yea only heat level matters :p
#h1-builds-and-combat
silk hearth
supple igloo
long escarp
I have 5 different aspects at 32 heat. Not incredible but it’s not nothing
edgy mauve
yea only heat level matters :p
speed
cunning urchin
Well, glad I win in both heat level and hours, then, if that's what matters.
silk hearth
haha
long escarp
My speedrun Pb is 9:49 so yeah that’s not too impressive
Point is, I have a lot of experience but I’m willing to accept that I could be very wrong about some boons
silk hearth
thats good :)
long escarp
Could someone explain what makes CoV good? 100 damage is not enough to make up for taking damage on any heat above 20
cunning urchin
Curse of Vengeance has a very high number. Have you looked at it before?
edgy mauve
and it applies doom
fading nymph
cov big number
silk hearth
u will end up taking dmg anyway
cunning urchin
I mean it doesn't have to "make up" for anything.
supple igloo
Big number good
cunning urchin
You got hit either way.
But now you actually do damage back when before you weren't.
long escarp
and it applies doom
Applying doom isn’t better than just raw damage? What’s your point here I don’t get it
silk hearth
its good early on since enemies take a lot of dmg form i t
fading nymph
not like it takes up a core boon slot or anything
silk hearth
its strong but ofc zeus vengeance is stronger
fading panther
I do think CoV kinda slow though, like you get hit ten times but only 3 of those will do damage
silk hearth
I do think CoV kinda slow though, like you get hit ten times but only 3 of those...
yea
long escarp
Yeah you’re right. But most of the time I get hit maybe twice a room unless I’m having a really bad run. If I’m getting hit enough to make it good, I feel like I’m probably gonna just lose
edgy mauve
i think its a good alternative to Heavens vengeance
long escarp
I don’t like any of the vengeance boons
cunning urchin
If you get hit 10 times that fast, Heaven's Vengeance is obviously better. If you get hit by one big swing, Curse of Vengeance does more damage.
fading nymph
you don't have to get hit for it to be good
silk hearth
wait isnt zeus and ares both 100 dmg?
fading panther
I mean, I understand that it is there to complement your damage, not being a main damager move, but, you gotta commit to get the most out of doom imo
fading nymph
its just in the background doing its thing
long escarp
you don't have to get hit for it to be good
How? It only does something when I get hit. Explain this
fading panther
Unless I’m getting it wrong, of course 
fading nymph
I mean its not going to be bad if your "not getting hit enough"
silk hearth
anyway bye i have to go
cunning urchin
Heaven's Vengeance starts at 80. Curse of Vengeance starts at 100.
supple igloo
Say you are running ME, and u have the other doom buff boons, CoV will be strengthened too and you will have an alternate dps to go with your main build that still hits big numbers every now and then with one little boon
I think that is enough to make CoV very good
long escarp
I mean its not going to be bad if your "not getting hit enough"
Well it’s gonna be a completely useless boon. So I’d disagree with you
edgy mauve
saying that vengeance boons are useless is like saying ur doing no hit runs every run imo
fading panther
Depending on how you play, you do get hit a lot, even when you didn’t actually die a lot anymore
fading nymph
ahh yes just simply dont get hit
long escarp
saying that vengeance boons are useless is like saying ur doing no hit runs ever...
Obviously I’m not, but I don’t ever find the upside of them to be good enough to justify their inclusion
supple igloo
Read my message
long escarp
The only times they pull their weight is when I’m absolutely bombing and then I’ll still die anyway
cunning urchin
Their inclusion into what? Vengeance boons do something that other boons don't.
fading nymph
If you don't get hit you don't need weak 
its not like every boon is going to be your main damage source lol
cunning urchin
I wonder what kind of value you're expective from a non-core boon that's tier 1.
cunning urchin
ur not using a vengeance boon as ur main damage source
I mean you can though. Just go afk while fighting dad.
edgy mauve
unless ur consistently doing no hit runs vengeance boons arent useless
long escarp
I don’t use them as my main damage obviously. But they just do so little that I find they’re rarely ever worth an inclusion
supple igloo
Dadge
edgy mauve
supple igloo
With impending doom tho
fading nymph
Heroic can but you cant get that in tart
long escarp
With impending doom tho
If you got CoV and also impending doom in Tartarus you are handicapping your damage output out the gate
cunning urchin
You'll have global damage modifiers, too. You're not doing only 140 damage.
edgy mauve
I don’t use them as my main damage obviously. But they just do so little that I ...
you're expecting way too much from a t1 non core boon imo
long escarp
Maybe so
cunning urchin
How are you handicapping your damage output by taking a boon that does damage? 
edgy mauve
i think impending in tart without ME is a handicap if doom is ur main source of damage
long escarp
How are you handicapping your damage output by taking a boon that does damage? <...
Tartarus is the place to begin your build. If your damage output it based off getting hit, you’re in bad shape
cunning urchin
Bruh.
fading panther
If you only had CoV, I don’t think it’s good enough most of the time besides any other boons you can get, CoV needs commitment, but, once you do, it will complement your main damage nicely
cunning urchin
You're not "basing" your build on that.
fading panther
Impending Doom will boost it so much
fading nymph
taking two boons isn't harming your build
cunning urchin
That doesn't mean it's a bad idea to take an Epic Curse of Vengeance in Tartarus if you see it.
long escarp
You're not "basing" your build on that.
But you’re getting two boons for it in the first 12 chambers?
fading nymph
its just supporting it
cunning urchin
I mean if that's what you're running into, that's what you take.
fading nymph
more than two boons is very reasonable in tart
cunning urchin
What else are you gonna take from him on Chiron? He doesn't have a lot to offer. Curse of Vengeance is a decent pick-up if you run into him.
fading nymph
unless your running RI then it be like that sometimes
long escarp
taking two boons isn't harming your build
No ofc not, but you don’t say “CoV + Impeding doom is great for Tartarus enemies” feels kinda crazy to me
cunning urchin
If you're playing on heats where Tartarus enemies are not a threat for you, then it doesn't matter, of course.
long escarp
This isn’t the hill I want to die on lmao
fading panther
Spread in out and just take your time focusing on one enemy while the DoT do it’s job
Rinse and repeat
edgy mauve
its actually quite the nice strat with doom
hit em and put em in lethal doom
and focus on the next one
cunning urchin
You can genuinely make it through a lot of Tartarus rooms with just SD + vengeance boons and nothing else lol.
fading panther
and focus on the next one
Exactly
cunning urchin
Always nice to get some payback on dad when he hits you with a spin, too.
long escarp
You can genuinely make it through a lot of Tartarus rooms with just SD + vengean...
With BP2? At heats where it actually matters?
fading panther
CoV alone won’t do much, but with Impending, it’s so much higher
cunning urchin
Pom scaling is insane, too.
long escarp
If you apply to instances of doom, does the second overwrite the first?
fading nymph
is there a way to check a boons pom scaling
edgy mauve
If you apply to instances of doom, does the second overwrite the first?
if the second is higher than the first i think
fading nymph
If you apply to instances of doom, does the second overwrite the first?
thats how it works for hangover so probably
cunning urchin
Yah, with BP2. I don't know on what heat you think it "actually matters".
long escarp
if the second is higher than the first i think
I know with hangover you can screw up your deo cast with a drunken dash lmao
edgy mauve
I know with hangover you can screw up your deo cast with a drunken dash lmao
it doesnt work like hangover
long escarp
Ok then how does it work
cunning urchin
Definitely works just fine at 32.
edgy mauve
if the second is higher than the first i think
pretty sure this is how it works
long escarp
Definitely works just fine at 32.
