h1-builds-and-combat

[spiral badge]

Or will I eventually get locked into a health/Pom/money loop

If I get too many too quickly for instance

Or if it is truly all in the hands of rngesus

[forest marsh]

There's some limits for which type of room rewards (laurel colour) can spawn, so it's not entirely random

[spiral badge]

What are those limits? Is there any documentation anywhere on hidden little detail mechanics like this?

Cause I like FA for some builds where you can’t go wrong with more of the god (arty, Zeus) and that’d be good information

So I don’t spend rolls for boons I can’t get

[forest marsh]

I don't have the information handy, but the game scripts are all plain text if you feel like digging. Someone probably has the information, though.

It occurs to me now that I misread, though, and you're just meaning rolling when a god is offered to try to make it a certain god. There is some scripting there too but I know less about it. If you're really interested, the modding server can probably answer your questions in detail

[spiral badge]

Ooooooh, is that a separate server?

Yeah, I’m trying to figure out say this scenario: I use FA to roll 4 arty boons in Tartarus. Is there a soft cap somewhere saying I’m not going to see any more god boons for the rest of Tartarus now? Or something approaching what I’ve described?

I’ll ask them. Where is the modding discord?

[forest marsh]

There's a pin in #self-promotion

[coral cave]

i feel like em3 is wayy too hard with fists

and middle management is suprisingly easy

[spiral badge]

Yeah if you don’t care about time MM is one of those I don’t take off

[fading garden]

I struggle with EM3. It's just one of those things that really takes practice

MM is?

[spiral badge]

Middle management

[fading garden]

Oh, middle management. Got it

Yeah, haven't turned that on yet

[spiral badge]

I feel like the fists taper out more than most late run for damage

[regal garden]

i think the hardest thing with mm for me

[spiral badge]

It makes me sad

[regal garden]

is the barge of death

[spiral badge]

Yeah barge is interesting

[regal garden]

that big bulky shield one is so so annoying

[fading garden]

It is also faster

[regal garden]

and rhe butterfly ball warping annoys me to no end

[fading garden]

Is that the extra effect on butterfly ball?

[coral cave]

and FO is also quite easy

[regal garden]

oh yeah also the gorgon and slammer are much harder

[spiral badge]

I honestly like the MM barge because its a good DPS check for me. Like, if I can’t burn down the crystal before he becomes a problem I need to think about my build

[regal garden]

due to the shockwave

[coral cave]

if youre quick of course

[regal garden]

fo is not easy

[fading garden]

Once you get used to Forced overtime it is

[spiral badge]

Oooooooof I haaaate FO

Give me anything but that

[coral cave]

FO becomes suprisingly easy once you get used to it

[spiral badge]

Or I need Demeter as a safety blanket

[fading garden]

I've aslo been running chill builds non-stop today so that helps with FO immensely

[spiral badge]

I could see doing FO with maybe Rama Demeter

[fading garden]

FO 1 really isn't too bad honestly.

[spiral badge]

But I will literally crank everything else to max before I touch FO, I know I can get used to it but I despise how much extra I get hit

[sonic crypt]

i find MM kinda spooky especially in asphodel

[fading garden]

It will kick ya in the teeth a few times, but ya really learn to adjust to it

[rare kindle]

I only find MM a problem with the dire skullcrusher

Everything else is easy enough but avoiding that shockwave can be hard

[forest marsh]

MM has the benefit of sometimes being free because you just don't meet any minibosses

[sonic crypt]

I don't like barge either when it's a giant void stone - so I'm always spooked by MM

[fading garden]

that's one heck of a gamble though

[rare kindle]

I actually prefer barge with MM because Meg is so good at knocking away a large chunk of the armor

I think it's actually faster than regular barge

[sonic crypt]

doesn't feel it to me

[forest marsh]

TD2, MM, and EM3 are basically my "always on" pacts

[sonic crypt]

TD2

I sit on 1, should probably stop being weak

[forest marsh]

I can do TD3 but I don't usually take it unless I'm pushing the heat up

[rare kindle]

I feel like I dawdle way less with TD1 on

I can probably do TD2 most of the time

[sonic crypt]

yeah I really enjoyed the game more when I started using td1

[rare kindle]

And survival rooms are annoying

[sonic crypt]

survival rooms were the biggest meme when I was running shield

I'd literally afk in a corner with block

[coral cave]

the difficulty spike between normal heroes fight and EM3 is so immense

[spiral badge]

Yeah Heroes EM3 is a really big spike imo

Also, why is the server deleting my message when I try to list out a couple boons in a row?

[rare kindle]

I struggled with EM3 and I still do, which is why I use acorn, but I think it's a relatively easy 3 heat

Some runs I like lost all DDs to them but I've been better lately about not losing that much health to them

[spiral badge]

I’m trying to rep Fated Authority with this ridiculous Artemis boon stack I’ve gotten in tartarus alone with it but the message keeps toasting itself

If I have to do EM3 heroes I really try to switch my mindset up around the fight to a very defensive one

Aesterius especially you have to respect and play hit and run. Once Theseus is alone you can stay on his tail fairly easily. Big bull man make big hurty and not die though

[forest marsh]

I don't see anything deleted, were you just sending messages too fast?

[spiral badge]

It was odd

It looked like It tried to transform it into a table of some kind for a second

Then it disappeared without a trace

[coral cave]

i just killed the normal heroes in 20 seconds

EM3 is wayyy too hard

[forest marsh]

Weird... sounds like something with Discord itself

[spiral badge]

Happened twice

[sonic crypt]

reasons why I always do em2

[spiral badge]

Hang on let me try, I’m just going to type a bunch of Artemis boons with commas

[coral cave]

feels like their health is doubled too

[sonic crypt]

I assume it is? cause I know furies have higher health?

[coral cave]

if their health wasnt boosted id probably have a much easier time

[spiral badge]

Deadly strike, hunter dash, support fire, hunters mark,

Hmmmm weird

Maybe it just hiccuped

Nope not that way either

Hot take: I like Erebus gates because even if you fail from what I can see you’re guaranteed an increased rarity floor after that whether you pass or fail

[forest marsh]

You can get blue laurel exits on Erebus

[spiral badge]

But they are all skull-iconed yes? Are those rooms not increased rewards too if they have skulls?

[forest marsh]

Yes, but not all of them will be Elite rooms

I'm not even certain that Elite rooms are guaranteed among the three offered

[spiral badge]

Hmmmm is there a way to discern an “elite” room from one that isn’t? I thought the skull was that indicator but if I’m reading you right it having it isn’t a true guarantee of increased room reward?

