h1-high-heat-strategies

[sinful zodiac]

he use fo1 iirc

i used fo2 instead

[shy plinth]

Yeah the pact I used for 32x24 is in the pins and it has fo2

[forest token]

him using fo1 doesnt make sense considering how accomplished of a runner he is lmao

[shy plinth]

Most first time 32s are usually fo2

[forest token]

are they really

[shy plinth]

Er no

NOT fo2

They're usually hl5 lol

[forest token]

lmao that sounds about right

[shy plinth]

But haelian has his pact for people who don't wanna give up dds

It's a hodgepodge with partial lc

I think it has ap1

[rugged hinge]

i tried fo2
died in tart

[forest token]

well most reddit pacts (which are probably the majority of players tbh) is like low td, hl, and lc and everything else cranked up

some ri and ap sprinkled in

[sinful zodiac]

i remember correctly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_vBtcO2dlg

fo1

[forest token]

idk a lot of reddit pacts looking at it now is pretty cursed

[forest token]

huh weird

i guess he wanted a more chill run

[shy plinth]

It's not for him, it's for the audience

[forest token]

although idk how chill hs makes a run lmao

[sinful zodiac]

i even tried his em4 fo0 for arthur

life changing for sure

fo2 arthur is just pain

[forest token]

sounds about right

[shy plinth]

It's not that bad unless you have dc

[noble kite]

OH MY GOD

i did the first floor with 0 seconds left on the clock

Im him

[sinful zodiac]

face tank everything kek https://imgur.com/a/Jc009GP

[shy plinth]

Nice job

[wispy blade]

yeah he puts out a super cursed pact

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1028112977100017666/1142393755920511026/IMG_1705.png

[shy plinth]

It's for people who wanna limp through without giving up dds and get the statue

Which is probs most of the audience

[wispy blade]

hl2 js3

[sinful zodiac]

td2 is still kinda brutal for that play style

[shy plinth]

I would not give this pact as advice but I am also not a famous YouTuber

[sinful zodiac]

js3 does not spark joy

[wispy blade]

idr think there’s a schema where hl2 js3 fo1 td2 is like ever the strat

and ap1

and the setup he calls brutal was the one in the 32 guide

you know

the easiest 32 in the game

[shy plinth]

Hl5 can feel intimidating if you're used to face tanking on dds late in runs

[sinful zodiac]

i used this guide which feature my setup with fo2, he did say that only take it if you are used to it

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/i-whupped-hades-ass

[shy plinth]

OK I like 30 of the heat points here

But cf2 lc2????

[wispy blade]

lol

[shy plinth]

Reject healing. Purchase boons

[wispy blade]

that guy got gud at some point between writing that and the build guide and now

he has 50 allspects and a 57

unmodded

[shy plinth]

Jeez

And I mean 32x24 is still no joke

[wispy blade]

meh

[sinful zodiac]

he recommend bananas guide too :))

[shy plinth]

That's an accomplishment by any realistic metric

[wispy blade]

32x24 is just a slog it’s not rlly a challenge to clear

[sinful zodiac]

true 11/24

[wispy blade]

because 24 is a lot of aspects

im never gonna do anything all aspects because i don’t want to play a lot of them

[sinful zodiac]

the sword is just ME spam

the fist too actually

[wispy blade]

but at 50 it’s actually hard to clear with the worse aspects

part of that is me being mega ass at the game

but still like

talos

gilga

[sinful zodiac]

yoyo talos is actually fun

viable, maybe not

but at 32 heat, fist is just pray for ME or pray for RD in my experience

[wispy blade]

on fists u can just do zap

[sinful zodiac]

i like angel strategy with sword at high heat, dio on attack

that pretty much it

[wispy blade]

i simply do not play sword high heat

[noble kite]

Will i just get faster times with each run or are there things you can do to speed up ur time

[wispy blade]

both

u get faster as u play

but check out

[noble kite]

Alr

[wispy blade]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxwSsTPubI

[bleak grotto]

You dare?

[forest token]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1136150091040817172/IMG_9013.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1136150091334430791/IMG_9014.png

[wispy blade]

idek how play heat

[sinful zodiac]

I watch fresh file category and that does not look fun

[wispy blade]

false side is still new and did the same thing that took me like 3 weeks with no sweat

[forest token]

i mean you have a what 54 clear or something?

[wispy blade]

54 = 50

it’s hestia

[forest token]

that doesnt mean you're not skilled

[forest token]

50 is still high lmao

most dont even dare pass 32

[sinful zodiac]

what is the typical 50 setup, now i wanna try it

[wispy blade]

there’s a lot of diff ones

[sinful zodiac]

still hate beowulf btw so no thank

[wispy blade]

most of mine have been on diff pacts

[shy plinth]

This is excellent

[forest token]

also if you wanna call your skill "ass" then that's putting down like 99% of the player base lmao

[shy plinth]

99% is underselling

[forest token]

ive been sending it every time jazz calls herself bad at the game

[shy plinth]

99.9

[forest token]

unironically true

jazz has 40 heat wr and 2nd place for 32 heat

[shy plinth]

Oh yeah that's literal

[forest token]

both modded

and a what top 25 time anyheat modded or something

[shy plinth]

This is a thing in every game, the high level players have exceptional skill in identifying opportunities for optimization

Which means everything is a paradigm of "how many mistakes did I make"

It all starts from 0 as a goal and a number larger than 0 in reality

Very hard to break free from that construct and high level players view the game through that lens

[wispy blade]

i have so many mistakes in every run i can’t rlly be considered good

[forest token]

my brother in christ

[shy plinth]

But truly the vast majority of players cannot even identify the mistakes

[forest token]

you have a 5:21

[shy plinth]

