if you could get a heroic one it's even nicer
#h1-builds-and-combat
flat garden
tame zodiac
I see. Have to try it out. I only use infernal soul
static karma
Ok so weird question but what does parting shot even do exactly
flat garden
it gives your casts the ability to gain bonus backstab damage that you already have
and adds additional backstab damage
is it that confusing? i think ive seen a lot of people asking about it
spiral badge
Parting shot makes a lot more sense if you read the description bottom up
The devs have confirmed that’s the way it works iirc. No idea why it’s phrased so terribly. Say it backwards in your head and the perk makes a lot more sense
spiral badge
Yeah
vague hearth
Yeah, the description always felt a bit odd to me
cloud vault
It's just two things
This duo boon does two things.
It improves backstab damage and allows casts to backstab.
brazen nest
I was wondering where does the shackle falls in the meta
At lvl3 it's a 100%+ bonus, that's double the highest bonus for strike with boons
But boons being able to level up and having varied rarity and such
cloud vault
And they also have other advantages like applying weak
brazen nest
And privileged status and some status curse boosting boons
cloud vault
It also locks you out of having a different keepsake
brazen nest
Like killing freeze or demeter legendary
It's kinda good for a tartarus where you don't have a clear build in mind
But maybe the pom is better in that case
spiral badge
Shackle is great for the upper ends of heat where doing a run boonless or effectively boonless is going to be a real probability during a run
Especially with high damage weapons that benefit from it
Things like hestia and rama
brazen nest
Cause of underworld customs?
half crater
because of approval process mostly
spiral badge
And RI tbh
brazen nest
Which one is that?
brazen nest
Ah yeah
half crater
RI plays a roll, but AP2 is the key factor here
spiral badge
RI Takes away mirror perks which takes away addtl boon rooms
scaling is always the issue when doing shackle
So you want to shore yourself up with lots of chaos and well items
brazen nest
I'm was thinking if I can max weapons/keepsakes and such I may not go into higher heat
Mostly cause I like to chill a lot
spiral badge
Especially well stuff since you’re not going to be buying many things in shops with CF2 adding +80% cost to everything
then shackle is just a great meme
For chill runs
brazen nest
I got kinda tunnel visioned of going fast
And this took the fun part of escaping and made me play worse
Specially with talos which was one of my best weapons
I got hit way too much by everything trying to go too fast
spiral badge
cranking up heat can help be the next step in your evolution by helping you get hit less while retaining speed
Turns out, having 40% faster enemies dealing +100% damage can teach you a lot about the value of staying mobile lol
still learning that lesson every day
brazen nest
I was dashing a lot, but dashing wrong
Dashing into attacks
Specially against bosses
spiral badge
Yup. True understanding is in transitioning from dashing all the time just because, to dashing all the time but you know exactly where you’re going and what you’re doing with each dash
brazen nest
I'm going to go a sweet EM3 with no time limit lol and then em4
spiral badge
do it. Pump those weights up bro. Get them thumbs swole
brazen nest
Most weapons are at heat 6 anyway
brazen nest
I was doing hahaha I just got caught with going fast lol
spiral badge
20-40 is easily more than double the difficulty gap of 0-20
spiral badge
nice 👍🏻
formal fjord
First guan yu run incoming, what do I need to think of and what do I take?
cloud vault
Think of having half hp and take a lot of patience
formal fjord
Hmm ok thanks
Is demeter cast just very trash overall or am I missing something? What do I even pair it with?
took it for prophecy now
turbid needle
Depending on a duo is generally a bad idea though
limber cloak
ares cast and demeter cast are both like that
limber cloak
yeah it is, demeter cast is also good when you get her tier twos
like glacial glare
turbid needle
I only took ares cast once and it seemed usable. Big downside is that I don't get the benefits for casts being "stuck"
tough ridge
hey guys, whats the best build to cheese high heat levels? or weapon preferly?
hearty mulch
8 is pretty easy
limber cloak
you can do anything at 8
and 16
at 32 it gets a bit hard
but still, you can do basically anything
fervent elbow
Whatever weapon you are comfortable with
hearty mulch
^
limber cloak
good pact choices are important though
hearty mulch
If you're going for 8 heat, it's basically like a normal run
tough ridge
well its funny because i figured using the rail would rape everything but i misjudge the damage the enemy does to me lol
limber cloak
em, and td are your best choices. after which, middle management and benefits package are decent. damage control can be decent on a weapon that can easily break through it
tough ridge
is there a chart for heat levels that are easy to use vs others?
hearty mulch
well its funny because i figured using the rail would rape everything but i misj...
It does... If used properly and with proper pact setups.
limber cloak
is there a chart for heat levels that are easy to use vs others?
yes
check pinned message in #h1-high-heat-strategies
though it is for 32 heat
it still applies to 16 and 8 pretty much
tough ridge
ah ok ty
spiral badge
EM2, BP1, MM, and TD2 are 10 heat together iirc and you basically won’t notice they exist
boss and mini boss fights will get a little harder, and random armored enemies are slightly harder, but after your second or third time clearing that you’ll basically forget it’s there
mild raft
Yea same here
tough ridge
before i get started on the high heat levels, i gotta use up my shards to buff up stubborn defiance and other stuff, do you guys perfer Aspect of Chaos or Zeus for shield?
spiral badge
You’re gonna hear a lot of answers for both
Zeus is my pick. I don’t chaos
Also dont be afraid of going over the heat line
tough ridge
i really want to slap all my titan blood on chaos lol
spiral badge
You won’t get any extra rewards for doing more levels than you have to
tough ridge
i tried zeus, its not bad
mild raft
I think most people agree that Zeus is better for high heat runs
spiral badge
But you also won’t ever miss out on anything
mild raft
But it’s harder to play
spiral badge
Zeus is 9000iq caveman unga bunga play
If that makes sense
And it’s one of the most adaptable weapons in the game
tough ridge
i do like that zeus is basically a beyblade and if you reverse it back to you, you can just dash around and itll follow you infintely until you stop
hearty mulch
it's also a good weapon for ME builds
spiral badge
when you’re in the zone with zeus you’re really in the zone
hearty mulch
Athena Strike, Ares Special
tough ridge
oh yeah the deflect!
