h1-high-heat-strategies

[upper juniper]

uhh

I always get power couple when thwomp comes back down

[left prism]

#1232563075916234752 message go learn

is super simple

[forest token]

this man didn't even read my 32 heat guide

[upper juniper]

I’ve actively been putting off learning battie set ups ok

I keep telling myself I can sub8 wirhout them and I’m stubborn

[forest token]

i mean you definitely can

the only set up that exists is 4 witches basically

and bombers i guess

but i never learned bombers until much later

i think after sub6 lmfao

[verbal atlas]

think of the sub7 w/ them tho

[south violet]

Idkman 0cycle sneak and 0cycle couple exist

(Not on Damage Control)

[forest token]

True but also I don't think you really need them for like sub8 lmao

Def helps but those set ups are a lot harder to do I would think

[sly cove]

bombers is another one i just vibe and usually 3/4

[sly cove]

u can 100% sub8 without them im p sure i sub7d without them

[silver mica]

any tips for 32 heat on shield? i breezed through 20 just using aphro cast + divine dash on beo and forgot how to actually strategize

[delicate knoll]

what pact are you running, it's pretty important for 32

[silver mica]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1357434078990827580/screenshot.jpg?ex=688c6a40&is=688b18c0&hm=a53da271555eb342e92cc193aa1e6abc1802e4ad0b48a493fc94e615e7877b85&=&format=webp&width=1304&height=734 same one as i did for this rama run
i've experimented a bit with moving dc to other things though

its fairly different from the recommended one but lc4, fo2, and td3 are all such a pain for me
willing to try moving things around though

[upper juniper]

Wait

[delicate knoll]

well if you're playing beo then dc2 has to go

[upper juniper]

how do you have so much turned on for 32

that seems like a massive pact for

[delicate knoll]

no fo2 or td3

[upper juniper]

yeah

[delicate knoll]

those are each worth big heat

[upper juniper]

I just realised that

[silver mica]

its not too bad once i get divine dash but yeah it sucks before then

[upper juniper]

mm

divine dash is your dc fix 💀

what the cursed

[delicate knoll]

switch dark regen with cthonic vitality

[silver mica]

oh yeah i did

[delicate knoll]

and drop dc2 for literally anything else

even ap1 is better than dc2 on slow weapons

[silver mica]

fair

[upper juniper]

tbh if you aren’t going for a cast build just use stygian soul for better hermes odds

unless you’re building for eos

rod

beautiful typo

[silver mica]

rod?

[upper juniper]

Lightning rod

[silver mica]

ah

my strategy through 20 was straight up taking aphro cast and pomming it like crazy, i didn't build for any duos or legendaries

[south violet]

JS1 CP1 HS for a 32 heat pact gets a massive yikes from me, chief

[forest token]

Also guide pinned here to look at lmao

[quiet acorn]

written by pineapple

[silver mica]

I'm keeping HS for sure, the occasional Styx death is annoying but I've gotten pretty good at avoiding them

I'll look at taking the others off

[shy plinth]

HS is a very expensive single point

Hades jars count as traps

Would be surprised if it was worth the risk at 32

[sly cove]

true

bad news

[sly cove]

what the mickey

fo2 td3 is unironically such free heat

if u just learn it

[silver mica]

Everything is free heat if you just learn it

[delicate knoll]

objectively wrong 🫵 😭

[sly cove]

ap2:

😭😭😭😭

[feral plover]

i like hl5 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 td3

hl5 fo2 is hardly as bad as it sounds

[sly cove]

em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 td3 is a good base

add on hl5 lc4 cf2 hs dc2 to season

[shy plinth]

This is already 27, ez hl1 lc4 here

Could also go hl5 cf2 and drop fo completely if you felt like it, though I agree that learning fo2 is worth

[sly cove]

ye

or hl5

i think thats what i did

[shy plinth]

That works though I think I wouldn't recommend hl5 fo2 td3 to most people doing 32 for the first time

They're all good things to learn for higher pushes but it's a tough combination to learn all at once

[sly cove]

i was really bad at dad fight so i did hl5 fo2 so i could have 3 dds for dad lmao

lc4 feels reliant on patty/athena dd tbh

if u have skill issue

[shy plinth]

It did take a while to adapt to lc4 but also I had so many bad habits I'd learned on lower heat

Just facetanked dad instead of like doing the fight

[sly cove]

true

learning the timing for 3 swipe attack is big

[shy plinth]

Yeah the sweeps are the real thing

That's why acorn is so valuable in that fight

It's like 400 saved damage once you're only getting hit by sweeps

[sly cove]

ngl i think i get hit by the random boiling blood throws more

but acorn is huge fs

[urban lynx]

What do these numbers mean 😭
I recently beat 12 heat and wanted to hop on this channel but im lost with all the abbreviations
Is there a wiki somewhere ?

[delicate knoll]

they're the pact names and their level

[urban lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/fig-gif-26092737

Thanks lmao

[delicate knoll]

#h1-high-heat-strategies message

[verbal atlas]

(moving over here as its maybe more appropriate) how bad is this for a 32h worst pact contender? lc4, js3, em4, cp2, ri4, and ap2

[upper juniper]

mmm

that sounds similiar to the one we had Bananas do a while back

I think it’s pretty solid

[verbal atlas]

now that im running it im considering whether or not js3 should be swapped out to smthn like UC or some pain levels

js3 is only really bad if you have timer on

[forest token]

nah frei's is worse lmao

mine was just like em4 fo2 ri4 basically

or like not that much

build still existed iirc

[upper juniper]

JS3 is morale degradation

[verbal atlas]

fo0 sucks more than fo2 bc all of my muscle memory goes right out the window

[forest token]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1246634164351143966/image.png?ex=6892ad8a&is=68915c0a&hm=50b3419bd1e3df120077e143652afcefb9ba9af61d7e4373e039df2f3f516c05&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1536&height=864

accidentally did 34

but you can drop like uc for lc2 or something idk

or not do fo2 and put on worse pacts

[verbal atlas]

fo1 🔥

[sly cove]

idk if js3 is that bad tbh

but also like idk

[verbal atlas]

starting to agree with that yeah

[verbal atlas]

it really isnt

[sly cove]

what is bad tho

[verbal atlas]

the ri4 is kinda pain

[sly cove]

uc? is normally free heat but without df and with ap2 is pretty bad

[sly cove]

nah i mean beyond the ri4 ap2 em4

ri4 ap2 em4 is what

24?

i think lc4 is an auto include

[verbal atlas]

28 no? ri4 is 12 em4 is 12 as well and ap2 is 6(?)

[sly cove]

oh is ri4 12

im pretty sure em4 is 10

1+2+3+4 right

i know ri1 is 2

[verbal atlas]

each ri stack is 2

oh wait

thats 8

[sly cove]

💀💀💀💀

we got some math geniuses here

[verbal atlas]

certified number knower

[sly cove]

which makes 28, cp2 makes 30,

last one u either do uc or hl1 hs1?

or wait

does mm affect superdad

and if it does does it actually matter

[verbal atlas]

uhhh well ima bout to find out 💀

[sly cove]

dude what even is mm sneak is it just it summons wringers

i know bombers is theres 4 of them, doomstone changes the room, power couple is the shockwave and the teleporting, witches is they shoot the big shots, barge is like 2 strong waves instead of 5 normal waves?

styx stuff is all 2 minibosses

[verbal atlas]

seemingly not

[sly cove]

whats butterfly ball

is it armor on the blue men

wait no its the teleporting right

[upper juniper]

bball

teleporting yeah

[sly cove]

idk if the blue men are armored without mm cuz i never turn it off for heat and i always instakill it in speedruns

[verbal atlas]

always armored iirc

[delicate knoll]

barge gets a singular wave that has a special crystal miniboss, it has massive health and gives invincibility in a big range

[quiet acorn]

this is the 32 meta

[sly cove]

ohh right i remember that

[low snow]

chat

i need your prayers

im gonna beat heat 32

with EM 4

actually not EM 4

i forgot lol

[quiet acorn]

I am praying for you

[quiet acorn]

did you win yet

[sly cove]

idk

[obtuse mauve]

Noob here. What is the easiest 32 heat pact?

