and I suppose you need 2 gods in tartarus no matter what
#h1-builds-and-combat
shut mortar
lucid oar
As times get faster and faster, all aspects need a lot to do well
Eris practically needs a pommed tidal dash before furies
Or there's no chance of you leaving Tartarus sub 1:45
Also, tounisu's old Beowulf 6:17 didn't get mirage shot until Styx, so it's clear that the main thing people need to go fast is free rooms/good enemies
cunning urchin
Mirage Shot is actually overkill on a lot of enemies.
lucid oar
Yeah you definitely notice that when playing high heat beo
Enemies just die quickly, I guess
I think that's why people switched to passion flare
vague hearth
Any good cast builds other than the Zagreus Laser Platform to try?
I'm using the poseidon sword btw
cunning urchin
"Switched to" sounds a bit wrong when Passion Flare was always meta.
Phalanx Shot and Electric Shot are both really good on Poseidon Aspect.
vague hearth
I'll keep that in mind
cunning urchin
Phalanx Shot is probably the easier build if you're still learning builds and stuff. You just get a lot of poms on your Cast and look for Lightning Phalanx.
Also any +1 ammo and bonus Cast damage you can get from Master Chaos and from Wells of Charon.
vague hearth
I'm trying to get to 16 heat
And I refuse to take off EM4
So I'm decent at builds
But in relation to a lot of the people here I'm really nothing amazing
shut mortar
"Switched to" sounds a bit wrong when Passion Flare was always meta.
think he meant flood flare
proven osprey
And I refuse to take off EM4
good
I'd go Phalanx Shot for the amazing base damage too
And keeping Merciful End as an option to supplement the damage
Electric shot was popular too. It's really good early on but it falls off in Elysium
It does not have the same scaling as lightning strike Eris to say the least
toxic siren
i can't play eris to save my life
cunning urchin
What's giving you trouble?
toxic siren
i dont play enough probably
but the reload messes me up
im so used to reloading so quick
hestia bestia
cunning urchin
It's mostly a cycle of: hold attack + mash dash > reload + special > repeat.
toxic siren
is rocket bomb better?
cunning urchin
Engage enemy waves with Special > Cast > Dash (into your explosion, ideally) > etc.
toxic siren
than the normal special?
lucid oar
Yes
cunning urchin
Rocket Bomb + Cluster Bomb is the ideal combo.
toxic siren
ok imma try again
lucid oar
You can still get good runs without either
cunning urchin
Lili wrote an extensive guide for an optimal Eris build, if you're interested. https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/
Optimal for speedruns, that is.
lucid oar
I've had PBs with Delta/targetting
cunning urchin
So, very high DPS.
lucid oar
It's funny how with many other aspects, the meta has changed a ton, but eris has stayed the same since Lili played
toxic siren
man ive seen everyone DESTROY with eris
actually i wanted to know, is it better to special yourself or the enemy and dash into it?
cunning urchin
Mostly at the enemy.
You shoot your Special where you want to go next when you need to reset your buff.
And the Special does a lot of damage, so a lot of the time, wherever you fire it will be safe because enemies will be stunned or dead.
It's actually often better to dash next to your bomb and then walk into it rather than dash into it.
Because Tidal Dash will knock everyone out of the blast zone if you're not careful.
cunning urchin
Woops. Dash next to your bomb, I meant.
Push enemies into the blast zone rather than out of it.
toxic siren
Woops. Dash next to your bomb, I meant.
yeah got what you meant
cunning urchin
But the buff is up for 4 seconds, so you only need to reset like every other Special.
lucid oar
Artemis is best, yes
cunning urchin
Deadly Flourish and Heartbreak Flourish are ideal, but any high % Special is good.
lucid oar
Yes
cunning urchin
Pressure Points doesn't really do anything until you also have Hunter's Mark.
toxic siren
oh ok special it is makes sense
cunning urchin
It was Thunder Flourish that sometimes didn't crit, Chain Lightning always did in 1.0.
toxic siren
oh good to know
cunning urchin
4% Pressure Points by itself averages out to 8% more damage overall.
Which is... fine, but not that big.
cunning urchin
Pom what?
cunning urchin
Tidal Dash almost always comes first.
lucid oar
Pom dash, pomming attack doesn't matter
cunning urchin
1-2 poms into Static Discharge.
lucid oar
Jolted is another good one to pom
cunning urchin
Lighting Strike poms only if there's nothing better, and you don't want to reroll.
Poms on your Special can be decent, too. But generally not over Tidal Dash.
Hunter's Mark poms are also great.
cunning urchin
If you see anything with high flat damage, the pom scaling is usually exceptionally good.
toxic siren
oh, oki
visual jungle
This person beat stage 3 of EM4 in 36 seconds on 19 heat my mind is blown. Look how fast they shredded that health bar https://twitter.com/oeuftroi/status/1416741163999002629?s=19
visual jungle
look at their rank I've never seen anything like it
toxic siren
If you see anything with high flat damage, the pom scaling is usually exceptiona...
do i chaos?
lucid oar
Yes
cunning urchin
For sure.
toxic siren
oki
cunning urchin
Flourish always good. Favor is nice. Affluence decent, too.
jovial fulcrum
This person beat stage 3 of EM4 in 36 seconds on 19 heat my mind is blown. Look ...
cast build lucifer? spicy
cunning urchin
This person beat stage 3 of EM4 in 36 seconds on 19 heat my mind is blown. Look ...
Tounis posted a 24s IGT PB Hades fight earlier in the speedrun server. Both phases.