And then they blame getting five sacked

[wispy blade]

i think i got a sub6 where i accidentally took a normal tunnel first

[forest token]

most mistakes aren't obvious to the casual player, which is 99% of the player base

[wispy blade]

the end room wasn’t too bad

it was like a c34

[forest token]

point still stands lmao

there's quite literally no reason to call yourself bad at the game when you have tons of achievements 99.9% of players wouldn't even dream about getting

[bleak grotto]

As an average player, can confirm

[sinful zodiac]

1st 40 heat btw

damn

[forest token]

speedrunners and heat pushers aren't the majority of the player base, you just surround yourself by them lmao

[wispy blade]

i mean my standards for good player are basically just better than me

[shy plinth]

Yes

[wispy blade]

like i look at top runs and i count 2 or 3 mistakes

and in my runs there are like 10

[shy plinth]

That's not useful in any context outside of your own head

[wispy blade]

that are visible

[shy plinth]

It's indicative of your drive and ability

[forest token]

and then you look at a casual run and you can probably count like idk 50

[shy plinth]

Uh

In tart maybe

[wispy blade]

from the length of my vod review texts i’d say like 500

[forest token]

just because other players are better than you doesn't mean you're bad lmao

[shy plinth]

Like okay here's an exercise

How many button presses does it take to do a run of hades

100,000?

[forest token]

like in the pics here, you aren't at the very top but you're still at the top lmao

[wispy blade]

nah

id say

hmmm

[shy plinth]

It's a very large number

[wispy blade]

with maybe 4 enemies avg per wave

and like

yeah this mental math doesn’t work

idk

some number

[shy plinth]

Right

Let's just guesstimate 100k

If you make 10 mistakes

[wispy blade]

a mistake isn’t an input sort of thing though

like

[shy plinth]

Sure let's say every mistake is 10 inputs

[wispy blade]

most mistakes aren’t mechanical flubs

[shy plinth]

Ah

You've done vod reviews

[wispy blade]

a mistake is usually positioning issue

manip issue

[shy plinth]

Would you say that's true for casuals

[wispy blade]

i mean the thing is

[shy plinth]

Mechanical flubs have to happen... a lot

Source: I do them

[wispy blade]

mechanical flubs are present throughout the run

like

back when i was just starting beo

i always did two dashes to do dash strike into rush

instead of one or maybe 2 for scoot

it cost me a lot of time in furies

and some elsewhere

but it popped up often

that sort of thing is of course an issue but you can also just tell someone they’re doing it and it’s not hard to fix

especially on beo a lot of issues are in how you clear a room

what order you kill the enemies

where you start and how you chain that up and how you make it to your manip after

your stone management

[shy plinth]

So your execution issues are largely in mechanics that most players are unaware of

I'm gonna push back on "bad" lol

[wispy blade]

but also

i’m comparatively way better at speed than heat

ive seen loads of people go from beginner to surpassing me in a matter of like a month

or people pop up and just be better than me

[forest token]

that doesn't make you bad at heat

[sinful zodiac]

I don't think I will ever like speedrun since the concept is not fun to me

[forest token]

you have better heat achievements than me and i wrote a whole ass guide

[sinful zodiac]

But for sure i will try high heat

and I think most people will be more like me

[forest token]

just because there's tons of people better than me doesn't mean i'm gonna call myself bad at the game lmao

you need to recognize that you're vastly better than the majority of players, top 0.1% of players even

and like yeah there are people better than you

but also you're way better than 99.9% of players

also calling yourself garbage at the game is indirectly calling everyone else literal ass at the game lmao

[bleak grotto]

I think physically I actually can't get to jazz's level. jazz is good player

[wispy blade]

any1 could

i bashed my head against the wall for 700 hours

[forest token]

that doesnt make you bad at the game lmao

also like

you were grinding sub6s when you passed my game hours

[wispy blade]

i was still not that good atp it took me like hours to get each one

could only do cause summer is summer and i am a child with no obligations

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1028112977100017666/1152097807126237264/IMG_1833.png

compared to

meanwhile there’s ocke with 4 streak

[sinful zodiac]

should I just slam my head with this setup until I make it?

https://imgur.com/a/uDPH9ja

[forest token]

i mean you'll probably get it eventually

ri2 instead of em4 might be better tho

[sinful zodiac]

I'm pretty comfortable with fo1 em4, never try fo2 tho

[forest token]

ngl the issue might be time rather than survivability lmao

[sinful zodiac]

yeah, i think so too

[forest token]

js2 cp1 might be better because the waves will trickle less?

instead of js3

although boss fights are longer so idk

esp with em4

idk pact is probably fine

just depends how you play

and the build you get

i'd try out this pact first and see how that goes

nothing's really glaring other than like dying to time because dc2 js3 em4

or even like dying to time in tart with dc2 js3 lmao

[sinful zodiac]

I died to time on chaos shield a few time because of 4 sack

man that thing is slow

[forest token]

lmao yeah

shields aren't that fast except beo tbf

zeus is difficult to go fast with

[sinful zodiac]

dead at lernie lmao

some run just give me common flourish so I just reset

the time is tough, I was about 30s-1m slower than usual

[pseudo flame]

U might have an easier time to do td 2

[sinful zodiac]

Probably

Feel like I’m not ready for 50

[hoary pasture]

What's the highest you've done

[sinful zodiac]

40

I’m used to em4 and fo2 so I think I can mess with ri and ap to push 50

Boy I was wrong

[sinful zodiac]

This

[hoary pasture]

Just try 45

[sinful zodiac]

I did make it to elysium but die to the bull minoboss

Welp, time to learn beo

[ashen garnet]

40 to 50 is rough as heat difficulty curve is exponential. You may want to arbitrarily choose a smaller step like 42/45/47

[hoary pasture]

The pact you're using is pretty good

[forest token]

You don't have to use beo, use whatever you're comfortable with that's actually good lmao

Zeus is fine

[sinful zodiac]

I’m reading spawn manipulation because the witches is just so annoying

[forest token]

Fair tbh

[sinful zodiac]

I died in tart most of the time

[forest token]

Time?

