also the 1up is a joke
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
It would be a joke if it wasn't true.
acoustic hare
Got Charged Skewer, Serrated Point and Winged Serpent to choose from. I'm running Aphrodite Special and Demeter Attack. Which hammer to choose?
fallow stream
Jokes are funny for the reason that there's always a sliver of truth to them
Charged skewer
Then serrated point
Then winged serpent
In terms of priority
mossy zinc
What aspect?
fallow stream
Gy
acoustic hare
Guan Yu
fallow stream
You don't get winged serpent otherwise
mossy zinc
Charged Skewer, yeah.
tidal flame
It would be a joke if it wasn't true.
@mossy zinc I mean it used to be true but I kinda give up on that xD
mossy zinc
You're just trying it with a different weapon now lol.
tidal flame
Also I am using Hestia, not fists
fallow stream
Then you only need to beat heat 1 to beat @mossy zinc ๐
acoustic hare
Ye
BOIII
Exaltation unbound.
Could it be?.. The build to help me to reach Lernie?
mossy zinc
The fun fact is this is after nerfs.
tidal flame
do you have deadly flourish also?
mossy zinc
That's more than enough, and the Weak is very nice vs bosses.
tidal flame
at 400% increase damage Deadly Flourish way outscale most other special steroids
but HBF isnt bad
acoustic hare
The fun fact is this is after nerfs.
mossy zinc
Of course it will deal more damage. But there's a point where you have enough; gotta factor in utility, too. 
tidal flame
Of course it will deal more damage. But there's a point where you have enough; gotta factor in utility, too.
You don't need utility if the enemies are dead
no it was 50 before
mossy zinc
It was 50, then 40 in the beta and back up to 45.
If mobs die in the same number of hits, it doesn't matter much. You don't get any value out of overkills.
Bosses would die faster, but you would also overall take more damage in your run.
So it's not a straightforward choice.
I really love that with Nemesis, you can just pick Heartbreak Strike for both better damage and Weak lol.
And with Hunter's Mark and Deadly Reversal, you'll be critting like 95% of the time (except vs Hades).
Maybe it's just me, but I think the nerf to the Guan Yu Aspect of the Spear is far too heavy. It was already a fairly risky aspect to use for the small benefit it provided, and now with the nerfs to both it's healing, and no longer being able to deflect consistently on the spin attack with Athena's buff, the weapon feels nearly unusable.
I thought Deflect on it was back to normal?
What nerf to healing?
How would they nerf 1 HP per hit?
@acoustic hare what heat are you running, by the way?
acoustic hare
32
mossy zinc
Oh nice.
acoustic hare
The healing here feels more powerful. Maybe more ticks, I dunno.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TZJbT1sQyA
mossy zinc
Why does Spread Fire feedback change back and forth from "please buff Spread Fire" to "please nerf Spread Fire" with every major update lol.
acoustic hare
Seems like they can't quite get it right.
meager wharf
Spread fire seems fine to me
Its not as op as it was before, but its not bad either
acoustic hare
Also, I haven't checked if lifesteal works on max Lasting Consequences now but in the vid it sure does.
mossy zinc
I guess Guan Yu players should verify how many tics it used to give vs how many tics now or how fast it procs etc.
Gotta do some research into your aspect of choice if no one else seems to do it.
acoustic hare
Vid's Description
So let's break the run down:
- Guan Yu Spear was added at the latest patch (Jan '20). It dramatically reduces your max hp, but deals more damage and giving you the life steal passive ability.
- It isn't affected by "Lasting Consequences" pact, so you can still life steal with it even at 100%.
- Breakables also provide life to steal.
- And now for the punch line - IT CAN BE UPGRADED.
- Eurydice will increase the life steal by +1 when picking "Ambrosia Delight".
- Demeter Will IMMEDIATELY increase life steal by +1 when picking the "Rare Crop" Boon, and FURTHER increase it by +1 after every 3 encounters, up to +6 per steal.
โฌ This will very likely get patched out, so if you wanna test this build, now's your chance.
** You can even survive "Tight Deadline" timeout with a high life steal upgrade, as long as you don't take other form of damage than the timeout penalty.
** ** up to +6 per steal.
mossy zinc
Oh I think that was patched like immediately when it came out lol.
acoustic hare
The vid came out in Jan 24 so it's long since been patched.
hollow lynx
is it a nerf if it was never intended to be that strong in the first place
i remember you could also steal from cerberus for a little bit before they patched it out
mossy zinc
Yeah, that video was 3 days after they added Guan Yu.
So the feedback wasn't talking about that, I don't think.
acoustic hare
Maybe they were still grouching about that.
Can't blame them.
acoustic hare
tfw you've never reached Lernie on EM before. What're the changes?
mossy zinc
Magma everywhere.
mossy zinc
There's no safe zone where the main head can't reach you, either.
hollow lynx
head detaches and does head slams around the entire arena
basically an entirely more claustrophobic experience
mossy zinc
Also no pillars to hide from projectiles (which matters less now that only 1 variant shoots them).
acoustic hare
Hmm. Alright, the stars have aligned to give me the best run seed as of yet, I can't let it go to waste.
||look at him go, going to attempt to kill his first EM hydra||
||doing his first baby steps at 32 heat||
||isn't that cute||
mossy zinc
I don't know if 32 is "baby steps" lol.
mossy zinc
Ow.
I went through that phase.
Learned to deal with them a lot better eventually.
But sometimes I still have runs like that.
acoustic hare
Thinking about picking up the Tooth right here instead of waiting for Styx.
||I probably won't reach it anyway||
mossy zinc
I don't know what you have now as far as HP, DDs, etc.
Link a screenshot?
Also screenshot what the Well of Charon offers.
tidal flame
Lost 2 DD catching some stupid head slams. Could have done better.
Better pray for Patty
mossy zinc
No need to panic. Elysium offers plenty of ways to save a run.
hollow lynx
like elite strongbows
acoustic hare
Does Extended Jab affect dash-attacks?
hollow lynx
don't think so, hammers consider attack and dash attack as distinct
mossy zinc
Well, I guess you already went ahead and picked the Lucky Tooth? Nevermind then.
acoustic hare
Well, if I lose one, can try and restore them with Patroclus or Athena.
mossy zinc
Lucky Tooth is rarely a good choice.
Chthonic Coin Purse can carry you better through Elysium most of the time. Especially if you have Persuasion. And depending on your cash etc., Acorn would still be the best for the region.
frail crane
Tooth is good imo if you're worried about dying before Patty (like you're out of DDs), though I'll note I'm playing at lower heats
acoustic hare
I haven't even picked the Acorn once so it's unupgraded at all, lol
mossy zinc
I'd take a Lv.1 Acorn for boss fights over Lv.3 Lucky Tooth.
acoustic hare
oh god oh jegus.
teleporting suicide chariots ahead.
mossy zinc
Chthonic Coin Purse can help you cap your HP and buy DDs back as well as any other buffs that help you in Elysium (e.g., Flamewheel Release, Aether Net).
acoustic hare
Is it still worth picking at CF2?
mossy zinc
Hmmm. Yeah, I would say so. But I also wouldn't run CF2 at 32 in the first place, personally.
acoustic hare
uuh, I don't feel like I have much of a choice. I can't speedrun at all so even TD1 is already too much for me.
fallow stream
Ok all... I need help identifying what I'm doing wrong in Elysium. I'm constantly timing out on great builds and I'm at wits' end. Currently trimming and uploading a video to post here (Lernie and Elysium fights only) so I can get some constructive criticism.
