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#h1-high-heat-strategies
shy plinth
jaunty falcon
Lmao why is that emoji called โspeak no evilโ
haughty sky
๐
pseudo kernel
๐
light sedge
This hit me for 100 while the animation is still winding up, feels FO2 man https://imgur.com/a/TwfgQOL
mossy zinc
This hit me for 100 while the animation is still winding up, feels FO2 man https...
Wow, they put in easter eggs to hint that Hades 2 will be about time and we never noticed.
bronze rapids
Is his hand just not holding the spear lol 
forest token
since the flare pops gets rid of your iframes, if you have ddash can you kinda get the iframes back from your dashes or are you still screwed
forest token
Yeah that's what I thought but I never really tried it
Could probably test this in em3 and just dash into the beyblade while the flares are popping lol
marsh shore
ddash doesn't give you iframes
The normal dash alr gives you i frames
idle hound
yeah im bailing on 40
i never got close to that first run, way beyond my fun threshold
hoary pasture
Go a bit lower
idle hound
I'm gonna stay in this peculiar comfort zone for now
I know now i can beat it, but now i want to meme it
Proposals?
cosmic olive
Do you think that I should focus on one weapon (and aspect?) to augment heat or try playing many things differents?
hoary pasture
Do you think that I should focus on one weapon (and aspect?) to augment heat or ...
It's up to you really, when sticking with a single weapon you'll get more experience with that and you'll learn to better optimize it and improvise when runs don't go too well. But a portion of that experience is transferrable when you switch to a different weapon.
It also depends on how high you attempt to push. If you do a couple of 50 heat attempts and swap weapons over and over you probably wont get great results.
cosmic olive
I'm at 10, don't feel like i'm playing good krkr
And I dunno how to improvise. I think it's a begginner question but should I take a god item every time at the first stage?
marsh shore
that's generally what people do
cosmic olive
I hesite with the pinned butterfly
hoary pasture
I hesite with the pinned butterfly
It's not very strong, and as you climb up in heat, some modifiers will make it much tougher to no hit rooms. You're also forced to keep it equipped otherwise you lose the damage boost. So that gates from having control over your build and also from using Defensive keepsakes in the later biomes.
The pacts you choose can start making a difference aswell, some are much worse than others, so I suggest you look at the pinned progression chart in this channel as it is a great starting point to build up to 32.
forest token
The normal dash alr gives you i frames
There's a bug on beo where that when the flares are popping, you lose the iframes
I was wondering if you can sorta "fix" that problem by getting ddash
Since ddash doesn't give you iframes
quartz mantle
I feel like calling that a "bug" is a bit disingenuous
The game is pretty consistent with how it handles i-frames, which is that if you're attacking you don't get them
mossy zinc
I think it's very possible that one's a bug. But ultimately speculation.
forest token
By that logic wouldn't meme beams also remove your iframes because it's constantly attacking
mossy zinc
Like Hera is fine isn't it
Did anyone try that with Trippy Flare on Hera, come to think of it?
forest token
I would've assumed so because it's also a flare but I have no proof
I'll try it out if I can later
And record
Not sure what would be the best way to test this tho
When pom bug was discovered people probably tried it on trippy Hera and saw that it was beo only
hoary pasture
Like Hera is fine isn't it
Hera casts come out much faster than Beowulf
mossy zinc
Not sure what would be the best way to test this tho
I think @solemn pulsar used the dev console to confirm no i-frames on Beowulf. You could see when the invulnerability state was active and inactive. Or maybe it was Delta Chamber. Or both.
wispy blade
is the heat leaderboard for boonless/mirrorless unmodded
mossy zinc
Yes.
Well.
Any mods that have no effect on the run itself are leaderboard legal.
That means accessibility mods, cosmetic mods, quick reset etc. are leaderboard legal.
wispy blade
nuts
wispy blade
good god
it's been so long since i've been barged i didnt even know what the mm for it was
shy plinth
All you gotta do is wait for the encounter to start and it'll become crystal clear
shy plinth
wispy blade
mass savior room and i had to take swift strike earlier
do you not need a call for second wind
or quick favor
left prism
You do
left prism
Smair also doesnt list the specific need for a call but you still need one
wispy blade
oh
ok
so i wont sell my call
are you kidding me
curse of agony blade dash urge to kill
that run was going awesome too
200 hp in aspho
mossy zinc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12i4n92aJAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68...
Ty ty! Did you ever test if the beo cast i frames oh no also applies to Trippy Flare on Hera? I don't recall anyone testing that specifically.
solemn pulsar
Ty ty! Did you ever test if the *beo cast i frames oh no* also applies to Trippy...
I did not. Honestly my secret thoughts are that this applies on like all casts at some point but the "deploy" window is larger on the flares, and beo itself staggers multicasts over a longer period of time so there's longer effective vulnerability so it's noticeable, especially because you're often dashing after a rush finishes. Whereas hera you're rarely able to get in motion by the time the casts stop firing because they come out so fast
but that's just theorizing, no testing done
mossy zinc
Ty ty.
mossy zinc
You're gonna make somebody time out because they made the mistake of pressing Call when they had Ares' Aid. 
severe wedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054474976083849236/1071203247156625438/i...
getting quick favor offered when u dont even have a call boon ๐ฉ
mossy zinc
Are you still trying to do boonless mirrorless?
mossy zinc
What's your pact?
wispy blade
other than when i get absolutely stuffed on a boon option
uh
let me check
hl1 em3 bp2 mm uc fo1 ri4 td3
are we not allowed to take ri
forest token
Why not take fo2
wispy blade
i think ill exchange em3 for fo2
forest token
Oh no mirror can suck with fo2 I guess
wispy blade
i didnt take fo2 because of em3
forest token
Maybe hl4 lol
wispy blade
i'd rather cf2 and some js or something than put that hl too far
forest token
Fair
mossy zinc
are we not allowed to take ri
Nah, RI4 is definitely allowed.
forest token
8 free heat lol
wispy blade
Nah, RI4 is definitely allowed.
are we allowed to benefit from keys/rolls
mossy zinc
Yeah.
wispy blade
cool
mossy zinc
I think it's fun.
wispy blade
you're a god gamer though
mossy zinc
Me and Wriste13 pushed each other to grind single dash Zag Fists vs Maxy back then.
With a pretty weak build.
