you can take whatever you want after those 3 it literally doesn't matter, you can fire 2 hazard bombs before the first one you shot has even exploded
#h1-builds-and-combat
sour bramble
marsh pumice
3 death defies
@cloud barn wait, where you lost all your DD?
silk anvil
Yeaaa I’m not sure why it does seem inconsistent. Maybe one of the pros can answer that
@still vigil "because if knockback worked as it said it did, Poseidon would be undoubtedly a very silly and extremely powerful god.forget 32 heat run, if enemies hit walls like they were supposed to, then you could easily do a 63 heat run with just tidal dash"
sour bramble
for maximum artillery take dionysus cast
split wharf
I had fun with Luci and Dio cast
Double up on the explosion
I'm, not sure I think Luci is good... But I have fun with it
sour bramble
if you get the boon that makes your cast fire twice, dio cast, hazard bomb, artemis spec and a few chaos boons to up your spec's damage
still vigil
I wonder how knockback is even increased? Like how come the dash, which has no push power, shifts most things around with poseidon?
sour bramble
you can pretend you're a Death Korps of Krieg artilleryman
who cares if you accidently get caught in the shelling
all that matters is that everything else did too
prisma raven
i feel like EM theseus is easier than regular theseus
sour bramble
god i hate theseus
prisma raven
he also doesn't shoot right at you he just makes explosions around the arena in easy to spot locations
cloud barn
as a character or a boss
prisma raven
regular theseus i always have a hard time gauging when he's about to throw the spear
sour bramble
i just hate shields
marsh pumice
he is pretty fun.... 
still vigil
But things like Chaos just flop with poseidon on special?
silk anvil
I wonder how knockback is even increased? Like how come the dash, which has no push power, shifts most things around with poseidon?
@still vigil this is the thing I want to know the most. I always figured knockback is a direct proportion to the item's base damage, but yeah, it seems finicky on the different attacks, but reasonably consistent for cast/dash
still vigil
Pretty much this.
cunning urchin
Pretty sure different attacks just have different knockback values somewhere in the game's database.
sour bramble
idk though, i just find it hard to actually hit theseus when he's backed up against the corner of the arena and I've got astarius trying to slap me with a battleaxe
cunning urchin
That they adjust based on what feels right.
sour bramble
like, do I focus astarius first? maybe
proven osprey
sure
still vigil
Values I’d love to find out but don’t have authority nor energy to go out of my way to discover
Cause I’m lazy
cunning urchin
@sour bramble that should help with the fight. #h1-for-new-players message
marsh pumice
focusing Asterius first is easier
odd anchor
how does hera bow(load cast) work with tripel shot hammer, really good or kinda normal
still vigil
Also okay! @cunning urchin
cunning urchin
Another one I've been linking and reposting so many times since 1.0 released lol.
@still vigil I don't know if that's how it works. Just seems like the easiest solution to me that gives them easy control.
still vigil
Ahh
I do wonder tho cause it’d be nice to know which ones I can maximize the knockback on fer fun
gilded nymph
is the chiron bow build just stack artemis specials, aphro attack and hammer
then just brrrr
still vigil
Also I’m not good at data collection so i wouldn’t be able to prove something works if I happened to stumble upon it
sour bramble
pretty sure you can throw demeter spec on chiron
still vigil
Ooo
sour bramble
or dionysus for FAT STACKS
sour bramble
FAT STACKS
still vigil
I’ll designate him to the dash or call before i waste a chiron special on him
sour bramble
FAT STACKS
cloud barn
what's the highest amount of obols anyone has had at once?
still vigil
~1800?
solid hazel
I thought I saw a reddit post around 2.3k?
solid hazel
They sold every single boon somehow
sour bramble
actually yeah uh, now that i look at it
gilded nymph
do you guys ever reroll boons for higher rarity
still vigil
Or usin the keepsake
sour bramble
the stacks might be fat but it's literally not worth it
still vigil
everyone here has done it
But is it worth it
Max dio stack ain’t worth it in my inexperienced opinion
Cause only stack is necessary fer all of his passive boons to activate
torpid wren
i only reroll boons for higher rarity if I don't mind what the result would be either way.
sometimes it's a matter of "I can win with or without it... so anything better would be nice"
still vigil
Also the ways that make hangover have more stacks or tic faster require quite a few solo and duo boons @sour bramble
cloud barn
suffer
prisma raven
concentrated beam or eternal chamber
marsh pumice
beam
marsh pumice
flash fire then
prisma raven
i've heard people say lucifer is too sluggish without flash fire but i think it's not that bad
still vigil
I think eternal chamber works best with lots of additional ticks
prisma raven
i do have zeus attack boon
marsh pumice
having better range and faster speed is great
still vigil
Like you got support fire, lots of zeus, and something else idk
prisma raven
which makes a good case for eternal chamber on its own
oh man support fire on eternal chamber
better range and speed would be nice but. damage
marsh pumice
just go for damage then 
your call
prisma raven
i feel like flash fire is one of those things you only get if you think lucifer is too slow
prisma raven
i may get eternal chamber because i have zeus attack boon and just letting it rip indefinitely sounds good
i feel like it'd be hard to play lucifer without attack being your main damage dealer
i guess you could go cast
still vigil
I’ve won usin luci special
prisma raven
what boons
i just feel like hellfire is really weak, maybe i'm not seeing the potential
marsh pumice
you need to build around it and in your case just go attack
willow fossil
It just hit me, that with approval process is better to run fated persuasion, instead of fated authority
still vigil
I’ve used aphro triple bomb/the one that increases dmg or size with hermes special speed
Arty, pose, and zeus work fine too
Just using the atk to set them off
With a demeter, zeus, aphro or arty boon on the atk
This is part of the fun of Hades fer sure
Finding ways, meme or not, to make things that the gp or you dun think work somehow jank their way to victory
sour bramble
i was watching videos because "new game i like time to absorb content" and I have to say the AFK revenge build is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen in a videogame and I kinda love it
frozen dock
gilded nymph
yeah that's fine
do apro attack and artemis cast and special
and go for heart rend
and try to get artemis legendary
hazy slate
only time ive won with a cast build was with shield hidden aspect
gilded nymph
I love hera cast
winged idol
The Poseidon demeter duo is great for cast
Happened to get it on a random run, used it more than my planned combos
sour bramble
I always find demeter cast to be far too unreliable
I do pick it up sometimes if it's there and I have no cast tho
primal hazel
Demeter with duo boons is pretty fun
But it's one of the harder casts to get a good build for imo
prisma raven
how does targeting system interact with lucifer
still vigil
Epic side hustle or hyper sprint? I’m runnin luci
@prisma raven i dunno I’ll try it if the hammer ever comes up
sour bramble
I do like side hustle because lodsaemone
prisma raven
i've got it now, i'll just see for myself
prisma raven
i'm guessing it still only applies while it's airborn
still vigil
Oof
gilded nymph
you guys ever went through every satyr room to get a sack
winged idol
Had a run early on where the last room had the tiny, and I'd got the sack on a room before that. Was a sad run
gilded nymph
I don't think I can beat hades fast enough now
worn citrus
Advice for properly using Hidden aspect of rail? I gather it's rather dependent on hammers.
