h1-builds-and-combat

[sterile fiber]

for ME builds do I use owl first or blood vial first

[proven osprey]

• doom bonus

[edgy mauve]

depends on the weapon

[turbid needle]

I usually do Blood Vial, Owl is perfectly viable, maybe even preferable because you want two Athena boons.

Your overall damage might suffer to start.

[edgy mauve]

u normally do blood vial and put doom on attack but a special case would be zeus shield where u can put it on special but if ur playing guan yu u start with athena on special iirc

[sterile fiber]

ah

[boreal prism]

Divine dash doesn't unlock ME btw

[sterile fiber]

right

[cunning urchin]

Numbers like that are from multiple Doom effects that proc in quick succession.

[edgy mauve]

maybe

[unique geode]

Question: With the bow, aspect of Hera. In training grounds it says "Release X/Left mouse while flashing to power shot" I can't figure out how to do it? Whats flashing?

[mossy finch]

so at fully charged

you can execute a charged shot

a distinct audio plays when you do it

[unique geode]

:0 i did that and it doesn't mark it off as complete

[mossy finch]

but it only works when you fire right when you finish charging

[unique geode]

ohh isee, its a timing thing. Yea i got it. Thanks!

[mossy finch]

welcome

its not hera specific btw

works on all bow aspects

[unique geode]

OH! i never noticed that. I rarely use the bow xD

[mossy finch]

oh well if you rarely ever use the bow

2 tips:

Special is garbage

always dash before charging up the bow so it charges up faster

[unique geode]

: O! oo thanks

[rigid rover]

Can Demeter attack work with rail?

[sonic mural]

not optimal i feel like

compared to zeus

[rigid rover]

I know, bored of optimal builds. Trying to do something fun

[turbid needle]

its okay

[sonic mural]

yah then it def can work all stacking builds should work decently well with rail

[rigid rover]

Haven’t done a strong Demeter build before

[ancient mauve]

in what concerns ME, so far nondash-attack + dash repeatedly has been working better for me

i mean:
(1) hug hades
(2) attack (apply doom)
(3) dash through hades (execute doom)
(4) go to (2)
with a +2 or +3 hermes boon i usually never run out of dashes before i actually need to move/dodge something.

i'm pretty sure i can apply/execute 2-3 dooms/second this way

it's so insane i was absolutely sure nothing came even close to it in dps
...until i unlocked the hidden bow.

the hidden bow is absolutely nuts.

[sonic mural]

eris railgun w/ zeus attack and poseidon dash and rocket cluster artemis is pretty insane in dps as well

[ancient mauve]

i haven't tried those, but so far i hate any machinegun but zagreus.

maybe because i haven't spent blood on them beyond unlocking.

[sonic mural]

hidden shield is insane as well, nemesis sword w/double edge and heartrend

[ancient mauve]

i tried hidden shield but to me it felt like a hera bow but less mobility or more clunkiness not sure how to describe.
i didn't quite like it.

[sonic mural]

ye its like a battering ram

achilles spear is pretty insane as well i got my fastest time on it

[ancient mauve]

besides, with hera you remain "safe" and the shot goes.
with bewulf you go into danger.

spear was my first favorite weapon because of the attack range increase lol.
that's how i beat hades for the first time. staying out of range of his spin instead of learning to dodge it.

[sonic mural]

i dunno shield is described as one of the safest weapons cuz it blocks all damage

[ancient mauve]

learning to dodge everything (most of the time) and being able to go fists all in is a lot more satisfying (and waaay faster).

[ancient mauve]

yeah i probably just didn't use it well.

does shield block hydra aoes?

[turbid needle]

you mean the head slam? yea

[ancient mauve]

head slam and fireballs

and seismic aoes too

and that mob-rock fall

[turbid needle]

I dont know about the headstompers tbh

not playing shield that much

but it almost blocks everything in the game

[ancient mauve]

yeah it blocks hades lasers

it's funny that i nowadays i crave the lasers

once you successfully resolve the oedipus complex

and realize hugging your father is the way to go

lasers = free dps

they used to make me panic

the waving hands and arms made me spam spacebar to behind the closest rock

[cinder mist]

Yo, I've started grinding this game again and have a few questions. First of which being: If I've understood correctly, you only get four gods per run, randomly determined. What I'm wondering is, if I use a keepsake to force a spawn of a fifth god after the original four have all made their appearance, what happens to the "god pool" or whatever? Will the one I keepsake in replace one of the others, or will I get it as an one-off deal, or what?

[worn meadow]

You get 5 gods

[cinder mist]

Alright, thanks 🙂

Second question: Is there a list of what things that affect your "Attack" also affect things like dash attack, and when they only proc from the stand-still attack? Related; how does the shield work, does blocking/bull rush count as your attack as far as boons go? (E.g. can I reflect projectiles with Athena attack by blocking, etc)

[lucid oar]

Attack affects dash attack, dash attack doesn't affect attack

[cinder mist]

Cheers

But not always, or? Do aspects that increase your "Attack" damage always also increase dash attack? What about Chaos boons (the one that increases "Attack" damage)

[hoary slate]

They do.

And blocking only Blocks, but if you release it it is affected by your attack boons.

Dash-attack-boons will affect the few dash-specials in the game though.

[cinder mist]

Ooh, so if I have, say, the hammer that gives me the explosive dash uppercut on fists, Artemis dash attack damage boon will boost the upper?

[hoary slate]

Don't need the explosive for it. They're both boosting the dash-uppercut yes.

[cinder mist]

Ah, so even if I don't have any particular "your dash special does this" effect, I can boost my special damage on the fists by doing a dash-upper with increased dash attack? So both dash attack damage and special damage will boost my dash-upper?

[hoary slate]

Yes.

[cinder mist]

Cool

[rigid rover]

Does playing Beowulf trippy flare with 1 cast is the saddest thing ever

Mirage shot and ice wine

Not chaos

[turbid needle]

ice wine is kinda bad on beo

[lucid oar]

Well you've essentially got 2 casts with less flexibility

[dense lion]

Does Swift Flourish do anything on Exagryph?

Every time I take it, it doesn't feel like it does much

[edgy mauve]

the one that buffs ur attack?

[cunning urchin]

Flourish is Special.

[dense lion]

No, Hermes special speed buff

[edgy mauve]

it does things

[cunning urchin]

You don't really notice it too much unless it's Epic or you have Cluster or Rocket Bomb.

[ancient mauve]

rama, aphro attack, dyo special, artemis dash.
what's a good fourth god?

[cunning urchin]

Just whoever you come across, pretty much.

[ancient mauve]

isn't there any you wish for once you got those three?

[cunning urchin]

Lord Zeus: Zeus' Aid > Smoldering Air, Lightning Rod
Poseidon: Hydraulic Might, Ocean's Bounty, maybe Poseidon's Aid > Sweet Nectar, Exclusive Access
Lady Athena: Phalanx Shot, Proud Bearing if you have a decent Call
Lord Ares: Curse of Vengeance > Curse of Nausea, Urge to Kill
Lady Demeter: Ravenous Will, maybe Rare Crop, Snow Burst into Killing Freeze can be nice

[cunning urchin]

You have what you want, fourth god isn't a big priority.

[languid forum]

monkey

[tall sparrow]

does the damage increase of blood frenzy stack?

so if 2 or more death defiances get used in an encounter is it multiplied on top of one another?

[strange lark]

i dont think so

[tough plinth]

What would an ideal Aspect of Rama build look like?

[strange lark]

aphro/artemis attack, dio, zeus, or ares on special

hunters dash

triple shot, point blank shot

[tough plinth]

Obviously it would probably cater to burst damage or aoe, but not sure what to use to achieve that

I should mention I mean what Olympians specifically

[tough plinth]

How would you say Demeter fits in on the special attack?

[cunning urchin]

That depends a lot on what pacts you're playing with.

[tough plinth]

Feels significantly weaker than dio or Zues though

[cunning urchin]

Frost Flourish is... okay. But it's not giving you DPS.

[tough plinth]

Yeah exactly.

[cunning urchin]

Hangover, Doom, and Lightning are best on Rama Special.

[tough plinth]

I never thought about chain doom, good point there

Alright, aphro/arti on attack and dio/zues/ares on special

Wait what about Athena?

[cunning urchin]

It's not about stacking it with Dire Misfortune, it's just that the damage is very high for a single Special.

We don't actually know the optimal Rama build for DPS on any heat. @lone urchin has the WR with Thunder Flourish start into Heartbreak Strike in Asphodel, but there's also no actual competition for that run. The aspect is not very popular for speedruns, so the meta is underdeveloped.

High heat Rama needs to solve problems that low heat Rama doesn't, so there are a lot of differences there.

[cunning urchin]

Fine on Dash. Alright on Attack if you're not seeing anything else and if it's at least rare or epic.

