Sigil also good
#h1-builds-and-combat
jovial fulcrum
turbid needle
well good luck to you sir
real orchid
ty ty
i got offered lightning rod now but honestly im probably gonna take support fire over it
idk
i dont really cast much
jovial fulcrum
ye
jovial fulcrum
now you can get offered Fully Loaded instead, probably
jovial fulcrum
oof
balmy star
STILL NO MERCIFUL END
it gave me arte athena duo and i was like "ok with my 1 reroll it should give me ME next right"
nope
athena cast common bronze skin rare holy shield epic
frickin pepehands
im sorry i had to vent that ive been trying all of elysium for ME and they just wont give it to me 
jovial fulcrum
frickin pepehands
balmy star
thought id lyk
bought one last athena boon at charon styx
still no ME
omg jk there's athena and ares chambers
please
please rngesus
jovial fulcrum
right
Athena first i'd say, then if you get it from her you can maybe get impending doom from ares
unless you already have impending doom
balmy star
2late went w ares first
jovial fulcrum
rip
balmy star
F
update
no ME from ares
not even impending doom
good news, athena chamber didnt have a boss
what starts with p and ends in epehands
balmy star
yeah even with 10% god's legacy they're like LOL took off athena ks? big mistake boyo
that's right
no
merciful
end
athena cast rare. sure footing epic. bronze skin rare.
f. m. l.
jovial fulcrum
sure footing is a nice consolation prize
balmy star
im just gonna take cast
jovial fulcrum
it happens. Just gonna be a slower dad fight is all
balmy star
what traps are in end fight
boreal prism
Pots
jovial fulcrum
the shockwave from dad is a trap as well
cunning urchin
You should take the Cast to fill your priority slots, yes.
balmy star
^ she knows what's up 
im dashing all the time anyways w div dash so i never really get caught in the traps
oh here's a question
jovial fulcrum
I mean i guess, idk what a cast really does there though
cunning urchin
Greatest Reflex.
cunning urchin
Yeah, but one has and has had several WRs, and the other has not. 
balmy star
balmy star
holy sh
i
wow
ok well i bought arte at shop and got deadly reversal so that's something ig
frail schooner
hi nya
cunning urchin
If it's your first boon from Lord Hermes, it's pretty much always +2 dashes > Hyper Sprint > +1 dash.
balmy star
it was not
cunning urchin
For your second, I'd just take Greatest Reflex over Hyper Sprint unless I want to high-roll for Rush Delivery in the Temple of Styx.
That's both for speed and for safety. More dashes mean more i-frames.
jovial fulcrum
I thought it was Hyper always preferred on first boon, for Rush Delivery potential on the second
austere hollow
Extending jab or triple jab hammer for Spear?
balmy star
before you go any further, i beat dad already
ty for the insight though i appreciate it 
cunning urchin
I'd take Triple Jab. They both don't really do all that much.
lime jolt
For flurry I prefer triple
jovial fulcrum
Extending lets you poke spin attack Asterius, i think.
Unless you can just always do that, i guess. I don't play that much spear, really
cunning urchin
Rush Delivery is great, but if it's between gambling for Rush Delivery later on and +2 dashes now, I'll take the +2 dashes.
lime jolt
^
jovial fulcrum
High roll for lyfe
gusty rapids
it depends on the weapon and build for me
lime jolt
For achilles I’ll take the +2 dashes any day
gusty rapids
actually are we talking about something specific i just jumped in LOL
austere hollow
Is serrated point better than both of them (dash stricke hits 3x but 25% less distance)
gusty rapids
any dat
cunning urchin
It does depend on weapon and build, I suppose. But that's the default strategy for me.
gusty rapids
like cast builds for example dont rly care abt dashes tbh
split relic
How do ppl use fists jesus
gusty rapids
hera, beowulf
lime jolt
For rail or something, I’m willing to gamble for RD
jovial fulcrum
they punch stuff
gusty rapids
eris i'd probably take +2 dashes if i saw it
lime jolt
Unless it’s +3 dashes
cunning urchin
Serrated Point is better than Triple Jab or Extended Jab unless you already have Flurry Jab, yes.
If you have Flurry Jab, taking Serrated Point will hurt your DPS.
split relic
they punch stuff
Ye I take too much dmg with them
jovial fulcrum
dash frames, idk.
You'll get better w/ practice
split relic
Ye
jovial fulcrum
dashing behind things for free hits helps
gusty rapids
also learning enemy attack patterns is good
split relic
Ok
lime jolt
also learning enemy attack patterns is good
^
Learn when to let enemies whiff
And then go in for the kill
split relic
Oki
jovial fulcrum
Or just do the meme build w/ Plume and Zag Fist 
lime jolt
Know when to back out
split relic
Ye
cunning urchin
Divine Strike, Deadly Flourish, Divine Dash, and just hold down Attack while mashing Dash. 
jovial fulcrum
for Plume memes? Zag
In general, Demeter
split relic
Wut does demeter do?
jovial fulcrum
Giga cutter, after you hit 12 times
split relic
Ahh oki
turbid needle
👌 Kinetic launcher and then hide in corner.
split relic
Is hidden any good?
jovial fulcrum
Gilgamesh is fun, but it struggles at higher heat
cunning urchin
I think Zag Aspect is easier when learning Malphon fundamentals especially if you take Ruthless Reflex. Dodge chance makes the run very forgiving.
split relic
Oki
light adder
what decides the damage for drunken? is it the first hit of drunken or is each instance calulated seprately
jovial fulcrum
Literally the only time I like it are for dash only runs
giglamesh was my first em4 kill 
gusty rapids
zag fists were mine i think
lime jolt
what decides the damage for drunken? is it the first hit of drunken or is each i...