empty prairie
@worn citrus What you do is pick a different weapon. Best way to play Lucifer is to not play Lucifer.
pallid dagger
@worn citrus Zeus synergizes REALLY well. So does Dionysus.
worn citrus
But I want to.
pallid dagger
Aphrodite can help, too, if you're going for Unhealthy Fixation.
worn citrus
Yeah, idk. None of the rail aspects really speak to me. I guess Lucifer won't either.
pallid dagger
One thing to be aware of is that on top of standing still, to fire, you cannot knock down projectiles with Lucifer like the other rails, so keep moving.
empty prairie
Lucifer also doesn't have dodge to reload, so keep track of your ammo.
pallid dagger
Oh, and Demeter for the Chill stacks
empty prairie
Arctic blast is pretty ok with Lucifer.
pallid dagger
I think Artemis might be worth a try. Since the damage ramps, critical hits could be really useful and reach high numbers?
in fact, that's what I'll do now.
you know, while i'm doing this,
any tips for Artemis rail runs? Her legendary is cast exclusive, so that's out. Any good duos?
cunning urchin
@worn citrus I think @unkempt zephyr can give you very good tips for Rail 4.
still vigil
Arty is good on attack, good on special too since it chunks with lil investment BUT luci special in my experience works better when you can dole out the hellfires out quickly
Also in my experience, unless yer good with aimin yer highly likely not to hit yer bombs if ya have aim assist on
unkempt zephyr
arty amazing on Luci special with mark
Just weapon of mass anihilation
this is bosses. image what happens with mobs
still vigil
That’s pretty much it
I also vouch this is what happens
Also note the tics on Luci special can crit and stun too
So it’s a very nice landmine
pallid dagger
hmm. damn. all of arty's duo boons either involve casts, or another god's main feature.
i may have to get inventive.
unkempt zephyr
So it’s a very nice landmine
@still vigil its just lvl 2 mark and chaos special. but you MUST have a mark to this effect.
pallid dagger
alright
sly night
Is it jolted?
pallid dagger
tisiphone just killed me
mellow quest
@cunning urchin sorry to ping you but what's your opinion on the crystal beam with the aphrodite + demeter duo boon?
pallid dagger
Supergiant has got to fix the contact function on Lucifer
still vigil
@unkempt zephyr yea i was sayin before it requires relatively lil investment to get it going
cunning urchin
I don't do cast builds. 
unkempt zephyr
@unkempt zephyr yea i was sayin before it requires relatively lil investment to get it going
@still vigil Any think can be solid with invesment)
hazy slate
jolted
mellow quest
jolted with lightning strike rail is like, not even a contest
cunning urchin
I don't pick Dashes that aren't Divine Dash.
still vigil
It can but it can also be said some boons work well without requiring as much work
unkempt zephyr
@cunning urchin sorry to ping you but what's your opinion on the crystal beam with the aphrodite + demeter duo boon?
@mellow quest For me its duo for archers. becaus you land crystal.dash back try kill opponent and crystal attack opponent.But its very big deal to realize on practice.
worn citrus
arty amazing on Luci special with mark
Mark won't help against Hades, though. Right?
still vigil
Lookin at you crystal beam
sly night
hades has adds
hazy slate
mark will kinda help when he summons minions
sly night
iirc
mellow quest
mark still helps clear adds in first phase. it's not the most amazing status but it isn't useless
crits are 3x damage after all
still vigil
first phase em4 hunter mark is good
sly night
is artemis's aid worth keeping or shud I just sell it
pallid dagger
it's worth it
sly night
seems kinda underwhelming
still vigil
Arty call is eh
mellow quest
it's one fo the weakest calls but it's still ok
still vigil
Not bad just but eh
mellow quest
and there are effects like billowing strength
sly night
better than 150g?
obols
I guess its around 1500 damage on average if the whole bar is full
unkempt zephyr
Boyo when some one say artemis call weak. i glad you exist. becaus my opinion artemis call must be nerfed.)
worn citrus
Artemis call allows me to just... skip phases of bosses. So that's nice.
unkempt zephyr
Artemis call allows me to just... skip phases of bosses. So that's nice.
@worn citrus that very big deal))) just skip phase on boss instantly)
mellow quest
it offers 0 utility and ok damage that you don't have a lot of control over
still vigil
It’s not bad, just not somethin to write home to mother about
mellow quest
even if it crits the arrows only start at 100 damage a piece
royal pier
i have a question about the mirror of night. I recently unlocked the last two upgrades and i'm wondering if resetting the board with a key and then using the recycled darkness to max out the switched board followed by a clear will allow me to fulfill the prophecy Dark Reflections and get the 8 titan blood reward. And afterward i could use another key and reset the board again. Is that possible/did what i say make sense?
pallid dagger
people will say artemis or aphrodite have bad calls because of some super involved mathematics but forget that in the meantime, you aren't supposed to be able to methodically achieve 3,000 dps per second in any given run. The numbers are still fairly respectable for an average player.
unkempt zephyr
How much cost to skip phase on EM4?
empty prairie
I still like Artemis aid. I know the math. I like big burst damage. It's handy.
unkempt zephyr
for example first phase.
