h1-story-discussion

[merry rivet]

15 ambrosia for the homie

Also bone the skeleton

[iron swift]

DLC idea #1: skellygreus

[stuck kettle]

Oh god Nyx would throw a fit

I wonder how Charon would feel about that 😂

Wait doesn't Darren Korb voice both of them? That would probably be fun to record

[atomic forge]

Gonna hard disagree that Than is out of Zag's league. Than is awful to everyone except his direct superiors, Hades and Nyx, for about 70% of his dialogue, and he only tones down what a jerk he is through Zagreus' influence.

Without their fates being inexorably linked by being the gods of life and death, Than would be getting the Theseus treatment, and rightfully so.

[tiny sequoia]

He's cold but is he really mean?

[lavish flame]

He's just emotionally repressed for understandable reasons

Plus he hot

[merry rivet]

Yeah I dont think he is mean. Idk i think its just my strong Than supporting in me

Gay for Than. I might be a little biased

[tiny sequoia]

... imagine a than and theseus story swap

it wouldn't be poetic or anythign but i think it would be funny for spear man to show up randomly and help you out

[atomic forge]

So the first time Than shows up, he goes in on Zag for not saying goodbye before he left.

Which, you know, that's on Zag. But Zagreus apologizes rather quickly (because he's polite like that), and then Than spends the next few visits ripping into Zagreus for how much trouble he's getting Thanatos into.

For the help he's providing that Zagreus didn't ask for, and that he's told Than to stop providing if it's getting him into trouble.

But it remains Zag's fault until you throw enough Nectar at Than to get him to lighten up.

[fierce estuary]

true

[atomic forge]

Megaera is cold at the start of the game.

Thanatos is mean.

[fierce estuary]

sounds like tsundere girls in harem anime lol

[atomic forge]

Yeah, and I hate every time I read it.

It's abusive.

I'm not saying Than is a serial abuser, but his behavior at the start of his story arc is awful to Zagreus.

It's two steps removed from "Why did you make me hit you?"

[atomic forge]

There's no character change, though. Theseus comes in "Have at thee, daemon!" every time but he just keeps missing Zag and destroying Shades.

[tiny sequoia]

hehehe, that would be an interesting encounter actually

[ruby schooner]

Here's the thing about Than: his loyalties are divided between Zag and the House. So he feels torn in two, and since he doesn't know why Zag is rebelling, he doesn't understand his motivations. Meg doesn't let her feelings get in the way of doing her job: Than does, which is why he both helps Zag and is chilly towards him. I have little doubt that he overextends himself to help the things and people he really cares about, and when you put in that much effort for someone, you generally feel a bit of resentment when it seems that others don't pay you in kind, especially if you don't know why they APPEAR to be taking you for granted

[drowsy mason]

Thanatos is the best with achilles

[hard rose]

and that's why I maxed hearts with Dusa first

[merry rivet]

But.. But why would you do that?

Thats soo much ambrosia for your first person

[hard rose]

I went ham in the gods pre-credits so I got a ton of ambrosia

Like I still have... 6? With nobody to give to

[static igloo]

Convert to titan blood

[hard rose]

got all aspects already

[lapis elk]

All max level?

[static igloo]

Then suffer in excess

[hard rose]

LOL

not maxed yet but not much of a rush

[merry rivet]

Max out like one of every weapon

[hard rose]

What for though

I'm still doing low heat for loot

Also I don't like tsunderes

[tiny sequoia]

Convert to diamonds, buy all the songs

:P

[hard rose]

Already bought all the ones I liked LOL

at the phase of gently tapping on the contractor table waiting for Achilles' contract to show up

[stuck kettle]

Dude I love Than but he is mean.

He does the whole "I'm above talking to the help" thing with Dusa because mommy told him to

Zag was a jerk and 100% deserved a lot of the gruffiness he got from Than early game though but why be like that to Dusa lol

[atomic forge]

Again, hard disagree.

[stuck kettle]

I mean "I'm leaving forever and not even telling you or saying bye" is the kind of slight that doesn't get patched up just because of an apology

I think Than sees it less as helping Zag reach the surface and more not wanting to sit by and just watch him get hurt and die over and over. Like surely Than must be acutely aware every time Zag gets taken by the Styx, and regardless of how he feels about his work, that can't exactly be easy

Hence the tsundere I'm helping but I don't want to thing

[static igloo]

I can't tell if Zeus actually forgot about Persephone or is playing dumb about the whole thing.

Cause I got the impression he knew, but whenever I grab one of his boons and he talks about Demeter, he acts like he has no idea

[tiny sequoia]

He doesn't know you know

[stuck kettle]

Well, he doesn't know where she is now but he knows that he dropped her off in the underworld to marry Hades

[atomic forge]

So now Zag is responsible for Thanatos' behavior, or it's his fault Than is being breathtakingly unprofessional? Than glosses over Zagreus not saying goodbye rather quickly once he's apologized, actually, and spends the rest of the majority of his dialogue chewing Zagreus out over how much trouble he's in, helping Zagreus, despite Zagreus telling him repeatedly to stop.

If a McDonald's drive-thru worker keeps upgrading my fries to a large and then chews me out every time I come back because of how much trouble they're in, I'm going to stop going to the McDonald's with the abusive employee.

Unfortunately Zagreus both is unable to get away ordinarily and is linked to Thanatos by the Fates.

[tiny sequoia]

it is pretty weird that the heart unlocking dialogue with thanatos is when he realizes he trusts zag

like, jeez, couldn't have figured that out sooner?

"I will still help you but now it's not because i pity you"

[stuck kettle]

Than glosses over it, but it gets brought back up later- Than avoiding discussing what is actually bothering him is pretty in-character, and considering he straight up offers to be thrown into Tartarus over it, I'm not sure I really buy that that's what he's upset over

Also it's not like their relationship is a professional one to begin with, nor is it as trivial as just giving him extra fries. He just doesn't want Zag to get hurt over and over

[atomic forge]

It still comes back to Thanatos treating Zagreus poorly and unfairly.

Meg minces exactly zero words when it comes to her problems with Zagreus, and everything in-game largely vindicates her.

Thanatos feeling hurt and betrayed over Zagreus leaving is 110% valid.

It's his best friend and potentially eventual lover leaving, and he didn't say goodbye.

But to come back time and time again only to attack Zagreus verbally, especially over Thanatos' own actions at that point, makes Than the bad guy in this situation.

If he had said almost anything else I wouldn't have such a problem with him.

But to ream Zagreus over and over how much trouble he is in with Hades takes away any justification he had from the initial hurt of not being told that Zag was leaving.

He needs to own his actions.

[stuck kettle]

He does, eventually, it just requires some character development for him to get there

[atomic forge]

Yes, and it requires Zagreus' involvment.

So how is Zagreus the jerk in this situation?

[stuck kettle]

I never said he was aside from him leaving without saying anything in the first place 🤷‍♀️

[atomic forge]

I'm sorry, I may have misunderstood something, then.

I thought you said that Zagreus earned Than's gruffness.

He certainly earned a cold shoulder, but he didn't earn Than's continued antagonism over what Than has chosen to do himself.

[stuck kettle]

In the beginning yeah

[atomic forge]

I'm confused now, so you agree with me? Thanatos took his hurt about Zagreus leaving way too far?

[open finch]

There are like some people who have made pieces on Than's exact deal (or at least their interpretations of it), and to each their own, but I reread parts of the pair's interactions, and Than, after a while, seems less stung about Zag not saying goodbye, rather not truly understanding why he was leaving in the first place.

From Than's perspective, being someone that isn't in the house that often anymore, Zag is still an immature Prince who means well, but doesn't appreciate the freedom in the lack of responsibilities that he has. I say immature, as many characters (Zag himself) note how much he's matured (specifically emotionally) as the game progresses.

Than isn't at the house to see the way Hades treated Zag (though he probably saw snippets), and it's implied that Zag wasn't that close with most members of the house to confide in the parts that we see (his resentment towards his dad's cruelty and the feelings of inadequacy, as well as general loneliness)

There's like a ton of dialogue where it becomes clear that Thanatos doesn't understand, so Zag's escapes (and the trouble it's causing the Underworld on a whole) seems unbalanced. But he does really care about Zagreus and figures (at least over time) that it must really mean a lot to him (hence his minor argument with Hades).

There's a piece of dialogue between him and Zag late-game where he scolds Zag for getting between Orpheus and Euridyce, and at the end, he apologies to Zag, stating that he...hmmm imma go look for the dialogue to make absolutely sure

it's essay hours ;-;

[atomic forge]

I remember that piece decently, actually.

He apologizes for the level of "Zag, what the hell do you think you're doing interfering?" but Zagreus agrees that it could have blown up terribly.

Zagreus apologizes to Orpheus and Eurydice there, as well.

[stuck kettle]

Than gets on his case about meddling in other people's affairs unbidden and more or less tells him he's lucky it turned out well but that intruding like that is just as likely to make things worse for everyone, which is a totally legitimate complaint, and I think the writer wanted to make a point to the player about how making yourself part of someone's issues isn't always welcome or good

[atomic forge]

I wholly agree with Than here.

"You have a ship called the Qwib-Qwib?" energy does not belong everywhere.

[stuck kettle]

Which zag then takes a totally different approach with achilles and pat and waits until Achilles gives him a clear go ahead before messing with their contract

Idk, Than seems pretty content with his work; he obviously takes pride in it and is dedicated to his job. I don't think he would argue that Zag doesn't appreciate his freedom so much as he feels frustrated that Zag isn't doing anything productive and is, again, running away from his responsibilities as prince, though Than's whole tone changes when Zag says he's staying, which makes me think it was the leaving (Than) forever that was the main issue.

[open finch]

I do agree with you on the responsibilities aspect, I say freedom as freedom of choice but that goes into something entirely separate.
But yes, I do think that leaving forever was a large part in his hurt, I was just adding to the why he picked at Zag for it so much (and on how much trouble he was for aiding)

but you probably mean that Than was emotionally hurt by the thought of Zag leaving forever so disregard my point

[stuck kettle]

yeah, emotionally hurt, which is why I think we get so much disproportionate hostility, like Than is trying to deal with a sense of grief by pushing him away

and he mentions that he noticed he had romantic feelings toward zag during the last ambrosia scene

[tough fox]

THESEUS IS LITERALLY A GROOMER

[stuck kettle]

I think that's a bit of a stretch

Unless you're talking about Ariadne

[tough fox]

A daughter of Zeus

[stuck kettle]

A granddaughter?