Drunken?
Mine was hades spear
celest lantern
quick question: if you dash attack, your invincibility is disabled for the rest of the dash, right?
cunning urchin
Each stack of Hangover does the damage you applied with the respective boon.
lime jolt
To show up dad
cunning urchin
When Hangover stacks reach the cap, any new Hangover stack that is applied will override the oldest.
cunning urchin
quick question: if you dash attack, your invincibility is disabled for the rest ...
Yes. Dash-Strikes don't have invincibility.
light adder
sry i mean hangover
celest lantern
does it still apply to "other" dashes done "in a row"? (as in, with the Greater Reflex mirror skill, for example)
cunning urchin
No.
celest lantern
cuz I swear, sometimes I'll dash out of the twin fists (releasing left click too late, doing a dash attack), dash two more times (have hermes' boon), and will get hit in the middle of the third dash
cunning urchin
Your empty dash has i-frames. When you press dash and nothing else, you do an empty dash. When you press Attack during the dash, your dash animation is canceled into a Dash-Strike that doesn't have i-frames. That Dash-Strike has a recovery animation at the end. When you press dash again, the recovery animation is canceled, and you do an empty dash.
celest lantern
(that or with Varatha with flurry strike)
that was definitely in the middle of the dash, though... (too bad there's no button to quickly record the last ~3-5 seconds of gameplay or something...)
cunning urchin
Perhaps you let go of Attack too late or press Attack again too early. Also, dash recovery is not invincible, so maybe you're hit during that.
jovial fulcrum
that was definitely in the middle of the dash, though... (too bad there's no but...
if you have an NVidia gpu there is, but you have to enable it. and the default is 5 minutes i think?
forest marsh
I think the Windows game bar has a feature for that as well, maybe?
forest marsh
I was just looking it up too 
https://support.xbox.com/en-CA/help/friends-social-activity/share-socialize/record-game-clips-game-bar-windows-10
cunning urchin
Moooods, wightfyre is going off-topic in #h1-builds-and-combat again.
lime jolt
forest marsh
I don't know what moods have to do with anything, but we've always been fine with brief deviations, especially when it's related to on-topic discussion
lime jolt
That makes sense
cunning urchin
Yeah, if it's you, huh? Corruption.
forest marsh
Do you want us to be more strict, because this is how we be more strict
lime jolt
Thanks a lot nyaanyaa
forest marsh
Anyway, please carry on
cunning urchin
Yes, throw them all into Tartarus.
celest lantern
on another note, is there a way to / do they plan to make it possible to aim at the mouse, with the adamant rail? I mean, rather that having "zagreus' FEET be positioned towards the mouse, and him firing in that direction, which, since it's 2.5D, means you always aim above the mouse"? (long quote...)
lime jolt
cunning urchin
That's me.
cunning urchin
on another note, is there a way to / do they plan to make it possible to aim **a...
There were many feedback posts about that during Early Access, and they made a few changes here and there. I wouldn't expect any more changes at this point.
surreal wasp
is charged shot good on beo
slim lynx
is tidal dash best for gilga dash only runs?
jovial fulcrum
It does the most damage, but i personally don't have any experience with dash only
split relic
Is the projectile hammer any good on beo?
The one where it changes bull rush to a piercing projectile?
slim lynx
you mean charged shot?
split relic
Is that charged shot?
slim lynx
it's great, ask anyone
jovial fulcrum
we had this question like five posts ago
split relic
I said I didn't know the names
jovial fulcrum
But yeah, easily best Beo hammer
opal lodge
charged shot is the best shield hammer period
jovial fulcrum
80 is a lot of base damage, and thats not even everything the hammer does
lime jolt
is tidal dash best for gilga dash only runs?
Probably the best, but not always the most fun
Also charged shot op
lime jolt
Aphro is most consistent
lime jolt
Dio is more resets
split relic
Oki
jovial fulcrum
Dio is the high roll dream
lime jolt
Poseidon is the best of both worlds
lime jolt
Mirage shot is extremely good
split relic
With aphro?
jovial fulcrum
Sure, but its easier with posiden
mirage is more relevant than heart rend on Beo i'd say
by a lot
I don't think I've ever used Hunter Flare. I wonder if it'd work with a heart rend set up.
like, aphro attack, hunter flare, heart rend? who knows, lol
might try it later 
split relic
Oki
jovial fulcrum
oof
jovial fulcrum
maybe i won't try it then 😂
surreal wasp
managed to mess up my beo charged shot run by dying to lernie
i had smoldering too
i misplayed so abdly sahduandiasuj
jovial fulcrum
no worries, we've all been there
turbid needle
"Hey, you've got 3 Hunting Blades, should probably just hang back and not try to leverage the rest of your admittedly-synergistic build, you've got one DD and no Bouldy drops left."
