“Oh it’s just a little bit of || poison || how bad could it hur- and I’m dead”
#h1-for-new-players
near sail
burnt skiff
"How bad can it b- BLOOD AND DARKNESS, ||NYX|| HELP!"
paper imp
The ROOM is tiny and I play melee weapons ):
hot yoke
Even with melee you should have decent options with range at that point of your run
With melee you can stunlock the unarmored rats
With gauntlets they're the most tricky
Spear has enough range, sword has ground pound, shield has throw
near sail
I’ve managed to get to || Hades || with the gun
Idk how the hell i can do it with the fists or the bow
hot yoke
Try the bow aspects
With fists you need a good build
Long knuckle with support fire from artemis works
Give you enough range
near sail
I have like one aspect that did well and it was the homing special
burnt skiff
You will get there, Delsin.
burnt skiff
I also reached ||Hades|| for the first time with ||Rail||.
hot yoke
Chiron kills mfs
burnt skiff
And then I beat him with everything BUT ||Rail||.
hot yoke
My first clear was shield
First time I reached redacted was fists tho
odd jetty
Quick question for the god trinkets...if you spurn their first appearance because you like what's in the other room better, do you still get the bonus to rarity the next time you see them?
Or do you have to go with that god's option right away? Do we know?
burnt skiff
Yes.
hot yoke
Bonus rarity is independent from the other effect
burnt skiff
Bonus to rarity is always active.
hot yoke
Yes
But it only forces the first appearance
odd jetty
Yeah I figured, I thought the effects were integrated with each other.
burnt skiff
Also remember, in case you didn't know, that if you swap to another trinket - the previous one will be unavaible for the rest of the run.
odd jetty
Thanks, but yeah I know. I believe I'm 4 wins in now, just need the fists and the rail before I start piling on the heat.
thorny scroll
@paper imp You know you can remove the poison right?
odd jetty
But yeah I know most systems, not really new player anymore lol there's just some little things I don't understand. Many more failed runs than wins.
thorny scroll
just kill them b4 they kill you
hot yoke
Just don't get hit
odd jetty
How do you deal with the|| poison rats ||I always lose at least 1 death defiance
@paper imp You are also meant to use the healing wells mid-combat. Know where they are right away.
Like try to maintain awareness of where they are to minimize loss.
It helps.
paper imp
@thorny scroll @odd jetty yeah I use them but right after I clear the poison I end up stepping back into it to deal more damage
odd jetty
It's all about kiting. Use your casts.
thorny scroll
if you are melee make sure you are running enough damage
hot yoke
Well don't step into the obvious puddles xD
paper imp
How long does poison take to vanish
odd jetty
It's def awe with melee
thorny scroll
it doesn't
odd forge
Also, I think it's fairly finicky to use the wells anyway
hot yoke
Poison never vanisjes
odd jetty
awk*
hot yoke
Use pools
thorny scroll
it ends with well or finishing combat
odd forge
I always end up fumbling around them and taking more damage when I try to
thorny scroll
so if you are fast you can just nuke them
paper imp
Like does the poison on the floor go away?
odd forge
(So I tend to just try to nuke stuff instead)
hot yoke
Also the satyr attacks are well telegraphed
thorny scroll
yeah just nuke 🙂
hot yoke
Yes the poison on the floor vanishes with time
odd jetty
@odd forge Do you use controller or mouse? On controller I spam the crap out of RB and it usually takes.
daring oracle
You will get used to the layouts of the rooms because it’s the same sets of room every time
hot yoke
^^^^
daring oracle
So you learn quickly where the healing wells are
hot yoke
Memorize the rooms
thorny scroll
the thing is tho
you should go into act 4 with 350+ hp
and you usually find the treat for the dog by the 3rd chamber
so you have 100+hp per chamber
which should be enough
hot yoke
Wtf
odd forge
@odd forge Do you use controller or mouse? On controller I spam the crap out of RB and it usually takes.
@odd jetty I use m+kb, I think it's the "getting the right position relative to the well" that messes me up, since I tend to dash to them, which is less precise.
daring oracle
How are you getting 350+ hp?
hot yoke
Probably by not having a build
daring oracle
I’ve only had that happen in 1/25 successful runs
odd forge
...I've very rarely made it to act 4 with that much hp
odd jetty
@odd forge Yeah it's tricky. I feel like maybe using a M4 or M5 button might help?
valid venture
lol I never get my health pool up that high unless I have the one Dionysus boon that gives me increased health for each nectar and I get lucky on nectar rooms
odd jetty
350 is very hard without the collar.
hot yoke
Hp on darkness helps
burnt skiff
350
thorny scroll
i use collar
odd jetty
And a bit overkill.
thorny scroll
i put collar on at end of act 3
burnt skiff
I usually go with 200, for now.
hot yoke
Collar is waste
foggy zephyr
I just aim for 200 or slightly less
burnt skiff
Which is 100 from start.
hot yoke
Just put on tooth then
odd jetty
I use the tooth on every single win I've had.
foggy zephyr
350 just seems overkill
hot yoke
Spearpoint or acorn m8
burnt skiff
I don't think I need it anymore... but still.
hot yoke
350 IS overkill
odd jetty
But if you have 350, you facetank
hot yoke
Tooth just gives a dealing of safety
odd jetty
So it'r a way of doing it.
burnt skiff
350 would either require getting lucky with bonus to Max Health pick ups.. and focusing too much on them.
hot yoke
Won't learn the game when you facetank
daring oracle
You don’t really need to add the tooth in the first few areas
valid venture
I was using the tooth and the collar a lot when I first started, it gets easier as you learn the weapons and builds to chase. I haven't touched either of those keepsakes in ages at this point.
daring oracle
Might as well use other boons in the beginning and switch after heroes
odd jetty
@hot yoke It's just a way of doing it. The game gives you some tools to brute force and they're fine to use.
thorny scroll
my first 4-5 clears were like 35 mins
odd jetty
See I'm at 50 runs with 4 wins.
burnt skiff
Damn.
thorny scroll
but now with fists or spear i clear sub 25
odd forge
My first and only clear was about 29 mins
valid venture
Damn, that's impressive. I think I was at ~30 runs when I got my first clear. I'd made it to the final boss a ton of times but never actually won.