Phalanx Shot is always good.

But if you're not getting an Attack until Elysium, you're probably better off just grabbing Shackle from there than taking Divine Strike.

[tough plinth]

I figured, but yeah, probably not as good as aphro on the attack

[cunning urchin]

Top Rama players are kind of split between Deadly Strike and Heartbreak Strike.

Certainly can't go wrong with either.

[tough plinth]

so what are the more problematic pacts that occur on higher heats? I've been sticking with stacking benefits package as well as extreme measures.

I assume by high heat you mean above 20

[cunning urchin]

I mean like 40+ Heat.

You start having to take things like DC2, AP, CF, etc.

And survivability is more of a concern.

[buoyant mantle]

whats the best version of the shield?

[cunning urchin]

Beowulf or Zeus.

[worn meadow]

how effetive is "attackless" Rama

that just spams special

like how do people tag many enemies?

i could only tag like 3 or 4 at a time

[cunning urchin]

Fire into crowds to tag multiple enemies, then dash to reposition and fire into another crowd to tag even more.

I often lead with a Special into a wall or other obstacle behind enemy spawn points just as they spawn, and then the arrows that bounce off will tag enemies. Like, the Special hits the obstacle just as the enemies spawn, and they instantly get tagged by the bouncing arrows, and I can already fire another Special at another group of enemies.

[ancient mauve]

how does "curse of longing" work with "merciful end"?

[cunning urchin]

The way you would expect.

[ancient mauve]

attack - apply doom
dash through - execute doom full damage
dash through again (no attack) - execute doom2 less damage
?

[lucid oar]

If you activate the doom with deflect, then enemies aren't being inflicted with doom long enough to get the successive hit

[cunning urchin]

But why wouldn't you just Dash-Strike?

[ancient mauve]

oh yeah. i certainly will, but then what benefit will "curse of longing"?

[cunning urchin]

I've actually genuinely no idea if Doom remains on the enemy if you have Curse of Longing and proc the Doom with Merciful End, but the thing is... it makes zero difference.

[ancient mauve]

or is it only going to be of "usefulness" when for some reason i cannot execute the doom "manually" (dashing through)?

[cunning urchin]

Curse of Longing and Merciful End have like zero synergy.

[ancient mauve]

that's exactly what i meant

they did look like theyy had zero synergy

and, changing slightly the subject, but still merciful end:
that hermes boon that gives +100% speed on dash.
coupled with the other one that gives bonus damage from move speed bonus.
they seem to stack right:

[cunning urchin]

You take Curse of Longing if you start with a Heartbreak build and get Doom in the other slot.

[ancient mauve]

i mean. i just beat hydra. two dashes and each head was gone.

[cunning urchin]

You take Merciful End if you start with Doom or Deflect.

Rush Delivery adds global damage, yes.

[ancient mauve]

and rush delivery accounts for the +100% move speed after dashing it seems

[cunning urchin]

So it affects Doom and even the bonus damage from Merciful End.

You get the bonus damage as soon as you press Dash, in fact.

[ancient mauve]

man if i get at least +3 dashes. i believe i'll break my record.

[cunning urchin]

From the moment you press Dash until the bonus movement speed wears off.

[ancient mauve]

i honestly thing i'll phase the bosses before they're done with their phase animations lol

urge to kill or curse of longing?

[lucid oar]

What weapon?

[ancient mauve]

zag sword

[lucid oar]

Urge probably, both won't do much

[cunning urchin]

The more important question is do you have Impending Doom yet and do you have rerolls?

[ancient mauve]

not yet. and i still have 2 rerolls

[lucid oar]

Roll

[edgy mauve]

roll

[cunning urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/panda-roll-back-roll-cute-animals-gif-5302560

[ancient mauve]

lol same options, this time with that +damage after defiance.

[strange lark]

Nice

[ancient mauve]

urge to kill is epic this time at least

+16%

[strange lark]

Urge to kill I guess lmao

[lucid oar]

Oh that's not too good

Have you got double edge?

[ancient mauve]

double edge?

is that a hammer?

[lucid oar]

Hammer

[ancient mauve]

nope. bad hammers. had to pick world splitter

other options was that lifesteal and the flurry sword

[lucid oar]

Those are like the worst possible hammers

[ancient mauve]

lol yes

[lucid oar]

Maybe dash nova as well

[ancient mauve]

yeah dash nova beats world splitter imo

in being bad

[cunning urchin]

Let's start a petition to bring back Snap Nova. Snap Nova was amazing.

[ancient mauve]

i guess i'll go with urge to kill

i don't think i'll need defiances in this build

[cunning urchin]

You probably spent way more time thinking about this choice than it actually matters tbh lol.

[lucid oar]

I still die on sword sometimes

[cunning urchin]

If you're not losing DDs on sword, you're playing too slow.

[ancient mauve]

piercing wave, shadow slash, dash nova. no crazy luck on hammers.

[cunning urchin]

Piercing.

[ancient mauve]

can't complain. hermes boons were sick.

with the doom stuff.

[edgy mauve]

piercing is good

[ancient mauve]

the wave applies doom i assume?:

[edgy mauve]

no its just good damage

[ancient mauve]

so the wave damage is besides normal attack damage?

[edgy mauve]

see it applies on dash strikes

[lucid oar]

It's going to do more for you than dash nova/shadow slash

[edgy mauve]

its like an extra instance of damage on top of ur dash strike damage

[cunning urchin]

Shadow Slash does nothing for Dash-Strikes.

[lucid oar]

And it's ranged which helps with the eyeballs in elysium

[cunning urchin]

Sword has, like, four hammers.

[lucid oar]

Dedge, piercing, breaching, hoarding?

[ancient mauve]

gotta be kidding

[cunning urchin]

Double Edge, Piercing Wave, Breaching Slash, and "Wow, this does nothing."

[ancient mauve]

longing boon offered thrice in a row

[lucid oar]

Big chop time

[ancient mauve]

should've picked it up only you to open up the options

[cunning urchin]

You should have picked it because it's a Lady Aphrodite boon.

Which means it's one of the very best boons in the game and perfectly perfect in every way.

[edgy mauve]

u cannot trust nyaa to make rational decisions when it comes to aphrodite

[cunning urchin]

Wdym?

[ancient mauve]

fourth time

nah.

turns out duos need to be picked

if nothing else to avoid having effectively -1 options from 2 gods

[cunning urchin]

You don't take boons that do nothing for you just for something like that.

[ancient mauve]

i had it offered from both aphro and hades fourth times in a row.

[cunning urchin]

Ah yes, Hades.

[ancient mauve]

the boon had one effect to me: +1 boon option (which is awesome)

i was with only 2 boon options until i did it

[cunning urchin]

You only take Duo Boons or legendaries that you don't really care for if they improve your odds at getting a Duo Boon or legendary you really need for your build.

[ancient mauve]

in this case it just did.

[cunning urchin]

Otherwise, you take boons that actually do something for you.

[ancient mauve]

i was effectively under a +heat effect. (-1 boon option)

[cunning urchin]

No. Duo Boons are not guaranteed.

It worked out that way this time, but that doesn't mean that taking a Duo Boon just to get it out of the way like this is the right choice.

[ancient mauve]

yeah. i believe i've rejected a duo boon before and it didn't come back.

but this time. come on. 4 times in a row.

lol. record.

20min

previous was 24

[cunning urchin]

Nice!

Go again and make it 19.

[turbid needle]

Nah, Dash Nova is just better Snap Nova.

[cunning urchin]

It's not.

[ancient mauve]

snap nova = jump to target?

[cunning urchin]

Snap Nova was kinda busted.

[ancient mauve]

is "dash" nova an actual "dash"? i mean. does it give you invuln frames?

[cunning urchin]

Snap Nova was like Dash Nova now, but pressing Special again would let you snap back to your original position.

Like instantly, pretty much.

The problem was that it made people actually motion sick.

I think you get i-frames? I haven't picked it in quite a while. @muted plank, does Dash Nova give i-frames at all?

@queen cape could easily check that, probably.

[ancient mauve]

what's a good achilles spear build?

[cunning urchin]

Tidal Dash > Flurry Jab > Lightning Strike + Jolted or Deadly Strike + Hunter's Mark.

If you don't get Flurry Jab first hammer and don't want to reset (like every speedrunner would), it's generally optimal to take anything but a spin hammer because they lock you out of getting Flurry Jab second hammer.

[ancient mauve]

understood

[cunning urchin]

That said, spin builds on Achilles can be a lot of fun.

Getting a high damage Cast is also very nice to supplement your boss damage.

Phalanx Shot, Crush Shot, Trippy Shot, mainly.

