GY= guanYu?
#h1-high-heat-strategies
signal geyser
wispy blade
yeah
signal geyser
😅 I’m struggling with that aspect full stop 😂
mossy zinc
"Top levels of high heat" would be 60+ Heat, and I am pretty sure that's not what you're looking for help with. So you might wanna be more specific.
I wouldn't call an aspect that literally resets for one single hammer and then still has to deal with a -50% HP penalty "great for heat". 
wispy blade
i mean i assume we're talking like 32 here
and the -50% is really not that bad until you have to take more pacts
mossy zinc
Yeah, it's pretty good still at 32 since you can just do FO0 and easily run spin builds as well.
So it's not an immediate reset if you don't get Charged Skewer.
wispy blade
and i would simply not torture myself with unmodded past 32
mossy zinc
40s are pretty chill unmodded.
wispy blade
i guess 40 is just 32
oh thats something itneresting to do
maybe i shall engage in allspects 40
signal geyser
What I was looking for advice on what was worth investing my Titan blood in so I can climb the heats.
wispy blade
HESTIA 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪 💪
mossy zinc
What I was looking for advice on what was worth investing my Titan blood in so I...
You can find my aspect leveling guide pinned in #h1-for-new-players. 
signal geyser
Ah I thought I had seen that somewhere. Cheers
mossy zinc
"High Heat" commonly refers to 32+ Heat.
signal geyser
My thinking is. I’m aiming for that, so was wondering what aspects work well around that level of heat
mossy zinc
You can make anything work at 32. I'd suggest that for now you just simply focus on learning builds and getting more practice in.
heady bone
32 is doable with all aspects
but for starting out, Nemesis, Achilles/GY, Beowulf/Zeus, Hera, and Hestia are good
mossy zinc
If you want good practice for high heat, turn on EM2 FO2 TD3 as your default pact and don't turn those off.
signal geyser
Cheers
shy plinth
32 is doable with all aspects
but for starting out, Nemesis, Achilles/GY, Beowul...
You didn't mention Eris!
Which would be my #1
left prism
Eris is so comfy
heady bone
hestia you don't have to worry about specialing every 4s
wispy blade
hestia and eris both trivialise 32
but eris needs more boons than hestia because hestia needs one (1) boon
and im pretty sure eris needs like
2
forest token
lightning strike and jolted lol
mossy zinc
"Worry" is a bit of a stretch. The skill floor is so low.
shy plinth
High floor means better results with lower input
Floor is lowest possible output, ceiling is highest possible
So a low floor would mean hard to use
High floor is the same as low barrier, which means easier to use and a less practiced player will get better results out of it
mossy zinc
Hmmmmm no.
wispy blade
High floor means better results with lower input
i can attest this is also how i and others ive seen use this term
shy plinth
It's how it works in programming
But also I literally never use these terms because this discussion happens 100% of the time
wispy blade
well a floor would be higher input for the same effect
like floor(1.9)=floor(1.2)=1
while a ceil would be lower input for same effect
shy plinth
Those are round down functions but sure
wispy blade
ceil(1.9)=ceil(1.2)=2
wispy blade
Those are round down functions but sure
rounding is different because it doesn't have a generally agreed upon function
shy plinth
Either way, performance floor is the output you get with the lowest possible skill input
What is the worst the aspect can do
wispy blade
zagrail has a higher floor though
shy plinth
If it is good even if the player is unpracticed that is a high floor
shy plinth
Yeah I mean that's a high floor low ceiling
wispy blade
spread fire hard
shy plinth
Because a better player can't really make it that much better
But still, these terms always cause confusion
So I would say that hestia has a low skill barrier
And that's that lol
wispy blade
i have never heard the term skill barrier
hestia is slightly harder than zagrail because you have to use more than 1 input
forest token
i am very confused so i'll just not use these terms
mossy zinc
High floor means better results with lower input
Skill floor is the least amount of skill required for functional performance, as in having at least some kind of clue of what you're doing with it. Skill ceiling is the highest level of skill you can achieve for mastery, beyond which there is no more room for improvement.
Neither says anything about general performance or performance relative to other skills, though. Two aspects can have the same skill floor or ceiling but very different levels of performance. Like if you had Hestia with its current base damage and Hestia 2.0 that does twice as much damage. Same skill floor and ceiling, but very different performance.
shy plinth
"Skill floor" is a misleading term and what you're talking about is "minimum skill"
"Performance floor" is the output of the weapon, which is much more meaningful for answering the question of "what weapon should I choose to be good at without any practice"
Performance ceiling is when you'd start talking about things like zeus where you're talking about the absolute peak of the weapon - this is also where people start talking about "high skill cap"
But floor and ceiling are all about the lowest you can go and highest you can achieve
Here is a visual
"High floor low ceiling" is very well explained when you think of what it would look like - there is a narrow band of performance. You can't do that well but you won't do that poorly. This is just an example for hestia though tbh I think the ceiling is reasonably high for hestia just because the weapon is good, but it doesn't really scale all that well with player skill - a better player vs a worse player will be pretty close
For zeus, the sky's the limit, but if you suck it's gonna be rock bottom performance. And the bottom is also known as the... floor 🙂
wispy blade
what is that hestia graph
shy plinth
Either way, I swear this conversation happens with a 1:1 frequency with the terms coming up because they are ambiguous and often confusing since people mean different things when they're saying them
Just picked hestia as an example but maybe something like zag bow would be better
shy plinth
I dunno the point is that something that is nearly the same in the hands of a new player or an experienced one
You think so?
