h1-builds-and-combat

[steel swan]

is there any sort of internal cooldown to thunder flourish in chiron special?

[proper furnace]

yup

0.2 secs iirc

but thats to lightning as a whole, not only chiron

[clever barn]

the problem is continusly applying weak while your attack doesn't infilict it, if you have aphro dash it's very interesting thou

[steel swan]

i figured so

[bronze marten]

Special?

cluster bomb it’s raining pink yeehaw

[proper furnace]

special/dash is easy weak

if you take cast, empty inside has an use

[clever barn]

yeah fair, you use the special pretty often

[proper furnace]

also ares on special is kinda of a waste to your special

[clever barn]

oh yeah def

pink special is big hits

with the rocket is * chef's kiss *

[proper furnace]

and lastly i dont like curse of longing too much so opening it as a possible duo is eh

[bronze marten]

I think you could take rifts just to fill the slot and be eligible for dio ares legendary

Also would avoid curse of longing if you don’t have a source of doom damage

[clever barn]

dio ares only works with ares attack, special and curse

[bronze marten]

oh

notes

[clever barn]

yep

[bronze marten]

Damn

doom kinda bad lol

oh well

[clever barn]

yeah doom kinda bad

unless you got merciful end

[proper furnace]

dire misfortune for big numbers is fun

[clever barn]

what is it

the late doom?

but bigger

[proper furnace]

thats impending doom

[steel swan]

the one that stacks doom damage as you keep applying

[clever barn]

oh yeah

that one with chiron is pretty nice

[proper furnace]

*adds extra damage if it stacked doom the damage would be ridiculous

[steel swan]

oh yeah lol

[long escarp]

I don’t like Dire Misfortune

I just feel like it does very little in my ME builds (which is kinda the only time I use Doom)

[proper furnace]

i mean yeah is not gonna do something when you insta trigger doom

[long escarp]

But does it really do anything in most situations?

If your weapon is applying doom fast enough for DM to make a difference, then that weapon shouldn’t be using doom

[proper furnace]

not really but its fun so idc
sometimes you get happy by seeing a big doom and thats enough

[long escarp]

I guess that’s fair

But that’s why I like Impending Doom

Since it actually give you big doom

[sharp sinew]

What’s everyone fastest time

I got 11:13 just now and I feel like I can’t beat that time ever

[clever barn]

i have 11.17 but i can def improve it

[lucid oar]

6:53 with mods, 7:32 with no mods

[clever barn]

but i gotta learn hestia button mashing better

[strange lark]

7:24

[proper furnace]

8:12 iirc

[cunning urchin]

Dire Misfortune is good before you get ME. Impending Doom is good after you get ME.

[long escarp]

That’s true

[cunning urchin]

But Doom can be very good in builds that aren't ME, and that don't start with Lady Athena or Lord Ares.

Like how Curse of Longing can be a really good pick if you're starting with the .

If you're a heretic and start with the Blood-Filled Vial, you're probably going for ME.

But if you're starting with the and you see Lord Ares, picking up Curse of Longing and Dire Misfortune can be really good.

[clever barn]

curse of longing chiron bow

[long escarp]

Can it?

[cunning urchin]

Absolutely.

[long escarp]

I feel like CoL is pretty weak

But I could be wrong

[cunning urchin]

You are.

[long escarp]

Lol fair enough

[cunning urchin]

The only "problem" with Curse of Longing is that Merciful End exists.

[lucid oar]

Swap the secondary effects of ME and CoL

Give CoL 40 damage and ME the worse successive hits

[sharp sinew]

What weapon do y’all speedrun with. Just hit 11:13 with Eris rail

I can’t get past 12:30 with any other weapon aspect or weapon lol

[nimble gulch]

🤣 my fastest run has been 32 minutes with choase chield

[strange lark]

i use beowulf

[sharp sinew]

lol

[nimble gulch]

🤔 The only time I actually tried to speed run a game, it took me 188 hours

[sharp sinew]

That long?!

[nimble gulch]

I'm probebly not the go to guy for speed runs

[sharp sinew]

How many runs

Did it take you to beat the game

[lucid oar]

Eris is probably the easiest to get a sub 10 on

[nimble gulch]

A game, not hades

in hades my record is 32 minutes

[sharp sinew]

No like how many times did you die

[nimble gulch]

My heat 32 run was 49 minutes

[sharp sinew]

Before you beat hades

What heat was 32 minutes

[nimble gulch]

I think 2?

[nimble gulch]

Let me check

[sharp sinew]

I got 14:20 with the sword and 12;30 with every other weapon besides my 11:13 with eris rail

[nimble gulch]

Sorry... my fastest run was with twin fists

33 minutes on heat 23

[lucid oar]

If you want you could post the victory screen so I can see if there's anything that you could try and improve, like the build mirror and pact

Or if it's already in #h1-victory-boasting I'll find it

[proper furnace]

my pb is with achilles spear but i dont even play it that much

[solar dawn]

Mines with Beowulf, best aspect

[strange lark]

no beowulf bad

[nimble gulch]

I was also wrong about that. my first victory was on my 28th attempt

[sharp sinew]

Speedrun with beo isn’t that good imo

It’s pretty slow and you gotta run over to get your casts

[lucid oar]

It's the world record holder in every category

[strange lark]

[lucid oar]

Literally

[strange lark]

yeah

it has the world record

[nimble gulch]

so fastest was twin fists, in 33 minutes and heat 23 and first victory was on 28th time

[lucid oar]

Apart from stuff like loyalty card

[sharp sinew]

I saw a 3 minute modded game

With nemesis

It was pretty funny

[lucid oar]

Yeah the Beowulf routed WR is 2:58

[nimble gulch]

Hades has mods?

[lucid oar]

Madness

[sharp sinew]

Pc

I take it that the beo uses Poseidon cast

[nimble gulch]

I mean... yeah.. obviously PC. I just didn't know it was a thing

[lucid oar]

Nemesis hasn't gone quicker than 3:50 iirc

https://youtu.be/W1turFVZdag

Here's the WR

(routed)

And yeah it uses Poseidon flare

[sharp sinew]

Oh I’ve seen that video

I tried doing that and got like 12:25 or 12:30

[lucid oar]

Did you get mirage shot?

Its very important

[sharp sinew]

No I didn’t even think about that working on beo

[strange lark]

its broken on beo

[sharp sinew]

What weapon do you speedrun with

I love hidden bow as well

It’s pretty fun

Sword isn’t my favorite and the spear is good but doesn’t do enough damage for me trying to use zag. Shield is fun but I don’t try to speedrun with it. The other 3 are good for speedrunning in mommy experience

[acoustic vale]

Mommy experience

[clever barn]

for some reason mirage shot on beo makes the second shot with the same power as the first, so it basically doubles your damage

[clever barn]

this is mindblowing btw

[sharp sinew]

This man just two shot hades and Theseus/Minotaur

[solar dawn]

Just Beowulf things

[sharp sinew]

😂

I mean seeded 6x % more cast damage with 6 casts does that to a fellow

[haughty lance]

best build for achilles spear

[shy solstice]

The 10% cast damage from bouldy

[lucid oar]

Chefs kiss

[lucid oar]

Flurry jab, tidal dash and either lightning strike with jolted, or deadly strike with hunters mark. A cast is always good to have as well

[pliant hearth]

Okay so, I understand that some builds just without the rarity on them definitely will not work. So I need some bills that are good without the rarity like the shield Doom combo. The only thing that you really need for those are pomegranates. I just really need to start beating Hades, because I have only been able to beat him once with that combo and no other combo worked

[clever barn]

rarity actually doesn't matter that much tbh

[pliant hearth]

Then hunting blades was really really weak

[clever barn]

hunting blades to be really good alone has to have ares legendary and at least 1 cast from chaos

i did my first em4 with hunting blades

[clever barn]

btw to beat hades at 0 heat you don't need any special combo, just some practice

generally the shield is very nice

try that with divine dash and something that boosts your attack

like artemis or aprhodite

or even athena

for the special ares works really well, but in basic shield you don't use it much

[proper furnace]

casts wants more poms than the rarity too, as a matter

[clever barn]

true cuz cast is one of the few things that with poms gets a flat damage increase

which is great

[turbid needle]

achilles suggestions? i literally dont use spear at all 💀

[lucid oar]

Flurry jab, tidal dash and either lightning strike with jolted, or deadly strike with hunters mark. A cast is always good to have as well

[turbid needle]

alright then

is flurry jab required?

