How does zeus special work with the lightning procs?
#h1-builds-and-combat
primal hazel
onyx parcel
I wonder if the chaos ME bug is still working
empty veldt
@gilded nymph twin, perfect
primal hazel
Isn't it too quick cause all shields get thrown at omce
elfin pulsar
does getting somebodies relationship maxxed out have any gameplay effects?
primal hazel
No
elfin pulsar
cool thanks
onyx parcel
Nope except for a cool icon
solid hazel
@fast fulcrum no rupture does not stack
primal hazel
Only gives you lore and for some characters ||companions||
fast fulcrum
thanks
onyx parcel
Does anyone know if chaos shield ME bug still work or nah?
elfin pulsar
yeah I hadnt seen the icon before until I watched this speedrun
fast fulcrum
would probably be too insane if it did
onyx parcel
The ones where u instantly proc multiple doom with special
Doom on attack and Athena on special
If u shotgun someone it procs 6 dooms in one instance
smoky atlas
fixed according to the latest patch
solid hazel
Wasn't the multi proc on ME just patched?
empty veldt
Nah that no longer works
solid hazel
Like yesterday
solid hazel
Lol so any other way you guys build chaos aspect?
onyx parcel
Lol so any other way you guys build chaos aspect?
@solid hazel aphro is nice honestly
Just for the damage
primal hazel
Aphro dio
onyx parcel
And also I’d expect doom on special to be good
empty veldt
Even demeter on special with arctic blast also good
Demeter duo boons only cast focused tho
primal hazel
Doom only triggers only once of the whole shotgun throw tho
solid hazel
It depends if you're using it on a bunch of weak enemies or shotgunning one enemy for doom to be good
I mean both situations come up, but I think chaos seems to struggle most with single target damage
onyx parcel
It’s alright if u could aim the shotgun
empty veldt
Shotgun aphro special i guess
solid hazel
Ywah I could see that
onyx parcel
Yea aphro special is strong
solid hazel
Artemis would do more damage technically but aphro has so much utility with the weak
empty veldt
Artemis and aphro always comparable damage output
Especially if u consider pom scaling
empty veldt
Cause artemis doesnt scale with poms well
The curse for poo that starts with s and ends with hit
solid hazel
Artemis scales fine with poms if you consider the crit is multiplicative whrer almost everything else is additive
If anything getting chaos boons on top of Artemis is very strong because of the crits
empty veldt
That is true with chaos
This is why i like weapons with innate crit, i can put Aphro and not worry about sacrificing crit
And deal insane damage with heartrend duo boon
Zag Bow and Nemesis
solid hazel
I'd have to run numbers but I'd guess Artemis is probably still better for raw damage even with innate crit chNcs
But with privledged status in play aphro might be comparable or better
Artemis is horrible for privledged status haha
cunning urchin
Nah, Heartbreak Strike is always better than Deadly Strike on anything. Same for Flourish. It's only once you add t2 crit boons, Chaos boons, etc., that Deadly Strike/Flourish eventually wins out.
empty veldt
Merci
cunning urchin
On Nemesis and Coronacht, it's not even a competition.
empty veldt
By t2 crit boons, like clean kill and heart rend yes? Does pressure point also count?
cunning urchin
Heart Rend is tier 3.
empty veldt
Ah ok
solid hazel
I mean these are the numbers I'm using...base 100 damage to make it easy, all boons common
cunning urchin
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
solid hazel
Aphro is 50% so aphro hits 150 damage
cunning urchin
Second tab is averaged for crits, third and fourth tabs are averaged for Nemesis and Coronacht respectively.
hybrid wave
anyone know if companions can crit if you have the artemis boon? 
solid hazel
Artemis is 20%, with 15%,crit so it's 120x0.85+120x3x0.15=156
cunning urchin
Heartbreak Strike and Flourish have way better pom scaling. Common Deadly Strike is +56% on average vs +50% from Heartbreak Strike, but it falls behind after just one level.
solid hazel
Hah okay I can believe that at least I did the Calc right haha
But what about with chaos boons with the Artemis? The +damage% is going to be worth more than on aphro
smoky atlas
huh thats surprising
didnt think arte atk/special would lose vs aphro after 1-2 poms, even accounting for crits
cunning urchin
But what about with chaos boons with the Artemis? The +damage% is going to be worth more than on aphro
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c0C5S__GYUO8Cz2ibKhOUu7okqDTqhGRuCzwRlz6X1U/edit?usp=sharing
Also has tabs for Nemesis and Coronacht again.
That's just for level 1, though.
empty veldt
What does the numbers going down mean?
cunning urchin
That's attack modifier. So 1.5 would be +50%.
Numbers in column A are any additive +% damage from Chaos boons or whatever.
empty veldt
So deadly strike does winover heartbreak with chaos boons
solid hazel
Hah sorry I would read it myself, but I can't seem to open it. Thanks for answering anyway @nya@cunning urchin
cunning urchin
Eventually, but Heartbreak Strike has better pom scaling.
turbid needle
heroic heart is much better than heroic deadly
empty veldt
Right right
heroic heart is much better than heroic deadly
Kek, i can count the amount of times i got any heroic in one hand
turbid needle
even rare need deadly to aquire some outside damage boost in order to catch up with rare heart
smoky atlas
not sure if im reading the sheet right, but since chaos %dmg starts at 30%, i can ignore 0-29 from column A?
turbid needle
i mean we still have the thing from Than
cunning urchin
Chaos isn't the only additive source you can get.
smoky atlas
oh right
turbid needle
wait, how many gods are the same age range as the big three again?
i only know Demeter
cunning urchin
Age range?
That's more a question for #h1-discussion or #h1-story-discussion.