[sinful zodiac]

Yeah

[quiet acorn]

how much time do u typically need for em4

[forest token]

Sounds about right

[forest token]

I think like 3 mins or something

[quiet acorn]

alr

[sinful zodiac]

4-5 min

[quiet acorn]

uh

[sinful zodiac]

Might be too slow

[quiet acorn]

ig thats the main reason why it isnt chosen

[forest token]

Yeah lmao

Em4 is a pretty large time sink

Not to mention a hard fight

Hard fight is generally a larger reason tbf

[hoary pasture]

4 - 5 min on Zeus is fairly reasonable

[forest token]

Also side note

You don't want to get splitting bolt on zeus

You're not likely to get it tbf, but it is possible

[sinful zodiac]

The run I made it to elysium didn’t even have jolted

Cursed stuff

[forest token]

Lmao rip

Scaling begone

[ashen garnet]

EM3>EM4 + TD3>TD2 is still +1 heat

[sinful zodiac]

Explosive return carried

[hoary pasture]

Splitting is fine

It's great damage

[forest token]

Block bug tho

[hoary pasture]

Well nobody figured out the reason for it

It's just speculation

Besides

Don't throw your shield out problem solved

[forest token]

I mean it does happen tho

Lmao I mean

I'm not gonna remember that in a fight

[ashen garnet]

Don't rely on block too much, particularly for aoes

[hoary pasture]

Well you have to

If you dont remember it that's on you

Splitting will save you time in other areas

[forest token]

Fair I guess

[hoary pasture]

So you have more for the fight, and again it's great damage

Cant just generalize because of a few outlier cases

[quiet acorn]

em4 should have status immunity

[forest token]

If you can buy a summon I'd buy it

This looks doable for a 2 min dad fight tho

Oh you already cleared it lmao nice

Looks like I was right on the 2 min dad fight

[quiet acorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088591737309638746/1152291114607460442/Screenshot_2023-09-15_at_10.25.25_PM.png

i need to stop turning on em4

ive seen people using drunk strike but i cant seem to get it do do any damage

[forest token]

It doesn't have good damage lmao

It has consistency because all you need are poms

And you can get a lot of early ones I Tartarus without ap screwing you over

[wispy blade]

the main thing about it is consistency and the fact that u still deal damage while not attacking

[forest token]

Drunk is probably better for ap2 for consistency

[quiet acorn]

also u can only hit 1 guy at a time

and takes forver

[wispy blade]

there was a discussion

hold on

"its pretty annoying but its more consistent than lightning"

from amb

[quiet acorn]

why do some boons randomly. give me 4 boons

in trials

[wispy blade]

are you playing modded

[quiet acorn]

yea

i got that first boon thing on

[wispy blade]

did u quit out

[quiet acorn]

no

[wispy blade]

ask herehttps://discord.com/channels/523766637212598276/548318455695278123

[quiet acorn]

ill try to get a pic

[wispy blade]

its fiery

on anyheat

shadow with dc2

u do

2 ways

either just picking enemies off on spawn

or tagging all except one or two enemies and then hitting those untagged with dash strike power shot

yeah shadow dc2

[quiet acorn]

do u take earring or acorn to elysium

[wispy blade]

on what

what heat

[quiet acorn]

oh right

eris

[wispy blade]

whats ur time

[quiet acorn]

i took acorn its ok

[wispy blade]

yea

thats probably gonna be the answer

aspho is the usual spot to take earring

[sinful zodiac]

https://imgur.com/a/A0AOhYT

no jolted and now this

man i'm cursed

[sinful zodiac]

Does the skull go through the shield block or i just stand too close to him

No idea how those thing hit me even when i’m blocking

[bleak grotto]

Shield block should block and erase skull

[wispy blade]

if u stand too close he can go thru ur shield

[sinful zodiac]

Got it, don’t think i going to win that anyway

3min30s with cp1 em4

Yeah no shot

[forest token]

Well you'd rather take defensive into ely and Styx

You could take earring in those biomes, esp Ely, but it's just more dangerous

Earring in aspho is fine because you will save some time at least

And you'll get a bigger bank

[quiet acorn]

jolted rarity vs pom?

[forest token]

Is this eury

What other boons do you have

[quiet acorn]

yea

zeus atk

i just rarirty

its ok

[forest token]

Is that it lmao

[quiet acorn]

yea

[forest token]

I mean the difference here isn't a lot lmao

Yeah rarity

[quiet acorn]

yea

[forest token]

Jolted rarity is literally a pom iirc

Or like similar to a pom at least

I could check old messages

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007734863186624562/1100935505065037965/output.png

[quiet acorn]

but oranges funny

[forest token]

Oh yeah rarity is better

Actually it's the same lmao

Actually I'm illiterate I can't tell

Rarity probably better

[quiet acorn]

i nearly always take tooth for lernie bc it just kills me lol

i cant tell the headslams

its just happens

tho

my reaction time is bad

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088591737309638746/1152355888540172438/image.png

lol

[wispy blade]

gg

u got a lot of time tho

[wispy blade]

u could either only do it when u want to dash iframe

or just not use it

u have a big time bank rn

[quiet acorn]

nah i got a bit mad so i quit

[wispy blade]

gg

[quiet acorn]

[wispy blade]

thats why we dodge secodn hammer tho

[quiet acorn]

i totally forgot it existed

forgot i had a chance to anvil it out too sadge

[wispy blade]

yea

also like

ur jolted and attack r big there

u can kinda just avoud using it

wait

you have delta chamber

its fine

just dash iframe it

dont need 100% uptime

[forest token]

Fair

Lernie tooth is comfy

[weary summit]

What aspect should i start using for medium heat. Just getting into 25ish heat and i have no idea what to use. I have tried aspect of zeus and it feels clunky and its not really for me. Any suggestions?

