if your going for doom on sword then you should use ME
#h1-builds-and-combat
fading nymph
uncut glacier
Theres also hunting blades that also sounds good for dps dont know if its good for sword thou
jaunty barn
what build should I use for excalibur?
turbid needle
aphro or artemis atk divine dash
jaunty barn
what about the special?
strange lark
if you are going to use artemis attack with divine dash you can get athena special for deadly reversal
jaunty barn
aight thanks
timber coyote
rama build?
strange lark
artemis attack, aphro special, artemis dash, heartrend
get chaos dash strike or attack boons
and you should also get triple shot and point blank shot
silk hearth
errr
for rama u dont have to force heart rend
dio and zeus are good on special too
strange lark
yeah for high heat ill use dio or zeus on special
but on a normal run ill use aphro on special
cunning urchin
I'd rather have Heartbreak Strike with Hangover, Doom, or Lightning on Special.
timber coyote
This kinda belongs here and i want to know im about to get 3 titans blood (6 diamonds from all aspects prophecy and i want to know which hidden aspects are the most fun. I have all discovered except giglamesh (but i dont really like fists anyways soooo) but need to unlock them. I have lucy rama and beowulf already so out of Guan Yu and Arthur which one is more fun? Or are they both meh and i should upgrade something else with that like nemesis (like actually why tf is nemesis so fun)
silk hearth
its up to playstyle
arthur is slow and guan yu is probably faster
u can try the weapons out by just unlocking them, then giving up if u dont like it
timber coyote
Is arthur slow but big damage or just slow
silk hearth
big damage
strange lark
i like guan yu more
timber coyote
u can try the weapons out by just unlocking them, then giving up if u dont like ...
ooooo ima try this thanks :)
strange lark
but yeah its up to your playstyle
timber coyote
also by my keepsakes atm you can tell which builds and gods i use lmao
timber coyote
yeah, i aint that far in yet only got 3 clears so i aint worried about that yet
silk hearth
ic lol
timber coyote
ah yes when i want to get some easy titans blood i can go back to my roots and go zeus shield and me lol
sterile fiber
there are rewards for unlocking all the regular aspects, and also getting to the final arena with each hidden aspect (you don't have to win)
silk hearth
congrats :D
strange lark
nice
mossy finch
wait is there not an achivement or did i just miss it
silk hearth
there isnt
strange lark
yeah
silk hearth
its quite hard so not all players can get it
strange lark
yeah
mossy finch
that deserves an achivement imo
strange lark
just like how there isnt an achievement for 32 heat
silk hearth
imo its understandable why its not an achievement
ehhh i would like there to be an achievement for 50 heat but it is kinda oof to the others who cant
lol
mossy finch
i see we have different perspectives on what an achivement should be
mossy finch
i think there should be an achivement for anything that is both hard and unique
silk hearth
i guess because hades is more focused on the story
so imo its better to leave it out
mossy finch
yeah but like
i did em4
and the game kinda just acted like it didnt matter
it would be cooler if it was something like pantheon 5 from hollow knight
sterile fiber
I'd say it's a P5 all bindings parallel
silk hearth
EM4?
sterile fiber
yeah
silk hearth
maybe because im bad at hk, but i dont think theyre comparable
sterile fiber
Like the extra hard stuff that doesn't give an achievement
sterile fiber
*nods in being stuck at P4
sterile fiber
I meant how the game treats it reward-wise, not difficulty
mossy finch
oh ok
i was gonna say, top players cant even do p5 all bindings well and im just some guy who sucks at hades and beat em4 on his 3rd attempt
sterile fiber
amusingly, my first impression of hades is "hollow knight pantheon but with extra steps"
silk hearth
lots and lots of extra bindings
sterile fiber
but you unbind them at semi random
silk hearth
but you unbind them at semi random
im confused
sterile fiber
following your analogy
you start with lots of extra bindings but receive semi random buffs along the way
vale oasis
Does ME works with chaos shield? Or is there something better?
silk hearth
ah
mossy finch
Does ME works with chaos shield? Or is there something better?
there are better things
if you are confident in your ability to keep a boss in one spot i would suggest zues sheild with doom attack and athena special
vale oasis
if you are confident in your ability to keep a boss in one spot i would suggest ...
Well thats kinda hard ngl :kek:
mossy finch
but in the end if you want to run merciful end chaos is not the right pick because the interval between being able to do a bull rush with sheilds is too high
and you might as well let doom activate by itself instead
vale oasis
but in the end if you want to run merciful end chaos is not the right pick becau...
Yeah, i actually tried once and worked but it didn't feel right
mossy finch
if you want to use merciful end effectively you need to find something where you can deflect and inflict doom in a shorter amount of time than it takes doom to activate
vale oasis
if you want to use merciful end effectively you need to find something where you...
Athena dash works well i think
silk hearth
fists is the best user of ME
not sure which aspect though, spamming dash attacks to use ME
silk hearth
thats nice
silk hearth
cant help with that sadly i dont use chaos shield
silk hearth
if u dont like it, its better to stop imo
vale oasis
I will have to use it someday though
mossy finch
if you want to use sheild go beowulf
its busted, especially with trippy flare
also a fair warning on fists merciful end: the build is pretty garbage up until you actually get merciful end
silk hearth
I will have to use it someday though
not really
u dont have to use shield at all if u dont like it
cunning urchin
i see we have different perspectives on what an achivement should be
That's their reasoning, anyway. They answered that in an AMA or #ask-supergiant before. They want the achievements to be attainable for more casual players, too. The more hardcore players will do the more hardcore stuff regardless just for the challenge.
vale oasis
u dont have to use shield at all if u dont like it
Fair enough
mossy finch
before you give up on sheild do at least try beowulf
cunning urchin
Keep in mind they have an existing fan base from previous games, and none of them required the kind of commitment you need to do something like 32 Heat in Hades.
You can just ignore the Special on Zag Shield and Beowulf.
cunning urchin
also a fair warning on fists merciful end: the build is pretty garbage up until ...
