Found a Beowulf bug
#h1-high-heat-strategies
fallow stream
@jovial shore I concur with @autumn sable
Particularly in Tartarus, if you see health or obols as Erebus reward, it can be run changing for high heat.
If I'm not giving up a miniboss room for a boon I want, I almost always go for two erebus gates in Tartarus if the opportunity presents itself
tired charm
I know I joked about Varatha being best used in a caster build
fallow stream
Side note.... If you are running the Lambent plume it also gives you a bonus room to pump up the bonus effect of the plume
fallow stream
Spear takes a back seat to casts
I agree
I wonder if curse of drowning would help it
Create space for spins/combos
tired charm
Like what’s the cheese this season. Demeter laser light show?
tired charm
Yeah, like the ice stuff in general has a ton of legit picks now
With very clear synergy
fallow stream
Blizzard shot is still THE pick for spear though
I can't believe the damage output of that
Beowulf makes me sad... Here are a list of duos it gets shut out from:
Hunting blades
Frozen vortex
Lightning phalanx
Crystal clarity
Cold embrace
Maybe more
Yet somehow it can still use Blizzard shot...
autumn sable
i'm not sure, but these beowulf bugs and discussions sounds like they should go in the channel above
or f10
or even feedback
fallow stream
I've already posted there. Just wanted to inform people considering Beowulf for high heat is all
torn vapor
Whenever you find a bug, please send a report via the bug reporter by pressing F10 while being inside the game, preferably as soon as you experience the bug. If you think game performance overall is being affected, please provide more details and an expert will help you with your case in #h1-tech-support . #hades-feedback is not intentioned for bugs or technical issues 🙂
fallow stream
Gavin asked me for direct feedback earlier on the performance. I submitted bug reports as well
torn vapor
Ah yes, I saw! Isn't Gavin great? I just wanted to leave that as a heads up so people won't be posting bugs or performance issues in #hades-feedback (hopefully)
So don't be sending people to #hades-feedback when it comes to that 
fallow stream
Yeah, he's good. At first it was a question on whether I needed to change settings, so I tried a bunch of stuff he asked me to do.
It's nice having pseudo live support
autumn sable
i was suggesting the beowulf duo list to feedback, not the cast stone issues
autumn sable
Ultra high heat list has been updated for the final Blood Price patch. Day 1 45 heat completion.
This patch off to a high bar
drowsy berry
@autumn sable is there video of the run?
autumn sable
@drowsy berry yessir, I will repost the spreadsheet with the links in #self-promotion
shut siren
It's worth mentioning here for newcomers and old timers alike doing high heat stuff, Chaos and Erebus gates do not add additional encounters to your biomes.
They replace one. (Say you're in Chamber 5 in Tartarus, you take a Chaos gate. That gate becomes your Chamber 6. You are spit back out into Tartarus at Chamber 7. Meg will still be at Chamber 14 regardless of you taking the gate or not, hence you lose an encounter for that biome.)
The only exception is taking one right before the shop before a boss. (Taking a Chaos gate in Chamber 12 for example will make Chamber 13 your Chaos room, and Chamber 14 your pre boss shop. Meg will instead appear at Chamber 15.)
So be actively careful when opening those gates. They're an active risk that you can enter later chambers with less immediate benefits (although their rewards are greater)
fallow stream
I should have been more clear in Erebus giving a player a "bonus room" to upgrade trinket effects like the plume or butterfly.
What I meant was, it can give you an extra opportunity in a situation where you have rooms where there would otherwise be no combat available to upgrade effects, such as an Erebus gate at the end of a biome.
It made sense in my head when I was typing it, lol
mossy zinc
Hrm. Hades's thrust after a dash has barely any startup at all. The thrust after he goes invincible neither.
mossy zinc
Life 1 phase 1, he does a thrust, spin, cast, dash thrust, dash spin, and he goes invisible into thrust, spin, or cast.
Spin and cast are easy to i-frame on their own. The thrust hits me out of dash startup pretty often if I focus on telling thrust from spin. If I don't focus on that as much, I can i-frame the thrust more reliably, but the spin will hit me more often because I'm caught without another dash.
Call right after he comes out of invincibility will easily i-frame all attacks, but I'll want calls for the summon phases . . .
barren girder
yeah, I hate the Hades fight. A lot of animations are not anticipated easily and he has a bigger range than his animations seem to tell. But then again I love it being hard.
mossy zinc
I'm not trying to get out of range anyway. I'm trying to deflect or i-frame consistently.
ember bronze
I find Hades changes a ton based on my defensive setup and the level of FO
Hades FO0 just feels like he does nothing now, after playing on high heat a while
drowsy berry
@mossy zinc can you clarify if this is with Forced Overtime level 1 or 2?
mossy zinc
That's with FO2.
ember bronze
Being near him on FO2 I have trouble reacting to dashes/skulls
basically never neutral vs. Hades 😛
mossy zinc
I'm practicing the fight with HL5, CP2, MM, FO2, HS, and DC2.
ember bronze
I try to have a rhythm of--he's doing something, I'll dash through it and hit him
mossy zinc
Not sure if MM affects the fight, but I've been told it does.
daring hedge
the thrust is definitely something with very little tell in FO2 as nyaa mentioned, honestly. it's more of an expectation that it will come out at any time and remembering to strafe often enough to avoid it if he does decide to pull it out
the most reliable hades thrust telegraph is simply when he's far away and has to close the distance to perform it
mossy zinc
Anyway, I'm practicing with only Ruthless Reflex, Divine Strike, Hunter Dash and a call (Dionysus' Aid) with all the pacts that affect the fight.
ember bronze
If he's neutral, I usually try to wait to see him start to do something before going in
mossy zinc
Just focusing on i-framing attacks really.
honest kernel
Middle Management should not affect the Asterius miniboss fight.
Just Extreme Measures 3.
tidal flame
I thought you get normal Asterius on MM, no?
honest kernel
Yup.
autumn sable
@hallow stream could probably provide a lot of insight on the Hades fight as well. He mentioned that Hades has a lot of audio cues that really help with the more low-telegraphed attacks like the spear thrust
mossy zinc
the most reliable hades thrust telegraph is simply when he's far away and has to close the distance to perform it
He can dash into spin or dash into thrust. So that one is a problem if you only have 1 dash.
ember bronze
I mostly stopped playing 1dash due to Hades
daring hedge
i thought MM was in context to the hades fight here
in which case giant soul catcher can teleport, for example
autumn sable
since he spent a lot of time in the Hades with with only 1 dash
ember bronze
The risk of 1dash and no Hermes means I could lose a run
mossy zinc
Yeah, somebody told me MM affects the summons, but I actually haven't noticed that. So no idea lol.
tidal flame
MM Butterfly can TP
honest kernel
I wanna say the Super Elite would teleport regardless, but I haven't run without Middle Management in a while.
ember bronze
Most of the time I get to Hades with any combination of extra dashes, deflect, shield, or high movespeed, and it's much safer
tidal flame
If summoned by Hades
daring hedge
same boat here, schpoon. i'm honestly not 100% sure
mossy zinc
Megagorgon summon seems to be no different with MM.
daring hedge
since it's technically a different enemy than the miniboss, being a gray superelite, but the line is blurry between them
mossy zinc
I would actually love to hear some insights on the fight from @hallow stream, @cedar spire, and @fading star—especially with 1 dash.