I was obviously not going to beat Theseus and Asterius by the time I got there, so I didn't even bother putting in much effort against them, so ignore that fight in general when the link comes up.
mossy zinc
@fallow stream do you check Wells for Lights of Ixion? That is something that can help.
fallow stream
I hardly get them in Elysium, but yes, I know taking shops and Ixion/chaos can help
mossy zinc
Also elite chambers are normally faster than regular chambers.
fallow stream
What, really?
tidal flame
what heat are you talking?
fallow stream
40
mossy zinc
Yeah, the minibosses can go down really fast. Like that Soulcatcher can die in seconds, and you're free to move on.
mossy zinc
1-2 buffed Explosive Uppers with Demeter Aspect will delete that thing. In a normal chamber, you'd be facing waves after waves of chariots, exalted, etc.
fallow stream
I'm not awesome with the sword, but I still felt I got through rooms fairly quick. Again, just looking for some tips to adjust my gameplay
mossy zinc
I'll take a look tomorrow if you upload it.
fallow stream
K
mossy zinc
Nemesis?
fallow stream
Yeah
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike?
fallow stream
Swift strike + 2 dashes with Hermes, divine strike
mossy zinc
Ah okay.
fallow stream
Was just how it played out
mossy zinc
Oh right, you run Lambent Plume for the whole run still, right?
acoustic hare
Speaking of the Soulcathcer, died to it just now.
Kept the seed, at least. I think.
mossy zinc
Or not on Nemesis?
fallow stream
I mean, it was a great build, and was hoping for flurry slash but didn't get it
I gave up on plume for 40 heat
tidal flame
Plume on 40 Heat?
mossy zinc
I see.
fallow stream
Not good enough yet, lol
acoustic hare
You have to Give Up right when you die to keep the run seed, yeah?
fallow stream
Yes
acoustic hare
So, you can keep the seed even after the killing blow?
fallow stream
You have time, as long as the screen is still black
mossy zinc
Did you have Hunter Dash?
mossy zinc
Hmm alright.
fallow stream
Could have taken world splitter, but I didn't feel like that was the right move with divine strike on attack
mossy zinc
Maybe just bad Elysium RNG, but I'll see tomorrow.
tidal flame
So, you can keep the seed even after the killing blow?
@acoustic hare correct
acoustic hare
Phew.
tidal flame
I mean dying in Elysium to TD is a normal occurrence
fallow stream
Yeah, but I literally never get through now, unless I have stubborn Roots to counter TD2
And a ton of health
mossy zinc
Yeah, some people make it more reliably through than others.
fallow stream
I regularly get to Theseus with less than 60s on the clock. This time, I actually started the fight with no time
mossy zinc
Always a good idea to see how you can improve your clear speed.
fallow stream
That's what I'm looking for. I mean, sometimes you think you're playing good and you're not, so other's opinions and feedback can really help
mossy zinc
Something I would recommend generally is watching some speedruns with your aspect of choice.
It's lower heat, but there are plenty of tricks to pick up from them.
fallow stream
Speedruns are generally low heat and don't help
I'll also post a screen of my pact option choices when I get the link up
cedar spire
I've been doing 49 heat a bit and have to literally run 0 jury summons and Calisthenics to have any chance (even then I usually hit the deadline). At 40, it wouldn't be crazy to drop a TD for something else
fallow stream
I run JS1
And no calisthenics
I'm reviewing my video, and I took all shops + Patroclus room and still timed out, so it's gotta be my clear speed
More precisely... My technique with sword
tidal flame
you dash spamming right?
mossy zinc
It's a bit of geometry. Hitting multiple enemies with every hit = good. Whiffing attacks = bad.
fallow stream
I try to ensure I don't let exalted Regen
mossy zinc
Just from hearing that, taking just a moment longer to aim your dash-strikes would speed things up because you're whiffing less.
Counterintuitive because you want to attack as fast as possible, but misses really hurt your DPS.
fallow stream
Part of the reason is I handicap many nemesis runs with flurry slash ๐คฃ
So, when I don't get it, I'm like a fish out of water
mossy zinc
Maybe then just keep trying until you RNG into Flurry Strike. ๐
fallow stream
Indeed
I had two chances to take world splitter on this run, and tried to hold out for flurry
Because I had divine strike
mossy zinc
I'd take Heartbreak Strike over Divine Strike, personally.
fallow stream
Same, but didn't have the opportunity
mossy zinc
And put about 5 poms on it if I can.
fallow stream
Got divine dash as first, and immediately offered divine strike on next
mossy zinc
Well, yeah, I wouldn't have said no to that either lol.
fallow stream
Another thought is I'm diversifying my boons too much and should just pom the ones I have and stay lean
Now that you mention it
mossy zinc
I like to get poms and nectars early on.
fallow stream
I do have to sell each biome, which is why I try to expand
mossy zinc
So I can guarantee it will hit my main source of damage.
More than 5 poms probably won't be worth it, though.
fallow stream
This video is just about done
mossy zinc
At that point, I'd just pom my call if anything at all.
fallow stream
The Lernie fight was good. Elysium was meh
mossy zinc
That reminds me I should sleep lol. Gonna watch it tomorrow. Good luck in the meantime!
fallow stream
Gnite
mossy zinc
Good night!
fallow stream
So here's my h40 pact:
And here's the trimmed video:
Keep in mind I didn't bother to Regen in the shop prior to fighting Theseus because I knew I wasn't going to win, nor did I put in much effort in the fight itself. It's not indicative of how I usually flatten them when I have time to fight proper
fallow stream
So, I kinda take back most of my criticism of snap nova.
Yes, it's awkward to get used to
Yea, it makes your next run feel weird once you grown accustomed to using it, but...
Once you know how to abuse the mechanics of it, you can dive in, dash strike twice, and snap out of trouble back to your origin point, and repeat. it's great
cyan stag
Now you're thinking with portals!
fallow stream
It also pairs extremely well with divine flourish for added protection with the snap into enemies
I still think that it causes a great deal of harm for players who don't understand it, snapping themselves into traps, especially when using HS on the pact, and it's trouble in Asphodel if you aren't extremely careful
cyan stag
I have a question about that. Is the snap distance fixed, or capped?
fallow stream
The snap distance is fixed for the launch
But returning is unlimited
As long as your sword is still in the ground
It can even be off screen
fallow stream
You have to be quick about it
tidal flame
I saw your vid. While I haven't attempted many 40 heat runs on Nemesis, I think there are a couple of gameplay stuff I see you cam improve on, take it with a grain of salt, of course.
- You don't special enough. Your crit chance uptime is not 100%. So ... special more?
- I think the third dash actually hurts you because you waste the last one and have to walk back. So dash strike more accurately? Ik it's a 4head advice but it's true.
- Against flamewheel I usually dash around the map to aggro as many as possible. This speeds up the process. I don't think you utilize this often in your runs.
That's about all I got...
fallow stream
You can even pull shenanigans like snap out of a horde, and backstab them, then snap back as they turn around and try to attack you, leaving your origin point free of danger
Thanks @tidal flame I always appreciate advice, and you're spot on about that. My timing on specials is bad, I tend to special right when I get hit, I was watching myself and facepalming
My dash strike aim is atrocious sometimes
Some games I'm awesome, other times I'm flailing
tidal flame
Samesies. It's an easy to diagnose but haed to treat kinda problem.
devout bane
It works out ok enough (for me at least) with the sword, shield, and fists to just keep flailing tbh
fallow stream
Fists can make your technique bad with other weapons. They are my favourite, but the playstyle on fists is completely different than everything else
Sword and spear are similar.