Curse of Agony itself beats every other Attack boon on Malphon in DPS.
mossy finch
no it doesnt?
cunning urchin
Yes, it absolutely does.
mossy finch
are you constantly dash striking?
vale oasis
So which aspect should i get for fists?
cunning urchin
Demeter Aspect.
mossy finch
um well if your doing merciful end then gilamesh
cunning urchin
Demeter Aspect is easily #1.
mossy finch
yeah but not for merciful end if thats the main source of damage
cunning urchin
Yes, for ME, too.
vale oasis
Kinda of a noobie question but how can i get trippy flare and not trippy shot @mossy finch?
mossy finch
Im having trouble believing you because you just said doom fists was a good idea
mossy finch
Kinda of a noobie question but how can i get trippy flare and not trippy shot <@...
its exclusive to having aspect of the beowulf equiped
vale oasis
Okk, and how should i play with this aspect? Like, attack pattern and movements
vale oasis
lol
mossy finch
and make sure to load your cast into your bull rush all the time
and make sure the bull rush ends on the enemy because thats where the flare happens
vale oasis
and make sure to load your cast into your bull rush all the time
All the casts at once?
Any other boons i should take btw?
mossy finch
charged shot (hammer upgrade) is good but its also really boring
mossy finch
All the casts at once?
id run stygian soul
cunning urchin
Gilgamesh is perfectly viable for most content and can be quite fun, but it's also a contender for worst aspect in the game.
mossy finch
also depending on how commited you are to trippy flare demeter and zueses duos are pretty nice
cunning urchin
Meta builds for Beowulf are Infernal Soul with Passion Flare or Flood Flare and Stygian Soul with Trippy Flare.
vale oasis
also depending on how commited you are to trippy flare demeter and zueses duos a...
aight
vale oasis
Meta builds for Beowulf are Infernal Soul with Passion Flare or Flood Flare and ...
thanks
mossy finch
check victory boasting really quick
i sent an image of my average beowulf run
things crossed out are garbage boons i picked up on the way
cunning urchin
That channel isn't for that. You can upload images to something like imgur or a private discord server and link them here. Discord will embed the image.
cunning urchin
¯_(ツ)_/¯
@mossy finch as for whether I "constantly Dash-Strike" or whatever, I wrote a quick Demeter Aspect guide here that you can take a look at if you like: #h1-builds-and-combat message
mossy finch
i agree, but doom attack sucks on fists without merciful end
mossy finch
hangover is better
harsh creek
Gilgamesh is perfectly viable for most content and can be quite fun, but it's al...
thank god I’m not the only one who struggled so much with gilgamesh. It was so hard for me to activate the abilities I’m surprised I cleared a run with it.
The extra dash was great cause I got ares for my dash+ cast and I barely used the actual attack
astral bear
Being honest i play gilgamesh for the dashes alone, i struggle executing maim so i barely do it
lucid oar
hangover is better
Hangover sucks even more than doom w/out ME, you have to get full stacks for it to do any damage which slows you down, with doom you can tag enemies once then they die, while you get the next one
cunning urchin
Even on single targets, Doom goes even with Lightning Strike and Heartbreak Strike.
And for multiple targets, it's only really between Lightning Strike and Curse of Agony.
sterile fiber
How good is Ares special on Rama
cunning urchin
Potentially optimal. Lightning, Doom, and Hangover are all great on Rama.
On Special.
mossy finch
if you get more special arrows lightning is easily better
cunning urchin
That would mean taking Relentless Volley over better options, though.
I think Doom on Rama is easily #1 if you have DC2. Not really sure without it since I don't actually run Rama below like 40ish, and I always take DC2 for it then. @mighty ermine is the expert on all things Rama, though.
But typically, you start with Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike, and then you just take whichever you see first out of Hangover, Doom, and Lightning for your Special.
I know @turbid needle likes Drunken Flourish start, though.
mighty ermine
yeah i'd say zeus, dio, and ares are all pretty close in terms of being good on special as a supplement to your attack
cunning urchin
Well, to be perfectly honest, Rama can go boonless for the whole run with just Shackle and still do a lot of damage lol.
cunning urchin
yeah i'd say zeus, dio, and ares are all pretty close in terms of being good on ...
But which one is the best, oh mighty Star Fox? 
mighty ermine
hmm 
i guess they each excel in different situations, like ares maybe being the best in a case where you don't get secondary boons on top or plan to pom it (and it's high rarity), while zeus is mostly fine until double strike makes it actually do respectable damage on its own
and then dio with poms in it always just works
it's honestly hard for me to decide which one would be overall best
cunning urchin
Probably something we'd have to parse.
Or I guess just have a large number of Rama speedruns and see what build wins lol.
Sub 8 runs are:
3x Thunder Flourish
1x Curse of Pain
1x Heartbreak Flourish
Rama RTA WR is 15:21. @mighty ermine easy grabs?
At least that's the #1 on the leaderboard.
mighty ermine
i would need to brush up hardcore on RTA, and the game in general lol
haven't played much recently
cunning urchin
I think you could get it very quickly, actually. RTA is more consistent than IGT since free rooms aren't as free anyway.
It's funny that I feel bad about my "slow" 14:35 with Hera when it's still #20 overall for RTA on the leaderboard lol. I guess that's what a "crushing" 13:38 defeat does to you. 
And my IGT PB with Hera is "pretty bad". (read: tied with bablo at 15th for Hera).
turbid needle
oh yeah I rly like dio because I feel like it gives me ez tart
also makes me ignore speeder savior stuff
opal lodge
lapis has recently been running hunter dash shackle for rama igt/rta
unless they find epic aphro atk
cunning urchin
I mean their recent Rama runs.
opal lodge
force hunter dash into aspho, take epic aphro attack, otherwise take shackle into ely
i think they were grinding for sub 7 but mightve changed course
they do mosty bowo
cunning urchin
I've seen them post some modded bowo and stuff recently.
Yeah.
Well, not really "and stuff" lol.
rigid iris
What kind of boons or aspects should I be investing to for easy clears? I’ve found I really like Athena, and I have my death defiances maxed, even if I’ve never actually cleared Elysium
cunning urchin
#h1-for-new-players is probably better if you want to avoid spoilers. There's a newbie build guide that I wrote that's pinned in that channel. That might help get you started with some decent builds from which you can explore your options without too much hand holding.
rigid iris
Thank you so much!
cunning urchin
If you have any questions after that, ask away. Ideally in #h1-for-new-players since that channel is free of spoilers. Specifically: the final boss and anything after that needs to be spoiler-tagged there, but in the other channels, people can talk about those things openly.
turbid needle
Which spear is the best
weary ridge
Best for what? 🙂
turbid needle
For a good spear experience
weary ridge
maybe zag spear w/ exploding launcher, i find that fun
weary ridge
achiles+any cast or maybe hades and spin alot 🙂
turbid needle
I’ll just go guan yu
weary ridge
lol
turbid needle
gy is nic
cunning urchin
I think Guan Yu and Hades are the most consistent.