All the mythology-or-whatever majors in #h1-story-discussion would probably know lol.
solid cairn
I hear conflicting info about heartbreak v. deadly
I'd imagine heart rend definitely makes it better
frigid canyon
Is Excalibur goat
solid cairn
it is quite a goated weapon
frigid canyon
Mega goat
solid cairn
*at low to mid heat
turbid needle
big NUMBER
solid cairn
at below 32 heat it is top tier
turbid needle
i mean you can skip heat and try for bigger heat straight away if you want
solid cairn
if you want a head start, pick Tight Deadline 2, Extreme Measures 2, Middle Management, Damage Control (if the weapon attacks fast) and some convenience fee and/or lasting consequences
frigid canyon
I thought the trap heat wouldn’t be bad but
solid cairn
it is bad
frigid canyon
It makes the hades fight impossible
solid cairn
very very bad
turbid needle
i dont think tight deadline over Extreme measure is a good choice tbh
solid cairn
TD2 is free
frigid canyon
Tight deadline and extreme measures are fun enough
solid cairn
TD3 is a problem though, I do not recommend
woven fog
how many level of extreme measures we have? i did the max (3) today
turbid needle
every time i run tight deadline, i just pray to Chaos and every Greek gods out there that i dont encounter ||tiny vermin||
solid cairn
||4, but you need to unlock it||
woven fog
do i need || the sigil of the dead that gave me Hades|| or doesn't matter for the task?
solid cairn
I would go to #h1-story-discussion
woven fog
oh ok no prob
random light
Eris Rail build?
turbid needle
im still trying the lightning strike Eris build like everybody said
cant finish cause online class
void zenith
Then rush kick anyway
turbid needle
rush kick is usually the best choice in all the hammer upgrade for fist
void zenith
It's a straight upgrade. Other ones are good, but conditional
void zenith
Explosive upper has been kind of underwhelming in my experience tbh, cause uppercut already does aoe
turbid needle
remember upper kick is usually the choice to go for almost any fist run
unless you have a very specific buiuld in mind
void zenith
Just on its own, Aphrodite or Demeter are great. Poseidon or Artemis need a couple poms to really shine. Zeus can get absolutely insane, but it needs a good bit of investment with other related boons or quicker charge speed
lone lava
10:38
void zenith
dionysus boon is ever really worth it if you have the ares/dio or ares/aprho duo
lone lava
Dio is actually insane for dmg
I think on it's own it's the best
Especially if you do mini calls
void zenith
And ares is only if you already have the boons that improve the blade vortex
lone lava
I thought dem was nice but she's one of the lowest dmg actually
turbid needle
Poseidon is best for both survivability and damage
artemis/Dio call is extremely good for damage
the other call are kinda meh
Aphro can be useful everynow and then
lone lava
So only take that for the safety with slow
void zenith
One thing I don't like about dio boon is that it wastes hits after enemy's already stacked to 5
lone lava
Aphro is good dmg that doesn't scale with poms but only works on full call
void zenith
I guess if you just use it on cooldown it works better
lone lava
yeah don't take dio if you have hangover for sure also
void zenith
But full call for dio is a waste
lone lava
Idk how they stack
There was a spreadsheet somewhere
of call dmg
poseidon was good
dio and zeus probably best since you can keep hitting
zeus scales with his boons too
limber flax
lone lava
artemis was low but can scale with crit stuff and can backstab
limber flax
1 or 2
lone lava
aspect?
limber flax
none
limber flax
fists
limber flax
yes
lone lava
if you use special go 2
smoky atlas
If you have demeter fist, do you get 5 kicks
lone lava
since the downside is nothing p much
limber flax
okay nice thx
turbid needle
yes Demeter's aspect also work for the kick
for reference kick is kinda the better "charge special" hammer upgrade
lone lava
I actually liked kinetic launcher
turbid needle
kick is like a slightly weaker but without the charge but also cover more distance version of kinetic launcher
marsh pumice
how good is Concentrated Volley?
lone lava
Very I've heard
unkempt pagoda
it's chiron's bootleg charged volley
neat hound
Is there a way to make summon work against Hades ?
smoky atlas
quickly charm him before he does the spin
screen wipe
guess thats not exactly what youre asking but its one way to do it
lone lava
You mean the companions?
unkempt scroll
Uhm, I'm trying out that pact that gives most shielded enemies some sort of passive/effect... Should I be scared of that? A circle-thing just happened, and I have no idea what that was o_o
lone lava
If so ||bouldy will work against hades|| and eventually ||meg/than/dusa will too|| you'll get dialogue from ||hades I think after you max his favour or smth||
bright flint
||skelly|| can also be used against him
proven osprey
Wait you can share pictures
mighty ermine
externally like through image hosting (imgur) or just uploading to a private server and copying link
jagged perch
so how do i build ||gilgamesh||?
ruby sequoia
It's pretty slow, so i like something with % scaling, just to kill them a bit faster
proven osprey
externally like through image hosting (imgur) or just uploading to a private server and copying link
@mighty ermine Yeah, thanks !
How should I build Railgun 4th ?
stoic thicket
Zeus on the attack, then stack more Zeus, and more Zeus. If you have room, more Zeus.
proven osprey
special is irrelevant ?
stoic thicket
You can put something with a bit of chonk on the special, Arty, Demeter, Aphro, something like that, and use it for a bit of extra damage during reloads and to spread curses if necessary.
Athena Dash as always is never bad.
proven osprey
Oh
stoic thicket
Fast attack rate makes Arty's Support Fire also very appealing.
proven osprey
Then I won't spend too much blood on it first
limber pine
don't really like 4th gun, yeah level 1 is fine for it
proven osprey
I see, ty for you help
oh and
How does flying kick work with demeter aspect ?
sicne the special is a double kick
hazy slate
adds more hits
stiff flume
if i have something like ares doom on my attack
and then get a boon from chaos that boosts the damage from my attack
does it affect the doom effect?
lone lava
No
forest scaffold
Whats a fun aspect of Zagreus sheild build? Like what artifact to take
kinda wanna try one with the bullrush
mighty ermine
By artifact I'm guessing you mean daedalus hammer upgrade?