@drowsy berry by the way, can we have @autumn sable's list of high heat clears pinned in this channel? It seems to be within the spirit of the channel, and I think the list is pretty cool. 
drowsy berry
Yes, that is a good idea. @autumn sable can you repost it here and we'll pin it?
cedar spire
@mossy zinc I suck at Hades with 1 dash, nevermind if FO2 is on. Wriste is definitely the man for this topic, has much experience doing it. I feel like FO2 = Extreme Measures 4 in some ways, the final fight is just kind of crazy. Barely any time to get in damage between the attack patterns.
mossy zinc
FO2 feels the same to me.
There are new enemies and EM1 is faster.
That just might be it. Also, the game might perform better for you now than before the update. So if you had slowdown here and there before and now you don't, that would make things faster overall.
daring hedge
i'm pretty sure many enemy animations were sped up in the update relative to nighty night, actually
wraith imp
The game worked very well (re: smoothly) for me except when I would use talos aspect special. Otherwise, I enjoyed the game a lot. If the talos aspect lag problem has gone away then I'll know for sure the new update fixed that.
daring hedge
so yeah, FO2 would also be a little faster paced than before
mossy zinc
Patch notes mention nothing of that, and it doesn't feel faster to me. The Exalted hit harder.
Forced Overtime: added foe-specific limitations in cases where this was particularly unfair...
daring hedge
i know the patch notes don't mention it
but e.g. hades got noticeably faster on FO2 from nighty night to blood price
and this applied to other enemies as well, asterius being a pretty clear one to me
mossy zinc
I think you're imagining it.
daring hedge
i'm not.
asterius cycles through his attack patterns more rapidly than in nighty night
wraith imp
Yeah, that's when I started to think my suspicion had some validity.
mossy zinc
That's specific to Asterius.
daring hedge
updated various other attacks does not necessarily mean "only asterius has had his attack speed changed"
asterius is just a prime example that i think shows the shift pretty clearly
wraith imp
Amir or Gavin or whoever could settle this mini-debate with a yay or nay on this topic.
<shrug>
daring hedge
i know they don't always like to outright explain game details but i'd be down, for sure
drowsy berry
We did not make enemies faster on Forced Overtime 1 and 2. There may be bugs, but there was no intentional change during the Technical Beta or live.
We did make changes in the opposite direction though for Forced Overtime 1 and 2: on an enemy-by-enemy basis, we enfore more 'minimum' times on attacks where they seemed too sudden or like glitches.
If there is a specific attack you think looks wrong, that helps us to know. You can F10 that.
mossy zinc
Thanks for the clarification!
daring hedge
thank you for the confirmation, amir!
mossy zinc
See, I was right. I demand cookies.
mossy zinc
🍪 nom nom nom
wraith imp
"You'll get nothing! AND LIKE IT. GOOD DAY SIR!"
mossy zinc
Madam.
wraith imp
Dammit.
daring hedge
i am curious about what has felt so off about the animation speed in blood price, though. since you're right about FO1 and 2 not changing and all, but there has to be something making me, and some others feel like enemies are faster in certain places
part of the reason i felt this way stemmed from how hades aspect runs went between updates, for me
like i have had less time to perform whatever spin setups i'd like
mossy zinc
I think Exalted hitting harder is a big factor.
Any time you get hit is a lot more punishing now.
So when things go wrong, it's more noticeable.
daring hedge
while i can see the reasoning for that, it's more directly tied to how fast the attacks come out, at least for me personally
and i have no clue how i'm gonna get to the bottom of that feeling
mossy zinc
That and the new enemies don't telegraph their attacks very much yet. I suspect they'll finetune that.
wraith imp
In my case, it could be just be me getting back into the swing of things. I took a long break between the updates and I only recently returned when the beta was launched. So climbing the learning curve about the new boons and weapon aspects appears to have affected my perceptions.
But when I watch others stream (so I'm not caught up in the moment), I get the same feeling that the enemies look faster/quicker.
daring hedge
that's a valid perspective, yeah
strangely for me though, it was a pretty seamless transition
mossy zinc
If some attack startups were changed, that could mess with your timing.
daring hedge
i had been playing rather frequently and continued with the tech beta
that could be it, yeah
mossy zinc
And I don't know how the game performed for you before the update. I was getting 142 average fps before, and I get 142 now.
Basically 144 with some rare dips when changing rooms and stuff, I suppose.
daring hedge
i don't think the feeling is necessarily tied to FO specifically, for what it's worth, while amir and yourself have said as much
i think my performance has stayed pretty much the same across the update (pretty sure)
only difference being that tech beta room transitions would take a while, sometimes. gameplay felt smooth though
mossy zinc
Well, before I had occasional freezes when taking damage and stuff. I don't experience those at all anymore.
mossy zinc
I was actually recording in 1080p today, what do you mean lol. But the video was not worth uploading.
It's just me dying over and over again practicing to i-frame Hades's attacks perfectly lol.
tidal flame
Well then urm welcome?
tidal flame
Do you reload the save after every death?
mossy zinc
When he's dying, yeah.
mossy zinc
I don't know how doable it is with the summons.
If not for summons, it should be pretty easy with 3~5 dashes.
daring hedge
yeah, i mostly mean in terms of an entire themed run
daring hedge
and building upon lightning reflexes deliberately
tidal flame
You kill Hades in 3 to 5 dashes?
mossy zinc
I think you'd have some real trouble with Witches.
mossy zinc
lol
tidal flame
In my defense, from the conversation, it gives the impression that you kill Hades with Lightning Reflex damage from 3 to 5 dashes.
daring hedge
what, you don't? 
tidal flame
Level 1000 Lightning Reflex
daring hedge
hades equivalent of the anime trope where two characters dash at each other in an instant and one falls over defeated
i'm actually curious about how high you can get lightning reflex damage with poms now
and getting it to heroic with eurydice etc.
tidal flame
Tfw when sweet nectar is actually a sought after Duo xD
daring hedge
lol exactly
mossy zinc
@cedar spire thanks for the reply, by the way. You should hang out here more.
leaden dagger
does anyone have high heat success with Talos? i cant not get smacked in the face after pulling something close and smacking it in the face
mossy zinc
You should dash-cancel the special immediately.
