h1-high-heat-strategies

[south violet]

to hell with jury summons 😌

[fast cliff]

fair, but id worry about not getting anything on special then and losing to these shielded guys, also it seems kinda cheesy xd

how do you avoid the pots?

he seems to make so many of them on em4

or is the plan to just say 'i will only get hit 8 times and acorn will save me and there won't be a butterfly ball'

[south violet]

JS0 will make those hell-rooms less likely because less enemies are in the room and hence less enemies to chase you around and protect one another

also, take it like this:
is it more about the journey than the improvement? then play however you want. I can get behind that, I play unmodded which is notoriously not efficient to run.
so you want to improve? then playing with the regular modpack settings is probably more efficient.

I'm not one to argue for people doing stuff with the modpack, in fact I think modded should more be used as a tool to get a feel for something (or see how feasible an idea / build is) as opposed to something people compete on, but I'm in the minority to think that. However it is undeniable that cutting down on resets will make the experience less needlessly painful, which is why I'm advocating for the use here.

[south violet]

you're playing an aspect with a ranged special, use said special to destroy pots ahead of time

that way you don't risk standing in one due to slow charge-time

[fast cliff]

something about building the pact with an extreme limitation like approval process 2 with the knowledge that it wont matter because of modded feels weird to me, which is kind of arbitrary but meh 🤷‍♂️

[south violet]

yeah play however you like

I and no-one else is here to tell you what to do, only to give advice in the event you want it.

[fast cliff]

in the later phases how do you know when he's about to do the lasers?

do you just stay really close to the pillars at all times?

[south violet]

• he can only laser in specific spots, so if you see him walk into a direction that's not where zag is then he probably us about to laser.
• even if he doesn't walk anywhere and starts blasting, even on FO2 he gives you enough time to dash a few times to get behind cover (or behind him, in the case of phase 2.1)
• stay somewhere near the diagonal between the top-left and the bottom-right of the arena (though don't strictly follow this line, I just mean stay near it, in other words don't go near the north-east or south-west of the arena for long). this should let you get behind cover in the span of 1 or 2 dashes.

[fast cliff]

and when he teleports away in phase 3?

[south violet]

oh and in phase 3, try to stay near the center (for maximum dash-direactions to avoid checkmate situations) and keep dad on-screen for as much of phase 3 as possible

[fast cliff]

if he's eating the pots vs firing lasers you have to do the opposite action

[south violet]

you should still have enough time to dash twice behind a pillar

[south violet]

yeah lasers are a great moment to destroy a few pots nearby too 👍

[south violet]

that being said, try to always keep at least one spot near your nearest pillar pot-less

that way you won't have to perfectly time a dash to i-frame the pot if it happens to get destroyed

I also like to pre-emptively destroy the breakable pillar in the bottom-right of the arena so that it doesn't break the nearby pot (fun fact, pots only spawn in specific locations too, with the exception of one in phase 3 which appears at zag's location at the start of p3!) under my feet at times where dad lasers said pillar.

[fast cliff]

i mean if he teleports away, if i start dashing around to find him, i get caught by the lasers half the time

[south violet]

you can see his footsteps

though in p3 this can be tough tbf

also, don't ever use dashes while you're not sure what attack dad is doing and the position you're in right now isn't in danger

(this applies to both versions of dad)

[fast cliff]

i see

[south violet]

so, if you're on a pot or far away from the center of the arena, maybe try to dash once.

but still try to keep a dash on-hand if possible.

[fast cliff]

a lot of the time i dont know whether he's able to do another attack or not

maybe theres info on his moves on the wiki i should check

[south violet]

it is almost always possible to iframe every EM4 attack without any bonus dashes from mirror or hermes

[fast cliff]

interesting

im guessing running away is just not useful then xd

im getting better at i framing through the big spin spesifically

[south violet]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/126vagPhjSWQMR1x8O9tJT3neweSTdUUfw2pNVjqX7lU/edit

[fast cliff]

oh sick

thanks

[sly cove]

ew em4

[upper juniper]

This pact reminds me why I never went above 40

The remaining options just get aggrivating and make the game a slog

[fast cliff]

i think 44 is fine and 42 on aspects that hate damage control, maybe?

like em4 seems extremely difficult but it im assuming that it's like, sane

in a way that jury summons + time limit + benefits rng isn't

[delicate knoll]

but 50 is such a nice round number 😔

[south violet]

Reject absurd-highheat return to 32

[verbal atlas]

you cant be saying this right after doing a 59😭

[south violet]

I rest my case, screw 59 😌

[verbal atlas]

but 50 heat is so fun, like i just click my skirt go shield go spinny, put on ri4 and then win

[upper juniper]

40 is also a round number

[forest token]

so is 60

[south violet]

so is 49 (if you're in base 7)

[verbal atlas]

only real heats are those that are perfect squares

[south violet]

only triangle numbers allowed

(0+1+2+3+4+...)

[ivory drum]

so 9 is real

[upper juniper]

My favourite heat is 225

[verbal atlas]

cubes 😔

[sly cove]

just put on ap4

and ri6

[south violet]

Finally the statement "I have like negative boons rn" can be true 😌

[honest crypt]

the em1 -> em2 -> em3 -> em4 progression is real

after that you turn on ap2

[sly cove]

https://tenor.com/view/jigsaw-tweaking-jigsaw-gif-9771344477130696767

[nimble steppe]

Is this a skill issue cuz like I beat 32 fear in hades 2 but I am struggling at 32 heat?

current 32 heat set up is listed below

Hard Labor (Rank 1)

Lasting Consequences (Rank 1)

Jury Summons (MAX)

Extreme Measures (Rank 4)

Calisthenics Program (MAX)

Benefits Package (MAX)

Middle Management (MAX)

Underworld Customs (MAX)

Forced Overtime (MAX)

[forest token]

yeah your pact is just cursed

you're struggling with 32 heat bc you buffed enemies so much that they take forever to kill

enemies have 30% more hp, including bosses
you have 60% more enemies
em4 is a huge pain in the ass, esp with 3 hp bars

your pact only works well/easily if you have like a super juiced build

would recommend going through the guide pinned here bc it'll clean up your pact and also probably fix your build bc i'm sure it's also a build issue

bc if you had a good/meta build, it wouldn't really be a problem other than mechanical issues

[south violet]

is this a td0 pact

[nimble steppe]

I'm doing a chiron Dio special build

[upper juniper]

On what weapon

/aspect

[nimble steppe]

Bow/Chiron Dio special

I got farther tnx to the doc but I got cooked by theseus and asterius

[honest crypt]

fo2 super dad

[forest token]

what's your pact now?

chiron dio is still very doable at 32 heat

[nimble steppe]

Lemme add the mirror

Shadow Presence
Chthonic Vitality
Stubborn Defiance
Greater Reflex
Boiling Blood
Infernal Soul
Deep Pockets
Thick Skin
Family Favorite
Dark Foresight
Gods' Pride
Fated Persuasion

Hard Labor 1x
Lasting consequences Maxed
Extreme Measures x3
Benefits Package x2
Middle Management
Underworld Customs
Forced Overtime Maxed
Tight Deadline Maxed

I'm tempted to switch tight deadline with a mix of Jury summons and Damage Control

[upper juniper]

Jury Summons on chiron

The most single target bow aspect

[nimble steppe]

I like hitting multiple enemies along the way cuz piercing, but yeah it dumb

I could trade a bit of tight deadline for damage control

[upper juniper]

Is time that much of a concern?

I figure if you’ve been regularly been going over recently it’s probably because of your previous pacts that had all the time consuming pacts

[shy plinth]

Would at least recommend trying a run with the new config to see how it feels

Will take some adjustment

[nimble steppe]

I barely have enough time left for theseus and asterius

And tbh those things in elysium take time

[upper juniper]

tbf hangover isn’t exactly fast unless you highroll

you need 4 billion poms and global +% for hangover to really pop off for speed

[forest token]

chiron doesn't really pierce unless you have piercing volley, which isn't really that much extra useful damage

chiron isn't exactly known for being fast, but it's definitely possible

elysium is a pretty massive time sink, especially for chiron, so you need to bank up a lot of time in the first two biomes

[sly cove]

td2 should still be free tho

just drop to td2 for hl4 or something

js is hell dc is probably kinda bad idk maybe dc is free on chiron i dont play it

[forest token]

Hl4 fo2 can be a bit brutal

Dc2 on Chiron is like fine ish

Td2 banks you enough time to be completely fine with dc2 tho

[sly cove]

i dont play chiron for a reason

[fast cliff]

with flurry shot on hera is the timing for loading the casts different?

or how do you play differently

also do people not use it on high heat and use a different hammer instead?

