nope
#h1-story-discussion
winged dagger
late nacelle
That might help with all the spawned enemies AoEing them
winged dagger
ty !
late nacelle
It's really powerful, especially as you can charge it in safety and then rush in and decimate them
sick grove
Doesn't it do like 200 damage at base value
And then with Artemis dash it does an insane 400
lime yoke
we should probably be in gameplay but whatever xD
do attack's boons work with spin attack too?
restive elk
yes
lime yoke
bruh
restive elk
But it's like 100 original damage on spin 200 on backstabs
lime yoke
can you dash 3 times or just once when its charged?
restive elk
1
late nacelle
You can dash 3 times but it does the spin attack on the 1st 1
So you can do the damage
and then run off with ur other 2 dashes
winged dagger
how much do you use the B projectiles ?
neat crow
If releases as soon as your first dash ends
neat crow
I use cast a fair bit
restive elk
I use cast all the time
late nacelle
I think they might be reworking casts in the new update which sounds cool
neat crow
Sometimes just as an opening salvo on bosses, even when not running a cast build. Free 200 damage
lime yoke
sometimes with meh boons i just ignore it
late nacelle
Cast is nice when you're kinda unupgraded cus 50 base damage aint bad haha
winged dagger
and how often do you do the "chest events" when you need to kill the room asap for golds ?N
please
late nacelle
I only use it when I have a good setup for swarms
Like for multiple enemies
Otherwise it can get a bit dangerous
Especially in small rooms
neat crow
I use it if I'm likewise running a strong(ish) build
left pelican
I always do it when i know i can survive it, gold and darkness plus the chance for a key or ambrosia is nice
late nacelle
WAIT
winged dagger
thanks a lot for your time :)
late nacelle
You can get ambrosia from it?!
neat crow
Yup
left pelican
yep
lime yoke
ye i only do them when i know i can deal with them xD
winged dagger
ambrosia = ? :p
left pelican
yellow bottles
late nacelle
The orange vials
winged dagger
oh the gifts things ?
left pelican
Yellow orange bottle vials
lime yoke
yup
neat crow
Be careful though, you have to actually pick up drops that aren't Obol or Darkness from the chest
So you can miss them if you aren't paying attention
late nacelle
What's the chances of getting them? Because idk if i've missed them or just been unlucky or what
neat crow
No idea, honestly
left pelican
its not a high chance but the chance is there
neat crow
During my playing last night I probably did a half dozen chests and got 2 bottles of ambrosia
But that was unusual
late nacelle
I can't wait for the hearts to be unlocked so I can use all my stockpiled ambrosia
neat crow
You might have missed some, I almost did last night... Started walking away from one and turned back when I saw it floating on top of the chest
left pelican
What feels bad is when the chest is near the exit and you see the key or ambrosia as you leave the room...
neat crow
You can also get food from chests too, as I just found out
lime yoke
oh wow
late nacelle
Damn, I might start doing chests more regularly in that case
neat crow
Again, chances for things that aren't Obol or Darkness are pretty low
I almost always get a tiny bit of Darkness
late nacelle
I reckon on a run with mirror bonuses I can do most chests without losing health
yeah usually like 3 i think
atomic forge
chests are the best thing to get in the first zones
as you should be able to avoid dmg
in apshodel i wouldnt do it though
you have a high chance of getting dangerous combinations (like superspam armored witches + blue crystals) while you cant maneuver freely ^_^
and ive gotten ambrosia bottles or food from chests too
idle trout
Ares his work ensures humans never reach godhood man that’s crazy
Little weird though
Funny how the gods act like humans especially when you have to choose a boon between them
And totally f you over if don’t pick one or the other
neat crow
Greek gods are quite petty
bleak osprey
i mean, yeah, that's kind of how the greek gods are in a lot of the myths
neat crow
Or fickle is maybe a better term?
idle trout
Selfish too
stable hound
greek gods are exceedingly petty
idle trout
Even though they do help sometimes
stable hound
they are humans with too much power
which is how the mythos works iirc
they are just people that lived long enough to become gods
neat crow
I'm pretty sure that's not how it goes in Greek mythology 
bleak osprey
it is not
neat crow
The Greek gods were born from the Elder gods
stable hound
might just be crossing my myths then, but they are still basically kids :P
bleak osprey
(titans, actually)
neat crow
And humans arose from the remains of Zagreus/Dionysus and the Titans (at least in one account)
bleak osprey
because that's how mythology be
neat crow
'cause it was written by a lot of different people over a long period of time
Retellings and the storytellers own personal embellishments/biases affect the mythology over the years
Not to mention large gaps and incomplete information
idle trout
Yeah and maybe the had a little too much wine and some other stuff...
If you know what I mean
sleek cape
The whole ares prevents humans from reaching god hood is quite interesting
tawdry island
lol
frozen jolt
@rigid fractal spoilers! he already does sing
strange cipher
If you do a thing that nobody would think to do.
rigid fractal
why does the wiki not contain that information?
it lists darren korb as singing voice but then explicitly states that he does not sing
uncut sail
mine sings
rigid fractal
i figured the info on the singing voice was from an interview etc but they hadn't implemented it yet
bleak osprey
"thing that nobody would think to do" you mean there are people that DON'T shower all the characters in ambrosia
frozen jolt
youd be surprised sparrow
uncut sail
what do you do then with ambrosia?
stark tulip
Max hearts? don’t matter ur getting ambrosia
rigid fractal
well you need to play for a while, i'm still getting the keepsakes
frozen jolt
the patch notes DID say "A certain court musician now is more susceptible to persuasion"
rigid fractal
yeah but keepsakes go first
frozen jolt
well, that doesnt mean he doesnt sing
just that there are certain conditions to that
rigid fractal
which i didn't know until just now
strange cipher
Yeah
It's currently convoluted to get him to sing.