[forest marsh]

The skull icon is the indicator for Elite

Skull with a red chevron is a miniboss

[spiral badge]

Oh ok, maybe my luck has just been good but I think Ive only ever seen skull icons when leaving an Erebus room

[forest marsh]

I just mean that not all of the exits will be Elite

[spiral badge]

Never a regular rarity one that I can remember

Maybe I haven’t done enough though

[forest marsh]

RNG gods bless you

[spiral badge]

Apparently

Has to have a significantly increased chance, at least

[regal garden]

i think the main use for erebus gates so far has been

for me at least

getting 50 health centaur hearts in tartarus

at least at the heat im at

haven't got high enough for any gates past that

[spiral badge]

I love Erebus for fated authority again

Esp in tartarus

Ez clap elite god boon

If you have the right aspect for it

I keep 10 heat on for my cruising/farming runs specifically for access to Erebus through asphodel and it’s not too shabby

For those wondering what Rama + arty dash AND attack + twin shot + point blank shot sounds like, it’s screams

It sounds like screams.

[stray apex]

What cast works best with Aspect of Beowulf? If anyone can tell me pls @ me.

[sonic crypt]

dio trippy shot into zeus duo for scintillating fog @stray apex

[stray apex]

Thanks mate

[dapper wadi]

My good shades, how the hell do you kill (a) butterfly balls (b) the Heroes (c) really everything in Elysium

[sonic crypt]

answer: with great difficulty

Elysium took me more time to get through (and still is a bigger wall) than styx/final fight

[dapper wadi]

yeah I've beaten Elysium once (with shield with Charged Shot) and Styx honestly felt eZ

tho I died in final boss

[spiral badge]

Butterfly balls: focus them the hell down. In the boss room with the large one it will keep spawning in new elite seed baddies until you kill the butterfly ball so you need to focus it down

E: regular butterfly balls are kind of a secondary target though. You need to attack through and dash around the butterflies they spew out, but kill them when you get to them rather than priority #1 like in the mini boss fight

Heroes: learn the bull’s attacks well and focus him down at all costs first. Will make your life a lot easier. Watch out for the glowing red crosshair on you indicating Theseus is about to throw his spear at you. Save your largest spike of damage for right after Theseus goes enraged and calls on the gods. While he is standing there invoking them, from the moment his overshield disappears to the moment he raises his own shield again he is completely defenseless. Use this time to mash his face in with the largest burst of damage you have

Elysium: learn how to deal with flame wheels, learn how to deal with shield mobs, get some armor shredding in your build to make life easier

More Elysium: learn when discretion is the better part of valor when dealing with large chariots. They can easily outrun you over open ground if you don’t have lots of dashes, so don’t be afraid of the cowardly retreat away to safety if one starts giving chase

[dapper wadi]

thanks. yeah I feel like I'm feckless at evading any of the minotaur's attacks

and I'm decent at dealing with individual exalteds but get shredded when there are a lot

[spiral badge]

Asterius hurts but is predictable. Study him closely and focus him down first always

For butterfly balls stick and weave some to kill them

Don’t just stand there and face tank and try to DPS race them. Kite the butterflies around the ball as you attack. Stay moving when dealing with butterfly balls, staying in one place lets the butterflies eat you alive

[echo radish]

Is running dio boons on hidden shield better for the duos or just running crush shot cause crush shot

Same question with hera

[spiral badge]

Dio is S tier for Hera and beo

[rare kindle]

I like dio's cast on hidden shield

[spiral badge]

Duo boons go brrrrr

[echo radish]

I've definitely seen more than one high heat players say that crush shot is better

[spiral badge]

Ice wine and scintillating feast

[echo radish]

Hence the question

[misty turret]

if you have battie, use battie the moment the fight starts for king + bull (IF you don't have DC that is)

easy 2500 on both

[spiral badge]

Don’t get me wrong, aphro is fantastic

Love me some aphro

[echo radish]

Yea I'm asking which of the two is better

[spiral badge]

I’d have a real hard time picking. Probably dio for versatility of duos with a gun to my head

[misty turret]

crush shot lodges so you can get boiling blood where dio has more synergy i think

on their own crush shot

[spiral badge]

Also wait, isn’t dio the highest cast damage?

[rare kindle]

Uh, no casts lodge with beo shield

[misty turret]

oh wait talking beo shield

i jumped in middle of convo

forgive me

[spiral badge]

Wouldn’t it be optimal for beo and hera then?

[misty turret]

then without lodging its more spammable than festive fog is

[echo radish]

Pretty sure crush shot is a shotgun

[misty turret]

so it might pull ahead damage-wise

[rare kindle]

I'm not sure how you get crush shot to work

since I normally get casts for range but that cast requires melee range

[echo radish]

And with shield you can point blank them

[spiral badge]

I mean crush shot owns

I just think it’s 10 less base damage than dio iirc if we want to get down to brass tacks for beo builds

Where everything is an AOE explosion anyways

I love crush shot, I just don’t reach for it before dio on beo/hera

[echo radish]

Is the damage on crush shot the total or just one projectile

[spiral badge]

90 per shot base iirc

[sonic crypt]

I just don't see why you'd go crush shot as I can't really think of any synergy with other gods except smouldering air for faster calls

[spiral badge]

Against 100 for dio

[sonic crypt]

whereas dio has feast & wine duos

[echo radish]

Yea but is the 90 divided among the projectiles

Or is every projectile 90

[spiral badge]

Crush shot is just good in a vacuum for me

90 per shotgun shell

[echo radish]

That's insane then

Its 5 shots right?

[spiral badge]

1 shot of crush shot is one shotgun blast dealing 90 damage

[echo radish]

Oh nevermind I misunderstood then

[spiral badge]

Negative ghost rider. 3 blood stones, 3 shells

[echo radish]

I guess it must be the lodging then?

[sonic crypt]

which is fine, but where do you go from there build wise?

[spiral badge]

It does lodge, but not on beo I don’t think

[echo radish]

You don't go anywhere

It's good and that's it

You keep loading it and shooting it

Not looking for duos

[spiral badge]

I mean wherever you please. 90 base damage for common value is just good in a vacuum

And it applies a curse for PS

[echo radish]

Does bull rush also apply status

Well dragon rush

[spiral badge]

And it has a tier 2 that gives it an extended choke and +100% on the first shot

Should???

Can’t think of why it wouldn’t

[echo radish]

Since you said it doesn't lodge on shield wouldn't all shots get 100%?

[sonic crypt]

yeah all of this says to me that dio's is better as you have more late-game idea rather than "start this and see" lol

[spiral badge]

No I don’t think so

Dio is better for beo and Hera absolutely

[echo radish]

Is it?

