You don’t need a combo, you can just get extra dashes
#h1-builds-and-combat
long escarp
verbal fjord
That's also true
last dirge
Yeah
verbal fjord
Extra dashes is always nice
long escarp
Hyper Delivery is busted, but you can also just get Greatest Reflex or Hyper on its own
Or even Evasion is pretty good
last dirge
I always get +3 dashes with greater reflex
Never ruthless
If you have ruthless, bonus dashes are huge
verbal fjord
Yeah, some of the green mirror upgrades just, don't seem nearly as good as the purple
last dirge
Ruthless is good imo
Just usually harder
I mostly want the dashes for fluidity and the buffs
long escarp
Ruthless is extremely good. Just very hard to make the best use of
last dirge
Even +1 is good
verbal fjord
Tho, I'm told you need certain upgrades to get certain boons...
last dirge
+3 is just constant dmg and dodge
Not that I know of
Some mirror stuff boosts rarity
Adds rerolls
long escarp
Can’t get Lightning Rod with Stygian soul
proper furnace
Hermes legebdary depends on infernal/stygian too
long escarp
Chaos gives you backstab or first hit depending on shadow or fiery
last dirge
Yeah
verbal fjord
I just run all purple, it's worked out for me so far
last dirge
Usually yeah tbh
verbal fjord
Death defiance especially
last dirge
I assume they don't have it yet
proper furnace
Pancake dont be so dramatic
Just say you recommend dark foresight lol
long escarp
last dirge
Like that tier
long escarp
Pancake dont be so dramatic
Just say you recommend dark foresight lol
Lmao
last dirge
The bottom greens are great
verbal fjord
What I need is my boi skelly to come back
worn solar
just turn on ri1
long escarp
You also want family favorite
worn solar
strange lark
What I **need** is my boi skelly to come back
Switch weapons, he should appear after that
last dirge
Idk. I sometimes feel like I prefer shadow or just default to it for bosses
Since they're easy to backstab
verbal fjord
Thank you aoeui
last dirge
Normal enemies are harder though ofc
verbal fjord
Best boi has come home
long escarp
But seriously I highly highly suggest not ever using Olympian Favor over Dark Foresight (unless you’re an RTA runner or something idk I know they talk about that)
verbal fjord
Rta?
verbal fjord
Ah
long escarp
Speedrunners who run based on real time and not IGT
strange lark
But seriously I *highly* **highly** suggest not ever using Olympian Favor over D...
Rta runners use Olympian favor? I mean there will be less menus but is it really worth it?
last dirge
Oh, and stygian is usually better than infernal
long escarp
I just didn’t want to be corrected so I added that
long escarp
Oh, and stygian is usually better than infernal
Strong disagree
proper furnace
Having casts is nice
last dirge
For most builds it's easier to use
long escarp
I used to prefer Stygian but it’s really good to be able to get Phalanx or Flood shot and actually use it for room clear
last dirge
You're just using cast for bosses and some other enemies you want dead faster
Fair
Usually I don't go for things I dont have in mind
Too many goals will end in none fulfilled sometimes
proper furnace
Stygian for the better slighty chance of good hermes boons
long escarp
Stygian is nice because one less Hermes boon. But I really prefer Infernal tbh
last dirge
Am I confusing the two?
long escarp
Infernal is 3 casts
proper furnace
I like being able to snipe more enemies
long escarp
Being able to throw in a decent cast for room clear goes a long way imo
long escarp
Just sometimes I dont want infernal on my Arthur run
I’m a big fan of Phalanx shot on Arthur
I don’t force it, but it’s great if I see it
Makes it easier to approach fast enemies
last dirge
Maybe yeah. I could do that with 1 cast though
long escarp
Less effectively though
last dirge
And I can still get another stone if I get a good cast
If I dont, it wont make or break usually
I think its really preference
last dirge
I was refering to stygian blocking some boons, generally just being more convenient for boiling blood
Casts get stuck in bosses easily
That's usually where I'd use a cast for bonus dmg
verbal fjord
What is y'all's favorite and least favorite weapon? I'm curious to hear what you like and dislike (not including aspects, cus I don't have the hiddens yet)
proper furnace
base aspect probably bow
opaque sky
I dislike the sword
strange lark
Shield is my favorite and sword is least favorite
long escarp
I love shield and rail, I like bow. I enjoy some spear and sword builds, and dislike/tolerate everything else
opaque sky
it’s close range, like gauntlets, but not fast like gauntlets
long escarp
Sword is hard and also weird and also not that good
opaque sky
the hidden aspect tho lol
verbal fjord
I agree, sword would 100% be my least favorite weapon
long escarp
Arthur? Yeah Arthur is just the last of those 3 things
opaque sky
just makes it even more unwieldy and encourages tanky and beeg swing
da beegest swing
verbal fjord
And the special is vastly inferior to pretty much any other special
long escarp
Poseidon sword is fun though. At least at low heat. Phalanx Shot is fun
long escarp
And the special is vastly inferior to pretty much any other special
No shot
Sword special is pretty decent
long escarp
Base spear and base shield special are insanely beyond useless
15 base damage on shield special lmao
verbal fjord
Fair enough, base spear special isn't great
long escarp
Sword uses special as a part of its core attack combo
It’s decent at worst
50 base damage, big AOE, pushes enemies away, decently quick
The issue is the actual sword attack combo
It’s super slow and does very little damage
That’s why the only way most people play sword is just dash-strike -> dash-strike -> special
strange lark
Dstrike -> dstrike -> attack -> special if you play on kbm
long escarp
Wait what
strange lark
On kbm its hard to do the normal combo without accidentally attacking after dstriking
Maybe it's just me
long escarp
Lmao
long escarp
And what’s the single dash sword combo? Dash-strike -> attack -> special? Was that it?
