you could also just force them both in aspho/elysium but getting mirage shot early is nice
#h1-builds-and-combat
opal lodge
weak violet
So imma just guess ill just go for a athena or poseidon dash
opal lodge
it's kind of funny but zeus dash is actually very good
same with drunken dash since it now unlocks blackout
spiral tree
aspect of chaos is insane
weak violet
ikr
spiral tree
ares special alone makes the game a joke
but ok after ares special then what boons?
dash?
cast?
weak violet
Huh, i usually run dio special and either ares or demeter attack for privileged status
Honestly, idk for cast so ill just say any cast that gives off a status like aphro or zeus
opal lodge
eh, nothing really beats zeus special on chaos
i used to run curse of pain chaos but zeus special is just better
weak violet
You could most likely go for divine dash from athena
So, what do i put artemis on, attack or special?
Might put poseidon on attack
weak violet
Yeah
opal lodge
if you do tempest strike beowulf you will be very sad
tempest strike in general is quite bad
on beowulf it's especially bad because your casts wont connect anymore
weak violet
so special 
vocal thunder
still vigil
aphro was always godly
proven osprey
spiral tree
not sure if zeus special is better than ares on chaos
opal lodge
yeah at 0 heat im not sure in terms of dps
going fast zeus is definitely the way
high heat zeus tends to be better too
the doom delay is quite noticeable
prime plover
Okay I'm small brain, what boon is it that restores HP over time if you have no rez's left
I'm tryna reference it for a friend as to how to get it
cosmic hornet
stubborn roots? i think
prime plover
And that's.... Demeter.... and...
cosmic hornet
athena
prime plover
Thank youuuu
prime plover
I know, but I have a friend who swears that Stubborn Defiance is useless and Death Defiance is king
prime plover
I must show him the light
proven osprey
Yeah
prime plover
SD carries that, plus my first run was won by SD + Skelly
proven osprey
Well if it suits you
prime plover
It's a pretty big net. Plus if you get Athena's rez boosting boons, that helps significantly
Add in Patroclus and you basically have reusable DD
proven osprey
Yeah I can see that
But Pat refreshes DD too
And usually people struggle at third and final boss
DD helps a lot
prime plover
Yeh
cosmic hornet
btw i tried experimenting with stubborn roots
it seems like it doesn't work if you have skelly/athena bonus rez stocked
prime plover
Yeah, I only started getting it afterward
proven osprey
You gotta be able to stall too
prime plover
Also there are sometimes where the game has like, a stopping point where it might go to a character's dialogue (specifically Hades second phase start) where it seems to like, stop refilling HP
which is annoyiiiing
turbid needle
You can get Stubborn Roots with SD?
proven osprey
Yeah
cosmic hornet
you can
turbid needle
Oh, that's cool
proven osprey
It only works in fights tho
turbid needle
I wouldn't fish for it but it would be nice
cosmic hornet
but you need to have no rez for it to activate
so no athena cheat
prime plover
yknow whats nicer
cosmic hornet
with no TD i guess you can just leave one enemy while charging your health
prime plover
little thing called
Unhealthy Fixation
proven osprey
I don't see the point
turbid needle
not sure what unhealthy fixation is
prime plover
all Weak boons have 15% chance to cause Charm
prime plover
it basically guarantees the run if you have Weak on attack
turbid needle
I've only used SD a couple times so far
prime plover
since charm makes them stand around and do nothing most of the time
cosmic hornet
wait is this 4s reduced on bosses or not?
turbid needle
when i had LC4 on
cosmic hornet
15% sounds like a lot for stuff like chiron or rails
proven osprey
Better on fast weapons indeed
cosmic hornet
oh
lmao imma try hidden rail with this
proven osprey
Otherwise, you go for Aphro call with Smoldering air
prime plover
wait question, does hidden rail get the hammer that stops reload
cosmic hornet
not quite
proven osprey
It's not the same one
proven osprey
But Eternal chamber exists
prime plover
Ah.... laser rifle from halo
cosmic hornet
so for the purpose of this build its actually better
prime plover
i was wondering that because my damage wasn't scaling higher with Hermes attack up boon, it was really just making me reload more
which was bad
cosmic hornet
wait shouldn't it scale up faster?
but you also reload fater
prime plover
no reloads felt same speed
cosmic hornet
huh that's weird
then again i've only used that rail like
twice
solid grail
Hey everyone I was wondering if anyone had any tips for doing aspect of Beowulf builds?
devout ether
Splash Dash only run
still wraith
Hey everyone I was wondering if anyone had any tips for doing aspect of Beowulf ...
