h1-high-heat-strategies

[neon sphinx]

True but on nem I found it slower than the fast paced ones

[torpid dune]

What's the easiest most consistent build on low to mid level nemesis atleast then

[forest token]

Still good tho

[torpid dune]

Aphro Artemis?

[neon sphinx]

Aphro artemis

[forest token]

Consistently yeah

[torpid dune]

Ok

[neon sphinx]

And double edge+some other hammer that helps idk

[forest token]

It's really only double edge

[neon sphinx]

Yeah

[forest token]

Every other hammer kinda sucks on sword

[neon sphinx]

I usually go with piercing wave

Just for more attack dps

[forest token]

It's like fine lmao

It's something

[neon sphinx]

Yeah that’s about it

[quiet acorn]

dashstrikes dont

[upper juniper]

Because you can’t go into ME off tidal dash?

Starting with athena gives you build flexibility based off who you find in tartarus

[south violet]

idkman, chop rocks

And shadow slash on arthur

[surreal heron]

Up to you but it's overrated imo. Changing crit from 3x to 4.5x doesn't make a big difference imo compared to merciful end.

^merciful end can also help manage dc

[torpid dune]

dc?

[torpid dune]

crit is 2x base not 3x

[surreal heron]

damage control

[surreal heron]

crit is +200%, which means 3x damage

heartrend adds 150% onto crits making it 4.5x damage

[torpid dune]

Oh yeah true

[broken echo]

doom takes poms really well depending on rarity

epic can go till lvl 7 or so and by then you should have impending

[broken echo]

tdash start imo

[upper juniper]

Double edge + breaching or pwave

[peak knoll]

https://youtu.be/9Uo3ZA96IWU

bro is so fed up after 800 hours he didnt wanna play the game anymore

[quiet acorn]

not sure how itd take 800 for a vengeance run

[neon sphinx]

This did not take 800 hours lol

[south violet]

Why did that player equip butterfly

And using zeus attack on arthur

And using DC2 on arthur

[left prism]

Gotta clear dc2 somehow

[delicate knoll]

so I'll start doing rama 50 attempts tomorrow and I've a question, why did playad start with arty dash? wouldn't aphro attack be a better choice? the damage boost affects dash attack too right?

[quiet acorn]

with arty u can start dash or atk and rarity doesnt matter

[hoary pasture]

It's more common when you run RI2 too

[delicate knoll]

but if i have the first boon epic mod then i should get aphro attack right?

[hoary pasture]

I would say so yea. It's the best attack overall and weak is a great effect for heat. You can get the dash later and its rarity doesnt matter as much

[forest token]

artemis start allows for taking either dash or attack so you have a 50% chance of leaving the first room lol
if you have first boon epic and the modpack, you can just take aphrodite

[delicate knoll]

man rama kinda hard

i keep dying to either benefits package or middle management

flamewheels with speed perk are so fun to deal with!! 😃

[hoary pasture]

start zeus special

[broken echo]

I think Rama typically dashes through terrain for flamewheels

They should take care of themselves

[torpid dune]

@broken echo sorry i was re reading our convo but i couldnt really figure out. whats the most consistent build for nemesis from low to mid heat

[broken echo]

tidal dash start imo

[torpid dune]

they said ddash

is it for merciful end?

[torpid dune]

@broken echo

[delicate knoll]

merciful end isn't a consistent build

because duo boons are rng based

[torpid dune]

i see

so is tdash artemis attack aphro special heart rend good?

[delicate knoll]

sword relies a lot on dash attacks so tidal dash is always great

[delicate knoll]

tdash and arty attack by themselves are good enough
if you manage to get heart rend too then yeah

[broken echo]

tdash itself can make the build work pretty well

look for basically anything good on attack and take shackle if you don't get i

[broken echo]

@honest kernel there’s a pact guide pinned here

[honest kernel]

Ahhh ty

[neon sphinx]

I’d switch attack and special personally

[upper juniper]

Aphro strike is far better I believe

[neon sphinx]

Hunter dash+double edge instead of tidal dash

[upper juniper]

Double edge doesn’t stop you from running tidal dash

Tbh the extra aoe and hit from tidal dash is better for heat

[neon sphinx]

True I just like big dash strike numbers

[neon sphinx]

I said hunter dash as well

[torpid dune]

strike means attack?

[upper juniper]

Yeah

Same thing

[quiet acorn]

it is hard

[torpid dune]

mathematically artemis does moore dmg

[torpid dune]

is fated authority or persuasion better

and what about gods pride and legacy

id imagine legacy is far better but idk abt fated

[quiet acorn]

The 4 rolls one

And the epic boons one

Idr the names sory

[ivory drum]

Pride is better

[upper juniper]

Source?

[torpid dune]

REDIT

[ivory drum]

oh god

Not reddit

[upper juniper]

I knew it

[torpid dune]

they r math nerds bra

[upper juniper]

They’re not

Not Hades reddit

[upper juniper]

Aphrodite is better mathatically because she boosts the damage of your average strikes allowing you to take out enemies far more often with fewer strikes

artemis means you’re overkilling enemies some of the time and need a lot more strikes in other cases

[torpid dune]

same with aphrodite though?

[upper juniper]

no?

[torpid dune]

its more consistent sure

[upper juniper]

Aphrodite has a way larger +% modifier

which means you kill most enemies with way fewer strikes consistently

[neon sphinx]

It’s a 15% chance to be better

So less than a fifth of your hits are better than with aphro

[neon sphinx]

Redditors are notorious for acting smart but being stupid

[quiet acorn]

[upper juniper]

Can confirm, the two main games I talk about have utter garbage reddits

1 of them is Hades

[delicate knoll]

every single game has a garbage reddit

reddit is garbage

mfs in the the binding of Isaac subreddit rate the items like they have never played the game themselves

[torpid dune]

why?

dual boons are so rng but so essential to runs

like heart rend is so op

[upper juniper]

Getting boons with solids stats is like just as crucial

Duo boons ride off what you have to start with

The odds of you finding duo boons is rather high to start with across a couple boon pick-ups anyways

[forest token]

Not really essential to most runs lmao

Only like 2 builds absolutely need it

Every other build, you still want to build towards the duo, but you don't really need the duo for it to be good

Definitely wouldn't call them essential

Especially in heat

[severe summit]

Hi what are yalls favor it

I like, play, As Athena in Zagreus, Using Chaos start, Try to Ares, to meet Aphrodite. At the moment I have only Gone up to And beat

[sly cove]

u forgot about demcast

and/or ares

[forest token]

Oh right

[delicate knoll]

man fists are harder than every weapon so far

meta is long knuckle and zeus attack right?

then pray for jolted 💀🙏

[forest token]

Yeah lmao

[ashen garnet]

There are dio/ares variations depending on pact/mirror and heavy is correct on Talos

[south violet]

Breaching cross strats exist too if you get tired of armored enemy BS

But yeah long knuckle is definitely simpler to play in most rooms

[delicate knoll]

I'm running ap2 so aiming for duos isn't viable

[delicate knoll]

and no I can't pass the furies without long knuckle 😂

[ashen garnet]

Both gods atks are viable on their own without ME, LowTol or CoNausea, especially with lots of poms for Dio and lucky t2s for Ares (not recommending this road for ap2)

[ashen garnet]

BCross second hammer to deal with Ely bs

[delicate knoll]

have to win the hammer lottery for that

one of my attempts got the stupid one where my attack became a 3 hit combo

killed my dps and i died

[ashen garnet]

Yeah it's super detrimental if you don't have jolted yet, otherwise it's salvageable when you are used to the combo

[delicate knoll]

even with jolted it's a big downgrade because demeter still take 12 hits to charge the uppercut

[delicate knoll]

SIX runs in a row, chaos has given the curse that damages you when you special

ON NEMESIS

[south violet]

are you running AP2 nem

if so, why

[delicate knoll]

cause i only need aphro strike?

right? 🤨

[south violet]

want attack poms, possibly a divine dash or poseidon dash, possibly a zeus call, a second hammer that is not detrimental if you get forced into second hammer. maybe poseidon tier 2s if you decide to go the poseidon dash route

(or invuln call because nem tends to be glass-cannon-y)

[delicate knoll]

ehhhh

tidal dash does sound good

I'll try in my next attempts

[south violet]

nem 50 is honestly about as difficult as the other non-arthur swords

arthur tends to be the least needy of the four somehow, but admittedly plays very different from the others

[honest kernel]

Anyone got some suggestions for what mods for 16 heat

[delicate knoll]

depends on what weapon and aspect you're using

extreme measures 2 and tight deadline 2 are easy so definitely include those

if you're using a fast weapon, damage control 2 is also free

[upper juniper]

Pinned in this channel are recommendations for every heat from 1-32

[sly cove]

yeah we know stickybot

[cursive portal]

nem sucks

[broken echo]

62?