Well, and Achilles if you do a Cast build, I guess.
But otherwise, Achilles and Zag Spear are great if you get Flurry Jab, and.... well if you don't get Flurry Jab, they are spears, I guess?
real crest
I’ll just go guan yu
This is the best way of making choices that you think you're not sure of,
Do something where you will receive an option and if you go eehhh maybe not (or something feels off or you don't want to it anything like that) then take it out if the pool of options, if not keep it in the pool ,continue untill you have the smallest amount you can reduce it to it will usually be one of it's not then just truly randomise or take the next suggestion
This is because your subconscious knows more than you and sometimes being my given options in that way makes it easier for your subconscious to affect the consious
cunning urchin
I like taking what seems like the worst option sometimes to try to see how I can make the most of it and maybe learn some things that way.
real crest
Thats something good to do but I'm more talking about finding out what you actually want to do deep in your subconscious, after you've done that then what you said is something great to do and enjoyable too
cunning urchin
I dunno about all that about the "subconscious" knowing more than "you" and stuff.
lucid oar
What are good boon combos for Hades spear?
ME is good, also deadly strike
turbid needle
ME?
Like usually I just find what’s seems op online but I could try finding what I’d actually like/find enjoyable
ME is that one duo boon everyone mentions lol
Wait, gonna googs it
opal lodge
the speedrun strat is merciful end
though serrated deadly strike is also good
or just slap on zeus attack and tidal dash and hope for the ebst
deadly flourish + charged/explosive launcher is a personal fav of mine
turbid needle
I see
boreal prism
hmm
the swings are slow, but the weapon is very fast
if that makes any sense
lambent plume arthur is something everyone's gotta try once
unkempt pagoda
try dashing in-between attacks in the combo, might help
makes the weapon a lot more mobile than it seems
though i guess mobility doesn't necessarily equate to speed
cunning urchin
I have a lot more fun with Excalibur leaning into the damage reduction and big hits than trying to speedrun.
And making full use of Hallowed Ground.
opal lodge
i agree
silk hearth
yea its good when i wanna go slow
opal lodge
all parts of excaliburs kit are sick
dashing between hits of the combo is good
so is dash strike canceling
but that might be a bit hard
who knows
silk hearth
whats dash strike cancelling
opal lodge
if you time your dash strike correctly you can do 2 back 2 back
more if you have more dashes
let me see if i can find a clip
silk hearth
so is that 2 dash strikes per dash?
opal lodge
nah its just fast ones
silk hearth
oh
opal lodge
here it is with epic dashes
you can do it just by holding down attack and dashing repeatedly too
silk hearth
oo
thats cool
but i find it really hard to land dash strikes on sword
since its so narrow
is it only with arthur that u can cancel dash strikes
opal lodge
yeah this is mostly arthur tech
you can also do stuff like attack storage but that's super niche
silk hearth
icic
silk hearth
wow world ender looks so cool, but its not that good for nemesis since its better to DS right
getting the hang of landing my DS now
dashing through them is a lot easier compared to dashing side to side
opal lodge
its better to DS on every sword tbh
fading nymph
Arthur=big number
long quarry
Made my first escape with Sword thanks to King Arthur yesterday! Liked it a lot. I wonder if I didn't miss story dialogue with the endboss though, because he talked about the weapon rather than the plot…?
cunning urchin
You can't miss dialogue.
jovial fulcrum
Quick Spin or Massive Spin on Hades?
Other hammer is Explosive launcher. Attack is Deadly Strike
lucid oar
All 3 are good in different ways
jovial fulcrum
No, as in
I have Exploding
jovial fulcrum
the third choice is Extending Jab
lucid oar
The spin ones are better
lucid oar
It's not much of a difference what one you should take, I would take massive spin because of big numbers, but quick spin is also really good
jovial fulcrum
With FO2, I'm leaning towards quick
lucid oar
Yep that's the best choice in this case
proven osprey
Massive imo
silk hearth
its better to DS on every sword tbh
its the same with spear right
proven osprey
But yeah spin hammers are not that great on Hades
silk hearth
oh wait theres some flurry jab on achilles that i heard of hm
proven osprey
Yeah on non flurry jab spears you dash strike
boreal prism
Doesn't massive spin also make your spin faster? I vaguely remember something like that
I guess since the range increases you don't have to charge up as long to get the same size
jovial fulcrum
Dang, yeah that makes sense
proven osprey
It's quick spin that allows you to charge faster and have a better recovery. Massive is damage and extra range
silk hearth
^
boreal prism
Yeah but I mean implicitly
proven osprey
Yeah
boreal prism
Like, if you have a numbskull that's a certain distance away, if you have massive spin you'll be able to charge a spin that can hit it faster than you would without massive spin
proven osprey
Tbh I'd just dash strike :D
scarlet yoke
Quick charges to max faster than massive charges to normal, doesn't it
proven osprey
Quick deletes a level of charge in the process so it would be around the same maybe? Should test
boreal prism
I mean I would be surprised if massive was faster than quick
But in a pinch, you can use massive as if it was quick and get a similar effect
lucid oar
Quick spin reduces the full spin charge up by more than half according to the wiki
Massive spin increases the radius by 30% but also has the benefit of extra damage
opal lodge
quick spin is poggers
hades spear spin isnt about the actual spin damage
its about applying the debuff
proven osprey
I think getting quick spin on Hades would just be detrimental for timings
At least mine
Since you never full spin but idk
lucid oar
I don't play Hades spear ever so I don't have any timings memorised
cunning urchin
Quick Spin or Massive Spin on Hades?
Other hammer is Explosive launcher. Attack ...
Massive Spin.
silk hearth
how do i build aspect of demeter? the pew pew x5 aspect
if im not trying to force ME, what boons do i take
turbid needle
dio fists are also nice I think :)
silk hearth
hmm i dont like the idea of putting dio on my main dps
since when ur at 5 stacks it doesnt do anything
lucid oar
If you pom Dio it's really good, or if you get the duos
And get global damage like PS and rush delivery etc
cunning urchin
since when ur at 5 stacks it doesnt do anything
Or you could say if you cap your stacks, you don't need to do anything.
