h1-high-heat-strategies

[green prairie]

but ya, it really is a whole different game

like with higher heat u gotta move faster and stuff i think

not sure if it transfers that well, but its nice realizing i am way better at the game now

[south violet]

you have spent many hundred more hours playing the regular game than fresh file, I don't think that's a fair comparison. spend as much time playing ff as you did playing hades until your first 50 heat clear, and you'll have cleared ff at least once.

ff's whole thing is how much different it is from the full game

[oblique crane]

between 40 and 50 seems right... i didn't find it as hard as 50 but harder than 40, but i also haven't tried 40 with a sword

[south violet]

actually, 40 might be too low

42-/43-ish

[verbal atlas]

<@&456908176877551658> i do not feel comfortable like at all erm

[clever otter]

whats going on?

you can also submit tickets thru @finite turret if theres an issue that requires explaining

[worldly flicker]

...ah. the perils of slang terms having multiple meanings, i suspect.

[indigo stone]

<@&456908176877551658> this is an incredibly inappropriate message given the context please deal with it immediately

[frigid stratus]

i think it means cracked as in good

[clever otter]

i have no idea what the context is so please give us a moment

[indigo stone]

…

[honest kernel]

"Cracked" is a versatile Gen Z slang term primarily meaning someone is extremely skilled, impressive, or performing at a high level, often used in gaming ("cracked at Fortnite"). It can also describe someone as wild, crazy, or high-energy. Separately, the viral TikTok phrase "getting cracked" refers to having sex.

I'm too old for this lmao

[indigo stone]

Yeah considering the context and the 8 skull reacts I wonder which one everyone clearly understood it as 🤠

And the person they directly referred to said they are uncomfortable already

[solid flax]

We have followed up directly. If there are any other issues, please submit a ticket using @finite turret. Remember to follow all server rules listed here: #readme-first

[sly cove]

ok well the people asking have hundreds more hours in main game than ff too so its an apt point of comparison

[bleak grotto]

I just reacted because everyone else was reacting

[modern estuary]

Is there any way to mitigate lasting consequences 100%, like a boon that makes healing more effective, or is gaining max life the only way to do so?

[ivory drum]

guan yu healing gets around it

and quick recovery from hermes does as well

but other than that, no

[ashen garnet]

Cursed Slash and Draining Cutter Daedalus Hammers also work on LC4, but it's much more challenging to get enough sustain from them

[upper juniper]

Stubborn Defiance is like the #1 way to mitigate a lot of lasting consequences

[cursive portal]

Huh

I never heard of the last definition

[upper juniper]

As gen Z it’s only been around for ~a year and it’s not like you’re going to hear it pop up in an average conversation tbf

it’s not like 67 where 5 year olds are going to say it every 3 seconds

[cursive portal]

I'm also gen z just not around tweens

I'm not on tiktok so that's probably it

[upper juniper]

not being on tiktok is the right play

I unfortunately use instagram which is basically the same thing with significantly less of a filter ngl

[soft basin]

The main way is SD makes consequences 100 a non issue, the Athena dem Duo also doesn't care about lc

[sly cove]

gubborn goots...

[green prairie]

is Stubborn Defiance or Death Defiance better? I see some of you high heat players playing with stubborn defiance and -100% last consequences. Is this what is necessary to get really high heat?

[south violet]

it helps a bunch. if you know how to play the bosses with stubborn defiance, you are effectively playing 28 heat instead of 32 for most of the run.

regular death defiances work fine until around 32, maybe possibly 40 on some aspects if you really won't want to learn the fights, but after that (one niche exception aside), regular rooms get kinda hard

[sly cove]

only real reason to dd is if u suck at dad imo

but lc4 is the same heat as em4 and im p sure sd dad is easier than dds superdad

lc4 is kinda just free heat in comparison to a lot of other options

[green prairie]

hmm maybe i gotta start trying some 50 heat then with that aspect

[ashen garnet]

It's a high HL + Defensive keepsakes choice issue on top of the LC problem as late run fights can take a very long time, potentially inducing more hits which remove huge chunks of HPs out of the 250/300 expected maxHP

[green prairie]

i tried 2 runs at 50 heat with hestia. First time really using Stubborn Defiance. I have to say it's a lot different. I THINK i can do it though if I get a bit lucky

sort of wondering if i should keep starting with the shackle from sisyphus or maybe just try to get aphrodite attack

i think if i got aphro attack managed to pom it a bit and maybe got a good hammer i could do it

hardest part will likely be the heroes fight i think since im doing EM3

[verbal atlas]

shackle start and aph start are both valid starts on hestia

[green prairie]

im thinking if i were pro at the game, maybe i could do shackle to start and could win consistently with it. But if I'm just trying to get my first 50 heat... Maybe i can try to get lucky with the aphro attack. if i manage that, it frees up my keepsake and if im running stubborn defiance, I think acorn would be really beneficial for the elysium fight + hades

[verbal atlas]

acorn is the meta for high heat final 2 regions

the thing with shackle is that you’re still not keeping it for the entire run, it’s kept until you get a sufficient attack boon

[green prairie]

ah ok. I should level up my acorn then

maybe ill do a few quick low heat runs

[green prairie]

am i the only person here who has a really hard time dash striking with the hestia?

feels really difficult to do versus the other weapons like bow or sword or fists

[soft basin]

i dont really think about dash striking with hestia

just attack and reload in the same movement and dash right after, if you attack as soon as you can afterward the next attack should come out as a dash attack

[green prairie]

i see

it's kinda annoying tho it doesn't really tell me anywhere when i did a dash attack vs normal attack

[forest token]

if you have a buffed dash strike you can look at your damage number lmao

[soft basin]

And if you dont have a buff why would you need a dash strike

As far as i can tell there is no difference for the powershot

[sly cove]

i think hdash?

but like its whatever

i guess if u have delta chamber but if u have that then it doesnt rly make a difference if u dash strike or just regular strike after dashing cuz u have iframes either way

[soft basin]

oh can you start hestial the same way as rama

arti and both the attack and dash are viable

[forest token]

i wouldn't do that for heat lmao

but like in theory it wouldn't be the worst thing

[green prairie]

yeah i know that, sometimes though if i have multiple things buffing it, it can be hard to tell though. Undamaged foe buff/ares buffs/hydraulic power. A lot of those are on and off during an encounter and sometimes i can't tell

[green prairie]

i sometimes i end up getting a chaos buff

i practiced it a bit tho i think i kinda got the hang of it, so if i get a really good dash strike boon from chaos i could use it

[forest token]

i mean stand still and shoot vs a handful of attempts at dash striking would make it very clear

the only hard thing to notice would be like hydraulic might

but you can kinda like guesstimate given the %s

like you know the % for say fiery presence, if your dash strike buff is higher or lower than that then the next hit on the same enemy would reflect accordingly, even if it's a small amount

if it's the exact amount then it would still work lmao

[sly cove]

just run speedrun mod....

antivorime clutches 60% of all runs

[green prairie]

well it would be nice if it played a noise or something so i don't have to look for numbers/check it constantly and could just hear it, kinda like powershot or whatever how it plays a different noise. But i now kinda know what it looks like after trying it a bunch of times

[soft basin]

rama 51 making me crash out bruh

bruh furries is the largest roadblock lol

wwo rama can kill the stupid stone crushing guy when its int he air

based

[green prairie]

i guess that makes sense. I think i have had the doom curse kill those guys while they are in the air too

[green prairie]

is it easier to get some of the higher heats with hell mode on?

[verbal atlas]

yes, personal liability is also just considered pretty free/negligible in effect (at least to me idk i click buttons)

[green prairie]

man. maybe i should start my whole game over then : (

wish they would just let you click it on

[verbal atlas]

are you playing on pc?

bc if so the modpack lets you turn on and off hellmode in a give savefile

[green prairie]

I am playing on PC, yes

where do you get the modpack

[verbal atlas]

check speedrun.com under the resources tab and the speedrun modpack should be there 👍

[green prairie]

thanks!

ig its kinda only 1 extra heat tho

[quiet acorn]

doesnt it like instaphase furies

[mossy laurel]

what's the easiest build and pact of punishment to win 32 heat?