"Nah, I think I'll try to DPS race."
surreal wasp
what guan yu special boon is best
turbid needle
Aphrodite or Artemis.
jovial fulcrum
that one still stings tbh
turbid needle
Artemis can spike higher, Aphrodite is most consistent.
surreal wasp
ty
jovial fulcrum
gosh, watching that back calling for no reason there is what killed me
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Flourish + Deadly Strike have better synergy than Deadly Flourish + Heartbreak Strike on Guan Yu.
lime jolt
You want to see a thrown run (i now I’ve shown it many times but it’s still hilarious)
jovial fulcrum
1 hit left oof
lime jolt
I got the clear two days later so I’m not mad anymore it’s just funny
Okay that’s the last time I show it
cunning urchin
That's unlikely.
jovial fulcrum
That Achilles throw is just burned in to my mind
cunning urchin
Yes, watching you die is entertaining.
cunning urchin
No no.
slim lynx
watching people die miserably is pure entertainment
cunning urchin
It's always pleasant to see.
turbid needle
Are we talking about spin builds or Special builds?
'Cause no crits on Heartbreak Flourish doesn't sound that great.
slim lynx
heartbreak flourish has way less trouble oneshotting things
cunning urchin
Deadly Flourish will often require more hits to kill on average than Heartbreak Flourish, yes.
jovial fulcrum
I had never raged that hard before
I thought about hitting GU and running back that seed, but meh
lime jolt
Lol
cunning urchin
Special > Dash-Strike x2 works perfectly with Heart Rend if you Heartbreak Flourish and Deadly Strike.
The reverse just means most of your Deadly Flourishes will not benefit from Heart Rend.
turbid needle
But Weak lasts 3 seconds.
opal lodge
i think nyaanyaa's point is that most enemies will die to a special since youre leading with it
turbid needle
I suppose if you only ever open with Deadly Flourish and never follow Dash-Strikes with it.
opal lodge
yup
slim lynx
special > dash-strike x2 takes less than 3 seconds to execute
turbid needle
I guess if you've got Double Super Nova?
lime jolt
turbid needle
Don't ask me why I suddenly thought Nemesis was in the discussion.
I couldn't tell you.
slim lynx
"Special > Dash-Strike x2"
turbid needle
Yeah, that's probably it.
cunning urchin
Special > Dash-Strike x2 has no gap. It's a combo. There's no gap for your opponent to do anything. Dash-Strike x2 > Special has a gap before your Special will hit. That leaves you vulnerable. Your Special will also benefit more from Fiery Presence than a Dash-Strike would. So you open with Special and follow up with Dash-Strikes as your go-to combo for anything that survives your Special.
With Heartbreak Flourish and Deadly Strike, virtually all of your crits will benefit from Heart Rend. With Deadly Flourish and Heartbreak Strike, hardly any of your crits will benefit.
opal lodge
isnt the fiery benefit kind of huge for deadly flourish though?
just for the sake of argument
cunning urchin
It's not like Heartbreak Flourish doesn't get any benefit from that. In terms of DPS in a vacuum, yes, it's better for Deadly Flourish. But your much lower % modifier on Deadly Flourish often results in leaving your enemy with a sliver of armor or a sliver of HP after your Special where Heartbreak Flourish would just take that down reliably.
Deadly Flourish builds basically just hope for an early Hunter's Mark and Charged Skewer and spam Specials only. And Heart Rend is not a priority.
cunning urchin
Well, it's still strong either way.
slim lynx
leave it to nyaanyaa to convince you that aphro is deadlier than lady huntress artemis
turbid needle
Nah, Achilles had me convinced they were at worst on-part back in mid-2019.
cunning urchin
There's always a point where Heartbreak Flourish requires fewer hits on average to strip enemies off their armor or kill them and a point where it requires more. So you've got to gauge that for every enemy type in a region and also how many of them you tend to face.
lime jolt
Heatbreak has always been good, but deadly just scales better with more stuff
cunning urchin
And whether those enemies tend to spread out or group up.
opal lodge
i think nyaanyaas point is that heartbreak flourish also benefits from the same stuff
and doesnt require it
opal lodge
dont believe so
cunning urchin
Pretty much. Benefitting more from something like a Flourish from Master Chaos doesn't matter if Deadly Flourish still requires more hits on average to kill than Heartbreak Flourish. You need to get enough bonus damage to reach those break points.
lime jolt
I think deadly flourish boss damage is a lot better
But for normal rooms, heartbreak is probably the way to go
cunning urchin
That's where Deadly Flourish can shine, yes.
lime jolt
(Without charged skewer)
split relic
Have SGG responded to the dio beo stuff yet?<:thanthink:669246004142538753>
What's wrong with it?
lime jolt
120>100 damage
The way to “fix” hera bow dio damage being low was just to lower dio beo
split relic
?
lime jolt
It went from 120 dmg to 100
opal lodge
they reduced common base dmg
lime jolt
At common
opal lodge
and rare/epic/heroic proportionally too
split relic
What does that mean?
lime jolt
It got nerfed
lime jolt
On april 1st
split relic
Wait is dio beo like dio cast with beo?
lime jolt
Yes
cunning urchin
Simple example: If Heartbreak Flourish needs one hit to strip an Elite Spreader off its armor and another hit to kill, that's two hits. If Deadly Flourish can't strip the armor with one hit that doesn't crit, then it will need two hits. A crit on hit two will just overkill the armor and not matter. And if the same happens again after the armor is stripped, that's 2-4 hits to kill the Elite Spreader where Heartbreak Flourish would always only need 2.
lime jolt
Like it needs a lot of stuff to go right
lime jolt
Simple example: If Heartbreak Flourish needs one hit to strip an Elite Spreader ...