Bow and rail and shield share certain styles
Fists are fists.
honest charm
Sword and spear are similar.
what
fallow stream
In terms of the spacing and timing for attacks.
For example, with nemesis sword you special and dash attack, land a hit or two, then dash to safety or dash attack again.
With Hades spear you spin and dash attack, land an attack or two, then get to safety, or dash attack again.
And the timing/spacing for all that is similar
stable sparrow
whats a good way to try to get the skelly statues
fallow stream
Now if you focus on a special build with exploding launcher for the spear, not so much
You need to run heat 8, 16 and 32 respectively. Are you asking what options you should choose on the pact?
stable sparrow
yes
mossy zinc
Chaos Aspect is what most people have the most success with, usually. At least going by everyone's comments.
fallow stream
What's your weapon of choice @stable sparrow ?
stable sparrow
ive only gotten to the final boss with chiron aspect once
fallow stream
Maybe just practice before you go after the Skelly statues
Climb the heat ladder 1 at a time
That way it's not such a shock
stable sparrow
ive gotten the 8 one but 16 is a bit hard
honest charm
don't climb the heat ladder one at a time, pick pact options that look fun one at a time
fallow stream
I suggest 1 heat at a time solely for titan blood to upgrade weapons
honest charm
for instance, EM is fun for most people
fallow stream
Which naturally makes it easier
honest charm
BP makes elites more interesting
climbing one heat at a time doesn't actually let you get blood any faster
you get two blood per clear regardless
fallow stream
Right, but you're more likely to clear lower heats
stable sparrow
i have enough blood but which pact things would make the runs a bit "easier"
fallow stream
Easy picks:
Damage control
Convenience fee
EM1 and 2
FO1
Hard labour 1
Jury summons 1
Lasting consequences 1 or 2
TD1 as well
mossy zinc
Convenience Fee can hurt a lot.
mossy zinc
It will make boons and everything a lot more expensive, so it will make them stronger indirectly. Because you're weaker.
If your clear speed is good, Tight Deadline at 2 is essentially free heat for 8 Heat and 16 Heat.
fallow stream
The only issue I have with HL5 is the impact on final boss
mossy zinc
HL5 is hard.
fallow stream
It can break your run if you aren't good at him
honest charm
if you stunlock/kill quickly (like you do for TD), you're not getting hit much
for final boss you do need to learn his attacks for sure
but they are all very much avoidable
mossy zinc
HL5 can easily end at Lernie or even the Furies.
stable sparrow
hmm ok
fallow stream
Middle management isn't terrible either... It makes one specific miniboss very tough though
The power couple in Asphodel
The first time you fight them on MM it'll be a shock, and don't be surprised if you die
The Mega Gorgon head teleports, and the rock head slam thing has a Shockwave when it lands that will ripple the entire room, forcing you to dash to avoid it
stable sparrow
would maxing jury summons be a good idea
fallow stream
No
stable sparrow
it wouldn't have much of an impact on the bosses would it
fallow stream
I don't go higher than JS1 even in heat 40.
I used to run JS2 at most
Has no impact on bosses, but maxing it will make rooms tougher than you realize, especially if your chaos boon choice also adds extra enemies
It might affect Hades summons though.... I'm not sure
stable sparrow
i dont think it does
fallow stream
Jury summons does have an added benefit though.... More enemies = more obols
stable sparrow
could probably hope for rng kiss of styxs
fallow stream
How many DD do you usually go through against Hades?
stable sparrow
like 2
fallow stream
Because, if you use SD, you can crank Lasting consequences to 75 or 100%
And it really won't affect you
fallow stream
You just have to understand the concept behind using Stubborn defiance
Kill yourself when you are low on health to regenerate in each room
stable sparrow
would lc affect the centuar hearts
fallow stream
No
stable sparrow
oh
fallow stream
You get that health boost always
It affects any health recovery though
So, fountains, food
And dark regeneration if you have it active as a mirror talent
fallow stream
@stable sparrow one thing...
Stubborn defiance makes rooms easier, but it makes bosses tougher, because you have fewer revives for single encounters.
So, you need to get good at eliminating bosses without taking damage
mossy zinc
All things considered, this was harder to get than clearing 41 Heat was. https://imgur.com/a/Rpcllfv
Yay, Darkness. 
Done with Nemesis bounties now. ๐ฅณ
Unnecessarily lost a DD vs Asterius and another in Styx, but I just deleted ~45% of Hades's life for free with Poseidon's Aid lol.
mossy zinc
Lv.3 Epic.
fallow stream
Huh... I actually found a use for tidal dash on fists
tidal flame
Making your life harder?
fallow stream
No... It is fantastic for countering gravity well
Other than that... Yes, it makes life harder ๐คฃ
mossy zinc
You know, that's actually not a bad idea at all lol.
That's among the worst perks for Malphon.
fallow stream
It's a Terrible idea... Especially when you have to use it in Asphodel ๐คฃ
But it does make gravity well a non issue
mossy zinc
I use Tidal Dash sometimes on Talos. It's pretty good.
fallow stream
WOW! Financial services just called me and said my $1,223,479 transaction from Nigeria has been completed... I'M RICH!!
mossy zinc
I don't know. I think it's fine.
tidal flame
yeah with Malphon you are fine
mossy zinc
Haven't had any issues with Nemesis.
fallow stream
@tidal flame you can actually let it hit you, and if you dash right at the moment of impact, it will do no damage. There's a delay between the sound FX of him hitting you and the actual damage instance.
But, I just bait him to a wall regardless
fallow stream
I have pretty much lost all faith in Athena boons at this point. This happens way too often with divine strike, I can't rely on it anymore:
mossy zinc
Smoldering Air + Epic Dionysus' Aid + Epic Second Wind is very broken.
mossy zinc
It's good. Put the best call on it, and it's something else entirely.
fallow stream
Try it with Athena call
fallow stream
Before I post some feedback...
Do you all feel like there used to be a couple of iframes on dash strikes which have since been removed?
The entire dash strike has never been iframes, but I do recall there being some leniency at the beginning of dash strikes until recently, and I feel like the (perceived) change has made combat far less fluid as a result.
It's as though you flat out cancel all iframes if you dash strike, and I don't think this should be the case, you aren't striking until midway through the dash strike to begin with
tidal flame
Do you all feel like there used to be a couple of iframes on dash strikes which have since been removed?
No, and the devs have explicitly said they didn't touch I frames
fallow stream
I wonder why it feels different to me now
mossy zinc
For that clip, you need to either dash diagonally, so that you're not in their attack hitbox, or just i-frame or get out of the way. You're trying to dash-strike directly through them to deflect that attack, which just isn't going to work. It doesn't make you actually invincible, so you still get hit.
fallow stream
The first hit I wasn't dash striking at all
That should have been deflected
2nd one,sure
mossy zinc
Well, you were just too close to its hitbox for the first one.
That attack is not easy to deflect with Divine Strike.