@toxic siren link the screenshot from imgur or a private server here. #h1-victory-boasting isn't for posts like that. (Check pins there.) 
toxic siren
Tounis posted a 24s IGT PB Hades fight earlier in the speedrun server. Both phas...
thats possible?
cunning urchin
Yup.
toxic siren
<@!729933169305976892> link the screenshot from imgur or a private server here. ...
will do
jovial fulcrum
The than summon is interesting
havent seen it used like that before
wonder what the pact is
visual jungle
havent seen it used like that before
wait what do you mean?
jovial fulcrum
like, firing it on dad while he's doing the beam attack
toxic siren
after losing basically all of my dd's im in styx
supple igloo
Try battie immediately when the battle starts and focus on asterius if chasing theseus is hard when asterius is on your back
toxic siren
yeah about that, I......... had skelly companion on..........
supple igloo
why
supple igloo
ok now remember
toxic siren
will do
fading nymph
Just got 3 sack vermined and timed out to dad 
lost my Patty too to rub salt in the wound
vague hearth
I remember learning em3
I used to think I would always struggle with them, but due to my insistence to always run with extreme measures on, I'm much more comfortable with that fight
The biggest part is dealing with asterius as soon as possible
Luckily Theseus in EM3 is more of a hazard than an active threat when he's in the chariot, so focussing down asterius is easier as long as you're avoiding Theseus' bombs and strafing runs
Once you can confortably deal with asterius, the fight becomes much less stressful
That being said
I've always wanted to try killing theseus first to see how hard that makes the fight
cunning urchin
If you focus on Theseus, you often end up taking down both around the same time.
Because Asterius will stick close to you anyway.
solid sable
If you focus on Theseus, you often end up taking down both around the same time.
heh?
i thought you're supposed to kill Asterius ifrst
Maybe im just a noob i only hit both of them with meg once or twice
ancient mauve
technically it's easier if you kill asterius first because of the gods' aid to theseus after his health is down ~25%.
i've killed theseus first once just to see what asterius would say, though.
lucid oar
i thought you're supposed to kill Asterius ifrst
You kill Theseus first in speedruns, you kill Asterius first if you don't want to die
solid sable
You kill Theseus first in speedruns, you kill Asterius first if you don't want t...
ooh
turbid needle
the first time i used extreme measures 3 i found it way easier than the regular fight because theseus does pretty much nothing. now i think it's annoying though, mostly because of asterius' spinning attack you just have to run away from, draws out the fight in a bad way
slim ice
So this ME thing everyone saying is op
Merciful End right
It synergies best with stygius and malphon right?
lucid oar
Yes, because they dash strike a lot.
To be honest, all weapons except maybe bow could have a good build with ME
It's just very powerful in general
But it needs a lot of luck
slim ice
No I ment that blade and fists have the fastest attack/special so you can just use it repeatedly very fast
Everything else is slower
sweet hornet
isn't ME usually used with dash strikes?
slim ice
Idk
cunning urchin
You use Divine Dash to proc ME, yeah.
slim ice
Never used it just logic
slim ice
You use Divine Dash to proc ME, yeah.
Oh
lucid oar
You proc ME with your dash at high level play
sweet hornet
I guess the question is, when do you not proc it with dash
slim ice
But you need divine flourish or strike to get it
sweet hornet
I've done hera ME before with phalanx
cunning urchin
I wouldn't call it high level play. Not much thinking necessary for ME.
sweet hornet
but it's not that much damage
guan yu is just miserable without charged shot, or am I missing something?
sacred pebble
For Hera should I be using aphro cast or Poseidon cast and hoping for mirage shot?
strange lark
aphro
ancient mauve
i believe stygius beasts fists by a small margin
or maybe not if you cancel
because fists' dash-strike = 2 punches.
styguius's is only a no-animation thrust
proven osprey
guan yu is just miserable without charged shot, or am I missing something?
It's charged skewer. Can be strong on a spin build too. Special double dash strike
If you don't have the right DPS rotation indeed you won't get much
royal needle
ok so im doing beo build
rn i have 4 casts
and lc4 with stubborn
should i take defiance or abyssal grasp
lucid oar
Do you have mirage shot
lucid oar
Take bottom
royal needle
ok
lucid oar
It's not EM4, is it
lucid oar
The heroes are going down, you have 8 casts
royal needle
uh
im not sure
i scuffed a room
and forgot to trigger sd
so now im at 26 life lol
hopefully i dont choke it
OFJ AERTQWE4
MOREJFEHT:ERFWERJWE
sacred pebble
Oh man
I have sweet nectar and mirage shot on my crush shot Hera build
And a chaos boon buffing cast damage
Bruh with dad boon I did 3K in one shot 🗿
sacred pebble
OH MAN I GOT THE SAME HERA BUILD BUT WITH TRIPPY FLARE AND I CAN DO 10K WITH DAD BOON
I was doing 5.2K damage per shot without dad boon
lucid oar
Try curse of agony, divine flourish, merciful end and divine dash on aspect of Demeter
Once you have all of those boons you can try and get impending doom and greatest reflex, after that just dash strike everything
boreal prism
i wonder if there's any good ares builds without merciful end
raw blade
ares aphro i guess
lucid oar
Hunting blades is good
turbid needle
blades are pretty ok, dire misfortune can be great
outer quail
hunting blades is fun imo but not rly attack focused
lucid oar
Battle rage is great on hestia
turbid needle
but me just works with everything and outclasses almost everything
abstract sage
does triple jab have shotgun effect?
strange lark
no i dont think so
edgy mauve
does triple jab have shotgun effect?
the spears are too far apart
proven osprey
Does not work for some reason yzah
lucid oar
If it did, then flurry jab triple jab would be the most broken hammer combo in the game
supple igloo
150% rush global with shotgun triple flurry when
edgy mauve
If it did, then flurry jab triple jab would be the most broken hammer combo in t...
probably wouldnt need to do flurry jab resets anymore
lucid oar
It's just triple flurry zag bow but 100× faster
sacred pebble
Is Achilles the best spear aspect for speed running?
cunning urchin
Best build is Tidal Dash into Flurry Jab with either Lightning Strike + Static Discharge or Deadly Strike + Hunter's Mark.
lucid oar
https://youtu.be/A9F7XwIE14w here's the world record run
cunning urchin
And something like Breaking Wave, ideally.
sacred pebble
Do I go for dash first?
lucid oar
Yes
cunning urchin
Yeah.