For non charged skewer, that makes sense, but with charged skewer, you can already strip the armor
And anything that’s left can be immediately removed with dash strikes
cunning urchin
I think you're overestimating Charged Skewer in Elysium.
lime jolt
I think non CP2 you should be able to strip most armor with charged skewer + fiery + dash strikes
cunning urchin
But whether I need to Dash-Strike after the Special or not makes a big difference in time.
lime jolt
But the time it takes you to dash strike, your special resets
cunning urchin
Dash-Striking into an enemy that still can be very risky. Your Special won't stun them.
turbid needle
Simple example: If Heartbreak Flourish needs one hit to strip an Elite Spreader ...
I've crit SO MANY ENEMIES in Fire Emblem on the second hit when it was 110% overkill to disagree with this.
cunning urchin
But you could be using that time instead to reposition or Dash-Strike another enemy or to kill off the enemy that you just stripped off its armor instead of using your Dash-Strikes to strip off the armor.
turbid needle
Also, and maybe a little weird, at work I always pull one disposable glove, and then pull like 18, when I really wish I'd just pull 2 on the first or 1-and-1.
lime jolt
You have more experience than me in the game so I will not question you my queen
Don’t feed me to the crocodiles
Plz
cunning urchin
lime jolt
jovial fulcrum
I've crit SO MANY ENEMIES in Fire Emblem on the second hit when it was 110% over...
in FE5 you're more likely to crit on the follow up strike with most units 
like, literally. its a mechanic
real orchid
How do i know when to take pom fruits? At first i thought they were pretty bad compared to boons and sometimes even hp upgrades but im starting to see people doing way more damage than me and im assuming thats why
opal lodge
there arent a whole ton of AMAZING boons
at some point improving the boons you already have becomes very important
lime jolt
For example casts
opal lodge
most boons get around a 60% improvement on first pom, and others even more than that
jovial fulcrum
It depends on the specific boon, some scale more than others, but almost always you want a Pom over any meta resource (unless you're super early)
lime jolt
They have the nuttiest pom scaling in the game (most of them)
opal lodge
well you'll never be offered meta resource vs pom so thats not really a comparison
but like
if youre offered a pom vs a god you dont really want in your pool
slim lynx
pressure points has the best pom scaling because it never reduces
cunning urchin
There's a lot more involved than just choosing between a boon and a pom to get high DPS. I would say as good rule of thumb: any boon that adds another reliable source of damage to your DPS rotation without requiring you to change your rotation is better than a pom.
E.g. if you have lightning effects in your rotation, getting Static Discharge is better than a pom.
real orchid
Hmm okay i think that makes sense
cunning urchin
So you gauge the odds of getting something like that from the god vs what value your poms can give you.
real orchid
What about pom vs shop/hp up? Those are the ones i usually have to sit and think about
cunning urchin
For how to use your poms, you'll have to gauge how often the boon options will actually take effect in your DPS rotation and how high big the increase is in actual numbers.
opal lodge
most pom decisions are a little complicated
jovial fulcrum
that's just how much gold you have, for shop vs free pom/heart/boon
opal lodge
even up at the highest level i disagree with a lot of other people's pom decisions but generally watching top level runs helps
cunning urchin
Things like that are much easier to tell when you use ellomenop's DPS meter, of course. But it still requires a lot of trial and error.
opal lodge
usually top 100 or so speedrun.com submissions make pretty good decisions on the whole
cunning urchin
And yeah, watching top speedrunners and high heat players can help a lot with those decisions.
lime jolt
High heat players don’t get to make decisions
boreal prism
The hard part about pom decisions is that making really high level boons is really funny
cunning urchin
What about pom vs shop/hp up? Those are the ones i usually have to sit and think...
I would start off with always taking mid-shop over other exits (unless it's a friend room) and always taking poms or boons over HP to maximize your DPS. You'll get a lot of HP from just being forced into Centaur Heart exits anyway, or you pick them up from the shop here and there.
boreal prism
Level 17 dash boon won't help me beat dad but if I do then I get a cool pic
cunning urchin
Then from there, you can start to get a sense of how much HP you need to make it through this boss fight or that boss fight.
real orchid
I would start off with always taking mid-shop over other exits (unless it's a fr...
Okay, sounds good 😁 thanks!
boreal prism
I should value shops more...
turbid needle
depends on how much coin you have to spend
if you have 100 coin then it's never worth it
unless ur speedrunning
or desperately need heals
I'd say only go shop if you have enough to buy 2 or 3 items
otherwise you're better off taking the other option
opal lodge
shops are almost always terrible value unless you need the time, either to beat tight deadline or if youre speedrunning
turbid needle
honestly you're better off saving for styx shop
rare hermes is always worth it and theres usually other good stuff too
turbid needle
but where else are u gonna spen the money
jovial fulcrum
just use hoarding slash 
turbid needle
or that
opal lodge
if im not speedrunning i spend money in endshops
cunning urchin
I don't quite agree. At worst, you make free progress and don't lose any HP in a fight; at best, you can buy 2-3 rewards instead of only getting one.
boreal prism
Sometimes I do 5 tunnel in styx looking for a well to get a kiss from
turbid needle
imo, if you can only afford 1 item, shops arent worth taking most of the time
Getting a boon and then Pomming that boon?
jovial fulcrum
Casually, I almost never go to shop with less than enough money to buy one thing.
Ideally I want to be able to buy two things at least
turbid needle
Remember the talk earlier about how Static Discharge could make a Zeus build?