CoV and SD almost solo Tartarus rooms at 32 heat? If thats true then maybe I’ll reconsider the boon I guess
long escarp
that’s a stupid argument but ok
cunning urchin
No need to use language like that.
cunning urchin
And depends on the enemies, but trying to reset in Tartarus when you have an Epic Curse of Vengeance can actually be tricky, yes.
long escarp
Alright I’m willing to give CoV a shot next time it’s the least bad option I’m given
I wonder what other boons stuff I’m wrong about
When I played this game a lot, I didn’t use online resources very much
The game is so complicated that it’s easy to overlook or overestimate certain boons that do things that are harder to calculate
cunning urchin
I'd say one thing that top players in Hades have in common is their willingness to give everything a try and figure out how to make the most of it.
cunning urchin
Whereas I see other players write off boons and stuff a lore more easily.
cunning urchin
im pretty sure cov cant solo tartarus rooms
I said it depends on the enemies lol.
long escarp
What do you think about Passion Dash?
silk hearth
there r better dashes ofc
long escarp
Great as in worth using or great as in good enough to take early in Tartarus
silk hearth
its good if u get it, but i dont think u should take it intentionally
edgy mauve
unless ur doing heart rend i wouldnt take passion dash
cunning urchin
I'll often start Passion Dash over Heartbreak Strike on Nemesis.
silk hearth
yea nemesis would be the exception since crit goes well with it
long escarp
I’ve ended up with it and found it to be serviceable but I actively avoid it until at least late Asphodel to not lock myself off from any actual good dashes
cunning urchin
Not for Heart Rend specifically. Just simply because it scales way better with poms than Heartbreak Strike.
Well, you should put poms on it like you have Tidal Dash, pretty much.
It gets close to Tidal Dash damage pretty quick, just that you don't get any of the wall-slams and t2 boons like Breaking Wave.
fading panther
Poor man’s Tidal Dash?
silk hearth
but wouldnt most of the dmg come from attacks
cunning urchin
But the lack of knockback can be better depending on your build.
silk hearth
so it should still be better to pom attack
cunning urchin
No. Every Dash-Strike is damage from both Dash + Attack.
So you pom whichever adds more damage.
And that's Dash.
long escarp
Demeter, Dio, Ares, and Zeus dashes are all bad though right? Well Demeter is ok but still pretty weak
silk hearth
yea they arent good
cunning urchin
Mistral Dash sucks. The others can be great at high heat, especially with DC2.
long escarp
Really?
fading panther
Literally Dash damage + Attack damage? I thought dash strikes have their own damage number
fading panther
On the wiki. Or am I understanding it wrong?
edgy mauve
dont know anything about dio dash
cunning urchin
Literally Dash damage + Attack damage? I thought dash strikes have their own dam...
Yes, but you get both the damage from the Dash-Strike and from your Dash effect.
silk hearth
oh dc2 that explains it
long escarp
zeus dash can be v good
It just does so little damage though. Like nothing
fading panther
Ah, ok, I think I got what you mean now
edgy mauve
It just does so little damage though. Like nothing
double strike + jolted + splitting
with ares and zeus dash its just slap more and more of those gods on it
cunning urchin
You're forgetting about how fast Drunken Dash can build god gauge.
edgy mauve
and itll become quite good
cunning urchin
Every dash applies 3 stacks of Hangover.
silk hearth
i dont think relying on ares or zeus dash is that good
long escarp
double strike + jolted + splitting
Ok so it’s good only if you’re all in on lightning bolts which means you already have lightning flourish
silk hearth
since getting more boons for ur attack/special should be better
edgy mauve
Ok so it’s good only if you’re all in on lightning bolts which means you already...
why would u take lightning flourish?
huh?
cunning urchin
Blade Dash can be amazing for DPS with just 1-2 poms or do practically nothing depending on the aspect you're using.
long escarp
why would u take lightning flourish?
Because it’s an actual good boon that uses lightning strikes. You use Zeus dash as your only lightning bolt output and then pick multiple support boons for it?
cunning urchin
since getting more boons for ur attack/special should be better
You only get one boon in your Attack and Special slot, though.
silk hearth
You only get one boon in your Attack and Special slot, though.
same thing with dash 
edgy mauve
Because it’s an actual good boon that uses lightning strikes. You use Zeus dash ...
lightning flourish very much depends on ur aspect
cunning urchin
Thunder Flourish.
silk hearth
rama and zeus like lightning flourish
long escarp
lightning flourish very much depends on ur aspect
But thunder dash is always bad if you’re building to specifically support it then you’d better have a more powerful bolt output
edgy mauve
But thunder dash is always bad <:dusa:522248771409543188> if you’re building to ...
so build for it with more zeus when u find that zeus
im not saying that u completely neglect ur attack or special when doing this
edgy mauve
im saying that thunder dash + more zeus is good
silk hearth
he did rama with sniper shot too
edgy mauve
not to completely spec into thunder dash and go like unga bunga no attack dash%
unless ur doing unga bunga no attack dash%
cunning urchin
same thing with dash <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Oh I get what you were saying now. But sometimes you don't get the choice, might as well build on it.
long escarp
so build for it with more zeus when u find that zeus
The only other way to create lightning bolts is Zeus special or Zeus call. I’m not gonna build around a boon that does 10 damage per dash. That’s an insane thing to do
silk hearth
Oh I get what you were saying now. But sometimes you don't get the choice, might...
ye definitely
cunning urchin
Especially high heat where you just take any boon you can find.
edgy mauve
The only other way to create lightning bolts is Zeus special or Zeus call. I’m n...
its not gonna do 10 damage per dash
its jolted + ds + splitting
long escarp
Even with all of the support, thunder dash isn’t very strong. Definitely not strong enough to focus on that heavily
silk hearth
yea i agree with pancake
edgy mauve
aight
long escarp
Thank you
cunning urchin
I mean if you have Thunder Dash at high heat, you'll take more boons from him if you see him.
Thunder Dash is better than no Dash.
silk hearth
yea
silk hearth
with thunder dash i think u can get smouldering too
edgy mauve
yeah
silk hearth
in that case its more of a duo boon filler
long escarp
It’s just like saying Ares dash is good with all of the right support. If you are getting that support, then you’re have to have a better way to make blade rifts. There the boon can be fine, but outside that it’s still bad
supple igloo
Wow this conversation is still goin on
cunning urchin
Blade Dash is good without t2 boons, though.
edgy mauve
It’s just like saying Ares dash is good with all of the right support. If you ar...
ares dash is fine with the support
ares dash T2 plus vicious cycle is p decent/good no?
long escarp
ares dash T2 plus vicious cycle is p decent/good no?
Did I not literally say this
fading panther
Well, that is true with most boons from all the gods, to be fair
silk hearth
i have no experience with dc2 anyway lol
cunning urchin
It's good without DC2, too. Just because Tidal Dash exists doesn't mean every other dash is "bad".
supple igloo
yeep
silk hearth
okay bye people
supple igloo
Bai
cunning urchin
okay bye people
Farewell.
long escarp
I can’t really speak for high high heat. When I talk about boon quality, I’m generally speaking about the 20-32 heat range, which is where I usually play atm
cunning urchin
But you're calling anything "bad" that you don't consider optimal DPS, pretty much.