It's essentially a super hidden easter egg.
runic terrace
????? its GIFTS
strange cipher
Why would anyone THINK to try.
runic terrace
for your FRIENDS
frozen jolt
??????
bleak osprey
goddamn it's almost like i care about the characters and want to give them nice things, dude!
runic terrace
yeah....
strange cipher
At this point it feels like a very pointless mechanic.
strange cipher
It does nothing but introduce dialogue like, "Here's a gift." "Thank you."
spring scaffold
Why would you not want more dialogue?
frozen jolt
if youre invested in hearing him sing but not invested in extra dialogue just listen to the song on youtube
atomic forge
at the very least , there s a reason there s a number of hearts in the codex 👀
rigid fractal
i have to concur... trading a boon or other room reward for essentially one line of dialogue hasn't been worth it so far. only now that i've maxed out most of the upgrades i'm starting to consider it
bleak osprey
it's dialogue with the characters that can give more insight into the characters and some of them unlock more conversations
spring scaffold
Plus, by the point you get Orpheus for the first time, you already have at least half the keepsakes.
strange cipher
@bleak osprey But it's never anything interesting!
bleak osprey
yes it is!
spring scaffold
Even without trading boons for it, there are so many times I get ambrosia rooms with no other choice or get ambrosia in chests.
runic terrace
its nice to see them appreciate a gift, or in hades case, not appreciate
strange cipher
Okay?
stark tulip
I think there’s also gifts that happen after the first heart
bleak osprey
there aren't
strange cipher
It comes across is optional and pointless in the current build.
stark tulip
Oh huh
bleak osprey
dude
bleak osprey
just because you, personally, don't want to do a thing, does not make it pointless
lime yoke
if its pointless then how'd it already break my heart
rigid fractal
some of the thank-you lines are funny. i maxed out charon just to see if he'll ever say a word....
bleak osprey
i don't like this thing therefore it's useless
lime yoke
maybe you just dont care about the lore
spring scaffold
It's a Supergiant game. The characters are the actual important part.
frozen jolt
not everything in a game has to have a purpose and make you more powerful. sometimes things are just there because they are nice
runic terrace
ah well, play how youd like! but its valued to other people
lime yoke
which is fair
rigid fractal
@bleak osprey i think hades' gift is on the second one
strange cipher
I care about the lore, I just haven't gotten anything interesting from giving people gifts, after the first time.
bleak osprey
hades doesn't have a gift
strange cipher
And I've given a bunch.
lime yoke
but imo not caring about lore in supergiant's games is pointless
bleak osprey
you can't give him more than one atm anyway
runic terrace
im worried like this is coming across as ganging up a little oops
but in general, the games got a lot in it- something for everyone!
spring scaffold
You get plenty of cute dialogue from giving more ambrosia to characters. Giving one to Dusa is enough to make my heart melt.
rigid fractal
Dusa chat is always ❤
strange cipher
Taking a step back.
From my perspective as a player, I haven't noticed incentive to keep giving gifts. The dialogue that I've encountered has been shallow and hasn't indicated that there's any mechanical point to it, and so I wouldn't think to fill out someone's hearts, because there's no indication there's any reason to in this build.
That's just been my personal experience.
I got the impression it's there as the groundwork for a more expanded mechanic in future builds.
As nothing indicated otherwise.
rigid fractal
I had the same impression - both the artwork for the hearts in the codex and the whole mystery locked-heart thing make it seem unfinished. even if the dialogue is cute, this is the only room reward entirely unrelated to the actual game once you have the keepsakes
bleak osprey
also for the record i edited orpheus's wiki page so now it does explain how to make him sing
since apparently it's a super secret hidden mechanic and all
strange cipher
It is. 😃
rigid fractal
thanks
strange cipher
In other news I finished my run so I could give Orpheus the final ambrosia.
rigid fractal
😄 congrats
sick grove
In defense of ambrosias:
-there are still a lot of hearts locked, so in-game incentives in the form of trinkets/game rewards might still be locked away
-ambrosias focus on getting to know characters and their personalities, instead of heavily-oriented plot exposition.
-giving an ambrosia to someone the first time gives you something in return, to incentivize you talking to everyone before singling out one person to invest in.
-being able to invest so much in ambrosias now seems to be the devs way of 'cutting out the grind' for the next stage of in-game rewards, giving players who don't care about characters a reason to fill out the current amount of hearts.
-choosing to favor one person over the other is a great mechanic, in my eyes, as so much of this game seems to be others choosing to favor you. This reciprocation is greatly appreciated, and seems core to defining Zag's good nature.
runic terrace
I think at this point anyone who dislikes ambrosia is well aware of why we like it ;; these are good points, im just here to pre emptively ward off a second argument 👌
sick grove
👌
amber canyon
Honestly, I think the items used to unlock simply shouldnt override useful drops
fringe niche
yep, maxing out stuff isnt hardest thing to do, having excess dark, keys, and ambrosia is kind of annoying
sick grove
In order to appreciate the good rewards you have to have bad rewards. Bad runs make good runs feel even better. Pacing the power spikes of runs apart, while still giving rewards for the overarching progression system, is nice. I do agree there needs to be some alternative usage system for these items, but that should be coming soon.
visual laurel
also idk about y'all but i spent a few runs purposefully grinding for ambrosia 😂 back before i'd maxed all the gods, which isn't the easiest thing to do, i jumped at the chance to get ambrosia rooms because i hadn't gotten all the keepsakes yet...as the game stretches out to its proper length, i think a lot of these issues will work themselves out in the pacing changes
SGG has also said they have some kind of system for addressing the excess keys and darkness
coming up in this update
probably.
rigid fractal
the good-bad tradeoff is an excuse SGG has never allowed itself down to; all their previous games have fully denied that any aspect of the game has to be bad to make others good
lime yoke
yeah i did that
fringe niche
interesting idea would be to spend resources pre-run to make run tougher. +50% enemy health per ambrosia, +50% enemy damage per key, and +10% enemy attack animation speed per 100 dark. combine as you want
rigid fractal
but yeah, how do other roguelikes deal with endgame accummulation?
sick grove
It's... Called RNG. It's a type of reward system, and it's a balancing act. They're addressing the end game reward system. But the progression seems fine for how much of the game is there.
lime yoke
likely to be an option in the future, Aeon
visual laurel
The game's in EA so it makes sense they don't quite have a perfect "infinite replayability" system up yet
You can't blame the game for that when you've played way more runs than its currently built to be fun for
I am curious about other roguelites and how they handle item accumulation
fringe niche
what do you mean? i'm still having fun even in 100+ runs in
lime yoke
they probably forgot to think about people playing so much they hoarded a lot of keys and ambrosia xD it's their first early access and roguelike game
visual laurel
For some people who are really bothered by the darkness/key accumulation or the "useless" items
lime yoke
there's bound to be some mistakes or just... things they didnt even expect to become a problem
rigid fractal
well... maybe more #h1-builds-and-combat i guess?