For aspect of Beowulf I like Artemis cast with it although any cast that just adds a damage percentage to cast should work imo
I'd just avoid casts where it takes a while to get bloodstone back like trippy shot or slicing shot
opal lodge
trippy/passion flare is usually the way
trippy flare + stygian or passion flare + infernal soul is good
have fun with it though
doesnt really matter unless you're trying to go fast/do high heat
devout ether
I totally brainfarted and read beowulf as gilgamesh, whoops
opal lodge
blade dash is actually quite good on gilga no memes
weak violet
Yo, is a heart rend build good for Gilga?
weak violet
Hm, well what would you say would be a good build for it?
opal lodge
heart rend is pretty good actually
ME is better but that's a pretty boring answer
splash dash + zeus attack used to be good
not sure how it is with the sea storm nerf
spiral tree
Someone said Zeus special was better than ares on aspect of chaos
I highly disagree
Does a lot less damage
woven delta
...so is Guan Yu special basically just the normal spear special with exploding launcher built into it
Because I'm messing around with it more and I'm starting to feel like that's the case
opal lodge
i said it
again
i like curse of pain chaos shield
it's a fine alternative to zeus
but it's not zeus special
i've done both on 40 heat though so i don't think it's bad by any means
zeus just requires a lot less work to get going
rustic coral
Hey I can’t open client, what is new % on shackle at highest level?
opal lodge
100%
opal lodge
15%
spiral tree
@opal lodge less work?
opal lodge
zeus usually goes faster in tartarus from what i've found
you may have a different experience
steep lark
I'm curious what is the best athena weapon I need to get her up some but I don't like her on bow so what weapon do you feel she works best on?
woven delta
The various melee weapons
Sword, spear, and fists specifically (and to a lesser degree, shield)
Mainly because one of her boons makes it so that any abilities that can deflect can also make the more vulnerable to backstab damage
And in general, it's easier to take advantage of that on those particular weapons over the bow and rail
cosmic hornet
is this for levelling up her keepsake?
you always want athena dash no matter what your build is.
but the weapon that benefit the most from athena is probably the fists
river wing
athena is good on everything
cosmic hornet
i'm practically begging for athena in all of my runs lol
steep lark
I mean theres just other gods I'd rather use on my runs and typically ignore athena lol
river wing
at higher heats athena becomes a crutch
weak violet
Y’all know a good build for Lucifer? Pretty much the last hidden aspect i need to finish a run
woven delta
Zeus attack
deep salmon
i still don't get how would i play secret shield
turbid needle
Suicide until you spawn into Charge Flight, take either Heartbreak or Deadly Flourish.
opal lodge
that mightve been the case when charged flight was +400% damage
now just slap trippy flare/passion flare on that thing and fly
ornate prawn
a friend on another server is saying theseus and asterius get additional buffs when their partner is killed, on top of the half-health additional moveset
is this accurate
weak violet
Idk, i remember one time where theseus did a move that had a similar design to when hade’s fireball skulls explode
turbid needle
Nah, it's still super strong at only +200%.
cunning urchin
Asterius is enraged when you kill Theseus, so there is less delay between his attacks. I think Theseus doesn't care if Asterius dies, though.
opal lodge
sure, but that's not the most effective way to play beowulf unless you dont have access to cast builds (e.g. AP2/RI pacts)
deep salmon
wait, is charged shot compatible with secret shield?
turbid needle
It does!
turbid needle
The Hidden Aspects are something other devs would put in as DLC, what a bunch of legends at SGG.
river wing
best build for beowulf is hunting blades.
Best at disappointing
opal lodge
you can get charged shot
turbid needle
I understand why, but I wish Blade Rifts were back to ticking 10x per second.
cunning urchin
Charged Flight if you do RI3+, otherwise Passion Flare or Trippy Flare. @opal lodge has played Beowulf a lot more than me this patch.
cunning urchin
Me and Beowulf are not on speaking terms after it's been failing me miserably at 32 mirrorless with TD3.
Stygian Soul for Trippy Flare. Infernal Soul for any other cast.
deep salmon
i see
cunning urchin
On Beowulf.
@turbid needle something about your name looks like a fake, but I can't put my finger on it.
Must be my imagination.
turbid needle
I think I asked for a G O O S E ending card at one point but it never happened.
woven delta
Anything that directly increases the damage of it
i.e. Zeus, Ares, and Dio
Though Zeus is definitely the best of them
cunning urchin
I wouldn't say definitely.
woven delta
I'd say you could make a case for it being so at least
turbid needle
Merciful End is clunkier but it still exists.
cunning urchin
Thunder Flourish is a candidate, sure.
woven delta
Highest direct damage boost without any catches (Ares' having a delay before going off, Dio needing to be stacked a few times to get there), plus bolts can hit multiple enemies at once
Plus Jolted and Splitting Bolt as well
cunning urchin
Drunken Flourish and Curse of Pain both do more damage in a single hit.
Drunken Flourish can hit the same target multiple times.
Drunken Flourish has Bad Influence.
opal lodge
epic bad influence is one of the most weirdly balanced boons in the game
cunning urchin
And Numbing Sensation has great utility.
spiral tree
zeus special is NOT better than ares special on chaos
opal lodge
why is it like 99% base
spiral tree
zeus special takes so much longer to kill with
I may be using it wrong tho
also doom helps with priviledged status
cunning urchin
It's 90–100% at Epic.
opal lodge
zeus special can go fast
i'll race 
90-100 is still insane
that's just rush delivery lmao
woven delta
Jolted and Doom both end pretty fast, so it's a bit hard to take advantage of them for Priviledged Status
Outside Cold Fusion and Curse of Longing, anyways
turbid needle
Doom feeds half of PS itself.