You'll still get the damage while running away.
And the pom scaling on Hangover is always great.
silk hearth
Or you could say if you cap your stacks, you don't *need* to do anything.
but the goal is to keep doing dmg whenever possible, so not doing anything isnt good
yea hangover pom scaling is the same as pressure points which is nice
cunning urchin
What? The point is that "whenever possible" becomes "whenever" once you've applied Hangover. It keeps doing damage for you while you evade attacks and stuff.
The pom scaling is way better than Pressure Points.
Or better, the actual damage increase from Hangover poms is way better.
turbid needle
I mean just use special when it caps tho
cunning urchin
There's that, too. 
cunning urchin
Or RUN AWAY! 
turbid needle
🏃♀️
cunning urchin
🏃🏽♀️
turbid needle
but yeah ngl once you tasted dio rama everything else feels like less dps
because rama gets the best of both
fast stacks+main dmg attack stays
I guess dio chiron is like that too
cunning urchin
I like Doom more on Rama, but Hangover is amazing, too.
turbid needle
doom is also great ye
languid forum
what is a good gilgamesh build
turbid needle
you can do dash only, merciful end, aphro atk
deft canopy
proven osprey
Special, double dash strike is your main dps rotation. Include casts in between for boiling blood. Hammers : Charged skewer (number one), Quick and Massive Spin are good. Breaching skewer is good with charged skewer, otherwise inferior to the others but still better than most hammers.
[17:42]
Good attacks : Artemis Aphro Demeter Athena
[17:42]
Good special : anything that is % base. Best scaling goes to Artemis with Hunter's mark
lucid oar
^
proven osprey
Typed this the other day, should be a good start
lucid oar
I had "charged skew" typed in then this popped up
proven osprey
LOL
The thing is I want to give other keys
When you don't get charged skewer you have to clear with whatever you have
this is why the dps rotation is important : you should not attack on Guan Yu, the triple combo leaves you open and is terrible to aim since the hitbox is thin
You can go merciful end if you want, GY is a good vessel for that.
lucid oar
GY is my fastest ME clear for some reason
lucid oar
I had all of that by Tartarus
Level 4 epic doom, epic special, charged skewer, DD and ME, all with a 2:06 tart exit
It was a fun time
proven osprey
holy
sterile fiber
any general tips for rail?
sterile fiber
I kind of have the vibe that I should keep an eye on bullets and reload during waves
sterile fiber
alright so I just have to git gud
boreal prism
rail special build isn't the strongest build you can make, but it is the most straightforward one
put damage on special, get hammers to make more special, win
lucid oar
Rocket and cluster are good hammers
sterile fiber
Dash striking is faster than just standing there and shooting
by faster do you mean more damage
lucid oar
Dash strikes fire 2 shots at once, so they are quicker
proven osprey
The dash attacks unleash a lil burst of bullets
lucid oar
Zeus on attack is also good
proven osprey
It's harder to play : you want to keep attacking because the damage ramps up but you lose your iframes while dash striking
fading nymph
Poseidon attack with sea storm if you want to meme
proven osprey
It's nice though
sterile fiber
I just did that lol
lucid oar
Lucifer is more dangerous but the bombs are really strong, especially with triple bomb
sterile fiber
saw the super soaker cat and decided to try it
I guess whether to trigger bombs yourself or shooting them depends on situation?
boreal prism
they're laser pointer activated bombs, hehe
depends on your build, mostly
the bombs passively deal low damage, and when they blow up they deal big damage once
so you can pretty much put any boon on special and have something that makes sense on paper
your mileage may vary
sterile fiber
do the boons affect the passive or just the explosion
boreal prism
the boons affect the passive
fun mechanical interaction: if you have zeus special, the bombs will shoot lightning bolts when enemies get near. the lightning bolts will detonate the bomb
sterile fiber
oh cool
boreal prism
of course, you won't have increased damage % on the bomb, so...
sterile fiber
Mm
sterile fiber
are we gonna have a father's day challenge
jovial fulcrum
Probably something involving EM4 if I had to guess
Maximum Over-Dad
HL5, CP2, EM4, FO2
Just all the dad buffs
Maybe BP2 cause it buffs the ads
split relic
I angry
I just tried to do lament plume achievemnt
And I ended at 19.4
Bc it was t1
And I started Zeus
sterile fiber
I humbly request a beginner/intermediate friendly version xD
turbid needle
Finally finished heat 1 Achilles spear with a janky build haha
Weird and unorthodox
storm ivy
What are some of the notable cast build styles with Achilles spear?
Optimal if u will. Not high heat. Maybe like 20 heat or so
jovial fulcrum
Artemis duos
Hunting Blades or Crystal Clarity
Lightning Phalanx is also nutty
Those are the only ones I've personally played.
turbid needle
I played a mix of Ares and Athena
uncut glacier
Merciful end bb
opal lodge
hunting blades, ice wine and lightning phalanx are all incredible duos for achilles
scint feast is also good
getting mirage is good for any cast
zeus cast is very good straight out the gate
storm ivy
Merciful end bb
Merciful end even with cast build?
storm ivy
hunting blades, ice wine and lightning phalanx are all incredible duos for achil...
So do u start with ares looking for slicing shot in first biome then Artemis on special?
silk hearth
The pom scaling is way better than Pressure Points.
the pom scaling is exactly the same lol, but the dmg output is different
also the more i talk about artemis boons the more i realise the scaling is quite bad
pressure points has better scaling than clean kill and even then its only 2%
silk hearth
I mean just use special when it caps tho
hmm yea true i was so used to spamming attack i forgot about using special before its charged
opal lodge
So do u start with ares looking for slicing shot in first biome then Artemis on ...
artemis on attack is quite good
storm ivy
hunting blades, ice wine and lightning phalanx are all incredible duos for achil...