[proper furnace]

is way faster with it

[solar dawn]

It's also really strong with non-lodging casts like meme beam, hunting blades and trippy shot

[turbid needle]

wait so that means use stygian soul with it right

or wait the other one

forgot what it was

[strange lark]

stygian soul is better if you can get extra casts

[proper furnace]

both work but you can get more with stygian and some extra casts

[turbid needle]

alright well this is gonna be the first time i use hunting blades so 😌

[solar dawn]

Hunting blades is super strong, gl!

[turbid needle]

should i use ares keepsake or artemis keepsake first

[solar dawn]

Ares

Get slicing shot to start

[turbid needle]

alr

then im guessing artemis attack

[proper furnace]

yup

would take special if attack isnt offered anyways, you want the duo

[solar dawn]

I wouldn't reroll for Arti attack though, really any core arti works. hunting blades shreds everything

[turbid needle]

okay then

[proper furnace]

does hunter's dash work?

[pliant hearth]

That's literally what I used to beat him the first time but no other weapon other than the shield with the Doom Ares special worked. Whenever I try to use a different weapon, the build simply just doesn't work

[solar dawn]

It does

[proper furnace]

didnt know

[turbid needle]

keep trying lol

[solar dawn]

Any core boon from Arti (aside from cast obviously) works

[solar dawn]

Had to check too lmao

[long escarp]

Hunting Blades and Crystal Clarity are two of my favorite builds in the game. By using Achilles special before you cast, you get +150% cast damage. It’s super fun, I’d highly suggest it. Even for 32 heat, Hunting Blades is quite good

[proper furnace]

any cast is great with it (tho if it lodges you may want quick reload from hermes)

[turbid needle]

i got zeus for my second god and he gave me special, dash, and lightning reflexes

[long escarp]

If it lodges, you may be better off with Poseidon aspect

Or Hera

[worn solar]

gl getting quick reload tho

[turbid needle]

crush shot hera is fun

[long escarp]

Big agree

Love Crush Shot Hera

[proper furnace]

crush shot hera has been the only bow runs i've done recently

[worn solar]

or was that auto reload..

[proper furnace]

quick reload makes the cast dislodge faster

auto reload was the stygian or the legendary iirc?

[worn solar]

legendary one that makes bloodstones return automatically i think

[proper furnace]

just checked, auto reload is for stygian

the one that makes them regenerate faster

[worn solar]

or maybe its greater recall....

[proper furnace]

thats the legendary

[turbid needle]

i officially suck with spear

got through tisiphone but wasted 3 death defiances

[long escarp]

Wait what? Are you attacking? Because with blade rifts you literally shouldn’t have to even attack. Just dash, special occasionally, and cast when possible

Assuming you don’t have Tight Deadline on

If you suck with spear, don’t play spear, just play Blade Rifts

[proper furnace]

play smoldering air

[turbid needle]

im like somewhat using special while spamming attack and casting somewhat

i have 0 heat on too 💀

[long escarp]

Ok stop spamming attack, that’s not really important with spear

Or with Blade Rifts I mean

[turbid needle]

i guess i did it because im used to doing it with sword and fists

[long escarp]

That’s also a bad strategy with sword. With sword, your only combo should be special-dashstrike-dashstrike

[turbid needle]

well yeah thats what im doing

[long escarp]

Oh. Well then don’t?

[turbid needle]

but its still spamming the attack button technically

[long escarp]

Don’t “spam” the attack button

[turbid needle]

i was doing big damage with hunting blades tho

or ig slicing shot

didnt have artemis yet

[winter thicket]

The only weapons I can’t find a build I like are the fist. Any recommendation?

[long escarp]

Zeus attack or Merciful End

[winter thicket]

I’ve done merciful end. Which aspect?

[lucid oar]

All of them, but Demeter is the best

[long escarp]

And Gilgamesh is the worst

Tbh I like Zag fists more than Talos fists

[winter thicket]

And strongest sword aspect?

I typically use cast build with aphro/art/Poseidon.

[lucid oar]

Nemesis generally

[winter thicket]

I’ll look into it thanks!

Just tough. My play style is more of rail and bow so to get used to the 2 melee ones have been difficult

[long escarp]

Understandable

[sharp sinew]

I just got 10:50.74 with eris rail

God I can’t get any faster

Been grinding for 2 days

[turbid needle]

okay so i think ill get comfortable with achilles over time but since aspect of chaos seemed meh to me any aspect of zeus suggestions?

[lucid oar]

Basically the same build as chaos shield, Zeus special and more zeus

[turbid needle]

alright then, any second god i could go for so i could get a duo

[proper furnace]

aphro and take zeus call for smoldering air maybe

[long escarp]

2 days?

Rookie numbers

[acoustic burrow]

trying to figure out what boon combos well with what weapon so I can start focasing my builds alittle better any short and sweet guide for each weapon and what boons work well with them? or is this more the tell me exactly what you need and I will tell you whats best?
Currently working on clearing my first heat runs to get meta currencys

[sharp sinew]

Well I started playing once I came out to Xbox. And I’m trying to beat my times. It was 12:20 this morning and I hit 10:50 a hour ago

[long escarp]

I mean 2 days in rookie numbers

[acoustic burrow]

I did a good bit of work on the game on pc years ago and started again when it came to xbox

[long escarp]

I’m not trying to make fun of your PB, just to be clear

[acoustic burrow]

just so much nicer to play on controller then pc

[sharp sinew]

Nah I know, games been out for a while now

[long escarp]

Also I was kidding

Just because I know people who grind literally for months for a decent time

Which does not sound fun at all

[sharp sinew]

No kidding

I’m not tryna get a sub 6 or 7 minute game 😂

[long escarp]

Yeah my PB is 7:30

I got incredibly lucky to get that, I totally didn’t earn it lmao

I’m still kinda proud of it though

Also, speedrunning is great practice for TD3

And TD3 is great practice for speedrunning

[acoustic burrow]

PB 7:30 thats crazy

lol my PB is 39mins 😄

[long escarp]

What

[acoustic burrow]

im still clearing my heat 1 runs 😄

[solar dawn]

Congrats! Glad you're enjoying the game

[winter thicket]

Did I see someone say you can’t get duo boons from the 2 god chambers?

[cunning urchin]

Don't know if you saw somebody say that, but that's correct.

On the plus side it means the odds for legendaries or any other non-duo boons are better.

[frigid pewter]

Is flurry slash any good with nemesis aspect

[winter thicket]

Well damn

I was going for merciful end and the room area and Athena

Big ooooooof

I had all pre reqs too

[cunning urchin]

You might still get it later, and you can get other good boons.

[boreal prism]

If you get holy shield for example does that increase your chances of getting bronze skin? Because holy shield is no longer in the pool of possible athena boons?

[hearty gale]

Yo, what are the best hammer upgrades for the gun?

[pliant hearth]

Okay so - people have been telling me here that I should just practice- But I figured out what the problem was. The problem is that I can make it to Hades just fine with specific weapons. But because of the specific builds or the boons that I'm choosing, or whether or not I haven't upgraded them enough- they aren't doing a lot of damage to Hades which leads to him slowly chipping away at my health, while I'm doing the same to him. But he does more damage than I do. So I'm pretty much stuck at the standstill of where I can beat him- I'm just not doing enough damage in time for me to actually kill him before he does me

[boreal prism]

I mean yeah there's the macro and micro of hades

Macro means making a good build ahead of time

And micro means playing skillfully in the moment

Improving either of these will help you win

Like... if you get hit less, you'll be dealing more damage to him than he does to you

But yeah getting a build that destroys bosses would work good too

[neon trout]

@pliant hearth I ran into this issue too. I cleared the game FINALLY and started to work on heat 1, but I couldn’t beat Hades, I kept getting to him over and over and kept losing. I too felt like my dmg was too low. I put the game down for a bit, but one day saw a speed runner on IGN and I got the itch. I noticed a few things: I wasn’t really building good synergies, I wasn’t using the mirror the right way, and I didn’t realize you could stand in the middle of Hades laser attack and take 0 dmg while attacking him.