[forest token]

not really? you just load it before you shoot like you normally would

i guess you could load casts while charging up the bow without the hammer, but it kinda charges too fast to do that imo lmao

also depends on how high heat, i think at 32 heat you can still use flurry

or whatever hammer you prefer

but at higher heats, hera kinda falls off and the strats get a bit more dubious

[fast cliff]

why?

also with flurry i find the arrows miss randomly a decent amount of the time not sure why

[forest token]

it's harder to scale your damage so your casts just don't fall out of enemies

and you have to deal with more enemies and sometimes higher hp numbers depending on pact/bp perk

so your cast usefulness kinda falls off

[forest token]

get better aim lmao (i also cannot aim)

bc of the slanted perspective (i forgot the actual word for it), aiming is a bit off

i think generally, controller is easier for aiming with bow bc of the auto aim

[fast cliff]

does it not have aim assist in the same way drawing the bow does?

to me it feels like the aim assist is just not leading the shots properly

do you use the double shot hammer on higher heat with hera then?

idk i do enjoy using the aspect so even if the casts aren't the main focus i kinda wanna try whatever the build ends up being at higher heats

[forest token]

ngl no clue, i haven't run hera past 32 heat before

i think when i did my hera 32 heat i used explosive or twin

[fast cliff]

32 on hera was like, really easy idk if it even matters the hammer

[forest token]

yeah it's certainly not hard at 32 heat

unless you take the stinky pacts

[fast cliff]

em4 is starting to feel maybe doable

i died right at the end a couple times 🙁

[verbal atlas]

isometric view im assuming?

[fast cliff]

^^

I don't think it's the isometric view thats getting me though

I also suspect that it might be the hitbox on hera that is screwing with me too

it seems to just randomly not lodge or not deal damage

even if it hits the enemy

idk there's probably multiple layers to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHWm3sd6-BM

what is this pact

oh also I got the dialogue from dad saying i could use meg in the final fight now and then it just still doesn't let me do it

[delicate knoll]

it's 50 heat

by that point you have to take a few stinky ones

[delicate knoll]

you have to buy it first from the house contractor

[fast cliff]

ahhh

ok

thanks

[verbal atlas]

i mean, the dc2 is kinda weird tho no?

[fast cliff]

I was mostly confused at mirror upgrades gone

[verbal atlas]

yeah, at 50+ heat most commonly RI2 or RI3 is done depending on the aspect just because they end up not effecting all too much and rerolls can still be obtained you end up having just a more stringent run in terms of rng especially with it combined with ap2

[delicate knoll]

ah i didn't actually check the video 🗿

[fast cliff]

on rama does shared suffering still work when you hit enemies with damage control shields?

[south violet]

yup!

[fast cliff]

the house contractor doesn't give me the option...

im scrolling through the wiki now trying to find the dialogue that i got before so i can read it again

the wiki doesnt seem to show the contractor as having this work order :/

I'm starting to wonder if my game is actually somehow bugged

[upper juniper]

Did you have a meg use when you tried to use it on dad

[fast cliff]

yeah

i often forget to use meg at all xd

[upper juniper]

I only ask because the last time someone had this problem, that was literally what had happened

[fast cliff]

ok my problem wasnt that but it was pretty stupid

i reverted to a save from before I finished giving ambrosia/nectar when I was practicing the em4 fight xdd

[sly cove]

😭

[nimble steppe]

Thanks for the help with 32 heat

[strong palm]

yeahhhh youre welcome

[sly cove]

np

[honest crypt]

I'm looking to do 40 heat with hera modded
probably taking hl5 but what other pacts should I take

js2 cf2 looks good to me rn

-# my 32h pact is hl1 lc4 em3 mm uc bp2 fo2 td3

[verbal atlas]

i would probably ri2 or add some level of approval process, bc modded makes your starts sm more consistent

[forest token]

Please don't do ri2 at 40 lmfao

Just do ap1

[sly cove]

💀💀💀💀

hl5 cf2 ap1

[fast cliff]

how do you actually get decent dps with zag/chaos shield?

[delicate knoll]

the easiest way is to get the charged shot hammer

take aphro or athena attack, completely ignore the special (yes even on chaos shield), get tidal dash

constantly dash strike into bullrush, if you get cshot then bullrush gets replaced with the shot

[fast cliff]

so poseidon keepsake then?

[delicate knoll]

nope, aphro or athena, your attack is more important

[scarlet kayak]

damn, I am actually pretty surprised how I have cleared 32 heat (was long ago), because I used nemesis aspect + magaera keepsake, I even had drunken strike and artemis aid...

[sly cove]

or just ME...

[verbal atlas]

the ME gamble on high heat 😩

[south violet]

It's fine, 32 is just spicy anyheat

[verbal atlas]

so is 50 heat

[upper juniper]

64 too for that matter

[verbal atlas]

it is zeus week too! (i mayhaps be tempted to go for some unmodded zeus 64 this week )

[verbal atlas]

update: i had played for about an hour and made it to ely once w/ bad build (ares special + ER)

[forest token]

Damn

[neon bison]

Late to the party, but Artemis Deadly Flourish surprisingly can be effective. No other special Olympian effects really work the way youd want them to, but the 20% crit chance applies to all shields. Pair that with aphrodite attack and heart rend, plus charged shot and maybe dashing flight (for a quick shield return) and it actually does just fine. If you're trying to maximize the effect granted by titan blood, that's the way I would go. Cleared 32 heat with that build, not sure about higher heat levels.

I wish Thunder Flourish was more effective, but since the shields hit simultaneously and thunder Flourish has an unlisted 0.2 second cooldown, it just doesnt perform the way I'd like it to.

As for zag shield, abuse the flat damage increase. Pulverizing blow for double the hit count - and holding in place, no knockback - aphrodite attack for high percentage multiplier to stack with the flat increase. Its a different style of build, but also works.

[forest token]

the special on chaos shield is kinda worthless lmao

you're better off with just charged shot and aphrodite attack

the special isn't gonna do you much damage

also charted shot on both is gonna be better

pulv blow on zag shield is still good, but cshot is just too good

[neon bison]

Honestly I agree, the unique effect of aspect of chaos just doesnt work like it should imo, but if the question is how to maximize the aspect, thats how I would do it. If not to use the unique ability, then youre just better off taking zag shield over chaos, the flat damage increase is so much more useful

I wish I could see what chaos shield was like from early access, I heard it got nerfed

I did do a 32 heat run that made use of the chaos special if you want to see, but even I'll admit its not my best run or weapon

[verbal atlas]

you can still view some of the EA speedruns for hades on SRC if you were interested as that'd give some idea to it

[neon bison]

Ooh, I'll take a look!

[verbal atlas]

and chaos shield was at somepoint the meta aspect so you could view there pretty easily

[neon bison]

It would be great if daedalus hammers affected the bonus shields as well, even with a reduced effect. Imagine dread flight with 6 shields. Would make a somewhat weak hammer become insane.

[verbal atlas]

explosive return 😔

[upper juniper]

a lot of the time the best application of chaos shield is just as a discount zag shield yeah

it's like chiron in that regard

[neon bison]

Lol wdym? Chiron is literally my favorite aspect. Best hangover runs I've ever done came from Chiron.

Heartbreak strike, drunken Flourish, Artemis aid. Then low tolerance, splitting headache, heart rend and curse of nausea. Its a lot, but its definitely doable.

And soooo much fun

[upper juniper]

Coming from a speed perspective

the chiron gimmick just doesn’t have a place there

[neon bison]

Thats fair. Not really concerned about speed. Although uh... I did just accidentally get my first sub 10 time trying to get that Hermes thing to work.

