May try to figure out a calculator for this eventually
#h1-high-heat-strategies
zinc scarab
tidal flame
is boon level information anywhere on the wiki?
mossy zinc
There's no data on pom scaling anywhere.
patent umbra
Probably because they continually adjust poms in some respect every patch
zinc scarab
best guess is the first pom gives * 1.2 effectiveness
patent umbra
I'd be interested to know from a dev/dataminer if poms are consistent across runs or if they're also a multiplier/range
zinc scarab
and it recursively decreases
autumn sable
@tidal flame there's this: https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/fb16rv/mechanics_of_poms_vs_rarity/
take that however you will
patent umbra
WOAH
Okay, that's actually surprising
That actually changes my mindset a lot on poms and rarity
tidal flame
pom gets exponentially worse
which is to be expected. any question is how rounding works with flat damage boons such as zeus lightning boons
patent umbra
That part I understood long ago
It's the disparity between poms on passives/casts vs attacks
autumn sable
yeah, that's one of the caveats for stuff like Zeus and Dio
patent umbra
(though I wonder where specials fall in this, probably close to attacks)
autumn sable
I imagine the rounding must not be that severe because at some point you'd have poms giving dio no increase at all, right?
which I don't know if that happens
patent umbra
IDK. I had a heroic flourish for him today and got it to level 11 and it was still giving 1-2 per pom
autumn sable
right
patent umbra
So yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you. Seems like you can never round below 1
autumn sable
i mean, they could just have a floor
mossy zinc
I've never seen anything less than +1 damage from poms.
patent umbra
It would make sense
tidal flame
is it worth it to expand the data to pom level, too?
zinc scarab
Dio tends to get +2 from his first pom, and +1 from all poms afterwards
patent umbra
We would need to know how poms work first
tidal flame
actually
patent umbra
Does it give +x%? Does it give 1.2-1.5x?
tidal flame
given pom is a multiplier to the modifier, HBS will smoke DS even further
patent umbra
If it's another range, then that makes the math so much more annoying. Especially if it's inconsistent. Ex: level one to two is a 1.2-1.5 multiplier but level 2-3 is a 1.0-1.1 multiplier, etc.
autumn sable
but if pom is a multiplier, it should multiply both HBS and DS the same
and cancel each other out
patent umbra
See, I'm not sure that's true
It may be
But considering you have flat damage values for other boons, poms may be specific to each boon
tidal flame
Say Epic Rarity HSB with High roll, level one pom gives 40% x 2 x 0.5 = 40% additional from your non boon base damage
patent umbra
My guess is that you're right though, Krasher. But I wouldn't discount the possibility of unique pom interactions
autumn sable
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
tidal flame
Level 1 DS gives 40% x 2.5 x 0.2 = 20%
patent umbra
Also, is +40% on HBS equivalent to +40% on DS? I feel like the answer is "no" because of the crit possibility. Isn't that unequal scaling why this doc exists?
tidal flame
since it's multiplication, the higher the pom level, the worst for DS
mossy zinc
DPS with +40% damage will be the same for both.
patent umbra
^ Thanks. That answers that at least
mossy zinc
On Nemesis.
If your last hit with both routinely overkills, then Heartbreak Strike will be ahead in DPS at +40% damage.
tidal flame
but with same pom scaling it is worse for DS
tldr don't pick DS on nemesis and zag bow
mossy zinc
I can add pom scaling or make a separate spreadsheet when I have some better data on that.
autumn sable
Now that i'm reading that thread a little more thoroughly, it seems poms definitely go a longer way with flat damage
zinc scarab
You mean pick DS with Hunter Dash if you're running zag bow?
And yeah, poms are far far better on flat damage like dio or demeter cast
tidal flame
I can add pom scaling or make a separate spreadsheet when I have some better data on that.
I don't think you have to, with each pom level the difference between HSB and DS is even larger
HBS scales off pom way better than DS does if the Reddit post is correct
The more poms, the further DS lags behind, all else being equal.
zinc scarab
Eh, I'll still run DS on Coronacht, think it still runs better
tidal flame
well if you don't get good rarity sure, pick DS
but it begs the question, why would you ever pick a comon HBS
mossy zinc
You're not factoring in tier 2 crit boons, which Deadly Strike will benefit from more because it crits more often.
zinc scarab
HS Gives 75% damage at rare, and only gets better with rarity/poms
As DS outscales HBS at 50% and 100% outside damage respectively (if i'm reading this correctly) for rare and epic
tidal flame
You can still get HS if you go HBS
zinc scarab
and you typically can't get heroic easily
DS outscales HBS baseline
Ooh neat splitting headache was buffed to 1.5%
autumn sable
what is HS?
tidal flame
HD
autumn sable
you're literally the worst
autumn sable
Hunter Skip
autumn sable
this has all become very complicated math
tidal flame
no ball
autumn sable
just one?
tidal flame
this has all become very complicated math
I'm upset that I didn't catch the .85 + 0.15*3 formula
ughhhh
tidal flame
Yeah I thought of it as 1 + .15*2
which is the same thing
but in my head it played out differently
zinc scarab
(1 - crit chance) * damage + crit chance * crit damage
yeah initially i thought it was 1 + .15 *2 instead of 3 and i'm just not as good at math as i thought
zinc scarab
Why am I so bad at Hades with bow
autumn sable
bow takes practice, tbh
zinc scarab
I feel like I can do the rest of the run with zag bow no problems
autumn sable
oh, you mean Hades the fight
zinc scarab
and then FO2 dad just smacks me down
autumn sable
not Hades the game
tidal flame
Why am I so bad at Hades
with bow
This is me
tidal flame
Mr. Hades
mossy zinc
That will never catch on.
zinc scarab
Luckily I'm just doing FO2 right now, will boost with HL5, and whatever else affects him eventually
autumn sable
I might just be remembering wrong, but I feel like Hades gives you way less room and opportunity to breath on bow these days
cloud kelp
any good arthur builds ?
tidal flame
Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish. Deadly Strike + Heartbreak Flourish.
Hunter Dash or Divine Dash.
tidal flame
Divine Dash. I don't use Hunter Dash, but it's K.