woven delta
Though even then Curse of Longing requires you to apply a weak effect first for Doom to stay on longer
spiral tree
hangover atk+ares special on chaos is great
turbid needle
You're not laying Doom and using it to buff something else.
opal lodge
PS stinky
spiral tree
low tolerance>
opal lodge
curse of longing is fine
cunning urchin
that's just rush delivery lmao
It's a lot of fun with Dionysus' Aid and Smoldering Air.
spiral tree
but who really saying zeus special is BETTER than ares special?
opal lodge
i am
spiral tree
I just don't get it lol
I am trying
but it just takes significantly longer for me to clear rooms with it
It could be me tho
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Flourish is best, anyway.
spiral tree
how so?
mossy light
secret shield? just load it with casts and charge in?
turbid needle
What weapon are we talking about
mossy light
whoops
spiral tree
how is heartbreak best on chaos shield?
when chaos shield is played properly you shouldn't be taking any damage right?
turbid needle
Pretty sure Zeus special on Chaos shield is optimal for rooms, and enough boss DPS
cunning urchin
It's from Lady Aphrodite, and it's pink. 💗
turbid needle
But Chaos Shield isn't exactly known for boss damage anyways soooo
spiral tree
it's good damage but so safe
cunning urchin
And she has the best % modifier, so shotgunning enemies actually works.
spiral tree
can basically tank anything
spiral tree
this whole block, rush, special, dash away, repeat thing is soooo safe lol
cunning urchin
You can also get Zeus' Aid and Smoldering Air easily.
spiral tree
i was dying a lot at first tho
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike for Heart Rend.
spiral tree
before I realized spamming rush n special is not ideal lol
need to mitigate how vulnerable you are after shield throw with dashing away
cunning urchin
You can use the Bull Rush to "dash" away instead of just to attack fyi. 
turbid needle
Bull Rush is so dang versatile
opal lodge
I actually want to test out Artemis special on Chaos shield
you think it's any good? maybe with shotgunning?
opal lodge
i'd be pretty worried about DC2 JS3 tbh
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Flourish is better.
opal lodge
should we migrate channels lol
cunning urchin
I'd be worried about JS3 DC2 with Chaos Aspect either way lol.
turbid needle
^
JS3, specifically
Elysium isn't too kind to Chaos aspect
TL;DR : Zeus/Aphrodite special, Artemis Attack. Aphrodite does the raw damage and duos better, Zeus does the room clears better
This should be the basis of Chaos aspect runs
cunning urchin
I feel like that's what I said. 
The basis of every build should be a Lady Aphrodite boon.
turbid needle
Let's not get carried away here
cunning urchin
If it doesn't work, it's the aspect's fault, and you shouldn't play that aspect.
Literally how I play the game.
opal lodge
zagreoose is wondering why zeus special is better than curse of pain
turbid needle
Am I?
turbid needle
Pulverizing Blow
turbid needle
Dashing Flight is ok too
spiral tree
lol
cunning urchin
Dashing Wallop.
turbid needle
But Pulverizing Blow is just a LOT of damage
cunning urchin
(Don't listen to me.)
turbid needle
^
opal lodge
i think dashing flight because return speed is somewhat important
but tbh they're all a bit meh on chaos
spiral tree
yeah
opal lodge
i like sudden/mino/charged shot on chaos shield
turbid needle
I think Pulverizing Blow is still a fantastic option
spiral tree
I needed explosive return ot the charged thingy
opal lodge
explosive return is also great
spiral tree
ok dashing flight it is
turbid needle
Can't get Charged Flight on Chaos.
Charged Flight is whatever
Wait, you can't ?
lol
opal lodge
i might be a bit too used to dash attacking from beowulf
so maybe im undervaluing pulverizing
turbid needle
You definitely are
You basically attack almost as fast as the fists without Beo
When Pulverizing Blow hits the table
It's insane
Basically the non-beo Double Edge
or Twin Shot
or Flurry Jab
It's almost Twin Flurry Shot.
Like, in a single Hammer.
Yeah
If you get an Attack speed up it's a buzzsaw.
My DPS on Zeus shield with Shackles goes from 300-ish to 500-ish with it
On Zag Shield it's mandatory too
On Chaos Shield, if you get a decent attack rolling, it's nice to throw in after the Bullrush->Special routine
spiral tree
I rarely use attack with chaos shield lol
by the time I can use it the bull rush is ready again
turbid needle
... Which you need to attack or dash attack to begin the BullRush
While I can see it not being top priority for Chaos Shield, I can still see it being one of the better hammers
cunning urchin
My DPS on Zeus shield with Shackles goes from 300-ish to 500-ish with it
Do you use a DPS counter? I know somebody was working on one.
spiral tree
dashing flight works MID dash
spiral tree
so if I throw special shields out and then dash they get faster before returning to me
thats actually really cool
turbid needle
spiral tree
ok dashing flight is better than I thought just because of that
and zeus special is so much better when I get jolted boon too
hoary slate
You dash-special for dashing flight to work
cunning urchin
Does it show both theoretical DPS and actual DPS corrected for overkill damage, DC hearts, etc.?
spiral tree
I know @hoary slate I am just saying the opposite works too lol
special>dash>shields become faster XD
also it feels dashign flight makes shields throw farther out
hoary slate
Oh okay I don't really bother throwing my shield away so yeah
spiral tree
what?