So pretty much opening my runs with trippy cast, phalanx cast or slicing cast right
And then switch to the appropriate duo boom prerequisite
turbid needle
theres already mods for that I think. unless you mean something else
if you mean without mods thats what speedrunner and heat runners do
dont swear
basicially
chill out
anyway I usually try to optimize my builds and its fun for me
diff things are gonna be fun for different players
youre gonna get kicked like that
silk hearth
lol
turbid needle
censoring swears isn't allowed either, giving you a fair warning here
opal lodge
LOL
idk why people always throw a hissy fit about swearing
it's like
i dont really care about it but sgg wants to keep it kid friendly
respect that
valid prism
Same
Like there's no fundamentals at all, SGG has rules on their Discord, just deal with it
I'm still curious about the min max run builds they were talking about but I'm afraid we'll never know 😔
turbid needle
😔
storm ivy
I was reading that wriste speed running guideand Zeus cast was the go to choice. What makes pbalanx, slicing and trippy shot better alternatives? Is it just access to powerful duo boon choices?
turbid needle
I dont know much about speedrunning but heat likes phalanx for the dmg, utility and duo
so iirc the guide was talking about poseidon sword right
storm ivy
I tried a hunting blades run earlier at about 18 heat but I couldn’t get hunting blades by the time I got to em3. Ran out of time
storm ivy
so iirc the guide was talking about poseidon sword right
In his guide he mentioned all 3
turbid needle
theres more than 3
ok
again I dont know whats actually faster
I do like hunting blades with achilles a lot
and crystal beam
storm ivy
I do like hunting blades with achilles a lot
How do u shape these runs tho? I’m feeling like slicing shot is really unreliable until u get hunting blades
I can’t imagine this at a higher heat and 5 min timers without getting hunting blades early into the third act
turbid needle
slicing shot is nice with its t2 boons on its own
storm ivy
Triple dash attack hammer on attempt attack seems pretty nice too
turbid needle
if youre build relies on a duo and you don't get it you sometimes just gotta take the F
storm ivy
True true
turbid needle
I tried to go for ME fists and never got it
still made the run
you just gotta find more subsitudes for dmg
turbid needle
I usually do rush then dash strike, strike
storm ivy
if youre build relies on a duo and you don't get it you sometimes just gotta tak...
Typically if u are trying to “force” this hunting blades with the spear, do u prioritize Artemis or ares
turbid needle
I went ares first but both is ok I think
artemis means you get more out of the atk bonus early
also like you said hammers can help so much with achilles dmg
storm ivy
i usually go artemis but im theorycrafting as u say that t2 ares boons will help slicing shot a lot and wondering if leading off with ares is better just on the chacne to have more chances at ares boons. anyway ill test.
cunning urchin
Current Achilles speedrun meta ignores Cast.
Tidal Dash > Deadly Strike (or more rarely Lightning Strike)
That's the core of the build.
And Flurry Jab.
turbid needle
the wriste guide is outdated after all
valid prism
18 heat starts to be kinda different from pure speedrun because the pact starts to force you to be careful which will slow you down
turbid needle
oh yeah if you wanna clear heats I wouldn't take everything from speedruns because they tend to be high risk
like high confidence vs thick skin
valid prism
Yeah, zeus cast on Achilles sounds more like specific speed choice than universal solution to be fast with spear
storm ivy
Tidal Dash > Deadly Strike (or more rarely Lightning Strike)
ill try that out
seems interesting
candid flame
anyone here know anything about speedrun rankings? I'm looking at the leaderboard on speedrun.com and I can't for the life of my figure out how the ranking works
like, some of them have numbers and others have dashes and I don't know what that means
unkempt scroll
Hi
How effective is the Zeus' legendary boon at the final boss? I don't know if it works single targeting 🤔
valid prism
like, some of them have numbers and others have dashes and I don't know what tha...
When someone has multiple runs on the same board, the best ranking gets a number and other runs of them have dashes instead
candid flame
When someone has multiple runs on the same board, the best ranking gets a number...
Thanks! I assumed that the boards would only track each person's best run. interesting that it works that way
valid prism
That's the case actually: If someone has a number, that means it's their personal best, whatever the used aspect
unkempt scroll
Is that the 40+ heat runs?
valid prism
?
unkempt scroll
The thing you're talking about
valid prism
any Hades leaderboard
except the leaderboards where having multiple variables is impossible like Fresh File, One Weapon only etc.
on those leaderboards only your best time will remain
if you submit 2 runs on the same leaderboard and each one is done with a different aspect, both will appear on the ranking: the best one will have a number, the other one will get a dash
if you submit 2 runs of the same aspect on the same leaderboard, only the best one is supposed to be visible, the other one should be considered as obsolete
plain prairie
if you submit 2 runs of the same aspect on the same leaderboard, only the best one is supposed to be visible, the other one should be considered as obsolete
opal lodge
zeus with achilles is very outdated tbh
this was back when you relied on zeus cast for room clear and did not have a plan for bossing
now we've realized that with the buffer change in 1.37 flurry jab is good enough for room clear, and getting a good cast really speeds up bossing
so if you can slap on a high dmg cast that's usually good enough
trippy/slicing/phalanx all have extremely high base dmg values but poor relative room clear
fading nymph
Why are casts good for bosses if they just lodge and the boss is dead before the unlodge
lucid oar
And phalanx has really high base damage so it pops out while dad is phasing
opal lodge
yeah i know a lot of runners like phalanx
lucid oar
You're a trippy man I see
opal lodge
i personally prefer trippy or slicing just because it doesnt lodge
fading nymph
but then you lose boiling blood
lucid oar
Boiling blood doesn't really matter when most of your damage is coming from tidal dash/jolted/your cast
And you also have +150% from raging rush
storm ivy
trippy/slicing/phalanx all have extremely high base dmg values but poor relative...
Ah thank you exactly the explanation I needed.
raw rune
is aspect of nemesis good?
strange lark
Yeah it's good
lucid oar
What are the other options
fading nymph
Just in general
lucid oar
I guess any extra vitality on GY is going to be good
So yeah
Nourished soul is good as well
raw pumice
Where can I see the best fists build
fading nymph
Either Zeus or ME
raw pumice
ME?
cunning urchin
Where can I see the best fists build
This should help, I hope. #h1-builds-and-combat message
raw pumice
tyy
solemn wren
What the heck is happening
solemn wren
Rule 3-stay on topic
solemn wren
can we just get the ban hammer ready
boreal prism
Whatever, come back when you sober up
fading nymph
solemn wren
The bot just told you to watch your language lmao
fading nymph
not the first time
boreal prism
Can't you just do this to the fornite discord instead
solemn wren
not the first time
Should we just get the mods here then?
boreal prism
Anyway, whats the deal with lucifer gun, huh? What do the pros run on that
fading nymph
super soaker is what chads do
boreal prism
Oh yeah you can get a lot of wallslams huh
fading nymph
sea storm
solemn wren
Sea Storm is just a super good duo boon
Similar to ME
fading nymph
zapzapzapzap
boreal prism
Aw yeah that sounds great actually
fading nymph
your not min maxing very well
strange lark
Yeah seastorm Lucifer is good
boreal prism
@untold vortex
strange lark
<@143523804503605248>
Thank you
fading nymph
thank you mods very cool
boreal prism
👍
strange lark
Yay
untold vortex
I don't have the words to describe what that even was (without breaking proxy bot)
boreal prism
The thing with lucifer is I always feel like I'm using the bombs wrong... they have so much potential
fading nymph
same
strange lark
The thing with lucifer is I always feel like I'm using the bombs wrong... they h...
