h1-story-discussion

[somber estuary]

And there is currently a big war in Greece

[deft sedge]

Cuz we don’t know at what rate he ages

[somber estuary]

That is after the Trojan war since Achilles has been here.

That's a long time to be without a concept of seasons. I figure in this retelling, seasons were formerly Demeter's whim until the Persephone plot happens

[tidal obsidian]

Yeah, so to the best of my memory the ancient Greeks had a creation myth that there were four versions of humans made by Prometheus. We are the fourth generation, supposedly made from iron and the most imperfect of the four.

[somber estuary]

We also know Guan Yu and Arthur have not happened yet based on the tense of their descriptions and Zag's comments.

[tidal obsidian]

Achilles and all them were the men of bronze and those people were so warlike thru eventually annihilated themselves

[deft sedge]

Gilgamesh has happened

Ofc

[somber estuary]

Tantalus has probably already happened since Demeter has been disenchanted with the novelty of mortals for a while now.

[tidal obsidian]

So my take on the story is that it's during that fantastical age of heroes that the ancient greeks considered ancient.

[deft sedge]

Ye

[deft sedge]

I still feel robbed

[somber estuary]

I would say right after. Since we know most of them are dead.

[deft sedge]

Tantalus!!

[somber estuary]

Heracles, dead. Theseus, dead. Perseus, dead. Achilles, dead.

[deft sedge]

Medusa dead

[somber estuary]

Orpheus, dead.

[deft sedge]

[somber estuary]

Medusa's faith in Athena, dead

[deft sedge]

Justice for Medusa

[somber estuary]

Summon Dusa during Athena's greater call.

[deft sedge]

Wonder if anyone has done it during Poseidon’s

[somber estuary]

Athena still has medusa imagery on her outfit, maybe there's hope for them, ha

[deft sedge]

..

After she had Medusa’s head forged onto her shield?

Her actual head

[somber estuary]

Heh. Zag aspect for Aigis should have a cute Dusa face on it instead.

[tidal obsidian]

Athena burst out of Zeus's head, maybe heads just aren't a big deal to her? They're like a big toe or something.

[somber estuary]

Hera likes to think that's where all of Zeus' wisdom ran off to.

[deft sedge]

It’s kinda a snake head now tho

You can see the fangs

[somber estuary]

[regal yacht]

what causes some shades to be bigger than others

like the broker for example

is it literally just bodyfat

[spiral saddle]

he just built like that

[open finch]

Chonky boi Broker

[spiral saddle]

yea and the chef is l o n g

[regal yacht]

weird

[deft sedge]

I mean

They were people before

Or living beings

[spiral saddle]

omg the broker was always thicc

[deft sedge]

Might just be representing their mortal guise

[regal yacht]

but they werent blobs lol

[spiral saddle]

how do you know??

[deft sedge]

They also weren’t just souls

[spiral saddle]

we havent seen any normal peolpe besides like achilles, pat, orphy, sisy

[deft sedge]

They used to have bodies

[regal yacht]

are very small blobs dead kids then

[deft sedge]

Prolly

[deft sedge]

And they’re either part of deals, jobs or punishments

[spiral saddle]

so like we really dont know :3

i like the thought of broker with flesh lol

just l a r g e

[open berry]

for reference there is no dialogue for this, only athena call

[deft sedge]

Sad

[regal yacht]

the wiki said there is unique dialogue when you get duo boons but i took vengeful mood and didnt get any

[spiral saddle]

its a chance of happening, not guaranteed

[regal yacht]

oh ok

[atomic forge]

I think the first time you get a Duo on a given file on either God you'll get specific dialogue. So if Cold Fusion spawns on a Demeter pick-up you'll get a specific line, and if it spawns on a Zeus pick-up you'll get another unique line.

And it's before you actually see the boon selection.

You'll get Demeter's lines for picking up her boon first in a run, and then the next time you take Demeter (in which it spawns Cold Fusion) you'll get dialogue before the boons.

[topaz lake]

thanatos stop scolding hypnos and talk to me challenge

[oblique vortex]

Okay, but on the topic of how shades looked before death

What is up with the hands that just vibe like in the administrative chamber?

They couldn’t have just been hands

[vestal pagoda]

Pretty sure the hand owners were like caught stealing or something and had their hands chopped off

That's why you just see some hands floating around

[oblique vortex]

Even those who doing jobs

?

[vestal pagoda]

I'm not too sure myself tbh

The codex has some info on the hands

[oblique vortex]

Hmmmmm

Okay I’ll look into it

Anyway broker do b thicc

[topaz lake]

can i only have one sidequest favour thing at once? i got asked to do one and ever since i can't seem to advance any relationships past the locked heart, but that might just be rng

[oblique vortex]

I think it’s just rng

[open finch]

Some locked hearts are locked behind story, some behind favours, and some behind dialogue

[topaz lake]

oh i see i thought they were all favours

[open finch]

Most characters have favours but not all of them unlock their hearts

I'm p sure Ares' favour unlocks his heart

[open berry]

its tied with his prophecy, yes

the favours do unlock hearts, its just that some have dialogue past completing the favour that you have to see that triggers the heart

[open finch]

Ah right 🤦‍♀️ prophecies and favours are different my b

[topaz lake]

So that portrait with baby everyone got me thinking

How does that.... Work

Like, Zagreus was a baby once we know this

[spiral saddle]

they follow a normal human growth until a certain age and then they can chose whatever form they want after a bit??

thats what im gathering

since zeus turns himself into things to get jiggy with it

and hades is just old man

[topaz lake]

Well yeah

But like, how long was zag a baby for

Like the regular amount of time??🤔

[oblique vortex]

Time doesn’t work great in underworld

[topaz lake]

Wild if so. Imagine you're alive for centuries on centuries and your new coworker is like. 19

(I'm trying to write kidfic but idk how to explain the very specific age gap involved when I can't use regular years)

[oblique vortex]

Uhh, depends on what type of kidfic it is

U could claim some types of gods and such age to maturity quicker?

[topaz lake]

It's kid!Zag, Than & Hypnos, in some vague pre-canon

The age gap is like. If it was humans, Zag would have just turned five and the twins would be 6 and a half

Bc the difference in like... An adult being like "they're only one year apart, they should get along" and that actual dynamic is very amusing

[oblique vortex]

Oh then yeah maybe they aged slower until they reach a certain age, then they age the same as zag? Cuz they nyx kids?

Also would explain why Hypnos seems so much younger than than

[topaz lake]

I'm not quite sure what you mean? Like, they took a lot longer than zag would to reach the equivalent of being 6?

Because they're canon supposed to be older right

(I'm sorry it's very late here 🙏)

[oblique vortex]

Idk

Man

Maybe they age faster??

I’m not super up to date with ages

They’re hard to keep track of

[topaz lake]

Well Hypnos and thanatos have definetly been alive longer than zag has

Whether they're physiologically older is kinda a mystery

I think what I need to do is make up a set of rules and stick to it

[open finch]

Most fics usually do their own thing, making Hypnos and Thanatos a few years older, I know a few that made them roughly the same age, and I know one or two that made them practically adults when Zagreus was born. In canon we don't know for sure other than Thanatos and Hypnos did see ||Persephone|| a few times, and Achilles arrived after she had left iirc. However it can also be inferred that the trio didn't grow up together, implying that the twins are much older than Zag

But since it's a fanfic you can do whatever you want really, people aren't too picky on that especially since there isn't a concrete time.

[topaz lake]

Oh definitely, it's my silly little narrative and I'm gonna do what I want

[open finch]

Yis noice

[topaz lake]

I'm just kinda struggling for wording because there's a very specific vibe of that kind of like... Friendship with a kid that's slightly older/younger in the grand scheme of things, but to you seems like the coolest most mature person ever/a literal baby

Am I overthinking a story abt bby!zag not being able to see well in the dark? Perhaps

[open finch]

Lemme just answer the latter part instead of going full essay mode on this 💀

[open finch]

So like an older cousin that's like 2-3/5-6 years older than you but still in the same age range that hanging out doesn't feel awkward? Like watching an older sibling play video games that you can't play yet?

[topaz lake]

Yeah! And like from the other side of that

[open finch]

It's fanfiction-you must overthink

[topaz lake]

I have a cousin who's I think about 20 months younger than me, and when we were little kids, I hated playing with him because he was just younger enough than me to be a BABY in my opinion.