That way you only do the pull.
You can pull and dash right through enemies that way, then go for backstabs.
You can also pull individual enemies out of groups to deal with them.
It's all about control, and I think the skill cap for it is really high.
If you get smacked in the face, you already know not to pull those enemies at those times.
@hallow stream used Talos for his mirrorless clear on 32.
leaden dagger
lot more success almost cleared an erebus room but sat on the last bomber's death bomb 🤦♂️
fading star
Well... I can confirm one sad reality: Twin Fists Zag Aspect + Drunken Strike + Bad Influence is fantastic for everything but the fight with Dad. My DPS super suffered in phase 2...
hallow stream
@mossy zinc So here's what I know. First, Hades's basic thrust can be avoided just by strafing. I have a video on my channel (fairly clearly labeled, but DM me if you want the direct link). Second, Hades's skull toss can also be avoided by strafing, but we prefer not to. In any case, what this means is that we're rewarded for constantly moving.
Next, his spin attack can be dealt with in one of two ways. First, we can use his audio cues. Hades has a "wind-up" grunt, followed by a more explosive "attack" grunt. If you play on low speed, you can see this more clearly. Playing on low speed also shows (the second way we deal with him) when the "real" spin comes out as opposed to the "telegraph" spin.
The question then is how do we deal with this fight, knowing this kind of information? The answer depends entirely on the weapon and the aspect. Each one will look different. The video where I beat Hades with one dash, no Athena was with Hestia, a VERY effective weapon for the fight. My 35 heat run showed, I think, a pretty decent understanding of the fight as well. You'll see some pretty nice dodges (and some mistakes).
What I would recommend doing is to save a file that you think will test your skills with a certain weapon. So for @mossy zinc it'll probably be some fist. The fewer "crutches" the better. You can do this by entering the Hades fight, QUITTING out before the fight starts, and saving the backup file. You can then change the filename and use that as a base for practice.
Then see how long you can survive the fight. I haven't listed all of his moves here (the second phase can very hard with a single dash), but familiarizing yourself with them will take a lot of the guess work out.
As an example, in my 35 Heat mirrorless run, the second phase saw a lot of waiting. When Hades triple-dashes, I know he's going to spin, and I know the timing. Learning those timings, unfortunately, is the only way out, unless you have some invulnerability.
I would like to say more, but it's very aspect-dependent. And it'll take a fair bit of practice. So if anyone knows anything, let me know lol.
I hope this helps with what you were wondering.
drowsy berry
@daring hedge one thing you can do to validate your experience is to play on 0 heat or no Forced Overtime and let us know if it feels faster overall.
daring hedge
that's a good call, i'll try that sometime and see if anything's up! sorry if my feelings about it have seemed imaginary or don't line up with how things have changed (or not), i'm still trying to make sense of why i've felt this way 
fading star
I've spoken with @hallow stream on his efforts on the Dad fight and one of the most important takeaways for the Twin Fists I found is the need to stop attacking to move accordingly, be it to dash for the spin attack or strafe for all others.
zinc scarab
I think the main thing I struggle with against redacted is definitely running a dash strike build. Because you lose the immunity frames of dashing to attack, I have to break my habit of dashing through most of his attacks
fading star
It sounds like @zinc scarab and I agree, hahahaha!
daring hedge
i've definitely been guilty of this with fists in particular on some runs, yeah
zinc scarab
It's why I love athena on fists dash
But trying a dash strike build on nemesis sword always ends at redacted
What doesn't help is that Haelian's nemesis dash strike run effectively just gets hit by literally every redacted attack, and just ignores it for dps. Hard to learn how to not get hit from it
daring hedge
good news: made it out of T+A at 41 with hades aspect alive! bad news: died in styx after not getting great sack luck 
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/725449453816774736/20200624152435_1.jpg
zinc scarab
How many DD's did you go through to TD2?
daring hedge
TD2 ate two of them during T+A
i think the timer ran out when asterius was around 50% health
and theseus still at around 75%
zinc scarab
Yeah, i'm not incredibly surprised to hear
daring hedge
it's such a shame too, because the build felt like it should have been doing better
it's basically exactly what i wanted, and it still had trouble
tidal flame
Can you post the attempt vid still? If you have it.
daring hedge
yeah, i've found that serrated point is just better dps than normal pokes after the spin debuff
in most cases, anyways
yeah i can post the attempt fox
the way i lose the run is really embarrassing though, so be warned
zinc scarab
Man like, I want flurry jab on hades spear purely for the attack speed
but obviously that's impossible
daring hedge
exactly lol
that one time i made zag spear work at high heat was flurry jab zeus attack
it was great
daring hedge
yeah i'd think so too
i really dislike charged skewer with manual recall though
also looking back, the timer ran out a little later, and i actually lost a DD to a silly mistake, got hit by the chariot head-on because i got too greedy
zinc scarab
Yeah I'd imagine at the current point Hades spear is effectively Lvl. 0 spear with how bad spin attack is
fading star
Okay... so I just beat 44 heat Zag aspect twin fists. It was a close one; only had 10 hp left.
I feel like you can't strafe the skulls Dad launches like what @hallow stream was talking about earlier though. I tried and kept getting popped for it
hallow stream
the angle is ultra-specific
which is mostly why you don't want to
but worth noting it can be done, and is probably easier with higher base movespeed
well, not just the angle but the distance as well
fading star
Yeah, I didn't have anything but base movespeed and the skulls just locked onto me like little turd missiles
I think I as able to strafe the stabs pretty consistently though
It was about the mindset to stop attacking when needed
It's really about getting through Elysium though
That place I am still not entirely consistently able to defeat
zinc scarab
I found that elysium is consistently easier if I do things like god trials/etc. early on in tart and asphodel
then i pick up charon keepsake and stack items
fading star
So you aren't using your obal to purchase any boons?
I'm trying to figure out how you can afford a bunch of items unless you also aren't putting any points into Convenience Fee in your Pact of Punishment
autumn sable
Per request, spreadsheet for ultra high heat (40+) completions: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MYCL3AlvkXOqZUpBrqpv3utLMDayTnpF7wK9IGIFdN0/edit?usp=sharing
Sorry for the delay in response from me everyone. Been a busy day. I try to keep that updated and inclusive so if I’m missing stuff, please let me know.
zinc scarab
I buy one or two extra boons in tart/asphodel but typically i don't need much more than that to sell off. you only need to sell 3 in total
Of course I'm not the best person to listen to, as the highest heat i've done is 32
drowsy berry
Per request, spreadsheet for ultra high heat (40+) completions: https://docs.goo...