visual laurel
I'm just saying I uh, I'm not sure it's meant to be...played that much yet? I guess, haha
sick grove
I've already played this game four times the amount I've played through Transistor, as well, and the game isn't even done yet. Excited to see how they address this issue! That's all I'll say.
visual laurel
But yeah! I'm excited to see how it grows and changes ^^
rigid fractal
yep
i do have a very low-flame hope that they find some way to shift the balance between play and story a bit more towards the story side of things... 😅 but i guess after having a very story-heavy Pyre SGG wanted to make something with more gameplay focus
amber canyon
I think its more that they always try to do something new
rigid fractal
yes i love the characters and i'm gonna run out there as often as it takes to chat with my pal possy, but i'd like more... stuff happening. story to go along with the characters
amber canyon
Transistor and Bastion were the closest to each other, and they were not even that close
rigid fractal
so far it feels like 90% backstory and very little ... present-story. forward-story? frontstory.
lime yoke
when they announced the game
one of the first things they said about current state of early access
was to think of it like a pilot episode for a series
so i wouldn't worry too much, they've got a plan
sick grove
Maybe wait for the entire content then, if you think it'll deliver a more engaging story. I'm sure the pacing of how these character's will be delivered will change drastically.
It's like binge watching a show versus waiting for a new season. Different crowds, different vibes, different community.
lime yoke
yea
sick grove
I know I've considered holding off, as well, on ambrosias and the like, until the narrative arc was more or less complete.
The relationship we have with this game is fundamentally different to any other SGG game before, due to the nature of its release. I'm excited to see all the pros and cons.
lime yoke
on one hand, i'm really impatient. on the other, in the binge watching era, i kinda miss the weekly episodes xD so i guess Hades is kinda refreshing
rigid fractal
yeah actually after my very first couple of runs i realised i had my expectations too high and got disappointed if i'm honest. i was considering leaving it until "full release" (which tartarus forbid sgg will achieve i'm sure). but then i got too tempted 
sick grove
I honestly might do the same? But so far I've enjoyed myself immensely.
rigid fractal
and now i'm hooked 😅
amber canyon
I just played it until I got a bunch of wins with all weapons
Then took a break til this content update
sick grove
Yup.
amber canyon
I imagine Ill continue doing that for a while
rigid fractal
yeah i also said "at least try until you've reached semi-maturity in the upgrades", and then i met poseidon and man that dude
lime yoke
there's only so many times you can experience the same stuff before you get tired of it xD
amber canyon
Yeah .... riiight .......
rigid fractal
sounds like a good way to go
amber canyon
Hides 9 years of playing the same game under a rug
lime yoke
guess you havent reached the 'so many times' part for that game yet xP
amber canyon
I mean its PvP, so that part doesnt exist, I suppose
Though I also know someone who has like 6k hours in one of the Monster Hunter games
lime yoke
thats fair
rigid fractal
well those are designed for people with ... way... too much time 😉
(as far as i've heard, can't really speak from experience)
amber canyon
Eh, most people have enough after the 300 hours mark
sick grove
Most time I sunk into a game was Borderlands 2. 350 hours of my life... all for a co-op loot grind system.
But when you get that good loot amongst the white drops 👌
sick grove
I'd move to off topic but I'm afraid I have to call it here. Nice to now everyone seems invested in this game, though.
Going to have to avoid this channel after Wednesday, lol.
snow brook
Almost patch time 
also the problem with "not meantto be played that much" is i think an issue with this being Supergiant's first roguelike
the whole point of them IS to play them that much
spring scaffold
I have roughly 2000 hours on Dwarf Fortress. A game like Hades is nothing much on that.
bleak osprey
the whole point of them IS to play them that much yeah once they're done!
snow brook
That isnt stopping anyone :p
I mean early access be early access. Look at something like slay the spire. Granted they had a bit more of that roguelike aspect where you could change each run so much
but even since a year ago, people were dumping HOURS into that game.
amber canyon
Yeah, obviously a roguelike wont have the full capabilities of replayability early on, but it should still be very replayable
But the feedback regarding that has been given already
Its just matter of what they choose now
sinful lily
After I killed the Hydra the first few times and maxed out the most important parts of the mirror I would tell myself "I will just start a run and see what boon I get" only to find myself still playing 5 runs later. Mastering the different builds and adjusting my play-style I still get a lot of enjoyment out of repeating the same build over and over trying to perfect it. Whereas having beaten Slay the spire 20 or so times I was done. For an early access 2 level game this is about as polished as you could ever want and I am loving it
pine zealot
hey can someone help me figure something out here
neat crow
Sure, what's up
pine zealot
I'm in Charon's shop in Asphodel and
I don't know if the next room is the hydra cause I've never seen his shop in Asphodel
runic terrace
is there a skull on the door?
neat crow
You can tell quite easily, there will be Hydra skulls or something to both sides of the exit
jaunty obsidian
is there 2 pillars with skullls near a boat with a reawrd and a skull on the reward?
pine zealot
i was like "I got here three rooms ago I'm going up against the final boss?"
it's not the hydra
neat crow
Hydra reward is always Darkness (just like Meg) if that helps
pine zealot
yea i figured they both would
darkness is the reward which is why
Iiii panicked
but nyope! just some regular good ol fashioned darkness
neat crow
I'm excited to hear how you get along when you come across Murderboat™
jaunty obsidian
murder boat lol
neat crow
Be sure to report in 🙃
jaunty obsidian
never heard of that
neat crow
Never heard it called that, or you don't know the room I'm referring to?
neat crow
It's the mid-boss room in Asphodel
jaunty obsidian
i haaate that one when it has a boon i NEEEED
neat crow
So you understand the name, then, I take it 
runic terrace
GOOD LUUUUUUUCK
pine zealot
FIIIIRST TIME AT THE HYDRA
neat crow
Aw, I'm guessing no murderboat for Caitlin this run 
pine zealot
who wants to see my loadout
neat crow
Good luck!
runic terrace
🐍 💥
jaunty obsidian
umm does olympian's favour and god's pride clash?
neat crow
Nope
pine zealot
neat crow
They just reduce the overall chance of getting Common rarity
pine zealot
god if I can beat the hydra right before the next patch drops
runic terrace
omg
pine zealot
thats such a wonderful moment
runic terrace
🙏
pine zealot
oh i know!
i tested it
for too long
lmao
im at full though!