That's how it's coming across.
supple igloo
^
long escarp
That’s fair
I don’t think it’s never worth taking, only that I’m usually disappointed by it when I have it, and often reroll to avoid taking it
edgy mauve
its 3 am i should probably go to bed
supple igloo
If you look at very high heat runs, for example retrash's runs they're willing to use combinations of boons that you wouldn't see anywhere else and make it work
cunning urchin
You're probably wasting rerolls doing that even if you're going for optimal DPS builds.
supple igloo
Part of the reason why this game is so good is that no matter what heat you are if you practice enough you can make the most out of the situation you are in
long escarp
I want to try out Poseidon sword with Lightning Phalanx
I always do True Shot but apparently LP is really good
supple igloo
Riposte LP in elysium is 
edgy mauve
LP is so gud in styx
long escarp
What other gods should I go for?
supple igloo
Zeus for the duo
cunning urchin
A lot of people dismiss Retrash's builds as "weird" and "this shouldn't work" because they're not meta instead of accepting the build is good and figuring out what makes it good.
supple igloo
And that
edgy mauve
when doing LP ur hoping for a good god pool imo
cunning urchin
Yet Retrash has the most high heat WRs, often with builds that people think are "bad".
long escarp
poseidon arty
Going for a specific 4 gods is pretty absurd
supple igloo
Why?
long escarp
A lot of people dismiss Retrash's builds as "weird" and "this shouldn't work" be...
I’d imagine that once you have AP on, you gotta learn to improvise
supple igloo
Lol
cunning urchin
It's not that absurd, really. If you see Poseidon or Lady Artemis in Tartarus, you can force the other one later on.
long escarp
Why?
If I get an unwanted god in Tartarus (which will happen most of the time), my only options are to give up on at least one of my 4 gods, or to have a 5 god pool. Also, how tf can I expect to see all of those without using a god keepsake for Elysium
edgy mauve
using a god keepsake in ely isnt that tight and neither is a 5 god pool
long escarp
Get a 5 god pool then.
But then it’s way harder to get Lightning Phalanx, which the build literally needs
fading panther
God keepsake on Elysium isn’t that bad though, I do it sometime when I need it
edgy mauve
so go for lightning phalanx first?
supple igloo
If theres something these conversations have put the light, its that you really need to open your mind and ask yourself why the things you deem absurd and bad are that way
3 out of 4 gods are way more than enough to make a build work
5 pool is not the end of the world
long escarp
No this is obviously possible if you do 10 runs but I want something consistent
fading panther
Only the Styx keepsake the one that matters the most, really
cunning urchin
5 god pools are pretty common in Cast builds.
supple igloo
Yep
supple igloo
God keepsake on Elysium isn’t that bad though, I do it sometime when I need it
Depends on heat
long escarp
Going for two duos that don’t share a god in common is something that has backfired on me extremely often and only worked out every once in a while
edgy mauve
nothing is going to work everytime
long escarp
nothing is going to work everytime
Well my 76 win streak would prefer the highest consistency strategy, not the one with the highest potential
supple igloo
Hera lover over here was telling you the optimal build, not the necessary build you do bot need mirage shot and zeus athena duo to make this build work
edgy mauve
long escarp
Yeah that would definitely be the optimal build. But if I want to win most of my runs, what’s the build I should go for?
supple igloo
edgy mauve
😬
long escarp
Once I hit 100 wins I’ll let the streak die I think
cunning urchin
Snow Burst is great in any Cast build.
silk hearth
my highest streak is 5 btw :p
edgy mauve
if u want a consistent weapon play hera
cunning urchin
Epic Shot or any Grasp is always great.
long escarp
if u want a consistent weapon play hera
I do 
edgy mauve
or eris
cunning urchin
ME and Deadly Reversal are potentially available.
long escarp
I know how to be consistent obviously
supple igloo
Achilles tidal dash start is a free win at no heat if you're just doing streaks
cunning urchin
Phalanx Shot start on Poseidon is perfectly fine for consistency.
long escarp
I’m looking for a good consistent plan for Lightning Phalanx Poseidon that’s all
cunning urchin
If you throw the run, it's not because you started Phalanx Shot.
fading nymph
I mean what cant consistantly clear zero heat
edgy mauve
I mean what cant consistantly clear zero heat
gilgamesh
cunning urchin
Well, the most important part of the build is getting a lot of poms on your Cast.
long escarp
Phalanx Shot start on Poseidon is perfectly fine for consistency.
Yes that’s definitely where I want to start
supple igloo
Zero hea- 
edgy mauve
cunning urchin
The rest, we just gave you a lot of options you can build into depending on what you get.
long escarp
Ok fair enough
turbid needle
phalanx shot is so good that it can carry on its own
cunning urchin
Hourglass is great in later biomes for ammo and Cast damage.
turbid needle
the rest is just extras
cunning urchin
Yup.
long escarp
phalanx shot is so good that it can carry on its own
Not at 32 heat it can’t, or at least not in my hands
turbid needle
well then maybe you need to improve to streak?
long escarp
If I really only cared about the streak, I’d just run my favorite aspects on 0 heat all day
That’s not what I’m about
cunning urchin
But that's a you problem, not a problem with the Cast.
long escarp
I just want to get more aspects to 32 heat without needing to reset a lot
supple igloo
Can't expect good advice when ur being cryptic
If ur streaking 32 first and foremost your pact is the most important thing
cunning urchin
Then practice more.
That's the #1 thing if you want consistency at 32.
You're not losing one of your runs to RNG at 32.
long escarp
Right now I’m looking at Poseidon sword. I use true shot but I heard LP might be better. That intrigued me, so I am now looking into it. I will work my way up to 32 heat with it and see if it’s strong enough for me
supple igloo
Theres only so much you can do with knowledge
cunning urchin
If you have to reset to keep your streak, you made mistakes somewhere.
True Shot is probably the worst Cast you can run on Poseidon tbh.
edgy mauve
true shot has terrible AOE and bad pom scaling
supple igloo
Lol
long escarp
Is it really? That can’t be right
cunning urchin
Just switching to Phalanx Shot alone should help a lot.
edgy mauve
doesnt have any good duo's for it
long escarp
Don’t they literally use it in speedruns?
supple igloo
No
turbid needle
true shot is awful yes
long escarp
Wow
edgy mauve
that was probably when mirage shot was just a regular boon
long escarp
Now I’m really learning something now
long escarp
that was probably when mirage shot was just a regular boon
Lmao no it was not quite that old
turbid needle
also speedruns are not the best reference for the consistency you want. they are high rollers
cunning urchin
No, that was when Mirage Shot was Double Shot, Fully Loaded was +3 and a lot easier to get, and, most importantly, it was routed speedruns that had a bunch of Cast damage from Master Chaos to benefit from all that crit damage.
long escarp
I liked true shot because it opened up exit wounds and PP to Fully Loaded, plus all you needed was one Poseidon boon for mirage shot
edgy mauve
nothing can save true shot imo
cunning urchin
Exit Wounds only matters for boss fights in a decent Poseidon Aspect build.
long escarp
But ok I’m hearing it’s terrible so I won’t use it anymore lmao
supple igloo
Lol
cunning urchin
Because everything else should be dead from your Casts alone, and then you can pick up your Casts again immediately.
turbid needle
imo neither fully loaded or mirage matter when your base cast is worth nothing
yes
long escarp
What’s the fastest sword build then?
