing 40+
You are welcomed here :D
mossy zinc
It's funny how my perception changed from "omg 32 heat is so hard how do I even do this I need like the perfect boons and everything" to "it's just 32 heat lol anything can work" to "eh it's just 40 heat, I guess anything can work."
bronze viper
Lol yeah
tidal flame
This channel can get really silly sometimes
sharp cobalt
Maybe one day you'll feel that way about Max heat.
mossy zinc
In a month, it'll be "oh if you're only trying 50 heat, anything can work really."
bronze viper
I think to 32, it's a function of "how to best use game mechanics to overcome gaps in player skill."
Past 40 it's "how do I best use game mechanics to make success possible"
trim sigil
Month is pretty optimistic tbh, but the motion is here
I think to 32, it's a function of "how to best use game mechanics to overcome gaps in player skill."
Past 40 it's "how do I best use game mechanics to make success possible"
So the most optimal number is 40, gotem
tidal flame
I think eventually there will be a "meta" of people doing streaks on 32 heat
And others pushing winrate on 50+
mossy zinc
Well, it took about a month from less than 5 people doing 40+ to 40 being the new 32 lol.
bronze viper
Lol, that's subjective. As @mossy zinc said, it's a moving target
No one thought early on that people would be making 40 heat meme runs
sharp cobalt
"57 heat? Oh just do anything. So long as you're not doing a challenge run."
Give it time.
trim sigil
I'd give it 6 months
tidal flame
Just do streaks on 32
trim sigil
tidal flame
That sounds fun
mossy zinc
@limpid kestrel you mean like everything in your permanent record is gone? That sounds like a bug, maybe? I've never used God Mode. Maybe you can get some help in #h1-tech-support.
tidal flame
Be the next Sinvicta or NL with your daily banter 32 heat Hades runs.
trim sigil
32 heat all weapons speedrun ngl
tidal flame
sharp cobalt
Actually I think that rotating weapon win streaks would be pretty neat?
Maybe even rotating aspect win streaks.
tidal flame
All weapon run WR is a little over 2 hours RTA
limpid kestrel
thanks nyan - someone in another channel seems to think that if I do another clear with god mode off it should restore them
trim sigil
Rotating into zag blade tho
tidal flame
Be the change you want to see in the world.
bronze viper
I know SGG will literally never do it, but it would be cool to have a save slot for a seed if you find one that would be great for some challenge/high heat later but you still want to play the game now
sharp cobalt
You can do Zag blade at the beginning of the streak.
trim sigil
Not wrong, but what if you go for 24 wins?
mossy zinc
Oh yeah, I updated my aspect tier list for high heat.
tidal flame
I mean I just alt tab and copy the sav file
sharp cobalt
If you could enter seeds somewhere, that would make racing much easier.
tidal flame
It's like 1 min, small hassle
bronze viper
Yeah but then you can't have your records in the same save file
sharp cobalt
People might enjoy that.
tidal flame
If you could enter seeds somewhere, that would make racing much easier.
Tune in to our race tournament on 7/31
limpid kestrel
saving a seed - are you talking about running with the same choices again?
stupid that you can do that with a workaround but not have it as an option.
trim sigil
Hypothetically, could you seed with using duplicated profiles?
tidal flame
Running with same first choice
mossy zinc
Well, it's not the intended way to play the game, but they don't mind if we do lol.
trim sigil
At least for 1 run at a time
tidal flame
Subsequent choices are randomized (yes they can be manipulated but that's different)
bronze viper
No, I mean literally like saving it in some item in the courtyard, to activate it later on to be able to start a (single) run with some set or hammers or boons
sharp cobalt
Alternatively, the game could just have a way for two or more people to compete against each other through steam, where they both get the same seed.
tidal flame
Would be nice
mossy zinc
I mean, it doesn't affect other players if we do it, but it's still not the intended way.