@autumn sable cool thanks, it is pinned!
torn vapor
Aw, look at you all! Tanning yourselves hehe~
torpid dune
Just a small question since I’m new here: is there anyone actively going for high heat pushes on Hell Mode?
mossy zinc
I've started a Hell mode save on the side for that, but I'm still pretty far from maxing the mirror and stuff.
hallow stream
not sure if there's any point in playing hell mode
they did make it a little nicer to play, but the base game is plenty challenging as it is
torpid dune
Well, the main thing is the lack of iFrames upon taking hits. Only way to bring it back is via Broken Spearpoint.
I’ve always wondered if that’s an interesting enough distinction for people running higher heat
hallow stream
it's semi-interesting, I guess. but as I said, we have yet to exhaust the challenge offered by the base game
zinc scarab
It's mostly just the fact that hell mode vs. high heat regular saves are practically the exact same, except for Personal Liability
hallow stream
on top of that, there aren't really enough people with a completed hell mode save to deal with it as a category. It'll obviously be a little more impressive due to the nature of Hell Mode, but from a classification standpoint it's a huge pain
zinc scarab
and most players aren't interested in fully restarting their game to unlock 1 single heat option
hallow stream
at the end of the day though, if you want to push Hell Mode heat, you should absolutely go for it
forest arch
What's that one single heat option?
that we unlock in hell mode?
And once we are just farming to unlock everything do we just farm the lowest heat for diamonds/titan bloods?
until we unlock everything?
hollow lynx
personal liability is the heat mode option (no invulnerability shield after massive damage)
tidal flame
No Mercy Invincibility
forest arch
oh lol
hollow lynx
you can't farm lowest heat for bounties, bosses will only give you darkness after you gain the bounties
forest arch
Yea I mean farm lowest tier for the diamond at the end
hollow lynx
you need to keep raising heat for more diamonds/blood/ambrosia
tidal flame
It took us a while to figure out what to call PL
forest arch
or is that really inneficient?
hollow lynx
a little
forest arch
ah so we should just keep going up in hell mode until we hit a brick wall I guess then
sorry wrong chat lol
hollow lynx
if you find yourself in an unwinnable run, you could always sell all of your boons and buy that diamond/blood
forest arch
There's a selling point before the Hades floor?
and after the 3rd floor?
what do you guys like to call it? worlds? floors?
hollow lynx
the in-between chamber before styx, and you can randomly find purging pools while in styx
forest arch
Styx is Hades world?
hollow lynx
yes
zinc scarab
They're referred to as "regions of hell" in game
mossy zinc
Regions or biomes.
torpid dune
I’ll try to push for high heat in Hell Mode then! I was just curious to see what the consensus was. I started playing again at a weird point when Hell Mode was introduced and I wasn’t attached to my previous save file.
forest arch
Hell mode just makes the start harder imo
torpid dune
I think I’m pushing at 22 heat across all weapons, so it’s a slow push since I’m doing an even push with each weapon
robust zephyr
whew just got saved by the stubborn defiance and athena defiance exploit
just got screwed with the satyr sack took 4 rooms and tight deadline was about to get me
mossy zinc
I really think that should be removed from the game, honestly. It's in no way intuitive and feels entirely like a bug rather than a feature.
hollow lynx
aside from the one hell mode-only heat, you can recreate most of hell mode in a regular run
torpid dune
I mean, that’s why I was trying to figure out how much harder the game is without the cushion of iFrames in high heat haha
hollow lynx
and you get to be more flexible anyways
robust zephyr
its really rng based
but hey if no one mentions it hopefully it doesnt get patched out
hollow lynx
devs read everything lol
robust zephyr
it really makes the difference between death defiance and stubborn for the final fight if you can get
hopefully they keep it as a 'feature' then
torpid dune
Well, they changed HM to be more flexible in terms of player build choice. At least compared to when HM was first introduced. Budget Cuts used to be mandatory haha
robust zephyr
or just make it so u dont have to lose your stubborn defiance if u get athena
hollow lynx
in making it more flexible, they're practically removed all difference from normal and hell
aside from that one heat option and starting 5 heat
mossy zinc
Why should SD get extra DDs from her boons but DD only get to replenish? It makes zero sense.
hollow lynx
(the latter you can recreate already)
mossy zinc
You can't turn off certain heat options in Hell Mode. So there's still a meaningful difference to some extent.
hollow lynx
true
torpid dune
True, but that’s why I asked in the first place, haha. How impactful is losing your iFrames during fights?
In high heat, that is
hollow lynx
i imagine one wrong move and you get completely decimated lol
forest arch
Do you guys just stick with the Ares boon with Chaos Shield till you get the special for it?
mossy zinc
Not that much. I guess it very occasionally saves a run for me.
forest arch
So just personal preference for keepsakes then?
mossy zinc
You usually die to a series of mistakes over time rather than one big mistake.
hollow lynx
instead of only somewhat decimated in normal mode
daring hedge
or you die to elysium being elysium
mossy zinc
Yeah, that lol.
torpid dune
Or that lol
torpid dune
I feel like Personal Liability makes it much easier to chain mistakes for sure. I sure am excited to getting punished once I push into 30+ heat 
haha
drowsy berry
@robust zephyr what is "whew just got saved by the stubborn defiance and athena defiance exploit"?
robust zephyr
oh no
torpid dune
Uh oh
drowsy berry
Oh yes.
robust zephyr
its been found out
hollow lynx
lmao
drowsy berry
👀
robust zephyr
my lifeline
mossy zinc
Do you guys just stick with the Ares boon with Chaos Shield till you get the special for it?
There's no real point in keeping a keepsake beyond the one time you can force the god. You get some rarity boost, but it's not worth it over other boons.
Well, explain yourself, cheater.
cedar spire
It's a feature not an exploit we swear Amir
daring hedge
lol
robust zephyr
you can get a free dd from athena if you lose your stubborn defiance before picking up once of those boons
pliz no nerf
drowsy berry
@cedar spire 👀
mossy zinc
Please fix.
robust zephyr
autumn sable
make it a featureeeee
drowsy berry
Does Athena's Defiance regenerate like a Stubborn Defiance when you do this?
robust zephyr
no
autumn sable
oh man, this high heat discord channel was a trap!
zinc scarab
Oh boy, amir is here with the patch hammer
drowsy berry
Right I see
hollow lynx
robust zephyr
i should have shut my mouth
daring hedge
high heat "strategies"
robust zephyr
:/
hollow lynx
i'm sure it was bound to get out sometime lmao
cedar spire
I think it has been there since the start of Nighty Night, must be a feature. Case closed.
drowsy berry
I...just wanted to convene all the strategists.
robust zephyr
oh yes its not but a bug but an exploit, see the game is working exactly as intended
zinc scarab
Definitely a trap channel
mossy zinc
Hey, it's not too bad. Back in Final Fantasy XI, people would get banned for using exploits like that lol.