[tough fox]

No, Helen of Troy

Not Ariadne

[atomic forge]

just wait for the other 400 greek myths that are problematic

[tough fox]

And Theseus also tried to marry Persephone and steal her from Hades, but you could imagine how it went

[stuck kettle]

Oh are you talking about the actual myth or the game? I don't remember Helen getting brought up at all, even with Achilles and Pat

[tough fox]

The myth

[stuck kettle]

Persephone didn't willingly go down to Hades in the original myth either. That's... just all of greek mythology lol

[tough fox]

Ye, but she liked it there and she had a good, functional relationship with Hades

Hades is actually a nice dude who only messed up 2 people (who deserved it), loves his wife, keeps his promises (always), does his job well and there is evidence that Cerberus translates to "spotted", so he literally named his dog Spot

The only reason he gets a bad rep is bc of satan

[stuck kettle]

He kidnapped and married his niece

[tough fox]

Tht's just greek mythology stuff, they're gods,

That kind of messed up stuff is normal with gods

Bc they're not human

Also ZEUS kidnapped Persephone, not Hades

Also, the word "kidnapped" has a pretty different meaning now than then

[stuck kettle]

And the girl was amazed and reached out with both hands to take the lovely toy; but the wide-pathed earth yawned there in the plain of Nysa, and the lord, Host of Many, with his immortal horses sprang out upon her —the Son of Cronos, He who has many names.https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0138%3Ahymn%3D2%3Acard%3D1
Not to be that guy, but it was Hades, not Zeus

He had Zeus's permission though since he was her father and all

[tough fox]

Ohhhh

Ok

Thanks

[stuck kettle]

So he, that son of Cronos, of many names, who is Ruler of Many and Host of Many, [30] was bearing her away by leave of Zeus on his immortal chariot —his own brother's child and all unwilling.

[tough fox]

So, Aphrodite is basically made of Uranos's balls in the ocean?

(I am talking about the Theogony)

[stuck kettle]

yup lol

[full kindle]

Mythology is bonkers

I love it

There’s a great podcast out there explaining the myths and viewing them from a modern prospective and with great humor in it

Let’s talk about myths, baby

[tough fox]

Historians be like:
Ye Achiles and Patroclus were great FRIENDS, we all want to share an ash burial with our mates, no? Just pals being pals

[full kindle]

THEY WERE TENTMATES

[stuck kettle]

Tbf, the Iliad never says that they are anything beyond friends

[tough fox]

Maybe you read a different translation of it?

Bc I am pretty sure they were depicted as lovers there

[sage vault]

theres alot of them and regardless even if you could translate it with perfect accuracy there are cultural assumptions that influence interpritations

[tough fox]

There is a huge amount of evidence outside the Illiad

[stuck kettle]

Yeah, Plato and later works depict them as a couple

[sage vault]

its a story that originated as a oral tradition theres bound to been hundreds of versions

[tough fox]

Yes, it is ambiguous

Either could be true

The archeological discoveries were made at a time when Homosexuality was frowned upon, so that might've played a part in our current beliefs

[stuck kettle]

Sure and I'm totally on board with them being romantically involved and buy the argument that it would have been obvious enough to not warrant mentioning in the original text, but it's not like homosexuality was a totally acceptable norm between two men either

[tough fox]

In the Greek times, you mean?

[stuck kettle]

Ancient greek yeah

[tough fox]

I don't think that the Greeks identified people by sexuality back then. Wasn't it just top and bottom?

[stuck kettle]

From what I understand yeah

[tough fox]

I don't think homophobia was as much a problem in Ancient Greece as it is now

[stuck kettle]

Yes but that's not what the issue would be, though I'm not gonna go further since idk if this is the place to discuss something potentially triggering

[tough fox]

Yea, you're right

[ruby schooner]

there are different possible interpretations, which is mainly because relationships in ancient greece in general were different than they are today

i’m pretty sure ancient greeks didn’t think in terms of modern sexualities, but had their own terms and customs

[open berry]

I think one thing people forget is that "fandom" spaces and academic spaces run on different rules. Most classics accounts I follow agree there was something between Pat and Achilles and they'll make the historians jokes too but when you get down to it on an academic level it's still debated whether there was something definitive in text, and if you so much as suggest that, the fandom spaces gets all in arms about it because how dare you say anything besides the fact they were totally gay and in love. There are lots of modern interpretations that explore them, The Song of Achilles beings one (and it probably inspired our Hades interpretations! Greg has said before he's read it) but interpretations are just that.

And... I think that's why mythos still prevails today as a topic that interests people, due to the vast amount of interpretations people take from what is already there, and putting their own spin on it. Hades did really great with this (though I still have one primary complaint that long time community members here are probably well aware what I'm referring to rofl) but again, these things are interpretations of myth. There isn't any one form of "canon" in mythos or anything

[ruby schooner]

when i first started studying greek myth, was most surprised me was that there was no single “correct” version of events, but many different ones which may have been written for different motivations! and we’re still continuong to create new versions today for yet more different motivations. it’s pretty cool

[stuck kettle]

Oh yeah for sure! It's super interesting looking back at like, persephone's abduction myth, which likely not even from Hellenism and seeing people try to trace how it evolved into the modern tellings

[lapis elk]

What is that one primary complaint, if you don't mind?

[open berry]

the way hypnos is handled

[lapis elk]

In what regard?

[open finch]

gets out popcorn

[open berry]

cracks knuckles...

He contributes little to the narrative beyond having death lines and serving as the underworld door greeter. Zag never truly bonds with him, and in fact Zag treats him more distantly than he does the bosses in some instances. He casually tells Thanatos that he's mean to Hypnos "a lot" while in the same breath berating Thanatos for his own behaviour to Hypnos (lol hypocrite). The way Hypnos is treated by others in the House for being unable to do his work is entirely mean-spirited and everyone would rather just talk behind his back than do anything helpful. His own mother says he won't be mature enough to handle himself until the coming of the next age. The entire ordeal between Hypnos and Thanatos isn't really resolved in any meaningful way and just puts the blame solely on Hypnos and how he can't focus on his tasks, oops now he's making lists for himself and suddenly things are okay, Thanatos offers a lukewarm apology, and Zag never apologizes at all for what he said about Hypnos. Nor does Zag ever thank Hypnos for that Very Important deed of putting the House to sleep, which literally kicks off the events of the game. Judging by their affinity lines, Hypnos was never more than an acquaintance to Zag and really had no reason in the slightest to pull off this big favour for Zag, we never find out why Hypnos ever agreed to it and it's never brought up ever again. Zeus got big mad at Hypnos for putting him to sleep, wouldn't be too far-fetched to think Hades would also be quite irritable to discover Hypnos put him to sleep on Zag's behalf, yknow? And even by the end of Hypnos's affinity it never really feels like they've bonded, and Zag's response to Hypnos asking if he'll be his best friend is just "I'll have to give it a shot." Hypnos never refers to Zag by name at any point in any of his dialogue and his interactions feel more impersonal than basically any other character speaking with Zag.

[open finch]

I'm glad to know it's actually true that Hypnos never mentions Zag by name, because I caught onto that but I wasn't entirely sure

[open berry]

I've literally combed through all of his dialogue just to confirm, the moment I realized something was off

Everyone has their own nicknames for Zag, or uses his name, Hypnos never does.

[open finch]

When I saw the meme of people's nicknames for Zag I was like-huh, wot's Hypnos'? And then I realized

[open berry]

Narrative and character dynamic is something I really enjoy diving into and picking apart, and Hypnos remains a consistent oddity that is handled differently

[tiny sequoia]

the hypnos arc is a character who starts off unable to work in the role assigned to him, and eventually finds a solution. that's a story that has a lot to do with ideology. what's interesting is that zag goes through the same arc but they don't make that connection at all.

we could've had a scene where hypnos confesses "yeah i really can't keep up with this workload, it doesn't work for me" and then zag is like "woah I've totally been there, I relate to that"

[open berry]

I don't think you need to talk down about a person and their work ethic to make a point about said work ethic, and then never address the fact people were talking down at all. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth

The fact Dusa and Zag even had a convo that resulted in Zag saying "don't worry I'll talk to Hypnos so no one else has to" is entirely mean-spirited and unnecessary

For someone who sticks his nose in everyone else's business and goes out of his way to make sure everyone is okay, he doesn't give remotely the same kind of regard to Hypnos, which bothers me a lot

Seeing what he said about Hypnos to Dusa and Thanatos is one of the times I genuinely felt disappointed by Zag, it felt out of place

[tiny sequoia]

I see what you mean

[open berry]

Anyway that's my Hypnos grievances lmao

[lapis elk]

Wow. I completely understand now that you mention that. I would have to agree, throughout my play-through I did find it odd how lacking Hypnos was involved in the overall story and actually completely forgotten him putting the house to sleep as it's never mentioned again (as you said).

[tiny sequoia]

I have a lot of thoughts about society and the concept of "laziness"

it's easy to miss how hypnos is treated because that's how society encourages us to treat "lazy" people, or something

[lapis elk]

I can understand that.

[ruby schooner]

the codex mentions that hypnos brings a bit of lightheartedness to the business of the house. it would have been nice for the writing to lean into that a bit more

[open berry]

I mean I've seen a lot of adhd-ers express solidarity with some of Hypnos's traits, myself included. And we've heard it all, including that we are lazy and don't want to work, when we find it difficult to focus for one reason or another. So it's another more personal sting to how he's treat by everyone. But there's enough that bothers me as a whole with his narrative that I don't feel a need to bring in personal anecdotes

It's just inconsistent to pretty much any other character in the game, which is... really strange

[lapis elk]

Indeed

[tiny sequoia]

I've even heard "oh just make a list and then you'll be able to work productively", so... that's not a satisfying way for that arc to be resolved, for me

[lapis elk]

I did not care for that at all personally and remarked to my SO how strange that was.

[open berry]

it's not lmao, that's why I said it's not resolved in any meaningful way

[vivid wraith]

I open the channel and see a message that starts with cracks knuckles

lol

[lapis elk]

Tatz was... ready

[open berry]

i have Some Reputations here

I'm very passionate about how weird Hypnos is treated

it's just disappointing to me for a game that otherwise had a banger narrative, like, what happened here....

[tiny sequoia]

and there's so much potential there!

[lapis elk]

There really is! The Greek mythos has SO MUCH potential!