trim sigil
Tbh I'd personally prefer having a dedicated seed option than no option to seed at all
tidal flame
Right now people use the same save file
sharp cobalt
Probably a lot of coding though, and the devs are occupied with other things.
bronze viper
As it stands, you have to kill yourself a million times to get something usable in very high heat AP2 runs
mossy zinc
There's no reason to stop it working lol.
tidal flame
The folks in speedrun and other servers are working on one
limpid kestrel
I seem to always make the incorrect choices when I get good options
tidal flame
I'm excited to see what they can offer in the future
limpid kestrel
like, I will settle for my next best choice etc
bronze viper
An ez-sudoku button in the Tartarus lobby would be wonderful
mossy zinc
trim sigil
E tier 
mossy zinc
I've considered moving Guan Yu up a tier, though. But the HP handicap hits pretty hard.
tidal flame
Why is Hera and Chiron E tier?
trim sigil
No dps at all, maybe
mossy zinc
Because they need both attack and special or attack and cast.
bronze viper
Yeah, we're not at a point in the community where it's reasonable to expect to not get hit ever... and that's kind of what GY requires
It's def S tier if average player skill improves that much though
tidal flame
Eris above Luci?
sharp cobalt
Though if you're never getting hit, the advantage of Guan Yu is partially mitigated.
bronze viper
I mean for Charged Skewer only. The Spin will never work in very high heat TD2
mossy zinc
And Chiron with good boons is too stationary, still.
sharp cobalt
Is Charged skewer that amazing? Maybe I've been neglecting it.
tidal flame
GY can heal through LC4 also
bronze viper
As a utility, yeah, but relying on the spin for damage is EXTREMELY slow
tidal flame
Yeah charged skewer is really good on GY
trim sigil
Healing is still there to clean up chip damage, so it can be helpful to carry DDs instead of SDs for example
tidal flame
Especially with Deadly Flourish
sharp cobalt
I'll give it another shot. I've got another spear run on my rotation soon.
mossy zinc
Lucifer charge-up speed is really bad, and you can't hold attack while dashing all the time because you need to i-frame a lot with just one dash, so you're resetting the ramp-up all the time.
limpid kestrel
I miss the old days when you could chain spear spin π
sharp cobalt
Also, mildly related. Divine Flourish with Lucifer is really funny.
Creating a little deflection zone.
bronze viper
Is it permanent deflection or pulses?
sharp cobalt
It looked permanent the one time I had it.
I should test it more thoroughly. It's almost a shame that it explodes when you shoot.
limpid kestrel
I can't find my groove with lucifer - having to stand still to ramp the damage puts you at too high of a risk
acoustic hare
Is Charged skewer that amazing? Maybe I've been neglecting it.
Yes, it is that amazing. Since it doesn't return to you and due to increased base damage it is a beast.
bronze viper
It's mostly the awkward special mechanics and the CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK of the reload animation if you hold fire that stop me from using it more often
limpid kestrel
maybe if it had a larger magazine? you run out of ammo before it can ramp to anything impressive
tidal flame
A build that x9 your damage on a high base damage weapon is good.
mossy zinc
Haelian did 45 with Lucifer, so it's certainly not bad at all. It's just when you have to add RI3 that it's having issues with just one dash.
bronze viper
All I'm asking is the same reload mechnics of the other Rail aspects, where Dash triggers it
mossy zinc
I dunno, that seems like a player skill issue. Just press reload when you need to reload.
limpid kestrel
you need to start your reload before you dash as far as I can figure
sharp cobalt
If you dash on empty it auto reloads? I think.
bronze viper
When you run out on other Aspects magazine, you can dash and it will start the reload animation
limpid kestrel
hmm
sharp cobalt
I've just played with Hestia enough that reloading isn't too big of a deal for me.
But it probably would save time.