Hunter Dash does not affect the combo swing
cloud kelp
thx
zinc scarab
I wish it did tho
cloud kelp
is it me or ps is opop
tidal flame
photoshop? yeah it's p OP. but GIMP is up there, too
autumn sable
it's quite strong
zinc scarab
priviledged status is pretty crazy strong, especially compared to family favorite
autumn sable
can be conditionally difficult to set up
mossy zinc
Ugh, the initalisms are getting out of hand.
autumn sable
not particularly useful for some common high damage builds, or at least very difficult to set up reliably
zinc scarab
We should probably make a list of at least all the heat acronyms
autumn sable
it could be you!
mossy zinc
DS + DD + DF is a very safe and strong build on M ZA. Figure that one out. 
autumn sable
make aggy throw a pin into it
zinc scarab
Well, time to quickly jot it down
tidal flame
Wth is DF?
autumn sable
divine strike, divine dash, deadly flourish, malphon zag
autumn sable
it is in my heart
tidal flame
Divine Flare
autumn sable
and that's what's important
mossy zinc
Deadly Strike + Death Defiance + Divine Flourish?
tidal flame
Maybe DD and SD
mossy zinc
I only use initialisms for pacts and defiances, yeah.
tidal flame
What? I rarely use initials except for pacts and defiances
It's true
Bar the conversation about Deadly Strike and Heartbreak Strike
Which the initials came from Nyaa spreadsheet
mossy zinc
@tidal flame has bugged out.
zinc scarab
Pact of Punishment Acronyms (The number next to the acronym is the rank, typically maxed out):
HL - Hard Labor
LC - Lasting Consequences
CF - Convenience Fee
JS - Jury Summons
EM - Extreme Measures
CP - Calisthenics Program
BP - Benefits Package
MM - Middle Management
UC - Underworld Customs
FO - Forced Overtime
HS - Heightened Security
RI - Routine Inspection
DC - Damage Control
AP - Approval Process
TD - Tight Deadline
PL - Personal Liability (Supergiant Games give us this without Hell Mode please)
Tadah
tidal flame
Ok maybe Spreadfire as SF also
zinc scarab
Now where's a lurking mod to pin this
autumn sable
Spreadfire as San Francisco?
tidal flame
but I didn't start it
Spreadfire is San Francisco?
@autumn sable don't be a smart Alex, you were there when people use SF for Spreadfire. I merely inherited it.
mossy zinc
Yes.
zinc scarab
Yes
autumn sable
wait, what do you mean by "typically maxed out"?
tidal flame
Shadow Slash for that 360 no scope backstab with Excalibur exceptionally wide swing.
zinc scarab
Man that feeling when you swap aphrodite attack for epic athena attack, and in the next room get the offer to swap right back
mossy zinc
Just try either one, and see for yourself. Then next time, you try the other.
zinc scarab
stonks
mossy zinc
Replacing Lady Aphrodite's boon in the first place is very mean.
zinc scarab
it was 68% to 72%
According to math, she loses
she learned her lesson and offered something better
autumn sable
i feel like playing hard to get is something that aphrodite can appreciate, tbh
mossy zinc
Rude.
zinc scarab
Exactly. And if not that, at least she should know maths
tidal flame
Man that feeling when you swap aphrodite attack for epic athena attack, and in the next room get the offer to swap right back
Then you sell it at Underworld Custom because that's 3 boons for 1
@autumn sable that Meg fight was harder than Dad fight
autumn sable
I can't deny that I've had more Dad fights than Meg fights
zinc scarab
Actually selling arte special cause I only have 3 boons
autumn sable
you like that summon whiff on Meg though?
tidal flame
Yeah xD
zinc scarab
I hit a trial on the way through cause Tart
tidal flame
How did you even miss that
autumn sable
it takes talent to whiff that, what can I say?
I have no idea, I rewatched that part and still had no idea where my bros went
zinc scarab
Did quick recovery get a buff?
tidal flame
Patty: Good luck stranger, my work here is done.
Swoosh cape
tidal flame
He gave you a Touch of Styx though
autumn sable
made up for Meg and powercouple
autumn sable
@zinc scarab yeah, quick recov got a small buff
autumn sable
100% I abused that call
zinc scarab
Common now restores 30% health lost so that's nice
autumn sable
a good amount
tidal flame
It's wild.
autumn sable
it depends on which one actually
tidal flame
Tisiphone is free
autumn sable
yeah
tidal flame
100% pass rate
autumn sable
Alecto got easier too
tidal flame
Alecto and Meg is a toss up
zinc scarab
1 in every 30+ runs at the moment
autumn sable
either Alecto got easier, or Meg just is comparatively harder
tidal flame
1 in every 30+ runs at the moment
I mean for 40+ heat
autumn sable
it's mostly the Meg flare that really can chunk you when I'm not expecting it
zinc scarab
Yeah that's a fair point
mossy zinc
I think most of my deaths to the Furies at 40+ are to Megaera.
autumn sable
I think across all my games, it also feels like I run into Meg the least
so when I crank up the heat and run into her, it's just a lot of inexperience hitting me in the face
tidal flame
It's the low health pool on SD for me
autumn sable
yeah, i think that's a big part of it too
tidal flame
Essentially you are operating at about 60% health no DD
autumn sable
i definitely succeed more often with higher health leaving Tartarus
that sounds like the most ridiculously obvious statement
now that i've written it out
tidal flame
No I get it
My runs either end in Tartarus or in Elysium
At worst end in Hydra if I get past Tartarus
autumn sable
i was consistently dying at Meg or some unlucky room spawn in Elysium
i dunno why I say was, I still am
tidal flame
It's k, i type with little to no attention to grammar anyhow.
cloud kelp
aspect of truck suck and i suck
zinc scarab
Aspect of Thicc Sword is fantastic
cloud kelp
i suck with it so bad
i just lost a death defiance to theseues on 5 heat
i feel like a wimp
any way to turn off auto aim in pc?
hollow lynx
tardy path
@zinc scarab Thank you for that
Now we just need a table of the meme names of aspects
cloud kelp
i feel bow sucks sometimes although i know its jsut me
robust zephyr
dont use dash on cursor it forces you into dashing offensively.
cloud kelp
unless u flick that wrist
honest kernel
I used dash-to-cursor in Hyper Light Drifter, but the one time I attempted it in Hades it wrecked me.
Try both, use what works better for you.
honest kernel
Beowulf doesn't lodge Bloodstones, you shouldn't even see it spawn.
cloud kelp
it just plops out when i use it
robust zephyr
hunters flare with beo is really good
get mirage shot and some chaos cast dmg boons and your set
cloud kelp
whats hunters flare
autumn sable
hunters flare seems like an easy heart rend set up
honest kernel
It is, but the crit rate of only 10% kinda hurts it.