odd jetty
So idk you're doing something right.
odd forge
but that was after 106 other runs, so you know
thorny scroll
well i actually did 12 runs and then made a new account
hot yoke
Of course to everyone they're own playstyle
burnt skiff
Then again - I run around a lot, even after battle, so I do keep getting time.
thorny scroll
thats why i stack hp
hot yoke
Idk my best is like 25 lol
I'm a terrible speed runner
valid venture
My best clear at this point is I think 17 minutes
thorny scroll
so i just facetank and shred stuff
valid venture
IGT anyway
burnt skiff
And sometimes not immiedietly go another map, so...
thorny scroll
even going for 300+ hp you have to avoid damage
hot yoke
Enjoy the scenery
odd jetty
But then there's something to be said about self-imposed challenges. I'm trying to git gud with the butterfly.
hot yoke
You would have to avoid much damage I'd you actually had a decent build
thorny scroll
but there are certain setups o take that do big damage and are easy to get
odd jetty
But man that's a recipe for a frustrating run.
hot yoke
Which you would have if you wouldn't take hp items all the gime
burnt skiff
But then there's something to be said about self-imposed challenges. I'm trying to git gud with the butterfly.
hot yoke
*time
thorny scroll
well i mean
burnt skiff
Please don't remind me about those monsters.
thorny scroll
if im only 35 attempts n
burnt skiff
I hate them.
odd jetty
Haha I'm talking the pierced butterfly.
thorny scroll
it seems the builds are good ^^
burnt skiff
Oh...
odd jetty
||Thanatos's|| trinket.
thorny scroll
so what on like a rare dmg/crit boon
hot yoke
You need two ||
thorny scroll
the difference between lvl 5 and lvl 6
odd jetty
Got it!
thorny scroll
is like 5% dmg
whats the point
the diminishing returns on dmg boons is so bad that after lvl 5-6 HP is way better value
odd jetty
Levels seem to give super diminishing returns.
burnt skiff
Depends
odd jetty
Depends on your playstyle.
burnt skiff
^
odd jetty
You're just convincing me that max HP buffing needs a nerf lol.
thorny scroll
occasionally i end up with like 260 hp but thats low - but i always swap in collar for last act
burnt skiff
5% here, another bonus there, backstabk on 2 curses
hot yoke
Oof
thorny scroll
atm im just running crit on the spear with dash-strike hitting 3 times
or knockback o nthe gloves
thorny scroll
yeh its not worth it
odd jetty
But yeah deflect and other supporty moves don't need levels and I think that's fine.
thorny scroll
but i need to figure out whas better
hot yoke
Why does such a good boi have such a cursed trinket
thorny scroll
@odd jetty max hp stacking doesn't need a nerf
burnt skiff
But yeah deflect and other supporty moves don't need levels and I think that's fine.
thorny scroll
what needs a nerf is deflect on dash
burnt skiff
Unless you build around them.
odd jetty
Yeah it needs to have a cooldown or something.
thorny scroll
yeah just
hot yoke
Nothing's op if everythings op
thorny scroll
make other dash boons more viable
odd jetty
Then the game gets too easy.
odd jetty
But not taking it feels bad.
thorny scroll
yup
hot yoke
The game doesn't force you to take it
odd jetty
At a certain point to make the game interesting better players will just have to have higher heat mobs.
hot yoke
Other stuff is viabke
thorny scroll
give it an internal cooldown of 4-5 seconds or something
odd jetty
And at a certain point the game becomes...look at Path of Exile.
thorny scroll
its viable sure but it's not like.. Viable lol
hot yoke
Why are you so hard on the nerf train
odd jetty
If you don't blow up an entire screen your build is crap.
hot yoke
Compare path of exile to hades
Fair comparison
odd jetty
And it just feels silly.
thorny scroll
why am i not going to take deflect on dash?
hot yoke
Look at speed runner in hades
odd jetty
I mean I am just wary of power creep making a game feel...uninteractive.
hot yoke
You haven't tried the game m8
The other dashes are viable
Just not as brain dead
Literally no one forces you to use athena dash but your own mentality
odd jetty
Because I kinda hate PoE because they buff everything to such an extent that it practically plays itself.
hot yoke
Thats your own trauma
odd jetty
Your own mentality is a valid ruiner of fun though.
hot yoke
How?
burnt skiff
I haven't seen Athena for quite a while now.
hot yoke
It's a fricking singleplayer
The whole point of the game is self imposed challenge
Via the ||pact||
I've been playing lotta builds without athena builds for fun
Thats the fun in hades
Challenge yourself
foggy zephyr
but... Athena dash is not the strongest tho
thorny scroll
what you think is stronger
hot yoke
Why does the feeling of gimping yourself bother you?
odd jetty
Because if the game is balanced well, then all options are viable for different reasons.
hot yoke
It's singleplayer
You have to compete with no one
thorny scroll
because people like progressing vo1di
foggy zephyr
Artemis dash if you are looking for damage
burnt skiff
I wouldn't call it suboptimal.
hot yoke
It doesn't have to be balanced perfectly
odd jetty
Because it doesno't make sense to not pick the strongest option.
thorny scroll
you can argue it all you like but people like progressing in a feedback loop, and athena is very strong for new players to do so
that's justreality
odd jetty
And it feels bad to not pick what works
burnt skiff
Having a curse on the dash helped me get bigger damage, aside from weakening foes.
hot yoke
It wouldn't make sense in a competetive environment
odd jetty
pact is different.
thorny scroll
peopel won't pick weaker stuff just to challenge themselves
that's not how people player computer games in general
odd jetty
Because you're SELECTING the challenge. Not choosing from options where only one feels correct to use.
odd jetty
There's that saying.
thorny scroll
yeah many, the frost one is terrible
hot yoke
Noo
thorny scroll
hangover is sort of ok but its way easier to stack hangover with other skills
odd jetty
" players will optimize the fun out of your game if you let them"
odd jetty
I'm not even arguing that athena dash is OP.
burnt skiff
Not choosing from options where only one feels correct to use.
odd jetty
I'm just arguing in defense of nerfs. Because I don't like power creep.
hot yoke
Why am I arguing with the guy that wants to nerf health pickups and uses collar
odd jetty
When power creep runs rampant, game system interactivity suffers.
hot yoke
Two words: Beginners Trap
odd jetty
I don't use collar lol.
burnt skiff
It was quite fun, for example, today having Blade Rifts which pulled enemies.
odd jetty
It doesn't.
burnt skiff
By dashing around in circless I held them in and bashed them with fists.
odd jetty
I didn't say it does.
odd jetty
I'm responding to the notion that things shouldn't be nerfed, only buffed.