200-300 hp?
or another example. How much damage ||cerberus|| do and hades can do ...on his 50% hp befor phase changing?
artemis aid big deal on boss figth.
but how any other call she need buffs.
demeter aid not good too. But add arctic blast in build. and see what heppend.
pallid dagger
what does it say that i'm super unhappy with the Lucifer rail now and yet it's still my favorite final aspect?
unkempt zephyr
or add one slam boon(Breaking wave) and Rip Current to poseidon Aid.
primal hazel
Huh
Rama and arthur are cuties
wide plover
@royal pier this should be possible, prophecy only cares if you cleared the game with whatever talent, if you did, whatever you do with mirror before and after is irrelevant
empty prairie
Arthur is the best sword aspect.
royal pier
@wide plover okay cool, i'm gonna write down which ones i need to achieve it and swap those out. thanks
unkempt zephyr
Arthur is the best sword aspect.
@empty prairie im artur mainer. but i dont agree. Poseidons word and nemesis good too.
empty prairie
@unkempt zephyr But the moveset is ass.
pallid dagger
i'm not kidding around here, they need to fix Lucifer. I remain convinced that it passing through projectiles is a serious oversight that should've been patched by now.
unkempt zephyr
even after 44 heat artur(masahistic heat punishments) i cant say nemesis not so good like artur.
or artur>poseidon sword
empty prairie
Has anyone managed 63 heat yet?
empty prairie
Eris rail?
Yeah.
Is there anything in the latest update worth updating for? I know bow got nerfed so unless there's some big awesome change, I'm gonna hold off on updating.
pallid dagger
you know
unkempt zephyr
Chiron was not totaly nerfed. they little change way to play chiron
pallid dagger
this is almost cruel. i've done so poorly i have no death defiances left, and nothing to really save the run...and then here's patroclus.
damn you, elysium.
unkempt zephyr
Becaus now chiron special looks better with dio,ares,demeter. and worse with aphro,artemis,athena.
untold iris
chiron is still fine
its worse than before for sure
but it was very, very good before
it's still good now
unkempt zephyr
chiron still powerfull.
untold iris
and you can still clear high heat with it completely reasonably
unkempt zephyr
for sure
drifting zodiac
I might argue it's a little better with artemis, or at least different? Extra shot is an extra chance to proc crit
untold iris
its less damage with artemis
empty prairie
So is it worth updating or...?
pallid dagger
do i go with zeus, or dionysus for my next rail run?
sly night
is spreadfire pog with the reload rail aspect?
mighty ermine
no
empowered shot is unaffected by spread fire's range modifier
and you'll want to use empowered shot constantly if you can help it anyways
so it doesn't really do much
sly night
greater evasion or quick recovery?
30% life recovered vs 10% dodge
am I thinking about this wrong or is the dash recovery really good
unkempt zephyr
realy good. dash recovery realy good
drifting zodiac
does explosive return proc multiple times?
pallid dagger
you'll want breachy stuff when the dire soulcatcher comes along
primal hazel
Lol is chiron even worth it with crit
Stuff that counts for thrown shield should only be counted once for chaos
pallid dagger
i thought the whole "keepsake spawns boon in shop" had been fixed.....
primal hazel
Breaching yeah
idle thunder
@mods a proper synergy between spear spread and dash strike should be considered
dash strike makes spear spread completely useless
even with no heat a lot of dashing is necessary to finish anyway
timing attacks to be completely out of dashes to use spread which is useful is completely counter productive
empty prairie
Does the rail dash attack actually do more damage or is it just faster?
drifting zodiac
personally like charged or dread
charged is safer, dread is more hits, but I don't play with chaos too much
drifting zodiac
just personal preference for me!
sly night
is fated authority 1 use per run?
sly night
i mean like if u have 1 charge
can u use it 1 time per run?
or once per chamber or what
willow fossil
If you have 1 then yes, just once
sly night
ok
willow fossil
It resets every game
You can increase the number with upgraded keys
And with the mirror
unkempt zephyr
come on, what problems can be with minotaur
with a shield. if its SHIELD. you can block almost all attacks. Just press the button. Only in the 2nd phase after jumping you can take damage from the purple thing and need dash.
willow fossil
I believe you start with 8 with maxed mirror
winged grove
can someone explain how exactly "Rush Delivery" boon from hermes work?
lets say I've 30% speed and I got rush delivery epic (100% speed dmg??)
empty prairie
It drops bloodstones really quickly.
winged grove
wat
its not what you think
"You deal bonus damage based on any bonus move speed."
winged grove
"quick reload"
tawdry sleet
Does anyone have a preference of boon for Twin Fists special? I've currently got Zeus on main attack 
winged grove
"rush delivery"
so much to confuse over lol
well anyway I was curious how this work
winged grove
I got this so many times that I'm never sure how this is calculated
empty prairie
Well then stay curious.
tawdry sleet
I've got Jolted indeed @primal hazel , I'll hold out for Demeter then thanks 
have some
primal hazel
Wish you a successful run!
drifting zodiac
to be fair, you were a touch rude lol. dude was tryna help
empty prairie
If you have 30% speed boost you get 30% damage. Pretty simple.
primal hazel
Chill
winged grove
I did not start anything lol
primal hazel
As I said > No one's offended so it's good right?