[shy plinth]

Eris, Hestia, Rama, Hera, Demeter if you like melee, Achilles if you really like spear

The best aspect will be the one you know the best

But overall, I'd probably start with Eris or Hestia if you want the smoothest onramp to higher heat. They're both quite strong

[forest token]

damn 50 rama kinda hard

maybe dc2 ri1 isn't the play lmao

[forest token]

true i guess

i think part of my problem was also having no flat damage on the special

no chip or anything

how based would it be if i started thunder flourish

[forest token]

i can't believe i got ely archers in dad fight

literally as bad as butterfly ball on em4 on rama i swear

if i got any other summon i would've been fine but those things shoot like 9 in a row

and there's 2 of them

[sinful zodiac]

How do you bind reload on kbm for hestia

use reload on keyboard make my movement weird but I've already bind MB4 for special and MB5 for reload feel clunky

[clever otter]

i use mmb

[river jacinth]

Ok so uhh

[hot moss]

my keybinds are mb1 -> attack, mb2 -> special, mb3 -> summon, mb4 -> call, mb5 -> cast, shift -> reload

[river jacinth]

I don’t even know what high heat is but I’d like to ask for advice

I’ve only been playing for a few days and I got up to hades

But I’m not sure what builds to run and stuff

I play on switch by the way

[hot moss]

you have to beat hades before unlocking heat

[river jacinth]

Ohhh

I honestly wanted advice on what to use the blood on which weapons and stuff to beat hades

I went with shield of chaos but I should have bought that Pom first honestly

[hot moss]

chaos shield is probably the best for u

[river jacinth]

Like I forgot to buy poms because I didn’t know I was gonna face hades

I like shield

[hot moss]

same

[river jacinth]

Should i keep investing

Or should I try Zeus shield

If I recall I had a lot of death defy stuff

[hot moss]

chaos shield is much easier to use imo

[river jacinth]

I usually use Athena’s thing first to get her boon then I use Cerberus then finally skellys tooth thing

I haven’t levelled up death defy yet

My strategy is to get as much health as I can so I can survive

[hot moss]

try to get max level death defy as soon as possible

[river jacinth]

Ok so I should grind darkness?

[hot moss]

i dont think you need to

[shy plinth]

So we're happy to answer questions here, but keep in mind a lot of the discussion in this channel is going to be geared around 32 heat

#h1-builds-and-combat is really active and will have a wide array ofr advice - but you're welcome to ask here too 🙂

When you're really early on, the main thing to focus on is mirror progress imo

Every level you unlock makes you so much more powerful

[river jacinth]

Thanks my bad by the way

[shy plinth]

In particular, more DDs and Family Favorite are big rows to unlock

Oh no problem

Happens all the time and we are more than happy to help here - it's just not the most active channel and a lot of the chatter can be quite overwhelming if you're early on

We use a lot of acronyms lol

[sinful zodiac]

i like the shift idea since I use my pinky when I'm coding as well

hurt like hell afterward tho

[forest token]

man i suck with rama lmao

[rugged hinge]

not as bad as me with sword or achilles

[forest token]

i threw a run with heroic heartbreak strike and an epic chaos lunge

i was one shot off from beating heroes

and had like a 4 min time bank

[rugged hinge]

if my regular runs(heat 5-15) take 25-33 minutes(if im feeling sloppy and weak), and my first heat 32 run took 40 minutes(i love shield camping), should i consider td1

[forest token]

yeah it didn't go well

i got hit by a spear swing and then died to ares doom

yeah lmao

[sinful zodiac]

if you can hit him, I can't hit him in his joyride

[forest token]

i've relied so much on cshot i forgot shields existed

most of my damage on chariot theseus was from like shared suffering lmao

any attacks i hit on him were unintentional that whole time

[sinful zodiac]

I get rammed doing stuff like that

[forest token]

but yeah i feel like i could've won that

flamewheels c34 and other junk made me enter heroes with not full sd

i had twin point blank

[sinful zodiac]

I really screw myself with dash at cursor, make me so bad at dashing

[forest token]

i had big damage

bad execution

had epic lunge since tart lmao

[sinful zodiac]

dropping that habit make me so much better but I really not precise with the isometric view

used to old 2d game

[rugged hinge]

its been so long since ive done second phase, ive just been instakilling him everytime with beo/mort

[sinful zodiac]

tbh, I prefer mort but the butterfly ball miniboss

that alone make me switch to meg

[forest token]

mm

homie's zooming

i guess

[rugged hinge]

i just kill asterius normally and then bonk theseus phase 2
asterius is easy for me, theseus is annoying

[forest token]

stand on the gorgon and wait for the thwomp to come down

and iframe the hit

with the summon

[sinful zodiac]

i always hit 1 witch with meg

[forest token]

do you have the right set up?