I'm guessing the ability to keep on firing while dashing is why that doesn't work.
mossy zinc
There are other rail aspects than Hestia?
tidal flame
Wait, actually?
bronze viper
@mossy zinc Just because you can player skill through something doesn't mean it adds that much player skill for it to exist. It's a QoL thing
sharp cobalt
Eris isn't bad ;-;
limpid kestrel
hestia is the high power first shot, right?
limpid kestrel
oh
sharp cobalt
And Zagreus is fun. Probably not the best, but it's fun. Lots of pew.
tidal flame
Oh no
tidal flame
Hestia is the empowered rail
sharp cobalt
To be fair, it does play more like a real rail gun.
mossy zinc
Hestia is bow
That's not true. Hestia is good.
tidal flame
Hestia ks bow is a joke
trim sigil
Zag rail and the hammer for faster +6ammo
limpid kestrel
o
tidal flame
You use Hestia like a bow
limpid kestrel
oic
bronze viper
You use bow like a late game Titan Blood sink
trim sigil
Turns into M4A4 at this point
tidal flame
Yeah the order of the texts made it confusing haha
limpid kestrel
I swear the difficulty of hades has been upped in the last couple of months
bronze viper
I have no issues with Bow from a design standpoint. It's my favorite weapon (minus Hera aspect after the Stygian cast nerfs), but it's just bad lol
limpid kestrel
he has more range on his spin
tidal flame
Ah yes the Doom advice, shoot things until they die
sharp cobalt
Is the main issue with bow that it's kinda slow?
tidal flame
Yeah it is
bronze viper
No damage
mossy zinc
Hm? Blood Price is easier than Nighty Night.
tidal flame
Dash strike does 40
mossy zinc
Oh, you mean Hades specifically.
bronze viper
The risk/reward ratio is jacked. And it doesn't even have that good of a range
to compensate
limpid kestrel
yes hades specifically
mossy zinc
No, he's not harder. Range of his spin hasn't changed really.
limpid kestrel
'really' ?
I'm having a LOT more difficulty than I was having a few patches ago
(took a break for a couple months)
trim sigil
Bow is too slow for damage lower than you'd expected
Range is nice at certain points but you are bound to get into obscured chambers which negate the whole gimmick
mossy zinc
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
bronze viper
But probably the thing holding back bow the most is that it has the best Hammers, by a lot, but to compensate it has no base damage
Which means you have to rely on an unreliable mechanic to be feel as good as the other aspects
tidal flame
Charged Flight goes brrrrr
mossy zinc
I'd be a lot worse in the fight if I took a break for a couple months.
tidal flame
It's so funny that bow is the least representative of the bow playstyle
limpid kestrel
actually now that I'm thinking about it the biggest changes I've seen are to the pact of punishment
tidal flame
Both Hestia and Charged Flight Beowulf are better bows rn
limpid kestrel
you used to be able to get high heat without harsh risk pretty easily
bronze viper
Charged Skewer too
limpid kestrel
but it's been tweaked for all the options to be actually painful
mossy zinc
That could be.
sharp cobalt
To be fair, that is a good thing.
mossy zinc
Some people have said that the game felt faster for them in Blood Price, which seems to be mainly related to performance improvements on their end. So that could also be a thing affecting you, perhaps.
sharp cobalt
As much as my soul hurts every time I trip over a saw blade and lose 100 health, it's good that I'm being punished.
limpid kestrel
nah performance hasn't changed for me
I suppose I've seen a subtle improvement on dynodash
mossy zinc
Traps can generally be handled with good strategy for the room you're in. But that requires a lot of experience and practice with all the different layouts.
limpid kestrel
but I pretty much have solid 60
sharp cobalt
I've been getting a lot better about traps.
Mostly because the pact has induced a real fear of them into my soul.
limpid kestrel
some of the styx rooms are pretty cruel
tidal flame
I love being one shotted by traps
limpid kestrel
more to do with the combination of trap + enemy lineup with stupid levels of HP
sharp cobalt
The Styx traps are kind of brilliantly evil. Not the sawblades, but the big dropping axes.