100 hp
triple shot with ares curse on it
and athena's passive protection for bullet hells
so in we go
into the belly of the beast
runic terrace
👏 😤
amber canyon
Triple shot with Ares curse isnt all that great
You only get 1 curse despite having 3 arrows
pine zealot
RIP
made it down to 50%
first run
I died trying to take down the second phase of heads
I setup hype music and everything too
neat crow
Well, at least you made it to the Hydra 
, so that's progress! You only just beat Meg 
today, too, right? 
pine zealot
oh yea i did
im just trying to see if i can beat it before next patch
so that I can like
appreciate Every difference™
left pelican
We all believe in you! ❤
ionic salmon
Ares buff is really strong. Lv6 blessing btw. I won Hydra with 2 lives left.
neat crow
A haiku to inspire our dear friend Caitlin to victory
= Ash sifts gently down =
= Upon Asphodel's flowers =
= Blooming in the bones =
@neat crow that haiku could use an extra line to make it rhyme lol
neat crow
That's... that's not... 
jaunty obsidian
okay i'll refrain
dense fox
Despite what his jerk dad says
It's snowing on Mt Fiji```oh my turn!
Constant Death, I Face
The Depths Of Hell, I Must Break
You Don't Own Me Dad
neat crow
In my mind I'm singing Caitlin's haiku like a Linkin Park song (think Crawling)
pine zealot
Zag is enough of a rebellious teen that it fits
spring scaffold
Please come back Dusa
Nyx doesn't know how I feel
Mogami River
Glad people know that reference 
neat crow
I had to look it up, to be honest. While I am familiar with Nichijou, it's been a few years since I read any of it 🙃
pine zealot
ayyyy and now I beat meg for the first time on the spear
lets see how far I can get into Asphodel with the spear instead of just the bow
lime yoke
wooo!
neat crow
I quite like spear, so hopefully it plays well for you
pine zealot
oh I like it too!
I always nab the zeus boon for it cause
it's one big flaw is
bad crowd control
neat crow
What? It has great CC
Use spin-dash 👍
That is, charge your spin at a safe distance, keep holding it while you dash and it will release at your destination
spring scaffold
Hold the attack button, then dash toward the enemies. Then dash away. Repeat.
pine zealot
I do like the chain lightning still tho
but noted
i never seem to aim those well
oh
so that's the boat fight
neat crow
Finally found Murderboat, eh?
pine zealot
yea
first few phases werent as bad as I thought theyd be tbh
after 3 voidstones tho
yeesh
neat crow
Yeah, the third (final) phase gets a bit hairy sometimes
spring scaffold
With the spear, it's cleared easily though.
pine zealot
do the shields bodyblock the spin damage?
visual laurel
I always clear the bombs out first thing because otherwise they always blow me up T^T
pine zealot
i tried the spindashing and I didn't get a lot of good damage on those voidstones
neat crow
The Voidstone shields block everything
visual laurel
on the boat battle
pine zealot
cool so no wonder i couldnt kill the voidstones
everyone was so clustered up none of my AOE could reach it
neat crow
Oh, but the AoE passes through the shield to hit things behind it, so that's not an issue really
I thought you meant for damaging the shielded enemies
pine zealot
oh no i
meant does putting a shield between you and a non-shielded target block the LOS of damage
also! neat bug i found
that goes in uhhh where again
neat crow
Walls don't even block the spear AoE (though they do block the Sword Special AoE... annoyingly)
Oooo, what's the bug?
If it's moving terrain pieces, that's a known one
pine zealot
oh the bug was in conversation
I was walking away from a chat with Dusa, and she was heading up into the rafters (like she does)
and her head suddenly jumped from where she was originally, to directly in front of me
like halfway up through the animation
probably bc the conversation wasn't done before I walked away and she course-corrected to where Dusa should be when ending a conversation (in front of Zagreus)
neat crow
Yeah, the Dusa 
animations like that are a bit buggy... I remember once she went up into the rafters then immediately reappeared in the hall with Achilles 
, but would disappear if I walked near the model. Still reappeared when I walked away, though 🙃
pine zealot
she's just shy tho
but yeah! f10d that so hopefully it helps
lil late to make the patch unfortunately
neat crow
There will be lots of small patches still after this update
Even moreso the first few days after it releases and the bug reports start flooding in 😆
visual laurel
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/532786799635070977
for anyone who wanted a list of potential changes in the upcoming update
plush glacier
wth is that link
lol
as awful as it was to visit browser discord, thanks for that regardless 😃
restive elk
o_O strange, for me it works in-client
slow star
Wondering how they'll change up the hydra.
Hydra head has many attacks that are too easy to avoid, or outright stunlock you if you don't avoid them. Whilst the phase with the many heads can feel like a bit of a clusterfudge. Basically boils down to kill the heads fast, once you got one or two down you can just range it to win it with casts.
tbh, I'd probably like it better if in the far future, they add some more bosses instead of always having to fight the same one every area.
silk fern
Probably too much scope but it could be cool if you had a choice of branches that lead to different bosses
slow star
Zeus - any orb that hits an enemy spawn 5 non homing orbs that deal 40 damage each. Poseidon - Any wave effects from poseidon knock the enemy back again after a short moment. artemis - Cast and attack spawns a homing projectile that deals 15 damage, can backstab, can't crit. Ares - Your spinning blades caste now sucks in enemies. Athena - Spawn a shield that absorbs attacks completely, protecting you from any damage, but disappears for 20 seconds when hit.
sharp prism
rain geode
Explains a lot ^^
stark tulip
wow looking at the feedback channel and this update is gonna be a doozy huh
pale nest
So much hype
spring scaffold
Choice of branch seems a bit too easy to me, as you can really plan your build ahead. Having a few different possible bosses on each "world", à la Slay the Spire would work better imo. With a way to see which boss you'll get at the start of the world. Having the same floor pattern as the Meg room in your very first room if you're gonna fight Meg, having a Hydra statue (just like the ones in the room before Hydra) in your first Asphodel room if you're gonna get Hydra, etc.
slow star
Like achilles is ordered to teach zag how to fight. But otherwise he never defies hades right?