You really want some additional chance there, and a Pom'd Pressure Points could do the trick.
acoustic hare
I still can't get my head around a proper way to fight with the spear. Just what's the best DPS source on it? Seeing all the posts about strolling on 40+ like it's normal to them while I can't get past Tartarus on 32 is... slightly discouraging. I'm this close to giving up on that stupid trophy and going back to getting bounties on 16.
mossy zinc
Nobody "strolls" through 40+; a ton of attempts end in Tartarus.
acoustic hare
Yeah but I can't finish any of those attempts. I just don't have enough DPS and get overwhelmed with armored mobs.
mossy zinc
What aspect?
acoustic hare
Either Hades or Guan Yu. Can't get to land spin attacks on both though because the mobs are just so quick.
mossy zinc
Hmmm. You could watch @daring hedge's 40-heat clear with Hades Aspect from the pinned spreadsheet.
Probably best for getting some ideas for how to make it work.
I think Varatha's DPS is pretty low, anyway. You're not alone in struggling to make it work on higher heats. 
acoustic hare
The thing is, I just don't feel like using anything other than the Spear. I hate the Rail and Shield, and the rest are just... meh.
Sure, I could probably try and go triple grenade or something but I just don't wanna.
It's a shame, really.
teal blaze
I feel like the spear doesn't do enough damage against bosses
probably because I am just smashing buttons and is not focusing the attacks on the enemy
but it does get a bit frustrating
honest kernel
Spear's pretty hard, honestly.
mossy zinc
I'm sure Tailesque can give you some good tips when he's around. I'm no Varatha expert by any means.
hallow stream
@mossy zinc all right, we beat the save file
hallow stream
I'll have the video up sometime
but I'm shaking a little bit right now
but now I think I know the fight for athena fists pretty well
mossy zinc
I think it's safe to say that was the hardest Hades fight for you yet.
mossy zinc
Now do it without deflect.
Lv.1 Guan Yu RI4 no deflect.
Looking forward to the video. Making that save was a good idea.
hallow stream
no hades challenges for a little while for me for now lol
but yeah thanks for the save
really appreciate it
mossy zinc
Sure thing.
mossy zinc
Poseidon Crush Shot?
tidal flame
If you space yourself right, the casts will still do full damage and won't lodge (if they do then Poseidon Special them out)
Aspect of Poseidon
hallow stream
should be good
tidal flame
I'm testing it later today
The spacing is lenient, damage is there, Poseidon Special.as failsafe if you accidentally lodge
autumn sable
is there an actual spacing to that to be consistent?
tidal flame
Just the tip
autumn sable
interesting
autumn sable
sounds complicated
tidal flame
Thanks Peachy Challenge, makes me use Crush Shot and actually appreciate it.
autumn sable
but also interesting
hallow stream
wait, what/where is the new challenge
tidal flame
Check pins in #h1-builds-and-combat
It's updated weekly
It's fun when yoy don't want to bang your head against 40+ heat.
autumn sable
speaking of, I took Zag spear and it wasn't too bad
fathom hearth
I'm already banging my head against 35 heat
autumn sable
couldn't get exploding launcher but managed to Elysium without it okay
might have to try and get exploding launcher and do a real run
fathom hearth
I managed 32 twice with Chaos Shield, training for 35. The farthest I went was Hades 2nd phase. :(
Should check out the challenge though
autumn sable
Hades 2nd phase sounds like you're pretty much there
fathom hearth
Yup, I was so frustrated when I died lol.
I have a huge respect for yall managing 40+ heat runs.
autumn sable
it's like 70% war of attitrition vs rng
tough cedar
how much heat is considered high heat? 
tidal flame
20+ for normal, 25+ for Hell Mode is my personal threshold
But different people have different definitions
fathom hearth
I'd really like to do a 32-heat with Rama
autumn sable
i think we have a pin about it
fickle mirage
Nah, that one's just for the scary ultra-high combos, for 40 or so.
autumn sable
it's not specific but it's basically any heat where you're struggling
fickle mirage
My personal threshold is when it's over 15, or specific challenging combos (FO2, BP, MM, and EM packaged together in some combo, usually).
autumn sable
it's the pins from one of the staff
tough cedar
for me 1-15 is low heat, 16-31 is medium heat, 32-39 is high heat and 40-57 is ultra high heat (aka my city on a summer day)
tidal flame
Your inner Minnesotan is leaking
tough cedar
57F is 13C
tidal flame
I bet you wear shorts in 15F
tough cedar
thats almost freezing where i live
tidal flame
Ik
autumn sable
my inner Minnesotan is always leaking
tidal flame
Oopta, let me sneak right past ya to 42 heat
tough cedar
i dislike how you gotta remove mirror talents/rely on RNG for boons on ultra high heat
not my cup of RNG tea
autumn sable
i'm quite sure you can get near mid 40s without touching routine inspection nor approval process
tidal flame
Imagine max JS and CP2 with TD2
tough cedar
but then you gotta rely on LC4 and SDs and i'm not that advanced yet
tidal flame
Shudders
fallow stream
Removing mirror talents is the one I dislike the most
Even though a run is perfectly manageable
tough cedar
removing mirror talents is tied with AP for me for worst options
tidal flame
RI1 is fine imo
fallow stream
It's just that I grinded it for so long
tidal flame
Anymore is pain
tough cedar
just seeing 3 white boons offered makes me sad
autumn sable
yeah, I was doing RI2 for awhile but it's way more punishing than I gave it credit for
fallow stream
Honestly @tough cedar
SD makes getting to bosses super unstressful.
You just have to get better at bosses to succeed with it
That's the trick
tough cedar
that's the problem, unless i'm playing with shield i'm often too reckless on bosses and lose ~2 DDS
i tried it for the first time this week and managed to die at meg 
fallow stream
Meg is the toughest fury for me
The other two are easy
Others think she's the easiest, but she the most upredictable for me.. random invulnerable moments mess up my damage rushes
Alecto can be facerolled once you understand her simple attack patterns, and just get outta the way of her Beyblades
tough cedar
alecto is the hardest for me, both as the main fury and as helping fury
tis was the worst helping fury for me, but she's fine now that they nerfed her giant wave attack thing
fallow stream
Alecto as assist fury is annoying, I agree
tough cedar
i think tis is the easiest fury now, the buff they gave meg was significant
fallow stream
In general, my biggest pet peeve is enemies constantly retreating on top of traps.