I'm not.
I'm not really talking about hades at all lol.
I'm talking about game design philosophy.
odd jetty
And how I've seen a "do buffs, no nerfs" ruin games for me.
daring oracle
I think there needs better balancing for some of the ||companions||
thorny scroll
but voldi like
hot yoke
But nerfs most of the time feel bad
thorny scroll
how many runs have u done
odd jetty
So I caution people that espouse that, because it's not always the best way of going about it.
thorny scroll
annd how many clears
hot yoke
I got 60 hours in the game
30 clears
Never said I'm an expert
odd jetty
Nerfs feel bad but overbuffing is a slow and insidious killer.
burnt skiff
Balancing should go both ways.
hot yoke
Guess we just talked past each other
odd jetty
I think we did.
hot yoke
Happens a lot to me
odd jetty
@burnt skiff Correct.
thorny scroll
im just saying voldi i got like 14 clears in 36 runs
and im running sub 25 consistently, last 2 runs are 22 mins
hot yoke
Congrats m8
thorny scroll
on heat 4
foggy zephyr
congrats?
thorny scroll
athena dash is broken af
hot yoke
It's not
burnt skiff
In your build, perhpas.
thorny scroll
what dash is better then
burnt skiff
But you can do the same with others, if you build around them.
hot yoke
Oh no poseidon dash so op
thorny scroll
maybe if you build aroudn them
hot yoke
Oh no merciful end so op
odd jetty
Senrab's point is that this is an example of the game handing wins to you and not presenting what appear to be viable alternatives. Hence, the game has allowed them to optimize the fun out of it.
thorny scroll
strong as hell
foggy zephyr
You aren't going to get far if you just punk Athena Dash on every run regardless of what other gods/builds you are going for
thorny scroll
athena dash is 1 point right
hot yoke
"point"
thorny scroll
how much damage do you think deflect on dash blocks
hot yoke
Boon
burnt skiff
But there are viable alternatives, Sieran.
hot yoke
Athena dash don't change your I frames
thorny scroll
but as strong?
burnt skiff
Yes.
thorny scroll
look just answer this
hot yoke
You just deflect
thorny scroll
what other boon
burnt skiff
It's how you use them.
thorny scroll
blocks as much damage
foggy zephyr
you do know dash naturally have invincible frames
thorny scroll
as athena dash
burnt skiff
Sure, it deflects
odd jetty
There are but when you math it out, athena's dash does kind of answer way too many threats for the investment, I do agree.
hot yoke
Athena dash DOESNT block more damage
burnt skiff
but you can have said deflect on cast/attack/special
hot yoke
It just throws it back
burnt skiff
which will do more damage as well
thorny scroll
deflect blocks damage
burnt skiff
and have wider area of effect
odd jetty
Senrab it doesn't.
hot yoke
It doesn't change your I frames
foggy zephyr
you get ZERO damage even with other dashes
odd jetty
It kills opponents quickly.
hot yoke
You would also dodge it if you dodges it without
odd jetty
Dash has an iframe by default.
burnt skiff
Yeah, that's dash - avoiding damage.
hot yoke
The damage is helpful
foggy zephyr
you do know about iframes right?
burnt skiff
Even if you stand in it.
daring oracle
Poseidon dash does some serious damage
odd jetty
But I don't think reflect should be so lethal to your attackers.
hot yoke
Your view about athena dash is factually wrong senrab
foggy zephyr
yeah Poseidon dashes are great
odd jetty
It feels disproportionate compared to other mechanics.
hot yoke
It's different on the attacks
daring oracle
You can do a whole run with nothing but Poseidon dash
odd jetty
Especially with someone like Tisephone (sp)
daring oracle
You can’t do the same with Athena
foggy zephyr
even Zeus dash is nice if you already have some other Zeus boons
odd jetty
Where it just answers her entirely.
hot yoke
I don't think nerfing athena dash is the way
thorny scroll
so here
it says on wiki
Many of Athena's boons add Deflect to your abilities. Deflect is a mechanic unique to Athena boons which allows an ability to repel projectiles and damage back at the attacker. A projectile hit with a Deflecting ability will be sent back towards the enemy who cast it, and deals a portion of the enemy's health instead of its base damage. A well timed Deflecting ability can also negate a melee attack, dealing damage to the attacker instead.
hot yoke
Zeus dash does crazy damage
thorny scroll
it negates melee damage
burnt skiff
Doesn't it depends also on enemy? Those ||casters in Elysium|| have powerful attack that is great to deflect... but do you kill the sword or spears with deflect?
thorny scroll
other dashes don't do that
foggy zephyr
you already negate damage if you dash properly
foggy zephyr
do you know about iframe or not?
odd jetty
It REFLECTS melee damage
hot yoke
YOUR DASH NATUARLLY NEGATES ATTACKS
odd jetty
The wiki is not correct.
thorny scroll
deflect negates mlee attacks
hot yoke
ITS CALLED INVINCIBILITY FRAMES
odd jetty
It is phrased wrong.
foggy zephyr
your dash is already invincible if you don't dash attack
odd jetty
The game has iframes on dash by default.
hot yoke
BECAUSE YOU ARE INVINCIBLE
hot yoke
Also the wiki is outdated
foggy zephyr
that wasn't your point
odd jetty
You can dash attack by default, too. It only allowr you to reflect melee attacks.
hot yoke
You literally never mentioned that until now senrav
burnt skiff
Can you, actually? Cause I think if you dash-strike, it can go through... unless I'm mistaken.
odd jetty
Which is nice, but not something athena's dash grants you.