robust zephyr
time to abuse the hell of it before it gets deleted
daring hedge
good thing i adamantly use triple DD always
mossy zinc
Same.
robust zephyr
its quite fair though i got dunked on by satyr rng and the game 'intentionally' makes up for it
zinc scarab
Is the bug that athena gives a DD even when using SD's or what?
mossy zinc
<--honest player, no cheatz
drowsy berry
@cedar spire is your 45 heat Lucifer run on YouTube? I am having trouble with the VOD from the spreadsheet.
robust zephyr
u get a free secondary dd if u pick up an athena dd boon after previously losing a SD
it has lowest priority so u can lose stubborn defiances before it gets used up
perfect for the hades fight
personally i like using stubborn defiance to circumvent lasting consequences heal penalty
mossy zinc
Inb4 Amir just wants to read our strats, so he can beat 40+, too.
zinc scarab
Oh, so athena dd boons give a dd if you're using sd and lost it already that room?
robust zephyr
yeah
i did not find this out myself not sure who had the honours of unveiling this 'feature'
zinc scarab
Got it, i always use SD to practice for higher heat, so i'll make sure to avoid that
mossy zinc
Very honorable, @zinc scarab. Unlike . . .
drowsy berry
To be clear, I am not sure if we will change anything there. I just wanted to understand it.
robust zephyr
inb4 it becomes a feature
hollow lynx
a reason to use stubborn defiance 👀
zinc scarab
It kinda sounds like Athena is giving sd runs the benefit her boon would give dd runs and sd runs at the same time, which seems pretty buggy
robust zephyr
i only recently started using it because i learned of how great it is in circumventing the heal penalty from lc
then i learn of this
autumn sable
@drowsy berry is the vod just not loading for you or is the timestamp not working?
mossy zinc
It makes those boons way stronger with SD than with DD.
drowsy berry
@autumn sable I am just having a lot of buffering issues with it. But I think it might be on my end.
autumn sable
Okay. Maybe this will be enough motivation for @cedar spire to not be lazy about his 45 heat youtube upload then 
zinc scarab
Unlikely.
tidal flame
What happened here o.O
autumn sable
@mossy zinc most of the completed runs don't actually feature the Athena DD
torn vapor
Aw, look at you! Amir likes to understand stuff!
mossy zinc
It was a joke.
robust zephyr
an 'entirely intentional' game mechanic has been found out
tidal flame
It's not really an exploit imo
autumn sable
i know, I was just pointing out it was not as prevalent as even I would assume
tidal flame
If anything it makes DD superior to SD
torn vapor
It'd be an exploit if the Athena Defiance replenished in every room.
daring hedge
@tidal flame put up the hades aspect 41 attempt that gets past elysium in #self-promotion btw
tidal flame
Ty love
torn vapor
I wouldn't call it an exploit then. At least that way, Athena's defiances boons won't be a waste while playing with SD.
robust zephyr
at that point why dont we just remove the sd charon well upgrade and just make kiss of styx work the same way. Thats really embracing the 'feature'.
mossy zinc
autumn sable
the Hades aspect king, at it again
tidal flame
He's a prince for now
autumn sable
he's a king
tidal flame
Didn't clear it yet, but made it further than most
autumn sable
in my heart
robust zephyr
hey maybe thats why hades gave up that spear
tidal flame
You might be up to something here
daring hedge
a 40 clear on last update is maybe sort of kingliness
trying to reclaim it at higher heat is hard ok
mossy zinc
Why don't you try 40 or 41 first instead of going up that high?
cedar spire
@drowsy berry @autumn sable I'll have to upload it soon for you boys then. Expedition in progress
mossy zinc
Let me see about that.
tidal flame
Uh huh
robust zephyr
what did you use before the fists were added
mossy zinc
Yeah, checks out. https://imgur.com/a/D6dx4wG
tidal flame
12 11 11 11 13 xD
daring hedge
the 8 rail next to fists is so funny lol
tidal flame
#h1-for-new-players is this way
mossy zinc
I don't remember if Guan Yu came before Malphon, but I used Hera and Guan Yu a lot early on.
robust zephyr
yep it came out before
mossy zinc
Spinning through pillars was fun.
honest kernel
Why hera and not Chiron?
tidal flame
Because Chiron is a bit unreliable imo
daring hedge
why not not chiron
mossy zinc
They were both Lv.1 or maybe Hera Lv.2 anyway lol.
tidal flame
You go Zag Bow like a normal person
honest kernel
Several people are typing
zinc scarab
but I used Hera and Guan Yu a lot early on.
@mossy zinc 16 and 23 uses respectively
robust zephyr
chirons pretty hard to get working with just about anything theres like only a few builds that work with it
mossy zinc
I've used them a few times since lol.
daring hedge
@tidal flame what's your opinion of rama btw
tidal flame
What did you clear your first run with?
daring hedge
i know you like bow
autumn sable
explosive+triple is hilarious though
robust zephyr
imagine if there was a chaos curse that halved your attack rate on top of that
daring hedge
lol, it at least got better since the early beta updates
autumn sable
on Rama
daring hedge
it used to be total molasses
robust zephyr
yeah definitely can feel the speed increase
zinc scarab
Yeah rama used to be a nightmare
It's in a pretty good place now, doing more damage than a perfect shot bow dash strike in the same amount of time
mossy zinc
I've posted my first clear before. Shatter Shot and Unhealthy Fixation. 💗 https://imgur.com/a/CxdpBEq
robust zephyr
it used to suffer from the guan yu syndrome where the special became the primary build simply because the other alternative seemed incomparable
tough cedar
absurdly average fixation
mossy zinc
I don't know what you're talking about. 👀
tough cedar
my first clear was spreadfire rail like a casul
daring hedge
oof
tidal flame
Triple Bomb here
tough cedar
i thought i was good, didnt even suspect that it was just broken
daring hedge
mine was back when lernie was the final boss, and i think it was with bow
robust zephyr
my first clear was hunting blades because when i started it was the build everyone talked about
tough cedar
somehow spear is my 2nd most played weapon... and it's the weapon i most despise
daring hedge
fox booting up the trusty 57 heat machine to die asap
zinc scarab
The first time I reached Hades was run 11 with zeus spear special
First time I won was run 29 with nemesis sword
tidal flame
Hey i made it to Lernie on 52 heat on bow
autumn sable
Fox gotta work on that 57 heat die%
tidal flame
It only took 28 mins xD
drowsy berry
Oops, I didn't realize Haelian was live when we were tagging him.
Oh wait, he's not.