[broken echo]

the only reasonable conclusion

[surreal heron]

Painful thought.

[broken echo]

yeah...

[surreal heron]

Even thinking about how to do it would stress me out

[broken echo]

i could see cp1 ri3 61 as a midpoint

[surreal heron]

you'd need hermes dashes

[broken echo]

yeah

[surreal heron]

and enough damage to survive tartarus without your second dash

keep in mind most of it is dashstrikes

honestly think arthur 62 is more likely

[broken echo]

chop nem lol

idk i'm kind of a chop doubter

[ashen garnet]

Prolly the aspect which benefits the less from it

62 Nem kinda Fresh File with worse RNG

[sly cove]

holy crap

go angel

[cursive portal]

absolutely not

[delicate knoll]

what's the heat record for hestia?

i assume it's 60? everything except ri3 and dc0

[cursive portal]

Yeah for now

[south violet]

m 60, unm 58 iirc

[surreal heron]

62 if we count hypermodded (timothy)

[delicate knoll]

and what does this "hypermodded" mean 🤔

[forest token]

you can guarantee your second hammer option and at least 1 hermes boon

initially developed for speedrunning, so you can also guarantee what your 2nd hermes boon was too so you can always get hyper sprint and rd basically

and also epic dashes from styx hermes

you still roll the 50/50 whether or not you get styx hermes tho

[broken echo]

62 soon tho

Like within months probably

[torpid dune]

hera build?

im currently doing art strike, mega pommed crush shot, artemis dash, dyo call

with snw burst

[broken echo]

Pretty much this

Don’t need Artemis dash or call

All poms should go into cast

Flurry best hammer but any of the attack hammers are ok

[paper fern]

I guess this goes here. I've completed all 4 levels using the sword on heat 1. I have not done this with heat 0. Is there a separate set of bounties for completing on heat 0 or is it just the usual darkness

[upper juniper]

There’s a seperate set of bounties for heat 0

[paper fern]

Oh sweeeet

[upper juniper]

The game essentially stops you from skipping the 0 heat rewards for any weapons by turning on heat

like every other heat bounty can be gotten by playing a higher heat than neccessary but not 0 heat

[final gorge]

what are the best keepsakes and pact setups for 40 heat rama?

it looks like ocaml, tailesque, and timothy_lincecum all use different mirror/keepsake setups

[upper juniper]

What differed for their mirror?

[final gorge]

not that much now that I think about it lol

[upper juniper]

I’m no Rama expert but most weapons use the exact same mirror

[final gorge]

just ap vs no ap

[upper juniper]

You mean the pact?

[final gorge]

im so stupid

yeah I meant pact

[upper juniper]

The pact would all be pretty similiar too

I would do the not ap one

Because ap is just a not feel good optopn

[final gorge]

alr yeah that sounds great

[upper juniper]

you just don’t hit and it feels worse for it than having enemies get harder to deal with

The difference in keepsakes was probably just how they wanted to start off their build

I’m assuming their either took a god keepsake for the god they wanted to start of their builds or shackle to have a nice damage bonus through tartarus until they found their strike boon

[final gorge]

ocaml started aphro, and the other 2 started artemis

[upper juniper]

Oh yeah then it’s a build preference thing

Aphrodite means consistent damage on every shot, artemis is more variable but can be massive off shared suffering and also opens up Lightning R O D

[final gorge]

is lightning rod that good?

[upper juniper]

It’s fairly good for heat play

It’s useful in a way I don’t have the experience to explain but I have the knowledge to know a fair few weapons use it for heat

[final gorge]

okay

[upper juniper]

Plus the god you’re looking at for Rama special is 9/10 times Zeus so odds are you’re looking for it with artemis strike

[final gorge]

also, why do you need the artemis keepsake to open up lightning rod

[upper juniper]

Lightning rod is the artemis/zeus duo

[final gorge]

that makes sense, thanks

[upper juniper]

You start with artemis to guarantee artemis

[final gorge]

oh right, i forgot that you can get unlucky and not get the god

[upper juniper]

You run god keepsakes in tartarus and asphodel to guarantee the two gods you want

[final gorge]

I just feel like I get artemis so often that I didnt even need the keepsake lol

[upper juniper]

It’s a pretty normal thing

it also means that you’re getting that slight rarity boost on the core you really want

[final gorge]

I just feel like artemis attack feels super bad when killing the nomal guys

[upper juniper]

See bow, and particularly rama, has a lot of ways to get more damage

Twin shot triple shot just multiply base damage, tons of hammers give extra additive damage

Shared suffering is built in

So while artemis isn’t the play I would make, I can see why you would run it and just get your additive damage for consistency elsewhere

And then every so often you hit a crit and shared suffering wipes an entire room

I’d probably go for the aphrodite build but I’m also way more of a zag bow guy than a rama guy

[final gorge]

okay you make a lot of sense

i'll try going artemis some more and seeing how I feel

ty

[broken echo]

artemis is so you don't reset for rarity or can take hunter dash right off the bat

also arty is better with AP2 because you can take strike or dash

without guaranteed epic artemis is better

[final gorge]

who do you need the higher rarity on?

[final gorge]

is aphro not good unless you have it epic?

[upper juniper]

Aphro goes from 50% on common -> 80-100% on epic rarity

It’s like a massive difference

Where artemis goes from like +10% -> +18-20%

[final gorge]

okay thanks

also, is the arti dash or attack bettre?

[final gorge]

I thought stygian soul was preferred at higher heats, or does it not really matter?

[upper juniper]

Preference

[broken echo]

Both are good

Arty dash is the preferred dash on Rama by far

Arty is good but epic aphro is better for consistency

[trail gull]

Dunno what channel would be appropriate, but any tips for dealing with EM3 and EM4?

[broken echo]

For em3, be mindful of how Theseus controls space and damage him a little when he’s stationary

Otherwise focus on asterius and learn to dodge his attack and run away when he spins. They’re all pretty well telegraphed

[trail gull]

And for EM4 dad?

[broken echo]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/126vagPhjSWQMR1x8O9tJT3neweSTdUUfw2pNVjqX7lU/edit#

Sorry slipped my mind

It would be good to use savestates to practice both of these fights

Em4 especially

[honest crypt]

asterius' EM3 spin attack once deleted 2 of my DDs 😭

[radiant citrus]

i don’t really understand what the high heat means in game :’) is it useful?

Nuuu

[shy plinth]

Have you beaten a run yet?

Heat is a difficulty setting that's enabled after you win your first run

[radiant citrus]

yes, 6x

[radiant citrus]

does it like just give u bad advantage or something

[delicate knoll]

it makes the run harder yes

[radiant citrus]

so what would ur benefit be from it

[delicate knoll]

it's fun

i enjoy overcoming a great challenge

[radiant citrus]

becuz its challenging?

oooh

what does it do towards ur weapon

[delicate knoll]

until 20 heat you keep getting titan blood which lets you upgrade your weapons

at 32 you get the last courtyard statue

after that it's just for the sake of fun

[radiant citrus]

oohh okay

whats a courtyard statue

[delicate knoll]

you probably haven't reached them yet

skelly brings them in and you have to run some heat to reveal them

i think you just have to keep talking with skelly?