BUT it's not the most consistent build. I'd suggest that for better consistency, you start Tidal Dash, then pick up a decent Cast and build on that.
lucid oar
Because both lightning strike and deadly strike are good, but only tidal dash is good, start tidal
cunning urchin
And if you happen to pick up Flurry Jab, you pivot to that easily.
sacred pebble
Cast?
lucid oar
Phalanx or electric shot are both good
Also could go trippy/slicing but those are harder to manage
sacred pebble
With Stygian soul I’m guessing
cunning urchin
Honestly, you can do a lot of work with any Cast on Achilles. +150% damage is a lot, and all of the Casts can go into silly builds.
lucid oar
With Stygian soul I’m guessing
Go infernal so you don't have to high-roll with chaos. Achilles already wants a lot
cunning urchin
You'd want to start Infernal for consistency. Stygian is more for when you know you're getting Flurry Jab because you just kill yourself if you don't, which is what speedrunners do.
lucid oar
I think 185 still does infernal
cunning urchin
Infernal is great for before you pick up Flurry and also for Lightning Rod, so that makes sense.
And Cast damage is always good to supplement boss damage.
cinder mist
I think 185 still does infernal
185?
cinder mist
Oh it’s a person
lucid oar
185in is their name on speedrun.com
slim ice
Serrated point is not very good right?
I got my first clear with it but that reduced dash...
lucid oar
It's okay, but it makes flurry jab worse if you have both.
It's good on Hades spear I think, if you are running crit builds
cunning urchin
Serrated + Flurry is "okay" at low heats but can easily get you killed at high heat because of they interact.
If you do a Dash-Strike with that combo, you will always do one Flurry Jab immediately after the Dash-Strike that you can't prevent.
Unless you do one Flurry Jab first and then immediately do a Dash-Strike.
So... goodbye to any kind of hit-and-run tactics.
lucid oar
We need flurry slash to work the same as flurry jab
I think it's the only "flurry" hammer that is just bad
cunning urchin
Sword always seemed to like a "casual" weapon, like most of the hammers are more for causal players.
slim ice
It's good on Hades spear I think, if you are running crit builds
I used achilles
Went really good
cunning urchin
And more dedicated players just ignore most of the sword hammers entirely.
slim ice
I didn't had any boon on attack tho
lucid oar
Flurry jab will usually make more hits per second than serrated, and it's safer too
slim ice
Sword is cool
sacred pebble
I hated the shield but Beowulf made me love it
lucid oar
Sword is my least favourite weapon
sacred pebble
But nothing can make me like the sword
slim ice
lucid oar
But nothing can make me like the sword
Start tidal dash on it, pick either aphro/artemis on attack and don't reset if you don't see dedge
Made me find sword a bit more bearable
Or just play Poseidon sword, it plays differently
sacred pebble
I created my own build which was pretty fun but I still didn’t really like it
cunning urchin
Gitting gud with sword made me like sword more.
slim ice
World splitter is a good upgrade
sacred pebble
I used nemesis with aphro special and Artemis attack and heart rend with big chop hammer for lots of crits which each did huge damage
lucid oar
It's better than the standard attack combo, but it's not better than special -> 2×dash strike
Big chop is a fun build tho
slim ice
Or cruel thrust
cunning urchin
Yeah, optimal DPS is always Special > Dash-Strike x2 and Cast > Dash-Strike x2.
lucid oar
Thrust is bad, and cruel thrust doesn't solve it's problems
cunning urchin
Also.
lucid oar
Poor sword hammers
cunning urchin
Special > Dash-Strike x2 > Attack x1 is kinda underrated.
lucid oar
I do that one all the time accidentally
cunning urchin
lol yeah you don't wanna do it accidentally.
royal needle
are there any good guides for playing with beowulf? ive done 6 runs with it on 32 heat, but im still finding that i die even when i get superb luck
lucid oar
are there any good guides for playing with beowulf? ive done 6 runs with it on 3...
Passion flare/flood flare, into mirage shot
Snow burst is good, and any chaos bonus to casts are great as well
cunning urchin
Ravenous Will is great, too, but not over Snow Burst.
royal needle
ive gotten all elements of that like 3 times + chaos casts, but still the damage isnt as much as i would hope
cunning urchin
You're not getting enough poms on your Cast, then.
royal needle
and i find that after i attack, i go to collect my casts and i get slashed
lucid oar
Don't rush to fire out your casts, block if you need to. Beowulf is a very fast weapon, beating the timer shouldn't be an issue
cunning urchin
You can just turn around, start your bull-rush, rush through your bloodstones to pick them up, immediately load them mid-rush and boom.
lucid oar
It's really helpful to get used to
Id watch the 50 heat world record speedrun for gameplay
royal needle
where can i find that?
cunning urchin
But also you can just wait a moment, empty-dash in to pick up your Casts, then dash away somewhere safe.
lucid oar
Go onto speedrun.com, it's the top one for the 50 heat category
It's not on YouTube though
But it's the gameplay that matters, not the numbers
royal needle
im seeing that they are using mnk, is it worth switching to that for better aim?
cunning urchin
Either is fine.
KBM relies more on your aiming, pad relies more on your timing, I guess.
But if you're used to playing on pad, you'll do a lot better on pad.
royal needle
aight
royal needle
dude
how are you supposed to play this
i have 4 casts and level 4 aphro cast and it still takes like 3 rounds to kill the stupid sword peoplei n eleysim
the shield is too slow to use to deflect things
boreal prism
Elysium enemies sure have a lot of health
royal needle
the shield is too slow to use to deflect things
when every you raise it to block you have to go through the attack nimation which takes forever
royal needle
i died lol
its basically snowburst, pash flare, art attack, pos dash and tryna get mirage shot
q: if im going into elysium without poseidon, should i equick conch shell or play it safe with acorn
i havent used acorn yet (used art in ashpodel
cunning urchin
I don't know what your build is or what's in the Well. Can you share a screenshot?
cunning urchin
Oof, that's not a lot of boons. No Deadly Strike, either.
cunning urchin
You usually want Deadly Strike + Tempest Flourish to unlock Mirage Shot, or Deadly Strike + Tidal Dash if you have Charged Shot.
royal needle
i did nt get more artemis
cunning urchin
Shoulda rolled, yeah.
royal needle
should i just throw this one?
cunning urchin
Nah, you have lots of Casts and epic Cast damage. Acorn is fine if you're not confident in EM3.