[upper juniper]

I like speed

is fun

but I’m kinda burnt out of it so I’m going back to heat

[fast cliff]

is asphodel really hard on 50 heat or am i just super bad at not stepping in the lava

i feel like most of my deaths are like, furies, random asphodel room or learnie, hades rn

[verbal atlas]

a lot of it does come down to experience but yeah lava can be really annoying on high heat

[sly cove]

its pretty hard although it definitely is kind of a skill issue

have u been bringing tooth into aspho

[fast cliff]

nope

[sly cove]

try that

[fast cliff]

I think I am wasting my dashes too much in the hades fight but it feels hard to know when i shouldnt be dashing tbh

I also think i sometimes take hits from throwing away my iframes by pressing the attack button while dashing to dodge the double spin for example

[verbal atlas]

that attack does have a pretty consistent dash you can do into an attack, although you do have to do the attack input rather delayed (or 2 dashes + less of pause for the same effect iirc) you cant do a pshot on rama in the window but you can pull of an attack in most cases

[fast cliff]

I meant more that like

he goes for the second spin

i dash twice

i try to do the dash strike out of it

i take damage because i pressed the attack button while dashing (i think?)

[left prism]

yeah, dash strike removes iframes the moment you press attack

[fast cliff]

i guess i have to wait as long as possible to press attack after my dash?

or just time it so i start my two dashes later ig

or get it in one dash

[sly cove]

just dont dash attack

[fast cliff]

it takes like 10 years to charge the attack after he spins if i dont though xd

[left prism]

It'll take even more if he kills you

If this is rama either just do a min charge attack for some extra dmg or don't greed it

If you have calls you could use them for iframes to greed a bit safer

[south violet]

float("+inf")

(I know that's not what you meant)

[silver mica]

When should you use your special on high heat

not special

summon

I usually still have 5 when (if) i get to hades but it would help if i had suggestions on where to go in intending to use it

(i'm filling the wait before h2 by grinding out 32 heats)

[verbal atlas]

summon is most commonly used in the miniboss chambers of every biome, heroes and dad fight

not really used during reg chambers

also what summon are you running?

[silver mica]

meg

[verbal atlas]

meg is the most universally usable of all of them bc its fast also its dmg is good 😌

so banger you're already on it

[silver mica]

i struggle with timing it sometimes but yea its the best for sure

[verbal atlas]

there are some optimization things i could get into for using meg on heroes as well as certain minibosses if u wanted me to explain those

[silver mica]

sure that might help

im running beowulf rn if that matters

[verbal atlas]

brief run down on how meg's direction works: its always perpendicular to the way zagreus is facing at the time of using meg, as well as a tad after (like maybe 30 smthn frames idk for sure) and picks the closest enemy in relation to zagreus
all of this is assuming damage control 0
tartarus-
for the sneak, wait for it to teleport once after spawning then tap the summon button immediately after it appears
for inferno bomber mini boss, dash twice and then attack towards the upper region near the exit then tap meg (this one is iirc most easily done on kbm, idr if there is a controller setup for it)
for doomstone its dash on top of it and then insta tap meg
asphodel-
witches circle, https://discord.com/channels/940392249844465694/1232563075916234752 (just linking the post from the speedrunning discord as it explains it very well)
power couple (gorgon head and skull crusher), wait for the skull crusher to fall on top of you and before it lands, tap meg if you do it early you may have to dash out of the way to avoid the shockwave (if running middle management that is)
elysium-
butterfly ball, dash into it and then meg
asterius, meg right at the start (or you can hold until the second phase if you just dont want to deal with it as much)
heroes, tap up on direction before using meg
styx-
snakestone, wait till it spawns in before megging (or if middle management then wait till the other miniboss before using)
giant vermin, wait until its just about to spawn in before using meg (or safer is to not use meg and instead bait it into the traps or baiting out its lunge bite before using it)
satyr, wait until drops in and meg (or same methods as giant vermin)
tony/tiny rodent, it does 3 (?) quick pop ups before wandering around and attacking you bait out on of its lunges before using meg or for it to call in reinforcements (another side thing is that its ai breaks a lot if you stand on the other side of the gap to it, it ends up just kinda moving a little bit before its pathing eventually fixes itself and moves to the otherside at which point you can just dash the other side)

[silver mica]

okay amazing super helpful

power couple gets me on occasion so thats especially helpful

i'll keep in mind for next run 🫡

[sly cove]

tart midboss/aspho midboss/ely midboss/heroes (super easy setup)/bonus for styx midboss/dad

dude i hate when i miss my meg on ball because i didnt attack it LOL

[neon bison]

I'm a weirdo for liking a lot of things that aren't exactly standard, like fated authority, but I still prefer Bouldy. I have my reasons, and I know they're wrong. Meg is best.

[primal aspen]

hello ı wanted to ask ı want to do a 32 heat run but ı dont know what to choose form the pact
ım propably goıgn to try to do a dodge buıld
but agaın ı dontk now what to choose ım fıne wıth FO1 and TD2 butt ıdk about the rest
help

[south violet]

pinned messages should have a 32 heat guide to help.

[sly cove]

dodge build is not very good because u dont get build direction but you do you

its fun tho

#h1-victory-boasting message

[forest token]

It's good if you happen to get Zeus early and then get jolted lmao

Or somehow rng into ME

[ancient ore]

guys can someone help me with one problem...

just beat my first 20 heat run

and it says I cannot win anymore stuff with this weapon

but I reeeeeeally want to continue to use the fists

and get diamonds etc

I already looked for a mod to remove this limit but found nothing...

[delicate knoll]

bounties only go as far as 20 heat

you can't have your cake and eat it

[ancient ore]

yeah I want to remove that limitation just for the sake of fun

just need one more diamond...

[upper juniper]

Trade for it

Or use a different weapon

Or save up obols for it

[sly cove]

yea just use a different weapon

or buy it

[ancient ore]

ok 😔 went with the sword where i left at heat 6 but it got the job done

[honest crypt]

damn hl5 has hands
I can't leave tartarus with 40 heat

[upper juniper]

This is what talos was made for

[honest crypt]

💀

I'll use hera and you cannot stop me

[upper juniper]

Aslong as you don’t have RI hera shouldnbe fine

[sly cove]

ew hera

unless MEra

[upper juniper]

You havenmt heard of the revolutionary new ZAPera?

[sly cove]

sounds worse than special only rama

[upper juniper]

Man I was hoping you’d fall for the bait

😔

[sly cove]

bait?

[fast cliff]

with achilles how do you actually see a damn thing to know whether to empty dash

the screen ends up with a million zeus lightning things on it and i cant see what the boss or enemy is doing

[south violet]

That's the neat part: you don't.

High heat in general has a lot of "know the enemy's attack-timings so you know when to dash even if you don't see the attack itself or the enemy doing it", lotta visual clutter

[fast cliff]

:/

boo

[peak girder]

anyone got a good build?

[delicate knoll]

what aspect and heat goal

[peak girder]

ill take whatever tbh

just gimme your fave : )

[delicate knoll]

hestia with aphro attack

[verbal atlas]

wdym bait? zeus attack hera goes hard (im assuming u mean cast but whatever)

[upper juniper]

Readjusting to high heat is certainly something after a lot of speed

Permanent damage 💔

[verbal atlas]

wdym, you have stubborn healing?