then how do you play chaos?
the whole point is to throw the shields and run until you can repeat right?
turbid needle
Playing shield without special, legit better off using the Zag aspect
cunning urchin
More speed means more momentum, so it should travel farther.
hoary slate
I tried it once and decided that I have too much muscle-memory with Zag-shield, so I went back to that
cunning urchin
I guess.
turbid needle
I mean, that's kinda fair
But yeah, gotta get used to the Bullrush -> Special routine for Chaos to be effective
Don't want to talk about the mess that is Zeus aspect, for DPS optimization lol
opal lodge
Does it show both theoretical DPS and actual DPS corrected for overkill damage, ...
that's a good question, i'm not actually sure
i've only seen him demo it on stream
i know it breaks it down according to damage source
adjusting for overkill would be good
river wing
i'd almost always take return
cunning urchin
Everyone always asks which Daedalus. No one asks how is Daedalus.
turbid needle
Probably not too well, considering we always find his hammers laying about
spiral tree
HE NOT EVEN IN THE GAME
SHHHH
lol
until he gets DLC consideration he doesn't deserve ours!
cunning urchin
Explosive Return stuns enemies when you catch your shield.
opal lodge
i think the game says
daedalus disappeared
after doing housework for lord hades
explosive return is amazing
turbid needle
AoE's also deceptively large
Almost as big, if not the same, as the Sword's special
cunning urchin
Daedalus makes his Explosive Return! It's . . . a hammer upgrade!
spiral tree
hades in smash...
cunning urchin
Smash in Hades.
spiral tree
damn
just gettng GODLY drops here
smoldering air, vengeful mood, second wind EPIC, etc
spiral tree
LOL
AND EPIC BILLOWING STRENGTH
WTH is going on
damn melted dad in like a minute
rare tusk
God I love Blizzard Shot
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdoredOffensiveHoki-mobile.mp4
cunning urchin
Nice!
tardy geyser
could someone help me calculate the source of my damage?
how do i upload an image here
opal lodge
upload to another site and paste it here
tardy geyser
opal lodge
what's the question?
tardy geyser
i do 273 base, which makes sense with aspect of poseidon
i do 346 no backstab, both debuffs, which makes sense with aspect and privileged status,
but i cant figure out how i do 954 backstab
with both debuffs
opal lodge
pc or switch?
tardy geyser
PC
opal lodge
crits?
tardy geyser
no crit
untold vortex
blinding flash being active most likely
opal lodge
that seems about right tbh
tardy geyser
this is just cast damage btw
tardy geyser
yeah its just that the math doesnt work out
opal lodge
and the additional +35% from parting shot
rare tusk
222% backstab bonus from parting, mirror, chaos and exposed
untold vortex
so the maths works out to be 273*(1+2.22)
opal lodge
i wasnt sure if the poseidon bonus was additive tbh
tardy geyser
but thats 879 and not accounting privileged status, and shouldnt the damage buffs be additive with the backstab bonuses?
opal lodge
thanks aggy
untold vortex
I'm not sure if it's additive either, I assume it is
opal lodge
let me check with priv status
tardy geyser
182 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.4 + 2.22) = 750
tardy geyser
yes i am pretty confused
opal lodge
so the poseidon cast bonus is to the base damage?
tardy geyser
it has to be additive because no backstab is 346 = 182 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.4)
the poseidon aspect
frail schooner
P r i v a l e d g e d
opal lodge
damage calc is weird
spiral tree
Ok
Zeus is amazing with chaos
But only if I get the jolt boon
Otherwise base ares is better IMO
opal lodge
tbh double strike is more important than jolted
opal lodge
it has to be additive because no backstab is 346 = 182 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.4)
yeah elp your math seems right
the damage number seems off
only thing i can think of
are you sure youre on version 1.37
actually jk thats an unpommed blinding flash
hmm
tardy geyser
yes, says 1.37051 in the client
i wanted to know how backstab buffs would interact with parting shot and ended up more confused
thanks for hearing me out though
opal lodge
so the way parting shot works is that it should just apply all those bonuses additively to your cast, and then add 35%
i'd maybe put it in tech support since this parting shot was recently changed
and the fix might not be applying the bonuses as intended
looks like theres some multiplicative nonsense somewhere in there
rare kayak
man offscreen lasers are brutal
languid surge
Is Demeter fist’s special with Ares boon (on special) a good interaction? As in, instant multiple doom stacks
rare kayak
thought i was safe and i was not
doom only stacks once
so no, it isnt
youd prefer a percentage based boon
languid surge
But there is a boon that says that multiple application of doom do more damage D:
rare kayak
thats not poseidon, since im pretty sure poseidon knocks away on the first hit and doesnt apply the rest
proven osprey
yeah but it's not good
rare kayak
the extra application of doom stacks is not good on demeter special
hell im not even sure if its good on fist attack, although i havent tried it
proven osprey
It's ok on Chiron I believe, but more fun than anything
rare kayak
maybe decent on a curse of longing build on fists with ares attack and pash dash?