I am struggling with using twin fists

cannot attach photos of the pact of punishment

Hard Labour 1 (1 tick)
lasting consequences 1
Convenience Fee 1
Extreme measures 3 (3 tick)
benefit package 2
Middle Management- 1
Underworld custom- 1
Forced Overtime- 2
Damage control- 2
Tight deadline- 3

🤔

[bleak grotto]

Consult the Banana's guide in the pins here

[mossy laurel]

my run usually end at Theseus and Asterius boss fight

hmm

[forest token]

ngl the pact isn't like that bad tbh

it's pretty solid, but if you're dying to em3 a lot it could just be a practice issue

or dc2 is killing your time and making you rush through ely, but aspect dependent

[mossy laurel]

i am always up close, was using twin fist (15% dodge chance) though

was doing well until the EM3 sia

has zeus attack lighting and Epic Hermes, 30% attack speed buff plus divine dash

😡

not sure wheter to change to range weapon like Bow or Rail. Heard its alot easier than doing melee

[forest token]

I mean it would be but fists is doable

Using Demeter fists would give you more damage which would be more useful than 15% rng

Make sure you get static discharge from Zeus and pom that

Make sure your mirror is good

[mossy laurel]

hmm

attack 12 time to execute stronger special attack

mirror wise, I was using DD and stygian flash (not the fiery presence)

i used all 3 DD for EM3 and still lose

almost down theseus but the timer clocked out on me.

hard to catch up to him when he wheeling around on his chariot

🫠

[soft basin]

I'm bad

[green prairie]

best pact for hestia 50?

[green prairie]

what build are you trying to do with the fists?

i ran this #h1-victory-boasting message

i did zagreus aspect

and started with ares keepsake, then switched to athena for 2nd part

then i switched to hermes feather to have high dodge for last fight

i will say tho, u could probably drop EM4 and just spread it into a few other things

would make it easier i just like fighting EM4 sometimes

[quiet acorn]

With or without em4

[green prairie]

preferably without i would say

[quiet acorn]

Also with or without hell mode or modding

[green prairie]

no hell mode, no modding

[quiet acorn]

I forgot the site that let's u test different pacts

[green prairie]

feels so hard with approval process maxxed out

[quiet acorn]

Yea don't do that unmodded

[green prairie]

how does modded help with that? will it give me nicer boons or something?

[quiet acorn]

Modded mainly guarantees first boon and first hammer

[green prairie]

ah i see

[quiet acorn]

So you won't waste time resetting over and over

To get them

[green prairie]

yeah that is kinda what it feels like. I'm basically trying really hard to get something that works in the first zone then make it out alive. I feel like maybe the best thing to find would be the armor piercing hammer. Could help me a lot in Elysium

[quiet acorn]

Ricochet shot is what I go with

Piercing shot also good

[green prairie]

ya that helps a ton too

those are the two best probably

im wondering if there is some heat i could take to make it a lot easier. Damage control seems like it would be bad for hestia

[ashen garnet]

hadesheat(dot)onrender(dot)com, could be neat to pin it somewhere

[quiet acorn]

Thanks

[quiet acorn]

@clever otter could you

[upper juniper]

Speedrun modpack at least makes sure your runs get off the ground despite ap2

[mossy laurel]

for twin fist (15% dodge), I aim for zeus build

[hardy garden]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/913604520301457468/32d9dc1b-e8cf-4a1c-b192-0c76d31d01ea.png?ex=69ee1543&is=69ecc3c3&hm=e9fab9fdb36fbb98e01327a3428c648b633ec595a7b04af95e6e54f5fd31e6b6& flurry seeking best hestia hammers trust

[green prairie]

the last one i did i didn't even really have that great of stuff but i still made it to the satyr tunnels. was just so rushed tho

[hardy garden]

Usually demeter(aspect) fists is recommended. Zeus with jolted is good for consistency compared to me.

[green prairie]

wow nice run

[mossy laurel]

pact of punishment remain the same?

[hardy garden]

Seems fine

After getting jolted you can focus on getting like dio/zeus call + smair or rush delivery

[mossy laurel]

don't really like the underworld custom sia

have to find boon to sacrifice

[hardy garden]

You usually end up with a boon you dont want/need most regions anyways just gotta save a reroll. Could lower cf1 to 0 so you have more coin to buy random boons

[mossy laurel]

hmmm

do ya put heat on approval process?

[upper juniper]

not really

not before 40 heat at the lowest

like at level 1 it means that 1/3 of the time the boon/hammer/pom you want to take the most is just not an option

that’s a pretty massive consistency nerf

[mossy laurel]

if I max out approval process, I only need to play against Extreme Heroes 2 instead of 3

🤔

[hardy garden]

Definitely dont max it

[upper juniper]

Level 2 is two thirds of the time you won’t get what you want

[mossy laurel]

pure RNG KEK

[hardy garden]

Max ap is like a terrible experience

[mossy laurel]

i find EM3 tough to deal with sia

with force overtime 2 and tight deadline 3

[hardy garden]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779476888354816/907431325563256873/Hades_2021-11-08_16-42-23_Trim.mp4?ex=69ee0987&is=69ecb807&hm=04d63a0c7247e645d4dce44c3400bd8ad929304e25ee77f21ae941b7513e2a92&

[mossy laurel]

unless I use range weapon

[hardy garden]

Helps a lot to have a call. You get free iframes when you press call even with ones like zeus/dio

[mossy laurel]

call?

[upper juniper]

Like zeus aid/ dio aid

[mossy laurel]

ah

[hardy garden]

The bottom boon slot

[upper juniper]

The one that gets to pretend it’s a core boon

[ashen garnet]

Ptsd from the "1/900 chances" incident

[mossy laurel]

just died at EM3 with 1 min left to finish EM3 boss 💀

[sly cove]

em3 is way easier than even ap1

[sly cove]

do u have jury summons/calisthenics program

demfists are def better than zagfists too btw

[pearl basin]

mfw i just found out you only gods youve' seen before in shop

should have tried to read the ff guide before, can't believe i just learned that today

[upper juniper]

The ff clear does have a lot of weird quirks

[pearl basin]

huh is the shop pool thing ff only?

[upper juniper]

yep

[pearl basin]

oh thanks for clearing that up lol

[upper juniper]

🤔 you know what let me double check that

because “gods you have seen” and “gods you have taken boons from” aren’t the same thing

[upper juniper]

From a lot of early tart resets I’m fairly certain it’s an ff only thing

[pearl basin]

ive definitely gotten a first time in the run boon from shop before furies

but shrug maybe there's other stuff goin on

unrelated, but i quite don't like playing around the special on lucifer

is super soaker viable at 32 heat

[hardy garden]

Ig anything is viable at 32 if youre skilled enough. Super soaker kinda sucks until you get sea storm and luci special sucks without triple bomb. Tbh id just start tidal dash so you dont die to td. Or just reg zeus atk + jolted

[pearl basin]

big rip

[hardy garden]

Also if youre going for a duo dio/zeus call + smair would prob be better

[mossy laurel]

@forest token finally beat 32 heat using chiron bow with your guide. Thanks thanks 🫡

[forest token]

gamer

[mossy laurel]

imma done liao.

[mossy laurel]

ya can take a look at my victory table in #h1-victory-boasting, the last boss is tough sia with HL5 and FO1 plus hightened security 🫠

[primal wadi]

can I do 32 heat on a dodge build? yk with the fists and hermes feather, and possible hermes boons?

[upper juniper]

You can do 32 with practically any build there isn’t anything that forces a build-check

[primal wadi]

i cant seem to clear the room in the time limit that the feather gives

like its not even close

[upper juniper]

The problem with running plume is you sacrifice your build to use it

[mossy laurel]

died multiple times using fists on 32 heat then I switch to chiron bow and things got easier

[upper juniper]

Feasibly you need to hit like lightning strike or ares strike if you’re starting with plume

[primal wadi]

only other way i can think of getting a decent amount of dodge is by getting the hermes bow and leveling it up maybe

hermes boon*

[upper juniper]

You can’t level up hermes boons and the only way you can boost the rarity of a hermes boons after getting it is Eurydice

[mossy laurel]

if there is charon's shop room open, take that. I never take mini-boss room and double boon room unless there is no choice. Help to save more time

[upper juniper]

They’re more concerned with being able to scale plume by finishing rooms fast

rather than tight deadline

[mossy laurel]

The Elysisus battlefield tend to take up alot of time

*elysium

[primal wadi]

yea, the feather has some crazy expectations from me

ig, ill just have to keep doing runs until i get lucky and get ares or zeus

[mossy laurel]

equip with zeus accessory when u start the run

after u finish the boss fight with the sisters, change the accessory

[primal wadi]

i'll lost out on about close to 10-12% of dodge%, it gets harder to stack it in the later floors

[ashen garnet]

Also to note that plume proc timewindow sadly does not scale with anything, not even FO/JS/EM/MM/CP/DC/BP

[sly cove]

plume timing is rly lenient idk

[forest token]

yeah as long as you get zeus or ares attack you'll be fine

after that it's just mechanics and whether or not you can play well lmao

32 heat is still at a heat level where you can make a lot of things work, but the more unconventional the more you have to work for it ofc

dodge build is really only reliant on getting a good attack more or less

and some other way to deal damage like a call or something

[primal wadi]

what which punishments would u suggest?

