A couple yeah
#h1-story-discussion
tawdry island
But there was a time where Zag thought Nyx was his mother, meaning all this time Zag thought Meg was his sister... And they seem to be ex-girlfriend/boyfriend
honest coral
mythology is all sorts of messed up
honest coral
More like step siblings anyway since different parents I think
tawdry island
Zag also seems to be attracted to Aphrodite, who is his cousin.
willow ivy
Can you blame him though
tawdry island
So Zag was ex-lovers with a woman he thought was his half-sister?
willow ivy
Greek myths just be like that
tawdry island
Can a Fury and Zag mate and have children?
willow ivy
Most likely
tawdry island
Is Zag a god because he’s a child of a god or is he a half-god? What is Persephone now?
willow ivy
Persephone was a full goddess iirc
tawdry island
So how come Zag doesn’t have a job like the other gods?
tawdry island
lol
bleak osprey
hades: there is no god of talking back to me.
zag: yeah well there is now
tawdry island
No wonder Meg despises him
visual laurel
We don't know what Zag does and neither does he really but for now I'm more than happy to accept Zagreus as the patron deity of talking back to trashbag dads
scenic comet
rises up. Okay, so
In Greek mythology canon, Zagreus is the son of Zeus and Persephone. Probably not canon here.
However, there's another thing I've noticed. Artemis calls Zagreus a half-god if you chose someone over her in the trial of the gods.
And yeah, Greek mythology is very... incesty. Much like most mythologies.
Also in original canon, Zagreus uh, well, died.
visual laurel
Yeah, I feel like there isn't a whole lot of point in referencing the mythology to try to figure out zag's deal
If it was that easy, SGG would hardly have a story
I feel like we can only wait to see what they do with it...choosing a deity with an odd background was clearly intentional, makes it tougher to say for 100% sure where it's going, and following a less popular deity means nobody gets too upset about deviations from "canon", whatever that means in a wildly polytheistic tradition
pale nest
And I mean, in mythology Zag’s parents are already kind of complicated
Rebirth is weird that way
tawdry island
I remember Meg taunting Zag, saying: ~”Do they know the real reason you’re trying to find Persephone?” Does Zag have the hots for her too?
Meg should go out with Achilles
visual laurel
I uhhhhhh don't think so????
Hahaha Achilles is pretty definitively taken, at least in this iteration
tawdry island
How so? I missed it about Achilles
visual laurel
He had a lifelong partner in Patroclus when they were alive, and in a later conversation he tells you that he's still devoted to him, even though they're currently separated
tawdry island
So Zag’s the only eligible bachelor in Hades for Meg lol
visual laurel
I get the feeling Meg's not in the mood to get back with Zag, since his escapes are making her life more of a hell than it already is
tawdry island
Why though? Gives her something to do and she likes whipping him with her whip? What was her punishment for letting him escape to Asphodel?
tawdry island
Brother and ex lover
visual laurel
We don't know what her punishment is but Hades chews her out every time, it's implied she's physically punished in some way, and also dying isn't fun
She expresses deep resentment and frustration with Zag every time he talks to her, and confides in Nyx that the stress of dealing with Zag and walking on eggshells within a household that's tearing itself apart is wearing on her
She's having a Bad Time™ and she absolutely 100% blames Zag for it
tawdry island
Meg and Zag need couples therapy
visual laurel
I mean the whole house needs counseling imo, but
It's a difficult situation. That's not Zag's fault, it's Hades'.
Entirely Hades'.
runic terrace
this hooouuuse is a ***ing NIIGHTMARE vine
visual laurel
But like, Meg can't depose Hades or anything, she has to live with his rules
visual laurel
Bruh
Hades lashes out at everyone in the house every time Zag runs
They all get punished because Zag wants to get away
atomic forge
the "this is why mom doesnt ***ing love you!" vine but with hades and zagreus
scenic comet
Hades also uh. Hooked up Zagreus and Meg, saying something about at least mortals become men quickly, and that Meg would help him with that.
visual laurel
yeah, it felt like an arranged marriage type deal
Tho at least neither of them seems, based on the evidence we currently have anyways, to have deeply resented that or anything
bleak osprey
hades you can't just keep employing people to beat up your son and hope something good happens
scenic comet
It didn't feel like an arranged marriage to me, more like NSFW stuff.
visual laurel
I mean. yeah that was the implication but it sounds like they were together for longer than just a fling
and at least Zag wants to still have a positive relationship with Meg based on the dialogues
green nova
Well, I got to the Hydra for the first time
I'm assuming that it's the final boss, for now
distant current
@visual laurel but doesn't want zag a positive relationship with anyone that he gifts an ambrosia bottle? even when he gave his father a bottle the dialogue was 'positive'
visual laurel
i mean...sure...but I feel like the point is that nothing zag is capable of doing in the game is out of character for him
you can choose who you want him to be closer with but generally speaking the impulse must be there
wouldn't be very fair to him as a character otherwise
pale nest
Wait, does that mean giving gifts to Bouldy is just not something he wants to be doing? D:
sour otter
Sisyphus is my favorite for sure, he seems to be the most grateful for Zag for sure, which makes sense given the whole “I only have a boulder for company” situation
cold canopy
i wish i had a bouldy
sour otter
Bouldy is a pet rock to the next level
willow ivy
over in #h1-builds-and-combat
tawdry island
Shield
gray ruin
got it
tawdry island
Why does Sisyphus never roll his ball? Isn’t he supposed to perpetually push it?
pale nest
The furies are too busy to force him
visual laurel
Meg's distracted with preventing Zag's escape attempts and the other 2 furies are away
tawdry island
You mean her kid brother/ex-lover?
runic terrace
Why does Sisyphus never roll his ball? Isn’t he supposed to perpetually push it? - meg
tawdry island
lol
pale nest
Oh Greek mythology
gray ruin
Hahahaha
neat crow
I appreciate you UNOvven
amber canyon
Ayy, thanks
dense fox
Was watching a video where the protagonist gives Hades a ambrosia and he was all "stop trying to butter me up so you can escape easier" and I was like oof, since it was clearly meant to be a peace offering of some sort. Anyone else kinda hoping that another one or something else unlocks a "it were'nt a bribe or something jerk dad i was trying to be nice because even if we disagree on what is best for me i still care about you" bonding moment of some sort?
runic terrace
oh for sure for sure i wanna see zag realize he cares very much about hades when it comes down to it but i dont think thatd be a particularly healthy bonding moment
give him an ambrosia and be struck be really complicated feelings, zag
amber canyon
Id rather that Zag shows he cares about Hades by dropkicking him
runic terrace
HFJFHJFHJ THE VERY LAST HEART FILL ON THE AMBROSIA METER
dense fox
I mean, it won't affect gameplay or anything, it just a second one be like "Look i meant it more as a peace offering since while i want out this hell and get anoyed by you are still my dad" And he does something like "If you cared you'd stop trying to escape, still the thought is appreciated" in his own sort of dad jerky way
runic terrace
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh "if you cared youd stop trying to escape" would be SO ROUGH id love to see it. like. were gonna need a whole entire achilles convo for zag to unpack that one afterwards tbh
dense fox
well i was thinking hades would say that but would add something like "thanks anyway for the attempt" just to show it meant SOMETHING to him while still being a snarky jerk
runic terrace
😬 but did it tho................. lol
crude patrol
I dont think so
dense fox
i dunno, maybe it did, maybe not. hades is kinda hard to read beyond "snarky jerk"
crude patrol
He propably not even drunk the ambrosia, but tossed it away. Or re-gifted it to someone else.