Nevermind
cedar spire
Sounds like amir is struggling with twitch today
hallow stream
@mossy zinc yo, I'm live atm doing the hades fight practice - not sure if you're around at this hour, but if you want tosee some hades science swing by.
tidal flame
I ... don't think so
mild quarry
Twitch's update gives me navigation confusion still too Amir, gotta adjust to it. 
cedar spire
Hahaha I think because I'm hosting wriste? Not sure.
drowsy berry
Ahhh yes
zinc scarab
Wait, is Guan Yu actually pretty meta for max heat runs? It's the only thing with built in healing
mossy zinc
Max heat meta is to not get hit.
daring hedge
kind of offset by its healing not being the fastest during TD2 unless you get a chunky group and also not having much health with HL5 can be deadly anyways, so healing isn't much of a priority
robust zephyr
just git gud right
zinc scarab
That's a good point, my b
mossy zinc
Just have Olympian gold medalist reactions.
zinc scarab
Was thinking that despite the reduced max health, given the fact you have no DD's, healing becomes invaluable
robust zephyr
just dont die how easy
mossy zinc
We got the strategy down. Still working on the execution.
zinc scarab
I mean technically you can still get hit a bit
Given health increases also increase your current health
drowsy berry
@daring hedge that was a crazy 41-heat run. Did not expect the ending there...
daring hedge
it definitely caught me off guard so much that i wasn't even upset haha
sometimes you gotta get chunked by some heightened security 😔
wispy shard
heightened shrekurity
daring hedge
huh, shouldn't it still be there?
considering that's from the notes for the current patch, still
tough cedar
they must've removed in the most recent patch, a couple hours ago it was still there
drowsy berry
We did not do that intentionally, so please F10 if you have a case of that.
tidal flame
Oh will do
tidal flame
swat the bug
mossy zinc
Still can't tell thrusts from spins in time to i-frame both with any consistency with FO2 and 1 dash. Skulls are somewhere inbetween.
A second dash would alleviate all of that because I could just dash when I see any startup and time a second dash if I see it's a spin.
mossy zinc
Extreme Measures or no?
mossy zinc
Why? There's no rule on what to max.
iron mural
i always thought it was the easiest compared to others
mossy zinc
EM3 is a lot more difficult than EM2.
iron mural
more of my style i guess
and since im trying for 20+ gotta get used to it sooner or later
mossy zinc
I don't have great tips for the EM3 fight. I'm not good at it. I only really pick it for 40+, and I basically just burst through it with high DPS lol.
Plus, Divine Strike on Malphon handles Asterius very well for the most part.
honest charm
avoid glowing circles on the ground, and don't get shot
once you get those down you can always handle EM3
mossy zinc
In my opinion, the very first pact to learn if you want to push high heat eventually is TD2.
mossy zinc
Basically every single high heat run has TD2.
wispy shard
If you're just doing 32 for the statue, do you need it?
Me personally, I'll try for the statue and never touch high heat again
tribal eagle
you say that nya but I'm not using TD2 lol
mossy zinc
If you can't get the DPS to beat TD2 on low heat, you'll have a lot of trouble with 32+ either way.
tribal eagle
i'm also not good
but like
TD2 forces me to play in ways that go the opposite of how i usually do
mossy zinc
The faster you can push through enemy waves and boss phases, the less you have to deal with their attacks.
tribal eagle
FO2 is hard gameplay wise but doesn't feel as frustrating to me
TD just stresses me out
iron mural
might be time to chill and stick to 16
mossy zinc
I used to take 30~40 minutes for my runs lol. Sometimes more.
tribal eagle
I'd basically be trading out EM3 for TD1, and EM3 doesn't actively make the game unfun to play
iron mural
but before that i did 20 on shield iirc
i did feel that excalibur was great to play but i had other irl stuff to do so
mossy zinc
Where's the "please".
hallow stream
pls
mossy zinc
Nah, you gotta spell it out. No abbreviations.
wispy shard
🅱️lease
hallow stream
pppllllsssssszzzzzzzzzdurer
mossy zinc
I think your keys are stuck.
mossy zinc
It's missing a question mark.
hallow stream
I'll be sure to solve it on stream
tidal flame
can anyone consistently beat TD2 Elysium on say 25 heat?
if I don't get at least 2 free TD rooms in Elysium the result is usually death...
or am I just bad
mossy zinc
Well, I cleared that one on the first try.
tidal flame
I mean I can clear Elysium on TD2, but it seems to be a toss up 50/50 on whether or not I hit TD
mossy zinc
I also only had one Attack boon and nothing else for DPS.
If I build for damage, that's gonna be a lot faster.
tidal flame
yes but also no
you didn't have EM3
and your mini boss was buttlefly
I just feel like to clear Elysium that high consistently a certain amount of luck is warranted
mossy zinc
Yeah, why would I pick EM3 on 25 heat?
tidal flame
lol fair enough, but humor me
my last couple of runs I didn't have any duo, just a common attack and epic hunter dash, no free room
it was rough
i had to swapped down to td1 just to get through Elysium
mossy zinc
What Attack?
tidal flame
divine strike
on bow
and frost strike
but bow damage comes from the hunter dash should carry that through
i just wanted to know if people can confidently say they get past Elysium on 25 ish heat like >80% of the time.
mossy zinc
With Malphon, yes. With Coronacht, no idea.
tidal flame
hmm
mossy zinc
Hunter Dash is good, but you should also aim for Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike with Zag Aspect.
Those will give you the best numbers.
tidal flame
I mean I did a blind run, just happen to get hunter dash both times
had to equip shackle through asphodel
mossy zinc
Why?
mossy zinc
What does RNG have to do with having to pick the Shackle?
tidal flame
if I don't get offered an attack boon
i'll keep shackle
but Tartarus and Asphodel is not the problem
it's Elysium -.-
mossy zinc
You should be forcing a god in Asphodel to get an Attack boon if you don't have one yet.
tidal flame
I mean yeah, but also nah
tidal flame
I suppose I can force a god for Asphodel'
mossy zinc
You should also be filling up core boons asap with different gods from the one you want on Attack when you're not offered any Attack boon you want.
blissful rock
what's the best 8 heat combo?
mossy zinc
That way when you force that god, you're more likely to get the Attack.
hallow stream
routine inspection 4 @blissful rock
mossy zinc
@hallow stream no trolling lol.
tidal flame
what's the best 8 heat combo?
what's the weapon?
blissful rock
no idea, probably sword? I've yet to try the 4th aspect and I want to try it
mossy zinc
I don't think 8 heat is "high heat strategies", but I like TD2 and FO2 for 11 pretty free heat.
So any combination of those two that gives you 8 heat, perhaps.
blissful rock
it's not, but it's heat
mossy zinc
Benefits Package is hard.
mossy zinc
EM2 should be easy.
tidal flame
either BP1 or EM2, pending on your own strength
mossy zinc
I don't think TD2 is hard with Excalibur. Just put Heartbreak Flourish and Deadly Strike on it, and you're good to go.