[verbal atlas]

in the pins there are some 32 heat guides that can help create an easy pact

[past turtle]

Attempted 40 heat with EM4 for the first time last night, made it to hades after a few tries ||only to get trampled to death by Cerberus ☠️😭||

[forest token]

Wouldn't recommend em4 for 40 heat lmao

[past turtle]

Never again ☠️
Which pacts should I take instead

[sly cove]

hl5 lc4 cf2 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 td3

i think this is 37?

fill it out with hs/js/ap/dc depending on weapon

[stray pike]

I would avoid the timer ones at all costs, since it immediately forced yoy to play very aggro. Get used to the increased move/attack speed on lower heats, then you will be good to keep it on. And if you don’t mind taking a few more runs to get it, remove the bottom few layers of the mirror

I’ve found bottom tire mirror only adds customizing, not survivability

[past turtle]

TD3 is calm tho

[past turtle]

Aigh ima give it a shot

[sly cove]

this is like

the opposite

of what u should be doing

[upper juniper]

The timer isn’t really an issue unless you’re building or playing poorly, at least until other heats start comboing really badly (like 50+)

[sly cove]

td3 is very free heat

ri1 is bad cuz u lose one of the only avenues to get a better build (dark foresight and rerolls)

ri2 is worse cuz tart with 50 max hp is lol

dont even think abt ri3/4

[stray pike]

I play very poorly, and barely beat 32ht, so that makes sense.

[upper juniper]

It happens like

You just gotta keep at it

[stray pike]

Tbh, haven’t barely touched Hades1 since I got all 3 skelly statues, mostly just playing to keep in shape for Hades2 drop

[upper juniper]

As far as I know

Hades 2 is a very differently paced game

~your analytical skills should transfer at the very least

It’s less dash focused from what I’ve heard

[upper juniper]

either poorly or overly defensively* mind you

[past turtle]

So how do we heal with LC4 😭

[ivory drum]

Stubborn defiance

[upper juniper]

Max hp gain

[sly cove]

way less bro im like trash now cuz i cant spam dash to dodge everything

[sly cove]

sd + centaur hearts

• tooth

[upper juniper]

Did you do the lvl50 ddash run or was that someone else and you just took the name

[sly cove]

no that was me

[upper juniper]

Cool

[sly cove]

not that i can find the image anymore

[upper juniper]

I wanna do a run where I pom high voltage out the wazoo

[sly cove]

ts is def gone

[upper juniper]

but I’m trying to figure out if the strat is to aim for sweet nectar or just to only have the two boons

[sly cove]

why does every giant computer based company have to make themselves continually worse

[sly cove]

u go sweet nectar and then purge the supporting

whats high voltage again

[upper juniper]

+radius to lightning bolts

[sly cove]

oh

💀

yea so not having a core is pretty bad because u cant get an exchange (the easiest way)

[upper juniper]

wdym

[sly cove]

u still def need sweet nectar tho

adds so many over the course of the run

[upper juniper]

I figured it’d just have to be like tdash / aphro strike / zeus special and then purge the two

and afterwards I might do the same thing with the blade size secondary

[sly cove]

yeah but like its bad because if the boon isnt exchangeable then u cant start feeding it early

[upper juniper]

Ohhhhh

makes sense

I’m not aiming for like

Lvl 50 here

Tbh even lvl10 should be snowburst size

depending on rarity*

Oh sidenote

as far as I have checked, pmuch every boon goes linear scaling after level 7

Or right at 7

If not earlier depending on how small the numbers were

[upper juniper]

Did you run fated authority (room rerolls)

or persuasion

[sly cove]

fauth

only way to get that many poms

i routed it btw if it wasnt obvious

[upper juniper]

I figured

I’m only hoping for like

10-20

[sly cove]

that should be pretty easy lol

[sly cove]

gdi

tried to run hades and game keeps going black on me

[sly cove]

oml how do ppl run ME

[left prism]

Just get the boons™

[ashen garnet]

Strict reset points mostly. Might need to accept some non-me-core boons until you get the 2/3 boons and the duo. Planning ahead to get ME by lernie/early styx is reasonable

Recommend not going for ME on AP2 unless you want to gamble and lose most of the time

[sly cove]

i was running speed and i still idndt get it while using all my rerolls

[sage valve]

ME?

[verbal atlas]

Merciful end, duoboon between athena and ares

[sage valve]

Ohhh sorry

[sly cove]

yes you

[sage valve]

Lmao.

Took me a second.

[chilly venture]

what’s the best high-heat but nearly-no-actual-gameplay-difference setup?

Extreme measures is obvious

[shy plinth]

Think it depends on what you'd define as "no actual gameplay difference"

If we're talking high heat you're not going to avoid some combination of forced overtime or hard labor

And like middle management and benefits package are basically necessary

[chilly venture]

No actual gameplay difference as in like
changing as little as possible Outside of minor changes to how basic enemies work and the boss fights themselves

like benefits package is basically nothing cuz they’re still gonna die just as fast

[shy plinth]

Not sure I would agree with that full sentence, but BP is well within the ballpark of "keep it on and you just get used to it"

[chilly venture]

Making them faster is nothing, but adding more enemies is gag noise

Cause that’s just adding extra time

[shy plinth]

The two most recommended 32 heat pacts are:
EM3 TD3 MM BP2 UC LC4 HL5 CF2
EM3 TD3 MM BP2 UC LC4 HL1 FO2

Would argue those pacts are all solid baselines to get used to. There's cumulative impact but there's nothing devastating there

It might be easier to also work in reverse and identify which pacts have larger scale gameplay impact

Things like routine inspection and calisthenics program, for example

And for some weapons/aspects, damage control is massive

[forest token]

Certain BP combos might kill you tho lmao

Famously speeder cloner in Tartarus, or any speeder homing ranged enemies

[verbal atlas]

Seeker slugger witches on non shield

[sly cove]

speeder slugger chariots

😭

[verbal atlas]

58 damage!

[verbal atlas]

*when you have weak

[quiet acorn]

Tight deadline if you go fast already

Underworld customs also negligible

[delicate knoll]

my personal favorite are speeder witches that spawn those extra copies

what's the perk name?

[quiet acorn]

Clone?

[delicate knoll]

is that the perk name

speeder clone witches ❤️🥰

[verbal atlas]

Cloner 👍

[fast cliff]

I did 32 heat a while back with a few weapons and id like to get back to that but I wasn't very good at dodging especially with melee weapons and especially with the 40% enemy speed increase (i ended up generally doing 20% instead partially because of the minotaur in particular being ridiculous). What do I need to do to actually be better at this and is what are some builds that are mostly just basic melee attacks that might be nice to practice with. I tried aspect of nemesis but i found juggling the attacks being dashes with also trying to dodge really hard

[forest token]

best practice with fo2 is to just run it more at lower heat

you can practice with fo2 em3 if you found the bull fight really difficult with fo2

otherwise for builds, you can use the guide pinned here

sword doesn't use basic attacks, it uses dash strikes

so you want to be mindful of when to just empty dash and when to dash strike

[fast cliff]

i see

reading the guide i remembered i liked the rama bow, but i just tried a run with it and I had a hard time with the hades fight since I felt like it was really hard to do the main attack without taking hits

[verbal atlas]

are you doing standing strikes or dash strikes

also positioning is very important on rama

[sly cove]

always dash strike yeah

and if ur taking explosive shot its cooked

[verbal atlas]

nah

then just do pseudo rama

[sly cove]

💀

[left prism]

explosive rama got me the 50 win with it is fiiiiine

[verbal atlas]

repulse shot got me my 56 rama, is it fine? (just mildly point out the flaw 👍)