hot yoke
Athena dash gives you a few more I frames on dash strike I think
thorny scroll
all i mentioned was athena dash negates a tonne of damage
and the wiki backs that up
hot yoke
Or rather you don't lose them
thorny scroll
while the deflect animation is up
foggy zephyr
you know wiki info is submitted by people like you and me right?
thorny scroll
you don't take damage
burnt skiff
Ah, yes, that would be it.
odd jetty
Reflect in general does @thorny scroll
burnt skiff
A few more, but still not enough if you are in a middle of several hits.
hot yoke
You said deflect blocks damage and other dashes dont
odd jetty
It's reflect that's a little strong, perhaps, compared to other mechanics you can select. Throughout the run. holistically.
hot yoke
Read your own points please
odd jetty
But you'll still get stomped by end boss if that's the only gimmick you bring to it.
foggy zephyr
Posideon/Zeus Dashs would probably do more damage
thorny scroll
zeus with athena is leagues apart from without
thorny scroll
he takes me 2x as long to do without athena dash
cos you have to be really careful about his last swing on his melee combo
foggy zephyr
uh
hot yoke
Oof
thorny scroll
or you need 3 dashes and have to time it well
burnt skiff
Well
foggy zephyr
you aren't playing on ||EM4|| right?
hot yoke
Then something's wrong with your builds
thorny scroll
what's em4
foggy zephyr
oh god
burnt skiff
😄
hot yoke
||extreme measures 4||
burnt skiff
Yakumomo, please don't spook me.
daring oracle
You only need one dash to dodge attach damage
thorny scroll
nah im only on heat 4
burnt skiff
I'm on 2 for now and I'm affraid what happens in later ones.
foggy zephyr
oh man
thorny scroll
so im on extreme measuress 2 + the shield on minions
odd jetty
Also important to note, in all this, that perfect balance is bad.
It makes for a boring game.
hot yoke
In singleplayer yup
foggy zephyr
@burnt skiff you are in for some fun with 4
leaden whale
^
foggy zephyr
even 3 is crazy with some ||pacts||
burnt skiff
I'm sure 3 will be already one way ticket to the House for me.
leaden whale
tbh 4 isnt that bad
hot yoke
I'm scared of 3 lol
burnt skiff
I'm on low level ||Pacts|| for now, cause still not enough clears.
odd jetty
But I do kinda agree that throughout an entire run, reflect brings SO MUCH MATHEMATICAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DEFENSE AND DAMAGE DEALT compared to other boons.
hot yoke
Theseus go brrrrr
leaden whale
||do EM and Jury summons||
hot yoke
Depends on the build imo
leaden whale
||theseus EM is actually better then normal for me||
hot yoke
Aphrodite f.e. gives you way more raw damage
And you won't be able to reflect everything reliably
odd jetty
IDK I just can't see poseidon knockbacks handling the projectiles that get thrown your way in as much of a clean way.
thorny scroll
im currently trying to unlock the lvl 4 aspects
hot yoke
It does make a huge difference in the witches mini boss
thorny scroll
but it's not working
odd jetty
Yeah that's what I was thinking.
burnt skiff
By perfect balance I mean nothing is out of other leagues and everything can give you interesting ways to do things.
hot yoke
There's a pinned comment in #h1-story-discussion
foggy zephyr
it still depends on what build you are going for, I'm not going out of my way to get Athena Dash when other boons are more beneficial
hot yoke
foggy zephyr
melee, sure. I'm not getting it for Bow or Railgun
odd jetty
I think I might be putting too much weight on Tis and witches when thinking about reflect.
burnt skiff
I mean - if you are good, you could deal with whole game without any upgrades.
odd jetty
But it does completely trivialize those encounters.
burnt skiff
¯_(ツ)_/¯
odd jetty
Which idk. I think is fine?
burnt skiff
I would say it's fine.
odd jetty
But melee without reflect is so much harder for those that it feels bad to not have it.
burnt skiff
Well, I didn't see everything, so I might be wrong.
But still I would say things are balanced now.
Some things are easier to do, sure.
hot yoke
Yeah but witches are a hell without reflect lol
burnt skiff
But Blade Rifts can be great.
hot yoke
Love hunting blades
burnt skiff
I mean - ||Champions of Elysium|| got shredded today by it.
odd jetty
I think reflect damage should do like 70% damage or something.
hot yoke
Too op
Trivialized redacted
Kappa
foggy zephyr
spam your companion at witches
odd jetty
I think it needs something light.
thorny scroll
@odd jetty melee without reflect is still ok for me until about act 3/4
dense peak
Is it normal for Coronacht to go for a specific enchantment during the run?
burnt skiff
You kinda always do
odd jetty
I haven't gotten far enough in to unlock those.
hot yoke
@thorny scroll you should really try out other attack boons
burnt skiff
Which depends on your options or idea what you want to build.
leaden whale
hmm
thorny scroll
atm I have tried crit/hangover/doom/knockback
I will admit I avoid zeus boons like the plague
odd jetty
@dense peak Twin Strike is popular for damage, from daedalus.
hot yoke
Machine bow
thorny scroll
anyone like the chaos shield? I liked it on my first few clears
odd jetty
It makes you a melee bow big damage boom boom.
thorny scroll
but now i think the damage is awful
hot yoke
Love chaos
thorny scroll
its so slow tho :/
hot yoke
Fully upgraded with poseidon build
Wtf
You playing it wrong
Chaos shield everything but slow
dense peak
Melee weapons are gonna be rough for me, definitely.
hot yoke
Bull rush - shotgun throw repeat
odd jetty
Alright I paused my run to ask a question and got sucked into a debate.
thorny scroll
u crit for 900
odd jetty
Bye all.