Yeah the bombs are really good
You should get triple bomb with it
solemn wren
I don’t use Lucifer (I don’t have any hidden aspects unlocked) but ok
strange lark
Nice
strange lark
Git gud
fading nymph
need to just practice rng ig
fading nymph
why are you using abyssal
strange lark
Because it becomes useless on beo
strange lark
And to balance the purple with some yellow
fading nymph
at what point is EM4 worth on Beo
fading nymph
why are you using shadow there
fading nymph
lol
strange lark
I was thinking about how good it is
fading nymph
one time I was going for a ME build and forgot to switch to legacy
got ME first oportunity
strange lark
Nice
fading nymph
very
fading nymph
Should legacy or pride go on Dio Beo
unique geode
I'm not sure if this is the right channel for questions, but for the keepsake shattered shackle it says "Your Attack, Special, and Cast each deal +50% damage while not empowered by a Boon." Does boon include...all the boons you get from gods? Or does boon mean the items u can buy in the Well of Charon?
silk hearth
it refers to the core boons for them
say aphro attack/special/cast
i dont think the other boons "empower" them
im not sure though i havent tested
unique geode
ohh ok thanks, that makes a lot more sense :0
Another question. My mirror stat things say "1 time per rank", what's a rank?
silk hearth
when u spend darkness to upgrade the mirror, the rank increases by one
i think thats what ur referring to
the rank for one of the mirror's talents ^^
cunning urchin
I'm not sure if this is the right channel for questions, but for the keepsake sh...
"Boon" always refers to the boons you get from gods.
As for Shackle: if you pick say Heartbreak Strike, it replaces the Attack bonus from Shackle, but you still get the bonus damage for Special and Cast.
unique geode
oo, thank you , that helps a lot ! ^^
queen arrow
As for Shackle: if you pick say Heartbreak Strike, it replaces the Attack bonus ...
Just checking - specifically Olympian, is that right? I thought Chaos boons won't replace Shackle. Or I wasn't doing numbers right in my head, also entirely possible. i.e. if the slot is technically still "open", then Shackle is still active.
silk hearth
yes as long as its "open"
mild raft
Shackle even still works on your dash attacks if you have Hunter's Dash since it doesn't technically empower your attack
unique geode
Question. I'm looking at this reddit post for tips on a fight, and what's a wrath boon? People are mentioning it in the comments. Is that the call button? https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/bpam8g/theseus_and_minotaur_advice/
cunning urchin
Wrath is an old name for Call, yeah.
turbid needle
I'm not sure if this is the right channel for questions, but for the keepsake sh...
Just the actual god boons
worldly fog
I'm kinda curious: what Keepsake do you guys usually start with? I might use one that summons a particular Olympian if I want it, or the Lambent Feather if I'm using Zag aspect of Malphon, but I almost always start with ||Persephone's||.
strange lark
i always start with a god keepsake
turbid needle
I normally start with acorn and keep it tbh
strange lark
but it depends on the weapon im using and the build im going for
mossy finch
How would one speedrun gay%
worldly fog
Acorn is Eurydice's right?
strange lark
yes
mossy finch
or whatever its called
turbid needle
But ||mom pom||/egg/plume/god keepsake would be decent for tart
turbid needle
How would one speedrun gay%
What?
strange lark
How would one speedrun gay%
wait is that the one fresh file speedrun where you are trying to romance than?
turbid needle
wait is that the one fresh file speedrun where you are trying to romance than?
Thats a thing?
mossy finch
is there an official name for it
strange lark
i guess
turbid needle
I’m interested
strange lark
ive never heard about it
mossy finch
i want to do it for pridemonth
mossy finch
well yeah
strange lark
and get lucky
mossy finch
but is there a weapon strat?
mossy finch
cause you need 4 ambrosia
mossy finch
and without aspects that means you run first 4 weapons
turbid needle
Hm
strange lark
you could like get the 4 cheapest weapons and kill the heroes with them as fast as possible
mossy finch
Oh fighting hades might not be worth
strange lark
or maybe kill final boss and then kill heroes 3 more times
mossy finch
since you cant get ambrosia there anyways
worldly fog
Than also appears randomly, I didn't find him for ~40 runs
mossy finch
what do you get for a hades kill other than titan blood
mossy finch
Than also appears randomly, I didn't find him for ~40 runs
repeated deaths
worldly fog
Gems
mossy finch
and its only the first time right?
mossy finch
its a fresh file speedrun
strange lark
you should ask in the hades speedrunning discord lol
turbid needle
Unless you want to do heat
strange lark
its pinned in #self-promotion
mossy finch
you can convert the hydra diamonds to an ambrosia
turbid needle
you can convert the hydra diamonds to an ambrosia
Yep
mossy finch
so you only need to clear 3 times
turbid needle
And keys into nectar
mossy finch
well yeah but you need a couple keys for weapons
turbid needle
Yea
mossy finch
you need 4 keys for sheild and bow
which means so 1 key on first run
and 3 on second
and nectar is a real problem
you need 6
mossy finch
its 3 actually trying runs
and then a whole lot of resets once you got the stuff
oh crud
i just realized something
turbid needle
Hm?
mossy finch
theres a wretched broker trade with 1 titan blood -> 1 ambrosia
which means its doable in 2 runs
which means you gotta do it in 2 runs
WAIT
its even more complicated
if you can get 6 nectar on the first run
you can give than the 6 nectar by mass reseting
so that when you meet him second run
affinity unlocks
and you can mass reset to give him 4 ambrosia
oh no...
you cant see than in game until you see alecto/tisiphone
cunning urchin
I'm kinda curious: what Keepsake do you guys usually start with? I might use one...
every time. 
lucid oar
<:courte5EternalRose:851568354535800882> every time. <:courte5AphroHeart:8515683...