[open berry]

god really lmao. Like I was bummed about Hypnos and Thanatos having such a rift between them because they're quite close in mythos, but whatever, it's an interpretation like any other media based off mythos. But there's something bittersweet about this being like.. the most in depth depiction of Hypnos and still having so little substance.

[vale knot]

Uh. When should I have noticed that Hypnos did a jigglypuff right before the first run?
Did I skip over that dialog somehow?

[tiny sequoia]

it's the scene where zag looks at his dad's desk and sees who his mom is

[vale knot]

Welp. Missed it

[tiny sequoia]

turns out without hypnos's help the events of the whole story would never have started

[open berry]

I think that's kinda just a little bit important and even without my Hypnos bias I would have felt it's a little odd it's never brought up again 🤨

[vale knot]

Maybe Greg had an elaborate dialog tree for Hypnos, learned he was going to voice him, and deleted half of Hypnos' lines

[open berry]

[tiny sequoia]

the more i think about it... does the story want you to hate hypnos? "every time you die, a clown makes fun of you"

[stuck kettle]

lol my biggest grievance is how obviously nyx favors than over hypnos

doesn't even try to hide it

[tiny sequoia]

the thing with theseus is that they don't try to hamfist a reason where you give him gifts and then he gets better

[lapis elk]

Thanatos, not Theseus

[tiny sequoia]

no I'm talking about theseus, the other guy you're supposed to hate

[lapis elk]

oh... I see

[open finch]

supposed to hate but end up luvin in my case

[lapis elk]

stares at Egg

[open finch]

:>

[tiny sequoia]

if you want to write a hatable character you write theseus, a mean jock who you get to beat up. there's no problems there

[stuck kettle]

I don't think you're supposed to hate him; I think he's just supposed to be a sarcastic comic relief. I at least got a kick out of the sassy comments from him every time at the house 😅

[tiny sequoia]

loving theseus is also fun

[lapis elk]

I agree with Joyce, I don't hate him... I just want to beat the ever loving ____ out of him

[stuck kettle]

I love Theseus's dramatic self. There must be something redeeming if he was able to uh, get a man-eating monster to reform

lol if I know I'm not gonna finish a run, I try to die to something new in hopes that he'll make fun of me again

[open berry]

Theseus is in my top 3 fav characters

lol

[ruby schooner]

in one of my classes, i remember seeing an ancient artistic depiction of hypnos and thanatos taking sarpedon (a rather minor character) down to the underworld. it was interesting to see an example of them working alongside each other: something that you don’t see in hades

[open berry]

They're frequently depicted together in mythos. They're minor deities and don't show up a whole lot as it is, but usually they're close

which is why them being so at odds in the game bummed me out a bit

[ruby schooner]

it makes sense: sleep and death are close, if you think about it

[open finch]

I was def unsure of how I was supposed to read Hypnos when I first played, but his non-death related dialogue was so sweet, and his bluntness was really endearing. Doing Nyx's sidequest really draws some parallels ( her growing distant with Chaos).

[lapis elk]

I'm trying to recall what franchise depicts them as "two sides of the same coin" I want to say God of War or the Percy Jackson series

[open berry]

The continual favourtism towards Thanatos from all the other characters as a means to further put Hypnos's apparent incompetence with his job down is another thing that bums me out lmao but that just leads back into my prior essay. Nevermind that in myth Thanatos's major appearances involve his own failings

[lapis elk]

sysaphus pats bouldy

[open berry]

Not only Sisyphus but Heracles

[stuck kettle]

the "don't call me mom here" bit hurt me a lil ngl

[lapis elk]

I'm not familiar with that mythos

[stuck kettle]

heracles beat him up

lmao

[lapis elk]

oh. rekt nerd

I just remember stomping him with Kratos

[open berry]

I find it really funny that his major myths involve him being utterly humiliated, yet media consistently characterizes him as some cool edgy guy

[open finch]

Look. I adore Nyx ;-; luv her to death.

But seeing that line made my heart hurt ;-;

[stuck kettle]

Dude I still theorize that this whole thing was a power play to get zag and than together

[lapis elk]

Because death is personified as this edgy angel of death thing with the skull and wings and scythe

[open finch]

I dunno, Hades' Than gives me minor dork vibes like I can see this Than getting pushed around a bit-still wanna give him a hug, but I can see it!

[open berry]

meanwhile Hypnos put Zeus to sleep twice (and thus his involvement affected the Trojan War) and he gets nothing. It makes people have this weird idea that Hypnos didn't do anything in mythos because of his Hades characterization. The whole "Hades is pretty close to myth" and so therefore Hades Hypnos being perceived as "lazy" means the same for myth, which. is not the case

[stuck kettle]

I mean that is kinda how the cthonic gods were characterized in the mythos, and those 2 instances were significant because of how impossible they were. I think making than edgy and gruff was a good call

I mean, hypnos should probs be married in game, or at least engaged

so it's funny that he's like... so bumbling

[open berry]

I have nothing against their characterization, and again the underworld gods were generally minor deities and you have to dig deep to find much info about them (which is a shame because I think there should be less media about olympians) but I'm kinda more like.. pointing out Hypnos's wasted potential I guess

[ruby schooner]

depends on which version of sleep you want to portray: the friendly, comforting version or the "just a short step from death" version. hypnos might have been meant to be more comic relief than anything else? but yeah, there was a lot of potential to add to his character

[stuck kettle]

Yeah I totally agree. I like him as a comedic relief and I don't know who else would fit as well as he does, but I wish we had him like... be as scary as any of Nyx's other kids

just like a second

[lapis elk]

Like a dark turn where his portrait changes and his voice changes to show his full strength and power

[open berry]

I think a god referred to as "conqueror of the gods" in an epic written in the 3rd century bc by Apollonius of Rhodes should definitely have a cooler role than comedic acquaintance with unfulfilling narrative

thats my

[lapis elk]

Tatz out here doing the serious research

[stuck kettle]

I think there were enough big strong characters, and having a gentle, funny guy is nice. I totally agree that seeing him and Than do something together as maybe a catalyst of mending things would have been nice

[open berry]

Hypnos putting suffering mortals to sleep to ease their way into Thanatos's domain

[ruby schooner]

nothing wrong with him being gentle, but he could have more....authority, i guess? his sphere (sleep) is quite a big one

[lapis elk]

😢

[ruby schooner]

his duties outside of the house in the game are never really clear either

[lapis elk]

True

[open berry]

He doesn't really have duties outside of his obligations to the House, it's never really brought up

[stuck kettle]

Nyx sending hypnos out with than for his independence skills would have been great imo

[open berry]

Which is weird for him being sleep incarnate, a fact that no one seems to understand

[ruby schooner]

unrelated, but i imagined a version of hypnos that never actually wakes up, but communicates to others who approach him: mind to mind, maybe?

[lapis elk]

ooooooooo

[ruby schooner]

sleep is taken for granted by many, can also be seen as unimportant by many. it's modern culture, maybe, which perpetuates that point of view. but sleep is much more than people make it seem

[open berry]

Absolutely. Also the fact that gods generally don't need sleep like mortals do, so I'm sure they inherently don't understand the domain that Hypnos maintains

all the more reason I just wanna see him snap 😩

[ruby schooner]

death is a big occasion, only happens once to everyone, what comes after death is debated...it's a bigger deal. sleep happens every night, and therefore goes unnoticed

after all, you sleep through it

[ruby schooner]

now that is a great angle to consider

do shades sleep? even they might have forgotten what it feels like

so there's no one in the House ||Persephone, maybe??|| who actually sleeps on the regular

[stuck kettle]

dlc that's just hypnos losing it

[lapis elk]

||Persephone|| is still a minor god

[stuck kettle]

She's less of a god than zag in hades though

[ruby schooner]

||she is a demigod in Hades lore specifically, so i thought maybe? but yeah, i'm not sure/convinced||

[open berry]

[hypnos voice] are you tired of being nice? dont you just want to go

[stuck kettle]

Yeah, they were trying to side step the uh, zeus being her dad thing

[lapis elk]

"Go where?" *Dora Voice for some reason*To Tartarus of course!

[vale knot]

It would be very amusing to gauge the reactions of the different gods to suddenly feeling hunger and tiredness

Suddenly everyone taking Hypnos seriously

[ruby schooner]

honestly i kind of wish zag slept more in the game. i feel like at a certain point story content drops off dramatically and what's left is all attached to gift giving

[lapis elk]

I would certainly agree with that.

[tiny sequoia]

imagine if you could practice sleeping hte same way you practice the harp

[lapis elk]

brain explodes

[lapis elk]

||How much Nectar does Bouldy need before I can work on Sysaphrus' pact?||

[open berry]

you only need to talk to him i think

[tiny sequoia]

I don't think the game ever counts how much nectar bouldy has taken

[lapis elk]

I know it doesn't count it, I was just curious how long it took before he realized I was cool or whatever

[sleek crane]

So uuh

When ||hades lets you go without fighting him and persephone comes back to the underworld, is that the true ending?||

[lament epoch]

Yeah that's the end of the main story

Theres also an epilogue

[sleek crane]

Ooh really?

[lament epoch]

Yeah

[sleek crane]

Is it reuniting the olympians and stuff?

[lament epoch]

Yeah

[sleek crane]

Okok

I assume i just need to keep fighting until ||persephone|| talks to me?

[lament epoch]

No

You need to give nectar and ambrosia to the olympians

[sleek crane]

Ah

So the reuniting is over a dinner of ambrosia?

[lament epoch]

Yeah pretty much

[sleek crane]

Lol nice

[hard rose]

(post credits)
Does anyone have a collection of all the ||conversations between Hades and Persephone in the garden||

I missed one and now I'm very sad

[thin vale]

man I really like how tisiphone evolved once you get more immersed in the story

||especially when she finally says Zagreus' name||

that itself was a reward on its own 😄

[topaz spear]

she once said murder...zer

insane.

[lapis elk]

But wait... there's more

[agile maple]

Theory: Zagreus is God of the Heart.

[lapis elk]

I thought Achilles suggested him being the God of Blood and relationships or something along those lines

[agile maple]

It was Blood and Life, which connect nicely to relationships through the above proposal.

Indeed, the power to bend his own heart so, and how he can ease the tension on the hearts of others - or stop them - as naturally as walking...

...or both, as the case may be.

Blood makes the most sense lineage-wise considering his parents, but unless you extend the definition of blood to include "familial ties, Found Family included"...

Wait that actually works.

Blood it is then.

[lapis elk]

Sweet

[agile maple]

Wait, doesn't the description for your Bond with Thanatos pretty much confirm that Zag is indeed the god of Blood/Life?