"Oh? You are still mad about that gift you made me? Atleast the dog had his enjoyment on it."
runic terrace
he drinks it and kinda nods to zag as he does and thats all the validation zags gonna get but he'll treasure it
dense fox
I think he'd drink it. In his celler. When noone is about and he can afford to let his guard down for a second
amber canyon
I mean, noone with a mustache as good as his can be a bad guy, yknow
crude patrol
I think he'd unscrew it, turn the bottle upside down and give Zag the coldest stare, while the bottle empties itself on the floor.
drops mic
runic terrace
NOOOOOO HGJFJFJ
crude patrol
"SUCH INSOLENCE"
runic terrace
tbh tbh i do think he'd drink it bc. hades plays a verrrrry careful game where he doesnt want to fully alienate zag to keep him from leaving but he does want things to be. unpleasent.
amber canyon
I mean if he wanted things to be unpleasant, hed do more than show indifference
Id say its more him putting on a cold face just to try and keep the house together
runic terrace
hades really walks that tightrope to keep zag around without actually working on Not Being A Jerk and its a gamble he ultimately may lose
dense fox
I think Hades is like the father who thinks he knows best: he cares but seeing his son slam his head against the wall over and over makes him want to slap him for being stubborn
amber canyon
That is a good way of putting it
Plus, he is bitter given that he got majorly screwed over
runic terrace
hades definitely cares about zag but the question is. is that enough?
dense fox
i don't know. I was just hoping for a second ambrosia give to be a bit of a reconcilation even if only slightly
amber canyon
I think its too early for that
dense fox
but you can't really put that in feedback because spoilers
amber canyon
We should only be able to do that after we die to Thanatos
dense fox
I was thinking less a full on reconciliation and more of a peace offering type deal where they maybe hate each other a bit less
for ambrosia
amber canyon
Yknow what bothers me
Why is Stygius described as Poseidons sword and not Thanatos' sword?
dense fox
like "
I'm still escaping here dad but take this because i still care for you"
"If you cared you'd stop banging your head against the wall like this, but thanks anyway"
amber canyon
Because I dont think Poseidon would use a sword
Its entirely too unradical
Oh, apparently its definitely only going to be 6 weapons
And we can even do some guess work based on the 2 remaining gods
crude patrol
What gods are we talking about?
amber canyon
The six Elder Gods
Every weapon so far was wielded by one of them
And they were explicitely mentioned in Coronacht as the six Elder Gods
And there happen to be 6 slots
Its gonna be Scythe and Greek Fire
Since the remaining 2 are Demeter and Hestia
crude patrol
Sure. But who are the remaining gods, that you wanna guess the weapons on?
amber canyon
Demeter and Hestia, as I just said
dense fox
If greek fire is a flamethrower i will go out and buy this game right away
amber canyon
Demeter was never depicted as using weapons, but she is the goddess of harvest
So a scythe is quite the safe pick
And Hestia, likewise, was never depicted with weapons, but she always carried around a bowl of fire
dense fox
you can't really make a bowl a weapon. Unless that bowl is feeding fire to a gas expulsion system
amber canyon
DMC made a weapon out of a hat and a motorcycle
A bowl is much easier
Well, bowl of fire, pot of fire, same thing
crude patrol
throwing pots of fires, as if they were bombs though
amber canyon
I mean theyll probably change it from a bowl or pot
crude patrol
different boons grant different explosives
amber canyon
But I definitely think it will be greek fire
So yeah, there we go, remaining 2 weapons solved
dense fox
i reckon it will be a flamethrower of sorts. good for crowd control
crude patrol
The fire could be an AoE you kite enemies through
Poseidon would knock them back a bit
amber canyon
Im a genius
dense fox
You know what could make a interesting father son bonding moment for ambrosia while playing into Hades indifferent attitude about everyone and maybe painting some other chars in a different light? If when you give him enough he has hypnos put people to sleep for a second so noone else hears, and he says something like "I wholeheartedly believe your quest to try and escape is a fools errand... but the gods are not infallible, so here's some little advice of the offchance you succeed: be wary of how much you trust my brethren, lest they make you a pawn in their games."
he gives a bit of advice while still showing hes a jerk and distrustful of his family
and adds a implication that maybe some of the other god's intentions with their aid are not as pure as they seem. (weather or not they are is a matter for debate)
plucky crown
wow i just made orpheus sing again and its amazing
lime yoke
a scythe
amber canyon
Yes, I have determined using infallible logic that he will get a scythe
charred tartan
There's a cutscene where Hades mentions that even he couldn't get out. Perhaps a maxed relationship could result in Hades seeing value in escaping, and providing Zag with a boon, weapon, and/or keepsake to help.
charred tartan
I believe Hades mentions this in one of those scenes that happen before the start of a run. I think the title was "No Escape", but am not entirely sure.
dense fox
do you have a pic or a vid? Because that would be a legit twist tbh for several reasons
Not least of which is why ain't Hades allowed out?
And, possibly, who is stopping him?
bleak osprey
i don't have a screenshot, but the text is:
Nobody gets out of here, boy, whether alive or dead. You think I jest? You think I haven't tried?!
(the header that shows up is "nobody")
dense fox
Well, won't lie, that changes a lot if true
That one line kinda puts everything on it's head. Hades tried before and believes it can't be done which explains his anger at zag. More importantly, it implies that Hades is as much a prisoner as everyone else is
in which case, who's keeping him that way and why?
mind, it could just be Hades messing with Zag some more, but if it's true it's a major bombshell
earnest mesa
I assume it might be the Olympians fault since hades dislikes them a lot
or at least they're somehow related
earnest mesa
yeah
dense fox
That's one of those lines you see that appears on the wham page of tv tropes with the last bit as a spoiler tag because it changes the whole nature of the game tbh
...again, if true
charred tartan
Ah, thanks sparrow!
tawdry island
Shouldn’t Poseidon have a trident?
tawdry island
He’s no Aquaman...
ripe bloom
He is Murloc
ashen crown
his hair is fabulous
neat crow
More like Pose-idon, amirite?
tawdry island
More like Wimbli’s Trident
ripe bloom
What is he gonna do with it? Set the floor on fire with crazy lyre riffs?
tawdry island
U Lyre
fierce drift
Zeus mentions his brother's position in a bit of dialogue, and blames the fates for it
Who knows how true that is
But he just described it as Hades "getting the short stick"
willow ivy
Hades, Poseidon, and Zeus all drew lots after the Titanomachy to decide how they would divide up their domains
effectively it was left up to luck but in some accounts Hades believes he was cheated by the other two
tawdry island
What sort of ‘work’ does Hades do that the others don’t have to? Can’t he just hire an assistant for all the paperwork?
sick grove
Have you ever met someone who has a lot of responsibility and complains about it? And then when someone else tries to help out, they lash out with a 'you can't handle my responsibilities'! That's how I see Hades.
The responsibilities Hades has play a much larger role than 'thrust upon him'. On some level, I think this fate is his decision. It's just that his personality makes for a rather jarring individual, as many of the god's seem to agree. I see a lot of anger in the God over seeing Zag try and 'escape' the system he not only runs, but is now a part of.