I’m pretty sure there was an attack in there
Maybe that’s just for ME
strange lark
Yeah I think that's it
long escarp
Still, sword is more fun to play for me than Zag bow. Unless my damage is really good on Zag bow, then it’s pretty fun
I might make a tier list based on how much I enjoy playing each aspect
strange lark
Do it
long escarp
Wait it’s weird because hammers
Like Zag shield is really fun with CShot is miserable without
Zag rail with Spread Fire is the same way
And Zag/Hades spear with Exploding Launcher
long escarp
Maybe not. But I’m not comfortable with it
turbid needle
I feel like it’s hard to mess up shield builds because no matter how trash your build is you can always block
strange lark
I frame it
turbid needle
Ah yes, I’ve been ducking that option 😓
long escarp
I always use TD3
Anyway, should I rank assuming I get the hammer that makes it playable (for me)? Because I only play that aspect if I’m resetting for that hammer. But at the same time, an aspect like Hera which is always fun (except at 40+ heat) doesn’t feel like it belongs in the same tier as an aspect that is only fun if I spend a bunch of time to reset for a specific hammer
strange lark
I think you should rank the aspects based on what they are by themselves
long escarp
Alright
strange lark
Or you could like make a separate rank for aspects that require a specific hammer
long escarp
strange lark
Gilg not f tier smh
long escarp
Dashing is fun
Attacking, not fun
But dash only Gil runs can be fun
For sure
Especially when I get tidal with every single Poseidon T2 and legendary and also sea storm and every single Zeus T2 and legendary
long escarp
I don’t like fists
verbal fjord
I'ma have to look at the aspects again cus I don't remember the icons
long escarp
Btw items within tiers are not ordered
strange lark
I don’t like fists
Ok but I don't think it should be on the same tier as gilg
strange lark
But the dashes gilg gives you are ass
long escarp
True
long escarp
Gilgamesh is definitely F tier if I’m actually using the attack or special (outside of ME. Actually no, even ME)
verbal fjord
Wait, why is Aspect of Talos not good on fists?
long escarp
Oh this isn’t based off how good they are
It’s 100% opinion of how much I like playing them
verbal fjord
Oh, gotcha
long escarp
But also I don’t think Talos is good. But that’s entirely not related
verbal fjord
Cus I was about to say, Aspect of Talos got me through the final boss the first time
long escarp
I used to use Talos
strange lark
Magnet fist funni
long escarp
But it’s just so weak
verbal fjord
But the range on the magnet pull is insane
long escarp
But it makes my special slower
verbal fjord
At least we agree that aspect of Eris Exagryph is amazing
long escarp
So true
proper furnace
global dmg good? 
long escarp
Indeed
strange lark
Rail on kbm 😔
verbal fjord
Random question, when do I get the hidden aspects?
strange lark
When the gods say so
long escarp
Honestly Zag rail could be higher because rail is still fun. But I can’t shake the thought that I’m just playing much worse Eris (unless I get spread fire, then it’s really fun)
proper furnace
Random question, when do I get the hidden aspects?
#h1-story-discussion pins, if you already met the requisites then yeah when the gods says so
lucid oar
Spread fire zag rail with +3 dashes is a dream
verbal fjord
I will check the pins
lucid oar
Especially if you get a fat chaos attack and smoldering air or something juicy like that
verbal fjord
@long escarp Ricochet Shot, Zeus Attack is excellent for crowd control I think
long escarp
Wym
verbal fjord
Is it not?
long escarp
Ricochet fire on non-Hestia is sad tbh
long escarp
Is it not?
On Zag rail?
lucid oar
What are the other options
verbal fjord
On Exagryph in general...
long escarp
Only Hestia imo
I mean Ricochet can alright on Eris
But it’s definitely not a high pick in terms of hammers
lucid oar
It would be good if rocket or cluster didnt exist
lucid oar
Basically if eris was purely attack focussed
Yeah those are better
Targetting quite good on hestia
long escarp
Targeting is always pretty good
Rail probably has the most decent hammers but it still has some that are just bad
But less than other weapons
strange lark
Spear hammers
verbal fjord
Need an Aspect of Poseidon build, what boons ya got?
long escarp
Phalanx Shot
strange lark
Lightning phalanx
long escarp
LP is good but not necessary. Which is part of why Phalanx is so good
lucid oar
Mirage shot and exit wounds
strange lark
Just get every cast boon you can find
long escarp
Definitely start Phalanx, and go from there, with an eye out for Zeus for LP and Artemis for Exit Wounds and maybe even Fully Loaded
lucid oar
And pom the crap outta them
long escarp
And Flurry Cast
Yeah, don’t take too many pommable boons because you want every pom on the cast is possible
verbal fjord
Wait, does the phalenx shot stick? I thought it didnt
lucid oar
Yeah it does
strange lark
It does
long escarp
Phalanx Shot has really been growing on me. I think it has to be the best overall cast in the game
lucid oar
Ive really been liking it at high heat
lucid oar
Splitters just die instantly
strange lark
Yeah
verbal fjord
Honestly, I don't use casts too often, but after beating the snot outta big daddy H with an Ares Cast Build, I realize now that I should
strange lark
Deflect and high damage is very pog
long escarp
Phalanx is the best cast for nearly any non-cast centered build. Although Flood is great for aspects that lack AOE
lucid oar
The Styx shredder
long escarp
Indeed
verbal fjord
The Styx shredder
That was my nickname in highschool
long escarp
strange lark
last dirge
I want to try poseidon + cod + dash nova
Jeez if, what was it called, lock nova? If it still existed, that'd be so fun with cod
It's a very unsafe cast, but it can do some pretty huge damage
I think True Shot can still hold up
It's also good if you want to do an Exit Wounds build
MEsidon? Ares attack athena special, phalanx, exit wounds
Crush Shot is great too
It's better on other aspects probably but it's just a good cast anyway
vale lantern
Is exclusive access good if I get it in asphodel?
long escarp
It’s not bad
If you get it before Hermes, that can be good
It really depends on a lot of things
But worst case scenario you just get some extra rarity and then sell it for 400+ gold
vale lantern
But worst case scenario you just get some extra rarity and then sell it for 400+...
