is there a scripted run to get the legendary?
#h1-builds-and-combat
gray shore
The first time you see Poseidon legendary
gray shore
it's totally scripted and unavoidable
balmy portal
that's bad in a way because it left me thinking the reqs were lying to me
but yeah then
balmy portal
you have to take two non-combat boons (or the conch shell + one) for a completely useless in-run legendary
you're right making it much stronger would be nice
gray shore
Precisely how I feel about that boon
I literally just sell the legendary when I get it
xd
torpid abyss
So, ya think blizzard shot is worth it?
balmy portal
it was neat but I don't usually take the reqs to get to it
balmy portal
well
it makes the projectiles not embed so it knocks enemies away and can hit them repeatedly
torpid abyss
Hmmm
balmy portal
which does mean if you want them embedded for bosses you're out of luck
but it's much stronger against trash mobs
torpid abyss
Yeah, i have a rocket shotgun
balmy portal
oh you have bosses wrecked already
torpid abyss
So i would like to embed bloodstones
balmy portal
tbh rocket shotgun wrecks everything so just do whatever you want 😛
torpid abyss
Ehh, extra push damage on bosses
torpid abyss
Oh look
balmy portal
nom nom 400 gold
torpid abyss
It's a nice ominously floating bag of gold
I sure hope nothing bad happens to me when taking it!
balmy portal
😄
...apparently for fishing rare catches ||there's a 1/3 second window when a fish becomes available that you have to trigger in for a chance at a rare? Devs you gotta tell us that's a thing because that's not how fishing works when you get a bite!!! 😦 ||
torpid abyss
Yeah fishing in Hades sucks
tardy swan
you got to be really fast.
balmy portal
It's just unintuitive
super unintuitive
and the game should tell you that's what you're trying to do
tardy swan
Getting a legendary fish feels sooo difficult. 
balmy portal
to get one you have to ||hit fish within .33 seconds of it becoming available (out of the total 1 second time) and then you have a 1 in 21 chance||
turbid needle
just don't breathe
balmy portal
and that's not messaged anywhere in the game!!!
balmy portal
regardless
the way it's set up is super weird
unintuitive and desperately needs messaging
balmy portal
but like
torpid abyss
So they don't take fishing seriously at all
balmy portal
why
why not just do pure rng
instead of giving a .68 second window, and if you catch in the first half you get a "perfect" catch
that's not advertised
how in the world does the timing of when I yank impact what I pull out of the water 😛
balmy portal
okay fishing does tell you when you get a perfect catch, but I never noticed cause there was nothing telling me about it 😛
turbid needle
I want more Chaos fishing
want higher percentage fishing in general
it's really fun
also Styx seems higher percentage then 10% for me
primal hazel
Where you got that chart from?
balmy portal
dunno my brother found it
turbid needle
I feel like I get 2-3 catches every run
balmy portal
2-3 styx catches??
turbid needle
no, total
balmy portal
that's about right
dry ember
The chance of getting good fish feels much higher than 1/21
dry ember
I understand that the wiki says approx 5%
dry ember
The .34s one
balmy portal
5% is for legendary
turbid needle
i think I get the .34s one every time or better
balmy portal
from the .34s one
dry ember
But if you play enough, the chance of getting legendary feels much higher
Like seriously
turbid needle
i don't think I want to try and get the slower one
balmy portal
haven't seen it
dry ember
Not just me but many people think so, too
turbid needle
I agree with fox
primal hazel
Seems fishy
balmy portal
either way it's really poorly communicated, is my bigger issue
what you need to do to have a chance at getting a legendary fish
unrelated to fishing but related to rng, I think everyone doing speed running would like a mode that normalized out the story/fountain/styx chances without screwing with overall randomness >.>
dry ember
either way it's really poorly communicated, is my bigger issue
Yeah well sometimes game mechanics are hidden
balmy portal
that's ...
dry ember
Many other things aren't mentioned also
balmy portal
not good reasoning for poor design
dry ember
Like max 4 god pool
dry ember
Hermes being same as Hammer, aka 2 max
turbid needle
styx really sucks for speed runners
dry ember
The game doesn't tell you that damage is additive or multiplicative either
balmy portal
this isn't a "tooltip" thing
dry ember
Like if you want to list things, where do we stop?
balmy portal
it's a "that doesn't work the way you'd expect and it's needed to complete fated items"
...
turbid needle
I wish there was a guarunteed 2 or 3 chamber rule for styx, with another healing fountain for all five chambers
primal hazel
Like max 4 god pool
It's the maximum number of gods that can naturally appear
balmy portal
none of your examples were of things that impact completed fates or filling in your book from repeated runs, FoxHope
turbid needle
You need a legendary to complete a fate?
primal hazel
Pool would imply a limited number of gods in rotation
balmy portal
yeah
turbid needle
I thought it was only a rare catch for Poseidon
balmy portal
you can't finish Poseidon's quest without catching a legendary
"rare" means legendary fish
primal hazel
Rare is legendary
dry ember
it's a "that doesn't work the way you'd expect and it's needed to complete fated...
They don't tell you how to get 4th aspects either. There are quests related to them.
balmy portal
yes
balmy portal
but they happen naturally over gameplay
every one of your examples does not impede gameplay
the fishing minigame being completely unexplained does impede finishing quests and is unintuitive
dry ember
How does fishing affect gameplay
balmy portal
which makes it something that should be explained, where the others are fine
it impacts completing a quest
balmy portal
unlocking legendary aspects Just Happens by playing
Getting a legendary fish does not just happen if you're just relaxed fishing.
dry ember
So why can't you figure out fishing by playing?
balmy portal
and tbh I thought fishing was relaxing
Because there's no indication that there's a reason to catch faster
primal hazel
That's two very different things
balmy portal
Because it doesn't make sense that the faster I pull up my hook the better a fish I get
primal hazel
Fishing isn't a major part of the game
dry ember
Because there's no indication that there's a reason to catch faster
You can accidentally perfect catch
verbal marsh
If the perfect catch vs regular catch had some extra dialogue options it would make things more obvious
primal hazel
The could communicate perfect catches better but otherwise
balmy portal
and I've done 140 runs and only now saw the perfect catch title
verbal marsh
It's an easy fix 🙂
dry ember
Like you can stumble into unlocking legendary aspects
primal hazel
If the perfect catch vs regular catch had some extra dialogue options it would m...