Or even just Heartbreak Strike and nothing else.
tidal flame
well it's 8 heat
why take FO2 when you can chillax
just put the points elsewhere
and guarantee the clear
mossy zinc
You've said TD2 before lol. Yeah, I guess you don't need FO2.
tidal flame
tldr, my recommendation is CP1, BP1/EM2, FO1, TD1
tidal flame
Calisthenics Program xD
mossy zinc
Why CP with TD on low heat?
tidal flame
because excalibur don't care about your hp?
you overkill anyhow
it's weapon specific
mossy zinc
It slows down boss fights a lot.
Easier to just put that point into Convenience Fee.
But honestly, I don't think it matters very much at 8 high heat. I dunno, I'd just pick whatever I felt like at the moment and mess around lol.
tidal flame
to each their own, there is so much room to wiggle.
blissful rock
em1 fo1 td1 is enough for 8 heat
mossy zinc
That works.
blissful rock
em2*
mossy zinc
EM2 is fun with Excalibur because you can just put the aura on magma and walk over it lol.
tidal flame
actually though?
blissful rock
what keepsake?
tidal flame
shackle~~~~
mossy zinc
Eternal Rose.
tidal flame
Adamant Arrow
mossy zinc
Get Heartbreak Strike or Heartbreak Flourish.
tidal flame
Deadly Strike > Heartbreak Strike on Excalibur
mossy zinc
No lol.
mossy zinc
Lv.1 is fine.
tidal flame
Rose or Arrow both work. If you want to go with the flow take Shackle
blissful rock
lets go boys
tidal flame
glgl!
blissful rock
rare hearbreak strike or normal flourish?
blissful rock
I use boys as a non gender specific term
tidal flame
You are a menace
blissful rock
no, that doesn't make sense but who cares
mossy zinc
I do. 🔫
tidal flame
just go y'all like a good Southerner
tidal flame
Breaching
mossy zinc
It's 7:48.
zinc scarab
Not over here!
mossy zinc
It is, though.
blissful rock
do I buy anything in the well?
mossy zinc
Always 7:48.
tidal flame
The only timezone that matter is my timezone
blissful rock
nail
eye
trove tracker
tidal flame
no imo
blissful rock
I can also reroll
mossy zinc
Definitely no reroll.
tidal flame
I mean there is nothing you want specifically this early into the run 😄
zinc scarab
Yeah early on just look for boons/health/good and stock up
tidal flame
later you might want to look for nail, kiss, touch, etc.
early just save your money and bide your time
mossy zinc
You don't need to buy anything from the well. Just save your money for boons, poms, heart chambers. Enter Charon's Shop when you have about 300+ when you see it. Otherwise skip it.
300+ lets you buy 2 or 3 items.
zinc scarab
Also, I now realize what you mean Nyaa, and feel somewhat stupid
mossy zinc
If you need healing, spend money on healing.
blissful rock
oops
mossy zinc
Realize what I mean?
blissful rock
took a hit on the room I needed not to get hit on
zinc scarab
it's sundial time
mossy zinc
You are very wise.
mossy zinc
Humble, too.
blissful rock
mistral dash or reroll?
blissful rock
reroll or nah?
zinc scarab
Save your rerolls
mossy zinc
You want to keep your rerolls for when you want something specific.
zinc scarab
only use them to aggressively hunt for duos/legendaries
zinc scarab
Honestly fated persuasion is just so much lesser than fater authority
mossy zinc
Persuasion is great.
mossy zinc
It does a whole lot, though.
zinc scarab
+1 roll required per reroll?
mossy zinc
That's fine.
zinc scarab
Doesn't work on hammers even though hammers are affected by approval?
mossy zinc
But it works on shops, and shops are not affected by AP.
zinc scarab
Every time I've used it I've found myself disappointed. If I'm hunting certain boons I just keepsake and reroll room rewards
That's a good point actually
blissful rock
epic empty inside?
zinc scarab
I don't really buy from wells very much though, so that's just me
What is your source of weak?
blissful rock
attack
mossy zinc
What are the other options?
zinc scarab
life affirmation
mossy zinc
Life Affirmation.
blissful rock
do I switch keepsake?
zinc scarab
he's using excalibur
blissful rock
hmm
blissful rock
do I then reroll for whatever it is I'm going for?
mossy zinc
Could just run Chthonic Coin Purse and get some cash.
zinc scarab
I honestly would not bother rerolling this early
blissful rock
isn't coin purse start of escape only?
mossy zinc
Actually hmmm.
zinc scarab
wait until later in the run where you've secured the gods/boons you want and then consider rerolling to attempt to get duos/legendaries
tidal flame
just take shackle all the way thorugh
mossy zinc
Either Arrowhead and reroll for Deadly Flourish (only reroll once, though) or Overflowing Cup and reroll for Dionysus' Aid. That's probably what I would do.
tidal flame
like a real man
blissful rock
I'll go arrow then
tidal flame
should have gone arrow first for that sweet sweet crit with excalibur
don't spurn Artemis like that
mossy zinc
Deadly Strike needs a bit of work to beat other Attack boons. Heartbreak Strike just works.
torn vapor
Which heat level are they attempting?
mossy zinc
blissful rock
only 8
torn vapor
Ah, good luck! 🍀
tidal flame
8, no only
torn vapor
Big three?
mossy zinc
zinc scarab
big three by which i mean the big three discord users
hollow lynx
don't need a big speech
torn vapor
Oh...
hollow lynx
people love you peach
torn vapor
Is that so? I hope so. It's sad when you aren't loved. I try to make people feel loved too
bronze stratus
peach!
blissful rock
deadly flourish, epic
bronze stratus
huggg
tidal flame
yeee
mossy zinc
Yeah, get that.
torn vapor
Hey Dagger 
hollow lynx
i'd say y'all are the three heat experts :v
mossy zinc
Who is?
zinc scarab
i'd argue wriste, and tail are up there too in that case
nyaa used to be fist queen but well... 🤷
hollow lynx
there's other big names on this server i don't want to discredit
bronze stratus
well the server goes silent whenever I'm active...
tribal eagle
no it doesn't!
bronze stratus
in about 2.5 hours time
hollow lynx
like schpoon!
tidal flame
Several people are typing
tribal eagle
that's bc of time zones 😦
bronze stratus
yep
zinc scarab
the other big names don't speak up often enough to be counted
tidal flame
I'm up late just for y'all
bronze stratus
6k is on here pretty often
blissful rock
do I buy aphrodite boon from charon
torn vapor
Well... they are always changing who's on top and stuff, but it's good to keep competition healthy 🙂
tribal eagle
i'm here lots because I like thinking about the game and talking to y'all
bronze stratus
whatchu runnin?
