I honestly don't know what I would do without persuasion
#h1-builds-and-combat
solid cairn
plain plover
true, but i like keeping ||the pom blossom|| on for my entire run
balmy portal
who doesn't 😛
but you can get much better boons by careful rerolls
which is an even bigger benefit
solid cairn
blossom is.. underwhelming from mye xperience
opal lodge
blossom is super overrated lol
river wing
big number nice tho.
plain plover
glass gets me
river wing
you really only gain much the first few levels.
balmy portal
yeah
opal lodge
you should have 4-5 levels on your cast already by the time you usually end up equipping pom blossom
solid cairn
see my main issue is you lose the control of the gods you would have from the god keepsakes, but in elysium and styx where there are more rooms you already have so many boons it's unlikely to hit what you want
balmy portal
I like starting with blossom and just randoming whatever I get
balmy portal
styx though
balmy portal
especially if you have to clear a few tunnels
the blossom triggers a bunch
since each room ticks it
solid cairn
but you have lots of boons
river wing
do you guys experience pom buffing the same thing over and over?
balmy portal
yeh
solid cairn
so it hitting what you want is rare
plain plover
^
balmy portal
get coins, turn them into higher rarity boons or 300 cost poms
blossom gets better
win-win
solid cairn
sometimes you dont get what you want in purging well lol
balmy portal
persuasion helps with that 😛
solid cairn
and I dont like rerolling those
balmy portal
but no, it's all a random game
solid cairn
seems like a waste unless I have all the duos and stuff I want
plain plover
i have been having fun messing around with runs where i only have 1-2 upgradable boons
this is why i like authority. force coin rooms to be god rooms. stonks
grab a boon, then next get duo, then purge the crap boon
balmy portal
yeah but rerolls double your chance with a given try 😛
I've gotten a lot of duos that way
plain plover
i mean... i guess, but if i get gods that don't synergize with me, its just like "cool, how many times am i going to waste the blossom on this?"
balmy portal
nothing's perfect
blossom's the only trinket that gives a permanent boost to skills, and one of only two that gives any permanent effect, so
depends how much you feel like gambling for those benefits
spiral tree
So what keepsakes should I take with chaos shield?
opal lodge
that's not how probability works but persuasion is generally considered better
either way
since god trinkets exist
balmy portal
which isn't how probability works? 😛
afaik the "10% chance" for duo is per boon slot, which means it's actually a 27% chance for a duo on any given selection that can offer them
opal lodge
rolling once doesn't "double your chance"
opal lodge
the math has been done
it just depends on a lot of different factors (god keepsake, god's legacy, etc)
balmy portal
you go from a 27% chance for a duo to a 47% chance for a duo, if you're rerolling once trying to get one and will reroll if you don't.
assuming 10% chance at a duo.
It's not quite double, but a second reroll is relatively close and for common thought is close enough to say it's a double chance
any other nitpicks you'd like to make? 😛
you're right, if you've got a trinket boosting it you could get a lesser result on the reroll since it would be consumed on the first, but it's rare to have a trinket boosting a duo pick since you'll have to have picked that god once already
so yarn or aspho story boosts
opal lodge
lol
balmy portal
I mean, I know all this crap
it's just not worth spelling out for casual conversation
pallid glade
What else to take in Styx, if you already have the boons you want? Plume or Butterfly won't go up to relevant numbers anymore, even if you manage to get something out of the Butterfly. ||Hades Keepsake if you don't have a call yet|| and Charon if there's a relevant item in the well - but otherwise?
balmy portal
there's always relevant well items, but they're also a crapshoot if you'll even find a well, let alone if it will have what you want
opal lodge
bianary it also depends on whether or not you've filled core boons, because you'll always be offered 1 core boon if not
balmy portal
or if you'll get styx screwed and they'll expire anyway
opal lodge
here is the full math
from the speedrun discord
Here are the chances of rolling a non-Hermes duo / legendary:
12% - Base chance of rolling duo/legendary per offered boon (in non-miniboss / non-styx rooms)
10% - increase from God's Legacy
10% - increase from corresponding god trinket
So for a normal room when you are running God's Legacy on the mirror and already have the pre-reqs, your overall chance of hitting the legendary/duo is:
39% - Chance with no god trinket and core boons not filled
51% - Chance with no god trinket but core boons are filled
54% - Chance with god trinket and core boons not filled
67% - Chance with god trinket and core boons are filled
things change for miniboss rooms and if you have the yarn of ariadne
balmy portal
and if you don't get it and reroll, you get a second chance.
pallid glade
or if you'll get styx screwed and they'll expire anyway
yeah, exactly! So... I end up picking the blossom almost always for Styx, because it's the only thing that helps me at all anymore.
opal lodge
but generally this is correct
balmy portal
broken spear will help with Hades
since he has a few multi-hit attack things that can wreck you instantly
or acorn is effectively ~100+ life 😛
but if you don't need defenses and don't want +30% damage to ranged, there's not a lot you can take that's worth it
opal lodge
acorn and broken spearpoint are generally preferred on non lambent plume/shattered shackle builds for obvious reasons
pallid glade
Okay, let me add one more condition: If I'm not concerned about beating ||Hades||, but doing it fast. So far, if I make it to Styx, I'm generally going to win.
opal lodge
lucky tooth is a niche pick for EM4
ok, pick hourglass or skull earring
spoilers are allowed myrion
pallid glade
ah, I thought they were discouraged 🙂
Hm. Skull Earring is one I should probably try out more.