shy plinth
Maybe like... arthur?
wispy blade
zyru says even he is not playing nearly at the limit of the weapon
yeah arthur is a good one
forest token
new hestia player is reload-shoot
experienced is like, 45 buttons per second
heady bone
shield in general is good for noob and pros alike
forest token
arthur is more reasonable, maybe zag bow
forest token
i mean at the very core of it it's just dash strike into power shot
wispy blade
rama is just dash strike into power shot too
forest token
top end is just knowing when to release early
forest token
rama is just dash strike into power shot too
the charge time makes it a lot harder compared to zag bow
hoary pasture
High heat hestia and anyheat hestia are not the same
shy plinth
Again, just as an example
forest token
https://i.imgur.com/aoQskLw.png
better yeah
shy plinth
The specifics are better left to the weapon experts
I'd do a graph on gilga but it would just be one red line that says "get merciful end"
forest token
lmfao
left prism
Cherry about to talk you about timing maims
heady bone
i wanna see chaos' graph
shy plinth
I have no clue on chaos lol
wispy blade
i mean
left prism
Do you have a graph for zag shield?
shy plinth
But remember the baseline is "how would a brand new player do with this"
left prism
Cuz thats basically the same
wispy blade
brand new player would perform rather poorly on bow
heady bone
a new player would be impressed by chaos
forest token
Do you have a graph for zag shield?
he's just making these up on the fly lmao
shy plinth
Yeah
wispy blade
as i said, i saw someone spamming min charge shots
shy plinth
This was originally for hearthstone lol
I repurposed a pre-existing graph I had because this conversation came up there too
Because it comes up in every game ever
If you google "skill floor ceiling" you will see inf reddit posts with people giving all the definitions they have and them all being different
forest token
i just say stuff like "easy/hard to get into" and "a lot of potential" for aspects lmao
shy plinth
Yeah
forest token
a lot easier and more clear
shy plinth
It's much less confusing
forest token
(also because idk the differences and specifics)
shy plinth
The only reason I even get into floor and ceiling at all is because I think the visual is important
mossy zinc
Performance ceiling is when you'd start talking about things like zeus where you...
People talking about "skill cap" or "skill ceiling" when they mean performance is no different from people misusing theory or strategy or... 
shy plinth
I mean the purpose of all of this is to discuss probable results
It's a specific question that's being answered - well two of them. What should a new player prioritize for immediate results and what should players prioritize for long term results
If someone comes in here and says I want to get good at super high heats and push 60s, nobody would say arthur because there just isn't that much you can do with it past a certain point
Hades is a crazy game and players still find skill expression in many places so I honestly don't even think it's that helpful overall - Magnil getting <10 min high heat merciful end arthur runs shows that anything is possible
https://www.reddit.com/r/OverwatchUniversity/comments/67pv2g/comment/dgscu7z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 here's a good example from an overwatch thread
(You will notice the comments remain contentious because these terms are confusing)
mossy zinc
I can tell you that neither term is used in academic literature anyway.
But I would say that OP is correct and that specific comment you linked confounds skill and performance. But so long as you can communicate clearly, I don't really care too much what definition you're using. Just don't tell me what I mean.
shy plinth
My counter-request would to perhaps not to tell me "No" when I'm explaining things 
mossy zinc
I don't agree with much of that explanation.
shy plinth
I can tell
forest token
just saying "no" isn't very descriptive if you don't explain why lmao
mossy zinc
just saying "no" isn't very descriptive if you don't explain why lmao
I am not obligated to get into a debate just because somebody tells me I am using the wrong term.
I am more interested in this novel I am reading. 
forest token
well it's certainly not helpful
shy plinth
It's fine
mossy zinc
well it's certainly not helpful
Oh no. Telling a friend "no" at 12:40 a.m., one message out of over 100k in the server, was deemed not helpful by Bananas. What will I do.
wispy blade
yada yada hestia zagbow skill floor ceiling i think this conversation has deviated from its relevance
mossy zinc
Somewhat why I had no interest going into a debate there in the first place, yes.
forest token
Oh no. Telling a friend "no" at 12:40 a.m., one message out of over 100k in the ...
go to sleep because it was 12:40 am 
shy plinth
Are you rising or sleeping at 3am
jaunty falcon
hi
mossy zinc
Are you rising or sleeping at 3am
Yes.
shy plinth
Well then
mossy zinc
I would describe my current sleep schedule as inspired by Lady Aphrodite without ADHD meds.
shy plinth
Oh no
knotty berry
I'd do a graph on gilga but it would just be one red line that says "get mercifu...
I got ME before I left tartarus earlier. Was my fastest run yet.
shy plinth
Sounds powerful
knotty berry
Sounds powerful
It was... interesting to say the least. Quite the "Brain dead button spam"
shy plinth
Hey the claw is very clear in what it wants from us and what it will do for us
You give it merciful end and you will receive a button mashy clear
ashen garnet
Ceiling is way easier to climb if you play an aspect you feel comfy with timing-wise and game-mechanic-wise (likewise, playing a non meta aspect and pushing it higher is cool and v satisfying)
knotty berry
I’m doing 16 heat for the first time ever and my weapon is the bow of Chiron. Thoughts?
wispy blade
wdym
shy plinth
Yeah I'm not sure what the question is
knotty berry
I have dio on my special, aphro on my attack, and artemis on my cast. Any thing else i should do?
wispy blade
sure
arty cast might open splitting headache
which you dont want clogging up your low tolerance chances
knotty berry
I beat hades on my second 16 heat attempt with the gilga claws and of course- M.E.
shy plinth
Nice 🙂
cursive solstice
my mind cant wrap around how some of you guys are doing 50+ heat runs with JS + CP + DC all with TD3
forest token
my mind cant wrap around how some of you guys are doing 50+ heat runs with JS + ...