You'll probably have a much easier time hitting things if you turn down FO and increase HL instead.
royal needle
might do that after this run
right now ill probably be fine with heroes if i dont get screwed on health or something
acorn just like insurance
cunning urchin
Hourglass and buy the Eris Bangle.
royal needle
my hourglass is only 2 star
cunning urchin
Make sure you check every Well, and check the Well before Styx before you switch keepsakes.
That's fine.
cunning urchin
Yeah.
royal needle
yeah i usually check well first
cunning urchin
Might as well be a good time to level up your Hourglass a bit.
cunning urchin
Nah, you don't really have money.
royal needle
ok
cunning urchin
If you had money to buy 2 or three things at least, it can be worth it.
At this point, I would take any Attack out of Deadly Strike, Heartbreak Strike, and Frost Strike.
cunning urchin
You don't need it. It's good, but it's not required.
My Hera PBs are always without Mirage Shot for some reason lol.
And see if you can get more poms on your Cast.
cunning urchin
Strike. Heart Rend isn't doing anything for you here.
royal needle
huh. poseidon did show up
cunning urchin
Patroclus > Chaos Gates > Poms on Cast > Dash > HP.
Nice.
I'd take Poseidon's Aid over Dash here, probably.
Unless Dash is Epic.
cunning urchin
I guess Dash then.
royal needle
aight
cunning urchin
Decent odds for Mirage, Sweet Nectar, or Heart Rend now.
royal needle
should i buy a meg at a well?
i have 2 rn
only 59 coins tho
probably not
also poseidon aphro trial
ill take coins instead
cunning urchin
32 is tough.
royal needle
might try turning it down to sixteen just to get used to beo
foggy prawn
beo at high heat is not easy, for me at least lmao, had to use 20 to get used to it
same with hera for some reason
royal needle
ill keep lc4 on just to stay used to it
cunning urchin
If you make it to Elysium, I'd just keep doing 32.
sterile fiber
Any fun builds for Zeus shield that doesn't use Thunder Flourish
fading nymph
ME
edgy mauve
ME
fading nymph
ME Zeus shield is nice because you don’t need the dash
edgy mauve
with u can also proc it with regular attack
sterile fiber
right
edgy mauve
assuming u have divine strike
sterile fiber
Don't you kinda have to have that
edgy mauve
yeah lul
acoustic vale
Am I unaware of a mechanic or does divine strike not interact correctly with aspect of Lucifer? It seems as though the deflect fails to activate 90% of the time. Dashing seems to make it activate much more often
boreal prism
i think the effect is only at the tip of the laser?
acoustic vale
I thought so too, but I swear the tio of the laser also doesn't deflect pretty often
It's also possible I'm just bad. Actually it's 100% correct that I'm bad, but in this specific case it might not be just that
Awhile back, I managed to get a run where I had so many blade rifts at once that my computer started lagging at Hades and it managed to get me killed one hit away from defeating him. I was mildly annoyed at that lol
sacred pebble
What Beowulf build should I use for speedrunning
cunning urchin
Either Passion Flare into Mirage Shot or Flood Flare into Mirage Shot.
Snow Burst is also a great pick-up.
And any +1 ammo and Cast damage from Master Chaos or from Wells of Charon.
Lots of poms on your Cast.
You can also do Trippy Flare with Stygian Soul, but you'll really need extra ammo for that one to work well.
lucid oar
Charged shot and sudden rush are the best hammers
solar dawn
I like arthur, big backstab builds with it are fun imo
Beowulf too, big damage makes me go big happy
turbid needle
never could get the hang of beowulf, i don't really like the ones that load the cast into an attack tbh
arthus is great, big damage
cinder mist
But they are all great apart from Gilgamesh
What’s wrong with Gilgamesh?
cunning urchin
Worse DPS than other Malphon Aspects and very unsafe.
hearty mulch
As much fun as I had with Gilgamesh...
...Talos and Demeter do its job infinitely better.
Heck, even Zag Fists are better depending on if you're going for a dodge build
slim ice
I think imma unlock rama
hearty mulch
I'd say Zag Fists are usually better than Talos anyway.
Zag fists are Dem fists without the nuclear special attack
molten lichen
I'm struggling a bit to find a good exagryph build path, anyone have any tips?
lucid oar
Start lightning strike in Tartarus, Poseidon in Asphodel for tidal dash, pom the dash
Also try and get static discharge from Zeus and deadly/heartbreak flourish
cunning urchin
Very in-depth guide for getting optimal DPS.
There are other viable builds, of course.
acoustic vale
I'm struggling a bit to find a good exagryph build path, anyone have any tips?
Lasers
cunning urchin
Drunken Strike can do a lot of work on the rail.
royal needle
going to elysium 32 heat beo, should i buy braid and take charons keepsake or take acorn for insurance?
proven osprey
depends on the confidence you have
royal needle
lucid oar
That looks like it could take down Asterius
royal needle
i could also roll for prometheus
proven osprey
yeah you'll burst them down
lucid oar
The main struggle with Elysium is Asterius miniboss because you don't have acorn, but your build looks good
royal needle
so should i take braid then?
lucid oar
Yes
proven osprey
braid is pog
lucid oar
Also take the yarn
royal needle
?
royal needle
ok
lucid oar
You have RD open
lucid oar
Get those sweet 0HP heals
royal needle
yeah lol
i guess just go get more chaos casts now?
or art legendary or something
ill see
lucid oar
Pretty much yeah
You could force Demeter for snow burst, or Athena for DDs, but it's a bit late for athena
cunning urchin
Just get any boons at all and HP.
shut mortar
I would go for arty legendary because I like highrolling and being a dumbass
proven osprey
I'd go demeter yeah
cunning urchin
Couple poms on your Cast wouldn't hurt. Lv.3 is kinda low tbh.
shut mortar
but you probably shouldn't
proven osprey
snow burst ravenous will killing freeze
shut mortar
might want to go for well keepsake because yarns are overpowered
royal needle
i have demeter already
i just had to sell
cause i had no rolls and other options were cast and attack i tihnk
cunning urchin
Build is good enough, I'd just want some poms on Cast or something else to make up for it. But you can prioritize HP over that.