(unless you're based and running ri4 )

[upper juniper]

it’s different when your ehp is like 15% of what it would be speedrunning

Oh but frei I hit the stupidest thing earlier

Challenge of the gods for uc fodder right

cuz it’s tartarus whatever

I hit epic rare crop boosting lightning strike, frost flourish and jolted

Now I just need to survive long enough for it to matter

[verbal atlas]

(will say, trials are pretty common takes for me at least whenever i play)

[upper juniper]

I wish Zag would say “that has to be the last of this lot” every room 🥀

[upper juniper]

coming from speed it’s a mindset change

I want to submit a high heat run for aotw but I cleared 32 really easily so I kicked it up to 40 and now I’m struggling

a lot

[verbal atlas]

the heat speed in question:

[ivory drum]

wdym

you should always be taking trials for speed

idk what you are on about

[verbal atlas]

ty edward

[ivory drum]

(i have never once spread misinfo before)

[upper juniper]

Now I sit here, 2 rerolls to my name looking at the most atrocious Hermes ever

[left prism]

Gambleeeee

[upper juniper]

after I rerolled what was arguably worse

[verbal atlas]

i mean you ARE a top ten hades speedrunner, id trust anything u said

[upper juniper]

Not my last 2 rerolls

[ivory drum]

fr

[left prism]

Coward /j

[ivory drum]

free thought is fake

[ivory drum]

okay, but I do kinda do this with pseudo

[upper juniper]

Common greater evasion or rare side hustle decisions decisions

[ivory drum]

if that man tells me to do something, you can bet imma do it

[upper juniper]

Quick recovery doesn’t work with lc4 right

[ivory drum]

it does

[upper juniper]

wha

mmm

still like

30% damage when I have no max hp anyways

[verbal atlas]

im taking side hustle there

i ❤️ free money

[upper juniper]

Witches oh no

Dc2 witches does the set up just die

[ivory drum]

depends on weapon

[upper juniper]

This is luci btw

[ivory drum]

uhhhhhhhh

it gets like

superrrrrr cursed

[upper juniper]

ykw

I’m gonna try some shenanigans with my hellfire bombs

[ivory drum]

because the normal solution is mouse tech

[upper juniper]

Uhhhh

Success!

[ivory drum]

legendary

[upper juniper]

Actually my frost flourish is epic

[ivory drum]

mbmb

[upper juniper]

Just realised I have 0 poms

Choosing between end shop and poms and I have 0 poms

but tbh I’d rather hope and pray for a centaur heart rn

[verbal atlas]

what pact are you running for 40 heat out of curiousity?

[upper juniper]

wait side hustle gave me exactly enough for a boon

[verbal atlas]

side hustle my goat

[upper juniper]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/795659377755422742/1419831781770793133/970D32A4-AD19-4C0D-9441-912938323050.jpg?ex=68d330e3&is=68d1df63&hm=f213fef195ad0a8c909636fe56b63f661342654113287f554a05a498cce0509c&

[ivory drum]

ocke has convinced me this is true

[upper juniper]

Just realised the glow is covering up the hl5

I kinda made the pact on a whim

also cold fusion = the ultimate uc fodder?!?

Chat I just no-hit a 40 heat lernie fight

Thank you Athena for ddash and your call truly the mvp

I think I might actually take tooth for once

[verbal atlas]

bc ur em3'ing im taking tooth tbh

wait not tooth

acorn

thats what i meant to type

[upper juniper]

eh too late now

My hermes boons keep popping up at abysmal crossroads

no erebus hermes stay away from me

[upper juniper]

I actually think I’m more likely to die in any random ely room

.

poin tproven

although it was to a stupid mistake in the Asterius minibosss room

[verbal atlas]

asterius miniboss sucking 😌

[upper juniper]

Died to archers next room

💔

time to actually finish my lab report 🥀 instead of procrastinating

[verbal atlas]

damn

[upper juniper]

actually nvrmind the only thing I have left is some results I have to steal from my friend because I forgot to record 6 data points

Can’t fake them without a reference for the remote ballpark they should even be in

[sly cove]

dodge, 10% of the time you dodge every time

[upper juniper]

Ok so having reviewed the footage I can squarely say Meg didn’t really do squat I just blitzed all the witches at once

💔

I just saw meg take dc shields of like 3/4 witches

good thing triple bomb was waiting right after meg

[fast cliff]

with flurry jab i feel like the timing of when i can do an empty dash out of my attack chains is inconsistent, even if i have a dash up?

what might i be screwing up? or am i getting locked into the full attack string by buffering or holding down the attack button or something?

[fast cliff]

also are there any high heat achilles runs on video besides the 57 heat one on bili bili (the resolution of the video is super low at least when i tried watching it)

[south violet]

the two heat sheets (both pinned in high heat chat in speedcord) should have several others

[vague patio]

are there ways you can practice certain bosses repeatedly? I find most of the runs go fine, but once I get to the boss I take a ton of damage

I'm trying to clear 32 heat with zag fists

and the furies crush me

[left prism]

If you are on pc you can make save states

But also 32 heat zag fists are you doing plume or no

[vague patio]

no I have been trying zeus attack and athena dash

I guess I could try plume and hope to roll a good attack naturally

[vague patio]

is that quitting before the fight is over? Now that you mention it, that seems pretty obvious

[left prism]

No don't dobthat

Zeus is more consistent

[left prism]

Not exactly
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1228902200923918440/1419143606890926161/Screenshot_20250920-230942.Discord.png?ex=68d3fbba&is=68d2aa3a&hm=285e1bdea03b75a96883579937b3d30a5979d6df40af5bd1e99ee6e8742b4c90&

Do this basically, rename it to a save slot you don't use

[sly cove]

zeus attack is better but plume is funnier

[fast cliff]

under the players and weapons there's only one and under player records there's no videos linked

am i looking wrong or something?

oh it's under submissions isee

[vague patio]

I finally got 28 heat with fists and had a thought, should I just skip to 32 and try? I feel like I needed a bit of luck to get 28, but the luck was good enough that 32 probably was doable (like time was no issue so 2 heat right there)

Original plan was to step 2 heat at a time, but it took a lot of runs at 26 and 28

[upper juniper]

A lot of people skip from 20 straight to 32 so like

You should be fine

[forest token]

some do 8 to 32

[verbal atlas]

yeah tight deadline really isnt an issue for the most part when it comes to runs (until like the really high heats)

[upper juniper]

one man

[ancient ore]

im also trying 32 heat with the fists rn! appreciate any tips

[ancient ore]

oof I justt died in elysium bc of the 5min deadline 😭 lol

[upper juniper]

There’s a very well written guide from Bananas pinned here the should give you a solid basis for 32 heat and also specifically using fists for that

It’ll help get you up to speed for conversations if you need anything deeper btw

[ancient ore]

thanks! i was looking for some strategies on youtube before, love a written guide

[forest token]

most youtube guides are hm

[upper juniper]

Hades youtube is a little scarce

at least for genuinely good sources recognised by the high heat and speed community

I want to start a channel at some pojnt but electrical engineering studies are kind of taking up a bunch of my time atm

[vague patio]

if I'm on zag fists, do I ever include special in my attack sequence at higher heats?

[south violet]

depends on the heat and the biome tbh

up to like 32 heat in tartarus I'd say "yeah, do a dash-upper at the end of most 'hold attack down and dash twice' rotations", but past that probably should only be if you know the dash-upper / special will kill the enemy immediately, faster than any other way you have to deal damage to said enemy

this "kill enemies efficiently" thing is an idea that pops up constantly in high-level (both for speedrunning and high heat), and is referred to as "breakpoints"

[upper juniper]

It’s also a lot more applicable when you know you can dash-upper on the same dash as a dashstrike

[vague patio]

can you unpack the "hold attack and dash twice" rotation?

I've just been holding attack and hitting dash after a few hits

do you do "dash dash" to get 2 dash strikes in and go back to attacks?

[south violet]

if I'm understanding you right, pretty much? it's situation-dependent.
all dashes refresh at the same time, the game just checks how long ago your last dash was and if it is long ago, you get all dashes back. it can sometimes be better to keep a dash on-hand for later to be able to do a regular dash (without the strike) to avoid an attack, but DPS-wise I believe chaining dashes is better.

[vague patio]

and if you're weaving in a special, you'd hold attack, dash dash + special to finish

might have to adjust keybindings to get that sequence in

[south violet]

you should basically never used standing specials

they're like twice as long as a dupper (except if you have the kinetic launcher hammer), and make you stand basically still for that amount of time

[vague patio]

yeah, lack of comma placement

dash, dash+special

[south violet]

please call it a dash-upper or dupper for short, makes what you mean more clear

else one could imagine you mean dashing and doing a regular special after. after all, this (something called a dash-special, a piece of tech that lets the player dash and do most of the special-animation at the same time) is something (non-arthur) sword-players sometimes do when there's a group of weak enemies ahead.