That's why I love the line about Hades 'having tried' to give all this up. There's a bitterness there, that goes beyond just 'physical' boundaries. Wether he's chained to this land or not, there's a duty he must uphold. In that sense, he drew the shortest stick.
tawdry island
Elon Musk is in Hades?
sick grove
I just really love the execution on these conflicting natures (Hades and Prince Z). It's some crazy, centerstage, 'duality' and clashing personalities at work, and it just makes me like Greg's work more.
fierce drift
god i love Meg and Zag's relationship
neat crow
Probably more appropriate for #fan-works , but it was quite entertaining!
ionic hinge
Being the eldest of his siblings and having the most unflattering of jobs will take a toll
dense fox
Just curious since I saw someone go over to the bar... is it possible to break into Hades wine celler and distribute some wine? If not, it should be.
ionic hinge
Ambrosia for Sale?
runic terrace
theres some wine that hades keeps in the cellar in the basememt.....if youd like to follow me down and check.................... (jk jk this is a cask of amontillado joke)
pale nest
Boy would I!
tawdry island
What is Nyx’ relation to Hades?
bleak osprey
¯_(ツ)_/¯
atomic forge
Everyone believed that Zagreus was Hades and Nyx child
Thats their only known relation right now
amber canyon
Well Nyx still appears to have acted as a mother figure to Zag
visual laurel
yeah, she certainly appears to have been one of his main caretakers, alongside achilles
hardy nymph
Now I have team 4 star stuck in my head
YOU DIDN'T DOOOOODGE!!!!
amber canyon
Only problem is that Hades is more Vegeta than Goku
Also I love how they lampshaded their own running gag when Android 17 said "yknow, saying "dodge!" is more distracting than helpful"
polar root
I think it's funny that if you give Achilles like three ambrosia, he tries to let you down easy and tells you he already had a lover when he was alive and it wouldn't work out.
runic terrace
and ooooooooyes i cannot WAIT for said lover to show up as a shade
the reunion gonna be beautyful
stark tulip
Waiting for that Patroclus is skelly reveal
atomic forge
oh my
charred tartan
That would be weird. I'd expect Achillies would know who he was if that were the case.
digital trellis
I FINALLY BEAT MEG and then immediately died in asphodel. It’s aight though
crisp basin
getting the first time into asphodel is rough 
even after 223 hydra kills I dash every run into the lava
pale nest
Asphodel is def when things start to get real 😛
crisp basin
a few times owls
pale nest
Grats on beating Meg!
crisp basin
just love to play the game on stream and talk with people about balance stuff or help new players out and show them some tips / builds
crisp basin
i think i did 60% of my kills with the bow
it is the easiest weapon to dont concentrate on the game and rather on chat/talking 
pale nest
I just love sword so much ;_; And bow is like the opposite
round canyon
223 does seem a bit much 😄
distant current
i have 14 hydra kills with the spear, 2 with sword and 1 with bow ._.
round canyon
1 bow, 1 sword 😄
bleak osprey
2 kills, both with bow, possibly three kills depending on how this one goes
fast turret
I've killed Hydra over -1 times
ashen crown
Huge if true
digital trellis
I’ve killed hydra -0 times. I fail so badly that I created a paradox
bleak osprey
i can't believe i beat hydra twice today :'D
pale nest
I believe in you!
unkempt locust
@bleak osprey wow! So did I
Found a slow strange trick for Hydra with deflect boon on shield + deflect boon on cast + Artemis crit after dash.
By hiding behind right wall, I took it down. I'll stay a bit far from the wall in the beginning to avoid the pound attack. Once projectile attack started, I'll stick to wall safely. For the Additional Hydra heads, spammed dash, cast and shield to clear out at least one head ASAP. Once I had some standing space away from main Hydra head (even if exposed), I could clear out the other heads. If exposed, I needed to prioritize dodging the projectiles over attacking secondary heads. It took me 10-12 minutes but I beat it quite easily
Just have to figure out how to beat Hydra with the sword
bleak osprey
i feel like that's a fairly standard hydra strat - pick a side, clear out the heads so you have a safe place to stand
the real killer, so far as that fight goes, is when you're pinned out in the open and the hydra's throwing projectiles
echo comet
I've just realized how much easier it is to kill hydra if you don't hide behind the walls during the projectile attack but just stand next to the main head and attack.
languid cradle
Oh, can you get inside their arc? I also didn't know that.
bleak osprey
you absolute madman
worn cipher
Yes, you can get inside the arc and they'll all miss you iirc
languid cradle
I'll have to pay more attention to the patterns and try that out. Will make melee much less of a PITA.
worn cipher
If you have ares's dash it makes the fight almost trivial imo
languid cradle
Hmm. Ares dash and I do not get along.
worn cipher
How come?
languid cradle
I haven't gotten bladestorms to do much of anything without the vacuum / homing boons. The cast moves real slow and the enemies are very mobile; the stationary dash storms never seem to hit any mobs. I don't have much experience with using it on bosses, but I could see it being good on Hydra with proper positioning. Still trickier than most other ways to deal damage.
worn cipher
I think I might have gotten the 33% size upgrade with it every time to be fair
That's just what's worked for me though
bleak osprey
i tried ares dash once and just couldn't get it to hit much
it felt more like a neat bonus when i actually got it to hit
languid cradle
Ah, yeah size would help. I don't think that's come up actually.
worn cipher
I get it way too often. Every time I go for another god's legendary I always end up with Ares's somehow lol
radiant folio
This has probably been answered before, but will Supergiant be taking away our progress between now and any future updates?
bleak osprey
it's answered in the faq, actually
Will I run into horrible bugs or lose progress during Early Access? We’ll do our best to prevent this. However, there may be times when we make large changes causing aspects of your progress to reset. We’ll try to limit these cases and warn you in advance if we can.
tawdry island
lol
strange cipher
Is there a way to hear Lament of Orpheus in the game?
Because I literally didn't know the song existed until just now, clicking through the soundtrack.
neat crow
Yes, there is. Since this is spoilers channel, I'm assuming you want to know how?
strange cipher
I've done everything else in the current game to my knowledge.
frozen jolt
once you max out orpheus' hearts he will sometimes sing when you come back home
strange cipher
You actually get something for giving people ambrosia more than once?
I don't believe you.
tawdry island
How do you max out the hearts?
neat crow
Yeah, I can't tell either... But if you haven't given everyone max hearts, then you haven't really done everything, have you? 
tawdry island
If Achilles drinks ambrosia, shouldn’t he become a god?
runic terrace
no
frozen jolt
@lucid matrix there's tartarus and asphodel right now
if you mean something else, then i dont know
worn cipher
Don't people who drink Ambrosia become immortal, not gods? He's dead already
frozen jolt
27
lucid matrix
oh alrighty
frozen jolt
rooms
frozen jolt
gl!
lucid matrix
thank you vm
tawdry island
So can someone be simultaneously dead and immortal?
pale nest
Vampires
willow ivy
the ambrosia is also supposed to taste so good it's incredibly addictive too
worn cipher
I think it's more like it just doesn't have the immortal effect on him, it just tastes really good
willow ivy
depends on the source too
tawdry island
Meg is a vampire?
neat crow
Meg is a Fury
willow ivy
some say it grants immortality, others say it's just extended life
pale nest
Please at least give the pupper more treats
All my first ambrosias went to puppy
Maxxed him out before I even started anyone else
neat crow
I definitely went the one-to-everybody route
tawdry island
So the dead get extended life?
willow ivy
gave all mine to Dusa right off the bat
pale nest
But he was such a good boy ;_; He deserves all the treats
neat crow
I think my first maxed out character was though... Or maybe 
... Those were the first two, anyway, that I maxed
frozen jolt
the dead get Death
pale nest
Hmm >.>
tawdry island
Is Charon dead or a god?
neat crow
Charon is a god
pale nest
When we’re able to actually get the full amount of hearts
tawdry island
Nyx is a god?