I found this discord and read a lot of the chat in builds, high heat, and looked at what people were using in their clears. I started watching tons of videos, I really enjoyed Healian and found his “over powered builds” and “builds for beginners” extremely helpful.

Fast forward 2 weeks and I have 65 clears and working on Heat 30. I’ve cleared with all weapons almost all at 10 heat and using my 3 favorite to go for 32.

TLDR: find a weapon you enjoy and are comfortable with, watch videos, use a specific build over and over, and honestly just keep playing! You’ll learn the attack patterns and timing of ads and bosses. You will get there man! Feel free to DM if you need help!

[celest gull]

I had the best god damned build with my adamant eris rail. The Q had 150% dmg with Aphrodite Boon, 300% with Daedalus hammer, 100% dmg after killing an enemy with Ares, +60% dmg boost from my cast being lodged into people

I mean special

needless to say it was fun time

[proper furnace]

Ig this is asked frequently but
Does jury summons affevt amount of enemy x waves/amount of waves or both?

[lunar flare]

Total number of enemies is multiplied by 1.2, it depends on room how the waves work. It usually adds a smaller wave in Styx rooms fwiw, but the non-miniboss rooms still have 3 waves

[proper furnace]

Got it, ty

[long escarp]

With JS3 I’ve definitely seen rooms where a full size wave of enemies spawns intermittently while I’m killing the 3rd and final wave, but it doesn’t wait for me to kill every enemy so it’s not exactly a wave

[proven osprey]

Each room has a point threshold that must be met in order to clear it. Each enemy has its own difficulty rating, meaning they're worth x points (and more for armored). Jury summons increase the aforementioned threshold, therefore it can be a disaster in terms of spawns i.e unarmored witches in Tartarus

[unique crescent]

hey, guys. I was just wondering, what are some good boon combinations for amazing damage? i allways try for ares builds, but i'm not satisfied with the outcome and think i can make something better. Any tips?

[raw blade]

what weapon

[long escarp]

You specifically want Ares builds? Try Merciful End or Hunting Blades

Hunting Blades is best on Achilles spear

ME can work on a lot of aspects, but it’s probably the easiest to make it work on fists. I usually go with Demeter

Also, Haelian has a good video going over a very fun and strong build for each weapon

https://youtu.be/bY42CJs159Q

I don’t 100% agree with everything he says but it’s definitely a good starting point if you want to try out some really strong builds

[blissful cypress]

yooo im horrible at aspect of nemisis and was wondering what a good build for it would be? I assume like artemis for the crits or smth

[lucid oar]

Double edge is very important for crit nemesis

[blissful cypress]

yeah my usual pattern is just dash strikes and special for crit chance because sword auto attacks feel underwhelming

[boreal prism]

Classically you build to heart rend

[solar dawn]

Whats a good chaos shield build? Never used it really and wanna try it

[bronze marten]

Sea storm? Yeet

[solar dawn]

why not, Ill give it a whirl

[lucid oar]

Basically the same build as Zeus shield but worse

Same hammers and everything

[solar dawn]

Both of them it is!

Gonna do sea storm dash and zeus special

would poseidon on attack actually work for it?

since like the bullrush would knock them back and I dont need to fling my mouse around for the special

[bronze marten]

It already has knockback, but sea storm attack on shield is fun for the memes

Same reason why I ran Dionysus Eris - yeet

[solar dawn]

Ill try that next run

[solar dawn]

ty rmac and lando, was ok, definitely carried by epic rd though

[bronze marten]

Whatever works!

[lucid oar]

It's fine, epic RD brings chaos shield up to par with Beowulf, and even then not really

[bronze marten]

I mean it’s a meh aspect, but part of the fun is trying a meme build

My 20 heat zag fists w Artemis attack and Dionysus dash was very satisfying lol

[sharp sinew]

Best cast for bow?

I used Zeus and it was fun but not very good for trying to get a fast time

[lucid oar]

Hera?

[sharp sinew]

Yes

[lucid oar]

Crush shot. Any other bow, the cast doesn't matter

Snow burst is also really good on hera

And poms of course

[worn solar]

artemis can be good if you aim for mirage shot and luck into fully loaded

getting fully loaded can be a bit tough though

[sharp sinew]

Ahh

What’s a good speedrunning build

I’ve tried everything my own way and have gotten 10:51

[solar dawn]

Beowulf, Poseidon cast, Arti attack, get mirage shot

Ez speed

[sharp sinew]

Bruh i suck with beo and I never get mirage

[solar dawn]

You can also do eris with Zeus attack and Poseidon dash

[worn solar]

find a miniboss room with yarn/eurydice nectar and spam them rerolls

[gusty rapids]

gods legacy helps too

[gusty rapids]

miniboss rooms actually have decreased chances for duos and legendaries, but increased chances for rare/epic boons

so for mirage shot, a non miniboss room is ideal

[worn solar]

what

does this mean my whole life is a lie

[sharp sinew]

Best spear throw build for speedrunning. Love the spear but dunno what’s good with it

[cunning urchin]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eAOEli9KqJOVyPD7U-6D1o1yZx1tDMQWLDcMJr8G84E/edit?usp=sharing

[sharp sinew]

Is there a place for all of the weapons for that bc that was super helpful

[cunning urchin]

Not really, no.

[sharp sinew]

Welp thanks for that anyways 😊

I just beat my first 32 heat in 16:09

[cunning urchin]

You might want to look into the Hades Speedrun discord server. A link is pinned in #self-promotion.

[sharp sinew]

Any docs for Demeter fists

[pliant hearth]

So I need immediate help. Pretty much I went for the Zeus build on the gun and I am pretty much at a standstill. I got static discharge and Zeus's aid. I don't have a call yet so it would be helpful but at the same time I feel like I'm going to be shooting a lot more than I will using the call but the call does so much damage. I'm pretty much at the final boss already but I don't know which one to pick or which one will be more beneficial. Both of them will be helpful and both of them could help me complete the run

[raw blade]

call is good

but wait

jolted is better I guess

[pliant hearth]

Exactly that's my problem. They both look good but which will be more beneficial. I mean one is a rare and one isn't so I'm assuming jolted too

[raw blade]

yeah just take jolted

[pliant hearth]

I ended up getting his aid at the shop anyway

[craggy rapids]

Demeter Fists with Demeter Attack, Athena Special, Crit chance on all, and Hermes + like 80% damage is godlike

[static salmon]

man, the shield with aspect of zeus and full zeus build is really broken

I call it the pulse strategy

where you just unleash your special and dash all over the place

cnstantly dealing pulse damages

[long escarp]

Curse of Drowning is the pulse build

[quartz fractal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551522366753079373/885006811055394816/15c8f2eed6cb1472a17cab691ec0de89.png
50 heat got me like

[long escarp]

50 heat

[bronze marten]

If using Zeus as a primary damage source, jolted. If you come across a random Zeus and take the call first, sure, but jolted damage is way stronger than you think it is, like it’s worth using a Pom on jolted before Zeus attack

That’s my hot take for the day

Jolted gud

[lucid oar]

Here's my hot take of the day

If you have both jolted and attack, never pom attack over jolted

[long escarp]

Here’s my hot take of the day

Curse of Pain on Chaos shield is really bad, because it’s doesn’t let you shotgun, and it also doesn’t combine well with Explosive return which is otherwise an incredible hammer for Chaos shield, especially with Aphrodite special (which is what I always go for)

[gritty shuttle]

Just got triple bomb, greater inferno, thunder flourish and a chaos boon buffing special on the aspect of lucifer and jesus christ

I didn’t even need to fire the rail normally

[acoustic vale]

Question: if maim was buffed to make enemies take 50% more damage but do 25% more instead of the reverse, and the damage timer was shortened to be closer to things like doom and what not, how good would Gilgamesh be?