That's my practice save file he was playing on.
wispy blade
the play button used to be blue on hover???
mossy zinc
What's it now? I never pay attention lol.
mossy zinc
Little tip: if you're running circles around him, his jab can never actually hit you.
daring osprey
what are you attempting?
mossy zinc
Boonless mirrorless 32 Heat.
wispy blade
33
daring osprey
good luck
wispy blade
including 2 resets from awful boon choices
both were ares
that pissrag looooooves offering me blade dash and doom attack
daring osprey
Boonless mirrorless 32 Heat.
are fated rerolls gained from key rooms banned?
mossy zinc
No.
daring osprey
aight thats good to know
mossy zinc
I recommend Persuasion over Authority for it, personally.
wispy blade
I thinkt hat is a better idea
because while you might get one or two less boons in the run
if you get stuffed on doom attack urge to kill and blade dash
mossy zinc
One reroll for the Well before Elysium goes a long way.
wispy blade
you might get a chance to not get that
mossy zinc
Since you'll have plenty of money.
Also being able to reroll if you don't find healing and need it.
It's more than just rolling out of bad boon offers.
Well items are the only way to get any bonus damage.
daring osprey
hammers can give a bit of bonus damge too
forest token
You're guaranteed 2 hammers per run anyways
mossy zinc
Yeah, but not much control over those.
severe wedge
I kinda stopped playing Hades but I cant stop thinking about 50x6, I really wanna try to do it
wispy blade
fists
severe wedge
idk tho, it takes so much effort, it took so long for me to get just one 50 heat win
wispy blade
just do 6 hestia 50 runs
severe wedge
no i mean 50 on every weapon once
wispy blade
i know
mossy zinc
just do 6 hestia 50 runs
Poseistia, Charged-Skestia, Beostia, Bowstia, [insert funny Malphon meme], Hestia.
That's 6.
daring osprey
do i have to submit a video to prove that i didnt use the 1 boon i couldnt purge?(common unleveled 1 zeus cast)
mossy zinc
Oh yeah, Gilgamesh Tidal Dash start is something in common with Hestia.
So there's that.
mossy zinc
do i have to submit a video to prove that i didnt use the 1 boon i couldnt purge...
Videos are generally required for the leaderboard as proof. Runs without a video and only a screenshot will be filtered into the "screenshot only" sheet, which is mainly just for players who can't record video (or forgot) but still want their accomplishment acknowledged in some way.
Mind you, we don't go out of our way to verify every single submission, but submissions do need to be verifiable, hence a video is required.
daring osprey
whats the minimum heat for the video boonless mirrorless leaderboard
wispy blade
i think if someone better than me put in some more effort something like 42 or something heat would be pretty easily possible
mossy zinc
Challenges don't have a min Heat requirement.
The main high heat leaderboard requires min 32 Heat.
wispy blade
is coming out of the blood into the house good enough to show a prior death
mossy zinc
is coming out of the blood into the house good enough to show a prior death
Err... @daring hedge. No, right? Seed is already determined at this point. Death animation needs to be shown at the very least.
Don't remember how we judged videos like that in the past.
forest token
but there's no way of knowing what the first reward is tho because of save points right
unless there is a way to see what it is without going further
or if there's a way to reload save points
mossy zinc
but there's no way of knowing what the first reward is tho because of save point...
You can back up the save at the point where you leave the pool.
forest token
ah then prior death would have to be shown then
wispy blade
unfortunate
i guess i have to kill myself every other run
cause generally i end up quitting after each one
mossy zinc
I think that's the ruling we went with in the past, but pending confirmation from Tailesque.
daring osprey
I take it that accidentally using a boon cast that doesnt hit any enemies still counts as boonless
wispy blade
also
so
i took side hustle once
and counted how much money i had gotten from it in notepad
and then didnt spend below that threshold
is that permissible
waxen relic
The ruling was don't benefit from any boon. You clearly didn't.
iirc one boonless run has Dio Attack during the Heroes fight, but said that by not activating Shackle that meant an actual downgrade 
forest token
lmfao they've got a point there
daring osprey
good point
daring osprey
hestia dio attack is truly the most op combo in this game
daring osprey
50 heat boonless????
waxen relic
check the challenges Tab in the Sheet 
daring osprey
oh:(
mossy zinc
iirc one boonless run has Dio Attack during the Heroes fight, but said that by n...
@daring hedge ........ what am I finding out after one year of not bothering to verify your run? 
daring hedge
that one was a lot closer to hadesprof boonless, yeah. i was transparent about it in my vid description from the beginning lol
it's fine if you want to take it down from a specific leaderboard
it was dio attack for like half of elysium
mossy zinc
I don't remember it, but I've disqualified it for the sake of the spirit of the challenge. I'll leave it on the board, though. https://i.imgur.com/SfMOdTj.png
Does it qualify for the "boon purger" challenge that we moved Hadesprofessor's runs into?
waxen relic
That cat was just no boon at the end, right?
mossy zinc
No, it was purge any boons you can whenever you can, pretty much.
@daring hedge removed the DQ and just changed the category to Boon Purger. 
That means... ykc now has the unseeded boonless WR. 
waxen relic
welp the boon juggling is part of why i didn't do boonless myself
mossy zinc
Yeah, it can be a little frustrating.
hoary pasture
That's why I'm an onion boonless enjoyer
mossy zinc
Using a mod to solve it would make the challenge inaccessible for console players, so we can't do that.
hoary pasture
Yea fair
It also makes it easier in some ways
But Boonless with AP2 is kinda pain
daring hedge
<@164508146746785792> removed the DQ and just changed the category to Boon Purge...
that's fair
mossy zinc
With mods, we could probably just change every boon to onions or something.
hoary pasture
That's the onion mod
mossy zinc
Ah lol.
mossy zinc
But Boonless with AP2 is kinda pain
It's why I originally considered disregarding any Heat from AP for the category.
hoary pasture
Like if someone did 50 with ap2 it would count as 45 or what
mossy zinc
Yeah.
Doesn't outright DQ the run if you used AP, but also makes it worthless for the challenge to use AP.
mossy zinc
Nothing that sacred crocodiles can't solve.
I think the category would only benefit from the rule change. AP does nothing for it but create more unwinnable runs.
mossy zinc
That means... ykc now has the unseeded boonless WR. <:shadeohboy:520448134590234...