A lot of practice or just abusing Beowulf
Or shield in general
heady bone
true chaos is op
gaunt fiber
my mind cant wrap around how some of you guys are doing 50+ heat runs with JS + ...
Moving with intent, knowing your dps rotation, spawn manipulation
Also pausing when thinking between rooms
If you can save a millisec per room, you take it
valid wharf
td in a nutshell
forest token
@wispy blade what pact, boon start, and hammer would you do for 45 hestia
forest token
oh ignore pact then
wispy blade
hl5 lc4 cf2 js2 em3 cp1 bp2 mm uc fo2 hs ri1 ap2 td3 pl
that's my 50 pact
pretty easy
take off 5 heat frolm it
wispy blade
start with no cp1
and then maybe take off ri?
dark foresight is nice
js1 cf2 kinda necessary
for an easy pact
forest token
hell mode means i have to take cp
wispy blade
well yeah
forest token
it's fine, ap2 should be alright
wispy blade
take off hell mode
forest token
eh i'll be fine
forest token
got an arty door
wispy blade
rarity bonus is good and hestia will do fine with timer
forest token
well i wasn't paying attention
wispy blade
speedrun brain is kinda
forest token
i got hit by a trap right before than spawned in and then died in that room
on the last enemy too
wispy blade
i got hit by a trap right before than spawned in and then died in that room <:bo...
nice
forest token
had 3 good chaos boons through ap2
forest token
assault, flourish, and was about to get strike or something
wispy blade
on ap2?
wispy blade
i guess that's what ri0 affords you
forest token
first one was in early tart
wispy blade
idk i just like
forest token
second and third was start of aspho and ely
wispy blade
trolling
forest token
lmao that's very true
might consider it
i would also like to mention the lvl 5 epic aphro atk
wispy blade
and since it's still cp0 em3
wispy blade
i would also like to mention the lvl 5 epic aphro atk
lmfaoa
this is real pride hours
forest token
was doing 740 to undamaged targets
oh i had a rare lunge
i really just threw a run like that
wispy blade
2nd most juice anyone has ever had on ap2
other than my ri2 ap2 stubborn roots run :croven:
wispy blade
i think if i reset for that for a year i wouldn't get it
wispy blade
yeah hestia gud
wispy blade
hazard is kinda good
eris :croven:
forest token
i'd do that
forest token
if it did 5x more that would mean it would normally do like 1 damage or something
wispy blade
it does 1%
forest token
does it normally do 1 damage
forest token
it only took me until c20 to get an attack boon because i took rare special over common attack at the start lmao
bruh miniboss into eury into foundtain into endshop
wispy blade
it only took me until c20 to get an attack boon because i took rare special over...
lol
are you on ri0
you can probably roll once for rarity
only other thing worth rolling rlly is hermes
forest token
damn rd got ap2ed
wispy blade
damn rd got ap2ed
lmfao trolling
steel sail
ive been thinking about ending off my hades grind at 32, i do want to start moving on after beating 32 with all weapons. Just want to ask what dash is recommended, ive been dealing with ruthless for a while, and starting to feel like it's not cutting it. Stay with it or just have more nice spammy i frames?
gaunt fiber
2 dashes for sure, ruthless is good in extremely limited cases
the mobility granted by 2 dashes and the iframes as you mentionned are just too good to pass
steel sail
whenever i see an option like this that's just impractical but technically leads to more dmg, i always end up thinking, "its free dps if im just good enough." never goes well
gaunt fiber
Yeah, everything is in the "technically". Indeed, one more dash is not only more iframes, it's also mobility (better positioning to kill enemies fast) and also damage since dash strikes are usually what you want in this game
That would be especially true for sword
Some weapon can use one dash (Fist and Shield generally) because they can somewhat adapt to this gameplay but it's very niche
pure wave
high confidence is another one of those
gaunt fiber
Although if you begin with fist you def want to have 2 dashes
gaunt fiber
high confidence is another one of those
this one is good, but not for high heat. It's almost free in any heat
ashen garnet
Ruthless can be p good in spammy heat rooms, but is depending a lot on the aspect/build. It can be particularly good if you are already set on getting +dashes from Hermes and your tart/aspho is clean enough. Although, it requires more practice/game knowledge and intent to proc the bonus
shy plinth
Ruthless is typically only played with gilga
It's not a traditional choice - at 32 you can still get there with it if you want to, but doubling the frequency with which you can dodge is almost always better
And with benefits program 2, there are going to be some enemy combinations where a single dash is not enough regardless of your mechanical skill
We're often playing with td3 too, and simply put, dashing more is faster
heady bone
I've heard ruthless with zeus can work
fresh raven
i need help with 32 heat chairon anything I could do
fresh raven
of course
wispy blade
pom it a lot
forest token
Make sure you have a good pact
fresh raven
kk
wispy blade
pact is probably like
hl5 lc4 cf2 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 td3 and then just take off from that to make 32
fresh raven
cool thanks
forest token
No fo2
wispy blade
fo
yeah
hl5 lc4 cf2 em3 bp2 mm uc td3
fine pact
run stubborn defiance if you weren't already
forest token
@wispy blade to uninstall the mods you just delete the mod folder then run modimporter right
wispy blade
easier is to just rename the folder
forest token
I wanna try some unmodded high heat
forest token
easier is to just rename the folder
Rename then run modimporter?