[lucid oar]

If your pb is 20 mins, if you use a cast build you can beat that no problem without resetting for hammers

Use electric shot for fast Tartarus' or phalanx shot for quick bosses

[cunning urchin]

Electric Shot can be a nice early pickup if you don't get Lightning Strike.

[ancient mauve]

pb?

[cunning urchin]

Personal best.

[ancient mauve]

i don't think i've ever played a cast build

[lucid oar]

They can be really effective

[turbid needle]

Achilles also does dedicated Cast builds very well.

[cunning urchin]

Might as well try that if you're playing Achilles.

[lucid oar]

Just make sure you pom them a lot

Level 1 casts are kind of sad

[cunning urchin]

There are effective builds for every Cast.

And there is also True Shot.

[lucid oar]

Ah yes

Meh base damage, no AOE and meh pom scaling

[cunning urchin]

True Shot was #1 in Early Access for a time lol.

[lucid oar]

My Poseidon sword PB has true shot lol

Because of mirage shot being a secondary, pommable boon?

[turbid needle]

True Shot is still a very good Cast.

[lucid oar]

I think I watched the haelian EA speedrun of it

[cunning urchin]

It wasn't pommable, I don't think, but yes, and also Fully Loaded was easy to get and +3.

[turbid needle]

Wasn't this also when seeds were used?

[cunning urchin]

But that didn't matter for speedruns at the time since most weren't routed at all.

Just the top runs were pretty much all routed lol.

But there wasn't a lot of competition. True Shot was still very good unseeded, anyway. The seed was just to make sure you started with True Shot.

[lucid oar]

I remember haelians spread fire run being absolutely insane, and I didnt even know about vorime at that point

[turbid needle]

I miss OG Spread Fire.

[cunning urchin]

Haelian's runs were just generally insane in Early Access.

[turbid needle]

When he was young and in his prime.

[lucid oar]

Washed up

[cunning urchin]

lol

He's not that interested in competing anymore. More fun to do other things.

[lucid oar]

Isn't haelian the one that made people realise that tidal dash was core? Or was that someone else

[cunning urchin]

I think it was Duunk0 who first destroyed the leaderboards with the Eris build we all know now.

And then from there, Tidal Dash became more and more common in other builds.

But I never followed the speedrun meta that closely. I've been keeping an eye on their builds always, but I was only interested in high heat.

But yeah, Haelian in early access was essentially the Tailesque of high heat and the tounisu of speedruns all in one person lol.

If you got any WR and he wanted to beat yours, you knew your WR was done for lol.

And then bablo came out of nowhere and snatched all the WRs away for everything.

[edgy mauve]

and then tounis attacked

[molten lichen]

Hello, any tips for a good malphon build? More especifically for talos aspect

[cunning urchin]

First thing, practice canceling your Special into Dash immediately. Like, you press Special and then immediately press Dash. You'll do the pull (and apply the debuff), and then immediately Dash, It will almost look like just a regular dash if you do it fast.

That's the safest way to apply the debuff and immediately abuse the pull by dashing behind the enemy for backstabs.

It skips the Uppercut part.

The pull into Uppercut can still be good in some circumstances (and generally a lot of fun), but it's good to have that in your repertoire. Top Talos players in high heat and speedruns almost always cancel the Special into Dash like that.

Because that's better for DPS, which matters in speedruns, and also much safer for high heat.

That said, "optimal" isn't always the most fun. I know plenty of players who enjoy doing the pull into Special a lot.

As for builds, there are builds that are almost entirely Attack focused with classic Malphon builds like Merciful End (Curse of Agony + Divine Flourish + Divine Dash + Merciful End) and "ZAP" (Lord Zeus Attack, Lady Artemis Special, Poseidon Dash... but for Talos, you do that build without the Special). Those two are the most dominant in speedruns.

Cast-only builds aren't really a thing too much because other aspects just do that way better.

Cast/Attack hybrids are fairly common in high heat.

The top two Talos high heat runs in Early Access were Blizzard Shot + Deadly Strike + Heavy Knuckle. Heavy Knuckle with Deadly Strike and Talos's debuff does some really good damage, and Talos's magnetic pull removes all the downsides of Blizzard Shot. Normally, it pushes enemies out of its AOE a lot, but with Talos, you can pull them right back into it over and over.

[lucid oar]

Is Talos CoD a meme build then

[cunning urchin]

Hmmmm. I wouldn't say that. It was quite decent for high heat in like 40-50 range when me and Resqtoaster played around with it back in Early Access.

But honestly, Talos meta is very underdeveloped.

[lucid oar]

What makes it better than say, Achilles CoD other than the fact that Achilles has way better builds?

[cunning urchin]

Curse of Agony is just generally the best Attack you can get on Malphon.

It also doesn't lock you out of ME.

You can get ME and still get Curse of Drowning.

Which means you can start Curse of Agony and pivot into either one depending on what you get, or you can start Flood Shot and pivot into either Curse of Drowning or Blizzard/Mirage.

Speedruns want to optimize a single build and don't really leave room for error on what you get for the core of your build. Because of their rare consistency, the exceptions to that are staples in multi-weapon runs and races.

Like Hera, which, as long as you get Crush Shot, has a lot of strong options it can go with depending on your Tartarus and doesn't depend on 1-2 specific hammers.

High heat builds are a lot less about optimizing a single build and a lot more about flexibility.

I suspect Curse of Drowning Talos probably sucks for speedruns because it hurts your odds of getting ME and it can't compete with ME for speed.

If you get Curse of Drowning instead of ME at any heat, you reset. If you get either one at high heat, you keep going.

Speaking of that, the reason Talos meta is underveloped is probably just that ME wins at any heat, and Malphon is hard at high heat, so people just go with Demeter Aspect because they're a lot more comfortable with it than trying to figure out Talos on their own.

Hadesprofessor did Lightning Strike + Scintillating Feast, that sounds pretty juicy.

And don't ask me how @muted plank got the Talos WR with whatever this "build" is. https://i.imgur.com/vSmrEss.png

[static karma]

This victory screen baffles me

[cunning urchin]

It's TD2, so that explains a lot of it at least lol.

[static karma]

I don’t see where the damage is except support fire

And dio call

[cunning urchin]

23:25.31.

Support Fire is basically Lightning Strike without Jolted, and he had at least +50% Attack damage from the debuff.

Malphon with Support Fire also builds god gauge very fast.

[static karma]

So each punch does 15 damage instead of 10 or does the +50% attack damage do something else

Fast god gauge makes sense though

[lucid oar]

Support fire doing work

What is the cooldown of support fire?

[cunning urchin]

Same as Lightning Strike, pretty sure.

Whatever it is, you can have Heroic Swift Strike, and it will still proc on all of Malphon's hits.

@molten lichen I hope that helped. Sorry there wasn't an easy answer, but Talos meta hasn't really progressed from what I discovered way back before the game's release, and I know I hadn't really tried out a lot of builds that have good potential.

Drunken Strike + Trippy Shot for Black Out is another build that has decent potential and is worth trying out for sure.

[molten lichen]

Ah, it's alright, I'm a new player anyway so I'll take that to my future high heat runs

[cunning urchin]

I think I only did that once.

[molten lichen]

Only 20 hours into the game so far

[cunning urchin]

There is a meme "ping-pong" build of taking Poseidon Special to pull enemies in and then knock them away with your Uppercut that people like a lot.

But it's not competitive, and I never really liked it.

I can see the appeal, though. Just to memey for me lol.

[proven osprey]

For Talos, the special cancel is important to avoid being vulnerable after it. I really like tidal dash and lightning strike as a core. Support fire is also excellent, athena completes the pool really well

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, I mentioned both the cancel and the build.

I was the one who figured out the cancel, after all. I've been teaching it to people since forever. You think I'd forget?

[proven osprey]

Oh nobody pushed Talos above 51 according to the spreadsheet

[ancient mauve]

after like 15 runs. shield finally thirsts again.

gonna try beowulf again, see if can come to like it.

minotaur rush

it doesn't stack, does it? (with the dragon thing)

because if it does... lol

the other hammers are for special, so i guess i'm going to find out

is aphro the best cast for beowulf?

[cunning urchin]

Indeed. And the only actual Talos build that isn't just "Zag Fists but apply debuff first" since my own runs in Early Access is Hadesprofessor's Lightning Strike + Scintillating Feast.

Maybe I should get back to labbing Talos builds since nobody else is doing that.

Everybody is just like.. Attack build + the Nyaanyaa Cancel ™️.

Which tbf is what I always recommended during Early Access, too, at least until Heavy Knuckle was added and got the buffs it needed and I started going Blizzard + Deadly Strike.

Kind of a bummer looking at the Talos meta and seeing no development outside of one new build lol.

[echo helm]

what boons are required for merciful end again?