@primal hazel
pallid dagger
I have got to remember to turn off EM4 final boss
winged grove
EM4 boss is fun tho /o/
It made my run so much fun that I like to keep it on now
but at the same time it makes some aspect bad
like herstia is so much fun till you realize you need so much fire power at em4
or well I havent manage to get some decent build on it
fair plinth
tfw you use pom blossom and it adds 6 levels to divine dash while your attack and special are level 1
why mommy why
primal hazel
Because divine dash bae
winged grove
I remember someone made a video with lv30 dash boon
empty prairie
@pallid dagger I forgot to turn off HS after I put on EM2. That's the most deadly combo.
eager whale
HS with em4 gets brutal too
pallid dagger
y'all gotta start typing out the names of these pact conditions there's like 20 of them
drifting zodiac
glad it wasnt just me who had to look up HS lol
pallid dagger
i recommend turning EM4 daddy off
i beat him twice, i don't need any further bragging rights
solid hazel
Well I find em4 the most fun, but I would agree it's not efficient for climbing heat
But I guess fun is my main objective
eager whale
i cant imagine doing 32 heat without em4
solid hazel
I don't think most of the high heat actually runs em4
eager whale
i think haelian’s 50 run had em4
willow fossil
Yes
limber flax
man
willow fossil
Is intended
willow fossil
Well you can do dmg while shielding
So gotta get out of your fort
The hard is knowing when to do that
limber flax
just spam bullrush and special easy win
willow fossil
Oh lmfao
eager whale
u just hide in a corner
willow fossil
Turtle strat
eager whale
i dont think anything can pierce the shield from the front
correct me if im wrong tho
karmic dust
you aren't completely invincible.. can still get hit from side/back
empty prairie
I don't know how to play other than careless. 😎
willow fossil
Thats why you get against the wall
I don't know how to play other than careless. 😎
Same
eager whale
playing reckless is so fun with dodge builds
willow fossil
Which is why I struggle to beat em4 hades
willow fossil
He can lol
limber flax
withs shield
eager whale
em4 can
willow fossil
If you dont block with shield
limber flax
whats that
eager whale
extreme measures 4
empty prairie
All gas no brakes.
willow fossil
Em4 is extreme measures 4, which makes hades harder
limber flax
ah
willow fossil
Turtle shield can block hades yes
limber flax
i see
eager whale
there’s stuff em4 hades can do to you that’s kinda overwhelming
eager whale
yup
willow fossil
No
limber flax
okay
eager whale
tiny vermin?
willow fossil
Lol nah
limber flax
tbh
limber flax
like 3 bosses per act would be good
willow fossil
Is because the game isnt fully gameplay, is 50% gameplay 50% story
willow fossil
Yes
limber flax
its just some dialogue
willow fossil
Lmfao
limber flax
a lot of dialogue
willow fossil
The game has probably more dialogue than actual gameplay stuff
eager whale
i wouldnt call it story
limber flax
but 90%of it is just funny interactions and thats it
empty prairie
What roguelike has loads of bosses?
limber flax
cant call that story
drifting zodiac
and each run progresses stories
eager whale
its more character developments
willow fossil
Most of them
eager whale
gungeon @empty prairie
willow fossil
Lol no
limber flax
the rest is just fun dialogue
shadow ridge
There's many small stories that take place between various characters
drifting zodiac
orpheus/his boo
limber flax
although the gameplay is not as complicated
willow fossil
Yeah most roguelikes have a lot of bosses that is true
limber flax
as hades
willow fossil
^
willow fossil
Rpg in a sense
eager whale
so yes i agree with blanky when he says the story is a bit lacking
limber flax
its just content
willow fossil
You can consider each of the furies a boss, also, theseus and asteries are technically 2 bosses
So thats 5
empty prairie
So 2.
eager whale
but story isnt relationship and world bulding
shadow ridge
I've almost done 50 successful runs and after that I think I'll be done. The game isn't varied enough for me to keep playing it. But it was a fun time and definitely more than worth the money
Games aren't made to be played forever
willow fossil
It depends on how you see it
limber flax
with keepsakes and rerolls you can design each run to be the same pretty much
but yes its good too
primal hazel
To some degree
willow fossil
Then dont do that
limber flax
huh
shadow ridge
Most of my runs at lower heat consist of "I have X weapon, I want boon A, B or C" and then you go from there.
eager whale
the variation he wants is what the game can throw at you
willow fossil
Exactly
eager whale
not what you can artificially limit yourself to
willow fossil
Oh well
willow fossil
Approval process makes the game interesting for me
shadow ridge
In that sense it's not that varied. While you can have many synergies I'd argue many of them don't change the game that much.
willow fossil
Literally a different build each time
willow fossil
I love change so
drifting zodiac
love the game, hate approval process
willow fossil
You only have 1 choice per boon
drifting zodiac
just feels so bad when the one boon you want is crossed out
eager whale
^
willow fossil
Well it gives me the variety I need
eager whale
its such a horrible feeling for me
eager whale
i ran it once for the fated list and never touched it agaib
primal hazel
The game gives you tools to make it interesting
willow fossil
Yep
eager whale
definitely
willow fossil
Up to you to use them
primal hazel
To take them is your task tho
limber flax
anyway, i want to say, if the developers keep working on the game they should try to work on variety
shadow ridge
I would like if the game offered some sort of daily run system where a challenge is forced onto the player.
willow fossil
So youre saying you want variety but want to run the same each run
primal hazel
You know the saying "if given the chance players will optimize the fun out of a game"
limber flax
its not only about builds
primal hazel
I'd like them to work on variety
shadow ridge
I play mmos, that's definitely true.