[forest token]

one of the pacts in the guide pinned here

as long as you dont take any of the pacts that increase combat time like jury summons, damage control, or calisthenics program

and none of the build begone pacts like approval process and routine inspection

[primal wadi]

i got really lucky with my previous run, where it was aphrodite's call and poseidon's boiling point, so i was just farming

[forest token]

aprho call is not a damaging call realistically speaking lmao

[primal wadi]

i have level one jury summons for now cuz it feels managable with it

[primal wadi]

well at max it does 2500, plus the duo boon with posideon let me stack up levels on it fast with poms

[forest token]

zeus or dio call can do more damage using small calls

and they have aoe

much more useful in combat rooms where you're losing a lot of time

esp for your plume

[primal wadi]

hmm praying i get a ton of zeus then

[upper juniper]

Levels don’t affect the damage just the charm duration

and it’s just worse single-target damage than a 4 common lvl 1 dio minicalls except dio calls can hit multiple enemies, get loads of advantages from being used as minicalls, recharge themself with the residual damage of hangover stacks and get pommed up like crazy

[green prairie]

man just had a loss that i should have won. I started a 50 heat run and got really good stuff off the bat but realized I didn't change my mirror for it. but even then i still had a really good shot. I just felt rushed and ended up dying twice to the HEATed up traps in the satyr place. That was the other thing I meant to do the stubborn defiance and forgot to change it from death defiance. So i was running max lasting consequences with that. Still made it to hades tho but lost there. Would have easily had it if I hadn't stepped on those traps...

would have been my first 50 heat win

[ashen garnet]

Extremely classique setback, you'll get the 50 soon I believe

[green prairie]

i think i can too. I have made it pretty far a few times now. really think i'm at the point though where I'm not sure anything i can do with the pact is gonna help me

like if i take points from one thing, the other thing seems just as bad

really think if i could just play carefully i could beat it. But I don't have enough time to play carefully

and if i move points from Tight deadline to something else, it costs me more time and makes it more difficult

[hardy garden]

Yeah 50 heat be like that

[green prairie]

does anyone know if quick recovery is effected by lasting conseuqnces?

[verbal atlas]

it is not effected by LC

[green prairie]

Thank you

[green prairie]

o i forgot to update, i took it and still lost : (

[spark quest]

50 heat is making me hear VOs ive never heard before 😭

is there any guide for these obscene heat level

[upper juniper]

Have you at least read the 32 heat guide as a starting point

Lemme see if I can find the real high heat resources should take a minute

nevermind I checked the speedrunning resources for high heat and only found something for em4

[forest token]

tbh no bc at this point it's mostly just mechanics and rng

like build guides do kinda exist ish

well no guides for past 32 heat

the reason the 32 heat guide exists is bc i kept seeing people take horrid pacts, mirrors, and builds and say how long it took them to beat it

at 50 heat, you should know what your mirror does, take the least amount of horrid pacts bc you're forced to take some, and have an understanding of what your build should be

and after that it's just mechanics, which you can sorta get away with not having at 32 heat but not 50

[hardy garden]

50+ heat is where you realize you need to do the gitgud strat

Or pray for patty that works too

wait why are you going from 32 to 50

[upper juniper]

16 -> 32 -> 50 pipeline is real trust

[south violet]

Oh dear god please make a stop at 40 and 45

[forest token]

oh are they doing 32 to 50

so the guide for doing 32 heat is doing 40 heat first lmfao

45 is vaguely optional but kinda recommended so that's part of the guide too

[green prairie]

why does it help to do 40/45

i did some 40s

wasn't THAT bad tbh

but i am REALLY struggling with 50

[south violet]

to be able to spend longer than 5 seconds at a time learning enemy patterns without dying, and figuring out how consistent your build choices need to be

32 is anyheat because your build can always be really good, and can be done under most sets of restrictions just fine. 40 heat is anyheat but you need to sometimes enable a braincell, and can consistently be done on every aspect. 50 heat gets rough because of needing to enable at least one of RI2 AP2 or EM4, so most players try 45 or 46 first for practice, and then add whichever of these they are missing to get to 50 (and in the event they do em4 for 50, individually practice the em4 fight).

[green prairie]

i see yeah

i keep losing on 50 heat

and i often think, "wow, ~45 heat would be so much easier"

[south violet]

Should also be noted that not every aspect is born equal. Hestia is one of the easiest to learn at a basic level, and possibly the second- or third-most consistent one (after zeus and maybe rama), due to not really having a boon- or hammer-requirement at 50.

[green prairie]

i see

yeah maybe i could try learning one of those

it's just rough cause i feel like i often times don't have anything i actually want cause of AP2

plus less rerolls

[south violet]

May I see your pact

[green prairie]

i don't know if i can post images in here hang on

[south violet]

You can post them in some private channel in a server you own, then copy media link

[green prairie]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1498940261626150914/1498940279879766129/image.png?ex=69f2fc6b&is=69f1aaeb&hm=cbbee5aca46505df07cfab91c143598e51869913710d171699a95ca4e14a24bc&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1482&height=856

it worked, thanks

[south violet]

Ok yeah that's sane

[quiet acorn]

Wat

[forest token]

ah

i meant 50 heat is doing 40 heat

close enough

[quiet acorn]

Close enough

[green prairie]

yeah. I have had some really close calls. Like i actually think hades is the least of my worries here. I often die in elysium and a few times i've died in the rat tunnels. The rat tunnels most of my deaths are cause i feel like i don't have enough time and i'm trying to rush

[forest token]

bc you get an idea of how to play with all the horrid pacts at the same time, what your dps and damage taken is like at a slightly more realistic level bc like already said, you can kinda steam roll 32 heat but it's much harder to do that at 45

the difference btwn 40 and 50 is pretty steep as well, which is why 45 is generally recommended

namely speaking, ap2 and ri2 according to your pact lmfao

[green prairie]

yeah i guess ap2 and ri2 is 9 heat or so?

i feel like i am just hoping to get good enough stuff and then i can't mess it up. I have definitely had some good runs i could have won, but i think i am just frustrated and playing back to back to back so i have messed up more

but i think i will get it one of these times

[south violet]

Hestia doesn't need stuff outside of a lack of savior-enemies. More that it gets easier if you do get the right things

[south violet]

(When I was doing monodash 50 hestia winstreaking as consistency-practice for 59/60 heat hestia, I got a streak of 5 wins in a row at one point, with the 6th run getting speedersavior greatshielded. Hestia's problem is definitely not being needy)

[green prairie]

yeah i have found i have trouble with those sheild guys if they have a lot of special abilities

always unforunate to get a pack of the really fast skulls all emitting shields for each other

5 wins in a row is really good tho with 50 heat

[quiet acorn]

Dying in styx tunnels is very strange

With hestia?

[green prairie]

i guess maybe i should watch a video to see someone do it consistently

[quiet acorn]

Generally there's nothing you can actually do there ngl

Dead end

[green prairie]

yeah, i just made it to the last part with 5 minutes left, like the elysium boss went to over time. so i was rushing for my life thru the tunnels and i stepped on a trap

[quiet acorn]

5 minutes is enough for styx + hades no need to rush

Especially if hades isn't a problem like you said you could probably even afford 30+ secs overtime if it comes to that

[green prairie]

yeah im not too worried about that

i just gotta chill out

and not panic once im close

[quiet acorn]

Oh right, unmodded means no guaranteed 2sack

Mybad

[green prairie]

i feel like you have a good chance to get in 3 or less tho

which normally doesn't take long

[quiet acorn]

Yea

You do take the miniboss rooms first right

[green prairie]

u know, i was just about to ask that, what i should do there

ig i normally just look at what power ups i like lol

but was just thinking, i think the mini bosses might be faster in some cases than the room itself? I'm not sure tho

[quiet acorn]

Yes they're always faster

[green prairie]

ok, that makes sense

yeah i felt like i was stuck in one of the rooms forever and i was thinking afterwards, man the mini boss would be way faster

but i normally didn't have time problems there so i never thought of it much

also i think i should maybe go in shops more

just to save time

[quiet acorn]

Yes lmao

[sly cove]

shops are broken regardless

tbh

/free rooms in general

[south violet]

I'm actually not too shocked. It occasionally happened to me when doing 59, and more recently when throwing attempts at mirrorless boonpurger 50

Hestia doesn't have a good way to stun enemies outside of the occasional cast or special, so big rats and snakestones get much scarier than usual if you don't have the damage

[spark quest]

Losing my mind waiting for side quest proc so just doing random stuff for fun. I was just going to check what the pact looks like at 50 heat but decided to just ball. Asking guide for reference, just gonna try 32 heat max em on all weapons first. 32 isnt too bad so far its nice to practice ot 2

[quiet acorn]

Yea

[ashen garnet]

Unmodded tiny vermin enter the room 🐀

[ashen garnet]

Might want to give AP1+RI1 a try since Hestia is one of the less needy aspect: would help getting more interesting and impactful hammers/boons/poms (would help with getting stuff which completes Hestia weaknesses) at the expense of losing Dark Foresight and having a tighter economy

Also consider HellMode for 50 for the extra PL heat (it's possible to convert back and forth a save between HM and non-HM with mods)

[spark quest]

Is 40 like a reasonable limit if I just want to scale the game difficulty without too much rng. Like for someone not in the 99th percentile of skill or dont want to grind

I'll probably move on at 100 ish hour so just want to set some goal that doesnt take forever

[ashen garnet]

Might want to aim for a specific pact rather than an abstract heat number, also very dependant on your mirror/aspect of choice

Some conditions induce low to no rng: might want to aim for maximizing them and not activating the rng-heavy ones at all for instance

[spark quest]

I guess everything except the mirror and choice pacts. Is deadline 3 rng with all the other pacts cranked?