I forgot that there was a 51 from Tailesque above that actually lol.
waxen relic
It leads to why is this x Heat here when it's actually y Heat. And it devalues the runs where people did push through AP2.
mossy zinc
HADES HIGH HEAT LEADERBOARD
General Rules
A continuous video of the run is required. The minimum eligible Heat is 32. God Mode is not allowed. Mods that do not affect the run itself are allowed. (E.g., purely cosmetic mods, accessibility mods, and the quick reset mod are allowed.)
Above all, the rule for recordings is that the run needs to be verifiably a single attempt.
Unseeded
The death animation from the previous run must be included. No routing or deliberate seeding is allowed.
Seeded
Runs that meet the general rules but do not meet the criterium for Unseeded must be submitted under Seeded.
Victory Screen Only
A victory screenshot is required. No video is required.
Rules for Challenge Categories
Mirrorless
Routine Inspection 4 is required. Benefitting from Fated Keys (i.e., rerolls picked up from Chthonic Keys) is allowed.
Boonless
You may not benefit* from any boon in your run. Boons are: boons from the 8 gods, Lord Hermes, Master Chaos, and Bouldy. Sigil of the Dead is technically allowed, but you're not allowed to actually use the Call. Approval Process is not allowed.
*Making use of any boon that you consider to be detrimental (e.g., using the Attack when you have Drunken Strike, which disables Shattered Shackle on the Attack) will still disqualify the run.
Boonless w/ AP
Same rules as Boonless, but Approval Process is allowed and required.
Boon Purger
Boons must be purged whenever possible.
In addition to the above, we withhold the right to judge any run according to the spirit of the category.
For questions and clarifications of any rules, contact @mossy zinc or @daring hedge.
I'll move any boonless runs with AP into the new category.
Unless I hear a strong no from @daring hedge.
(A weak no will be overruled with sacred crocodiles. ๐ ๐ ๐)
mossy zinc
It leads to why is this x Heat here when it's actually y Heat. And it devalues t...
It leads to why is this x Heat here when it's actually y Heat.
I noticed the main issue with simply subtracting Heat was that the runs are also on the main high heat leaderboard.
But yeah, there could also be confusion.
pseudo kernel
does your run count as mirrorless if you reset your mirror with keys
waxen relic
Oh yea. Guess splitting them is fine. They're still in one tab after all.
If you reset with keys you can use the recharging Cast.
mossy zinc
Yeah, exactly.
Hence why RI4 is required. I think that's better for the category to just streamline it like that.
wispy blade
do i just have to scroll up to see why no AP or is this something from before
mossy zinc
Oh yea. Guess splitting them is fine. They're still in one tab after all.
Yep. You're right that devaluing their efforts by subtracting Heat would be somewhat disheartening. But I think boonless overall will benefit from not allowing AP.
mossy zinc
do i just have to scroll up to see why no AP or is this something from before
Because it does nothing for the category but create more unwinnable runs.
wispy blade
i see
mossy zinc
I wanna watch whoever decided to put superelite Chariots into Elysium Erebus try to actually clear that with FO2 BP2.
m not saying it can't be done, I just wanna watch Amir try it. He can try as many times as he likes.
hexed sapphire
Poseistia, Charged-Skestia, Beostia, Bowstia, [insert funny Malphon meme], Hesti...
Poseidon 50 
wispy blade
wait so
if coming out of the blood doesn't count because you can go back in save
can't you quit out of a room, save the file, record your death, and then have it be seeded?
haughty sky
it generates a random seed when you die
wispy blade
oh
wispy blade
can dad darkness if you meg immediatelyh
mossy zinc
He can, but Meg will hit him.
wispy blade
so is that best time to meg on em3
mossy zinc
Right at the start of the fight? For speed usually, yeah. For boonless mirrorless, I'd wait to see what he summons.
Just did 36 btw.
Unrecorded and modded, though.
wispy blade
modded would make life much better
mossy zinc
Reset for Flurry Shot second hammer.
wispy blade
zag?
mossy zinc
Yes. Screenshot is in #h1-victory-boasting.
16:33 boonless mirrorless 36 Heat, and some people do 40+ minute runs without TD at 32.
mossy zinc
You died?
mossy zinc
Did you make a practice save from that one?
mossy zinc
Definitely save a Meg, dad is the hardest part of the run.
Well, some Elysium rooms can be pretty bad.
mossy zinc
I don't do EM3 mirrorless lol. Just do EM2.
mossy zinc
I did FO2.
wispy blade
wh
wispy blade
mossy zinc
Easy room.
forest token
Yeah looks easy
mossy zinc
What weapon aspect are you using?
wispy blade
hestia
mossy zinc
Ah.
wispy blade
idek how you would take f o2
forest token
Just don't get hit
mossy zinc
So you're using Zag Bow without Twin Shot.
forest token
So you're using Zag Bow without Twin Shot.
What's the base dstrike damage on zag bow lol
wispy blade
no td3 or something?
wispy blade
What's the base dstrike damage on zag bow lol
50 isn't it
wispy blade
meanwhile hestia:
mossy zinc
Yeah, meanwhile Hestia taking two shots for every elite Numbskulls and elite Witch.
wispy blade
twin shot range too
mossy zinc
forest token
Tbf bow pierces lol
mossy zinc
That, too.
forest token
Buying hearts
mossy zinc
It's hell mode lol.
forest token
Lmfao
mossy zinc
Unmodded moment.
wispy blade
mods off though
forest token
They're just not being used lol
mossy zinc
CF2 hurts especially early when you could be buying Centaur Hearts and Well items.