LOL
ok ill max both
whats is the best aspect worth unlocking of the 6 weapons? i opened guanyu and it was meh
spiral badge
shield and bow probably have the strongest overall stables of aspects
tough ridge
the best aspect for all six weapons?
like the ones where you need to talk to peeps
spiral badge
if you’re early I tell people to invest in zag weapons. They’re great value picks and only cost 5 blood to max out
spiral badge
They will carry you much further into the game to where you can afford the more expensive 15-16 blood aspects
spiral badge
easy: Beowulf.
Rama has entered the chat
fervent elbow
I've done Lucifer at 50 heat so it must be good
spiral badge
rama just rustles my jimmies in general
Such a well rounded kit
whole screen go big kaboom
tough ridge
beowulf is the shield?
hearty mulch
Rama is good in attack builds, special builds, and a whole lot more
hearty mulch
beowulf is the shield?
yeah
tough ridge
what makes it so good considering you taking 10% damage lol
limber cloak
beo can put out good damage
spiral badge
rama and zeus are probably tied for aspects that DGAF about boon builds at the end of the day
limber cloak
10% more dmg is literally nothing
rama is objectively the best high heat hidden aspect
fervent elbow
You don't take damage if your foes are already dead
limber cloak
since it is the only aspect to have completed 60 heat
hearty mulch
yeah, 10% more damage isn't anything at all
even against some of the highest damaging attacks in the game like some of Hades's attacks, at best, it's only about a 1 or 2 health difference
which matters just as much as it sounds
limber cloak
well its not a 1 or 2 health difference
more like a 10 health difference
but yeah
not too bad when you can block + charged shot exists!
hearty mulch
if it was a 10 health difference, it'd assume their attacks did 100 damage
honest wing
what's the easiest heat setup for 32 heat
limber cloak
if it was a 10 health difference, it'd assume their attacks did 100 damage
i just did the math, yeah nvm
around 5 health then probably
limber cloak
what's the easiest heat setup for 32 heat
check pinned message in #h1-high-heat-strategies
hearty mulch
5 health at absolute worst
yeah, check the pinned message there for 32 heat setups
it's a great place to get started
you can then do any alterations to suit your playstyle or weapon choice
limber cloak
i wanna do a worst 32 heat pact run some day
full RI, AP2, HS and the like
max jury summons with td3 
hearty mulch
DON'T FORGET CALISTHENICS PROGRAM!
spiral badge
AP2 RI2 FO4 HS HL5 LC4 EM4
hearty mulch
limber cloak
lol
hearty mulch
Also, FO4???
spiral badge
I’m standing by it
hearty mulch
Doesn't FO go up to 2??????
spiral badge
Suffer
limber cloak
this is getting too cursed
hearty mulch
FO4
enemies move 80% faster
suffer.
spiral badge
Legit sad there’s not a turbo mode in this game that pushes FO even further beyond but also buffs zag to give you a fighting chance
Gungeon spoiled me so much with all its party modes
hearty mulch
Hades
Kaizo mode
gotta either pray for Athena Dash or exploit the shizz out of dash i-frames
spiral badge
32 heat rainbow boons when
idle moat
gotta either pray for Athena Dash or exploit the shizz out of dash i-frames
is there any other way to play lol
mild raft
Seastorm rama*
honest wing
dio attack hestia
robust anchor
i did dio atk arthur it wasnt so bad
spiral badge
dio attack hestia
Ricochet shot and bad influence for the galaxy brain right here
hearty mulch
i did dio atk arthur it wasnt so bad
yeah but it aint exactly the best option
robust anchor
wow really
honest wing
also beowulf with zeus cast succ right
hearty mulch
Pos Cast Beo is literally the meta for that weapon
mild raft
I’ve heard Aphro and Arti casts can work but aren’t the best
mild raft
Guys Ares cast Beo tho
hearty mulch
beyblade beo
mild raft
Think about it
hearty mulch
beybeo
lost harness
does punishing swipe buffs external damage ?
lime jolt
no
robust anchor
boons will stack additively but crit will work multiplicatively so art attack is better with hades spear
hearty mulch
huh
honest wing
I should try crush shot and true shot on beo for the memes
but I need to genuinely try out pos cast
lime jolt
Crush shot legitimately good on beo
I got my 32 shield with crush shot beo
Also wdym stack additively. Does that mean that it just adds the percentage of your attack to your attack?
honest wing
does it increase the radius of crush shot?
lime jolt
Yes
honest wing
I'd actually rather try out crush shot on hera
lime jolt
it does big aoe damage
spiral badge
Additively means BASE ATK + BASE X Aphro
lime jolt
And multiplicative means it multiplies your attack by that percentage?