bleak osprey
hades: achilles please teach my son how to fight and be manly
achilles: okay
achilles: [actually teaches zag to be a good person and also how to fight]
runic terrace
achilles: heres how to fight............................ INTERNALIZING RUDENESS YOUR DAD TEACHES YOU
bleak osprey
also achilles defies hades by giving zagreus all the weapons
slow star
it isn't achilles who gives him the weapons right?
bleak osprey
it is
slow star
I'm sure he said he doesn't know who put them in the courtyard
bleak osprey
they're stood like ten feet from hades he can't Actually Say
jaunty bridge
i'm pretty sure there is a line about achilles giving him the weapons
like dialogue between achilles and nyx, i think?
i'm not 100% but i feel like i've heard that conversation
molten carbon
finally finished the early! God, i sweated a lot of blood to kill hydra
bleak osprey
like the tone of voice is very definitely "hey achilles, thank you for the weapons you definitely did not make sure to leave right where i could easily get at them"
slow star
too speculative
Makes no sense he doesn't admit to it when you're on a food break with him
runic terrace
HGFHJFHJ IF I HAPPEN TO RUN INTO THEM...
slow star
if it is because hades can't have him hear
bleak osprey
what if i told you achilles' subtitle files directly state it in the vo direction then
Beyond coy, playing along, kind. Achilles delivered the weapons in question and they both know that.
slow star
neat
frozen jolt
achilles: hades can you give me weapons to train zag
hades: to train zag?
achilles: yeeeees
achilles: actually helps zagreus escape like a boss
bleak osprey
i do love that little conversation though
runic terrace
JHGVHJGFHJFVHJFJH
jaunty bridge
thank you for this meme
lunar kiln
defy your dad time
tame sierra
Ah, memes
slow star
dad of boy
bleak osprey
i can hear the :3c in achilles' line so much
tame sierra
B0i
runic terrace
i was gona say "hades time" but ppl mightve thot it was a patch drop thank u belgo
slow star
also good lord there's a lot of hades lines when you escape the house
it still hasen't looped for me yet
jaunty bridge
Achilles: 
frozen jolt
that meme format is literally so funny to me I wish I could like, make it in photoshop or something but I’m in bed
LMAO DEFY YOUR DAD TIME
tardy cedar
new mechanic: Dad Defiance
every time your dad would attempt to roast you, counter back with a whitty pun
jaunty bridge
the best darkness dump
lunar kiln
tfw your son actually manages to escape the underworld [insert sheldon big bang theory wig meme]
runic terrace
DAD DEFIANCE
slow star
when meg fails again.
tardy cedar
@ supergiant april 1st is in a few months, get on it
lunar kiln
hades characters as spongebob scenes
latent yoke
maegera at 3/4 ambrosia hearts lowkey likes you. i wanna max out her hearts so you dont even need to fight her you just pass by and she lets u off cuz yknow...
slow star
I gota talk to that hades 52 more times
tardy cedar
even when zag whoops her
molten carbon
maegera let's you pass once you got all hearts? didn't know that
slow star
Does the game not know it takes me 30 minutes per run? gosh.
frozen jolt
no she does not
latent yoke
nah jk
molten carbon
:_D
frozen jolt
she just says she wishes it didn’t have to be this way
tardy cedar
MGR flashbacks
lunar kiln
she starts off bitter and angry at zag but when you finish her route she's like "ok we're besties again. im still gonna kick your ass though"
latent yoke
yeah
slow star
I should just ruin my winrate and let the first enemy kill me time and time again so I can unlock all the entries
tardy cedar
senator armstrong as the new final boss when
molten carbon
I really like Maegera, she's a cool character
latent yoke
she says " you know we cant be senn together zag" 😏
molten carbon
lunar kiln
meggie-chan
molten carbon
Notice me Meggie-senpai
restive elk
She commends you at max hearts
slow star
I wonder
lunar kiln
zag calls her meggie-chan once, prompting her to uppercut the bastard to the surface
bleak osprey
eh, i think maybe just one? art is Hard
lunar kiln
i am fine with any amount of Art
lunar kiln
bouldy's bishie eyes
tardy cedar
actually
molten carbon
i would say Nyx or Sisyphus/Charon
tardy cedar
buy googly eyes for Bouldy as a new shop item?
bleak osprey
....achilla?
slow star
yes
molten carbon
ops
tardy cedar
that's just a zeus thing
lunar kiln
sisyphus turns out to be the most handsome 2D man ever created to quench the thirst of zag/sisyphus shippers
latent yoke
@molten carbon he is
tardy cedar
he's normally like that in most portayals
having basically infinite power does that to someone
molten carbon
yeah
making you being an arrogant
Gifting him an Ambrosia and instead of a "thanks you" a "I know i deserve" ok dud
at least Hades laughs at your face but.
tardy cedar
a male protag?
molten carbon
why?
restive elk
If Zeus likes it, he takes it.
And IT is a deliberate thing not my english being bad
slow star
zeus is also the least pleased if you defy him
Aphrodite is like : DUN GET ON MY BAD SIDE.
I expect your upmost devotion boy of dad >:C
tardy cedar
i dont think the gods are really that mad tbqh
slow star
it's a trial of the gods.
it's just a test
though, they do like seeing which god is preferred
amongst one another
lunar kiln
at one point hades himself goes ahead of zag and picks up the gods' boons to power himself up
tardy cedar
Nyx
slow star
Like... it can't be that easy to get messages in and out of the underworld
tardy cedar
it's very clearly spelled out that Nyx contacted Athena
molten carbon
Athena is bae
bleak osprey
that's why athena's the first one you see in your first run
presumably from there athena tells everyone else
slow star
considering she lied to you about her motherhood.
tardy cedar
she gave you the mirror thou
slow star
imagine beating the game your first run :^)
slow star
I'd imagine it nigh impossible without more dashes, as so many room types can seriously hamper you
like the survive challenge
tardy cedar
if you know patterns well enough it won't matter imho
slow star
sides, stygius is a good weapon
stark summit
Pretty sure with one dash, even slightly stronger enemies, like bomb-throwers will kill you pretty easily
slow star
i think the biggest threat is bloodless spam
stark summit
at least that's what happened to me on my first run :<. Granted, I was stupid and didn't quite understand what was going on because I just thought "oh god, boss, I'm low health!!!111" xD
tardy cedar
i wonder if sisy will ever be important story-wise
lunar kiln
i just made something that will absolutely earn me the hate of some people on here
(jokingly of course)
runic terrace
oh yeah?