wispy blade
so u can keep hyper and 1.3.0 in the thing without moving them around
forest token
Aight
I don't have hyper tho so whatever lmao
Renaming does sound a lot easier tho
wispy blade
also you just dont have to find the 1.3.0 when you wanna reinstall
forest token
True
My unmodded save literally only has a sub10 and 32 heat cleared on beo
Might have a sub 9 but doubtful
forest token
I plan to get 50 on unmodded at least lol
Idk about sub7 since resetting for beo cshot sounds miserable
And I'm not remotely good with anything else
wispy blade
sub7 hestia
forest token
I barely got sub8 modded on that lmao no thanks
solemn copper
what weapon aspects are best for high heat?
wispy blade
uh
like
beo
zeus
rama
hestia
eris
generally just all the shields
zagbow
yeah
those are the big heat players
heady bone
hint: it's not a frisbee
half heart
Nemesis sword is also good choice for high heat
forest token
@half heart calisthenics program jacks up your time a lot and also gives bosses a ton more hp
cp1 makes dad fight have 2.5k more hp (per phase?)
half heart
How much is base em4 dad hp?
forest token
uh
5k per phase, so 10k at least
then phase 3 isn't full hp
so like
idk a couple thousand more hp lol
oh wait
base hp
no clue lol
half heart
Wait, 15% from 5k is not 2.5
forest token
but i remember other high heat players saying cp2 gives 5k per phase
half heart
It's more likely 750
forest token
Wait, 15% from 5k is not 2.5
it's additional
it's 5k more hp
2.5k hp each phase per cp level
according to the wiki, hades has 17k hp
per health bar
half heart
Is this 17k per phase?
half heart
Then yes, math is working
forest token
do keep in mind that cp affects the whole run too and other bosses lol
it just takes a lot more time and isn't worth the 1 heat
half heart
Exactly plus 2550 per pact
forest token
and is inherently more dangerous because longer fights -> more room for error
even if you are a good player, it's still not good
esp when like
hard labor exists for also 1 heat lol
and is near inconsequential
half heart
So far with strong builds I haven't had much issue with cath program
forest token
i mean yeah with good builds it's not that big of an issue
but that doesn't make it any less bad of a pact
half heart
But I can see in like 40-50 heat and higher it will be a huge pain
forest token
also even with a good build you can still screw up lol
it's kinda similar to hs
yeah most of the time you dont step in traps
but when you do, you just die
most of the time (if you're not running ap and/or ri) you'll have a good build and cp1-2 wont be an issue
but you're giving yourself more room for mistakes
half heart
That's why I don't use hs - 150 dmg in fight with daddy taught me to avoid it 😆
forest token
also considering the person beat 32 heat for the first time, taking cp2 is def not the right play lol
like yeah good players and good builds can get around cp, but also could just not take it ever until you have no choice lol
half heart
So far I do 32 heat with cp1 and em4, so maybe that's why I got strange habits
forest token
that doesn't sound like a good time lol
em4 is generally avoided until like 50+ lmao
but if you like the challenge then that's fine for 32
half heart
I mean if all bosses are buffed why not dad too? 🤔
Also that forces you to play well 🙂
forest token
because it's too much effort to learn the fight lmao
hoary pasture
EM4 gets too much hate at low heat
No wonder very few are good at it at high heat. Most people get discouraged before they even try it
gaunt fiber
^
shy plinth
To be fair, for people coming in here saying "what do I do for a first time 32" then EM4 should not be on the list
But if people want to do it when they're pushing multiples, hey sure why not
It's harder but it's not insurmountable
forest token
most people come in for the number, not how they get the number lol
i've been wanting to learn em4 so i can go higher, but i never have the time to actually learn it
shy plinth
I think also the biggest thing for me is that it puts a ton of pressure at the very very end of the run
Makes the game feel a lot more grindy since you have to do a full run to get there - on PC you can make practice saves at least
But it feels so much more tense and uncertain to learn because I have to have everything else fall into place and then get the reps in on the big guy
gaunt fiber
I think also the biggest thing for me is that it puts a ton of pressure at the v...
Yes but it also means you're running 28 heat before Dad
28 heat comfy
shy plinth
Sure, we get some of that difficulty refunded
bitter stone
Em4 with SD sounds terrifying
I've done it a bunch at like low heat with DD and I always go in expecting to lose 1 or 2.
If newer players just want to do em4 they should just do just em4 or add another 5 heat and just go with that.
forest token
if they want to do em4 maybe take off lc4 and just dont die in the other rooms i guess lmao
or actually take off hard labor because em4 hl5 does not sound like a good time
shy plinth
If newer players just want to do em4 they should just do just em4 or add another...