Well, now supercharge that Jolted with only 10 seconds of time passed on the clock.
cunning urchin
You don't get much reward from saving all your money for Hades. He won't care much for how rich you are.
turbid needle
unless hoarding slash 
cunning urchin
You're probably still better of spending that.
cunning urchin
Saving money is good if you want to buy bounties in the Temple of Styx shop.
turbid needle
also, having money to possibly buy a new dd before hades is good if required
jovial fulcrum
I think I've bought the styx bounty like twice ever lol.
opal lodge
probably slants us more that we usually run CF as well
lime jolt
Yeah that too
opal lodge
its very rare that you'll be able to buy multiple useful things from shop with CF2 LC4
lime jolt
I’d much rather die to em4 dad than drag myself through the whole game
lime jolt
How do you avoid CF at 40
Em4
cunning urchin
How do you avoid CF at 40
You put 2 Heat into something else.
static karma
I need to get good enough at timer to do JS2 with TD3, JS1 is tough on its own at 40
cunning urchin
or do you just not run TD2 pacts
I'd say 95% of my high heat runs have maxed TD.
lime jolt
Also I normally take JS1 at 40
static karma
TD2 pacts seem like they’d be not as fun
The 3 heat has to go somewhere else after all
opal lodge
well you just accept that your run will be harder in exchange for 5 sack insurance
slim lynx
such as js
cunning urchin
TD2 pacts to me are like oh cool I can take TD3 for 3 more Heat.
slim lynx
if you're running td2 you might as well run js smh
static karma
Do you run EM4
opal lodge
nah
vagrant maple
I would only really do td2 for a 10+ weapon streak
opal lodge
^
cunning urchin
I don't want laid back, anyway.
static karma
Stubborn defiance EM4 is too hard for me right now
opal lodge
yeah again, it's mostly run insurance
static karma
Also I don’t like making rooms take too long
slim lynx
there's a huge difference between td2 and td3, for td2 you can get away with js3
slim lynx
probably
cunning urchin
If I can't clear TD3 with a 5-sack, I blame myself.
vagrant maple
I find enough of my high heat runs die in normal rooms for the TD2 + 3 extra JS/CP not to be worth it
JS is not just a time loss
it kills you
static karma
Same with CP
vagrant maple
yeah CP kills you more
lime jolt
I normally slap on JS1 for funsies but yeah it’s bad
static karma
I tried CP1 at 40 and it was surprisingly a lot harder
I wondered why no one takes CP at 40 and found out
JS1 feels much easier than CP1
For me
vagrant maple
yes it is
lime jolt
It is
vagrant maple
pretty much always
lime jolt
The only thing that’s stopping me from going for 52+ hestia is CP
cunning urchin
JS3 turns Cloner Witches from oh nice a quick chamber to oh I die now.
static karma
Jury summons makes cloner enemies a lot rougher
lime jolt
Just game harder
lime jolt
Maybe I’ll try CP1 52 hestia and see how it goes
lime jolt
Secure my leaderboard spot
lime jolt
do it hell mode
I started my file today
static karma
So I always run LC4 for 32+ heat but I do wonder sometimes if running DDs would be easier
lime jolt
You can
static karma
4 heat is really nice though and SD isn’t that bad
static karma
I like to play fast
cunning urchin
Down with him!
💃🏽 🐸
🐊 🐊 🐊 🐊 🐊 🐊 🐊
opal lodge
32 heat with DDs is fine
i just run SDs on everything above like 15 though because im used to it
turbid needle
I run 50% healing on 32 if I'm not trying to speedrun.
static karma
I’m used to SD
cunning urchin
Should move this to #h1-high-heat-strategies, though.
vagrant maple
still going to do that DD 50 heat bright? lol
cunning urchin
Went far off the original topic of shops and poms to somehow talking about 50 Heat now? lol
jovial fulcrum
oooo, Triple Beam or Triple Bomb of Lucifer.
I dunno much about Lucifer, but i hear they're both pgood
no other hammers
(the third option is Eternal Chamber but it seems bad af)
surreal wasp
it is bad
slim lynx
eternal chamber is ass
surreal wasp
i pref triple bomb
slim lynx
triple bomb is not ass
slim lynx
especially if you get greater inferno then triple bomb is REALLY good
surreal wasp
lucifer has so many hammers
slim lynx
lucifer has like 4 hammers but the other hidden aspects get like one or two
jovial fulcrum
Still triple bomb even w/o a special boon?
slim lynx
what do you have on attack
jovial fulcrum
zooz +2 chaos strikes
slim lynx
triple laser it is
jovial fulcrum
can you shotgun with it?
jovial fulcrum
it seems like it?
slim lynx
i'd guess probably since triple shot with coronacht can shotgun
jovial fulcrum
its hard to test on brightswords tho
jovial fulcrum
rocket
balmy star
faster buff, i think we agree
jovial fulcrum
It lets you get instant eris buff
ye
can definitely shotgun.
Unless I have Pressure Points w/o Artemis and didn't notice
sweet hornet
I guess lambent plume doesn't care how fast you beat hades?