You could do a Dash-Strike about here and deflect it. That's how wide it is. https://imgur.com/a/qE0k8iZ
Or, if you're directly to the side or somewhere behind them, that will work. It's a lot like Wretched Louts or Hades's spear thrust. You don't want to be anywhere in front of them.
fallow stream
What I'm finding with the dash strikes is you only get the benefit of deflect at the very end of the dash, once you stop and the swipe from the fist comes out
It just feels different somehow
Can't quite put my finger on it
mossy zinc
That's also true. Timing for Divine Dash and Divine Strike is different and can really throw you off if you're more used to one.
fallow stream
The funny thing is, if you have both and you dash strike, you may as well not have divine dash at all
autumn sable
You're also playing higher heat a lot more now and the stress of higher heat can really change what you might've thought worked before
also thanks @mossy zinc for pointing that 32-heat 1-hand run my way, I've been pretty busy today but finally getting to check it out. I agree that it's probably worth a mention.
mossy zinc
Yeah, any hit you take on 40+ easily matters 3-4x as much if not more.
mossy zinc
@fallow stream their attack hitbox is probably something like that red area immediately when the attack is active, then probably moves forward to that purple and blue area at the end of the attack. Probably even a bit wider than that. You can deflect it with Divine Strike if your attack hitbox touches that but your hurtbox remains outside. So ideally, you want to be to the side and perpendicular to the attack, behind it, or out of its range at the very end of its trajectory.
Well, I don't have a hitbox viewer, of course. But that's how I treat the attack.
@hallow moss congratulations! ๐
tidal flame
I don't understand any of that
mossy zinc
What do you not understand?
tidal flame
I don't know, life?
honest charm
she meant, "stand behind enemies or off to the side when you're attacking, even if you want to deflect their attacks"
tidal flame
Yeah but what is the meaning of life? I don't get that.
mossy zinc
static plover
I'm sorry Hades isn't about the meaning of life the universe and everything Fox, you'll have to read/watch the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy for that ๐
tidal flame
I am forever in love with this piece of dialogue:
"You know, [...] it's time like this that I really wish I had listened to what my mother told me when I was young."
"Why, what did she tell you?"
"I don't know, I didn't listen."
Anyway, Hades ๐
fallow stream
It's funny how heroic greatest reflex is actually not as good as it sounds ๐คฃ
This, I have just discovered
honest charm
heroic greater haste, on the other hand...
fallow stream
I had heroic greatest reflex and snap nova in Asphodel. Guess what happened?
THE FLOOR IS LAVA
tidal flame
But with Nemesis that's unlimited powerrrrr
mossy zinc
It's good because you can use 2-3 dashes for attack and know you always have some available for emergency i-frames.
If you use up all your dashes for attack, it's also good but probably less so.
tidal flame
It depends on how fast you can wiggle your joystick
fallow stream
Let's just say I got overzealous vs Lernie
tidal flame
3 dash for damage 2 dash for safety
It's so nice
I just had a Nemesis run on 16 heay only, but I crutched the dahses so hard xD
Didn't lose any DD through the entire thing
fallow stream
I actually had 7 dashes if you stop and think about it
6 from Hermes, plus the snap nova
tidal flame
I tried snap nova once
I literally give up right after
Nope
Not dealing with that
fallow stream
Im gonna post a short vid on how powerful it can be. I obliterated Alecto in 20s
tidal flame
It's good on Poseidon sure
tidal flame
I mean I doubt it would.
robust zephyr
Its hard to really stop yourself from spamming special with nemesis. I avoid snap nova simply because I need to spend time rewiring my brain to use it.
Also not even guarenteed to get it every run so its like playing with guillotine or marked from isaac. Sure good base stat increase but u need to drastically change the way you play
fallow stream
So I watched again, and I got hit a couple times, but still...
robust zephyr
still for the memes you can use it with zag aspect, plume and hermes dash movement speed boons and become the real god of speed
mossy zinc
Snap Nova is not a meme just because you can't use it.
mossy zinc
Remember the holy words.
fallow stream
mossy zinc
honest kernel
I don't mind Snap Nova at all with Nemesis, though.
mossy zinc
Yeah, I like it a lot.
robust zephyr
Well good for you i guess, i dont like having to drastically change my gameplay for one hammer that may or may not show up.
honest kernel
Unless you're using Ruthless Reflex, two Dash-Strikes into Nova is long enough to expire the return.
robust zephyr
You wont have crit active as much since it lasts only 3 sec, basically ur special no longer becomes a buff and more an escape
have to carefully use it
mossy zinc
I don't agree with that. 
robust zephyr
well i dont have any experience with it
honest kernel
Oh, okay.
hollow lynx
robust zephyr
i dont know though
mossy zinc
I use Special into dash-cancel all the time anyway.
robust zephyr
Good for you
mossy zinc
So this is like a free version of that.
robust zephyr
well I'd like doing that with more control over when i can use special
fallow stream
Snap in, 2x dash strike, recall, 2x dash strike. Great for mobs
tidal flame
I don't want to put anything down but that seems like normal Nemesis gameplay where your Dash Strikes did most of the work.
honest kernel
2 Dash-Strikes expires the return trip, you just Snap Nova again at that point.
robust zephyr
yeah
tidal flame
Snap did not do much tbh
robust zephyr
that still restricts when you can deal your dmg
to the snap nova interval
crit buff only lasts 3 sec
so u better be fast
mossy zinc
honest kernel
3 seconds is a long time in Hades.
fallow stream
It put me in her face without having to set up a special
honest kernel
I play with Snap Nova almost no differently than I do without it.
fallow stream
If I tried that without snap, I eat many hits
mossy zinc
Snap Nova isn't slower than a normal Nova Smash.
robust zephyr
you can get way more dash strikes if you can simply nova whenever
honest kernel
Same amount of Novas in the same amount of time.
robust zephyr
that just adds so much complications
honest kernel
It adds no complications unless you mash Special.
robust zephyr
its alot of work and overcomplicates sword gameplay
tidal flame
I'd rather not deal with it. If Snap Nova turns you on, go nuts.
mossy zinc
I'll agree it takes some practice. But not that much.
robust zephyr
If i can get consistent results with simpler gameplay over situational effectiveness with complex gameplay i take the simpler one
tidal flame
This guy doesn't want extra shenanigans to mess up my already chaotic dash strike spams.
honest kernel
I'm curious where this very adamant position is coming from since less than 10 minutes ago you admitted to not having any experience with it.
honest kernel
Whereas Nyaanyaa and I both have high Heat clears with it and recommend it.
robust zephyr
I guess it comes to personal preference
a vocal minority loves it and the rest dont
if ur part of the minority and can manage with it
go for it
honest kernel
Personal preference is "I don't like having to control the Dash," not "It overcomplicates gameplay."
One is subjective and the other is objective.
You do not need to remember where the return is.
robust zephyr
In asphodel it becomes a big issue
tidal flame
I mean you are gatekeeping with clearing high heat with snap nova
mossy zinc
Well, my highest with Nemesis is 20, and that wasn't with Snap Nova.
robust zephyr
My highest was 40 without snap nova
tidal flame
Talk pacts instead
robust zephyr
its very elitist
tidal flame
Like Excalibur can be hard to use with FO2
fallow stream
What I don't like about it... You trigger attacks against certain bosses and enemies when you snap in, causing yourself to get hit as you engage.
It does take practice
tidal flame
Is better than "but someone cleared 40+ with Excalibur so it's best sword."
honest kernel
Sure, EM3 and Heightened Security.