And boons over HP regardless of what boons you get just to not be forced to purge something decent.
shut mortar
hp gud
I like to have around 300 by the hades fight in high heat
on my first clear I had 500 max health lmao
cunning urchin
m fine with 200 HP going into the fight for HL5 FO2 CP2. Not max HP, actual remaining HP (including SD and DDs). On any build.
For regular Hades.
cunning urchin
Snow Burst 100%.
royal needle
ok
yeah i got 200 hp plus patty going into heroes fight, im fine
and hes dead, only lost 50 hp
i might finally win this one
cunning urchin
You were using Hourglass, right? Check Well, then swap to Acorn.
shut mortar
acorn is monka
shut mortar
yarn isn't really worth it btw
shut mortar
it's 70g, way too much unless you're expecting your next boon to be something you want something specific from
cunning urchin
I like Yarn.
Especially in Styx where you can choose your next boon very freely.
Yarn gives +10% chance for duo/legendary, yes.
cunning urchin
keeping pattie is better than going for art legendary right?
Right.
cunning urchin
Alright, just focus on a clean fight now. Don't be greedy. You have plenty of time.
lucid oar
Yarn is fantastic in between biomes because it's likely that the first boon will be hermes
cunning urchin
That, too.
hot venture
BIRD
proven osprey
strange lark
Bird
royal needle
hesa cute boid
supple igloo
molten lichen
oh right, i forgot to say: the eris build worked wonders
I even got lucky to get both tidal dash and lightning strike with epic rarity
strange lark
Nice
molten lichen
I still need to learn how to use the rail better
I mess up my aim with it sometimes
echo helm
oh same, esp when theres a lot of enemies
sterile fiber
omg Hestia rail is fun
Just need to remember that the first shot in a room is not reloaded
vague hearth
I miss the old shotgun hammer when it had stupid knockback scaling with poseidon attack
It's still a ton of fun for dash builds though
tough plinth
Ok, so i'm still not sold on arti builds but I keep hearing unianimous praise for excalibur+arti, and I finally have a sword thirst. so any Boons I should look out for/are the focual point of the ideal build?
strange lark
Artemis attack, aphro dash, heartrend
That's the main build
Get hunters mark as well
You can also take zeus call for smoldering air
tough plinth
gotcha, thanks!
Got an epic rarity arti attack for first boon, so that’s convenient
Between arti cast, arti special, and crit effects do bonus damage to armor, I want the armor damage. Right?
royal needle
if you have rolls roll
tough plinth
I do not, so yeah.
royal needle
if not take bonus armour damage i guess
tough plinth
At least they’re all purple though
I’m asking because I know some boons require multiple main boons to appear
Are any good arti/duo boons like that?
tough plinth
Oh, then nevermind me then
royal needle
t1 can be offered anytie
t2 usually requires at least 1 of t1
and leg boons take 1 or more t2/t1 boons
most of her boons on the wiki show which tier
royal needle
Artemis attack, aphro dash, heartrend
usually id do art aphro special and then take something like athena on dash
just because you usually dont need to apply weak that much
strange lark
Artemis special?
tough plinth
I was gonna ask on if Ath fits into the build
Expose and deflect are both excellent with Excalibur imo/from what I can gather
tough plinth
jesus
Ive gotten a double chaos attack buff on excalibur, but thats just ridiculous.
how much damage was the final combo hit backstab? I need to know
tough plinth
Sounds about right
tough plinth
dude I'm happy if I get 2 chaos gates in my whole run. what am I missing?
is it the egg? epic rng?
strange lark
Epic rng
boreal prism
2 is a reasonable amount to get most of the time
strange lark
I used the egg in the backstab run but I don't think it gives you extra chaos gates
But it feels like it does
edgy mauve
egg doesnt give u extra chaos gates
acoustic vale
Does the shattered shackle damage bonus apply to the dash strike or only the regular attack?
strange lark
Does the shattered shackle damage bonus apply to the dash strike or only the reg...
It applies to both
acoustic vale
Good
acoustic vale
Current heat +20% jury summon, asphodel extreme heat, heightened security (NOT a good combo with extreme heat asphodel), and both damage control
boreal prism
Heightened security is one of the hardest heats
And damage control is hard if you have certain weapons
Go for like... td1 or somethin
acoustic vale
Heightened security is one of the hardest heats
Is it? I thought it would be at first, but then I found it wasn't so bad except in that one specific case. Probably just not noticing myself walking into the traps though.
acoustic vale
Go for like... td1 or somethin
Also, as I mentioned at one point I have currently done the math and I cannot handle tight deadline until such time as I shave 3 minutes off my average run time fklsdjf
proper furnace
heightened security isnt fun when the vases in the hades fight hit you for 150 if you get hit by one in accident
acoustic vale
heightened security isnt fun when the vases in the hades fight hit you for 150 i...
Wait it does that much? Huh. That explains some things
proper furnace
normally 30 and with hs goes to 150, yup
boreal prism
Maybe middle management then
boreal prism
That one has an adjustment period but at low heat it's no worries
foggy prawn
maybe HL1 if you're bold
boreal prism
Does HL affect pot damage?
acoustic vale
I've personally found that through sheer luck I almost never get caught in the pots. When I first saw security I was far more worried about the magma because that's where 90% of trap damage I take comes from
royal needle
Also, as I mentioned at one point I have currently done the math and I cannot ha...
how long is your current run time?