zinc scarab
Sure, grab the aphro boon
blissful rock
unhealthy fixation, also got the thing that makes weak foes take 10% more damage
tidal flame
6kJ stream is fun 😄
blissful rock
like i got that one already
torn vapor
Sweet Surrender. That's a nice option.
blissful rock
now i can get fixation
tidal flame
people should drop by more often
torn vapor
You are also watching him, Foxy?!
mossy zinc
Haelian, Wriste13, Icebox, and Resqtoaster are the best Hades players on the server.
bronze stratus
sweet surrender is my favourite aphrodite boon that isn't an attack or special boon
tidal flame
p chill dude ❤️ yup, twice now
torn vapor
Why don't you come and chat with us?
zinc scarab
Honestly this discord server and the community participation from sgg are the two things that keep me the most interested in hades
bronze stratus
wait where do you guys stream?
zinc scarab
Wait, 6k is streaming?
tribal eagle
i stream on twitch sometimes
bronze stratus
tribal eagle
not rn
zinc scarab
Ah disappointed
hollow lynx
honestly after this update, this server has never been more positive, i love it
tidal flame
There is like one platform to stream xD
blissful rock
should I get fixation
mossy zinc
Yeah sure, get it.
tribal eagle
I won't stream for the next few days because i'll be at the coast 😦
bronze stratus
fixation is super nice
tidal flame
Why don't you come and chat with us?
I never saw you 😐
zinc scarab
Might as well pick up fixation, even if just to sell
Peach always has these super fancy emotes
torn vapor
Unhealthy Fixation with Arthur?
mossy zinc
Why would you sell a boon from Lady Aphrodite. You're evil.
tidal flame
Zag be seducing his enemies
zinc scarab
So nice when she drops them on people's comments as it makes it easy to piggyback with good emotes
Would sell worthless boons, regardless of gods
tidal flame
with his red green eyes
zinc scarab
Artemis included
blissful rock
alright, what keepsake now
torn vapor
Zag seduces with more than his eyes 
zinc scarab
You think Zag does the whole eyebrow wriggle thing?
tidal flame
Acorn
mossy zinc
If you're confident, Chthonic Coin Purse.
tidal flame
from Elysium onward
mossy zinc
Otherwise Evergreen Acorn.
zinc scarab
Where are you? Asphodel?
blissful rock
just killed bone hydra
zinc scarab
I love bone hourglass personally
blissful rock
lost 1 death defience, 2 left
bronze stratus
no biggie, just get kissed by styx
zinc scarab
As charon likes to say It's bone o' clock
tribal eagle
new hydra is so much fun
mossy zinc
Check the well before you pick a keepsake.
bronze stratus
I've only fought lernie once post patch
tribal eagle
it's so coooool
bronze stratus
seemed pretty chill
tidal flame
They fixed the unbreakable urn in Asphodel shop in the beta
but the unbreakable urn is back now
blissful rock
kiss
spindle
erebus
tribal eagle
the rubble circles are hard to see but that fight is amazing
tidal flame
literally unplayable
mossy zinc
Do you have money for the Kiss of Styx?
tribal eagle
erebus is the darkness right?
tribal eagle
uhh
zinc scarab
be free child
tidal flame
that's why you don't take CF on 8 heat, people
tribal eagle
me trying to remember what CF is: 
tidal flame
CrossFire
blissful rock
counter flakes
tidal flame
Convenience Fee 😄
zinc scarab
corn fees
tidal flame
Child Free
blissful rock
coin fowl
zinc scarab
cheese fiend
tribal eagle
ah
mossy zinc
Just buy the Kiss of Styx and grab either the Coin Purse or the Acorn. Either one is fine.
blissful rock
should I use sd instead of dd?
tribal eagle
I use DD
they're both viable
i'm also not great
but they're definitely both viable
tidal flame
The answer is depends
zinc scarab
Both are viable, I just always prefer SD to force myself to git gud
tribal eagle
at top heats its different i think?
mossy zinc
Coin Purse will help you a lot if you need any items from the shops in Elysium or Styx. Acorn will tank a lot of hits vs the Champions.
sly hound
Depends if are more confident in your room clears or your boss fights, I guess
tidal flame
and practicing SD is good
tidal flame
Coin Purse will help you a lot if you need any items from the shops in Elysium or Styx. Acorn will tank a lot of hits vs the Champions.
Until the chariot strips you bare in 1 second
bronze stratus
tribal eagle
SD is every room
sly hound
SD isn't worse, tho
blissful rock
double edge
hoarding slash
double nova
bronze stratus
It's worse for bosses
sly hound
Especially when you have -100% healing x)
tidal flame
if you have Lasting Consequences 4, you have 0 healing
blissful rock
what do I get
tribal eagle
yeah LC4 makes SD way better
tidal flame
but with SD you get 30% heal every room
mossy zinc
What Chariot? No Extreme Measures.
tidal flame
if you play well
bronze stratus
eeeeeeh
tidal flame
What Chariot? No Extreme Measures.
In general, you know what I mean 😄
bronze stratus
if I play well I can avoid most of the damage
tribal eagle
unironically alone EM2 theseus is harder than alone EM3 theseus
mossy zinc
Theseus without EM isn't hard.
blissful rock
drift dash or quick favor?
tribal eagle
nya you haven't seen me
mossy zinc
He does a very telegraphed spin or a very telegraphed spear throw.
tribal eagle
yes
tidal flame
if I play well I can avoid most of the damage
yeah but whatever little damage you take stay forever on LC4
torn vapor
Quick Favor is a favorite of mine.
tidal flame
which one is that?
blissful rock
epic drift dash btw
torn vapor
Your God Call meter fills automatically.
tidal flame
drift dash is bad imo
mossy zinc
What is the third one?
blissful rock
auto reload
zinc scarab
quick favor
tribal eagle
yeah drift dash is just ehhh
tribal eagle
the duo meter gen is so good with the hermes call boon btw
mossy zinc
What's Quick Favor?
blissful rock
hydralite or cyclops jerky? from patroclus
tribal eagle
perma huge dodge chance + move speed
blissful rock
already have full DD
tribal eagle
what's hp sit
blissful rock
120
torn vapor
What's Quick Favor?
@mossy zinc https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021448426749993/725613664484458497
blissful rock
/187
tidal flame
learn to read smh
tidal flame
what xD
bronze stratus
wait
blissful rock
demeter
bronze stratus
just take it anyway
zinc scarab
hydralite
mossy zinc
Yeah, Quick Favor.
blissful rock
hydralite or cyclops jerky? from patroclus
?
bronze stratus
also it feels soo good to use Arty call on theseus can I just say
blissful rock
alright
tidal flame
we should do a discord dictated run