Wells are pretty much your only source of healing for most of the run.
wispy blade
i forget can you purge strong drink
modest wharf
yes
wispy blade
i love great shields :)
mossy zinc
I think Flame Wheels are a lot worse.
wispy blade
i'd rather have 20 armored flame wheels than 10 armored great shields
which is what i had got each wave on that chamber
especially given i had explosive fire
wispy blade
i may have been lightly exaggerating
mossy zinc
i'd rather have 20 armored flame wheels than 10 armored great shields
The armored ones are free. The unarmored ones are the problem.
wispy blade
but it was one of those skull rooms
and there were like at least 6 on screen
plus some swords
mossy zinc
That's unlucky.
wispy blade
which made me wish i had taken piercing fire at the start of the run instead
wispy blade
The armored ones are free. The unarmored ones are the problem.
because there are more of them?
mossy zinc
The armored ones also have a bigger hurtbox.
wispy blade
oh
i prefer the unarmored ones because you can just temporarily play eris
would eris be functional?
same damage as lvl1 chain lightning common but with no chain lightning
also the bonus would suck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n55l-F2dwWw heres attempt that phased dad, is there anything i could do better other than git gud
mossy zinc
Idk the category is very underexplored. See what you can do with Eris.
wispy blade
i've literally never beat the game with eris
mossy zinc
lmao
mossy zinc
Time to make your first Eris clear boonless mirrorless?
wispy blade
real
i feel like you'd be significantly lacking in damage
the 75% is additive right
wispy blade
oh yeah
70 damage each hit isn't too bad
i mean
pretty bad
but not tooooo bad
although
it's' actually 110
which really isn't bad
but the range + 1 dash seems pretty crippling
i bet a god gamer could make it work, maybe even better than hestia
mossy zinc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n55l-F2dwWw heres attempt that phased dad, is th...
Being very greedy with your Attack rotation instead of playing it safe when he goes for spins especially.
While also not working your Special in very much at all for more damage.
wispy blade
yeah
mossy zinc
i bet a god gamer could make it work, maybe even better than hestia
Probably not.
wispy blade
i always forget if i have a special boon or not
mossy zinc
One more advantage of Zag Bow.
You don't care for your Special anyway.
Hestia better for the dad fight, though.
wispy blade
yeah the range
mossy zinc
I was lucky in my run earlier and got Patrocus c34 and that Jerky carried until dad lol.
wispy blade
nice
mossy zinc
Took me a few attempts over the last couple days tbh. I feel like 52 Heat Zag Bow was easier lol.
Well, most of the run is easy no-hit.
Did a few bad dad fights.
Aside from dad, Flame Wheels were pretty much the biggest problem because even though they usually didn't kill me, they did too much damage.
wispy blade
i generally take more from exalteds
mossy zinc
20 damage each time is a lot when you can't heal back from it any time soon and you have 200ish max HP.
wispy blade
if i get off timing the spear ones are really annoying
mossy zinc
Well, you didn't do FO2.
wispy blade
yeah that seems strange
even if you're a god gamer
what pact did you take
i cant find it in #h1-victory-boasting
like idek what you would drop to need fo2
wispy blade
no fo?
mossy zinc
wispy blade
yeah
wispy blade
would be 42
wispy blade
utc moment
mossy zinc
UTC+1
wispy blade
or one off utc
pst stays winning ๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช
mossy zinc
if i get off timing the spear ones are really annoying
I used to struggle against Longspears until Tailesque told me "longspears are among the easiest to kite enemies in the game imo."
wispy blade
yeah they're easy to dodge even with 1 dash so long as you keep up the circling
mossy zinc
You wanna try to make them commit to the lunge.
ashen garnet
pst stays winning ๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช๐ช
privileged status
daring osprey
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/556229350782009344/1072147519343165540/image.png approval process was a mistake ๐ฆ
hoary pasture
Hermes a tricky one for boonless
daring osprey
he disabled my dash and attack aswell
all i had was just the rocket which i dont know how to use
hoary pasture
Why are you using ap
daring osprey
i figured itd be free heat since im not going to use the boons anyway
it clearly wasnt
hoary pasture
Yea because you have to choose which boons youโre not gonna be using
Getting locked out of the core actions for the wep sucks
Cant roll it either most likely
mossy zinc
i figured itd be free heat since im not going to use the boons anyway
Please note the (newly formalized) boonless rules in this post. #h1-high-heat-strategies message
tl;dr: Boonless doesn't allow AP. Any boonless runs with AP will be sorted into a separate Boonless w/ AP category.
daring osprey
thats good to know even if i wasnt intending on submitting the run
shy plinth
tl;dr: **Boonless** doesn't allow AP. Any boonless runs with AP will be sorted i...
Do I need to update the form and sheet?
mossy zinc
Do I need to update the form and sheet?
I haven't quite decided on where to put the rules yet. Figured it'd would be a pretty long pin if I just add it to the pin. If you have any good ideas that aren't easy to miss, m all ears.
Or eyes, since I can't hear you.
shy plinth
Well I meant adding another option on the drop down
Figured the rules could go on the sheet and form too
mossy zinc
For Boonless w/ AP? Yeah, you can do that.
shy plinth
Form can get a little description
Sheet can get a bigger one
I mean it's p simple right, boonless isn't the same as boonless with ap
mossy zinc
Yep.
daring osprey
yall were right thans keepsake sucks ass and i hate him
wispy blade
would sudden rush zagshield be usable for boonless mirrorless
or achilles ig
zagshield is better i think
but the mobility is what i mean
hexed sapphire
sketch
forest token
Probably but you'd have to note it in the description or something
I think tailesque sped up their pause in their rama run
hoary pasture
As long as it's one continuous recording with no cuts
wispy blade
oh
i had to cut because
i started the run during class
and then i actually had to do things
hoary pasture
You're gonna have to wait for one of the sheet mods to answer that because it's a bit different than Speedrunning leaderboards but that should be invalid sadly.
wispy blade
looks like im not starting any more runs during class then
or maybe only during calc
hoary pasture
Or just keep the recording going
shy plinth
I think opening up sectioned recordings is a pretty dangerous thing
Probs gonna say no to avoid any kind of precedent here that could lead to trouble or drama
wispy blade
died anyways
wispy blade
killed asterius and started walking and then theseus just pops out of nowhere and kills me with contact damage 
mossy zinc
is a run eligible if i paused for about an hour in it
Depends. If the pause is during a moment that can't be easily recreated after reloading the safe, then it's still obviously a continuous run even if you cut out the pause.
So for example if you pause right after Zag enters a room and stands still, then no because it's relatively easy to pause at the same moment on a different attempt. And so it can't be verified.
If it's a pause during combat, for example, then it's virtually impossible to pause again in the same situation on a different attempt. So there's no problem because it's easily verifiable that it's still the same run.
Above all, the rule for recordings is that the run needs to be verifiably a single attempt.
Added that last sentence to the rules.
mossy zinc
wait hades can hit behind the 2 pilars?