I’m doing Demeter dio build, should I go for that or peer pressure?
vale lantern
Ok
long escarp
Actively hurts you
vale lantern
Will be going for exclusive access then cause I don’t really use the cast as much as I probably should be and the only other option is trippy shot
Trippy shot is decent?
I find I don’t aim it very well usually
long escarp
I mean exclusive access isn’t something I ever “go for”
But I’ll take it if it’s offered
long escarp
Trippy shot is decent?
Trippy Shot is decent
I honestly haven’t explored trippy shot enough
Outside of Beowulf or Achilles
last dirge
My favorite trippy shot run in recent memory was with snow burst on Lucifer
Dio special. No blackout sadly.
Snow burst triggers the specials
long escarp
Dio special on Luci? But the base damage is pretty good isn’t it?
last dirge
Fair
I find even stuff like Zeus is good for its proximity mine effect
Lucifer can play that way
It's slower but it's one of the things it can do different
Then like greater inferno even gets good with Poseidon + sea storm
Because its huge base damage and the proximity effect in a big area
Which I think you'd want with the knockback
I think the benefit of Lucifer is that it is slightly more versatile overall than other rails
I've seen Artemis attack work
You just go for the hammers that make it better
long escarp
Hmm
I don’t have a ton of experience with Lucifer ig
I generally just force lightning strike and look for triple bomb with deadly or heartbreak flourish
last dirge
Fair. I like lots of stuff. Like eternal Poseidon attack does fun stuff with autoaim
long escarp
That’s what I did for my Luci 45 (I think)
long escarp
Poseidon attack is funny but not good
long escarp
The super soaker
long escarp
Me too
long escarp
Tempest Strike is probably one of the worst boons in the game tbh
last dirge
Yeah tidal dash kinda invalidates it too
long escarp
Definitely special is better than attack
last dirge
Unless you want both. That can be I guess interesting on like gilgamesh
long escarp
Well also it’s 30% which is pitiful and also knocking enemies away is at best mediocre but often actively hurts you
last dirge
Its painful because you need to push enemies into stuff
Yeah
But with some tier 2s its decent
Razor shoals triggers on knockback?
long escarp
Yeah
long escarp
I do love Poseidon T2s
last dirge
But still tidal dash would do most of the work by itself
bright vine
Ive got zeus artemis on achilles spear is dionesis worth taking?i usually avoid his boons
verbal fjord
I just realized I don't have dionysus' keepsake...
verbal fjord
I don't use dionysus' boons cus idk if there's a good way to use it
bright vine
I like his support boons but not attack ones
long escarp
?
bright vine
How good is curse of drowning? I can take blood frenzy about to walk into hades so probably going to lose a life and have the extra damage
valid dagger
How good is curse of drowning? I can take blood frenzy about to walk into hades ...
Late but good to know, Curse of Drowning is like very close range damage so that’s something to consider, I like Blood Frenzy because it’s Global Damage and also you still get to keep Boiling Blood which is nice for weapons that have high base damage like say Rama for example, it’s a fun boon
Decent take on fists, a bit weird to play
vale imp
it's best on achilles spear with the 150% bonus damage
proper furnace
Best is on BeOwOlf ofc 
valid dagger
surreal laurel
Gotta say my favorite combos gotta be shield + aspect of Zeus + Zeus special + Zeus legendary
long escarp
Yeah that’s a sick combo
Throw in Jolted and it’s even better
Unfortunately double strike doesn’t really do anything for Zeus shield special
long escarp
Nah, because the bolts are too fast so it exceeds the cooldown
The extra bolts still show up but they don’t deal any damage
lucid oar
it basically only works for last hit, or explosive return procs
long escarp
Splitting Bolt is still sick though
surreal laurel
I’ve heard a lot of dislike for Zeus but I think he’s one of my favorites
long escarp
Dislike for Zeus?
Zeus is definitely top 4 gods in the game
In the right place, he’s super strong
Plus his call is always great
surreal laurel
Yeah, him and dio are my top 2
long escarp
Plus Smoldering Air
surreal laurel
The best call imo is artemis
long escarp
Zeus and Aphrodite are my top 2, followed by Athena and Artemis. Those 4 are a full step above the other 4 imo
long escarp
The best call imo is artemis
3rd worst call imo
Artemis call is not very good
So useless for normal rooms
lucid oar
It chunks boss phases and thats about it
lucid oar
Zeus aid has more ways to scale and a partial call can do decent work to bosses
ive had zeus aid do 260 damage strikes
surreal laurel
I usually don’t do call build
lucid oar
(not jolted)
long escarp
Getting an easy 600+ damage from a partially charged Zeus’s Aid is good enough on its own
long escarp
I don’t usually level it or even bother getting one
Well you’re heavily missing out
surreal laurel
But I did have an artemis call that did 500+ damage per arrow, most were crits
long escarp
Imo:
Zeus > Dionysus > Poseidon > Athena >>> Demeter > Artemis > Aphrodite > Ares
long escarp
But I did have an artemis call that did 500+ damage per arrow, most were crits
No shot
500 per arrow??