[upper juniper]

dstrike d(strike-upper)

[vague patio]

got it

do you switch your keybindings on the controller for that?

[upper juniper]

other reason to use dupper at high heat is if you hit the lifesteal hammer as your second hammer (idk maybe your other options sucked)

Since it bypasses lc4

[south violet]

or you're playing dem/gilga

dem has a frickton of uses for duppers (when cutter is ready), that special slaps. and gilga special has maim.

and I suppose talos has the pull / magnet effect, but you're actively trying to avoid the special itself on that aspect, only applying magentic to the enemy with a special interrupted by dash

[upper juniper]

Only time I ever change my keybinds on controller is for using hera/beo

[vague patio]

not for the empowered reload?

[upper juniper]

I would change them for bow if I was going to properly learn how to use pseudotech but it hurts my brain too much

[south violet]

hestia? yeah. default reload button location on controller is hot garbage

[upper juniper]

I use hestia so infrequently I forgot about that

I’ve never personally changed the reload for rail tbh

[south violet]

when are you picking up that aspect and immediately beating 32/40

[upper juniper]

I said that in reference to zag fists 💔

idk when I start truly trying for all aspects 40

[south violet]

yeah ik, just wanted to make it clear not all fist specials are created equal 👍 ❤️

[vague patio]

helpful

[upper juniper]

I have other things to do (fire emblem awakening and uni work) before I try to grt all my aspects up for 32/40

Hestia is one of the 7 aspects I have left for 32 heat though

I went on a diabolical run the other day with a bunch of aspects and knocked out a ton

[south violet]

one of the easiest for 32/40 I swear (#biased)

[upper juniper]

The ones I have are mostly either personal preference or on a whim for an aotw one time

lik

actually this might sound a little insane but Guan-Yu, Hestia and, Rama, and Zag/Chaos shield are on that list of uncompletely 32 heat aspects for me

yk

the heat aspects for those weapons (and then the shields just being shields)

[vague patio]

would you say zag fists or demeter fists are easier for 32 heat?

[upper juniper]

Dem

big burst damage > 15% dodge chance

[vague patio]

I got to hades a few times with zag fists but once ran out of time and once just couldn't punch enough. Felt like I needed more damage

I'll try dem

[upper juniper]

Is nice because all the fists builds have a good +% specisl to use

[left prism]

Your hades stats always surprise me

[upper juniper]

My hades stats are all over the place

Spreadfire zagrail beat my pb recently

ish

[vague patio]

what do you mean by this?

[upper juniper]

dem is like a 210/240 base damage special

and merciful end/ zap and hangover all use like athena / aphrodite who have high +% specials

[upper juniper]

Zag bow was 7:46 and then I was trying to sub9 with zag rail and I went “wait this pace is sub8 able” and then I got 7:43

[upper juniper]

I didn’t have a single 32 heat completion with spear before a month ago

or

Was it this month

[vague patio]

Woo got there with Demeter fists 1 HP. 1 is not 0

[scarlet kayak]

from 20
I thought it'd be 25, but maybe not everyone trying 32 likes to play that mode

well, from 24, because the 32 will still give the last reward for that weapon

[upper juniper]

20 is last bounty, 32 is next milestone, it’s an extremely common jump

[scarlet kayak]

yeah, unless on hell mode (I personally think that hell mode specific extra skull makes 32 easier)

[upper juniper]

But hellmode makes you run cp1 and js1

which is worse

also significantly less people play on hellmode

[sly cove]

pl is not that good

i onlyl take it when im doing 50

like u actually just insta die to splitters in ely

and js1 cp1 is awful

[scarlet kayak]

fair enough

[sly cove]

like on its own id compare it to hs but probably a little easier but also without the positive

but hs doesnt come with js1 cp1

[vague patio]

What's worked well for y'all at 32 heat shield. I have tried shackle + approval process 2 (not enough damage at the end bosses), zeus on zeus (do you take damage control here? I put too much on hard labor and just got destroyed)

[left prism]

Def not ap2 first of all 😭

Otherwise yeah just do zeus^2 and put dc2 if High HL is annoying

Or do beowulf gaming

[vague patio]

shackle + ap2 was a nice way to get 5 heat and not be dependent on boons

but then I realized I wasn't do enough damage against the end bosses

yeah I think I'll try more beowulf

[verbal atlas]

dont listen to what these cringe players say shackle should be plenty of damage on zeus for 32h, and yeah zeus most commonly takes DC2

[vague patio]

what heat setup do you like for beo?

EM3, BP2, MM, UC, FO1, TD2, CF2 is my base load

and LC2 I think

But the last 5 heat (I am unsure about the numbers) are tough

[verbal atlas]

cf2 can make build a little harder to do, also beo doesnt really lack damage so you do smthn like calisthenic program tbh and would also say no to UC just bc can reduce the amount of build you can get, if you felt comfortable enough in your boss fights you could consider maxxing out LC and then run stubborn defiance instead for healing a lot of it comes down to general comfort if you havent already would def recommend checking the 32 heat basic guide linked in pins here

[vague patio]

yeah I"ve been going through it

I have done 32 heat with fists, bow, and gun

shield I'm struggling with since it's more defensive, but still needs to brawl

[verbal atlas]

(shield is probably one of the most offensive weapons in the game jsyk) it does come down to how it is actually played, the block/bull rush make it incredibly safe to get damage in on while still maintaining a relatively high dps output

[left prism]

What's your average clear time?

(to see if you can do td3)

[vague patio]

well, I haven't cleared it at 32 so I dunno?

but I guess the way I was playing shield was too defensive, since I didn't think I was even close to td3

[shy plinth]

If you do FO2 TD3 HL1 you can do CF0

Beo really likes boons

You should be dealing crazy damage by late in the run

[vague patio]

ok, I'll try it out

[shy plinth]

HL1 LC4 CF0 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3

This is my go to with SD

[vague patio]

I think I tried FO2 a few times and got walloped by armored who spawned with speed

[shy plinth]

It is an adjustment

Same with LC4+SD - you'll have to tighten up your boss fights in particular

But beo is really good at those

[vague patio]

yeah LC4 + SD has been how I've been getting 32 with the other weapons

[shy plinth]

Ye, it's the right move imo

[left prism]

You can also do hl5/fo0

Hitting hard but they are slow

[sly cove]

beowulf 32 is pretty comfy with lc4 em3 bp2 mm uc td3 (hl+fo to 6, or bonus cf)

iirc thats 32

with mirage u should be nuking everything

[vague patio]

just got to get better at not dying I guess

[sly cove]

i mean u can block like most stuff lmao

if u dont have rerolls probably get those

[snow tusk]

What is a good goal for me to call it quits? I seriously doubt ill be able to get 64 heat ever

[left prism]

most people don't lmao

your call really

I think an approachable goal for everyone is at least sub 10/32 heat

from there you can test if you like either of those experiences and climb more

[snow tusk]

Yeah as long as i am having fun...

[vague patio]

which sword is easiest for 32 heat?

I finished beo

I've been messing with the timing of special into 2x strike into special

I find there's a huge pause before 2nd special, leaving me very open

or is it dstrike dstrike, swing swing, special

or something like that

?

[upper juniper]

Nemesis

dstrike-> dstrike -> special -> repeat

[left prism]

You can also cast into dash strike

[vague patio]

is the dstrike dstrike immediate or do you wait a beat between them?

[upper juniper]

immediate

[jaunty falcon]

Practice against skelly, it takes a bit to get used to

Very easy to accidentally standing strike

[sly cove]

32 is pretty easy 40 is p feasible

idk just call it whenever u dont feel like playing anymore

[forest token]

32 is pretty standard and gets you an in game rewards

[deft ferry]

Thinking of heading back to H1 for awhile and trying to get back to grinding my heat up. My weapons of choice are the Chaos Shield, the Zag Fists, and the Arthur Sword. I got to heat 19 on both the shield and fists then hit a bit of a wall, figured I'd ask here for advice on what I could be doing different
(besides changing weapons/aspects. I want to use what I enjoy using otherwise why even play the game?)
to actually continue past the wall I hit at heat 19.

[verbal atlas]

what pacts were you playing with?