opal lodge
this channel is fine
balmy portal
this channel is full spoilers allowed
pallid glade
Hourglass has just... not helped me too often. Too many bad wells^^
Ahhhh
okay, thanks!
balmy portal
in the story and spoilers channel, oddly, endgame spoilers are discouraged
opal lodge
if you're running a cast build
getting a prometheus stone/braid of atlas is enormous for speed
balmy portal
yeah
opal lodge
since your cast is flat damage
balmy portal
it's nice that there's two
opal lodge
and the braid is percent based
balmy portal
get both, profit like crazy
half light
What else to take in Styx, if you already have the boons you want? Plume or Butt...
hypnos purse if you know you want more boons/health but have too little money
you can also still force a boon in styx too if you feel like you're missing something you really wanted
if you're going for boonless, shackle ofc
if poison kicks your butt, patty's spear point
else if you need help surviving against the final boss, acorn or cerberus collar
fast keepsake would probably be skull earring or distant memory if you like to be far from ||dad||
but if you really dont have a need for a boon, leveling a low one is also good in styx
plain plover
what would everyone say is the worst god to take for fists?
balmy portal
dio imo
pallid glade
Thanks everyone for your tips!
That all makes sense and will probably help 🙂
Wanna get that sub 10 now that my best is at 12:44 🙂
half light
there is no objectively worst for fists, it really depends on how you personally play fists imo
balmy portal
or zeus
half light
zeus is always good
balmy portal
actually zeus is probably worse than dio
opal lodge
zeus is amazing on fists lol
balmy portal
but there's always playstyles that'll work for either
half light
depends on your usual build/playstyle
opal lodge
high rate of attack, flat damage
half light
i only said "good" not amazing
balmy portal
yeah that's kinda like dio
so how many zeus boons does it take to reach amazing level 😛
opal lodge
what else would you put on fists? zeus outdamages everything else
plain plover
i love dio on fists
balmy portal
only on the basic attacks
half light
zeus is always good on any weapon that doesnt have great multi-enemies attacks
opal lodge
yeah you dont put like zeus on the special
balmy portal
and fist dash attacks have pretty high base damage
opal lodge
this is zeus attack
balmy portal
ah
so when someone says "fists" they mean just fist attack?
sure, that changes things.
half light
zeus on special always sucks imo 😂
opal lodge
zeus attack artemis special is the usual go to for demeter builds in speed/high heat
half light
either cast or attack for zeusy boi
tardy swan
except blitz disc
pallid glade
zeus on special always sucks imo 😂
I like it on Bow special
half light
i only ever do beowulf for shields and its special kinda sucks
really forget about zeus and chaos lol
pallid glade
Especially if I'm doing a Hera build where it lets me get Scintillating Feast while not taking up the slot of anything I'll actually use xD
half light
I like it on Bow special
yeah bow special and zeus do work but so does everything but zeus on bow special 🤔
half light
tru
pallid glade
Gotta put some status on there.
opal lodge
depends on the aspect
plain plover
what about poseidon on demeter aspect?
cunning urchin
Thunder Flourish on bow Special is really good if it's not Chiron.
half light
artemis special on talos works ok, bringing it back to fists lol
opal lodge
poseidon on demeter aspect? por que
cunning urchin
Worst Attack for Malphon is 100% Tempest Strike. No competition.
Tempest Flourish is actually pretty okay.
plain plover
i am trying to challenge myself to clear whatever heat im on with things that are considered "bad" gods for the weapon
balmy portal
game doesn't reward you for clearing higher heat than you've gotten bounties to 😦
plain plover
meh. want rewards, and more interesting games
balmy portal
until you do 20 clears per weapon
*doesn't reward you for the increased difficulty
so
finite socket
The strongest build is Super Soaker Lucifer
balmy portal
if you get tempest flourish on rocket shotty, you can slide Hades as he goes into his second phase. If you slide him off to the right, he'll go into unreachable terrain and you can't kill him >.>
is it just me or is lucifer extra-bad on gamepad, compared to other gun builds?
pallid glade
if you get tempest flourish on rocket shotty, you can slide Hades as he goes int...
YOU SAVED DAD 😄
pallid glade
That's impressive. Did you report it?
balmy portal
also posted a screenie of it there for commemorating 😛
you can just see the edge of his invuln shield at the right side of the screen
oh had I realized the mouse would let me shift the view I could have gotten him onscreen 🤦
well, next time.
balmy portal
he yeeted a looong way
the way knockback works seems like it adds up and because he was going into his kneeling invuln it didn't cancel like it normally would, or something?
I'm not quite sure what all happened.
I had a lot of damage boosts too
just one of those fun moments 😛
at least there wasn't a fishing spot
I'm so brokenhearted when I die in Greece with a fishing spot there
stray olive
What's considered the best fist build for the first clear with the fists?
balmy portal
that's pretty personal playstyle dependent
I did it with the charging fists after pushing them as high as I could with blood gathered from other weapons, my brother prefers the magnetic cutter one...