[cunning urchin]

Meta is split between Passion Flare and Flood Flare. Passion Flare + Mirage Shot is better than Flood Flare + Mirage Shot, but Flood Flare gets you Mirage Shot more reliably.

[ancient mauve]

mirage shot is what again?

[cunning urchin]

Minotaur Rush is additive damage, so they stack, but additively.

[ancient mauve]

ares and athena. one in attack and the other in special. the order doesn't matter.

[cunning urchin]

Mirage Shot is the Duo Boon from Lady Artemis and Poseidon.

[echo helm]

thabk you!

[cunning urchin]

Your Cast fires a second projectile, though it has reduced damage.
Secondary Shot Damage: 30%

[ancient mauve]

what about 3rd and 4th god?

[cunning urchin]

But in Beowulf's case, this is bugged and the secondary shot does 100% damage of the original Cast.

[lucid oar]

Note on Beowulf the secondary shot deals 100% damage

And also dio cast on Hera

[ancient mauve]

lol

[lucid oar]

Demeter is really good because you can get snow burst and ravenous will

Mainly snow burst is what you want

[cunning urchin]

If you run Passion Flare, it's Lady Aphrodite + Lady Artemis + Poseidon. Fourth god is ideally Lady Demeter for Snow Burst, but anyone will do.

Builds are really just heavily focused on two gods and sometimes three gods, and beyond that you don't usually get to pick who your fourth god is.

[ancient mauve]

bah. zeus.
got aphro and artemis. poseidon didn't show up yet.

single zeus chamber now.

[cunning urchin]

Zeus' Aid is great for Smoldering Air.

[ancient mauve]

yeah i got his call.

so, this beowulf thing. is this a "cast" build?

[edgy mauve]

yeah

[strange lark]

Best build for beowulf is ME

[edgy mauve]

beowulf is a cast weapon

[cunning urchin]

#1 Beowulf build around 1.0 launch was Heartbreak Strike + Heartbreak Flourish + Passion Flare + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air. Which was.. the second build that people called "Mewmew Special" lol.

[edgy mauve]

that sounds

like an interesting build

im assuming before the mirage bug was discovered?

[ancient mauve]

hermes or orpheus' muse

[cunning urchin]

We didn't discover the Mirage Shot bug until very recently. I think it was @queen cape who found that in the code?

So yeah, 1.0 launch was way before we discovered the bug lol.

The build was basically a remnant of my build in Early Access, which was that but with Charged Flight, which did +400% base damage in Early Access instead of +200% now.

So it was completely broken then.

[edgy mauve]

the early access build

[cunning urchin]

And Charged Flight was still a common pick after 1.0 launch because of that, but eventually people just focused on optimizing Cast builds, and you don't see Charged Flight builds anymore.

Except for the odd one here and there just for fun maybe at higher heats.

[ancient mauve]

poseidon attack or dash?

on the beo build

[edgy mauve]

the cast one?

[ancient mauve]

yeah

[edgy mauve]

well attack with push them anyway so dash

[ancient mauve]

don't attack bonuses empower the shield rush?

[edgy mauve]

but if u see special takes it because it harms u the least since u dont even use it imo

[ancient mauve]

i got artemis special for mirage shot

[edgy mauve]

thats what artemis is for

oh....

[cunning urchin]

First of all, Tempest Strike does about as much damage as having literally nothing on Attack.

And the rarity scaling adds about 0% to your Attack.

[ancient mauve]

so poseidon dash?

[cunning urchin]

And poms add about 0% to your Attack.

Tidal Dash is decent.

[ancient mauve]

so artemis attack if i come to be offered it?

[edgy mauve]

tidal dash can sometimes mess u up imo

[ancient mauve]

obviously, besides the duos

[cunning urchin]

Second, Tempest Strike knocks foes away, so then your foes are knocked away, your Casts explode after that, and no one takes damage. Not your enemies because Tempest Strike does no damage and all your Casts whiffed, and not you because you were blocking all damage.

And then everyone will be sad.

But no one will be dead.

[cunning urchin]

Absolutely.

Tidal Dash works best if you have Charged Shot. If you have Passion Flare and want Poseidon for Mirage, the most common pick if you don't have Charged Shot is Tempest Flourish, and the most common pick if you have it is Tidal Dash.

[edgy mauve]

so i was correct!

[cunning urchin]

If you have Flood Flare, you'll want his t2 boons or Mirage over any core boons from him.

I said most common, not best. M not entirely convinced myself that Tempest Flourish is the better choice.

[edgy mauve]

so i was 75% correct!

[cunning urchin]

Where'd you get that number from lol.

[edgy mauve]

idk i just deduct 25%

[ancient mauve]

i'd say 73.81% correct

[edgy mauve]

ima just round that up to 74.01%

[cunning urchin]

That's more specific, so it sounds more plausible than 75%.

[edgy mauve]

;-;

[ancient mauve]

lol

[cunning urchin]

That's actually a cognitive bias lol.

[sterile fiber]

how good is the Aphrodite/Demeter duo

the one where crystal beam tracks you

[boreal prism]

That one's really hard to use effectively

[cunning urchin]

I like it. A lot of people take it once, don't make it work, then call it bad and never use it again.

[boreal prism]

I was running it on lucifer and it was a really funny build at least... I put the crystal behind theseus and then I stood on the other side of him, and no matter where his shield points he gets lazered

[sterile fiber]

my feel is that you take Achilles spear, cast it, rush behind the enemy, and pincer-attack it with you on one end and the beam on another

[cunning urchin]

I don't think it works too well on Achilles, but you can certainly try it.

I don't play Achilles much, though.

[sterile fiber]

oh that was the first and only time I tried that so

[cunning urchin]

If you try Cold Embrace builds and I do, we're already two people.

[sterile fiber]

[boreal prism]

What was your best cold embrace build?

[ancient mauve]

hmm.
hammer vs trial of the gods.
do i get the hammer later if i go trial?

i kind of need the trial. artemis is in it. and i still need the duo

might be my chance.

[boreal prism]

You can usually get hammer later... what level are you in and how many hammers did you get so far

[ancient mauve]

is hammer even that important in beo cast build?

got one hammer run start. minotaur rush.

[boreal prism]

Also you can't get duos in trials

[ancient mauve]

i'm in elysium

second half probably

theseus isn't far

[boreal prism]

If you skip this hammer you have 50/50 chance to be able to buy one in styx store at a high price

[ancient mauve]

is hammer important though for beo?

i kinda wanna go trial regardless

[boreal prism]

Do you qualify for the duo? Trials can't give you duos

[ancient mauve]

i believe i do qualify, got all cores.
attack, special, cast, dash, call
artemis, artemis, aphro, poseidon, zeus

[edgy mauve]

i mean hammer isnt that important for beowulf but at the same charged shot exists

[strange lark]

I would take the hammer

[edgy mauve]

if u dont have cshot probably go for the hammer tbh

[boreal prism]

Yeah I don't think trial will get you anything

[cunning urchin]

It's more that I take it in builds than that I build around it tbh.

[ancient mauve]

ferocious guard

[edgy mauve]

ferocious guard is pretty decent

[ancient mauve]

(and dread flight and ferocious return which i assume are useless)

[cunning urchin]

The most fun was Zeus Aspect with Heartbreak Flourish + Unhealthy Fixation, Aphrodite's Aid + Smoldering Air, and Cold Embrace.

[strange lark]

Yeah just take ferocious guard

[cunning urchin]

Just a lot of casts and enemies and the blitz disc all fighting for you.

And your positioning matters for both your casts and your blitz disc.

[boreal prism]

So many moving parts... sounds fun but very stressful

[ancient mauve]

bah. aphro+artemis duo

[cunning urchin]

Why would you complain about that? Heart Rend is great.

[edgy mauve]

heart rend is great, yeah

[ancient mauve]

well it was an artemis boon. the goal was mirage shot

[cunning urchin]

So picky, and you're not even going for WR.

[ancient mauve]

aaand no poseidon in styx

well it wasn't a particularly lucky runs

can't complain. i've had ridiculously lucky runs

[cunning urchin]

What's your build now?

[ancient mauve]

this, pretty much. nothing else of use.

well. there's the aphro+artemis duo.

but i don't have any +crit chance.

[cunning urchin]

Screenshot.

[ancient mauve]

and the man damage is from casts anyway

how do i post screen here?

[cunning urchin]

You can upload it to an image hosting site like imgur (that's what I use) or to a private discord server, then just paste a direct link to the image.

[ancient mauve]

what's the timer on link posting here?

[cunning urchin]

I half expected that to happen lol.

[ancient mauve]

never done that before

usually just ctrl+v

[cunning urchin]

I dunno, I let a minute pass usually lol.

[ancient mauve]

i pasted it in a private server.

then i right click the image and "copy link" right?

[cunning urchin]

Gotta link the image directly, you linked the message.