[radiant citrus]

ooh, i skip him

[sly cove]

ts dire

deaduzz why shields op

[honest crypt]

yeah shields op
when enemies have them, they block my crush shots and I become annoyed

[sly cove]

dont use the 2nd worst bow

gg

[honest crypt]

[shrewd salmon]

How is hera 2nd worst

[delicate knoll]

worst is chiron because duh

[sly cove]

kiron

*level 0 zagbow

[delicate knoll]

hera relies on mirror upgrades so becomes bad at high heat, thus second worst

[sly cove]

hera also relies on being able to kill enemies in 1 volley

[delicate knoll]

zag bow doesn't rely on mirror upgrades and is just all around pretty good

then there's rama who can just clear 64 heat

[sly cove]

rama was a given

[shrewd salmon]

Oh right, I forgot zag bow keeps upgrades

[neon sphinx]

Why chiron

Feels better than hera to me

[delicate knoll]

there is no aspect of charon in the game

[neon sphinx]

Wait

I swear I typed Hera

wtf

[jaunty falcon]

awful multitarget and the single target isnt worth it

[radiant citrus]

can u guys recommend me a heat to use as a first time user?

[south violet]

alright maybe unpopular opinion, but I'd recommend Tight Deadline 1. It's very lenient, encourages you to learn to make builds (since the more damage you have, the faster you can beat the game on average) and puts you on-track to get 5 more heat (tight deadline 2 and 3) at basically zero gameplay-risk. The better builds you come across, the better you'll do against this heat-setting.

[broken echo]

Td1 or em1 probably

There’s a pact guide in the pins

[upper juniper]

I don’t think td1 is an unpopular recommendation

[radiant citrus]

I’m using it right now. Thanks for the info

[radiant citrus]

okay ill js check there at times!!

[delicate knoll]

i also recommend bp1, makes the game more fun

adds some variety to enemies

though it ain't really easy

[radiant citrus]

yup ill try it on my next run, im still at the td1

[neon sphinx]

Em1 and 2 are easy heat

Td1

[sly cove]

because its chiron?

[sly cove]

yeah so basically just instantly turn on hl5/lc4/cf2/js1/mm/bp2/fo2/em3/ap2/td3 + the trap one

am i forgetting one

[honest crypt]

you forgot routine inspection 4 and personal liability

oh also uc

[south field]

My friend just bragged about beating hades on 40 heat so I had to kill him 😔🙏

Shame, even though I’ve only beaten the game on heat 1

[south violet]

Hades, or the friend

[quiet acorn]

huu

[sly cove]

ri4 is a bit much

id only say ri3

[honest crypt]

you're taking lc4 you don't need chthonic vitality, might as well ri everything

[delicate knoll]

cthonic vitality is useless, ri4 is hard because it takes away stubborn defiance

[south field]

The friend

[sly cove]

thats the joke...

[delicate knoll]

huh

didn't sound like a joke

but i do suck at picking up sarcasm idk

[sly cove]

the joke is that the heat is free

[delicate knoll]

is there any special dialogue for reaching hades without any mirror upgrades?

i know there's the "100% darkness free" title but what about dialogues? 🤔

[south violet]

I know meg has dialogue

idk about dad though

[surreal heron]

yes

also a special title on the win screen

[nimble radish]

ughhh I've been trying to beat 32 heat for like 3 days now

I really thought it's not as hard as they say but oh god I suck

I've tried different pacts with Hestia, Chiron, Beowulf and even Zag fists for the dodge but none of these seem like my ticket to win

[shy plinth]

Did you check the pins and the guide above?

[nimble radish]

Yeaaahhh I did

I made runs following them as well as doing things my way

[shy plinth]

What's that last part mean lol

[nimble radish]

Like for example guides suggest the 4th level of EM, but I'm really used to fighting Hades that way

I haven't even gotten to him so it's not like that's ruining my runs

I always die on Elysium

[shy plinth]

What pact are you using? And what heats have you cleared before? What's your mirror?

[nimble radish]

Give me a moment, I'll get an imgur link

https://imgur.com/a/8zWnAVo

Highest heat I've cleared was 20

So I thought I'm ready for 32

[broken echo]

Have you tried starting hestia Aphrodite attack

Or any of the shields

[nimble radish]

I said I tried Hestia already, so obviously I did so with Aphro
as for the shields, I haven't touched any besides beowuld on that heat level

[shy plinth]

Mirror has some pretty clear opportunity for improvement

Change olympian favor for dark foresight

Gods pride vs gods legacy is close, though I like pride more, but definitely dark foresight. Would also strongly recommend family favorite over priv status

[nimble radish]

I usually go family fav, it's just my last strategy involved a double status so I thought I might get it

[shy plinth]

Family favorite is much better

[nimble radish]

also most of my strategies revolve around duo boons

[shy plinth]

Isn't limited by specific boons, it also starts buffing you immediately as soon as you get a boon in tartarus

So it's +5% in the first room, +10% as soon as you get a second god, etc etc

It's online MUCH faster

[nimble radish]

I see

[shy plinth]

Dark Foresight is the really really important one here

[nimble radish]

also I'm kinda scared that when I get dark foresight I'll only be seeing common boons lol

[shy plinth]

Legacy vs pride is fine either way, but I would bet that both foresight and family favorite will make a large difference

Dark foresight is the best row on the mirror

I promise it's worth it

[nimble radish]

Alright, I'll give it a shot

[broken echo]

Well I have no way of knowing what you have or haven’t tried. For all I know you’re having trouble with hestia because you’re using the wrong god on attack

[broken echo]

This might be part of the issue

Duo boons are good but well leveled normal boons are usually better for carrying a build

[nimble radish]

I have a lot of troubles with hestia, gameplay-wise I've tried using it because of how strong it is, but the gameplay is really clunky in my hands

[nimble radish]

I see

[shy plinth]

Have you remapped reload?

The default reload assignment is very difficult to use

It's common to remap it to a shoulder button or really like anywhere else

I moved mine to left stick and it was fine, but hestia players usually use a shoulder I think

[broken echo]

Have you read the zyruvias guide?

[nimble radish]

I play with a keyboard and mouse sadly and remapped it to my mouse button but as much as it was easier to pull off it still felt slow and unreliable

[nimble radish]

I did before trying to do 32 heat

like for the first time I mean

[broken echo]

Attack on lmb and reload on rmb?

[nimble radish]

reload on a side button

[broken echo]

Oof

I would put it on rmb

You’re going to be reloading just as much as attacking so it should be easy to access

Put special on shift if that’s the issue

[nimble radish]

I didn't really want to give up how easy casting is, but now that I think about it, it might be a good idea

I'll do a test run and see

[silver mica]

ive been grinding away at it for a few days too but i think im close

[quiet acorn]

refault reload works aswell

[silver mica]

got em4 hades down halfway last time, decided to switch em4 for a few other things cause i wouldve managed it with standard hades

trying not to look at tips and guides too much but ive skimmed them

[quiet acorn]

turn off attack at cursor

[broken echo]

Try cast on alt

[quiet acorn]

whats wrong with default cast

[nimble radish]

Got Epic Aphro and +115% dash attack from Chaos

this might work out

[broken echo]

What’s default cast

[quiet acorn]

ngl

i dont remember

[broken echo]

Lmao

[upper juniper]

is it q or something silly like that

[quiet acorn]

rmb right

[broken echo]

You’re never casting and dashing at the same time so alt is fine

Q is spec

[quiet acorn]

isnt dash spacebar

[upper juniper]

Someone clearly doesn’t have a level 50 flurry cast from codex mod

[broken echo]

Yeah but thumb for both

[quiet acorn]

Wha

Well I don't even have alt so idk

[delicate knoll]

default is q for special and rmb for cast which is stupid

i switched those 2 around, but if I'm using a castpect, i put cast on mb5

if not, mb5 is reload

[frail sleet]

I run ESSF with special on RMB, cast on A, and call on Z. Put that pinky to work without leaving movement keys.