You can even Snap Nova onto land if you get stuck in magma.
robust zephyr
Its also not guarenteed to appear every time so if you consciously choose it, you need to revamp your gameplay for it specifically. Whereas if i just take two simple attack hammers that buff my dmg. I dont have to change my gameplay and frankly get more dmg from it.
mossy zinc
Well, Schpoonman said that I cleared high heat with Snap Nova. I just wanted to clear up that I didn't. Unless you consider 19 or whatever I did with Snap Nova as high heat (which I don't).
robust zephyr
I suppose a problem is that it takes a hammer
opportunity cost is something to consider
honest kernel
I'm not recommending it over Double Edge.
robust zephyr
Didnt think you were anyway
honest kernel
Or even Double or Super Nova.
tidal flame
Not referring to you Nyaa, or anyone in that matter. We are all guilty. But just for sake of argument in general, talk pacts, not heat.
robust zephyr
Is this just then a theoretical debate over the viability of it then
Because i think in the context I'd say its viable under certain circumstances. But overall it requires practice, takes a hammer slot but gives a moderate increase to special dmg in exchange + i-frames.
fallow stream
It's just like any weapon aspect. You either like it and play well with it or you don't
robust zephyr
I think then it would be better to think about it in terms of what it gives you
defensive options
it isnt strictly going to help you if you need dmg.
honest kernel
It increases Nova's base damage to 70.
robust zephyr
Yeah but ur not going to use special for major dmg with nemesis.
That is pretty sizable a "moderate" increase to special dmg
honest kernel
It's not your primary damage, but I'm using Nova to every two Dash-Strikes right now.
tidal flame
In Manthro's clip, the epic Doom did a lot of work
So there is merit for snap nova triggering special heavy builds
robust zephyr
Then you have to go doom to get special viability
restricts your build opportunities
mossy zinc
I don't think we can gauge the full strength of it yet, anyway. Need some people to seriously grind with it and do some magic.
tidal flame
But you don't go for Nemesis for special
robust zephyr
Very correct nemesis is an attack-centric weapon
tidal flame
It's a happy coincidence imo
Still, I'd rather not deal with snap nova because it's too big brained for me.
mossy zinc
Inb4 50-heat no-hit clear abusing Snap Nova i-frames.
robust zephyr
I can concede the defensive viability of it since theres basically no competition in hammer upgrades that do anything like that
tidal flame
I can't handle high level gameplay xD
tidal flame
Inb4 50-heat no-hit clear abusing Snap Nova i-frames.
I'll eat a burger if that happens
robust zephyr
too big brained for me
Inb4 50-heat no-hit clear abusing Snap Nova i-frames.
@mossy zinc Do that and ill consider devoting myself to the Snap Nova train
honest kernel
Are there any 32 Heat Pacts that don't have either Hard Labor or go heavy on RNG?
mossy zinc
RI4 is 8 heat.
robust zephyr
Its also pain
robust zephyr
I tried RI1 and the difference between having the ability to get good RNG and not is massive
honest kernel
I actually did just get Snap Nova in Elysium.
tidal flame
I use Hestia so I don't need boons, or hammers.
robust zephyr
As soon as I put on RI, every boon i see is common
tidal flame
So RI1 is free
robust zephyr
Could say the same about lucifer honestly
any rarity zeus attack and u can get DC2 for free
honest charm
common boons are good ๐
mossy zinc
@tidal flame you try to use Hestia.
tidal flame
Excuse me miss.
My patented Curse of Agony Hunter Dash build will one day become meta
robust zephyr
I mean @autumn sable and haelian proved how busted lucifer can be at 44+ heat
tidal flame
I just need Dad to stop pummeling me so hard.
robust zephyr
That out of context
honest charm
have you tried avoiding his attacks?
tidal flame
It's intended
honest charm
-Hypnos
robust zephyr
Have you tried not dying
tidal flame
Just keep your HP above 0
fallow stream
I tried, but I took cursed slash immediately
tidal flame
tidal flame
This channel is too big brained
robust zephyr
It just becomes memed after we try to maintain a conversation about a weapon
the heat gets to us
tidal flame
I'm might need to sleep soon so my brain can grow as big as yall
robust zephyr
literally
fallow stream
I'm might need to sleep soon so my brain can grow as big as yall
When you can calculate 30% of 100 like me, then you will be ready
mossy zinc
Oof. I'll do some in-game testing and create a spreadsheet for that. That's a tough one. Gonna need more data.
fallow stream
You weren't here
There's a reason I changed my name to mathmaster
It was a biiiiiiiig stupid
mossy zinc
Delusion? We all have those from time to time. Well, not me, but . . .
honest kernel
Hey, new sword record, finally got it under 15 minutes.
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
honest charm
which sword?
honest kernel
Nemesis.
mossy zinc
Under 15 at a certain heat or just generally under 15?
robust zephyr
You should have done it with the 5th aspect sword
honest kernel
Just under 15.
robust zephyr
the Zoom Sword
honest kernel
EM3, BP1, MM, FO2.
mossy zinc
I could have made sub 12 the other day, but Styx RNG was not with me.
severe vector
Styx rng is the only rng that bugs me
honest charm
Zoom is aspect 1 I'm afraid
honest kernel
I normally play with HL5, no BP and FO1.
But that was also a pretty textbook Nemesis run with early Heart Rend and 4 Dashes, though no Double Edge.
severe vector
Iโve been thinking about just using fo2 for every run just to build muscle memory at this point
honest kernel
Alecto on FO2 terrifies me.
fallow stream
That's what I do
honest kernel
I feel like she ended more of my 32 Heat attempts than anything else besides Elysium.
severe vector
Are you using melee
robust zephyr
I always pray for tisiphone
mossy zinc
No FO is like easy mode.
fallow stream
Alecto gives more openings than both other furies combined
severe vector
No FO is the hardest thing ever
honest kernel
Nah, that's Tisiphone.
robust zephyr
No FO is easy, free heat amirite
severe vector
Dodge too early and get hit by everything lol
fallow stream
In fact, her attack patterns allow you to stay close and never stop
mossy zinc
I'm more scared of Megaera than the others at this point.
fallow stream
Yes
robust zephyr
Because she knows you the most
severe vector
I hate megโs pellets
honest charm
Tisiphone best gril
honest charm
she was best gril before the update too
robust zephyr
Yeah both gameplaywise and lorewise
she went insane taking care of her sisters but she still persevered, so it just goes to show how caring she was
+100 girl points
tidal flame
I'm more scared of Megaera than the others at this point.
I want to choke whoever suggested the Meg buff.
severe vector
Meg buff is really bad for uptime
honest charm
Meg was kind of weak before...
severe vector
By the way, do you guys think the developers predicted Hestia will be used with mostly reloading after one shot or did they envision the players using up most of the clip then manually reload?
tidal flame
I like Lysol better tbj
robust zephyr
Should have put a crappily photoshoped zoom logo on the sword
tidal flame
Kale, definitely the later
honest charm
don't worry I'll change it back to Lysol after I get my 43 heat Zoom sword clear
tidal flame
But the devs also didn't intend people spamming dash strike on Nemesis so ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
severe vector
The more I use it the more I love it lol
robust zephyr
I didnt expect for the regular sword attack to be so crap that i needed to forgo it for dash strike spam
honest kernel
I wish Stygius's Attack combo were reworked.
robust zephyr
Yes
honest charm
the first hit in the combo is actually good.
robust zephyr
exactly
honest kernel
If only it were more than 20 base damage.
robust zephyr
it looks like a claymore so u would think it is swing sword
honest charm
especially with only one dash
robust zephyr
i thought it would handle like asterius' attack string when i saw that first strike
and the design
then it just plummets into an awkward chop into thrust
honest charm
the chop -> thrust is good for farming hp on low heat cursed slash runs
and basically nothing else
robust zephyr
use flurry slash though
if you could swing more, u get more heal since u hit more enemies with the wider range of swings
honest charm
routing for high heat seems like it would be unnecessarily hard
does anyone do that?
fallow stream
I don't
fallow stream
acoustic hare
Meanwhile, the exit in Tartarus refused to work, and I lost a DD smashing R1 like an idiot
tardy path
What kind of RNG thought it would be a good idea the Boon you desired in Erberus whilst on 40 heat
frail crane
What did you get from the starting boon?
hollow lynx
i imagine hammer
fallow stream
You can see what I got
tardy path
By the looks of it, looks like a hammer
hollow lynx
you're a very friendly person, dio would be proud
acoustic hare
Can you still hug Hades during his laser attack for no damage?
honest kernel
ye
oh HS actually killed me
screw that thing imma turn it off next time
that pact keeps screwing me up and its just 1 heat
acoustic hare
How is Sure Footing being calculated? Does it reduce the total damage (i.e. 25-60% = 15) or does it reduce the percentage of traps' damage increase (i.e. 5+[400%-60%]=22)?