I forget their proper names 😛
half light
Colossus Knuckle is definitively a good backbone to any fists build to make it through
stray olive
Lol I was going to say, I've never heard of the charging fist
balmy portal
the one that you hit 12 attacks then your special hits bonus times
stray olive
Oh nice okay
plain plover
charging is demeter. i prefer it honestly
half light
the one that you hit 12 attacks then your special hits bonus times
demeter?
pallid glade
I used the Zagreus Fists, Lambent Plume and Hermes' dodge bonus, because getting in so close with the fists made be dodge poorly myself xD
plain plover
i do like talos
balmy portal
I like it because then I can do hit and run, and unleash a huge whallop
half light
talos is bae
balmy portal
and you only need to really boost your special to rip things down
pallid glade
had like a 50% dodge chance at the end
opal lodge
talos and dem are my favorites
half light
talos with ares ont he special? beautiful
opal lodge
talos just for pure button mashing
half light
yEs
balmy portal
talos is nice because of how safe mashing special is 😛
half light
but also special kicks butt
opal lodge
and dem if i actually want damage
i actually almost never uppercut with talos lol
mostly attack/cast and magnet
half light
demeter fists + aphro attack and ares special sounds beautiful, gotta try one day
stray olive
You guys take draining cutter for survival?
deep salmon
is it just me or poseidon secret shield is actually great
river wing
gilga and hold dash UwU
deep salmon
poseidon attack*
river wing
draining cutter is so impossible to utilize
opal lodge
poseidon attack secret shield? what
tempest strike will shove them out of your casts
why would you want that
balmy portal
why is draining cutter hard to utilize?
mostly I like it because it lets me go into boss fights at/near full health
opal lodge
just take breaching cross/explosive upper
opal lodge
cant take damage if enemies are dead
balmy portal
but those aren't always offered
deep salmon
not when you bullrush enemies near you
opal lodge
there are almost always better hammers than draining upper though
solid cairn
I like when people justify cursed slash by saying "the health penalty doesn't matter if you don't get hit"
deep salmon
ending up in the same spot as where they shove over
opal lodge
do what you want but tempest strike on beowulf isnt going anywhere anytime soon haha
solid cairn
it's more manageable with charged shot
opal lodge
sir where is your crit
solid cairn
PP
balmy portal
I find heartrend overrated for most runs
solid cairn
what
opal lodge
cin stop trolling me
proven osprey
Don't underestimate it
solid cairn
hunter mark
proven osprey
Heartrend is an amazing damage boost
balmy portal
it's +150% damage on top of +200% damage base for crits right?
so it's like a +30% damage increase
given base 100% + 200% crit + 150% heart rend
but that's only +30% on crits to weak targets
it's certainly not bad
opal lodge
yes but that 450% crit is applied multiplicatively
balmy portal
yes
opal lodge
so you have your % mod on your attack/special/whatever
balmy portal
you'll notice how my base started at 100% 😉
opal lodge
but you said 100% +
balmy portal
that's 100% of whatever your full multipliers are
I mean
if you want to nitpick again it's base x (2 + 1.5)
deep salmon
how does parting shot work on beo
plain plover
is there anything worth taking from aphro on talos fists?
deep salmon
or does it work at all
turbid needle
heart rend goes dumb
balmy portal
anyway, you're a very picky fellow for casual conversation Bright
pretty sure it's actually clear what I mean.
opal lodge
lol
half light
lol
solid cairn
bright is always right
turbid needle
lol
solid cairn
it's in his name
deep salmon
also, is talos pull cancellable with cast?
or do i really need to commit to that uppercut
opal lodge
yes should be
plain plover
i am doing a zeus talos run. any advice?
deep salmon
i see
turbid needle
dont get hit
opal lodge
you should be able to dash cancel it
half light
i am doing a zeus talos run. any advice?
have fun
solid cairn
wholesome
deep salmon
dash cancel feels weird position wise tho
balmy portal
I enjoy talos + ares cast
solid cairn
turbid needle
i cant decide if i like talos or demeter more
plain plover
im not great with ares cast, but that actually sounds pretty good
half light
why decide
plain plover
same
turbid needle
both r so good
balmy portal
it's not a great high heat strategy
half light
play with both
deep salmon
farm for both
balmy portal
trying to position to pull things along the blade rift is a great way to get hit
but it's fun
turbid needle
i have em both at lv 4
balmy portal
anyway the reason I say heart rend is overrated is because it's not build defining, just a nice boost to a strong build (And the single biggest boost you can pick up late run for a crit build)
turbid needle
heart rend is surely build defining for stuff like nemesis
i just had an aphro talos run lemme grab it
half light
but does aphro have anything worthwhile for talos?
aphro on attack can be good since the uppercut + cast would be your main but attack would still do good damage?
plain plover
i have zeus on attack currently
half light
also a good choice
balmy portal
misty - the build won't work without it?
balmy portal
30% less damage
opal lodge
it's pretty build defining for many other weapons too if you're trying to go fast
balmy portal
give or take
plain plover
epic zeus attack
balmy portal
I could do the actual math
balmy portal
yes, 30% less total damage
turbid needle
which is a LOT
proven osprey
I guess
balmy portal
it doesn't inherently change how the build works
proven osprey
It's even better on GY
deep salmon
aphro debuff on beo makes me think of getting artemis cast instead
proven osprey
So I value it a lot
balmy portal
I'm not saying heart rend isn't strong!
proven osprey
Since charged skewer adds 200%
balmy portal
but like the multi-strike hammers?