I distinctly remember being 5 or 6 years old and feeling an immense sense of superiority because I could ride a bike and he couldn't

[spice coral]

lol

[topaz lake]

He told me once he really looked up to me growing up and I was like???? Bc I spent 90% of our childhood pouring sand on his head

[spice coral]

I have a similar story

[open finch]

So do you want the positive side of that older sibling/cousin dynamic or the ew Zag you're too baby plz let go of me side?

[spice coral]

positive for me

[topaz lake]

Positive. Than is a benevolent older kid, unlike me

[open finch]

Ah ye that can work :}

[topaz lake]

(& Hypnos but he's less important lol)

[spice coral]

I love Zag

And Than

[open finch]

Considering Zagreus considers Than his BFF and Than throws a lil temper tantrum that you left clearly they were close growing up

[topaz lake]

My hc is that Than saw bby zag once and was immediately like "I would kill and die for you" and Hypnos saw baby Zag and was like "I don't like him send him back"

I think I'll just describe smol!zag as "somewhat younger" and then context clues the rest of it

[oblique vortex]

“just barely Young enough to make a difference”

[topaz lake]

Oooh that's a good turn of phrase

[surreal sluice]

Hi y'all, I joined this server cuz I had a lot of questions?

[topaz lake]

The gap is enough that someone is DEFINITELY in trouble when he gets hurt

Oh whoop hello yes what's up I'll stop rambling

[surreal sluice]

What are the odds of finding a fishing point after beating the main story, because I feel like its a lot less now that you don't cross 3 screen to get to Persephone anymore

I also never run into Orpheus and Eurydice after beating the main story lmao

[topaz lake]

If fish were gonna spawn on the surface they spawn in the final boss room instead

[surreal sluice]

They used to spawn on the path to Persephone, or at her place as well

[oblique vortex]

That makes sense, it explains why of all rooms last boss room seems to have highest chance of gosh

Fish

[surreal sluice]

I feel my odds of finding fish on the surface are just lower overall after beating the main story

[topaz lake]

Yes, but because they can't anymore they'll spawn in final boss room instead. Like if the rng says "fish on the path to persephone" it'll spawn in the final boss room

[surreal sluice]

Oh I get what you're saying

If they'd have spawned anywhere else, it'll move the location

[topaz lake]

Yeah

[spice coral]

After all of my time playing hades, I still haven't gotten all of the fish

[oblique vortex]

Exactly

Void fish are the enemy

As is that one boon from that one god that refuses to give u it, even if u have the requirements for it

[somber estuary]

Heh I got Void fish very early because I basically neve skip a Chaos gate or a Light of Ixion unless I'm already dead or broke.

[median kiln]

where are you supposed to find the documents to end sisyphus' contract

ok found it

[topaz lake]

Man where I still don't understand this

[warm summit]

I finally caught one legendary chaos fish last night.

...I had to force the fishing spot from a well of charon ><

[vestal pagoda]

If it works it works

[warm summit]

yes!

I rerolled that well twice to find the lure 😛

[crimson prawn]

Does anything happen if you keep on giving Bouldy nectar?

[open berry]

besides the random buff? no

[topaz lake]

is there a ship name for persephone/nyx?

[crimson prawn]

There’s a random buff from bouldy?

[open berry]

:) check your boons next time

[crimson prawn]

Yoooo that’s hype

I love bouldy

[obtuse bridge]

wait, you get a boon from bouldy?

I didnt know that

is it just a reandom boon?

[civic barn]

it's things like 5% move speed or 2% damage buff

nothing huge

but it's bouldy so why wouldn't you give him nectar

[errant pecan]

how long did zagreus believe that nyx was his mother

[civic barn]

how old is he?

[atomic forge]

He looks early-mid-20s but is implied to be significantly older. I'd guess maybe pushing upwards of 100 or so.

[errant pecan]

lol i wonder if hypnos knew that he wasnt his real brother

[somber estuary]

||Cthmomic||

[prime mulch]

I dont see any ship potential there

[topaz lake]

between persephone and nyx?

[topaz lake]

legit???

[prime mulch]

Ye

[topaz lake]

fair enough! I do :)

[prime mulch]

In what sense?

[topaz lake]

Persephone & Nyx have a lot of dialogue lines about how much they value eachother and the solace they take in eachother and how much they missed eachother while persephone was away from the underworld

[prime mulch]

I recall that but i dont think its that concrete

[topaz lake]

It could be platonic, it could also not 🤷‍♀️

it could be implying a romantic past, it could also not 🤷‍♀️

I just think they're neat

[open berry]

||Perse:...I just don't know how I can ever repay you. For raising him. For everything. After I left... besides old Cerberus, I think maybe I missed you most of all.
Nyx: I can remember feeling similar emotions at the time. However, it is quite unnecessary to give thanks to me this way. You are the Queen, safely returned where you belong. I did what anybody would have in my place.
Perse: Anybody would have lovingly raised my estranged son, while keeping safe my secret, eventually orchestrating an elaborate plot to reunite him with me, so that I might someday return, to have a Nectar with them in the lounge?
Nyx: Precisely, yes.||

[topaz lake]

Yeah, like that!

[open berry]

||Zag: Nyx, can you... tell me more about my birthmother? Anything at all. What was she like, when you first met? What did you think of her?
Nyx: Your birthmother left a strong impression on us, child. It was apparent she was from a far-off place, and yet... she brought with her a lightness I had not experienced before. My first impression soon subsided, and I grew to care for her. You possess many of her finer qualities.||

think the rest of nyx's dialogue about her is bits of general backstory stuff and mostly just telling zag she cant tell him anything

[simple plaza]

How do I unlock Aphrodite’s last heart? ive gotten all hearts for meg,than and dusa yet her last heart is still unlocked? what should i do?

[open berry]

keep talking to her

theres no way to force dialogue so if the unlock isnt coming up you'll just have to keep chasing after her boons.

[somber estuary]

Platonic ships are technically the ideal ships! Haha, philosophy joke! (Imagine me flexing like Plato while you read this)

[prime mulch]

What

[radiant ermine]

Plato is my favorite wrestler.

[topaz lake]

Okay, so, canonically the dash ability is zag Trying his Best, which I think is hilarious

is it fanon that he lacks that skill bc he's not like, fully the god of anything yet & will grow to be more powerful?

[topaz lake]

Like does he suck or is he just not finished developing his powers

[open berry]

up to fan interpretation, canon doesnt elaborate beyond the one convo he has with thanatos about it

[somber estuary]

Yeah, Plato was supposedly his nickname because he was a philosopher but also a professional wrestler and "Plato" is like the ancient greek version of nicknaming yourself "Thicc". Also, "Platonic Idealism".

[vestal hill]

platonic can mean both friendship and the ideal form of something

gods i hate plato so much

i would say i want to beat him to death but hed do it first

he was stronk

[somber estuary]

His contemporaries might have been joking when they said that Plato could win an argument by standing up and flexing. Might have been joking.

[prime mulch]

Plato vs diogenes tho

[atomic forge]

Persephone's second line is my favorite writing gag Hades has. I think mostly Zag and Persephone do it, though.

[royal wadi]

I sad there are no interactions between Hermes and Thanatos ingame 😔

They'd run into each other on the job since they both bring mortal souls to the underworld right

[somber estuary]

This is why I say that Charon's Shops should have other NPCs visiting them from time to time so that they can interact with each other and Charon.

[autumn tinsel]

Diogenes was just the giga chad of the time

Not even alexander the great could stop him

[oblique vortex]

Man Alexander the Great deeply admired him

[radiant ermine]

Please get out of the way of my sun, there's a good lad Alexander.

[meager scroll]

Real talk Charon is both creepy and adorable.

[gaunt storm]

frfr

[unreal mesa]

T r u t h! He was probably the first of second char whose bond I maxed

[gaunt storm]

||I just got Persephone back!||

[vestal pagoda]

First bond I forged was with dog

Only option tbh

[autumn tinsel]

i still havent forged the bond with Cerberus

[gaunt storm]

I've only forged a bond with meg and ares

[autumn tinsel]

he isnt in the house like 80% of the time and i cba to reset to continue his story lol

[gaunt storm]

tryna get thanatos rn

[unreal mesa]

I've forged most bonds in the house but I can't get Hypnos' favor. Nyx's is a work in progress bc I don't have enough darkness

[gaunt storm]

does the darkness need to be in my inventory for the favor?

or can I put it in the mirror?