If it doesn't lodge that makes crush objectively better

[spiral badge]

Aphro has utility outside of those because dio has a lot of windup

[echo radish]

Cause you can instant reload

[spiral badge]

I’m pretty sure none of them lodge when we’re dealing with beo/hera

[echo radish]

Yea so doesn't that make aphro better than dio on hera and beo

[spiral badge]

Because otherwise you have to solve the paradox of deciding which one of the 5 enemies that just got hit to lodge the cast stone into

[echo radish]

Since dio takes while before you can retrieve the stones

[spiral badge]

Ehhhhhhh I feel dio makes up for that

Festive fog is good as hell my bro

[echo radish]

I mean I've definitely tried dio on the shield

[spiral badge]

Stunlocks enemies in its AOE and duos for dayssss

[sonic crypt]

besides, it's not like you're spamming all 3 casts into shield for dio

you use 1 cast for 1 dragonrush

[spiral badge]

Yeah that too

[echo radish]

Huh

I always put all 3 stones in cause it ohoks

[spiral badge]

You’re over killing a lot of the time broheim, here to tell you

Dio is strong stuff

[echo radish]

Oh well

[sonic crypt]

strong drank

[echo radish]

Anyway does crush shot back stab from the shield and bow?

[spiral badge]

But dio + Beo + scintillating feast is a build and a half all on its own for damage output

[echo radish]

Cause you know im charging from front

[spiral badge]

Not out of the box but it can

[echo radish]

So I assume it'd have to travel backwards?

[spiral badge]

I believe aphro/Athena have a duo that makes casts start invoking backstab damage

[echo radish]

Another big question I have is do all 3 casts hit simultaneously

[spiral badge]

If you load them simultaneously

[echo radish]

Oh that sucks

[spiral badge]

It should be simultaneous or damn near

[echo radish]

It won't activate ps then

[spiral badge]

Well, yes it would

As long as those 3 blasts are the second half of the curse puzzle

[slim lynx]

does concentrated knuckle keep stacking if you chain attacks by dashing?

[echo radish]

They are

It will activate but won't proc on the shots themselves if they're simultaneously hitting

[spiral badge]

No, I think you should get it

[echo radish]

If they hit one by one then 2 stones will take ps bonus

[spiral badge]

It’s not truly simultaneous I don’t think

Someone can correct me on that

[echo radish]

Huh I think I know my next run

[spiral badge]

so, to lay it out, aphro is 90% the damage of dio, but applies a curse instantly and theoretically picks up quicker

Dio is 100% of dio, but has some nice AOE effects going for him and great duos with festive fog down the line

The choice is really yours

[echo radish]

Aphro cast Athena attack Artemis aid ares special

Dio dash or Athena dash

[sonic crypt]

I don't remember the last time I hit the special button on beowulf lol

[wide light]

Athena

[spiral badge]

I love beo special

I don’t understand how you’re supposed to use the regular attack

[echo radish]

The ares special is there for merciful end

[wide light]

Divine dash best dash

[spiral badge]

It’s so clunky

[echo radish]

Just incase

[spiral badge]

Can’t screw that up @echo radish

[echo radish]

Actually no that doesn't make sense

Since I have to special for me which is clunky

Need a different special

Does beo special bounce?

[spiral badge]

Mmhmmmm

[wide light]

Divine dash still best dash

[spiral badge]

I think doom might actually be your best bet for beo special

[echo radish]

Wait

[spiral badge]

As slow as it is

[echo radish]

Can I dash strike a bullrush

[spiral badge]

Then you get impending doom too

And increase your PS window

[echo radish]

I'm trying to increase crit chance

[spiral badge]

Then why are you playing with Beowulf lol

[daring turtle]

would be funny if there were multi-god boons, one of which is you have 6 different gods, is a dash called Rainbow Dash xD

[echo radish]

Cause crit casts and dragon rush

[wide light]

Artemis + Athena + Ares runs are so fun.

[echo radish]

And athena+ arty duo

[spiral badge]

@daring turtle if they took a page from the Gungeon and made a rainbow mode where your boons cycle every room that’d be wild

[echo radish]

Also heart rend and parting shot

[spiral badge]

You can indeed dash strike into bullrush btw

[sonic crypt]

beo is what's used for high heats (I think), it's also the fastest shield aspect in speedruns ;kekw

[spiral badge]

Just have to hold it

Oh I get that, but for crit chance?

I play lots of things when I want big critzzz, just not beo

Beo is nice though. Just play around with it

[echo radish]

Well the thing is you can virtual boost your crit chance fairly high using dio arty and Athena

And like it doesn't have to be crit build to crit

[spiral badge]

I’ll buy it for a dollar if you’re selling it. You can build lots of powerful stuff around beo

[echo radish]

A build that works with a passive chance to crit is just as good

Like what

[spiral badge]

Hmmmmmm

[echo radish]

Like i think aphro cast and Athena attack are what I've confirmed

[spiral badge]

I mean there’s what’s been discussed, anything involving dio on cast can get dummy quick

Zeus or ares can be interesting for the special

[echo radish]

I was thinking of Zeus special for dio aid with smoldering air

[spiral badge]

Something that can deal out chunky damage

yup yup that’s a great plan

Charged flight can be very interesting for beo too

[echo radish]

See that's what brought me to Artemis dash being a no brainer in this build

[spiral badge]

Ordinarily a hammer that doesn’t really see use, beo’s beeg throw really helps the 200% base damage do something

[echo radish]

Dio + aphro +arty is 12.5% crit chance and arty+Athena is 20%

[spiral badge]

I’m not here to tell you it won’t work, if that’s what you’re intent on building I’m sure it’ll blow stuff up. No reason it can’t 👍🏻

[echo radish]

5 gods lowkey clunky but none of the duos in the build are required to make the build work cause aphro cast just carries anyway

[spiral badge]

aphro cast will carry indeed with beo

[echo radish]

I mean do you have a better God for the dash

[spiral badge]

Not really, I would only be selecting aphro or dio for curse application at that point

If you do end up getting dio cast at some point Demeter can be nice on dash to open up ice wine

[echo radish]

Does the dash strike damage add onto the cast damage along with the rush damage?

[dry ember]

I don't thihk so

[spiral badge]

No, they are separate events

[echo radish]

Huh that would be p insane huh

[spiral badge]

Dash strike ->hold button -> bullrush charges -> bullrush releases

[echo radish]

I'm just not really sold on dio for this build tbh

Like Zeus or Athena aid seems better

With smoldering air

Welp let's see what I get

[coarse moss]

just put ares on your attack. bullrushes inflict doom + weak. 100% priviledge uptime. 100 rush dmg, 100+ doom damage, 300+ cast dmg, before counting PS

[echo radish]

That locks me out of deadly reversal though

[sonic crypt]

why would you be after DR?

[coarse moss]

hm yeah. easier to set up though

[sonic crypt]

beowulf isn't about critting

[spiral badge]

Don’t kinkshame him

[echo radish]

Lmao

[sonic crypt]

I aint shaming, just confused by the build

[echo radish]

The way I see it if I'm unloading 4 attacks on a dude simultaneously then having atleast one of them crit sounds pretty good to me

[sonic crypt]

[dry ember]

Rebind cast to LB

[echo radish]

I use kbm

Get rekt fox

[dry ember]

Dang, got me.

Imagine using mkb

[echo radish]

Imagine not

[forest marsh]

@spiral badge let's keep our comments clean, please

[echo radish]

Lol what hermes wants me to beat Charon not once but twice in a row?