[ashen garnet]

BP2 can be very rng depending on the bp combo, very arguably CF2 and UC can induce a bit of randomness on economy management, TD3 can be very rough on some aspect/mirror/pact synergies and if the game decides to deliver too many "bad chambers" throughout the run (also not recommending it on unmodded since timing out because of sack RNG might happen)

[spark quest]

Informative, ty. The tunnels are certainly tilting on the clock 😅

[quiet acorn]

Not real

[runic wolf]

I received a challenge to do 40 heat on achilles, every condition maxed except for time at 7 minutes and convenience fee, benefits package, routine inspection, and approval process

my best is zeus shield at 32 heat

what casts would be best for this challenge?

I usually gravitate to ares or demeter but I’d like some tips to make sure I’m playing as best as I can

[upper juniper]

How is this only 40 heat lemme pull up the game rn

That sounds higher than 40

[runic wolf]

I dunno it is somehow

I have an image I can send to you

[upper juniper]

Sure

[shy plinth]

https://i.imgur.com/xecmQrO.png

This?

[runic wolf]

think so yeah

[shy plinth]

Why this particular pact, I'm curious

[runic wolf]

just a challenge

I’m not the one who chose it

[shy plinth]

I see

[runic wolf]

so, about that achilles

I love ares artemis duo but I don’t know if I could be playing… more efficiently?

I know artemis poseidon is really good

[south violet]

holy 47 heat difficulty pact

[upper juniper]

Start with tidal dash then nab your ares and artemis tbh

[runic wolf]

so poseidon keepsake into just pray for ares in tartarus?

[upper juniper]

You just need to find artemis or ares in tart then force the other for asphodel

[runic wolf]

alright

[shy plinth]

TD at 7 minutes here is so weird

[upper juniper]

I’d also recommend just reading the 32 heat guide pinned here since all the information is still just as relevant tbh

[runic wolf]

thanks

[pastel cipher]

Tight deadline at 7 minutes is literally free heat even with jury summons 3 I think

[shy plinth]

Yes, I am confused why we are not doing td3 so we can cut CP and a point over like DC or JS

[upper juniper]

their pact was made for them by someone else as a challenge as far as I can tell

[shy plinth]

Yeah, it's a pretty bizarre config lol

[modern estuary]

I've been doing what I thought was intended and using whatever bounty heat a weapon needs and I pick the weapon with the darkness hunger but I've still only gone up to 5 heat and it feels like I'm getting nowhere, what is the intended way to progress through getting higer heat levels?

[upper juniper]

there isn’t a way to fast-track your bounties

you can handle heat however you want and skip upwards though, the game will give you the rewards for your lowest uncompleted heat if you’re above it (so if you still need to complete 5 and do a 16 heat run, it’ll give you the rewards for 5)

[modern estuary]

I just do whatever the pact checklist says

1. Select #
2. Set Heat to [Bounty]
3. Escape using [Weapon]

and I'm wondering if that's not the intended way to do it

[upper juniper]

You aren’t doing anything wrong

[shy plinth]

To be clear:
-Heat you can set to whatever you want
-Bounty rewards go one at a time for each weapon, 1-20

If you want to do a 32 heat run, you can do that whenever you want - but there is no benefit to doing so and there is no faster way to earn all the bounties. You'll need to complete 21 runs per weapon to get all that titan blood

If you do all the prophecies etc you may not need all the bounty rewards to unlock everything

[bleak frost]

Id say jump through certain levels of heat tho, like I went from like 1-8 to 16 to 20 to 24 to 32 iirc, up to you tho, do what you want

[strong halo]

I personally do heat 1-20 to get at least decent at a weapon before attempting heat 32

but not everyone has the time to do this

[pastel cipher]

IIRC Calisthenics program also increases the health of bosses by a lot right? That might be bad if you have 5 minutes for tight deadline...

[strong halo]

it gives every enemy +30% health

so yeah, it's not a good time

better then mirror inspection, but not by much

[mossy laurel]

8 heat-> 16-> 24-> 32

[strong halo]

that doesn't give you a lot of runs to get used to the weapon

[upper juniper]

You get used to it in your numerous attempts at high and higher heats tbf

[forest token]

3 runs before 32 is prob fine enough tbh

[sly cove]

8->16->32

24 is fake

i think i literally went straight from 0 heat to 9 heat fail to 32 with spear lmao

[shy plinth]

I did 24 to learn FO2

[sly cove]

i learned fo2 by grinding speedruns...

[shy plinth]

That's probably smarter

[mossy laurel]

the jump from 24 to 32 is hard af

[cursive portal]

you just gotta know what pacts to put on

[strong halo]

it is hard for most people even with a good pact

but I agree that it can be made significantly easier with a good pact

[upper juniper]

They mean the jump from 24 -> 32 specifically isn’t that crazy of a jump

It’s really not a large difference

[sly cove]

16->32 is basically just +em3 +lc4/hl5

light work

[forest token]

That's a lot lmao

[green prairie]

ok i have kind of a noob question, it is something I should know by now but I just wanna ask: If I have Athena Dash, and I dash strike with a weapon, am I deflecting even during the attack?

[forest token]

I think so

i'm like fairly certain that dash striking with divine dash is incredibly safe, but i'd assume you'd still get hit from like the dash strike recovery?

[sly cove]

im pretty sure dash strikes count as deflecting

but hitbox might be weird or smth

[green prairie]

yeah i feel like when im doing it i barely get hit, but i never really thought it through fully

[strong halo]

just to be clear, the damage types that can be deflected is not the same as the damage types that can be dodged

so, yes, dash striking with athena gives you deflection, but since it's a dash strike, it removes the invincibility of your dash

it's still an amazing dash, but be careful, especially with merciful end

[pearl basin]

ME go brrrr

[strong halo]

I mentioned it because in the hades fight, there's a few moves that aren't deflectable that do a LOT of damage on higher heat, so going all out with dash striking can lead you to taking massive damage(looking at you em4 with lc4 and hl5)

I remember the circle swing isn't deflectable, the ground shockwaves aren't either, the vase puddles too and I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure the flame beams aren't deflectable also.

[green prairie]

well thanks for all the info. That is useful to know!

[soft basin]

bruhbrubruhbruhbr

i almost beat rama 51

but i took 2 pot hits

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-crash-out-angry-gif-15667791719891680630

[strong halo]

ouchie ouch

[green prairie]

what is a pot hit? like on hades?

[upper juniper]

Getting hit by Hades pots yeah

30 damage that becomes 150 when you have Heightened Security on

[strong halo]

don't i know it (I lost one of my first 32 heat runs to a pot break since I used to have HS in my pact of punishment)

Look, hades did his fire beam attack and broke a pot right next to the pillar I was hiding behind and I didn't have the space to dodge or dash away, also I was worse at the game than I am now

[soft basin]

gonna do some more rama 51

[soft basin]

died in ely

pretty decent run

[green prairie]

I feel like most of my runs end up losing in Ely or Tartarus at higher heat. I'm not sure if it's just the builds I do or weapons I choose, but I feel like those are SO MUCH harder than Asphodel

usually how it goes is I make it close to the end of Tartarus, but I have so little time by the time I get to the boss it's a mad rush. Like it feels kinda bad, cause if I'm careful I'm losing time (which can mean health), and if I'm reckless I'm losing health

so i often feel like I am trying to do that fight as fast as possible and avoiding damage is almost secondary

if i make it past tartarus at all, I always make it to lernie it seems. I seem to do well against him

elysium I often think my problem is usually the flame wheel mini carts+the shield guys. Like I could do it all, but at higher heat the problem is my time feels so short so I am rushing through it and often have to throw caution to the wind

and yeah I could try new pacts, but often times if you get rid of one thing, the problem doesn't go away. Like I could do less tight deadline and add to calisthetics and jury, but then it takes more time anyways

[green prairie]

i really feel like things at 40 heat for me start getting really tough and there isn't anyway around it. My 50 pacts I guess aren't that different than my 40, I just lose a ton of control over my build, maybe I could win on a 50 someday if I get really lucky

[forest token]

part of the reason why SD is preferred over DD, you get to play more aggressively for time

but also regardless that is kinda a common thing for tart

like either just long rooms or bad build

tart is a very long biome

same thing happens for ely, but you just have to hope you banked enough time in the prev biomes

[green prairie]

yeah i was fortunate in my last 40 heat victory in the sense i had some time starting elysium

im normally running out of time there

[green prairie]

i had actually not thought of this angle really. I should keep that in mind if i try 50 heat again

i wonder if its just better for me to do 40 first with all the weapons to just learn the game a bit more

[forest token]

personal preference depending how you feel about your current skill level tbh

the big difference btwn 40 and 50 is the lack of a good build basically

among other things ofc but that's the biggest thing

oh you felt like you were out of time in tart and ely bc you were using js3 and cp1 lmfao

you made the longest biomes much longer at 40 heat which wasn't necessary lmfao

[green prairie]

what should i have taken instead you think at 40?