[wicked creek]

i honestly just used key to buy the thing required for favor lol

i meant i removed darkness from mirror to get it

[gaunt storm]

smort

[unreal mesa]

No, ||you need to pay with darkness at the House Contractor to repair the sigil from the Administrative Chamber||

That's Nyx's favor

[wicked creek]

less-spoiley way of saying it i suppose: ||you need to pay with darkness for something||

[unkempt geyser]

i found this pic that looks like the final boss fight area!

https://64.media.tumblr.com/a99d41fe8ce1da204fd12c23aface313/tumblr_nwiwnjOms01skelofo2_500.jpg

[simple plaza]

I don't know if this really counts here? But everyone seems alot taller then zagreus in the game ? Is there a cannon height for him?

[open berry]

there is not. some people take the heights of ingame models as actual heights, some headcanon heights however they want

[spiral saddle]

my HC is that zag is 5'6 and everyone else is minimum 5'10

[deft sedge]

My HC is that the gods and other such beings can change their size at will & Zag just doesn’t feel like lording over everyone like his dad

Fixed size is for mortals

[open berry]

gods were known to shapeshift so yeah

[turbid prism]

also him being smaller makes him harder to hit cause smaller target

[open finch]

turns into an ant Hah Thesus try sniping me from here

[safe seal]

Does the game ever give a reason for why are the gods helping Theseus fight you?

on a side note, when you realise Theseus calls the gods when he is at 50% hp (without considering asterius) you realise how truly self centred he is

[open berry]

Poseidon explains this: ||"So, little Hades, doubtless you have seen that we upon Olympus also lend our favor to the mighty Theseus, who bars your passage from Elysium! Now, don't you take it personally, there, because our blessings go to all who deserve them. Although, we try to save the best for you!"||

[lunar kiln]

also if you pay attention to it you'll notice theseus only gets the help of gods you don't get boons from during ur run

[safe seal]

thank you!

[safe seal]

i have noticed yeah

[quaint sandal]

||after the last quest, persephone actually drops some hints of a dlc by saying something like "who knows, maybe we will figure out a way for you to leave"||

interesting

[topaz lake]

My HC is that gods can shapeshift but they have a like, default setting and Zag's just happens to be 5'5

[atomic forge]

Isn't Zag like 6'3"? He's as tall as Theseus.

Almost everyone else is either an oversized god (Hades, Nyx) or they float off the ground.

[unreal mesa]

Persephone is also shorter. Maybe because she has a mortal father?

[topaz lake]

I think the persephone 3d model is taller than zag's

but it might just be Big Hair lmao

[topaz lake]

whos to say theseus just isnt ALSO short

[regal yacht]

does the lucifer gun imply that the whole entire bible is canon in this universe but later

[atomic forge]

Some of the 4th Aspects also were past users.

I know Guan Yu, Arthur, and Beowulf are future users, but at least Gilgamesh and Lucifer are referred to in the past tense.

[open berry]

the intended interpretation is that mythology is part of world history #ask-supergiant message

beyond that is however the player chooses to take it. are biblical events canon to hades? that's really up to you.

[regal yacht]

where are they referred to?

i cant find any references of past tense

oh wait no i found one

"As he fell from grace, he nonetheless fought back in all his defiant fury."

it could still be a description of a future event

[quaint sandal]

also guan yu is the only real person from those I think

rest are myth or semi myth

[open berry]

you must not remember discussions with achilles

[regal yacht]

he said they were the fated wielders or whatever

other than that no

[open berry]

theres dialogue from olympians that is past tense as well

trying to think about ares but his are always worded like... in the present but zeus talking about lucifer is past tense

||"Now that is an entirely unusual design, even for Exagryph! So then the waking-phrase has worked. That aspect's bearer, Lucifer, was it? Struck his own lord father! Tried to, anyway. A not uncommon story it would seem."||

and achilles speaking about lucifer was a back and forth about that same topic, though achilles says that he'd never heard of lucifer, suggesting that perhaps his falling out with his father didnt work out well

i'd have to dig up the exact wording but he also suggests it may have been from a time before the titanomachy

[regal yacht]

oh right i forgot that the old testament happens in basically ancient times

i guess it makes more sense

i for some reason thought the lucifer thing happened after like jesus or whatev

[deft sedge]

No, before the garden of eden

Or around that time

[regal yacht]

yeah i never read the bibble lol

[regal yacht]

what do the shades come to the court to complain about

and what does hades "grant" them exactly

i cant really think of anything they could possibly ask of him other than being relocated to another underworld region or something

[open finch]

All shades after death go to Erebus, and Hades assigns them which realm they go to, maybe they initially state which realm they think they should be sent to and he decides? Either that or they're asking for things within the realm

[regal yacht]

the sort of question hades asks them seem to pertain about the shades complaining of an event that happened after already dying

[open finch]

"Hades can we get customary plushies please, I need my emotional support teddy since phlegathon flooded ;3;"

[unreal mesa]

"Hmmm...

Denied."

[vestal pagoda]

"after careful consideration... no"

[elder sedge]

I just got the ||real ending - lol all this time zag could have just hung out on the river and not die >_>||

[prime mulch]

Thats not the real ending

Theres a real real ending

[vestal pagoda]

epilogue basically

[elder sedge]

ooo, time to google it I guess

[oblique vortex]

I love hypnos.....

[clever ruin]

Lucifer was cast out of Heaven way before Jesus

[oblique vortex]

Yeah

Literally just done that section!

But yeh lol luci was way before Jesus

Even in the 6000 years, Jesus happened a little over 2020 years ago

Luci would have happened around 6000 or a bit prior (garden of eden) (who knows exactly when h got yeeted)

[regal yacht]

yeah yeah i know i just thought of it in a wrong direction while pondering the loer

[dense goblet]

Same here 🫂

[halcyon quail]

I am so utterly smitten with the fact that Zag is the God of Blood

It's so badass

[tidal obsidian]

Maybe he's just the god of pomegranate juice. It does look a lot like human blood.

Did you ever consider that, Alecto?

[halcyon quail]

that means he's extra delicious

[hollow flicker]

Has Alecto even tried a pomegranate before?

For all we know, she hasn't and actually thinks pom juice is blood

[open finch]

She orders the blood of her enemies at a bar, and is given the real thing someday and spits it out in disgust

[topaz lake]

I too love the god of blood thing but like wtf does a blood god do

stop you getting malaria? 🤔

[deft sedge]

He’s a suspected god of blood

I like to go by his actual myth domains cuz it’s also really fitting

Zagreus - God of rebirth & mysteries

With a little hunting on the side

[turbid prism]

He also may or may not have been Dionysus

[deft sedge]

Not in this one at least

[turbid prism]

yea. Mythology is funky like that

[deft sedge]

When he’s Dionysus he’s the son of Zeus & Persephone

[turbid prism]

I dont like this pairing

[lament epoch]

bruh

[deft sedge]

Made even better when in most stories Persephone is the daughter of Zeus & Demeter

[turbid prism]

😬

[lament epoch]

nice

[topaz lake]

greek mythology likes to keep it in the family

[topaz lake]

I love a good blood/life/rebirth combo

[open finch]

Greek mythos royal family au when?

[fringe rain]

Just got a question after looking at some hades fanart

When Zagreus dies and spawns in the house of hades blood river ( I forgot the name)

Does he just summon as his usual self or does he get reborn then age rapidly to his normal self

[lament epoch]

he just respawns

just like every god

thats as much as i know

[ruby monolith]

ikr! if ||persephone|| knew he could do that to not|| die ||why didnt he just do that???

[elder sedge]

At the end this is a great game with a good story written to fit the game and I still appreciate it

Feels like the ||immediate transition to pen-tester just to keep the game going is more jarring but I'll take it if that's what I need to get more individual stories from all these characters||

[open finch]

||Charon doesn't feel like boating Zagreus down to the house every time ||

And Zag does ask him at the beginning of he'd be willing to boat him up, but Charon says nuo

[elder sedge]

||he could maybe swim or use some wooden object to stay afloat - there's a house, take the door||

[open finch]

Ooooo there's a funny fic that was uploaded yesterday where Zag uses a bucket

[elder sedge]

||or just sit next to the river, that could be close enough||

[topaz lake]

He could just get some cloth/leather shoes, dunk them in the river and wait until they're saturated

being wet would PROBABLY stop them burning 🤔

[hollow flicker]

His feet seem to be an endless blaze though.