Well if you perfect catch you get a giant banner that says that
primal hazel
...
balmy portal
look
primal hazel
Yeah but it says "perfect catch"
balmy portal
I'm too busy watching what fish type it is
I literally never read the dumb banner in 140 runs
because it's just another banner
primal hazel
Also it's in the codey
balmy portal
what?
verbal marsh
Well if you perfect catch you get a giant banner that says that
I've caught 150 fish and just noticed the banner 😛 The game has such good dialogue callouts that I never noticed.
balmy portal
yeah
balmy portal
I'd expect a dialogue callout for the perfect fish
yes?
I know there's three rarities!
balmy portal
I did not know I had to mash the button really fast to access the rarest
That is not how fishing works
primal hazel
So if you catch a few fishes you'll think, hmm why is there still one missinh
turbid needle
It's a game
balmy portal
yes?
and how does that point me to "I guess if I just yank the hook up really fast I can get the rarest" ?
primal hazel
I'd expect a dialogue callout for the perfect fish
There's literally a banner that says perfect catch
Instead of just catch
dry ember
Ok how about this.
balmy portal
A banner is not dialogue
primal hazel
and how does that point me to "I guess if I just yank the hook up really fast I ...
I'm just talking about the rarities not the catching
dry ember
Would you agree that the game dev cannot put instructions/tool tips for everything in the game?
verbal marsh
Also it's in the codey
Oh man you're right. There should be a fishing rod entry in the codex that explains this
balmy portal
I don't care about the rarities
dry ember
Would you agree that some aspects of the game are more important than others?
balmy portal
Would you agree that the game dev cannot put instructions/tool tips for everythi...
that's a slippery slope you're trying to lead the argument down and I completely disagree with your stance on it.
primal hazel
A banner is not dialogue
Also I already said perfect catches should be better explained
But I'm also saying there's a banner that points it out if it happens
balmy portal
tes'
primal hazel
Idk why you're getting sarcastic
balmy portal
I mean
primal hazel
I'm not disagreeing with you
balmy portal
all I'm saying is perfect catches should be better explained
primal hazel
I didn't say anything else
balmy portal
sorry you got mixed in with FoxHope there who's saying it's fine they're not explained at all
primal hazel
You two just seem to think otherwise
balmy portal
I'm aware there's some messaging when they happen, but it's not called out effectively
dry ember
that's a slippery slope you're trying to lead the argument down and I completely...
Well if you think it's a false dichotomy, you can say so. No one here is trying to getcha
balmy portal
at some point man, you have to take some responsibility if your message is misunderstood 😛
primal hazel
My only point was: if it happened to you, you would notice and then wonder
Not that it shouldn't be pointed out better beforehand
turbid needle
imagine getting heated about a fishing debate
primal hazel
Hades has a lot of vagueness :|
balmy portal
FoxHope - it doesn't cost much to have a fishing rod entry in the codex or a comment from Poseidon or Zagreus about reacting faster to get better fish
dry ember
But I think fishing tooltips is unnecessary.
balmy portal
and unlike everything else in the game
primal hazel
at some point man, you have to take some responsibility if your message is misun...
How bout you learn reading comprehension
balmy portal
fishing won't just muddle through to legendary fish if you're taking it casually
primal hazel
But I think fishing tooltips is unnecessary.
It should at least say something about that in the codex
verbal marsh
Yeah, the fishing rod should just have a codex entry which hints at perfect catches. Bam done 🙂
balmy portal
How bout you learn reading comprehension<:squirtnya:472124054644457472>
At some point, if the same thing happens to you everywhere you go, it's not everyone else but it's you 😛
dry ember
FoxHope - it doesn't cost much to have a fishing rod entry in the codex or a com...
Problem is, if they put this, people would always try to catch fast
primal hazel
Sure point it out to me then
balmy portal
yes?
dry ember
Do you see a problem with this?
balmy portal
no?
primal hazel
Happened to me often enough
dry ember
There are 3 types of fishes
balmy portal
The point of fishing is to catch fast to get better fish.
dry ember
Perfect catch gets you 2 types
balmy portal
yes?
primal hazel
I'm just trying to better myself instead of shoving it on others ;D
balmy portal
and sometimes you'll bobble and get the worse one
verbal marsh
There are 3 types of fishes
It took me a long time to get the common fishes already
balmy portal
so you'll get your crappy fish eventually
verbal marsh
So.. that happens already 😛
primal hazel
Normal catch also gets you two types
dry ember
Norma catch gets you 2 types, with one type not available to perfect catch
balmy portal
yes, the mechanics are understood
I'm discussing communication of mechanics here
like hidden aspect? I understood that well enough: Keep doing runs, and I'll find them.