Is this guy serious

[dry ember]

Friendly contest

[sonic crypt]

afterall charon is now even friendlier with you since you're someone who stood up to him

[dry ember]

dude just wants a friend

[echo radish]

Sure he's happy

But what about me

[dry ember]

Charon is even more of a tsundere than Thanatos

[misty turret]

is the game plan with hestia just reload -> attack -> reload

[spiral badge]

P. Much

Sort of the name of the game there

Delta chamber is weird but nice there

You can fire as normal and just spam reload for power shots on demand

[coarse moss]

you missed the part where you can hit with special and tidal dash twice during the reload 😄

[echo radish]

Just lost 2 defiances to lava

Time to shame concede

[spiral badge]

[dry ember]

Just give up and pretend it didn't happen.

[misty turret]

https://i.imgur.com/bT3KEeb.jpg beat charon in tartarus with hestia lmao

[dry ember]

imagine if acorn works against charon

[echo radish]

Pretend what didnt happen

[dry ember]

exactly

[echo radish]

Tfw you really want divine strike but Athena keeps offering dash

[dry ember]

What do you need Divine Strike for?

[echo radish]

Reversal

I understand why they tied ME to attack or special but why did they do the same to reversal

[cunning urchin]

m sorry to say this goes on your permanent record. Pretend all you like.

[dry ember]

Don't be afraid of idle threat. March on soldier.

[fading garden]

The more I play, the more I realize ravenous will is a disgustingly good boon

[echo radish]

It's global damage isn't it

[misty turret]

i used anvil and game gave me rocket clusters

[fading garden]

Yea

[misty turret]

lmao

[fading garden]

Ravenous will is super dumb, in the best possible way

Honestly, Demeter in general is just a really solid god. Even if you don't try to capitalize off her, she is great support.

One core chill boon really makes a big difference

[echo radish]

Same with sweet surrender

[turbid needle]

Is rush kick good for Demeter aspect?

It says base 40 hits twice

Does the stack special hit 10 times?

[echo radish]

7 times

[turbid needle]

So is it good or should I take long knuckle instead?

[fading garden]

It is good

[turbid needle]

Rush kick then?

[echo radish]

It's good but the explosive upper is better

[turbid needle]

Explosive upper is good?

I skipped it last time

Oops

[echo radish]

Yes explosive increases each upper by 100%

So that's 12 cutters basically

[dry ember]

Personally I value Breaching Cross - Long Knuckle - Explosive Knuckle - Kinetic Strike in that order

I think it's just AOE

It doesn't increase your single target damage.

[coarse moss]

apparently zag will fly forward to kick but the demeter hits will happen where he took off

[echo radish]

It says dash upper is 100% damage in area @dry ember

[dry ember]

Yeah, like it increases your Dash Upper AOE, but not the damage to the target.

It's still really good though.

[gusty rapids]

no it does more damage

its +100%

[dry ember]

You sure?

[echo radish]

But if my upper hits 6 times won't it proc 6 times

[gusty rapids]

explosive upper is basically the single best hammer for demeter fists

breaching and long knuckle are really good too but not as good as explosvie for dem

[echo radish]

Yea I've made builds around it, fox out here making me feel all Truman

[turbid needle]

I thought explosive was when you land. Seemed awkward

[echo radish]

No that's a different one

That is quake cutter

[turbid needle]

I feel schooled

[dry ember]

Ok I just tested Explosive Upper and it does x2 your Dash Upper damage. I was wrong.

[coral cave]

Explosive upper + demeter fists is amazing

[echo radish]

Do it with arty special

Aphro attack or arty attack on zag bow?

[woven delta]

Depends on who's on your special

[cloud vault]

Arty attack, aphro special

The most consistent way for Zag bow to do more damage is to have more crit chance

And then aphro special for heart Rend to boost that damage

[echo radish]

Oof I got triple shot and went for aphro attack

Got Athena early so I figured I could Athena special

[slim lynx]

zeus cast is good with poseidon aspect right?

[errant linden]

I had a run where I got both deflect attack and deflect dash for Athena.

It was very pleasing, to say the least.

[cloud vault]

Aphro attack on Zag bow is definitely good too

[echo radish]

Just want to chain shot

[turbid needle]

The chaos aspect is good with Athena attack ares special, or the other way around?

[echo radish]

The former

But for ME you have to do the latter

Piercing volley, point blank or sniper shot

I have triple btw

I'm thinking point blank cause I'm trying to shotgun people anyway

[mighty ermine]

definitely point blank, yes

even if you didn't have triple shot

[echo radish]

I gotta say I really underestimated zag bow

After playing Rama all this time, it felt so free and light

Wow I died from a banana peel with 3 death defiances

[vale tapir]

quick question, whats like a fast clear time?

[coral cave]

Sub-15 is generally considered pretty quick

[vale tapir]

bah humbug, my fastest is at 20 minutes and a second x)

[coral cave]

Though if you're talking speedrun times you're looking at 6-7 minutes

[vale tapir]

holy crap O_o

thats crazy

[coral cave]

Yeah idk how they get that fast

[vale tapir]

fun to know that thats possible though

[coral cave]

Fastest I've gotten is 10.57

WR is 5.57 I think

[vale tapir]

thats so insane

may I ask which weapon you got 10.57 with?

[coral cave]

Fists

[vale tapir]

eyyy

my record is with those too

crazy dps potential on those

[coral cave]

They fast af

[vale tapir]

luckily button mashing isn't a bannable offense

[coral cave]

If it was I'd be banned long ago

[fading garden]

Do you do lightning attack?

[forest marsh]

The fun thing with Hades is that every weapon can get sub-10 (or lower) with practice and good RNG

[fading garden]

But that means you have to play good 😭

[vale tapir]

man, some day I'll get sub 10

and no, I had Ares attack with athena dash and their duo

highest dps I've had yet

[fading garden]

Ares attack? Really!? That is surprising

Oh, Merciful End. Duh

[vale tapir]

[sonic crypt]

sub 10 is impossible and you can't tell me otherwise

||yes i'm being stubborn cause i'm bad ssh||

[coral cave]

Sub 10 is definitely possible

Just need to pray to RNGesus

[turbid needle]

I'm more like 30 min

[cloud vault]

You can do 10 minutes by just grabbing every mid shop and playing quickly with a solid build

[drowsy hornet]

Because that skips the minibosses?

[cloud vault]

Fountains, chaos and friend rooms as well as extremely good builds on top of that is how you get to sub 6.

Minibosses are faster than standard rooms.

After the early rooms anyway

[drowsy hornet]

Then why does the mid shop speed things up?

Just because it's a shop?

And is thus fast?

[cloud vault]

You can take mid shop and miniboss on the same biome

[sullen valley]

Just witnessed my friend stroll up into Elysium for the first time and almost cleared the entire zone

Like, a third of Theseus's second half of HP almost

[errant linden]

what

that is so lucky ong

when I first went there I died first chamber, ,

[slim lynx]

the giant butterfly ball is so goddamn awful

[sullen valley]

Yeah he took a lot of damage from the Butterfly Ball, took a lot of time killing the ads

The dream was real though! Almost real, though

Say, other than the new Spin Slash, what's the difference between normal Asterius and EM3 Asterius?