jaunty bridge
i guess they never miss, huh?
tardy cedar
i guess they - damn
jaunty bridge
tardy cedar
i mean like
restive elk
NOON
amber canyon
How dare you insult Hypnos like that
tardy cedar
I wouldn't put it past Danganropa
runic terrace
super hades ronpa 4
lunar kiln
maybe not but he has that Energy
slow star
hypnos also likes zag, apparently
jaunty bridge
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?
dense fox
Nyx seems pretty chill. Hypnos seems one bad day from putting everyone to sleep forever
lunar kiln
just like komaeda in dr2
jaunty bridge
"controversion", ok brain, i know its 3am but cmon
bleak osprey
are you kidding me? if hypnos was any more chill he'd be an icicle
lunar kiln
just like k
tardy cedar
are we sure Hypnos isn't a cat
dense fox
It's a sort of overchill sparrow. he tries too hard at not trying if that makes sense. Nyx is legit chill
slow star
Do cats like ambrosia?
tardy cedar
@dense fox i think that's because he doesn't know how to interact with other people that well
who do you think actually talks to Hynpos?
dense fox
I can see that. Not much chance for interaction in the house of the dead
bleak osprey
i didn't like him at first but now i'm just like "that's my baby brother and if you try anything i'll Fight"
tardy cedar
i can't blame him for wanting to sleep all the time
that'd make me a hypocrite
or maybe even a Hypno-crite
ba dum tss
dense fox
Honestly i care for everyone i've seen so far except Hades. and Ares. guy likes murder too much
tardy cedar
I loooooove Ares's art
bleak osprey
idk how the ages work for nyx's kids and zagreus but hypnos just gives off the "annoying younger brother who you love anyways" vibe to me
jaunty bridge
Ares is a murderhobo
bleak osprey
i love how people's reaction to ares was mostly just anger at him being hot
amber canyon
Ares isnt the god of senseless murder
lunar kiln
why would you be angry at hot people???
tardy cedar
Ares is currently in a D&D campaign where he's the designated fighter
dense fox
and zeus is kinda a prat. possiden is too but i get the feeling possiden is more the fun sort of prat while zeus is just kinda a part
amber canyon
There was a god for that, I just dont remember his name
tardy cedar
zeus is just really aloof
amber canyon
Or her name
jaunty bridge
Ares minmaxes
amber canyon
Achlys and the Phonoi
jaunty bridge
Ares rocks up to your Pathfinder game using feats and classes you've never even heard of
dense fox
like possiden is the uncle who tries to be cool but comes off as a cool jerk and zeus is the aloof uncle who just exudes jerkinshness but propbably is not too bad
slow star
reminder that ares and aphrodite are big buds
amber canyon
You could not be more off-mark, Kyle
restive elk
Zeus Is bad tho
amber canyon
Zeus is possibly the worst of the gods
dense fox
on in myht yeah
amber canyon
Its a tossup between him and Aphro
dense fox
i mean more in this game
lunar kiln
poseidon would wear a #1 Uncle God shirt if he could
amber canyon
And the only reason he seems nice in this game is because Zag is too far away for Zeus to be Zeus
dense fox
he would too
jaunty bridge
Poseidon 100% owns a "World's Greatest Uncle" mug
lunar kiln
^
tardy cedar
also, where is Hephaestus?
pale nest
I mean zeus might also be his dad
slow star
I mean zag is powerful
amber canyon
And occasionally complaining at the noise the other Olympians are making
slow star
they probably just want his loyalty
tardy cedar
they probably just like zag
slow star
why else go out of their ways to help
amber canyon
Hephaestus is basically the bitter grandpa
tardy cedar
zag is very likeable
amber canyon
Even though hes younger
pale nest
I think they want Zag as a pawn in the war
slow star
ye
pale nest
And are trying to lure him out
slow star
Gods do like getting involved in wars, and especially... driving hero figures to help them
dense fox
i mean all the gods have that feeling of plotting to use him to them. Some just have it more then others.
tardy cedar
Personally I think they just want to one-up Hades by having someone escape the Underworld
slow star
like how achilles was strung alone
along
and regret it
sisyphus is the original underworld escapeeee
dense fox
if i had to rate the gods on zag useiness from top to bottom:
Zeus
Arees
Aphrodite
Possiden
Athena
Artemus
dense fox
zeus is at the top then it goes down
tardy cedar
ok well
dense fox
at least if i had to rate the likelihood of them using zag
tardy cedar
let's think about this from the perspective of hades
there is a very likely chance he directly knows the Gods are helping Zag out
pale nest
Poor Hades isn’t trying to use Zag at all, other than maybe having the darn kid actually clean his room for once
slow star
He is definitely aware of the weapons and the mirror
lunar kiln
minigame where zag cleans up his room
slow star
impossible that stays hidden.
tardy cedar
yeah no
nobody is pranking Hades
He's letting this happen for a reason
In fact, he's willing to basically risk certain things in the Underworld in order to help test Zag
jaunty bridge
actual april 1st patch suggestion, Zagreus Cleans His Room Simulator 2019
tardy cedar
for example, not enforcing the punishment of Sisy
pale nest
I would be so on board with room cleaning minigame
vale crypt
Viscera makes new game - Clean out the Hell
dense fox
I got to admit, the first thing i would do if my son was sneaking off to escape the underworld would be search his room for anything like magic mirrors
then yell at nyx for giving him one
spring scaffold
Hades is just... lost, I think. Tried to get Zag to work, failed, and when Zag rebelled and sided with the Olympians, he kinda gave up. He doesn't know how to dad.
pale nest
Also a minigame of pushing Bouldy
tardy cedar
well
pale nest
And a minigame of walking Cerberus
slow star
PAT THE DOG next update
tardy cedar
Chouette, there is one conversation where Hades does actually say something along the lines of "I think you could make it out"
spring scaffold
I've had Hades say "congratulations" to me on one of my Hydra kills. Didn't sound sarcastic.