spiral badge
So 100+ (100 x 1.5=50) = 150
lime jolt
Additively means BASE ATK + BASE X Aphro
ok thats what I thought
hearty mulch
pos beo is good because it does bigger aoe damage, alongside having tier 2 boons which boost its damage even further
and if you get Sea Storm, consider it curtains for most enemies in the game
robust anchor
yes if you’re familiar with math thats how itll work
spiral badge
Multiplicative takes BASE, adds Artemis damage into base I think? Then multiplies the whole thing by 300% to arrive at final damage
robust anchor
yes rash
spiral badge
Which is why Artemis scales so well
lime jolt
is 300% the crit?
lime jolt
Where does the 300% damage come from?
spiral badge
1x ordinary damage is already in play
lime jolt
I just didnt understand what they meant in this context
tough ridge
alright imma start farming my other mirror side lol
lime jolt
So what Im understanding is that for example hestia(150 damage) with an aphro 150% damage bonus would do 375 damage but an artemis attack with 37 % damage bonus + crit would do 616.5 damage?
that doesnt sound right
what I did for the artemis attack was 150 base damage x 2(200% crit damage) all of that multiplied by 0.37(damage bonus) and then added that to the base damage
lime jolt
but artemis %bonus is 37
mild raft
100*0.37 would be 37
spiral badge
Unless I’m reading you wrong
lime jolt
So without crit I would assume the damage would be 150(0.37) + 150
lime jolt
You’re not losing damage from Artemis boobs
hehe
robust anchor
no
mild raft
150(1.37)
robust anchor
150(1.37)
spiral badge
Don’t edit it unova
spiral badge
Let it sit for the record
robust anchor
she gives +37% on top of your natural 100% dmg
spiral badge
Pengy you gotta remember that 1 is crucial when you feed something into a multiplier buddy
lime jolt
And she is the only god that does that
robust anchor
you already do 100% dmg untouched
spiral badge
Anything multiplied by 0 is going to end up at 0
So anything multiplied by something that starts with 0. Is heading down no matter what
spiral badge
That’s why that 1 is important
robust anchor
math class 😎
mild raft
The bonuses are additive
mild raft
You have to find the 37% and then add it to the original
lime jolt
ok thats what I thought
lime jolt
I even looked on the website
spiral badge
Yeah. Unless I’m mistake the calculation for crit should be (BASE x 1.37) X 3
robust anchor
yes
spiral badge
To arrive at a final number of damage dealt
That represents 100% of original damage and 200% of added crit
mild raft
Right but bonuses in this game are additive not multiplicative
lime jolt
Damage = Base Damage
× (1 + Sum of Critical Damage Bonus)
× (1 + Sum of Regular Damage Bonuses)
× (Product of (1 - Damage Reductions))
spiral badge
Except artemis*
mild raft
Except crit*
honest wing
ok but what the actual frick is guan yu charged skewer
spiral badge
Which is why she is s-tier
Ok the base may be additive
You’re right about that, I’m not sure on that part
mild raft
Crit and things like Twin Shot are the only multiplicative damage bonuses in the game
spiral badge
Gotcha, so it calculates base like an ordinary boon, additively, then crit is applied multiplicatively
lime jolt
Lol its been so long since we have done percentage stuff in math. We are doing like geometry proofs and stuff right now
mild raft
Yup
lime jolt
So the output would be 616.5 right?
mild raft
looks to be that way
honest wing
man
should I take unhealthy fixation with guan yu aphro spear attack and deadly flourish
or empty inside
mild raft
Brain see yellow brain pick yellow
honest wing
coz I'm going for heart rend
honest wing
Brain see yellow brain pick yellow
fair enough
lime jolt
So lets say that x is the damage output without a crit so x = (150 x 0.37) + 150.
then lets say that y is the damage with a crit. Y = X x 3? Am I right here?
mild raft
yea
honest wing
ooh or should I roll
mild raft
Just take Unhealthy it's funny
lime jolt
^^^
lime jolt
Math is fun
honest wing
yeet got heart rend
spiral badge
Lollllll
lime jolt
So technically the only reason artemis is good is because of the multiplicative crits?
spiral badge
Big damage gud
honest wing
green number gud
spiral badge
Biggest damage god guddest
honest wing
lmao
mild raft
Artemis is good because while other gods have quirky gimmicks like wall slams or alcohol, her gimmick is just having more damage
honest wing
yea lmao
same with ares
but ares is external damage while artemis is just multiplicative
lime jolt
i really dont like ares except for ME builds
slim lynx
doom usually doesn't even work well on fast or slow weapons
lime jolt
Ive seen people do doom chiron and its just like why....?