[vale imp]

when he does his overhead slams, there's a big AOE around the landing point

also i swear his charge is way faster

[sullen valley]

Oh yeah, the AOE thing

And I assumed his charge was the same speed, but with sharper turns

[opal lodge]

his charge is faster

it's rocket boosted

both like visually and reflected in speed

[sullen valley]

Fair

[opal lodge]

and sub 9 is possible on every aspect

is it easy? definitely not

but possible

[smoky imp]

I see in the monthly challenge there is no column for the time. Would like it to have more competition, but maybe it's on purpose like that, because it's about participation and exchanging instead of competition.

[proven osprey]

Challenge is for fun

You can always compete in speedruns or high heat

[sullen valley]

Monthly Challenge?

[proven osprey]

pinned messages

[spiral badge]

Boosted health on both by a good margin

[sullen valley]

Sounds about right

Doesnt feel like it but w/e

[spiral badge]

Yeah that's a tough one to quantify but it's there

[regal garden]

should level 1 lucifer be good enough for heat 1

heat 6

i mean

wanna do a run with it

[slim lynx]

heat 6 isn't so bad

[proven osprey]

Yeah since you'll build around your attack (similar to Eris, Lightning strike etc)

Just be careful, do not dash strike too much because you want to maintain your beam

[slim lynx]

instead, dash while striking

[sonic crypt]

I tried out lucifer, did not love it

but maybe it's due to being spoiled with eris

ended up giving up to save my blood, might max out blitz shield next since that's apparently good for high heat

[grizzled oyster]

I love Lucifer. If i get my triple Special, the whole map keeps exploding

[worldly blaze]

Is the barrage special compatible with lucifer?

[grizzled oyster]

But yeah. In my runs i work a lot around the hellfire ball explosion and not so much around the normal attack, because standing still for so long to let the damage ramp up make me too vulnerable.

[spiral badge]

Blitz shield?

[worldly blaze]

Aspect of Zeus

[spiral badge]

Ohhhhh Zeus

Hard recommend

Get swole bro

[sonic crypt]

tried beo, did not go well :lu3d

[spiral badge]

Get zeus’d the **** up

[sonic crypt]

chaos is safe but a bit boring now

chaos is what I started it

[spiral badge]

Get so billowy you barely fit through doors bro

[grizzled oyster]

Which barrage Special again?

[spiral badge]

But seriously Zeus shield is a great unga bunga build

Right up there with zag shield

[worldly blaze]

5 bombs in one special thing

[grizzled oyster]

Beowulf was awesome with dio cast and the piercing shot bull rush from deadalus

[spiral badge]

add Zeus on Zeus on Zeus and get zeus’d the **** up and never stop throwing lightning bolts

[worldly blaze]

Honestly Zeus shield with support fire is also really fun

[spiral badge]

Yupppp

[grizzled oyster]

Ah. i think i didnt saw it in all my Lucifer runs so i would say it isnt. Lucifer also comes with 5 of its own deadalus upgrades so i guess one of them overwrites barrage, because after 5 hellfire at once they explode by themself, something i exploit with triple special.

[worldly blaze]

Speaking of Lucifer

Curse of Agony and Dire Misfortune

"Yes i would like my Doom to do BIG NUMBER"

[ionic dove]

uhh how does one unlock the ??? aspects of the weapons?

[proven osprey]

pinned in #h1-story-discussion

[ionic dove]

ok ok

[grizzled oyster]

This could work pretty well with Lucifer, if you also have the Flash Fire deadalus hammer that makes your attack fire faster.

I also used doom on special and had some fun with it.

But back to beowulf. I love this aspect. My highest damage number with one bull rush was 4200 and i didnt even had the optimal build i wanted, so there is still room to improve on it

[sonic crypt]

Yeah for some people beowulf clicks

for me... I just int

[grizzled oyster]

The one aspect that just wont click for me is the bow rama aspect. How do you make it work? Shared suffering seems to be only useful for group fights? And i dont know if the rest is that good with Chiron and Hera being so strong.
Could someone pls teach me how the rama aspect should be used?

[vale imp]

from what i understand, the damage boost from Rama is significant when fully upgraded and is basically a free +60% to your Attack

Rama has a pretty high base damage attack so that's where most people focus

then put like Doom/Hangover on the Special to supplement

also Dash Strike so you can shoot faster

[grizzled oyster]

Ah. So going with something like Artemis or Aphrodite on attack would give a good boost too.

[vale imp]

Yep

[grizzled oyster]

Nice. When i have the blood to upgrade i try it out. Thanks for explaining

[vale imp]

No problemo, Happy Escaping!

[regal garden]

ok

i like

lost two dds in tartarus first attempt of lucifer so i kind of gave up on that one

but i went back

got some good luck with zeus boons

and did a really fun sea storm build

got a rail record

:)

i can see why people

like it

but it seems hard to set up tbh

[worldly blaze]

imo rail is hard to set up in general

[regal garden]

yeah but

[vale imp]

Lucifer specifically is hard

[regal garden]

lucifer seems harder to than others

not sure what the hellfire attack is best for and how to use it yet but i need to upgrade it still tbh

[vale imp]

it's reliant on some specific Hammers and boons imo

The supersoaker build is really nice

Basically what you did, Poseidon on Attack then roll into Sea Storm

oh the Hellfire

[worldly blaze]

the way I like using the Hellfire is just leaving it there is a constant source of status

[vale imp]

I like Artemis

then hoping for Triple Bomb and the Hellfire hammers

you can make it so you cover the entire room in bombs

i treat it like area control really

[worldly blaze]

Bro use it with Hazard Bomb

[vale imp]

I don't know if you can get Hazard Bomb on Lucifer

[worldly blaze]

wiki says you can

[regal garden]

sea storm poseidon attack sounds good tbh

ill post my build in victory boasting

[sonic crypt]

poseidon attack on lucifer = super soaker build

[worldly blaze]

the Booze Beam (TM) seems fun for Lucifer

[regal garden]

yeah

i thought about that

when i was seeing the damage of lightning strike

maybe like

passion dash / heartbreak flourish

• drunken strike

go for low tolerance

[worldly blaze]

Heartbreak Flourish > passion dash imo

[regal garden]

yeah but if you want multiple ways to apply weak

[proven osprey]

I don't think you want to dash through your enemies with Lucy

[turbid needle]

What keepsakes are you using for aspect of demeter?