visual laurel
Nyx is a primordial deity yes
pale nest
I want to be able to ride Cerby
willow ivy
Nyx is the goddess of night, yes
neat crow
Completely unrelated to Hades (and before it existed, even) I named my new (at the time) computer Erebus 😆
willow ivy
her children are Hypnos, Death, and Charon
tawdry island
If Meg is Nyx’ daughter, how come Meg and Nyx look so different?
visual laurel
Why not
willow ivy
Meg is adopted, like Zag
pale nest
Everyone looks different
visual laurel
Also we don't know what nyx looks like anyways
frozen jolt
we literally dont know what nyx looks like
neat crow
Nyx art isn't final, so... ¯_(ツ)_/¯
tawdry island
So Zag is ex-lovers with his step-sister
willow ivy
Zeus seriously needs to chill
neat crow
Implied, anyway (re: 
x )
willow ivy
like half of Greece is related to that old goat
pale nest
In Zag’s defence, he’s got a lot more step-sisters than usual given his number of parents
visual laurel
Everyone's related, it's not that big a deal
like if you really want to get hung up on that, a game about greek myth ain't for you
tawdry island
So if Zag and Meg have children, would they look like furies or humans? Or half and half?
pale nest
Could be anything
visual laurel
Woohoo let's not make incest jokes about people's actual homes please
willow ivy
Oof sorry mate
pale nest
Like, gods give birth to all sorts of monsters
neat crow
I really don't think genetics factor into the properties and appearance of mythological deities
tawdry island
So Zag and Dusa could bear children?
pale nest
Yup
willow ivy
two relatively humanoid deities get married, their offspring are one humanoid, a bear, and some kind of cycloptic duck
tawdry island
Was Cyclops a god?
pale nest
And remember Zag could also be the one having the baby
visual laurel
Nope
neat crow
No
visual laurel
Offspring of a god though
pale nest
Athena was a thing
tawdry island
Centaur a god?
willow ivy
there's like a 70% chance of Zag having the baby
neat crow
The Cyclops were related to the giants/Titans, weren't they?
visual laurel
Dude wikipedia exists lol
pale nest
Cyclopses were the siblings of the gods
visual laurel
I feel like it's a better source than us
willow ivy
and it'll come out of his back or something like a xenomorph
tawdry island
What’s Wikipedia?
pale nest
Titans gave birth to gods + cyclopses I think
neat crow
I can't tell if that's an earnest question or you're just trolling now
visual laurel
Been trolling for a while but we were giving them benefit of the doubt lmao
Anyways slow your roll, dude
If you're bored there's plenty of other stuff to do
pale nest
Anyone want to bet on if Hades is actually the dad
Or if we’re going to get a glorious teenage “YOU AREN’T MY REAL DAD DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO” moment
neat crow
I'm going with yes, 
is Real Dad™ (in SGG mythos, anyway)
tawdry island
Angry Dad
visual laurel
Zag has the crown and everything...
willow ivy
I can't even begin to guess at what they do with Zag in game
his myth said he was responsible for humans coming into existence but they very clearly already exist here
neat crow
Zag is Dionysus? Zag is one iteration of Dionysus? Zag is Hades? All possibilities from different accounts of the myth
Or completely taking artistic license with it, and none of the above
willow ivy
my favorite is the version where Zag is his own dad
strange cipher
I missed part of the conversation.
pale nest
And it’s been Zag all along
tawdry island
Can Meg fly?
pale nest
Yup
neat crow
The weird part that stands out the most to me in the mythology is where Zagreus is reborn to Semele, a human, but supposedly humans arose from the ashes of the Titans and Zagreus' remains (sans-heart)
pale nest
What I want to know is
Consuming Zag’s heart has been established to impregnate that person with Zag
What if the titans had eaten it like the rest of him
willow ivy
it never said Semele ate the heart
just that Zeus implanted it inside her body
because of course it was Zeus
neat crow
one of the accounts I read said that Zeus ground the heart up and put it in a potion, which Semele drank to be impregnated
Which means that... Zagreus has always been about that grind
willow ivy
your days are numbered sir
neat crow
As are all of our days 
tawdry island
Sounds like the lyrics to that Eve 6 song
strange cipher
Are we ever gonna get full art for any of the characters?
neat crow
Yes, eventually. The game is still in (very) Early Access. Reading #hades-faq might be helpful for similar questions
green nova
Yay, I finally beat the Hydra
neat crow
Congrats!
green nova
thanks, and the conversation between Zag and Hades is great
28 attempts, and with the Bow
is that good?
tawdry island
1 attempt with bow, 1 victory
visual laurel
28 attempts is really good!
neat crow
That seems pretty good Quote!
green nova
I honestly only used the Bow because of the 10% darkness too
neat crow
The bow is generally considered the easiest weapon to win with (not to diminish your accomplishment) - it has excellent damage potential and safety
green nova
Yeah, the Triple shot really helped
willow ivy
christ I didn't get my first win until almost 50 runs
neat crow
It does say "toward" Elysium, not strictly that Elysium is the next area (though not unlikely either). I'd kind of hoped that Mourning Fields would come before Elysium
Elysium feels like it should be the end point for the Underworld adventure, with the possibility of the Isles of the Blessed as an additional area within Elysium, or as the (hopefully) future challenge arena(s)
frozen jolt
zag mentions elysium as well in the overlook
i think its pretty much "confirmed", honestly
i will be very surprised if it isnt the next area
neat crow
I wonder if we'll have to fight Hermes to recover Persephone, since Hermes was sent to retrieve her in myth 
But I mean, Persephone is supposed to return to the Underworld in the winter anyway since she ate pomegranate seeds in the Underworld... So maybe Zag gets out in the winter, only to miss Persephone in the passing and has to fight his way back into the Underworld 😆
visual laurel
how absolutely sisyphean
neat crow
Though if the sacred pomegranate seeds in the Underworld tie those that eat it to the place, what does that bode for Zag?
Also, I don't see how we will avoid having to fight Cerberus if we're trying to leave the Underworld
Unless Orpheus pulls his sleeping doggy trick for us
crisp basin
Stop saying those hurtful words
neat crow
It's Cerberus' job to stop the dead from leaving the Underworld, though. So I guess if you don't want to fight 
you'll have to clear the Underworld on a fresh save run
unkempt locust
Re: Zagreus' father - I'd go with what Wikipedia says. Pretty sure Hades is being petty
neat crow
Even going by what Wikipedia says, there are still multiple accounts. While most say Zeus is the father, it could just as well be Hades. Plus, SGG can do whatever they want, they aren't bound by mythology if they don't want to be. Do we need to start a #DaddyAchilles trend? 
dense fox
I would so laugh if one of the boss fights later on was Cerberus, but instead of being a boss fight he just rolls over and plays dead because he likes you so much and is a good doggo. At least the first time only. Second time onwards Hades repremands him for letting you go first time, and whinnies about how he has to fight zag to which zag goes it's fine buy don't worry about it, we are good
so first time is a free dogo lets you go but second time onwards hades be like bad dog fite my son and zag is like it's fine do what he says and try to kill me, we cool boy
bleak osprey
i’m getting sif feels again
dense fox
also each time you pet him builds up a hidden meter that when full allows one free cerberus escape again before emptying again to repeat. so the better you treat the doggo the more often you don't need to do his boss fight
atomic shale
wait how do you know all this it's insane
atomic shale
also i just noticed the 3 skulls on zag's shoulder look alot like cerberus' skull
bleak osprey
kylestien is speculating ;p
pale nest
I just want to be able to ride my war-doggo into battle
languid cradle
I could see a different format for Elysium or other fields. Maybe a series of miniboss dead unique heroes drawn from a pool rather than rooms of jobbers.