[broken echo]

Your keyboard doesn’t have an alt key?

[quiet acorn]

mac got option instead

[neon sphinx]

I’ve only played h2 on pc but I’ll assume they are both Q

[upper juniper]

H1 has cast on rmb

by default

[sly cove]

nah they swapped

[wintry crystal]

So I'm trying to 100% Hades before I move on to 2. I want to try and beat the game on the highest heat I can (at least 32 since there's a reward behind it)
What's the highest heat that's considered “reasonable” for all aspects? (Reasonable meaning that you don't need the run to give you specific things for it to be beatable)

[jaunty falcon]

By that metric, its over 50

But I wouldn’t call that reasonable

40 is definitely doable (people have streaked all aspects at 40 heat unmodded)

[wintry crystal]

I would say doable is a better way to phrase it then

[broken echo]

50 on all aspects is doable but some are tougher than others

[forest token]

50 isn't exactly reasonable tho lmao

40 is pretty reasonable if you want to go higher than 32 all aspects imo

[ashen garnet]

Would also say the switch from reasonable to not is between low-40s and high-40s depending on the aspect

[south violet]

yeah 50 is definitely not reasonable LMAO

save your sanity for something that matters

[broken echo]

Yeah I guess I’m trying to separate doable and reasonable as was asked

[wintry crystal]

I tend the split challenges like these into 3 tiers: reasonable, doable, and possible

Reasonable is self-explanatory

[broken echo]

Basically it’ll be 32-40, 50, WRs respectively

[wintry crystal]

Doable is something that's extremely hard but can be done with enough practice and can't be completely overruled by RNG

And possible is something that is technically possible but requires a inhuman amount of precision and/or leaves you to the whims of RNG

[broken echo]

Some of the WRs didn’t require inhuman rng, but the skill required is still pretty substantial

[forest token]

If that's the definition of doable then "extremely hard" can go to like 50+ lmao
It's just how many runs and practice do you wanna do

A lot of 50+ heat runs don't require too insane rng, just a bit as is the nature of the game

[quiet acorn]

50 is reasonable

[quiet acorn]

you should do 50 its not that bad

[forest token]

50 all aspects seems like hell lmao

Mostly bc like half the aspects are pain at that level

And it's not bc of rng

[quiet acorn]

theyre doing all aspects?

just do one aspect

[forest token]

One aspect at 50 is reasonable, I just was under the impression they were doing all aspects lmao

[quiet acorn]

even all aspects 32 is unreasonable, after you do like 3 of them it gets repetitive and boring

[wintry crystal]

How does it become repetitive or boring?

[quiet acorn]

once you beat it the first few times it gets too easy

[wintry crystal]

I don't really see how that's the case? I'm constantly trying to improve my heat level

Also I'm only caring about the individual aspects once I reach 32+

[delicate knoll]

nuh uh

most of the aspects have a distinct playstyle at that heat level

with a few like gilgamesh or chaos shield being actual challenges

[shy plinth]

Gilga the ultimate challenge of "get ME"

[wintry crystal]

This is exactly why I want to do all aspects, each aspect and by extension each weapon has unique benefits and opportunity costs that shape your run

I genuinely find Hades really fun but I also have an extensive backlog so I wanted to set a point where I can be "done with it" even if I'll probably go back to this game later because roguelikes are infinitely replayable it's why it's my favorite genre

[delicate knoll]

mfw i did it with ap2

[delicate knoll]

bro for real, I'm trying to push past 50 with some of the stronger aspects but there's also so many other games to play

[wintry crystal]

Sure I could just grind 1 aspect, call it a day and I'm sure I'd enjoy it but I could also have a permutation of that experience 15 more times so why not

[delicate knoll]

if you get the speedrunning modpack you can also do 50 all weapons 🫵

[quiet acorn]

i remember doing all aspects 32 and its started to get grindy and boring

[wintry crystal]

Play games however you want but if you only use 1 weapon / 1 aspect / 1 character in any roguelike then I think you're missing out

[wintry crystal]

Then why not turn up the heat?

[quiet acorn]

i did all aspects 50

[shy plinth]

#h1-victory-boasting message

They have

[quiet acorn]

62 now

[shy plinth]

Crazy

[quiet acorn]

oh unmodded57 yes

[wintry crystal]

Then what makes 1 aspect not boring?

I mean I don't agree with your perspective but I'm still curious to hear it

[quiet acorn]

i didnt say that

i said all aspects 32 gets boring because it just ends up being 32 runs in a row

[wintry crystal]

You mean 16 runs in a row right?

[quiet acorn]

there are a lot of aspeccts you could not like and allspects commits you to end up playing them

24* mb

all weapons is more reasonable imo

[wintry crystal]

Oh yeah it's 24

Do you think I'm trying to do them all in a row without dying?

Because that's not what I'm going for

[quiet acorn]

you still get the variety youre looking for while playing what you like and not taking too long

[shy plinth]

I enjoyed 32x24

[quiet acorn]

i know

[shy plinth]

I am also not good enough to do 50 all weps

So 32x24 was a nice experience because I got to know some aspects I'd written off earlier in my time with the game and found some new challenges but nothing felt crazy

But this channel has some true degens and this game has been out for long enough for people to have mastered it

[quiet acorn]

i guess

my point is its less of a challenge and more of a grind

[shy plinth]

Was a challenge for me

At least in the back half

Like obv it's not hard when you're still using the strong aspects

But a lot of people don't execute as well as the 50 heat grinders

[wintry crystal]

Maybe for you it was boring and easy but you're clearly not the average player

[shy plinth]

So it's a nice "intermediate" challenge

I mean I don't think 32x24 is average either

[quiet acorn]

all shields and fists were the same

[shy plinth]

But remember also we're in the high heat channel 5 years after the game came out

The population of people that are still here are the true believers

32 was the original point of this channel but things have developed since then, high level meta is people pushing each other from 50 to max heat

[wintry crystal]

Even Gilgamesh? I'm fine with all of the fists but I cannot stand that aspect

[shy plinth]

Play ME

My first 32 was an AP clear with a horrible pact on gilga where I got proc blocked from ME twice and it still worked

ME gilga is easily strong enough for 32 without much effort

[wintry crystal]

Is "ME" an acronym for something?

[quiet acorn]

merciful end

free win if you get ti

[shy plinth]

Ye

On probably like half the aspects in the game tbh

But def on fists

[wintry crystal]

So Maim counts as a doom effect?

[quiet acorn]

nah

[shy plinth]

No, you just do the normal ME thing

[wintry crystal]

Explain to me what the "normal ME" is I'm new in this channel remember?