Legendary fish? No idea. I couldn't find anything in-game how to accomplish that.
didn't even know it was more than just "find lots of fishing points"
and I was relaxed about fishing
opal lodge
i love how the last 400 messages in #h1-builds-and-combat have been about fishing
balmy portal
so I was hitting a lot of poor catches. Because fishing is relaxing, yo
dry ember
You know what, you play the game your way.
balmy portal
Game design man.
turbid needle
Honestly, I'd be wondering if I went a hundred runs and lots of blanks in my fishing codex
dry ember
If you want fishing to be relaxing
balmy portal
I was wondering Black Lotus.
dry ember
Then sure
turbid needle
At that point I'd just look it up
balmy portal
Fishing, as a concept, is not some tense super reaction thing.
primal hazel
I'm confused that you want fishing tooltips but saying hidden weapon aspects being literally unexplained is ok
balmy portal
so the fact that it is in Hades means it should be explained so you understand
dry ember
Honestly, it does take much to Google how to do it.
primal hazel
Just because YOU happen to get them naturally
dry ember
You can say BUt GaMe DEsign
sonic mural
its literally a minor mini game that has almost no effect on your gameplay
primal hazel
Cause a lot of people here didn't
balmy portal
How do you not find them if you just do varied things?
turbid needle
There are so many things left unexplained in the game
It's not a big deal
it's fishing
turbid needle
Bruh
balmy portal
it's not intuitive.
pseudo stream
it's not a big deal, but also they're right conceptually, it's just... not that important heh
primal hazel
How do you not find them if you just do varied things?
There's people every day asking bc of the weapons
There's a pinned comment for it
balmy portal
unexplained but intuitive is very different, and most of the unexplained things make sense
sonic mural
"hey gamers, the worse you do catching fish, the better fish you get" ..?
primal hazel
At least be consistent m8
dry ember
Tool tips are nice. It would be nice if they put it in. But if they don't, I won't go as far as calling it "bad game design."
balmy portal
@primal hazel yeah but they're in a rush afaik
pseudo stream
Hades is amazing, but like virtually all games it has a ton of sub optimal design
balmy portal
and I am being consistent
dry ember
Like I said, they can't put everything in the game.
primal hazel
Oh and you're not in a rush?
half light
it's not hard to understand that the quicker your reflexes the better the fish chances?
opal lodge
i know that fishing always factors into my builds and combats
balmy portal
I wasn't getting any legendary fish
pseudo stream
iut's not hard to UNDERSTAND, but it is hard to GUESS
opal lodge
so this is quite helpful for me
half light
thats a very usual game design
primal hazel
How come you ask for tooltips for something that is a problem for you? But disregard other things as okay that don't affect you?
balmy portal
it's not hard to understand that the quicker your reflexes the better the fish c...
Inaccurate. The faster your reflexes the better the type of fish you pull up
sonic mural
yah usually doing something better leads to... (surprise surprise) better rewards
dry ember
Inaccurate. The faster your reflexes the _better the type of fish you pull up_
Straw man
sonic mural
how is that unintuitive
primal hazel
Inaccurate. The faster your reflexes the _better the type of fish you pull up_
The better the chance my man
turbid needle
??????
balmy portal
If I yank it up
sonic mural
thats how gaming works
verbal marsh
Well. It's how a fishing minigame can work
turbid needle
it's a GAME
primal hazel
Hades is also not how weapons work
pseudo stream
legendary aspects are also a problem though, but otherwise... absolutely right haha
dry ember
Lmao you are imposing your own mechanic to the game lmao
turbid needle
nothing works as it should
half light
Inaccurate. The faster your reflexes the _better the type of fish you pull up_
fish chances because even with a perfect catch your chance to get legendary is only 4.76%
primal hazel
Or do you tell a specific sentence to your broom and it suddenly changes?
sonic mural
"i have unlimited ammo" "i want SG to explain to me that i have unlimited ammo, thats not how guns work"
balmy portal
Okay boyos you do understand that games usually mirror how real life works, even if they abstract away most of the underlying complexities, right?
most of Hades actually follows that
Fishing does not
primal hazel
That's very generic man
balmy portal
It's very accurate
primal hazel
Straw man argument
dry ember
It's a spectrum or mirroring
primal hazel
With enough fantasy you can equate anything to real life
dry ember
I think the fishing mechanics is fine You need to gamify it somehow
primal hazel
Metaphoric themes ofc
But not necessarily mechanics
Game mechanics are often unlike real life for escapism and to turn it into a fun activity
half light
i am very confused with what your issue is, with the codex you see that there are 3 types of fishes in every stage? it doesnt take a genius to know that those three types are common-rare-legendary?
dry ember
what's wrong about my argument RollingStone?
False dichotomy. Mirroring can be a spectrum, not a black and white choice. That's what wrong with your argument.
sonic mural
i am very confused with what your issue is, with the codex you see that there ar...
no the issue is that he doesnt expect catching a fish faster would lead to better rewards
balmy portal
^
half light
and there's a flipton of games that just dont explain the minigames?
primal hazel
i am very confused with what your issue is, with the codex you see that there ar...
The harder problem is he's very hypocritical
turbid needle
bianary u would hate hyper light drifter lol
sonic mural
sine apparently games want you to do stuff worse and slower to get better rewards
primal hazel
Because fishing in this game affects him
sonic mural
so the concept of doing a task faster is "unintuitive"
balmy portal
sine apparently games want you to do stuff worse and slower to get better reward...
If you do fishing worse, you don't get a fish.
primal hazel
So it's important that that gets fixed
balmy portal
That's how most fishing games work, most of the time.
half light
the chance IS higher, just you can get unlucky (how everybody gets unlucky with the low low low chance of chaos-fishing points)
primal hazel
Also faster reaction=better result is common in games
balmy portal
not in fishing minigames
primal hazel
Dude we're not irl
We're in ffin hades
half light
^
dry ember
no the issue is that he doesnt expect catching a fish faster would lead to bette...
And we are arguing that he can luck into getting a legendary/perfect catch and learn from that. The same way you learn to unlock Legendary aspects.