They drop down exactly where you're going to want to dash after slapping the button.
limpid kestrel
having to dash around to avoid satyr poison
sharp cobalt
And can also be weaponized for your own benefit.
limpid kestrel
extremely annoying getting nabbed by those dropping blades
mossy zinc
You can back up rooms you have trouble with and practice them.
limpid kestrel
satyr poison might legitimately be the worst thing in the game
either that or long range cluster bombs when you are already hemmed in
mossy zinc
I like the Temple of Styx. It's properly challenging.
bronze viper
The poison is whatever, I hate the projectiles themselves. I'm much better about it now than I used to be but they're basically hitscan in FO2
tidal flame
Except for the 0 animation rats
limpid kestrel
I used to have more fun with it before they put in so many anti0fun mechanics
tidal flame
Well I have the bliss of ignorance
I haven't seen the early Hades days so the game seems ok to me
limpid kestrel
ah I see
well it used to be breezy
then the devs went: PLAYERS HAVING FUN WE CANT HAVE THAT
and they have progressively introduced crueller and crueller mechanics
mossy zinc
It was easy-breezy for me.
limpid kestrel
it was
tidal flame
I came in with the idea that it's a roguelite
limpid kestrel
you used to be able to clear styx rooms in seconds
sharp cobalt
The only thing I'd like the temple of Styx to change is the rng of where the sack is.
Not sure how it could be adjusted.
limpid kestrel
honestly was a little too easy
sharp cobalt
But it's a very minor thing.
bronze viper
Lol, why do Greatshields have such a good projectile
limpid kestrel
however they went full the other direction
mossy zinc
You can still clear the mini-chambers in seconds.
tidal flame
There are mods that fixes sack RNG
limpid kestrel
mostly yes
bronze viper
At least Greatbows write you a long politely worded letter before wrecking you
tidal flame
Lol
limpid kestrel
but you still get annoying things like mini-rodent
just no way to kill fast
too much HP
finite valve
it's stupid yeah
gentle dagger
GREETINGS
mossy zinc
It only has 12k HP, though.
gentle dagger
NYAANYAA you are a goddess among video gaming software
bronze viper
It would be less egregious if it didn't contribute so hard with TD2 RNG in Styx
gentle dagger
52 heat is INSANE well done
mossy zinc
Thank you lol.
limpid kestrel
im guessing you don't have the timer restrictions selected, nyan
bronze viper
I think the fight is over-blown in difficulty though. It's really not that bad
mossy zinc
Of course, I am indeed a goddess.
O~hohohohoho!
No, I have TD2 on 50+. I have practically everything on.
limpid kestrel
TD2?
mossy zinc
Tight Deadline at 2.
limpid kestrel
this god damn proxy
finite valve
She also has MF on now
limpid kestrel
ok, so this is why you need to be able to repeat the same seed that has all the good stuff
gentle dagger
aerith
limpid kestrel
or at least, that you have knowledge of what will be coming up
tidal flame
Seed only guarantees the first boon
sharp cobalt
What don't you have on in 52+ Besides the last few Routine Inspection?
mossy zinc
I didn't have any knowledge of what's coming up.
tidal flame
You don't know what will come up next
limpid kestrel
there's just not enough time to get through that with every option up..
mossy zinc
I spent about 2 hours looking for the Charged Flight hammer in room 1, but I cleared the seed first try.
limpid kestrel
ah
limpid kestrel
because like, sometimes you will get options that just don't allow you to output enough dps
sometimes you get a nice combination of boons to do mad damage
finite valve
beowulf and charged flight are broken in that aspect
mossy zinc
RNG will be RNG at 50+.
limpid kestrel
but that's so luck dependent
mossy zinc
Charged Flight solves most of that, anyway.