.... Because I use fists
tough cedar
i never activate the +400% trap damage because otherworldly forces attract me toward traps
even with ranged weapons
acoustic hare
I should probably try SD the other day.
acoustic hare
I mean, I keep losing 2 DD in Tartarus so what' the big difference lul
tough cedar
i love losing a DD just as bouldy arrives and drops all those healing items over my corpse 
mossy zinc
Ideal is calling him over Zagreus's corpse when you don't have another DD.
cloud kelp
okay boys i need help in a dilemma
mossy zinc
Guess I'm not needed then.
mossy zinc
I'm a girl.
mossy zinc
I'd rather not be called a boy.
mossy zinc
I'm actually going to sleep lol. But good luck!
daring hedge
the dilemma is still a mystery
tidal flame
Lol
What a meanie
Well we probably can still help you out mate
Or at least Tail can :3
mossy zinc
Pick Malphon. Pick Divine Strike.
daring hedge
mossy zinc
There, I've helped.
daring hedge
that's nyaa's solution to every dilemma
hallow stream
it's not even a dilemma
cloud kelp
my question was
mossy zinc
It's super effective!
cloud kelp
should spend titan blood on gy or other stuff
daring hedge
hard for us to answer, really
tidal flame
Max GY if you want to do high heat
daring hedge
depends on which aspects you like
GY benefits greatly from upgrades, though
it's pretty rough going unupgraded
tidal flame
HL5 will one shot you
cloud kelp
hl?
daring hedge
hard labor, +% damage from enemies
cloud kelp
oh ye
i know what full names mean
hmm i wonder if i want to upgrade spear
or bow of chiron
or rama
daring hedge
yeah, it really depends on what you have the most fun using
daring hedge
and would use to rack up more bounties with
mossy zinc
I don't understand. Neither of them is a Malphon Aspect.
daring hedge
try out the other weapons a bit, even if unupgraded on some "trial" runs to see what grabs your attention more or what clicks
that's what i did for some aspects
cloud kelp
i liked gy
rocky mauve
+1 for malphon, most fun weapon
cloud kelp
its unique
mossy zinc
Yeah, there are a variety of great aspects. Three of them, to be exact.
cloud kelp
i already maxed out malphon
cloud kelp
actually just the magnet and demeter
rocky mauve
which one is gy?
mossy zinc
No.
daring hedge
lol
mossy zinc
Only high heat strategies here. Your gif is low heat smh.
rocky mauve
pulling off a spin build is so fun. too dependent on rng unfortunately
tidal flame
Only high heat strategies here. Your gif is low heat smh.
It features Aphrodite boon at the ene, but I guess you don't appreciate it
daring hedge
nah, dark regen is great still
tidal flame
Also yoy can test run it
mossy zinc
See, I knew I wasn't needed. No Malphon questions.
tidal flame
Don't walk back to mirror
cloud kelp
also whats worth more
tidal flame
Entire up to personal preference
tidal flame
I use room reroll because i have more blood invested in it
daring hedge
hard to say. persuasion has a lower mirror max because it's surprisingly potent, and keys can give you more reroll charges anyway
but authority is still good
mossy zinc
2 rerolls aren't that much better than 1, but still very potent. 3 are a big jump because you can reroll your first boon twice if necessary.
For Persuasion.
I'd still take 2 Persuasion over Authority, personally.
cloud kelp
Is Erebus worth in elysium?
daring hedge
or even super elites
tidal flame
They probably won't kill you but a tag is enough to end the chamber
daring hedge
sometimes multiple at once, one being a miniboss super elite
cloud kelp
thought so
torn vapor
@mossy zinc I see you in the #h1-for-new-players 
And I would suggest that you mind your words there as that's not exactly your territory.
torn vapor
Just reminding you, if you are going to advice people there or partake in any discussion there, to think twice about what you will be posting there.
mossy zinc
Why are you telling me that?
torn vapor
It's a different mentality than how things are being discussed in this channel, for example.
Because I saw some posts.
mossy zinc
What posts?
tidal flame
Tbf other people on that channel was also spreading questionable information
Like max darkness in 30 runs is ??
For that particular scenario Nyaa did response to correct that which is beneficial i think
torn vapor
@tidal flame I see you finally found the right channel.
For example, this gives the impression that the playerbase is segregated, which is not.
mossy zinc
I'm going to sleep.
torn vapor
Block helps a lot when learning the game, and the shield throw is very safe.
This gives the impression that to further advance into the game, you will need to drop the shield block, which is not true. Blocking helps a lot throughout the entire game.
Among others.
silent ember
Imo I think #h1-for-new-players might be getting a bit twisted in its purpose and might need a bit of a clarification post. I've seen it being used to discuss things that perhaps aren't even clear for new players, such as just now, max mirror and fated persuasions and such. I think such discussions and big numbers and the foreboding grind and what have you, in this case, might be off-putting for those who the channel is targeted at, but that's just my opinion.
mossy zinc
What?
silent ember
I don't agree with you there Peach, nothing there can be interpreted as that.
torn vapor
Just saying, if you want to help new players, do give advice remembering how you played in the beginning.
silent ember
Shield is the beginner weapon for a reason; it's controlled and makes the game a lot more manageable for a majority of the player base.
That statement of Nyaa's is not at all liable for such misinterpretation imho.
torn vapor
It's different to say "Block helps a lot when learning the game" than "Block helps a lot."
mossy zinc
I've coached probably hundreds of new players in fighting games, and I've tutored students for a couple decades. But thank you for your feedback.
tidal flame
Yeah I think that's a neutral statement...
torn vapor
I'd just left it at the 2nd one.
silent ember
From what I've seen Nyaa post there, however little, it does generally seem to be helpful and constructive.
zinc scarab
I'm actually on TLC's side for the shield block statement. It sounds more like "hey shield has innate defensive options that are very useful especially while learning the game"
mossy zinc
I'll be going to sleep now.
silent ember
Mind you, however little is only because I don't frequent that channel.
@mossy zinc Sleep well 
zinc scarab
Gnight Nyaa
mossy zinc
Good night!
silent ember
@zinc scarab Precisely my point. I am someone who very much reads between the lines, but there is genuinely nothing that's wrong with Nyaa's statement. Like, genuinely.
daring hedge
i can see where you're coming from peach, but i do think it's a fair thing to say that block is a helpful tool while learning the game, since it grants opportunities to see enemy attacks and behavior without necessarily getting hit. it can help players acclimate easier than with a weapon that doesn't have such a defensive option. this can be true without being mutually exclusive with the notion that block is still good once you've gotten used to enemy patterns later on
silent ember
Also, and while this may come off as confrontational, you telling Nyaa that #h1-for-new-players is not their territory, while at the same time calling out saying that Fox seems to have found the right channel for them seems a bit off.
And yeah that's true Tails. All in all, what Nyaa said is just fine, if not encouraging and validating for a new player. New players step in knowing full well they're beginners afterall.