But that is a lot of extra work / voice acting / etc.
Would be cool to draw from the very deep pool of Greek heroes though.
visual laurel
Yeah if we go through Elysium i have high hopes that we'll be able to see some other heroes!!
Personally i rly wanna see Odysseus
And if Patroclus is around, he might be in Elysium. Then again he might not - i'm not sure myth specifies where he ended up
languid cradle
Wonder if we'll get to find out what the other furies are dealing with.
round canyon
Elysium is pretty much heaven, I don't see how it would be the next area on your way out of hell....
pale nest
Something is clearly off with the underworld tho
Like, asphodel isn’t normally a lake of lava
So Elysium might be corrupted as well
honest coral
I'm not an expert but I think elysium is "above" asphodel
Which is "above" tartarus
Like in how far away it is from the surface
round canyon
What I like is how when you beat the Hydra, the narrator says 'let's just assume our hero was killed shortly after'
And the here is not very happy about this 😄
pale nest
I was so salty the first time I got that 😛 Had a ridiculous lifedrinker build going, and was sure I was gonna win
“Let’s just assume he died” “WAIT NO”
honest coral
Probably, I hope so
pale nest
Dunno- they said it was hard to balance
honest coral
Life steal is hard to balance in a roguelike
honest coral
Slay the spire does it by limiting your uses of lifesteal cards by exhausting them (Removing them from your deck for this fight)
pale nest
to getting my first Meg win and Hydra win in the same run
honest coral
You can get around that with a card which gets exhausted cards back, but even that is exhausted once used
Basically lifesteal needs to be very low, or a normal amount of lifesteal but there's a limit on how much you can do per encounter/room
In roguelikes at least
pale nest
Numbskulls continuing to spawn might be a problem there
crisp basin
when lifedrinker was still in game I made a complete new save file and killed the hydra without entering the house of hades once. I think I healed more than 300 life in the hydra fight alone
honest coral
Per kill would be better than the current thing since you can farm health off the same enemy multiple times with the current implementation
round canyon
Per kill would make it next to useless in the hydra fight, though
not that many adds to feast on
Meg... that'd be a real party 😄
crisp basin
well let one green head survive and kill all skeletons
pale nest
Yum
Or maybe making it so it can’t heal you above a certain threshold
Like, it’ll only heal you up to half health max, can’t heal you to full
Or something
“Heals if you are below 30% health”
Might be a bit more balanced than always healing you to full
pale nest
Healed you for like 10% of your life every 3rd sword attack if it hit an enemy
Like, the jab sword attack
It was ridic
round canyon
that's a lot
pale nest
Yup
Made it really easy to just face tank hydra
Walk at it stabbing constantly until it died
Same for literally every enemy in the game
0 skill, easy win, I really did not deserve that first hydra kill 😛
round canyon
Oh... my... god...
Zag and Hades just had the coolest dialogue
Hades opened by - you killed the hydra, I thought that was beyond your skill set, bla-bla
spare frost
hello everybody
round canyon
And Zagreus said - you cheated me, there was nowhere further I could've gone, I could've gone all the way up to mother
spare frost
yeah, they are breaking the 4th wall
round canyon
Hades - you should've known a large portion of my domain is under renovation 😄
Zag - you can't keep this place on lockdown, the mortal up there would not stand for it
Hades - then you have no patience, same as them. It matters not to me, you can wait for eternity
So cool ❤
spare frost
does anyone know if we lose the progress when the next update hits?
spare frost
not really
you know what build you prefer
and already have experience beating the first two floors
I hope they drop the progress
round canyon
I don't want to lose 40 runs, that's just bad....
spare frost
most player are probably way to overleveled by now
round canyon
Dead Cells came out of early access a while back
round canyon
And they left a msg in the game - hey, you can keep playing your old game, but why not start a new one, to see all the cool stuff we added
spare frost
sure they can do that
round canyon
I have about 2700 darkness. Some people have a lot more, I guess
That's a lot to give up 😄
spare frost
also I hope that later on Hades will be one of the available gods
frozen jolt
you know, you have 3 save slots
you can start a new one
progress will not be erased if avoidable
round canyon
I noticed that Zag's dash does not leave floor marks in his room or the house of hades
silk fern
they have a bunch of dialogue for reasoning your untimely demise after hydra
A nice lil nod from the devs for sure
atomic forge
I cant really see Hades helping you escape 😅
lime yoke
that awkward moment when ur having the last conversation with Achilles and Meg's standing right next to you XD
runic terrace
"haha no date zagreus" "i dont see you moving either, meg,"
open panther
question: I did a Trial of the Gods last night and Artemis was quite annoyed that she would even bother with a half-god. But from what I understand all of the Olympians are under the impression that Nyx is your mother, meaning Zagreus should be a full god. Is this a continuity error or am I missing something?
willow ivy
even if they knew his mother was Persephone, they should still think he was a full god
unless you're referring to some of them calling Zag "Godling"
which just means he hasn't fully grown into his power or been given a defined role
lime yoke
the awkward ex hears talk about another awkward ex xD no wonder she's so done
willow ivy
weird
regardless of his believed parentage, the only options are full gods on both sides
bleak osprey
Why would you side with...?! Ugh, why do I even bother with some half-god...
willow ivy
it might be some unintentional spoiler
or just a bit of a miscommunication with what the Olympians consider to be a full god
lime yoke
maybe she means that in a half-brother/half-cousin way and is just awkward or got the words wrong
idk
frozen jolt
maybe she just doesnt mean literally
atomic shale
i think there are some gods that figure it out iirc
amber canyon
Nyx isnt exactly a goddess in the traditional sense
Unlike Persephone who actually is
Nyx is more of a personification of the night
atomic shale
but wasn't Persephone a mortal that Hades kidnapped
willow ivy
no
atomic shale
ok i need to read up on my greek mythology
willow ivy
she was the daughter of Zeus and Demeter
willow ivy
no
atomic shale
im just going to shut up now.
willow ivy
Demeter is the goddess of Law and Agriculture
amber canyon
Aye
Demeter is one of the original 6 elder gods
Also the reason were gonna get Scythe if my theory is correct
So yeah, as a result, Persephone is a full-fledged goddess
And Zag is too
willow ivy
unless they throw a curveball at us and make Achilles the father
or even
Bouldy
I always knew that rock looked shifty
amber canyon
But hes got a solid alibi
willow ivy
actually can we appreciate that Bouldy has a "face" because of Sisyphus slowly wearing holes into it with his hands and head?
amber canyon
Oh I thought he carved them in
willow ivy
he might have
but the position is just perfect for if he was planting his head against the boulder while pushing it up the hill
willow ivy
amber canyon
Thats one way to deskribe your reaction
fast turret
is the Hydra homing shotgun attack a bit too good or am I just that bad
it seems really fast and does a ton of damage all while homing
amber canyon
Its quite powerful, but its not fully homing
So you can dodge it or let it hit the wall
willow ivy
The big issue that it has is if you get hit by one of the first few you get stunlocked into taking 45+ damage
amber canyon
And if youre not careful, you will quickly find that you hydran out of health
bleak osprey
yeah the stunlock-into-even-more-damage is brutal
willow ivy
I lost so many runs to it before I finally got gud and learned how to see it coming
amber canyon
Shouldnt you be called Dr. Gudtouch then?
fast turret
I know it's not fully homing, but the homing is quite stong still
and yeah the stunlock is the worst part
willow ivy
Perhaps Owen, perhaps
ebon musk
why can't bone serpent's projectiles be deflected? if not, atleast a deflect would make it go away or do a tiny bit less damage, right now they don't seem that fair compared to the one other projectile there is
willow ivy
I'm assuming because they realized deflection makes just about everything non-threatening
amber canyon
Oh you madman, you actually did it
willow ivy
sick grove
They're pink. Pink=can't be deflected. Pink crystal beams can't be deflected either. Still think they need a better moment to demonstrate this, either by adding another enemy or by having skelly tell you about it.