Rather than just being speculation like the Codex.

Okay I checked it and it literally says the same thing as the codex - God of Blood and Life. But since it's spoken by The Narrator rather than Achilles, can we take it as fact?

[open berry]

i personally like rebirth, not just bc of myth and the gameplay loop, but to me it also themes in with how shaky/broken relationships are addressed through the course of the game

i think its largely up to player interpretation honestly

[agile maple]

Life, Blood, Rebirth, Hearts... all linked. Honestly it stands as a testament to how well-written this damn game is.

[lapis elk]

PRAISE THE CREATORS!

[agile maple]

Unrelated note: it annoys me that Hypnos' dialogue dries up after a while, and she rarely has anything interesting to say after a certain point. With her deep linkage with your constant deaths, it makes sense that she'd be hard to write such that her dialogue makes sense once you've gotten good enough to die of Natural Causes most of the time.

[lapis elk]

You missed Tatz essay last night I take it?

I'm not sure how to link a comment from earlier but I'll try and learn real quick

#h1-story-discussion message

Boom! from there down lol

[agile maple]

My complaint is more that the dialogue as you form her bond feels... anachronistic, after you've grown accustomed to dying a lot. But there are certainly a lot of ways she's a bit flat of a character.

Against such a host of characters - even Skelly, for Gods' sake! - being limited to just comic relief seems very odd.

[lapis elk]

Yes, I would agree. That was our whole discussion last night with Tatz.

[agile maple]

And then the topic goes to Theseus... making me also annoyed that there's no way to talk to Asterius outside of his chamber (not that that isn't enough, but.)

[lapis elk]

It would certainly be interesting to have out of combat conversations with the heroes.

[tiny sequoia]

Well... they can't develop EVERYONE

[lapis elk]

Oh I know, just dreaming

[agile maple]

Mmm... I feel like Theseus is fine the way he is, as the Honor-blinded, braggadocius epitome of everything Patroclus hates about Elysium

And the way that arc goes without any intervention from Zag is how it should be

[lapis elk]

Oh yes I agree, I don't believe either of the heroes need further development past Asterius gaining respect for Zag. Just saying it would be nice to talk to them out of combat at times.

[agile maple]

There's no reason for it to be anything more than "you walk in, you talk, you fight", really.

They're the only characters in the game whose story arcs can play out without you doing anything special, since you only play the role of "sworn enemy" to them.

Besides, Asterius I get, but how would Theseus interact with you in a role other than sworn enemy?

[lapis elk]

I dunno, maybe rampaging through Elysium to return to the arena before you do? I'm not sure really for Theseus, but Asterius would be wonderful to have discussions like Pat and Achilles. But I suppose you do during his solo fights. I dunno man.

[agile maple]

Same applies to Alecto and Tisiphone, I guess.

[left glade]

MRRDRRRR

[lapis elk]

Tisiphone's arc kind of frustrates me. You get her saying Zag's name and then even ||happy|| but then Alecto pitches a fit and she stops.

[left glade]

ZRGUS

MRDUERRRRRRR

tisiphone is annyoing

[lapis elk]

How so?

Alecto personally irritates me.

[left glade]

all she says is murder and nothing else

[lapis elk]

That's kind of the point lol. Crash why did you delete that comment? I agree with you lol

[agile maple]

It's a good character without being too deep.

I mean, you meet Charon enough for "hrrrrrn" to mean anything, but MURDERER. carries meaning by tone of voice alone.

[lapis elk]

Exactly. The cadence, inflection and tone is how she communicates.

[agile maple]

Even once it gets to the point of ZAGREUS, they're pretty much used interchangeably. It's neat, it doesn't add too much to the character, but it certainly makes her feel... warmer?

[lapis elk]

Oh yes. I would agree. I need to run EM more to get more dialogue from the Furies.

[agile maple]

And I suppose I need to run non-EM more for the same reason.

[lapis elk]

subtle flex

[left glade]

EM?

[lapis elk]

Extreme Measures

[left glade]

and zag murdered someone?

[agile maple]

Nnnh, once you're used to it, three isn't that much harder than one. The actual fight doesn't change much.

[lapis elk]

Zag never murdered anyone, that's why he gets so defensive about it. And then begins trying to teach her his name.

[left glade]

i mean... he didn't as far as i know so far

so why is she saying murder???

it just makes no sense

[lapis elk]

She is the Fury whom punishes murderers

[left glade]

but he didn't murder anyone

[agile maple]

I guess "taking lives in war and/or self defense" is all the excuse she needs to do her job?

[lapis elk]

Her entire being is encapsulated by murder.

[left glade]

that's why i don't care for her too mush it's just makes no sese

cant murder gods

hethans are already dead

idk im sorry

im trying to understand

[lapis elk]

The Erinyes punish th truly wicked in Greek mythos. Megera(sp) punishes Oath-Breakers for instance, which is why she's so focused on doing her job correctly.
THE ERINYES (Furies) were three goddesses of vengeance and retribution who punished men for crimes against the natural order. They were particularly concerned with homicide, unfilial conduct, offenses against the gods, and perjury. A victim seeking justice could call down the curse of the Erinys upon the criminal.

[left glade]

okay so with tish...offesnes against the gods makes sense

[agile maple]

Canon: Zag is just another "appointment" to Alecto and presumably the other Furies.
Headcanon: due to the context of her usual work, Tisiphone either assumes or was told Zag is being punished for murder.

[lapis elk]

The way Hades (the game) made the mythos theirs was having each of the Furies address certain crimes against the natural order. Alecto is just an all out punisher (as far as I know) and is not specified in what she punishes in the game. Meg, the Oath-Breakers and Tis the Murderers.

[left glade]

oh told to carry out a muder sentencing

murder

yeah i can see that

[agile maple]

While Meg knows the true context of Zag's crimes, the other two seemingly don't.

[tiny sequoia]

Alecto wouldn't care

[left glade]

Alecto does not give a ****

...poop

[lapis elk]

Yeah, I feel the sisters were dragged in by Meg and assume that Zag is just another assignment to them. Offering another reason for Tis' use of only 'Murder and Murderer'
But I recall dialogue between Zag and Meg asking why Tis was the way she was with words and Meg responds along the lines of "We [the Furies] each allow our work to affect us differently. Tis more so than us."

[left glade]

She is the absolutist... if that's correct to say.

[lapis elk]

I'm not sure it is... but I think I understand your meaning.

[left glade]

I'm sure there's a better way to put it

[lapis elk]

I would say she is very "Dedicated" Or maybe that she let her work consume her.

[topaz spear]

hes a guy btw

[left glade]

SHe IS her work

Her work IS her

[topaz spear]

Also forging a bond with hypnos is pain lol

[tiny sequoia]

"We each allow our work to affect us different" seems really dismissive of tisiphone... sounds like victim blaming

[lapis elk]

I would agree. But that was how Meg put it.

She essentially dismissed Tis' condition as her own fault.

[tiny sequoia]

Tisiphone is in the top 5 hades characters who deserve better

[lapis elk]

What are the other 4? Hypnos for sure. But the others you have in mind?

[topaz spear]

asterius

[tiny sequoia]

Zag

[topaz spear]

why zag

[lapis elk]

Yeah, why Zag? I felt his arc was sufficient.

As for Asterius, we discussed his arc earlier in the chatroom

[left glade]

Asterius is cool.

[tiny sequoia]

Zag solved all his material problems but like... I get the sense he's got a lot of complicated feelings left to cope with wrt his parents

[left glade]

thesius is a tool

[topaz spear]

There is a really well developed story with asterius but i wish you could gift him nectar and all that

Maybe after you defeat him as a mini boss?

[lapis elk]

I agree with Con on that.

[topaz spear]

Theres so many things suggesting it

Zag offering him nectar

[tiny sequoia]

Asterius never seems unhappy to me. resigned, maybe, but not unhappy

[left glade]

i would hang with asterius

[topaz spear]

The whole thing about theseus thinking you are trying to steal his friend

[lapis elk]

Theseus is just a wonderful punching bag with a loud mouth.

[topaz spear]

Unlike theseus who's just an idiot (even if he's actually a good person)

Asterius just fights for fun

And even compliments your fighting skills multiple times

[lapis elk]

I mean, he was a celebrated and known King of Athens. So like...

[tiny sequoia]

Asterius does it for the love of the fight, theseus does it for the crowd

[lapis elk]

Asterius is just one of the bros honestly. Nothing but respect for the Bull of Minos.

[topaz spear]

Yup

He's just like "Up for a friendly battle?" except that you cant choose to say no

[tiny sequoia]

You never get to see theseus when he's not in front of a crowd... I think a lot of the bravado is intentionally exaggerated

[left glade]

Yeah and he does a "short one" jab at you but it's in a friendly, respectful way

[topaz spear]

Always wanted to see more shades being on your side as you defeat the heroes more

[lapis elk]

Oh certainly. I mentioned earlier about wanting to see Theseus fighting in the background of Elysium as he strives to climb back to the arena before Zag returns.

[left glade]

yeah that one red shade love you

[lapis elk]

That one shade is the GOAT. I always go over to him to hear Zag thank him.

[topaz spear]

Same

[left glade]

anyone know the deal with that one red shade fan?

[topaz spear]

Also would love to see achilles and patroclus in the crowd cheering for you

[left glade]

can you explain that more?

[open berry]

there's nothing to the shade, its just a fun extra that was added in

[topaz spear]

Hell, maybe even have a chance to fight them instead of the heroes sometimes, although i doubt they want to fight after what happened...

[tiny sequoia]

Do you think the red shade's little zag picture is hand painted? I can't imagine they're being sold down there

[lapis elk]

After defeating the Heroes once? Maybe three times I'm not sure. A red shade appears with a banner bearing Zag's face on it like those showing Theseus' and Asterius' around the arena.

[lapis elk]

Theseus and Asterius are the champions of Elysium. As in they fought there way to the arena and became Champions and then fight other shades that dare challenge them. That's why on initial encounter Theseus assumes you are another shade and does for many of the encounters. Each time you defeat them they would have to reconstitute in Elysium as the are shades belonging there, and then fight other shades to regain the spot of Champion.

[topaz spear]

Like i get not being able to befriend the hydra since...yknow...

[lapis elk]

Lernie is such a sweetheart though what do you mean?