Isometric perspective might be screwing you over.
daring osprey
he dashed into a pilar only for the sweep to still land:(
mossy zinc
Yeah, can't fully rely on the rocks there. Still wanna i-frame with dash or call.
daring osprey
Yeah, can't fully rely on the rocks there. Still wanna i-frame with dash or call...
cant really call and i dont know which parts of the dash are safe:(
mossy zinc
Empty dash is invulnerable for the whole duration.
daring osprey
no wonder i have been able to avoid some of his sweeps when i really should have been hit
mossy zinc
If you do an Attack or anything mid-dash, you're no longer invulnerable.
daring osprey
you can attack mid dash?
mossy zinc
It's called a Dash-Strike.
daring osprey
huh so thats what that means
wispy blade
how did you play sword
shy plinth
huh so thats what that means
I wasn't sure if you knew this before but figured you would ketchup eventually
daring osprey
how did you play sword
arthur slashes that got carried with the dash?
wispy blade
have u ever played nem or pos
mossy zinc
Game doesn't tell you that empty dashes are invulnerable, unfortunately.
daring osprey
and now arthur is somebody i used to know
mossy zinc
Or that activating any Call or Summon gives i-frames.
daring osprey
no it doesnt
shy plinth
It does, in fact
forest token
Hitting summon also removes all projectiles from screen I'm pretty sure
shy plinth
Also yes
wispy blade
thats how you do power couple right
wispy blade
ive seen circling around the pissrag who runs away from you and waiting for the rock to drop
haughty sky
using summon to turn an airborne cast into a grounded one for rod ๐ง
mossy zinc
ive seen circling around the pissrag who runs away from you and waiting for the ...
The Megagorgon is moving to be a specific distance away from Zagreus. If you're further away than that, it'll move towards you.
forest token
0 cycle sneak
limpid nymph
Hi I am in a lucky 32 heat run (using the exact heat setup as in the pinned message) on Poseidon sword in which I got offered crystal clarity in tartarus. I just got offered an epic glacial glare and an epic rare crop at the asphodel midboss. I have a common crystal beam that rare crop would be guraranteed to hit, along with a couple poms on it and chaos damage. I know rare crop can be a meme, but would it be worth it here?
mossy zinc
Crystal Clarity 100%.
Rare Crop is a decent boon, just way too much opportunity cost here.
limpid nymph
errr sorry if I was confusing I am choosing between glacial glare and rare crop. I already got the duo
mossy zinc
Same thing. Glacial Glare.
mossy zinc
errr sorry if I was confusing I am choosing between glacial glare and rare crop....
You weren't confusing them, I just apparently didn't read the full message lmao.
haughty sky
shop if you need something to sell
wispy blade
it's boonless mirrorless
took heart
worked out
do you have to pick up dio's premium vintage nectar
i dont think so
you dont have to take sunken treasure
mossy zinc
do you have to pick up dio's premium vintage nectar
If you don't pick up the Nectar and don't pick up another Nectar after that, you're fine.
mossy zinc
RIP.
wispy blade
was going so good
mossy zinc
Yeah, poison can be tricky when mirrorless.
mossy zinc
I had a great run that pretty much ended to Dire Satyr + Dire Snakestone because it was either I stay on one side of the wall and get HL5-poisoned or I dash through the wall and take multiple HL5 hits from the Snakestone lmao.
mossy zinc
Won the fight but took way too much damage.
mossy zinc
is there a leaderboard for this modded
No, but m sure @waxen relic won't mind adding a category to the modded high heat leaderboard if there's interest in boonless and mirrorless for modded.
gaunt fiber
boonless mirrorless hm
Shackle charged shot zag shield, you'll prolly fall sleep but you can clear 50+ without too much trouble probably
maybe I'm underestimating the boonless part though
mossy zinc
Maybe underestimating the combination of the two.
gaunt fiber
Let's settle on 45
neat sonnet
the sheer lack of leniency mirrorless imposes on boonless sounds awful
wispy blade
it's just ff but you can get every god but you cant use them and you have max levelled weapons and shackle and meg and hl and em and td and bp and mm and not unaspected sword
but overall still ffโผ๏ธ
how much healing does shady drop
gaunt fiber
mirrorless is easier than FF
wispy blade
mirrorless alone yeah
gaunt fiber
You still benefit from free poms and rerolls
wispy blade
so i tried zagshield
i think this has potential for higher
if you ditch td3
because it deals much better with fo
with 1 dash
so theoretically
this would be very rng
but
would castspects be possible with fauth keys + hourglass + braids + stones
hoary pasture
Possible for mirrorless?
waxen relic
The start doesn't work.
hoary pasture
You'd use such a strat towards the end of the run. At the beginning you're looking for Chaos to give you a stone or more
wispy blade
boonless
hoary pasture
How much heat
hoary pasture
I think you'll just need to ignore the castspect part and play with Shackle and good hammers then
wispy blade
i wouldn't anyways, i hate casts
waxen relic
You do need quite a lot of items to reach similar dps.
hoary pasture
And very few weps work well without a second dash
wispy blade
oh i forgot you start wiht 1 stone
hoary pasture
Yea that's why on a typical mirrorless run you'd get your cast boon and pray for a second stone from Chaos. But boonless mirrorless 
waxen relic
On a typical mirrorless run you ignore the cast after the first chambers.
wispy blade
hestia stays winning ๐ช ๐ช ๐ช ๐ช ๐ช ๐ช
wispy blade
On a typical mirrorless run you ignore the cast after the first chambers.
i think most of my runs ive ended up not castign once because it's the first slot to go
hoary pasture
On a typical mirrorless run you ignore the cast after the first chambers.