acoustic vale
Average is around 30 minutes, I think my best run just barely made 26 minutes, while some of my others are in the 34-36 minute range
My best run could have done it, but most of them don't
royal needle
to be honest i would take td2 and just start to try and get used to playing through the game faster
like some things you can do to save time:
pause making room decisions, shop decisions
almost always taking shops or story rooms (sisyphus, eurydice, patty) to save time
in general playing a bit more aggressive
if you want to play it safer then just take td1
foggy prawn
what he said
take td1 if youre still not used to speed
then td2
td2 is the sweet spot if you dont wanna feel like youre still chilling and at the same time still going at a nice pace
royal needle
td3 is juicy cause 3 heat, but its also kinda stressful if your bad at the game (speaking from current experiences as someone bad at game)
proper furnace
what is a good 2nd hammer for Achilles? already got flurry jab
edgy mauve
it doesnt really matter for 2nd hammer achilles
just not serrated because u already got flurry imo
probably extending for a useful one
proper furnace
alright, also you answered just as i picked serrated 3 chambers ago lol
edgy mauve
😬
serrated isnt needed because u already have flurry and it reduces ur dash range
its like downgrading while u already have the maximum upgrade
proper furnace
i dont have much problem with the reduced dash range but curious if its normal that it forces me to do a normal attack after the dash strike
edgy mauve
i dont think it makes u do that
just not specialing as soon as u finish ur dashes so it causes a normal attack
acoustic vale
I've found the smaller mini dashes of gilgamesh to be a benefit all around, because with normal dashes I tended to dash directly into magma waaaaay too often.
cunning urchin
i dont have much problem with the reduced dash range but curious if its normal t...
That can happen if you do a Dash-Attack and don't let go of Attack fast enough.
proper furnace
how fast enough is that? i just did a little tap and it still did it
cunning urchin
Well.. faster than that. 
It's not easy to do tbh.
Might only work if you press Attack+Dash together for the Dash-Attack rather than Dash and then Attack after a bit of delay, not entirely sure right now. I'd have to check in-game.
proper furnace
#h1-high-heat-strategies message
oh, just readed this 
cunning urchin
Yeah. I've actually not been able to a Dash-Attack without follow-up Flurry Jab with that hammer combo, but I can do a Dash-Attack without follow-up Attack on Gilgamesh.
turbid needle
triple means you need to get rly close so if you dont lke that
cunning urchin
Well, Triple also means you can still shoot from farther away than Twin Shot can.
royal needle
triple i think is better for more damage but i find it way easier to hit both shots with twin
and usually im arleady very close to enemies
be cool if you could get triple twin shot on rama like cluster rockets on eris
cunning urchin
I don't know if Triple is better for damage than Twin tbh. I kinda go back and forth.
turbid needle
hard to say, I def think triple is better on bosses in rooms tho it varies
royal needle
does life affirmation do anything with lc4
cunning urchin
Yes, it's unaffected.
royal needle
so does it increase centaur hearts or somethng?
cunning urchin
Yes, and the HP you get from Darkness rewards.
royal needle
ah ok
cunning urchin
Weak + Life Affirmation can easily carry high heat runs.
royal needle
should i sell a red life affirmation or a purple lighting reflex
i guess lightning reflex
cunning urchin
I'd sell Lightning Reflex, yeah.
royal needle
does the 30% damage boost from jerky apply to crits and all that?
cunning urchin
Any additive bonuses are applied before crits.
royal needle
ok
which between zeus, dionysus, aphro and artemis would be best for a dash on rama
cunning urchin
Passion Dash or Hunter Dash depending on build. Passion Dash is great for Heart Rend if you have Deadly Strike.
royal needle
also is repulse shot good?
cunning urchin
It's fine, helps getting off some Power Shots safely.
But I'd rather take something that does damage.
royal needle
probably take point balnk over that right?
cunning urchin
Definitely.
turbid needle
yeah
royal needle
ok
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/861453601263321099/867427551311429712/unknown.png which to sell?
going into styx
cunning urchin
I'd sell Hunter's Mark, personally.
cunning urchin
You won't need it.
royal needle
hopefully
oh yeah i got this
360 health going into dad fight with tos dark
my man didnt stand a chance
cunning urchin
Congratulations!
turbid needle
i know that the best weapon is generally considered to be eris rail but i prefer to get in and deal deal damage up close so what should i play?
bow, no joke
what
um
up close?
bow?
yes
how would that work
rama bow with point blank and triple shot
boreal prism
by the time you charge up the shot, the enemy is in your face
turbid needle
completly insane dmg
royal needle
is bad influence global? if so it seems extremely good
boreal prism
you don't have to play the best weapon to win
turbid needle
you don't have to play the best weapon to win
ofc
royal needle
rama bow with point blank and triple shot
or pointblank twin
turbid needle
yes 👌
these are all hammer upgrades right?
i never play bow lol
or you could just play the melee weapons
yes
turbid needle
or you could just play the melee weapons
i like spear but always struggle with sword
fists?
sword is rly hard bc its bad
do you have the hidden sword aspect
boreal prism
yeah sounds like you want someone to tell you to play fists
turbid needle
yep
turbid needle
do you have the hidden sword aspect
nope
turbid needle
play fists
lmao ok
I'd try hidden sword because its very different from normal sword
Arthur right?
how do i get that
boreal prism
spend 5 blood in sword
boreal prism
unlock 5 aspects then talk to achilles a lot
turbid needle
ok ty
sterile fiber
thanks to the folks who recced ME Zeus the other day it was a fun time
languid forum
is stubborn defiance better than death defiance?
when should i use stubborn defiance
strange lark
stubborn defiance is used at high heat when you have lc4
languid forum
ahh ok thanks
slim ice
stubborn defiance is used at high heat when you have lc4
I use stubborn all the time
boreal prism
stubborn is good when regular rooms kill you more than bosses, and it's good when you you're on LC4 and so you have no other sources of healing
slim ice
Hera aspect + trippy shot = mmm damage
languid forum
what should i have on special and attack for chiron?
royal needle
i think a pretty good build is heartrend with art attack aphro special heartrend duo boon
grave wadi
what weapons would you say have the highest dps
royal needle
rama twin shot point blank
strange lark
yeah rama has really good damage
royal needle
you can kill heroes in like 20 seconds if you get lucky with art crits
lucid oar
Beowulf or nemesis have the highest ceiling
acoustic vale
Concept: Killing freeze is probably very good in the Theseus fight, cause they don't spawn enemies
royal needle
what does killing freeze do again?
boreal prism
When all foes are Chill afflicted, they become Slow and Decay.
woah heroic killing freeze is 100dps
lucid oar
It's basically hangover + numbing sensation in the one boon, with a condition that isn't hard to fulfill, and you get the benefits of frost strike anyway.