I'm assuming that we're looking for a 32 pact or above here given the channel, sure if people just wanna try em4 then go try em4
But yeah I think the way I would go is removing HL
SD is fine, just stack athena boons
With my usual 32 pact I could go HL0 and then either BP1 or FO1
Sounds kinda nice
idle hound
I can't wait for the exploration process we'll have here once Hades2 releases its heat equivalent
gaunt fiber
I agree so much. Each iteration of the pact is better than this previous one
lost hull
#h1-victory-boasting message
@distant pelican I don't like doing LC4 and I prefer playing without CF because I want to end with as many boons as possible to get them all at 32 heat
so I do HL3 and LC2 because I like it on most aspects and sometimes I switch to DC2
distant pelican
why dont you just do hl5
lost hull
I struggle with bosses more than regular rooms, I usually have enough HP when I get there so more HL would make it harder imo
distant pelican
i feel like an extra 40% of damage on top of already 160% would be less impactful than halving healing
shy plinth
Yeah this pact feels like you're setting yourself up for trouble
FO2 and HL are a difficult combo
distant pelican
true
shy plinth
I might do God's Pride over legacy and then drop HL to 1 and increase LC to 4
That's the pact I usually use
lost hull
LC4 is hard 
shy plinth
You'd have to switch to SD of course
With SD? It makes your rooms a lot easier, just means you have to practice the bosses more
I had the same struggle when I swapped over, I was so used to facetanking heroes and dad
Still, it looks like this pact is working for you overall so keep doing it if you wanna keep doing 32s
If you wanna go further LC4 will be necessary
lost hull
Tbh I can clear 32 heat somewhat consistently atm so I'll probably do that when upping to 40, but for now I prefer going that way for my challenge
shy plinth
Yeah you have 32 on everything so it's not like you need the help
LC4 is the next thing to learn on your heat journey is all
lost hull
For some reason I really struggle with Rama though (I need it to get Repulse shot at 32 heat)
I had a few good runs but TD killed me
And getting Winged serpent with Guan yu will be hell too 
distant pelican
what
shy plinth
Um
gaunt fiber
For some reason I really struggle with Rama though (I need it to get Repulse sho...
I can assure you that you don't even want to see Repulse shot LOL
shy plinth
HL5 is way easier than FO for most players I think
Yeah if you're leaning on repulse shot I would... adjust how you play Rama
Lots of great videos on the leaderboard
I learned how to Rama by watching Tail vods
distant pelican
i just think that rama would be easier to learn on fo0
shy plinth
Most things are easier to learn on fo0
distant pelican
weird that they died to td tho
shy plinth
When I didn't understand rama I died to TD too
I played it like Chiron when I was supposed to play it like Eris
lost hull
I can assure you that you don't even want to see Repulse shot LOL
I want to clear 32 heat with every keepsake, hammer and boon 👀
gaunt fiber
Oh ok!
shy plinth
Ah that makes more sense lol
First time I've ever heard of anyone chasing repulse shot
distant pelican
ive never picked it up
over 400 runs in and i still havent used some duos, legendaries and hammers
lost hull
Not even for prophecies?
distant pelican
nope
didn't feel like doing a whole run using boons i don't like
might go for it one day
bitter stone
Winged serpent is better than repulse shot tbh
At least it can like bounce off of a wall and hit a crowd twice
Repulse shot is tdash at home
Rama used to have good hammers too. One of them was the ricochet effect it has innately now iirc.
They scrapped them all but the awful one.
shy plinth
The unique hammers are pretty rough though the regular bow hammers are nutty
Point blank, twin, triple, and perfect are all great
And chain is very strong if your aim is super precise, but it's so tricky to work with since the hitbox shrinks
forest token
ngl a lot of the unique hammers are kinda eh
wispy blade
damage that beo does in like a quarter volley
forest token
lmao
on the other hand
if you have explosive and rending, you dont have breaching lol
wispy blade
yeah idk why they added that feels unbalanced
shy plinth
Also for actual unique hammers I'm p sure cshot is the best one outside of maybe luci
Feels like every hammer is good on luci
forest token
before unmodded, i used to think that dedge was just the only good hammer for sword and it wasn't that important
and then i went through the pain of not one shoting tart witches with a dstrike
wispy blade
Also for actual unique hammers I'm p sure cshot is the best one outside of maybe...
cshot unique hammer (real)
wispy blade
before unmodded, i used to think that dedge was just the only good hammer for sw...
aphrodite start:
forest token
yeah i realized that later
but oh well
i got the sub10
not touching sword again
until 32 heat
honest kernel
I finally beat 32 heat today... Holy heck
shy plinth
Hey grats!
bitter stone
Yeah rending is fine. I see it as specifically a dash boon hammer.
A run and gun sort of style
And yeah best paired with explosive
It will never be meta but it does open up some synergies at least, like with Rupture or something
forest token
rending is prob one of the better picks for gilga hammers
breaching, explosive, idk what else lmao
heady bone
yeah it's my go to, above breaching even
forest token
maybe colossus knuckle has a case because standing strikes are useful
but other than that rending is fine
assuming that you actually use maim lol
heady bone
i mean i try to hit more than 1 enemy in normal rooms with a strike
but i dont waste my time
lost hull
Winged serpent is better than repulse shot tbh
The real issue is guan yu's HP reduction
Imo it's the hardest aspect to do at 32 heat because of that
hexed sapphire
you have plenty of time to get stacked since gy charged skewer 1 or 2 taps every single tart + aspho enemy
its probably one of the best weapons for pushing heat
given you get charged skewer
forest token
How good is guan Yu if you don't get charged skewer
left prism
For me it feels like it falls off a cliff as soon you leave tart
But im not a gy expert soo
forest token
I mainly wanna get 32 heat on spear as easily as possible and guan Yu sounds doable
forest token
Ew
bitter stone
True. GY is just hard as soon as you make the game hard.