There’s no way
long escarp
Oh when they crit
I was gonna say, an epic Artemis Aid needs to be lvl 22 to deal 500 per arrow
surreal laurel
Oh
I did have the trinket that gives levels every few rooms but I definitely didn’t get it to level 22
long escarp
Or sorry no Herioc would be 22. Epic would be 23
But for them to crit for 500+ isn’t too hard
Still
Bad outside bosses, and even against bosses it’s better to have Dionysus or Zeus
I’d also prefer Poseidon for i-frames
Or even Athena depending on the build
surreal laurel
I think Poseidon lasts too long
long escarp
?
surreal laurel
Like, you can’t do anything except run into them once
long escarp
How does it “last too long” if you have full invincibility for the whole thing?
proper furnace
You can hit them twixe in 1 lesser call
lucid oar
rip current helps with that
long escarp
Also, are you full charging it? Because if so, that’s the issue
surreal laurel
No
long escarp
Don’t charge full calls for anything except Artemis or Aphrodite
surreal laurel
I just think it’s an awkward call
long escarp
?
Again, how does it “last too long” if you have full invincibility for the whole thing?
Unless you’re speedrunning
surreal laurel
I guess that was poor wording, I just think it’s not very fun
long escarp
Dealing 700 damage (at lvl 1 epic) with a lesser call against a boss + also gaining invincibility isn’t fun? Hmm
I guess to each their own
lucid oar
surfs up
long escarp
Or dealing more like 1400 damage in a normal room since you can hit a ton of enemies at once
surreal laurel
I haven’t used it that much I guess, I don’t generally like Poseidon
strange lark
why
lucid oar
Poseidon is a ton of fun
proper furnace
Poseidon aid + rip current is like the most fun call
surreal laurel
Hitting enemies away seems counterintuitive to doing damage
surreal laurel
Oh yeah I know that
long escarp
His dash is absurd though
surreal laurel
Yeah dash is fine
long escarp
His cast is also great
surreal laurel
I think there’s better dashes
long escarp
His call is also great
Not really
Not for damage at least
Nothing else even comes close in terms of damage
Literally like it’s not close
surreal laurel
It just seems like you gotta take just posiedon to get something workable
surreal laurel
I’ll have to try a few posiedon runs ig
long escarp
Don’t do “Poseidon runs”
cunning urchin
You just need Tidal Dash + poms on it and maybe 1-2 tier 2 boons from him for extra damage cause why not.
long escarp
Just put tidal dash on Rail
long escarp
You just need Tidal Dash + poms on it and maybe 1-2 tier 2 boons from him for ex...
Exactly
surreal laurel
Don’t do “Poseidon runs”
Runs where I don’t avoid posiedon
surreal laurel
Ok I will do so
strange lark
just put it on everything
long escarp
Epic lvl 3 tidal dash does 85 damage.
surreal laurel
Also I don’t get the hype for Aphrodite , yeah it’s a high damage multiplier but it’s boring
long escarp
???
surreal laurel
Epic lvl 3 tidal dash does 85 damage.
Oh I see
lucid oar
i like not dying
strange lark
dont say that while nyaanyaa is here
long escarp
Biggest number + good status effect
cunning urchin
Also I don’t get the hype for Aphrodite , yeah it’s a high damage multiplier but...
valid dagger
more crocodile food
long escarp
Also I don’t get the hype for Aphrodite , yeah it’s a high damage multiplier but...
Aphrodite is literally the best option for attack/special boons for a great many weapons, and second place (Artemis) is pretty far behind most of the time. And then 3rd place is nowhere remotely close
lucid oar
ayo dont forget dionysus
surreal laurel
Hey
long escarp
It’s true
lucid oar
i like epic boons ok
long escarp
i like epic boons ok
Exclusive Access?
long escarp
Poison is good
Yeah but it’s just worse than lightning 9 times out of 10 tbh
lucid oar
apparently zeus attack now sucks on achilles
strange lark
what
long escarp
Yeah but Dionysus isn’t better
long escarp
He just said he only wanted Artemis
I thought
I don’t think he meant he’d prefer Dionysus
surreal laurel
I like support fire a lot
long escarp
Why
surreal laurel
It’s fun
lucid oar
Dio attack is fun
surreal laurel
Especially with rail or aspect of Zeus, or fists, it’s just a little free extra damage
lucid oar
i bet i have a quicker zag spear run with dio attack than you pancake
valid dagger
I mean we always knew Zeus attack needs a ton of Global damage to scale
long escarp
Depends. Does it count as 0:00:00 if I’ve never done a Dio attack zag spear run?
lucid oar
dammit youre 7m20s quicker than me
valid dagger
Nothing new
long escarp
Lmao
strange lark
imagine not using dio attack on zag spear
long escarp
Dio is still worse Zeus tbh
unreal tree
imagine not using dio attack on zag spear
Gang
tight cobalt
Hmm yeah, after thinking it over, I’d agree. Dio has a few more duo boons that let it scale, but Zeus has Sea Storm AND better Tier 2 boons
tight cobalt
imagine not using dio attack on zag spear
Imagine using Zag Spear
unreal tree
Seastorm is too annoying to get to be meaningful
It was way more viable when tidal dash was a prerequisite
unreal tree
Dio's only good t2 is bad influence so thats probably true
long escarp
Plus Zeus legendary
Dio pretty much only beats out Zeus when you don’t reliably have access to jolted
severe vigil
I'm on a roll my dudes
3 clears in a row
I made a merciful end zeus aspect run
it might be my favourite combo
long escarp
ME or specifically ME Zeus
long escarp
Hmm
I don’t love ME Zeus. I tried it out yesterday
It’s definitely strong once you get everything together
severe vigil
I might try Zeus aspect with zeus boons
severe vigil
But before you get ME it’s so bad
I got early asphodel ME
long escarp
Oh nice
long escarp
Yeah that’s the way to do it
severe vigil
or I don't remember exactly and I might have luckily gotten ME in tartarus by rolling doors
long escarp
Rolling doors?
severe vigil
Demeter popped in twice trying to ruin the party
long escarp
I would definitely suggest fated persuasion
severe vigil
I am currently working towards maxing both out
long escarp
Imo authority is never really worth using
Maybe there are some niche situations idk
I still haven’t bothered to max authority on my new file
I’d rather spend darkness for the infinite theme than authority lmao
severe vigil
I'll leave it at level 3 then
And taking the other one from now on
I put diamonds into the contractor upgrade that gives hp for darkness rooms and the one that gives you a free reroll when you get keys
Is it a good order to do it in?
severe vigil
Ill keep in mind
last dirge
I think meus can work if you get Impending doom
Honestly dm might be worth it on zeus
Either or and an epic ares flourish and it should work
Cant you also do it the other way? Divine flourish?