Even Eris?!
cunning urchin
Of course. m the high priestess of the Temple of Aphrodite.
lucid oar
exits Tartarus at 2:50
cunning urchin
I don't enjoy playing Eris much anyway.
fading nymph
Why not
lucid oar
The gameplay is boring, it's just stand in your special then mash dash and attack until things die
With Hera you need to be more careful with your inputs, you can't just go unga-bunga at everything
mossy finch
(its worth noting here that @cunning urchin is probably not the best person to take god advice from unless you want to know specifically about aphro builds)
arty works just as well if not better on most things
cunning urchin
Wut.
fading nymph
Oh boy
cunning urchin
They asked which keepsakes we like to start with. They didn't ask for any builds or anything.
mossy finch
that doesnt make aphro a good idea
you're better off pickicg a god that combos well with specifically your weapon than going for just high damage
cunning urchin
That wasn't the question. I simply answered which keepsake I like to start with.
I think you're way out of line telling people not to listen to my advice.
lucid oar
What someone says they enjoy doing =/= what someone says is best/most effective
solemn wren
Personally I just say to use the keepsake that best fits what you want the run to be like.
weak wharf
Question: Does the Hermes boon Swift Flourish that makes your special 30% faster work as I'd like with Aspect of Zeus shield? That is, does it make the time between hits be 30% less?
Or does it just make the startup time of throwing the shield be 30% less
strange lark
I think zag throws the shield faster and it doesn't do anything to the tick speed of the shield special
fading nymph
Does attack speed make the bull rush charge faster
proven osprey
what pp man said is correct
I don't think so potato, there's a hammer for that. I'm no expert but I think the bullrush is not an attack therefore it would not work
strange lark
It makes your attack faster and since you need to use an attack before you start charging your bullrush it technically makes your bullrush charge faster
But idk why you would use your normal attack to charge your bullrush
But yeah it doesn't do anything to the actual bullrush
frail venture
does artemis's dash strike boon affect rail?
opal lodge
its just not very significant unless you have spread fire
frail venture
ya i replaced athena dash with artemis but had to make sure artemis even did anything
fading nymph
But idk why you would use your normal attack to charge your bullrush
Is using dash strike faster?
boreal prism
good weapon for pierced butterfly?
strange lark
Guan yu
boreal prism
oh yeah that scans
unkempt geyser
I am a bit late but just a friendly general reminder to channel goers to be kind and show respect towards one another and not dismiss advice simply because you personally feel it is wrong :) if you do not do this then you are fine 
turbid needle
gib me the best build in all of the game
Highest DPS or most survivability?
DPSSSS
SUUUUUUPER HIGH DPS
but easy accesability sooo no duo boons
this is gonna be challenging for u
Aspect of Eris Rail, Lightning Strike, Tidal Dash.
turbid needle
Aspect of Eris Rail, Lightning Strike, Tidal Dash.
its that easy?
Like Staples.
like u can melt bosses with this right?
It holds the world record (is the basis for the build, at least) for speedrunning Hades.
because i wasted my titans blood on achiles aspect chiron aspect posidon aspect and demeter aspect XD
Oh, well.
With Demeter, you want Divine Strike and Divine Dash, and Deadly Strike.
Dash-Strike constantly while holding down Attack, then use a Dash-Special when you have a Giga Cutter charge.
nice
i like that
waiiiiiit
i have aspect of talos
🤦
Oh, shoot, you've got Aspect of Poseidon.
yea
even nemisis
True Shot on Poseidon.
Go for as many Casts as possible and lots of Poms.
echo helm
vartha and exagryph have been my best so far. esp with the right boons
turbid needle
true shot????????????
and one question why ant i give my fellow achilles anymore nectar
i dont get it
sterile fiber
you need to progress his story
sterile fiber
keep talking to him and Pat
turbid needle
ohhhhhh partoculus
sterile fiber
and also buy the Admin chamber
turbid needle
vartha and exagryph have been my best so far. esp with the right boons
gib me ur bessssssssst vartha build
sterile fiber
and I think you need some hearts with Nyx too
turbid needle
and also buy the Admin chamber
what happens once i give him ambrosia
echo helm
gib me ur bessssssssst vartha build
i'd have to go back to find my most viable one, it was the first i escaped with but i dont have my switch on me rn sorry
sterile fiber
you get a cute chibi and another item
turbid needle
i'd have to go back to find my most viable one, it was the first i escaped with ...
ok
turbid needle
you get a cute chibi and another item
mr melonade gib me ur best build
or i will get sad
echo helm
ok
i do remember it was a combo of dio boons and the flurry jab you get from the hammer, the damage sorta stacks and you can attack rapidly from a distance
turbid needle
i do remember it was a combo of dio boons and the flurry jab you get from the ha...
does flurry jab the one where u hold attack and it hits super fast
echo helm
yeah.
urban crater
yes I think
turbid needle
or is it the one where you dash strike and get like 3 billion hits
urban crater
Which one is that, I know what you're talking about
echo helm
no it's the one where you hold attack, combined with hangover and doom it can deal some decent damage
urban crater
I'm going to be honest my least favorite infernal arms are aegis and malphon
you have to be too aggressive
This is from a standpoint of playing in hell mode
echo helm
i like malphon but it sucks once you get to hades bc the moment i get close oh look im back in the styx
urban crater
boiling blood plays on both sides
echo helm
yeah, i know. but half the time it's what does me in
turbid needle
i hate the sword because it is too slow and i take too much damae with it
echo helm
the bow is my least fav.