[ancient mauve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/840294985177759761/863570268148858890/unknown.png

[cunning urchin]

Oh, your mirror is all wrong.

[ancient mauve]

i don't have anything in the "other side". at all.

[cunning urchin]

Well, "wrong". There's no wrong way to play. But very far from optimal.

[ancient mauve]

well i have some points in the "other" reroll ability

[cunning urchin]

You can use a key to reset the mirror.

[ancient mauve]

yeah i've done it a couple of times.

[proven osprey]

PURPLE

[ancient mauve]

but the purple stuff is usually better imo

save the reroll thing

[cunning urchin]

Literally nothing else to use your keys for except trading up for Nectar or sometimes for the Titan Blood.

[ancient mauve]

i'm still not finished with friending people

[proven osprey]

Olympian's favor

[ancient mauve]

nor with the weapons btw

[proven osprey]

Pretty bad too

[ancient mauve]

isn't 20% pretty solid?

[proven osprey]

Take dark foresight

[cunning urchin]

I'd always keep 15 to trade it for Titan Blood when you see the deal, but otherwise, spend them freely on the mirror to reset it.

[proven osprey]

Gold rooms good

[cunning urchin]

Dark Foresight is totally bonkers, absolutely broken in all the good ways.

[proven osprey]

That's god's pride and it's indeed good

[cunning urchin]

Resetting the mirror and getting better runs = you get more resources more reliably.

[proven osprey]

+40% rare one I maent

[ancient mauve]

oh yeah. i've reset the mirror maybe 5-6 times already, but always only to "swap" my darkness between the reroll options

[proven osprey]

Maent it is, no more edirs

Sigh

[cunning urchin]

Edirs.

[untold vortex]

Yeah, it's not that 40% rare talent is bad, it's just that dark foresight outshines it significantly

[cunning urchin]

Nice.

[proven osprey]

Yo pp man

[strange lark]

Yo astaos

[cunning urchin]

Dark Foresight vs no Dark Foresight is like 1.0 builds vs Early Access builds.

Literally.

For a visual example: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/836223465702817792/Hades_2400.png
https://imgur.com/a/EsKTVVp

One of these has no Dark Foresight, 4 boons, and 240 max HP.

The other has Dark Foresight, 14 boons, and 352 max HP.

[ancient mauve]

i'll swap it out

just beat hades

[cunning urchin]

Both have 6 poms.

[ancient mauve]

i quite came to like beowulf better than before, but not more than, say, ME zag sword/fists or hidden bow.

[sterile fiber]

wow how long was your HP at that number for the 52 heat

[ancient mauve]

i honestly don't know what is more insane, merciful end sword/fists or the hidden bow.

[cunning urchin]

At 51 HP? For like the last few seconds. I stepped on an urn near the end of the fight lol.

[untold vortex]

ME fists

[ancient mauve]

well. the dash+attack on fists strikes twice. isn't it slower than the sword?

but yeah usually i like fists better than the sword

[sterile fiber]

at 4 for the second pic
Or was that someone else

[cunning urchin]

Oh right. That's the run I was talking about lol, was just looking at the wrong HP bar.

[ancient mauve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/840294985177759761/863573719804674048/unknown.png

[cunning urchin]

Those are both my own runs.

Beowulf, like any Cast build, is very greedy for boons and poms. You should try it again with Dark Foresight.

And Gods' Legacy for way better Mirage Shot odds.

[sterile fiber]

Mmm

[cunning urchin]

@ancient mauve mirror should be this but Gods' Legacy instead of Gods' Pride.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/863214211361144832/Hades_3372.png

For Beowulf.

[ancient mauve]

understood. i'll swap out and try.

btw. heroics.
i never see heroics. epic tops. heroics only when demeter gives me the 2-3 upgrades.

[cunning urchin]

You ended your run with so many DDs and HP, you can totally run High Confidence and be fine until much higher heat.

[ancient mauve]

is there a way to get more heroics?

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, those were from an Epic Rare Crop.

Rare Crop, Ambrosia Delight, and exchanges are your only way to get Heroic boons.

[ancient mauve]

most of the time, with my favorite weapons (sword, fists and bow, and rail i guess) i often use no DDs

well

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, then use High Confidence.

[ancient mauve]

90% of the runs i'm offered something like a heroic dash (it's usually dash) in exchange for my existing rare/epic dash.

[cunning urchin]

Even if you don't have the bonus up even half the time, just some of the time is more DPS than none of the time.

[ancient mauve]

but it's always that way. a core boon exchange. always when i've already picked what i want for it.,

i'm never offered a heroic when i have nothing

[cunning urchin]

Gods don't offer heroic boons except as an exchange.

And exchanges are only for Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash.

The only way to get any other boons to Heroic are with Ambrosia Delight or Rare Crop.

You also need an Epic boon to be offered Heroic as an exchange.

[ancient mauve]

mirror like this?https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/840294985177759761/863575771133640774/unknown.png

[cunning urchin]

Yes, exactly.

If you can't upgrade everything to max...

Hmmm.

[ancient mauve]

yeah i probably won't be able to

got 18k darkness

[cunning urchin]

Fiery Presence, Greater Reflex, Infernal Soul, High Confidence, Family Favorite, Dark Foresight, God's Legacy. Max out those first.

Well.

Just pretty much everything tbh but you don't need to put anything into Boiling Blood for Beowulf.

Because it does nothing. You can't lodge your Flares.

Dunno if that's enough to buy the 4th rank of Persuasion if you don't take Boiling Blood.

[ancient mauve]

hm. seems i had just enough to max everything.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/840294985177759761/863576630911041556/unknown.png

[cunning urchin]

Nice.

[ancient mauve]

oo. rama thirsts.

lol.

damage will go up with the fiery stuff.

[cunning urchin]

Well, you just set up your mirror for Beowulf lol.

Aside from swapping Fiery/Shadow and Legacy/Pride, that mirror will be optimal for pretty much every aspect.

And for the odd one out, you'd swap Infernal for Stygian Soul.

[ancient mauve]

really? isn't fiery better for rama?

better than shadow?

and why is legacy>pride for beowulf specifically?

[cunning urchin]

Because Legacy gives you much better odds at getting Mirage Shot, Heart Rend, Mirage Shot, Sweet Nectar, Mirage Shot, Smoldering Air, and Mirage Shot.

[strange lark]

Because you need duo boons for beo

[strange lark]

No because you will be wasting it on the special arrows

[ancient mauve]

oh true story

so shadow and pride and it's basically good for everything?

overall

[cunning urchin]

There's an argument for Fiery for faster Tartarus because you can one-shot a lot of enemies with your Attack instead without bothering with the Special, but m very sure that Shadow is way superior to Fiery on Rama.

But the low heat meta is very underdeveloped for Rama.

[ancient mauve]

hmm. i assume fiery is better for anything that's not a boss

but for the speedrunning meta, shadow takes bosses down faster?

[cunning urchin]

I wouldn't assume Fiery is better for anything that's not a boss. If anything, just in Tartarus. But optimal start at low heat I think is probably Thunder Flourish or possibly Tidal Dash.

Shadow/Fiery and Legacy/Pride are the ones you'll change the most often depending on your build/aspect.

[proven osprey]

Fiery helps reaching thresholds for Tartarus specifically

Sometimes it's not useful

[cunning urchin]

Other ones you'll sometimes change are Infernal/Stygian and very rarely Family Favorite/Privileged Status.

[proven osprey]

Same for backstab

Really depends on what you're playing

[cunning urchin]

At higher heats, Thick Skin will be a lot easier to run than High Confidence.

But right now, you're doing well enough that High Confidence DPS is just too good to pass up. It's +25% global damage.

[ancient mauve]

what goes on rama attack again? aphro for raw damage?

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak or Deadly Strike, yes.

You'll find people arguing for either, but there's no question that those two are the best.

Shackle is also great.

Like strong enough that starting Shackle is at least worth looking into for speedruns.

And it's a very common pick at high heat.

[ancient mauve]

hammer or chaos? hammer i assume?

[cunning urchin]

If you start with Special and see an Epic Frost Strike or Divine Strike, they're both very good, too.

[ancient mauve]

i got dyonisius special

[cunning urchin]

Either is fine. Rama hammers are great, but so is skipping a room and getting Dash-Strike or Attack damage from Master Chaos.

[ancient mauve]

hm. is zeus special good on rama?

haven't tried it.

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

Like I said, I think Thunder Flourish or Tidal Dash start are the most likely to be optimal for speedruns.

Thunder Flourish shreds Tartarus.

But so does Tidal Dash.

[ancient mauve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/840294985177759761/863580875449958410/unknown.png

maimed strike benefits dash attack right?

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

Take that.

Fear is for the weak.

[royal needle]

Whats a good build for beo on 32 heat?