[quiet acorn]

can u summon when ur frozen

[forest token]

yes

yes

i've done it

pretty sure anyways

i purposely like

[sinful zodiac]

I'm suck at setting up zag direction

[forest token]

dont move/dash to get the line up on the thwomp

[sinful zodiac]

so i just miss

[forest token]

meg can get cancelled??

ive never heard or seen that happen

weird

[sinful zodiac]

i've seen people do that, just fail to replicate lmao

[forest token]

https://youtu.be/s49jVwc6rS8?t=544

timestamped

weird

i've never heard of that happen before

i actually hit a 4 witch meg with dc2 rama lmao

i still died in the run

but it did happen

[quiet acorn]

most of my runs are brickwalling at asterius

[sinful zodiac]

neat, use the shield to adjust the direction

haven't though of that

[quiet acorn]

both

[forest token]

oh yeah you have to aim/shoot the top witch there

if you dont aim it then the meg direction is weird

[quiet acorn]

for heat i only mod hammer sack and first boon

for the miniboss u dont have acorn or patty

[sinful zodiac]

I died to the bull man so many time

[rugged hinge]

my strat is:
get behind/away during attack
dash through the jump
die to a banana

[sinful zodiac]

I even get the autograph for dying to hero too much

lmao

[quiet acorn]

the spin is alright just dash away

[rugged hinge]

oh for that i cower in fear and block with shield

[quiet acorn]

like 70% bc of the bull rush

[rugged hinge]

just facetank it

[quiet acorn]

he 1 shots u theres no health to tank

[sinful zodiac]

he is pretty easy with hestia

melee weapon is really tough

[quiet acorn]

it does like 80 dmg or something

huh

i remember seeing 70 something

yea i just suck at dodging in general

i actually am going to do that

scrwe him

what are those hyperdelivery options

[sinful zodiac]

I know speedrunner hate barge but for me that the easiest miniboss

man I love that thing

[quiet acorn]

witches easier

[sinful zodiac]

not with dc2 yeah

[forest token]

Barge is super easy but takes forever

With mm it's not as bad tho

[quiet acorn]

idk

[forest token]

But still takes a lot longer

[quiet acorn]

with eris dc2 isnt even noticable

[sinful zodiac]

yeah, mm barge is the best

[forest token]

It's bball miniboss but with invincibility basically

[quiet acorn]

ik but just get the dc2 off before she hits

[forest token]

But also you have to wait longer for spawns and end of encounter

Yeah

That thing is super tanky

It's like close to bball I think

[sinful zodiac]

unless breaching on fist, meg always

[forest token]

I'd only do that on like sneak or non mm ball tbh

I guess barge mm too

[quiet acorn]

what about tartarus

[sinful zodiac]

sneak, bomb guy?

and doomstone

[quiet acorn]

i mean what does the mod set it to

the miniboss one

oh ok nice

[sinful zodiac]

I see people meg sneak

[forest token]

Oh is there lmao

I just go by visual

[sinful zodiac]

gamble with mort on sneak used to be my thing

good time

[forest token]

Lmfao based tbh

[quiet acorn]

i used all of them for the codex

[sinful zodiac]

call for mort during than is funny

[quiet acorn]

dusa head doesnt even stun bosses

[sinful zodiac]

you should try it

[quiet acorn]

they do

[sinful zodiac]

than once wipe all 6 Wave Maker before I can break their shield and yeet the win

i'm actually impressed rather than pissed

[forest token]

They def do

There were so many blue men

It didn't stop

[noble kite]

What can i switch out tight deadline for

Its the only thing im struggling with for 32 heat

[pseudo kernel]

whats your pact

[noble kite]

Wdym

[pseudo kernel]

what heat do you have

[noble kite]

Im tryna do 32 but i dont wanna use max td

So 26

[pseudo kernel]

bro

what heat modifiers do you have on

[noble kite]

Oh

Hard labor, lastijg consequences, extreme measures 3, benefits package, middle management, underworld customs

[pseudo kernel]

all of those maxed is 24 heat

whats your other 2 heat

[noble kite]

Oh convience fee

Mb i didnt see it

[pseudo kernel]

whats your build

and aspect

[noble kite]

Aspect of hera with megs summon and ares keepsake

[pseudo kernel]

you are starting with ares?

for hera you start aphro for her cast

[noble kite]

Oh

[forest token]

Starting with ares is probably the reason why you're timing out

[noble kite]

Alr i switched it

[sinful zodiac]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QBTpdXpdSxU&si=AKVugYCmh45MeUm1

More people use dd rather then sd

Damn

[bleak grotto]

That's me!

[pseudo kernel]

[sinful zodiac]

There are more people use td0 than i expected

[wispy blade]

this is going to churn out the worst pact imaginable

[sinful zodiac]

Seem like cheese build is the way to go

[wispy blade]

hl2 lc3 cf2 js3 em1 cp2 etc etc

cause like

peoples first 32 pacts are always hot garbage

[sinful zodiac]

Chiron most used

Lmao

[wispy blade]

painge

[sinful zodiac]

Did not expect that at all

[wispy blade]

i mean

its very expected

but its still painful to know

[rugged hinge]

me without td because im slow:

[wispy blade]

cause like over half of reddit posts are chiron

i still dont understand what people enjoy about it

[pseudo kernel]

brain off weapon

[bleak grotto]

Chiron so slow 😢

[wispy blade]

brain off weapon is beo

[rugged hinge]

so far ive noticed that the official discord server for a game clowns on reddit

[sinful zodiac]

Heart rend + splitting headache with dio daddy on special

Plus curse of nausea does sound tempting

[wispy blade]

hades subreddit is still in early acces meta

and even for early access they're still wrong

[pseudo kernel]

new players dont understand beo

i see them load 3 casts for witch

[wispy blade]

press m1 press m2 win

painge

[sinful zodiac]

Beo without dash strike is really unappealing

[bleak grotto]

No kill like overkill!