Then like the double attack hammer, for eventual ME
long escarp
Cant you also do it the other way? Divine flourish?
Nah that’s worse for sure
last dirge
Probably yeah
I think with just one of the doom t2s your dooms should meet breakpoints easier
And it all requires an epic doom boon, because of how they scale.
Then like, Zeus shield on hit dmg shreds armor off, doom does hp dmg
I like Demeter too. Takes set up though.
Arctic blast can do decent damage
I've even done Demeter Rama special runs. It's also pretty bad without all the parts.
With them all it's pretty good
You want arctic blast and killing freeze, the legendary, relentless volley or you need 3 volleys to proc arctic blast.
Rama special is so good at curse application, so it just works
Single target/small area damage from blast, crowd control from chill and ricochet, crowd damage from killing freeze
Expiated by her legendary
Usually I'll just start off by using attack too. Otherwise it's just too slow.
Sadly it doesnt work with charm well.
It does pathetic damage and charm doesnt proc enough, or long enough
The only viable charm build is smair aphro call pommed to like 10+
cunning urchin
The only viable charm build is smair aphro call pommed to like 10+
Should maybe make a distinction between "doesn't work for me" and "not viable".
long escarp
charm sucks
polar python
Charm is a novelty almost all the time. Theseus thinks otherwise though!
tight cobalt
Hear me out, Demeter special on the rail + Killing Freeze + Hazard Bomb + Targeting System = Za Warudo?
Or Lucifer with the expanded radius?
verbal fjord
idk much about demeters boons, but i mean, if ya wanna try it, go for it, ig
long escarp
Demeter special on rail is never optimal
Oh wait is that a reference I don’t get? Probably
verbal fjord
"Is ThAt A jOjO's ReFeReNcE?!?"
last dirge
Freeze ray is solid
Also need tier 2s. Either lean into Eternal or get like Flash Fire or whatever else
Lucifer beam dmg ramps and is rapid so Demeter ends up working okay
It's like Demeter on fists attack
Zeus is better but it works well with some work
What it lacks is aoe damage
verbal fjord
what would yall say is the worst set of boons? like, I mean the god with the worst all around boons for the most part?
strange lark
what would yall say is the worst set of boons? like, I mean the god with the wor...
Demeter
last dirge
A bad god generally to start with is Poseidon unless you have a specific plan in mind
Because like his attack is just trash and you might not want his special
verbal fjord
I haven't messed with Demeter much, but i'm personally not a fan of Dionysus
last dirge
So youd need a plan. Sea storm
Dionysus is amazing
He has defensive stuff
Some of the best
He has poison
strange lark
His defensive stuff is meh
verbal fjord
the one that makes fountains a full restore is great
last dirge
He has some bad influence
strange lark
Doesn't do much tbh
verbal fjord
pretty decent if ya aren't good at certain bosses
last dirge
It's also just global dmg
strange lark
Premium vintage is good
last dirge
If you get it early, its great
strange lark
Fountain one is meh
last dirge
The healing is just icing
verbal fjord
which one is premium vintage?
strange lark
Damage isn't that good
last dirge
Bonus hp on nectar pickup
strange lark
Healing is nice tho
strange lark
Unless lc4
last dirge
He also has very good duos usually
verbal fjord
cus its also a free nectar,
last dirge
The ones that interact with hangover are all pretty good
Some are better to prioritize like curse of nausea
Avoid peer pressure. Try out bad influence.
On like chaos shield
Do you have Rama yet? I love bad influence on it.
verbal fjord
what's Rama...?
last dirge
Rama is the hidden bow aspect
verbal fjord
Im RELETIVELY new to this
last dirge
Once you invest enough in aspects you will unlock hidden aspects
They play differently
verbal fjord
guan yu is the first one, right?
last dirge
Yeah
It triggers the other ones
You need it first
Dont use it until you max it though
verbal fjord
do i have to put in 5 titan bloods on just the spear?
last dirge
I think it's all aspects or like 4
verbal fjord
ik thats a req for yhe hiddens
last dirge
Checks pins in #h1-for-new-players
verbal fjord
I think i just need to wait for the fates perms
last dirge
You need to put some blood in multiple aspects
proper furnace
last dirge
Ah thanks
Rama has a very fast but weak special that is focus fired and ricochet off enemies into other enemies
It is very good for applying status curses
Its attack is slow and wide
The special applies a status that makes all enemies take damage when one takes damage
verbal fjord
Its attack is slow and wide
Just like me, I like it
last dirge
So you apply special statuses, charge up one shot and hopefully kill them all in one shot
That usually requires a perfect shot which takes some work
verbal fjord
Perfect as in the glowy shot?
last dirge
But it does a lot of damage
Yeah
Though you dont need them always if you have double shot
Double shot is super super good on Rama
verbal fjord
I got 2 questions regarding keepsakes, but I feel like one would be a question for the story chat
last dirge
That's where you use Dionysus really well. Put it on special
Just post both ig
You will apply 5 hangover to multiple enemies super fast
verbal fjord
ok, so, one of my fated sidequests is that I equip every keepsake once
does it count as equipping it if i die with it on?
verbal fjord
cus I mostly use either the gods ones, or Skelly/Cerberus'
last dirge
Yeah
You can just do that
Equip them then die. Should work. Check before and after to make sure.
verbal fjord
and my other one, ||does Persephone have a keepsake, or does Hades?|| and if it is the latter, ||how do I unlock the second nectar gift for him?||
sterile fiber
you can equip in the courtyard, quit out of the cabinet, then re-equip another one
no need to start a run
sterile fiber
and my other one, ||does Persephone have a keepsake, or does Hades?|| and if it ...
both have a keepsake, but you need to progress the story to get them (ie win more runs)
verbal fjord
I wasn't sure if they were, I take spoilers seriously if I'm the one talking about them
last dirge
Only the ones you can get before finishing the game
long escarp
and my other one, ||does Persephone have a keepsake, or does Hades?|| and if it ...