supple igloo
Nemmy ME or heart rend
edgy mauve
ME is the fastest
supple igloo
I think
edgy mauve
an alternate is Splash dash start into arty attack
edgy mauve
but arty attack
supple igloo
supple igloo
🥇 
fading nymph
Heratic gang rise up
long escarp
Just rolled twice on my very first boon for Phalanx shot lmao maybe I’ll just reset, try another build for this win, then come back to this plan
cunning urchin
Is it still a streak if you reset?
supple igloo
cunning urchin
Just take Divine Dash and pick up any decent Cast you find in Tartarus and build on that.
cunning urchin
Why not both?
edgy mauve
9 heat is high heat Kappa
supple igloo
Such heat much hard
edgy mauve
FO2 + EM2 much hard yes yes
supple igloo
I'll warm up to some achilles speedruns
I was listening to unseen ones before loggin out last night and now first thing today it blows my ears out
Lmao
Oh btw I got a 0.83 boon grab was that good
I remember u said that was cool lol
edgy mauve
edgy mauve
I remember u said that was cool lol
me?
fading nymph
pog
edgy mauve
fading nymph
I wonder what the wr is though
edgy mauve
probably .6x
edgy mauve
very pog indeed
lucid oar
I think the wr is 0.5x. But the convo has moved on 
rugged ginkgo
So yesterday i finally unlocked the Lucifer aspect(even though i have 120 esc attempts xD)
Any recommendation for a fun run with lucifer?
edgy mauve
SUPERSOAKER
rugged ginkgo
?
edgy mauve
poseidon attack zeus cast or call
u get sea storm
and start blasting
jolted is also gud
dstrike for zeus call if u can nab it
SUPERSOAKERRRRRRRRRRRRR
cunning urchin
I think the wr is 0.5x. But the convo has moved on <:shadegrief:5204481873586421...
tl;dr
lucid oar
I tried to, but there were like 300 messages lol
cunning urchin
m saying your message was too long, I didn't read it.
steady pebble
hey guys i have 8 escapes and im not so sure what to build anymore
i have all the aspects that arent hidden
any fun builds i should check out?
crimson ether
Yea I mean it’s really personal preference, just find what works for you
When I was newer I always used the shield and divine dash (my favorites still even now). It’s definitely the easiest way to go imo
steady pebble
i really like bow and gloves
cunning urchin
Some fun builds for Malphon that are decent: #h1-builds-and-combat message
crimson ether
I personally don’t like the bow because of how much it struggles against shielded enemies in Elysium but Malphon is really fun
cunning urchin
Says Demeter Aspect but really works for all the Malphon aspects.
steady pebble
oki i will try it out
crimson ether
I personally don’t like the bow because of how much it struggles against shielde...
Speaking of, what’s a good way to get around this? I’ve been trying to get a clear with the Rama bow but the greatshields, theseus, and poison from vermin/satyrs are huge problems for it
supple igloo
Athena dash
Invincible calls
And practice
Twin shot or triple should shotgun theseus when hes calling for the god/dess
foggy prawn
cunning urchin
Run up to bait their melee attack, empty-dash behind them, do a Dash-Strike.
Also, all the Greatshields face East when they spawn.
With Rama if you've tagged them with your Special, they'll take Shared Suffering damage from any enemy that you hit with your Attack.
You can also dash behind them for a Dash-Strike if they whiffed their ranged attack.
Doesn't even have to be behind them directly. Just like to the side and a little bit behind them works just fine.
You can also hit them just as they raise their shield for an Attack.
But that's admittedly harder to do, especially timing it perfectly with a Power Shot.
crimson ether
What’s the best boons to use with it?
cunning urchin
Rama?
crimson ether
Yea
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike on Attack.
Hangover, Doom, or Lightning on Special.
crimson ether
I was thinking Poseidon attack but that makes sense yea
cunning urchin
No.
Tempest Strike has the worst damage of any % boons, and terrible pom and rarity scaling as a result.
crimson ether
Ah
cunning urchin
And the knockback doesn't spread with Shared Suffering, so there's no point in that, either.
maiden haven
So uh
Any recommendation for 32 Heat Eris? I just got through one with a Zeus & Call Dodge build and it was ROUGH
cunning urchin
There's a pin in #h1-high-heat-strategies that should help.
maiden haven
royal needle
what keepsakes should i be taking in asphodel for eris?
cunning urchin
If you have Tidal Dash already, Arrowhead for Deadly Flourish.
royal needle
right now i have zeus atttack, aphro special and dio call
royal needle
and those dont count time
cunning urchin
Yeah.
maiden haven
Wait, so does that mean?
You turn off TD for speedruns?
cunning urchin
And get poms on your Tidal Dash, and try to get Static Discharge and Smoldering Air.
cunning urchin
Wait, so does that mean?
You turn off TD for speedruns?
Yeah. TD is only on for RTA speedruns.
Or for high heat speedruns.
royal needle
already have static. should i be pushing for zeus legendary?
cunning urchin
You'll need Storm Lightning to unlock Splitting Bolt.
Yes.
And Storm Lightning is just okay.
royal needle
Just got smoldering going into lernie
cunning urchin
Nice.
royal needle
What keepsake for elysium? There's nothing in the well and I already have all the boons i need except Zeus's. Should I just take the pom for more power?
cunning urchin
Hourglass.
proven osprey
Acorn if scared of dying
proven osprey
Oh you zooming
cunning urchin
Oh wait you used Signet already nvm.
Hourglass is good, yeah.
Coin Purse can be decent, too.
languid forum
isnt tooth better than acorn tho
cunning urchin
Pom Bloss actually a legit choice.
cunning urchin
No. Acorn is best for boss fights for survivability. If it wasn't, it would be useless.
And in speedruns, you're generally not worried about dying, anyway.
maiden haven
I need to remember to bring Acorn. I keep taking Tooth.
cunning urchin
Acorn keeps your HP at max for longer, which means more uptime for High Confidence.
Lucky Tooth is great for EM4.
proven osprey
Tooth is nice too
maiden haven
cunning urchin
Because the summons can often shred your Acorn with low damage hits.
proven osprey
It really depends on your build and heat
cunning urchin
Lucky Tooth is probably the best pick in Elysium if you're somehow down to 0 DDs when you get there.
royal needle
is Aphro leg good or bad?
proven osprey
Acorn for EM4 is fine with beowulf
cunning urchin
It's great.
proven osprey
Otherwise tooth. If you have DDs from Athena, you can go for the broken spearpoint. Its value is better as you have more hp
cunning urchin
Probably won't proc much, though, unless you have Cluster Bomb.
proven osprey
Very nice for Styx and also lifesaver vs dad
maiden haven
Wait, more HP for Spearpoint? So, for something like Arthur?
proven osprey
Nah
I'm talking about something near 300
The point is being able to take chip damage from summons and then tank a big hit from dad
Or even preventing you from getting comboed
proven osprey
I said it's good with hp because otherwise you can't take much so you'd just go tooth
cunning urchin
Sure.
crimson ether
I almost always do coin purse, then god keepstake for something i need for my build if I don’t have it yet, then hades call, then lucky tooth
proven osprey
It's a good start honestly, Retrash special
It's just less powerful than a god keepsake when you have a mirror and no approval process
Because you're really free to build anything
@round lantern I saw you message on the test branch so I allow myself to ping you here. :dusa-1:
Seeded runs as you talked about are more routed runs. It's controlling pretty much everything that happens in the course of the run. It's hard and tedious to make an relies on some inputs to increment RNG (I explained it as quick as possible).