I think that the only language that should be called out is anything that's overtly spoilery, or condescending. Other than that, this just seems a little bit off.
zinc scarab
I disagree, I think Nyaa's statement of "haha fox is bad" while commonplace for her, instigates that the #h1-for-new-players channel is for bad players only. While new players are obviously less practiced then people in this channel, it's still discouraging
Fair point Fox, will drop it
So what's everyone's opinion on Chiron bow 32 heat +?
tidal flame
Can we get back to complaining about dying to TD2 in Elysium? I like that talk better.
So what's everyone's opinion on Chiron bow 32 heat +?
Bad, next xD
daring hedge
i could go on and on about that, you know
or the couple runs where i get to the champs with a decent chunk of time left, but...
low health and play sloppily
zinc scarab
Alright, follow up: What would make chiron good? or at least better than it is right now?
daring hedge
aoe capabilities are severely limited, which, while mostly true for other bows, dash-strike power shots are at least more mobile and ramp easier with hammers like twin shot or perfect shot
chiron needing that heavy investment in the special can bite sometimes, especially in a high heat environment
cloud kelp
IS charon keepsake ever worth taking
zinc scarab
At low heat or with a lot of cash, definitely, especially in elysium (typically where you have the 1/2 gods you're looking for)
you can stack 7+ items easily, and you can even use it right before styx before changing out your keepsake
It's definitely not the worst keepsake, even though it may not be the best
daring hedge
yeah, the ability to carry respectable passive bonuses through entire biomes from even just one well to start is pretty strong. it's just that some other keepsakes can be stronger for either run control or survivability at certain points
cyan stag
In Styx, the keepsake may even help to carry bonuses into the last fight, and their strength is on par with a boon if used properly.
tough cedar
with the amount of new not-that-great well items i feel like the keepsake got an indirect nerf
daring hedge
i feel that sometimes, yeah. the pool dilution made things a bit weird for wells and chaos in particular, at points
silent ember
This new update sure did introduce some gambles.
"Buy a random Well of Charon upgrade!" "Buy a random boon!"
It's a bit weird.
tough cedar
the gemstone pack and fish lure don't help either
silent ember
I have to disagree with you on the fish lure.
cyan stag
Fated Persuasion became a lot more relevant as a result.
vivid crater
the gem stone item gives so few gemstones
tough cedar
at the same time, fated authority seems to have been buffed
vivid crater
but the lure is definitely a nice addition for me
silent ember
If you know how to catch fish, or if you have a Chaos thingy around... Then Chaos fish.
And that's nice.
tough cedar
i mean fish lure doesnt help make charon keepsake better
and 60 gold is ridiculously overpriced for a fish (except chaos)
vivid crater
i feel like it was probably the right balance; they did adjust the natural duration along with this patch
silent ember
Not really.
zinc scarab
would the gemstone stuff and fish lure be better if they could only appear on heats you've already completed? making them more items for farming runs and removing clutter from higher heat runs
silent ember
Perfect Scyscallion is 60 gems
One is a meta currency and another only lasts during a run.
tough cedar
exactly, i'm talking purely on viability on a run
60 gold for cosmetics in the house isn't what you're looking if you want to have a better clear
cyan stag
Elysium fish are definitely worth the price.
zinc scarab
I think the fishing point is well priced, I just think it doesn't make sense to take it or hunt for it in higher heat runs
silent ember
Yeah
zinc scarab
which should be somewhat obvious lol
vivid crater
i mean, it's not that i don't see your side, but of all the random additions added this patch, i personally haven't found any of them detrimental enough
i was a bit irked by the random boons in the store
but it's honestly not that bad; it's just basically another reroll
you do it everytime you wait for the rooms to show what they have anyways
tough cedar
random boons is fine
but some well items are very underwhelming
like plus backstab damage, undamaged enemies damage for example
at least very situational
vivid crater
those are actually useful though
tough cedar
the special damage one is actually nice to have
daring hedge
a bit of a tangent but i do think the undamaged mechanic could be made better to apply to enemies above a high-ish health threshold, instead
tough cedar
undamaged is super niche, it's basically ice wine or stuff like that
daring hedge
as of now it's ridiculously situational and limited in advantage compared to backstab
cyan stag
The "random well item" item really feels like a waste of space to me.
tough cedar
yeah, random boon is fine since it's cheaper
tough cedar
but random item can give you an item worth less than what you paid for
charon is straight up scamming zag
daring hedge
@vivid crater fiery presence only applies to enemies totally undamaged, still
vivid crater
oh i thinking of high confidence it seems
but that's the other way around
i can see that being turned around though
daring hedge
ah, yeah high confidence is 80% or up to have the buff
zinc scarab
shadowy presence applies for the entire fight, you just need to position yourself well
daring hedge
yeah
zinc scarab
fiery removes the positioning but only applies for 1 hit of damage
daring hedge
fiery presence only gets more niche/useless during boss fights, other than hydra's adds where it can kind of do some work
tough cedar
damage control also kinda negates fiery presence
daring hedge
yeah, DC forces further micromanagement of hits to take advantage of it and it's honestly just not worth it
zinc scarab
fiery presence just isn't great
vivid crater
maybe if there were more options that synergized with it; but that would be bring another set of issues
this game's mechanics incentivize doing more hits that are smaller than less hits that are large
daring hedge
i do think changing it to a threshold would be better for its viability overall. huge damage hits like a hestia empowered shot still wouldn't be able to benefit from it probably more than once or maybe twice on bosses, while weapons that previously found it mostly useless could get some big damage off for the first chunk of the health bar, and without any micromanagement of it
zinc scarab
So apparently if there's a mini boss room and a non-mini boss room you can roll a boon from the same god in the miniboss room if it's appearing for the non-mini boss?