[left prism]

no the win doesn't count if it has repulse

[verbal atlas]

oh mb

[left prism]

apology accepted

[verbal atlas]

i'll run it back at 60 then and start repulse

and then refuse to get a second hammer

*a 60 em3 pact

[sly cove]

wait whats wrong w repulse isnt it just like free damage

i feel like ive known this at some point

[verbal atlas]

it can mess up line ups, and can cause certain erratic movements with enemies making them less predictable

[left prism]

even if it is free dmg compared vs like, almost any other hammer 😭

[sly cove]

oh right

well obviously like im not taking it over point blank or perfect or like

idk

what else is a good hammer other than twin and triple

im blanking

[left prism]

explosive :croven:

[sly cove]

ricochet?

that ones decent right

[left prism]

tbh idk the general opinion on that one

I prefer the pierce more often

[verbal atlas]

chain is fine?

but like

bad

it limits line ups

it gains advantage in bosses tho

especially for EM heroes

[sly cove]

yeah

idk like with zeus rama

then u use special for area control

and u usually dont line up more than 3 enemies in a row

[verbal atlas]

"u usually dont line up more than 3 enemies in a row" in ely rooms, more often than not you have much more than that for possible line ups, or like tart rooms with numb skulls where you can get insane value out of line ups

asphodel does still have some line ups but definitely fewer than the other regions

[fast cliff]

I try to dash trike but sometimes miss on it

[fast cliff]

how are you supposed to position?

[verbal atlas]

using the pillars in both the heroes and dad fight

[fast cliff]

besides lining up multiple guys in the regular rooms ig

I see

[verbal atlas]

like also timing to attack back to punish

[fast cliff]

i forgot about the pillar in the last fight

[verbal atlas]

a lot of it just comes with time

idk ive also done a fair amount of studying other players runs to see how they play and position themselves so i can implement the ideas back into my own runs

[sly cove]

idk maybe cuz i dont have js3 on but like

theres never enough guys in the room period

for me to line up that many in a row

[fast cliff]

What items are people generally looking for in the wells besides the extra death defiance?

[south violet]

aspect-dependent

also people don't run DDs in high heat, use the alternate version instead

[fast cliff]

the well death defiance also works with stubborn right? or does it not show up?

[south violet]

at some point rooms become significantly less consistent than the bosses, and one can get 4 heat for free through lasting consequences by running SD

[fast cliff]

i know the athena one works

<@&456908176877551658>

[south violet]

<@&456908176877551658>

[south violet]

charon well item for dds gets replaced with something that makes the defiance regenerate 10% more

[fast cliff]

ah

[south violet]

same goes for patty, 50% more

athena and chaos are exceptions

also, athena's refill only works as a refill, that is to say if the stubborn defiance slot is empty

whereas chaos works no matter what (though as usual only has a 1% chance of appearing per slot if eligible, and thus should not be relied upon)

[fast cliff]

do you actively want to kill yourself if you're in an athena room?

[south violet]

if you have a coreboon so you have defiance refills open? yes usually

easiest in asphodel (and sometimes ely) since all (or most, in the case of ely) have traps in them one can activate to lose sd after the encounter

[fast cliff]

the elysium traps work after the encounter?

[verbal atlas]

the egg bombs work yeah

[forest token]

https://tenor.com/view/haelian-hades-eggs-mistake-gif-19288335

[fast cliff]

lol

btw with tight deadline three what do you need the timer to say at the end of each area to not run out of time in elysium/styx?

[fast cliff]

also im currently using aspect of rama, (context: not sure what well items to look for)

i tried hestia and it seemed really busted with such a quick attack animation but I dont wanna bother getting the button chains down lol

[delicate knoll]

without jury summons and calisthenics programs you can usually pass elysium in less than 5 minutes

styx depends on your sack rng but idk i think 6 minutes should be enough

[fast cliff]

thanks

[verbal atlas]

for well items, cyclops jerky, nemesis crest, ignited ichor, touch of styx, and stygian shard are all really good with the last three being pretty universal

hestia usually has really strong early games but its damage can kinda fall off after asphodel and even more so entering styx

in general with td3 i try to leave with 2-3 remaining minutes exiting ely

but without calisthenic or jury summons you could probably end with an extra minute or two spare

[forest token]

on 50 heat rama i spend like all 5 mins in ely lmao
you generally get like a 4ish minute buffer from tart and aspho total so you're still going into styx fine
on 32 heat i'm sure you'll be fine lmao

rama doesn't really struggle with time unless you do like 0 grouping

[fast cliff]

I see

I think i'm just slow in general, my fastest run was 17 minutes

on like 9 heat with random things or something

is meg kinda bad with damage control?

[forest token]

it's still good, you just need to play around it more

be more mindful of it and don't mash it lmao

[verbal atlas]

(not sure if you are referring to the pact condition or not) meg is overall just the preferred summon as its allows for great armor stripping and bossing help, not something that is used im reg chambers tho

[fast cliff]

the pact condition, it seems to make her damage not operate well

[verbal atlas]

it is a learned thing for like line ups for smthn like heroes, bombers, witches, and power couple (gorgon head and skull slammer)

[fast cliff]

but maybe im missing something

[fast cliff]

heroes is the only one i know rn

[fast cliff]

like if you're vs heroes doesn't the lineup not work if you have damage control?

or is there time to shoot them with the special first

[verbal atlas]

nope it still works

its just insta special, tap up meg

and dont move for a sec just to make sure the meg direction isnt off

[fast cliff]

how does the meg direction work even it's so weird

[verbal atlas]

you can technically also insta meg and special and do it as well but that isnt like consistent

meg’s direction is always perpendicular to the way zag is facing

[fast cliff]

the distance seems totally random to me

[verbal atlas]

with it having a very slight period after being used that you can change the direction

for the target it chooses its based on the one closest to zag

for where it bases the line

[fast cliff]

i see

I also struggle with the sneak a lot, like i have no time to draw the bow and shoot it when it appears and it just takes forever and i usually take a good amount of damage

[verbal atlas]

for sneak, there is a timing to strip damage control on its first appearance with rama special

and then as soon as it teleports again you can meg to strip armor and start charging a shot

most of the time theres enough time for that shot to connect

my preferred order for second sneak teleport is
(if close) meg -> cast -> charge attack
(if far) meg -> charge attack

[fast cliff]

I think a lot of my time loss is just from taking damage and getting stunned out of shooting the bow in regular encounters with huge swarms, i think that's probably just skill issue / a practice thing though

[verbal atlas]

yeah huge swarms can be rather hard at first to deal with

best way is to spam special and then shared suffering value them

[upper juniper]

If sneak didn’t drop statuses when it disappears it would be 8x better 💔

[verbal atlas]

in most chambers theres enough space to even semi charge an attack to at least partially clear the horde

and you can also sometimes get away with small charges if its something like cloner numbskulls

[fast cliff]

the shared suffering only works on the main attack right?

[verbal atlas]

yep only the attack

[fast cliff]

do you meant hat are you defaulting to trying to charge the bow or just releasing it right away?

[verbal atlas]

idea is that you try and spread the shared suffering a lot before doing an attack

[verbal atlas]

for rama in particular you want to almost always do power shots

doing releases right away are mainly for dealing with those hordes of smaller value enemies (numbskulls, brimstone, witches, flamewheels, and gorgons to name some)

[fast cliff]

yeah thats what ive been doing, try to get the special on most things and then line up a charge shot

[verbal atlas]

thats the idea 👍

its a learned thing for sure

[fast cliff]

I find the attack pattern fairly intuitive button pressing wise

which is partially why i like the aspect, i dont have to be as annoyed by being screwed over by messing up button combinations

lining up multiple guys im not very consistent with

and yeah the main issue is just getting farmed by being knocked out of my main attack animation after spamming special

[verbal atlas]

properly distancing yourself from the enemy can help with that (most definitely something that comes with time to be clear)

you can also use stuff like the level geometry and enemy pathing to your advantage

ex: if a lout just attacked towards me i can confidently charge an attack behind them and be fine

[upper juniper]

Speaking of lining up multiple enemies

Does shared suffering have an itc

[verbal atlas]

wdym

like between procs?