opal lodge
if you dont like heart rend dont use it
opal lodge
but theres a reason why 50% of speedrun builds use heart rend
balmy portal
those are stronger
opal lodge
those are all things out of your control lol
you can force artemis + aphro
obviously charged skewer means more on GY
but you arent guaranteed to find charged skewer
you can almost guarantee heart rend
proven osprey
On GY is just unrivaled tbh
proven osprey
but you arent guaranteed to find charged skewer
Stahp
turbid needle
olympic spear yeeter
balmy portal
I'd love it if zag spear could get explosive launcher rolled into it baseline
gimme a reason to run it plz
solid cairn
thats guan yu
balmy portal
yeah kinda
oh
make zag spear special detonate on second press of Y, or recall on X
differentiate it from the others more but still keep the boomerang effect available
turbid needle
thats not the point of a zag aspect
balmy portal
what's the point?
plain plover
all the zag aspects are just stats up
balmy portal
besides being weak
turbid needle
base weapon with stats up
turbid needle
it only takes 5 titan blood to max
opal lodge
"it's 5 titan blood what do you expect" -amir
turbid needle
zag bow is p good
balmy portal
yeah, but the spear's base stat boost is on its special.
Very different beast than the bow
plain plover
and they aren't weak. they're normal. plain.
balmy portal
weak.
the spear, specifically
wahoo its weakest attack is a tiny bit better
pray you get explosive hammer.
turbid needle
ackshually its weakest attack by base damage is dash attack
i still gotta try maxed zag shield
plain plover
concentrated or long knuckle?
turbid needle
long knuckle is busted
turbid needle
i tried zeus shield for the first time today and i liked it
deep salmon
i'm not even sure how concentrated knuckle works when you get rolling knuckle
opal lodge
zeus shield is basically zag shield but better
deep salmon
does it interrupt after the next dial
opal lodge
at least if you believe baj
plain plover
i rarely use special with shield, so i just stick with zag
turbid needle
zeus shield special is completely different
deep salmon
imagine ares blades
turbid needle
get zeus (god) special and its literally a free win
plain plover
i somehow managed to clear a room as something was about to spawn?
balmy portal
zeus shield is so zeus
opal lodge
zeus shield special is in this weird place where it works with % boons because of its high base damage and with flat damage boons because of its high rate of attack
balmy portal
Shell - do you have boosts to armored foes?
plain plover
i do
balmy portal
there's one boost that makes them constantly spawn shadow clones, if you kill the master the incoming summons die
plain plover
ahhh
balmy portal
and you win 🙂
turbid needle
i was so sad when i found out about empowering flight w zeus
only applies from the first hit 😔
turbid needle
it makes sense
balmy portal
kinda, but should be worded better then
turbid needle
bc otherwise it would be stupid overpowered
balmy portal
well
turbid needle
cosntant 80% damage buff
balmy portal
just run it with the blast when you catch
and keep spamming the special/recalling it in between two attacks
SURE
-caps; anyway it's fine mechanically, but it needs a description fix
opal lodge
maybe you should apply to sgg as a tooltip writer
fix sword hammer tooltips while you're add it
along with huge catch
turbid needle
do chaos +attack boons apply to dash attack
my gut is telling me no
bc they have a specific dash attack boon
opal lodge
yes they do
turbid needle
oh damn alright
deep salmon
woah
opal lodge
but dash strikes are also weaker to begin with
unless
you get hunter dash
generally speaking
sword is a different case
turbid needle
sord....
opal lodge
where the dash strikes are actually better than the standing attack
deep salmon
wait, even arthur?
turbid needle
arthur is kind of a special case
opal lodge
arthur is pretty unsolved
standing attacks and special are really high base damage
but really slow rate of attack
dash strikes are really fast and probably higher dps
but no one really knows for sure
dash strikes are definitely better if you get double edge but that's quite the caveat
turbid needle
its also way easier to hit multiple enemies w standing attacks
deep salmon
i'd really only enjoy sword outside arthur if i get wave + flurry hammers
turbid needle
considering one swing takes up a quarter of the room
balmy portal
I love arthur sword
the only thing that makes me sad is dash attacks don't steal life with the hammer
turbid needle
that would make cursed slash too good
plain plover
i am realizing that i have overlooked how good zeus can be
balmy portal
yeah I know misty
turbid needle
hes really good on stuff that attacks fast
balmy portal
just feels inconsistent 😛
like draining cutter works with dash upper kills
but dash upper is not the same as standing upper, because it doesn't trigger chaos penalties on special use
turbid needle
interesting
I learned that chaos penalties for attacking can't kill you and used that to my advantage bc I was already at super low health
balmy portal
yeah 😄
the sword hammer just needs to say "standing attacks" or something, for clarity
honestly 90% of my nitpicks about skills would be resolved if the descriptions were more carefully worded 😛
half light
brother how many more nitpicks do you have o.o
deep salmon
has anybody tried water gun lucifer
feral sail
Chiron special + heartbreak flourish + Daedalus special +4 is dealing DUMB damage for me rn
opal lodge
LOL
nitpicks btw
chaos dash strike damage also applies to dash uppers
if that changes your decision making at all
deep salmon
oh wow
verbal marsh
chaos dash strike damage also applies to dash uppers
I just did a run where it did not. [Edit nooope, I misread]
Oh
No sorry
I'm dumb, misread
opal lodge
are you sure? this has been tested before so unless they changed it it should be the same
ok
verbal marsh
I thought you meant that special damage (penalty) applied to dash uppers
and it doesn't do that 😛
Brain fart on my end
balmy portal
it's so weird
be nice if any dash special got boosted if dash uppers will 😛
I understand that mechanically gloves are the only ones (I think) that have a different dash special
but it's not clear from the game descriptions
opal lodge
dang another nitpick would you look at that
deep salmon
this is now #hades-nitpicks channel
half light
jinx
deep salmon
😂
turbid needle
eyyy what's the deal with exit wounds amirite
opal lodge
it didnt
verbal marsh
chaos dash strike damage also applies to dash uppers
Does artemis dash strike apply to glove uppers?