I find that using dio is good for big bursts, but its kinda slow to recharge

I'm not sure which gods cast i should use

[sonic mural]

aphro or posideon cast is good

[cunning urchin]

Same build you'd use at any heat.

Passion Flare into Mirage Shot or Flood Flare into Mirage Shot.

[slow seal]

Athena divine strike with divine dash is literally one of the best builds i have tried

[raw blade]

what weapon

[slow seal]

twin fists

[raw blade]

ah

[atomic bolt]

agree, it compensates the fact malphon makes you be on foes' faces all the time lol

[final pewter]

with Hera cast builds, does charging the shot affect the cast damage at all? Or should I pretty much just be tapping attack to get the cast out

[turbid needle]

it doesnt affect cast dmg

I wouldnt tap it either tho bc thats 0 range

[final pewter]

oh right

but if im like up close nbd

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, snap-release all your shots.

Faster to get Zag next to the enemy and release your shot instantly than to charge your shots.

[final pewter]

and loading multiple shards will activate my cast (lets say athena) x amount of times?

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[final pewter]

okay cool

thx

does having more of the prerequisite boons for duo boons increase chance of duo boon appearing?

[proven osprey]

Nope

But you can fill your core boons slots to increase the odds

[cunning urchin]

@final pewter to be clear, filling all of your priority boon slots (i.e., Attack Special, Cast, and Dash) improves your odds of getting a specific Duo boon only if you're not opening up other Duo Boons with those two gods in the process. Opening up any other Duo Boons hurts your odds a lot.

Filling only some of the priority boon slots does nothing, you only improve your odds once all of them are filled.

If one or both of the gods have a tier 2 status curse (i.e., Jolted, Rupture, Exposed, Hunter's Mark), then picking that t2 curse will improve your odds of getting the Duo Boon. If it's between filling a third priority boon slot and taking the t2 curse, taking the t2 curse will help you more than taking the priority boon (which does nothing yet until you fill the fourth slot, too).

[tiny veldt]

I’ve finally won with every weapon

[untold vortex]

Congrats

[tiny veldt]

Only took about 50 hours 😂😂😢

[untold vortex]

That's pretty good going mate

[magic coral]

gonna try to do it next time i play probably

still gotta win with the ranged weapons

[scenic quiver]

Guys ive killed the first and second boss with all weapons. And killed third with sword. Got 6 titans blood, which one should i upgrade with them. Are all good? Any recommendations? I like melee style weapons more "i think". Although cannon was interesting

[edgy mauve]

i mean nemesis is a good one if u like sword

[lucid oar]

Well "the best" melee weapons are nemesis and Demeter, but Poseidon is good as well

[edgy mauve]

most aspects are good in general

[lucid oar]

And the zag aspects are cheap

[edgy mauve]

if u wanna hit Hard go for the hidden sword aspect

[scenic quiver]

how do you get the third(hidden) aspects? Also can you make like caster/range archetype builds? I assume with Zeus' cast and stuff something like that maybe possible. Is there a weapon that supports that playstyle?

[strange lark]

for the hidden aspects check the pinned messages in #h1-story-discussion

yeah you can make cast builds

[edgy mauve]

there are weapon that support cast

[lucid oar]

Best cast weapons are Achilles, Poseidon, Beowulf and hera

Eris and Talos are technically cast weapons, but not really

[raw blade]

how is eris cast

[edgy mauve]

eris is the everything weapon

[raw blade]

okay yes

[edgy mauve]

eris buffs ur cast

[raw blade]

ah

[edgy mauve]

eris is global

[turbid needle]

It's not more specifically designed to be a Cast weapon like Poseidon, Achilles, or Hera, but it's still very serviceable.

[lucid oar]

It's the best rail cast weapon

[scenic quiver]

Can you possibly unlock all aspects in the game? I currently have 6 titans blood

[lucid oar]

Yes you can, I have them all maxed

I'll say that, after you start beating the last boss consistently, titan blood becomes a lot more readily available

[cunning urchin]

Talos is Attack/Cast hybrid or pure Attack.

[scenic quiver]

I see, alright thank you. Ill go with Nemesis or Demeter as my first unlock.

[scenic quiver]

Also one more question. As a habit of mine from other games, I like dash/dash-attacking/mobility. Is there an aspect that supports that playstyle? Maybe the aspect that pulls you to your spear? Achilles i think that was it

[lucid oar]

For pretty much all aspects, dash striking is better than attacking

But yes, Achilles with flurry jab is an excellent dash strike weapon

[turbid needle]

i havent looked much into builds bc i havent even beat the game but i got the mirror upgrade for more cast supply and i wanted to look into a cast build since they seem easy

[raw blade]

use hera bow with aphro cast

[turbid needle]

hera bow?- im guessing thats a variant of the bow

in which i dont have

[strange lark]

what aspects do you have?

[turbid needle]

pure cast builds usually have a cast supporting weapon behind them

[raw blade]

i dont think any of the zag aspects are good for cast

[turbid needle]

0

[raw blade]

🥴

[strange lark]

how much blood do you have?

[turbid needle]

like 2

[raw blade]

unlock hera

[turbid needle]

I think you could just win with a good cast duo tho

[raw blade]

hera is 2 blood right?

[strange lark]

yeah i think so

[turbid needle]

like hunting blades, or crystal clarity

i dont have aspects unlocked even so imma just keep playing

blizzard shot is good too

[outer quail]

what gods do ppl use with Arthur sword

[edgy mauve]

artemis aphrodite and zeus

heart rend and smoldering

[outer quail]

thank

[final pewter]

@cunning urchin wow thank you for taking the time to that explain that! So when we say filling out the priority boon slots.. are we talking with those two gods of the duo? Or all four being from just one of those gods? I'm not sure what the exact mechanicical effect is behind the scenes once all four are filled up.. is it just cause there's less chance of those slots showing up as boons thus increasing chance of duo boon?

[edgy mauve]

say u ahve aphro attack and arty special going for heart rend if u take aphro cast u now have a higher chance from getting the duo boon from BOTH arty and aphro because i filled up a core slot while not opening up another duo boon because replacements are rare

[final pewter]

Cool, that's what I figured. Thank you so much

[scenic quiver]

Im thinkin of unlocking either Nemesis or Achiles as my first aspect, for my dodgy-dash attack playstyle. Should i upgrade the aspect with all my titans? or leave it at level1?

[edgy mauve]

if u think ur really gonna enjoy it probably max it as titan blood becomes readily more available the better u get and the more u beat the final boss

[cunning urchin]

(1) If all priority slots (i.e., Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash) are empty, fill all three slots with priority boons,
(2) if an exchange is possible, 10% chance to add an exchange to one free slot,
(3) if 2 fails and there are free priority slots, add one priority boon to one slot,
(4) 50% chance to add a tier 2 status curse (i.e., Jolted, Marked, Rupture, or Exposed) to one slot if boon requirements are met,
(5) roll for legendary/duo for each remaining slot,
(6) roll for epic for each remaining slot,
(7) roll for rare for each remaining slot,
(8) fill all remaining slots with common,
(9) fill all remaining slots with whatever is available.

@final pewter

That means in step 3, the gods will always offer a priority boon in one slot if you still have priority slots open.

[raw blade]

getting aphro legendary is so easy

[cunning urchin]

And that means instead of getting three chances at the Duo Boon you want, you only get two.

Because 1 slot is a priority boon.

Similarly, if there's also a boon like Blinding Flash (Exposed) in the pool still, there's a 50% chance that boon will be added to another slot.

[final pewter]

can you slightly elaborate on (2) I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "if an exchange is possible." Do you mean if an exchange is offered?
Edit: wait, do we mean exchange as in swap out the offers or exchange as in gods offer a boon to change out a slot's boon?

[cunning urchin]

If that happens, you can end up with only one chance at the Duo Boon instead of 3.

"Possible" means if you have any Attack, Special, Cast, or Dash from a different god, there's a 10% chance you see an exchange in one slot.

Like, if you have a common Deadly Strike and a rare Divine Flourish.

If you pick up a boon from Lady Aphrodite, there's a 10% chance she'll offer an exchange for one of them.

That would be either a rare Heartbreak Strike or an epic Heartbreak Flourish.

[final pewter]

What determines if an exchange is possible? Having any priority slot filled?

[proven osprey]

10% chance, calls can't be exchanged

It's more likely to get exchanges if you fill your slots ofc

But sometimes you can get unlucky and get one early

[final pewter]

Do we know the escalation of chance?

[cunning urchin]

No.

[cunning urchin]

Yes. Any priority boon from another god can be exchanged.

[cunning urchin]

I don't know what you mean by that.