thorny scroll
bye man
odd jetty
Lol
hot yoke
Me too
thorny scroll
its better for clearing smaller mobs but for bossing its terrible
thorny scroll
yeah
hot yoke
Had a different experience
foggy zephyr
Chaos is regarded as one of the best Aspects at high heat tier even after the launch change
hot yoke
It's easier to hit all the shields with the bosses bigger hitbox
thorny scroll
then u need to go up close
hot yoke
Literally blocks everything
foggy zephyr
you don't need to fully charge it
hot yoke
Or almost
thorny scroll
i liked shield the most on my first couple clears
but now i like the spear/gloves too much
my worst is the sword
don't know why but im terrible with it
the combo feels clunky af
hot yoke
I find spear boring
4th sword aspect and poseidon are poggers
Have to try nemesis
Apparently also very good
hot yoke
Bruh
thorny scroll
i have 0 unlocked tier 4 aspects
foggy zephyr
nemesis is just free 30% critical
hot yoke
I'm 60+
thorny scroll
ahhh
hot yoke
I got all aspects lol
hot yoke
As I said there's a pinned comment in #h1-story-discussion
thorny scroll
will check it
foggy zephyr
read the pinned messages in #h1-story-discussion on how to unlock them
hot yoke
Rng dialogue
It's all rng dialogue
Welcome to hades aka nyx didn't show up so I'll guess imma do 5 more runs
jolly quartz
I'm now on a 10 win streak. Dunno what weapon to use next. Still haven't gotten half of the 4th aspects. And I'm about to hit 60 runs.
hot yoke
Have you been using the same weapon or what
As I said there's a pinned comment in #h1-story-discussion
@hot yoke
^
hot yoke
Same
Also for the boss rewards
And you've been ||turning up the heat||?
Maybe ask in #h1-builds-and-combat for different options
There's a lot
blissful violet
Can you change the hotkey for your special? Q just isn't working for me, it's too close to movement keys
hot yoke
You can change it in options
blissful violet
ok thanks
jolly quartz
I have mine as right click.
hot yoke
Controls
foggy zephyr
you can rebind everything, special is right click while cast is side mouse button
blissful violet
yeah right click makes more sense to me.
hot yoke
Maybe get all your weapons up to the same heat
That's what I've been doing
Rebind everything to right click
Galaxy brain
jolly quartz
Lol.
I have dash and the usual movement on my keyboard. Then everything else is on my side house buttons as I have six of them.
jolly quartz
I don't have that option. Probably would've done so if I did. But at this point I'm used to keyboard and mouse.
thorny scroll
fated persuasion or authority?
hot yoke
Authority
thorny scroll
just reset mirror
fiery presence looks better for speedrunning but not as good for bossing
hot yoke
Used persuasion before but I find ||rerolling for the right boons more important||
thorny scroll
think i will stick with shadow
hot yoke
Since you can't reroll blue into yellow rooms
thorny scroll
mm
hot yoke
Fiery presence is only good for speedrunning
And I think even there it's not really used
jolly quartz
I've been using persuasion for awhile myself.
hot yoke
Been finding it lack luster myself
hot yoke
Also I'm legacy club all the way
thorny scroll
thing is i wont have enough darkness for legacy
only 10%
cud stick to pride for now
ah its 250
wud be like 8%
jolly quartz
I use mostly the purple side. I think I use maybe three or four green ones.
thorny scroll
man i think i need to darkness farm
and stop running heat for a while
i dont get much darkness atm
jolly quartz
I almost have my mirror maxed.
hot yoke
Got 4 greens
But I switch blood and soul depending on if I'm doing a cast run or not
thorny scroll
mine is empty in bottom row
jolly quartz
Talk to ||Chaos|| and get the boon that gives you more darkness. I've easily made over 1000 per run doing that.
thorny scroll
think im just gna darkness farm
wait
ahh
ok from his chamber
i thought you meant keepsake fo a moment
hot yoke
||Heat 0||, dark thirst, chaos
thorny scroll
dark thirst?
thorny scroll
ahh yeah
hot yoke
Also there's a boon from poseidon that gives you more darkness
thorny scroll
dont know what boon to go with, normally i go for poseidon/ares/athena as boon#1
keepsake*
what do you use for running fast?
hot yoke
Poseidon cause you want the darkness noon
Boon
After that switch to whatever
It's ||Heat 0|| anyways
thorny scroll
,,
mm*
do the keepsakes force xgod each act
or just once per run
so if i keep the keepsake for 2nd act will i get another forced poseidon spawn
because i like knockback
jolly quartz
Welp took a nap, time to play some more instead of drawing like a I should wooo!
jolly quartz
Not technically yet. But that's the plan. Rona kinda messed up the pacing of some things.
Just getting in practice. Starting to play around with backgrounds more now. As I've focused mostly on characters for the past three years.
hot yoke
Oof
Would've thought rona would at least give more time
Also work at home etc
Drawings way outta my league xD
light flame
between the first 3 shield aspects does one stand above the rest?
hot yoke
Hmm
I mean I'm a big fan of chaos as I said infinite times xD
But you need to fully upgrade it
jolly quartz
Lol. It definitely takes time. But I've been making huge leaps as of late which has been satisfying as I was stagnant for awhile. Finally have a art style I enjoy too. Then Hades happened and I've been distracted by it for the past week lol. Still trying to get at least an hour of art in a day though.
hot yoke
Sound hella awesome
Yeah hades drains me too
In a good way I guess
Haven't been enjoying something so much in a long time
It's good to have a regimen
Would you call your pic your art style?
Cause it looks really smooth
jolly quartz
It's definitely the first rogue like that had held me for so long.
Yes, that was drawn by me.
hot yoke
Awesome!!!
Btw I'm playing 4th aspect bow with artemis attack, twin shot and bouncing shot
The attack takes forever to charge but it basically one shots groups of exalteds
hot yoke
Although I imagine it's hard earning money with commissions in such a crowded market
You oughta be picked up by someone with some reach ig
Big number=fun
jolly quartz
I hope to one day work on games as a character concept artist. But gotta get my foot in the door first before all that.