That's weird
hardy bobcat
which aspect / build of the Rail do you guys think its best for a 32 heat run?
i have no clue
zinc scarab
You could run the new L||ucifer|| with Zeus, or hestia with pure damage
tidal flame
Yup, Lightning Strike Lucifer and Deadly Strike Hestia are both solid choice for 32 heat.
vivid crater
@zinc scarab like, you can have a boon from the same god showing up in two doorways? is that what you mean?
zinc scarab
Yep, effectively
vivid crater
that is weird
zinc scarab
For example, say you're in chaos or asphodel, and are presented with 3 options
2 options lead to minibosses and one doesn't. Let's call the non-minboss room "NON"
The boon in NON is artemis, while the other rooms are zeus and poseidon, or whatever
if you reroll one of the other two rooms, you can roll artemis
Or at least, that's precisely what just happened to me, and it was weird
vivid crater
i feel like that's not intended behavior, if only from a design standpoint
zinc scarab
I agree
vivid crater
feedback?
zinc scarab
probably
vivid crater
maybe; wouldn't hurt
hardy bobcat
@tidal flame @zinc scarab ok thanks guy, i'll unlock Lucifer aspect and try it with lightning strike, if i don't like i'll go with Artemis Hestia
zinc scarab
Good luck, and make sure you enjoy yourself!
hardy bobcat
thanks I will!
tidal flame
Good luck mate
hallow stream
@mossy zinc and anyone else, the epic Hades fight challenge is complete. Video in #self-promotion for the viewing pleasure
zinc scarab
That thumbnail.
hallow stream
you love it don't lie
zinc scarab
I adore it, it's the best I've seen quite honestly
Now do it again with Common Zeus attack
hallow stream
no u
zinc scarab
Aw damn you got me there
First, 6x32, then pushing up heat
Currently working on my GY spear gameplay for the 32, though I have been throwing in a few nemesis dash runs and one or two achilles spear crystal meme runs
Also, I think it's possible to attack dad during his double spin into whirlwind attack if you hit him from directly behind (like asterius)
zinc scarab
I think you'd need to be directly behind him, which may be worth dodging through him for
hallow stream
that's hidden tech for another, manlier run
drowsy berry
@robust zephyr -- just to provide some context on your "Twin Shot is slower on Rama feedback". The reason it feels like that is because it's the same 'charge time' over a lower distance. While this may not change your feedback, I just wanted to explain why it might give you that impression. To achieve the same 'charge feel', Twin Shot would also have to increase your attack speed by the amount of the range decrease.
robust zephyr
Nice to know that it isnt a bug or anything.
Still as you say, the 'charge feeling' on rama with twin-shot is less fluid than base. I wonder if regular rama shot should be made faster to prevent the sluggish draw speed on twin-shot or if the hammer should moderately increase the attack speed only on rama aspect to compensate.
mossy zinc
@fading star have you ever tried Curse of Agony + Divine Flourish + Hunter Dash on Demeter Aspect for a Merciful End build? Spamming Dash-Strike > Dash-Upper combos.
That sounds like it might have the potential for even higher DPS than Curse of Agony + Divine Dash.
Might be lower than just putting Deadly Flourish on it, though.
zinc scarab
I'd assume that'd be worse than Curse of Agony + Divine Dash + Deadly Flourish
as your dash-upper will only trigger Merc End once, and then just do damage
I do think that Demeter aspect is probably the way to go with fists however
Of course, all fist aspects are pretty good in their own right
mossy zinc
Deadly Flourish without Hunter Dash would do less than Heartbreak Flourish.
zinc scarab
That's a good point, forgot hunter dash applies to uppers
In that case, heartbreak flourish replaces deadly flourish
should work just fine
I don't think merc end would do enough or be triggered fast enough with that build. Maybe heartbreak strike, deadly flourish, hunter dash? looking for heart rend of course
mossy zinc
Dash-Upper is essentially immediate after a Dash-Strike. You also have essentially no dash recovery to deal with. You can spam Dash-Strike > Dash-Upper forever.
fading star
@mossy zinc I've not tried that build. I actually don't play much of the Demeter Aspect myself
mossy zinc
I haven't that much until recently, either.
zinc scarab
what about divine strike + heartbreak + hunter dash?
deadly reversal on heartbreak flourish?
heart rend possible?
although I suppose heart rend wouldn't do anything lol
mossy zinc
You can't get Heart Rend with Hunter Dash.
zinc scarab
For reference, poseidon on demeter aspect is shockingly bad
I actually remember getting heart rend with hunter dash
Even talked with peach about it
Wait, my bad that was deadly reversal
Look I'm just gonna head over to #h1-for-new-players , and stay there for a bit
robust zephyr
can you get heart rend with true shot now?
mossy zinc
I think so.
robust zephyr
Cuz i remember getting it with only trueshot
and an aphro boon
also seems that you can get splitting headache with trueshot as well
lofty sable
I second Demeter Attack on fists, especially if you get the boon that explodes when you hit full stack of chill. Funnily enough I usually use Demeter Aspect with Demeter Attack and then proceed to wreck face
mossy zinc
You first it, actually, we hadn't said anything about Frost Strike.
lofty sable
Ah. I got Demeter Aspect confused with Demeter Attack lol
zinc scarab
Did Family Favorite always affect the damage of companions?
robust zephyr
isnt family favourite the same as privileged status in that it amps all damage sources
same way eris rail works too
zinc scarab
I'm not sure, I thought it increased damage sources for attack/special/cast additively
robust zephyr
then it would be worse than privileged although it already is
zinc scarab
It may just affect everything now, as it does affect companions now
robust zephyr
well thats good now all they have to do is un-nerf it and i might consider using it
mossy zinc
Family Favorite is fine.
robust zephyr
yeah but it takes getting one of every single gods boon to match privileged status
zinc scarab
Yes but it's an always on bonus
You don't need to do anything at all to get it, and it doesn't require 2 curses
robust zephyr
2 curses is easier to get though
mossy zinc
Privileged Status requires that you apply 2 status curses for it to actually take effect. Not every build does that.
robust zephyr
overall u would get about 4 different gods average unless you forced out different gods with keepsakes
mossy zinc
Your attacks that apply the curses also don't get the buff from Privileged Status.
robust zephyr
Hm?
mossy zinc
They exist for different builds.
robust zephyr
what do u mean they dont get buffed
mossy zinc
Your attacks before you've applied the two curses don't get the buff.
robust zephyr
and?
that only affects something like hestia
but even then u can just hit again after to get the buff
mossy zinc
It affects every weapon aspect, though.
robust zephyr
idk how significant of a difference it is to not get the attacks before applying the curse getting the buff versus family favourite
mossy zinc
Exactly.
robust zephyr
?
mossy zinc
You don't. But it's a factor.
robust zephyr
Alright then I still think these are very flimsy reasons
zinc scarab
family favorites applies to builds for arthur, nemesis, a good amount of cast builds, hestia, most bow builds, oftentimes spear builds, etc.
zinc scarab
so most of sword, spear, bow, a good amount of fist and rail
if you can't trigger privileged, you can't benefit from it
robust zephyr
Triggering privileged isnt very hard though
mossy zinc
Crit builds don't apply status curses unless you happen to run into Hunter's Mark, and Hunter's Mark applies only rarely and never on the target you actually hit.
robust zephyr
whereas getting family favourite to get the same benefit will take every single god
you get more dmg from crits if you deal more dmg
zinc scarab
Duck, in a build with artemis and athena how are your triggering PS?