[rugged hinge]

i load 3 mirage casts for money pots

[bleak grotto]

I want jazz to know I run Stygian with Beo sometimes because lazy

[quiet acorn]

my friend says chiron must be good because haelian keeps saying its good

[wispy blade]

have u seen haelians recommended 32 pact

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1028112977100017666/1142393755920511026/IMG_1705.png

[sinful zodiac]

In his tier list video, chiron is s tier

[wispy blade]

he's rlly out here with hl2 cf2 ap1

[rugged hinge]

max js and bp

[bleak grotto]

Jury Summons 3 alone would destroy me

[wispy blade]

the most obscene part is definitely ap1

[rugged hinge]

i love seeing 10 witches with clone during a trial

[wispy blade]

ap1 sucks huge mega ass

[rugged hinge]

i took ap1

[wispy blade]

painge

[rugged hinge]

blame bananas for recommending it

[wispy blade]

did u do the td0 thing

[forest token]

Most people aren't aware of lc4 sd being a strat unless they ask experienced meta players

[bleak grotto]

It's okay. We exist to drive jazz crazy

[forest token]

Yeah he did td0

Ap1 is like

Valid there lmao

You gotta get 6 heat somehow and ap1 isn't that bad

[wispy blade]

id take at least td2

[sinful zodiac]

With td0, could just run lightning rod for the meme

Ngl, i would try that

[wispy blade]

i guess ap1 badness scales with ur building ability

[quiet acorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088591737309638746/1152701718589612072/image.png

[wispy blade]

wat

[rugged hinge]

ive seen 3-4

[wispy blade]

that is genuinely horrendous

[quiet acorn]

😭

[wispy blade]

jesus christ

that is downright offensive

with lightning strike and cursed slash

em4 cp2 dc1 ap1 td1

thats gotta be a joke

[quiet acorn]

thats what i thought too

[sinful zodiac]

Js3 too

[wispy blade]

went over time on td1

[rugged hinge]

im surprised there's no fo

[wispy blade]

well

if they took FO they might have to take off something bad

[bleak grotto]

Proof that sounding confident makes you right!

[wispy blade]

and they cant take anything bad off cause this is a meme pact

[rugged hinge]

hold on:
fo over cf

[wispy blade]

id take fo over cf

[sinful zodiac]

fo take time to get used to

[rugged hinge]

or uc

[sinful zodiac]

Mirror use god pride too

[wispy blade]

pride is good

oh wait

they're on legacy

lo

and

is that pstatus

with no status effects

other than cov

i think thats also blinding flash

but wow

[quiet acorn]

i wouldnt beat that at 0 heat

[sinful zodiac]

Does hunter mark count?

I think it does

[wispy blade]

yeah

but super inconsistnet

[sinful zodiac]

Which aspect can consistently use pstatus?

Chiron?

[wispy blade]

beo at 50 heat

chiron i guess

[sinful zodiac]

Maybe hera

[wispy blade]

not hera

[quiet acorn]

haelian recommends chiron for first clear in the video

[wispy blade]

[sinful zodiac]

I think he recommend chaos shield too

[wispy blade]

[quiet acorn]

in this vid?

[sinful zodiac]

Yeah, need to double check

[quiet acorn]

there was one guy who did the first 32 with no aspect which was funny

[wispy blade]

oh so chiron

[sinful zodiac]

10:07

Yeah, he rec chaos shield

[wispy blade]

what is he doing

[bleak grotto]

He trollin'

[quiet acorn]

oh yea he really does

no he says he did earlier and was wrong about it

[sinful zodiac]

Oh, did not watch the end there

But still, chiron?

[bleak grotto]

Chiron is kinda nice if you lack dexterity like I do

[sinful zodiac]

I played the game because of angel so zeus shield is first clear and also first 32 for me

My first clear also have meme beam too

[rugged hinge]

my first clear was dem, and i had 1 use on fists prior to that run

[forest token]

i'm pretty sure in the vid he said that he recced it in his old guide

but hardly anyone used it in the data he collected

https://youtu.be/QBTpdXpdSxU?t=612

yeah here he says that he was wrong for reccing chaos

i think the only thing that would make the data more accurate was how many attempts it took per pact/setup or whatever

because like cursed pacts will eventually work given enough time

but that's too difficult to do

because hardly anyone talks about how many it takes

and not accurate numbers

[pseudo flame]

the easiest bow to use

[wispy blade]

also the worst bow by far

[pseudo flame]

no, he said data shows Chiron as people's pick, he recommended Shield(Chaos)

[pseudo flame]

and why is it worst for heat32?

[shy plinth]

It is extremely slow

[pseudo flame]

and? this is not speedrun, right?

[wispy blade]

and bad damage

and unsafe

[shy plinth]

We're running against td3

[wispy blade]

and no aoe

[shy plinth]

I would not expect chiron to consistently hit td3, and yeah it is basically single target exclusive

[wispy blade]

32 is a very easy thing to do with the right pact aspect and build

[shy plinth]

I can't imagine it's really that much harder to use than hera either

[wispy blade]

i did it first try because i had a pact that was only pretty cursed and i used hestia

[shy plinth]

So here's the thing - Haelian didn't compile what's best, he compile what people used

That sample will naturally trend towards aspects people like

There are a larger percentage of chiron clears because a lot of people just jam chiron

[pseudo flame]

asking new people to do TD3 seems already a bit problematic

[shy plinth]

It's 32 heat

[wispy blade]

it’s not bad on aspects which aren’t hot garbage

[shy plinth]

There's going to be a challenge somewhere

[wispy blade]

like chiron

[pseudo flame]

yeah, and as Haelian said, it has a lot of varieties

[shy plinth]

Asking new people to do 32 is already hard and Chiron makes things way slower

[wispy blade]

most players could do td3 with like 5 seconds of practice

[shy plinth]

I think there's fundamentally a pretty big difference between "what's best to do" and "what people have done"

My first 32 clear was an AP1 CP2 gilgamesh

[rugged hinge]

can confirm, i did it easily with unupgraded zeus shield and dio special

[shy plinth]

If I submitted that in the poll, that would not mean that it is the best thing to do

[wispy blade]

yeah

[shy plinth]

It would mean that it was done

[pseudo flame]

isn't that most accurate for people is "what people have done"?

[wispy blade]

yeah but it’s not accurate for what best to do

because what best to do is just use hestia

[shy plinth]

I think there's a pretty big diff between what advice we'd give players asking questions and what we'd say our first clears were, right?