eager whale
those tools arent for everyone tho, so its understandable if you lose interest faster than others
primal hazel
But it's not like the game doesn't have
limber flax
maybe make new areas
willow fossil
Yeah
reef galleon
New genres
willow fossil
The game has plenty of areas
drifting zodiac
I agree with all of you tbh
primal hazel
I don't mean to be rude but if you decide to play the same way every time it's more or less your responsibility
willow fossil
^
drifting zodiac
I love the story, I love making variety for myself by not using the god keepsakes, but more bosses and more tilesets would be welcome
primal hazel
I can agree solytus
willow fossil
I do love the variety, thats why I dont go for the same build each time, of course thatd be boring lol
primal hazel
I'm also taking about heat and weapons
eager whale
on another note
primal hazel
Mirror options
limber flax
make new areas and new bosses
shadow ridge
Binding of Isaac has enough room variation that I can't exactly tell all the rooms, but I can tell all the rooms in Hades. Though to be frank, more rooms wouldn't add more variety as the enemy roster is limited and doesn't have the same implications as the binding of isaac.
willow fossil
True
limber flax
that would be good
eager whale
what’s everyone’s favorite build
primal hazel
Agreed
shadow ridge
I don't have a favorite build, I just have aspects I really don't like
reef galleon
I want to launch hades, and choose between three games
pallid dagger
mkay, that worked pretty well, but i didn't get low tolerance
i think if i could combine that with the curse of nausea i got, i'd be okay
shadow ridge
Most gun aspects I hate
drifting zodiac
Chiron/Aphrodite/Artemis
reef galleon
three random games
primal hazel
I can't pick a single favourite
eager whale
yessss solytus
primal hazel
I can lock it down to favourite weapons better
drifting zodiac
or gun with max ares boons lol
willow fossil
The thing that makes isaac different form this, is that you don't have the tools to shape your build like in hades
limber flax
well obviously new areas means completely new enemies
shadow ridge
I really hate the arthur aspect on stygius
eager whale
i love heart rend chiron or unhealthy fixation chiron
primal hazel
Your words touch me xD> The thing that makes isaac different form this, is that you don't have the tools to shape your build like in hades
@willow fossil
shadow ridge
every other aspect is "yea I like this" "this is cool" and "meh"
willow fossil
So by giving you the tools to make it more fun for you they are sacrificing variety
drifting zodiac
love arthur on low heat,so fun to smack them down with big ol hits
eager whale
especially with backstab hammer
shadow ridge
I don't agree, part of isaac is knowing how the game operates and try to edge out your luck.
drifting zodiac
real talk though, some of the bosses/minibosses in Slay the Spire can be more of a hassle than I like
empty prairie
^
primal hazel
Yeah spire grinded me dry
willow fossil
@primal hazel we dont talk about it 
drifting zodiac
like if I want to go into a skill deck, and get the big ol ogre who enrages when you use skills
primal hazel
Even though I love card games in general
shadow ridge
Though Isaac does run into a problem where if you're incredibly unlucky, a boss that would take X time ends up taking X+Y time, Y usually being a large amount of time
primal hazel
@willow fossil Hey I can still appreciate. ;D
shadow ridge
Slay the Spire is nice, but the game falls apart at higher ascension level where it's clear certain archetypes are straight up superior to others
limber flax
real talk though, some of the bosses/minibosses in Slay the Spire can be more of a hassle than I like
@drifting zodiac lol which
primal hazel
It seems to have a strict meta
limber flax
slay the spire is really great
willow fossil
Yeah in spire you either go meta, or get some stupid combo with relics
fair plinth
can ||hades'|| call be affected by eurydice's upgrade/demeter's rare crop?
willow fossil
I hate metas
primal hazel
It's a keepsake
willow fossil
can ||hades'|| call be affected by eurydice's upgrade/demeter's rare crop?
@fair plinth no
primal hazel
Not aboon
empty prairie
I was hoping that Hades would keep me going until PS5 but I'm beginning to get kind of burned out. Unlocking everything is a major grind.
shadow ridge
Been a big fan of Risk of Rain 2 but it suffers from similar trappings too. Monsoon kind of... heeeeeeh
willow fossil
You upgrade the keepsake to upgrade the call
primal hazel
Maybe take a break
static jacinth
The levels of his call go up with the levels of hte keepsake.
fair plinth
hmm aight, I got rare crop in room 5 but only divine dash as my only boon
primal hazel
I know it's hard to stop
drifting zodiac
woops
empty prairie
@primal hazel That's my plan. But it's just such a good game. Haha
fair plinth
guess i'll pick something else
primal hazel
I have the same fear m8
shadow ridge
and I've cleared the game on monsoon on commando. Probably the worst character in the game
willow fossil
I've been playing hades for months, I have pretty much everything unlocked, and I feel like I love the game every time even more, sponsored by approval process
drifting zodiac
@drifting zodiac lol which
@limber flax I love infinite decks like anger + ceaseless top, so timekeeper and snecko hurt
shadow ridge
Most roguelike/roguelite games have their own trappings. Whether it's dominant strategies, lack of variety, or the game falling apart at scalable difficulty.
Including this one
drifting zodiac
also kinda my fault because I really prefer ironclad, but shrug
limber flax
true
shadow ridge
You're not meant to play them forever
limber flax
very true
drifting zodiac
tbh having 2 roguelikes in your rotation probably solves this in a way
limber flax
they all got their weaknesses indeed
primal hazel
But they're supposed to be very repeatable
willow fossil
Before mods get in here, if you're talking about spire move to #video-games or #off-topic-discussion
primal hazel
So it at least have to check that box
shadow ridge
mods are scary, I'll get back to work
primal hazel
I think alma heard that
limber flax
discussions always end after that
empty prairie
I guess I'll go back to alternating between Nier Automata and Hades.
limber flax
after someone says to move channel
primal hazel
Nier
willow fossil
Yep, after playing for months and still gonna get on the game in a few mins, I can say hades is very repeatable
Well a mod was gonna end it regardless
It doesnt have to end, you can keep going g there
drifting zodiac
I do love that for the most part, hades doesn't hard block any particular builds
willow fossil
Yep
primal hazel
Outside of the hades channels is scary uncharted territory
pallid dagger
anyone know if curse of nausea appears if you have slicing shot?
limber flax
quick tho
pallid dagger
i checked the wiki and it doesn't come up, but i'm hoping it was overlooked
drifting zodiac
unless you heavily invested in melee, then flame wheels and shield bois would like a word
primal hazel
Look in your codex
limber flax
do any of you guys know when that isaac dlc finally comes out
pallid dagger
i mean i would but the boon thingy is already in fronta me
limber flax
bruh
primal hazel
From derail to derail huh?
i mean i would but the boon thingy is already in fronta me
@pallid dagger you can still open codex
errant narwhal
That’s a good topic for #video-games, blanky
primal hazel
It overlays
willow fossil
anyone know if curse of nausea appears if you have slicing shot?