If former then it can mitigate the HS quite well (150-60%=60)
acoustic hare
Have the devs provided the damage formulas?
honest kernel
I feel like nyaperson posted a spreadsheet somewhere lemme see
its on the wiki nice
acoustic hare
So, according to the formula, the damage from urns should be:
30 * (1+[400% HS = 4]) * (1 * (1-[60% Sure Footing = 0.6])) = 150 * 0.4 = 60
robust zephyr
Yeah in my experience Sure Footing does seem to mitigate HS dmg.
honest kernel
I didnt have sure footing :(
robust zephyr
So I think you are right with the math
fallow stream
Sure footing is awesome when you run HS
rotund coyote
for when you feel a run isnt going quite how you want it to go, do y'all just commit die, or do you hit give up and essentially just reset the run
acoustic hare
If I'm okay with my current run seed and just not satisfied with execution, I'm just resetting the run with Give Up.
cyan stag
I try to progress to the bitter end.
tidal flame
I died to hades on 40 again
I know that feeling, I died to him 2 times on 42 heat, 3 times on 40 heat. Yeah... Daddy hits too hard.
severe vector
I keep on dying to hades on 32 heat because I choke but when I just run a test run at like 23 heat with FO2 and BP2 itโs not that bad :/
indigo talon
Hoooo man high heat ||Charon|| is way harder than anything else I think.
daring hedge
@fallow stream that's a pretty normal interaction, and has happened for a while now iirc. if you don't take the erebus gate, you'll still keep your keepsake charge to where athena will still try to force herself after the aphro chamber
autumn sable
Charon is directly buffed by only 3 heat settings as far as I can tell. HL, CP, and FO2. FO2 probably being the more difficult of the three.
mossy zinc
He's buffed by TD2.
I no-hit most chambers with Nemesis on 32 up to the Witches Circle earlier, then my game crashed and took me out of flow, and then I lost 3 DDs in the next 3 chambers (including Lernie) and ended up dying to Asterius.
By the Fates' design.
rocky hatch
im sure this has been asked before, but i couldn't find anything pinned about it
im currently going through 10+ heat runs (not very high, ik, but im planning to keep ramping it up), and i was wondering, besides extreme measures, benefits package, and tight deadline, which pacts do you guys recommend for me to gradually start adding to my runs?
im already pretty accustomed to EM3 and BP2, and typically do pretty well on TD1, and sometimes (tho not always) struggle with TD2
fading star
Hi @rocky hatch. I think a good approach is one where you scale up into the more difficult Pacts of Punishment. For 10 heat I would run something like HL3, EM2, BP1, MM. As baseline
For 11 heat drop 1 from HL to HL2 and add TD1
For 12 heat put HL3 back in
For 13 heat add 1 point into CF
For 14 I'd probably drop the 1 point in CF and add 1 point into AP1
For 15 I'd drop AP1 and add FO1
This is a lot of jockeying of Pacts but what this kind of course will set you on is getting familiar with those really difficult Pacts before you just add them in on really high heat
You don't at all need to follow this path. The idea is that you add a little piece of those different Pacts together and get a feel of what it is like to have to deal with them combined. One thing that I learned is that Pacts of Punishment in isolation are not terribly difficult to managed (except AP2) it is when they are combined with others that the difficulty starts ramping up. For example FO by itself can be challenging simply needing to get used to the increased speeds of enemies and their attacks and projectiles. But it isn't, usually, run crushing. Add HL5 with FO2 and that is quite the increase in difficulty. Throw BP2 in there and those 3 components can actually be challenging enough that lower heats can be hard to overcome
fading star
You're welcome. Good luck and have lots of fun! :)
rocky hatch
<3
severe vector
can't believe i just won a run going into elysium final chamber with my timer already been at 0 for 20 seconds
fallow stream
Nice. EM3?
or regular boss?
severe vector
em3 td2 and fo2
fallow stream
That might be a record
severe vector
all thanks to the hammer that makes my hestia shot bounce once
severe vector
i also just realized a small problem with taking the \|/ triple spear stab thing with BP... it makes it really hard to target down the correct "soul" in elysium without hitting some purple ones and exploding them near you :/ i think it'll be one of the hammers i end up avoiding from now on
tidal flame
You can join us at 1 heat tbh
mossy zinc
Guys club maybe. Girls club is 41+ only. Oh wait. That's only me. I'm the only girl who did 41. O~hohohohoho!
daring hedge
sorry, only if you've cleared 57 with no boons
mossy zinc
everyone leaves
daring hedge
lol
forest vortex
Gotta get that 57 with the Shackle
tidal flame
You are the only girl who cleared 41 that we know of.
mossy zinc
So you're saying you have no proof that I'm wrong.
Therefore I'm right.
@forest vortex congratulations!
mossy zinc
You don't have to do that. The boys club has lower standards. 
tidal flame
Therefore I'm right.
Argument from ignorance. You can't go about committing formal fallacy and act like nothing happened.
mossy zinc
Did you say something?
daring hedge
before doing 41+, consider doing 32 with the rest of the weapons so your victory screen heats look clean, and then ruining it after that by going higher on various weapons
believe me it's THE way to go
tidal flame
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap
forest vortex
Nah I'm gonna go for the 41+
mossy zinc
It's okay. The only high-heat victory you need is with Malphon.
tidal flame
How did they butcher it?
forest vortex
There's a 0.5 sec or so delay between the moment you fire the empowered shot and the reload
Before you can instantly reload mid-dash
tidal flame
severe vector
was it instant before?
forest vortex
Yes it was
tidal flame
how "before" was this?
forest vortex
And it was glorious
severe vector
i do notice the delay but i've only started using hestia last week
forest vortex
Well the Nighty Night Update
tidal flame
Well I started playing at Nighty Night so ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
forest vortex
Yeah me too
tidal flame
Hestia is still busted
mossy zinc
Still an S-tier aspect.
daring hedge
to be fair, hestia is still great
forest vortex
Nah I can't get into it now
severe vector
what are some other s tier aspects? i need to attempt more 32 heat runs
forest vortex
Also there aren't many hammer upgrades that work with Hestia
severe vector
used chaos shield and hestia so far. i need the bustedness on my side
mossy zinc
Hestia doesn't need hammers, though.
forest vortex
I think I'm the only one who hate Chaos
tidal flame
Wait so you started playing at Nighty Night and you can't use it because of some changes made prior to Nighty Night?