[topaz lake]

those fishtank stripper heels but with the waters of the styx in 'em

[brittle bough]

I

am excited for the release this week.

[topaz lake]

the what

[open berry]

physical release probably

which is friday

[spiral saddle]

then theres me just waiting for mh: rise to come out

like id love to get the physical of hades

but god ive burnt myself out of the game

[open berry]

well you can get physical copies for reasons beyond playing

i ordered it myself despite not currently owning a switch, the game and community has left a significant enough impact on me i just want to be able to display it

[hasty fiber]

hey everyone, i'm stuck on the ||family reunion|| prophecy and wondering if anyone has ideas. ||i've successfully found and invited everyone except Hermes. i've met him on runs multiple times by now but the dialogue about inviting him never seems to come up and i get other dialogue instead. should i be doing anything special when talking to Hermes? i haven't tried it with his keepsake equipped which i can try next, but jw if people have run into this before||

[wicked creek]

I don't think there's anything to do

I personally ||got to invite him on my 2nd run of inviting, I met him in both runs||

I'd actually say to ||take off plume as it might make the dialogue pool bigger||, though I don't think there's much else to do other than getting lucky..?

[open berry]

the plume wont do anything for you. i think that quest should have higher priority on dialogue so thats a bit weird its not popping up in your first few attempts. theres ultimately no way to force it so keep trying and if you're still not getting results let us know

[hasty fiber]

yeah it's strange, it may be due to me doing the ||beat chaos twice prophecy|| around the same time which might've produced higher priority Hermes dialogue? i'll just keep trying to talk to hermes though and hopefully i see it sooner rather than later. ty for the help!

[somber estuary]

[prime mulch]

:charonnom: when

[atomic forge]

I did it guys! I finished “Family Secrets”

Why is this game so FREAKING GOOD

[prime mulch]

Congrats

[tawny anvil]

Did anyone document every single piece of dialogue from the narrator you can get when being taken by styx?

i've been trying to find that but i cant

[open berry]

its on the wiki somewhere but idk if its outdated or not

[autumn tinsel]

theres text of it in pony's QOL mod

the QOL mod adds all the victory screens in the codex, and shows you which ones youve already gotten

and which ones you havent

[tawny anvil]

i'll check it out thanks

[sacred cargo]

Guys

I’m so sad

No hades 2

No dlc

What’s next

Super giant please

Bless

[lament epoch]

bruh

the game was released in september of last year

[sacred cargo]

Yes

[lament epoch]

and not much has happened

[sacred cargo]

They already confirmed no plans

For dlc

Game is 6 months old

[lament epoch]

the game is technically 2 years old

because early access started in 2018

[spiral spire]

how do i make hermes quest move foward

it has been forever since i got the locked heart

it's the only quest i'm missing

[lament epoch]

max his keepsake

[spiral spire]

it's maxed

got max and talk to him?

[deft sedge]

Equip max & talk

[lament epoch]

equip it

[deft sedge]

The rest is up to rng

[spiral spire]

alright

thanks

i'm almost done with the achievements

just need to max all keepsakes and get to 16 heat

[brittle bough]

Yes, the physical copy release of Hades this week. I'm copping it because that art book looks hot.

[dense goblet]

Wait so they're gonna release an artbook?

[quartz bison]

YEAAA i’m so excited for the hades physical release

[atomic forge]

It was a year and 5 months between Pyre's release and any new information about their follow-up (in which they released Hades on the EGS in EA ). I know we're all keyed up from the rush of Early Access but unless they have pivoted to more post-release support for Hades I think it's going to be a long time before we hear about their next effort.

[open berry]

they havent said anything about one, no. the book included in the physical release of hades is just the printed character portraits you see ingame

[dense goblet]

ohh

[topaz lake]

I finally started getting the funny deaths!

[spice coral]

wdym

[atomic forge]

Once you get the credits, you start getting the different death cards, like Zag slipping on a banana so hard he dies from hitting the ground.

My favorite is where Zag just died of boredom

IDEAS is my favorite.

[regal yacht]

why is demeter sad and wintery if persephone is still on the surface and all that

isnt she supposed to get wintery when persephone is in the underworld

in like the original mythology

[autumn tinsel]

By what i understand in the game, dem is sad because she doesn't know where Persephone went, or if she's alive

Hence, sad

[open finch]

Persephone was being hidden from everyone, so Demeter had no clue her daughter was on the surface or in the Underworld, and she thought mortals had done something to her daughter so she punished them with endless winter

[regal yacht]

im assuming shes more than the ingame distance of like 200 meters from the underworld entrance right

they either dont show you the full travel or nyx's magic conditions thing transports him to persephone

[atomic forge]

Less "mortals had done something to her daughter," more "blindly and mistakenly taking out her grief on mortals."

She chose to have a child with a mortal man.

It's a frankly bigoted response.

[open finch]

She is an Olympian-it's pretty much their thing

[atomic forge]

Absolutely.

But being bigoted is a super white American thing in 2021 and that is 110% not-okay.

We can allow Value Dissonance in a fictional work while simultaneously decrying it in the real world.

[somber estuary]

In the story of Tantalus, Demeter was the one who partook of his meal when he chopped up his own son and fed it to the gods so she kinda doesn't trust the mortals after that I would imagine?

[atomic forge]

Hades' mythology is separate from the many many different versions of ancient Greek myth.

As far as I know Tantalus has little-to-nothing to do with Hades' story.

Demeter ravaging the surface world is entirely wrapped up with her inability to deal with her daughter's disappearance.

there was a time when I thought that Demeter would be the True Final Boss

[oblique vortex]

Same

[atomic forge]

Gonna have to wait for SGG #5 before I get any proper post/superbosses, huh?

[somber estuary]

And yet both Hades and Persephone know they could save all the mortals from eternal winter if they were to speak up but they don't because things have gone on for too long since Zeus interfered and so now they are complicit in it and it takes Zagreus' meddling to force them into thinking of a solution that does not require Persephone to be imprisoned and Hades to fight Zeus until one of them ends up torn to pieces like the titans.

Ya know. Family stuff.

[atomic forge]

Except they didn't know that.

Demeter comes across as the most volatile of the Olympians and arguably the most powerful. Crossing her in any way, shape, or form could have spelled doom for not only the mortals on the surface (read: Literally the entire world's population) but also the Underworld and everyone/thing in it.

Neither Hades nor Persephone tried to "fix" the current situation because they were both deeply traumatized by the events prior to the game's beginning.

We know from a non-diagetic point of view (outside the universe of the story) that simply revealing that Persephone is alive would do a lot to alleviate Demeter's wrath, but Hades has seen what Demeter is capable of first-hand. She obliterates Hyperion, destroys him in a fashion that eclipses what Hades and his brothers do to Chronus.

It's not a stretch to claim that a Titanomachy-era Demeter would be a harder boss than EM4 (read: Titanomachy) Hades.

[vestal pagoda]

Demeter just built different

[atomic forge]

Hades and Persephone have every reason and then some to want to hide the events of their elopement.

The events of the epilogue are rightly portrayed as a gamble.

[regal yacht]

are you seriously trying to fanagle race into the funnie greek myth game

gods are rude to mortals, its basically a constant, it has nothing to do with any form of race

[atomic forge]

1. It's spelled "finagle".

2. Demeter says very clearly like 5 times in her boon dialogue that she looks down on mortals for being mortal.

Her entire beef with the mortal world is that they "stole" her daughter from her.

[regal yacht]

isnt that technically speciesm

more like "planeofexistenceism"

[atomic forge]

I used the umbrella term "bigotry".

Holding an immutable unselected attribute against someone is bigotry.

[regal yacht]

and then you mentioned america for no reason, cool

[atomic forge]

Because SGG is an American company.

That's also nationality, not race, if you want to nitpick.

[regal yacht]

im not saying you are guily of what you were describing

[atomic forge]

I don't know what the point you're trying to make is.

[regal yacht]

im mostly complaining about you making a weird connection to real world bigotry

[atomic forge]

Art reflects real life.

Greg's writing is influenced by the events that happened in the world around him before and at the time of his writing.

[regal yacht]

personally i am of an opinion that art is greater when detached from real world problems

[atomic forge]

You sound a lot like someone I spoke to last October who said that politics are just a tool to divide people, that it doesn't really impact the real world.