[turbid needle]

still pretty bad because the main downfall of that aspect is the core moveset

but it'd be at least good at blowing up some enemies with the maim doom thing I guess

[cunning urchin]

Beowulf: 215° block, invincible bull rush, broken Mirage Shot, ridiculous damage
Gilgamesh: so err.. you have more dashes, but your dashes suck and your Dash-Attack damage sucks, and you deal less damage overall but enemies do more damage to you, and err.. your Attack is really slow

[long escarp]

Sounds like a steal

[quartz fractal]

aspect of I didn’t realize that the 4 dashes was a feature I thought it was a bug

[lunar flare]

Do status effects activate on enemies with Damage Control shields? I.e. will an Aphro attack make them weak?

[proper furnace]

Yes, they still apply

[turbid needle]

I got a duo boon one time that said abilities that can deflect automatically inflict doom... But it didn't seem to work from attacks themselves with deflect on them, does it only apply when deflecting a projectile? It's not to do with having exposed on deflect already is it?

[lone jetty]

You’re thinking of Merciful End. It doesn’t inflict doom. If you tag a baddie with doom, then hit them with something that deflects, doom drops immediately

[turbid needle]

Oooooh so it instantly inflicts instead of having to wait for the damage

[lunar flare]

Nice, that's 2 more heat for my Chiron grind

Plan is to hit 20 on every weapon and then grind Chiron up to 32

[acoustic vale]

Okay, good to know buffing Gilgamesh even more absurdly isn't going to make it obscene then

[bronze marten]

Yeah if you have ares attack and Athena dash, can just attack dash attack dash repeatedly and do like, 300 damage per cycle. You need Athena special to actually get ME but that right there is the death engine that is merciful end

[acoustic vale]

I'm thinking at least 100% more damage taken by maimed foes, 10% more damage dealt by them (because I'm trying to keep some aspect of the risk/reward), 6 mini dashes instead of 3, and increase the base attacks damage to match the first strike of Arthur, because people kept complaining about gilga being unable to ohko something I know Arthur can. People keep comparing to Beowulf, so I'm buffing it to match Beowulf, taking into account how buggy it is

If this isn't equal to that, I'll buff more lol

[proper furnace]

100% more damage done by summons sounds fun

[lucid oar]

And tidal dash

[lunar flare]

Is a Freezing Vortex build stronger than Heartbreak Strike + Frost Flourish?

Chiron aspect

[lucid oar]

Not on chiron

[lunar flare]

Because Aphro attack + Dem special is gonna proc PS

What is the cast to take on a Demeter special build?

[lucid oar]

One that opens up duos?

Casts aren't going to be a main source of damage on Chiron

And aphro attack dem special doesn't really go for duos

So id personally leave it blank

[lunar flare]

Right

Really Aphrodite is there just because she conveniently adds Weak for PS, if you're doing a Demeter run you don't care for DPS much

OTOH Artemis special opens up Hunting Blades and that's just nasty

[lucid oar]

Yeah, that build is good for removing HL and FO

Maybe shoot for arctic blast if you don't mind sacrificing chill?

[lunar flare]

I hate Arctic Blast so much

Removing chill means removing PS

And the damage add is miniscule

[lucid oar]

Well, on Chiron you're going to be constantly reapplying it, so the damage loss is negligible

[lunar flare]

Not if I also get Killing Freeze

Best boon to turtle a boss fight

But having those two and adding Demeter's leg on top is so worth it

[dense oar]

hey, I am using the Shield of Zeus and I just got an Empowering Flight enchantment-thing

I was wondering whether that triggers on every hit of the blitz disc or just once per throw?

[cunning urchin]

Only once.

Or so I've been told. Mind you, I never verified it myself.

[cunning urchin]

Only every 5th volley would actually remove Chill, and you could immediately reapply it with another volley.

[lunar flare]

Except no. Go actually play with Chiron, the blast takes a few frames (much like Zeus' special), every other volley ends with an enemy no-chilled

[cunning urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/wwe-wwe-alexa-bliss-alexa-bliss-alexa-bliss-meme-alexa-bliss-reaction-gif-17527545

[valid prism]

Yeah but with one mark you have time to apply special 3 times so if 1 volley ends the chill, the other one will make it back

So it looks negligible

Maybe it can be an issue sometimes that a foe ends up being alive without chill but with PS from atk + special, few foes will be alive after Chiron's combo

And if they survive, they probably will be armorless so less dangerous

[cunning urchin]

I still can't get over the "go actually play with Chiron". It's funny.

[turbid needle]

just dont use PS then

[cunning urchin]

I guess I'll have to do that sometime.

[valid prism]

Time for 50 Heat Chiron

[languid forum]

ur reaction was funny tho

[cunning urchin]

Thank you.

I ain't doing any 50 Heat with a broken forearm.

[languid forum]

they left the server

[cunning urchin]

Maybe 40-something.

[languid forum]

wha

[turbid needle]

rip

also get well

[languid forum]

yea

[cunning urchin]

Ty ty.

[languid forum]

i was gonna say but it's not really any of my business

[cunning urchin]

I mean I dunno maybe I was wrong about it, it was just a funny thing to say to me, though.

[languid forum]

um nah

the help u give is invaluable

[cunning urchin]

I mean about only every 5th volley removing Chill. If Arctic Blast is delayed and actually removes Chill on every second volley, I have no idea. Maybe it does that.

I've had zero reason to look into how it works frame by frame.

It wouldn't change anything about how I use my Volley with Chiron.

[cunning urchin]

Ty ty. I hope so.

[languid forum]

the game isn't supposed to be played efficiently imo

it's about what u find fun

if u find demeter special fun on chiron then play demeter special on chiron regardless of if it's good or not

if ur having fun it doesnt matter

[cunning urchin]

I like to optimize.

m just saying I'll just take the damage from Arctic Blast no matter what anyway, so it doesn't matter to me if every second or every fifth volley removes Chill.

[languid forum]

mm yea

[valid prism]

If we follow the speed there are some tricks but if you just want to play with heat, as long as the run is done in the end, who cares

[turbid needle]

that person got fed up with my advice to use something but true shot on poseidon earlier so I think they just get annoyed at our advise in general

but you came off as of making fun of them I think

(it was kinda funny tho)

[valid prism]

Hmm

Well the person is gone so meh

[cunning urchin]

It's their prerogative to leave if they want to. Let's not dwell on it.

[turbid needle]

yes

[sterile fiber]

Wait why is it every 5th volley? Doesn't Chiron special have like, 9 arrows

[cunning urchin]

8 arrows.

8 normally or 12 with Relentless Volley. So it's 40 or 60 arrows after 5 volleys.

[sterile fiber]

But Arctic Blast procs every 10 chill stacks?

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

[sterile fiber]

So shouldn't it proc 2 arrows into the second volley

or is it cooldown like lightnings

[cunning urchin]

Yes, but then it immediately reapplies Chill with the other arrows.

[sterile fiber]

ohhhhhhh

got it

[cunning urchin]

But maybe Arctic Blast really does proc after a delay and Chill is removed every 2 Volleys. I'd have to check that in-game.

[sterile fiber]

I should actually go play Chiron to check it out

[cunning urchin]

I guess I could watch my 41 Heat with Chiron from the other week, actually. I used Frost Flourish in that. Pretty sure I had Arctic Blast, too.

But I don't feel like doing that right now.

[sterile fiber]

fair

[obtuse wind]

question; do last stand and deathless stand stack?? I don't mean the death defiance bc I'm using stubborn but

the effects

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[obtuse wind]

oh nice!

[lucid oar]

You'll miss out on PS with one special arrow anyway, not big of a deal at all

[cunning urchin]

If you lose your SD before you pick up either of those boons, you actually get a DD from her.

And then your SD comes back like normal in the next chamber.

[obtuse wind]

yeah that part I know about. Just wondered since I've already picked up last stand and deathless has popped up in another chamber!

[solar dawn]

Even losing out on PS for at worst a dash attack and a special, the extra damage from AB is most likely worth it

Im gonna check now though

Can confirm it just immediately reapplies it

Does rush delivery apply for attacks while you're faster (using hyper sprint I mean) or is it move speed when it hit?

[cunning urchin]

In other words, I was right?