[upper juniper]

I swear it feels like only the first enemy hit procs shared suffered

of a shot

[fast cliff]

i think it does all of them i think that's the point of the aspect

[verbal atlas]

no its every enemy, i can confidently say that

[upper juniper]

right

I feel like it should be hitting every enemy for way more damage then like

[verbal atlas]

it just doesn’t make a separate damage number per proc

[upper juniper]

right that explains it

[fast cliff]

tbh it's a really cool weapon glad the devs thought of the idea

[verbal atlas]

very much agree

[fast cliff]

to some extent i feel the opposite way about the shield aspects, they kinda make me wanna not play shield even though i really like the blocking and bull rush. Zeus shield is just... annoying and tedius it feels like, even if i still do fine with it, and beuwolf just feels boring to me idk. Chaos shield is a lot more fun for me but i end up doing worse with it than the others

but maybe that's just me being weird

and not wanting to play a 'worse' aspect

[verbal atlas]

there are some cases where shared suffering wont proc immediately
there have been some instances for me where in the lernie fight the shared suffering will only proc on one of the smaller heads once i got closer to it

[upper juniper]

Bugowulf is pretty crazy ngl

like

[verbal atlas]

beowulf is very boring tbh

its strong

but like

9-5 energy

[upper juniper]

idk I don’t really bullrush

[verbal atlas]

the charged flight propaganda 🥀

[upper juniper]

Charged flight is my beloved

I will not learn how to play discount hera properly

[verbal atlas]

also yeah zeus is very strong but its rotation ig i could see as difficult? idk it clicked pretty easily for me

[fast cliff]

I mostly just hate having to space the shield throw to get it to spin on hades or theseus or whatever

the rotation itself isn't too complex

also aspect of hera seems kinda similar to hestia? less complex button though

[verbal atlas]

hera has like one of the hardest inputting out of any aspect in the game

[verbal atlas]

? you bullrush into them on throw

it should have no time out for the proper rotation

[fast cliff]

hmm i may have been doing it wrong then, i dont remember it was like a year ago

maybe ill give it another shot

[fast cliff]

you mean spamming the load faster?

[verbal atlas]

would recommend looking at some high heat zeus clears to get an idea

[fast cliff]

or just knowing how many to load

[verbal atlas]

knowing how many to load, and knowing whether or not to load on in between every shot which can be done the fastest while also performing pseudotech meaning also using your special to animation cancel

[fast cliff]

oh right there's the special button thing

i saw that once and kinda didnt bother thinking about it since then

is it important?

[verbal atlas]

very important

[fast cliff]

ah

[verbal atlas]

for high dps output

its like 60% more damage

[upper juniper]

It’s rough without pseudotech I can’t imagine what it’s like with

[verbal atlas]

you get bad zag bow 😌

or atleast how i play it lol

i refuse to use psuedotech on bow

its one of the reasons why i prefer rama

but zagbow is my favorite bow (and maybe even favorite aspect/weapon)

[upper juniper]

zag bow is my strongest aspect lmao

Best time and highest heat

[forest token]

You can do pseudo tech on rama lmao

[verbal atlas]

ik but like its not ✨optimal✨

[forest token]

For some situations it's usable tho

Namely like low HP targets nearby you can low charge

Like eyeballs

I can't remember who but someone used it in a rama run

[verbal atlas]

yeah but i mean you still dont have to do that for clearing, and for the most part i'll still try to do line ups and shared suffering tags to deal with the remaining enemies

[fast cliff]

I feel like with rama hera my damage scaling vs later bosses kinda sucks, is that normal or am I not picking the right boons

or does rarity on your cast boon matter a lot?

the cast does an ok amount of damage when I shoot it but then it's stuck for a while and I'm not doing a lot during that time

[verbal atlas]

do you mean with hera?

[fast cliff]

sorry yes hera

i mistyped

[verbal atlas]

rama only utilizes cast for the +50%

[fast cliff]

i know

for me rama was doing more dps vs bosses but that seems wrong?

[verbal atlas]

yeah hera has bad late game dps

rama just doesnt really struggle with dps ever

its the reason why it has the 50H speed wr

waht cast were you using for hera?

[fast cliff]

aphrodite

[verbal atlas]

yep, even then its late game dps can struggle👍

[fast cliff]

I got aphrodite cast, the funny demeter boon, and then tried to get random artemis stuff mostly

[verbal atlas]

rarity isnt all too important, but epic is always better than common ofc

[fast cliff]

losing out on late dps for me feels really painful because the hades fight is still where i die the most

although i have had way more luck dashing into his attacks than away

if i dont have the casts loaded to then shoot them afterwards though im just in a game of dodging a bunch before i can pick them up and probably taking a bunch of damage to summons or missing my dodges over time

if he summons armored chariots i feel like im always just 😵 regardless of aspect

[verbal atlas]

do you know the chariots dodge? its only really consistent against 1 but its smthn

[fast cliff]

i dont

is it to just run through them?

oh i just noticed the hera heat record is on trippy shot

[verbal atlas]

if you dash into them they will stop

[fast cliff]

i see

[fast cliff]

is that a consideration for damage control pact or better scaling or what

[verbal atlas]

if i had to guess the heat record uses trippy bc of the aoe and stunning

[fast cliff]

the guide was saying only use aphrodite

[verbal atlas]

DC isnt taken on any bow except rama really

[delicate knoll]

the heat record also runs ap2 so you have to use whatever you get

[verbal atlas]

important to also note what keepsake they actually started with

[fast cliff]

oh i was looking at the modded leaderboard oops

the vanilla one uses crush shot

[verbal atlas]

yeah i believe angelic's run uses attack start too

[fast cliff]

yeah thats why they have trippy shot i guess

[verbal atlas]

and yeah waiting between cast pickups can be really bad on hera

its why for my 50h (modded) i went ahead and just did attack start and played it like i would zag bow

[fast cliff]

I tried zeus shield again and i still dont really like it tbh, gonna try more aspects ig

zag shield ability is a bit plain but i'd probably find it more fun

[fast cliff]

is poseidon sword any good or is it just worse than hera as a cast weapon

[delicate knoll]

it's fun to use with exit wounds

[upper juniper]

ItMs more like a worse achilles

[delicate knoll]

generally all the swords are kinda weak, except nemesis which is just "good"

[verbal atlas]

as a castspect? yeah its just kinda bad at high heat u kinda just want chop but the cast buff gives it some more options for usabe boons

[upper juniper]

bc the +% given is more analagous

[fast cliff]

is achilles actually good if you dont hit the good hammer?

or is that mostly a big decider in speedruns moreso than heat

[verbal atlas]

good hammers are pretty much always a big decider

or maybe not like

32 or 40?

exception to this being hestia as its pretty hammer agnostic out of all the aspects

[fast cliff]

with achilles is it best to start with a given cast boon or do you just go tidal dash and pick the first good cast you see?

the guide mentions both as options, with tidal dash making duos harder but maybe being stronger sometimes?

not sure how exactly to evaluate that

[upper juniper]

Tdashhhhh

[fast cliff]

playing with a variety of casts seems more fun

[upper juniper]

Then you can figure out your build whether you find artemis/ares or zeus/athena in tart

[upper juniper]

Opening mirage shot does make hitting hunting blades harder but mirage + hb is way strong

[fast cliff]

Do you go with the mirror option that makes duos more likely with achilles spear?

lol im on crystal clarity rn and theseus second phase died like, instantly xd

[fast cliff]

Does smoldering air work with the hades call? If you get smoldering air is it ever a strat to use hades call instead of acorn?

[verbal atlas]

yes, but its not really good

bc it blocks out big calls

and minor calls on hades call are fine but not great comparatively

[left prism]

You can't get smair with dad's call unless you do funny stuff

[fast cliff]

oh do you have to sell your existing call to be able to choose the keepsake?