[shy plinth]

Ares on attack, athena on dash and special

Every time you attack you apply doom and every time you dash you pop it

So you spam attack->dash

With gilga you apply and pop 4 dooms per cycle

This also works on pretty much any weapon in the game that isn’t a bow

[wintry crystal]

I haven't looked too much into Ares so I didn't even know that merciful end was a thing

[delicate knoll]

neither was i, practice makes perfect

[shy plinth]

If you’re pushing higher heats, it is worth at least knowing all the boons in the game - going through the codex pretty helpful and there are some v strong meta builds

[shy plinth]

Ya I just didn’t feel like grinding more, felt like I’d gotten what I needed out of the game at 32x24 and 40 all weps

But mad props to all the degens in here

[delicate knoll]

[wintry crystal]

I mean I would get to know them all eventually. I don't even have all of the bounties yet

[shy plinth]

Ah

Well, def worth reviewing the codex, checking the guide in the pins, and making sure your mirror and pact are set up optimally

Merciful end in particular worth knowing because it will win runs for you for like 50% of the aspects

[wintry crystal]

I'm also trying not to look at the meta until I get stuck, I just don't like the feeling of searching up the “answer” and trying to force it

[quiet acorn]

yea

[shy plinth]

I think high level hades is generally about pursuing particular builds

But if you’re doing well enough without that info then keep going and enjoy it

[delicate knoll]

no because approval process exists

[shy plinth]

Well ok high level as in 32. High level at 50+ is about winning with whatever you get lol

[delicate knoll]

true

[shy plinth]

Shout out to retrash

AP2 king

[wintry crystal]

That's the mindset I take with all roguelikes. If there's ways to manipulate what I get then I'll take it but at the end of the day there's just things that you're not guaranteed to get

[delicate knoll]

hypnos' wallet for tartarus is definitely an opinion

[wintry crystal]

And that's what keeps these games fun

[shy plinth]

I mean, if you keepsake and set up your mirror properly you’re pretty likely to get what you’re looking for until you’re in the AP RI heat levels

Hades 1 has a ton of RNG manip

[wintry crystal]

I know about the Rarity increases from the mirror and the Olympian keepsakes but what else?

[delicate knoll]

max dark foresight and no ap2 is near guarantee to set up your whole build before styx

[shy plinth]

Yeah, dark foresight, fated persuasion, and keepsakes are enough

Along with knowing what you’re looking for

[delicate knoll]

slow weapons take % boosting gods like aphro, fast weapons take zeus or dio

[quiet acorn]

at 50+ your build is like 2-3 boons

[shy plinth]

I mean for 32 I’d expect to plan out your targeted boons before hitting tartarus

But yeah at 50+ you’re just playing with nothing

Well, with shackle

[delicate knoll]

even 3 is unreliable for ap2

[delicate knoll]

shackle usually doesn't give enough damage to clear js3 cp2

[shy plinth]

Ok with shackle in tart

[delicate knoll]

starting with your prefered god is much more beneficial though

[shy plinth]

I’ll trust you at that heat level

All I know about it is what I see in the vids

It honestly seems impossible to me even after seeing so many people do it

Back in the day it was exciting to see Tail and hadesprofessor go back and forth on 50s

[quiet acorn]

😦 i wish i played hades then

sounds fun

[shy plinth]

Was

[delicate knoll]

i did play hades then but only went as far as epilogue and didn't interact with the community

[wintry crystal]

Thanks for the advice but I was specifically talking about RNG manipulation stuff, I was curious if there's more to it other then Olympian keepsakes and the mirror

[delicate knoll]

filling up your core slots asap can help you get a specific tier 2 boon

as long as you have an empty core slot there's a very high chance that whatever god you pick will offer it to you

taking useless fillers just for that helps you get the stuff that you actually need in the long run

[shy plinth]

Keepsakes, dark foresight, and fated persuasion is also generally enough but yeah understanding the pool mechanics helps

Like knowing that once you hit 4th god you won't see more

And that core boons have prio

[wintry crystal]

Okay I knew everything you just mentioned except that

[shy plinth]

Yeah you can only have 4 Olympians

[delicate knoll]

keep in mind the 4 god rule excludes hermes

[shy plinth]

Ya

[delicate knoll]

hermes is more like Daedalus hammers
the game really tries to give 2 of each throughout every run

[wintry crystal]

What happens if I take a Olympian Keepsake after encountering 4 gods? are they added into the pool or do they only appear for the forced reward?

[delicate knoll]

they enter the pool and you can keep seeing them afterwards

not recommended to do it since it makes the run more inconsistent

[wintry crystal]

I could see it being worth it if you're looking for a specific Duo Boon

Like ME for example

[shy plinth]

Generally you want to go god keepsake for first two biomes with the expectation of filling the pool in asphodel

Shouldn't need to go more than 4 gods

[delicate knoll]

in casual and mid level heat you usually take a god keepsake in tart and aspho for your build, utility or protection in elysium, then protection for styx

[shy plinth]

(it's usually just acorn)

[quiet acorn]

just lurk in this server youll figure it out

[wintry crystal]

That's what I was planning on (At least until I get stuck)

I was going to look at the meta eventually but I want to put it off for as long as I can

The main reason I came in this channel was to find out when the game starts requiring RNG in order to beat runs

[quiet acorn]

50+

more like 55+

[wintry crystal]

Would you say that goes for every aspect or just the "Meta" ones?

[shy plinth]

Some aspects might have lower ceilings but if you're pushing 32 you don't have to worry about that

Pretty much everything under 45-50 is within the player's control to a large enough extent that you can make good choices and win, even if you get 5 sacked

[wintry crystal]

I appreciate a good challenge but I don't want to waste my time with seeds that can't be beaten

[shy plinth]

"Seeds" aren't a thing that you have to worry about until very high heats

It's all about planning, game knowledge, and execution until you get into AP+RI territory

[wintry crystal]

I mean that's what I assumed

Although there is a question I have about the punishments that's been itching in the back of my brain for like a month now

Isn't the biggest filter TD?

[shy plinth]

What do you mean

[wintry crystal]

Because in theory no matter how bad your build is, couldn't you just play perfectly and get through it anyways even if it took forever?

[shy plinth]

I think TD3 will generally be on for most people even before 16 heat

I suppose that is technically true assuming perfect play in perpetuity

But that doesn't tend to be a reflection of success typically

If you want to do td0 runs that are really hard and do a bunch of chip damage ranged runs, you can - they tend to be much more punishing though. You're basically predicating your runs on the concept of not getting hit

[quiet acorn]

mostly the meta ones

if youre playing unmodded most of your rng comes from sack in styx messing up ur tight deadline and hammer choice if ur aspect needs a specific one

[quiet acorn]

nah, most people are hesitant to turn on td3 even at or past 32 heat

[shy plinth]

Well ok, they might be hesitant, but it SHOULD be on

[delicate knoll]

with js3 ri3 if your dps isn't enough to kill enemies fast it can be pretty much impossible to avoid damage in some small elysium rooms

[quiet acorn]

yeah td and fo are heats that youll benefit from learning to turn on early on

if ur doing bounties and planning to push heat later play with overtime and deadline

[wintry crystal]

20 and below I'm currently running EM4,BP2,MM,UC,TD1

[shy plinth]

EM4?

EM4 is pretty tough

[wintry crystal]

Yeah but fighting enhanced bosses is fun

[shy plinth]

Sure, up to you

[wintry crystal]

I plan to go pretty high anyways so I don't see the problem in getting the hard ones out of the way first

[shy plinth]

It's generally harder than other heats available for that cost but if you wanna do it feel free

[quiet acorn]

try to get forced overtime in there

[shy plinth]

EM4 is usually not taken until 50+

[wintry crystal]

If anything it's better to get used to them while they're in this controlled environment

[quiet acorn]

because your current muscle memory will be redundant once u start using it

so earlier is better

[shy plinth]

Yeah, FO and TD are both great to get used to

You already have UC/BP/EM3/BP2 which are in the same boat

[wintry crystal]

For the ones I've collected all the bounties with (which currently is just the shield) FO2 is the next step

The reason I didn't enable it earlier is because I want to get a feel for each aspect in an easier environment

[silver mica]

Even at 32 I only ran td2

[sly cove]

idk bro ap2 50 was hella pain

[quiet acorn]

dont play ap2 50 then

theyre already playing em4

[wintry crystal]

I posted the run I just finished in #h1-victory-boasting if you're curious

[shy plinth]

Nice

Oh, are you running olympian favor

I cannot recommend Dark Foresight strongly enough

[wintry crystal]

Oh that's just so I can get the resource rooms

Once I reach 32 I'll be switching

[quiet acorn]

the resources you get from those rooms are negligible

[wintry crystal]

I have all the gameplay stuff but there's still plenty to unlock

[shy plinth]

Up to you, but I think you will probably have a better rate of return by finishing runs faster by being stronger

Darkness rooms etc are pretty low yield

Would also recommend family favorite over privileged status

Priv status places a lot of pressure on your boon selection and family favorite starts acting immediately once you take your first boon in tart

[wintry crystal]

Is it generally agreed on that one is better than the other or is this a side grade thing?