slim lynx
ME chiron
the best part about merciful end on chiron is that it actually works with dire misfortune
slim lynx
it is just a meme build after all
honest wing
how does rush delivery work with hyper sprint
does it only apply while you're under the effect of the sprint
and should I have taken swift flourish for more consistency over that
slim lynx
yeah it applies while sprint is active
hyper sprint + rush delivery basically makes your dash-strike do a lot of damage
honest wing
damn I'm getting 2k crits
lime jolt
Still rush delivery+ hyper sprint is very good
spiral badge
Rush delivery applies to whatever movement bonuses zag has right at that very moment
So outside of hyper sprint zag will see passive benefits from haste, plume, zag sword etc as well
Note that this bonus only cares for one variable, and that’s zag’s actual movespeed stat. Zag’s actual velocity doesn’t apply to rush delivery when using, say, posiedon call or somesuch. At least from what I understand
spiral badge
If I have to put my programmer hat on for a second
Rush delivery calls on the line Zag_movespeed or whatever to arrive at its bonus
That movespeed is basically zag’s running speed
dusky drum
im in my 2nd year of a computer science class but like idk what the actual hard coding is for hades :3
spiral badge
Zag’s actual velocity across the screen at times can have nothing to do with that number
That’s all I’m saying
Neither do I, I’ve just been around enough software geeks that I’m wagering what I say based on putting myself in their shoes
It makes stone cold sense to do it that way, and that’s usually a programmer’s favorite kind of sense
dusky drum
lol yea
i mean considering its a call that affects move speed i would assume its a hard coded value that isnt changed
spiral badge
Software is endlessly pedantic though. The pedantic coder tells me that zag_movespeed and zag_velocity are not always necessarily the same value, and rush delivery probably only cares about one if I had to guess
dusky drum
just like if(god_gauge == requireed amount)
{
activate offensive bit
mess with any move stuff if its ares/pos
}
thats what i kinda expect
spiral badge
Otherwise you open the door for some very weird damage interactions
If actual velocity can affect damage output greatly
But idk I didn’t build this game
dusky drum
yea truee
idek what the purpose of a velocity variable would be besides the moves that throw him forward
but even then that can be made with just an animation
saves on code
spiral badge
I don’t even know that it is a variable
It may just be an output of different interactions coming together
But something in the backend is definitely keeping track of whether or not zag’s base run speed is 100%, 130%, 200% etc
dusky drum
yea yea and i have a feeling for the sake of simplicity its just int moveSpeed = 100 or smth
spiral badge
which is the movespeed that I’ll bet dollars to donuts that rush delivery pulls from
Programmers dont like headaches. Programmers like simple things and systems that don’t unravel because of ease of strange, hard to replicate 1-time interactions like velocity interacting with damage
that’s my thinking
dusky drum
yea i get that
abstract flower
Are there any aspects that aren't as good as others?
spiral badge
zag spear rip
dusky drum
tbh any wep is good in this game
i just have a distaste to all zag ones unless im messing around with move speed or dodge
abstract flower
What about zag shield and zag rail?
dusky drum
the pure damage buff to zag shield is nice tbh
spiral badge
Zag shield has a special place in my heart as the way to play this game like a caveman, as Zeus intended
dusky drum
and the rail it depends hwat youre into
spiral badge
And zag rail is just brain-off Eris
Which is neither good nor bad
Zag bow is a slept on gem, I’ll vouch for that
dusky drum
eh i wont
i honestly think all zag weps are worse in comparision
but like im not everyone else and people like what they like
im just a bow enjoyer :3
is the hades call any good??
ive used it a couple of times and didnt ilke it much
robust anchor
maybe, with a super fast weapon like eris
but the opportunity cost of no acorn or tooth kinda sad
and if u got another call then u cant use it
lime jolt
Zag bow is a slept on gem, I’ll vouch for that
Yes
lime jolt
is the hades call any good??
You get a 100% damage bonus while invisible
dusky drum
oh ok
hoary slate
small call isn't only one hit either
lime jolt
Its good for speedrunning
robust anchor
what does small call do
dusky drum
id probably have to use it a coupel more times to really get an opinion but i try to have a call by hades
generally a pos/aphro
quiet tide
Y'all ever just miss an Aphro Greater Call because Hades turns invisible a second after you send it
dusky drum
yeaaaa
yall ever miss both a greater call and companion since you forgot what the button was
quiet tide
Half the time I use my companion it's because I pressed the wrong button
My hand just isn't optimized for keyboard gaming
cosmic olive
Yo guys help me please, how do I do damage with the shield? I am already in asphodel but I have so weak boons, or idk
vague hearth
Yo guys help me please, how do I do damage with the shield? I am already in asph...
Also which boons and/or hammer do you have
dusky drum
Yo guys help me please, how do I do damage with the shield? I am already in asph...
lmao me too tbh, it hard to
you need specific setups for each shield
cosmic olive
each shield? I know about only 1 shield
cosmic olive
Also which boons and/or hammer do you have
I have a lot, can I share them somehow?
I guess the icons themselves won't help
cosmic olive
I can't paste images here, wtf...
vague hearth
Images can't be posted
dusky drum
I can't paste images here, wtf...
yeaaa its a server thing, what everyone does is take links
vague hearth
Dm it to me, friend
dusky drum
like upload it to imgur and drop link
vague hearth
Oh, thay works too
mild raft
Shield likes to bullrush into enemies and dash attack to deal some damage
spiral badge
You can just use generalizations like saying you have ares on special and Aphrodite on attack
mild raft
and depending on what hammers you have you can throw a special in there every once and a while
spiral badge
That’s an easy way to describe a setup
vague hearth
Dash strike builds are my default with shield
stone escarp
howm's't to max out rush delivery
stone escarp
epic rush delivery + epic greater haste + lament plume + nemesis sword for dash strikes + artemis attack probably
oh and hyper sprint
Rush delivery deals bonus damage based on move speed buffs
dusky drum
ohh yea
stone escarp
epic rush delivery is 100% of speed bonuses
stone escarp
so if you have a 20% greater haste, you have a 20% damage bonus
dusky drum
theres also the shop item
stone escarp
oh yes
dusky drum
so like attack/special, general move, the dash one, the call one maybe + shop
and that might be all you can get but idk
with plume too
and sword
so yea you should be able to get over 100% ez
stone escarp
plume can get you to like 40% right?