[left prism]

And afaik it completely stops you from using it

Yeah

[left prism]

Cuz dad call needs 50% for lesser calls and smair caps at 25%

[fast cliff]

How do you consistently dodge the bull charge with forced overtime 2?

I feel like even if im hanging out near a pillar and dash through it he just goes around half the time and hits me

also with the spear attack pattern does accidentally doing an actual spear stab make it a lot harder to dash out of your attack pattern? in general I find it difficult to know when to empty dash away but sometimes even when i do it doesn't work and i think that might be why

[south violet]

stand next to wall, dash to the side or through the bull at the last possible time

[verbal atlas]

i believe its a consistent dodge to bait him into a wall

[verbal atlas]

and yeah he will often times just slide around the pillars sadly

[fast cliff]

ok

and if you aren't already next to the wall you're screwed?

[fast cliff]

it's especially a pain in the small arena

i feel like he's almost harder to fight there than with theseus

but that might be acorn speaking

[south violet]

spear, a bit like sword, has two attack-related states:

• dashstrike mode
• standing strike mode
  if a dash was not used when the user last pressed the attack button, the weapon enters standing strike mode. this state needs a split second of idleing to expire. if a dash has recently been used and the player presses the attack button, this becomes a dashstrike and the player enters dashstrike mode.

[verbal atlas]

you can out run him technically with 2 dashes and hypersprint and using the pillars to weave

[south violet]

not always, he gives you some time at the start of the rush (with the attack's visual cue, him running in place) to know you need to bait him into a wall

[verbal atlas]

(ive done this a few times)

[left prism]

Keep your call charged if you have one so you can use it for iframes

[fast cliff]

damn benefits package makes my problem of being hit out of rama attacks by armoried guys even worse

[fast cliff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/843328118084730880/1412126469739515914/image.png?ex=68b728c2&is=68b5d742&hm=1b33c2af4d0759765f1bbf93e5ce3ba067766e791bdefb2a56c282c2a2e92240&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1296&height=958

Sometimes there's rooms like this

where there's armored + speedy + multiplied enemies

[verbal atlas]

cloner speeder

[fast cliff]

i almost died in that room

and i might run out of time in tartarus now lmao

[verbal atlas]

rama has pretty fast bossing, you should be fine

[fast cliff]

probably would have been a lot easier if i went zeus first rather than aphrodite ig

[verbal atlas]

nah at high heat you start looking for attack instead of special

the other option is start artemis keepsake and either get hunter dash or attack

[fast cliff]

I watched the video of someone doing 8ish minutes on rama 50 heat, and they got a lot more hits in vs bosses, especially asterius

just like knowing when to shoot in between animations ig

[upper juniper]

50h speed is real?

[verbal atlas]

im assuming ocaml's run?

the 7:30

[upper juniper]

Wait the unmodded 50 wr is faster than modded

[verbal atlas]

yep!

its also faster than the seeded but we dont talk about that

[fast cliff]

probably

what keepsake do you go for as second? athena for the dash is what ive been doing

[verbal atlas]

and yes, its a lot of animation know how and skill, ocaml was probably the best rama player ever (outside of playad)

[upper juniper]

Distant memory for damage

[verbal atlas]

yeah, thats what i did for my 56 modded on rama

but you could also do tooth for the survivability

[upper juniper]

Divine Dash is just too strong for heat

[verbal atlas]

tooth is a very common pick at high heat

[fast cliff]

for asphodel?

[verbal atlas]

(unless you are me doing zagbow, in which case i take arty keepsake 20 times out of 10)

[fast cliff]

i feel like my mindset with the wells is probably wrong, i keep just not buying anything under the assumption that the only things that scare me are the hades and asterius fights, and that any other death is a statistical outlier, but the guide says the regular rooms get a lot harder with higher heat idk at what point that is. Maybe I'm just bad at these two fights, is there a way to just practice them? I assume there's some speedrun tool with savestates but it'd be easier if it's possible to just savescum it somehow

[upper juniper]

Regular rooms start getting bad at like 40

[verbal atlas]

yeah it can help with some of the bs that can happen and is a 100 hp heal if you keep it until exiting lernie

[upper juniper]

45

[verbal atlas]

the only tool that exists for stuff are savestating (there is technically a tool but i dont use it)

[upper juniper]

I mean as long as you haven’t been hit you can quit out of a boss fight and re-enter from the start if you’re not trying to do anything out of the way

[verbal atlas]

you grab your temp save for that save file and then can overwrite it on another save changing the name to "Profile#.sav"

that way when you quit out you instead re enter at that chamber instead of the house of hades

[upper juniper]

[fast cliff]

ah neat

[verbal atlas]

save file locations can be found here #h1-tech-fixes message

[fast cliff]

What other things are you going for besides aphrodite attack and athena dash / random defiance boons? Zeus or dionisus on special and ideally random pressure points / hunters mark ig? I feel like aside from those core boons a lot of the stuff i see i'm just picking whatever looks the least useless, especially aphrodite i feel like after I get the attack and maybe the one that says you do more damage to weak enemies she just has literally nothing going on outside of smoldering air and ig the one that reduces the damage you take from nearby enemies.

[verbal atlas]

at high heat dionysus is preferred on special bc of savior enemies

but you dont even need a special tbh

its a nice to have

[fast cliff]

savior enemies?

[upper juniper]

The guys that hand out dc shields

[verbal atlas]

benefits package perk that gives them the ability to give enemies around them the blue hearts

[fast cliff]

ah

[upper juniper]

Just hit double strike into splitting bolt it isn’t that hard

[fast cliff]

are there any duos you care about besides smoldering air? i tried scrolling through some of them but there's a lot to look at lol

[upper juniper]

ROD

[fast cliff]

that doesn't work with stygian soul right?

[upper juniper]

You cannot get it with stygian

[fast cliff]

is it worth it to go infernal soul just for that?

[verbal atlas]

yeah

rod is extremely strong

[fast cliff]

interesting

i just fought him again, i think i just dont know his attack pattern well enough tbh. I also think im reapplying the special too often
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFbCUEQiFLE

[verbal atlas]

couple of things im noticing, not enough power shots, and yes you are reapplying the special too often, if you had jolted that is what you would do though, save meg for the second phase, save call charges and use them right before you are going to get hit or use on before charging a powershot right in his face for the guaranteed damage

[fast cliff]

I think i have epic jolted actually

[verbal atlas]

you do yeah

[fast cliff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEw87L6dCok

I did a really bad job managing the skulls lol

also i keep forgetting that with damage control on i need to special everything before trying to shoot them

I think i was kind of carried by abusing the athena call here tbh

I did a lot of running away when i didnt have it up

[delicate knoll]

i think the issue here is that you're just not attacking enough and relying on your specials for damage

you've a level 6 aphro attack, your powershots will each hit like a freight train

[fast cliff]

yeah ik i just have a hard time doing it without getting hit

ig i had the buffer of the extra death defiance here because i actually remembered to kill myself before picking up an athena boon

I might also be missing on the dash strikes hmm

[delicate knoll]

there were a lot of moments where you were safe to do an attack but just... walked around?

[fast cliff]

probably

[delicate knoll]

i guess it's what happens when you aren't running tight deadline 😛

[fast cliff]

this is 5 minute tight deadline

i did get lucky in styx though lol

[delicate knoll]

hmmm

[fast cliff]

I suspect it'd be safer to play in a way where i just shoot when it's safe to do so anyway though

because the longer i run around doing nothing the more likely it is i just take enough strays to die

[delicate knoll]

I've just learned to profit off of every single damage opportunity i get

and dad fight has a lot of those opportunities until p2.2 when he gets faster

[fast cliff]

second half of second health bar you mean?

[delicate knoll]

yes

it only slightly matters for slower aspects

[fast cliff]

how does fiery presence work with armored enemies?

[verbal atlas]

it procs on the armor and only the first hit of the armor

[fast cliff]

is the backstab one better or do you just have to be careful about not damaging things with special?