He replied that he didn't learn by practice (getting only one perfect catch in some hundred hours) and now ranting about the mechanic being unintuitive.
balmy portal
How do I learn from it when I have no idea what I did?
verbal marsh
Also faster reaction=better result is common in games
I don't think that's common in fishing games though. Generally those are success or not success
dry ember
To me that sounds like a one person problem.
balmy portal
yes
half light
o-o
balmy portal
find me another game where a slower reaction time gives you better rewards
Better? No. The same? Yes
That's how fishing works
you either get the fish, or you don't
half light
this argument confuses me
primal hazel
I don't think that's common in fishing games though. Generally those are success...
But in games and especially mini games
Hades is not a fishing gane
dry ember
How do I learn from it when I have no idea what I did?
There is a banner... The codex lists 3 fishes...
half light
^
primal hazel
Also o googled two seconds m8
Stardew valley f.e.
half light
^
sonic mural
plus theres like a 1 second window anyways
theres incentive to do it as fast as possible
dry ember
And it's roguelite. Googling or wiki-ing is the norm tbh.
primal hazel
^
balmy portal
okay but what you're missing is
proven osprey
no google only tunnel vision
primal hazel
Rogulites at about learning
But I agree there could be something in the codex
proven osprey
that's how I unlocked aspect
balmy portal
the rest of the game doesn't require googling 😛
proven osprey
by not caring
turbid needle
Never seen a heated debate over fish
sonic mural
yah it does
balmy portal
no it doesn't
primal hazel
the rest of the game doesn't require googling 😛
A lot of the game mechanics do
sonic mural
some keepsake descriptions are incomplete
dry ember
the rest of the game doesn't require googling 😛
Well we can respectfully disagree on that.
balmy portal
I can test most of the game mechanics
turbid needle
primal hazel
God slot system, how damage calc works, how damage resistance works
balmy portal
can, and did
sonic mural
the tiers of boons aren't completely listed
balmy portal
easily tested, because they provide you numbers
primal hazel
Sack luck
sonic mural
so ur what, gonna pull a calculator out and start testing?
balmy portal
what?
primal hazel
Personal testing doesn't provide accurate numbers
balmy portal
if I care about it, yes everyone.
primal hazel
Only code does
primal hazel
If it's just from your experience there's a high chance that you can be wrong
sonic mural
"hey ok so out of 60 times, i got 22 crits, so it means that punches numbers furiously in calculator i have exactly 33% crit so crit is additive"
dry ember
But we can introduce to you a thing called wiki
sonic mural
intuitive xD
balmy portal
I mean
dry ember
that will save you from doing all the testing yourself with better accuracy
balmy portal
do you need to know that to play the game and know that getting more crit is useful?
balmy portal
more crit > less crit. Done.
primal hazel
I just hate that you seem to try to push your fishing argument and say "no other thing in hades has that problem" just because it doesn't affect you
The game doesn't tell you about so much
Dash strike interactions, how specific hammers interact with certain aspects and what I named before
sonic mural
faster reaction time > slower reaction time. Done.
balmy portal
Also stardew valley is a good fishing example, though not quite the same because you're holding your rod in the target area longer
dry ember
Point is, some people are fine with wiki-ing stuff. So saying the game doesn't require Googling is true for you, not necessarily for everyone.
primal hazel
Tell me
Which hammers work with sword dash strike and where you found it?
balmy portal
it makes sense that if you're keeping the rod on the ideal target, you get better fish
that's intuitive.
half light
everything can be learned faster via googling, favors, daedalus hammer upgrade exclusions, what laurels are and that they actually have meaning etc etc etc
but also everything gets mentioned at least once as to how to do stuff?
sonic mural
dude if u want a fishing sim so bad why not play a fishing game instead of hades
balmy portal
you guys are just completely overlooking what fishing represents.
opal lodge
this feels like bait
turbid needle
probably
balmy portal
I don't want a damn fishing sim, I just want the minigame to be intuitive the way everything else in Hades is
half light
real life =/= game
primal hazel
You are completely overlooking everything else in the game
turbid needle
dunno
dry ember
and you are self imposing your own fishing definition to the game
sonic mural
thats like saying "the gun play in hades is inaccurate, at least Call of Duty does it accurately"
turbid needle
it's such a minor thing
balmy portal
the gun play in Hades is intuitive.
primal hazel
and you are self imposing your own fishing definition to the game
^^^^^
dry ember
two can play this game
opal lodge
meanwhile i havent caught a fish in like 50 runs because of speed/heat
primal hazel
Three can only this game
opal lodge
🙂
half light
honey you get actually rewarded for being quick, for having quick reflexes in the WHOLE game
balmy portal
fishing stops the timer Bright
turbid needle
meanwhile i havent caught a fish in like 50 runs because of speed/heat
you are missing out on life
sonic mural
no recoil, unlimited clips, devs clearly screwed up with exagraph
turbid needle
u have to go out of your way to the fishing spot
opal lodge
yeah but you still have to go to the fishing point
dry ember
meanwhile i havent caught a fish in like 50 runs because of speed/heat
Not to brag but I caught uno Chaos fish
balmy portal
true
half light
thats why its logical that being quick with your reflexes in fishing follows the same principle???
verbal marsh
meanwhile i havent caught a fish in like 50 runs because of speed/heat
Oof, I hate that. I'm in a rush, is the fishing point on the way to the door? Generally nope
dry ember
gotta go fast.
balmy portal
so yeah if you're going super tight timers
turbid needle
when u catch that voidskate just right
balmy portal
thats why its logical that being quick with your reflexes in fishing follows the...