proven osprey
the thing is you'll always want ME if you run doom
rare kayak
also, whoever coded the running away ai for archers
turn on your location
i just wanna talk
rare kayak
yeah or they could leech valuable time from me by playing ring around the rosie
ive been using antos lately
i find its pretty decent since you basically swap out the meg use on hydra for an antos use on meg
which helps me with td a lot
and then i died because dad used lasers off screen and i thought i was in cover and i wasnt
proven osprey
I like it
OS the sneak, kills furies if needed
good job vs styx bosses too
a bit more random vs Hades tho
cunning urchin
turn on your location
Joke's on you, they have the same AI. You'll never catch 'em.
rare kayak
aw son of a
yeah i had a problem with antos vs the butterfly ball lol
they chose to hit two random droplets isntead of the big ball
cunning urchin
You can get them to hit for sure at least once if you summon immediately when you enter the Soulcatcher chamber.
tall smelt
Hi! Any tips on how to play melee? I feel like bow and railgun (mostly railgun) are way easier to beat the game with
Maybe I'm choosing some wrong hammer upgrades or boons
but it feels like melee weapons are not enough rewarding for the risk of taking dmg
cunning urchin
Divine Dash helps a lot.
tall smelt
hmm
rare kayak
Hi! Any tips on how to play melee? I feel like bow and railgun (mostly railgun) ...
well first you gotta learn how to wavedash and lcancel...
tall smelt
jeez I can't post screenshots here?
cunning urchin
You can link screenshots from something like imgur.
tall smelt
so that's basically what I have right now
I'm about to go fight hades
it's Sword
even do I have duo boons and legendaries
I feel weak as heck
turbid needle
which sword is that
proven osprey
It's like you went shopping and bought everything
tall smelt
it's just what I got :/
proven osprey
Yeah
tall smelt
I wanted to do something 'special' focused cuz I got special epic and hammer upgrade
and then I got so many random things
turbid needle
since the stones don't lodge
fossil compass
damage reduction is multiplicative, not additive right?
so you can't reach 100% DR?
proven osprey
Yeah
fossil compass
thanks, very cool
maiden wraith
for tight deadline, is hades part of the styx region?
if so, with td1, you have 36 minutes to escape right?
turbid needle
yes
gray shore
damage reduction is multiplicative, not additive right?
holy moly if you could additive DR, your EHP would explode so quickly
cosmic hornet
i just charmed a beyblading FO2 asterius while thesius is close by
its the best damn thing i've ever seen in this game
cunning urchin
It's a lot of fun lol.
hollow knot
guys i gave 3 titan blood to aspect of achilleus and 2 titan blood to aspect of hades, now, what should i do the open the last one. I mean i cant talk to achilleus if i need to do this...
half crater
you need to ||unlock 5 different alternate aspects (of any combination of weapons) before you can get 4th spear||
proven osprey
nah
half crater
||the “invest 5 blood” rule is for all 4th weapons except the spear||
proven osprey
wat
proven osprey
Pretty sure you have to invest 5 blood, reach Hades, get the line from Achilles
hollow knot
Oh guys i talked to achilleus
i didnt see that sorry
what should i do now?
is it opened?
proven osprey
interesting
I don't remember
Achilles will give you the waking line
but there is a pool
half crater
i don’t remember either lol but the pins should be accurate
proven osprey
so might have to try few times
proven osprey
i don’t remember either lol but the pins should be accurate
sure
hollow knot
it says
||Talk to Achilles (with any weapon equipped) until he gives you the waking-phrase
Equip the Spear at the House and then interact with its placeholder to reveal the Aspect of Guan Yu||
i talked to him
but how to get that phrase
proven osprey
random within his pool
half crater
yeah did you ||unlock 5 aspects yet tho||
proven osprey
may have to exhaust it
half crater
if you have it’s just rng yeah
hollow knot
yeah did you ||unlock 5 aspects yet tho||
yes i am sure
half crater
ah fair enough
hollow knot
okay now i have to play and wait for its to come then
half crater
pretty much
hollow knot
thank you guys so much
rare kayak
@turbid needle dio cast on pos sword is still viable since pos sword gives a pretty hefty cast bonus and dio cast has fatty base damage
turbid needle
seems like a bit of a waste of the special dislodge + exit wounds potential
not to mention mirage shot
rare kayak
thats true yeah
if i build dio cast on pos i usually try to go for it from the start
since i prefer to run stygian soul on dio cast runs
turbid needle
same
vast dew
What is the strongest weapon currently?
dry ember
depends on your purpose playing the game.
For casual runs, weapon doesn't matter. Whichever one you have fun with is best.
gloomy zenith
in terms of how fast you can beat the game it’s gun
but all weapons are good
but gun is best for speedruns
balmy portal
I feel like gun is too safe for its strength :/
the melee weapons need a bit more oomph for having to get in close
river wing
:B the drawback of gun is that it doesn't stunlock on attacking
sword/spear does feel al littke oomph lacking. fist is nice though. wouldn't say it's a melee problem
balmy portal
don't need to stunlock if you're not right next to the target
and bosses don't stunlock anyway
well, no; it's really not a melee problem. Bow has draw time to offset its range
it's that the gun doesn't have charge up time and does comparable damage to melee options
river wing
it's more like.. sword's combo just sucks.
turbid needle
Just wanna ask something but what’s some good combat tips to beat the game?
river wing
dash attack is good. but that makes the weapon very dangerous
balmy portal
sword and spear are both really dash attack heavy, which ... I dislike dash attacking
zxgreus - cast builds.