balmy portal
this is now #hades-nitpicks channel
discussion of design
opal lodge
and that works differently than you'd "assume"
verbal marsh
Yeah, I've definitely found that 😄
balmy portal
that's why I nitpick the descriptions 🙂
Accurate descriptions would let you figure out how everything works just by reading them
verbal marsh
50 base dash upper, with Arty 70% dash upper it's 80. That's... not quite right, I'd expect 85.
plain plover
welp. made it to the arena, and died.
balmy portal
boon +5% damage
or more?
anyway you're adding 70% to some other boosts
pretty clearly working though, so that's neat
verbal marsh
I'm doing 50 vs Skelly, so no boon there
opal lodge
emrot is your 50 vs skelly factoring in shadow/fiery presence or high confidence?
half light
if you nitpick that much it must mean you care alot about this game, that makes me happy 🙂
balmy portal
it should be over 85 given the +5% per god too
verbal marsh
I'm hitting from the front, so no shadowy presence.
opal lodge
and thick skin?
verbal marsh
Maybe dash upper already has a damage multiplier?
balmy portal
ah
that would make sense
from a coding perspective
...makes it hard to figure out results from a gameplay perspective
opal lodge
you should give them all this feedback
im sure they can incorporate it into a future patch
balmy portal
sure, how do I actually contact them?
the official preferred channel
kinda hard to find.
opal lodge
if you think it warrants fixing just put it in test branch i guess
balmy portal
reporting bugs I've done
verbal marsh
Yeah, dash upper with no boon is 52 (50 + 5%) so that adds up, or at least close enough
balmy portal
that doesn't sound like a dash damage mod
verbal marsh
the 5% is from having one boon
balmy portal
yeah
but it should be lower than 52 if there's a dash damage mod that was lowering the artemis dash
I wonder if the artemis dash is listing an incorrect +% damage
verbal marsh
Which would mean my dash upper with the +70% dash damage is doing 78, plus 2 from a boon to give me that 80 damage...
56% damage boost instead of 70%
Weird
opal lodge
is it an epic hunter dash?
verbal marsh
Ah! The shackles for 100% extra damage only add 40 damage, not 50
Yeah, it was epic hunter dash
balmy portal
okay
verbal marsh
So dash upper is 40 damage with a +25% damage modifier
balmy portal
so the boosts are only adding 80% of what they're expected to be
yeah
is a regular upper 40?
verbal marsh
40 * 1.7 is 78 damage, add that 2 from a boon for 80. That adds up
Regular upper is 37 (x2)
balmy portal
huh
I'd have expected the dash upper to be regular upper +%
if the damage is rounding is it sloppy enough that could be going on?
37 x 85%
um
I guess * 210%
(100 + 25 + 80 + 5)
verbal marsh
I doubt it? Because the shackle at 100% and the dash strike at 70% both add up.
balmy portal
yeah
...hm
unless it does individual packets and rounds those, then adds them together
wouldn't that be wonky
verbal marsh
heh, the shackle only makes regular uppers do 67 damage though, not 74...
balmy portal
what.
verbal marsh
Do I just have a hidden 25% damage boost somewhere?
verbal marsh
....
verbal marsh
emrot is your 50 vs skelly factoring in shadow/fiery presence or high confidence...
You were right, High Confidence. I completely forgot I put it on.
opal lodge
haha yup
verbal marsh
OKAY ignore me yet again 😄
opal lodge
ive done that before
balmy portal
tl;dr: Artemis dash works on dash uppers
turbid needle
I wanted to do a 50 hp clear but I realized I can't cause I got the darkness hp thing
verbal marsh
Yeah, though I'd rather have aphro dash to set up damage for my regular upper, in general
turbid needle
unless if I do it on a higher heat
but I'd only be comfortable doing it on sword which I've already got every bounty for
verbal marsh
But I guess with chaos applying to dash uppers, there's more flexibility...
balmy portal
you can do runs just for fun misty 😉
verbal marsh
And there's no way to turn off the darkness for +health renovation 😦
verbal marsh
You could do a sub-50 run with GY spear 😛
turbid needle
the 50hp clear would be for fun
turbid needle
but id end with 65hp
verbal marsh
Yeah but not if you're wanting sword
balmy portal
just try for the lifesteal hammer then
verbal marsh
Picking up the sword vamping hammer would also lower health, but that's not the same..
turbid needle
13 hp :D
frail schooner
15*
frail schooner
also take chaos curse and your max hp gets set to 1
verbal marsh
You can if you reroll them
balmy portal
ah, fair
turbid needle
oh I thought it was -75%
balmy portal
-70% scaling to -50%
turbid needle
I actually really like boonless nemesis
plain plover
misty. just take fated authority and reroll darkness
turbid needle
my train of thought was
"can't avoid heart rooms" → I used fated authority on my boonless run → boonless nemesis
verbal marsh
misty. just take fated authority and reroll darkness
The bosses drop shadow though, that's unavoidable
turbid needle
u can't do it to boss rewards
plain plover
crap, i forgot
verbal marsh
Maybe a mod to remove it?