[proven osprey]

That's not how I meant it sorry. It's just that you won't get a replacement for a boon you don't have (obviously)

I don't know exactly how it works but if you "exhaust" a god's pool you might get more exchanges too

[cunning urchin]

Yes. If after step 8, there are still open slots, the remaining slots will be filled with whatever is available. That generally means exchanges and any eligible Duo Boons or legendaries.

[ancient mauve]

is rush kick hammer good with demeter fists?

[edgy mauve]

options if no options rush kick is decent with dem fists imo

[strange lark]

It's ok

[cunning urchin]

It's... okay.

[ancient mauve]

the others were xêt

i tried rush kick before and i don't like either but it seemed to suck less. i ended up selecting something else for the effect of no hammer basically.

[ancient mauve]

charged shot sounds like an either really good or really bad hammer for beowulf. which is it?

dashing wallop
empowering flight
charged shot

[lucid oar]

Charged shot

When tounisu (a very good Hades speedrunner) was grinding for beowulf sub 6, they would reset if they didn't get charged shot

Because Beowulf has the +100% bull rush damage, and charged shot has 80 base damage, it's very good

[edgy mauve]

really good

[lucid oar]

So get Artemis attack for juicy crits

[cunning urchin]

Charged Shot is the best hammer on any shield, easily.

[ancient mauve]

i restarted just to go get it. worth it.

damage is just lmao-worthy. no boons on attack yet btw.

[lucid oar]

What cast are you using?

[ancient mauve]

artemis

no attack option from artemis boon. got artemis attack to lock the god.

[lucid oar]

Generally, hunter flare isn't that strong because it has such a small aoe

But it's okay

[ancient mauve]

but the projectile sweeps

i don't think i'll miss a end-point aoe.

it sweeps everything in front of me until end-point

[lucid oar]

It is still a circular blast iirc

I think all flares are apart from thunder flare which is pretty much single target

[ancient mauve]

correction

yes. only the "rush" (or the "bullet" in case of the charged shot) damages in a sweep.
the cast(s) is(are) circular at the end-point.

2nd: the shield does block the hydra's head stomps. i didn't test the little lava balls.

[echo helm]

curse of drowning shreds omg

[ancient mauve]

what's a good special to slot in demeter aspect?

[edgy mauve]

id say arty

[ancient mauve]

poseidon dash?

zeus attack?

explosive upper good?

vs draining cutter / long knuckle

[strange lark]

Explosive upper

[strange lark]

It can work but I feel like it will be hard to land your punches

[strange lark]

Yes

[ancient mauve]

what do you slot into dash? arty?

[strange lark]

I usually go aphro dash for heartrend and smoldering

[ancient mauve]

hm. makes sense.

[edgy mauve]

i mean the absolute best build for fists is merciful end

ares attack athena special get ME get athena dash and hopefully impending

its alot of damage

[echo helm]

what aspect did you use for that build? I wanna try it out

[edgy mauve]

what ME?

[strange lark]

Any fist aspect for ME

[edgy mauve]

best fists is normally considered Demeter but any fists work absolutely fantastic with ME

[strange lark]

Sword can also work with ME

[echo helm]

I'll try it with the fists first then sword

[ancient mauve]

but why get demeter for ME if you won't be using the special?
why not get the dodge?

[edgy mauve]

because dash will proc ME

[ancient mauve]

exactly

it's attack+dash. no special.

[edgy mauve]

but ur still using the special with demeter

[ancient mauve]

you mean after the dashes?

[edgy mauve]

yeah because its gonna be empowered and u want that damage

fists is a melee weapon that dash attacks alot so if u slap ME on it the playstyle on fists will do more damage than about any other build u can think of because ME is good

and u grab athena special because dash isnt a prereq for ME only special since ur putting doom on attack

@ancient mauve

[ancient mauve]

understood

is flurry shot good on hera?

[edgy mauve]

yeah

[strange lark]

It's the best hammer for hera

[edgy mauve]

just be careful cause u can lose ur casts

[ancient mauve]

oo. +1 cast from chaos

i guess i'm pretty set

aphro cast, flurry shot, 4 casts

[cunning urchin]

You'll want Twin, Triple, or Flurry on Hera.

Take the Frostbitten Horn into Asphodel and get Snow Burst.

[ancient mauve]

nice. rarity upgrade from demeter caught crush shot

now pom crush ad infinitum?

[ancient mauve]

what horn is that?

[sterile fiber]

Demeter keepsake

[ancient mauve]

oh cool

well i committed a mistake and forgot to swap keepsake. but got demeter luckily.

what attack?

chain shot/sniper shot/charged volley.
all useless?

[rare tusk]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdoredOffensiveHoki-mobile.mp4

Hehe Blizzard Shot go brrrrr

Spoiler: He lived

[ancient mauve]

is that achilles spear?

[strange lark]

You can go artemis attack for mirage shot

[strange lark]

Yeah

[strange lark]

Yeah those are pretty bad

[abstract sage]

is there like a handy chart for optimal builds for each weapon/aspect

[strange lark]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/826899445144092672

This is an all aspects guide made by pengy

[final pewter]

Reviewing some of the advice from earlier, so if going for a duo boon, best thing to do is just fill the priority boons asap

[arctic oyster]

Which build is the best build for a new player

[sonic mural]

favorite aspect?

[arctic oyster]

Bow

[sonic mural]

aspect, not weapon

[edgy mauve]

aslong as it doesnt open another duo, pretty much yeah

[final pewter]

If i have twin shot and load up one cast... does it duplicate the cast?

[untold vortex]

Sadly, no

[final pewter]

I mean.. thats fair lol

[untold vortex]

That would incredibly busted (and I'd also love it)

[final pewter]

huh... just had a Hades fight where he didnt set any of those green traps... sup with that? Isn't he suppose to do it every run

[steel swan]

the jars you mean?

[final pewter]

yeah

[steel swan]

[final pewter]

He did at least two cycles of his lasers...

[turbid needle]

he can just miss them

[final pewter]

gosh if there's a way to manipulate the odds of him not throwing them out, I would be all over that

[turbid needle]

not that I know of

[pastel root]

Is there a site where i can see builds and what keepsakes and mirror talents i should choose?

[turbid needle]

there isnt like a full guide that im aware of

but you can just ask in here

[pastel root]

Okay, well it would just be nice if there was a guide most of the youtube videos are pretty bad. Will have to ask here then thanks!

[turbid needle]

theres speedrun guides to specific aspects I know but not more than that

[floral trout]

With aspect of Eris on the rail, if you absorb the special blast does the bonus damage apply to any sort of damage you yourself do or does it apply to all forms of damage to enemies (hangover, zeus bolt, etc.)

[lucid oar]

It's pretty much all damage that you do, so it includes attack damage, DOT damage like hangover, but not damage from companions

[floral trout]

oh wow that sounds borderline busted

and I thought Hestia was busted

[lucid oar]

Yep Eris is probably the most busted weapon in the game overall

It's held almost all of the speedrun records since v1.0

[crude nova]

Which of the rails is good at level 1? Trying to figure out what to spend my titans blood on while I'm still too early into this

[edgy mauve]

Eris is really nice

[arctic oyster]

Oh aspect of nemesis

[edgy mauve]

and ur looking for a beginner build?

[arctic oyster]

Yeah

[edgy mauve]

heart rend is probably a good build for nemesis

[arctic oyster]

Whats that??

[edgy mauve]

artemis aphrodite duo

u want artemis attack aphrodite special and then u grab heart rend and u wanna get hunters dash or passion dash after u get heart rend or whichever u prefer of those two dashes

[arctic oyster]

Ok thank you

[languid forum]

charged skewer or quick spin? on guan yu

[strange lark]

charged skewer

[languid forum]

ty

[pastel root]

I want to do a 16 heat run, but i'm wondering what mirror of night talents and what pact of punishments i should choose to make it

[strange lark]

but i indeed

[jovial fulcrum]

then do a 16 heat run

[strange lark]

aspect?

[pastel root]

I'm thinking the gun

[strange lark]

aspect?

[pastel root]

uhhhhh, i heard the one where you absorb you're special is best

[strange lark]

ok

[jovial fulcrum]

EM2 is pretty good to take

[static karma]

Eris can take damage control decently

[jovial fulcrum]

TD1 is also pretty easy. You could probably do TD2 honestly, but idk how experience you are

BP1 is good.
BP2 can get hairy sometimes

[static karma]

BP2 can produce some nasty combos especially in Tartarus and elysium

[jovial fulcrum]

speedster savior great shield

[static karma]

Underworld customs is pretty easy usually

You do need to remember it exists though for choosing rooms

Middle management mini bosses aren’t that much harder except mega gorgon

[jovial fulcrum]

yeah, keeping a reroll in the bag is probably necessary for UC.