Dionysis or Demeter casts
river wing
spear is just lacking until you get a good hammer. (zag at least, hades/achilis has it's +150%)
balmy portal
if Dionysis, I recommend going for Demeter duo; if Demeter, go for Artemis
and pump them with poms
river wing
and you need to rng a good hammer :B
balmy portal
the problem I have with sword/spear are how hammer reliant they are and they're still outclassed
zxgreus - otherwise it's just dodging, etc., but using the cast builds lets you fight at range and gives you experience killing things while learning their attacks, instead of dying constantly while learning their attacks 😛
then you can transition to more up close and personal as you get more comfortable
river wing
hammer is just a very odd design. I think there's room for improvement there.
Right now hammers are wanted for an increase in base dps. which is...
river wing
a playstyle change without drastically increasing the base dps will be cool. make the base weapon more reasonable
balmy portal
for gun, I don't want shots that ricochet if I can get shots that pierce and do +50% damage versus armor
I can hit more targets more reliably with piercing PLUS they go through blocking enemies
ricochet isn't even particularly reliable
river wing
hammers are mostly.
Does it increase base dps -----yes----> good hammer
|
|
-----no----> meh hammer
river wing
some exceptions ofc. like arthur's unique hammer is good but doesn't do damage
balmy portal
and then fiddle with attacks on the side
hazard zone is an interesting one, the increased flight time can be a real drawback
balmy portal
though it likes the double strike dash or shadow slash a lot
and the rest are junk for it
turbid needle
yep
balmy portal
the unique one is okay obviously 😛
turbid needle
greater consecration and shadow slash are my go tos
balmy portal
I really enjoy arthur sword
it finally has the range to not feel like a second class weapon
river wing
lol
balmy portal
that's just "don't use the weapon" 😛
turbid needle
nemesis is my favorite
balmy portal
but yes
I think the spear/shield specials could both use help, as ranged options
primarily how they wreck your normal attacks?
turbid needle
I was gonna try a boonless run with nem and I got double edge in the very first room
it was meant to be
balmy portal
I think that's where gun really pulls ahead in that you can launch its special and carry on doing everything else you want while the special is in flight
balmy portal
none of the other weapons except shield zeus can
turbid needle
exploding launcher :D
balmy portal
yeah
river wing
but that's a hammer...
balmy portal
give me exploding launcher every time, and I'm okay with spear special
it's so hard to find 😦
turbid needle
that's just GY
river wing
and that's basically base dps increase yet again
balmy portal
it's not just base dps
it's a huge QoL improvement and increased dps per throw
not having to call back the weapon before you can attack chain
aoe damage
river wing
yea. imagine if the base throw has the same dps as exploding launcher though.
turbid needle
quick spin hades makes spear bearable
balmy portal
that's another hammer
river wing
although I do think having to press another btn to get your spear back is kinda wierd
can't even buffer the input
turbid needle
Hades aspect on its own isn't that bad
balmy portal
too many fake targets that can't actually be hit that it tries to bounce to
river wing
it's fun on zag aspect imo
balmy portal
I had it go so bad
turbid needle
I never wanna use zag spear again
balmy portal
it would keep shooting off to corners of the room
balmy portal
and furies with EM1 are a nightmare if you try to use bouncing spear
river wing
:B
balmy portal
it just endlessly bounces at targets it can't reach
turbid needle
it felt like I was doing no damage at all
balmy portal
like Tisiphone in the last room I'd throw it and it literally bounced 6 times back and forth from one corner to the other trying to hit the others
river wing
the special breaking up your attack like shield is kinda weird too.
Like rail does special and shoots
balmy portal
before I could get my damn spear back
turbid needle
so Hades aspect helps w that
river wing
Spear does special and.. wait?
balmy portal
yep
that's why launcher is so great for spear
because it makes you not have to wait
I'd run launcher even if it didn't increase base damage, just for the aoe and the not waiting
turbid needle
I think default spear special isn't that bad honestly
u just gotta
use it at max range
turbid needle
u should use spear at max range anyways
river wing
flurry jab/serratedpoint/exploding/charged skewer.
turbid needle
isn't that the whole point of a spear
river wing
the damage is still really bad regardless of range
it's a numbers problem, not positioning
gray shore
Step 1: Avoid zag spear
Step 2: profit
river wing
clearly not bias towards achilles
gray shore
I mean
river wing
😛
river wing
I wonder how the spear wil be without the 25% range
turbid needle
I need to try zeus shield
river wing
the range makes the speed not feel any faster
cause it travels a longer distance
I really like "fun" hammers. like dash nova
but it feels like such a waste to pick them over actually useful stuff.