verbal marsh
you could do 65hp with extra enemy +damage to offset that... 15 hp 😛
turbid needle
HL1 would offset it
heavy sigil
plain plover
all of them, depending how you play
balmy portal
I can't figure out how to do well with the hidden gun
plain plover
personally i like sword
balmy portal
but the rest I've had varying degrees of success with
half light
shield hidden is loved
spear hidden is very hit or miss, you either hate it or LOVE it
plain plover
i like the shield hidden in theory. never tried it yet
balmy portal
I guess I'm just contrary, I like spear hidden but don't love it >.>
half light
special wallflower
balmy portal
but I did love it when I first got it
then I used it a while and decided it was good but I'd theoried it stronger than it actually is
it's definitely polarizing
half light
question is the hidden spear the fastest or the hiddens?
wait no fists are faster, ignore me
half light
attack speed
cunning urchin
Hidden Rail.
half light
since shield and sword are slow but do very good damage
balmy portal
hidden rail is continuous damage 😛
half light
yeah but i ignore it and bow
balmy portal
hidden bow is slower too, its draw speed is reduced
half light
ah right forgot that
plain plover
i don't like hidden bow
balmy portal
I enjoy it
but it really distorts the normal playstyle. Which is why I use the hidden forms anyway so that's all good
plain plover
thats almost like its the point of them
half light
ignoring the hidden rail's continuous damage, is spear second fastest hidden aspect?
balmy portal
hidden bow + dual shot + explosive shot + dash attack boons (artemis/chaos) is wowow fun
spew a few specials to mark everything then just explode them with dash attacks
plain plover
oh yeah, in theory, i should like hidden bow
its just its specials don't connect well IMO
verbal marsh
Spear hidden aspect isn't that fast, is it?
half light
in theory bow should be liked
balmy portal
learning that dash attacks draw faster made me like bow
spear hidden aspect is slow, you're right
opal lodge
hidden spear can go pretty fast
balmy portal
it swings much slower than normal
half light
in reality it only is that, liked :c
opal lodge
merciful end is the shortcut that makes slow weapons fast
half light
Spear hidden aspect isn't that fast, is it?
all of the hiddens are pretty slow (except for rail) since they trade speed for damage.... fists is a weird kind of fast
plain plover
yeah, fists are... very weird to me.
like, im usually a zoomy boi, but with fists... its just too fast
half light
speed is keY
balmy portal
hidden fists are awkward
something about their dash is clunky feeling
even though they should feel super zippy
half light
guess because it's just 3?
opal lodge
no gilga dashes are shorter
half light
hermes extra dashes make it feel more zip than clunk
opal lodge
beowulf is probably the fastest shield
balmy portal
gilga dashes are shorter and their timing for getting attacks in is weird
opal lodge
unless baj wants to prove himself with a sub 8 zeus shield run
half light
with continous spear serrated point i dont know how long dashes are supposed to be anymore ;-;
plain plover
really? beo is fastest?
opal lodge
yup
plain plover
oh, i guess with the rush?
opal lodge
big damage means you go fast
half light
attack speed is slow tho
plain plover
oh, i thought you meant attack speed
opal lodge
dash attack is quite fast
half light
tru
opal lodge
clear speed is one of the quicker for weapons
half light
but not as fast as usual shiel dashattack
plain plover
me doing a learn
opal lodge
eris and beo are the only two weapons i have sub 8 minutes on
eris is fast because fast
but beo is surprisingly fast
half light
"eris is fast because fast" eris is yes
plain plover
my lowest time is... 17 minutes 
opal lodge
eris is yes
half light
with what weapon shell?
plain plover
zag shield
balmy portal
wow
hats off on that 😛
I couldn't do any good speed with zag shield
my best speed runs are glove or gun
half light
i have just few secs off from sub 15 on spear, before a patch made spear disgusting to use
balmy portal
I managed to get sub 15 with hidden spear and just plowing through
plain plover
real talk, does anyone like mistral dash?
balmy portal
it was real awkward though
verbal marsh
I got sub-15 with the Achilles spear, and I want to say casting
balmy portal
no
I'll take mistral dash if I really want to get stubborn roots and my other slots are full, but it's meh
verbal marsh
I like mistral. It's nice for clearing urns.
balmy portal
rofl
opal lodge
yes
balmy portal
mistral would be way better if it could absorb small projectiles
plain plover
so is athenas
balmy portal
nah
verbal marsh
For me it is, yeah.
balmy portal
mistral works way better
because it projects so far ahead of you
smashes urns halfway across the room
plain plover
i guess.
opal lodge
i kinda take any dash on dem fists just so i can get more zeus
balmy portal
defo the urn clearing dash.
plain plover
i never really care about clearing urns though
verbal marsh
It could also trigger the Demeter effects vs chilled enemies though.
So.. marginal benefit, but there is some.
opal lodge
marginal benefit
its mostly about filling up your god pool
so you can see more of the gods you actually want to see
cunning urchin
Me too. I will also take any dash just to fill a slot.
Sike. I lied. https://imgur.com/a/sfAHMqy
opal lodge
lol
balmy portal
I think that says more about divine dash 😉
cunning urchin
lol my pick rate got Thunder Dash and Passion Dash buffed a little when I showed it to Amir.
silver sky
ok so is there some big list or website of best builds for each option?
is there a better way than looking through this chat every time for a build
balmy portal
Divine dash probably should just do a burst of reflect at the end of the dash
like how passion dash strikes at the end
then a bit higher damage because it's not nearly as utility
plain plover
im pretty sure that divine dash is fine how it is
balmy portal
it's too good compared to all the other dashes, but sure it's fine
I don't think it should be changed at this point, it just would have been better balance had it launched that way
verbal marsh
Something I've wondered, how do Curse of Longing and Merciful End interact?