urban crater
Bow's my most fav actually
echo helm
thats fair! i probably just don't know how to use it lol
urban crater
I think something that makes it better is aspect of chiron
I like it better than hera aspect
While it decreases the amount your special shoots it does make it homing
echo helm
ive??? only beaten alecto with it, but she's arguably the easiest sister to beat
urban crater
I'm not big on builds but probably artemis flourish at the bare amount
turbid needle
I'm not big on builds but probably artemis flourish at the bare amount
ok
urban crater
also an upgrade that would increase the amount that the special shoots would be good
echo helm
if we're on fav weapons now. the gun
i howled when i realized what it was bc it was a weapon i least expected
echo helm
yeah i struggled with it a bit, it's given me plenty of escapes
sterile fiber
mr melonade gib me ur best build
For Achilles Spear? Tbh I've never pushed the heat high enough to need to worry about builds
urban crater
though I might have to worry about them in hell mode
sterile fiber
I'd imagine Posi dash would be good
Achilles, I feel is more about the rhythm
Rush - jab - jab - jab, repeat
echo helm
that or, if ur like me, stay in the corner and poke
sterile fiber
yeah get the hammer upgrade that buffs the special dmg to armor
For Hades Spear I kinda stumbled into a decent build for my father's day fun run - get the hammer that buffs sweep radius, and a call that makes you invulnerable
Use the call in the middle of enemies and get a good sweep in and go stabby
echo helm
my fav calls are posiedon's, dite's and uhhhhhhh ares'
urban crater
Probably posiedon, ares and artemis
sterile fiber
Dio and demeter for me
turbid needle
I like zeus bc it gets me smoldering air fast
dry ember
sterile fiber
yeah it's one more thing to keep track in my small brain
at least it's fun to use greater call against the last boss for fun dialogue
fossil nest
do you need to have each boon be from a different god to get the full effect of family favorite?
sorry if this is a stupid question
valid prism
Just 1 boon from a different god
Considering a run is always made of 4 differents god + Hermes, that's a potential +25%
First boon you get +5%
Then 1 different god later, another +5%
I don't know if Chaos counts
cunning urchin
No.
fossil nest
ah, i see. thank you.
strange lark
no
mossy finch
ok
strange lark
wait
i think so
normal rail special cant backstab
but maybe rocket bomb
yeah it can
mossy finch
can i see a screenshot or something
because it doesnt look like it in the speedrun im watching
mossy finch
the speedrunners say no
strange lark
oh ok
lucid oar
Nothing that is an explosion can backstab
mossy finch
and they're probably right because rocket bomb is their baby
right next to clusterbomb
lucid oar
Rocket bomb + fiery presence + HC + Eris buff does like 220 damage which is enough to one-shot everything in Tartarus
It's pretty good
mossy finch
i actually dont have rocket bomb
ive just got all the stuff for a rocket + cluster build so im praying for it
lucid oar
Gl, it's like 3%
If you want to increase the chance of seeing both hammers, pick cluster first because it removes triple + hazard, while rocket only remover hazard
But if you want a good build, pick rocket first
mossy finch
i already have cluster
lucid oar
This is only if they are both offered at the same time
languid forum
what's a good attack boon on aspect of lucifer
strange lark
zeus attack
languid forum
ty
fading nymph
super soaker with sea storm if you want to meme
cunning urchin
You can make anything work on Attack.
languid forum
ty
cunning urchin
High % boons will do better boss damage if you can get some poms in them and focus on your ramp damage.
Flat damage boons don't really care for the ramp at all because they don't benefit from it.
languid forum
and i should never take the deadlus upgrade that stops ramp
cunning urchin
That one is fun. You'll want to try to get Sea Storm.
languid forum
what does sea stormdo?
cunning urchin
That's my personal hammer tier list for Lucifer, but it doesn't actually have bad hamers. https://i.imgur.com/bLyCD6q.png
mossy finch
is there anything specific i need to do to get dusa back or does it just happen with time?
languid forum
oh i see thanks
strange lark
is there anything specific i need to do to get dusa back or does it just happen ...
time
mossy finch
k
cunning urchin
what does sea stormdo?
Any of your attacks that do knockback also do 40 lightning damage.
cunning urchin
You can just use his keepsake in Asphodel.
worldly fog
I've got a really stupid build atm, just beat the Heroes in less than 30 seconds. Frost Strike, Urge to Kill, Arctic Blast, Pauper's Strike, Spread Fire, Explosive Fire, Killing Freeze and Winter Harvest. Everyone slows tf down, eats damage and dies
New PB, yep
echo helm
where do you get paupers strike from
worldly fog
Chaos
worldly fog
Gun
boreal prism
Icic
echo helm
pew pew
boreal prism
Yeah I really ought to try an arctic blast build on a fast weapon
worldly fog
Yea Spread Fire is ridiculous, plus I had extra ammo bc Zag aspect
boreal prism
I guess that's what zag gun is good for
worldly fog
Yeah I popped off when I saw Demeter in an entrance, wanted her bad
short sapphire
Took me three or four tries but I managed 32 heat. Zag fists/plume is pretty good ig https://imgur.com/a/7uiaWgM
lucid oar
Aphro is decent but Zeus is more optimal
short sapphire
I would usually go zeus but for high heat I usually try to just make the game more forgiving so damage reduction/dodge chance is what I go for (hence broken resolve heartbreak streak, different league, and colossus knuckle on this build). Plus I didn’t get zeus at all this run and got lucky with epic heartbreak strike which is a 100%+ damage boost anyway, so it works just fine
That message is a mess but hopefully it’s readable
fading nymph
to prevent zeus from showing up you could just
equip his keepsake
oh wait plume
me dumb
strange lark
Took me three or four tries but I managed 32 heat. Zag fists/plume is pretty goo...
Nice
short sapphire
Now all that’s left is the simple task of 350k darkness 👍
lucid oar
Zeus is good on its own but with jolted it's really good
cunning urchin
where do you get paupers strike from
To clarify: Pauper's is the curse, Strike is the boon.
short sapphire
Maybe if I get lucky I can manage at least 1k darkness per run and reach what I need in a measly 350 runs
fading nymph
yikes
languid forum
what do u even need 350k darkness for
lucid oar
Resources director I'd assume
short sapphire
resource director + chaos theme
storm ivy
What aspects or situations would you take Stygian soul in?
Trying to see what makes it a better option than getting 3 right off the bat
sterile fiber
you don't have to pick them up
boreal prism
dio cast is good with stygian i think
because you don't have to wait for the cloud to go away
cunning urchin
Any non-lodging Cast.
storm ivy
because you don't have to wait for the cloud to go away
But u are only using 1 at a time anyway. Like if u have the other option and u just toss the 3 out sequentially, you will get the first one while the third is still active.
But I guess for stuff like hunting blades at least u don’t have to chase it down. Is there a cast weapon that wants hunting blades? I’m guessing Achilles spear