Both
verbal fjord
oh ok
last dirge
Those 2 were added later
verbal fjord
dlc/update?
last dirge
Update
No dlc. Hades was released kinda sequentially
The original final boss was the Hydra
verbal fjord
oh, wow
last dirge
And Theseus was the main character
last dirge
Yeah can't swear here
fallen spoke
is there any poseidon cast build or just poseidon
lucid oar
Any lodging cast works quite well
long escarp
Do you mean Flood Shot or Poseidon Sword?
long escarp
Flood Shot isn’t generally something I build around, despite the fact that it has two duos dedicated to it
It’s good for room clear for aspects that lack AOE
fallen spoke
any juqt poseidon related attack / special boon builds
forest crow
anyone got any tips to make the shield better? right now the shield on no heat is harder for me than spear on 5 :’)
fallen spoke
what shield
long escarp
Zeus and Beo shield are both incredible
fallen spoke
i like zeus + many zeus boons mostly special related
forest crow
I’m not very good so I panic smash sometimes which is not good for zeus 😅
long escarp
But my biggest piece of advice is to spam dashstrike -> bull rush
Bull rush is busted
fallen spoke
yep dont bull rush into lava happened alot with me lol
long escarp
…how?
forest crow
happened to me a lot too lol
if you don’t look where the enemy is; sometimes they’re right on the edge of lava
long escarp
Just don’t bull rush into lava
You can hold the button and charge it, and change your direction when you do that
fallen spoke
i know but i sometime underastemate the range or panic rush
forest crow
mood
long escarp
But the range is also indicated on the ground
forest crow
it’s not that bad, most times I can sprint out of it in time
sometimes you take a bit of damage but usually not world ending
long escarp
And you are blocking the entire time so there’s no rush
forest crow
✨panic✨
fallen spoke
stop i was new to the game then jeez
forest crow
it happens to me a lot when I use the time limit heat
long escarp
TD3 gaming
worn solar
if you arent good with zeus and dont have beo unlocked you can just stick zeus boons on one of the other shield specials
kinda want explosive return a lot tho
long escarp
But that’s so slow and painful
worn solar
not really slow
long escarp
15 base damage
worn solar
thats why you have zeus
long escarp
Still slow
Definitely much much slower than actually attacking
Plus that doesn’t really teach you to play shield
It just teaches you to spam special from far away for minutes on end for every boss
worn solar
fallen spoke
It just teaches you to spam special from far away for minutes on end for every b...
good training for legendary spear
long escarp
And pierces
worn solar
Still slow
so
worn solar
okay then
verbal fjord
What's a good build for the sword? I'm beating Hades with each weapon vanilla before I tackle the heat gauge
long escarp
My favorite sword build is Phalanx Shot Poseidon Sword because I don’t have to play sword
worn solar
usually i go for merciful end or smouldering air
heartrend for nemesis
though duo builds can be difficult to get without a complete mirror
but generally aphro/doom/dio are pretty good on attack
long escarp
I go for drunken strike on zag sword, heart rend or drunken strike on nemesis, phalanx shot on Poseidon, and heartbreak strike on Arthur
worn solar
https://imgur.com/Gwa6dBM
cough
lucid oar
This build requires 2 hammers, explosive return and dashing flight
long escarp
Ohh lmao
lucid oar
The rest of the build isnt even that impressive
lucid oar
No hyper delivery, jolted, double strike
long escarp
But anyway that’s not shield special being good, that’s a weird interaction between two hammers, one of which is terrible outside of that combo
long escarp
Dashing + Explosive
worn solar
https://imgur.com/Gwa6dBM
well this is just zeus boons being good
verbal fjord
No I mean which one is terrible without that combo?
long escarp
Dashing Flight
Because shield special is incredibly bad
So giving it some extra damage doesn’t change the fact that it’s incredibly bad
worn solar
dashing flight is still good for spamming zeus
long escarp
Despite having seen that fast time with it, I still have trouble believing that’s a real thing idk why
worn solar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/909262132074410014/unknown.png faster special helps you like not die
lucid oar
Cracked build
lucid oar
I think double strike matters more for Zeus special builds
worn solar
also fated authority gaming
lucid oar
Still, epic jolted even at level 1 is nothing to frown at
It’s not like epic tidal dash which kinda sucks at level 1
long escarp
Double strike is bugged with Thunder flourish
lucid oar
It certainly is
long escarp
If I get CShot on Chaos shield, I pretty much stop using special
last dirge
I like chaos shield special tbh. I just lean on bad influence
Even good for just hangover damage
Another fun shield special build is Beo special
Like all hidden aspects it has generally higher base damage and an altered moveset. Its slower but hits harder. Get Charged Flight and Dread Flight. Get like Artemis special + mark. Its sluggish but it can chain 1000 damage crits.
Dread Flight is normally bad, but if you are just using your special, I think it's okay.
I guess then you would want Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery and just dash around while the shield ricochets
Maybe passion dash for Heart Rend? This is a 1/1000 run now though.
potent pier
on Beo what would be bettr?