Pulverizing blow synergizes very well with zag shield
That's the double hit attack one without knockback
forest scaffold
nah I mean the artifacts the various gods give you
mighty ermine
Boons, then
lone lava
For zagspect I think you just go for double hit always yeah and then do some combination of aphro/artemis/athena on attack and dashes for their duos
mighty ermine
Or keepsakes?
forest scaffold
yeah the keepsakes
lone lava
Or you can go for poseidon zeus duo
mighty ermine
With a decently upgraded zag shield, you'll want a high +% attack boon yeah
lone lava
I did one with poseidon dash and attack with zeus on cast or special or something
It was very strong once I had sea storm
mighty ermine
She has the highest +% modifier, and Artemis can reach similar heights with crit average
forest scaffold
screw it i need to level the rose anyway
wish me luck - hopefully I'll beat my dad to death
lone lava
just do either of those and spam the combo of: dash strike, double attack, repeat
neon cave
Aphro also has sweet surrender for even more damage
jaunty phoenix
hei guys, what to you think are the best aspects to unlock for a noob? i liked chiron a lot but i have no idea of what to unlock next
limber pine
just anything besides the default Zag aspect and Spear
limber pine
yes, it stops them from doing anything, Theseus/Asterius will fight each other
mighty ermine
Yes, it just has greatly reduced duration
unkempt scroll
Uhm, does "+??% attack dmg" also help with dash-attack? 🤔
turbid needle
I have no idea how to build Arthur other than just get Aphro/Athena and stack fat. Any suggestions?
drifting vale
dont mind this
gotta love when the wellls in Styx are impossible to click on so you lose a DD that really shouldnt have otherwise
unkempt scroll
You don't click on them, though? You just stand next to it?
drifting vale
you do have to press a button/key in my case to use them though
but sometimes you gotta dodge other things at the same time and the wells box to get the prompt to small compared to the whole thing
marsh pumice
is shield Bull Rush considered an attack?
regal cape
Yep
astral hill
Hello i'm wondering if it's possible to unlock hidden aspects without escaping with guan yu that weapon is kinda sluggish and hard to use not to mention boring
limber flax
okay is it just me or is chill effect OP
crystal glare plus epic crystal beam
limber pine
you don't need to do escape with GY immediately
neon cave
I have arthur and gilgamesh and I didn't purchase guang yu, only revealed it
void zenith
Poseidon on Chiron special y/n?
hazy slate
N
hazy slate
Use like, Artemis on Chiron special
drifting vale
theres a max distance the arrows can go
void zenith
I'll grab the cast, then
forest scaffold
Thanks for teh recommendation on the aphrodite build
just got my first shield kill on dad
and the charm interupted the death beams 😄
hazy slate
Oh that’s nice to know actually
orchid sonnet
Any tips on Lucifer? It's like the only Aspect I can't figure out how to use properly. You can ramp up damage pretty well on the attack, but it's so hard to deal with everything around you since it's primarily single target. It's hard to aim at the bomb to get that AoE. My weapons are all around 12 heat right now, so that's about the level I play.
limber pine
stack Zeus boons on it I guess and get support fire from Artemis
void zenith
Demeter on lucifer works pretty nicely too
onyx parcel
Chaos shield feels nice to play now that I haven’t played it in a while
solid portal
spread shot on chiron bow by my calculations should be interesting to see what happens
lol
e=mc intersting
red acorn
When I used Lucifer, I ended up spamming dashing in and out (had Athena's) to trigger the bombs in between attacks.
I also had the triple bomb hammer upgrade, so...yeah.
gloomy kettle
does anyone have a tier list for all the aspects?
limber pine
check jawlesspaul on youtube for aspect tier list
solid portal
his is great, I'm not sure he has it complete yet though
I think he's missing fists, bow and rail
lone lava
@orchid sonnet with zeus attack you can still deal with rooms pretty easily, especially if you grab jolted too. Just keep dashing back since you can keep the beam on them the whole time even when dashing backwards
gloomy kettle
I don't have enough brain energy to watch a video can I get the best aspect for each weapon instead please?
orchid sonnet
Thanks for the tips all
limber flax
i just had my first win and unlocked heat
is heat like really unbalanced? in terms of how much difficulty it adds
my impressions on first glance
lean knot
some modifiers are much more difficult than others yea
ashen bloom
heat can be customized deeply, they are not unbalanced
ashen bloom
more difficult heat are worth 2 or 3 heat points
ashen bloom
hard labor means nothing if you don't get hit 😋
calm oyster
limber flax
ah i misread
you right
middle management seems okay too tbh
for 2 heat not so much
ashen bloom
I don't think they all have to have relative heat points according to their toughness
ashen bloom
combining many heat options can yiled different difficulties
ashen bloom
like, calisthenics may not mean much on its own, but combining it with Jury summons it might be a challenge
prime crown
The only unbalanced one I would say is the trap damage one, just because there are traps in the Hades fight, so 1 heat doesn't seem quite enough
ashen bloom
or combining hard labor and forced overtime
prime crown
It's also easy to get clipped in Styx if the poison gets crazy, like with big rat miniboss or somethinf
But you remember the first 150 damage jar
ashen bloom
I got hit for 150 like 20 minutes ago, immidiate death 😄
ashen bloom
I don't think game/developers claim that hard labor (1 heat) is equal to other 1 heat punishments (in terms of difficulty)
solid portal
wow chiron bow is uselss in elisium without major DPS buffs
ashen bloom
pact of punishment was more distinct in early access, like you could dump 25 heat and game would still be not that hard
this new structure of the pacts are more accessible
limber flax
can they pls make fists dash special be two hits two
that triggers me so hard
trying to not do the dash special
stiff jacinth
So, people keep telling me that Chaos Aspect Shield is amazing, but I'm not sure I know how to make the most of it.