It's really good
royal needle
Oh yeah that ones good
Demeter has some op boons
Killing freeze
Her legendary
Rare crops pretty good
acoustic vale
Rare crops is great if you get the right boons affected at the right time
royal needle
Pretty high damage %
Yeah
It’s very good early on
Because you don’t have many boons
acoustic vale
if you get epic level strong drink picked right before the regional boss it's not nearly as great
I mean it's still good then, it's just slightly sad at the exact timing
royal needle
True
acoustic vale
How's support fire? I feel like it's good, it's not super high damage but it's also extremely easy to use because you literally don't have to do anything it's just free damage for playing the game
lucid oar
Depends on the weapon
On the fists and rail it's pretty good, but anywhere else it's mediocre
Flurry jab spear makes it good
acoustic vale
Question: How much hp does Hades have between his two stages?
lucid oar
I think about 30-35k for both phases, and about 80k for EM4?
strange lark
non EM Hades: 17k health per phase, = 34k health total
EM4 hades: 22k health per phase, 3 phases (3rd phase only heals to .75 though) ~= 60.5k health total
lucid oar
So the 80k must be CP2 EM4, that's where I got that number from
edgy mauve
what weapons would you say have the highest dps
achilles
turbid needle
what weapons would you say have the highest dps
Just raw damage counting optimal boons? Fists with ME and extra dashes
jovial fulcrum
Best I've seen is like 40 to 0
slim ice
thans bad at killing things
You mean slow
royal needle
thanks bad at killing things fast
slim ice
And zagreus is often controlled by a speedrunner wannabe 
royal needle
true
acoustic vale
So, with epic level swift flourish you can have never ending rama special fire
echo helm
27 minutes....ack
final pewter
So is this guide wrong when it says "Athena Cast will backstab from the front with Parting Shot, so make sure to hit enemies head-on."
cunning urchin
It was true at the time at least on Hera. Not sure about other aspects. When I used Phalanx Shot with Parting Shot on sword the other day, it would backstab from the back. Either they fixed that or it was only true on Hera and still is.
I always run Crush Shot on Hera, so I don't really know in what weird ways Phalanx Shot works or not anymore.
lucid oar
Generally that guide is pretty outdated, the only cast that people really use on Hera is crush shot, and it mentions nothing on chaos/mirage shot but it mentions sweet surrender, lol
final pewter
@lucid oar so it doesnt backstab from front anymore?
lucid oar
It might do, but parting shot generally isn't worth aiming for, so it doesn't matter
final pewter
why not
cunning urchin
@final pewter this is how you build Hera for speed. #h1-discussion message
Parting Shot is decent when it's offered, but you don't go out of your way to build for it.
final pewter
thank you for that link. I think my best hera run did have the aphro cast and snow burst and remember liking it. Best part about that build seems to be not relying on duo
cunning urchin
Well, you rely on a few things anyway if you want a competitive time. But Hera is very consistent anyway.
I don't know what your goal is.
slim ice
Should I take triple shot twin shot or point-blank shot?
Second hammer
Rama
I have bouncy shot or how's it called
I'm gonna take point blank
lucid oar
The best one would have be either triple or twin
Both are really good. Triple is more unsafe, but deals more damage. Twin is more consistent.
And they both combo with point blank shot very well
grave wadi
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/861453601263321099/867536884824539136/unk...
Than is the reason I asked for dps, I was beating him by a huge margin for like 20 runs, but then when I switched from Excalibur to the aspect of hades spear and the chiron bow… then killed like all of them
final pewter
any hammers I should target for the Hera crush shot build?
edgy mauve
triple/twin/flurry
if u see triple or flurry pick it over twin because they are both better than twin imo
also make sure not to absolutely yeet ur casts with flurry if u pick it
final pewter
if i see triple or flurry, dont pick it over twin... but they are better than twin
wu?
lucid oar
Flurry allows you to have max range casts with no chargeup time. Twin triple allow you to do more damage when your casts are lodged. All 3 are really good, especially when combined
final pewter
Okay but like... are they important enough to go into a hammer room vs hermes boon? Or like vs gold?
edgy mauve
hammers should always be taken vs gold no?
edgy mauve
yeah first pom is really important
so like first pom vs hammer id take first pom because u can always get hammer again
slim ice
Why do everyone do crush shot build when trippy shot deals more damage
edgy mauve
using trippy shot would make hera 100x less consistent because u would have to reset for an extra cast in tart and u would pretty heavily need mirage because it registers as a flare and u would need to be good with non cast hera whereas with crush shot hera u need less and u get ur casts back in a reasonable amount of time (dont quote me on this)
final pewter
whats the general build around ME with nemesis?
edgy mauve
ares on attack athena on special plus dash
special first for a prereq
and u want impending
its standard ME
lucid oar
You can also get arti cast and get deadly reversal
lucid oar
Extra dashes are really good
slim ice
Festive fog duration is 5s
Same as drop time on highest level hera
Why would you need to reset for extra cast
lucid oar
With crush shot you can kill enemies pretty much instantly and get the casts back straight away
lucid oar
Why would you need to reset for extra cast
Because you would use stygian soul
foggy prawn
yep
foggy prawn
for dio cast always use stygian
thing is if ur usinng hera
youre gonna have to pray to get chaos extra boon+arte legendary
slim ice
Because you would use stygian soul
?
foggy prawn
and early game damage youll be super lackin
edgy mauve
u dont need arte legendary
foggy prawn
eh i always go for that if i do dio beo just cus ill be getting mirage shot anyways
lucid oar
?