[regal yacht]

and also that gods are better as "incomprehensible representations of a bundle of synergising concepts" than "a person that has a fate appointed job and also magic powers" but thats a bit unrelated

i still liked hades' story so whatev

[prime mulch]

Yall being too serious

[autumn tinsel]

just play game and go shooty shooty laser smh

[atomic forge]

Sorry, we can't all be 4chan-nothing-is-real types.

Some of us give a damn about the world around us.

[autumn tinsel]

though fr, I agree with most of schpoonman's points

the connection with the real life events is real

[atomic forge]

Sometimes I wish I could turn off my empathy.

I really do.

[regal yacht]

why are you even bringing 4chan into this what

[autumn tinsel]

lol it was just a response to alpha's joke

chill

[regal yacht]

its not about turning off empathy its about exploring things you cant experience

plus theres already plenty of grounded real life stories

[atomic forge]

Are you familiar with the concept of "allegory"?

[autumn tinsel]

this message strikes me, when rereading the convo

thats just your opinion, not the objective fact

[regal yacht]

thats literally what i said yes

its right there

[autumn tinsel]

it doesnt fit in to the convo, is i guess what im trying to say

but oh well

[regal yacht]

interpretations of stories are opinions in of themselves

[atomic forge]

Yes and no.

[autumn tinsel]

there can be some objective parallels that are based in fact

[regal yacht]

well not fully

[atomic forge]

There's individual interpretations of story, and there's deliberate allegory as presented by the writer.

[regal yacht]

but atleast partially

[atomic forge]

I haven't had the fortune to really pick Greg's brain per his writing of Demeter, but given the social and political climate of America (the country in which Greg and myself live) at the time of writing, and the few chances I've had to speak candidly with him in the past, I think it's fair game to say that Demeter is a deliberate allegory for a lot of Americans, some of whom have also chosen to blame innocent people for their own mistakes or hardships and then unfairly retaliated against them.

Are mortals in the world of Hades at fault for Demeter's missing daughter? Absolutely not.

[regal yacht]

she could just be a grumpy evil grandma

[atomic forge]

She could, but none of the writing in-game supports that.

[regal yacht]

every country has evil grandmas

[atomic forge]

Probably, yeah.

But Demeter isn't Skeletor.

She, like Hades, is lashing out in confusion and grief.

Reducing her to "evil grandma" does the original myth and Greg's writing injustice.

There's more to her than that.

[oblique vortex]

Original myths also come from multiple people and retellings, so who knows what was first

But

Yeah the writing by game makers and their allegory s r important

[regal yacht]

in the original myth im pretty sure she knew what happened to persiphone every year and didnt have to blame anyone

other than hades ofc

[oblique vortex]

We can each interpret it own ways, whilst respecting the original intent

I mean

She still punished mortals

[atomic forge]

Well, Hades doesn't follow the original myths.

It takes a lot of inspiration but otherwise is its own canon.

[regal yacht]

id like if there were more characters like dusa where they are bound even less by the original stuff

[oblique vortex]

Any who, Zeus is :( in all interpretations

[stone smelt]

QUICK does anyone have any quotes from the game about Zagreus accepting the house of hades as home?

does that exist? I need quotes

I left this assesment to the last minute

[royal crypt]

just wondering

is zagreus giving dusa a ridiculous amount of ambrosia, like the +1/2/3/4 as compared to the other romances

is that supposed to be zagreus coming on too strong?

or is there another reason

[atomic forge]

A little bit.

[wicked creek]

well he did say "here, for the lounge, and you can take one for yourself" so idfk if he actually meant it for the lounge or not,~~ i'm not good with romance i'm single~~

[royal crypt]

ah ok ty yall

[chilly hawk]

So zag-boy's feet are all fiery, right?

[wicked creek]

yeah, just like his father

[chilly hawk]

So could he start a forest fire just by walking around?

[wicked creek]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[chilly hawk]

When are we getting the post-run death where he gets merced by Smokey the bear?

[atomic forge]

Potentially.

[wicked creek]

why.. do you ask? should i be scared?

post-run deaths can't happen because of that since there's too much damn snow around

[atomic forge]

Maybe Smokey is the bear that kills him in B E A R.

[chilly hawk]

You're right

[spiral saddle]

lol but he leaves tho

and dem stops the winter

[chilly hawk]

Smokey is just Pan in disguise

[wicked creek]

she said she'll "chill on it" pun intended but as far as the game goes there's still snow around the underworld entrance so

[atomic forge]

She keeps the weather around the entrance so Jen and co didn't have to design the same area twice as a reminder to Hades and herself.

[wicked creek]

||as persephone said, she will try to let the sun through again, but she won't forgive and forget so the snow will still be inflicted on us in the underworld, which i believe is made to explain why dad fights are always snowy||

[wicked creek]

yeah basically this lmao

[chilly hawk]

"Only you can stop forest fires. And only I can stop you."

Smokey the bear has a hitlist and It's Just Zagreus

Real talk tho some of those post run deaths are the funniest things ever

I love the waiting one

Or the one where thinking about all his deaths causes him to die

It's just so silly

[deft sedge]

Smokey would have to go to Greece first tho

[chilly hawk]

Where there are forests, there is Smokey

[deft sedge]

Then burn the forest & no more Smokey

Easy fix

Zagreus free to roam forever

[spiral saddle]

its like nurse joy from pokemon

[chilly hawk]

The true reason Zagreys can't leave

[spiral saddle]

every pokecenter has a nurse joy

every forest has a smokey

[deft sedge]

I love nurse joy & her family pictures

[chilly hawk]

The omnipresent and ever vigilant Smokey The Bear is the only thing standing between him and stepping on some leaves

[turbid prism]

Jfjehdjfhd. Lernie vanquished. I love it xD

[wicked creek]

ikr when the name changed to lernie for some reason that was just peak comedy to me

[obtuse bridge]

oh ik i love it

I love the relationship zag has with lernie

[wicked creek]

Lernie, if you think you're going to lose, hiss

[topaz lake]

if, i, hypothetically, want to write abt zag coming into his own as god of blood/life, what rad powers could that entail?

[deft sedge]

can I dm you a vid

?

[topaz lake]

Sure!

[somber estuary]

Rad stuff like death defiances and bloodstone affinity and pomegranate juice for blood!

and uh... strong muscles!

I kid, sort of.

[deft sedge]

fireflowers bloom in his footsteps - sudden mario crossover

[somber estuary]

My real answer is that he would do rad stuff like introducing reincarnation to the underworld for those he deemed to have served their sentences who seek a new life beyond the eternal peace in the underworld. With Hades constantly complaining that they have infinite room to expand due to being in proximity to chaos but secretly proud that Zag abuses his authority to start something new.

[spiral saddle]

or like

yk

bloodbending from avatar

[topaz lake]

Bloodbending is pretty neat!

[somber estuary]

But like, Shades have no blood and Zag doesn't seem big in the whole interfering with Mortal affairs beyond solving the issues of Gods who do. Zag's domain I feel would probably gravitate more towards abilities that make what he does easier. Namely solving problems for people who have already died or for Gods and mythical creatures. Then again, he could possibly use bloodbending to tame the waters of the styx and surf his way out faster than usual. Although I think the styx's red waters are not actually blood?

[topaz lake]

im thinking about where blood comes into play in like, ancient greek culture & life

[topaz lake]

I think the styx isn't actually blood, it's called "blood red waters" a couple times in the narration

[spiral saddle]

hehe free drink :3

[deft sedge]

the real question becomes

[somber estuary]

Uh... maybe play off of his close ties to Nyx and his foster sisters the Fates (who he has never met but still has a close tie with between what they have done for him and all the minor prophecies he has manifested for them) and give him like a blood divination? Not that his pom for brains could make good use of it, hoho

[deft sedge]

is his domain red mortal blood like his own, the golden ichor of the gods, or all blood

[topaz lake]

According to Aristotle, who was wrong about everything, blood is "the ultimate food"

[spiral saddle]

yea you get iron from it :3

[topaz lake]

(imo the ultimate food is chocolate chip flavour cliff bars)

(they're delicious)

[spiral saddle]

🤮

[somber estuary]

I wanna say all blood since his mum has affinity for plants and grandma has like literal life and stasis.

[deft sedge]

but that would mean potential control over the other gods

[topaz lake]

Hmm I was thinking mortal blood bc- yup

[deft sedge]

and they cough zeus cough would not be happy w that

[somber estuary]

Doubt he could override the blood of other gods. His influence in the divine affairs manifests directly as his cooperative nature.