Does Merciful End just end the doom effect, or can you keep triggering dooms?
plain plover
is there any easy way to get Hermes's leg?
verbal marsh
Fated Persuasion as well, for more chances
plain plover
believe me, i have been working towards it, after people showed me how much better it is than authority
royal helm
I think Hermes legendary is a 1% chance, right?
balmy portal
Shell - respec the mirror and dump the extra darkness in? 😛
plain plover
doesn't respecing only give me half my darkness?
balmy portal
no you get it all back
plain plover
oh, cool!
acoustic spire
Why does thunder flourish (special bolt) proc multiple times on one target with charon bow, but only once with Rama?
acoustic spire
Hm, so maybe it was removed? I have seen some builds on yutube with quite impressive special bolt damage.
balmy portal
my guess is it was pre-launch and all the specials could, then post launch it was changed
but the easiest is to just test 😛
acoustic spire
Ye, I just tested it and it doesn't work.
balmy portal
it did make me sad
acoustic spire
In that case I don't quite see a situation where I would ever pick this boon.
balmy portal
but it does mean you can use the zag bow and zeus to spray pretty good damage to larger groups
hidden bow only shoots 3 projectiles and they do pitifully low damage
and ricochet
it's a pretty good damage boost there
acoustic spire
I prefer doom or hangover there.
half light
then force em
balmy portal
it really isn't great
shock, that is
force a god just to buff a special attack that's not the point of the build?
I guess if you really want to...
silver sky
ok I have one more demeter to unlock but it requires crystal beam
What is a good build that implements crystal beam?
half light
if you have no need for any other keepsake forcing a god is a good option of not losing a keepsake use
balmy portal
crystal beam + the demeter boon that makes it chill + arte duo
get a few poms in it and as much +% damage and +casts as you can
just drop crystals everywhere and run around while they kill everything for you
acoustic spire
Is there a way to contact the dev team, and ask them to maybe buff the boon?
balmy portal
I mean
they intentionally nerfed it to where it is now
presumably they realize it's a weaker option
silver sky
crystal beam + the demeter boon that makes it chill + arte duo
With what weapon though?
static karma
Not Hera or secret shield for sure
acoustic spire
Adamant rail?
Gives a nice +75% damage bonus.
Oh, and how does ruthless reflex work.
Does the 50% damage bonus apply to just one instance of damage?
balmy portal
melonboy - poseidon sword, the gun that does +damage when you special yourself, or achilles spear and dash to it frequently for its damage boost
turbid needle
it lasts for 2 seconds josef
balmy portal
basically any weapons that just add casting damage work great
acoustic spire
And does it apply to all kinds of damage?
acoustic spire
I didn't notice any increase on boon damage for some reason.
Well, there arent many other ways to get such big bonus on boons.
balmy portal
casts don't get a lot of +damage
the artemis duo adds 10%, but that's minor; hopefully you'll have chaos adding even more
so they get really high base damage then even +100% is a large increase
just get lasers early and start dropping poms on them
plain plover
artemis duo with demeter cast is great? why are you saying its minor?
plain plover
OHH okay
balmy portal
🙂
plain plover
yeah, the tracking is incredible
weak violet
Trying to think if poseidon attack is good on the rails so that i might have the chance on getting sea storm yet rn i have a zeus attack
balmy portal
it's alright
weaker than zeus but the ability to shove enemies back repeatedly is nice
it's a weak push though
weak violet
But mix it with breaking wave?
balmy portal
it's hard to hit things into barriers with it
unless you're using ... whichever the reload gun is
weak violet
Cuz im using Eris rn, i have a poseidon special and a zeus attack and rn i have two options to either get the poseidon dash or switch attacks
But ill mostly go for the dash
balmy portal
poseidon dash is great for knocking things around
weak violet
Yep, especially for barriers
Aaand i just killed Alecto in atleast 30 seconds
Just from Eris poseidon special and zeus attack
grim vessel
guys i need help
I hate that machine gun but i need to beat ||dad|| with it so i can get that quest that gives us 10 of those blood coin for beating the game with every weapon
does anybody know a spicy build for it?
half light
zeus attack with ares or artemis special, cluster bomb or triple bomb and athena's dash is a good safe base build
and zeus cast if we're on zeus anyways
half light
bad for attack but good for special if you mean to get boons for?
grim vessel
bad for attack but good for special if you mean to get boons for?
yep
balmy portal
then stack attack damage and dash strike damage
and just dash attack + reload + dash attack everything to death
and you're done.
half light
you mean hestia aspect?
half light
all gun aspects are good aspects
balmy portal
take attack pierces + 50% damage to armored targets
and you don't even need to pay attention to shields
it just punches through everything
half light
there is an issue with hestia tho with hammer
balmy portal
you can start your dash before your reload finishes then fire at the end of it
half light
so it's not so great for beginners i'd say
half light
the triple shot
balmy portal
what issue
half light
it turns hestia off
balmy portal
just don't take the one that gives you the shotgun effect
thick valve
anyone got some good advice for someone who is new to aegis?
half light
when?