dusky drum
abt 33 ish
i did a run where i never took shops and i got like 33
so like maybe upwards of 40% but generally 30-38
stone escarp
mm yeah
lets call it 35
okay so let's assume you get your hands on two ichors too
so here's math
hyper sprint +100%, plume +35%, ignited ichors +20%, greater haste +40%,
dusky drum
sword gives you 15%
dusky drum
and move :3
stone escarp
oh pog
dusky drum
yea its both
stone escarp
dfasfskldfsadf
poh [pohpgog
is it 30% or 15%
I remember it not being that great
dusky drum
and second wind, idk how much that gives at epic tho
ummm 15
all zag weps have 15% bonuses i think
or at least most
stone escarp
nemesis has 30% crits
let's also address how frikin funny the second wind icon looks
Zag frikin nyooms
dusky drum
hehe yea
stone escarp
Epic:
Bonus Dodge Chance & Move Speed: +45%
second wind gives 45 after call
so if you get smoldering air
you're pogging
stone escarp
get arctic special and passion dash as well to get PV going
.... is PV multiplicative or additive? because if it's additive it's almost not worth it
dusky drum
hyper sprint +100%, plume +35%, ignited ichors +20%, greater haste +40%, +45% from second wind, 15% from sword
stone escarp
PS
dusky drum
i think addative
stone escarp
frick
dusky drum
almost all damage is additive in this game
so we are at 275% move rn
with optimal stuff
dusky drum
i mean considering that 40% kinda makes dashing useless for normal speed
then 275 would probably be uncontrolable
stone escarp
hehe
so if you smack hard with this, let's say you have one chaos dash strike, and you're calling with Athena and getting that free dash dash damage
let's calc this damage
30 damage base sword, artemis attack
epic artemis attack, so let's say 40% damage... no level ups, or a lower tier but with levels
actually let's just say it's 50
okay here we go
dusky drum
and how much for that chaos dash??
stone escarp
?calc
oh Dyno can't calculate here
?calculate
darn
moment
Chaos lunge can do anywhere from 30 to 120
stone escarp
do you just wanna say 100
dusky drum
idk if im doing it in the right order
stone escarp
because average
dusky drum
sure
stone escarp
let's say 100
dusky drum
yea about 187.5
stone escarp
( 100 + 35 + 20 + 40 + 45 + 15 + 50 + 100 ) * 3
brisk seal
stone escarp
I need to translate that to percents off of 30 base
dusky drum
i thought that the rush delivery was +% of the speed buff
not just +the number that the % is
dusky drum
ah ok
stone escarp
hEARt REnD BabIE
dusky drum
my brain small
dusky drum
~~hEARt REnD BabIE~~
lol
unkempt igloo
nice
stone escarp
nice
dusky drum
yea so you can get a lot, its just an almost impossible setup
stone escarp
136 isn't even considered god tier I think
dusky drum
no, not at all
buuuut
hear me out
dont use sword
use like any other weapon thats stronger
like rama or smth
or chiron
or eris
and or hestia
then itll get insane
you lose that 15% but you gain so much more base damage
( 100 + 35 + 20 + 40 + 45 + 15 + 50 + 100 ) * 3
stone escarp
dusky drum
but with lets say the base 150 i think from hestia
stone escarp
mwuaahahaha
dash striking with hestia is hard but it's worth it with the boons
the BOOOONS
dusky drum
832
stone escarp
let's toss in a heart rend for no good reason :)
stone escarp
35??
dusky drum
i never get heart rend
stone escarp
I'm gonna look this up I'm suspish
stone escarp
i thought it was just 35% to crits on weak but ight
I think you're thinking of clean kill
which sucks
dusky drum
yea maybe
stone escarp
Heart Rend.png
Heart Rend Your Critical effects deal even more damage to Weak foes.
Bonus Critical Damage vs. Weak: +150%
stone escarp
+350% on a crit then, which is *4.5
stone escarp
let's throw in boiling blood, a backstab, distant memory, clean kill, sweet surrender and family favorite
stone escarp
you know what for the sake of it yes
let's say aphrodite special and exposed dash
dusky drum
we already included boiling
stone escarp
okay okay
hyper sprint +100%, plume +35%, ignited ichors +20%, greater haste +40%, +45% from second wind, 15% from sword
deriving
dusky drum
( 100 + 35 + 20 + 40 + 45 + 15 + 50 + 100 + 30% + 50%) * 3
or
actually
instead of backstab
fiery precense mught be better
the 75% on full hp
dusky drum
ah ok
dusky drum
( 100 + 35 + 20 + 40 + 45 + 50 + 100 + 30% + 50% + 75%) * 4.5
what is epic sweet surrender?
oh and 40% from ps lemme add it
stone escarp
150 base(+100% hyper sprint, +35% plume, +20% ignited ichors, greater haste +40%, +45% from second wind, +50% backstab, +75% blinding flash, +20% sweet surrender, +50% boiling blood, +40% privileged status + 30% distant memory +)*4.5 heart rend crit
we're leaving out chaos
actually I think chaos backstabs are much more potent than chaos dash strikes
:')
I've gotten multiple chaos ambushes before teehee
dusky drum
150 (100 + 35 + 20 + 40 + 45 + 50 + 75 + 20 + 50 + 40(thats ps) + 30(distant mem))4.5
what about other shop items??
like the backstab one
stone escarp
:0
can't do nemesis crest though (undamaged foes)
but the stab is 50%
chaos can do 100% backstab ez
dusky drum
150 (100 + 35 + 20 + 40 + 45 + 50 + 75 + 20 + 50 + 40(thats ps) + 30(distant mem) + 100)4.5
its really long now 0_0
stone escarp
*4.5 
dusky drum
4k
stone escarp
FDSAIHDSAJFSDAFADSF
proven osprey
FDSAIHDSAJFSDAFADSF
I've been reading you for a while and you still scare me.