Aphrodite Strike, Artemis Flare, Heart Rend, 20% uptime DR
Artemis Strike, Aphrodite Flare, Heart Rend, 20% uptime DR
Athena Strike, Aphrodite Flare, Heart Rend, 60% uptime Deadly Reversal
turbid needle
mirage shot is the duo you want to look for on beo tbh
potent pier
won't use it for personal reasons
valid dagger
Heartrend is overrated
Aphrodite Flare with Snow Burst would be better than shooting for DR or Heartrend honestly especially if you dont have a reliable way to deflect, and shooting for DR is harder because you have to take multiple boons which can mess up your poms
cunning urchin
Where are you getting those 20% and 60% uptime numbers from?
valid dagger
turbid needle
good question
sterile fiber
hades but FO also makes the music and voice lines faster
potent pier
Where are you getting those 20% and 60% uptime numbers from? <:thanthink:6692460...
I checked 2 vods of entire runs of mine using those and that is the approximation
long escarp
on Beo what would be bettr?
Aphrodite Strike, Artemis Flare, Heart Rend, 20% up...
I never go for heart rend on Beo
Mirage is by far the best boon you can get for literally any Beo build
And the only casts really worth using are flood flare (for early mirage, good for speedruns), passion flare (for best damage and weak, good for high heat), or trippy flare (best damage but needs chaos bloodstones, probably not optimal but extremely fun and can probably beat the others if you get crazy lucky)
long escarp
I checked 2 vods of entire runs of mine using those and that is the approximatio...
Also I really don’t understand what this means
If you really refuse to play with Mirage (which I don’t understand but whatever), then 100% the best build (imo at least) you can go for is Passion Flare + Snow Burst with Privileged Status.
long escarp
Honestly, here’s my opinion on every flare:
Thunder: Definitely not good, but is interesting especially with the bugged double strike. It’s also funny that cast damage and mirage shot literally do not affect it at all since it technically isn’t a cast and the cast itself does 0 damage and has no AOE lmao
Flood: Great for speedruns, damage is lower but made up for by early mirage and a braid or chaos shot. Falls off at high heat due to increased enemies with BP buffs requiring more damage than it offers
Phalanx Flare: Literally just Passion Flare but with a tiny AOE and a worse effect. Not the worst thing, but also never worth going for intentionally because passion is much better in literally every way except damage where they’re even.
Slicing Flare: So so bad. Like it makes me sad how bad it is. But it’s definitely a unique challenge I guess. Also due to a bug (probably), Vicious Cycle does literally nothing with this boon.
Passion Flare: Great damage, great scaling, great status effect, great AOE. Imo the best cast in a vacuum and also best for heat.
Hunter Flare: Idk just use passion flare lol, Hunter flare is just passion with less AOE and less damage and with no weak. No real point.
Trippy Flare: The cornerstone of my favorite casual build in the game. Due to the bugged pom scaling, the damage can become so stupidly absurd. Very fun, but not optimal due to how inconsistent it is.
Icy Flare: Insanely bad scaling for no reason. Never use. Lmao
potent pier
also I need help interpreting this chart from the wiki since I am unsue if I understand it correctly
long escarp
Also, why do you refuse to use mirage shot for Beo? That’s like refusing to use flurry jab for Achilles or refusing to use double edge for sword
valid dagger
Whats giving you trouble with this one
potent pier
if I use Beo, all my core boons are filled out, and out of those only one I jave from artemis is Hunter's Flare, am I guaranteed to have as options: A swap, support fire and pressure points?
valid dagger
Well Hunter’s Mark
long escarp
Idk I see no reason to literally ever use Hunter flare so I have no need to know this
valid dagger
So it’s not guaranteed
potent pier
Well Hunter’s Mark
I don't have any requirements met if I understand it corrwctly
long escarp
Hunter Flare sucks
It’s not even particularly interesting like Thunder and Slicing are
potent pier
I don't have any requirements met if I understand it corrwctly
wait would I get more swap options on next arteboon if I get support fire there?
long escarp
You can’t get more than 1 swap offered
lucid oar
You can
valid dagger
I don't have any requirements met if I understand it corrwctly
Uhh I thought Hunter’s Flare would be a requirement for Mark, well that’s odd, I don’t have a way to test that rn.. Also that’s a quite specific scenario lol
lucid oar
Either way, outside of a challenge run there’s no point to using hunter flare over flood flare
long escarp
If you want to know more about flare damage scaling, you can see the spreadsheet I linked above
potent pier
thanks
long escarp
And why do you refuse to use Mirage?
sterile fiber
roll again 
potent pier
I don't like using (abusing I guess?) that if wasn't bugged wouldn't be as strong, I'd use it any day if it was actually only 30% or if gave a 100% dmg increase in other scenarios too
long escarp
I feel like if a bug is in the game you should feel free to use it
It’s fun
It’s a singleplayer game
lucid oar
I don’t think it’s abusing at this point, game devs know about it yet have chosen to not fix it
long escarp
Get out there and deal 2K per cast
unreal tree
Lol we used trippy flare beo for like a year without knowing about the pom bug
Does that mean we cheated
No
long escarp
It’s nothing close to gamebreaking
potent pier
I guess I'll try it someday but only after I get my first 32+h run
unreal tree
I love how bright and tounis just looked at the beo numbers and went "this is wrong"
"alright then" and went on as usual
valid dagger
polar python
If they fixed it now it'd be a right pain for speedrunners.
long escarp
I love how bright and tounis just looked at the beo numbers and went "this is wr...
That’s so funny
unreal tree
long escarp
If they fixed it now it'd be a right pain for speedrunners.
And would be unnecessary because it’s not like the bug is hurting the game
unreal tree
I will keep posting this
lucid oar
I don’t think it would even change much
People would just use passion flare and play like hera
proper furnace
Imagine they fixed clockets lol
unreal tree
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779451865399368/881898296539480164/c...