Any advice in that regard?
sacred geyser
which heat is the "easiest" to increase? I'm like, reaching level 5 which isnt even much, and i struggle to choose
mighty ermine
tight deadline 2 is somewhat free if you already can make good pace in your runs normally
sacred geyser
yeah i use deadline already
then i usually go for the one that makes armored enemies have special things like ghost clones
and i used to take the 5x dmg traps too, but it always gets back to me with the green hades vases
upgraded fury isnt THAT bad too, just difficult
mighty ermine
middle management and benefits package are good ones since they spice up encounters without making them harder in a straightforward stat sense like hard labor, and it's good to get used to them anyways
limber flax
whats your favorite fists aspect and why
mighty ermine
same goes for extreme measures, to a certain extent
sacred geyser
on a different note, is it just me or is dionysus one of the much stronger options to have on Attack?
mighty ermine
dionysus attack is incredibly weak on high base damage, slower hit weapons
for example, you pretty much would never want it on hidden sword or hidden bow aspect
unkempt pagoda
obviously the first heat you should turn on is AP1 
unkempt pagoda
approval process
sacred geyser
what does that do lol i forgot sorry
wasnt that like, enemies have 20% more health
unkempt pagoda
one choice when you pick up a boon/pom/hammer/etc is slashed out at random
sacred geyser
lol
that reminds me, i actually discovered a tiny bug when i used the thing that removes your nyx powers
mighty ermine
and AP2 comes along and says you don't get a choice at all 
sacred geyser
only dodge chance?
mighty ermine
not anymore, and it didn't work that straightforwardly before either
sacred geyser
when you have those mirror powers turned off and enter the mirror, while having your cursor on the disabled powers, it will display a placeholder text instead of the number
mighty ermine
basically the attack speed only applied to the first hit's startup
limber flax
huuuuuuuuuuuuh
onyx parcel
So, people keep telling me that Chaos Aspect Shield is amazing, but I'm not sure I know how to make the most of it.
@stiff jacinth dio is good with it
Aphro also good
Aphro dio duo
Aphro ares duo
All great
Hammer u want explosive return
sacred geyser
i had a run with demeter/dionysus and the fog blast was amazing
mighty ermine
sort of but not really, given that the attack speed bonus did next to nothing anyways
stiff jacinth
@onyx parcel Don't you only get one stack of Hangover per hit though?
Or am I wrong about how it works?
onyx parcel
@onyx parcel Don't you only get one stack of Hangover per hit though?
@stiff jacinth on chaos shield if u shotgun an enemy
U apply multiple hangovers
Immediately
stiff jacinth
Wait, you can do that???
onyx parcel
I think
mighty ermine
for fists? no, far from it
mighty ermine
it's fine but i don't think zag fists would at all be considered "best"
onyx parcel
Demeter is the way
onyx parcel
Demeter
limber flax
i heard you lmao
sacred geyser
i use zag fists but i dont have the hidden one so
sacred geyser
whatever that is, its probably cool
mighty ermine
that sounds like a terrible ranking, honestly
mighty ermine
demeter fists are incredibly strong and have held speedrun WRs
mighty ermine
yeah sorry to whoever made that ranking but that makes no sense
sacred geyser
its so hard for me to switch from another weapon to the rail because i dont stagger anymore LOL
onyx parcel
I will not accept any Demeter slander in this server
onyx parcel
It’s outdated
limber flax
can he be trusted
sacred geyser
demeter ||best grandma||
mighty ermine
yeah that just sounds like ranking of old zag fists, with some placebo effect in play
no, so i still disagree with demeter at D in that context too
sacred geyser
wait which eurydice snack is better, ambrosia (rarity) or pom (level)?
mighty ermine
they've always been great
limber flax
why is that video outdated 
limber flax
aight
onyx parcel
That’s the reason it’s outdated
Btw he made a mistake in that video as well @limber flax
mighty ermine
tier lists are pretty nebulous in hades anyways because of lesser-used ones getting unexpectedly high heat scores or speedrun times, pretty frequently
limber flax
fists might become my favorite weapon since i got my first win with it
limber flax
okay
onyx parcel
7 hits would move Demeter from A to S
In my opinion
Max Demeter with a crit build is insane
So much damage in one punch
mighty ermine
pretty much go with your favorite weapon/aspects because everything is more than viable, and can be taken to high heat or run with fast times
limber flax
how long after first win to unlock that fourth aspect?
hazy slate
which one?
limber flax
fists
ornate prawn
do you have spear aspect?
hazy slate
uh, i think theres a guide in the pins somewhere but long story short, 5 blood in fists and have 4th spear aspect
mighty ermine
limber flax
oh
mighty ermine
here's the pin, with spoilers marked
limber flax
okay so i need to invest blood anyway to unlock the forth?
hazy slate
yeah
mighty ermine
dash-upper does have the extra hits if it's charged
hazy slate
how much blood do you have in demeter
hazy slate
yes
gloomy kettle
is demeter or talos better?
hazy slate
demeter is better if you have more blood invested into it
talos is good even if you didn't put a lot of blood into it
solid portal
whats a good build with Talos?
hazy slate
ive heard poseidon special is fun
lapis matrix
Huh, Aphrodite and Demeter Duo boon works funny with Artemis' mark
Allows you to mark singular bosses
robust anchor
@solid portal try merciful end kekw
solid portal
thanks
robust anchor
yw
make sure you go ares attack and athena special and athena dash
very specific
limber flax
I feel like athena is especially important on fists , is that correct
smoky atlas
how do curse of longing and merciful end interact?
hazy slate
id assume itd proc doom early
hazy slate
i also think you could proc the doom from curse of longing
smoky atlas
for example, if I apply weak, then doom, then keep alternating btw doom and athena attacks, would the athena proc the first doom or the subsequent dooms
smoky atlas
hence the question, merciful end ends the doom proc immediately
but curse of longing prolongs doom effect
unkempt pagoda
me will immediately end the doom effect
col basically gets cut off if you want to use me in any meaningful way
they do very opposite things. if you let CoL go on, ME doesn't do much for you. if you use ME, CoL never gets proc'd meaningfully
smoky atlas
ok so ME simply ends doom altogether, regardless of multiple dooms from CoL
think i get it now, thanks
solid portal
What is Euridicies best choice?
unkempt pagoda
they all are the best in the right context, there's no blanket "this one is better than other ones"
robust anchor
9/10 times i take the pom porridge
the second choice
if you can guarantee choice 1 will hit the right boons, that one is obviously better than 2
latent briar
How do you use the Excalibur?