Stunlock is frust, but I always recommend playing on the corners of the map and behind cover, never the center.
silk fern
you can reflect the pinky purple balls from witches tho
I think the colours on projectile types need to be way clearer and distinct
neat crow
There's definitely a problem in my opinion with the similarity between the pink and purple projectile colours
Has this been in feedback already? I'm pretty sure it has, but I should check
Yup, Jyak mentioned it on Dec 30th
bleak osprey
yeah, it's the first result when you search deflect in: hades-feedback
sick grove
Witches balls are purple, yeah. The crystal beams and the hydra's projectiles are both a bright pink in hue.
neat crow
Maybe they're more contrasted (or slightly more, at least) normally, but I typically have f.lux enabled on my computer and play when it's dark out, so my monitor colours are slightly shifted to red anyway. This probably makes them look even more similar
bleak osprey
yeah, i keep forgetting to make sure flux turns off when i'm playing hades :'D
fast turret
are all pink projectiles immune to deflect? I can only think of Hydra's
Brimstones don't really count because laser is not a projectile
frozen jolt
you can deflect meg's but they dont hurt her
i think theyre purple tho
honestly they all look purple to me but i havent played or gotten to the hydra in a bit
fast turret
I think they do hurt her but they deal 4 dmg or something
speaking of which, why can that attack of hers activate when you're very close and near a wall
you just eat damage with no clear way to react
am I blind and missing an animation or something?
frozen jolt
it does have a little wind-up (is that the word?)
she also always says "dodge this/take this" etc and yells when shes about to do that attack
fast turret
in my experience she says that after she already started the attack
but this attack in particular feels like it should have a longer animation I think
compare that to her normal dash attack, that is so much weaker but has an start up animation that's like 3 times longer
crisp basin
I'm okay with meg. You can still react fast enough and I had several no hit kills on her. The hydraheads and their bite animation on the other hand 
fast turret
I've had several situations where I was in a bad enough place that no matter the reaction time I would've gotten hit, three dashes just weren't enough
though to be fair that is mostly my fault being there in the first place, still, it feels pretty bad to get hit by that
and yeah Hydra's bite is weird all around, hitbox even
solemn hinge
honestly, i feel like the hydra fight would be much better if we had the camera stay the same as it is in every other fight
considering it doesn't change vs meg
and then just changes vs hydra
crisp basin
You won't see any hydrahead colors, fire or skeletons and cast attack from the main hydra. Ever dashed into the hydra when it is impervious? You will be sometimes send right into the lava. Losing overview in this situation is your death. Idk keeping the cam on zag would make the fight much harder and I see/read that a lot of people have problems killing it.
onyx spoke
Yeah I think the camera angle is fine the way it is for Hydra, the problem with Hydra is how cluttered the screen gets and the similar colors between everything happening.
You know how in fighting games you sometimes lose track of where you are? The Hydra fight is like never knowing where you are in the first place
honest coral
@solemn hinge I think that'd be worse, given you might be fighting a head and then not be able to see what the main head is up to
Meaning you might be completely blindsided by purple spike projectiles
green nova
When do Kratos appear?
restive elk
And leave us without boons? Nononononononono
green nova
I hope the final game will have an option to let you play with preset boons.
atomic forge
That sort of defeats the purpose of a rogue like.
honest coral
Adding a way to set seeds would be a good compromise, like in other roguelikes
And based off the code there's already framework for set seeds
solemn hinge
@honest coral i would just make use of audio queues
meg already has that done pretty well
honest coral
Meg also doesn't have 7 heads on screen at any one time all doing different things
solemn hinge
yeah, i do think the sudden shift in camera does affect the difficulty though
honest coral
Ok
solemn hinge
considering i feel it is more difficult to tell what heads are doing when i am closer to them than further away
since zag and the weapon animations clutter the screen as well
regal kraken
I finally encountered Megaera. Good lord, is she brutal.
onyx spoke
it gets worse
actually she isn't that bad if you have 3 dashes
stark tulip
Using the bow to fight her is brutal
neat crow
If by brutal you mean very tactically sound and successful?
stark tulip
Oh I’ve found myself having trouble timing the charge on the bow and avoiding her fairly quick attacks but yeah
eternal nest
the bow is pritty hard i think ive only beat meg once using it but i dont rrealy use the bow so..that could explain it.
neat crow
The bow takes some practice to get used to, but once you do it's arguably the easiest weapon in the game to win with (currently)
stark tulip
Yeah I find that generally I’m Not Good so I just use shield and whack
eternal nest
yeah but ive only just beaten the game with the sword today
when do you think new wepons will be added ?
neat crow
I have no idea, honestly. We're kind of hoping for a new weapon with the next major update, but can't say if it will happen or not
eternal nest
ok, thats cool i was just wondering
@neat crow i was just wonderring, will you keep prrogrress when the next major update hits
neat crow
They've said that they will try to avoid any progress wipes where possible. This is covered in #hades-faq , though 
eternal nest
k
agile agate
Any clue on what will be added in the next major update ?
lime yoke
nope
we have few guesses but we'll get to see what's the scale of updates when the first one drops
sleek cape
amber canyon
Being a "major update", it will certainly add something
What that is, remains to be seen
Which could also be Skellys stagename for his career as a comedian
fast turret
"Major updates should make significant additions, e.g. new characters, environments, weapons, or game systems."
certainly something, no one knows what tho
fast turret
I just beat hydra for the first time with the most stupid yet strong build I've played
sword, hammer upgrade for special, athena boon for special, skull earing and somehow 5 death defiances
almost 300 damage while deflecting everything in a big radius
honest coral
I'm expecting there to be a new god or two and another weapon
Probably a new area in the next update if not this one
Also same for rooms in the house of hades, challenges / modifiers like in previous supergiant games. But that might be later down the line
pale nest
Congrats @fast turret !
Athena sword special is one of my favs too
I’m hoping for another flashback this update
gray ruin
Ooh the sword is the only weapon i havent killed the hydra with
gray ruin
I mostly play ranged so the sword is a bit hard for me to get used to
fast turret
yeah blade flurry is awesome
but I'm just in awe at how good that builed turned out to be
hitting multiple hydra heads at the same time was interesting
pale nest
Very nice
unkempt locust
I too am having issues with sword. I've completed at least one run with other weapons
primal flame
finally got a win, who knew there was an easy way to deal with hydra darts
gray ruin
Gratz! what weapon did you use?
primal flame
Shield but now I immediately won my second run with triple shot bow, my god is that thing crazy
primal flame
Hydra wasn't able to do more than 3 abilities without going into the next phase
last sand
i won my first run with spear, but now i can't win with anything but bow. idk if it's just cause of my lack of knowledge about what boons i should be focusing or i just suck xD
green nova
Can you reflect Hydra projectiles?
worn cipher
No
You can reflect the projectiles from the Hydra heads but not the pink darts from the main head
restive elk
Well I beat hydra second time... Dont really see any progress beyond "Get an epic Athena's cast, and get it to 350+ damage"... meh
grim oracle
try and see how well that build holds up in elysium 
restive elk
Weeeeeeeell It's not all about Cast, but I just really want That at some point we will have "Training room for bosses", like Crypt of the Necrodancer did it.
scenic comet
@fast turret How the heck did you get five defiances? I never can find one in the shops after the first one.