[forest token]

lc4 for starters

hs would've been fine, i think that's normal at 40

im fine with ap1 personally at 40 but most people don't do that and take some level of js/cf for the missing heat

[sly cove]

does he know about elite speeder slugger chariots

[sly cove]

just drop js3 cp1 for lc4 js1 hs

i dont play hera so idk how annoying dc is for it

[forest token]

if i had to guess, not a good time lmao

[green prairie]

yeah DC would be annoying

[honest crypt]

my 40h hera pact is lc4 hl5 js2 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 ap1 td3

ap1 is honestly not that bad for me because hera works with a ton of boons so it doesn't matter much that I was denied a couple

[soft basin]

rama too hard bruh

[forest token]

rama moment

[south violet]

rama moment

[soft basin]

I might just go back to gambling with ap2

Too washed for the pact with js3

Most runs don't even make it to asph

[forest token]

still feel like you might not get out of tart with ap2 but gl with that lmfao

what heat are you doing again

[upper juniper]

Can’t beat 160% enemies because you’re too bad at the game can’t AP2 because your build is too weak for 100% of enemies

[soft basin]

51, normal mode

[soft basin]

threw a pretty good run to thesues second phase

[soft basin]

lol offered 3 epics on the first boon, no gods pride so thats pretty funny ig

[dawn aurora]

And then you get only commons on the boons you want for the rest of the run...

[echo fulcrum]

what is the best weapon and keepsake and also heat things for 32 heat?

[soft basin]

Idk

If only there was a pinned guide

[light coral]

I can't get past 10 heat consistently. My best is 14 and I think that I was just lucky despite dying just once. I always go for EM3 and already have tried all options for gaining heat. Nothing clicks for me? idk there is just not enough damage to struggle thru alysium sometimes. Is this a skill issue or 10-13 heat is a major milestone? Cuz until that I had 3/4 runs being successful

[upper juniper]

There’s nothing really significant about that heat range

[light coral]

Well then
I just got skill issue'd

[upper juniper]

This early in the game you still have loads of room for growth and it’s probably a combination of things

poor pact / mirror / building skills / combat skills / decision making at doors could all be at play

[upper juniper]

Elysium is always a big build check tbh

It might be best to focus on what you’re aiming for with a given aspect

[light coral]

Ouch I got warned for profanity and I don't even know why

Sorry there was a lot of text
tldr
I like meme builds, meme builds bad

[upper juniper]

like how memey are we talking

they aren’t all that trash

[light coral]

I like dionysus cast A LOT

[upper juniper]

ah

[light coral]

And I play with stygian soul most of the times so chaos +1 cast is must-have

I had a time with 5 big hot loads on top on the rail with cluster bomb
Didn't even need to shoot that much

Idk if this is off topic but
Is cast 90% utility? It's not meant for damage really. Boiling blood and status effects it is. Well mb ares and dio are exceptions and I like damaging casts for some reason. Should I try hades 2 if I'm more into magick things? :)

And what in the world is demeter's cast?

[upper juniper]

like

casts are pretty solid on castpects and otherwise pretty much just utility

even on castpects, a given castpect only really cares about 1-2 maybe 3

[upper juniper]

It’s lowkey just a turret

[light coral]

Almost stationary
I don't want my cast to be useless untill I find other specific duo boon

[upper juniper]

I think

Eh

[light coral]

eh it is

[upper juniper]

a lot of the best cast builds do revolve around a given duo

dio and crush burst Hera are the one that don’t

[light coral]

Whyy

[upper juniper]

but it’s not like your slicing shot or your lightning phalanx is useless until you get the duo it just gets far better

they also always have a good way to support themselves until the hit the duos

and beyond

[upper juniper]

a lot of the casts just aren’t that good at base? and the duos just elevate them like crazy

[upper juniper]

I think Hades 2 is more magicky but I lowkey stuck with H1 and haven’t bought it yet I like H1 too much

[light coral]

I have a dream
Dio cast + zeus + demeter
artemis twin shot and legendary
A couple of chaos +1 cast
But it requires 5 gods so I would e to scam game with keepsakes
And with enormous ammount of luck I maybe would be able to make Drunken Cannon my beloved

sry i got lil bit carried away

[upper juniper]

Dio cast is literally rng incarnate

It’s the one cast that doesn’t need duos yet it probably has more rng involved than all of them just because of how much it needs because you need cast stones and you want to hit the duos and well some cast damage would be nice

[light coral]

So you just described FUN for me lol
I need to be more serious about my builds if I want to hit 32 eventually

[upper juniper]

I just

I have a bone to pick with dio cast builds

You can absolutely hit 32 with dio cast you might just need to be smarter about everything else

we can start with the easy stuff

What does your mirror look like rn

[light coral]

sec

[upper juniper]

Oh you’re going to need to send it as a image link/ embedded image

[light coral]

There is dm for that

[upper juniper]

you could just send it to me

The bot I’d usually recommend isn’t here anymore

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1503571314328342538/1503571337711718500/image.png?ex=6a03d56d&is=6a0283ed&hm=ff170ce8d0b05c3040862c445811268b822b8b43c3d2bc1265b3316dbe7e0979&

k so that’s your mirror

overall

pretty solid

dark regen is the only glaring thing

Legacy Vs Pride I’d normally say you should be using pride but I’m assuming you’re aiming for the trippy shot duos and maybe mirage shot / fully loaded

[upper juniper]

It’s just not that effective when you already have a fountain after boss fights and get pitiful amounts of hp from darkness chamber rewards

cthonic is always working and pops off in styx where dark regen can’t

[light coral]

It's common for me to die to satyrs so on my second run I have free full hp heals on all 3 bosses and manage to save dd/money

So dark regen for me I guess

I don't have enough skill to no-damage bosses yet
At least I don't die to them as often as I used to

3 hp per chamber is just not enough especially in elysium

[upper juniper]

compared to nothing per chamber?

[light coral]

Pride is fine but usually I can catch up to the rarity with just poms and with MOM's keepsake in asphodel

[upper juniper]

dark foresight already heavily reduces your darkness rooms so it’s pretty much only popping off on boss fights where fountains heal a good chunk and you’re using trippy shot so I imagine strong drink pops up on a decent amount of runs

[light coral]

Yeah you have a point

[upper juniper]

eh missing the rarity on chaos and hermes who are unpommable is pretty :(

and you could be taking a defensive keepsake into elysium instead

collar maybe shattered spear point to deal with the average room, acorn for the boss fight

I think Legacy is a valid option I just really tend towards Pride

[upper juniper]

What aspect(s) are you running this build on

[light coral]

Hera rail
dio + aphrodite + zeus core

nemesis blade
merciful end build or artemis + dio build

That's my favorites
rail is obviously a lot more funny

[upper juniper]

Hera rail? Do you mean hestia rail or hera bow

[light coral]

No no no

I got confused

eris rail

the bomb yourself one

[upper juniper]

That one should be pretty solid

It’s conventional eris with trippy shot thrown on

And the merciful end nem is pretty solid

crit nem is too but it’d be a first for me hearing of an artemis/dio build on it

[light coral]

well idk about how crit chance works rly :)

i have 30% after special

[upper juniper]

It just adds

[light coral]

Yeah

So I was right

It's
30%+20%+8*1.5% = 62 crit chance

With just low tolerance and art+dio duo

[upper juniper]

”just 2 duos”

57% arte strike is +15

[light coral]

I like duos a lot

[light coral]

oh

[upper juniper]

Where are you sourcing hangover stacks from? dash?

I can imagine this having pretty mid damage if you can’t get a solid hammer and chaos strike additive

[light coral]

I tried this 1 or 2 times so it's just a theory

ME are my go to

With divine dash

And I like sword move set

[upper juniper]

Alr

neither of your main builds are particularly bad

Merciful End is really strong and you’re playing Eris with some extra steps

They should be doing solid damage to take you through elysium

So maybe it’s a pact issue

[light coral]

I think I rely too much on my standart build
With bad(not even that bad) rng I'm falling behind
Before 10 heat I was able to beat the game with just mechanical skill even with bad build

I think I shouldn't rely so heavily on the my desired build

I need to learn more and be i lil bit more serious about it :)

[upper juniper]

are you trying to just force trippy shot on any given weapon over a regular build

[light coral]

maybe

[upper juniper]

You should probably keep trippy to it’s best aspects (achilles/beowulf/hera) and try some more conventional builds on regular aspects

[twilit portal]

Hey guys, I’m fairly new here, but I’ve been working up the higher heat levels and I’m wondering if anyone has made any serious pushes for heat records on certain aspects lately?