[verbal atlas]

at high heat its never taken just bc of the inconsistency of it

especially in those harder fights

shadow presence is leagues better yeah

[fast cliff]

i see

on all weapons or just rama?

[verbal atlas]

all aspects

[fast cliff]

oh interesting

[verbal atlas]

if you accidentally use your big hit on the DC and then its followed up by a small hit that will then eat up the fiery presence

also on rama specifically

you almost never gain its value bc you break DC with special and then the final arrow hits the enemy

its pretty much an anyheat specific mirror option

[delicate knoll]

frei nearly every one of my 50s were with fiery 😂

[verbal atlas]

i think my modded 60 was with fiery

and thats just bc i forgot to change mirror perks LOL

[fast cliff]

at what point does heat just become really tedious and annoying? I assume once you start eating your mirror upgrades / not having boon choices anymore?

or is that why you guys play moded?

[delicate knoll]

at whatever point you're forced to take routine inspection and approval process

which is usually around 50/51

[verbal atlas]

nah its still gets tedious after a certain point, its just by a higher margin comparatively

[delicate knoll]

but even until then it's devilishly hard and most people just don't enjoy the challenge

i do modded only because of styx sack

[verbal atlas]

idk i just like pushing the higher heats bc of the challenge aspect

i play it modded until i feel pretty comfortable before swapping back to unmodded to play it again

[fast cliff]

33 didn't seem that hard, but i assume by the time you get to 50 it's really rough

[verbal atlas]

depends on aspect but yeah

and also skill level

your first 32/40/45/50 etc will always be harder than the ones following

[fast cliff]

yeah i also find some of the aspects way harder than the others

[verbal atlas]

cough cough cough (gilga)

[fast cliff]

spear was weird because it felt a lot faster than some of the others but my builds were really inconsistent and i kept taking a lot of damage

[verbal atlas]

yeah spear is definitely one of the harder to play weapons for both heat and speeds

another thing that hurts it is that it is very reset heavy regarding build sadly

like you pretty much need to get flurry jab first hammer

(serrated is a close second for first hammer as well)

[fast cliff]

i think the run i finished on it i didnt use the flurry jab that well and mostly just went afk with crystal clarity

Battle Rage (Ares) is incredible on Rama, especially if you get a high rarity on it. It all but guarantees that a pre-charged powershot will one-shot almost everything without armour (which Twin Shot can negate) in Tartarus and even most enemies in Asphodel, which makes your room clearing much more consistent. However, there’s a weird issue to take note of: using your attack to kill an enemy with Shared Suffering on it will not trigger Battle Rage. This happens even if the attack would have done enough damage to kill the target on its own without the Shared Suffering damage. Thus, if you have Battle Rage, you might want to weaken the first large target in a room using your cast (and Boiling Blood) rather than your special, so that you can get Battle Rage going.

I read this in the rama speedrun guide, this means it's kinda shit on heat with damage control right?

[verbal atlas]

pretty much yeah

[fast cliff]

so we just avoid aries if possible then i assume

or is the special still fine

[verbal atlas]

wouldnt say avoid per-say? but if theres a better option take that over him

you dont really get as much luxury in high heat as you do in speeds regarding god choice

[fast cliff]

whats the pick order then? poseidon and demeter worst, then ares, then everything else?

[verbal atlas]

id move dem up there just for non cores (excluding special, it can be pretty good)

but yeah i think is correct

[fast cliff]

do you take ares special if you get it or is it bad because of damage control / benefits package and wait for a better one

[fast cliff]

I just died to having to do all 5 styx tunnels 🙁

[sly cove]

ive been starting zeus special becaus eu have a lot more flexibility on attack than special

on attack aphro is best but athena/arti/dem are all solid asw

meanwhle on special its just like zeus or dio

maybe smth else but nothings coming to mind

ares in general feels like he sucks if u arent doing a dedicated build tbh

(me or hunting blades)

outside of blade dash being a decent tidal dash substitute

[fast cliff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/843328118084730880/1412225518677528647/image.png?ex=68b78501&is=68b63381&hm=db909567688fb470886346f8c45edc0489f251c440ce5c5a47916b6d8ae4d4a3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1296&height=731

some of these zeus and athena call boons are really funny

just push the call button every time you enter a chamber and every 10 seconds or so xd

[sly cove]

smair moment

[fast cliff]

whats the order for jury summons / convenience fee / EM4 / Calisthenics program / trap damage?

I assume convenience fee and maybe some small number of jury summons is next, then EM4, then calisthenics program and trap damage?

and hard labor before them?

[sly cove]

cf is free

hs is free sometimes

id say cf hl first

that gets u to 40

after that it depends

personally em4 is hell so i refuse to take it

so just ap/filler

[verbal atlas]

if youre doing rama then jury summons is pretty easy to deal with

[verbal atlas]

its genuinely a pretty fun fight tho

[sly cove]

ok but im bad enough at base dad

[fast cliff]

i tried it once and got rolled

[sly cove]

id get fried by superdad

[fast cliff]

i should actually beat it at some point on low heat

i still can't use meg in the final fight for some reason

[sly cove]

js is probably the next easiest heat after cf/hl

[sly cove]

have u gotten 10 wins

[fast cliff]

yeah

[sly cove]

oh

u have

hm

have u gotten the dialogue

theres a dialogue that enables it

[fast cliff]

prob not

how do you get it

more gifts?

[sly cove]

its like at some point he goes "alright meg can help you now"

im pretty sure its just a random occurrence? but idr i havent done story in forever

[left prism]

You need a summon that works vs him and one that doesn't + 5 nectar on dad I think?@fast cliff

I think is in the wiki

[fast cliff]

i checked the wiki page for battie earlier and it was just like 'yeah he doesnt let you do it but then at some point he does'

[upper juniper]

Eventually you’ll get the dialogue to use the ones for his employees, but you either need what Nooby described to get the dialogue, or it might be 2 from Dad’s employees rather than the described 1:1

[sly cove]

oh that seems right

[fast cliff]

ah geez im remembering how difficult hard labor + forced overtime is

[sly cove]

just dont get hit

[fast cliff]

How does skipping hermes / hammer work?

[upper juniper]

You can still find them afterwards just later

like

[verbal atlas]

*sometimes

[upper juniper]

bag might get cooked if it’s too late

[verbal atlas]

like sometimes they just wont appear again

ive had runs where i'll skip hammer

and it just wont show up again

im so good

[upper juniper]

Mhm

I skip hammer often enough for shop and chaos it’s usually a non-issue

[fast cliff]

is it also reasonable to skip it to put a god into your pool or just to have a roll at a duo boon or something good for your build?

[verbal atlas]

nah take hammer in most cases

[fast cliff]

ok

[verbal atlas]

especially at high heat were boons are less likely to be the thing you want

hammers can be the extremely impactful buff to a run

[verbal atlas]

also i keep on seeing in like speedcord ppl talk about the bag

and idk what it means

[upper juniper]

Depends on how hammer dependent the weapon is

[fast cliff]

with hard labor + forced overtime do i need to actually learn how to time the iframes on the dodge instead of just running away? I feel like that might be the case. Also how do you not take a bunch of hits in the learnie fight i feel like there's hitboxes everywhere in that one, same with the super cursed rooms with a million armored numbskulls or whatever

[upper juniper]

Lernie tax is real

[verbal atlas]

(hestia would be a great exception to the almost always take hammer)

[upper juniper]

My understanding is it’s like how some versions of tetris will generate new pieces in sets of 7 and then distribute them to you randomly to make sure you aren’t getting stuck in a loop without seeing a particular piece ever

[verbal atlas]

also yes, learning the iframes are pretty important, but for lernie keeping distance is really nice (and i believe you've mainly been pushing rama for heat so yeah)

[upper juniper]

I actually can’t remember the specifics at all because it’s a bit more nuanced than that

[verbal atlas]

numbskulls can be a bit tricky it comes down to a lot of positioning to get them away enough so you can special hit them before doing small charge hits to break armor and kill them

[fast cliff]

and yeah im mostly using rama, I also liked poseidon sword but it seemed kinda worse than other things, achilles spear I had trouble with but was pretty fun and i would learn it but it seemed really inconsistent in terms of build when i was playing it, chaos/zag shield was alright maybe i'll try those again idk, hera bow was pretty fun but the dps vs later bosses felt crap and when I saw people were just playing it like zag bow on high heat I thought that was pretty 🛌 (i never got mirage shot though maybe i should have been trying for that?), ive never really cared much about the fists, and the rail I'd only really consider playing with guaranteed delta chamber because I hate reloading (+ hestia was 😵‍💫 inputs).