[regal garden]

you need so much titan blood tbh

i have so many weapons i want to upgrade and only 4 titan blood

[vale imp]

specifically, you need 306

to upgrade everything

[coral cave]

i just need 9 more

to max out all apsects

[regal garden]

how do i check how much ive got already

[vale imp]

Nice, I'm on my last 10

[regal garden]

i guess i could calculate from every prophecy i've completed along with all the levels of heat

ive done

along with all the extra titan blood ive gotten

[vale imp]

that's pretty much the way to do it

[regal garden]

but that would take ages

[vale imp]

don't worry about it too much, just keep farming Blood from bounties

then you'll eventually max out your aspects

[coral cave]

or you could deduct 306 from all the aspects you've upgraded

[regal garden]

i did start doing it but i need the game actually open so i can check the prophecis so

not rn

do the bounties give enoguh titan blood to upgrade everything

[vale imp]

no

[regal garden]

like how much can you get from bounties

basically

wait uh

21 x 2 per weapon right

[vale imp]

you'll get 252 from bosses over the runs

[regal garden]

oh

[vale imp]

43 from prophecies

those are the guaranteed ones

[regal garden]

right so

295

[vale imp]

then extras from Wretched Broker, the Styx Shop, and Surface Fish

[regal garden]

wow

thats alot

of stuff

[vale imp]

You might actually max out your Aspects before finishing the bounties as well

[regal garden]

how

[vale imp]

since you'll be visiting the Wretched Broker every run, and presumably being able to buy TB at the Styx shop every once in a while

also trading Ambrosia for TB

[regal garden]

never bought it from styx shop

i still need ambrosia

for companions

got 3 to max and a load of relationships to finish

[vale imp]

you'll have so much extra Ambrosia when you're done with all that

[regal garden]

probably

dont i need some for the ranks as well though

and themes

[vale imp]

not a lot

[regal garden]

i presume i shouldnt buy the

stygian theme

until i have aspect stuff done

[vale imp]

You can if you want

[regal garden]

no but i want apsects

[vale imp]

true true

[regal garden]

10 titan blood goes a long way rn

thats like 3 levels between multiple aspects

[vale imp]

true true

what's your Heat level rn btw?

[regal garden]

i still need to reveal the beowulf aspect

uh

done every bounty on 6 heat

outside of fists which is 5

so my next run is gonna be a 6 heat fists run

[vale imp]

Nice nice, definitely getting there

[regal garden]

yep

it is annoying though how long its taking to reveal beowulf

[vale imp]

oh are you talking to Chaos with the Shield equipped?

[regal garden]

yeha ive gone cosmic egg every shield run

for a fair bit

sometimes they don't even appear though

[vale imp]

Cosmic egg doesn't really increase the chance for Chaos to appear

[regal garden]

and i havent got the phrase on any other visit to chaos so i presume i still need the shield dialogue

yeah but i also still need a chaos boon for a prophecy

and i dont like losing health if i can avoid it

[vale imp]

Is beo the last one for your aspects?

[regal garden]

yeah

last one i need to reveal

and i only need to unlock gilgamesh as far as the hidden aspects as i have revealed

[vale imp]

Good luck with Beowulf then

Hands down my favorite Aspect

[regal garden]

thanks

hopefully the fists 6 heat run won't prove too much trouble

done a few runs with talos before

[vale imp]

Which pacts do you usually use?

[regal garden]

uh

for this one im doing bp1

fo1 and td1

[vale imp]

I'd actually advise you to use EM at lower heats

[regal garden]

would do em1 or 2 but im not they best against the furies with rhe fists

so

[vale imp]

so you can learn the bosses

[regal garden]

so don't wanna make it harder for myself

yeah i know i know em1 and 2ok

[vale imp]

Better to get used to them early on so that it becomes free heat later on

[regal garden]

yeah but

im not using them this fists run

is my point

[vale imp]

sure sure, do what you feel is best

[regal garden]

em1 is already like free heat on most other weapons

[vale imp]

I'd actually suggest DC1 for fists

[regal garden]

and still need to get used to em2 more probably

dc?

[vale imp]

Damage Control

[regal garden]

what's that

oh

right

[vale imp]

it gives all enemies a 1 hit shield

[regal garden]

yeah that one extra hearts

[vale imp]

since fists hit so fast, it's basically nothing

[regal garden]

maybe ill throw it on

yeah

not like uh

yeah i might use that

i used it alot earlier on in hears but i found it annoying tbh

so i just went for other ones

[vale imp]

no worries

[spiral badge]

Yeah with fists full damage control is basically free heat

Esp with Zeus or dio or anything that strikes twice quickly

And the Talos uppercut is a 2-hit combo too. Laggy but strips off max DC with one button

[merry ivy]

what boons are the requirements for the poseidon nuke cast build

[spiral badge]

Well I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to but anything with “Poseidon” and “cast” in the same sentence will involve the Artemis duo

At least

[vale imp]

Unless he's talking about the Ares-Poseidon Duo?

[spiral badge]

Person who cannot be pinged

If you are out of side quests convert your ambrosia into blood

You will run out of conversation quests before you have enough blood to upgrade your stuff fully, generally speaking

And its a 1:1 ratio

[novel lily]

Hey if I switch the butterfly keepsake to something else mid run do I lose the damage buffs I built up?

[spiral badge]

Yup

All or nothing

[novel lily]

Sad

[spiral badge]

Same with Hermès

And The Good Boy

Most of them really. A notable one that does not is Mama’s

And hypnos’, though its a one time use anyway

[regal garden]

by mama you mean persephone

yeah also i would convert ambrosia but still need alot

😔

[spiral badge]

Yup regular mama not goth mama

[vale imp]

don't worry about it, just do it when you've completed all the things that need Ambrosia

[novel lily]

Well that makes sense. I was hoping that I could use butterfly for tartarus and flower for the rest. Then it sounds like there isn't much reason to switch keepsakes mid run. 🤔

[vale imp]

Yeah pierced butterfly is a run-definer

as well as the plume

[novel lily]

Yeah, it's super sad because I really like both keepsakes

[spiral badge]

There are plenty of reasons

But not for those two particularly

All or nothing there

And tbh I feel like thans is a little bit of a noob trap for what it's worth. Hermes has a much more achievable goal and dodge and speed are such good background competencies to have

especially if you luck your way into his boon that gives you increased damage for the increased speed you have

[vale imp]

there are some weapons that are better for Pierced Butterfly

like Hestia and Guan Yu

[spiral badge]

Oh for sure

[vale imp]

since they have high base damage, they'll get a better benefit from the PB states

and they're long range so you're less likely to get hit

[spiral badge]

I just find than requires a level of execution that is a bit above a newer players ability to get activating consistently

[vale imp]

Oh for sure, definitely not really a newbie keepsake

[spiral badge]

Whereas Hermes is still great, synergizes well and is much more forgiving

[vale imp]

Honestly, more of a Meme run keepsake

[spiral badge]

That's why i label than a noob trap. Great on paper but requires real execution for results and there are better alternatives at the early end of the skill path

But wait

Shackle than rama run

The ultimate flex

I need to try that

Hades, shackle than hestia run 😳

Oof 3XL

[slim lynx]

i wonder how hard is a "hades" build

no boons and you have to use the sigil instead of shackle

[toxic kite]

Depends of the heat level i guess

[jade yew]

What do u guys think is the strongest build when it comes to successful clears on hades? I’ve so far played chiron bow artemis/aphrodite the most.