I try to keep one at least

[static karma]

That and having some boons you don’t mind selling, at least one

[jovial fulcrum]

LC4 and SD

[static karma]

EM3 is worth learning if you want to push heat

EM3 is difficult though

[jovial fulcrum]

the hardest part of EM3 is Asterius mid boss lol.
IMO at least.

the arena is so much smaller than the end boss arena

[static karma]

With EM3 you pray for butterfly ball

[pastel root]

Okay thanks, what should i choose on my mirror of night?

[jovial fulcrum]

not as much stuff to block the charges either

[static karma]

Dark foresight

[pastel root]

Okay thanks guys!

[static karma]

I also prefer fated persuasion over authority and persuasion is meta too

Glad to help, good luck!

[pastel root]

Oh and what keepsake should i use?

[strange lark]

start zeus

[jovial fulcrum]

or posiden

[strange lark]

nah start zeus

[jovial fulcrum]

zeus attack, posiden dash

[strange lark]

poseidon in asphodel

then acorn in elysium and styx

[jovial fulcrum]

I'm a pleb that tries to force Zeus/Aphro all the time, so that's what I want to say lol

[pastel root]

Thanks for the help guys, think i got a good idea on how to do it!

[jovial fulcrum]

good luck.

if it doesnt work out post your pact and we can work on it again then.
or anyone can help really lol.

[pastel root]

died to the bone hydra (last phase) i would say my build was good just took to much damage, need to get better at dodging.

[olive harness]

I have all the "cheap" mirror upgrades, 3 death defiance, all the good stuff. any thoughts on what to dump darkness into for the last three skills? fated persuasion seems best to guarantee decent builds, but god's legacy helps me clear fated list stuff.

dark foresight seems best but I still need meta currency so I'll worry about that one later, olympian favor isn't too expensive and more rare boons is always nice 🤔

[cinder mist]

Does the Zeus/Poseidon duo boon (whatever it's called) have an internal cooldown, or can it work well with weapons that do a lot of simultaneous hits, like Chiron bow or chaos shield?

[olive harness]

I clear most runs, still on < 3 heat for all weapons, just curious what people think. at least one in fated persuasion seems worth for sure

that'd be sea storm

no idea if there's a CD sorry 😛

[cinder mist]

Fated persuasion is amazing in my book since it's an anti-frustration tool. "I wanna try this weapon with this thing" is so much more fun when you can reroll to up your chances

[cunning urchin]

There's a cooldown, but Tempest Flourish with Sea Storm is very very good.

[olive harness]

yeah I'm definitely getting at least one in that, and my next house contractor upgrade is going to be +1 dice when you get keys

[cunning urchin]

Chiron speedruns go Tidal Dash > Tempest Flourish > Sea Storm.

With either Electric Shot or Zeus' Aid to unlock Sea Storm.

[cinder mist]

I'm a bit sketchy on names still. Tempest Flourish, is that the special?

[cunning urchin]

That's Poseidon's Special, yeah.

[cinder mist]

I've done a few runs now where I've gotten Tidal Dash + Sea Storm, which is really fun, but sometimes I'd like to kill stuff with my weapon as well 😛

[cunning urchin]

Flourish is always Special.

Strike is Attack.

[cinder mist]

Right.

So basically, the answer to my first question is that it will only zap them once when the arrows from Chiron hits, but it's still a good build to go for with Tidal Dash?

[olive harness]

alright I looked up the prices and I'll get a couple in fated persuasion first, how about olympian favor (easier runs) vs gods' legacy (finish fated list sooner)?

[outer quail]

up to you if you want to do the fated list first or work on your runs first tbh. either are an ok priority

i like fated list cuz i like the rewards lol

[olive harness]

I need to figure out what to dump titans blood into too, it's any 5 invested per weapon to start on hidden aspect?

[outer quail]

ye

[olive harness]

yeah the duo boons reward is pretty crazy, I guess going for that first is pretty legit

I should probably worry more about prioritizing titans blood, mirror is cheap to reset

[cinder mist]

I watched Haelian's weapon guides to decide what I wanted to dump my blood in recently - maybe not so much to follow his recommendations even tho they seem good, but to get the ins and outs of the aspects explained so I could make an informed decision. Reading the comments is also good to hear the thoughts of other players.

[olive harness]

chaos shield is the only one I know for sure I like

yeah, his content is dope. I watched the mirror video

[cinder mist]

He has a video for each weapon, they're fun to watch

[olive harness]

his 6 easiest builds vid seriously helped me understand how to work through a run, I haven't played hades since dec 2019, just started again this week. I never used to understand how the boons worked but now I get it so clearing a run is pretty easy unless I get bad luck or screw up on a room and die too early

I'll chekc those out thanks

hmm, you can only get 4 gods per run right? unless you force a 5th or 6th with keepsakes?

once you get a god, even if you sell their only boon, they stay in the pool? I tried to test it last run but I couldn't sell until near the end so I'm no tsure if it worked or not

[proven osprey]

they do stay in the pool

[cinder mist]

I just came back recently too 🙂 And yeah, from what I understand it's the way you describe it

4 gods, more to the pool with keepsakes, even if you sell they stay.

[proven osprey]

game tends to lock your god pool at 4. You can get to 5 "naturally" with a shop and force more to have everyone

but usually you want to stay at 4

[cinder mist]

Also one thing to note about investing Blood - some Aspects work really well even at level 1, while some really require blood invested to work at all. Shield of Chaos for example sucks without Blood, but Shield of Zeus works fine at level 1, as well as most of the hidden aspects.

[proven osprey]

4 not not including hermes

[cinder mist]

So I'm prioritizing the ones that need blood to function and seem fun first, and will work on the other ones later (even tho I still play them)

[olive harness]

yeah there was another youtuber with a video that talks a bout one point wonder weapons, its a bit old but seems accurate

[cinder mist]

My strategy atm is just to take whatever weapon has the increased Darkness to grind Mirror and higher heat, and spend my blood to get one fun Aspect of each weapon maxed out to begin with

[olive harness]

chiron bow and chaos shield are the most obvious uses of blood so far

[cinder mist]

Yeah, Fist of Demeter also really needs it

And is fun

[olive harness]

I was going to use the same strategy, pump blood into one aspect per weapon

[cinder mist]

Btw, what I did was to do my initial heat runs with just one Pact at a time, and constantly new ones. Getting that Fate for all pacts filled gives you 15 blood which is awesome.

[olive harness]

I guess whichever weapons have a good one point wonder aspect are good to leave or later

ah nice, I'll stop picking the same ones

[cinder mist]

Good to test them out too, some of them are completely horrible and you really don't wanna combine them with other stuff heh

[olive harness]

I need the fate for all the mirror talents too

yeah

the timer one is annoying I'm still too slow, forget to pause when I'm thinking ahaha

[cinder mist]

Like, I doubt I'll ever do the "traps do 500% damage" voluntarily again

[olive harness]

ugh no thanks

I'm clumsy

[cinder mist]

Same

[olive harness]

hmm which boon lowers trap damage by a percentage, I should start with that gods keepsake for that run

[cinder mist]

Timer felt daunting at first, but I've realized I run much quicker than I think. Even on runs that have taken me 35 minutes I still beat the first timer

Athena I think, don't quote me tho

[olive harness]

yeah, just found on wiki

[cinder mist]

Basically the thing with the timer: Your extra time when you finish each level gets transferred to the next

So you get 9 more minutes + whatever you had left over

[olive harness]

yeah, I can clear in 9 mins easy if I don't do dumb styff like look through a menu for 30 seconds while the timer counts down lol

[cinder mist]

Meaning it's way more lenient than it seems. You can blast through the first area with 4 minutes to spare, suddenly you have 13 minutes for Asphodel which is really short, and then you're at 17 minutes for Elysium without even trying

[lucid oar]

That's sure footing from athena

[cinder mist]

So then you can play carefully in Elysium and still have plenty of time to spare

[olive harness]

thanks

@lucid oar

[cunning urchin]

Dark Foresight is the most impactful talent by far out of those.

[olive harness]

Yeah totally, but the cost scales quite a bit. I was thinking of getting two levels and then grabbing the other stuff 🤔

I can see just maxing it first being best though

[cunning urchin]

I would reset the mirror, so that you can put more into Dark Foresight and the most important ones.

It's that good.

[olive harness]

I think I'm just short of the second level of dark foresight

Was going to reset when I have enough darkness though. Hmm, actually, I can just reset every time I have enough for another level. While I'm saving up 3k for level three I can pump one of the cheaper skills

Probably duo/legendary to work on my fates

[cunning urchin]

Get only 2 DDs instead of all 3, and save some Darkness elsewhere. That should let you max out Dark Foresight.

[olive harness]

Ohhh I'm dumb lol dark foresight isn't what I thought it was lol derp

[cunning urchin]

Were you thinking of Persuasion?

[olive harness]

Yeah, whoops