I didn't time it but I'm pretty sure I beat him quicker than asterius and theseus and I did get the 1.2% from them
jovial fulcrum
got triple bomb anyhow
I think it triggers after you dismiss the victory screen
for some reason
balmy star
i mean i'll likely get that in elysium
slim lynx
either one is great anyhow
balmy star
i do prefer rocket for the immediate buff
lots of burst
should i do faster attack or special?
seems like attack would make more sense now bc i have rocket but i thought id ask
slim lynx
if you're expecting to get cluster rockets you better have arty in your god pool so you can get crit later
is either one on common?
sweet hornet
you're right, it triggered after the victory screen
balmy star
oh baby, i've got arte epic special already
slim lynx
not really worth it if common
slim lynx
have you already gotten something from hermes?
balmy star
negative
sweet hornet
31.2% lambent plume
jovial fulcrum
f when i tabbed back in a fat fingered and chose a different hammer
slim lynx
you could go for hyper sprint and then rush delivery
it's a high-roll but very worth it
slim lynx
rng moment
balmy star
ooo no cluster bomb on elysium hammer
choices are 3-round burst, attack seeks foe for 10% more dmg or attack bounces to 1 additional dude
balmy star
idk what to pick this is my 2nd run on eris and the first one i got cluster in elysium
limber cloak
3 round burst is probably the best, if you have zeus attack
balmy star
ight bet
limber cloak
if you dont have zeus attack, take ricochet
balmy star
i do have zeus
limber cloak
ok
cunning urchin
Have you read Lili's Eris guide? https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/
sweet hornet
the one thing I have the hardest time aiming is the sword dash strikes
balmy star
Have you read Lili's Eris guide? https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rai...
i brisked through it yeah, it's a lot n i lazy to read it all
slim lynx
you should check out lili's rama guide
it's short, concise, easy to read and full of good, reliable tips on using rama
sweet hornet
why is zeus the best call (mentioned in that eris guide)
slim lynx
big dps
and since you're already building zeus, you can get clouded judgement and billowing strength
allowing you to build your call quickly and thus have a constant global damage boost
bonus points if you manage to get double strike and a pom on call
maybe even splitting bolt but that's overkill
if you don't get zeus' aid though then hades' aid is also ideal for the huge burst of dps the greater call gives
vagrant maple
zeus call lets you keep doing your other damage rotation
something like poseidon interupts that
so is less dps
sweet hornet
I've found zeus call's range to be a bit lacking
vagrant maple
eris is a melee weapon in speedruns haha
sweet hornet
I guess that's just l2p for me
slim lynx
eris is basically melee since you're constantly dashing into enemies with tidal dash
sweet hornet
right, firing and dashing and stacking call dmg on top
vagrant maple
you saw that for yourself from the dps mod -- dash did more damage than zeus attack
sweet hornet
yeah lol
vagrant maple
it's just so much damage
slim lynx
would you say sea storm is worth it for eris?
vagrant maple
it is quite good, but you don't often get it
slim lynx
it seems great since it's over +40 damage for dash
vagrant maple
because you have to take a "dead" boon in pos cast
slim lynx
and flood shot is already pretty decent
vagrant maple
flood shot is ok
slim lynx
i should probably check the codex more often, i always forget that i can just get flood shot for sea storm instead of flourish
vagrant maple
if you get a bunch of pos boons it's worth going for
slim lynx
would probably be better to get deadly flourish for cluster rockets + support fire
vagrant maple
yeah pos is pretty bad with cluster rockets
slim lynx
eris' damage boost is amazing because it also makes support fire even more of a big dps boost
honest wing
it makes everything an even more of a dps boost
lyric obsidian
can i know which gods give life aand money bonuses
slim lynx
aphrodite lets you gain more max hp from centaur hearts, centaur souls and darkness
demeter increases all healing by 35%
poseidon has a boon that increases gemstones, darkness and gold gained throughout the current run and also a boon that straight up just gives you gold, healing, darkness, gemstones, (sometimes) nectar and (rarely) diamonds
cunning urchin
Lord Dionysus has Premium Vintage and After Party.
slim lynx
hermes also has side hustle which gives you a bit of gold upon entering a chamber
cunning urchin
Lord Hermes also has Quick Recovery for healing.
Oh yeah, there's also Strong Drink from Lord Dionysus.
slim lynx
quick recovery i wouldn't recommend since it's very inconsistent and unreliable
cunning urchin
Nonetheless, it can be the best choice that's offered.
lyric obsidian
Sometims
slim lynx
i guess it's better than +10% speed boost to your special/attack lol
slim lynx
plume honestly isn't really great unless you're able to consistently clear out enemies quickly
that's coming from the guy who said plume was overpowered literally the first time he used it
lyric obsidian
Same
slim lynx
before realizing it may as well only be used in zag fists runs
lyric obsidian
Problem is rng is kinda
Broken
I noticed 30% crit with the bow and Artemis with flurry
The amount of crits I get feels way more than
30%
While my dodge even with over 50% felt lacking
jovial fulcrum
Variance is a thing
stable compass
just finished zeus shield with zeus everything boon
any other fun zeus shield builds?
jovial fulcrum
i hear ME works well on zooz shield
slim lynx
divine flourish + curse of agony
the good part is that it doesn't need divine dash this time
limber cloak
zag sword is just "dont use me pls there are 3 other good aspects of sword"
though yeah, ME is the build for zag sword
the meme build would be flurry slash
and maybe even cursed slash lol
slim lynx
doesn't say a lot about an aspect if me is one of the few good builds for it
flurry slash feels like it would be amazing on zag sword but i've said this countless times, the dps is PATHETIC
jovial fulcrum
the real meme build for Zag Sword is get Plume, force Rush Delivery and then profit
limber cloak
"profit" lol
jovial fulcrum
moving so fast you can't control your zag
limber cloak
even epic rd is only 15% more dmg on zag sword
and plume is only like 35-40% more dmg
not a lot
again, if you wanna play sword, there are 3 other good aspects
slim lynx
the real meme build for Zag Sword is get Plume, force Rush Delivery and then pro...