Everyone has super scuffed first 32s

But if people come in here for advice, we give some meta feedback and people come back and say "yo thanks I got it"

[wispy blade]

every time

[shy plinth]

So looking at the poll and saying "most people did chiron so chiron must be best" is not the conclusion I'd draw

The conclusion I'd draw is that chiron is well designed with a really cool power fantasy that makes people want to use it even though it doesn't win as much

It's a rad aspect, it's just not a power outlier

The survey is a reflection of popularity and that's okay

[pseudo flame]

well, that's how poll works, i guess

[shy plinth]

Yeah

And I think it's a cool video

I just wanna be careful about drawing the wrong conclusions

[pseudo flame]

like anime/game, people vote about most popular chars all the time

[shy plinth]

Sure

And if someone wanted to win with chiron, they could. But it would never be what would get recommended in here

[pseudo flame]

and there's always heresy about this char #1 is controversial

[pseudo flame]

so not respecting the popular opinion? well sure

[shy plinth]

I mean if someone felt strongly about playing chiron we could give them advice to do that

[rugged hinge]

all this talk about chiron is making want to use chiron instead of suffering with rama and doing the same thing with hera

[shy plinth]

But it's not ever what I'd recommend if someone said "what should I play to clear 32"

It would be eris or hestia

[wispy blade]

ngl eris lacks the degree of safety hestia has

[shy plinth]

Sure

But it's easy enough to understand where those recs are coming from

[wispy blade]

id just always say hestia

very simple

[shy plinth]

It is

[wispy blade]

u need 1 boon

boom win

[pseudo flame]

or boonless

[shy plinth]

Maybe eris would've been the first rec before the sea storm req nerf

[wispy blade]

or 0 sure

[pseudo flame]

Hestia is still the highest boonless/mirrorless, right?

[wispy blade]

i would go dig up my screenshot but it’s so ancient by now

yea

i did 33

tomato went up to 41

[shy plinth]

Big shackle strats

[wispy blade]

angel did zeus 50

[shy plinth]

Of course she did

[wispy blade]

but it was modded and had ap1

[shy plinth]

Also it's angel so that's kinda cheating

[pseudo flame]

anyway, going off topic, so i wanna ask the main question

what about Shield(Chaos) for heat32 rec?

[wispy blade]

same way retrash is cheating

[sinful zodiac]

hestia is rng, with bp2 and dc shield guy can be a run ender

[pseudo flame]

is he crazy?

[wispy blade]

i’m pretty sure he doesn’t do that

[pseudo flame]

of all the shield, i find Chaos the worst

[wispy blade]

.

[wispy blade]

well yeah obviously

[pseudo flame]

Beo and Zeus, obviously top

Beo's prolly a lot easier to use

[shy plinth]

Chaos is too slow

[wispy blade]

for beginner tier zeus is easier

cause u can just do some noob strat u come up with and it’ll kinda work

[shy plinth]

Yeah like take zeus shield pick zeus boons

[pseudo flame]

i find Zeus might needs better skills to control

[shy plinth]

For higher levels yes, but I mean this is 32 with a shield

[pseudo flame]

not exactly easy to get it done with 32 first clear

[shy plinth]

There might be a bit of a learning curve but I don't think it's that crazy

[wispy blade]

it’s pretty easy

i did 50 first try on it

[rugged hinge]

zeus shield in a nutshell:
zeus
zeus
special
block
zeus
win

[shy plinth]

It's a little fiddly, beo is simpler but the increased damage combined with the melee range is asking a bit

Especially if people take cf2 and don't know a good beo build

It takes a while to scale up

[wispy blade]

ngl the only time i notice the increased damage is when something does a weird amount of damage

like 6 instead of 5 or 11 instead of 10

[pseudo flame]

that's what he said in the video. 10:04

[shy plinth]

You get hit a lot less than first time 32 players

[sinful zodiac]

He said he was wrong

[wispy blade]

watch 8 more seconds

lol

ok the comments are cursed

someone said they swapped fo2 for ri2

society

[pseudo flame]

i can understand that

FO2 is really a pain

[wispy blade]

it’s ri2

[rugged hinge]

its understandable for first time fo players, i died in tart on my first fo attempt(and 32 attempt)

[wispy blade]

people call me crazy for taking ri2 at 50

[sinful zodiac]

Em4 is easier than ri2 tbh

[wispy blade]

ri2 at 32 is obscene

[pseudo flame]

there's no a lot of choice at Heat32 first look

[forest token]

there's a lot of choice for 32 heat

[pseudo flame]

and RI2, u still have double dash and DD

[forest token]

you lose dark foresight, rerolls, thick skin

[wispy blade]

there are literally so many options for 32 heat

[pseudo flame]

so you're still strong at surivialibility, imo that's what people like

[wispy blade]

you lose rolls and DF

that’s awful for consistency

[forest token]

i unironically prefer ap2 than ri1 when i was attempting rama 50

[wispy blade]

i mean

[forest token]

granted it's 50

[wispy blade]

ap2 is just a lock

when ur playing modded 50

no reason not to take it

[forest token]

i mean ri wasn't bad but also it's just a lot less stuff you're getting

[pseudo flame]

5.9% Arthur. Lol this one surprises me a bit

7th popular for first Heat32 clear

[forest token]

i think people just recognize that it's slow so they dont want to use it for 32 where they have to think faster

actually is 5.9 arthur a lot

idr

[wispy blade]

how high is hestia

[pseudo flame]

as i said, surprise me a lot

quite high for a slow weapon

[sinful zodiac]

3rd iirc

[wispy blade]

arthur is popular with new players

[forest token]

hestia is at 9.6%, tied with zag fists

[wispy blade]

wat

[forest token]

zag fist is prob popular beacuse of plume dodge

[wispy blade]

who is using zagfists

i expected that to be like bottom 10

[sinful zodiac]