What you can do however, is seeding a specific starting boon or hammer with Ellomenop's mod. You can check the Speedrun discord for more details
(just to tell that completely seeded (=routed) won't happen)
round lantern
<@620130063958016060> I saw you message on the test branch so I allow myself to ...
Thanks for the insight! That makes sense. I’ll check out the mod you mentioned though. Appreciate it.
languid forum
is coin purse ever useful? if so when
lucid oar
Well, when you need money. Say there is something really good in the well, and you cant afford it
proven osprey
When your god pool is complete and you want more stuff I would say
And you don't need safety
Also what rmacinty said yeah
You can also start with it and see what the game has to offer, it's nice too
lucid oar
Yeah, similar to the pom blossom
turbid needle
what would you pick for beowulf, drunken flourish or drunken dash
turbid needle
eh too late
i picked dash but i abandoned the playthrough now
it sucked
supple igloo
Aw rips
turbid needle
it was just one of those runs with terrible rng that give you no boons
sterile fiber
32 heat fists, got 2-sack, thought "hmm I'm low on health, maybe take another room to refresh an SD".....
Died. Never again.
gloomy viper
@sterile fiber im going with damage control rn
strange lark
You should use tight deadline
lucid oar
What time do you usually clear in
gloomy viper
i think my best was 22 and my worst was 30
lucid oar
Tight deadline 1 should make 0 difference
gloomy viper
its 9 min per floor right?
sterile fiber
Ye
lucid oar
Yes, so 36 mins total
gloomy viper
wow ok that is realy easy
lucid oar
Assuming you never go overtime
Yeah it's really easy on its own, but when you start combining tight deadline with jury summons, damage control and calesthenics program it gets tough
gloomy viper
that sounds very verycomplicated
royal needle
basically its hard to go fast once enemies have more health and there are more enemies
gloomy viper
oh lmao
lone jetty
My training day recommendation is to put Demeter attack on the Zag Rail. You’ll quickly get to max stacks of Chill but probably not kill stuff quickly and the rail doesn’t stun-lock baddies, so you’ve gotta learn to dodge. Which will be easier to do when they’re chilled.
turbid needle
Which hidden aspects should I go for next? I already have ||Rama/Arthur/Guanyu||
proper furnace
beowulf is fun
turbid needle
Which one is the best hidden aspect iyo?
lone jetty
My training day recommendation is to put Demeter attack on the Zag Rail. You’ll ...
Once you can dodge things that are chilled reliably, try again without Demeter. Once you’re good without Demeter, turn on Forced Overtime 
crimson ether
Which one is the best hidden aspect iyo?
Beowulf is my favorite of the ones you don’t have yet by far, but if you don’t like a slow/clunky play style go for Gilgamesh.
solid sable
Beowulf is my favorite of the ones you don’t have yet by far, but if you don’t l...
gilgamesh sucks though
crimson ether
It’s not for everyone but it’s definitely not objectively bad
Maim increases damage of everything, including calls and stacks with similar effects like doom so if you’re good enough to avoid getting hit by enemies with maim it’s very strong
Plus it provides a huge mobility bonus with the triple dash
silk hearth
its pretty bad according to nyaanyaa
boreal prism
The dashes are shorter, though, so it mostly just makes dash boons better
I think gilg is cool and fun, but it's a bit underwhelming for a hidden aspect
cunning urchin
It's important to keep in mind that "bad" in Hades still means it's perfectly viable for 40+ Heat, just a lot harder than other aspects.
cunning urchin
any tips to git gud
solid sable
It's important to keep in mind that "bad" in Hades still means it's perfectly vi...
why subject yourself to such pain though
solid sable
https://youtu.be/SlCRfTmBSGs
Video unavailable?
cunning urchin
Oh, it is.
Here it is. https://youtu.be/ZwM2kMKgtdU
That's what you gotta do.
And if you do that, you get better.
cunning urchin
why subject yourself to such pain though
Some people enjoy the aspect a lot, nothing wrong with that at all.
sterile fiber
in today's episode of low heat AP2 adventures: 4/4 poms picked Curse of Vengeance, of all things. No I have nothing that synergizes with it.
cunning urchin
At least the pom scaling on it is excellent.
long escarp
Is Lightning Strike the best Lucifer build?
solid sable
Is Lightning Strike the best Lucifer build?
Zeus and Aphro are great for lucifer, imo
slim ice
Is Lightning Strike the best Lucifer build?
Most likely
I think artemis also would be good especially if you take support fire
long escarp
Artemis makes sense but Aphro does not
slim ice
Yeah
long escarp
Why would aphro be even close?
long escarp
Support Fire + Lightning Strike would be so absurd lmao
There’s no doubt the most fun is Poseidon
slim ice
long escarp
Water gun is amazing
slim ice
Hmmm lucifer + poseidon
long escarp
Not really that good but definitely hilarious
slim ice
You can call it water gun or
long escarp
Yeah
slim ice
The river
long escarp
Or super soaker
Throw in some incredible Poseidon tier 2s and you will be annihilating Styx boss rooms in seconds
Poseidon has some of the best t2 boons in the game imo
Mainly breaking wave
boreal prism
poseidon is cool on lucifer because the wallslams proc a LOT
cunning urchin
@sterile maple this might help you speed things up. https://youtu.be/z3Mmoo4oTKU
kind yew
What's the build for guan yu spear?
sterile maple
cunning urchin
What's the build for guan yu spear?
I wrote some tips for Guan Yu here. #h1-discussion message
kind yew
Thanks! 
arctic oyster
Does anybody know any good builds for aspect of achillies
cunning urchin
That's the optimal strat for DPS, but it requires that you get Flurry Jab first hammer. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eAOEli9KqJOVyPD7U-6D1o1yZx1tDMQWLDcMJr8G84E/edit?usp=sharing
Which speedrunners will reset for.
Without Flurry Jab, you'll want to lean more into your Cast instead.
As for Cast builds... you can do something good with all of the Casts.
Tidal Dash is still a great start either way, and then you either pick up a decent Cast in Tartarus or Flurry Jab (or both) and build on what you have.
You'll want to use Infernal Soul for flexibility because that works great with all Casts. Stygian works well only with non-lodging Casts, and only really if you get more bloodstones from Master Chaos or from Wells of Charon—although it can be amazing you get that.
cunning urchin
Nyaanyaa's Cast Build Guide
First off, look at what tier 2 and Duo/Legendary exist for your Cast and build towards them.
You want as many poms as you can get on your Cast. For that, it's often good to take boons that can't be pommed because that gives you a better chance to be able to pom your Cast. Sweet Nectar can do a lot of work here. Pom Blossom start is fun for early poms. An early Premium Vintage can be a free pom.
By far the best pick-ups are +1 ammo and Cast damage from Master Chaos and Wells of Charon. The Bone Hourglass can be amazing for that, especially if you see those items in the Well between biomes. If you see a Light of Ixion in the Well, the Cosmic Egg can help you get a high rarity Shot from Master Chaos.
Fully Loaded can get you +2 Casts but is usually too much of a commitment to specifically go for, but if you see the opportunity to build towards it, take it. Some other ways to get bonus Cast damage are Urge to Kill and Parting Shot (technically not Cast damage, but it allows your Casts to backstab and adds +25% bonus backstab damage only to your Casts); those two are fine pick-ups but they're not very high priority. Parting Shot can be very powerful, though, if you get bonus backstab damage from somewhere.
Universally good: Snow Burst is amazing. Mirage Shot is a great option that you can build into if you have at least one out of Poseidon or Lady Artemis in your pool when you exit Tartarus. Lightning Rod is great. Exit Wound is a lot weaker than you'd think.