He could probably shoot some wild crazy bloodstones in a divine battle once he masters or accepts his divine sphere of influence.

[topaz lake]

that's just the divine power of being a very polite young man

[somber estuary]

Heh

[deft sedge]

the power of nyx compels him

[topaz lake]

I think like, where blood comes into mortal life is important? bc that's kinda how gods work in the mythos and also i think they've got plants covered

[deft sedge]

Zagreus - God of Parentage

[topaz lake]

between persephone, demeter, and dio's whole "i'm gonna fill your ship with vines and flute noises" thing that one time

[deft sedge]

he can tell where the blood comes from

[topaz lake]

sdkfjsjdf paternity test god

[spiral saddle]

lol dionysus did that since madness god :3

[topaz lake]

he's just immortal jeremy kyle 😂

[somber estuary]

If he came into prominence as a god of blood and rebirth (rebirth too could be interpreted as both literal reincarnation but also as becoming a shade making him the caretaker of shades, and also just directly interpreted as healing mortals who pray and make offerings to him?)

sorry, I didn't finish my thought with that tangeant

[deft sedge]

I want his mystery domain in there >.>

cuz like he is a god of mysteries

he solves them

is a part of them

[topaz lake]

Blood/life makes sense bc in ancient greek medicine and stuff blood IS life

[deft sedge]

his whole existence was a mystery to some

[topaz lake]

rebirth is so fun

you can take that inn so many directions like

[deft sedge]

he's the god

of isekai

[spiral saddle]

😔

[topaz lake]

rebirth as reincarnation, as -

[somber estuary]

if he came into prominence as a god of blood and rebirth I just feel like his suite of unique powers should definitely represent well his close ties with both the Cthonic and Olympic worlds and his nature as a snarky helpful generally wonderful dude.

[topaz lake]

my dude i was gonna say some profound stuff but that just like, derailed my train of thought so badly

[deft sedge]

he's the one manifesting truck-kun everywhere

triggering rebirth & a life of mystery

where you often end up with prominent blood

[somber estuary]

Gosh I remember truck kun's debut in Minky Momo, he was so youthful and energetic then, transporting Kamen Rider action figures.

[deft sedge]

truck kun has his own manga comic

I love this idea now

cuz it ties in with the shades too

[topaz lake]

Rebirth as:

• literal reincarnation
• revolution & rebellion
• self-discovery
• convalescence and recovery

[deft sedge]

it's always so crowded in the underworld & zag only wanted to help

[somber estuary]

and solving your lingering regrets from life now that you are a shade

[spiral saddle]

lol he has hunt ties and ares has that one line of "hunting is like war" and im like huh, i want zag to govern hired killers

[deft sedge]

aah

[topaz lake]

that works so well with his whole deal

[deft sedge]

so he's the god of assassins creed then

I think I remember blood being important there too

[spiral saddle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/331316693941092362/818641243429011517/2x.gif

[deft sedge]

something about ancestors

[deft sedge]

[topaz lake]

(tangent: isekais are scary to me i don't get why youd wanna be transported to a mideaval european fanatasy I like having clean drinking water and rights)

[deft sedge]

cuz FANTASY

[spiral saddle]

^^this ttbh

[topaz lake]

all of my fantasies involve still being able to eat chilli peppers and potatos

[deft sedge]

who needs rights when you have POWER

[topaz lake]

isekai me to peru and MAYBE

[deft sedge]

[spiral saddle]

hehe fantasy peru

[somber estuary]

Imagine dying and going to like Asphodel or something amd hearing about the son of Hades causing a ruckus all the time and worrying that he's going to show up and make your afterlife hell and then just some relatively tall grey dude runs up to you with a glowing sword and is like "hey haven't seen you before, thanks for not attacking me, I'm sort of in charge of security testing around here but also like if you need anything be sure to let me know okay, want to make sure all you friendly shades are also feeling secure, you hear?"

[deft sedge]

tbh I'd be geeking out over the greek mythology

[topaz lake]

Divine power of being a very polite young man!

[deft sedge]

I'd prolly seek an audience w Hades just to ask for his autograph

[topaz lake]

I'd just be stressed

[deft sedge]

why - you're already dead

and asphodel is limbo

[topaz lake]

That's why id be stressed. I have eternity and im not doing anything productive

[somber estuary]

You'd have to make up a legitimate grievance or proposition first because I'm sure Hades considers autographs frivolous if they aren't used to approve a document...

[topaz lake]

also, there's a lot of rebirth in like.... coming out & stuff

[deft sedge]

fine, I'd issue a complaint then

[topaz lake]

tho i guess thats not super relevant given the social structure up there

[deft sedge]

I find the lack of autoghraps to be disturbing

[topaz lake]

complain about the lava and the hydra

[deft sedge]

but I love Lernie

why would I complain about my baby

Lernie is so adorable

just wanna pet & cuddle all the heads

[topaz lake]

lernie is an angel but i feel like customer service logic means you could file for that

[deft sedge]

I could complain about the lack of Lernie cuggles

[spiral saddle]

i like the blue head :3

it looks cute

with the horns and blue to pink gradient

[deft sedge]

They're all cute

[topaz lake]

Would proper god zag have sway over mortals on the surface?

[topaz lake]

lernie says trans rights

[spiral saddle]

zag: lernie, hiss if you support trans rights
lernie: HIISSSSS

[somber estuary]

Oh, that's right, Lernie... Zag doesn't understand Lernie's hisses as comprehendable language. Lernie should form a club with Charon and Tisiphone of people Zag talks to but cannot actually understand.

[deft sedge]

all gods do cuz they're gods & like people be super religious back then

[spiral saddle]

ok but hear me out, what if he understands charon

[deft sedge]

I'm so upset with zag btw

[somber estuary]

Charon speaks straight from the heart

[deft sedge]

he's so mean to Lernie - A snek
but then he get's to the surface & it's like "Prince Zagreus thinks of all sneks as his friends and greets the ones he finds in a friendly manner"

[topaz lake]

he's not that mean to lernie

[spiral saddle]

well he isnt mean to lernie, lernie is just mean to him

[deft sedge]

Lernie just doing their job
no need to go all "Hiss if you wanna be killed"

[topaz lake]

he kills asterius too

[spiral saddle]

and thus he needs to retaliate

[spiral saddle]

hes just trying to have fun with it :3

[topaz lake]

i feel like killing someone isn't all that much of an insult when it's just another day at the office

[deft sedge]

what else is a snek supposed to do?!

that's like telling someone to breathe if they wanna die

which is true

but still!

[spiral saddle]

what if i dont breathe tho

checkmate

[deft sedge]

then you ded

[spiral saddle]

like lernie doesnt have to his

he just does

[deft sedge]

poor old grandpa

he didn't have many years left

[spiral saddle]

:/

[deft sedge]

I barely knew him before he passed

[spiral saddle]

BrUh

you know me relatively well :<

[deft sedge]

It's like I can still hear him

[spiral saddle]

;w;

[deft sedge]

from beyond the grave

[spiral saddle]

[somber estuary]

Zag so far as we've known him outright rejects becoming a "proper god" when questioned about it by like Achilles, and I think that is both a combination of his general respect for shades (and by extension, mortals) as not considering himself above them and also his resentment towards his father who has until very recently been his only benchmark for what a "proper god" is like. Now that he knows he can use his influence to aid mortals (helping mom and dad solve the Uncle Zeus and Grandma Demeter problem and alleviate some of the problems mortals face against their mistakes and collateral wrath) and to aid shades with his fated authority in the underworld and now that he knows the Olympiand including his father are flawed but still have good aspects to them and has started however slightly to mend his relationshio with his father... he might be more open to the idea of accepting a divine domain.

[deft sedge]

I'm of the opinion that he doesn't have a choice in the end

he was born of 2 gods

he has no choice in the matter

[somber estuary]

I doubt he would be very demanding of mortals by his nature, probably just make offerings of faith in him for a boon to aid in recovery from illness or wounds.

[deft sedge]

he is already one

he just hasn't discovered his domain

[spiral saddle]

or he can be like "no need to kill a goat or anything, just a please will suffice"

[deft sedge]

I'd imagine there's a bit of soul searching involved

[somber estuary]

He might not have enough divine mojo to help everyone but hey he could always promise to help them as a shade too, heh

[deft sedge]

pssh as if they'd listen

[somber estuary]

Yeah, imagine an oracle contacting Zagreus and he just gives the supplicants a therapy session with advice he learned from like Nyx and Achilles.