Even charged skewer can be kinda slow
shy plinth
If you get it going and have a halfway decent special it's quite strong, you just have to know what you're doing with it
bitter stone
Like sure it does the damage, but it's no twin shot.
shy plinth
I don't but there are some guan yu pros that def do
bitter stone
Yeah for sure
shy plinth
It has pretty good output
bitter stone
Just special only has to handle armor and even DC
shy plinth
Well you don't have to do pure special only
bitter stone
You dont need DC but it's still an issue at high heat
For sure
Just then you have other factors too you need to build for. Sometimes you dont need an attack on GY
If you're running attack + special thats another boon you need
wispy blade
Just special only has to handle armor and even DC
you could say this about hestia
wispy blade
If you're running attack + special thats another boon you need
you could also say this about hestia
shy plinth
bitter stone
I do tbf but I've mostly done higher heat on Rama.
wispy blade
gy definitely has to have above 55
bitter stone
Which just handles DC passively
shy plinth
This is the current unmodded submitted wr, though also it is a retrash vid so normal rules don't apply
bitter stone
Thanls
shy plinth
Yeah
wispy blade
ya angel 58
forest token
This is the current unmodded submitted wr, though also it is a retrash vid so no...
lmfao "the wr is 55 but it's retrash so realistically it's probably lower"
shy plinth
I do not hold people to the Em4 ap2 standard lolol
Under 17 minutes too, very nice run - skewer and quick spin
bitter stone
Fair
shy plinth
Sure
wispy blade
how do you not do ap2
bitter stone
Yeah lol
wispy blade
idk at the very least 56 has gotta take both right?
shy plinth
I think the first high 50 runs skipped super dad
wispy blade
unless you do ri3
bitter stone
Good GY builds really can have some okay survivability. Not at that high of heat though lol
wispy blade
this is 58 rn
forest token
how do you not do ap2
ri
wispy blade
with dc0
shy plinth
But yeah she does Em4 ap2 RI2 dc0
wispy blade
so yeah
shy plinth
Makes sense
wispy blade
but i mean
shy plinth
Probs same pact you'd use for hestia
wispy blade
yeah
shy plinth
Same idea right
bitter stone
Yeah
shy plinth
Faster reloads
forest token
more aoe
heady bone
a dash attack
hexed sapphire
i got to super dad on 60 gy and then died instantly
wispy blade
🫡
solemn pulsar
Legend has it his copy of hades has em4 turned on by default and you can’t turn it off
wispy blade
every copy of the pact of punishment is personalized
forest token
lmfao
i dont even remember what i used my nectar on
i got ME but not ddash in styx
left prism
dash strike and dash upper in one dash time
forest token
yeah ik but i'm bad at that
it's fine
explupper is based
just got epic tdash so this is less miserable
wispy blade
but like
i feel like hl5 lc4 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 td3 would be 32
not 36
why is it 36
left prism
high heat brain rot
forest token
i feel like hl5 lc4 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 td3 would be 32
32 pacts are either fo2 or hl5 cf2
wispy blade
just take all of them like my first 32 pact
wanton plover
whats the best spear for boonless 40+ heat
forest token
Guan Yu as long as you get charged skewer
It's probably the only viable boonless spear in general tbh
Achilles could work but damage would fall off in ely
Would also depend on specifics of boonless
hexed sapphire
32 pacts are either fo2 *or* hl5 cf2
js3 td2 instead of td3 tbh
forest token
true
wispy blade
js3 td2 instead of td3 tbh
32 pact real
ashen garnet
Recommending td2 boonless for 40 as well (helps a ton for non-meta aspects)
wanton plover
on em4 the sneak/butterfly ball/big crystal eat my acorn too fast. what are the popular alternatives? just tooth? ive been trying megs earring but i really just want a defensive option
maybe i can try the patroclus keepsake too actually
forest token
Tooth yeah
Or keep acorn and pray for good summons lol
Maybe spear point? But I could be wrong on that one
quartz mantle
Tooth and spear point are popular choices, spear point mainly for when you have a large hp pool and patty buff to work w/
wanton plover
well narts. kinda a shame bc i otherwise feel pretty comfortable with the fight aside from the adds
scarlet coyote
meg the adds
wispy blade
how do you even aim that
left prism
Vibes
I just meg when the most annoying summon is on screen
And if both i just wait till they tp if necessary
wispy blade
dont play em4 🧠
left prism
True
hexed sapphire
how do you even aim that
its like MM bombers
you make it up and if it works it works
wispy blade
yolo it ?