@pallid dagger slicing shot have nothing to do with curse of nause, so as long as you meet the other requisites yes it should appear
primal hazel
Banished to the shadow realm
stuck bobcat
does maim benefit from anything?
or it's always 400 
pallid dagger
unless you have flat damage modifiers like eris, i'm pretty sure it's completely un-modifiable
still vigil
I’ve seen it be 600
But not sure what causes the increase cause I dun pay attention to Maim tic much
Maaaybe it’s rending claws
I’m also very close to turnin on god mode and maxin it out cause I’ve died a lot on heat 17
willow fossil
You maim the maim so maim can increase the maim dmg
Jk idk probably some global dmg like Eris, or the one where if you target someone with your q they move slower and take increased dmg
stuck bobcat
with rending claws that would be 500 not 600 @still vigil
primal hazel
And then you take +50% and perish lol
drifting zodiac
boiling blood?
willow fossil
That as well
still vigil
Dun doubt ya but ive def seen maim hit fer 600
solid hazel
I think the maim status effect is a global damage modifier too...
willow fossil
Also family favorite or privileged status, thats another 20%/25%
Other way around i meant
unkempt zephyr
does maim benefit from anything?
or it's always 400
@stuck bobcat i do max 3800
willow fossil
primal hazel
I'd like a screen of that
unkempt zephyr
buts its build arount miam
primal hazel
No cap
unkempt zephyr
Becaus its was crit
pallid dagger
well that just ruined my day
solid hazel
So like the damage from maim deprocing also benefits from the +25%
pallid dagger
more and more that sneak miniboss feels like a gigantic wrench in the whole game
primal hazel
I feel inadequate if that's true lol
Sneak? You mean the teleporting backstabbing dude?
pallid dagger
yes.
solid hazel
When that guy shows up em4... He hits me more than he should...
still vigil
I like maim personally cause the debuff incentivizes a rush down style during that window
stuck bobcat
it's hard to belive to me becouse maim doesn't seem to scale from Privileged Status and Boiling Blood, also backstab bonus doesn't apply
still vigil
I hate sneks
solid hazel
I could be wrong... I'd need to test it
unkempt zephyr
To buff miam damage to max need : aphro ,artemis,dio, athena.
PS with 2 debuffs. and debuffs must be applyed befor you use miam.
Artemis+athena and artemis+dio give 28% crit chance.
And miam start crits.
Also Heart rend,clean kill,rusthless reflex,Sweet Surrender make miam do even 4k damage from crit.
Miam not a suck.
why ppl do good build for demeter special but dont do same for miam.
primal hazel
I feelike vanilla that mini boss has pretty clear attack patterns
Interesting> To buff miam damage to max need : aphro ,artemis,dio, athena.
PS with 2 debuffs. and debuffs must be applyed befor you use miam.
Artemis+athena and artemis+dio give 28% crit chance.
And miam start crits.
Also Heart rend,clean kill,rusthless reflex,Sweet Surrender make miam do even 4k damage from crit.
Miam not a suck.
why ppl do good build for demeter special but dont do same for miam.
@unkempt zephyr
Have to try
pallid dagger
i resent the hell out of that sneak. that thing does not play well with any weapon and is just not all that fun to fight.
and now i find out you can't even keep a status curse on it.
unkempt zephyr
but all this buff not only for miam. all attacks have 28% crit chance. and athena must be on attack. artemis on cast and aphro on special. to you can take all duos.
primal hazel
It's awful to fight
stuck bobcat
what is miam?
still vigil
Miami
primal hazel
Miami b
pallid dagger
maim is a really crappy status applied by the final aspect of the fists.
stuck bobcat
solid hazel
Divine dash seems like a pretty hard counter @pallid dagger
Just dash attack into him as soon as he appears
pallid dagger
@solid hazel you can encounter the wretched sneak before you have even a single boon, let alone counting on the rng to give you divine dash.
that's the problem with a hyperactive miniboss like that, it appears too early to have built up suitable defenses against it.
solid hazel
I mean I don't find him that hard even with no boons... Maybe a bit slow but that's it
pallid dagger
it's broken.
primal hazel
If you stand still a bit he backstabs
Pretty reliable
It's unfortunately just an endurance fight
solid hazel
What do you mean by broken? Like he kills you a lot, does a lot of damage to you?
pallid dagger
i mean he doesn't play well.
he acts like an enemy from styx, but appears in tartarus.
a lot of health/armor, very jumpy, can't be exposed to statuses....
doesn't feel playtested at all.
solid hazel
I'm not trying to be obtuse... But I really don't understand what you mean
solid hazel
I feel like his attack pattern is simple and he doesn't do much damage or have that much health
pallid dagger
say what now?
simple doesn't mean easy
it's just not fun to fight. the best thing you can say about it is that if you're lucky and got a really good boon or two, it blows over before too much health is lost.
primal hazel
His attack pattern is very simple
It's definitely not fun
But it's not difficult either imo
solid hazel
Yeah i kinda agree with @primal hazel
It doesn't feel particularly fun or unfun to me compared to rest of the game
Just kinda the same?