On Hera or Poseidon sword maybe
On Beowulf you can make it work
waxen relic
And on all the non-Cast Aspects
hoary pasture
Well the convo is about castspects so
wispy blade
talos
waxen relic
Thought you were going to the broader picture. Anyways i got Achilles after switching away from the cast and did Eris and Talos without Cast too. Though that is just me and how i did it.
hoary pasture
That's probably the play
I originally did 40 Beo with cshot shackle aswell
But Pseudo did it with 2 stones
passion flare and all that
waxen relic
It's just Beo that still gets good use from the cast.
hoary pasture
Yes
wispy blade
well
modest wharf
surely youโd want pers for well rolls
haughty sky
auth for more wells
wispy blade
so real
mossy zinc
Reroll Pools into Wells.
wispy blade
well
i did the thing again
but so
i had just beat lernie when my class started
but i paused in the middle of an attack
so when i unpause the attack animation will finish
will that work
mossy zinc
Sure.
mossy zinc
Right?
stuck jackal
chaos 'your attack does % more' doesnt apply to onhits does it?
jaunty falcon
correct
wispy blade
5 hearts in tart
one (1) in aspho
winged cedar
ใใHADESใใ64็ญใ็พ3้ท็น modใ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1JG4y1S74t/?share_source=copy_web&vd_source=7658e3c42f3d573a7da0ccf6c6859ca0
mossy zinc
ใใHADESใใ64็ญใ็พ3้ท็น modใ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1JG4y1S74t/?share_sour...
This is your run?
hoary pasture
It's somebody else's in the chinese community
mossy zinc
I see. I don't think the modded leaderboard has a Chinese translation like the vanilla board does?
The video doesn't qualify for unseeded. Do they have a recording of the run that includes the death from previous run?
hoary pasture
It is seeded epic special
mossy zinc
The description says unseeded.
forest token
Maybe they meant unrouted
mossy zinc
Possibly.
hoary pasture
I havent translated the description I'm just going off of what's being said in speedcord
Quite a few high heaters joined recently
mossy zinc
ๆ็ๅคช่ไบ๏ผๅๅนดๅคๆฒกๆไน็ฉไบ๏ผ็นๆไธๅจ็ญ่พฉ๏ผไนๅๆไธๆๆ็ๆดๅฅฝ็ๆฒก่ฟ๏ผ่ฟๆ็บฏ้ ็ฅ็ฆ่ก
64ๆฏๆณ่ฑกไธญๅฅฝๆ๏ผๆ็ฅ็ฆ๏ผไธ็ขฐ้ด้ดๆชๅฐฑ่ก๏ผๆฅไธชไบบๆunseeded
hoary pasture
probably just means unrouted then
mossy zinc
That's the description.
wispy blade
i think they said they meant unmodded
not sure if this is the same person
dunno man
i saw unseeded and it wasnt necessarily unseeded
mossy zinc
Also, that can't be unmodded because it's clearly modded lol.
Well, ain't nothing for me to worry about, I left the responsibility for the modded leaderboard to other people.
I've added a link to the formalized rules to the pin.
@shy plinth, can you add a Rules sheet to the front and add them there? And add the categories to the submission form.
@nimble zenith can you translate the rules into Chinese? @shy plinth can help you add them to the Chinese leaderboard + add the categories to the Chinese submission form.
Thanks! 
shy plinth
Kk
quartz mantle
The description says unseeded. <:tizomg:456913427588317184>
Apparently translated it says
โi'm so bad haven't played in half a year, bad dad fight, had a better run before but didn't finish it, the eury carried. 64 easier than what i imagined, just get blessing and don't get hit, someone play unseeded next"
quartz mantle
not sure if this is the same person
No, the 64 heat run was done by a Chinese user whoโs name roughly translates to Juanbi
mossy zinc
Apparently translated it says
โi'm so bad haven't played in half a year, bad da...
Ohh that makes more sense. Thanks!
wispy blade
uh
im in styx rn
boonless mirrorless
with only piercing fire
do i anvil
nothing is detrimental on hestia right
forest token
rip
wispy blade
i had targeting system and delta chamber
the targeting system is actually cracked
i got sloppy at the end and took like 3 pots and 2 spins
forest token
with delta chamber it would've been funny if you played it is bad zag rail lmao
get those iframes
forest token
modded seeded
idle hound
Afaik first boon guaranteed epic and 2sack
Pretty standard ngl
It reduces what would have been a stream of resets, but that's another conversation
forest token
guaranteed hammer choice as well
could've also used a separate mod for guaranteed epic boon start
mossy zinc
But darn, pure 64 remains unconquered
Resetting that much for a seed that has even just a chance of a chance is not very appealing.
forest token
imagine finally getting the rests you needed for an epic thunder flourish and explosive return to get 3 sacked lmao
there's quite a few people saying the run doesn't count because it's modded in the subreddit lmao
mossy zinc
3-sack potentially still doable depending on the free rooms etc. before that.
forest token
true, but i think he skipped like 2 midshops
hoary pasture
The subreddit causes brain damage
forest token
he skipped the midshops for good reason tbf but that cut out all his extra time for a 3 sack
hoary pasture
Whatever run it is, youโll always have those people
forest token
yeah lmao
bronze rapids
Someone should make a "just get the boons" shirt
forest token
honestly
that doesn't sound too bad of an idea
also thankfully haelian commented on the reddit post so maybe they'll listen to him lmao
hoary pasture
Basically same as 64 since non hell mode
forest token
probably 64 viable because personal liability isn't doing much
PL would probably only proc once and that's because you got slapped for 75% of your hp
haughty sky
no pl is like 63.9
wispy blade
there's quite a few people saying the run doesn't count because it's modded in t...
someone said it's like if everyone used dream luck
52%
forest token
it's so horrible lmfao
i'd like to see them reset for 12 hours straight to get the starting boon they want
and then make it out of tartarus lmao
wispy blade
i think the default category when you open speedrun.com hades should be modded at this point
mossy zinc
Seeded meta in early access was painful. Once you found a seed it was fine. But I reset for 2 hours just to get a Charged Flight start with AP2 lol.
forest token
poor keepout and kontra trying to tell people in the comments that it's a legitimate run
mossy zinc
It's not letal on the vanilla leaderboard.
wispy blade
"Watching the video. He has a mod on that shows the boss fight previews (for example, Soul Catcher behind the Elysium miniboss door.