dusky drum
yea and im just here to have some fun with numbers
i mean we could do rama too
since the rama gimmick is like 60% extra
on anyone with it on
and i think rama has base damage of like 120 w/power shot
maybe less since dash
but idk
yea you can hit some crazy numbers in this game
oh wait
we would have to choose between distant mem and plume
and plume gives more
buuuut
hear me out
i think butterfly could give more
than either of those
since it caps at like 1.5 and not 1.2
so we could def break 5k
stone escarp
I've been reading you for a while and you still scare me.
why, with the keyspam?
stone escarp
i think butterfly could give more
dusky drum
lmao
proven osprey
Yeah the keyspam is definitely key
dusky drum
oh damn
yea then by like mid elysium its gonna beat it out
so lets just say 50% for the sake of time
proven osprey
it's just who I am
It's alright 
stone escarp
I've seen a victory screen with a 70% but let's say 50
what's our total
there's also 30% attack jerky, then patty jerky
dusky drum
150 (100 + 20 + 40 + 45 + 50 + 75 + 20 + 50 + 40(thats ps) + 50(butterfly) + 100 + 90(jerky))4.5
stone escarp
so add 90%
stone escarp
I've been listening to never gonna give you up this entire time btw lmao
dusky drum
please dear god
stone escarp
yep yep
dusky drum
and the 150?? for point blank
stone escarp
wait you said it's a 120 dash strike perfect shot right?
dusky drum
it might not be 120
stone escarp
okay so that's 125 base, all our bonuses, chaos backstab could also be chaos dash strike
which is the same
let's say there's a hammer in styx too >:)
perfect shot, twin shot, point blank shot
dusky drum
how much is perfect??
stone escarp
actually sniper does more than point blank
perfect shot is +150%, sniper is +200%, twin is straight up doubled
we're min/maxxing btw, this is straight up min/maxxing, hardcore
dusky drum
((125(150 + 200)) *2) + (100 + 20 + 40 + 45 + 50 + 75 + 20 + 50 + 40(thats ps) + 50(butterfly) + 100 + 90(jerky) + 60(shared suffering))4.5
i think
i could be wrong
stone escarp
oh dear gods let's break it down
stone escarp
150 base(+100% hyper sprint, +35% plume, +20% ignited ichors, greater haste +40%...
back to this
dusky drum
nice, we got 690 for the %buff not including hammers
so we got 987 for one arrow
not including hammers
1125 from arrows with only hammer
so like 2k normally
with all that
9504
and thats not including potential poms
stone escarp
125 base,(+150% perfect shot, +200% sniper shot, +100% artemis attack lol, +100% hyper sprint, +20% ignited ichors, +40% greater haste, +45% from second wind, +50% backstab, +75% blinding flash, +20% sweet surrender, +50% boiling blood, +40% privileged status + 50% pierced butterfly + 100% chaos dash, +90% jerky attack)*4.5 heart rend crit, *1.6 shared suffering, *2 twin shot
dusky drum
lemme do that real quick
stone escarp
it's only 100%
dusky drum
wanna do aphro main attack??
stone escarp
crits :c
dusky drum
pressure points 😎
dusky drum
lmao
ruby arch
After 200-odd runs, I finally got Special Inflicts Doom on the bow and this is gonna be FUN.
stone escarp
frick it let's go on the min max
dusky drum
125 base,(+150% perfect shot, +200% sniper shot, +100% hyper sprint, +20% ignited ichors, +40% greater haste, +45% from second wind, +50% backstab, +75% blinding flash, +20% sweet surrender, +50% boiling blood, +40% privileged status + 50% pierced butterfly + 100% chaos dash, +90% jerky attack + 150% heroic aphro atk)*4.5 heart rend crit, *1.6 shared suffering, *2 twin shot
we going without poms
wait i should probably take out the atremis attack lol bit
stone escarp
125(+150%, +200%, +200%, +100%, +20%, +40%, +45%, +50%, +75%, +20%, +50%, +40% + 50%, +100% +90%)*4.5*1.6*2
dusky drum
wheres that 2nd 200 from??
dusky drum
ah ok
stone escarp
how do you even multiply that
proven osprey
you're so cute
proven osprey
stone escarp
rip hades
stone escarp
gimme the exact number
stone escarp
dusky drum
23939.5
dusky drum
23940
i cut off a decimal since i didnt feel like it in the other number
but there you go
so yea
thats a lot of damage
stone escarp
let's ping a streamer and make them really mad because they absolutely hate super niche build suggestions LmAO
dusky drum
hehe you right
stone escarp
"yeah bro trust me it's super fun all you need is all epics and a few duos and lucky chaos and perfect hammers"/j
stone escarp
bahahaa
this was more fun than it's supposed to be
then again I am a dnd player and I do this kind of stuff a lot
dusky drum
saaaame tho
stone escarp
you are? :>
dusky drum
mhm, i normally dm tho so i cant play my arcane archer hexblade ;w;
old glacier
so I might be the worst Hades player that has 50+ hours played. 73 attempts and I still haven't got passed Dad. Actually been hardstuck on the Hades bossfight for what feels like an eternity. What types of builds make that fight easier? Typically what dunks me is getting wombo combo'd for like 100 damage.
stone escarp
still listening to this
stone escarp
mhm, i normally dm tho so i cant play my arcane archer hexblade ;w;
I'll be your DM and give you straight up Rama
dusky drum
lol bet
dusky drum
so I might be the worst Hades player that has 50+ hours played. 73 attempts and ...