[upper juniper]

Not that’s been put in for verification or passed recently, I’m not quite caught up on recent high heat drama though

I know a few people pushing for their own 64 with the weapons that already have

[twilit portal]

Nice! Does that include Guan Yu and Eris? I see that PlayAd had some 61 heat unseeded wins (minus 1 approval process) on his channel as well as 64 heat seeded wins so it looks like at his skill level it would be a matter of getting enough resets in for the needed luck.

[forest token]

The 64 runs aren't seeded, they're just using mods to smooth out rng for viable runs

But most people use Zeus shield bc it's the easiest

Afaik anyways

Unless they specifically want to use guan Yu or eris, but most people are generally just going for the number rather than the method

[twilit portal]

My bad, I meant to say modded sorry lol.

I know people push higher heats on multiple weapons. I was just wondering if any other viable combinations have been worked out, that’s all.

[south violet]

playad has done 64 unmodded on rama, and modded on eris and gy

so unmodded it's zeus and rama that have cleared max, and modded there's zeus, rama, eris, gy

if there is to be another aspect to join these four, it would probably be one of zagrail, zagshield (/ chaos as bad zagshield) imo. technically mysterra has done a 62 chaos that never loses stubborn defiance which makes it functionally equivalent to a chaos (and hence also zagshield) 64, but no-one has gone and grinded out 64 on any other aspects with the goal of clearing.

[sly cove]

dude

i just had a cursed as run

32 heat no em3 dds lc4

and i made it to p2 dad

but i died

cuz im bad

i somehow kept a dd going into dad so ig i wouldv died with sd too

(i got pat refill in ely)

[soft basin]

Rama 51 still miserable bruh

Maybe I should try modded

[forest token]

are you doing ap2

bc if so then yeah modded makes that much less miserable

if not ap2 then getting a guaranteed good hammer also makes it less miserable

[soft basin]

installing mods is so easy

is the blue thing on the room door indicating a fountain room

omg you respawn in the courtyard

[verbal atlas]

yes blue glow = fountain

[soft basin]

lol the modpack disables the codex thanatos trick it seems

wow thats hilarious

forced exposive shot in ely

[soft basin]

i beat it lol

garenteeing the starting hammer and boon is really strong turns out (shocker)

also got pretty lucky

this means i will also be able to do sword and athena spin attenpts without it being super annoying wow

[south violet]

codextech is banned

[ivory drum]

more accurately, the modpack disables the ability to open the codex while the timer is running

so it stops codex tech and the than tech

[forest token]

You can do the same thing with menus (boons and poms) so it's not like completely gone

But if you don't get a menu gl buddy lmao

[ivory drum]

Getting than to not piss off in some corner is truly the most difficult skill to learn in this game

[sly cove]

codextech is stupid but i liked than tech 🥀

[junior sun]

just did a 32 heat and died in the first phase against hades i was using arthur :P
(Edit) Did another run and beat Hades at 32 heat!!!! [Arthur is goated]

[soft basin]

arthur is a bit cheeks

[midnight peak]

how do aspects that give you free bonus damage do in high heats?
my best is only 2 heat maxed calisthenics with aspects of eris and talos so i’m still pretty low but i have pretty smooth clears with them even with max enemy hp

[shy plinth]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "free bonus damage"

[midnight peak]

like

[shy plinth]

I will note that calisthenics program is one of the worst pacts to take

[midnight peak]

absorb special for eris

[shy plinth]

It is a huge increase to enemy health pools for a pretty low amount of heat

[midnight peak]

75% bonus damage for 4 seconds

and i’m using my special often anyways

[shy plinth]

Eris is a strong aspect

[midnight peak]

so it’s basically free is what i mean

same with talos i get bonus damage on magnetized enemies

and magnetizing them is something i would do anyways

[shy plinth]

I don't think there's a specific metric here to determine an aspect as "good" or "bad" - eris is one of the strongest and talos is generally viewed as weaker at high heats

But while you're on your heat climb you can pretty much do anything and that's true up to 32 and even a little beyond

40+ is where you really notice the diminishing returns of certain aspects

Basically you can break down every pact option in one of two ways - pacts that put pressure on your build and pacts that put pressure on your play. Up until mid 30s, you can get by almost entirely with play pressure pacts and just execute better

40+ you have to start putting pressure on both and the path to victory narrows

Calisthenics program is an example of a pact where you kinda put pressure on both just by itself - you need a stronger build to keep up with a massive increase in enemy health AND you spend more time with each enemy, requiring improved execution

It's pretty punishing and you can generally find better options for the couple points it offers

I'd recommend checking the pinned guides - Bananas has a marvelous 32 heat guide and I have a pinned chart with my recommended heat progression as you're learning the game

[midnight peak]

oof ok well it’ll be nice to ease off the extra 30% hp going forward

ty for the help i’ll check out the guides

[shy plinth]

Keep in mind that at low heats, you can do what you want - it's not that your selection is wrong, just that it's comparatively harder than other choices

[green prairie]

funny enough, I also did calisthenics program for my first heat run or two. I think more enemies sounds scarier, but if you have a good build you are just chopping them down ez

so i prefer jury summons

calisthenics program makes the bosses much harder

[south violet]

think of it like this: CP2 means your build is 30% worse with nothing you can do about it. JS2 means you need to play 40% better in non-boss chambers. One would rather pick the option that can have reduced effects with good play rather than the option that's an incompressible 30% timeloss and 30% difficulty increase on everything.

[shy plinth]

Yeah

Calisthenics Program 2 gives Hades an extra 5k health per health bar or an extra 10k health total

This is roughly equivalent to adding Theseus into the fight

[south violet]

(except you cannot hit both at once)

[shy plinth]

Yes

[midnight peak]

ok yeah that tracks
and just when i’d gotten used to it too

gonna try js since it had been pretty easy to manage in hades 2

[upper juniper]

Why would you run either so early

[midnight peak]

i got wrecked on vow of pain last time i tried it
i found tight deadline intimidating even though i’ve found i can definitely clear each location in under 9 minutes

died to asterius not even theseus

before i’d knocked either of them out and i usually target asterius first

and i do enough damage as is that i was ok with buffing enemy hp

[shy plinth]

Tight deadline is less intimidating after you get used to it

The 9 minute one is actually free

[midnight peak]

yeah my slowest run was like 37 minutes or something

and that was bc i kept getting screwed on rng in styx

[shy plinth]

Silly question, have you watched any high heat runs from more experienced players?

It can help to get an idea of how they play so you can see what they do that you may not

[midnight peak]

no for spoiler reasons i’m trying to avoid later-game stuff

i’m super invested in the story and so i’m ok with missing out on better strats if it keeps me sheltered from spoilers

i like learning strategy trial and error style

with help from the community like you guys

i haven’t even gotten a credits roll

[shy plinth]

Ah ok, you have time then

[upper juniper]

It’s genuinely so much time especially as you play more tbh like you don’t even lose when you run out of time so you should be fine

[green prairie]

i remember when I did my first heat runs just 6 weeks ago or so I was like "wow, it would be insane to beat each zone in under 9 minutes". I'm at a place right now though where 7 feels like tons of time, but 5 feels rushed. But I still can manage 5

[upper juniper]

Say the guy who did like 0 -> 50 heat in like 6 weeks

[forest token]

Also want to comment that even tho a good handful of aspects have "free" damage boosts, not all are created equally and some are less free than others lmao

Namely Talos, but also like hades spear

Having to debuff an enemy compared to buffing yourself takes a lot more time bc you have to do it to every enemy

Talos special animation is longer so you're stuck for longer, not to mention that fist special isn't used much outside of specific known breakpoints (that can get ruined bc of Talos gimmick) and Demeter aspect
Hades spear you're forced to spin, leaving you vulnerable without proper hammers/play (and locks you out of flurry jab, a really good hammer)

And then you compare that to eris or Achilles, where you just use your special and you yourself deal a lot more damage to everyone in the room with a super easy upkeep that you're doing anyways

[south violet]

I do think talos gets smacktalked a bit too much for heat. very safe aspect, not too needy, a few more build-options than zagfists; its problem is having this build deal damage to keep up with td3.