Lord Hermes: Quick Reload, Rush Delivery, Greater Recall, Bad News.
Global damage: Sweet Surrender, Rush Delivery (ideally + Hyper Sprint), Bad Influence (requires a good way to spread Hangover), Billowing Strength (ideally + Smoldering Air), Strong Drink (better early on), Hades' Aid (if you can quickly build god gauge), Ravenous Will, and Bad News (Stygian only). Pressure Points can also do some work by giving global crit chance, especially if you also have Hunter's Mark.
@arctic oyster there, that should help for a general idea on how to do Cast builds with Achilles (or any aspect). 
maiden haven
Recommendations for Aspect of Hades?
lucid oar
Go for either exploding launcher or serrated point. If serrated, go deadly strike. If exploding, go heartbreak/deadly flourish. Alternatively you could just use merciful end
And if you get exploding launcher, charged skewer is an amazing second hammer
lucid oar
Yes
lucid oar
No problem
supple igloo
U van also always ME
maiden haven
ME?
lucid oar
Merciful end
supple igloo
merciful end ares athena duo boon
maiden haven
What are the requirements for that?
supple igloo
Athena special and ares attack
lucid oar
Ares attack/Athena special or vice versa
supple igloo
But u want to get athena dash to make the most of it after u get her special first
cunning urchin
If you don't see Serrated Point or Exploding Launcher first hammer, make sure you pick up a decent Cast for Cast > Dash-Strike x2 combos.
languid forum
oh my god
i didnt know athena special was required for ME
ive been trying to do ME with zag fists for so long
and just assumed it'd work with ares attack and divine dash
edgy mauve
divine dash used to be a prereq and then they nerfed it out of a prereq
sage yarrow
Okay so how do I learn to acknowledge casts as an active part of my existence because rn I'm just kinda not using them at all
sage yarrow
I mostly just tolerate them then tho :( like i don't actually know how to use them effectively
It feels like i am making a target out of myself instead of doing additional damage
cunning urchin
Lucky for you, I wrote a Cast Build Guide just a couple hours ago if you scroll up just a little bit... or follow this link. #h1-builds-and-combat message
edgy mauve
make a conscious effort to cast in bosses for boiling blood
cunning urchin
I think doing some Cast builds will help you a lot with mixing in your Casts more in other builds.
Because you'll have a lot more experience with the Casts and will better understand when it's worth picking up one because you can actually do something decent with it.
sage yarrow
Oke thx 
Time to burn through this
Hades is legit the only game that make me want to try hard aspects of it
long escarp
Best Hestia build? I usually did Aphro attack and whatever special I ended up with
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Tidal Dash, and lots of Attack/Dash-Strike boons from Master Chaos.
long escarp
Ok thank you!
cunning urchin
Smoldering Air is amazing, too.
long escarp
As always
cunning urchin
Sigil is pretty bad on it because you build god gauge so slow, so don't bother with that.
You'll want Fiery Presence.
long escarp
Yeah just like with Guan Yu
cunning urchin
Except Hestia is way better than Guan Yu.
long escarp
Yep
cunning urchin
Ricochet Fire is #1 until Hades, pretty much. Still nice vs Hades, though. Cluster Rockets are amazing, of course. Piercing is a decent pick-up. Targeting System pretty good, too. Don't care much at all for Triple Bomb, you don't wanna waste time shooting three bombs because you wanna go back to shooting your Attack, that does more damage.
Explosive Fire is okay to settle on second hammer if you didn't get a good Attack hammer yet, but it's not amazing.
Hazard Bomb also really really good.
Especially if you get any Flourish from Master Chaos.
long escarp
Ok thanks!
cunning urchin
For Hazard Bomb, by the way, one thing I notice a lot of players do is they wait for the Hazard Bomb to drop before they shoot their next one.
You don't have to wait that long.
long escarp
Yeah
cunning urchin
It drops slower than your normal Bomb, but the cooldown for your Special doesn't change.
Ricochet + Hazard Bomb imo is the best combo you can get on Hestia. Cluster Rockets being second best.
Maybe @queen cape would put Cluster Rockets first? Either way, can't go wrong with those combos.
Best start is pretty much either 
for Heartbreak Strike or Conch Shell for Tidal Dash.
Tidal Dash definitely if you're speedrunning.
Hestia + Shattered Shackle is also pretty much the most AP2-proof combo in the game if you're doing higher heats. You just gotta not get unlucky and get a Tempest Strike or something.
queen cape
cluster rockets is the most damage, but rocket on its own is very good but difficult to use with hestia, more button/cooldown management
ricochet/piercing + hazard bomb is a solid combo
cluster on its own is great
i had a fun eris run last night with epic swift flourish hazard bomb, delta chamber for i frames, and + 3 dashes
cunning urchin
AP1 and Shackle can be a good combo to get 2 Heat, and it's easy to get a decent Attack along the way.
Did you verify in a run that Delta Chamber gives i-frames and it wasn't just a Codex Mod thing?
It was Delta Chamber + Dash-Strike, right?
but rocket on its own is very good but difficult to use with hestia, more button/cooldown management
How so? You just shoot rockets every other reload.
Hmmm. I guess that can take some practice.
Lots of button presses to coordinate while also moving around and stuff.
queen cape
yeah when you're already dealing with dash cancelling reloads, weaving in casts,
etc etc
and yeah delta is i frames
cunning urchin
I totally forgot about it until you mentioned it again. I don't play rail much.
queen cape
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1100172738?t=01h07m08s
I don't do a great job of it in this fight, but you can see some times where i'm dash striking around in the blast and dont get hit
cunning urchin
There's still a bit of optimization for me I can learn here and there with Hestia, but it's just kind of an aspect for me I can not play for months and pick up again and still do just as well with.
queen cape
yeah it's a super strong high heat and speedrunning aspect
getting the extra juice out of it for speed is tough though
cunning urchin
I think I practically never even pressed Special until boonless mirrorless 32 because there was just no need for it lol.
Oh wait no I used Targeting System sometimes for the debuff.
There were like... 4 Hestia players in Early Access lol.
queen cape
hazard is just fun
cunning urchin
Wriste13, bablo who played everything, FoxHope, and me.
queen cape
i like hestia because of pressing lots of buttons
cunning urchin
I think bablo was the first to actually spam Special more like we do now. Or maybe he didn't start that until later. I'd have to go back and watch.
We just did Attack > Reload forever lol.
And like figuring out how dash cancels worked and stuff.
It's kind of wild to me sometimes how far we've come with community knowledge.
And PS/Xbox release is gonna bring in even more players.
queen cape
pc gamepass too
cunning urchin
Right.
gaunt ivy
cunning urchin
You'd want HL5 LC4 anyway at 32.
Either that or LC4 FO2. And don't mix EM3 with FO2 on Malphon at 32.
Probably wanna move that to #h1-high-heat-strategies, though.
languid forum
i got ME and yes it was very powerful
crimson ether
I need to pick a chaos boon for Beowulf. Would +35% cast damage or +1 cast be better?
lucid oar
+1 cast
cunning urchin
For +1 ammo:
(current_bonus_dmg + 1) /
current_max_ammo```So basically.
If you have no bonus damage yet for your Cast (including global bnnus damage) and only the 3 ammo from Infernal Soul, then:
(0 + 1) / 3 = 1/3 = 33%
So one extra Cast is worth about as much as +33% Cast damage.