gray shore
the range makes the speed not feel any faster
I mean its flight time is the exact same, right
balmy portal
achilles spear works great at multiplying cast damage
better than any spear damage you'll get
gray shore
realistically speaking the only real boon of zag spear is the 25% damage and I suppose 25% range
river wing
I mean its flight time is the exact same, right
I think so? I don't know. it's 50% more distance with the range, since back and forth
wait it isn't. bad math
gray shore
Flight time= (Distance x Modifier) / (Speed x Modifier)
modifier cancels from top and bottom
balmy portal
imo
balmy portal
zag spear is only worth taking if you luck into an early launcher hammer.
otherwise you have regrets
river wing
you're right
:C Can i have fast without increased flight time
aka decreased flight time
lmao
gray shore
would need a higher scaling on speed over range
e.g. 50% speed, 25% range
sounds reasonable
river wing
yea. or something. 😐
vast dew
What is the best sword aspect atm?
gray shore
tbf I wouldn't be against 50% damage/25% range/ 50% speed
river wing
achillis at lower heats can build for anything. it's really fun. Even crit spin builds. hitting 4 digits with spins are fun
gray shore
What is the best sword aspect atm?
Poseidon or Hidden I guess, but in what context?
river wing
50% damage is still really low tho.
vast dew
Just generally.
gray shore
better than 25 
river wing
any % damage is just... low unless you get like hades/achilles +150% numbers
turbid needle
zag shield....
gray shore
zag shield is at least a shield
gray shore
Just generally.
Hidden is strong but hard to use, Poseidon is well rounded for casts but needs blood investment, Nemesis is for zooming through the game, Zag sword is ?
river wing
Zag sword is just nem but worse. kinda
vast dew
Thank you.
river wing
Yes ^^^
grim vessel
hidden is my favorite sword by far
vast dew
I have all the unlocks, and I'm trying to decide which aspect I should max right now.
balmy portal
all the others I just try to cast
tardy swan
zag sword is really stupid if you can get more speed and the speed = attack buff from hermes. That's very conditional though. 
river wing
hidden suffers at high high heat.
balmy portal
I have all the unlocks, and I'm trying to decide which aspect I should max right...
what weapon do you want/playstyle do you like?
well yeah
turbid needle
zag sword with epic swift strike and flurry slash
river wing
but anything 30 and below is fine
balmy portal
anything where you take FO and increased damage
weak violet
Hmm, i might start using the spear, you giys know a good build for hades?
balmy portal
hidden sword is gonna suffer
vast dew
I'm dashing quite frequently and my playstyle is dodging and going up at their faces.
turbid needle
I like artemis attack on hades
gray shore
I'm dashing quite frequently and my playstyle is dodging and going up at their f...
Everyone dashes "quite frequently" fyi
balmy portal
I like gloves with the charged cutter aspect for getting in their face
vast dew
Well, dash-attack, sorry
balmy portal
punchpunchpunch UPPERCUT OF DEATH
turbid needle
oh you'll love nemesis then
vast dew
I'm spamming dash-attacks.
gray shore
dash-strike is literally the bread and butter of this gatme
grim vessel
is there any reason to use zag rather than others?
turbid needle
no
gray shore
so you're definitely on the right track
balmy portal
I suck at chaining dash-strikes, to be clear.
weak violet
Hm, i might go for a poseidon special just for range or zeus
vast dew
What is Nemesis?
turbid needle
second sword aspect
gray shore
Crit chance after special
weak violet
Nemesis is a spect for the sword
vast dew
Ah, that one
turbid needle
nemesis is pretty good at lv 1 too
upgrading it to lv 2 is the most bang for your buck
grim vessel
what do you think about hidden spear?
gray shore
what do you think about hidden spear?
It's viable but hard to use
balmy portal
hidden spear needs upgrading unless you're a masochist
gray shore
nemesis is pretty good at lv 1 too
just get hunter's mark and go to town lul
turbid needle
ikr
grim vessel
yeah i tried it few times, and i agree
turbid needle
with arte attack u basically have a 100% crit chance
weak violet
So what should i put for the special on hades?
turbid needle
anything tbh
weak violet
Cuz ill most likely just go for divine dash and whatever cast
gray shore
Hades doesn't really use special much
turbid needle
doom seems like it'd be alright
I really like doom on shield special bc it does a whopping 15 damage on its own
weak violet
Alrighty, gracias amigo
gray shore
Good luck climbing
turbid needle
arte special chiron 
weak violet
Hera also works well with Dio cast but i think people prefer Beowulf more
turbid needle
big beo fan here
tardy swan
Question about daedalus hammers - do some possible upgrades have requirements?
I need like one last upgrade for most of my weapons to complete the prophicies but I never seem to get them.
turbid needle
some of them are mutually exclusive
tardy swan
Might just be bad luck though.
weak violet
Ill probably start farming some more titan blood to try out achilles next
tardy swan
Is there an overview which upgrade prevents what other upgrade?
balmy portal
yeah...
balmy portal
turbid needle
oh wait this is a spoiler channel
balmy portal
you can find the list of requirements per weapon under their page like misty said
tardy swan
oh wait this is a spoiler channel
I'm fine with spoils. Got them all available and most unlocked anyway. 