May do a bow build now.
hot yoke
As long as you progress to a refined enough level it's just about applying to a regular position I'd assume
My 4th aspect yada yada is fun on H4
jolly quartz
Don't have the 4th for bow unfortunately. Only the shield, sword, and spear.
hot yoke
I finally got through all of them
After nyx cucked me hard on sword
jolly quartz
Do I need to be using them in order to be given them?
hot yoke
I don't think so
I have gotten them without
jolly quartz
Alright. Guess I'm just getting unlucky.
hot yoke
Just hades "rng dialogue" the game
fossil quarry
Quick Question -- if your attack has doom and your special has doom will that stack? or can there be only one doom at a time and that's dumb to have a build with both (shield run)
daring oracle
It depends on the step you’re on
Read the requirements in #h1-story-discussion
@fossil quarry it stacks IF you have the boon to stack doom
fossil quarry
oooh i didn't know there was one for that -- what god gives that
daring oracle
Where it will only add around 16 per stack
I believe the same the gives any doom: Ares
fossil quarry
makes sense
One other question -- and might not be so quick. I've searched for a good answer to this but i've seen answers all over the place. I'm scared to spend my titan blood as i don't want to waste the first 6 on something that you need to fully level to make it useful
Is there a safe -- "first purchase" for blood
daring oracle
I liked the bow 2nd aspect
You hit with attack and then the special homes in on the marked target
At low levels, you don’t have a bunch of arrows for special (3) but then you add one per level up to 7
It melts bosses like the Furies or Hydra and the arrows wrap around corners too
It depends on which weapon(s) you like using and which you don’t.
fossil quarry
i like the bow -- but usually when it's in the rapid fire mode
i've had the most success with shield -- ||got to phase 2 of hades....||
only one i've struggled hard with is the sword
hot yoke
You need to level the bow tho
Also the boss name is a spoiler
daring oracle
Shield was a good first clear for me
hot yoke
Please spoiler tag
daring oracle
Also ||phase 2||
hot yoke
Yes that too
You spoiler tag by ||
On both sides of what your writing
Chaos shield and chiron bow are nice
They require leveling tho
fossil quarry
sorry..wasn't sure that needed a tag
yeah -- i guess that's what i was thinking about those two -- i saw the bow and shield ones were good but required a lot of investment to "be good"
hot yoke
In new players anything end/post game need to be tagged
hollow yarrow
yeah -- i guess that's what i was thinking about those two -- i saw the bow and shield ones were good but required a lot of investment to "be good"
@fossil quarry ||zeus shield|| dont need so much investment to be good.
hot yoke
I guess the hera aspect doesn't necessarily need to be leveled up
But it's for cast builds
Zeus shield is very niche tho
You have to like it
It's a very different playstyle
foggy zephyr
Nemesis Sword is good even at level 1, 15% crit
hollow yarrow
But it's not as exciting imo
@hot yoke in end its damage 30. attack do same damage and on AoE. its like 2 zags do damage.
hot yoke
It's more damage
hot yoke
I like weapons that "completely" change gameplay style
hollow yarrow
||Zeus shield|| do this. you need manage him like your self.
daring oracle
||Gyan Yu|| was a night and day difference
fossil quarry
thx for all the advice -- since you've been so helpful -- one more question i haven't quite figured out
do boons that give you bonus attack affect both attack and dash-strike?
or just attack only
hollow yarrow
or just attack only
@fossil quarry Attack work on attack and Dash-attack. special work on special and dash-special(if posible to weapon)
fossil quarry
ok great -- thx
hot yoke
There are certain that only work for dash tho
thick plinth
umbral flame
are you familiar with roguelites?
thorny scroll
@daring oracle you think Gyan Yu is good?
umbral flame
is it ever explained ingame what the charge attack for that does, because i didnt even know about it until someone mentioned it here
thorny scroll
whats the dmg like tho?
daring oracle
I’ll check after my run
thorny scroll
atm im just spamming aspect of hades
you get like 190% enhanced dmg on your attacks wit 0 boons
celest pebble
||Gyan Yu|| was a night and day difference
@daring oracle what does the || Guan Yu || aspect actually do/change? I've only read that it ||drops your health a bunch|| but other than that I haven't seen anyone actually say what it does/changes
hollow yarrow
is it ever explained ingame what the charge attack for that does, because i didnt even know about it until someone mentioned it here
@umbral flame please read description of weapon.
thorny scroll
anyone ever had their rewards reset?
im up to heat 3/4 on all my weapons, just did a 0 heat run
and got diamond+blood+ambrosia etc
wanted darkness
either that or i went straight into heat 1 without realising
looking now and it's same on some other weapons - seems i went straight into heat 1 on lots of them and didnt do a clear on normal
hollow yarrow
||reward dont reset.you just need complet run (kill hades) to open heat. and every heat count give same revards like zero heat. each weapon have differet reward set||
near sail
slams head on desk
I literally had || Hades on his 2nd hp bar...5% ||
and I die due to the AOE SPEAR
daring oracle
Oof
thorny scroll
I messed up a run earlier cos of the witches ;/
near sail
Just like, AAA
I literally almost had him, I had a perfect build
but I can't dodge his aoe spear.
thorny scroll
that's why i always run deflect on dash
it's because of the timing
by the time you dash in you need to dash out
but it's bigger than dash range so it still catches you
if you get athena boon for dash it wont hurt you
thorny scroll
I legit lost more life on a run a min ago to act 2 witches than I do in a normal hades fight
witches with no deflect are a pain
too many projectiles
near sail
yep
2 runs now have I actually gotten close to beating || Hades ||
but I ran out of lives
daring oracle
@celest pebble ||Aspect Of Guan Yu : your special only goes forward and doesn’t need to be recalled. Your spin attack launches a projectile spin attack that steals life. Your max health is limited to 30/35/40/45/50% health, which even applies to extra health you get in the dungeon or from your keepsake. Your attack combo is slower but does more damage per attack||
celest pebble
thanks 🙂
once i figure out how to unlock it (i think im sort of on my way there) i'll give it a go
daring oracle
It involves ||having all the weapons|| and ||unlocking 6 aspects besides Zagreus|| and then talking to ||Achilles||
celest pebble
||I've read that it's 6 titans blood spent and a conversation with Achilles - but is that 6 titans blood spent total or 6 spent specifically on the spear?||
yep ok then im definitely on my way there
daring oracle
You can double check in the #h1-story-discussion pinned message
celest pebble
though what do you mean ||unlocking... besides Zagreas? Is Zagreus just the basic weapon unlock?||
daring oracle
Then you have to fight the final boss once after you have all that
near sail
Also another question
I got a lot of gifts for Dusa but there's a lock on the heart
What do I give her to unlock the next part?
daring oracle
Do a bunch of renovations from the contractor that are under the lounge category
near sail
Thanks o/
restive spoke
||I've read that it's 6 titans blood spent and a conversation with Achilles - but is that 6 titans blood spent total or 6 spent specifically on the spear?||
@celest pebble ||I think it’s 5 blood into any spear aspect||
||and talk to achilles||
near sail
My heart can't take fighting || Hades||, man DX
rustic idol
I’ve only ||gotten to hades once so far, and that’s because the Daedalus hammer gave me cursed blade. Then hades murdered me.||
woeful ivy
go spear if you're having trouble.
rustic idol
Any particular reason why?
woeful ivy
easier to win with in my opinion. also one of the hammers is amazing.