[turbid needle]

suggestions for aspect of lucifer? i just unlocked it and dont know what to go for on it

[lone jetty]

Zeus attack, Aphro or Artemis on special. Triple Bomb is the best hammer but none are truly awful

[turbid needle]

ohhh so basically the same build from eris

[lone jetty]

Yeah, it’s all weird looking but it plays real similar in the end

[turbid needle]

wait so should i get tidal dash before aphro/art special or the other way around

[lone jetty]

Whatever becomes available to you. Tho without the Eris global damage buff Tidal Dash is less of a priority I think

Still good tho. When I play Luci any dash that can proc the bombs is good in my book

[turbid needle]

okay mabye athena dash if i dont get poseidon

ill just play like its an eris build otherwise except not spamming bombs as much for the damage buff

[lone jetty]

Yeah give it a go. It’s fun.

[opaque hare]

is dying lament good?

can you play that boon as the mvb

[lone jetty]

It’s a decent add-on AOE. Great for weak mobs and little rats and to spread weak around. Can’t say I’d build around it because you kinda gotta kill things first to proc it 😆

[long escarp]

Dying lament is very good on slow single-target weapons like Hestia

[turbid needle]

is a revenge build a good way to play? like using the duo that makes ur revenge proc automatically

[opaque hare]

yes specially if you gather all the revenge boons, aphro, athena, etc..

[delicate tusk]

@acoustic burrow

Here you should be

Which are your favourite aspects?

[acoustic burrow]

I just want something basic on each one

[turbid needle]

is there like a minimal amount of revenge boons u need for it

[acoustic burrow]

not the hidden aspect

[delicate tusk]

At least one, I believe

You can check in the codex

[proper furnace]

1 core from zeus and ares and at least 1 revenge boon

[opaque hare]

nop, just one revenge and one core boon from zeus and ares each

[acoustic burrow]

currently just trying to farm my wins to build up my heat

[opaque hare]

it's fun af btw

[acoustic burrow]

so looking for a basic build on each weapon

[delicate tusk]

Heart Rend build on Nemesis, any build on Achilles (I like Hunting blades), Zeus build (stacking poms on Jolted boons) on Zeus Shield
Dio/Zeus Special on Chiron and build around that, Merciful End build (Doom attack, deflect special, deflect dash) on Demeter Fists, and Zeus boons on Eris

[sterile fiber]

yeah, if I use a special at not-2 stacks, I get the Chill stacks back.
Managed to chain 8 -> 4 -> 1 -> 9 -> 5 on one target. So the blast does skip a few arrows but not enough to come out with no stacks. Maybe using the special at 3 stacks would lose the chill too but I didn't get to test that

[turbid needle]

imo chaos shield is better then zeus shield

with ares special

[proper furnace]

but needs more titan blood than zeus

also zeus can do ME as well

[turbid needle]

true 😌

[delicate tusk]

Dio/Zeus Special on Chiron and build around that, Merciful End build (Doom attack, deflect special, deflect dash) on Demeter Fists, and Zeus boons on Eris

[acoustic burrow]

ya not looking for meta builds atm just easy stuff lol 😄

[delicate tusk]

That should be it

[turbid needle]

this is easy stuff

[delicate tusk]

Yeah I was putting blood into mind first

Zeus shield's main DPS comes from special triggering so that's the best for cheap

[opaque hare]

chiron is pretty cheesy

[turbid needle]

for bow i recommend chiron bow with artemis special

[acoustic burrow]

most of my blood I have spent right now is chiron I think I have one or 2 levels left till max

[turbid needle]

oh damn

its pretty cheesy

[delicate tusk]

hera is good but casts aren't really beginner friendly imo

[acoustic burrow]

lol ya

[delicate tusk]

Yeah if you have maxed chiron then keep using that

[turbid needle]

for fists use ME its imo the best

athena/aries duo

[opaque hare]

poseidon blade on snow burst is the shiet

[delicate tusk]

@acoustic burrow I'll delete my second message and merge into the first, okay?

[acoustic burrow]

honestly my easiest runs have been Zeus on twin fists havnt tried any of the aspects yet

ok

[proper furnace]

i mean outside of grab cast > pom it > suceed(?)

oh zeus with the fists is always fun

[acoustic burrow]

get me some DD and its just a cake walk

[turbid needle]

never tried it myself 😞

ive only used ME for fists

[proper furnace]

grab aphro on special, zeus call and have fun if smoldering comes up

[astral mirage]

What’s the best Bow aspect?

[turbid needle]

pretty sure chiron but its also personal preference

[proper furnace]

imo hera but thats bc i like the speed

chiron is nice for easy clears

and tbf, all bows are good

[turbid needle]

i havent gotten it yet, but im p sure the hidden bow is pretty good

[proper furnace]

zag bow is quite boring tbh but it works great

also yes, hidden bow is good

[opaque hare]

it's got some edge with the buff

[turbid needle]

isnt it the one thats super good with art attack and triple shot

[proper furnace]

doesnt make it less boring

[turbid needle]

oop-

[opaque hare]

oopsie

[acoustic burrow]

do any of these builds kinda badand I should go for cast build like demeter or ares casts? Ive had pretty good luck with those every once in awhile

[opaque hare]

you got caught

[acoustic burrow]

😄

[proper furnace]

cast builds are fun

[delicate tusk]

Again, hera is great but I know I sucked at the game and did not use casts until like the 50th game

[acoustic burrow]

shiz is a bad word I guess 😄

[proper furnace]

if you want to use demeter/ares casts you may want achilles

[delicate tusk]

Maybe I'm just projecting a tiny bit

[turbid needle]

hunting blades. achilles. try it.

[delicate tusk]

Yeah I suggested that

[turbid needle]

i used to hate spear now i love it

[delicate tusk]

Achilles in general is fun

[turbid needle]

trying to learn guan yu rn but its hard with the health reduction

[delicate tusk]

I always re-bind the special button to the dash button when I play Achilles

[turbid needle]

woah

[delicate tusk]

And just have nothing for the dash button

[proper furnace]

huh

i like achilles as an extra dash for fun but the other day i aimed it straight into a pot

[delicate tusk]

yes it's suboptimal

[proper furnace]

[delicate tusk]

but EMPOWERMENT

[acoustic burrow]

im confused about the what achilles does I'm reading it on the wiki but still kinda lost

[delicate tusk]

Okay you've played with the zag spear right?

[proper furnace]

after using you special your next 4 attacks/casts gets bonus damage

[acoustic burrow]

ya

[delicate tusk]

Remember how you can recall it after you throw it?

[acoustic burrow]

so do I have to puick it up with rush?

before I get the bonus?

or can I just leave it

[proper furnace]

need to rush

[delicate tusk]

Achilles's schtick is that if you "pick it up" again after throwing it, your next few attacks/casts deal more damage

[proper furnace]

you can still retrieve if you use attack instead of special after throwing it

[acoustic burrow]

So I need to pick it up with rush to get the bonus

[proper furnace]

yup

[acoustic burrow]

hmmm...

[delicate tusk]

Yeah so it basically replaces dash for me

Empower ALL attacks

[proper furnace]

only 4 attacks or casts

if it was global damage would be weird

[delicate tusk]

I mean, if it were global damage then ||Meg|| for a ton would be nice

[proper furnace]

global damage doesnt affect summons

[delicate tusk]

Which is ODD

[proper furnace]

unless it says "enemy suffers more damage"

[delicate tusk]

It should!

[proper furnace]

global damage is the one that zag does

[proper furnace]

so things like sweet surrender/maim/targetting system increase summon

[delicate tusk]

Also it's odd that Chaos damages through invul

[proper furnace]

as in the chaos curse?

[delicate tusk]

Like damnit I picked up Athena's aid just to use Chaos, penalty-free

[proper furnace]

havent taked her aid in ages so didnt know that

fun

[opaque hare]

with the fists the dash-special doesn't count as special, that's the only penalty free chaos i experienced

[delicate tusk]

Hm yeah that's an odd exception that the game makes

If I had to hazard a guess, it'd be because of their coding of Gilga that makes it so

[turbid needle]

technically with the aid it makes you impervious to all damage so

[opaque hare]

idk, it's a different move aswell

upper hits twice and dash upper hits once, quicker

i think

[proper furnace]

yup

[acoustic burrow]

Can you have more then one duo on a build?