balmy portal
now the first shot fires hestia normal
half light
it was broken yesterday
balmy portal
dunno but I've used it in the last ~month
so unless this last patch just broke it, it's fine
wat
half light
huhhh
balmy portal
...maybe it's a hammer I've never used
grim vessel
just don't take the one that gives you the shotgun effect
have already made it yesterday.That run was the worst of my life
half light
thats why it's broken
balmy portal
no don't take burst fire with hestia that's a terrible idea
but hestia can reload while full ammo, why does that break it
half light
we know it but newer people who dont look into the disc dont, very sad
balmy portal
sorry I thought you meant the short range one
which hestia interacts weirdly with
no like
why would you take a never reload hammer on a gun that's all about manually reloading 😛
just don't do it >.>
half light
i dont know enough about hestia to have noticed you talking about something different
half light
why would you take a never reload hammer on a gun that's all about manually relo...
cause you're maybe allergic to reading or thik you can still reload since it doesnt say it and still works with the aspect
half light
yeah i know now
half light
there being infinite ammo takes the reload function
grim vessel
well, thanks a lot for helping me
cunning urchin
Hestia can reload with Delta Chamber.
grim vessel
going to try it right now
cunning urchin
If you can't, that's a bug.
half light
there have been reports of it being broken
cunning urchin
balmy portal
maybe on Switch?
half light
so multiple people have it, great
balmy portal
if it was patched post-launch
balmy portal
definitely
half light
i feel bad for their issues
half light
but i dont know enough about switch update mechanics to say if it couldve been handled better
balmy portal
you reload, fire -> long range shot, fire again and it's close range
and then you run out of ammo fast and it messes up your manual reload 😛
(if you actually try to shoot just to finish off the last few hits of something)
half light
"Reduce Attack range to 320
Increase Attack cooldown to 150%" that really doesnt sound so spicy
balmy portal
deals 40 base damage
it's like a shotgun
but it's awful with hestia 😛
because hestia's reload doesn't play nicely with it
it basically turns your gun attack into crush shot
pallid glade
feels like it's far too short-ranged though to be useful
balmy portal
like crush shot 😉
you can play gun almost as melee anyway if you want
and 40 base damage is way higher
opal lodge
the person who cleared 56 heat on hestia likes spread fire on it 🤷♂️
do what works for you
opal lodge
spread fire doesnt impact the empowered shot
balmy portal
and then just spray if you need to put something down close
opal lodge
yup
balmy portal
and it makes the follow reasonable
half light
isnt there some boon or keepsake that rewards short range attacks?
or was it the opposite only with distant memory?
pallid glade
Different League gives you damage reduction against nearby enemies
balmy portal
there's only long range
half light
ok thanks :)
pallid glade
(and there's a bow upgrade, but not relevant here)
turbid needle
point blank triple shot call that shotbow
balmy portal
I like triple explosive 😛
solid grail
Everyone seems to suggest Artemis and Aphrodite as the only mains choices for aspect of Arthur I was wondering if anyone had any other good build for Arthur they have found to do well?
half light
deflect on attack works beautifully with the hidden sword aura
cunning urchin
Yeah, Divine Strike is the other common choice.
But you can also just run Shackle on it.
weak violet
Aight so apparently if you combine typhoon fury and breaking wave w/ or without crit, you can get atleast 2.6k damage?
And it was a poseidon special on Eris
cunning urchin
Special build with Double Nova and Dash Nova can also be surprisingly effective, but that relies on getting at least Double Nova, so it's not a consistent build.
But it's something you can go for if you get that hammer upgrade early on.
opal lodge
you can sort of switch arthur builds based on which hammers you pick up
weak violet
Do i want privileged status on a zeus special chiron?
tardy swan
I think privileged status is amazing with chiron bow.
weak violet
Yeah, i know that privileged status is good on chiron, i was just mostly wondering which statuses i should use
tardy swan
I'd recommend picking up Static Discharge for the jolted status and then either getting Heartbreak Strike or Curse of Agony.
tardy swan
I like doom on the main arrow, since you hit rarely but hard with it and then just something that hits often on the special, like frost, hangover or lightning.
Ideally I like knockback+rupture on the attack, but that's a 2 boon combo.
weak violet
Yeah, i was going for lightning for the most DPS
Poseidon attack + rupture does sound quite nice
tardy swan
If you get weak on the attack and hangover on the special you can maybe even get the aphro + dio duo for even more hangover stacks.
weak violet
Then if you get lucky you could get sea storm
tardy swan
yes
weak violet
Isn’t that low tolerance?
tardy swan
yeah
turbid needle
More storm lighting or more lighting strike?
More damage per lighting or more chain lightning hops?
Considering which to pom up
Does chain lightning only work with multiple enemies?
Does it hop 6 times between enemies when there are only 2-3 enemies?
weak violet
On which weapon?
turbid needle
Rail
weak violet
Hm, i’d prefer lightning strike
turbid needle
Eris aspect
weak violet
More chain damage
turbid needle
More damage not more hops?
One is 19-22 damage. The other is 6 hops to 8 hops
More hops sounds op
But I'm not sure how it works
weak violet
Well i don’t really know, i usually go for lightning strike for the chain damage and go for anything on the special
turbid needle
Also, if you see a god you want and a hammer, does the hammer come back and so better to go for the boon?
weak violet
Yeah the hammer comes back
So yeah, i’d prefer getting the god first and the hammer later
opal lodge
pom the attack
dont pom storm lightning
poms past +4 on storm lightning is kind of absurd
and storm lightning is mostly just for splitting bolt
weak violet
when you get sea storm early on a poseidon + zeus build
deep topaz