[deft ferry]

Lasting Consequences 1
Jury Summons 1
Extreme Measures 3
Benefits Package Max
Middle Management Max
Approval Process 1
Tight Deadline 1

[verbal atlas]

what is your average clear time?

[deft ferry]

To generalize, around 19-24 min. Haven't done any actual math, just getting this from a glance over my times

[verbal atlas]

you can most definitely do tight deadline 2 then

[deft ferry]

I'll try changing something out for that. Any specific suggestions?

[verbal atlas]

probably lower extreme measures and get rid of approval process, would recommend at least trying to play with some level of forced overtime

[deft ferry]

Alright. I'll give that a shot next time I get a chance 2 play. Got d&d after work tomorrow so don't really have the time.

I also don't rlly have much trouble with extreme measures 1 and 2, so if I did lower it I would only do so by 1 level. Level 3 has ended some runs I thought had high potential

[forest token]

if your goal is 32 heat, i'd keep em3 for experience tbh

dropping jury summons and approval process is prob the big things

underworld customs should be taken

[deft ferry]

Alright, I'll try swapping those in/out. Always seemed like jury summons wasn't a big deal to me due to having so much extra time at the end, but I guess people who have gotten to higher heat would know what causes issues as time goes on

Also idk why I wasn't doing underworld customs, I think i just had it in my head that it was a rough thing to grab but thinking about how easy it is to get something u don't care about idk why I was worrying abt it

[static moth]

Anyone got a build for 32 heat

[upper juniper]

Heavily depends on the weapon/aspect you intend to use

[static moth]

Idc which one works best

[upper juniper]

On the whole, nemesis for sword; achilles or guan-yu for spear; zeus shield, rama for bow, demeter fists, hestia or eris rail

bow and shield have more good options btw those are just generally the best for heat, but you could use like zag or hera bow or zag or beowulf

So if any of those really click with you

[verbal atlas]

chiron is also genuinely pretty comfy if your aim is just for 32h, despite it being a little weaker

[upper juniper]

I personally just never want to recommend Chiron

[south violet]

"it works, but for the wrong reasons"

[static moth]

Ok I'll try them all ty

[honest crypt]

hera bow for first 32 heat!

[snow tusk]

Is there any point in trying to beat 21-31 heat individually? Or should i just try 32 heat?

As there are no bounties

[verbal atlas]

there isnt really an in game reward, but you could still do slight increments of heat (probably not just +1 every successful run) just to have more experience with runs with only slight changes from the last compared to a 12h jump it is also a decent skipping point if you want to just get it done with

[south violet]

That is to say, you can do it until 20 heat on every weapon to collect experience and resources, but past that there are no bounties and hence little point slowly incrementing 👍

Difficulty in hades is exponential, so the difference is only really felt between 0 and 20, between 20 and 32, between 32 and 40, between 40 and 45, between 45 and 50, and then in increments of 1 or 2.

[snow tusk]

Welp, made it to lernie at my first attempt xD. Lasting consequences are rough

[verbal atlas]

are you running stubborn defiance?

[snow tusk]

No i was running with death defiance but i realised as soon as i made it to chamber 6😂

Regarding heightened security, do they deal 400% increased damage to enemies as well?

[verbal atlas]

nope just to the player

[snow tusk]

Okay this is quite hard 🙂 i need to take it slow but i have 5 mins lol

[snow tusk]

I thought i would blaze through 32 as i did through 1-20

Was mistaken

[deft ferry]

Yea, I originally tried jumping right to 32 myself after I got the 16 reward. Def not the best idea. Think that's a large part of what burned me out on attempting to get to 32 honestly and why I'm only now picking it back up

[forest token]

there's a guide pinned in this channel that should help

[snow tusk]

Yes using that!

[honest crypt]

the guy who wrote that guide is very handsome and smart

[snow tusk]

I dont mind hitting my head over and over again at a roadblock

But... i could use some mirror pointers. Are they in the guide too?

I have it downloaded but...

Lemme check

[forest token]

yeah

mirror and pact are both in the guide

and builds

[snow tusk]

Yeah was following a screenshot i took from the guide

So had to check again for other stuff

[upper juniper]

Guide covers like pretty much everything

[snow tusk]

Yes. Got it. All that remains is for me to git gud

[snow tusk]

Does skelly's lucky tooth work with stubborn defiance?

Made it to styx and can really use an additional safety net

[verbal atlas]

yep, its gets placed to go off after the stubborn defiance (would recommend over tooth to do acorn if you have that maxed)

[snow tusk]

Im not too worried about hades as i usually dont die there. Worries about a random trap/one shot in the chambers

And i have acorn at 1 star

[verbal atlas]

oh yeah then def just tooth

[snow tusk]

Well here we go

First time styx at 32

2 minute 19 left for hades

Lucky tooth intact

💀

Lost anyway

[hoary pasture]

You'll get him eventually

[snow tusk]

I will!

[grand badger]

Legit working on being able to do tight deadline 3 rn, my only problem is tartarus

I average 5:40 on it

[deft ferry]

yea, i've tried tight dealines 3 b4 and tartarus is why I couldn't do it

[sly cove]

turn js off and fo on tbh

also prioritize free rooms and dont waste time

it shouldnt be that bad if u just intentionally are fast

[blissful atlas]

when should do you do heat 1? after getting all the rewards on heat 0 first?

[languid notch]

If you mean beat 0 heat with a weapon first, yes. Do the highest heat you can do with your favourite weapon, then try with another one.

And you get 10 titans blood for beating the game with every weapon, so definitely don’t forget to do that.

[vague patio]

I'm still trying to figure out how to do 32 heat on sword, but a big help has been to pick the god keepsake that ups my primary damage first (had been trying athena dash because I valued safety)

then the first pom or two can go into damage and really speed up room clears

[deft ferry]

After follow the suggestions given here and loosely following the guide, I already had 3 immediately successful runs last night which was my first night trying runs again. Felt really good

[grand badger]

Planning on doing a 32 heat nemisis run soon

[vague patio]

I'm still working my way up. currently done 25 heat and am working on 28

[snow tusk]

I tried tinkering with more enemies and more hp instead of lasting consequences. But i struggle with tight deadline 3, as in i have 10 seconds left after elysium lol

32 heat btw

Chiron

[shy plinth]

Calisthenics program is one of the worst heat pacts period

It's quite common for people to take pacts that slow you down and then struggle with td3 - and chiron is already slow and single target focused

Would def avoid both cp and js on chiron for 32. Sd+lc4 is gonna be way easier overall

[snow tusk]

I agree. But its fun nonetheless tinkering with the settings

Abbreviations arent my strong suit

Lc is lasting consequences and sd is..?

[shy plinth]

Stubborn defiance

That's on the mirror instead of deaths defiance

It effectively lets you "heal"

Puts more pressure on your bosses but way less on your rooms

[ashen garnet]

In any case: #h1-high-heat-strategies message 📌

[snow tusk]

Yes thank you both

I am aware of the guide(s)

[static moth]

Anyone knows what the best keepsake is for 32heat

[upper juniper]

on the whole, you should start with the most important god for your build to force them in, then in asphodel swap to the second most important god for your build. In elysium you can grab utility keepsakes like purse for coins or hourglass for super longlasting buffs, or defensive keepsakes like acorn or tooth. Styx will pretty much just be something defensive like tooth

A maxed hourglass will let you take a number of buffs from the stairs area between Elysium and Styx straight to the Hades fight if you 2sack (52% of the time)

[static moth]

Oh then what's the best god for spear

[vague patio]

name does not check out

[static moth]

?

[upper juniper]

Each aspect has like at least one

I may refer you to the 32 heat guide pinned in this channel bc it goes over builds for each weapon, but also your mirror and your pact

Half because I need to get back to studying and half bc Bananas did put a good amount of work into it and it’s a rather good resource

[static moth]

Oh ok ty

[vague patio]

That user is named shackle, yet gives perfectly reasonable non shackle suggestions to someone asking about keepsakes

[snow tusk]

Is there a way to increase these odds?