Plume dodge stack

[forest token]

plume dodge build literally exists

[wispy blade]

half the time i forget it even exists

[forest token]

that's just you

[wispy blade]

yeah but how do you kill things

[forest token]

it's a valid strategy and it's not like an obscure niche build

[sinful zodiac]

Over 50% and you can just face tank dad

[forest token]

not td3

or lucking into a good build

[pseudo flame]

1th Chiron 20.6&
2nd Eris 13.2%
3rd Zag Fist Hestia 9.6%
5th Demeter 8.1%
6th Beo 6.6%
7th Arthur 5.9%
8th Zeus 5.1%

[forest token]

it's not impossible

[wispy blade]

surprised beo is so high

[forest token]

like plume zag fists isn't a bad build if you're given the time or luck

[pseudo flame]

9th Zag Rail Chaos 3.7%

[wispy blade]

fun fact

[sinful zodiac]

I luck into ME when I used that strat for fist 32

[wispy blade]

luci has the best boss splits of all rails

[forest token]

not surprised

[wispy blade]

individually

[wispy blade]

dad tho

and tbh heroes

[forest token]

triple bomb isn't that much less damage than clockets tbf

[wispy blade]

i see the lernie and furies

[forest token]

it's 100 sure but like funny crit lmao

[wispy blade]

but not the heroes and dad

[wispy blade]

yeah but it’s also harder to use and probably harder to hit bott heroes with

although actually easier with a juiced instaphase buuld

[forest token]

i think it's easier to hit luci triple bomb on heroes than clockets

[sinful zodiac]

one more thing about zag plume, you can get rd first hermes boon

[pseudo kernel]

rd and then no hyper sprint

[sinful zodiac]

Less high roll

[wispy blade]

greater recall

[sinful zodiac]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XHMjFvdXwNs&si=-qfOHEq8HUxjInpn

At least the thumbnail is right

[wispy blade]

i think he’s probably called each aspect the strongest at some point in a title

[sinful zodiac]

Tbf, you have to sell your soul to the algorithm to be a youtuber

[wispy blade]

yeah i think he does it cause it’s funny

still hurts my soul when he makes a video THIS is why chaos shield is S TIER!

[forest token]

Chaos is s tier because it's a shield lmao

[forest token]

chaos having a higher heat record than beo sounds about right tbh

might be 61

oh probably not

i haven't heard of any heat records for chaos recently

not that i remember

[pseudo flame]

Chaos shield done in heat61? modded I assume?

[forest token]

yeah

it's just aspect of cshot

played the same as zag shield lmao

[wispy blade]

chaos 61 is zagshield 62

since zagshield has 15% more base damage

[sinful zodiac]

fo2 dad is something else, 413 health with 2 dd

he still beats my ass

[forest token]

sounds about right

fo2 takes a lot of time to adjust

and even if you are adjusted

big pain still lmao

[sinful zodiac]

yeah em4 dad

kek

[forest token]

oh yeah big pain

[bleak grotto]

Busteeeed

[sinful zodiac]

i step on pot during laser

pain

[forest token]

oh yeah that's a classic

[sinful zodiac]

epic greater haste + hyper sprint and common rd

https://imgur.com/a/br4tuQZ

not fast enough

no jolted moment

[forest token]

unfortunate

no he has shockwaves that knock you back

like dad hug was found out a while ago during early access iirc

and devs were like "haha no not anymore" when they added em4

which like fair lmao

[pseudo flame]

i wonder why they didn't change it for normal Hades

[forest token]

i think it's like

not a big deal tbf

[sinful zodiac]

fresh file speedrunner like this one trick

[forest token]

the average casual player isn't gonna figure that out

and even if they do it's not like that abusable

it's also high risk high reward

[forest token]

yeah because it's like their one place of safety with 1 dash lmao

[pseudo flame]

i suppose EM4 matters more that u do not exploit the fight

[forest token]

wieldofrost does a lot of fresh file so i'd assume he'd use it a bit

[pseudo flame]

0

u can check all my fresh file runs, i never use that exploit

[sinful zodiac]

wr igt for fresh file is 10 min, even faster than my pb

damn

[forest token]

oh really

i guess it's not entirely necessary

have you ever considered using it in a run or do you find it too risky

[forest token]

fresh file uses real time, not in game time

[pseudo flame]

i just dun like exploiting game

[forest token]

fair

[sinful zodiac]

yeah i know, but rta is still 17:xx

[pseudo flame]

well, they're fun to watch and have a laugh

[forest token]

yeah nitrostarch grinded that for a long while lmao

[pseudo flame]

but i guess because i'm not speedrunner, so i dun use exploit tactic in games in general

[forest token]

that's fair

do you just never use beo lmao

[austere yarrow]

I don't use exploits either. I'm more of a casual speedrunner.

[pseudo flame]

i think i hear there's exploit for that, but i dunno the detail

[wispy blade]

i do it in anyheat only

[pseudo flame]

what is the bug for Beo?

[forest token]

mirage shot is bugged to deal 100% instead of 30% so it's funny

[wispy blade]

oh boy

[forest token]

among other bugs

but that's the main one

(not exclusive to beo but mostly happens on beo)

tiny flare bug

rare crop bug

[wispy blade]

iframe bug

[forest token]

unfortunately, casual speedrunners also abuse bugs lmao

[forest token]

that's more or less the shield not working but fair

[pseudo flame]

well at the very least, the way i see it, if the weapon is bugged, that's not my problem if I play it as if i exploit it

[forest token]

guess broken shield is a subsection

[wispy blade]

no its beo

[pseudo flame]

but hugging dad in the laser and take no dmg

[wispy blade]

when the flares are popping