dense fox
I think it's implied the underworld is not as secure as it once was. Cerb is getting old, two of the 3 furies so far are busy ETC
slow star
because he knows there's darkness out there
tardy cedar
maybe uh
tardy cedar
maybe this is all just an extremely elaborate setup to test the security of the Underworld
slow star
NANI
tardy cedar
have zag get to the surface, and then make sure nobody else can
pale nest
Would explain why Skelly isn’t saying who hired him
tardy cedar
I think the weapons were always there
dense fox
Skelly was hired by... DIO OSIRIS!
slow star
no, achilles confirms he put em there
bleak osprey
it was achilles who put them there
tardy cedar
ah
bleak osprey
glad i convinced you ketrai! ;P
slow star
i mean, it's in the subtitles
tardy cedar
hm
bleak osprey
i. yeah. i told you that.
dense fox
what i want to know is... who is the narrator?
tardy cedar
do you think Achilles hired Skelly, then?
dense fox
The codex is achilies, but the narrator? who dat
pale nest
If Achilles hired Skelly it wouldn’t be a secret
Like, we’re straight up told Achilles handled the weapons
tardy cedar
I wouldn't be surprised if Hades hired Skelly
pale nest
If he also hired Skelly there would be no reason to keep it quiet
I’m thinking Hades hired him, yeah
tardy cedar
but i think he was clever about it
I could see Skelly being dormant until Zag picked up a new weapon
and then activated automatically
slow star
Even if somewhat jokingly, he does congratulate you at times.
either like, "congratulations you died agian, fool."
or " Congratulations, you killed the hydra, I'm proud."
slow star
i'm more inclined about "congratulations you died again"
because he says it super sarcastic-like
as well as . "Welcome home boy!"
tardy cedar
He's gotta keep Zag mad
or else Zag won't have the drive needed to reach the surface
slow star
he needs a reason to fight to get stronger
dense fox
the final boss is skelly.
"Hey you did your dad proud kid. Tested the underworld good. Now i got to kill ya."
"You are just a bloodliess what are you going to do?"
"Ah well ya see kid...I AIN'T YOUR ORDINARLY BLOODLESS...
Health bar reads "Thanatos, God Of Death"
tardy cedar
Are we going to have a bad time?
slow star
ohno
frozen jolt
that’s literally just undertale
slow star
sans = skelly
tardy cedar
inb4 toby fox appears in the credits after this update
pale nest
Yeah I don’t see undertale ending happening
slow star
elysium isn't next update
pale nest
Final boss is likely Hades himself
slow star
apparently
median badger
either hades or some of the other gods
slow star
I was thinking
real pagoda
any new info on when?
slow star
hades, cerberus, or achilles.
tardy cedar
sometime before the end of time itself
spring scaffold
Skelly was hired by Charon.
tardy cedar
likely sometime today
slow star
Or the kraken
spring scaffold
It's an investment: Skelly helps you learn so you can get lots of money and spend it in the shop.
median badger
we won´t fight achilles he helps us too much
dense fox
I would not be surprised if the god of death/underworld thing was a plot point. Like hades only rules the underworld, but is as trapped as we are. The guy guarding the gate is the real god of death, Thanatos, but Hades borrows the tirle to keep apperences
slow star
Hades isn't trapped
spring scaffold
He is.
slow star
He just has a duty.
spring scaffold
Trapped in paperwork.
slow star
he can't get out without a VERY good reason
because it's leaving the souls unattended
which is a big sin
jaunty bridge
Hades in game says "You think I haven't tried?" when talking about your escape attempts and how its futile
pale nest
Hades is trapped
spring scaffold
Bureaucracy, the truest form of torture.
pale nest
Confirmed in game
slow star
I imagine souls are quite powerful too, so maybe that's why they have to be guarded? dunno
median badger
so he is trapped because of a big fat baddy at the end
spring scaffold
When Hades tries to escape, he wrecks all the monsters, but gets blown back by a paperwork tsunami.
dense fox
Nah, Thanatos is also just doing his job, it's just part of his job is keeping Hades at his
jaunty bridge
Thanatos being the final boss, and the reason why Hades is stuck there, is probable
Its a very logical end boss, although not exactly surprising or plot twist-y
pale nest
What if Hades is trying to spare us with Meg from having to fight something much worse
median badger
but isn´t it possible that the game doesn´t end with the escape but instead we go to the surface and search for our mother because there is a big war or something on earth?
slow star
we've yet to see Erebus or Thanatos sooooo
I imagine Erebus might end up in chaos
if they work chaos out more
plot twist, DUSA is the final boss.
of course, it all makes sense.
stark tulip
the final boss is fortnite default skin
slow star
Dusa plats hard to get on purpose because she doesn't want to feel bad about beating him later, of course.
amber canyon
I doubt that Thanatos is why Hades is stuck in the underworld
Hades spoke of him too favourably for that
lunar kiln
one of the floors in the underworld is an unfathomably precious vase sitting on a table at the center of the room, zag can't proceed without breaking the vase
whe he tries to progress he inevitably breaks the vase
and berserk dusa appears
dense fox
WAit i did not know hades spoke of Thanatos
restive elk
THERE IS NO ESCAPE
jaunty bridge
i'm gonna step away and watch some youtube while waiting for a possible patch release while i'm still awake (its 3am here so its unlikely but who knows?)
see y'all when patch drops
shy socket
Dude sleep
slow star
The patch won't run away
shy socket
You wont enjoy it even if it drops if you havent slept
jaunty bridge
that's what you think
slow star
And it'll make it drop sooner
dense fox
" I worked on keeping that vase safe for TEN THOUSAND YEARS AND YOU BROKE IT! AHHHHHHHHHHH"
Grows legs and a body and gets a ohk
"Medusa, Angry Maid"
bonus boss if you break the pot, can be avoided
pale nest
Bedtime is important
shy socket
That's what your internal clock thinks too!
jaunty bridge
my internal clock stopped functioning properly when i was a kid 😛
shy socket
Ait, its your call anyway xD
dense fox
dusa is like the bonus boss that can be avoided if you don't want pain but you want all the gold in that giant pot and it might just be worth it but it really is not
jaunty bridge
im honestly likely to crash in the next hour or so, but hey, if it by chance drops while i'm awake i may as well take a look at it
anyway, byyyeeee
slow star
I find it suspicious how nyx says "Go, fulfill your purpose."
spring scaffold
I dislike Nyx. How dare she tell Dusa not to speak to me unless spoken to first... now she's all shy again, even though we had made so much progress 
dense fox
You got to put the hired help in their place
that's like the job of the mom
Otherwise dusa might get ideas above her station
dense holly
dusa+hades best ship 2019 dont @ me
median badger
i read on wikipedia that nyx the night is actually pretty powerful so powerful that even zeus was afraid of her
plot twist anyone?
maybe she wants to break free
runic terrace
@dense holly i do @ you
uncut wave
I really like Dan Simmons Ilium & Olympos books
the scifi greek mythology put in there.
damn good.