But you'll have some bonus damage from at least Family Favorite, usually +25% by the end of the run, so:
(25% + 1) / 3 = 1.25/3 = 42%
So +1 ammo ends up being worth about +42% in a typical run. Which is more than +35%. And more ammo also means more damage from Snow Burst if you have that.
But +35% can mean you need fewer Casts to one-shot enemies.
So they're honestly pretty even.
+1 ammo scales better if you get any more bonus damage for your Casts later on.
fading nymph
This was the second reroll for sea storm on a super soaker build
Pain
the first selection had just mirage
cunning urchin
What did you expect to reroll into with AP1, 2 Duo Boons unlocked, open priority slots, and probably Razor Shoals still in the pool?
Your reroll was pretty damn lucky, I would say. You actually got Tidal Dash out of it. Mirage Shot with no rerolls would have been the best pick, though.
Way better Sea Storm odds with Mirage Shot out of the pool, and you have something you can purge for 400+ for UC.
fading nymph
thats fair
crimson ether
I never really run cast builds unless I’m using Beowulf so mirage shot is never really an optimal pick for me
rustic quarry
What did you expect to reroll into with AP1, 2 Duo Boons unlocked, open priority...
what are priority slots and how do they work? If I had to guess they're the attack/special/cast slots?
proper furnace
@rustic quarry also dash but yeah
rustic quarry
ah ok
and if you have them blank, i imagine the game will try and fill them for you
proper furnace
check the game i replied to, but ye
static karma
I find that AP1 is a lot less painful when I pretend the crossed out option doesn’t exist, I close my eyes until I hear the sound of boons being crossed out so I don’t see the crossed out animation
shut mortar
You'd want HL5 LC4 anyway at 32.
I do hl0 at 32 lmao
shut mortar
I find that AP1 is a lot less painful when I pretend the crossed out option does...
lol I should do that
lone jetty
Yeah don’t even look at the crossed-out one. Save the angst
mighty ermine
I find that AP1 is a lot less painful when I pretend the crossed out option does...
this works until you get crossed out duos/legendaries which make a very obvious sound
gotta close your eyes and mute the game
silk hearth
vague hearth
Ok so if I wanted to make a rama machine gun build which special boon would be the best choice
I'm gonna try and get a run with heroic faster special
AKA try to get to eurydice with only epic special speed and one other boon
untold vortex
All in zeus can be fun for a machine gun rama build
Hangover might also be fun (not sure though)
untold vortex
Nice ^_^
vague hearth
Might go for demeter and get arctic blast
static karma
this works until you get crossed out duos/legendaries which make a very obvious ...
Approval process really is anti-fun
I do feel like AP1 feels worse than AP2
even though AP2 is objectively worse
AP1 just feels more like a kick in the teeth when it screws you
sterile fiber
wdym AP2 is the most fun (at low/mid heat that is), no agonizing over choices
but yeah AP1 is worse because you still need to choose
fading nymph
AP2 you don’t expect anything good
AP1 you can expect a half decent build so it hurts more to get denied something good
heavy verge
What gods do you guys suggest for Beowulf?
fading nymph
Either Poseidon Aphro or Dio. Flood flare has a big aoe and you can get mirage more easily which is really good because for some reason on Beo it doubles your damage. Passion flare has more damage but smaller area and is probably the most used. Trippy Flare has big aoe and damage and festive fog which is good but you need to use Stygian soul because waiting for the fog to go away with infernal takes too long. You really need an extra cast from chaos for it. Synth feast and Ice wine are also pretty good duos.
heavy verge
I went with Artemis, thought crit was a good base choice lol
This was before u responded
How do ppl charge Beowulf without doing the basic attack first 
Or maybe they do it so fast I dont see it lol
fading nymph
You have to attack
You can get the sudden rush hammer though
You also don’t need to charge all the way
mighty ermine
You're also usually dash-striking to initiate the rush instead of attacking regularly
heavy verge
This is rough, I am not good with this weapon lol
heavy verge
You're also usually dash-striking to initiate the rush instead of attacking regu...
OMG TY
fading nymph
Is dash striking faster?
heavy verge
so much better
mighty ermine
Much faster yeah, and keeps you mobile
heavy verge
Much faster yeah, and keeps you mobile
That one comment made my current run less of a pain LMAO, now I love this shield xD
fading panther
The day I learned how to dash strike was the day I got my first clear
Dash strike is that hidden technique that beginners need to learn
turbid needle
now i feel like i'm missing something, isn't dash strike a very basic move
supple igloo
Trivial but just as easily looked over
fading panther
True, most beginners I found don’t use dash strike often. It’s like it’s considered like a high level technique meant for high heat plays, when it’s actually easy to learn and incorporate into your gameplay
supple igloo
Spear moment
silk hearth
bow moment
sage yarrow
Draining cutter, winter harvest and frost flourish is the dumbest combo i have yet put myself into
Because draining cutter just. Doesn't get ANY draining done
jovial fulcrum
business as usual
maiden haven
So, Antos hits two enemies?
lone jetty
Or one, twice
cunning urchin
Yup.
maiden haven
royal bay
Hello, can anyone recommend the best cast that would pair well with the Beowulf shield?
raw blade
royal bay
thanks
acoustic vale
Tidal dash is very good with gilgamesh
cunning urchin
Tidal Dash is very good.
sterile fiber
@inland mural congrats on the first clear, through try not to have more than 1 source of hangover since they'll override each other iirc
inland mural
<@122890537933078529> congrats on the first clear, through try not to have more ...
Good to know! I'm actually planning on starting a normal mode file
I realized I got the pleasure of beating hell mode on my first playthrough,
but now a 5 heat minimum is not exactly sustainable for me in terms of progressing the story
sterile fiber
yeah for gun, put hangover on the regular attack since you can easily stack it 5 times on one enemy
that's fair
inland mural
yeah for gun, put hangover on the regular attack since you can easily stack it 5...
That was the plan
But I didn't know if the special did anything different so nice to know I can improve the build there
sterile fiber
It's good to have 2 files anyway esp if you want to do mid/high heat eventually, then you have some flexibility
cunning urchin
I realized I got the pleasure of beating hell mode on my first playthrough,
but...
5 Heat vs 0 Heat will be practically no difference soon enough.
sterile fiber
I started with normal mode, then made a hell mode file after I got the end credits, and it was fun seeing how much faster I could go when I know what I'm doing
inland mural
5 Heat vs 0 Heat will be practically no difference soon enough.
My issue is that I missed out on 4 heat worth of bounties
sterile fiber
You won't, the bounties cap at 25 heat on hell mode
inland mural
5 Heat vs 0 Heat will be practically no difference soon enough.
Wait sorry wdym by this
cunning urchin
I mean that 5 Heat is gonna be just as free as 0 Heat soon enough.
As you get more practice, upgrade aspects, etc.
inland mural
Oh, true I really did get the hang of the final boss by the end
weary gale
gloomy viper
should i use extended jab or exploding launcher for spear?
supple igloo
Seems omega powerful?
Nope
supple igloo
should i use extended jab or exploding launcher for spear?
Which aspect
And in most cases launcher
gloomy viper
Which aspect
i forgot what it was called but its the one that gives you the punishing spin
supple igloo
Why not?