The fricking pre nerf numbers
Jesus christ
long escarp
Imagine they fixed clockets lol
Would be tragic
long escarp
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779451865399368/881898296539480164/c...
My god
long escarp
Its only a 30% additive damage decrease
Would be less fun
lucid oar
If hestia clockets works, then eris non bugged clockets would still be better
potent pier
I will keep posting this
how do I interpret this?
unreal tree
This graph is a monstrosity
unreal tree
how do I interpret this?
Bottom is what the game tells you
As in how much the tooltip says
Green is pre nerf dio beo actual damage
Trippy flare had basically been bugged all along
long escarp
That’s definitely my favorite bug in the game
unreal tree
So that before the nerf a lv5-6 cast would do 500+ damage
Even post nerf its absolutely insane
unreal tree
I still say that the bug is so specific to beo is so fun
Trippy flare hera
long escarp
Yep
potent pier
whats the difference in C/R/E?
unreal tree
Does not have the bug
unreal tree
whats the difference in C/R/E?
Rarity
potent pier
ahh
valid dagger
Where heroic
potent pier
comm rar epc
unreal tree
Doesn't affect much
long escarp
Where heroic
Nobody care
potent pier
Where heroic
it's a myth, they don't exist
proper furnace
it's a myth, they don't exist
Just like fully loaded on cast builds
lucid oar
Who Tf takes Demeter or ambrosia in a dio beo run
unreal tree
long escarp
Heroic Passion Flare is generally worse than Epic Passion Flare LMAO
potent pier
Just like fully loaded on cast builds
indeed
unreal tree
How dio beo compares to tooltip+other flares(flood and passion)
proper furnace
Heroic Passion Flare is generally worse than Epic Passion Flare LMAO
Smol cast goes sad
unreal tree
Smol cast goes sad
It fixes itself tho
long escarp
How
potent pier
Heroic Passion Flare is generally worse than Epic Passion Flare LMAO
why's that?
lucid oar
I still think icy flare should have inherent snow burst
long escarp
why's that?
unreal tree
Once crop upgrades the cast it goes back to normal
long escarp
Once crop upgrades the cast it goes back to normal
It does??
unreal tree
I have a 55 beo that got crop in ely and that smol cast didnt last until dad
long escarp
Tf
proper furnace
Beo moment
valid dagger
Upgrading rarity = fix
unreal tree
Idk man
valid dagger
So picking crop makes it tiny for a few rooms then it becomes normal
Once it goes rare
proper furnace
So a replace into pass flare eould have the bug or nah?
long escarp
Once it goes rare
100% of the time?
lucid oar
Oh I actually didn’t know about the Pom slice one
valid dagger
I think so, i don’t pick crop enough on beo to know that I want snow burst
lucid oar
Seems useless in practice rofl
potent pier
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12CDUZVhVIqKtDbQYPS1-4nZEm4pVQm4QG8BxHkquWDQ/...
wait I think all my passion flare runs where affected then 💀
long escarp
I could have sworn that I’ve had my cast broken and not fixed by crop
long escarp
Seems useless in practice rofl
Gives you some scuffed victory screens though
90% common lvl 3 heartbreak strike
180 damage lvl 3 epic curse of pain
lucid oar
Shattered shack
long escarp
I check my pom scaling sheet regularly
lucid oar
340 damage level 3 trippy flare
long escarp
Lmao
proper furnace
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12CDUZVhVIqKtDbQYPS1-4nZEm4pVQm4QG8BxHkquWDQ/...
Wait thunder flare backstab?
long escarp
Apparently
valid dagger
Why not
long escarp
Ask CGull
valid dagger
Cgull explained it a bit yea
It just can backstab and from testing it’s not consistent so no, go back to fiery presence
long escarp
Yep
valid dagger
Imagine thunder flare backstab build
Exposed with some epic Chaos ambush
Absolute memery
long escarp
Black shawl though 🧠
proper furnace
Also i love the "shared suffering wont apply to Lernie sometimes"
long escarp
Imagine thunder flare backstab build
If only it was remotely consistent lol
long escarp
Also i love the "shared suffering wont apply to Lernie sometimes"
Yep lmao I don’t know of any pattern so far
valid dagger
If only it was remotely consistent lol
Yea that would’ve been something to play with lol
fallen spoke
can i get a good zag sword build
fallen spoke
ok
long escarp
Or do drunken sword
fallen spoke
how do the boons go
long escarp
For drunken sword?
fallen spoke
yes
long escarp
Just get drunken strike
And maybe look for low tol from heartbreak flourish or curse of nausea from curse of pain/vengeance
fallen spoke
ok
long escarp
ME is definitely better, it just needs more to get going
Oh, and Bad Influence is great
and hyper + delivery
Rush delivery is the best possible boon for any hangover build tbh
Makes an insane difference
Especially with rarity
lost whale
How do you record the seed of your current run? This one's RNG was perfect and I'd like to be able to do it again in the future
lucid oar
If you’ve already completed the run then there’s not really any practical way to do this unfortunately
tight cobalt
Man bomb arrows are fuuuuun
vale imp
did anyone get a patch today? some boon values got changed
the one i noticed was that epic static discharge used to give 117 damage, now it's 109
unreal tree
the one i noticed was that epic static discharge used to give 117 damage, now it...
Its normal variance
Same with some % boons
Like epic Aphrodite attack can go from 89-100
shell sleet
but it doesn't affect common boons right
unreal tree
Yes
proven osprey
turbid needle
dw it also took me forever to notice that
valid dagger
Yea same
quartz fractal
do things that give an attack bonus like thananos butterfly or chaos boons effect ares doom damage
Or the weapon itself
valid dagger
do things that give an attack bonus like thananos butterfly or chaos boons effec...
Thanatos Butterfly isn't attack damage it's Global Damage so it affects Doom yes, Chaos however does not, it only applies to the base damage of the weapon