and umm what wep and aspect
stone escarp
so I might be the worst Hades player that has 50+ hours played. 73 attempts and ...
okay so basically
athena dash
greatest reflex
hyper sprint
unkillable
dusky drum
^^^ truueee
stone escarp
tbh Hyper sprint is an mvp in the hades fight and it's super underappreciated
dusky drum
and like aphro attack is always good
dusky drum
tbh Hyper sprint is an mvp in the hades fight and it's super underappreciated
yeaaa, i never get it but i love it
stone escarp
@old glacier don't be like me, I refused to use any weapon other than sword
like, I cleared first run, then heat 1-20, then 32 heat all with sword before even TRYING the other weapons
it took over a hundred hours and made the game feel not fun
dusky drum
i still respect that dedication tho
dusky drum
nice
stone escarp
I'll be your DM and give you straight up Rama
how would you feel about giving one of your players Rama
stone escarp
I'm pretty sure Rama is a dex save in a line and not an attack roll
dusky drum
im assuming it would be a +3 legendary and as a bonus action you can prock shared suffering to everyon in a 15 feet radius
stone escarp
im assuming it would be a +3 legendary and as a bonus action you can prock share...
yep
stone escarp
and have the same damage as a longbow
more
dusky drum
o-oh
stone escarp
also because of the celestial theme it'd have a healing aura ofc, and shared suffering can also share healing
stone escarp
and how would we calc shared suffering in dnd
just half probably
stone escarp
because dnd does half rounded down actually, dnd always rounds down
stone escarp
sure :> up it is
stone escarp
okay so basically do this
1: get all your enemies
2: shared suffering
3: fireball
spellcasters carry once again
dusky drum
0_0
stone escarp
that's why I wanted 4d8
stone escarp
the average for a 20 foot radius is I think 3-5 enemies
actually let me bring up my spell analysis sheet lmao
old glacier
and umm what wep and aspect
sword, spear, gloves, longbow probably in that order but I like all the weapons. Tend to do best with high damage builds since avoiding damage tends to be where I am weakest so ideally I burst everything down before the room gets saturated with bad evil things.
dusky drum
ummm for sword and fist, any fast attack thing works
like dire misfortune or zeus
spear works with anything tbh
and bow
you wanna go for ps and aphro attack
with a status special
and or burst special
dusky drum
okay so basically
athena dash
greatest reflex
hyper sprint
unkillable
but this is general good
ruby arch
so I might be the worst Hades player that has 50+ hours played. 73 attempts and ...
If it helps:
Give in and turn on God Mode. Once you're at the point where you win consistently, start a new save. You'll be surprised at how much faster you progress.
old glacier
I have Nemesis for sword, Hades and Achilles for spear, Zeus for shield, Chiron for bow, Talos for gloves, Eris for rail. Hindsight should have focused on just a couple aspects but didn't realize blood would be tough to get after the first bit.
old glacier
If it helps:
Give in and turn on God Mode. Once you're at the point where you wi...
I've given in to asking for help and reading guides. If I still am stuck after that then you are right I'll need to swallow my pride.
dusky drum
I have Nemesis for sword, Hades and Achilles for spear, Zeus for shield, Chiron ...
chiron is epic, what lvl is it??
old glacier
1 😦 consequence of me spreading all my blood around
cloud vault
Zeus and Achilles are okay on 1.not ideal but okay. Talos too.
quiet pendant
Aspect of Zeus on the shield is my main
old glacier
I've also been just playing whatever weapon has the bonus darkness. I need to focus on one now until I get good enough with it to reliably beat Hades probably. Hades' spear is my only level 2 weapon, and only because I accidentally clicked upgrade when I meant to equip it.
quiet pendant
for sword and fist the hidden aspects are inhumanly good
tho aspect of talos is really good too
old glacier
I think I will focus on Talos. I think my mirror is in good shape so I suppose the last thing then is what should I be doing for trinkets? Typically I've been picking the gods I want each level then swapping in something defensive when I reach Styx
I do really like Lambent Plume but being committed to it for the whole run does seem like a big sacrifice
hearty mulch
shield hidden aspect is literally the best aspect for it
tough ridge
update you guys, i finished with Aspect of Chaos on 1 Heat, im so proud of myself lol
i think i unlocked the Beowulf shield
spiral badge
I do really like Lambent Plume but being committed to it for the whole run does ...
Plume isnt close to worth it over a whole run until you’re much, muuuuch deeper in the game
Especially on talos
Want a talos build? Here ya go. Find zeus for attack and call, aphrodite for cast (maybe special too), and pray for their duo. Put Priv. Status on, and find yourself jolted from zeus, among other goodies.
Throw a good dash on there like athena or aphrodite again and badda bing badda boom, that’s My First Talos build
If you’re this deep into your hour log and you can’t clear the final boss, you’re getting hit too much. Full stop. Tough love but that is 100% your problem
Focus less on burning things down and more on your own survival. Bossfights in this game, and roguelikes in general, are DPS fights that you cannot win. The boss can always, always kill you much quicker than you can kill them. So you need to slow yourself down, and get to the end of the fight if you ever hope to win it
For a good general training exercise, fight with both hands tied behind your back for the first 1-2 minutes of the fight. Don’t throw a single punch and focus solely on using your dodge and mobility to stay alive. Not only will this teach you good habits, not trying to punch back will let you focus much more clearly on the boss’ patterns and what he’s doing at any given moment, which is what you really need to be learning
If you’re making it to hades consistently, you have it within you to beat him. Slow your heart rate down, and learn to stay alive before you start throwing punches back
thorny plume
Should I finish upgrading chaos shield or max out guan yu
I’ve got pretty much all the blood I want in all the aspects I want but i wanna max everything out
spiral badge
Whichever you like. Both are good contenders. Chaos is probably a little easier to operate at first
spiral badge
Want a talos build? Here ya go. Find zeus for attack and call, aphrodite for cas...