[upper juniper]

found it

[fast cliff]

interesting

[upper juniper]

It’s a teeny bit long but it’s not actually that complicated tbh

oh fr fr

[steel jacinth]

i have trouble finishing tight deadline 3, i want too to lower the difficulty by lowering forced overtime so i have these punishments in competition but maybe i should take both and use others to lower the difficulty?

[left prism]

What's your target heat?

[steel jacinth]

32

[left prism]

What's the rest of the pact

(you can send images by sending them elsewhere then right click> copy link)

[steel jacinth]

40% damage dealt and 25% healing removed

i'm going to make a screenshot

[left prism]

What weapon are you doing?

[steel jacinth]

spear

do i need some discord authorization to paste screenshot? drag and drop doesn't work?

[left prism]

Send it elsewhere like a dm

Or a priv discord

You gotta use embeds

Also do you want overtime 0 or are you fine with 1

[upper juniper]

Drag and drop won’t work for this channel

[steel jacinth]

1 is fine most of my run ends up to theseus and hades

[left prism]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1230649734008672347/1412781761565294772/Screenshot_20250903-084831.Firefox.png?ex=68b98b0c&is=68b8398c&hm=4fe0c09dc771fa9741460fc666db3a7c95dcfcdbdf00c349e24a95506b4a781c& without td3 I'd do this?

Swap to stubborn defiance in the mirror

Enemies hitting harder matters a bit less as they are easier to dodge

[steel jacinth]

so i should actually privilege build freedom instead of health management?

[delicate knoll]

yes, do not take routine inspection or approval process

they're not worth the heat

[left prism]

Especially with spear

Spear really wants its good hammers so AP is really mean on it

[left prism]

Basically stubborn defiance let's you heal to 30% at base each room by using traps/knowing the last enemy of the room

From there you can do stuff like

[steel jacinth]

i'm trying to build up damage avoidance with the feather 2-3 stages but maybe i should switch for poseidon dash early on?

[left prism]

Don't use plume

What's your mirror

[left prism]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1412783212618322071/1412783240581877760/Capture_decran_du_2025-09-03_14-45-26.redimensionne.png?ex=68b98c6c&is=68b83aec&hm=e3e07ba25910652656fe6fa410ed31994352045a17e8b765f4f7ab69b5c22293&

[steel jacinth]

mostly purple, with gods boons upper

[left prism]

If you are doing hades spear you really want 2 specific hammers
Exploding launcher (special becomes a exploding projectile, 50 base dmg) + charged skewer (charge special for up to +200% dmg)

Otherwise you can use something like serrated point

(triple dash strike, lesser dash distance)

[steel jacinth]

i only had exploding launcher in one run among dozens, it's never popping up

[left prism]

Spear moment

[steel jacinth]

oh actually i think i always skip it when i see projectile lol

[left prism]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1412783212618322071/1412784433169170584/Capture_decran_du_2025-09-03_15-00-28.redimensionne.png?ex=68b98d89&is=68b83c09&hm=9e090ea0eb3dea62ef9a0d2a0b64de29f6463447632344f0c38b4829a9593cb3&

[steel jacinth]

that's crazy i just figured it out

[upper juniper]

In a heartbeat

[steel jacinth]

i should switch the game to english it's only confusing me having french

[upper juniper]

[left prism]

The other things you can use with stubborn defiance:
Charon well sells an item that boosts the defiance heal by +10% hp and it stacks

The elysium npc gives an upgraded version that gives +50% hp

[delicate knoll]

no dark foresight 😔

[upper juniper]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/795659377755422742/1388198079324229834/D1F1DEB7-A6D4-43D3-9E92-F1FA6FAE4B2A.jpg?ex=68b918f5&is=68b7c775&hm=45d45a380855df917492aba27b626eddcd5aed9c264cad3fbfdfeaf6b9f6001a&

Swað your mirror to these

[left prism]

I told them the skills to swap in dms

[left prism]

And lastly the most important
Athena has 2 boons that restore a revive, if you use stubborn defiance in the room then pick up either of these boons, you will gain a death defiance (50% hp revive, doesn't come back) then stubborn will regenerate next room

[steel jacinth]

i still don't get the love for stubborn defiance maybe i'm too traumatized by hades boss maybe my skill is still a bit low so i rely more on go broke run

[left prism]

Is easier to practice bosses and you are making rooms a lot meaner with this pact

[steel jacinth]

i only feel comfortable in hades with a strong build with 3 deaths defiances

[left prism]

You can make stubborn as safe normal defiances tbf

If you get patroclus your stubborn heals 80% hp

If you get athena defiances those will heal you to 100%

And without ap1 is easier to get stronger builds to rush him

And dark foresight will give you more max hp

Also Just in case

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/520688402958516254/660997121406926849/hades_room_rewards_guide.png?ex=68b980ca&is=68b82f4a&hm=f09f6253cbf42adbf7b8e2427369455a8c2bfe81354802d1319c064f739269ba&

Dark foresight swaps the rewards ratio in favor of the gold laurel rewards

[upper juniper]

If you run td3 you can take some levels off both hl and lc, you just need to step up the build quality

[steel jacinth]

thx everybody i'll try some big changes, seems like i was a bit locked in weird choicesz

[upper juniper]

Eh it wasn’t reddit bad

I don’t think

Ap1 and dc1 were the main questionable parts of the pact

[steel jacinth]

just did a run with changes and it was very fast and health wasn't a problem due to the high dps, still died to theseus because i was high on damage and thought i could just burst through it, overall it's all about getting used to do the boss fights methodically

[sly cove]

dad is def harder with sd but the rest of the run is unfathomably easier

just luck into patty

/athena

if u struggle lernie use tooth although thats usually once u have hs

[steel jacinth]

it's crazy that it's after finishing the game that i start to understand the mechanics fully, was trying to up the feather but i always remove it for the tooth

i should probably always go acorn for the last two stages i don't understand why i keep it complicated

[left prism]

Wait did you know that removing the plume loses the bonus

[steel jacinth]

my first heat 32 was zagreus fist with esquive build with feather it was so easy i thought it was the way to go

[left prism]

Fair enough

[steel jacinth]

but it's not that good without the base +15%

well anyway

[fast cliff]

the shield guys have gotten a lot more difficult for me with hard labor

[upper juniper]

Really?

everything comboing together is usually what nips ppl

[sly cove]

zagfist plume is fun

u dont get to pick build direction so u just build with whatever the game gives u

[fast cliff]

if i try to rush behind them and shoot then i usually get hit by a regular attack and if i run away a lot i lose time and take damage from the wave attack

and it feels hard to just run in after they attack when there's a bunch of enemies

[fast cliff]

I feel like lightning rod isn't actually good

i'd much rather have athena dash so the only artemis core boon available is the cast, which is kind of a dead pick when you could be selecting other artemis boons (although ig it opens up hunters mark maybe? i dont remember)

[steel jacinth]

i finished off my goal of heat32 with all weapons, after favoring build friendly punishments and acorn for both theseus and hades, my success rate became pretty decent

thx for the insights

[delicate knoll]

you're welcome

now all aspects

[forest token]

it's quite literally free damage without putting in any effort

it kinda needs static discharge at a decent level for actual damage tho

but like without it, it's still not bad bc you're getting a lot of damage with very little effort

[fast cliff]

i see

[upper juniper]

The humble splitting bolt in question

[fast cliff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/843328118084730880/1413253576200945798/image.png?ex=68bb4275&is=68b9f0f5&hm=6104549e0a7e05a6492603047ac8cb51bbbc1a5e3aebfde0fa632d3db8324455&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1296&height=727

40 done

[left prism]

Rama gaming

[fast cliff]

damn em4 got hands

also jury summons on the time limit is... something

i went into em4 fight with 3 minutes on the clock just now with a 2 sack

and i started with like, rare attack twin shot epic dionisus special

[forest token]

and that's why we never use js3 lmao

[sly cove]

when they stick their shield in the ground u can kill them cuzthey cant attack for like a couple seconds after

idk i never got the hype of rod but thats maybe because i dont play with a damage counter mod

[forest token]

i mean it's just free damage lmao

70 ever sec is just really consistent

with jolted it's even better

[sly cove]

yeah but they have to be in range of the thing

and if u accidentally pick it up

[fast cliff]

I mean you have to eventually right

whats the actual order of things to add from 40 to 50?