[topaz spear]

But i really want to be able to befriend asterius, if not both heroes

[topaz spear]

Can't really talk (although charon exists and you can be really good friends with him) and when you arent fighting, lernie is usually dead

Trying to regrow its heads

[tiny sequoia]

Imagine opening up the back of the lounge so lernie can peek in and say hello

[topaz spear]

lol

[left glade]

Zag pretty much creates a pseudo "friendship" with hydra

[topaz spear]

how did it get to tartarus

[tiny sequoia]

Swimming

[topaz spear]

"Lernie, hiss aggresively if you missed me"

[left glade]

lernie lives in the lava

that's where he lives

tarturus he can't survive

...right?

[lapis elk]

I'm not sure how a bone hydra doomed to an eternity within the river Phlegathon in Asphodel would poke one of his heads through a rear entrance in the House of Hades based at the bottom of Tartarus but I understand the sentiment.

[tiny sequoia]

Oh I'm sorry, I don't "read" the "lore"

[topaz spear]

longe neck

[tiny sequoia]

Bones can't get cold

[topaz spear]

thats how

its neck extends for the entirety of asphodel and tartarus

[tiny sequoia]

Theres animated bones in tartarus, and hydra is animated bones

[left glade]

i'm pretty sure taht's not possible

[topaz spear]

yeah but

it cant go there

its doomed to stay there

[tiny sequoia]

Change lernie's contract lmao

[left glade]

yes, as are all other beings

[topaz spear]

GREAT IDEA

[lapis elk]

This is the way. Alter his contract of service to Hades. Lmao.

[topaz spear]

"Lernie, hiss if you want me to change your contract"

[tiny sequoia]

How did lernie sign a contract anyway... a tiny pen in his big mouth

[lapis elk]

No no... clearly a fireball scorch mark on the edge of the parchment.

[left glade]

lernie can't sighn anything and hades doesn't change arrangments andlernie is the boss

[topaz spear]

One of its many heads can spit ink instead of fire

[left glade]

gonna need another boss

[topaz spear]

he literally does lol

well, zag does

[left glade]

poll: alternate bosses?

[topaz spear]

also

you can literally date meg but you still fight her

[lapis elk]

Let's head to Discussion if we're gonna stay along this path please.

[tiny sequoia]

Alternatively, you give lernie a big fluffy coat so he can stand the cold

[left glade]

a coat to stay cold?

wut

[topaz spear]

a coat so he doesnt STAY cold

[left glade]

oh STAND THE COLD

my bad im sorrry

[topaz spear]

but yeah, lernie is a pretty good character

[lapis elk]

Foxtrot I'm starting to worry about your reading comprehension at this point.

[left glade]

he is so cute, tho

im mostly skimming thing

s

[topaz spear]

I find it funny that hades fires zag for being late but not for altering many contracts

[lapis elk]

Punctuality is key to running an efficient Underworld, Con.

[topaz spear]

true

[left glade]

I wanna give Lernie all the pets.

[lapis elk]

Plus, altering contracts is within the realm of possibility because it never breaks any rules. Just changes them.

[topaz spear]

Be careful, the hydra could eat your arm off

You have to pet it like cerberus, only the right head

[left glade]

whos's a good hydra.

hahahhaha

?*\

[lapis elk]

Foxtrot are you aware of the edit tool?

[left glade]

yeah i don't use it that much though, unless I'm typing out something with some length, relatively speaking.,

[lapis elk]

Understandable.

[topaz spear]

Youj should use the edit tool more

You*

[lapis elk]

What are everyone's thoughts on the Administration chamber? I feel there could be more there despite inspiring the shades and records of your runs of course. And the ||Gate||

[left glade]

yeah it's pretty limited.

almost useless?

[topaz spear]

Yeah, wish it could give more info

Like the rarity of the boons and stuff like that

When you got the boons

[lapis elk]

I mean, It's useful in regards to what boons you used on a successful or not-so successful run.

[topaz spear]

Etc etc

[left glade]

meh

[lapis elk]

Those would be nice QOL improvements.

[left glade]

yesm but even then

[topaz spear]

More info in general

[left glade]

"insight of boons"

[lapis elk]

I could see the benefit. Essentially a wiki of your run.

[agile maple]

Also why does it only show one half of a Chaos boon

[lapis elk]

I believe because the curse for the boon can change? Although I'm not sure so don't quote me.

[tiny sequoia]

Because chaos boons get paired up randomly

There's actually 156 possible chaos boons

[lapis elk]

[tiny sequoia]

Although... probably less than that, it's complicated

[lapis elk]

Beat Charon for the first time with Chiron's aspect. There's a joke in there somewhere.

[zinc belfry]

Boatman va Centaur who wins find out next time

[finite ridge]

the centaur did

[thin vale]

How many ending scripts does this game have?

I mean after every run you beat hades

[lament epoch]

1

[thin vale]

They are hilarious

[lament epoch]

oh

[thin vale]

I mean the one where the narrator keeps explaining how zagreus always randomly dies

😂

[lament epoch]

yeah

idk

[stuck kettle]

I stopped getting new ones at 53 iirc

[weak dawn]

any one got any idea how to get last aspect of fist weapon

[lament epoch]

pinned messages

check them

[shadow ice]

100 hours in and ||still cant reunite anyone or free sisyphus ||

[vivid wraith]

Do you have relationship with Nyx

and the administrative chamber

[young spindle]

EM4 music:

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8R8iFf9ltE

Me, thinking I just finished my run: Thank god I'm finally done.

Hades, eyes glowing and rising from the earth: HI FINALLY DONE, I'M DAD||

[atomic forge]

When Hades stands up for phase 2, that's his Super Saiyan moment.

When he punches the ground and stands up for phase 3, that's the "Oh, hell, Buu's gonna blow up Earth," moment.

[shadow ice]

yea im waiting to gift her ambrosia and i've had the chamber open for a while !

[lapis nexus]

I assume after the epilogue that Nectar/Ambrosia is my main story advancement item at this point?

[lapis nexus]

I assume Hades phase 3 is locked behind Extreme Measures max rank?

[lament epoch]

Yes

[lament epoch]

Yeah but there are some things that require different stuff

[lapis nexus]

I was told to "forge bonds with the gods" and of course, most of my nectars have gone towards Cthonic Gods

[shadow ice]

for forging my bond with Hermes do i have to ||defeat Charon twice in a row for his "bet"? ||

[lament epoch]

No

You need to max his keepsake and talk to him

Beating charon twice in a row is a side quest

[shadow ice]

ooh okay thank you !!! hes the only Olympian that was locked I was so confused

[lament epoch]

Np

[full kindle]

Skelly just ||asked me to legit kill him. Do I really need that to progress?|| I just love him there 😅

[tiny sequoia]

It's the only way to finish that story arc

But it's not part of the main story so...

Deny his wishes, if you must

[full kindle]

It was weird though. It says there’s hearts left to max him out after the locked heart.. how can I max him when I do as he asks?

[tiny sequoia]

Only one way to find out

[tawny portal]

I had the same doubt too lmao

[shadow ice]

Fr I was like I’m not ready to disappoint him yet…

[tawny portal]

Lmaoo exactly

[stuck kettle]

If you really want to know what happens || it's a prank. He'll be fine and come back ||

but yea like riddler said, you do need to do it to progress

[full kindle]

Okay I will do it once I die again later today 😅

Thanks guys

[zinc belfry]

Things that only Hades players can say without having everyone around them be concerned...maybe:
"Once I die again"

[atomic forge]

Shout-out to the time I was talking to my little sister shortly after my mom and dad had separated: "Well, I beat Mom, but I haven't beat Satan." ||It was The Binding of Isaac.||

[zinc belfry]

Okay, but dialogue in the game I found hilarious
Note that I am not quoting this verbatim
Hades: Why don't you clean your room with as much vigor as your fighting?
Zagreus: At least my room is not as boring as yours
Hades: YOU TAKE THAT BACK ABOUT MY ROOM
Zagreus: YOUR ROOM IS BORING

[atomic forge]

Man, when even your weird incidental dialogue is that good?

[zinc belfry]

I honestly love the relationship Hades and Zagreus grow to have. Still the smart talk back, but at least they are a little kinder to each other. A little.

[stuck kettle]

Why does Dusa not just... clean his room? He's a prince, and they have servants...

[ruby schooner]

seems like a zag thing to tell her she doesn't have to

[hard rose]

sometimes you can literally feel hades' inner dialogue of "must.... be.... nice.... grrrRrrrRR"

it's so adorable

[zinc belfry]

I love this disaster of a family and how they grow from their...disaster, haha

[stuck kettle]

That's actually a really good point. I can't see him being cool with people cleaning up after him now that I think about it

aside from all the intentional destruction outside the house lol

[atomic forge]

I remember there being a line exactly that.

Zagreus does tell Dusa to not clean his room.

[hard rose]

Yeah it's right after the first run iirc

[zinc belfry]

And several times throughout the game, it is quite clear he loves to annoy Hades, and not cleaning his room is one of them

[hard rose]

big brain: pet Cerberus after every run
galaxy brain: nyoom around behind the throne to annoy Hades every run

[brave spoke]

universe brain: Nyoom around and pet Cerberus to do maximum annoyance

[lapis elk]

Quantum Entangled Brain: Nyoom around Hades to annoy only to double back and fake out Cerberus and return to pet him again.

[somber estuary]

You just know that at some point Zag made Cerberus run zoomies behind the throne just to piss off Hades.

[lapis elk]

I am willing to venture that Zag asked Cerb to destroy the lounge for the luls

[brave spoke]

I bet that Cerberus is a good boi who deserves all the belly rubs, satyr sacks, and pets he gets and more

[stuck kettle]

Wait we can go behind the throne?

[lapis elk]

Oh yeah, you can inspect the mural too.

[stuck kettle]

WHAT

I can't believe I haven't tried it- does he say anything?

[hard rose]

Variations of "gtfo"

[graceful terrace]

Thats actually so accurate

[zinc belfry]

Gotta love how Zagreus basically lives to annoy Hades

[lapis elk]

The narrator relates to some horror that Hades is to the mortals and then Hades essentially says gtfo like melonade said.

[hard rose]

Narrator: Lord Hades, grim ruler of the underworld
Hades: Persephone my darling wife 🥺 I would do anything for you 🥺

[stuck kettle]

except raise your son in a healthy, productive way 😔

[torpid vine]

Or tell you he's, you know, alive.

A lot of 'modern' takes on Hades soften him up too much for the Persephone romance fantasy imo. Myth Hades was not soft. I really liked that when all is said and done, the Hades of this game still has a lot of work to do in order to mend his relationships. He's on the way, but things aren't perfect, they might never be... but, he's actively trying, which is more than he was at the beginning.