By the way, do this with Aphrodite first. Having an epic aphro cast on Talos is basically an auto-win through tartarus and most of asphodel. Force a zeus boon in asphodel if he doesn’t show up naturally for your attack slot, keep it open until then
arctic sand
For a good general training exercise, fight with both hands tied behind your bac...
I love this suggestion I find that if you get a good heavy damage dash boon and are not worried about time you can make it though most of Tartarus without Attack, Special, or Cast. I would recommend Poseidon or Athena for this exercise. Poseidon will knock ppl back giving you room and time to think. Athena will help you turn enemy projectiles to your advantage.
old glacier
If you’re this deep into your hour log and you can’t clear the final boss, you’r...
yup this is very true. I think i focus more on executing my combo than dodging damage. I also hope just focusing on one build will help get me a lot better with both dodging damage but also more efficiently dealing damage.
keen sage
I like poseidon special on talos, as contradictory as it seems
arctic sand
I like poseidon special on talos, as contradictory as it seems
I think it works great for the Special as well
keen sage
I said special?
arctic sand
you did yes
keen sage
For a good general training exercise, fight with both hands tied behind your bac...
this is great advice btw, just focusing on defense gives you the opportunity to learn the enemy's patterns and get used to them much more quickly
keen sage
you did yes
sorry, I think I misread
arctic sand
sorry, I think I misread
All good!
keen sage
but yeah, Talos special is essentially a ranged attack, and with Poseidon it draws them in then pushes them right back away. It lets you engage them on your terms
arctic sand
but yeah, Talos special is essentially a ranged attack, and with Poseidon it dra...
Agreed also I feel like I slept on the wall slam, it can do CRAY damage. That paired with Zeus attack and then the Duo between the two is AMAZING.
keen sage
with the right boons, slamming dudes around with poseidon gets hilarious
yeah, and if you get sea storm (I think that's the name) it's fantastic
I haven't used Aphrodite much but I probably should. Never realized she gives the biggest raw damage increase. I think it's mostly because I don't see Weak as being as valuable as other curses
although I use Ares even less. I like Doom on VERY few things
it's good on rama bow special, but only because that's one of the few attacks where you don't stack it a bunch or cause high damage
maybe I should reconsider but I feel like Doom is just generally underwhelming like that. Maybe if the boon that made it stackable were actually worthwhile instead of just +10 damage each hit
spiral badge
ares is a weird god
arctic sand
although I use Ares even less. I like Doom on VERY few things
I actually LOVE doom but you do need to get it earlier IMO. The Damage on it can get to 200 fairly quickly.
spiral badge
i feel like he undergoes this relationship with the player
where new players love him because big numbers go brrrrrr
arctic sand
LOL so true
keen sage
I actually LOVE doom but you do need to get it earlier IMO. The Damage on it can...
Is there any way to make it significantly better aside from leveling up the boon itself, as well as the one that makes it hit later?
spiral badge
and intermediate players then think a little less of him because there are so many other gods and combos
vague hearth
Ares builds hurt me because he is so stingy with dire misfortune
keen sage
dire misfortune is +10 damage per hit, which doesn't seem great
spiral badge
but at the end of the chain advanced players wrap right back around to loving him because b i g d a m a g e g o b r r r r r r r
vague hearth
Yeah
spiral badge
dire misfortune is +10 damage per hit, which doesn't seem great
Dire misfortune is an entire zeus attack boon's worth of damage on every hit with no cooldown. think of it through that lens
arctic sand
Is there any way to make it significantly better aside from leveling up the boon...
Yes there is an additional boon that increases its by a % but delays is .5 well worth it IMO
vague hearth
I had an amazing run with the chiron doom repeater
keen sage
Zeus's attack boon does more damage (except for normal rarity where it's equal)
spiral badge
chiron doom special is an amazing combo
spiral badge
Zeus's attack boon does more damage (except for normal rarity where it's equal)
Epic dire does 14 base
keen sage
chiron anything special is an amazing combo
vague hearth
And then I did demeter the aphro chiron cannon and got my first EM4 clear
spiral badge
that's on par with epic zeus attack out of the gate
vague hearth
Yeah but I've done like
keen sage
I guess you are combining it with the base doom damage so it's not awful
spiral badge
i poo-poo'd dire until i thought about that
keen sage
the other advantage is that the normal spread bow special is probably really good with doom
vague hearth
It was pain.
spiral badge
yup
keen sage
so that makes you a bit versatile
vague hearth
The normal special is great for dealing with witches and numbskulls
spiral badge
but his kit actually has outrageous damage output potential all around
he just offers no safety with it in return
arctic sand
but his kit actually has outrageous damage output potential all around
Preach!
vague hearth
And epic level two special doom can get rid of hero souls with one hit
keen sage
hrm
spiral badge
bro fists and blade dash name a better duo
keen sage
with chiron bow, and ares special, what would be a good attack boon then?
spiral badge
Aphro doesn't hurt
vague hearth
I like aphro
spiral badge
but avoid the duo
keen sage
that makes sense
spiral badge
at that point