Everyone seems to love this sword, but for me it is just so slow, I cant do a single attack with it without getting all enemies ganging up on my ass and destroying my HP.
cloud barn
after starting the combo you can dash during it
hushed sun
tank and nuke.
cloud barn
I don't even have to tank with it, I just vibe with the dashes
smoky atlas
dash in front of a group just before a swing
cloud barn
note, backstab is based on where you fire the weapon. even if you are swinging away from them you can clip them for a backstab
hushed sun
yeah if you stand anywhere remotely closer to the back half of your foe it counts as backstab
cloud barn
no, dont even need to be the back half
you can literally be in front of them with excalibur
dense ore
I done goofed attempting to unlock those "secret" aspects...
hushed sun
o
you mean like the hitbox covers the entire enemy so it counts as backstab?
that's busted lol
random light
hey so
as it turns out
you can get the Explosive Upper and the Double Kick on Demeter Fists
without an anvil
I just got it.
I'm about to have some FUN
random light
actually
dense ore
I spent 5 bloods on stuff that will not help me unlocking the weapons :/
cloud barn
are links allowed in here? i see that I can't directly upload a video, just wanna check first
cloud barn
hushed sun
what lul
cloud barn
backstab is based on the direction you fire the weapon in, so as long as it hits it will backstab
hushed sun
how damn huge is the hitbox
hushed sun
it looks almost as big as normal sword special
cloud barn
7 seconds and 11 seconds are points of interest, if you slow it down you can see that i do kill the pot, as it dies before the spikes activate
rare kayak
hushed sun
what
who needs spears when you have Excalibur
not even remotely close to the sword and just clobbered to death
cloud barn
yep
i think athena attack is the most accurate hitbox visual
hang on lemme try to get a screenshot
proper aspen
How's Magnetic Cutter? Recommended?
cloud barn
personally i find it a bit slow, I prefer demeter as I can play fast but still have good control over my character, which I don't have with the hidden aspect
proper aspen
Does it pull multiple mobs or just one at a time?
cloud barn
i believe just one, could be wrong
unkempt pagoda
you can cancel the pull btw
cloud barn
here is the visual on athena attack, i think it's the closest to the hitbox
note that closest is relative
random light
oh man i just demolished EM4 with Explosive Upper Double Kick
only lost 1 death's defiance the whole run
we improving 
cloud barn
pog
double kick is so fun
i wish the description gave a better picture of the effect
proper aspen
What's the best special boon to go for on Bull Rush Shield build?
random light
So Achilles Spear is good for cast builds right?
If say, I wanted to try to pull off my dream cast build of Mirage Blizzard Shot Stygian Soul with Hermes 0 sec cast CD boon
unkempt pagoda
sure
hallow parcel
hi! im fairly new to the game so i was wondering which boons go best for the fists and the rail??
magic river
athena for fist, lower damage than zeus but much safer
robust anchor
for rail go zeus on attack
limber flax
thats what i wanted to ask too
magic river
rails depends on ur hammer options, if u get can get spread fire get a higher % boon
magic river
people just run zeus on fist and think it's bad lol
ur practically invulnerable with athena since u block every attack
hazy slate
i go zeus or artemis
limber flax
thats what my first win today was
hazy slate
for fists
magic river
but then u have to know how the game works/dodge timings if u go zeus or artemis
otherwise it's death at hades
hazy slate
athena dash
robust anchor
its hard to outdo ME on fist thats why a lot of people like ares attack
hallow parcel
thank you! i heard athena works well on fists haha
magic river
ur invulnerable during dash regardless of athena or not
robust anchor
athena dash very good yes
magic river
it's good, but kinda overrated
limber flax
wouldt you say fists is a rather hard weapon then?
since it requires athena
more or less
hazy slate
its short ranged is its biggest weakness
the hammer that increase fist range is pretty good on it
robust anchor
melee weapon kinda tough with em4 kek
magic river
not really, because u CAN use athena to block 90% of the damage, if u have rails, u can't abuse athena that way
also there's defensive options on hammer upgrade
limber flax
whats em4
robust anchor
extreme measures 4
magic river
the only thing bad about fist is that there's no good offensive options for gilgamesh
hazy slate
thats like, after you escape the underworld for the first time
robust anchor
you gotta escape a few times to unlock it
hearty elbow
There's a lot of misinformation going on around here lol.
magic river
how so?
robust anchor
😔
limber flax
hes about to drop big text
magic river
just to clarify, i meant good offensive hammer options for gilgamesh, bows easily get +100%-300% more damage on theirs, but the highest for gilga is like 30%
ikr lol
hearty elbow
- Divine Dash extends your effective iframes with dash.
- Gilgamesh is the one of the best Merciful End aspects in the game, certainly the best of the fist aspects.
- Not sure what the statement about Rail with Athena is, in particular with aspects that want to attack while dashing, Divine Dash shines (including Fist).