[forest token]

Isn't it like a very specific build with heavy knucle

[south violet]

that's scratch meta. we all know those strats tend to be a bit unconventional

the usual zapfists / fds still works

[forest token]

Oh lmao

What are the other build options then compared to zag fists

[south violet]

can build off the cast slightly more

[forest token]

Ah that makes sense

[ashen garnet]

Heavy + Zeus atk (+/- hunting for jolted) is defo a great basis for any high-heat Talos run, but it's primarily tailored for 55+ pact restrictions (55+ Tartarus TD3 particularly)

You almost never want to use the full special because the whole animation is very slow and committal compared to other fists.
On the other hand, the magnetic cutter part of the special is almost instantaneous and can be cancelled with a well-timed dash, allowing to either get extra mono-target reach or create safe spots for zag to navigate through chambers while still being a great DC stripper (should also evoke the magnetic buff, but it only applies to casts -which requires pacts/builds with low/no RI- and to the regular attack which has v low dps unless Heavy Knuckle-ing)

[twilit portal]

Hey guys! been practicing at 32 and 40 heat with a couple clears here and there.. I JUST enabled EM4 and it’s like my only roadblock at 32 heat at the moment. My run could be going smooth as hell and then that fight wallops me on third phase. Is it recommended to drop the heat a bit to more consistently get to that fight and just practice the moveset for a bit?

[upper juniper]

Em4 is just overkill till like 50

is my recommendation

If you really want to use it and you aren’t used to the moveset then yes drop the heat so you can actually get practice in

[twilit portal]

lol yea certainly seems that way for sure. Guess I just wanted to start getting used to dealing with it.

[upper juniper]

I’d definitely keep anything that changes the fight when you step down the heat to practice then like bp2 or mm or FO2

If you’re running them already

[twilit portal]

Does BP change the EM4 fight? I had no idea. Yea I have both those modifiers on. BP2 and FO2. I think I might have dropped to FO1 when I enabled EM4, but I’m not at my computer to check right now lol

[upper juniper]

I can’t remember tbh

I’m speed player first and foremost I haven’t used em4 in like

500 runs

I thought it did because the minibosses are armoured but it might just be mm

[soft basin]

To practise em4 I recommend turning off everything aside from labor 5 and fo2

See if you can take it down with full build consistency

If you are feeling confident throw in lc4

Eventually a level or two of ri and a level of ap

[twilit portal]

Awesome, I’ll try that when I get home later. Thanks so much both of you!

[upper juniper]

ri is a another one you can probably hold off on adding until like 45-50 tbh

[twilit portal]

I’m currently on TD2, should I drop that too?

The timer is almost never an issue normally but EM4 is a LONG fight

[soft basin]

Td3 is very free for the most part

But yes it can be a bit tight with em4 even at like 40heat

[upper juniper]

Aim for TD3

[twilit portal]

Last question.. at what heat should I consider submitting to the high heat leaderboard? Is it still being maintained?

[south violet]

no EM4 is unaffected by BP and MM

[upper juniper]

I’d say 50

I think that’s the lowest I’ve seen on it

And yeah it’s still maintained

Nevermind

Double checked and 32s are on thee

[twilit portal]

When I work up to 50 I’ll have to look into recording or streaming or something.

[shy plinth]

Which leaderboard?

[twilit portal]

I didn’t expect the jump from 32 to 40 to be so large. Though I did run RI1 and AP1 so I probably made it harder than I had to.

[shy plinth]

Wayyyyy harder

Generally the advice for 32 is to pick one of FO2 or HL5. For 40 you usually just do both and then close the gap with things like CF and maybe a little JS or DC (weapon dependent)

[upper juniper]

unmodded

[shy plinth]

Is that the one pinned in here?

I own that sheet, I can maintain it lol

[upper juniper]

I just open them from google sheets on my phone tbh idk

I think both are pinned

modded and scroll farther for unmodded

[shy plinth]

Yeah I made both of those sheets

I don't know how often people submit, but they should still function

[twilit portal]

Yea I was just trying to see how it affected the difficulty mostly. I kinda jumped up in heat really fast and I don’t have a lot of the aspects upgraded so I’ve been experimenting with how the modifiers feel mostly. Using them as a means to improve and prepare for higher levels, if that makes sense. That’s why I turned on EM4 but it’s pretty intense so I’m stepping back on other mods for it.

[shy plinth]

Ye

EM4, RI of any level, and CP of any level aren't worth taking until much later

AP right behind those

[twilit portal]

Yea for real. That being said, is it not worth getting the practice in early?

At least on the boss fight.

[shy plinth]

Really depends how far up the heats you're planning on going

[twilit portal]

As high as I can lol. Hopefully into the mid-late fifties.

[shy plinth]

Hrm

I think it would still be more valuable to get practice on more typical 40s and actually get some clears so you understand what success looks and feels like

Otherwise I'd worry that you're learning too much at once and introducing too much noise into your understanding of what a good path feels like

[twilit portal]

That’s a very good point.

[shy plinth]

EM4 would be good to learn on top of a stable successful pact

[twilit portal]

About when would you say it becomes worth enabling EM4? Mid 40s? 50?

[shy plinth]

This is probably a question for people with more experience at that level than me, but I'd personally be surprised to see it in a pact that was <50

And most of the 50s on the modded leaderboard do not use em4

[twilit portal]

Thanks for all the feedback dude, this is helpful info/advice.

[shy plinth]

Glad to help! And there are actual good players in here too that will be able to give lots of advice from lived experience

[forest token]

I'd recommend it on top of the standard 40 pact bc at 40 you more or less have taken every pact that buffs enemies except CP and nothing that debuffs you except maybe cf

Granted you will need a lot of practice learning the em4 fight for that but it'll be the most realistic for higher heats like mid 50s

Imo at least I don't do em4 lmao

[shy plinth]

A few people do it and it feels like it is a distinct choice that makes their runs stand out

Frei's been doing a lot of EM4 enabled runs and Retrash used to do exclusively EM4

[forest token]

Yeah I can see em4 being fun if you like the challenge

I do think at 32 heat tho it kinda doesn't teach you much bc you lowkey can just blow him up still lmao

[shy plinth]

If you plan on keeping it on you can at least adapt to his moveset I guess

[twilit portal]

This is true, doing the fight without FO2 or HL5 wouldn’t really prepare you for higher heats.

[shy plinth]

The main thing that really stands out to me about 50+ is that you kinda don't get to play with boons

It's way harder to get anything focused online so you have to make do with patchwork builds

[twilit portal]

Yea I got a taste of that running a combo of RI1, AP1, CF2, and UC lol

[forest token]

UC is fine why'd you do everything else lmfao

[twilit portal]

Ive swapped off RI and AP but I’ve kept UC and I’m playing around with different levels of CF

[forest token]

At 32

Yeah that's reasonable

[twilit portal]

Not 32. I’ve been running 40

[forest token]

Ah

Ri is bleh still

[twilit portal]

lol I agree

[forest token]

I personally use ap1 for 40 but most others don't I think

[twilit portal]

But I’m still experimenting. I only have like… 150 runs right now under my belt?

[forest token]

Fair

[twilit portal]

32 is pretty consistent for me, 40 less so

[shy plinth]

https://i.imgur.com/uxZRqDE.png

So this is the foundation for a bog standard 40 pact

[forest token]

I did a ton of speedrunning before getting into higher heats so I had a lot of experience before heat lmao

[shy plinth]

From here I'd just throw a couple points somewhere between like jury summons and damage control

You could do HS here if you wanted as well

Have to take it at some point and once you do you will learn it pretty quickly lol

Watch out for dad jars, they are brutal

[twilit portal]

I started the game in hell mode so I’m stuck with CP1 and JS1, fyi

[shy plinth]

Ah well there you go

40 is free

[forest token]

Oh yeah I do HS at 40 as well bc I don't like cf lol

[shy plinth]

Boons costing 150 gold is unreal good

[twilit portal]

Yea I shut off CF for a couple runs just for fun and it was mind boggling. I turned on CF2 at like 20 heat like an idiot lol

Night and day difference.

[shy plinth]

It's REALLY common

[forest token]

That's excellent for 50 heat lmao

[shy plinth]

Generally pacts either put pressure on your play or put pressure on your build. One of the biggest new player mistakes we've seen in here over the years is people turning on a bunch of pacts that kill their build and then wonder why they can't hit the timer or kill a boss

[twilit portal]

Good thing I’m aiming for it lol

[twilit portal]

Yea from my point of view, I was aiming to get used to hard modifiers early so it’s easier to smooth out the difficulty and I don’t get used to being comfortable in runs. But I recently started considering that I probably want some more control early on so I can bring up my mechanical ability first.

[shy plinth]

Wise play

[twilit portal]

Especially with LC4 on, I can’t afford as many mechanical mistakes.

[shy plinth]

Have you watched any of the high heat runs on the leaderboards?

[twilit portal]

Almost all of them lol

All the aspect records at least.

Some of them are a lot older than others.