The weapon I haven't completed Hydra with is shield, I've found that doing Zeus helps me a lot as well.
fast turret
I had 3 at the begining and just found 2, I dunno
willow ivy
it's just a rare shop item, buying it doesn't remove it from the pool
if you find enough pools and have the money to spare it's reasonable
scenic comet
Yeah, I guess I'm just unlucky then. 😄
I tend to do Artemis or Zeus dash with sword and pom it up.
visual laurel
WRONG CHANNEL
wow i'm good at this
@spiral saddle sorry for double-ping
anyways it seemed to me like persephone had been gone for a long time, zag's never met her
and he definitely didn't grow up in a single season
neat crow
That's a fair point
visual laurel
and she states in her letter that she's not returning to olympus, but to the earth
so she's still not returning to her mother
which is how the myth goes
neat crow
I've honestly forgotten the content of the letter 
I should replay from the beginning again soon... Probably not until the update though
visual laurel
well that's the mystery, isn't it! she seems unhappy both with olympus and with the underworld
spiral saddle
also what was the deal Achilles and hades made
neat crow
As far as I know it's not mentioned what the deal was, just that there is a deal
If you're talking about in-game
spiral saddle
ye
neat crow
In myth, I'm pretty certain Achilles is supposed to be in Elysium
visual laurel
hades hired achilles to be zag's trainer/mentor but we don't know what was in it for achilles
other than...not...being bored
spiral saddle
i dont think it was to be mentor because in one of the things when you start a run it seems that hades is traning zag
neat crow
For all we know his deal involved training Zag in exchange for being reunited with Patroclus
visual laurel
he sure hasn't been yet, though
so if that's the deal hades isn't keeping up his end
which, while normal for a lot of gods, is uncharacteristic for hades
i'd say
neat crow
You're assuming that Hades would consider Zag's training complete
visual laurel
that's true
though, idk, i didn't...get the sense from the convos about patroclus that any sort of
progress
had been made towards finding him
if that makes sense.
neat crow
Yeah
visual laurel
if it was a matter of waiting until a certain day i feel like that would have a different tone associated with it?
visual laurel
less "i don't think we'll meet again and even if we did patroclus would be right to hate me"
so whatever the deal was, i don't really think patroclus was part of it.
neat crow
Being that they mention it, I would say we will find out for sure eventually
visual laurel
hold on i'm looking in an lp for the text of persephone's letter
spiral saddle
i just listended to the leter since im on like run 8 ish but i skiped it
visual laurel
"Hades: I can no longer tolerate my life here in this place. So, I am leaving, even if it kills me. I won't be returning to Olympus. If there is a place where I belong in this world, it must be somewhere between heaven and hell. Perhaps it's on the coast, and has a little garden. Take care of Cerberus; I shall miss him. Persephone"
we know she's not dead; Nyx says as much
normal rover
It's odd she makes no mention of Z
neat crow
So Zag's true goal wouldn't be to reach Olympus, then, unless to first seek aid from the Olympians
spiral saddle
wait, even if zag does manage to escape hes still bound to hell so if he died once leaving he would return back to hades
neat crow
It sounds like she's taking refuge on the mortal plane
spiral saddle
ye
visual laurel
it is really weird she doesn't mention Zag, yeah.
neat crow
There might be something to that...
Crackpot theory incoming
If Persephone is Zag's mother as we are led to believe, but the letter doesn't mention Zagreus, could it be that the letter isn't written by Persephone but instead by an Olympian who didn't know of Zagreus' existence? We know from myth that Hermes was sent to retrieve Persephone from Hades...
visual laurel
why tho, is the question then
normal rover
The current running theory in my household is that she isn't his mother and the narrator has his own agenda for saying she is.
visual laurel
oh, you mean
just to like
confuse the situation, yeah
the narrator is also very sus
spiral saddle
it was written by persephone because the narrator says "written by his mothers hand"
neat crow
To cover their tracks, yeah
normal rover
It is the narrator that says 'written in his mother's hand' but remember how Z reacts
neat crow
I'm not saying it's a perfect theory, as prefaced by crackpot
normal rover
I don't think he's even seen his mother's handwriting
visual laurel
like whose side he's on precisely is unclear; a lot of the comments he makes are inconsequential at best
why is he even talking, and who is he talking to?
most of what he says are things zag already knows.
spiral saddle
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
visual laurel
with the exception of the mother thing, which, again
neat crow
In the credits the narrator is the Storyteller, so there could be some meat to that argument
visual laurel
that's a dream
pale nest
Plot twist Hades is his real mother
pale nest
Or even better
Skelly is
And that’s the real reason Skelly sticks around to get beat up- it’s the easiest way for Skelly to keep an eye on Zag
visual laurel
what's the word? autochthonic? autochthonous
maybe zag just sprang up out of the darkness one day and hades and persephone were like yeah sure
neat crow
Oh, I see what you're trying to get at with the word
visual laurel
there's a word for the beings that just kind of spring into existence in greek myth
anyways
i do think it's very sly, achilles' codex entry on zag saying "one look at him and there can be no question of his parentage" lol
that's literally the entire question, achilles, but thanks anyways
spiral saddle
now that i think of it what even is the cast
neat crow
It's a "Bloodstone"
visual laurel
achilles got his degree in murder but took one freshman level class in history and now he thinks he's qualified to write a codex
neat crow
My running theory is it has something to do with his red eye that is as-yet unexplained
pale nest
Skelly is also Hades’s mom
visual laurel
and meg's
spiral saddle
skelly is everyones mom
visual laurel
it's ok i like this better than "skelly is patroclus"
neat crow
There is definite resemblance between Hades and Zagreus in my opinion, but as for a mother ¯_(ツ)_/¯
visual laurel
like you could say zag has a weird eye and a "normal" eye because he's half chthonic and half olympian
but
pale nest
Skelly isn’t actually being paid ;_; Just wants to hang out with angsty son
Zag’s only half god somehow tho
spiral saddle
persephone is part god i think??
neat crow
Persephone is full god
visual laurel
i...think he's looked down on for being young and not having a defined domain
normal rover
Persephone is all goddess
spiral saddle
ok
pale nest
Nah she’s a full goddess
visual laurel
persephone is all goddess
pale nest
His domain is sass
spiral saddle
wasnt sure
neat crow
The god of talking back to Hades
visual laurel
the god of not cleaning his room
i do think when artemis calls him a half-god it's out of anger and as an attempt to belittle him, not about whether he's actually factually a demi-god
generally demigods don't do so hot in the underworld either, they're mostly mortal
pale nest
Ooh so half as in small not half as in mixed
visual laurel
half as in small or ill-defined, i think, yeah
spiral saddle
that makes more sense
visual laurel
like even for hercules who's the most godly demigod i can think of, going down into the underworld was hella hard
neat crow
Nowhere in the mythology is it implied that he's less than a full god, so I doubt SGG would deviate from that, but who knows
visual laurel
i mean the "mythology" about zagreus is four lines from fragmented poems
neat crow
Fair enough
visual laurel
and then the use of his name as an epithet for dionysus, sometimes, which
dionysus has a weird, weird history anyways.
an epithet for *orphic dionysus
not even the normal dionysus.
visual laurel
mk! thanks for dropping by, lol
neat crow
See you around Akai!
ionic hinge
What if Zagreus on reaching Olympus gets the power of Dionysus and becomes a full fledged god
visual laurel
i mean, i think we were questioning whether he's even going to olympus, ultimately? the olympian gods seem to think so, but the letter zag has to go by implies persephone is on earth
cold canopy
maybe the final boss is when you are on earth and now hades and the olympus gods are both tryin to punish you at the same time
crisp basin
Than they steal your boons they gave you and the people from the house of tartarus supports you onwards with boons.