- Divine Strike on fist attack is good, but it's not actual invulnerability. It only covers a small range in front of you and you have a comparatively huge downtime between combos.
magic river
was hoping gilgamesh gets a stacking attack sort of like concentrated knuckles, but with crit chance
- Divine Dash extends your effective iframes with dash.
no one has that long duration of an attack taht u need extended iframes to dodge
neat hound
Consecutive hits boost with Daedalus + Dyonisos on hit + Ares on special is an especially good combo
(on fists)
magic river
- Gilgamesh is the one of the best Merciful End aspects in the game, certainly the best of the fist aspects.
merciful end is 150+50 damage on average on a 3 second cooldown, that's literally 1-2 seconds of attack
neat hound
It melts enemy's health so fast it's crazy
magic river
bows get 50 base damage flurry shot at gilgamesh's attackspeed
and u can get double shot or spread shot with it
doubling/tripling it's dps
not sure what 200 damage from a merciful end combo has to compare with that
simple trail
i used zeus on ramas special with relentless volley and double strike, kinda insane
hearty elbow
Merciful End doesn't have an ICD
magic river
doesn't matter
mighty ermine
ME procs as fast as you can activate it early with a deflect option
hazy slate
yeah
hearty elbow
You can dash like 4 times in like a second with GIlgamesh
mighty ermine
with gilgamesh, it's incredibly fast and with many dash-strikes
hearty elbow
Curse of Agony + Divine Strike
magic river
double shot + base crit on zag bow + flurry shot is 400-500 a hit on a 3 attack per second rate
that's 1500 dps
dash attack is 30 dmg
mighty ermine
the dash-strike damage itself isn't the point lmao
magic river
merciful end is 50 base + 40 from buo boon
hearty elbow
Arguments involving 2 hammers and perfect DPS conditions are pretty lol
simple trail
the dmg comes from ME right
magic river
literally harder to get?
simple trail
duo is easy wdym
hearty elbow
I can't tell what level of Poe's law I'm even listening to right now
Are you trolling or just that bad?
magic river
also high heat runs are about getting it through once
so why does perfect combos matter
and at low heat runs
why does balance matter
hearty elbow
DIsengaging now. Just a heads up to the others, grain of salt this one
hazy slate
this interaction was a bit of a wreck
magic river
i mean if u think 2 merciful end combo which is like 400-500 damage tops
is more than 1500 dps
and DIsengaging now. Just a heads up to the others, grain of salt this one
ur the one with the problem lol
- Divine Strike on fist attack is good, but it's not actual invulnerability. It only covers a small range in front of you and you have a comparatively huge downtime between combos.
you dash before you end the combo to infinitely chain it, i don't want to comment on your skill level but....
simple trail
bro chill out
magic river
??? am i attacking people?
simple trail
you does sound angry
magic river
i mean im just refuting points, if i sounded angry im not, i already bought the game, and the devs don't really have to do anything to it anymore since it is well designed
but these are just the little things that i believe they can improve on, since it is an issue for high run pushes
i mean just look at the streamers pushing high heat, there's a reason it's rail/bow/shield combo (with an occasional spear)
sharp anvil
I ate cheesy rice and beans and it was good
hazy slate
?
hushed sun
interesting debate above lol
magic river
i mean he's arguing with numbers like....
hushed sun
smol reminder, they also snack on 40+ heat runs for lunch
I'm gonna stay out of this lol
oak hamlet
wow good thing i didn't accidentally post my victory screen shot in here
magic river
also why gilgamesh with merciful end, wouldn't zag aspect be better
magic river
it does, i mean i run sword on low heat
but that wasn't the original purpose of the argument
i just wanted a decent hammer for gilgamesh
hushed sun
Gilga is like uber decent in terms of decency but sure 🤔
magic river
yeah but no decent hammer options still
like what would u take on it for damage that's like hey this is good, rather than well i guess this is what i am ok with
it's like 2016 elections
other people get to have bernie
but we get stuck with trump and hillary
hushed sun
yeah, if you're talking about theoretical best possible hammer/boon combo, then sure gilga might not have the best hammers
magic river
but that's the entire problems with fists/swords though
hushed sun
but in terms of what most people can actually do gilga seems nice
hushed sun
wdym no upgrades
magic river
compared to lets say rail/bow/shield
or spear to a degree
like the fist hammers functions well with base fists
hushed sun
ah nvm imma stay out of this, I don't know jack about weapons that are not chiron or rama
hushed sun
also, gilga is like just slower fist with massive built-in doom damage with the dash upper, why would it not work with normal hammers
magic river
yeah but compared to what rails and bow get it's like yeah.....
opal rock
does %attack or %special increase the dmg of boons like Ares' Doom, Zues Lightning, or Dionysus Hangover?
hushed sun
nah
empty veldt
@opal rock no only from global damage increase like eris
hushed sun
^
hearty elbow
Privileged Status and Family Favorites also count as global
empty veldt
@magic river double nova, shadow blade, and arthur exclusive upgrade are all good
covert raven
What does charon give when you max him out?
magic river
would u really go nova slam build with arthur?
empty veldt
@covert raven 7 shots
covert raven
Don't want to waste ambrosia
empty veldt
Oh charon not chiron
magic river
there's nothing that boost what arthur is good at, it's basic attack combo
empty veldt
Shadowblade @magic river
magic river
harder to back stab than nemesis though
hushed sun
"Charon gives you shots, here have some whisky mate"
cloud barn
backstab is based on direction you shoot relative to yourself
super easy to backstab with Arthur
hushed sun
^this lol
covert raven
Wiki is incomplete for affection so I'm asking here
empty veldt
@covert raven just voicelines and icon like anyone else u max out
magic river
alright, maybe arthur is fine
but doesn't change anything for gilga not having a decent damage hammer
cloud barn
example: if you swing straight below you then enemies facing downwards will be backstabbed, even if you are in front of them
empty veldt
||maxing out everyone’s affinity is a requirement for epilogue tho|| @covert raven
covert raven
Oh, haven't maxed anyone out yet so I'll just keep it for the ones who actually benefit me from giving ambrosia.
hearty elbow
@covert raven It's fine, but in the future you should ask similar stuff in #h1-story-discussion. Some people take offense to unlocking info in this channel
hushed sun
exactly but fist doesn't have a decent global damage
do you mean aoe damage
cloud barn
posted this earlier, gonna post it again
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/166692904914518017/759438464931987467/2020-09-26_08-30-10_Trim_Trim.mp4
@magic river
magic river
alright, maybe arthur is fine
but doesn't change anything for gilga not having a decent damage hammer
hearty elbow
Breaching Cross is one of the best hammers in the game, period.
hushed sun
what do you mean by decent damage hammer
in that sense fists just have no decent damage hammer bruv
and that is definitely not true
jesus my typos
magic river
ok what would u go on fist
hushed sun
dunno, I'm not a fist builder but I've seen people chonk hades with fist
cloud barn
Personally on fist I go Aphrodite, Athena, or Demeter on attack. I prefer defensive stuffs.