Also yes, spoiler channel.
balmy portal
I'm still missing one hammer
turbid needle
too used to talking in the other Hades channels lol
balmy portal
I should go see what I'm doing that's preventing it from spawning
it's my last fated fate 😛
tardy swan
yeah, same reason for me why i asked, Bianary
balmy portal
spear, flurry jab
tardy swan
like, I have 3 weapons I need to get 1 last hammer for
balmy portal
Incompatible with Aspect of Hades and Aspect of Guan Yu
rip.
that's a pretty massive set of incompatibilities lolol
just say "can't be used with the two good aspects"
oh wait achilles is okay
but very cast build
turbid needle
well it makes sense
balmy portal
and I've not been running cast build spears
balmy portal
it's more just wow it's disabled for half the weapons
oh
and any spin boosts I grabbed would have disabled it too
that one is really super awkward to get
I'd prefer it just have a different effect for those weapons
like for Hades/Guan it does "your attack strikes twice but deals -50% damage" or something
tardy swan
Doing a fist run with Lucifer right now. It's such a refreshing twist on the weapon, compared to Arthur or Guan Yu which still feel very similar to the base thing.
balmy portal
arthur feels similar to base sword??
it feels really different to me
guan yu, yeah
oh; if you just dash attack with arthur it'll feel similar
tardy swan
I mean, i haven't played much of either. Lucifer feels immediately different though.
balmy portal
yes
well
if you try out arthur again, test the basic attack chain on skelly for both range and damage
its third strike in particular is like, whichever half of the room you're facing -> dead
(only slightly exaggerating, it's strong)
but slow. Bad if you're running forced overtime.
tardy swan
I noticed the gigaton of damage it deals, but haven't payed much attention to its intrecacies.
finite socket
ornate prawn
arthur third strike is 200 base damage
balmy portal
I'm grumpy about how weak the fishing legendary is
I've had it three times at the end and zero of those times have I gotten an overworld fish. Feels kinda like a wasted pick.
gray shore
Afaik it removes the forced gap between fish rooms
as well as buffing the chance it shows
but you may still lowroll like crazy
anything in this design can lowroll
unless you implement pseudo RNG for fish spawns with poseidon legendary
vast dew
Holy crap.
mortal forge
for guan yi do i need to invest the 5 TS in the spear
vast dew
Aspect of Nemesis combined with Artemis is crazy wow
gray shore
Aspect of Nemesis combined with Artemis is crazy wow
yep
gray shore
for guan yi do i need to invest the 5 TS in the spear
it's certainly easier
mortal forge
what do u mean
vast dew
Yeah, I followed your guys' advice and maxed Nemesis. I ran through the entire game pretty fast.
mortal forge
yea
gray shore
Yeah, I followed your guys' advice and maxed Nemesis. I ran through the entire g...
Yeah I did say Nemesis zooms
:D
mortal forge
Invest Titan Blood into 5 separate non-Zagreus aspect < does this mean in the spear or any 5 non zagreus aspect
mortal forge
wait yea mb
balmy portal
I guess the issue I have with poseidon legendary is that a 20% increase is still a low increase per room, and for the overworld in particular that's a single shot at a fishing location
would be nice if it could boost that end one a bit more strongly than normal
gray shore
right
balmy portal
...also be nice if things like fishing lures didn't do normal delays
gray shore
20% is not much
balmy portal
but whatever
balmy portal
20% does add up over a full run, if you start with it
gray shore
but with Pseudo Random Distribution
balmy portal
yeh
balmy portal
I do think it would be a minor improvement to Hades overall to do pseudo random for a lot of things
gray shore
so it makes it way more consistently 20% over the course of a run
balmy portal
like the number of times I've had 3 styx rooms in a row without finding a single well or fountain
frustrating
gray shore
If the number on Poseidon legendary was llike 75%
it wouldn't be an issue
game would spit fish at you like nobody's business
balmy portal
technically it's a lot higher than +20% as long as you're not looking at just the overworld
gray shore
20% just kinda "feels sensible" but then you get omegafeelsbad when you see 2 fish after legendary
balmy portal
because removing the limit on sequential rooms is a huge chance
20% doesn't feel sensible at all to me for a legendary boon that provides zero combat value
it feels super weak
gray shore
I get what you're saying
it's a metagreed option which
Poseidon kinda has a monopoly on
balmy portal
yeah but most of those benefit you mid-run
balmy portal
the others at least both boost coins
gray shore
I have too
balmy portal
if fishing boon added some coin when you fish?
gray shore
many times when I'm not using LC4
balmy portal
that would be a nice perk.
balmy portal
I was thinking something to boost your chances during the run 😄
gray shore
healing or obols
balmy portal
double fish is still stuck waiting for fish to spawn
...makes fishing lures ridiculously good buys too?
balmy portal
it's a legendary you can get to spawn in the first room
gray shore
it'd be hardly borked if you got minor heal, minor obols, double fish
balmy portal
other legendaries have harsher requirements
well; there's the question of how much meta greed is reasonable to allow
gray shore
it's a legendary you can get to spawn in the first room
That's fair, I forgot they added conch shell as a requirement
I take your point
balmy portal
the in-game text claims you need two of the items, but I've had it spawn on the very first room when I clearly didn't have more than the conch 😛
gray shore
when you could only get it like chamber 10+
balmy portal
well, still
gray shore
the in-game text claims you need _two_ of the items, but I've had it spawn on th...
that wasn't your scripted run was it