Stygian soul makes you have 1 cast that recharges after 3 seconds. It is the best option for Dio cast because with infernal soul the casts take ages to pop back out.
edgy mauve
and non cast hera is just worse zag bow
slim ice
Does crush shot drops cast instantly
lucid oar
It does if you instantly kill enemies, which isn't impossible because crush shot does so much damage
edgy mauve
crush shot kills things very fast and instantly so kinda yeah
foggy prawn
no but with 3 straight away you get to kill enemies in one hit
slim ice
But bosses
lucid oar
Hera is going to struggle with bosses anyway unless you have quick reload or can instaphase
foggy prawn
yep
edgy mauve
yeah
foggy prawn
thats why i use beo lmao, but hera is still fast
edgy mauve
beo is s t a n k y
foggy prawn
hey dont u say that
edgy mauve
stank
foggy prawn
beo is love beo is life
slim ice
Scintillating Feast also
edgy mauve
hera needs way more on dio flare than it will ever need on crush shot
slim ice
edgy mauve
^i agree
foggy prawn
bruh
edgy mauve
@foggy prawn yeet
edgy mauve
...
Idk
u need mirage u would need to reset for an extra cast and u would probably need actual good hammers as well
its just not as consistent and doesnt do more while requiring way more
slim ice
u need mirage u would need to reset for an extra cast and u would probably need ...
Explosive shot
edgy mauve
Explosive shot
explosive isnt as good as twin triple or flurry i dont think
maybe twin
slim ice
With hera
edgy mauve
its like a fully automatic shotgun that shoots shotguns
foggy prawn
i mean doesnt hurt to try ofc but you'll see later on
edgy mauve
explosive shot is a cope
lucid oar
Explosive is pretty good if you have arti attack, but it's not as good as flurry
Explosive triple can do work
edgy mauve
imagine if explosive flurry was a thing
lucid oar
Imagine twin triple
edgy mauve
imagine
foggy prawn
5 times the damage lmao
lucid oar
6 if multiplicative
slim ice
I have an idea
Arthur + high tolerance + different league + weak inflicting boon + broken resolve + holy + shield + bronze skin + athena's aid + broken spearpoint
edgy mauve
w h a t?
foggy prawn
true tank build lmao
jovial fulcrum
take dodge boons too
vague hearth
I prefer the fist dodge tank/actual tank build
Get hermes trinket
Commit war crimes at an unprecedented rate and get big dodge percent
Get a ton of max health, and either dodge chance, drift dash and/or more dashes
Never retreat
foggy prawn
why dont we just use zag fsword, plume, speed, and then take rush delivery
take the lifesteal and hold hammers
with demeter atk
lmao
cunning urchin
explosive shot is a cope
Explosive first hammer and no Twin, Triple, or Flurry is a reset.
full steppe
I often wondered if you can achieve things that are normally impossible like twin triple on bow with mods?
cunning urchin
Also I'll take Twin over Triple first hammer, probably. Hard to say. Triple is nice for AOE, Twin guarantees easy one-shots everywhere.
edgy mauve
Explosive first hammer and no Twin, Triple, or Flurry is a reset.
exactly its a cope
tiny veldt
vocal sierra
so i was looking at my past run
and apparently i died to hades at run #8
and my first time beating him was run #12
i wonder whats considered good
strange lark
yeah thats really good
foggy prawn
thats really good
supple mauve
i have no idea how to do high heat run aside from rama w thunder flourish -> lightning rods lol
lucid oar
That is a decent build, but it does rely on getting a lot of extra Zeus boons. Any build that can do decent damage while staying safe will be good for high heat.
supple mauve
i just the ease of machinegunning with special, esp w special +4shots
love the ease*
watching youtube doesnt really help though
for me 😦
final pewter
which builds like Stygian Soul over the Infernal?
royal needle
i believe if a cast gets lodged, you want infernal
if it doesent ( laser, dio cast, ares blades ) you want stygian
final pewter
ahh
final pewter
when something affects Dash-Attacks, does that also affect dash specials?
lucid oar
Yes
normal flicker
Hi guys, I can´t run away with the bow and the gun, which gods fit them better? Artemis + (Zeus, Demeter) maybe?
lucid oar
For the gun get Zeus attack and static discharge
And tidal dash if you want to kill things quickly, divine dash if you don't want to die
normal flicker
uhm I see
edgy mauve
Hi guys, I can´t run away with the bow and the gun, which gods fit them better? ...
which aspect for bow?
normal flicker
Zagreo´s
edgy mauve
slap le heart rend on it
normal flicker
Quiron aspect is better?
edgy mauve
artemis attack and passion dash and grab heart rend dash through the enemies to apply weak so ur crits hit like a massive truck and the hammers u want are twin/triple/flurry
normal flicker
copy that!
edgy mauve
this is for zag bow btw
proper furnace
what is better for zeus shield, charged shot or pulverizing blow?
lucid oar
Charged shot
Pulverising blow is good on zag shield, but not Zeus because your base attack doesn't deal much damage, so doubling it isn't as good as putting charged shot on it
edgy mauve
i think its more about proccing and applying doom as fast as possible
unless it doesnt do that
slim ice
Hmm ME with Zeus aspect
final pewter
if a well item increases special damage, does it also increase the Boon damage associated with the special?
like doom damage
lucid oar
No
edgy mauve
no
final pewter
no
edgy mauve
no
strange lark
yes
strange lark
it doesnt
final pewter
What if I believe hard enough?
edgy mauve
nah
strange lark
maybe
edgy mauve
i do that for good rng and i never get it
royal needle
could you do an me build with rama doom special and athena attack/dash?
edgy mauve
i mean technically yah but i dont think it would work well
edgy mauve
if ur doing ME rama with doom on special i wouldnt attack at all
just special and dash
boreal prism
right, right
final pewter
Whats the meta aegis aspect?
final pewter
Yeah all the top speedruns look like beowolf
cunning urchin
Beowulf for speed, both for high heat.
supple igloo
Achilles
proper furnace
explosive return with zeus is good right?
strange lark
yeah
final pewter
Is it realistic to get most aspects maxed?
strange lark
yeah
final pewter
Okay cool. Like I def wanna do beowolf for speed but its the exact same thing as Hera which Im already leveling so if I can switch it up when I go shield and still be decently within meta, im g
and still level beowolf later