Artemis or Athena on dash
magic river
.... hammer wise....
cloud barn
o
hushed sun
explosive feels fun, although it wouldn't exactly be the best damage hammer
hallow lava
does boiling blood stack w/ more casts in an enemy
hushed sun
bruv, what do you mean by hammer wise
hearty elbow
He loves his hammers
cloud barn
daedalus upgrades
magic river
hammer upgrades on fist, which options would u pick
empty veldt
Fists? The dash attack one is amazing
hazy slate
explosive upper is nice for fists
hushed sun
hammers is integral to builds in a way that you can't really separate them from builds
hazy slate
at least for demeter
hearty elbow
Either way, Breaching Cross is like, S-tier across every aspect, Explosive Upper is insane on Demeter, Long Knuckle is also very good, but mostly for defensive reasons. It shines the higher heat you go.
hushed sun
assuming you mean rolling knuckles
cloud barn
Breaching Cross and Rolling Knuckle
breaching cross is the one with +900% armor damage
magic river
dash attack is like 1/3 damage of it's normal hits on gilga though
cloud barn
so yeah I'd say that one's a bit better
magic river
so sure breaching cross for armor break
hushed sun
in any way all fist hammers generally feel real nice, especially when you have things like meme spin hammes and cursed slash on other weapons
hearty elbow
If you add 900% damage to anything it stops mattering. Gilgamesh also has the fastest dash strike in the game.
cloud barn
Colossus knuckle is also amazing
hushed sun
not sure why you'd say fist hammers aren't the best
hearty elbow
Lmao your typos today
magic river
doesn't give bow/rail level of damage, so runners don't run it
empty veldt
i'm not the best with gil hammer, although i fine it fun, i suck
hushed sun
big typo
cloud barn
IMO gilgamesh's dash attack is too fast, i cant control myself xD
magic river
like they run it for the catagory
empty veldt
doesn't give bow/rail level of damage, so runners don't run it
@magic river i dont think you can compare it this way
hushed sun
also maimed go with explosive apparently and that was fun
magic river
seed + damage is what makes a run though
hearty elbow
We're less than a month into the patch, and our resident queen of high heat fists is on a school hiatus, so, that's why. Bow is grossly over-represented now because it's basically brand new
dark obsidian
2 of the top 5 any-heat any-weapon unseeded runs are merciful end demeter fists for what it's worth
cloud barn
i love demeter on fists
empty veldt
ironically, for a guy who's name is GoWithTheFlow, he's really not going with the flow of the different weapons lol
hushed sun
also I'm basically a chiron fanboy so
dark obsidian
If we're just taking pure dps
hushed sun
how many also's have we spoken in the last hundred chats
magic river
i mean im ok with running other weapons, just think gilga should get a hammer that fits it, i get it's the newest aspect and all but...
hearty elbow
I'm not even arguing that Gilgamesh is good. It's awful. Probably the worst aspect in the game, but it has a really really good quality with Merciful End.
magic river
also the thing with merciful end
wouldn't literally any other aspects of fists be better with it
cloud barn
hearty elbow
Gilgamesh dash strikes the fastest, and has the most dashes
empty veldt
@hearty elbow What are your thoughts on Hades aspect spear. Haelian doesnt like it.
cloud barn
i like it
magic river
but u can stack doom twice as fast on any other fist?
hearty elbow
@mighty ermine is your man for that one. I've done up to 40 with it personally, I think it's excellent. The nerf to Serrated Point hurt it a lot though.
magic river
i mean the dashes on gilga have to be consecutive
hushed sun
oh
empty veldt
@hearty elbow wait i didnt realize serrated point was nerfed, how is it nerfed and when?
cloud barn
a ton more
hearty elbow
1.0, the dash penalty was increased
empty veldt
Ah ok, well i never played pre 1.0 hades
mighty ermine
I like Hades aspect and have gone up to 52 with it. Serrated Point dash penalty went from -20% to -25%
empty veldt
but yes the dash reduction does hurt
hushed sun
That's why it felt soo janky
empty veldt
@mighty ermine so definitely viable
mighty ermine
for sure
empty veldt
I just dont wanna special spam with Guan Yu all the time
mighty ermine
it likes certain hammers for good damage as much as any other aspect really
hearty elbow
I've done unseeded with total jank and it felt fine at 40 though.
mighty ermine
going basic attack isn't ideal, but it can work up until 40 heat or so easily
magic river
@hearty elbow the dashes on gilga have to be consecutive, so it really doesn't help with merciful end?
hushed sun
max level hades spear is +150% regular attack damage
what lol
empty veldt
@mighty ermine so you would still go for explosive special and charged special i take it for hades aspect
hearty elbow
Curse of Agony applies at the same time as the deflect from Divine Dash
cloud barn
oh wait its special too
mighty ermine
yeah, exploding launcher is the best special option for it
hearty elbow
So dash striking immediately applies the doom and consumes it
hushed sun
so you sweep and go ham?