[shy plinth]

Family favorite is the meta pick for sure

Because it's not just +25% vs 40+ - in the early biomes, it's +5% then +10% then +15% etc vs 0%

You also don't have to go out of your way to pick things like blinding flash or razor shoals

My specific explanations for each row are pinned in this channel 🙂

[broken echo]

Depends on the talent

Oh I misunderstood the question

FF 95% of the time better

[delicate knoll]

dark foresight and fated persuasion are without a doubt superior
family favorite tends to be better but you can make privileged status work if you build around it

[broken echo]

So basically 100%

[shy plinth]

I mean if you're doing dio ares aphro chiron or whatever then sure go priv status

But then you get the worst debuff of all - forgetting to change it back and not realizing it until midshop in tart

[broken echo]

Also all aspects 32 was pretty chill and a fun challenge when trying out different stuff in the game

[wintry crystal]

My thought process is that I need the damage the most against bosses and mini bosses particularly the ones in biome 3&4 I don't feel like I really need the damage boost early on although the higher heats may make that more of a factor

[broken echo]

Highly recommend and you can figure out which ones you like and want to push further

[shy plinth]

Fam fave gives you a ton more build flexibility, a bunch of bonus time to save, and removes the need to constantly reapply debuffs for your build to deal damage

Because even when priv status is working, it's not a constant +40%

Fam fave is +25% on every single hit

Plus, tbh, once you start pushing higher heats, "I only need the damage against bosses" doesn't really apply

Elysium and styx get nasty

Clearing rooms of brightswords or whatever is important

[delicate knoll]

styx is easy, it's all about elysium

it's a massive wall in high heats

[shy plinth]

Chamber 34 naked brightswords will just spawn forever

[delicate knoll]

funny because i got that room yesterday and cleared with like 2 hits only 😂

[shy plinth]

Must be nice to be so good

[delicate knoll]

no it's just hestia moment

[shy plinth]

Ah

It is the bestia, as they say

[delicate knoll]

run away and keep shooting

[shy plinth]

Don't forget to also keep reloading

[shy plinth]

Also, as far as this goes - don't underestimate how helpful it can be to bank time from earlier biomes on TD3

[wintry crystal]

I'm reading the pinned mirror talents

[shy plinth]

Every time you clear tart with 1:30 still on the clock, that's an extra 1:30 for dad

[wintry crystal]

The only one that has me stumped is the justification for Ruthless reflex

[shy plinth]

Ruthless is gilga only

[wintry crystal]

Why not Zagreus?

[shy plinth]

Ruthless? The one that only gives you one dash?

We take it on gilga because gilga has mini-dashes built in

So you get 3 mini-dashes instead of 4 and still get to ruthless

Every other aspect should take greater

[delicate knoll]

the dodge chance isn't worth playing monodash, having 2 dashes is HUGE for elysium, champions and dad

the difference in difficulty between monodash dad fight and double dash dad fight is crazy

[shy plinth]

Yeah, and tbh ruthless reflex doesn't really synergize THAT well with zag fists

[broken echo]

Zag fist buff isn’t that high either

[wintry crystal]

But what if you reach 100% Dodge chance using the plume?

[broken echo]

15 is basically negligible

Meh, at that point your build is probably bad enough that you time out

[shy plinth]

I mean if you wanna do a plume run you can

[delicate knoll]

dodge chance is multiplicative, you can never reach 100%

but you can get absurdly high

[quiet acorn]

what

[delicate knoll]

is it not multiplicative?

[shy plinth]

The wiki says dodge is additive

[quiet acorn]

1 . i think its additive 2. multiplicative would make it easier to cross 100%

[delicate knoll]

no way 😂

[quiet acorn]

unless my math isnt mathing

[shy plinth]

But either way, a plume run isn't usually the play unless you particularly wanna do a plume run

[delicate knoll]

i thought it was like, with 15% dodge chance you have 85% chance to get, and your chances to get hit multiply with each other

[silver mica]

no it doesnt

[quiet acorn]

yeah i understand now

[silver mica]

but i also think its additive

[quiet acorn]

but its additive

[delicate knoll]

so for example ruthless reflex with zag fist and epic dodge boon from hermes would give you 0.85x0.5x0.7 chance to get hit

[silver mica]

although online info is inconsistent

[shy plinth]

The #1 source is a comment with 12 upvotes on reddit 5 years ago

So uh

Not really much out there lol

[delicate knoll]

wait so zag fist + ruthless + hermes dodge boon + plume can make you invincible?

[wintry crystal]

I think I was literally just about the post that Reddit

[shy plinth]

It's the one google pulls up first

[silver mica]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1332235001953255456/1359057721818746981/image.png?ex=67f618a2&is=67f4c722&hm=e2395332aaa802889b2ee86e22af739bf9cfad85d00c4b30c090a3d644787fae&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

im going based on this mostly tbh

[wintry crystal]

I found another reddit thread with a more credible anecdote https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/fk22ac/comment/fksjjpc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

"I think it’s multiplicative, Haelian had some number over 100% a few days ago on one of his streams and he was still getting hit, he had asked that same question but then answered it for us."

[shy plinth]

From what I can tell from this discord, there is just a soft cap

[silver mica]

multiplicative would make far more sense

[shy plinth]

#h1-discussion message

From what I can find in here, the common wisdom (wihch may or may not be true) is "it's additive and there's a cap"

[wintry crystal]

That would make the most sense

[shy plinth]

I searched "100% dodge" in here and sorted old->new

It's come up a bunch before

But anyway, re zag fists vs ruthless reflex

1. The ruthless reflex bonus triggers when you dash before getting hit, not when you dodge
2. 50% vs 65% not a huge deal
3. Second dash more likely to get you out of danger better anyway

[wintry crystal]

I remember the last time I did a plume run I got like 70~% and I don't remember getting hit, If it was multiplicative there's no way my dodge chance would have proc’ed enough for it to not happen

[quiet acorn]

haelian did max dodge run if u want to watch

[wintry crystal]

I'll probably watch it at some point

I do have one more theory crafting thing about ruthless reflex though, Is greatest reflex (the Hermes boon) consistent enough to salvage it?

[shy plinth]

You're doing a lot more work for 2 second buffs

If you want to monodash through tart and commit one of your two very valuable hermes boons to more dashes with the intent of repeatedly parry-dashing, you can try it

But I'd personally rather leave the door open for hyper delivery

[quiet acorn]

dont play monodash pls

[wintry crystal]

I just like discussing underpowered options more in the lens of "what does it take to make this work" rather than "never try to make this work" granted this is the high heat channel but I think this discussion is still fruitful for a intermediate player like myself

[delicate knoll]

gotta get used to it for my inevitable 62 hestia run 😔

[wintry crystal]

It allows me to understand why the option is bad and in turn grants a greater understanding of why the good options are good

[quiet acorn]

u serious?

[delicate knoll]

it's my favorite aspect so i wanna try 🤷‍♂️

[shy plinth]

Generally speaking, ruthless reflex is offering a deal that is only valuable if you don't need it

[quiet acorn]

gl

hestia wr would be nice to see

[silver mica]

I didn't realize Hermes was exactly two

[shy plinth]

2+styx shop

[silver mica]

Oh

I assumed it was like hammer where it only shows up if you don't have 2

[shy plinth]

Hermes is similar except you can get a third one offered in styx shop for a bunch of money I think

[silver mica]

I see

[shy plinth]

#h1-discussion message

My understanding is that the hermes slot in styx is a 450 for high rarity

[wintry crystal]

That's what I've had in my experience

[silver mica]

500?