Heh

[spiral saddle]

and then to give them back the goat he'll just bring it back to life :3

[deft sedge]

the second there's no response the sarcifices start up again

[spiral saddle]

yk rebirth and all

[topaz lake]

I don't think he'd be demanding, I think he's just a little... behind, on the god-powers business. either because he's resisting it or because he's younger or because he's got mortal blood

[deft sedge]

he's a baby

[topaz lake]

(younger than than & hypnos that is)

[deft sedge]

he's a lil kid in the celestial time frame

[topaz lake]

My entire concept of the character was shaken when i learnt that the dash is just him trying his best to teleport

that's so funny. and it says SO much

[somber estuary]

It seems like faith and offerings might have a direct effect on an Olympian's capacity for boons? So by being not very demanding or aggrandizing his boons might not be very potent but he'd probably get a steady trickle of power just from gratitude for being an upstanding guy

[deft sedge]

ye, he's a lil kid

he can't do all the big boy stuff yet

lotsa soul searching & stuff to do

and growing up

[spiral saddle]

and eating his veggies and drinking milk to get taller

[topaz lake]

I've seen a couple interpretations where accepting/gaining control over your domain is like, a mark of proper adulthood in the god-world

[deft sedge]

he also needs people to know about & believe in him

[somber estuary]

Yeah I love how Than is like "I dunno, I've just always been good at it. Can shift across the whole world, mother had a rough time tracking me as a child."

[spiral saddle]

(5'6 lookin ass zagreus)

[deft sedge]

[topaz lake]

(that's a generous estimate)

[spiral saddle]

that was a wonderful line :3

[somber estuary]

Hermes passing out pamphlets, haha

[topaz lake]

I love how all the olympians are like "aww are you gonna come visit?? thats so sweet youre doing such a good job!"

[deft sedge]

I love the dialogue between zag & nyx about fighting Charon

[spiral saddle]

5'2??

[deft sedge]

ye, they're just friendly rivals now

and it just makes me think of gai sensei & kakashi for some reason

eternal rivals

[topaz lake]

(i always kinda assumed he was abt my height, I'm 165cm)

[spiral saddle]

idk metric ;w;

[topaz lake]

we know zag can't levitate like the other gods bc if he could he would use it to reach things/float high enough to look his dad in the eye

[spiral saddle]

ik 200cm is like 6ft

[topaz lake]

uhh 5'4

[spiral saddle]

ahh ok

zag is smol

[topaz lake]

Can't-reach-the-top-shelf, kids-shoes-r-cheaper-shut-up, boyfriend's-armrest type beat

[somber estuary]

If he really needed more time in the surface he needs to first of all get on his foster sisters' good sides to maybe delay the comical deaths, and then have Daedalus make him some sort of styx camel pack or beer-hat. Also bring SPF 10,000,000 and a nice parasol and for the love of Chaos learn to tell time properly down there so he can escape during dusk and not dawn!

[deft sedge]

there is no time in the underworld

[topaz lake]

I was joking about it but the stripper heels full of styx water could legit work

[somber estuary]

Sure there is, you just have to listen carefully to the pitch of Ixion's screaming.

[topaz lake]

y'know like the fishtank ones

[deft sedge]

unless he has to be on the actual river

not just the water

but the river connected to the underworld

[spiral saddle]

LMAO

i wanna see zag in fishnets now

[somber estuary]

Ah, in that case he has to actually fight and earn the respect of the styx, Than might be willing to help, haha

[deft sedge]

Than doesn't want you to leave for long so

better get Charon on your side

[somber estuary]

Yes but the Styx is also his self proclaimed rival.

[topaz lake]

semirelated but I hc that like. Zag grows into his godly powers with all the grace of bambi on ice

[deft sedge]

still

ah

so Than is the bunny then

just bouncing & gliding along, keeping an eye on him - helping out when needed

but also casually showing off his mad skills

[topaz lake]

Someone in ancient greece, who has haemophila: ah alas the god of blood has cursed me
Zag, who is trying his best: oh no 😨 did i???

[deft sedge]

telling you to hurry up & catch up already

[topaz lake]

lmao he is

[somber estuary]

The first time Zag shoots a bloodstone.

Zag: Aaaaah!
Achilles: Wow, what did you do?
Zag, firing a stream of blood uncontrollably: AAAAAAAHHHHH!
Achilles: What did you DOOOO!?

[topaz lake]

maybe w/the heels he could actually reach stuff

[spiral saddle]

hehe its like jack jack from the incredibles

[spiral saddle]

lmao, or than puts him on his shoulders

so he can feel extra tall

[topaz lake]

ahahaha

zag also becomes god of stepladders

[spiral saddle]

the big ones at that

[topaz lake]

very amused by the idea of like. zag can bend mortal blood but he just hasn't met any

[deft sedge]

Zag never understands his full domain cuz he can't escape long enough to find out what it is

he is left with the cryptic message from achilles in the codex with no context as to its meaning other then the fact that Achilles is a shipper on deck for ThanZag

the Fates know that his powers would be too great if realised & that's why we have the comedic narrated deaths at the end of each escape

[spiral saddle]

or zag is just stupid

i prefer the thought of him being dumb

and thus constantly dying

[deft sedge]

[forest hearth]

do i need to do some special stuff in order to get the romance scene between Dusa?

i finished the game long ago and romanced meg and than but not Dusa

[royal crypt]

did you get to the part where she tells you she doesnt feel for you?

if you have the bond forged i think that's as far as the "romance" with her goes

if it's max hearts but no bond it's just a matter of talking to her enough times until she pops into your room randomly ig

[prime mulch]

Smh no arty romance

[vestal pagoda]

she is the goddess of chastity romancing her wouldnt make sense

and also theyre related

[prime mulch]

I know

[frosty dagger]

when did that stop the greek gods

[atomic forge]

Doesn't stop them, much, but the last person that tried to romance Artemis was turned into an animal and then hunted by her.

[errant pecan]

is there any romance potential between nyx and zagreus

[vestal pagoda]

Pretty sure no

I would hope not anyways

[errant pecan]

atleast they arent related! xd

[somber estuary]

Immortals are weird, mythology has weird relationships and yes lots of incest real or adopted. But even knowing all that, I never got any implcation our Zagreus has anything other than storge for Nyx and vice versa. Familial love.

That said, if I were a shade in Hades I'd simp for Nyx.

[still viper]

Yessir

[frosty dagger]

At least you wouldnt be alone in that

[topaz lake]

As a living person I already do

[obtuse bridge]

Facts

[scenic jewel]

So in the tellings of greek myths Hades is usually associated with a bident spear

Poseidon is trident, Zeus is associated with lighting bolts which look kinda like a spear

But Hades is depicted with bident spears

So the Aspect of Hades is the only aspect of the Eternal Spear which is not a bident - it's a trident

[somber estuary]

Hades has a quip about that where he claims Poseidon was so impressed by his work with Varatha that he copied him. And he'll never admit it but I suspect that implies he switched to bident spear with Gigaros partially in order to distance himself from association with his brother's trident, probably because Poseidon was becoming popular with mortals in the depiction carrying a trident.

[royal crypt]

nice theory

[white crane]

We all know orpheus was imprisoned prior to being released by zag, right? So why does he look so ghoulish compared to the fellow mortal shades who look still alive?what exactly happened to orpheus while he imprisoned?

[somber estuary]

Mmmmmm! I remember Eurydice shedding some light on what caused Orpheus' appearance to change but I cannot remember what she said.

I just remember Zag reacting in disbelief that Orpheus used to look different.

[white crane]

I remember that I think she said that his hair use to be curly or something

🥞 🥞 on an unrelated note I just made chocolate chip pancakes for the very first time

[normal shard]

How in the actual heck do I get Thanatos' heart to unlock

[elder sedge]

it's random, there's nothing for you to do

[normal shard]

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Ah well, at least I think I'm making progress on getting Hypnos' stuff to start rollin'

[static lantern]

OH YM GOD
IM IN LOVE WITH THANATOS
ASHJSAJSD

[unreal mesa]

Yes, and she also said he used to be tanner but I guess the tan disappeared due to the lack of sunlight in the Underworld.