Consistently on one boss?
robust zephyr
get another god
zinc scarab
What about aphrodite athena?
robust zephyr
blinding flash
those are only two builds
i would still go privileged
its less boons than ff
mossy zinc
I've had plenty of runs that never saw Blinding Flash.
zinc scarab
Mathwise yes, reliability-wise, no
robust zephyr
well then focus on two different gods for privileged
i.e get dio and aphro for privileged
zinc scarab
sure if you can consistently keep 2 curses on a target priviledged does more
robust zephyr
its not like you only have 2 sources for status curse
zinc scarab
but a lot of direct damage builds can't get curses, or keep curses up on a target
robust zephyr
can put it on your dash, attack, special or cast or call
again it is so worth it that i would go for dio/aphro/demeter even if im not gunning for their duo boons simply for privileged status buff
mossy zinc
So I need to focus on a completely different build just to make Privileged Status work? I think you're making our case for us.
mossy zinc
Why would I put something like Drunken Dash on a crit build when I can run Hunter Dash?
robust zephyr
put it on call/special
zinc scarab
there is no guarantee you'll be able to pick up the gods, curses, or keep up the curses
robust zephyr
theres also no guarentee that you will get 8 gods
zinc scarab
nobody is assuming you get 8 gods
robust zephyr
I didnt expect so much support for family favourite
zinc scarab
you typically get 4-6 gods per run
robust zephyr
typically get only 4 honestly
zinc scarab
20%-30% always on damage
robust zephyr
6 if u force 2 random gods
zinc scarab
hermes and 2 main gods is easy
and extra gets forced on
then you can typically either branch out or not
mossy zinc
I love Dionysus' Aid, but you don't have the status curse up very often or very long in chambers, and often not against bosses, either.
zinc scarab
not really changing my build if i'm forced 2 random gods
i will agree that family favorites could use a buff, as priviledged status is an independant 1.4 multiplier to all damage
mossy zinc
And Drunken Flourish is absolutely terrible on Malphon's Special lol.
robust zephyr
i think most ppl start with god god then whatever for the last two biomes
in terms of keep sake
if u want ff to pay out with similar effectiveness to privileged status
u need 4 different god keep sakes
besides certain gods are free status curses
aphro/dio/demeter
you may randomly get them and u can assign them on something u arent using for free benefits
zinc scarab
you don't need 4 different god keepsakes
robust zephyr
well if you dont want to force out a similar dmg bonus
zinc scarab
and that's three of 9 gods
the game will give you more gods than just your keepsake gods
robust zephyr
isnt it capped at 4 without forcing?
hermes always appears
well idk why i spent so much time trying to debate about the effectiveness of privileged status vs family favourite. If you guys really want to use it you do you.
mossy zinc
I don't think you appreciate that I get way more out of Family Favorite over the course of an entire run in a lot of builds without having to jump through hoops to make Privileged Status work or having luck with T2 status curses to actually apply oneโwhich also means I need to actually pick that T2 curse when other boons could be more importang, e.g., I'm not picking Blinding Flash when I get offered Brilliant Riposte.
robust zephyr
thats only a few gods but even then you simply benefit more for simply getting 1 more boon than losing half the dmg bonus
mossy zinc
I'm not picking Drunken Flourish on Malphon just to trigger Privileged Status.
And if you want me to pick up 4 gods just to trigger Privileged Status, I'm already at +20% at all times instead of +50% only some of the time when my Call is up.
for simply getting 1 more boon
Underworld Customs would like to have a word with you.
robust zephyr
the only benefits im seeing is having it up always. That for the cost of dmg, requiring more boons and less freedom of keepsakes
do u need it always though? Big differences are made on minibosses, bosses and certain annoying enemies
mossy zinc
You're telling me I need to pick up boons I don't otherwise care for just to trigger Privileged Status, but Family Favorite requires more boons?
robust zephyr
worthless on small mobs
i have to pick up more boons i dont care about just to match privileged
mossy zinc
That makes no sense.
robust zephyr
if ur fine with 20% dmg
then go for it
dont need that much to kill a numbskull
and have it always on
mossy zinc
I don't need either for Numbskulls, what does that have to do with anything?
robust zephyr
the argument on having it on always
you dont need it on always
only on annoying enemies, minibosses, bosses
mossy zinc
+50% some of the time is not necessarily more than +20% all of the time.
robust zephyr
well again you dont need more overall dmg over the course of the run, its usually those specific enemies that you need more dmg to beat
mossy zinc
And if you have to change your build for it, you're losing out on other potential effects.
robust zephyr
you keep saying that 1 boon changes your build
mossy zinc
Why do you need damage only on specific enemies?
The main problem for high heat is TD2 in Elysium.
robust zephyr
i dont need dmg to kill a numbskull
mossy zinc
And that's not only bosses.
robust zephyr
most enemies that have low hp dont need additional dmg to beat. Usually the tankier ones and privileged status gives more value quickly.
mossy zinc
You don't have 100% uptime of Privileged Status on bosses with every build, either.
mossy zinc
How much uptime do you need?
robust zephyr
enough to practically kill them
I would be on your side if privileged status was weaker dmg wise
but its more than double
mossy zinc
You're completely dismissing Family Favorite without any numbers to support your arguments.
robust zephyr
is 20% always more than 40% most of the time?
you cant always say
but 40% is mostly higher
Your argument is literally 100% uptime= ff better than privileged status.
mossy zinc
I'm not saying either is better, you are.
mossy zinc
You have nothing to support that claim, though. Only hypotheses.
mossy zinc
My evidence for what?
robust zephyr
that privileged status isnt overall better
most of the time
Frankly i dont have the motivation to want to gather evidence for a mostly worthless debate
mossy zinc
Burden of proof isn't on me. I'm not the one making the claim. I'm pointing out flaws in your arguments.
robust zephyr
heh its just the backseating syndrome, you get to point out flaws, play devils advocate then feign neutrality and leave scot-free.
lets leave it here
mossy zinc
I've nothing to gain or lose from winning or losing the debate. It's not a personal matter. I'm only interested in sound theory and application thereof.
tidal flame
Fwiw with RI and AP I run exclusively Family Favourite.
Privileged Status is simply too unstable to be run at high heat.
robust zephyr
I suppose high heat becomes the point of contention. But overall it becomes a similar argument to whether you use DD or SD. certain pact options or it doesnt become a viable option.
tidal flame
Lower heat where freedom of boons is yours, sure Priv Status is better.