solemn pulsar
i dont think megging the adds is super important since they're armored anyway, just saving the meg so speed up the most chaotic phase of the fight is good. hitting hades is most important imo
ruby minnow
what do all these hd2 and em4 and j72 things mean
heady bone
pinned
gaunt fiber
Can't imagine js72
shy plinth
Grand jury summons
forest token
Infinite unamored tart witches
shy plinth
How many brightswords would that be
JK imagine making it to elysium
You'd have to get past the field of dracons
forest token
Oh god the drakons
heady bone
like 57 brightswords per wave
forest token
I'm pretty sure there's a limit per wave
It'll just be like endless waves
Probably
Idk what I'd prefer lmao
On one hand 57 per wave is easy beo clean up
On the other hand, my laptop will explode
shy plinth
Don't try it on switch
heady bone
just download more ram
forest token
Don't try it on switch
Lmfao diy note7
left prism
Don't try it on switch
The flame wheels in question:
heady bone
four minutes of Clanging
solemn pulsar
I'm pretty sure there's a limit per wave
i dont think there's a limit per wave just a limit on screen at once, so the waves are stretched out
when i rando'd enemies and got tart witches in elysium the rooms just took..... a while
forest token
Oh that sounds horrible lmao
solemn pulsar
not as horrible as poison enemies spawning outside of styx where there are no pools to cure it
wispy blade
how do u in tart deal with spread out ass witches on zeus (ri3)
forest token
Pray to god spawn manips work I guess
Or reset
Also why ri3
That's single dash isn't it
wispy blade
yeah
pseudo kernel
how do u in tart deal with spread out ass witches on zeus (ri3)
kill them
heady bone
wall slam prob
wispy blade
it is tart
pseudo kernel
bigger number = better person
wispy blade
Can't you just do 55 for hotw lmao
i just wanna do
forest token
bigger number = better person
What about speedrunners
forest token
i just wanna do
Fair enough
wispy blade
What about speedrunners
bigger time left on tight deadline if it was there
and yeah i don’t wanna learn super dad
or
i'd learn super dad
but
i don't want to
a. allot like 7 minutes at the end of the run to superdad
b. die a large number of times after like 20 minutes to superdad
wispy blade
also i don't wanna see a bball on the screen for more than about 10 second
also after playing zeus sneak is literally the worst thing ever why is that in the game
heady bone
bigger time left on tight deadline if it was there
"if"
forest token
Just don't get a survival room anyways so you can take td
hexed sapphire
a. allot like 7 minutes at the end of the run to superdad
zeus doesn't need 7 minutes on superdad
hexed sapphire
also i don't wanna see a bball on the screen for more than about 10 second
block
wispy blade
zeus doesn't need 7 minutes on superdad
how long
hexed sapphire
play cshot and use 4:30
wispy blade
hexed sapphire
em4 isnt insanely cringe without cp2 NGL
hexed sapphire
RI3 vs EM4 ur choice
hexed sapphire
If you don't get a good 2nd hammer consider the run over
hexed sapphire
twin
hexed sapphire
if ur second hammer is crap then ur run is dead
wispy blade
do you need like point blank perfect
hexed sapphire
how do u in tart deal with spread out ass witches on zeus (ri3)
explosive return 1 shots
wispy blade
how
hexed sapphire
Are you still thinking about RI3
hexed sapphire
Beo past 55 is actually god awful
wispy blade
why cant the first 3 mirror options just be +dashes +SD +dark foresight
who put vitality in there
forest token
just dont take lc4 duh
wispy blade
Beo past 55 is actually god awful
cant you do 59 with like ri2 dc1 and use the infinite damage glitch to bypass cp2
scarlet coyote
the WHAT
wispy blade
the infinite damage glitch
forest token
Hey guys did you know 55 heat Zeus is difficult if you forget how to play zeus
half heart
I do not know about any dmg glitch
forest token
I'm pretty sure she just means "haha beo stronk"
Beo doing beo things and not caring how much hp they have
coarse acorn
so, i think my main problem is taht i use my dash liked a maniac
so how are you supposed to use it?
waxen relic
so how are you supposed to use it?
There's 3 things dashing does:
- moving through the map, which is necessary all the time, though you can learn from speedrunners not waste time going back and forth
- attacking, especially with tidal dash you can do a lot of damage and sometimes even wallslam, or group enemies up. With divine dash there's a lot of attacks, not just missiles that can be reflected. Also the boons on your dash are generally good to strip damage control.
- dodging. Until there's an input for a dash-attack you can't get hit.
Tldr just "use" the dashes. But still dash a lot. Like close to cooldown.
coarse acorn
i dash alot, i just never dodge. when i try to focus on dodging, i die
waxen relic
Try out how late YOU can dash away from specific enemies/attacks and practice it! If you can get a feeling for it that'll help a lot.
Watching some runs on the pinned high-heat spreadsheet can help too. Maybe don't start looking at the World Records right away tho.
median temple
As a crutch you can also start by using both of your dashes to dodge things - assuming you're not playing something too hard yet like H40+
I mostly play H32 and even after hundreds of hours I still use both my dashes to dodge 1 hades spin because I don't want to hard learn the timing
for example
good timing contingency - once you get better then dodge things with 1 dash
waxen relic
You don't really need to split your dashes even at 45 heat IMO. Though it's useful ofc it's more important not to miss your timing.
heady bone
you can dodge towards an attack right
median temple
yeah fair enough. (but my damage maximization! :p)
yeah you can iframe straight through attacks
still gotta watch out for lingering attacks/hitboxes though
some of those will outlast your iframes
waxen relic
You're straight up unhittable until you've input an attack or if you wait too long.
median temple
IE lernie and hydra head stomps
coarse acorn
And today on TheGhost learns basic gameplay ideas while trying to get better: maybe play around the boss patterns instead of charging in all the time
coarse acorn
I decided to a beo 32 run for my 400th escape attempt, and I got to dad phase 2
median temple
but how are you supposed to max damage if you aren't attacking all the time
heady bone
dash damage
ornate coyote
And today on TheGhost learns basic gameplay ideas while trying to get better: ma...