It doesn't follow any principle of fishing I know of
primal hazel
so yeah if you're going super tight timers
Which bright just said he does
sonic mural
🥱 this guy literally trolling a whole channel ima dip
opal lodge
but otherwise no
half light
It doesn't follow any principle of fishing I know of
IT FOLLOWS THE GAMES PRINCIPLE
balmy portal
because the time to catch is when something bit the lure
primal hazel
It doesn't follow any principle of fishing I know of
That's your problem man
half light
It doesn't follow any principle of fishing I know of
you get actually rewarded for being quick, for having quick reflexes in the WHOLE game
balmy portal
IT FOLLOWS THE GAMES PRINCIPLE
To be clear: That's fine, but the game doesn't communicate that in this case it's completely unintuitive.
opal lodge
if you dont want to catch fish
primal hazel
YOUR knowledge
opal lodge
dont catch fish
turbid needle
schrodingers fish. the type of fish is not known until you pull the fishing rod
balmy portal
ya'll are hilarious.
turbid needle
there i solved it
half light
To be clear: That's fine, but the game doesn't communicate that in this case it'...
again: you get actually rewarded for being quick, for having quick reflexes in the WHOLE game
balmy portal
All I asked is that the game tells you how to get legendary fish with a single line or codex entry that faster is higher quality.
balmy portal
sure thing boyo
dry ember
Please no one tells him how to get Skelly 3rd statue.
turbid needle
not a boy
balmy portal
that doesn't stop skelly
primal hazel
Wait there's a third statue?
primal hazel
But it's not said In the codex
dry ember
Like heat reward stops at 20, why bother going higher.
primal hazel
And there's no prophecy for it
half light
this convo
turbid needle
im legit laughing
half light
awww
half light
@primal hazel since your pfp is bouldy, can i give you nectar for positive vibes?
primal hazel
You believe in bouldy
Bouldy believes in you
dry ember
I should get food. French Freedom Fries or Ramen?
half light
it's gonna give you ambiguity
yes, good vibes
turbid needle
ramen
half light
ramen
dry ember
Damn ok
primal hazel
Good taste gang
turbid needle
bouldy bonus is too unintuitive. how am i supposed to know that i should give nectar to a rock
dry ember
It's decided
balmy portal
it's not really a convo so much as me saying something, and about five people all missing my point completely. But yeah, it's popcorn worthy.
half light
misty please
balmy portal
bouldy bonus is too unintuitive. how am i supposed to know that i should give ne...
Shows up in your boon list 🙂
turbid needle
what if im intentionally missing your point
balmy portal
so that's actually documented, carry on.
primal hazel
Shows up in your boon list 🙂
Not before you take it
half light
misty please my head hurts from banging it on this imaginary wall
dry ember
Misty please
verbal marsh
TBH I talked to bouldy once early on then forgot I could talk to him.
dry ember
Why would you bring Staryu vs Pikachu
turbid needle
i like bouldy, sometimes he gives me a few more seconds of silence than usual
primal hazel
Wait
turbid needle
lmfao anyways i think crush shot is really good on poseidon
half light
i am crying
dry ember
Water is countered by Electric Misty please.
sonic mural
If anything the green upgrades on mirror is unintuitive
half light
what has this channel become
dry ember
i am crying
Good
primal hazel
I have infinite knowledge
Like Bouldy
primal hazel
what has this channel become
It always was
dry ember
what has this channel become
Do you have gameplay questions?
half light
It always was
😂 i now understand why i have it muted sometimes
primal hazel
Just have me muted
Feels like 40% of when I'm around is this
dry ember
how to get gud
- Don't get hit.
- Hit the enemies back while not getting hit.
- Go fast.
primal hazel
Scheduled for Monday then
turbid needle
1) Don't get hit.
2) Hit the enemies back while not getting hit.
3) Go fast.
sonic?
primal hazel
Which sonic?
2D
3D
Or latest movie?
half light
it's thursday eveing, today aint no business day for me nomore
turbid needle
sonic had a rough transition into 3d
half light
how about scheduled tuesday?
primal hazel
I'm always buisness
turbid needle
he had a redemption arc
opal lodge
i liked the sonic movie ngl
half light
👀
opal lodge
was good content
proven osprey
<a:shroom:429029114381467659>
primal hazel
how about scheduled tuesday?
Sure.
I am free around 8-12 pm
turbid needle
ssssh
half light
Sure.
I am free around 8-12 pm
beautiful, it's a date then
primal hazel
Well we have
half light
i bring the nectar, you bring the psychological support
primal hazel
Deal
half light
nice
turbid needle
hiring someone to watch me play and scream at me when i make mistakes
cerberus when i give him nectar
primal hazel
Positivity achieved
turbid needle
actrually that would be
half light
hiring someone to watch me play and scream at me when i make mistakes
pay me one cent per mistake and i might do that
primal hazel
hiring someone to watch me play and scream at me when i make mistakes
I do the second part all the time
half light
500 mistakes LETS GO
turbid needle
poseidon is fun
dry ember
i have five dollars to my name
imagine having positive net worth
turbid needle
can i hire you
half light
tomorrow, yes, today i need to actually lay low and get down with the sickness
primal hazel
3rd day of the month
Already 1/2 of my cash gone
Am livin
turbid needle
it's 5 am and i am thinking of opening my pc and play again
primal hazel
Yes
turbid needle
rip english
dry ember
it's 5 am and i am thinking of opening my pc and play again
go slep
turbid needle
yo no hablo ingles
primal hazel
Je ne parle pas anglais
half light
it's 10pm and ima go get some sleep for the both of us @turbid needle
turbid needle
this is very offtopic quick someone drop a build question
dry ember
how do I fish?
rigid wigeon
What build is good
balmy portal
Hermes being same as Hammer, aka 2 max
Yeah, Hermes being like hammer and max 2 is so unintuitive you're not even right 😛
turbid needle
what are the best boons for boonless
primal hazel
Well at least you can actually being nectar
dry ember
it's a bit unintuitive
balmy portal
...where do I post screenshots
half light
black lotus,tell the fan you love them today if you go back to playing 👋
balmy portal
I've got 3 hermes boons right here.
primal hazel
Yeah, Hermes being like hammer and max 2 is so unintuitive you're not even right...