[hard rose]

yeah that's exactly why I like Hades and Persephone's dynamics in this game - usually I really dislike the "Mean grouchy person is soft for partner" trope because people focus a lot on the aww cuteness and gloss over how the mean person is still, well, mean to everyone else, and/or how the partner feels about the discrepancy between how they're treated vs everyone else

But in the game Persephone literally confronts Hades about this in their first meeting in years, and when Hades tries to worm his way out of apologizing to Zag she's like no no no cut your crap

Persephone knows the power she has over Hades, and uses it to push him to be a better person (god???)

Hades loves her so much he's willing to work on that even though he openly admits (to Both Perse and Zag) how uncomfortable it makes him feel

and, as he admits himself, it doesn't erase or validate any of the harm he's already done

which is, at least from the media I've experienced, already a lot for a character of this kind of trope

And like you said, this whole shebang isn't tied up as a "tadaa everything is fine" but as a starting point to get better, and it's nice to see this because life really be Like That sometimes. There are some things that can't be fixed, and we just do what we can. Which is fine!

and as a final bonus I'm also a self identified grouch who's trying to work on anger issues which makes it that much more relatable

[stuck kettle]

Honestly what I love the most about the game's writing is how Hades gets held accountable and is forced to apologize, but Persephone doesn't then expect Zag to be totally on board and forgiving right away. I think the "Do you hate your father" convo is probably the most important in the game

[spice wagon]

is defeating hades the last part of the game or is there something after beating him?

[vivid wraith]

There is more to do

[spice wagon]

how much ca?

like in terms of %

[tiny sequoia]

Uh... there's probably 2 or 3 mechanics you haven't even seen yet

And most of the story comes after

[spice wagon]

ohhh, thats good, i thought i was nearly finished...

thanks a lot 🙂

[royal ruin]

What the flip really? That’s crazy, just escaped for the first time

[stuck kettle]

yeah honestly it doesn't really even start until your first clear

Well that's not true since you can work on the side quests before your first clear but yeah, the main plotline anyway

[supple dagger]

thinking about Thanatos as a boss again and I just realized how irritating he'd be if one of his attacks was basically the equivalent of the Dire Soul Catcher in Elysium except purple butterflies.

[merry rivet]

Well couldnt Than like teleport as a baby? Poor nyx 😭😭

[tough fox]

I think I might've made made Asterius and Theseus have beef

Theseus is sad

I think I might be sad for him a little bit

[torpid vine]

Nyx's kids, and the other kids she raised (the Furies, Zag) sound like actual nightmares to raise xDD

[green haven]

Yeah

She is one hell of a mom

I wonder what Charon was like as a kid...

Hypnos was probably the easiest to take care of, just asleep all the time

[torpid vine]

Moros and the Fates, and ERIS. Oh gods, Eris...

[green haven]

Hmmm, the fates is an interesting one, cuz she never interacts with them according to her

Or maybe she just meant when they grew up, if they didn't come out fully grown, being the fates and all

[torpid vine]

I mean, Than is death and was little at one point.

Eris though... talk about the ultimate problem child.

[green haven]

I actually never bothered looking up who Eris is, I hear about her a lot tho with all things Greek mythology.

[torpid vine]

Eris is Discord

She started the whole Trojan war thing

[green haven]

Heh, discord

Ok that was dumb

[torpid vine]

She had a grand time... everyone else did not.

[green haven]

They definitely did not yeah

Wait isn't aphrodite the person that started the Trogan war? My memory isn't serving me too well

[torpid vine]

Eris rolled an apple into a party. The apple said 'for the prettiest'. So three goddesses turned to Paris, Prince of Troy and asked him to judge. Aphrodite promised Paris the most beautiful woman in the world should Paris pick her. He did. She gave him Helen.

[green haven]

Oh yeah

That's what happened

Well yeah Eris caused it but technically aphrodite was the main cause

Giving him Helen and all

[torpid vine]

Eris's whole thing is starting stuff. Can't imagine Nyx had an easy time xDD

[green haven]

Heh, yeah

[solemn flax]

he was the kind of kid asking for your lunch obolus while wildly wielding a paddle. He became so good at it, that later on all oboli were refered to as „charons‘“

[green haven]

Heh

On a bit of an unrelated note, am I the only l one who is a bit baffled by the fact that he does basically the same amount of damage as hades when he swings his oar? Like I get he has upper body strength from all the rowing and stuff but still, this is hades we're talking about

Charon is no joke

[torpid vine]

Charon is not someone anyone should cross.

[green haven]

Yeah, and not someone you should try to "borrow" money from

Still think that that bit is hilarious

[torpid vine]

Sis crossed Thanatos, Persephone and Hades... but he left Charon out of it xDD

[green haven]

Heh, yeah

Looking back at it, what sisyphus did was really really dumb

Like, did he not think about the fact the he pissed off death and king and queen of the underworld ?

I mean he knew that he wasn't gonna live forever and that he was gonna die again eventually

[stuck kettle]

Than would be harder than charon probably 😭

[tough fox]

ZAG IS THE FEATURED HOUSE SERVANT

LET'S GOOOO

[lament epoch]

nice

[vivid wraith]

nice

[vivid wraith]

good

[merry rivet]

Hey i like Theseus

[vivid wraith]

The council will decide your fate

[hard rose]

me too

over the top fictional characters are cool

[supple dagger]

personally, the best moment/s between runs I liked. I can't remember of Theseus remained mostly silent since that interaction for 3 or so runs, but I enjoyed Asterius doing most of the talking for the time, all because Asterius gave him ONE suggestion to improve their chances of winning.

speaking of which, doing a second fresh run post-release, I managed to clear up to the credits within 21 runs. And I was over here thinking I had to turn on God Mode out of frustration again.

also-also almost died in my attempted to clear Chaos' request for the Chaos Egg.

[hard rose]

I still get amused at how all these stories came to exist because (presumably) long ago people thought "hmm why is the weather like that, let's explain it with 4 OCs"

[zinc belfry]

Humanity is a creative race, my friend, haha

[storm marlin]

Aphrodite has a husband!?

[vivid wraith]

they come and go

[open finch]

She has many lovers-Hermes and Ares among them, but she's married to Hephaistos/Hephaestus

[storm marlin]

OH! I forgot about Hephaestus!

I did an elementary project on him!

[stuck kettle]

Just got the "either the curtains go or I do" line when buying drapery and oh my god all the little references are just so perfect 😭

[signal thicket]

Ya know what I don't understand?

[storm marlin]

ok, so I found something really cool with the spear weapon. ||there's a conversation that Achilles and Zag have, and they mention someone by the name of "guan Yu". one google later, and he's from the three kingdoms story. then I realized that MTG made a set about that and what I saw was this.

"When Guan Yu, Sainted Warrior is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, you may shuffle Guan Yu into your library."||

that is legitimately one of the best details I've seen in this game yet!

[open berry]

guan yu was an actual historical figure, if by "three kingdoms story" you mean romance of the three kingdoms, that is essentially dramaticized writing about the three kingdoms period

[fierce estuary]

yea

[zinc belfry]

Yeah, ||Guan Yu|| was one of the many famous figures throughout history who was basically deified. The spear itself has not been proven to be an actual thing based in history, as with most legendary figures.

Honestly, I love legends for this very reason: there happens to be some basis in reality that was distanced with time. Quite beautiful, is it not?

[dense sparrow]

The spear, or more accurately the dao, has been proven to be false. The guandao was invented in about the 11th century, or at least, there were no evidence of it prior to that time period. The legend of Guan Yu inventing it was probably based on the story of him making two sabres, or daos, from some ore he found. Also in the story the Dao weighed 48 kgs.

So logically, no one should be able to use such a thing in combat

[tiny sequoia]

Except perhaps... a god

[zinc belfry]

Hence deification, haha

[zinc belfry]

"It's Tough to Be a God" starts playing

[supple dagger]

I meant to share this two days back (I think it was two days ago when it happened. Might have been yesterday). Randomly, after defeating Theseus through luck, Asterius started gliding towards me while still in a kneeling position to throw Theseus. I thought that was funny.

Also is the Shield Bash collaborative attack an Extreme Measures addition?

[atomic forge]

No, it shows up after you get the "Theseus thinks Asterius is going to betray him" story.

[supple dagger]

oh cool. because outside Bull Hauling him and the few times I get Asterius to accidentally run into Theseus, I was expecting the new attack to be thrown in by now.

[supple dagger]

also is it weird I enjoy watching Voidstones in Elysium self-destruct?

[atomic forge]

Oh, no, I keep one alive every time and talk smack at it until it blows up, unless I'm running low on time.

[supple dagger]

Heheh

Humorously, I think the first time I noticed one self-destruct was the one time I realized, it had ONE attack and I was stupid enough to stand next to it when it happened.

[zinc belfry]

Okay, yall, I decided to take a go at battling Charon.

Biggest regret.

Dude took ALL of my death defiances. And I was in Tartarus!

And yet I somehow managed to complete the run lol

[atomic forge]

Very nice! Charon in Tartarus is brutal but if you can limp along with 0 DDs long enough and get enough shops it can make for a really nutty run.

[zinc belfry]

A nutty run that I somehow survived. I was both proud of myself and extremely baffled by how I managed to pull that off lol

[full kindle]

Whoa.

Charon is brutal 😂

I only managed to beat him like once or so

[zinc belfry]

Yeah, I'm not challenging him again. 300 obols and a coupon are just not worth being utterly obliterated

cue me trying to not cry in a Starbucks

Yes, I am playing Hades in a Starbucks on my Switch, hehe

[full kindle]

Nice!

That’s the fun part of the switch!

You can play anywhere

[zinc belfry]

True! I love my switch very much.

[full kindle]

I really like it too!

[supple dagger]

humorously, I want to fight Charon again, but he won't spawn a sack to steal.

RELEASE THE OBOL GATES!

[tiny sequoia]

Bags never spawn at the end of a biome

[supple dagger]

I've played since the beta stages and the secret boss was added. I sometimes choose to visit the shop before a miniboss but it not be there like I wanted it to be. If I have to wait until Hermes gives me the quest, I can do that, but I'd LOVE to do another "I stole early in Tartarus" run.

so that I have big coin

[mental zenith]

is there a specific voice line when I have interacted with the lyre 210 times? or anything like that?