[static lantern]

i love how the gods in game is like family, friendship, mercy and all the other good things while mythology is literally utter and total chaos

lmao

not that i complain

[topaz lake]

depression

[deft sedge]

Punishing himself

[topaz lake]

not following the curlygirl method

do y'all think a significantly younger (~7) than would ever resort to violence in an argument

[lament epoch]

yes

[topaz lake]

ok good

I am writing the silliest little story, in which he might punch meg in the face

[topaz lake]

Oh i CAN change my nickname

[charred vale]

So does the "old man" bust decoration just stop speaking when examining it after a certain number of hours?

[topaz lake]

it runs out of lines, I think?

[charred vale]

Hmm. I seem to remember that I heard several repeated lines before this week. Haven't heard it speak this week tho.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid that editing my save to add a bunch of darkness screwed with the old man's lines somehow 😂

[tidal obsidian]

I've only gotten it to speak when I acquired it

Maybe the lines just don't have a high chance of happening

[charred vale]

I've gotten it to speak around 70% of the time before this week.

But after crossing the 150 hour mark, it just doesn't speak now lmao

[topaz lake]

Oh huh idk then, I'm not that far

[charred vale]

Hmm I just tried to examine it multiple times right now and it said something. I can rest easy now lmao

[static lantern]

historians will say thanatos and zagreus were close friends

[green haven]

Heh, well it depends whether you actually went for it or not

[rocky yacht]

i mean

in my save they are

[green haven]

Well then in your time-line

Then yes

Historians will say they were "close friends"

[deft sedge]

Well ofc they’ll call us friends

That’s all he’ll ever call me

Stupid Than

[static lantern]

like achillies and patroclus

just close friends

[wicked creek]

Than.. bakadesu

[frosty dagger]

So i unlocked the resources master in hades' bedchamber

From what i understand its just a badge for bragging rights?

[lament epoch]

yeah

[dark marlin]

shudder misread that as bakudeku

[wicked creek]

should've done baka-desu

also please not that ship i oh god

[atomic forge]

I really like Dionysus, he's pretty chill. Poison dots are really good, but will Zag chill with him?

[wicked creek]

not unless he has demeter boons

[somber estuary]

Zag chills. But for laughs try choosing against Dionysus during a trial of the gods, but charging up his greater call during the trial. All gods that participate in the trials have a comment for using their greater call when they are upset with you.

[atomic forge]

Didn't get the Dio event but it sounds fun

[south flame]

is most of the story told after Persephone is back in Hades? I don't really find the game interesting anymore now that there isn't anything in the story to really work for.

[rocky yacht]

how many times have you beaten hades?

if you want to progress the main story you need to keep beating him until something happens

[south flame]

on my permanent record it says 15 but that feels really low, my questions was is bring persephone back to hades just the beginning of the story or has the majority been told already and now it's just progressing relationships and maxing out weapons.

[deft sedge]

well, you've already hit the end credits then, and it's just epilogue left & maxing relationships & doing the side stories & trying to see all dialogues left

it's a roguelite
we're lucky there's a story at all - and that it's as big as it is

[rocky yacht]

ah yea if youve passed 10 then the only thing left is epilogue and everything shadow mentioned

imo you should try getting the epilogue before dropping the game since its not really that hard to get imo

[topaz lake]

to drag my nonsense in from #off-topic-discussion, WOULD zag react badly to surface stuff bc of the lack of exposure? 🤔

[wicked creek]

he is literally allergic to the surface

"taken by the styx" is what i'm talking about

[topaz lake]

Ahahaha

he just has SUPER bad hayfever but it's ancient greece so nobody understands anaphylaxis yet

[wicked creek]

maybe he's a vampire and he's actually just dying to the sun

[supple dagger]

Zag got too much of his father's traits. Lmao

[sharp vortex]

Other than being stillborn, what do you guys think Zag's first death was?

[wicked creek]

being born

oh wait

frick i read that as "stubborn"

[warped lichen]

Probably playing with cerberus lol

[wicked creek]

well, he did say at some point "if i pet you this way you won't bite my arm off this time, okay?"

so he probably pet the wrong head and got his arm bit off, multiple times

[warped lichen]

Imaigne cerberus being a cat instead lol..

[wicked creek]

it's gonna push all the shades out of tartarus into the river

[topaz lake]

Probably fell over real bad

kids sometimes do that

[sharp vortex]

Ooooh that's a good one

[topaz lake]

Drowning?

[sharp vortex]

I don't think that he can drow. Like I don't think that he breaths

[topaz lake]

he can smell stuff

[sharp vortex]

[topaz lake]

he definitely CAN breathe

dunno if he has to

[sharp vortex]

Wasn't that eurydice that smells him

[topaz lake]

he talks about how bad the satyr sacks smell

[wicked creek]

well he breathed in flowers when he was in the surface and died from allergen, the fact he even tried it is hint that he can smell

[sharp vortex]

Yeah you guys are right. I'm just thinking about that onion

[topaz lake]

this is still the funniest death to me. Like, imagine you fight all the way through the underworld and kill a god, only to get MURKED by pollen

[wicked creek]

?

[topaz lake]

What about the onion?

[wicked creek]

what about

[sharp vortex]

Zag eats it whole and eurydice smells him

[topaz lake]

ohh

[wicked creek]

oh huh, i never did that

[topaz lake]

i mean, eating a whole onion doesn't mean he can't have a sense of smell, it just means he's cursed like that

one of the dancers in my mum's company used to eat a whole raw onion for lunch every day 🤢

[wicked creek]

well, i don't question other people

[topaz lake]

I can respect that she must have REALLY liked onions

omg tea is your icon a lizard wizard

[wicked creek]

oh my god it is

[sharp vortex]

Anyway back to Zag's first death. I do like the idea of Cerberus killing him because I was hoping that it wasn't from Hades. I was thinking of somebody like achilles or meg.

[topaz lake]

Were he and Meg kids at the same time?

because if so I can definitely see it being meg

[sharp vortex]

@topaz lake yes. It's actually a bearded dragon. I used to have one they're very sweet.

[topaz lake]

that

is so cute

[topaz lake]

I think it kind of depends on how old (developmentally) you think he was when he first died?

[wicked creek]

nah

than and meg knew each other long before he was born, according to meg

so yeah

[topaz lake]

ehhh

depending on how gods age they could still have both been some variety of children

[wicked creek]

some variety of children, possible

according to achilles than and zag were childhood friends

[topaz lake]

I just kinda assumed meg was oldest

[open berry]

its more likely that than was a sort of companion for zagreus as a child more than them actually being children together. thanatos speaks of having known persephone before she left, and is implied to have been working. zag wasnt even born yet at this point

[wicked creek]

it's hard to describe what a child, or childhood is

at this point we don't even know if they're teens, adults, both???

[open berry]

theyre adults

theres a reply in the reddit ama somewhere where greg remarks that zag appears as a young adult in his 20s, but his actual age is unknown

he has stated on twitter that zag and thanatos are childhood friends, and i think people take this in a literal sense that they were children together, especially due to that cerberus portrait, but the narrative directly contradicts that

[wicked creek]

yeah i said one myself

though again, for all we know, zag and than age differently too, one is born of darkness and the other of gods-

[open berry]

theres not a whole lot of people in the house so its just more likely that thanatos was a constant for zagreus to attach himself to when he was a younger god

found it https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ixri6b/we_are_supergiant_games_creators_of_hades_pyre/g68tos4/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Does Zagreus have a canon age?

No; the gods are deathless and immortal. Time means little to them. No telling how old he is. In human age, he appears to be a young man in his early 20s. We know the relative ages of characters. We know characters such as Megaera and Thanatos are older than Zagreus, for example. We know Hades is the eldest among his brothers Poseidon and Zeus, stuff like that.

[wicked creek]

oh yeah he does refer to them as his little brothers which i find cute

[round basalt]

They could all easily be 1000+ years old

[open berry]

oh millennia even 😄

[wicked creek]

you never know

[coral narwhal]

Is the game trying to tell me I can't woe dusa and meg at the same time?

woo*

[deft sedge]

you can woo everyone applicaple at the same time

than, meg, dusa

you just need enough ambrosia

[coral narwhal]

I have 12

Good ol 12 pack

That's a good weekend right there

[topaz lake]

I am trying to write about a smol (10ish) zagreus, approx what would that have been like?

is that old enough for weapons