Put it down already
turbid needle
which sodium bomb do i make for lunch today
🍜 for ramen
🍕 for pizza
🧀 for mac and cheese
turbid needle
black lotus,tell the fan you love them today if you go back to playing 👋
always
primal hazel
All of them
turbid needle
ramenizza and cheese
dry ember
I've got 3 hermes boons right here.
post to imgur then paste link here
primal hazel
Make a pizza
Put ramen on top of it
Bake it with cheese
half light
*bake it with mac n cheese cheese
turbid needle
ima dip goodnye
balmy portal
yeah
primal hazel
Have fun getting a cardiac arrest for lunch
balmy portal
it's just Fox was claiming it was a hidden thing that it maxes at 2 like hammer.
half light
bye 
balmy portal
which didn't seem correct at all
turbid needle
hammer doesnt max at 2
turbid needle
its rng for all of them
balmy portal
...I think you know what I mean.
turbid needle
im pretty sure you cant have both 3 hammers and 3 hermes boons
balmy portal
I had 2 hammer and 3 hermes
dry ember
Hammer 2 max without Styx, Hermes 2 max without Styx
opal lodge
yeah
finite socket
It's too risky to use the Anvil if you have a good upgrade sadly
opal lodge
that's pretty normal bianary
balmy portal
wait you can get 3 hammers without anvil?
turbid needle
u can savescum the anvil
opal lodge
no you cant
dry ember
What I said isn't necessarily "wrong"
balmy portal
are you saying anvil won't spawn if you have 3 hermes?
opal lodge
styx shop will only offer anvil or hermes
dry ember
But I admit I can give more context.
turbid needle
you cant have 3 hermes before anvil
opal lodge
i doubt you can get 3 hermes before styx
balmy portal
ah
primal hazel
Anvil is traaaaash
opal lodge
you're welcome to try though
balmy portal
got it
opal lodge
shield anvils are quite fun
primal hazel
If
dry ember
My comments lack context, but it wasn't wrong, again.
primal hazel
Almost like the game doesnt tell you
verbal marsh
Can you get a dusa food drop from a gold urn?
dry ember
yes with keepsake
opal lodge
emrot asking the important questions out here
primal hazel
I think you get gold from them
turbid needle
sometimes they're blue
dry ember
nvm, that's unintuitive
verbal marsh
Sounds like I'll be running the duster my next few runs to make sure
balmy portal
nah I ignore people using it wrong
half light
they are typing
balmy portal
gonna be a lot of runs to be confident if it doesn't work, Emrot 😛
I bet gold urns can drop food though
primal hazel
nah I ignore people using it wrong
That's unintuitive
balmy portal
I mean Marmy
I wasn't gonna say anything about it until you did, so if you don't want comments... don't comment about it? 😛
primal hazel
Idk guess they're schloop
half light
i was talking to FoxHope, not trying to summon you, good to know how to tho!
mortal forge
is the 4th sword aspect good
half light
agree
balmy portal
Does anyone else feel like crush shot doesn't hit quite as wide/far as it looks like based on its animation?
4th sword aspect is fun for actually using the sword
but slow
opal lodge
it's pretty big dam
dry ember
Like what you see?
balmy portal
yeah crush shot damage is fine, my issues with it are entirely its hitbox
dry ember
Subsribe to Excalibut to learn more
opal lodge
foxhope dont do that you'll give them hope
balmy portal
and its weird stick/unstick
mortal forge
8k dps??
primal hazel
Does anyone else feel like crush shot doesn't hit quite as wide/far as it looks ...
Playing on switch?
opal lodge
arthur on 40+ heat or speedrunning is very sad
balmy portal
arthur with any forced overtime is very sad
balmy portal
it's a slow weapon
mortal forge
like sad bag or op sad
opal lodge
crush shot is sick
dry ember
8k crit. Arthur DPS is decent.
primal hazel
Just dash strike
opal lodge
oh no
balmy portal
sad bag
opal lodge
arthur can go fast
dry ember
If you want DPS there are better options.
balmy portal
arthur is a slow weapon, forced overtime makes everything faster
dry ember
But Arthur is fun
balmy portal
well
opal lodge
it's a question of whether arthur should
balmy portal
unless you dash constantly
primal hazel
it's a slow weapon
Hot take
turbid needle
damn, dad wasn't lying. that overtime can forced
balmy portal
it's not well suited for fast
opal lodge
arthur WR is like 7:30 or something
primal hazel
Dash strike
proven osprey
faster than GY
opal lodge
it can go quite fast
dry ember
Dash Strike Arthur papega
balmy portal
arthur with its base +50 hp and damage reducing special is fun to just facesmash into things with
primal hazel
Nothing is faster than tempest strike gy
proven osprey
Yeah
primal hazel
It's big dmg
balmy portal
get the duo that makes you uninterruptible and just go to town
😛
...not suitable for high heat
primal hazel
Ig you don't understand arthur
balmy portal
just fun
dry ember
like sad bag or op sad
Arthur on high heat can be a bit tough. But definitely can be done. And high heat here mean 45+.
primal hazel
Tempest GY is obliteration
Self
dry ember
For the vast majority of runs, Arthur is fun and good.
proven osprey
(kinda)
opal lodge
afaik theres only 3 45+ arthur clears
which doesnt bode well for it on high heat
but anything south of 40 ish seems ok
dry ember
builds and combat
verbal marsh
afaik theres only 3 45+ arthur clears
Dumb question -- there aren't any automated leaderboards, right? This is from people submitting their clears?
dry ember
I take it sub 32 tbh
dry ember
Dumb question -- there aren't any automated leaderboards, right? This is from pe...