[zinc belfry]

Hermes: You know, coz, I made a bet with my professional associate that you can beat him in a battle twice in a row!
Me and Zagreus with flashbacks to our first battle: Um, I dunno-
The Fates: PROPHECY FORETOLD
Me and Zag: OH COME ON

[simple sparrow]

you can fight him?

[hard rose]

after a certain point yeah

[zinc belfry]

Yep! You can fight him after you attempt to "borrow" his obol sack

[lament epoch]

i didnt even know that they self destruct

[open finch]

Yeap there's a piece of dialogue for each level of improvement, including the last

[supple dagger]

it's fun!

[supple dagger]

I didn't either until I had one run where I managed to defeat every enemy except voidstones and then it started glowing white and produced a red wave near them.

[mental zenith]

ah ok, thank you. Do you happen to know when the levels of improvement are? Does it have to be after multiple runs or can it be just one?

[open finch]

Hmmm I'll check to see if the wiki has it-I think it's in increments of an increasing number???

The wiki doesn't say exactly as far as I can see, but you can play it 210 times in one go and you'll receive each increment's dialogue each run. So it may take 5 or so runs to reach the end of that chain of dialogue

This is only from memory so I could be wrong

[open berry]

20/60/110/210, can be done however you like. there is no limit, just an interaction cooldown

[mental zenith]

thank you both

[zinc belfry]

I was today years old when I realized that Skelly's keepsake acts as an extra death defiance because Skelly comes back himself after you deplete his health. I have no idea why it took me so long to realize that, but it was a clever detail

[vivid wraith]

:0

I never did either

[torpid vine]

Given it's origins, it may have a little more to it xDD

[supple dagger]

Fighting Theseus and Asterius randomly made me think of a boss fight in Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, where most of the threat was the bigger dude with an actual moveset and his support with two spells and a close range melee attack.

[zinc belfry]

It still makes me laugh that an actual move used by the two is Asterius throwing Theseus across the arena, especially as a fellow short person

[tawdry lagoon]

How do I get the last heart

For the gods

[rotund ether]

There's a favor for each one. Which ones do you need?

[tawdry lagoon]

Artemis

And Poseidon

I dont what I did to get Zeus's bond, and his hearts finished

[rotund ether]

For Artemis you just gotta talk to her a lot

And for Poseidon you gotta fish 18 fish

[tawdry lagoon]

How do I know

How many fish

I have gotten

@rotund ether

[rotund ether]

Don't think there's anywhere you can check that

[frozen jolt]

you can check by buying the aquarium

[somber estuary]

It says how many of each individual fish you have caught in their codex entry. Poseidon might still take his sweet time to comment on it though.

I don't know if it is required for the bond, in fact it probably is not, but I know he can have a special conversation if you catch a fish on a run and then pick up your first poseidon boon for that run afterwards.

[full kindle]

Oml I just won from Charon in Tartarus 😱😂 and only lost one DD. This was my second time in a row. Guess I can cross another thing off my list now 😊

[zinc belfry]

Wow! Impressive!

[full kindle]

Ngl i was not expecting to win 😂 I just earned enough darkness to unlock a scroll and I was like. Oh well. Let’s die here 😅 except I didn’t. I did use up a loooot of my time there 😬 beat the furies with 16 seconds left on my timer

[tired vigil]

Hey I've seen a bunch of memes that Zagreus is gay but I just beat Hades and I didn't get anything like that. Are people just speculating wishful thinking?

[frozen jolt]

there are three characters which you can pursue romantically in the game, megaera, thanatos and dusa. So more accurately, zagreus would be bi

[tired vigil]

@frozen jolt thanks. I'll Google how to do it.

[zinc belfry]

Yeah, the romance comes much, much later.

[foggy glacier]

My question about dusa was legitimate and removed. I’ll reword it. How far those that story unlock to

Because I’m finding new and new things with certain romantic interests even 109 completions in, but dusa has never changed

[frozen jolt]

Dusa’s bond is different than the other romance options in that hers focuses on platonic love

[somber estuary]

Hell's premier polycule.

[foggy glacier]

K thanks buddy. Just wasn’t sure if I should expect sometbing later on.been a ton of high brow surprises to say the least 😆

[torpid vine]

You can date two options at once, and there are some interesting discussions about polyamory with other characters too.

[tiny sequoia]

I think I missed the scene where dusa gets fired

Because of how I distributed my nectar, maybe

Does that seem possible?

I'm at full bond with dusa and nyx now so.. dunno if it can still happen

[open berry]

iiiii think it still has a chance to come up, there isnt really dialogue you get locked out of

aside from conditional dialogue variations, off the top of my head

[atomic forge]

Is it possible to romance Medusa?

Like all I got was her saying she likes me back but has to focus on work or something

[stuck kettle]

She rejects you no matter what lol

[hard rose]

lol I finally got the cutscene about the admin chambers on my way to the last clear for end credits

[stuck kettle]

Good luck!

[tawdry lagoon]

How do I start the

Epilogue

I have done 8 heat

And beaten Hades more than 10 times

And have maxed out the hearts for all the gods, except Demeter

[edgy jackal]

go into his room

talk to achilles

[tawdry lagoon]

To get persophne back? I already did that

I am talking about the queens party thing

[edgy jackal]

oh idk then

[atomic forge]

Keep doing runs until you get an event with Persephone and Hades. They'll be standing behind Hades' desk when you come back from a run.

[tiny sequoia]

do you have persephone's hearts maxed out?

[atomic forge]

Definitely don't need a bond forged with Persephone to complete the epilogue.

[zinc belfry]

I have finally managed to romance Thanatos, and my god, my poor bisexual heart can barely take how much I love him.

Also, my favorite thanzag exchange has to be:
Zagreus: Here is so more ambrosia for you, Than, and no, I won't take "tch, what is this" for an answer
Thanatos, immediately after being handed ambrosia: Ugh, what is this?

[stuck kettle]

I laughed so hard at that. My favorite is probably the long hair convo

[zinc belfry]

I feel the need to insert this completely accurate tweet to showcase two of my favorite ships in the game
https://twitter.com/corviiid/status/1400852361577320452?s=19

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ (@corviiid)

thanzag is but steel is heavier than feathers. megzag is what do you mean you're at soup

Retweets

176

Likes

892

Twitter · Jun 4, 2021, 4:30 PM

[remote moss]

to romance do I have to max out my relationship with than or meg?

[tiny sequoia]

and/or, yeah

[fierce estuary]

@cerulean zodiac well to get the epilogue started u need to have high affinity with a lot of the olympians

so u probably need more ambrosia to gift them with if u havent already

[supple dagger]

I just thought about it. Does the ||Shopkeeper Boss|| unlock after ||you give him roughly 300 orbs||? That randomly hit my brain after a few attempts at doing it again but the bag not being there.

[frozen jolt]

if youve already beaten the final boss, it simply has a 22% chance of appearing in a mid-biome shop (not the shop right before the bosses)

[supple dagger]

@ Charon, make it 40% and spawn in Tartarus already. Gimme that early rewards card baybeee!

[edgy jackal]

got my first dub, I hope the epilogue makes this melancholy ending a little better lol

[fickle comet]

First win isn't the ending yet. You'll see credits roll when you reach the ending.

[rose axle]

Like I did yesterday

[edgy jackal]

yeah i know

thats what i meant

i hope the actual epilogue ends off the main story well

[fickle comet]

Epilogue is well after the ending.

[edgy jackal]

ah sorry bad phrasing

[hard rose]

I bought the Hades portrait and Zag's reaction was hilarious

"let's slather the wall with your 24/8 Grouchy Face"

[vale knot]

Zagreus? More like Sasseus

[zinc belfry]

I love how Zagreus and Hades both maintain their sassy relationship even after Persephone comes back, but it's so much more healthy, and to me, it makes it more charming.

[torpid vine]

Yeah. Hades has committed to changing himself, but it's going to take time for Zag to heal from the abuse. The mending of their relationship isn't something that would happen overnight.

[torpid vine]

Or both. At once~

[hard rose]

yeah that's exactly what I like about the ending, it's simultaneously "things won't magically go back to normal overnight" and also "becoming a better person can be an uncomfortable process but it's important that we start"

as someone who's working on temperament issues it was very relatable

[brave spoke]

I just got the ending and ||Persephone’s like CERBERUS! and doesn’t give a thought about Hades||

[hard rose]

it's the emotional equivalent of a mega slap to the face and I loved it so much

Persephone may be a sweetheart but she takes absolutely exactly Zero crap from anyone

I'd always imaged that throughout their garden conversation, Zag is off to the side mouthing holy crap and who is this guy I don't recognize him

[torpid vine]

I do like that Hades and Persephone aren't just soft-everything's-perfect too. I've seen a lot of modern takes that romanticise their relationship a little too much for my tastes.

[hard rose]

yup, people romanticize the dark person/soft person trope too much for my comfort so it was nice to see a version that's aware of and tries to address its problems

[torpid vine]

Hades (the game, not the guy) does so much that I just love in regards to its characterisation.

[waxen girder]

hey i have a question about the story with hades. Why is it that the olimpians cant know where persephone is and ifthey find out who zagreus really is why will the want to kill him? ( for context ive escaped like 4 to 5 times

[open berry]

this will be revealed in the story as you progress the narrative with more escapes :)

10 escapes will get you to the credits

[waxen girder]

ok

i thought i missed something

[drifting lily]

I have one question (i'll put it in spoiler)
||Does Hades can change his mind on the final run when he decide not to fight? Like if we take too much time to leave his Arena or if we attack him?||

[lament epoch]

No

[drifting lily]

:/ a bit bad

[brave spoke]

Man
Getting the ending to Hades on Father’s Day is very ironic

[hard rose]

it is

[somber estuary]

This is a good Father's day game but an even better Mother's day game because Zag has twice as many moms.

Huh... hey I can't believe I didn't notice this before but Theseus is the opposite with two dads! Haha!

[atomic forge]

lmao

[open finch]

I don't think Theseus is having a fun Father's day either

[vivid wraith]

If Theseus isn’t having a good time then I am

[open berry]

theseus hades game is pretty funny, theseus of myth was a horrible person among other horrible people, and frankly the bar is pretty much at the floor

[cerulean zodiac]

Theseus with his chariot is me with any new toy in a video game

[full kindle]

Bhahahaha that will never not make me chuckle 😂

[supple dagger]

Just had a fun fight with Theseus and Asterius in which I managed to knock both of their health to 50%. With both roughly around 30% to 19%, I decided to summon Than and then defeated BOTH simultaneously, though the game made it seem Asterius went first before Theseus... but Theseus had one last line after disappearing.