[south violet]

LMAO I wish

No, you can however take a miniboss as second tunnel too to waste less time in the event you don't get the sack after 2nd

[honest crypt]

install mods

[snow tusk]

On the nintendo switch 2? 💀

I usually go a hard room first and depending on time i pick a hard room or an easier room. Hard rooms generally faster

If i have meg stacks

[sly cove]

play on viable hardware 👍

miniboss is always faster than the big room yeah

[snow tusk]

Switch 2 is my oreferred method of playing rn. Im fine not modding

[sly cove]

im judt trollinh

i do think hourglass generally is not that worth cuz em3 heroes are no joke

just run acorn

i think its like 70% for 2 or 3 sack which is reasonable

[deft ferry]

There's a few really cool/conventient looking mods but I get so worried about losing my save even if I back it up don't wanna lose all the effort I've put in, esp once I actually reach my heat goal

[sly cove]

how r u gonna lose ur save if u back it up

😭

[verbal atlas]

bc I will eat it

[sly cove]

fatass

[snow tusk]

What is making hades' attacks faster?

Forced overtime?

[upper juniper]

If you have it on, then yeah that’d be it

[snow tusk]

Ive been bamboozled 3 times at hades now at 32 heat

Feel like i should turn it off, keep getting screwed over there

[shy plinth]

What's your pact?

[snow tusk]

I just turned off my tv lol

Ok wait

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1425239465693020221/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_327bb8b3-1bc3-42b8-bd3c-cdcd7f09fa49.jpg?ex=68e6dd30&is=68e58bb0&hm=7aa64eb962700e0db5eddaa2eeb22afeeae55b210397a47a4f3ed295b4934aea&

[snow tusk]

There

[shy plinth]

That is quite a dificult pact

Why not TD3?

[snow tusk]

I stepped away from 5 minutes because i keep stressing over time

And making stupid mistakes

[shy plinth]

Were you getting close to 20 minute runs before?

[snow tusk]

15 minute runs

[shy plinth]

I'm a bit confused as to why you wouldn't want 20 minute runs then

TD3 is 20 minutes total

[snow tusk]

I know

[shy plinth]

If you were getting 15 minute runs before, you just have to play normally

[snow tusk]

I wasnt getting 15 minutes on this heat

[shy plinth]

Did you have other options that slowed you down?

[snow tusk]

But on +-20 heat

[snow tusk]

The benefits package slows me down

If i were to learn EM4 that would save me a ton of hassle in elysium

[shy plinth]

EM4 is NOT gonna make hades easier

That is a huge difficulty spike

[snow tusk]

I have rama equipped in the pic but i am using chiron btw.

[snow tusk]

I know!

[vague patio]

up td and down fo2?

[shy plinth]

Chiron is gonna be slower either way

[vague patio]

or down hl

[shy plinth]

The play I would make here is to go up to TD3 and drop Hard labor

[vague patio]

can you do damage control 2?

[snow tusk]

Yes im aware, that is my self imposed challenge 🙂

[snow tusk]

Thing is i already have no hp

So what is the difference here

[snow tusk]

Never did it

[shy plinth]

What are you dying to then

Does hades one shot you from full health? I'm confused

[snow tusk]

I am never full health at hades

Lasting consequences

[shy plinth]

Right, I mean that's expected

[snow tusk]

No he doesnt one shot me, more like 2/3

It is a skill issue, i know..

[shy plinth]

So here's the thing - you're going to have to learn two of three things to effectively clear 32 heat.
-TD3 (which you were already doing before with 15 minute runs)
-Forced Overtime
-Hard labor

The hardest combination is FO2+HL

You will have to practice and clean up your boss fights. But it is a hell of a lot easier to practice moving with precision and speed as opposed to getting killed by hades sweeps for making one mistake

32 is hard and you'll have to invest the time+energy into it either way, and I believe you can do it

But I wouldn't want you to make it harder on yourself

[upper juniper]

The timing is something you can adjust to

You just need more practice

[snow tusk]

Hat does have a point tho

Fo plus hl is lethal

[shy plinth]

Yeah

So do FO+TD

That's what I did for 32 on all aspects. Quite similar to your pact actually, just a few tweaks

TD3 instead of TD2, no CF, HL1 instead of HL3

[upper juniper]

I should find some of my earliest 32 heat pacts you’d be bamboozled

[vague patio]

can chiron do dc?

[snow tusk]

Chiron needs that first hit to lock, dc seems harder than for rama imo

[shy plinth]

Have you posted your mirror, btw

[vague patio]

first hit will still lock I am pretty sure, just no damage

[snow tusk]

But to summarize, this

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1425242024524906496/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_65d9afe0-5e89-4125-b567-18ba09e05979.jpg?ex=68e6df92&is=68e58e12&hm=f2a39ccf05a0025b252c6a3bedc822b251824b1a591bc0f8896f67706005fb18&

[vague patio]

so you lock and special and first special eats the 2nd heart

[snow tusk]

No but i could.

[shy plinth]

This or CF0/HL1, yeah

This is what I'd personally recommend. But it is possible to do HL5/FO0 with CF2 if you'd really rather

Personally I like getting used to FO

[snow tusk]

For higher heat runs? I assume this is the timing there so might as well adjust

[shy plinth]

Yeah, for anything over 32, you basically need FO

[upper juniper]

I wouldn’t like

[snow tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1425242665506701415/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_4c3a2f0d-e7e1-4bf7-b2bf-a1bda338fd3c.jpg?ex=68e6e02b&is=68e58eab&hm=b56e1455a53ddeec653a3c1cedaa91811d4b1175945f4fc7fee3805f2df9be0f&

[upper juniper]

not till way high heat

[shy plinth]

Mirror seems fine, I'm not sure if chiron is supposed to take fiery or shadow

My instinct is shadow

[upper juniper]

Bow strike is pretty sizeable and will scale super hard if you miss your special hammers

[snow tusk]

Most late game enemies i dont even use special on anymore unless they are chunky

[shy plinth]

Like bosses?

[snow tusk]

Basically play dash strike zagreus minus the crit bonus

But yes, i do use it on bosses

[shy plinth]

Yeah I mean just a question about where your pain points are

I don't know the right call for Chiron specifically

[upper juniper]

I think you definitely want fiery for hangover, and there might be an arguement for shadow on a +%/ artemis crit build

[snow tusk]

I like to go artemis spec, aphro att, pos/ath dash

If i dont get art spec, i go art att and find dio spec

I dont like aphro spec

[upper juniper]

arte attack?

over aphro?

[snow tusk]

I start with artemis

[upper juniper]

oh

[snow tusk]

I mean

No bueno?

[upper juniper]

this is what seeding is for

Nah it’s fine

splitting headache is just like

really mid compared to low tolerance

[snow tusk]

I guess. If i get the chance to swap i do so tho

Just want another opportunity for artemis spec then

I dont reset runs

Not saying its optimal but that is just my thoughts

In general, i die before making it to hades. Mostly in elysium and rarely because of time
(Unless i do some silly stuff like +hp or + enemies)

[snow tusk]

To answer this

[shy plinth]

Have you recorded any runs

[snow tusk]

No

Cant either, unless i literally film my screen

Did not realise fo was such a spike

Also i definitely feel like i get screwed sometimes with some rooms.

[upper juniper]

As someone who’s been doing a lot of unrecorded speedrunning unmodded (cuz I’m on switch) I’ve just started seeding my runs based on the cores offered

[snow tusk]

Seeding?

[upper juniper]

If you hit give up, it puts you back in the house of Hades prior to run start

with the same seed

Since the options and rarities of the starting stay the same regardless of which godkeepsake you choose

[snow tusk]

But can you "give up" after dying?