[sterile fiber]

you can have more than one duo boon

[solar dawn]

Yes

Only thing is it looks different with relentless volley. Without it there's like no visual downtime on either the chill stacks or PS, with it it looks like it goes away for a second but it does reapply from the last arrow in the volley

[rocky trail]

whats the best weapon and aspect for using sisyphus?

keepsake

[little quiver]

so i wanna try beowulf, whats a good build? i was thinking maybe trippy shot, with either zeus or demeter?

[rugged geyser]

either posideon or trippy shot

with posideon, get his cast and dash, artemis on attack then go for mirage shot

with trippy, go stygian soul and you must get atleast one more cast from either chaos or artemis, go for artemis attack and posideon dash and go for mirage shot

go for zeus duo

posideon is more consistant cause easier mirage shot and more casts

trippy can be better but its much harder to make better

[little quiver]

well i went with trippy and got a demeter boon right after so ill probably go for her duo, also im trying the charge beam hammer, so far its fun, lets see what happens after tartarus, probably gonna grab artemis and pose keep sakes

[rugged geyser]

charge beam hammer?

[little quiver]

the one that turns the bullrush into a ranged attack

[raw blade]

charged shot

[little quiver]

yeah that one

[proper furnace]

aphro cast also works, also an excuse to use PS if you pair it with snow burst

[rugged geyser]

Oh nice

Charge shot is by far the best

[little quiver]

ps?

[cunning urchin]

Privileged Status.

[rugged geyser]

Aphro has less aoe so it could be harder against big groups

[cunning urchin]

Passion Flare would easily be #1 if Mirage Shot wasn't bugged. It's still #1 for high heat.

[little quiver]

oh mirage shot is bugged? whats wrong with it?

[cunning urchin]

It does 100% damage instead of 30% when your Cast is a Flare.

[little quiver]

oh, yeah thats crazy

[rugged geyser]

So the reason posideon is so good is because of early mirage shot?

[cunning urchin]

Hence why Flood Flare is meta for speedruns now. Fastest route to Mirage Shot.

Yup.

The AOE is decent, too, of course, but that's not the reason.

[little quiver]

well gotta try it later then, shield is by far my lowes weapon right after the fists

[rugged geyser]

Does the bug also work with trippy flare on hera?

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

But it's still slower than Crush Shot.

Main issue is that Trippy Flare desperately needs Grasp or a healthy supply of Prometheus Stones throughout the run.

Speaking of Trippy Flare, that's also bugged.

Trippy Flare poms add twice as much damage as the numbers show... but only if you're using Beowulf. It works as intended on Hera.

And if you ever purge your Attack boon on Beowulf, the AOE of your Cast gets reset to base Cast AOE.

Beowulf, more like Bugbug.

[raw blade]

lol what

i didnt know this

busted

[cunning urchin]

Give it a month and people are gonna find a couple more Beowulf bugs.

[little quiver]

so i didnt go with stygian for my trippy shot build, does it do more damage if i load multiple casts? or is one after the other stronger?

[cunning urchin]

Oh yeah, Trippy Flare crits do 2x damage instead of 3x.

[little quiver]

dont i need pressure points to crit with my cast?

[cunning urchin]

Pressure Points, Hunter's Mark, or Splitting Headache.

[little quiver]

nice

[cunning urchin]

I guess load multiple Casts when you need multiple Casts to one-shot enemies.

[little quiver]

the pom thing is riduculous, one cast hits for 700 aoe :S

[cunning urchin]

Beowulf is both broken in how strong it is and broken in how bugged it is.

[little quiver]

yeah it seems super strong so far

[subtle star]

Só…I am trying out Hestia for the first time and have no idea which direction to go boom-wise…suggestions?

[raw blade]

im guessing aphro or arte will be good on attack

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Tidal Dash or Hunter Dash.

[raw blade]

do you even use the flourish tho

[cunning urchin]

And get as many Strike and Lunge boons from Master Chaos as you can.

Yeah.

Every other reload, you can just press Special + Reload at the same time.

[raw blade]

i see

[cunning urchin]

You'll want Fiery Presence from the mirror.

[subtle star]

I am gonna start with Arty and go from there...thanks!

[delicate tusk]

Yeah you won't be backstabbing much

[cunning urchin]

Deadly Strike does poor damage 85% of the time and good damage 15% of the time. Heartbreak Strike one-shots enemies a lot more consistently.

[subtle star]

I will likely try both...but good call

[little quiver]

@cunning urchin ok i just got mirage shot, this is ridiculous

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish is generally a better combo on Hestia than the reverse.

[raw blade]

with trippy?

[cunning urchin]

But neither is bad, anyway.

[little quiver]

Yeah, now i just need ice wine. But a single cast already does 1.3k

[raw blade]

damn

[cunning urchin]

Ice Wine adds a delay to your Cast and doesn't add that much damage. It's okay, but not a very high priority.

Like the damage you get is just about what you get from a common Shot from Master Chaos.

[rugged geyser]

I Ussualy go Zeus when doing trippy shot

[little quiver]

yeah but i i already got a naturall demeter and picked her up to get rare crop

[rugged geyser]

Oh ok

Zeus trippy shot with jolted is super good

[little quiver]

Yeah zeus would have been my 6th god, i already needed to force pose in elysium

[sterile fiber]

What's the thinking behind getting Cast damage boost vs +1 bloodstone from Chaos with Infernal Soul

like how to decide. I guess +1 cast is +30% damage but sometimes you want more casts for mobs?

[subtle star]

According to the math, an xtra cast almost always gives you a little more damage out put and can be spread more among mobs

[solar dawn]

On infernal +1 cast is effectively+33% but you lose out on some utility that comes with having that extra stone. I generally like to get one more cast then just go damage.

Infernal extra casts fall off, goes 33, 25, 20, etc and past 4 you generally don't need that many casts

3 is already plenty really

[cunning urchin]

For +1 ammo:

   (current_bonus_dmg + 1) /
   current_max_ammo```

Not accounting for Casting time, ammo regeneration, etc.

[hollow roost]

ok apparently hunting blades is op

i was struggling to clear the game and now that i tried it

i cleared 2 times in a row

[cunning urchin]

Not OP, but it's a very beginner-friendly build if everything falls into place, yeah.

Have you tried Crystal Clarity yet?

[subtle star]

I love Crystal Clarity…my comfort cast

I actually enjoyed Crystal beams before stumbling upon clarity…but once you have that tracking speed…hard to go back

[hollow roost]

what does that do

[lucid oar]

Crystal beams track faster and do +10% more damage

It's the tracking faster that is good

[hollow roost]

havent tried that, but i did get my first clear with the demeter cast

i would assume with the duo demeter cast is even more

[lucid oar]

Yeah it's pretty solid

[hollow roost]

it seems ares cast is kinda useless until you get the duo meanwhile demeter cast still does work without having duo

[lucid oar]

I don't think it's as good as hunting blades tho

They are both kinda slow without it

[hollow roost]

true i guess

never tried the dem duo

thats my next build then

do u go 3 cast with demeter cast build or the regeneration one?

[lucid oar]

Regeneration one is amazing if you get another cast

And glacial glare

[bronze marten]

3 casts is more reliably useful, but if you Pom the crap out of glacial glare and get another stone from chaos, it’ll be super based

[lucid oar]

3 casts is more consistent

[bronze marten]

like, 12 lasers out

One approach I learned from the fine folks at high heat was start Artemis attack, then take either dem or ares and let the game decide which homing cast I should play that run

[hollow roost]

i like being based

[bronze marten]

then to be the most based, arctic blast, glacial glare, crystal clarity

mirage shot if possible (doubles arctic blast damage)

[hollow roost]

mirage is the one which makes a second worse one?