I definitely disagree that he's hard for that part of the game though...hes always been easy for me
willow fossil
Everytime he appears just dash attack, literally counters him, you dont even need boons, I once killed him with sword special thanks to chaos curse of no attacking, took me a while but I took no dmg
solid hazel
But yeah it's all subjective so I'm not saying you're wrong
willow fossil
Hes annoying in ||em4||
solid hazel
Yeah i agree with that @willow fossil
solid hazel
He's a lot worse when you're not paying attention to him
willow fossil
Yep
solid hazel
Cuz it's like... Sorry hades is a bit more important for me to watch
willow fossil
Isnt that, is the fact that you can't focus him, because then hades will kill you, and viceversa, if you focus hades he will kill you
pallid dagger
either way, it's not giving the seratonin the rest of the game gives me.
like plain and simple, even when it doesn't aggravate the hell out of me (which is most times), it's still not enjoyable.
primal hazel
I sometimes brain afk at the fight
That hurts
willow fossil
Lmfao
shadow ridge
Wretched sneak is hard?
pallid dagger
maybe this is a thing that you run into on max forced overtime?
but then you can just as easily say it stops being fun at high heat.
willow fossil
Yeha im kinda capped at 20 heat, game isn't easy, but isnt too hard
I win and lose
So I just stay there
pallid dagger
same.
still vigil
Okay! So I definitely saw Maim proc 600 after I got aphro/deme
willow fossil
Also you dont get bounties past 20 so
solid hazel
I want my stupid skelly statues
pallid dagger
i came back to hades after a break, and the wretched sneak was new, and my immediate reaction was and is "no, no, that doesn't work, what the hell were they thinking".
i've been trying to give it a fair shot like everything else, but no, i just hate it more.
shadow ridge
Can't say I'd enjoy the game at +30 heat. Game gets broken. But that's kind of the point, you choose your poison
solid hazel
So I'm probably gonna try 32 heat... Whether I get there or not who knows
willow fossil
Some people like a hard challenge
pallid dagger
@solid hazel good luck, i did 32 heat once for the statue and never again.
willow fossil
To each their own
unkempt zephyr
Game hard at 32+. just 32 not broken.not even near
pallid dagger
i'm not someone who gets a thrill out of a brutal challenge, so you can keep your silly super high heat levels. i will stick here with my bro dionysus and just casually murder.
solid hazel
When I was a kid I would overplay games because I didn't have easy access to new ones... You know like I got one new game every 3 to 4 months maybe
primal hazel
"good" old times
willow fossil
Good ol days
primal hazel
I just wanna be as easily entertainable and have no idea of quality again xD
still vigil
@unkempt zephyr so how do you increase maim dmg again?
solid hazel
But now that I have money and no time, it's like I'm learning to be choosier about how I spend my time
primal hazel
Well without getting drunk
willow fossil
Correct
unkempt zephyr
#h1-high-heat-strategies message about Miam
willow fossil
You get to pick what to play, but not exactly when to play it
primal hazel
Now I have no money and no time lol
primal hazel
Still instantly bought hades on 1.0 release
willow fossil
I bought before that
solid hazel
I play board games too and I'm like this cost 60 bucks and I might play it 10 to 12 times?
So maybe 1 dollar per hour
willow fossil
Hades has me like at 200 hrs and I still keep going, all for 25 bucks
solid hazel
Video games are like 3 cents an hour for most of the ones I play
I've spent 120 on mhw and I have 14k hours haha
unkempt zephyr
@unkempt zephyr so how do you increase maim dmg again?
@still vigil and its must be athena attack aphro special and artemis cast.
primal hazel
I couldn't
Switch
I play board games too and I'm like this cost 60 bucks and I might play it 10 to 12 times?
@solid hazel I can really recommend dominion
It has insane readability and can be played with 2 up
Also all expansion are mixable
It's card based
solid hazel
Yeah gonna go hipster on you, but I've been playing that since like 2014
willow fossil
I would 100% spend more money on hades dlc if there was any
solid hazel
Real life board gaming is kinda a dead thing for me now anyway... Living in America in the plague and all
Sometimes pop into board game arena but it's not really the same
primal hazel
Still do it with a small group of friends
solid hazel
Virtual board games just feel like inferior video games
primal hazel
I can play sets for hours on end
But derail
willow fossil
Well lovely talking to yallz but I have an underworld to escape
bright flint
are there any boardgame coffee in america?
solid hazel
At least half the fun of board gaming is in the social f2f aspect
willow fossil
Come back when you escaped
What if I dont
bright flint
I go to that place with my friends, pay for one drink and stay there for hours to play board game occasionally
pallid dagger
we'll bravely go on without you
solid hazel
Then don't come back
willow fossil
solid hazel
We only hang out with winners here
solid hazel
True that
willow fossil
solid hazel
And he's also zagreus's other half
primal hazel
He died for him to exist
pallid dagger
he's the biggest bro ever
primal hazel
Chad Fratboy
solid hazel
That was some of the funniest stuff they put in because it's based off actual historical texts
Like Dio and zag being conflated at some points in the myths
willow fossil
Ima try fated persuasion, see if its better with approval process
primal hazel
It's more meta lol
solid hazel
I run persuasion most of the time... It just seems better
primal hazel
Build control ;D
willow fossil
The thing about zag and dio, is that in some books, persephone is dios mother
solid hazel
Like one persuasion gives 3 rerolls, one per skill
One authority only gives one reroll
weak moat
@cunning urchin I no longer aim for ice wine with dio. Scintillating feast is super good, and mirage shot is also super good
willow fossil
The only reason I'm planning to run persuasion is because poseidon and chaos exist
primal hazel
That's a weird way to describe it
willow fossil
I dont need gems or darkness
bright flint
Like one persuasion gives 3 rerolls, one per skill
and then you reroll into that same three skill with different rarity
primal hazel
The thing is you can't reroll blue laurels into golden laurels
So authority does nothing for you there
hybrid wave
ok read up on the math and it does seem like doom is better than poison. If that's the case for fast hitting weak attacks though, when would doom ever be worse than poison (at least for just damage ignoring other enabling duos/boons)? I would think one would be situationally better than the other but it seems like it's not...