I wouldn't count it."
forest token
soul catcher is literally guaranteed from the modpack lmao
tbf the description didn't describe the modpack too well
shy plinth
It's variance smoothing
You could get a run like this so we're just skipping all the runs that you'd find out 20 minutes in that they're not doable
wispy blade
mossy zinc
Tbf it doesn't help that modded players tend to just leave out "modded" when claiming this or that is WR or whatever or imply there's no difference. I see that often enough.
haughty sky
average
wispy blade
ok what the hell does " Theo used Diyoโs boon" mean
forest token
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1054474976083849236/1073041389606162453/i...
guy really said "Idk man as someone with around 10 40 Heat runs under my belt" except they didn't complete 40 heat
haughty sky
guaranteed hammer and 4 options first boon literally cuts out like 47/48 runs
40 isnโt free but itโs so far removes from this anyway
forest token
don't forget guaranteed epic boon too lol
forest token
i think angel said it's something like 1/5000? in her post
wispy blade
but it's totally "cheating a 64 heat win"
haughty sky
the bottom line is none of these people understand what it takes to win a run at that level
bronze rapids
as an average gamer who does 40 heat off meta runs, no mods does mean I highroll with Earring more, to get more time insurance
mossy zinc
Ngl the title of that reddit post is misleading. I don't agree with some of the comments on it, but the title is misleading.
wispy blade
i mean we're talking about a community that apparently hasn't moved past chaos shield
forest token
Ngl the title of that reddit post is misleading. I don't agree with some of the ...
get clickbaited
wispy blade
i mean we're talking about a community that apparently hasn't moved past chaos s...
imagine not being the in-group
mossy zinc
Don't see the value of attacking the subreddit either. If you want to comment on what people post, just do it there. The SGG server is meant to be welcoming and kind. Attacking another community is a bad look.
wispy blade
i need my fill of vitriol
mossy zinc
get clickbaited
Honestly, at this point I am no longer giving people the benefit of the doubt that it's by accident. I've seen claims of WR this WR that without specifying that it's modded way too many times. Doesn't happen for speedruns.
forest token
that's fair
wispy blade
with speedruns there are very clearly categories for modded and unmodded while for just a sort of game achievement there aren't as tightly defined rules
mossy zinc
We have very clear rules for mods on the vanilla high heat leaderboard.
We're just more lenient with accepting some mods that don't affect the run itself.
mossy zinc
Irrelevant to my point anyway.
wispy blade
i'd imagine that's why people are more comfortable claiming it's an overall WR
mossy zinc
i'd imagine that's why people are more comfortable claiming it's an overall WR
I think it's more likely they're simply equating the two in difficulty. Which is fine if they think that, but then it shouldn't be a problem to clarify it's modded if they think the two stand on equal footing.
winged cedar
ใใHADESใใ็ญๅบฆๆๆปกใ็พ3ๅ็ฑ็น-63็ญๆฎ้ๆกฃ๏ผModded๏ผใ https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Me4y1P7DV/?share_source=copy_web&vd_source=637535dee7e4d83928194c979aa75f20
gaunt fiber
Tbf it doesn't help that modded players tend to just leave out "modded" when cla...
T H I S
mossy zinc
T H I S
Yeah idk what's up with that. Look at the top runs on the modded speedrun leaderboard and literally every single one has "modded" in the title. Do the same on the modded high heat leaderboard and maybe half of them have it in the title, if that. It's like they want it to appear legitimate and on equal footing with unmodded while shooting themselves in the foot hiding that it's modded or something.
cosmic olive
Literally the modding just avoid to throw away a perfect run by the Satyre's rng. Even just for that it's important.
mossy zinc
Literally the modding just avoid to throw away a perfect run by the Satyre's rng...
Modpack does more than just guarantee 2-sack lol.
winged cedar
Sorry everyone, mysterra's 63 heat video was censored by bilibili (because Aphrodite's beautiful body didn't pass the censorship:AphroditeBond: ), and is now being re-uploaded, if it doesn't pass the censorship he will upload it to YouTube
Like this
Sorry everyone, mysterra's 63 heat video was censored by bilibili (because Aphrodite's beautiful body didn't pass the censorship ), and is now being re-uploaded, if it doesn't pass the censorship he will upload it to YouTube
Like this
gaunt fiber
lmao
winged cedar
gaunt fiber
Aphrodite has downsides after all
winged cedar
Bilibili won't allow aphrodite on it
cosmic olive
Modpack does more than just guarantee 2-sack lol.
I know but It's the thing at the end that could, that's why I used this one as an example
winged cedar
gaunt fiber
What a thumbnail
mossy zinc
Nice.
shy gulch
thatโs fire lmao
unborn palm
Ayo so I'm trying to do a 32 heat run because I'm trying to like 100% the game, any strats that don't require maxed out Extreme Measures because I literally cry when I get to the final boss lmfaooo
hoary pasture
Ayo so I'm trying to do a 32 heat run because I'm trying to like 100% the game, ...
Check pins
unborn palm
Ah right, thank you
daring osprey
im trying to do a 20 heat run on lucifer but i have never played with that aspect before what gods should i be aiming for?
mossy zinc
Ayo so I'm trying to do a 32 heat run because I'm trying to like 100% the game, ...
EM4 is basically never recommended for 32 Heat, although we can help with strats if somebody really insists on it. Do you have a preferred aspect you wanna use or is anything fine?
wispy blade
hl5 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 td3 ๐ช ๐ช ๐ช ๐ช
shy plinth
Seems unwise lol
unborn palm
EM4 is basically never recommended for 32 Heat, although we can help with strats...
Honestly nemesis aspect or chaos shield
wispy blade
zagshield
unborn palm
Nah because doom on special for chaos shield does work
forest token
Not chaos is a good aspect
unborn palm
Doonshield build>>>>>
forest token
50 minute games
mossy zinc
Honestly nemesis aspect or chaos shield
Ah... we can help you make it work, but you could choose a good aspect instead if you want to make it easier.
wispy blade
nem isn't too hard for 32
heart rend and +dashes and you're home free mostly
but something not-melee would definitely be easier
mossy zinc
nem isn't too hard for 32
It's definitely one of the worst for easy wins.
daring osprey
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1072149996218110035/1073726206505140335/Hades_Screenshot_2023.02.10_-_23.26.11.66.png?width=1014&height=571 apart from td3 what should i enable to increase heat further?(still doing boonless mirrorless so i cant add ap if that helps in any way)
unborn palm
Damage control or overtime
mossy zinc
Anything but that.
daring osprey
Anything but that.
anything more specific in mind?
mossy zinc
Turn off CF because that can cost you 25~50 max HP from shops in Tartarus.
BP2 shouldn't be much of a problem. You'll just need to learn to deal with the different BP2 combos.