[bronze marten]

yeah

but in the case of crystal clarity and glacial glare

it doubles the speed in which chills stack

[hollow roost]

oh god

[bronze marten]

which in turn triggers arctic blast twice as much

[hollow roost]

that sounds like

meltage

[bronze marten]

yep

[hollow roost]

i justt need to take every dem room and switch to artemis keepsake in asphodel

right

[bronze marten]

so if you want to do a cast run with one of the homing artemis casts

i'd recommend start artemis attack and take a natural demeter OR ares, whoever shows up first

for lasers or rifts

[hollow roost]

okay

[bronze marten]

and also try to get poseidon for mirage (the dash is gud)

as a third priority

then aspho, keepsake either dem/ares

[hollow roost]

based on which one i want

got it

[bronze marten]

whichever one you got

[hollow roost]

yea

[bronze marten]

the reason being, artemis attack will help you more than an unbuffed meme beam and saw early

[hollow roost]

true

and i guess achiless spear right

[bronze marten]

also prioritize chaos

yes

[hollow roost]

yea basically why i won my last run was i got chaos +1 cast in tartarus itself

[bronze marten]

chaos you take over everything except artemis, dem/ares, maybe poseidon

buying light of ixion is a good move

[hollow roost]

okay

[bronze marten]

gods legacy worth it too

also if u get a random artemis and nothing useful to do with it, pressure points then support fire (opens up legendary for 2 extra casts)

[hollow roost]

i havent reached far enough to get gods legacy

yea i take support fire usually a lot

just like having it

[subtle star]

I am a button masher currently so I love support fire…Hera bow with True shot cast and Support fire makes me feel like Mando when he uses his “whistling birds” with every single attack…

[cunning urchin]

[Master] Chaos you take over everything except [Lady] Artemis, [Lady] Demeter/[Lord] Ares, maybe Poseidon
FTFY

[bright fossil]

nya

What is the build for Guan yu again?

Beside smoldering and heart rend

[bronze marten]

Pray for the Charged special hammer

[proven osprey]

Merciful End for speed, otherwise you have a lot of good options if you just wanna clear

Aphrodite/Artemis/Athena/Demeter on the attack

Whatever has a good % on special and you're set

Curse of agony is good too

Most important thing is to stick to the combo and not get trapped while spinning

[cunning urchin]

@bright fossil #h1-discussion message

You'll want plenty of Chaos Boons for DPS.

Flourish if you have Charged Skewer, Strike if you have a spin build, and Strike or Lunge otherwise.

[bronze marten]

should there be a pinned post with links to all your guides somewhere

that would be super helpful to have around

[bright fossil]

cool tks

[cunning urchin]

Very sure the devs don't want to promote any one playstyle or build over another.

[bright fossil]

tks

that was very helpful

[proven osprey]

[bronze marten]

[astral mirage]

Best Beowulf build(s)?

[raw blade]

dio cast and posiedon cast are pretty neat

mirage shot is extremely good

[proven osprey]

Flood flare, mirage shot

Deadly strike is good, even better with charged shot

So you try to get mirage that way

Then as support boons, Demeter is super nice with ravenous will and snow burst

On top of that, buying Prometheus stones and Braid of Atlas is super nice, especially with the bone hourglass in the late game

[astral mirage]

Who has that?

[raw blade]

its a duo boon

lol bean

artemis poseidon duo

[astral mirage]

I know that lmao

[astral mirage]

Okay thanks

[raw blade]

👍

[astral mirage]

I got it before but I forgot the duo

[proven osprey]

You'll get the prerequisites with deadly strike and flood flare

[astral mirage]

Thanks man, so should I equip that well Charon keepsake?

[proven osprey]

If you can't get the strike because you're unlucky, it's fine to take the flourish

[astral mirage]

I feel like it runs out before I verse Hades

[proven osprey]

Yeah, the bone hourglass. Only do it if you have everything and you can buy something right after equipping the keepsake

[astral mirage]

Oh my b. Forgot the name

[proven osprey]

It's very nice to have

[astral mirage]

I’ll try to get this set up. Thanks for your detailed description!

[proven osprey]

Oh also take chaos gates. Cast damage and bonus stones are super great

My pleasure o/

[astral mirage]

Oh yeah ofc, always try to go to them as often as possible

[dim merlin]

Does Hunter Dash effect dash special for fists?

[lucid oar]

Yes

[dim merlin]

Awesome, thank you!

[quartz fractal]

what is the interaction between beowulf and mirage shot that makes it super strong

iirc i heard about that somewhere

[cunning urchin]

Mirage Shot does 100% damage instead of 30% when your Cast is a Flare.

[quartz fractal]

oh thats it

does hera use flares aswell?

[lucid oar]

Only Dionysus cast

And yes, that gets the double damage as well, but not the increased pom scaling

[proper furnace]

Does destroying an enemy armor removes whatever BP they have?

[cunning urchin]

No.

[proper furnace]

Ty

[solid latch]

I got a duo in chamber 5 on my newer save and then proceeded to lose all of my revives to the butterfly ball smhh

[scenic fox]

Are recommended builds for beginners posted somewhere to take notes from?

[boreal prism]

there's a guide pinned in #h1-for-new-players

[scenic fox]

Guess I should have checked there first, thank you!

[dim merlin]

FML I just got Low Tolerance and Epic Heartbreak Strike in the same choice

[subtle star]

Duel Duo choices are at times the “Sophie’s Choice” of Hades…soooo difficult

[blissful cypress]

Why do people dislike the Aphrodite Dionysus duo boon? Put that on Chiron and it slaps lmao

[subtle star]

Which people? I love me some Low Tolerance!

[lone jetty]

Yeah that one’s dope

[opaque hare]

what does aspect of talos do?

after you Q your attacks and cast deal bonus dmg?

[proper furnace]

special pulls enemies and the extra damages from attacks/cast yeah

[boreal prism]

It pulls enemies that's the cool part

Although damage increases is all that matters to speed runners

Here's a talos secret: pulling an enemy counts as the enemy moving, which means it activates rupture effect

[bright fossil]

can you pull bosses tho?

if not the pull part is pretty useless right?

[opaque hare]

it doesn't pull but it applies the debuff on them that makes them take +40% dmg of cast and attack

[bright fossil]

only 40% for that long ass animation?

[opaque hare]

how much do you want

i think if you dash-upper it's quicker

[lone jetty]

Up to 50% maxed. Dash-upper is much faster.

If you’ve got Poseidon goodies, you can yoink through barriers and across gaps to trigger breaking wave. Easily waxed an Erebus chamber with super elites with that trick

[surreal lava]

So uh I'm having trouble beating Hades for the first time of the playthrough so any tips?

[worn solar]

well whats killing you

uh also what does your mirror look like

[surreal lava]

Hmm mirror isn't maxed but close

[worn solar]

like which green upgrades are you using if any

[surreal lava]

It seems like alot of people don't know they exist lol but yes I have a few give me a sec to get a screenshot I play on switch so I have to move it to my phone the slow way

[polar python]

Question: Does rare crop reroll probabilities as it increases rarity? E.g. does the final probability of the legendary depend on how good the original was?

[misty sun]

I heard that Achilles is good for a cast build.
What cast would you guys recommend?

[solar dawn]

no, rarity doesnt affect legendary/duo probabilities

[solar dawn]

Non-lodging casts are really strong on it, hunting blades, meme beam, dio cast are fun on it

[misty sun]

Meme beam?

[solar dawn]

demeter cast

[polar python]

So what is the benefit of Rate Crop then?

[solar dawn]

It increases the rarity of your current boons progressively, so they get stronger

up to heroic (max)

[polar python]

Right but if it's not rerolling as the rarity increases what's the mechanic?

[cunning urchin]

Rerolling?

[solar dawn]

It picks 1-3 random boons, sets them down to common, and slowly upgrades their rarity, which increases their damage/effect

It doesnt affect other things

[polar python]

Some boons have a variable bonus attached

Within a rarity there seems to be a range of values (unless I'm mistaken)

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[polar python]

So you can (i think) get good and bad common boons

[cunning urchin]

No, common boons only have one value.

[bright fossil]

mew which special to put on Rama if i use Aphro attack again?

[cunning urchin]

And the range for higher rarity boons is too small to really matter.

[bright fossil]

i guess dio to activate privileg or smth?

or demeter for easier to landing shots

[polar python]

Ohh, so as a boon gains rarity it will get its multiplier recalculated

[cunning urchin]

Thunder Flourish, Drunken Flourish, or Curse of Pain.