willow fossil
Well I can roll poms into boons, so thats a lot
solid hazel
I dunno it just seems like controlling what skill I get is more important than what rewards are in rooms too
pallid dagger
you'll think that until you get nothing but coin and darkness for 20 rooms straight
solid hazel
Only time I switch to authority is when I'm hunting for a legendary or full Zeus build or something
primal hazel
Controlling your boons is better
you'll think that until you get nothing but coin and darkness for 20 rooms straight
@pallid dagger I'll take 20 coin rooms
solid hazel
Cuz then it makes sense cuz sometimes you need a lot of prereqs from same God to get what you want
primal hazel
Also keys and gems are worse than darkness
I want that theme
pallid dagger
trust me it's not as fun as it sounds
primal hazel
M8 I'm playing with persuasion for long
I don't miss authority
I rather have the boons I want from gods if I get them
solid hazel
Yeah i thought authority was strong until I read what persuasion did...
primal hazel
Authority gives you less control than you think
solid hazel
And I was like nope... Green side please
I'm having trouble putting into words or math why I think it's so much better... But it just felt intuitively better
primal hazel
You can of course still use it by preference
I'm not saying anything against that
But if we're going by "optimal" I'd strongly argue for persuasion
red harbor
what are some good boons to take w nemesis?
solid hazel
Triple A stuff, Artemis Athena aphro
pallid dagger
anything arty or aphrodite
best thing to do is both--artemis' hunting dash can be used in tandem with any attack boons
solid hazel
Mathematically aphro is leagues ahead dps wise
primal hazel
Crit
solid hazel
For attack
pallid dagger
so go aphro for main attack and artemis for dash
primal hazel
But I want crir
solid hazel
Artemis strike losses to aphro strike a lot
pallid dagger
hence, the hunting dash
dash attacks get a massive boost from her
you can just spam sword thrust and watch everything die
solid hazel
Athena attack or Athena dash is also good for more defense oriented, but aphro attack, arty dash is most dps
solid hazel
And then arty/aphro duo is probably the most important one
Athena/arty is good if you have divine dash or strike too
Aphro/Athena is pretty much useless on nemesis
Double edge hammer is by far the best hammer upgrade
In fact I'd say everything else is just anvil fodder to try to get double edge
still vigil
But advil is good for headaches tho
primal hazel
That what I said
hybrid wave
haha it always takes the one I don't want it to, or gives me cursed slash 🙃
primal hazel
Run go pfffff
solid hazel
Yeah if your build is working already there's almost no reason to take anvil... But I'd say nemesis to get double edge is an exception
red harbor
am noob what is anvil
solid hazel
Double edge is that broken on nemesis that it's worth it
graceful perch
I beat up charon and only lost one death defiance
primal hazel
If you're noob this is prolly the wrong channel for you
still vigil
It’s a medicine for headaches @red harbor
primal hazel
Too many spoilers
red harbor
i was joking :))
primal hazel
It’s a medicine for headaches @red harbor
@still vigil thats not how medicine works
still vigil
how dare you
solid hazel
Damn
primal hazel
What are you taking as medicine
graceful perch
and immediately after charon was death barge with athena's restore a death defiance boon
solid hazel
Oh you can say that haha
graceful perch
blessed
still vigil
Advil is the bees knees
solid hazel
I was just wondering because of @hybrid wave's handle
hybrid wave
iirc cursed slash is the hammer upgrade that ||gives you lifesteal but takes like 60% of your max health||
solid hazel
Cursed slash can actually carry beginners to Hades pretty consistently
At which point they usually die
And then they keep thinking cursed slash is good
It's a most insidious noob trap
hybrid wave
right it's great until the end IMO which is why after ruining like 2 runs I stopped grabbing the anvil lol
solid hazel
Yeah it's pretty evil... Cuz like a lot of beginners don't get that far... And then they take cursed slash and get all the way to hades
So they think it's op, but then they just keep dying to hades
I mean its in the name haha... It's cursed
primal hazel
Maybe it's just thematic genius
solid hazel
Evil genius for sure
fair plinth
why would you die with cursed slash at hades tho
just chunk away and dodge his most obvious attacks and you gucci
solid hazel
Cuz you have 60% less hp and the 2 hp heal doesn't matter that much if he chunks you for 40 a spin slash
primal hazel
We're talking about beginners
still vigil
Even tho I keep takin rush delivery cause it just does more dmg the way I play, how exactly does it work?
hybrid wave
it's more sustain but much smaller window to mess up
solid hazel
Right we talking about beginners this is a key point
primal hazel
Even aside from mirror buffs
fair plinth
cuz I recently had a zag stygius run with cursed slash + flurry slash + hermes attack speed buffs
i didnt have to dodge anything
just hold down mouse button and hades ded
pallid dagger
well that's all well and good but i agree with natedawg
in general cursed slash can't counterbalance the amounts of damage you take higher up in the underworld
solid hazel
All is right in the world when people agree with me haha
Yeah the other point is that the high level meta for nemesis/zag aspect is all dash attacks
And cursed slash doesn't work on those
So that's why high level players think it's bad
Doesn't mean flurry slash cursed slash wouldn't work...probably just not as well and also harder to build
sonic merlin
How is heavy knuckle? Not good?
solid hazel
Mid tier imo
solid hazel
A moderate dps upgrade as long as you're not running Zeus attack
With Athena it's a dps upgrade but safety downgrade
sonic merlin
Other options are quake cutter and flying cutter
Not too familiar with either
I don't really use special that much with fists aside from applying statuses
still vigil
Two questions:
Rush kick or rending claws?
Also how exactly does Rush Delivery work?
solid hazel
All kinda inconsequential imo... None of them scream pick me
Take what you need for minor prophecy haha
still vigil
I fulfilled them all
solid hazel
Sorry I was talking to @sonic merlin
still vigil
Oh srry
solid hazel
Hadn't even read your question yrt
Yeah i don't know... Maybe rending claws for spice factor
pallid dagger
oh you sONS OF...