I'm a bit confused.
severe vector
hestia doesn't need hammers, but with either piercing or bounce to 1 more target, it really becomes god tier
daring hedge
yeah, those are the two exact hammers that actually are pretty nice with hestia
honest kernel
Off the top of my head, Nemesis, Poseidon, Guan Yu, Chaos, Malphon Zagreus, Demeter, Eris, Hestia.
forest vortex
The "only" two hammer that work with Hestia
daring hedge
like nyaa and kale have said though, it works just fine without them
those are the toppings
forest vortex
Yeah but still
honest kernel
Hestia has plenty of Hammers that, if they don't synergize super well with the primary function, doesn't interfere with it, like Hazard Bomb.
tidal flame
I literally can't find documentations on Hestia or Rail reload changes
forest vortex
It's still good I get it. But I just can't get into it anymore
honest kernel
That being said, it does do very well with Piercing Fire, Explosive Fire, and Ricochet Fire.
severe vector
Okay Iโll do some heat 20 test runs with the aspects you listed sch poon. See if I can get good with them then take them to heat 32
forest vortex
Because it's not documented
tidal flame
Personally I used Hestia on both Nighty Night and new patch and haven't seen any difference
forest vortex
I don't know why
tidal flame
ok then. I guess Hestia is just not your thing anymore, and that's OK ๐
daring hedge
might've been a global rail change to reload buffer
mossy zinc
This one is mostly based on current high heat results. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/630312677855461377/728670803708608594/tierlist-generated-at-tierlists.com.png
severe vector
Now I learned I donโt know the icons of the aspects
tidal flame
I searched for rail changes also, nothing. But things come and go, it's ok
daring hedge
proud to be championing dadspect
mossy zinc
But that doesn't mean it represents relative strengths accurately. Just shows what's been effective and used, mostly.
severe vector
Itโs a good starting point, thanks.
I donโt have maxed out aspects yet so I gotta be a bit careful with investing bloods still lol.
daring hedge
you can still slap lightning strike on lucifer and clear 32 relatively easily, kale
if you're just going for some more 32 victories
severe vector
I... donโt like Lucifer haha
forest vortex
same
mossy zinc
Poseidon in S tier due to ridiculous speedrun records in the past.
daring hedge
i don't really use it very often at all
but it seems to be the autopilot mode for 32 clears if you ever wanted that lol
severe vector
It feels a little janky on controller. Having to dash around and still lock onto enemies for maximum damage output x.x
And the special still goes all over the place when I use it with controller
forest vortex
Speaking of which, how fast is the fastest clear for Hades
severe vector
I do know itโs strong but the small annoyance just adds up for me over time and by the end Iโm not really enjoying the run lol
severe vector
Hestia feels pretty good with auto aim since itโs just one shot
daring hedge
that's fair, if it's not fun then def don't bother
tidal flame
that's nutty
forest vortex
true
mossy zinc
No idea about current speedrun record, but it's gotta be something under 5 min.
severe vector
Is it still spread fire? Shotgun thing?
honest kernel
Yeah, it was Spread Fire from Nighty Night update.
I'm not sure anything that fast has been done in Blood Price yet.
severe vector
I love watching speed runs
honest kernel
Haelian does speedruns and high Heat attempts.
mossy zinc
You can learn a lot of good things from speedrunners.
That are valuable for high heat.
Especially how to optimize your attack patterns for speed.
severe vector
Yeah I learned a lot especially for boss fights
You stream too right? I do wanna watch some fist fights against those two bosses with EM3 and FO2.
mossy zinc
I only really stream for my best friend, but other people come to watch sometimes.
tidal flame
I love watching speed runs
Then you would love my runs. They are very speedy ๐. So speedy they usually end in Tartarus or Elysium...
severe vector
There are some crazy rooms in Tartarus I swear
BP2 and some small rooms can get really overwhelming before your build comes online
tidal flame
There is one room in Asphodel that is the absolute worst
severe vector
Which one?
tidal flame
it's super small, the land is S shaped
mossy zinc
Let's play RPG.
tidal flame
if you know which one I am talking about
severe vector
Oh yea I know exactly which map LOL
mossy zinc
A group of FO2 Numbskulls with Puller and Cloner have come to collect your lunch money. What will you do?
honest kernel
What's my weapon?
mossy zinc
@honest kernel Malphon, the Twin Fists.
honest kernel
Not sweat at all, because Malphon deletes any Numbskull besides Bruisers.
severe vector
https://imgur.com/lusHufd like that...
tidal flame
xD
honest kernel
Savior, Cloner, Speeder, they're all chaff before the storm.
tidal flame
they heard you like being able to move so they said nah none of that
severe vector
I actually dunno how to deal with that situation with a melee weapon
mossy zinc
@honest kernel you've lost a DD, but you've cleared the chamber. Congratulations! Your reward is 100 obols, but unfortunately the Chaos curse is preventing you from picking up any obols for the next 3 chambers.
honest kernel
Oh, this is like KOTOR where even in a situation played out in real time that's a complete wash you can still roll Natural 1s.
mossy zinc
Numbskulls with Cloner and Puller will murder you if you have Malphon, to be honest. Or maybe I've been playing with JS3 and CP2 too much, and it's no big deal without those lol.
severe vector
Oh damn I forgot you do 40+ heat so you gotta turn on JS
mossy zinc
You don't have to do that. But Malphon deals with that pact pretty well, so I can dodge other ones.
severe vector
Which aspect do you run again? Zag?
mossy zinc
I use all of them. Lately mostly Demeter.
misty bough
what counts for high heat 16+ or 32+
honest kernel
By now, 32+.
mossy zinc
Whatever you struggle with, really.
misty bough
okay just curious been off and on lately. but i recall i typically play around 16 to 32 so was just wondering.
i was also wondering what are some tips for a lucifer gun at high heat. any certain god that synergize really well for the beam or special.
or an item
honest kernel
Zeus, Aphrodite, Demeter, Artemis, kinda Dionysus on the beam.
People keep trying to use Dire Misfortune with Ares but I don't think I'm about that life.
misty bough
i do like demeter so demeter on beam will be fun
any hammer boon i should get if i find in my run like 9/10 times? for example i always get the lifegain one for the sword so i was wondering if there is anything crazy for the beam
mossy zinc
We were asking for a channel for high heat because we were talking 40+ all the time and noticed that was probably intimidating a lot of players, and likewise, people arguing with me that some strat or build was viable when they were talking 5 heat and I was talking 40+ wasn't very helpful for either of us. Then we got this new channel when the Blood Price Update launched. So take that as you will.
misty bough
thats fair last time i played was the beta update for a couple days and then i got busy again with school stuff so i had to drop it atm. trying to catch back up. i guess i play medium to almost high heat atm
mossy zinc
Just eyeballing numbers, Lightning Strike + Support Fire should be the highest DPS build for Lucifer Aspect.
mossy zinc
Probably since it just adds DPS on top of Lightning Strike, which should already be the highest either way.
misty bough
so ya think i should do zeus item grab lighting strike and then look out for hammer boons to get support fire
mossy zinc
Best DPS doesn't necessarily mean it's the best for high heat, though.
misty bough
ah okay
forest vortex
I always wondered how does the ramping on Lucy works
mossy zinc
@honest kernel I just had Speeder + Teleporter Flamewheels lol.
honest kernel
I got Puller Shifters once, that was fun.
Got "nothing personnel, kid" so hard they teleported so I was inside the event horizon.
mossy zinc
That sounds like so much fun. Should have backed up the temp save, so you can do that chamber any time you feel down and frustrated.
honest kernel
I think I'd rather have old Bruisers than Shifters or Speeders at this point.
misty bough
how about the special any boon useful for that if i go for zeus or demeter for my attack. cause typically i do god,god, money/acorn, acorn for my items and i want to try practicing with the lucifer gun at medium to high heat. also any tips for using it. like should i use the special a lot or it is mainly primary fire
honest kernel
It's mainly primary fire, I go for Status Curses (usually Aphrodite) on Hellfire.
mossy zinc
You could also just put Deadly Flourish on it to open up Support Fire in her pool.
misty bough
sorry what is hellfire?
honest kernel
Lucifer's Special.
misty bough
ah okay
would demeter/athena be a decent combo? demeter for beam and athena for deflecting hellfires? chance to get the duo too
honest kernel
Stubborn Roots is a Duo that really relies on having Stubborn Defiance, so if you play with that, it's great.