Getting megs whip as an attack addition 
onyx spoke
I still firmly believe the game takes place in modern day, just with gods
why else are there McDonald's fries
dense fox
It would be one hell of a twist if the enterence to the underworld had a fast food joint built on top of it
lime yoke
their fries are to die for
willow ivy
dense fox
Explains how they get all their employees, they ask Hades to borrow some dammed souls
willow ivy
I can't reasonably believe it takes place in modern day
nothing would ever get done
Hermes strolls up to Olympus "You won't believe what the humans have done this time"
"They taught rocks how to think"
Athena gets jealous for no percievable reason and convinces Ares to start a war
Zeus spends a full year trying to seduce one of these new "computer" things
this is assuming humanity would still be around after centuries of dealing with the ever increasing hordes of Zeus' half-breed abominations
neat crow
Maybe it's both... At the end, the screen pans out to an old Historian in an arm chair (the Storyteller) in modern day, closing the Book of Zagreus
dense fox
the storyteller is Zag having escaped
grizzled trail
You lake artemis's bonus shots that do % of your damage. That would be a real boost XD
grizzled trail
I can see that, which is a shame
primal flame
how is that keepsake treating you? 
grizzled trail
Would the artemis arrowhead be better to make sure you get the cast asap and can start scalling damage real fast?
crisp basin
i feel like after bone hourgless/cyclopse jerky nerf with the last patch they also reduced the chance of occuring in the shops
so the braid atlas and the cyclopse jerky chance to be buyable. idk. I literally played every run just with bone hourgless from the beginning and my record was stacking 4 ichors at once and 3 cyclopse jerkys in another run
restive elk
I had arrowhead untill Meg
grizzled trail
ahhhhh, good choice my mistake
restive elk
Welp I messed up and died nothing new.
lunar axle
I spent like the first hour of the game thinking "these people, how they dare to erase Persephone from the myths" etc etc
Until i realized that the fruit that boost gods blessings was a pogmer... That fruit.
Of the myths
And then the flashback
There is another myth that points to a cruel twist and future boss, the most famous guardian of Hades
restive elk
Well nobody in that house is giving discounts for family members, so it's a given.
pale nest
No I refuse
restive elk
Hm
restive elk
There is no way to see how much runs you cleared other that win, or I missed something?
outer ore
yeah it should be added to the pool really
but since you are technically dying after hydra its a bit wishy washy
what happens after an update?
restive elk
Who knows?
outer ore
tracking finish rate per update cycle seems a bit excessive ?
if the first cycle is indicative once per ~38 days on a yearish early access cycle gives us ~10 updates = 8 x stats
ugh
10 x stats
willow ivy
But it’s also an excellent way to see the effect major balance changes have on the game
How does winrate in this cycle compare to the previous? What have the players had to change to adapt?
bleak osprey
it'd be nice to have some sort of stats menu, like, maybe a ledger in zag's room if we keep with the idea of room decor
outer ore
But it’s also an excellent way to see the effect major balance changes have on the game <- the devs are for sure doing this already, I am not sure I would go that deep myself for a single player game but each to his own : )
onyx spoke
someone in feedback suggested a keepsake that removes your ability to get upgrades
what if Hades was the one who gave it to you
runic terrace
hey son i have a present for you
its. cursed artifact
restive elk
Ha! Knew it! I had no stats at the end because of language.
fickle garden
we need to have Dusa be an unlockable weapon.
neat crow
Why do you want to be cruel to poor lil'
There are surely better ways to get ahead in the game
amber canyon
Sure, but much like Dusa herself, most of them have glaring issues
neat crow
All in all, I think this idea will get a stony reception
runic terrace
yea
amber canyon
Why is english so dumb
runic terrace
like ppl wont like it. theyll look at you stonefaced
amber canyon
Shame, because I was saving up the "you had to be stoned to come up with that idea" pun
Well, I suppose I shouldnt have taken the opportunity for granite
neat crow
I suppose I have an unfair advantage being a native English speaker, but there are a lot of non-native English speakers here that do extremely well
amber canyon
Well Im not a native english speaker
neat crow
I know, that's what I was getting at
neat crow
I think your command of the language is pretty gneiss
amber canyon
Id call it rock solid, at least
neat crow
Mmmmm, I can hardly wait for the rush of fresh feedback in just over a week
amber canyon
Oh yeah
neat crow
I'm verily quaking with excitement
neat crow
Gah, I've been having serious typing issues this evening... I blame splicing wires in the cold for 8 hours
scenic comet
Language is weird. And Unovven, you do fine.
scenic comet
German's weirdness is its capability to capture sensations by compounding it all down into one word.
amber canyon
Which english then "borrows"
But yeah, german is great at making new words
You can just combine old words
scenic comet
Hence the pun about compounding. 😄
amber canyon
I ... missed the pun
scenic comet
Combining two functional words into one new word is a compound word.
amber canyon
Ohh
scenic comet
Like word+play becoming wordplay.
amber canyon
Well, yknow, when coining words an old english phrase applies
"In for a penny, in for a (com)pound"
amber canyon
That may just be my magnum opus
neat crow
Words are wonderful, like take the Finnish word kalsarikännit
amber canyon
Or the welsh word Cwrth
scenic comet
And here I sit going "I can't translate those into sound, stupid brainweird."
neat crow
Or the hashtag #off-topic-discussion
amber canyon
Stupid rigid channel system trying to contain emergent discussion
neat crow
One day Discord will (probably won't) introduce a move message function 😆
scenic comet
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/340618610227544065/532105427043876884/unknown.png?width=2179&height=1360 Found the thing I was trying to get in regards to Meg/Zagreus.
dense fox
mfw you are not sure if hades is being a good wingman or if he just wants zag to stop being a whiny person
scenic comet
Or a semi-creepy dad.
dense fox
why not all 3
scenic comet
True.
dense fox
"Hey Zag, we don't get a lot of non tormented souls here so I've arranged a hookup. This is meg, she likes long walks in Tartarus, ambrosia on the rocks, and whipping boys into men quite literally. Have fun." - Hades.
and somehow they reallu hit it off
primal flame
visual laurel
I uhhhh definitely took that in a creepy way
especially given the aggressive and demeaning tone a lot of those openers have
like even if his intention was good (which i kind of doubt) how would you feel about your parents choosing a partner for you and shoving them at you while saying "you're a wimp, you need to start dating" whether you wanted that, liked that person, or felt ready for it or not
like, luckily it seems like zag and meg ended up getting along, but not because of anything hades did lol.
last sand
maybe it was cause meg secretly likes getting beaten 
visual laurel
hm! interesting theory. let's not pursue that any further in this server, please
last sand
sounds good to me
dense fox
Interesting boss idea, heartwarming and funny bit I had: at some point you fight all three furies at once, and when you win they retreat to the next room to summon a secret weapon: cerberus! Both zag and cerb don't want to fight each other, but then Zag gets up close, pats him and go "it's fine lad, i know you got to do your job and youy don't want to let down dads, so do whatever you have to to beat me. it's cool. The middle head agrees with this. the left and right head, taking this into account, take the chance to eat zag whole and send him back to hades. cue zag going "that was a dirty trick boy, but nice. i won't play nice next time." to which dogo barks affirmitivly
then next time you fight cerberus after the furies