I assume i need to learn both em4 and jury summons 3 at some point

or give up xd

[forest token]

oh to 50 you need js3 lol

if you take all the non-nasty stuff you get to like 46

basically everything except ri, cp, ap, and em4 should get you to 44 i think

ap1 is generally always taken at that point

[fast cliff]

really?

i thought that one was like, really bad

[upper juniper]

AP1 isn’t so bad

AP2 is a big jump from AP1 thou

[fast cliff]

i see

i think i might need to actually get modded set up at this point though just to be able to practice the em4 fight (i had issues manually fiddling with the save files) and avoid the sack rng with jury summons

what mod are people using for this stuff?

i assume it's just part of the speedrun modpack?

[upper juniper]

tbh just get the speedrun modpack

It’s used identically for heat iirc

and ranked the same way

[fast cliff]

https://www.speedrun.com/hades/resources/62jwo

it's this right?

or is it this
https://github.com/ellomenop/HadesSpeedrunningModPack

[upper juniper]

The later iirc

wait

just grab the link from speedrun.com

[fast cliff]

is there a speedrun discord btw?

i tried looking it up but didnt find anything

nvm the speedrun.com ui just put it in a weird place lol

[left prism]

Pinned in #self-promotion

[sly cove]

ap is really bad but so is everything else

idk if ap1 ri1 is worse than ap2

both are rly bad

[forest token]

i mean at 50 you kinda gotta start taking stinky stuff

ap1 is like

something you could take at 40 lmao

everything except dc and ri and only with cp1, ap1, and em3 is 45 heat

so you gotta put 5 heat somewhere

with hell mode it's 46

[urban steppe]

[sly cove]

i just dont see a reason to

ig thats how rama can get away with em3 ap1

cuz dc is takeable

unlike hesty or beo

[forest token]

i mean at 40 you can still get pretty consistent with your builds with ap1 imo

you won't have to take like dc, js, or cf

i think

you can get your build still without having to deal with that, which imo is worth it

everyone's different tho lmao

[fast cliff]

You definitely end up resetting more right?

[left prism]

I think I did ap1 for 45? When climbing to 50 with rama

But by then I had access to modpack/hellmode instant swap so

Oh yeah modpack makes earlier ap much more takeable

Cuz it removes the reset part for attack/hammer

And I did ap2 for 50 pretty sure

Unmodded I believe?

So I ended up with triple explosive

[south violet]

some aspects handle Approval Process better than others. as a general rule of thumb, the more of a specific build an aspect wants, the less Approval Process it can get away with. modded, this doesn't apply to hammer-dependent aspects, since these get 1st hammer guaranteed through the modpack. unmodded however DOES need to take this into account.

Hestia and Zeus are probably the two most consistent aspects, with Rama and Arthur not too far behind.

Something like any of the fists, or the other three rails, (or any spear for that matter, ty frei) meanwhile, AP2 is a death sentence unless playing modded.

[verbal atlas]

As a testament to zeus being consistent, in my unmodded 55 zeus, i dont get a special till mid ely. I’d also add on that spear is really bad with ap2

[fast cliff]

I started playing modded after 40 and both now and before that i almost never reset for build

basically just if i have to use two rolls at the start for attack boon then i would reset but otherwise i was just doing the runs

rn im just trying to learn em4 though i got the saves working

it's uhh really hard

i got sorta close to doing it first try because i had patroclus + athena death defiance + going in with max health xd

[forest token]

I mean compared to ap0 yeah lmao
Mainly for first boon if it's 40 heat tho

You shouldn't really need like a god tier build at 40

As long as you have your core boons you should be fine

[fast cliff]

yeah i guess once you're confident in your ability to win the actual run resetting a couple times to get an attempt isnt too bad

if the sack is in the boss room is it always exactly 3 encounters then sack?

also will dashing through the hades spin attack be harder without athena dash?

[upper juniper]

Nope

Tunnels can have variable lengths

iirc it can be 3-4 encounters prior to the end chamber of any tunnel

[fast cliff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/843328118084730880/1413962664937390201/image.png?ex=68bdd6d9&is=68bc8559&hm=26b884e7c2d1be6e5858e6687b1c4ab57f26798d63058d29ed8a3607d5116823&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=682&height=455

is calisthenics program faster or slower than jury summons?

[verbal atlas]

slower, as it also effects boss hp pools

[fast cliff]

i see

well im 2 minutes out of asphodel with this so that's maybe doable idk

i think the hardest part might be the em4 fight tbh

never mind im getting farmed by a bunch of shield guys with bonus damage control shields from benefits package and i dont have dio

[verbal atlas]

with em4, it usually takes about 4-5 minutes for the fight

[fast cliff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/843328118084730880/1413970666058678282/image.png?ex=68bdde4d&is=68bc8ccd&hm=79c6fe5a2eda9dbff0cadfd42becbef819e4ff10571d50ad7ac597a63d6ed9e6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1296&height=1131

this room seems legitimately impossible

im sure theres a way to do it but wtf

[verbal atlas]

leaving asphodel with 2-3 minutes is fine, 2 minutes is a bit more of a high roll with hoping for ely to be nice

[fast cliff]

is it normal to run into rooms like this that just destroy you or can you just beat them in a normal amount of time by being better at the game

[verbal atlas]

clear method would be to shared suffering tag then doing attacks to remove the DC also yes rooms that destroy you like that is pretty common on high heat

[fast cliff]

does the rama attack remove damage control faster than they give it to each other here?

[verbal atlas]

with the shared suffering on all of them? yeah it slightly out paces

[fast cliff]

ok so you just have to be the goat then

[south violet]

Heightened Security off at 50 is crazy behavior
I'd say switch out calisthenics 1 for it

also rama isn't too boon-dependent, moreso hammer-dependent

if you're to use one of Approval Process 1 or Routine Inspection 1, probably go with the latter. you only really need a single boon (a strong attack), everything else is up to what you encounter during the run

on hammers meanwhile, encountering twin shot (or triple shot if you're a god) is really important, in fact probably more important than even an attack due to how many other sources of attack and dashstrike damage there are in Hades

can also accept perfect shot or point-blank shot in the event you don't get twin/triple offered.

so yeah you really don't need the rerolls and rarity-boosts of the bottom 3 mirror slots on rama.
personally I'm even a fan of immediately turning on RI2 if one is to turn on RI1 as that lets you cut down on jury summons meaning you'll have less nightmare-rooms like the one you posted about

[fast cliff]

alright

[fast cliff]

interesting, ive been playing with the speedrun modpack now so ig this doesnt apply

[south violet]

to be fair there are multiple ways of making pacts, some just prone to taking longer to clear or requiring more skill than others

[fast cliff]

mainly doing that because i got mad at 5 sack rng killing me lol

[south violet]

right, yeah, the hammer comment doesn't apply then 👍

sure, you can probably approval process 2 then actually because you have the ability to force everything else you want (aphrodite attack, twin shot)