Hellfires are detonated by any attack you do (including Dashes with a hitbox, like Divine Dash, Passion Dash, or Thunder Dash, so be aware it's not going to be super consistent defense.
misty bough
thats true. i might just test zeus/arti or zeus/aphro. for keepsakes what do you guys recommend cause typically i do god, god/utility, god/utility/acorn, and acorn. cause sometimes i do go greedy for boons but i noticed that can mess me up sometimes cause im not using defensive keepsakes like acorn or cerebus or skellys
misty bough
is god for the third area not good at high heat
mossy zinc
god > god/acorn > acorn/coin purse > acorn
honest kernel
EM Heroes are really really nasty.
misty bough
i guess im used to low to medium heat cause at those levels i always did god > god> god/coinpurse > acorn cause i always went greedy for boons and tried to trigger a lot of legendary or duo boons. but i noticed that strategy started failing after 18+ heat and became a lot more diffucult
thank you guys for all these useful tips
mossy zinc
If you need to force a third boon, your build is probably not gonna come together well for Elysium anyway. Since you should have seen 4 gods already, so you should know what to lean in on for that and probably don't need any specific one of them to show up.
Basically, all of the gods you've seen up to Elysium are likely to show up in Elysium anyway. You usually don't need any specific one of them to show up first.
Although sometimes it can be a great choice. But that's more situational.
mossy zinc
If you have some good money when entering Elysium, Bone Hourglass is actually amazingโespecially because you essentially get the effect for 2 biomes.
honest kernel
man I threw my epic premuim vintage run ๐
mossy zinc
What heat?
honest kernel
40
mossy zinc
I find its value drops off a lot at high heat.
The HP is nice, certainly, but it's not a route to duo boons or really anything.
mossy zinc
And you're probably selling boons.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
honest kernel
strongd rink early is so good
acoustic hare
I... I can't do that. I just can't. Hands down. This is just too much for me, even with that Charged Skewer run seed I have now, just... no.
I just can't get what I'm doing wrong.
Welp, can't say I didn't try. Maybe, I'll finally get to play Pyre after giving up on trying to beat 32 Heat.
mossy zinc
@acoustic hare what are you losing to?
acoustic hare
Asphodel is a brick wall. The jump in difficulty is really rough. By the time I reach the Hydra (if I manage to reach it at all) I only have 1 DD and can't manage it.
I still can't understand how I reached Elisium that time when I first got that run seed.
The skeletons and shooting hydra heads (forgot their actual name) jumping around all over the place are very overwhelming.
I feel like the Charged Skewer build I managed to get that day (I'm still staying on that seed) has good single-target damage but sucks at mass DPS. While I'm focusing on one enemy, other 2 already jump behind me, forcing me to dash around like crazy without getting a chance to land a hit.
forest vortex
Meanwhile I beat 32 Heat first time trying today
But Arthur carried me for the most part
acoustic hare
forest vortex
I posted it in #h1-victory-boasting if you're interested
mossy zinc
@acoustic hare what pacts do you run?
acoustic hare
@mossy zinc Here're my pacts:
https://i.vgy.me/D7U3xc.png
foggy ruin
I would never touch high heat with GY so I salute you sir
acoustic hare
Yeah, I in turn would never touch the Rail or Shield under any circumstances because I hate them.
forest vortex
I think a second point in benefit package is not that bad compared to +60% hard labor
Also why would you take Heightened Security
acoustic hare
I think a second point in benefit package is not that bad compared to +60% hard labor
....Yeah.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/hls48c/hey_there_first_time_posting_ive_got_over_300/
forest vortex
Athena would be good for such situation
But I mean if you're taking Guan Yu with maxed Hard Labor then a single hit could one-shot you
mossy zinc
@acoustic hare why do you have JS3 and CP2 if you think you lack AOE DPS?
acoustic hare
Because I really don't want to go with TD and BP2
As well as to add another layers of boon RNG with UC and AP
mossy zinc
I think you're self-sabotaging with those two pacts maxed out.
I wouldn't use CP or JS at all at 32. Maybe CP1 at most.
acoustic hare
Is it really that big of an impact?
mossy zinc
A small number of BP2 enemies is much easier to deal with than a huge army with a ton of HP in every room.
Especially if, as you say, your single-target damage is fine.
If that's the case, smaller number of enemies plays right into your strengths.
acoustic hare
...Well, at least I think it is. Who knows, maybe in reality it sucks.
mossy zinc
UC is fine, too.
You only rely on a small number of core boons with Guan Yu.
So, selling superfluous boons won't hurt you much.
You even get money back.
Maxing out BP and UC lets you set JS and CP to 0 already.
TD1 is much more doable without CP and JS, too, so you could consider that.
You'll get to take 2 points off something else.
Like 1 off CF and 1 off LC.
Or 2 off HL.
acoustic hare
Hmm. I will try that, thank you.
mossy zinc
You'll have a small number of nasty BP2 rooms, but they'll be manageable because they don't hit as hard and the number of enemies as well as their HP will be normal.
Not a gigantic army lol.
acoustic hare
Entered Erebus, and the first enemy that spawns is the Speedy Strong Exalted Greatsword, who immediately gets me with his instant 4-way waves.
mossy zinc
Erebus in what region?
Gonna be awhile until you can comfortably clear Erebus, and even then, I often only enter when I have Deflect.
But the practice is good.
acoustic hare
In Asphodel.
forest vortex
@mossy zinc Can you clear Erebus comfortably in Elysium?
mossy zinc
I'd need to have a truly OP build to even consider entering Erebus in Elysium on high heat.
forest vortex
Yeah it's nuts there
mossy zinc
Tartarus gates are fine because with a lot of builds, I can clear them more often than not.
severe vector
i've never been inside an erebus gate in elysium. what are the enemy choices like in there? does it feature enemies from the final zone?
mossy zinc
So every gate is worth like 1.4x more than regular chambers on average.
You'll get stuff like ultra elite Megagorgons lol.
severe vector
okay i'm never going in
mossy zinc
And for some reason, they get BP perks.
Even though they don't get those in the Hades fight.
I really don't think that should be allowed.
acoustic hare
Although, reaching Hydra this time, with changed pacts, was much more easy. I plowed through Ashpodel in 4 minutes and figured to try and go to Erebus. And then... well, that happened.
Decided to reset the seed and try something else.
iron mural
do people usually take RI in 32 heat?
i wanna get it over and done with with chaos shield, but im running into some issues
tidal flame
okay i'm never going in
@severe vector but you need the codex entries
do people usually take RI in 32 heat?
It's a toss up and totally depends on personal preference. I don't, but that doesn't mean that I won't in the future.
severe vector
yeah i'm too scared to go in elysium ones after hearing what happens in there lol
tidal flame
Yeah I also don't touch Elysium Erebus with 10 ft pole
I go there to farm Onion entries 
if I actually do
severe vector
i feel like if i go in one, i'll either die or run out of time for TD2
severe vector
mix of luck, shield being broken and skill ๐
iron mural
not coming back tho its pretty toxic over there
severe vector
where?
severe vector
oh did you have jury summon on?
tidal flame
Congrats!