assuming you're ever gonna proc plume
limber cloak
all of which have different playstyles and fun builds
jovial fulcrum
- purple haste :O
or Hyper Sprint
limber cloak
i mean
jovial fulcrum
the possibilities are endless
limber cloak
if youre going to go that route
might as well just play poseidon lightning phalanx
get hyper delivery
and watch heroes die in 7 seconds
stable compass
oh that's intersting.. i'll give it a try. cause i've been playing poseidon too much
limber cloak
nemesis is a good break from poseidon
stable compass
i haven't upgraded it yet. lol.. need more titan blood
limber cloak
its very fun if you can get heartrend or run ME on it
nemesis is fine even on lvl 1 or 2
better than zag sword, that is
jovial fulcrum
can you get Heroic delivery? like, the only way is Eurydice right
turbid needle
heart rend on nemmy is juicy
slim lynx
nemesis is fun but from my experience on 32 heat with it... it can be stressful to play in certain situation
stable compass
only reason why i have max sword is to do skelly bond lol
slim lynx
oh god i'm having flashbacks to almost dying in elysium
stable compass
can you get Heroic delivery? like, the only way is Eurydice right
rare crop works
jovial fulcrum
oh yeah, that too
slim lynx
heroic rare crop
slim lynx
yeah no
i'd say it's straight up not possible
unless it has some weird interaction with eurydice
refreshing nectar/yarn doesn't stack with exclusive access so no point in testing that
jovial fulcrum
lmao
proven osprey
It's not needed for a WR
limber cloak
its not needed, but it certainly looks awesome lol
tounis was recently on wr pace, but got 5 sacked, he had epic rd
hearty elbow
Oh no Astaos is awake. I have made a grave error.
proven osprey
Oh no Astaos is awake. I have made a grave error.
If I'm awake you should not be
hearty elbow
🙃
turbid needle
groovy :p
stable compass
i think it's 5%.. i got it once or twice
unique shale
However, I managed to get through 16 heat once again
unique shale
I got 26 :p
Oh :(
turbid needle
it was my first attempt so I'm not too bothered, I'll get there eventually :)
unique shale
This is like my fifth attempt getting +28% damage
valid dagger
rip
turbid needle
what weapon/aspect are you using?
maybe try spear, it's easy to use and has moderate range
also, taking athena boons, especially on dash and attack, will be very helpful
unique shale
what weapon/aspect are you using?
Used Chiron
Ahh yes, always confuse myself with Hera and Hestia though they're different weapon aspects. Used Hera bow with flood shot and rupture
Divine Dash and Zeus special
limber cloak
chiron isnt best, the special animation is long and locks you in place
honest wing
damn the amount of times I've read that on this server
turbid needle
^
unique shale
chiron isnt best, the special animation is long and locks you in place
I see, Thanks for the heads-up
I never touch bow unless I go for this Pierced Butterfly achievement
Constantly switches between Arthur, Hades, Chaos and Demeter's aspects
turbid needle
you're probably better off with your best weapon, regardless of what it is
valid dagger
I went with Guan Yu Charged Skewer
lime jolt
I kept getting with with charged skewer
opal vortex
You can only use your summon once during dad fight, right?
turbid needle
yuh
split relic
For beo rn I got charge shot and passion flare
Wut other things can I pair it with?
I wanna beat theseus extreme measures
opal lodge
humza for your current run you can go for mirage shot
dusky drum
and take stygian soul so you can get bad news
opal lodge
or snow burst
split relic
Heck oki
dusky drum
ive heard pos cast is also good
dusky drum
ahh sorry for being a bit late ;w;
split relic
Too*
split relic
humza for your current run you can go for mirage shot
So should I put on poseidon keepsake?
dusky drum
disregard what im saying
opal lodge
do you have arty attack already?
dusky drum
parting shot could be cool
opal lodge
i would force arty attack
split relic
Oki
opal lodge
then you can force mirage later
dusky drum
parting shot is not available on beowulf
oh yea ill just leave then, im not being helpful :<
turbid needle
Does Super Nova work with Arthur's Hallowed Ground?
silver summit
EM3 is gonna be easier than non-EM3 once when you get used to it
split relic
Ye
turbid needle
100% agreed. Also Theseus is having the time of his life.
split relic
Fr
silver summit
Bull man scary but Theseus becomes a ton easier
mild raft
Theseus is easier for sure
silver summit
so it doesn't balance out, and therefore becomes overall easier
mild raft
But bull man very scary
silver summit
just stay away from him
lime jolt
EM3 is gonna be easier than non-EM3 once when you get used to it
I disagree with that on so many levels
lime jolt
Even the main fight is scary
Theseus has so much area denial
So you don’t have much space to fight minotaur
mild raft
Yea thesus essentially makes the arena 30% smaller
You think you have so much more room than you actually do
lime jolt
The only thing that makes the main fight better is acorn
mild raft
Bullet noises
limber cloak
My only experience with em3 is on high heat, so yeah i hate it
I think with fo0, it's a bit forgiving though
Still not easier than the normal fight imo
turbid needle
Whaaat. Em3 was like the quickest I ever completed that fight. My tactic of running around in huge circles screaming for help worked wonderfully to keep me away from shiny bullman.