[polar python]

But it's not random?

[bright fossil]

Dio+ Art duo is bad on rama or smth?

i used to think it is kinda decent since it crits a lot

[polar python]

So I should be able to calculate the final heroic boon stats (or maybe for any given boon they are just fixed)

I really thought some boons had random element in their numbers not just based on rarity

Hence thinking about "rerolling"

[cunning urchin]

I don't know if a boon that starts at rare with an e.g. 1.3x factor that's reset to common (1x) and then upgraded to rare again is at 1.3x again or if it can change to 1.32x or something. But the range is too small to have a meaningful effect. And when it's epic, it's greater than the rare factor range anyway.

Common is always the base anyway and has only one value.

[polar python]

Right so if i already had a heroic boon and it got hit by rare crop, in theory it might end up worse?

[cunning urchin]

I just said I don't know.

[polar python]

Didn't realize common had only one value. But in this case that's not important.

[cunning urchin]

Indeed.

[polar python]

Someone else might know.

[cunning urchin]

I daresay probably not.

As in, there's probably no one who knows.

[polar python]

i dunno, people dig into mechanics a lot for these things. It should even be directly observable as rare crop procs

[solar dawn]

I mean yeah but its gonna be a small difference and if you already have heroic boons that you want, idk why you'd take the crop

In theory you could go from a 2.5 to a 2.3 multiplier but I havent had it happen, doubt really anyone has

[polar python]

Well that's exactly where my question comes from. Under what circumstances is rare crop a potentially "bad" choice?

[solar dawn]

If you get it at the end of styx, your boons are already epic/heroic, you want something else from demeter, things like that

[turbid needle]

it doesnt do much in a lot of cases and you cant even sell the boon

[polar python]

Yeah I get the "not enough encounters" risk.

[cunning urchin]

I've been researching and keeping up with all the latest Hades theory and findings since Early Access. The thing is the range at Heroic is too small to matter, and getting rare crop on a heroic boon is an extremely niche situation. There's no need to know this, so no incentive to verify.

[polar python]

Exactly I am finding it a bit underwhelming and wanted to dig in to whether I had misunderstood something about it.

[cunning urchin]

Somebody probably has, but no one cared enough to verify if the multiplier was different from before.

[polar python]

Even if it hits a few rare boons it's not feeling like a big win over other Dem boons. I'll treat it with more caution in future (maybe only take it up to start of Elysium).

[cunning urchin]

It's situationally excellent or detrimental.

[polar python]

I might do the analysis next time I see it, just to know for myself.

[solar dawn]

I only really take it if I dont have that many boons and my core boons are common

[cunning urchin]

Please share your findings if you do.

[solar dawn]

Theres better options really

[polar python]

Will do.

I mean if t maxes out the multiplier, that'd be good.

[cunning urchin]

She has plenty of bad options, too. It really just depends a lot on how far into the run you are, what boons you have, what rarity they are, your current pool, your pacts...

[worn solar]

nourishing soul with lc 4

[polar python]

Yeah, Demeter's boons seem complex and fairly meta.

[cunning urchin]

Most meta builds only care for Ravenous Will, Snow Burst, and Killing Freeze from her.

[worn solar]

chill is a bit eh other than just proccing privileged status and demeter doesnt really have the best duo boons

[cunning urchin]

Chill is great.

You just don't need it most of the time and would rather have damage.

[polar python]

I assume chill plus Arthur special would stack.

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

[polar python]

Really slow things down.

[cunning urchin]

Yep.

[languid forum]

chill is wonderful with FO2

[turbid needle]

dem cores just get outclassed by other builds most of the time

but like nya said cast builds actually want her

[turbid needle]

Yo gem farming - what's the optimal strategy? I was thinking if grabbing poseidon's keepsake at the start is worth it - Imo you should just have cosmic egg at all stages besides the 2nd one just to force the gem+% boon with posiedons (and you pick anything for attack/dash/special/cast in the first stage). Is this improvable?

[cunning urchin]

Cosmic Egg doesn't make Chaos Gates any more likely.

[errant narwhal]

It doesn’t, but it could give you higher rarity of boons it they do appear

It’s the same as farming darkness, so I start poseidon keepsake, reroll for oceans bounty, hope for chaos, reroll for eclipse boons, and make sure you’ve bough vanquishers keep from the contractor which gives gems from bosses

Sunken treasure and huge catch from poseidon are actually also alright because some fish give gems

[turbid needle]

yeah but I think that's a waste of rerolls, if you get like 2-3 basic boons that are NON poseidon, you will be pretty much guaranteed ocenas bounty next time you see him.

and getting a poseidon's basic boon will give you more choices to appear next time you see him, therefore lower chance for wanted boons

[proper furnace]

picking his boons will also open the tier 2 boons if you also care about that

[turbid needle]

yeah thats what Im saying, you should only pick oceans and sunken

oceans only unlocks legendary which is also wanted

[bright nymph]

Hey Im trying to beat the game quicker and quicker as thats what I find I enjoy the most but to me it seems really random, my fastest clear is 14:56 with 15 heat but there is plenty of times I feel Im about to crush my time but end up a minute behind. Is there any obvious things to avoid to not lose time? Spesific strats? Im struggling to find a clear guide to this

[turbid needle]

well in general, heat makes you slower, except for forced overtime which lets enemies spawn quicker, so turn down the heat a bit

[bright nymph]

I have extreme measures 2 on, I heard that would be also quicker

Since hydras little small buddies are much closer together and easier to clear

[proper furnace]

em2 and fo2 are the best for speedrun ye

if doing rta any lvl of tight deadline to remove survival rooms in tartarus

[bright nymph]

Ye got 5 min deadline on

[polar python]

I've run out of 5 minute deadlines too often to like it

Especially if you have EM3 since the Theseus fight can take a while.

[opaque hare]

does clearing the damage control armor of a foe count as damaging them?

[proper furnace]

nope

[opaque hare]

like you clear the armor and then you can trigger fiery presence bonus dmg?

[proper furnace]

yup, you still can trigger it

[opaque hare]

nice

it's good for aspect of talos so the pull doenst ruin the fiery presence dmg

[raw blade]

this is actually a good strat

i never thought of this before

[polar python]

Yeah, I had wondered that. Thanks for clarifying.

Damage Control 1 is basically free with Talos then, since most enemies will have been pulled to you.

[proven osprey]

Fiery presence does not apply after shredding the armor

Only after clearing DC hearts

[glossy crag]

which blessing do you use for the spear

the achille spear

same for the beowulf shiels

[lone jetty]

Go-to for Beo is start Flood Flare and start off halfway to Mirage Shot, or Passion Flare and start fishing for snow burst or mirage shot. Achilles generally likes the non-sticking casts and duos (ice Wine, Hunting Blades, Crystal Clarity) but any cast is v strong on it

[rugged geyser]

Doesn’t fists want backstab though

Cause the first hit is never that big

[lucid oar]

Nah you want fiery for breakpoints

[rugged geyser]

@lone jetty if you want to do a non cast build on Achilles go Zeus attack and get flurry jab hammer

[lone jetty]

They’re probably thinking use the special to strip hearts and debuff, then nuke the cast

[lucid oar]

Also you start tidal dash on Achilles because both Zeus attack and Artemis attack are really good

[lone jetty]

Splash dash flurry Achilles is a gas

[opaque hare]

yes i kept trying one shot builds with the fist but it's too much fuzz

i mean the bonus cast dmg of talos is good to boost apro cast for example, but with damage control and stuff it's like you have to be too careful with your keys and such

hey

slicing shot can't benefit from parting shot?

[worn solar]

dont think that backstabs

[fading panther]

Casts don’t have inherent backstabs

[proper furnace]

Last time i did slicing shot + parting it could backstab

[fading panther]

Wait, what?

[worn solar]

or maybe it does

[proper furnace]

At least with hunting blades

Idk if alone it could

[fading panther]

How does that even makes sense lol

[proper furnace]

Hitbox is weird

[worn solar]

wait can dio cast backstab with parting

[proper furnace]

Nope

[fading panther]

And how much damage it would have on backstabs? Lol

[worn solar]

+50% from shadowy prescense plus the 35% from parting ig