[wintry crystal]

One last thing about Dodge chance. Is Greater evasion ever worth taking? I've only taken it in Plume runs

[delicate knoll]

only if it's rare or epic

[silver mica]

Yeah

[delicate knoll]

or if there's no better option

[silver mica]

I've taken it if it's epic and the others are lame

[wintry crystal]

I feel like that's the only time I would take it outside of a plume run too

I get the idea I just don't like relying on a low chance safety net, at least with second wind or plume you have move speed

And with the zag fists... well that's an aspect so the choice doesn't matter as it's pre-run

[quiet acorn]

always depends on ur options

but ive never been disappointed to see it

[ashen garnet]

Dodge is additive, but I don't think you can reach 100% dodge without having plume from Tart to late-styx, relying on Call or Near-miss activators

Ruthless is great if you play melee, flat damage soup builds or aspects with embedded dodge chance/movespeed and makes Hermes boons dilution less impactful by making Greater Evasion and Second Wind almost on par with Hyper Sprint. It's better to use it when you are used to foes patterns and take the time to bait attacks but it's super useful at mid-heat against projectile/hurtbox spam

[ashen garnet]

PrivStat activates as soon as you land a hit applying a second status effect (also for the said hit) and the higher % makes it more interesting than FamFav for bossing and to catch up with Elysium/Styx HP scaling provided your aspect/weap reliably build around it

[upper juniper]

PStatus is really awkward to use though

Most weapons aren’t exactly using other actions often enough to be getting 2 status effects off

I mean you could try getting your second status off the dash but

[neon sphinx]

Passion dash easy second curse

[quiet acorn]

ur prob already running aphro on atk

[lethal quartz]

I got a build for 32 heat, but now i just gotta stop running into traps like an idiot.

I do all right until Elysium, then I keep accidentally dodging into the traps when avoiding enemies...ughhhh

But if I can get better at that, I should be able to clear.

Those Flame Wheels, man

[upper juniper]

Turning off Heightened Securitt for an extra heat somewhere else is a pretty decent play depending on your heat level

[lethal quartz]

I don't have it on, lmao.

I just have take more damage + halved healing.

And I suck, so there's that.

Might need to bite the bullet and take Athena Dash crutch every attempt...

[upper juniper]

Oh I figured since you mentioned traps specifically

[lethal quartz]

Yeah, I turned it off because I got annihilated in Ashpodel.

Turns out, I am like a magnet for dashing into traps either way

[upper juniper]

What’s your pact look like? (You can send images via embed links)

[upper juniper]

Unironically I find it pretty useful in asphodel to save me time with resetting stubborn defiance

But outside of that case it’s just asking to accidentally end your run

[lethal quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/888471169093750798/1364984539751120946/image.png?ex=680ba86a&is=680a56ea&hm=3f124c21310e7e9e2c892f093467d5ba4f3ecdfbb861f313ebbf0c5d1c34ea90&

Zeus Shield, going for Zeus Special build, but since I'm more focused on keeping alive than time, maybe I should just swap my keepsake to Athena and Deflect Deflect Deflect

[upper juniper]

Oh my gosh

Holy that looks so hellish for

is this a 40 heat pact? Or a 32

[lethal quartz]

32

[verbal atlas]

Holy yeah, there are so many things I would personally change here lmao

[upper juniper]

Jury Summons 2, Calesthenics Program 2 and Damage Control 2

The unholy trinity

[jaunty falcon]

Up the timer and tone down the hp increases

[upper juniper]

If you remove all the enemy survivability ones (the 3 I just mentioned) and put on an equivalent amount of timer you should have runs that are way less of a slog to get through, goodness

[jaunty falcon]

Less time spent also = less damage taken

[verbal atlas]

You are running zeus shield with zeus special so you can probably keep the damage control, get rid of calesthenics program, up lasting consequences (these are just some of the changes i would do if i was playing but then again i am way more comfortable at zeus that you)

[shy plinth]

That pact looks extremely difficult

Routine inspection is so punishing

Tbh I'd strongly recommend checking Bananas' pinned heat guide just to make sure you aren't making things harder on yourself - some of the options on your pact are highly punishing and aren't typically recommended until 45-50+

In particular:
-Jury Summons can be fine to take at 40ish once you're pushing heat, but it's a lot slower than it seems
-Calisthenics Program extends runs in a dramatic fashion - as an example, it gives Hades 10,000 more health. The extra time you will spend fighting juiced up enemies creates moments of danger and risk that leave little room for error.
-Routine Inspection (especially when combined with Convenience Fee) makes your builds way weaker due to the loss of Dark Foresight - without rerolls it's also much harder to target a specific build. This further extends time per encounter.

In addition, the combination of partial measures with Forced Overtime, Hard Labor, and Lasting Consequences means you kinda get the downsides of all of these options without any focus to the pact. So you're just gonna deal with faster and harder hitting enemies with less health

Shackle's advice is good - make the run faster so you can amp up Tight Deadline. Bananas' guide is excellent and covers a lot of this stuff in detail! It may also be wise to review your mirror options too

[lethal quartz]

I used all the mirror options in Banana's guide

I tried something new with heat one sec

[shy plinth]

👀

[lethal quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/888471169093750798/1365001348780916777/image.png?ex=680bb812&is=680a6692&hm=ce0eebe59058db8b408d87d66485bada30276a81653c1e0aac9b3bf8e5a3676a&

This feels comfortable. What should I do to up it two more heat?

[broken echo]

Much more reasonable yeah

[lethal quartz]

I usually would go Routine Inspection.

[broken echo]

Do LC4 and switch to stubborn defiance

[lethal quartz]

I have Stubborn Defiance

[shy plinth]

LC4 for sure

[broken echo]

Oh yeah then lc4 should def be the take

[lethal quartz]

Doesn't LC4 mean I don't heal at ALL

?

[shy plinth]

You use stubborn defiance for "healing"

[upper juniper]

LC4 Stubborn does take a minute to adjust to

[upper juniper]

You heal from stubborn and max hp increases

[shy plinth]

Just as a note on Routine Inspection - I would not recommend taking that pact until like 50+

Dark Foresight is HUGE

[lethal quartz]

Hmm, okay, I'll try it.

[shy plinth]

It's ~6 more gold doors per run

[lethal quartz]

Probably need to adjust to LC4 stubborn a bit

[shy plinth]

Yes definitely. It takes some time, you gotta clean up boss fights

I was used to facerolling them

[upper juniper]

I’d run a 20 heat pact with lc4 for a little bit before you step straight into 32, it lets you use it for a longer run so you can have practice with it farther in

[lethal quartz]

That's why I decided to go for 32. I was facerolling 16 heat while grinding out gemstones and such, so I thought "all right, let's do it."