And not run into Speeder Chariots lol.
daring osprey
Turn off CF because that can cost you 25~50 max HP from shops in Tartarus.
i usually have somewhere around 700 coins min when i get there so that hasnt become a problem yet
mossy zinc
i usually have somewhere around 700 coins min when i get there so that hasnt bec...
Tartarus is the first biome lmao.
daring osprey
Tartarus is the first biome lmao.
i may be dumb
mossy zinc
It's fine for the later regions, but the things you miss out in early shops and wells can cost you in the long run.
DC and FO are two of the worst pacts you could take, so just... don't do that lol. DC2 on Rama would be fine still even boonless mirrorless, but strongly recommend against it on any other aspect.
And FO2 with one dash just takes a lot of skill.
Great for practice, though.
wispy blade
Turn off CF because that can cost you 25~50 max HP from shops in Tartarus.
i've missed out on 1 total tart heart on cf2
in like 20 odd runs
mossy zinc
Honestly nemesis aspect or chaos shield
Nemesis relies a lot on getting a powerful build to carry you through or otherwise just takes a lot more skill than other aspects because you're constantly using your dashes for DPS, which means you're constantly out of dashes to evade hits.
Most effective way to play Chaos is to get Charged Shot and completely ignore the Special. Second most effective is to get Merciful End with Doom on Attack and completely ignore the Special or maybe get Tidal Dash + Lightning Strike + Static Discharge and completely ignore the Special. About the third most effective way is to get Explosive Return and start Thunder Flourish and then use mostly the single-shield Special instead.
mossy zinc
i've missed out on 1 total tart heart on cf2
I missed out on more than that with CF0 lol. I might be buying more Well items idk.
wispy blade
i don't buy a lot of well items
mostly because everything i find is eye of lamia and rng god
mossy zinc
Eye of Lamia is nice though when you have no other healing.
mossy zinc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkYo7bSH05Q
You'll want to like... dash left and right near a wall instead of circling them like you do. That way you can e.g. dash left and bait them there, dash right to evade, then dash back left to finish some of them off. If you keep dashing right, they'll just keep shielding each other and you're not finishing any of them off.
Also just use bow and have piercing.
With Twin Shot.
And actual damage on Attack.
wispy blade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkYo7bSH05Q
this is literally not my slowest tart
how
mossy zinc
Back to Chaos 32... you can build on the aspect's gimmick, which can be fun, but it's a fact that it's gonna be less effective.
For pact, just do that:
Should work just fine for both.
Owl Pendant is for Divine Dash and getting DDs from her after that.
mossy zinc
Probably shop since it's unmodded.
mossy zinc
2-sack mentality, you're less pressed for time, so you can take hammer.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
wispy blade
can never hit him and he's always hitting you
and he tricks you into thinking the aoe is way smaller than it is
I'M NOT RECORDING?
WHY
WHY
I'M IN STYX WITH 335 AND I'M NOT RECORDING
daring osprey
I'M IN STYX WITH 335 AND I'M NOT RECORDING
oh no
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1073736173425545317/Hades_Screenshot_2023.02.11_-_00.42.24.46.png what heat should i add next?
wispy blade
get used to fo
daring osprey
aight
shy plinth
Did you check the progression chart in the pins
wispy blade
it's boonless mirrorless
mossy zinc
lmao
daring osprey
XD
mossy zinc
I'M IN STYX WITH 335 AND I'M NOT RECORDING
We do have a victory screens only sheet on the leaderboard.
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1073736173425545317/Ha...
BP2.
wispy blade
my 2sack mentality failed
mossy zinc
FO2 great practice overall, HS great for practicing room layouts and learning not to walk on magma every other second in Asphodel lol.
wispy blade
are you kidding me with this
why are snakestones so annoying
died anyways
this is the pact i use
everything sorta required except you only need 2 of 3 of fo1, cf2 and a point somewhere, or em3
or you can do fo2
targ system stacks with fo2 to make enemies move only about 0.8% faster
haughty sky
is em3 that bad
haughty sky
resisting the urge to say skill issue
mossy zinc
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1054474976083849236/1073737890045120532...
Turn off FO and up HL.
Or keep dying to Snakestones and dad.
wispy blade
my targ system cheese doesnt work on hl
mossy zinc
resisting the urge to say skill issue
You do it better then.
wispy blade
pls deal with em3 asterius and theseus with 1 dash
mossy zinc
And no boons.
daring osprey
my sweet jesus who gave the spear dudes the ability to generate shields
i went into the room with full hp and after the first wave it was 8
wispy blade
who gave ____________ the ability to generate shields
daring osprey
havent seen the others yet
wispy blade
have you not turned on bp yet/???
daring osprey
i had 1 on
wispy blade
before this run
wispy blade
have fun with chariots
daring osprey
thanks i wont:D
daring osprey
25 HEAT CLEAR WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
modest wharf
the number doesn't say much compared to max RI lol
forest token
boonless mirrorless moment
daring osprey
the number doesn't say much compared to max RI lol
what was ri again?
isnt that the one im currently doing
daring osprey
oh yeah
wispy blade
ru keeding
triple bomb seeking flurry
jesus triple is annoying
screws with my rotation
daring osprey
aint that the truth
why does it take me 4 hrs to upload a run:(
drive you are better than this
wispy blade
why do i keep getting dzeusd by theseus
daring osprey
what?
daring osprey
arent they wonderful:D
my fav part of the fight is when he summons speedboosted damageboosted chariots that take like 11 hits to kill
wanton pebble
how do you deal with those DC BP using hestia?
shy plinth
What heat?
shy plinth
It does yes
Because if you're below 50 I would probably say don't take dc
Unless you mean savior skulls, in which case sometimes you don't deal with them (tartarus) but sometimes you can strip shields with regular attack and hopefully pop a few with cast and special etc
wanton pebble
no i mean those BP enemies that does DC
shy plinth
Savior skulls
Yeah you have a pretty narrow window and stripping shields with regular attack will let you take out a couple
As long as they're not cloners you should be okay
wanton pebble
can bp2 have cloner+savior?
shy plinth
I... think so? There's some mod that makes more of them and makes them bubble
I always forget the specific combinations that are blacklisted
Nyaanyaa will know
wanton pebble
i see. but savior skull itself is annoying by itself. thanks anyway. maybe just a skill issue. too used to shot+reload
forest token
tidal dash will help a lot