Same! I get so impatient!
wanton plover
any tips for zoos shield? i feel like i focus so much on manipulating it that i end up getting hit unnecessarily. i mostly run around while it chases me and zaps enemies but i feel like i could be doing better?
ornate coyote
An offensive dash, like Tidal, may be your best bet in that case.
wispy blade
any tips for zoos shield? i feel like i focus so much on manipulating it that i ...
what heat
wispy blade
i mean like
wispy blade
It's fine
well ofc it is
but at 50 heat i'd assume you're better off just doing an aspect you're initially comfortable with
zeus has a big learning curve
and 50 heat isn't that hard
so you can kinda just ride with your fav decent aspect
heady bone
im not big on dc
heady bone
so i was hesitant for beo
wispy blade
hl5 lc4 cf2 js2 em3 cp1 bp2 mm uc fo2 hs ri1 ap2 td3 pl
which is a fine 50 pact
that beo can def deal with
well
my only 50 pact
i've decided not to torture myself with heat
heady bone
ri1? i could probably work with that actually
wispy blade
other than my 50 heat chiron attempts on hl5 lc4 cf2 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 ri2 ap2 td3
heady bone
wait ap2? bruh
heady bone
ig
hexed sapphire
Bull rush gives full iframes
And shield basic attack kbs
So it’s important to group enemies together so u maximize ur special damage
forest token
50 heat kinda hard
clear dragon
(Whats considered high heat? My fist runs are around heat 18-19)
heady bone
32
clear dragon
(Got it)
fiery dew
other than my 50 heat chiron attempts on hl5 lc4 cf2 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 ri2 ap2 t...
bro i dont understand this teminology lol
wispy blade
check pins
fiery dew
check pins
so hestia rail is the way to go?
wispy blade
so hestia rail is the way to go?
i mean i am fond of it and it makes heat pretyt easy
but a lo tof things work
forest token
reload and shoot, repeat
each time you manually reload, the next shot does 150 damage
forest token
i dont want to reload after each shot
what if they get one shot
fiery dew
i mean i am fond of it and it makes heat pretyt easy
what is the hestia rail build you run?
forest token
also @wispy blade would you rec tdash start for hestia or no at 32 heat
wispy blade
depends on your pact probably but i'd just go aph atk
forest token
aight
wispy blade
much simpler
fiery dew
aphena attack or aphrodite?
wispy blade
aphena.....
fiery dew
my bad xd
forest token
either one tbh, but if you want to do athena, it has to be epic rarity
wispy blade
yea
forest token
athena start means easier DD cheese, aphro start means more damage
fiery dew
but hestia is good for high heat right?
what level should it be before i start using it?
wispy blade
at least 3
wispy blade
eh
forest token
3 is doable ofc
forest token
but hestia isn't really fast at boss fights
fiery dew
any other aspects good for high heat?
fiery dew
what about hera and chiron bow?
wispy blade
no
forest token
hera is fine
wispy blade
neither of those r that good at heat
wispy blade
hera infinite damage glitch still exists
fiery dew
any fist aspecs good for high heat
scarlet coyote
chiron is fine assuming your definition of high heat is 2
forest token
any fist aspecs good for high heat
demeter or zag
well
they're not as good as other aspects
but best out of fists
wispy blade
"""""good"""""
fiery dew
wait so what aspects are actually good for high heat
forest token
aight back to making my guide
wispy blade
eh
zeus gud at hiiiigh heat
low high heat its whatever
still good but better options
scarlet coyote
32 isn't just mid heat at this point?
i thought high was 45+
tbh
its not the best for 32
imo beo is really free 32
wispy blade
32 is high
scarlet coyote
its a shield but its also beo
wispy blade
because we dont want people clogigng something or whatever idek
scarlet coyote
i really like beo for 32 acc
since its just really the exact same playstyle as normal + lc4 gaming
forest token
because we dont want people clogigng something or whatever idek
it's more like because referring to 32 heat as "mid heat" rather than "high heat" is lowkey gatekeeping lmao
scarlet coyote
its the beginning of high heat
scarlet coyote
high (32) higher (40-50) highest (55+)
that doesnt fit in a range
i dont care
btw ive only beatedn 32 since i am not good at heat lol so thats how i see it
fiery dew
hey guys what pacts should i have on for 16 and 32 heat, also should i skip from 12 heat straight to 32 heat or work my way up?
left prism
Check pins for pacts and for 2nd can work your way up but not in increments of one
fiery dew
for example?
forest token
don't just jump frolm 12 to 32
i mean
wispy blade
idk you can go to 25 pretty easily like 20 -> 25
forest token
you can lmao
left prism
Just take some of the more common pacts used at that high and see how much it gets you ig
wispy blade
just do 20 first
and then something between 20 and 32
thats pretty much good enough
left prism
I wonder what's the biggest jump to 32 heat someone has done
fiery dew
if i go straight from 12 to 16 heat do i still get the skelly statue for doing 16 heat or not
left prism
Yeah
fiery dew
even though it should be a 13 heat run?
wispy blade
no it's 16
forest token
I wonder what's the biggest jump to 32 heat someone has done
matty did 8 to 32, haven't heard anything higher than that
for first 32 anyways
fiery dew
yeah i mean if i havnt worked my way up to sixteen heat and i skip from 12 to 16 do i still ge the skelly stature
wispy blade
can someone explain the bounties im in a nemesis run thaat will definitley go somewhere
forest token
yeah i mean if i havnt worked my way up to sixteen heat and i skip from 12 to 16...
the skelly statue only cares about the number
left prism
even though it should be a 13 heat run?
Bounties dont have anything to do with skelly statue
wispy blade
ok i reset
forest token
yeah it def went somewhere
fiery dew
what are bounties?
left prism
The rewards for killing bosses the first time
I swear the game calls them bounties in the heat menu but maybe im crazy
wispy blade
it does iirc