[broken echo]

Zeus should be ok for that. Just send out the special and block. Once you’re more comfortable with how enemies move, try the bullrush combo

[shy plinth]

It's also worth noting that a combination of FO and HL5 is gonna feel really punishing

You can do it, but faster enemies that hit twice as hard is a big adjustment

[broken echo]

Personally I would recommend fo2 td3

[shy plinth]

The general recommendation is to do TD3, but if you're not used to playing with a timer, that can feel scary

[broken echo]

With no js or cp it’s much more reasonable

[shy plinth]

Either FO2 and a low amount of HL or HL5 FO0

[lethal quartz]

5 min timer feels scary...

and FO 1 isn't that bad but I guess if I'm not getting hit, I can try it

[shy plinth]

You will be surprised how much faster runs will be without all of those run slowing pacts

[lethal quartz]

that's why I tried to avoid the timer at all costs--I am just not a good time trial player in general

But I just ran Tartarus at 7:00 to test the build and it went fine, so I guess I'll try at 5:00 to see if FO is better turned off (and would equal better time)

[shy plinth]

The other option is to go FO2 HL1

You've got two different ways to go here - make the enemies faster OR make them more dangerous

Doing both simultaneously is pretty risky, but doing one or the other can work

[upper juniper]

If you’re clearing times are anywhere close to 20 minutes on average prior to your taking off the enemy survivability pacts

You’ll be fine

It doesn’t take too much to actually push your times under 20 consistently

especially if you read the 32 heat guide to get a better grasp on play and building weapons

[lethal quartz]

Yeah I read the guide and took the advice on everything except the heat because I am a weenie for LC4 and 5:00

But I guess I'll take off all those, see what my times are without the extra bloated pacts

and go from there

ok, here's the new build:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/888471169093750798/1365004804463529984/image.png?ex=680bbb49&is=680a69c9&hm=e2fd3e7b0be0d42b7c489d2381a742bbda59538a69187f75d95e7134c9db9532&

Zeus shield was what first cleared on, what I first cleared EM4 on, and what I cleared 16 heat on, so going with what I know best.

[shy plinth]

Give it a shot!

[lethal quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/888471169093750798/1365004831764250675/image.png?ex=680bbb50&is=680a69d0&hm=4979394a1b2ea77b0703a1a74ed8868fb415adcb08480ab597512ae4accc7af5&

And the heat

[shy plinth]

Nice lookin pact right there

[lethal quartz]

Well, first let me see if I can get to TD3 at a lower heat level, and if I can, then its time to start 32

[lethal quartz]

All right, beat Hades on TD3 with 3 seconds to spare, now to try to amp up the difficulty

[forest token]

You can totally take dc2 on Zeus shield with Zeus special btw

Would mess up the timing for Meg summon lineups tho

[lethal quartz]

Made it to Elysium boss, then minotaur got me, ugh. Getting better at this though.

[broken echo]

What’s your build like

[lethal quartz]

#h1-high-heat-strategies message

Heat is right after this

[broken echo]

I mean your boons

[lethal quartz]

Zeus special on Zeus shield, trying to get jolted, double bolt damage, etc, try to get Athena Dash because I am bad, and then whatever I get after that.

[broken echo]

Yeah should be a solid build then

Do you have explosive return

[lethal quartz]

I try to get it, yes

[broken echo]

Could be an issue with your dps combo then

[lethal quartz]

yeah I think I need to practice the combo a bit more.

[broken echo]

https://youtu.be/jCd8FuYezpE

Practice on skelly really helps

[lethal quartz]

okay, got to second phase Redacted this time, did something stupid and lowered my shield when he was doing his lasers. >.< But I know I can get there now.

[quiet acorn]

32?

[lethal quartz]

Yeah on 32

[quiet acorn]

nice

[broken echo]

Many such cases

[sly cove]

if u real u hug

[upper juniper]

Real gamers actually just burst him down before it matters

[sly cove]

tf kinda build is achieving this 😭😭😭

dude

i honestly wanna like

mod hades so u can toggle the infernal/stygian soul

when its off

just cuz i think itd be super funny to have a trippy beo at 60+ heat

[quiet acorn]

32 heat def possible

[sly cove]

maybe if u highroll to the moon

[upper juniper]

This is definitely possibly on any heat level that doesn’t run cp2 and em4

Bugowulf for one

Just peak rng bugowulf

[sly cove]

u need crazy highroll tho

[upper juniper]

Just hit the boons?

[sly cove]

my fastest heat kills havent skipped laser a single time idt

[upper juniper]

There are only a handful on pacts that boost Hades survivability

[quiet acorn]

wdym

its 32 heat you can get any build you want and then just tank the lasers

shackle didnt say skip lasers he said it wont matter

[south violet]

It's just spicy anyheat, all is fine. For 32, given a good enough pact, one can use the same builds that one would in anyheat and be fine

Even on a piece of garbage like gilga you can sort of play dad like this on 32 if the pact is good enough

[lethal quartz]

Update: I DID IT

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1365341227855249528/image.png?ex=680cf49b&is=680ba31b&hm=bc18701a3ea59e946e06c3098cc54ef830918864f9a62433cc92c27011b89c4e&

[left prism]

Gamer

[shy plinth]

Well done

[forest token]

The only difference btwn anyheat and 32 heat for speed is the fact that you don't have high confidence basically lmao

[sly cove]

the diff is i dont run 32 speed

[wicked musk]

whats the highest heat thats been cleared boonless?

[delicate knoll]

i think 60 or 62 with rama

[sly cove]

ainnoway tf

[delicate knoll]

yeah rama can clear 64 heat, that's how strong it is

the biggest issue in a boonless run is damage output which is also no problem because shared suffering is built in additive damage

[final gorge]

what's the best pact for 45 heat with rama bow?

or basically the next tier after 40 heat

[sly cove]

nah but not having base boons seems ass

and like

i guess u got shackle but shackle = no acorn

idk id believe if like a 50 or 55 got done but 60 is crazy

[delicate knoll]

depends on if you're using the modpack or not

[final gorge]

im not

[delicate knoll]

then I'd avoid taking any approval process

or 1 level at most

[final gorge]

okay you're hella right, ty

[broken echo]

Mirror is the same

[final gorge]

i meant pact, sorry

[broken echo]

Pact is honestly pretty flexible, I’d do ri2 at most and ap1 at most for better chances at hunter dash and point blank/perfect

Otherwise Rama can deal pretty well with everything else

[final gorge]

okay, ty

[sly cove]

i feel like ap is unavoidable

unless u wanna take ri or em

did i do rama 45

idr

i think i did

[broken echo]

Ri0 ap0 is very chill

Pretty reasonable for Rama

[sly cove]

for 45?

[quiet acorn]

yes

its just ri0 ap0 em4 50 without the em4

right

[sly cove]

the math isnt mathing in my head but maybe i suck at math

[quiet acorn]

its physics

[sly cove]

i ran 50 with all heat except js2 em3 ri0 i think?

oh

i missed cp

oh right discord no images

cringe

im on phone

nvm that looks ass

anyw em3 cp1 ri0 ap0 full heat otherwise without pl is exactly 45

[quiet acorn]

@Aspect of Level 50 Divine Dash Watch your language.

[sly cove]

but then u gotta deal with cp1 js3 (ew)

[quiet acorn]

ap1 is free

[sly cove]

i think biting the bullet and taking ap1 makes it a lot easier

[quiet acorn]

theres no bullet

[south violet]

I'm ngl I don't think ri2 is too bad at 45 or 50. It does occasionally cause you to not have damage but JS3 CP2 feels atrocious and can screw you over exponentially more the more heats you put into these two settings

[sly cove]

oops

so apparently

just bringing in a maxed save file finishes like 80% of the achievements

[broken echo]

what did you expect to happen

[sly cove]

idk

i thought id have to like

do them again

[silver mica]

some games work that way

celeste does

[whole kelp]

just finished 32 heat on all weapons
naively raises heat to 45
make it to elysium with a breeze
run into HL5 FO2 flamewheels
dead

[delicate knoll]

wait until they get the speeder perk from bp2, so much more fun 😃 👍

[south violet]

Suddenly speederslugger greatshields / archers

[whole kelp]

Imma be real i never even paid attention to what the perks were LOL

[south violet]

I think you might want to start doing that

[whole kelp]

i just turned it on and never looked back. The only ones i know are te obvious ones (teleport, laser, recovery heart, etc.)

[whole kelp]

That's definitely a good idea haha

[delicate knoll]

it's most important in tartarus and elysium, a few of the troublesome ones are tart exclusive