Yeah, it's a community thing.
balmy portal
daily random seed leaderboards would be fun
opal lodge
this is from submissions/victory screens
mortal forge
do u guys think fists are good then? or is just range (bow/rail) just rlly better
verbal marsh
Okay cool 🙂
opal lodge
i just want them to bring back weekly challenges
balmy portal
a lot of roguelites do stuff like that, it would fit well here
opal lodge
fists are very good
verbal marsh
Fists are my favorite weapon
mortal forge
what aspect for fists then
opal lodge
talos/dem are my favorites but zag fists have their niche too
dry ember
a lot of roguelites do stuff like that, it would fit well here
agreed. but since Hades doesn't have loop, how would you score?
verbal marsh
I like magnetic, I forget which aspect that is
opal lodge
talos
gilga feels super awkward to me but also seems to be quite good in the right hands
i.e. not mine
turbid needle
I never wanna touch gilg again
balmy portal
I just have trouble getting dash specials from gilg
verbal marsh
I find Gilga fun but awkward.
balmy portal
something about their inputs really wrecks me
mortal forge
gilg seems amazing with the 400 raw dmg right
opal lodge
that actually doesnt come into it too much
proven osprey
until enemies remember they can tear you apart too
balmy portal
it can speed things up if you maim something then can go after something else
verbal marsh
Except for the Elysium boss. I always try to maim him then just walk away for the kill.
balmy portal
but yeah a lot of the time it's best to just kill it
frail schooner
ME activates maim when smh
mortal forge
im guessing shield is just bad right
opal lodge
shield is amazing
dry ember
this is not even a cop out "everything is good" answer.
balmy portal
but I don't play it much like shield
opal lodge
i have half my hours in this game on shield
primal hazel
im guessing shield is just bad right
nice one
dry ember
everything is good/can be made good.
opal lodge
specifically on beowulf and chaos
primal hazel
Except zag sword
balmy portal
like I imagine shield should block sometimes
primal hazel
Jk
dry ember
if you like something, play it.
opal lodge
it turns out being able to block all incoming damage is quite good
primal hazel
Who blocks with shield lol
balmy portal
if you don't suck at it like I do
dry ember
Except zag sword
tfw zag sword made the highest heat completion while nemesis is stuck at like 40 something.
opal lodge
nemesis was cleared on 50 heat seeded
primal hazel
tfw zag sword made the highest heat completion while nemesis is stuck at like 40...
Did you
Did you read the jk after?
opal lodge
you block on shield when you have ferocious guard/on high heat
also lets you position better vs bosses
dry ember
Did you
Did you read the jk after?
You expect me to READ?
opal lodge
you can get away with being in spots that other weapons cant
frail schooner
imagine if hades could use other spear aspects
dry ember
What are you, my professor?
frail schooner
achilles hades would be terrifying
dry ember
doesn't he already have that move though?
balmy portal
imagine.
primal hazel
I may be
mortal forge
also is it worth taking the pom pom boon from persephone for the first 3 regions
turbid needle
he does lol
dry ember
it's a budget boiling blood.
balmy portal
only on EM4
mortal forge
EM4?
turbid needle
the first pom on a boon ≈ a rarity upgrade
frail schooner
guan yu hades vibing with 50% less hp
balmy portal
also is it worth taking the pom pom boon from persephone for the first 3 regions
That or the +coins are the best for permanent bonuses
mortal forge
After every 6/5/4 Encounters, gain +1 Lv. (a random Boon grows stronger). < this one; not the rairty upgrade thing
dry ember
that's what they meant
primal hazel
Gods keepsake>gods keepsake
turbid needle
ah
primal hazel
Fite me
turbid needle
don't take it in asphodel
opal lodge
usually you take god keepsakes into the first two regions and then do whatever you want after that
turbid needle
well hmm
verbal marsh
It depends. I'd probably take the poms on 2nd and 3rd, after getting a boon that benefits from poms.
opal lodge
mom blossom is super overrated
turbid needle
the first 3 regions is like 34 rooms
frail schooner
i usually do god god acorn acorn
turbid needle
so that's 8 poms at max lrvel
opal lodge
34 rooms but probably substantially fewer encounters
turbid needle
yeah
opal lodge
unless you're avoiding midshop and story rooms
primal hazel
3rd stage akon or purse
opal lodge
or hourglass if youre running a cast build
dry ember
I mean honestly the default "optimal" or "popular" choice is
God God Acorn Acorn for casual runs
God God Hades Hades for speed runs (though this might change)
God God Purse/Charon Acorn is also viable
Now we even have
Shackle Shackle Shackle Shackle for some niche high heat situations
Or any variations of the above, really
balmy portal
I like hourglass for Styx
frail schooner
shackle god acorn acorn is also a thing
balmy portal
carry all the bonuses on to Hades
dry ember
hourglass for styx is a bit of a high roll imo
dry ember
each small chamber consumes one charge depending on chamber
turbid needle
then I pray for a 2 sack
balmy portal
but shackle doesn't do long term boosts so if you can get through tartarus fine without it, you're better off before
dry ember
and you can get 5 sack
balmy portal
yeah that's even better misty
if only 2 sack were reliable for speed run challenges
frail schooner
2 sack should be fixed tbh
turbid needle
doing both boss rooms seems to be the best for me
balmy portal
It feels fully random to me
dry ember
but shackle doesn't do long term boosts so if you can get through tartarus fine ...
Depends on the heat. On high enough, the vast majority of boons does not give a high enough damage boost to go over Shackle.
balmy portal
imo a speed run mode should be enabled post-epilogue
that does things like guarantees 2 sack
opal lodge
most people seem to be running god-> god-> acorn/hourglass/coin purse fwiw in the speedrunning community
dad keepsake is a very niche pick
same with skull earring
frail schooner
real G’s use Distant Memory
verbal marsh
Depends on the heat. On high enough, the vast majority of boons does not give a ...
How does high heat make boons less effective than shackle?
dry ember
Ok, Shackle give 100% damage boost.
frail schooner
AP and RI1
dry ember
Boons can outdo that with certain combinations (duos, legendary, 2nd tier, etc.)