[upper juniper]

No

If I’m missing one option at the start of a run that I need you, I could switch weapon to one that cares about those other options, or swap keepsake to get a god I care about like

so you can kinda ensure you start with something usable

[snow tusk]

I see, just to get starts more comsistent

[upper juniper]

yeah

[snow tusk]

For now, the semi randomness is part of my challenge

I want to defeat hades on 32 heat with chiron

[upper juniper]

especially when merciful end builds damage swings by so much based on agony rarity (a matter of starting with 50 doom damage vs 100)

or like

[snow tusk]

But after that i will definitely use that

[shy plinth]

It's entirely possible to do so, just needs practice

[upper juniper]

cast builds that would pop off harder with an epic cast than my current run would with a common zeus special

[shy plinth]

But the pact and mirror that you posted above are good enough for 32

[upper juniper]

Very doable

[snow tusk]

I know

As this noob can get to him quite well

[upper juniper]

I’ve seen the most atrocious builds and pacts used for 40 heat chiron

on ribbit

it literally gives me like second-hand pain when I see one

[snow tusk]

Like zeus special and dio on attack or smth?

While the lightning only procs once

[upper juniper]

2 hour long run with js3/ cp2 / dc2 /bp2 and td0

[snow tusk]

I mean...

[upper juniper]

lets just add way more enemies to the bow aspect with the least aoe capabilities

and make every enemy super beefy while we’re at it

[snow tusk]

Gotta respect the grind no?

[upper juniper]

To an extent

it’s also just painful to see bc I know each one of those posted is another potential source of chiron fans

[snow tusk]

I really like chiron

I realise its not the best option

But i wouldnt like that setup

[upper juniper]

I mean the guys that live and die by the aspect (and usually heavily, heavily overvalue it)

[snow tusk]

I genuinely think i can beat 32 heat in 5 runs from now with rama

Zeus special pew pew

Or smth

[upper juniper]

Funnily enough

[deft ferry]

Cause I'm stupid, that's how. I'll accidentally delete the backup somehow

[upper juniper]

Rama is one of the few aspects I haven’t completed 32 with yet

despite it being the heat aspect

[snow tusk]

I challenge you

To do a zeus 32 heat clear with rama

Before i clear my 32 chiron

[upper juniper]

bruh

Where’s my switch

[snow tusk]

Looking forward to the victory screen😂

[upper juniper]

One attempt I think

Then I need to make dinner

or actually if I lock in I can do both at once

[snow tusk]

Im in bed so if you got it now you win 🙂

Not playing until tomorrow

[upper juniper]

It’s been a few weeks since I played a run so it’ll take a while to shake off the rust but I did get a bunch of Rama experience when I was trying to sub9 with it

[snow tusk]

Well, good luck!

Ping me, ill probably still be awake

[vague patio]

If I'm trying 32 heat nemesis should I take aphro or arty first? I also need Athena for safety but I think I defer that one to get my damage up first

[upper juniper]

tdash the aphro strike start is a lot more consistent

[vague patio]

What is the reference to tdash? Is Zeus another build

[verbal atlas]

tidal dash

[sly cove]

start w aphro yea

[elfin delta]

Heya so I wanna listen to the hades 3rd stage music. Compared to the rest of his fight, how difficult is he? Like 2x?

[south violet]

It's basically impossible to give you a precise mumeric estimate one would agree with universally

A lot of the heats synergize in some ways, and EM4 is one of those heats that's fine early on but makes the run exponentially more difficult as others are added, but becomes necessary to use when the player runs out of worse options in the pact.

[vague patio]

it's 128% more difficult, exactly

and everyone agrees

[south violet]

Somewhere between 50 and 55 depending on aspect is where one can reasonably start using it for the heat it provides. Before that point, using it just makes the run unnecessarily harder than it needs to be.

If all you want is to listen to the music, it's freely available on various music-streaming sites (youtube music, spotify, you name it)... or you can just do a 10 heat EM4 run and win handily.

[vague patio]

you can also order it through the contractor and play it anytime in the house of hades

[south violet]

Need to have been to em4 last phase for that, but yes

[vague patio]

oh really? didn't know that

[south violet]

Imagine if the game spoiled em4 p3 before the player saw em4 p3

[snow tusk]

Chiron

[vague patio]

I guess that makes sense

though it wouldn't really be a story spoiler, just that there's music somewhere

[snow tusk]

If you have aphro att epic and art spec epic, would you swap spec for aphro hero?

[upper juniper]

Do you have extra special additive from other sources (like at least an extra +50-60%)? If yes, the crits should make more damage on average

[snow tusk]

So dont swap is what youre saying

[upper juniper]

Don’t swap in this case (which I’m assuming is chiron special since you mentioned it)

[snow tusk]

Yes!

And thats what i did

Or didnt swap rather

[snow tusk]

Ayyyy i did it

#h1-victory-boasting message

[shy plinth]

Well done!

[snow tusk]

Skipped the final shop

As time was pretty close

Just 35 seconds left in the end

Thing is, this wasnt my best run by far, rng wise

What do i do now with my life

[shy plinth]

Well now you get 32 with the other weapons

And then the other aspects

And then you push more heat

Alternatively, you can play H2...

[upper juniper]

Nah

why do that when you have H1

[shy plinth]

I mean I get it

[night locust]

Anyone find the Rivals frustrating with high heat

Not in a fun way, more or less in a 'this is too god damn much' way

[shy plinth]

Rivals?

Do you mean theseus+asterius?

[night locust]

WHOOPS

[shy plinth]

It takes some getting used to but once you get used to killing Bull first I think it's actually not too bad

Champs I think

[night locust]

Wrong discussion point

I meant H2

[shy plinth]

Aha

[night locust]

I actually like the champs in H1

[shy plinth]

Same

Asterius is a homie tbh

[night locust]

H2 Rivals is just so much nonsense on the screen

[shy plinth]

I'll trust you, haven't gotten that far in h2 yet

[night locust]

It's a v fun game and thankfully different from H1

Given my only complaint about the game is 'added heat mechanic that is to bust your brain some' I think it's high enough praise

[shy plinth]

With what I've played, I agree 🙂 But probably a discussion for another channel so that we can spare the mods some work

But I wish you the best of luck with the rivals

[snow tusk]

I might go for speed now

Im doing the railgun one with the 75% att boost

Forgot the name

[shy plinth]

Eris

[snow tusk]

Thanks

[shy plinth]

After playing chiron, everything will feel like you're going for speed

[snow tusk]

There is fun in going fast with something slow

Dont hate on my bae

[shy plinth]

Chiron's ok! But it's slow lol

[snow tusk]

I know it has its downsides but i had so much fun

[upper juniper]

No hate chiron is just slower

[snow tusk]

Kinda wanna get everything max hearts

[upper juniper]

The special takes years and it’s primarily single target damage

[shy plinth]

Feels like the... second slowest aspect in the game?

[snow tusk]

Yeah i know dw.

[shy plinth]

Behind chaos

Maybe arthur idk

[snow tusk]

So satisfying

Idk what it is

[upper juniper]

Chiron is slow if you’re building around the gimmick anyways

[snow tusk]

Maybe its that of the 80 hrs i have been playing like 60 with chiron

[upper juniper]

it’s pretty decent if you just play it as discount zagbow

[snow tusk]

So im levels above skillwise with it comparatively

Idk when i feel like im done with this game but it doesnt feel like anytime soon

Paid 6,99 for it, mind you. Insane value

[upper juniper]

I’m still not done and I recently hit Unseen One on my main profile after like 600 hours in that save alone

[snow tusk]

Might buy a physical copy just to support the devs

[snow tusk]

What is that?

[upper juniper]

I got it on steam so I could play it without my switch

The final resource director rank

[snow tusk]

Ah the prestige stuff

Yeah not even at that point yet

I could... but

But shackle

Did i win our "bet"?

[upper juniper]

My one attempt did die to p2 Hades 💔

so yeah

[snow tusk]

So close

Gave you plenty of time tho

[upper juniper]

Eh tbh I mainly had time from like

6:30-6:50 last night and then 12:00pm-4:00pm today but I lowkey took a nap

[snow tusk]

All in good fun, we both know you couldve 🙂

[upper juniper]

I was really hedging it on one run so like you won

[snow tusk]

Extra difficulty

Idk if other weapons are easier than chiron for 32

But it was a slight curve

From 20 heat

[vague patio]

empowered reload gun is pretty easy to pick up for 32 heat if you're used to the "skirt around dodging attacks" pattern of the bow

just have to learn the button press pattern and it's fairly similar style

[upper juniper]

I can name a number of them I’d rather use

for each weapon

[snow tusk]

I remapped reload to a better button