Nyx being absolutely baller in there.
tardy cedar
When is Nyx not baller
lunar kiln
beat the hydra to flex on my dad one last time before the update
dreamy haven
hello
primal flame
"Showed that Hydra!"
tardy cedar
it just wanted a hug
tardy cedar
new canon: zag does not like hugs
lunar kiln
*not from anyone
lunar kiln
like he'd be comfortable hugging someone he really admires/feels at peace with but other than that it's complicated
shy socket
Why wouldn't he
lunar kiln
i mean you won't see him in a cerberus fursuit in the house of hades holding a sign that says free hugs
amber canyon
So, I guess it is chaos after all
lunar kiln
...actually it might as well just happen with a little more character growth
dreamy haven
what does it mean by major update SOON
lunar kiln
it's today
shy socket
Zagreus is excellently written, to be honest - he has all the 'witty' and edgy quiping you get from the typical dark hero like constantine or moon knight or shadow the hedgehog... but none of it feels truly genuine
It feels as if it's a routine he fell into living in a love-starved household and that his true voice comes out only when gifting or talking to characters like achilles
bleak osprey
zagreus is a good boy!
tardy cedar
his quips feel genuine
bleak osprey
he's a snarky boy but he's good.
dreamy haven
on the epics store when you launch does it say Chaos update
bleak osprey
yes
dreamy haven
ok
bleak osprey
well, the art has changed, the game itself is not updated yet
tardy cedar
maybe it's bouldy
primal flame
pretty sure it's Bouldy in their God Form
lunar kiln
me as a baby when my mom goes "here comes the plane" with the spoon https://i.imgur.com/rXYo2Y2.png
runic terrace
HDJGKFLFKDKCMVKGL
slow star
HUH
one of the hades phrases notes how he tried to escape the underworld himself
but failed
but he has definitely tried
slow star
naw, he has to fight like us, i'm sure
late nacelle
Young hades cosmetic dlc confirmed
pale nest
Now that would be a fun flashback
vale crypt
Episode Hades
late nacelle
Hades makes his own boons 👏 😤
nimble stone
Wait when did they picture they posted get filled in?
bleak osprey
the store art accidentally updated a little ways ahead of schedule and it's since been reverted
bleak osprey
nope!
vale crypt
i'd bet on either Nyx or Chaos
nimble stone
I thought it was nyx but now that I see it I’m not so sure
vale crypt
yeh, pic can work for both Night and Void
hm... dont know if anyone said it before, but what if this game follows darksiders "trend"?
first game Zagreus gets out of Tartarus, second some norse godling out of Hel, third egyptian out of Duat and finally japanese out of Yomi? and then they all unite to fight some primordial deity that gave birth to all gods and now wants to destroy world
tardy cedar
k patch notes
atomic forge
Someone got a screenshot right?
ashen oyster
xD
latent yoke
IN THE CHAOS POOL
odd grove
i was in the middle of reading it :<
glossy mist
S O O N
tardy cedar
k so
paper stream
I saw them vanish before I got a chance to read them 😦
languid cairn
noooo
tame mortar
All I saw was the first part
languid cairn
i missed it
grim oracle
screams in ancient greek
late nacelle
muted viper
they just gave us a lil sneak peek 
tardy cedar
auto aim on invicible enemies now reduced
tardy cedar
you can no longer cheese hide breaker
as when you break armor, it absorbs all damage
they said they reduced armor values as a result
late nacelle
Wait there were leaked patch notes, heckkk
wary bison
yeah for like, a minute
timid mirage
gorgon enemy yus
wary bison
SKULLCRUSHER
weak adder
i think it said that artemis also got her own art
frozen jolt
is "leaked" the right word 🤔
latent yoke
@wary bison more like 20 secs
late nacelle
Yess I can't wait for artemis art
wary bison
yeah fair
languid cairn
i dont know what that meansj ust like. looking at it it max
bleak osprey
i like how this seems to have re-hyped everyone
late nacelle
Gorgon enemy, does that mean new floor or it's added to a current floor
timid mirage
I like it that the 'chaos world' is something worthwhile now huehuehue
languid cairn
like those words just dont make sense to me and thats not ur fault
paper stream
patch must be soon if the patch notes were almost posted
tardy cedar
@languid cairn it means you can't one-shot people because they have armor anymore
because there were buffs that increased damage to armored enemies
timid mirage
there were 3 new enemies ......, gorgon, and mega gorgon
late nacelle
With armour damage bonuses it was quite easy to 1 shot armour enemies entirely
tardy cedar
now that's no longer possible
languid cairn
interesting
tardy cedar
however for builds that didn't focus on that its great bc armor values overall are lower
timid mirage
Hades can give you 'do not get hit challenges aswell
atomic forge
REALLY happy by the sounds of armor changes
languid cairn
im very glad for that max bc i never did
atomic forge
It felt awful if you didn't get one of the armor breaker upgrades
languid cairn
we arrow dash 
tardy cedar
charon no longer sells ambrosia
timid mirage
only started 2 days ago I have nothing stuocked!
Don't even have all the darkshards yet. Woe is me
peak bramble
wary bison
i want hades to love me again 
tardy cedar
infernal troves now sometimes require skeleton keys, so keys aren't worthless anymore
grim oracle
tfw no fatherly love 
languid cairn
i dont have like anything stocked up afaik
late nacelle
@tardy cedar do you have a ss or are you typing off memory
languid cairn
nice
tardy cedar
and recall
wary bison
tfw dad hates you 
pale nest
tardy cedar
used to power up something called the Pact
languid cairn
d e v i l d e a l s 
trail zephyr
latent yoke
@tardy cedar goddamn man stop leaking all the patches before they send a hitman to your location xd
paper stream
could also be typing out of your ass, and that's where all the heat is coming from, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt 😉
muted viper
I have horrible memory //and comprehension so I am jealous
wary bison
@tardy cedar haha nerd