Approval Process, Routine Inspection, and Underworld Customs basically make boon synergies hard to achieve.
teal juniper
oh that's terrible
verbal marsh
Gotcha. So it's mitigating the penalty from all the randomness.
turbid needle
pizza time
dry ember
Gotcha. So it's mitigating the penalty from all the randomness.
Exactly. And the nice thing is if you do find something nice. You can always swap Shackle out.
turbid needle
I hate approval process so much lmao
verbal marsh
I was definitely going shackle for a boonless run.
dry ember
Shackle recently gain popularity because of the buff, also because people are experimenting more.
turbid needle
it was honestly pretty fun
verbal marsh
Yeah. I didn't expect the hardest part of a boonless run to be making sure I was boonless
turbid needle
just gotta take fated authority
opal lodge
shackle start is also just super good
turbid needle
yeah
opal lodge
getting +100% on 2 or 3/3 core boons is insane
turbid needle
100 dmg zag cast is amazing
opal lodge
yup
balmy portal
it makes Tartarus much easier but doesn't provide a long term boost
I do like the cost/benefit on that one
a few trinkets need their cost/benefits adjusted
dry ember
yeah, if you aren't too RNG locked, just go the normal route.
turbid needle
I wasn't having trouble at all and I appreciated the extra coins from purging boons
opal lodge
yeah if you arent running RI2/AP2 i dont think it's worth perse
turbid needle
sux when you're forced to take something that basically disables one of ur attacks w no benefit
balmy portal
I don't mind underworld customs because of the coins I get, yeah
opal lodge
except maybe on hestia
turbid needle
yeeting lighting rod for like 500 coins loool
opal lodge
lightning rod is good tbh
balmy portal
like forced overtime 2 should be worth at least one more heat than it currently is
balmy portal
it's okay
turbid needle
em3 isnt bad
opal lodge
try EM3 with FO2 and HL5
balmy portal
well, yeah
turbid needle
lmao
balmy portal
but that's because FO2 is undervalued
opal lodge
theres really no way to quantify how pacts interact with each other is what im saying
for example
turbid needle
yeah
verbal marsh
em3 with FO2 is gnarly
opal lodge
for 45 heat beowulf
balmy portal
FO2 on its own murders me
turbid needle
fo2 isn't that bad on its own
opal lodge
i took TD2
because TD3 is just awful with other pacts
and took CF0
while other weapons can get away with CF2 TD3 instead
pact interaction is more important than the pure number values
turbid needle
DC2 is free heat on fists and rail but its so bad on arthur
opal lodge
JS3 CP2 DC2 EM4 TD3 is a miserable 23 heat
balmy portal
If EM3 is only 3 heat when combined with FO2, I'd say FO2 is the one that's undervalued 😛
primal hazel
Em3 is 3 heat in it's own
turbid needle
like I found a combination to get to 32 heat that was really mild
balmy portal
My point is there's still base difficulty embedded in those heats that isn't as ideally reflected as it could be 🙂
turbid needle
the +400% trap damage one should not be 1 heat lmao
frail schooner
ri4 is worth only 8 heat
turbid needle
maybe 2
frail schooner
heat prices are just not that accurate
balmy portal
the trap damage one is only really bad with EM4 imo
opal lodge
RI and HS are the most egregious offenders imo
frail schooner
never have been
balmy portal
so it's okay at 1
opal lodge
this is your personal ranking again?
i've done 40 heat all weapons and pretty much always have HS off
balmy portal
maybe the answer is heat combos 😄
opal lodge
again it interacts really poorly with some other heat modifiers
like most other pacts
balmy portal
I'm probably underestimating HS in lava?
turbid needle
I do not want to take 150 dmg from a vase
opal lodge
pacts are pretty person-person too
verbal marsh
The bombs that some enemies shoot count as traps too, don't they?
opal lodge
nah, but the fire does
balmy portal
I also feel like LC4 should have another heat bump, for reasons
primal hazel
15 dmg lava ticks lol
primal hazel
Doing my first 32 heat run rn
Turned hs on the first time
opal lodge
when you're on the edge of an island in lernie fight and the ticks start
balmy portal
I'd put FO2 at 4 heat, EM4 at 5 heat, HS at 2 heat...
opal lodge
smile
primal hazel
I'm hurting
teal juniper
HS is just, the worst
primal hazel
I run into so many traps
teal juniper
like some are theoretically worse
primal hazel
Jesus
primal hazel
More problematic than all of the other I have on rn
opal lodge
HS and HL5 were two pacts that i just bit the bullet on
turbid needle
fighting fo2 Hades is like the first time you run into one of the green pickaxe dudes in bastion
opal lodge
trueee
balmy portal
except way scarier >.>
primal hazel
Update: just got hit with a 100dmg trap arrow
Well first 32 run changed from good to shet
pseudo stream
that trap +400% is the worst heat in the game imho
turbid needle
turns getting hit by a trap from "lol oops" to causing physical pain
primal hazel
Yeah but what else could I turn up for 1 heat
opal lodge
literally anything else haha
primal hazel
I want hs to give more
pseudo stream
anything 😛
primal hazel
One shot urns lol
balmy portal
If HS didn't affect pots, I'd consider it
primal hazel
Dmg to lv2, healing?
balmy portal
If it didn't affect lava too it would probably be worth taking for only 1 😛
primal hazel
HS does affect pots
pseudo stream
dmg to 2 is probably better for me
balmy portal
so HS clearly just needs multiple tiers
primal hazel
Yeah hs should have tiers
balmy portal
like tier 1 HS is traps excluding lava/pots, tier 2 adds lava, tier 3 adds pots
primal hazel
Also is SD worth it at 32?
I'm still debating with myself
balmy portal
...okay maybe I'm missing something but what is SD
dry ember
but you will also find people who advocare for it