Optimal keepsakes usually go as
God
God
Skelly/acorn
Acorn
Speedrunners replace acorn and skelly w sigil or hourglass
If u are running em4 at high heat use broken spear point thing
Thats why
gloomy viper
edgy mauve
i forgot what it was called but its the one that gives you the punishing spin
exploding 100%
gloomy viper
yea i took the exploding its amazing
outer quail
that's the aspect of hades btw
cunning urchin
Coin Purse and Hourglass are just generally good keepsakes, not just for speedruns.
supple igloo
Cosmic egg bad
edgy mauve
cosmic egg is rng
supple igloo
Lol
gloomy viper
what should i use instead
supple igloo
In tart and asphodel u should focus on your build
So god keepsakes
Setting up for duos if you need them
gloomy viper
i only have on god keepsake and i got that one because of a missclick 
edgy mauve
its probably okay to take a god keepsake in ely if ur confident as well
supple igloo
i only have on god keepsake and i got that one because of a missclick <:kekw:769...
Well u better get those nectars goin
cunning urchin
Cosmic Egg is amazing for Cast builds if you see a Light of Ixion in the Well between biomes and just generally pretty decent if you see one.
supple igloo
Bc they are extremely important
gloomy viper
which god should i start with?
outer quail
god keepsakes are the best way for u to get consistent good builds
cunning urchin
Epic Chaos boons are amazing.
outer quail
start with your favs imo
supple igloo
which god should i start with?
Get them all
cunning urchin
which god should i start with?
I'll link a guide, one sec.
supple igloo
Buy some from the wretched broker
cunning urchin
@gloomy viper here's the guide. https://twitter.com/dianaii__/status/1336090118218801153
outer quail
lmao
supple igloo
Bruh moment
outer quail
what does it cost?
you just need 1 nectar per god to get their keepsake
you dont need a lot and dont need to stress about going in any order
prioritize the ones you like or the ones you see first or whatever you wanna do
cunning urchin
Honestly, when starting out don't focus too much on what builds to do and what keepsakes are best.
supple igloo
@gloomy viper u dont have to get dio or hermes
cunning urchin
Get all of the keepsakes and level them all up.
gloomy viper
oh yea cuz you can only ge tlike 2 hermes per run right?
supple igloo
No
gloomy viper
wait really?
supple igloo
Hermes keepsake isnt like other god keepsakes
cunning urchin
You'll get a lot of experience with what boons the different gods have and what the different keepsakes do and stuff.
supple igloo
And also no again u can get like 4 hermes lol
cunning urchin
Doing extra tunnels in Styx for example is usually a bad idea if you just want the win, but it's amazing for leveling up keepsakes, so I recommend doing that.
gloomy viper
ive done like 50 runs and ive only ever seen 2
supple igloo
Thats mad unlucky
strange lark
And also no again u can get like 4 hermes lol
you are guaranteed 2 hermes boons but you can get a third one in styx
strange lark
bruh
supple igloo
cunning urchin
There's a "first Lord Hermes boon" and a "second Lord Hermes boon" that can show in your runs. When you haven't picked up the first yet, it will keep reappearing as a choice. And the second will only appear if you've already picked up the first.
And there's a 50% chance for a "Styx shop Lord Hermes boon" to appear in the Styx shop. But you don't need the first or second for that one to appear.
First and second hammer work the same way.
gloomy viper
you are guaranteed 2 hermes boons but you can get a third one in styx
i don’t think i’ve ever got one in the styx shop
cunning urchin
There's a 50% chance that one is offered for 500 obols, so that's very unlikely that you haven't seen one if you've been there a few times.
It's either a boon from Lord Hermes or the Anvil.
50/50.
gloomy viper
i might have gotten it and forgeten
cunning urchin
Tbh it's easy to just gloss over it because it doesn't register when you don't have the 500 anyway.
Like I have absolutely no idea what bounty is on sale in the shop 99.999% of the time because I don't buy them anyway.
gloomy viper
lol
gloomy viper
tripple jab or serrated point?
cunning urchin
Hades Aspect? Serrated Point.
But it can take some practice to get used to the reduced dash range, so be ready for that.
Better to start early than late, though.
And triple base damage on all your Dash-Strikes is a lot.
gloomy viper
But it can take some practice to get used to the reduced dash range, so be ready...
ive used serrated point before but the last time i got a hermes boon that gave me +4 dashes
lucid oar
Triple jab can't shotgun enemies, so it isn't very useful unlike triple shot
cunning urchin
It's still quite alright for the AOE, but Serrated Point is way better.
gloomy viper
the less dash is annoying but the damage that you get makes up for more than enough
orchid yarrow
Am I the only one that thinks Zeus' boons are... weak? I always try my best to avoid him for Attack and Special, because otherwise I always have a bad time. Even with the fists.
boreal prism
zeus can be really strong if you get the t2 boons, but I guess that's true of any god
zeus has some fantastic duos too
edgy mauve
zeus is only strong with his t2's imo
solar dawn
Am I the only one that thinks Zeus' boons are... weak? I always try my best to a...
They're great on like the rail or flurry hammer upgrades
orchid yarrow
What do you mean by flurry hammer?
boreal prism
the first 3 weapons have a hammer upgrade with the word "flurry" in it
where you can hold down the button to attack fast
orchid yarrow
Okay, so it sounds like what I originally said about Zeus being weak is true, but that there are special circumstances where he's good.
edgy mauve
there arent special circumstances its just hes good when u get his t2's
orchid yarrow
Specifically flurry Deadalus weapons, and if I can amass enough Zeus boons to get some T2s.
solar dawn
It's mostly in cases where his flat damage is a big jump
solar dawn
But yeah otherwise his t1s kinda suck
orchid yarrow
What about his cast? I haven't had any luck with that.
edgy mauve
his cast is fine
turbid needle
i like zeus cast for weapons that aren't great at dealing with a lot of smaller enemies
edgy mauve
yeah its gret for that if ur not specializing in a cast build
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike on Malphon still competes with Curse of Agony for top DPS if you take just the Attack boons.
And Lightning Strike on rail is unmatched for top DPS.
You'll always want Static Discharge in any Lord Zeus builds, and put 1-2 poms in it. Static Discharge practically doubles the DPS you get from your Lightning Strike and helps a lot with Thunder Flourish, too.
His Call is the best Call in the game for DPS and is an easy route to Smoldering Air.
Billowing Strength is easy global damage in a lot of builds.
And there's the fact that boons from other gods don't really scale with anything but a few specific boons of their own for DPS, if at all, but if you have any boon from Lord Zeus, getting more boons from him is always good.
orchid yarrow
I do like the damage on his call, but it's a little risky when it doesn't make you impervious.
cunning urchin
Once you have one lightning boon from him, he has basically only good boons for you.
All Calls give i-frames on activation. That's all you need.
lucid oar
His legendary is also fantastic, probably the best legendary in the game for DPS
cunning urchin
Well, Bad News is +50% global damage.
lucid oar
Hermes is just too OP
cunning urchin
Speaking of that, all of his lightning boons scale with global damage.
Pom scaling is excellent on practically all of his boons, too.
If you have no need for core boons from him, Lightning Reflexes is just free damage, and Heaven's Vengeance completely murders Soulcatchers and Snakestones.
lucid oar
Clouded judgement is, okay?
cunning urchin
Boons like that are underrated tbh.
Doing a large number of small hits builds god gauge faster than doing the same damage in a small number of big hits.
And lighting does that.
lucid oar
I'm sure it's a decent boon, but there's basically no other Zeus boon that I'd take it over
cunning urchin
And Clouded Judgment multiplies that to make the difference in actual god gauge gain even greater.
cunning urchin
I'm sure it's a decent boon, but there's basically no other Zeus boon that I'd t...
So you're saying it's the best?