[regal garden]

i mean uh

heart rend chiron is very good yes

i need to try that properly

as in go for the right boons for that but i need to upgrade my chiron first tbh

[toxic kite]

Almost any build can do that, it depends of your playstyle to choose the one that fits you the most !

[slim lynx]

dire mistortune chiron is good

especially if you have impending doom which makes your doom deal more damage and gives you more time to add damage to it

[jade yew]

What might be a good rail gun one? Ive enjoyed range and kiting a bit more

[toxic kite]

what aspect ?

[jade yew]

Mm which aspect does it seem work the best? I heard eris is generally doing well

[toxic kite]

have you unlock the 4th aspect already ?

[jade yew]

Not yet

[toxic kite]

Ok so hestia is best imo

[slim lynx]

hestia seems weird

instead of a rapid-fire gun you have basically a sniper gun

[boreal cradle]

good bbuild for guan yu ?

[slim lynx]

that can also fire rapidly but obviously you aren't supposed to use it that way

[slim lynx]

most people build around special for some reason but i'd highly recommend getting quick spin and just building around that instead if you can

[toxic kite]

yeah but the kind of sniper build is fun to play and strong

[boreal cradle]

okay

[regal garden]

ngl might just like

do a bunch of farming runs with the shield until i get the hidden aspect

kind of sick of not having it revealed

also it helps with

darkness

need alot for my fateds then gonna pump it in badges

i should probably save up for the chaos favour before that

[spiral badge]

Hell with hestia zag rail gang rise up

Also the answer to every for-dummies rail build involves Zeus attack

Also zag rail cheap if you’re just unlocking it. Hestia outpaces it later once everything is unlocked but zag is a great investment for great amounts of dakka dakka

Person who must not be pinged Poseidon goes nicely with shield for farming. Try to look for sea storm obv and pick up the double attack boon that negates the shields KB if possible. Poseidon attack and the native shields KB is actually a little much but the twin attack buffs his weak %, invokes sea storm more and is the perfect amount of controllable knock back

[regal garden]

i have a name

chloe

[jagged grove]

Wow I wonder if they know thst posiden boons give you bonus kekw

When chloe literally mentioneded doing farming runs multiple times in da past

[regal garden]

i am aware of oceans bounty yes

[spiral badge]

My apologies for spamming build advice in the build channel 💞

[echo radish]

Small yikes

Also my beowulf run was a fail

I just can't figure out how to make crush shot work against bosses

It feels too slow on the charge up for me to effectively be keeping my dps up and dodge attacks

[turbid needle]

Dash charge?

[echo radish]

Also dash charging has been a pain

[turbid needle]

Why?

[echo radish]

Cause I always end up attacking once before entering the charge animation

[turbid needle]

That's the dash attack, that's normal

[echo radish]

I charge faster if I dash attack and then charge?

[turbid needle]

Dash, attack (hold), release

[coarse moss]

you only need to charge bullrush minimally though

[turbid needle]

And yes, the charge is faster after a dash attack

[echo radish]

Zag seems to always do a dash attack before entering the charge animation

[turbid needle]

Same with bow, and spear, the charge is faster

[echo radish]

Huh are you sure that it can be dash charged

[turbid needle]

Yes

Test normal charge vs dash charge

It's like 50% faster, maybe double speed

[echo radish]

I know it works with bow but with spear I'm sure the dash attack happens first

[coarse moss]

if i have 4 bloodstone, i load 2x and dragonrush, then load 2x again and dragon rush into the dropped bloodstones, rinse n repeat until boss dies. fully charge dragon rush does same damage as minimal charge

[turbid needle]

Also don't want to over charge Beowulf and pass your impact spot

Of course the dash attack happens first, but the subsequent charge is faster

[abstract flower]

Any good builds for Lucifer?

[grizzled oyster]

For beowulf you really only load casts in (smaller enemies only need like 1 or 2) and then you do a bullrush. Just be careful not to charge through them to far, because most of the cast occurs at the end of the rush.

[echo radish]

Yea that's what I've been doing miko

But the speed of getting into the block animation and having to retrieve the stones just feels very clunky at fo2

[grizzled oyster]

For lucifer try to get deadalus tripple special and make the map explode
For normal attack you could go for a doom build if you get the doom related boons like dire misfortune.
If you go for hellfire a lot of stuff works, especially if you get the triple special shot. I mostly like Aphrodite, Demeter or Dionysus.

[echo radish]

I'll try again later with the dash charging, maybe I was doing something wrong, if dash charge works it's definitely going to be quite a big help

[turbid needle]

Hellfire special seems so awkward.

[grizzled oyster]

Hellfire special is fun with tripple shot, because after 5 hellfire balls they explode by themself and the damage is pretty massive. So two triple special and it all just explodes all the time^^

[coarse moss]

lucifer triple bomb artemis is 👌

[turbid needle]

Just reset run til you get it?

I wish you could reroll Daedalus

[regal garden]

my current darker thirst is the shield

3rd shield of zeus run here i go in another futile attempt to get beowulf

and chaos defiance

which i probably could have got last run if i hadnt forgotten to run legacy

i had 6 dice

for persusion and none of my rerolls in 2 chaos gates got me it i think if i had legacy i could have got it

[coarse moss]

yeah usui the hammer makes it significantly stronger. the base damage of hellfire is like, similar to eris spamming special

easiest way to make the balls explode is using dash boons

[slim lynx]

is hellfire really that good?

[grizzled oyster]

I remember when i bought zeus shield by accident instead of Hades spear before i cleared the game, so i had to learn it and to this day its one of my favourite weapons. best missclick ever

[slim lynx]

i could see it being useful like how you can put two hellfires on an enemy and then they're just stuck there until you kill them pretty much

[grizzled oyster]

Hellfire is cool, when you can make it explode the whole time^^

So triple special that makes it explode by itself and some other stuff with aoe enable a lot with it^^

[spiral badge]

I really like eternal core if I'm focusing on the hellfire aspect. Being able to dash around and manipulate your beam to hit bombs is much easier if you're not worrying about reloading. Same for keeping bombs up at all times

Also great for super speaker

Soaker*

[jagged grove]

I might try a dio build today

With beo

[fading garden]

sounds fun

[spiral badge]

Be a madman and shoot for ice wine and scintillating feast

[jagged grove]

that's the plan

aiming for demeter too

for priveledged status

[spiral badge]

Those two together are immensely enjoyable

Hades, the idle game experience

Pop fog, watch pretty swirlies and bolts, repeat

[misty turret]

ok done with harsh conditions prophecy

that was kinda painful ngl

i just did all the ones i hadn't done already all at once

[spiral badge]