tidal flame
Below 32 heat you can win consistently
finite valve
you deal so much damage once you get some boon on the special
tidal flame
So you don't need seed, at all
finite valve
basically all you need is charged flight and aphro/athena on the special and you're set
the rest is just bonus stuff helping you to survive better
tidal flame
Wriste13 is doing 32 heat streaks on his Twitch channel
mossy zinc
I don't think Divine Flourish would do enough damage, to be honest.
sharp cobalt
Do you have a link of the 52 run Nyaanyaa?
mossy zinc
limpid kestrel
ok I might use beowulf some more - I haven't liked it that much so far
try charged flight
finite valve
enjoy your 225 damage naked
mossy zinc
I don't think it's very strong without Charged Flight to be honest lol.
finite valve
you can probably build around charged casts but that would be sub optimal seeing how strong charged flight is
acoustic hare
Seed only guarantees the first boon
You don't know what will come up next
That's not entirely true. From what I noticed, there's a set of different Tartarus layouts per seed. I managed to get the same layout of Aphrodite Special, Demeter Attack and Charged Skewer several times on the same seed after resetting a number of times before each one of those. All of those layouts were on the same seed as I selected "Give Up" every time.
Asphodel and Elysium, from what I can tell, are really random each time.
mossy zinc
@finite valve you only had JS1 and CP1 in your run.
tidal flame
@acoustic hare that means you subconsciously routed the run and not knowing it
finite valve
doesn't change the fast that the damage output is enough
tidal flame
There are grey areas in seeding, sure
But the definition of seeding is just to guarantee the first boon
Soft routing the run is a side effect.
acoustic hare
@tidal flame Not exactly subconsciously, as I was looking for that layout every time I was Giving Up on that seed. But later I just moved on.
finite valve
you got incredibly luck to get that aphro boon AND the dashes on your first try
aphro special is something I maybe met 2 or 3 times during my tries
tidal flame
If you look for that specifically then that routing
acoustic hare
In that case yeah, you can say I routed Tartarus on a set seed.
tidal flame
Nyaa seeded her run and cleared it first try
mossy zinc
It's not. You RNGd into Heroic and didn't have JS3 or CP2. I wasn't doing enough damage with just Heartbreak Flourish for Elysium until I picked up Tidal Dash.
I mean, without those, yeah, it's perfectly enough.
finite valve
I cleared Elysium with 50s left w/ very poor optimization on my throws and some imperfect play in some rooms, I have more than 2 minutes left when I kill Hades, I don't see how that's not enough dmg even with JS3/CP2
The number of summons has no impact whatsoever here because I overkill most of the mobs anyway
Athena boon brings a good damage increase too
tidal flame
50s of Elysium left is no where near enough for JS3 and CP2
bronze viper
JS3 doesn't jsut increase number of total mobs, it increases number of total waves
finite valve
I had sub optimal use of my shield and skelly tho
bronze viper
which can't be just overkilled through. No matter what build, you will take longer
finite valve
yeah but what I mean is
even if I have +250% damage from APhro and I play bad, I won't pass the cut either
the damage output doesn't come into play when you overkill mobs
it's how good you clear waves
I had +180% damage on my run
+400% charged flight, that's a whole lot of damage, you CAN clear 52 with that
provided you get the proper boon support on the side of course
that's nyaanyaa boon:
ahh can't screenshot
she had +193%
I had +183%
so unless she had the boon that deals more damage to weak mobs, there's almost no difference in these two boons in term of raw damage output
finite valve
it depends on what you have on the side, yes
tidal flame
No I mean damage overall for the entirety run
For example a +50% damage in Tartarus onward provides more value than a +1000% damage only at Hades fight
finite valve
π€
I have boon that adds X% damage to my special, if I have nothing else, my damage output will be fixed
From what I know about the game, if you remove all synergies from other boons, damage output wise, a +180% Athena is the same than a +180% Aphro
She had poseidon dash, I had any damage can be crit
so technically, I could have more damage output than she did on that run with the proper luck
sharp cobalt
I'm not sure what point you're trying to get at here though. Either of you ^^