[forest token]

Recommend looking at stuff closer to your current heat, would give you a good reference for difficulty and pact

High heat starts and builds don't necessarily always apply to 40 heat

[forest token]

I think it's bc they would rather roll the rng for a good build rather than learn to play better lmao

[twilit portal]

I was mostly on here to ask about EM4 tips though lol. I don’t have that much trouble clearing 40 heat, just less consistent than 32.

[shy plinth]

I honestly think they just don't realize what they're doing

The number of times people have come in here with CF2 JS3 DC2 and then say that the timer is impossible is crazy

[forest token]

Lmfao true

Oh wait isn't there an em4 guide somewhere

Idk who wrote it but it does exist I just remembered

[shy plinth]

Hrrrrm I think there is

NephiOH

https://docs.google.com/document/d/126vagPhjSWQMR1x8O9tJT3neweSTdUUfw2pNVjqX7lU/edit?tab=t.0

[forest token]

Yeah nephi

[twilit portal]

Oh shit nice!

How did I miss that? Was it pinned?

[shy plinth]

Nope

[forest token]

Prob not yeah

I think that's like 1 of 3 high heat guides that exist lmao

[shy plinth]

There I edited it into one of my prev pinned messages

[forest token]

Most of the stuff that exists for this game are for speed

Oh based

[twilit portal]

So speed running is more popular in this game than high heat?

[forest token]

I think so

[twilit portal]

I guess it shouldn’t be surprising. It seems some of the higher heat runs tend toward taking away player agency in some way, which many will find unfit.

[forest token]

Most people only do 32 heat and that's it, partly bc they made it so hard that they don't think they can do higher lmao

[twilit portal]

Unfun*

[forest token]

Sub10 is a popular benchmark that gets thrown around a lot so a lot more casual players aim for that

Also speedrunning is more well known in gaming in general I think

[mossy laurel]

strongly agree

[forest token]

I will say tho that speedrunning helps a ton with high heat

[mossy laurel]

now I am thinking of doing 35 heat (max out everything that make enemy stronger except high security)

[forest token]

Does that include em4 lmao

[mossy laurel]

yeah

LUL

[forest token]

Fun lmao gl

[mossy laurel]

think its doable using bow?

[shy plinth]

That's true now at least

[forest token]

Yeah ofc

[forest token]

Oh wait are you doing dc2

[shy plinth]

I do feel like heat pushing was a big part of the meta and community back in '20-'22 or so

[forest token]

If so rama is like your only choice

[shy plinth]

Even earlier in EA

But then people did it so the only play is to get faster

[mossy laurel]

Max for
HL
JS,
EM
CP
BP
MM
FO
DC

35 heat

no time limit

🤔

[shy plinth]

What on earth

[mossy laurel]

😮 sound like a plan

[forest token]

Okay yeah rama is your only choice

DC makes Hera useless basically, Chiron is just bad, zag bow would struggle a lot

At least rama is really good tho lmao

[forest token]

Hm yeah i think so yeah

[mossy laurel]

bruh, chiron help me get 32 heat

[forest token]

There was also a resurgence a bit ago around angels 64

[shy plinth]

Yeah that was a big one

[forest token]

Bit before with all the new records being broken

But angels was big

[shy plinth]

The tailesque/baj barrel rolling era was one of my faves

And yeah angel crushed it

[forest token]

I mean everything works at 32 lol

But if you're gonna be buffing every enemy then chiron falls off a cliff unless you're Timothy and are built different

[mossy laurel]

for zag bow, if use double twin shot plus critical boon, op as heck

[forest token]

Yeah but dc2 shafts your first shot

Rama leads with special before attack so dc2 is already gone

And you deal more damage

[mossy laurel]

make sense

thanks for the tips

🫡

i think this is less harder than making yourself weaker

eg Max out for
LC
CF
UC
RI
AP
TD

[forest token]

I mean TD is fine

Lc isn't too bad and is recommended for what you're doing tbh lmfao

Or

Well like SD I guess

Lc4 makes SD a lot more impactful

[mossy laurel]

no death defiance, need to git real gud

[forest token]

Tbh with your 35 buff all enemies use SD

[mossy laurel]

SD?

[forest token]

Stubborn defiance

Opposite mirror from death defiance

[mossy laurel]

ah

i never use SD in heat rounds though

[forest token]

Unless you think you're gonna clear every room and boss before em4 without dying

Or roll for patty/well rng

[mossy laurel]

in boss fight, I only get 1 chance to revive

[forest token]

Which like could happen tbf

Yeah

[mossy laurel]

🫠

[twilit portal]

SD lets you get a soft heal every room if you can die on purpose as well.

[forest token]

But are you gonna be able to die less than 4 times throughout the whole run

[twilit portal]

Easy to do in Asphodel with the lava.

[mossy laurel]

may die a few time especially in EM3 boss

[twilit portal]

And Patroclus gives it a huge buff which you might be able to carry into the Hades fight if you get a 2 sack.

[mossy laurel]

i see how later first

[forest token]

What about before that as well

Ely can be rough

And em2 lernie is famous for taking 1

To the point where people take skelly tooth into em2 for insurance

If they don't use it they start ely with 100 HP and take acorn into Ely which is also really good

[forest token]

Patty gives tough of Styx dark, which makes SD heal 50% more for 80% total per life
It's almost guaranteed to last through Styx into dad fight as long as 2 specific conditions don't happen

Granted 2 sack anyways

[twilit portal]

Yea if you don’t get a 2 sack it’s not lasting lol

[upper juniper]

[twilit portal]

Getting Athena in your god pool lets you get some extra death defiances too under certain conditions.

When you run SD

[upper juniper]

Js use speedrun modpack

[forest token]

Oh yeah that's true

[forest token]

Real

I mean it shouldn't be needed until like 50 tho lmao

[upper juniper]

I mean if you have it anyways for speed

[twilit portal]

Don’t mods invalidate speedruns for the purpose of uploads?

Or I guess it’s a separate category?

[upper juniper]

speedrun modpack is a very specific set of mods for the modded category

[verbal atlas]

modpack is made for a separate src category and also a separate heat sheet

ty autocorrect

[forest token]

Lmfao amazing autocorrect

But yeah it's separate leaderboard and no one really frowns at the other for using or not using mods

[upper juniper]

modded basically just drops a ton of reset points

[forest token]

Smoothing out rng for consistent runs so you can play the game is generally a good thing lmao

[upper juniper]

axes the Extra long minibosses, and your starting hammer and boon are guaranteed and I can’t remember what else

[forest token]

Esp for high heat and speed where the first boon and hammer actually matter a lot

Guaranteed 2 sack so your run doesn't die to a 50% chance

[upper juniper]

I literally talked about that earlier and forgot about it

[forest token]

Showing fountain rooms is probably a bit gratuitous for heat but it's good for speed for obv reasons

[upper juniper]

I mean LC4

It’s just a free room

[forest token]

I think that's it for changes but I could be missing something

At least in run anyways

[twilit portal]

What heat level do you guys prefer to speed run?

[upper juniper]

9

forced overtime 2 and extreme measures 2

For categories that use real-time you can throw on tight deadline

(which are less commonly played categories)

[twilit portal]

Is IGT more commonly used over RTA?

[south violet]

rta single-run anyheat is so fake I'm ngl

multiweap runs exist for that

[upper juniper]

yep

Pretty much every conventional single-run category aside from fresh file

and fresh file isn’t because historically it can be a multi-run category (dying to run with a different weapon)

[south violet]

lc slander

[ashen garnet]

Kind of, and most speedrunning resources transfer to high-heat because of TD, high heat being speed-adjacent requires less guides or highly specific specific ones for a less broader audience (also believe most high-heaters tend to directly ask in dedicated channels or skim through leaderboard runs vods when looking for technicalities)

Any heat sr or heat sr did not really click for me -mostly because the later is number-based instead of condition-based-: really enjoy speedrunning Fresh File as it becomes a natural blend of difficulty/challenge with distinct quirks adjacent to high-heat restrictions with extra multi-runs potential

[twilit portal]

That makes a lot of sense. Should I spend some time learning speed strats if my plan is ultimately pushing high heat or do I just worry about bettering my plan overall and just work under TD

[upper juniper]

I think with some decent speed strats and practice you can definitely lower your average 32-40 to like 15 minutes igt (sans EM4) and that should set you up pretty well

You don’t need to get too deep into it

[twilit portal]

Lmao I like that you edited in the bit about EM4

[upper juniper]

I can’t say anything about em4 like I genuinely have no clue how much time it adds since I haven’t run it in so long

I can’t imagine it adds more than a minute or two?

[twilit portal]

That’s what it seems like yea.

Probably more for me since I’m inexperienced, unless I get a god build.

But for someone used to it, looks like an extra minute or two.

[south violet]

depending on how good your build is and what patterns he does, add between .5 (basically 1shotting every phase) and 5 minutes (average extreme high heat EM4 fight)

[ivory drum]

Dawg wtf is this take

Single run rta is lowkey the best category