Flurry Jab is broken.
iron fractal
Am I supposed to be getting Meg multiple times? I've defeated her 3 times in a row now ???
rustic idol
That’s normal in the beginning.
iron fractal
Thanks for confirmation. I'm obsessed with the spear. Scared to use anything else
woeful ivy
spear is amazing no cap
rustic idol
Huh, guess I just need to get used to it.
I’ve been liking the sword and the fists so far.
woeful ivy
think of it as a bow with better fire rate
Spear can be broken if you get like flurry jab, deflector, and a good amount of dmg
iron fractal
I like Ares and the Heart
rustic idol
Oh. OH.
woeful ivy
and if you get flurry jav
jab
think about it
like 3 jabs per 2 seconds
3 reflects per 2 seconds
rustic idol
woeful ivy
and the hitbox lingers for a second too
If you have the ability to, get increased attack speed and dash damage
lime ocean
Deadly flourish with 20% crit and +92% damage, or Divine flourish with 171% damage?
I'm with fists
pastel cipher
what other boons do you have?
lime ocean
deflect ain't gonna do much, but which is bigger damage 😄
none 😄
well, slothful ambush
not really relevant?
pastel cipher
if you have ares on attack take athena special
woeful ivy
divine.
pastel cipher
take it and hope for ares attack
woeful ivy
higher dps I think
lime ocean
kk thanks!
thorn quarry
I've been slowly trying to complete my prophecy list, and for Charon shop, does getting Defiance need you to be missing a death defiance to appear?
potent merlin
Man the rail is a whole different story with lightning strike ⚡️
paper imp
Yes @thorn quarry
scarlet moat
Just started playing and unlocked the trader, he has a one time offer of 1 Titans blood for 200 gems, is it worth?
pastel cipher
It's not worth it at all
scarlet moat
Alright thanks
pastel cipher
The deal that's worth it imo (after you've unlocked all the weapons and the mirror) is 15 keys for 1 titan blood
lime ocean
why gems aren't worth it? Later they are worthless and titan blood never is
pastel cipher
Yes, that deal is, you lose a titan blood and get 200 gems
Which is a terrible trade for you
pastel cipher
Or in general
scarlet moat
Also is there any good starting weapon I should aim for when I probably still don't have much unlocked?
pastel cipher
You're all good :3
harsh leaf
Sword and shield are both easy to use
pastel cipher
Shield is the safe option but play around with what you have whilst you unlock the other weapons
harsh leaf
All weapons are good though, just play around until you get the hang of 'em
scarlet moat
Funny I've just got the shield and feel like I'm playing much more recklessly than I was with the bow
harsh leaf
Dark Thirst can also really help out at the start when an extra bit of darkness really matters
So it pays to stay flexible
scarlet moat
What is it?
harsh leaf
When a weapon has a purple glow, picking it will give you a buff that grants you +20% darkness in the run
After each run, the glow jumps to another random weapon
scarlet moat
Ah nice, that'll give me a reason to vary I guess
thorn quarry
I'm indecisive, so I always just pick the thirsty weapon. I know it's just luck, but it seems to just alternate between Lance, Shield and Gun for me so I might just choose as I want.
hard lichen
any tips on beating thesus? i've always kept dying when facing one on one with him 
harsh leaf
Gotta be aware which direction his shield is pointing
Remember to dash perpendicular to him when he throws the spear, and careful with it on the way back
You get used to the moments he's vulnerable, mainly when he's walking to change positions or just after attacking
rugged inlet
Also have to get used to the timing on the spear throw. The reticle turns red just as he's about to throw it - and don't forget that he recalls it as well and it does damage on the way back too
hard lichen
ahhh, alright! i'll definitely keep those in mind, thanks for the advice
gaunt jungle
for theseus the tricky part is after he invokes a god, but the area of effect abilities it spawns usually have a set pattern
and a lot of them have safe zones at the arena edge so you can avoid the worst of it
maiden quail
Should I buy kiss of Styx if I have stubborn roots or just play?
wise ivy
IMO Kiss of Styx is always worth buying
rugged inlet
^ When you can afford it
iron fractal
OK, hold up -- what's up with the shield? The special is op broken af
shield special + backstab = omg
obsidian locust
Not OP but really good, yes
daring oracle
The charge attack is more OP
obsidian locust
It's really good yes
thorn quarry
Shield special is a really safe option and works well with quite a bit
So I would say it can feel OP for beginners
Not that OP though
obsidian locust
Nothing in this game is OP
rugged inlet
||Except bow special||
obsidian locust
Nothing in this game is OP
plain sand
How many death defiances can u have at one time?
wise ivy
3 from mirror
1 from ||skelly keepsake||
and i think ||chaos boon|| can give one?
so hypothetically five
usually 3-4 depending on loadout
plain sand
Also what happens if u give multiple nectars to the gods/goddesses?