I mean you are arguing in the high heat channel
robust zephyr
well thats a very arbitrary argument though
tidal flame
The mindset here is different
tidal flame
Here's the thing
The proper way of considering high heat is whatever you are struggling with
But in general, there is an implied consideration that discussion of viability is 40+
And I'm saying this with the risk of being misinterpreted
robust zephyr
its also a very subjective thing to consider since many people dont use approval process or underworld customs because they want the freedom but they can cope with certain pact options that other people may not use
tidal flame
But let's be real, most people who post here run 40+
robust zephyr
I guess im in the wrong crowd should head to #h1-for-new-players
tidal flame
Well I'm giving you some context
This is what I meant when I said Inrun the risk of being misinterpreted
I sound like a douchebag
robust zephyr
i guess this really is a different world then since 40+ and non-40+ completely change the viability of certain mirror options
may consider using ff if i ever get to that point
tidal flame
Yeah. I don't want to give the impression that this channel is exclusivistic
mossy zinc
I generally talk in the context of 40+ here, yeah. 32-ish gives you way more freedom to do whatever you want.
robust zephyr
yeah im near 32+ so i kind of see the blindsight in my argument now
tidal flame
But I think we can all do a better in stating the context of heat before engaging in discussion
robust zephyr
Indeed
mossy zinc
32 you can run RI4 and have neither of these options.
tidal flame
I'll chalk this up as no harm no foul.
robust zephyr
that makes a world of difference
tidal flame
We can move on :3
robust zephyr
Back to talking about whatever players talk about in this channel
tidal flame
Tldr any heat here is welcomed. Please don't leave I love this channel xD
Anyhow, I can't see Rama being good on 32+
I'm struggling hard rn
robust zephyr
same
tidal flame
I hate explosive shot
robust zephyr
I really tried to use it for my 32 bow win but im getting screwed by benefits pack rng
robust zephyr
and boon rng in general
fallow stream
I would consider anything above 32 heat to be high heat, as there is nothing to accomplish beyond 32 except personal challenge
Having said that... I skipped everything after 32 heat and went to 40, lol
tidal flame
Caitlin explicitly said that any heat you are struggling with is high :D
robust zephyr
I skipped 20 and went to 32 even though I probably shouldnt have
mossy zinc
32 and lower quite honestly I'm also aggressively hunting for Lady Athena and Lady Artemis boons with Malphon and only pick up other gods for a Call or to fill the Cast slot with whatever, so I can get more t2 from the two gods I want. I rarely get both Blinding Flash and Hunter's Mark in a single run even hunting those two aggressively.
tidal flame
But in general yeah, 40+ is where everyone struggle at so that's "baseline" xD
fallow stream
That's fair @tidal flame
tidal flame
Oh yeah, I also rarely run Pric Status with Artemis
She is best girl because she is down to earth
robust zephyr
artemis has a really bad status curse for it though
since it doesnt apply on the primary target
mossy zinc
Yeah, exactly.
robust zephyr
her duo boons and dash are really tempting though
zinc scarab
crystal clarity makes beam far more usable
tidal flame
I'll be honest I rarely touched her cast side
robust zephyr
i suppose cast builds dont have a place in high heat
zinc scarab
they really don't unfortunately
tidal flame
All I know is crit and hunter dash :3
robust zephyr
but overall the crit duo boons are the temptation
deadly reversal is a huge gamechanger for instance
20% crit chance when high crit chances are scarce
not to mention on all dmg sources
mossy zinc
Deadly Reversal + Brilliant Riposte does a ton of damage.
robust zephyr
brilliant riposte is surprisingly huge, i used to find it underwhelming but considering about half of the enemies will have some projectile attack in some way, it is an easy way to destroy lesser and greater enemies alike.
Plus the access to divine protection can be situationally amazing
mossy zinc
If you get an Epic Brilliant Riposte, that's 1040~1200 damage for every skull you deflect.
And you can put poms on it.
That's without Deadly Reversal.
mossy zinc
That's HL5. I don't know if it's lower without that, actually.
mossy zinc
Base deflect damage with HL5 is 400 for the skulls.
Haven't paid attention on lower HL runs.
My practice saves all have HL5.
robust zephyr
Now I feel like getting acclimed to HL5 with athena that sounds like a game-changer in terms of dmg
mossy zinc
I don't think it changes deflect damage, actually.
tidal flame
Yeah HL5 actually brings out some weird quirks
mossy zinc
Also, that base 400 might be affected by Family Favorite, come to think of it.
tidal flame
For example if yoy have EM3 and Aphrodite Call, you can charm Theseus and the frat boy will 3 - 4 shot the cow.
mossy zinc
So base might be lower than 400.
tidal flame
Seriously, I wish I had that recording, still...
I wonder if HL5 affects deflected damage
I truly have no idea.
robust zephyr
i mean i remember recalling that HS increase enemy trap dmg
so maybe HL5 works like that with deflect
mossy zinc
I don't think so. My HL5 clears should be a lot faster if they did, I would think.
tidal flame
My example would be that deflected large purple balls in Elysium cannot one shot spreaders with CP2
robust zephyr
yeah that sounds like a theoretical game-changer if it worked
tidal flame
With like a tiny bit of health left
With +100% HL damage I would think that would triumph the +30% health
But that's not the case so I'm inclined to say HL5 doesn't apply to deflected damage
mossy zinc
@tidal flame what's the duration of Ares' Aid now?
mossy zinc
Because I want to know.
tidal flame
It last 2s based on my fuzzy memory
Not scientifically calculated, I just eyeballed the number
You are welcomed ๐
mossy zinc
1.2 sec from 2.5. Interesting.
mossy zinc
In the game.
tidal flame
ah kay
honest kernel
HL 100 and FO2 cow doesn't make me feel so good 
tidal flame
yeehaw
honest kernel
at least I realized that I gotta hang by the walls bc the pillars won't work anymore
tidal flame
the cow will join the too fast too furious crew soon with that kind of drifting
zinc scarab
Wait you can enter a chaos gate while a trove trial is in session?
mossy zinc
You can leave the area any time during a trove encounter.
zinc scarab
I had no idea
mossy zinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gm04kroX-p7lMNSmNcFdKCw4mmff-5i83QsKVwOBNDA/edit?usp=sharing
hallow stream
what is this spreadsheet science stuff
mossy zinc
Call damage on a single target!
hallow stream
interdasting
fossil wharf
I don't think crit is included for artemis' call
mossy zinc
It is.
Base damage at common is 100, crit chance is 20%, so the average damage is 140.
hallow stream
crit chance for arty call is actually 35% now