Oof

[misty turret]

was not expecting hades pots to count as a trap

[spiral badge]

I just did them one at a time while farming

Rip

[misty turret]

150 damage in one hit without HL/boiling blood smilers

[spiral badge]

I do not want to see whichever one gives you less choice of boons ever ever again

[misty turret]

routine inspection

or

no that's approval process

[spiral badge]

Not the one that makes you sell

[misty turret]

routine inspection is mirror

[spiral badge]

That is cheesable and tolerable

[jagged grove]

routine inspection is painful

[spiral badge]

The one that takes choices away

[jagged grove]

it's fun sometimes

[misty turret]

https://i.imgur.com/OGXwv6i.png

yeah, approval process

: |

[jagged grove]

with mirrorless run

but

[spiral badge]

Yup

[jagged grove]

goddman

is it pain

to lose those mirror upgrades

[misty turret]

underworld customs on the other hand is pretty free

[spiral badge]

Even mirrorless I can just squint and tell myself it's like when I first started

[jagged grove]

yea

[spiral badge]

Yeah you can abuse that

[misty turret]

well "free" as in "it won't be the reason your run dies"

[spiral badge]

Losing double dash is awful though

[misty turret]

playing with ruthless reflex be like

[spiral badge]

Outside of gilgamesh couldn't be me

Respect to those that do but I'm not there yet, the mobility is too useful

[jagged grove]

I'll probably use ruthless

once I max out gilga

[misty turret]

i haven't found a desperate need for more dashes usually ~~looking away from https://i.imgur.com/5jIVlkM.png~~

[spiral badge]

Yeah ruthless is an auto take for gilga

Since you get 3 no matter what

[jagged grove]

qhwhat does middle management do again?

[spiral badge]

Makes minjvoss fights harder

[misty turret]

minibosses have some extra armored enemy or problem

[spiral badge]

Free heat imp

[jagged grove]

oh

alr

[spiral badge]

Imo*

[jagged grove]

oops

I forgot

kekw

I just took it

and I forgot what it was

since the description kinda vague

[spiral badge]

I turned it on when I first got the pact and its never come off for me, ez clap

[rocky temple]

hey does anybody know whats good with the exagryph

[spiral badge]

All are decent performers

Zag is cheapest and can get stuff done

[jagged grove]

zeus attack, aphro special, zeus is always nice, and for special anything with hgiher special modifier

[spiral badge]

Eris rail best rail

[jagged grove]

with zag u can go spread shot

[spiral badge]

Hestia has meme builds that are serious business

[jagged grove]

but triple bomb and rocket bomb

along with cluster

are considered best hammers

[spiral badge]

And Lucifer is honestly the same thing but in a different style

[misty turret]

wretched sneak spawns wringers
doomstone has a new arena
the boat thing in asphodel spawns a miniboss version of voidstone
megagorgon teleports and the elite skull-crusher makes a shockwave when landing
witches' circle makes shielded projectiles that can't be destroyed (but still deflectable)
super butterfly ball gets a dash
elite encounters in styx spawn 2 minibosses

for some more detail

oh ffs

i forgot editing a reply pings

[spiral badge]

I do loooove zag rail shotty though. I'm a geezer who played MW3 and zag shotty feels exactly like the AA-12, 12 round mag and all

And you play it exactly the same

Rush around like a madman and never ever stop blasting

[jagged grove]

damn. It sounds like the witches circle has gotten more deadly without athena dash

[misty turret]

only some of the projectiles are shielded

[spiral badge]

Yeah there are some thorns in there

[misty turret]

like 1/4th of them

[spiral badge]

Make no mistake

But it's largely doable

[jagged grove]

yea ik

just that it's

annoying

[spiral badge]

The Gordon and Thwomp fight gets a good deal tougher too

[jagged grove]

if u mess up

aspho is just really annoying

[slim lynx]

gordon??

[jagged grove]

with the magma imo

[spiral badge]

Gorgon

[misty turret]

super butterfly ball dash is cancer

[forest marsh]

Power Couple is probably my least favourite MM fight

[spiral badge]

Oh it's not that bad @misty turret

[misty turret]

the only miniboss not effected by MM is asterius who's only effected by EM lmao

[spiral badge]

I find it least offensive of the bad ones

Witches room can go to hell

[misty turret]

the boat in asphodel fight is bad if you have no +% against armor

[jagged grove]

I like power couple

[spiral badge]

Boat too

[jagged grove]

power couple is actually p easy

boat is just annoying

and can eat up a lot of time

[misty turret]

the stupid miniboss voidstone has to have like 5000 armor

or something

its so tanky

[jagged grove]

oh yea

jfoiejwoigwe I remmeber now

[spiral badge]

Really? Gosh I usually barely notice he's there

Not even bragging, I struggle with plenty of them just not the big crystal. Sure he's a big boi but all the bigger and slower to wail on in my book

Also styx MM can get really peachy with the right combo

[misty turret]

miniboss voidstone has like 5 additional enemies on the small boat with you that just kills you

not the miniboss snakestone in styx

[spiral badge]

Rats and that damned armored laser stone are awful

Ohhhhhhh you mean the barge stone

Hard agree

[misty turret]

the green one

[spiral badge]

I thought you meant the tartarus stone

[misty turret]

only appears on the boat when you have MM

[spiral badge]

Yeah yeah, I'm real familiar

Hate that guy, he can be near the top on obnoxiousness if you get the wrong combo

[stuck stag]

do speedrunners use MM? I heard it's just a pain

[spiral badge]

I mean I don’t know but lemme just throw a hypothetical @ you and you see how it sticks

Fists with ares attack and Athena uppercut and dash

Uppercut is required for the duo, but what really activates it is the dash

That plus more dashes from Hermès is a world breaker

MM isn’t bonkers-broken tier for every single build, but it should have s-tier damage output at least most any way it’s built up

Oh wait, you said MM not ME lol

Middle management sees debate about effectiveness for actual speed but I like it for being relatively free heat

[dense crown]

i just hate doomstone with MM

so annoying on certain builds that early lmao

not hard just annoying

[spiral badge]

Several fights are more annoying but for the difficulty for the heat you get back I generally don’t turn Middle management off ever, even for low heat cruising runs

I think it’s one of the better +2s you can spend if you aren’t chasing PBs, and even then some people think it actually is faster

[vital hound]

what's the max amount of casts i can have?

i'm asking because...
http://prntscr.com/wm1z2e

looks like i'm about to find out

[proven osprey]

Too lazy too count but

Chaos + Fully loaded + prometheus thing

[vital hound]

i'm rocking crush shot right now

it's fun - it's like a shotgun

[proven osprey]

Stone it is

[spiral badge]

I don’t get why people poopoo aphro’s 12-gauge

[opal lodge]

crush shot is so cool

[spiral badge]

I find it compliments lots of builds so nicely

[opal lodge]

my favorite cast by far

[spiral badge]

Damage is great and boomstick go bang bang bang