Do u get extra rewards?
lime ocean
about aspects ||Do I need to have the bow/fists/shield/gun on me when I talk to artemis/minotaur/chaos/zeus in order to unlock the latest one|| ?
rugged inlet
Giving nectars progresses relationships. You get more story and lore, sometimes extra prophecies
latent basalt
I swear the golden pottery shines brighter after I've left the room
rugged inlet
You do get extra rewards eventually
plain sand
Giving nectars progresses relationships. You get more story and lore, sometimes extra prophecies
@rugged inlet I misread that as "You get more story and love" I was like hold up lol
pulsar frigate
you don’t need the weapon on you to get the matching unlock phrase
spare quiver
Ok I thought I knew the answer to this but my test says otherwise. Does 2 stacks of the SAME status active privelaged status?
rugged inlet
You do get more love too, in a way
versed dune
@lime ocean || chaos and asterius both have lines that will trigger when talking to them with the weapon; once those lines have been said you can talk with any weapon for a chance at the keyphrase||
plain sand
zoo wee mama You do? This game does have everything
lime ocean
you don’t need the weapon on you to get the matching unlock phrase
@pulsar frigate ||funny enough, just after I asked, Artemis triggered the phrase without the weapons :d ||
spare quiver
Im using the ||gun|| and shoot a few times, then pause and shoot again but it's still showing the base 10dmg
paper imp
If I use aspect of || nemesis || and press special twice within 3 seconds, does it stack the critical chance or stay at the regular value
spare quiver
Does it have to be 2 different status effects?
rugged inlet
@spare quiver It has to be two different effects
pulsar frigate
the crit chance doesn’t stack for nemesis, you’re just refreshing the timer
rugged inlet
E.G. Weak and Doom
maiden quail
Thanks all for the tips i completed my first run with my sword even though its very difficult using the sword.
spare quiver
@rugged inlet damn it! That's what I initially thought, so I was using the alt version of this. Then I think I saw it on a youtube vid or something that made it seem like it could be same status, so I switched. Now I was initially right! I've been needing myself lol
Thanks for your answer
That seems too difficult to reliable proc then. I'll stick with the alt ability
rugged inlet
Well, pretty much every god has their own status effect, so it's easier than it might seem
You just need a bit of luck to get the right boons
spice thistle
if you use fated persuasion, can you get a duo?
rugged inlet
if you reroll, you mean? Yes, you can
spice thistle
ok, thx
spare quiver
@rugged inlet true. I guess I'll consider that since I do swap my abilities per weapon
@spice thistle I have done it, with a duo I've already had. I don't know if that might be a pre req since you're past the dialogue box and first time duos enable dialogue
versed dune
That seems too difficult to reliable proc then. I'll stick with the alt ability
Yeah the alt for that is just more consistent damage
spice thistle
ah ya thats what i was asking
ive rolled a duo into a duo, but not sure about a nothing into a duo
versed dune
a constant +25% to everything on most runs (more if you use keepsakes) compared to +40% only with a specific build, that also has an uptime instead of being permanent
rugged inlet
Well, it kinda depends on playstyle. If you go for a build where you focus on one god to get legendaries, then you won't get much benefit from that skill
versed dune
For specific builds I could see status being better, but it most circumstances it’s not
rugged inlet
that 40% is pretty easy to activate if at least one of your boons is either Dionysus, Aphrodite or Demeter
plain sand
How many runs does it take for the average person to beat hades?
versed dune
depends on a lot of things but from the people I’ve seen talk about their first win, probably 30+
rugged inlet
Idk what the average is, but my first clear was at 18
I'm pretty seasoned at roguelikes, though
plain sand
yea I am 30+ and I dont usually play roguelikes
this game is pretty fun tho
the struggle
on the second zone
with the lava
maiden quail
Mine is 45 its my second roguelike my first is Dead cells
lyric forge
Unless you are running heavy Artemis it's usually fairly trivial to get two status curses rolling. I run Priv Status with just about anything these days unless I know I'm gunning for Arty.
versed dune
General roguelike skills won’t be too much help, id say gungeon would transfer most cause of similar dodge mechanics, but skills from games with combat similar to hades would help a ton
golden bluff
Mine was 26th
versed dune
Unless you are running heavy Artemis it's usually fairly trivial to get two status curses rolling. I run Priv Status with just about anything these days unless I know I'm gunning for Arty.
Eh, I don’t find a lot of the curses worth putting on your attack or special, so they won’t be up consistently without extra effort
lyric forge
Unless it's Arty you can easily get one from the attack / special and the dash.
versed dune
I avoid chill, hangover, and doom like the plague (unless using exagryph than I’ll go for hangover attack a lot)
lyric forge
Aphro and Demeter come with one already pre-equipped without any further issues. Dio too, Ares technically as well but his is very unreliable.
It's super easy to get an essentially permanent status curse for Poseidon and Athena.
Zeus is the only iffy one as his gets used up.
versed dune
True, I’d still rather not have to worry about that and just have the damage always on
On average it’s a 15% loss, not a huge deal
lyric forge
I'd rather put in a little bit of effort and get the big damage.
versed dune
15%, big damage
lyric forge
Because it's generally super easy to do.
versed dune
plus you can lessen the gap with keepsakes
lyric forge
Or I can equip things like the hourglass and stack on top of that.
versed dune
hourglass
lyric forge
Again, Family Favorites is not a bad pick but for the vast majority of the runs I do it's fairly trivial to stack two curses, often times that even comes automatically without me having to do anything, so I run Priv Status. Unless it's Arty because man is Hunter's Mark ever unreliable for that.
rich kernel
I just beat the final boss twice back to back, about 35ish attempts in. Once with magnetic twin fists, once with chaos shield
FeelsGoodMan
lyric forge
Congratz!
versed dune
Again, Family Favorites is not a bad pick but for the vast majority of the runs I do it's fairly trivial to stack two curses, often times that even comes automatically without me having to do anything, so I run Priv Status. Unless it's Arty because man is Hunter's Mark ever unreliable for that.
It’s definitely just a preference thing, as almost all the mirror buffs are
drifting path
So after you complete the game does it seem like there is still a lot of new dialogue or does that get boring ?
rugged inlet
First clear is only the beginning
I'm over 100 runs and over 50 clears in, and still getting some new dialogue
versed dune
Yeah first final boss kill just unlocks the actual game
thorn quarry
There is enough new dialogue people complain about the new dialogue blocking out other conversations they're waiting for
drifting path
Oh that's fire. This is a game that just keeps on giving. God I hope they bring some updates too it and make it insane
versed dune
we can dream but they probably won’t
since it’s based off mythology there’s tons of content to work with too
thorn stratus
Aww man, made it all the way to the ground floor. How do you get rid of the poison effect from the rats?
thorn stratus
Does it pretty much just kill you no matter what if you're stuck in the room?
heavy tapir