turbid needle
whats a hp build
lyric obsidian
basically i went for all the boons that give u bonuses for hp
like dionidous,aphrodite,dermemeter
lyric obsidian
its very succesfull if u hve hermes boon for money
and his dash and damage red
and if u get lifesteal
ur pretty much set
dusky drum
both are amazing once you max them
split relic
Oki
Rama seems not bad so far at lvl1
Chiron seems very bad tho so far
Compared to rama
Might max tjat
static karma
Chiron is bad at level 1
split relic
Ahh
static karma
It really needs levels
real orchid
chiron is really good once you level it up tho
i think #1 non-eris speedrun is with chiron
valid dagger
It's third, Beowulf is second atm
proven osprey
+75% damage
split relic
Ahh
silver summit
jolted and electric stuff
hearty elbow
Except companion damage. Pff, it's not Targetting System after all
cunning urchin
Well, it buffs the damage Zagreus deals, not the damage enemies receive.
hearty elbow
I assume Hades spear would work that way if it didn't specifically state Attack/Special
But pretty sure Sweet Surrender doesn't buff companion damage either
proven osprey
it does
real orchid
if i'm running privileged status with chiron bow, what status effect should i pull for other than aphrodite? i could try to get dio cast or demeter dash but im not sure what is best
proven osprey
You could go for Aphrodite on the attack and Dionysus on the special and then aim for low tolerance
patent raven
And if you do those, make sure you have Privileged Status on in the mirror. I’ve forgotten that too often.
Oops, I missed that.
sweet hornet
so I only have AP and RI remaining for the prophecy - do I suffer through both in the same run or split them up and suffer for two runs?
valid dagger
What do I use for dio beo?
Use Stygian Soul and try to aim for more casts from Chaos, Faster Cast Regen from Hermes is good, aswell as his Legendary, as for Duos you can look for Sci Feast (Zeus-Dio)
valid dagger
so I only have AP and RI remaining for the prophecy - do I suffer through both i...
Both in same run, double the fun 
split relic
Use Stygian Soul and try to aim for more casts from Chaos, Faster Cast Regen fro...
So like u can stack dio fog
A lot
valid dagger
Well it depends on how many casts you get and how fast your casts are regenerating, but yes if this build ramps up and gets what it needs, you’ll be casting a lot
So that lightning from Zeus if you get the Duo will be quite a bit
jovial fulcrum
Yeah. Start w/ Dio
Zeus is your #1 second god, if you get offered Aphrodite naturally that's also amazing (mostly because Aphro is great with Zeus, who you want to force in Asphodel already)
split relic
Pki
lime jolt
I don’t think scint feast is better than mirage or bad news
lime jolt
40 heat doesn’t become a problem with dio beo
Also this was the only good dio beo run I’ve had
jovial fulcrum
bad news op
the main thing Schint Feast does is make your cast apply jolted, but you're probably killing every trash mob with the initial impact anyhow
jovial fulcrum
For Beo, There's also Demeter pick up.
lime jolt
That too
jovial fulcrum
Ravenous Will + Snow Burst are both great
lime jolt
Snow burst is so freaking good
jovial fulcrum
Ice Wine is there, if that's your jam
lime jolt
Not with dio tho
jovial fulcrum
I hate the delay ice wine gives personally
lime jolt
Snow burst or ice wine arent great with beo
jovial fulcrum
Snowburst helps a ton with flamehweels in elysium, in my experience
Probably good for numbskulls too, if you can get it that early
oh and the baby rats in styx
static karma
So can call ever be offered as a replacement boon or no? I don’t think I’ve seen a call replacement
turbid needle
I wanna say yes.
turbid needle
But I'm not sure I've ever tested that.
jovial fulcrum
Gosh, I can't remember now either
mild raft
Pretty sure there’s something with calls not being able to be offered if you have any other call
Plus there’s ||dad keepsake|| which I think is evident of something with keeping calls separate as well
hollow wraith
I can't beat em4 hades for the life of me. I've beat regular loads of times but em4 I struggle to even get to last phase
magic rivet
Take something which allows you to be as far away from dad as possible
Like Crystal Clarity
hollow wraith
does slippery defiance give me an extra defiance above my 3 or does it just refill to 3
turbid needle
extra
jovial fulcrum
when you use it, it stays and can be refilled w/ Kiss of Styx as well
or Athena boons
hollow wraith
Argghhhh I made it like 1/3 of way through hades phase 3 with it but It was just impossible to not get hit
Who gives the boon that fires a second cast with 30% less damage. seems like it could be good with crystal clarity
hollow wraith
Also I used to get the attack rapidly but no spin daedalus hammer all the time but I haven't seen it in like 25 runs
ty
hollow wraith
That's hwat I thought I'm just really confused it never spawns anymore
jovial fulcrum
if you already have a hammer that augments your spin, you can't be offered flurry jab anymore
so there's a lot of hammers that make it so you can't get Flurry Jab off the second hammer
hollow wraith
I've mostly been going for the special upgrades
hollow wraith
Like Crystal Clarity
awwww no. I tried the build and got 5 casts. Got him down to 1/3 hp and I died thinking I had another life. It did amazing damage
strange lark
bruh how
hollow wraith
One was from chaos another I think was a boon
magic rivet
Oh never mind
Yeah you don't use infernal for Crystal Clarity
Stygian will net you far more lasers
hollow wraith
Ah I always forget about stygian I'll try it
strange lark
infernal can get you 5 beams, but stygian can get you 10 beams
hollow wraith
does same go for blade rift
hollow wraith
gotcha I'll try that