cloud barn
ye
mighty ermine
serrated point is the best attack-oriented option
cloud barn
marks for 10 seconds
hushed sun
serrated point is the best attack-oriented option
Can vouch, had a fun run yesterday
cloud barn
honestly
hushed sun
although who am I kidding, it was an under 20 run
hearty elbow
If anyone's watched the dubbed Death Note, I always think of the "DELETE" guy when I play Serrated Point Hades lol.
mighty ermine
sweep application is much easier by making use of mini spins, and the dash spin tech to stay extra mobile and safe
hushed sun
i like guan-yu spear because of the attack and special, not the spin
I like it because of the extra spicy health
void zenith
Then mark them all in one fell sweep
empty veldt
@mighty ermine oh yeah, i've been utilizing the dash spin like crazy. Thanks for the input
hearty elbow
I assume most people (including myself) who really disliked Hades at first tried spinning from standing attack.
void zenith
Charge the spin
mighty ermine
holding your spin and hitting dash while still holding down attack
void zenith
Then press dash while charging
hushed sun
if they do I've been living my life wrong
mighty ermine
you can freely aim it
hearty elbow
Pretty similar with people who dislike Rama because they feel the compulsion to Power Shot
cloud barn
dash, press attack and hold it, dash again and u start charging spin where u end up
hushed sun
I've been living my life wrong dammit
void zenith
It does count as dash, too, so you get i-frames
ornate prawn
i did not know spear could do that
mighty ermine
and yeah, standing spin has its place in very niche moments, but 95% of the time you'll do dash spins for positioning
cloud barn
they dont usually
basically dash twice in quick succession
dash-attack during the first and hold it
hearty elbow
Do they not? I know you can dash strike spin with GY as well.
cloud barn
you start charging spin at the start of the 2nd dash
hushed sun
dash, press attack and hold it, dash again and u start charging spin where u end up
wait what
cloud barn
yes
oak hamlet
do ruthless > greater reflex for spear?
worn prism
any thoughts on an aspect of zeus + hunting blades build?
hushed sun
so dash attack, leading into charging up spin, and dash again while charging?
hearty elbow
do ruthless > greater reflex for spear?
@oak hamlet Nope, for no aspects
cloud barn
the dashes are right after each other
no time between
the spin starts charging at the start of the 2nd dash
hearty elbow
any thoughts on an aspect of zeus + hunting blades build?
@worn prism Why Zeus in particular?
hushed sun
wait now people have different techs, lord above
hearty elbow
Truth be told Hunting Blades is good enough that you don't need your aspect at all once you get it but you may as well use Achilles or Poseidon
mighty ermine
you can also dash-strike immediately following a dash spin, with no extra dash needed
hushed sun
oh
cloud barn
ye
mighty ermine
which is very useful for serrated runs
worn prism
tried it a few days ago and it seemed pretty fun, multiple "rifts" on screen with special
i type too slow lol
cloud barn
i shoulda specified
void zenith
I just wanted to clarify the possible confusion
hushed sun
so you get the lunging forward while spin attack-ing motion?
cloud barn
ye, ty
hushed sun
like what hades does?
cloud barn
no
oak hamlet
wow no wonder spear was so awkward for me
oak hamlet
pretty much only built around the special, will try spinning now
hearty elbow
tl;dr You cancel a bunch of stuff into stuff, it's worth playing with dash + attack in the courtyard lol
void zenith
@cloud barn Are you on kb+m? Cause that tech feels pretty awkward on controller
mighty ermine
that's heartbreak pretty sure
cloud barn
yeah
hearty elbow
Probably as a side effect of always taking Owl Pendant and Persuading to Divine Strike lmao
cloud barn
pretty either way
void zenith
I think I'm starting to figure it out
It's like a weird rocking motion across A and X buttons
hushed sun
tl;dr You cancel a bunch of stuff into stuff, it's worth playing with dash + attack in the courtyard lol
while I verify game files, I tried dash spinning several times in the past (before I knew about it) and had no successful results
huh
mighty ermine
you might have been releasing the spin before dashing
you need to hold it and only let go after the dash spin completes
hushed sun
so pika's tech works like dash-hold attack+dash-release?
unkempt pagoda
that gif makes me wonder how many god effects i haven't seen on weapons bc it's not viable to put them on there
hushed sun
you need to hold it and only let go after the dash spin completes
yeah, been doing that
hearty elbow
Lucifer + Tempest Strike is phenomenal
hushed sun
although I might'be been doing something wrong, will try now
hearty elbow
Particle effect wise
unkempt pagoda
i'm sure tempest strike gy spin is awesome looking, but like lol
void zenith
Tbh, I think the dash cancel charge tech might be even better with shield
mighty ermine
keep in mind that the tech in the clip above is incredibly niche and doesn't really need to get used much
still cool though
unkempt pagoda
still think athena has the coolest colors/effects though
hushed sun
AAAUGH
unkempt pagoda
lucy divine flouish is 👌
void zenith
You can start charging into a bull rush straight out of a dash
cloud barn
ye
hushed sun
I HATE it when Zag says "Should check the garden" *RIGHT BEFORE ENTERING HIS ROOM
cloud barn
works with shield too
i just dont like the bull rush much
so didnt think to mention it
void zenith
Dat mobility though
hushed sun
wait so you
hearty elbow
I hate it when Zag says "wont' get more bounties with this much heat" when I've already finished the bounties on that weapon.
Game is unplayable
hushed sun
start charging-dash mid-charge-release to spin?
mighty ermine
zag you won't get more bounties EVER
void zenith
It's more like, you go straight into charging without making another attack after dash
cloud barn
yeah
hearty elbow
Pretty dope on Chaos and Beo
cloud barn
Also it seems like the charge starts at the start of the 2nd dash, might just be me tho
hearty elbow
I didn't know you could do that.
mighty ermine
no yeah that's correct pika
cloud barn
ok cool
void zenith
I think the shield cancels might be legit the fastest movement tech
Cause by the time your bull rush is done your dash has cooled down so you can keep chaining
cloud barn
also you can start it off of a regular attack