"Don't think that cheering is for you, monster"

[cerulean zodiac]

Is there any purpose to || fighting Hades Extreme Measures || or is it just for bragging rights?

[slate prism]

easier high heat ig

[uneven crane]

it's fun

[supple dagger]

If there isn't a minor prophecy for it, it is a fun addition and, as someone mentioned, easier heat, since you could have Extreme Measure be the only thing maxed if you were at heat... 12? is it 12? Might have to redo the math. 12 or 10 Heat where only Extreme Measures is maxed and nothing else, it makes going up in heat easier slightly.

That and bragging. I wouldn't be shocked if there's extra dialogue if you beat it... or if you don't beat it.

Fun thing I attempted: I managed to isolate the Dire Voidstone in the Barge of Death.

[vivid wraith]

EM4 isn’t good until pretty high heat most of the time

By most of the time I just mean some weapons handle it better and thus can use it at lower heats

[supple dagger]

are screenshots allowed in here? I wanna share the Lonely Dire Voidstone.

[open berry]

link embeds work

[supple dagger]

oh yeah. skskjs

[supple dagger]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4cxA5aWEAMw5mH?format=jpg&name=medium

[dawn raft]

I’ve been trying to find a discussion of this - after Zag specials with the Zeus shield, is there any explanation (in-game or otherwise) of how another shield reappears in his hands when he attacks?

[atomic forge]

It's a magical weapon forged at the dawn of time.

I think.

[night delta]

aegis? doesn't it just go whee back into his hand? im assuming it's like a boomerang

[dawn raft]

The special will stay out spinning while you attack - so there are two shields on screen. Zag shield can’t attack while the special is flying.

[night delta]

oooh. yeah im not too sure how that works

[dawn raft]

I just tried the other aspects now, too - they can’t attack until special returns

[night delta]

ig it's just a game logic(tm) thing then

[atomic forge]

Aspect of Zeus.

Before Aspects were introduced in EA there was a Hammer that made Aegis' Special travel more slowly while it did its bounces, but kept your ability to attack so you weren't left a sitting duck.

[dawn raft]

Ahh, interesting

[tiny sequoia]

I think the way it makes sense in the game is that with aspect of Zeus you don't throw the shield, you throw a different thing instead

Some sort of projectile that the shield produces

[night delta]

going off topic for a bit to say: dusa appreciation. thank you

[dreamy rune]

agree

I mean she has to go through quite a lot

[night delta]

yeah, cleaning the entire house + extra requests from everyone else

[gleaming olive]

the hades speedrun guide said "youre eligible to go to asphodel on the 4th run" so i got annoyed and beat meg on the first run

[night delta]

power move

[gleaming olive]

i just made it to lernie

i almost beat him

[night delta]

man, if lernie wasn't a violent magma hydra, i'd like him as a pet

[gleaming olive]

he was at 40% health

[night delta]

oooof, so close

[gleaming olive]

honestly same

i think he is hades' side pet

other than puppy

[night delta]

maybe im biased bc of my love of snakes, but having so many different heads to befirend sounds cook

yeah that kinda makes sense

if not a pet, certainly some worth to hades to keep in aspho

[gleaming olive]

im just gonna create new files till i beat spd wolfs record

wait i just realized which channel im in

ill go back to victory boasting

[night delta]

Hermes called me daft for trying to steal from charon

[zinc belfry]

I have arrived at the part where Theseus and Asterius are arguing...well, more accurately, Theseus is over-reacting, Asterius is somehow ridiculously calm, and Zagreus has now assumed the role of reluctant divorce lawyer.

[zinc belfry]

He just trying to comprehend who on earth (or the underworld) would fight his super strong boyfriend...which is fair

[night delta]

I've yet to see that bit oh my god

[zinc belfry]

Zagreus and I are both like "I'm just standing here-"

[night delta]

PFFT

[tiny sequoia]

Theseus: he said he's breaking up with me
Asterius: thats not what I said, king
Theseus: then what did you say
Asterius: I said we should use strategy
Theseus: That's the same thing

[zinc belfry]

Zagreus: internally debating on whether he should tease Theseus for this or just watch the chaos unfold on its own

[limber marsh]

Okay so Hestia IRL did not really have a machine gun right? And Demeter was not punchy in IRL too?
I love Demeter, shes like, all the other gods better kneel or else

[open berry]

these are inventions of hades canon, yeah. infernal arms themselves are not something that exists in a mythological context

[night delta]

honestly if greek mythos did have a machine gun, things wouldve been a lot bloodier

[brave spoke]

Yup. Achilles himself mentions there’d be bigger bloodshed if guns were in ancient geeece

[night delta]

speaking of him, some of the codex entries make me laugh particularlly the one abt the poms and where he's just
"tf are antioxidants?"

[brave spoke]

Antioxidants are fairly recent, and Achilles is technically a super old dude lmao

[limber marsh]

Okay cool, because i watched a “Blood of Zeus” on Netflix earlier this year, and hades also has a “boomerang spear” and I thought it was a thing

Also there Hera was Jean Grey so ...

[brave spoke]

I’m pretty sure Hades does have a helm of darkness, but idk about the spear. Maybe it’s because the spear was the first thing mankind made as a weapon

[night delta]

fair enough lol his entry abt the rats make me laugh too

the tiny rats

[limber marsh]

Really like how new media gives OP powers to the women gods hahahaha

[open berry]

the helm of darkness is an actual thing, this is what perseus uses when he goes after medusa. his spear is called the bident.

these are things in mythology

the infernal arms used in hades are like. partly unique to hades but also are inspired by mythos, like aegis and such. but the whole sentient weaponry that changes shape and so on is entirely hades canon

[night delta]

wasn't it orginally hermes' ? or am i thinking of something else

[open berry]

the helm was used by multiple figures

but its most famous for being used by perseus.

[night delta]

aah

[open berry]

i wanna say offhand hermes using it was during the gigantomachy i think

yes http://www.maicar.com/GML/Gigantomachy.html

but yeah either way like. hades' helm of darkness and bident are things in mythology, and hades the game takes some famous artifacts and puts its own spin on them with the infernal arms

and then we have the rail lol

[night delta]

i joked abt zag with a gun i never thought it'd actually be in the game pft

[open berry]

zag. but with a gun.

ares: 👀 📝

[tiny sequoia]

i wanna do a keepsake tierlist of how real they are

like wrt mythology

[night delta]

ares with a gun and the gods promptly try to stop him

[open berry]

in ares' defence he was a retaliatory god and did not really instigate himself so he'll probably be fine with said gun in his possession unless you piss him off

[tiny sequoia]

what an endorsement

[open berry]

my ares lovemail is not simply for ares hades game, it is ares in general :)

[tiny sequoia]

he'll probably be fine with the gun... but everyone else?

[night delta]

dio with a gun

[open berry]

well dont get on his bad side, easy peasy 😌

[night delta]

eh, fair enough

[dark marlin]

Exagryph had already been wielded by Eris in the past which is arguably worse than Ares having it lmao

[night delta]

oh true true asodjhf

[limber marsh]

Isnt she the

goddess of Discord

Hahaha

[somber estuary]

Ares is a nerd, let him try the gun.

[limber marsh]

I also like how many of the characters are nonwhite

Zag understandable since he never been sunned

[full kindle]

Yes! So much diversity in this game

[austere stirrup]

i like ares so much

the calmness in his voice

even tho hes the god of war

[open berry]

it's refreshing to have ares depicted as something other than angry shouty war man for once, yeah

[zinc belfry]

It's a very refreshing depiction of a war person in general...pun not intended.

But think about it: war is very much not just blood and guts. There's strategy in it (Athena, obvs), but also complicated emotions. Ares being portrayed this way reflects a certain depth that many war characters in the past have not been portrayed as before. And I love it.

[molten perch]

There’s also a parallel to ares and what Achilles says in the man’s codex entry

That there’s something unexplainable attractive about it—and war too I guess

[cerulean zodiac]

How do I go about earning Skelly's prizes? I've maxed our relationship out.

[hard rose]

Win a run at the indicated heat

[cerulean zodiac]

Oh okay. What heat would that be? @hard rose

For both

[hard rose]

can't remember off of memory, but if you interact with them, the requirement will appear above them

[cerulean zodiac]

What if the prizes are still yet to appear? Can I still unlock them if I do the heat?

[hard rose]

idk, maybe not

[lament epoch]

8 heat for the first one, 16 for the second, and 32 for the third

[cerulean zodiac]

Okay so I definitely need to be offered the prizes as I’ve just cleared 8 heat.

I’ve nearly got the rest of the achievements so I thought I’d be offered it by now.

[tiny sequoia]

Probably gotta talk to skelly then

[cerulean zodiac]

I’ve talked to him loads but after the || Scheleumus || conversation he’s just went back to repeating lines

[tiny sequoia]

Well you've only just cleared 8 heat, right?

[supple dagger]

I just got randomly reminded of a Q&A during the beta stages of Hades in which someone's answer to the question about "adding more fish" being "100 fishes!?"

[night delta]

the fact it took me the several runs in the beginning to realize zag had glowing feet and not weird shoes is embarrasing

[brave spoke]

NGL it’s kinda strange how Zag takes lava/magma damage despite having his feet on fire at all times lmao

[tiny sequoia]

well.... it doesn't instantly kill him

i think he's a lot more fire resistant than i am

[night delta]

he's said he resistant not immune

[marble edge]

I literally did not notice this until he was talking to ||Hades and Persephone|| after the true ending. That was like over 9000 runs or something.

[misty cape]

How do you get companions?

[tiny sequoia]

Give a lot of nectar and ambrosia to 6 specific characters

||than, meg, dusa, achilles, sisyphus, skelly||

Of course, you'll have to complete their favors, which usually just means talking to them

[unreal zodiac]

im working on those now! the darn quests haven’t popped up in work orders yet, so i must have more talking to do

[tiny sequoia]

for ||achilles and sisyphus|| you'll also need to unlock the admin room and get a little bit of hearts with nyx, i think

and for ||achilles|| you'll also need ||patroclus||, obviously

[zinc belfry]

UGH SO THAT'S WHY I CAN'T UNLOCK THE FAVOR

Time to hoard more nectar ;-;

Okay, but Dionysus'comments on how he's so proud of you for giving away all that nectar and ambrosia, and I'm just like "sir, Zagreus and I are the textbook definitions of bisexual disasters"