h1-builds-and-combat

[covert hatch]

Hhhhuh

Neat

[turbid needle]

That was changed after someone went "Uuuuuuuh I can't reload anymore."

[covert hatch]

Delta Chamber probably still isn't ideal vs Ricochet

But good to know

[turbid needle]

Well, I think you should never take Delta Chamber with Hestia, as a rule.

[rose iron]

Ugh, none of the hidden aspects have unlocked for me yet. I have all the normal ones too

[turbid needle]

Even if you use the regular automatic fire.

[magic dagger]

take delta chamber for the prophecy
then probably never do it again; it's very rarely worth anything

[velvet birch]

Does anyone know how lucky tooth interacts with stubborn defiance? Can you defy death two times?

[sullen valley]

If you’re tired of reloading for any aspect except Hestia, I see its use, I think.

[visual drift]

@velvet birch lucky tooth functions like a normal death defy once you've used stubborn defiance

It won't come back after use

[sullen valley]

It restores only a certain amount of HP, tho, right?

[magic dagger]

@sullen valley 50, 75, 100 depending on rank

[sullen valley]

Yeye

Can the amount restored be affected by anything?

[iron shale]

No

Dont think so

[velvet birch]

@visual drift Thanks!

[iron shale]

Maybe dark kyss of styx?

[sullen valley]

Hum...

[unborn inlet]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but am I right in thinking that the punching gloves are brilliant with some olympians (Say demeter and artemis) and absolutely terrible with others (Poseidon, maybe zeus?)

Like far moreso than any other weapon

[iron shale]

Talos witj poseidon on special

Is ultra fun

[unborn inlet]

I'm not finding the special to be that good tbh?

[barren otter]

fists are excellent with Zeus, every punch triggers chain lightning, which basically doubles the normal damage of fists.

[random crest]

Fists are pretty good with Zeus on Attack from what I've done given how quickly they attack

[iron shale]

Also zeus is decent on attack since such high hitcount

[random crest]

Yea basically

[unborn inlet]

Good to know, if you're going a special build on them, any advice for which olympians?

[iron shale]

Artemis

[sullen valley]

Imagine a full Zeus loadout

Only Zeus boons, keepsake, and max zeus shield

[iron shale]

Aphro attack on demeter fists

And then just crit into high heavens

[sullen valley]

Eh, I prefer Aphrodite (or other high +% Olympians) on special

[random crest]

Though I guess it depends on your aspect for what special you'd want to focus on

[unborn inlet]

Demeter is such a weird olympian, I feel like her boons never show up, or that they show up less than everyone elses.

Probably just confirmation bias

[craggy zinc]

Yeah, when can you unlock Demeter?

[random crest]

You need to reach the final boss at least once

[craggy zinc]

ohhh that explains a lot

[sullen valley]

When you reach the surface I think

Don’t need to win, or lose.

[unborn inlet]

Oh lol. I played the beta and reset my profile so I made it to the boss on my first run

[random crest]

Yea once you get there, she should show up on your next run

[unborn inlet]

So I've just had demeter since the start.

[sullen valley]

It’s strange how she’s the only Boon-giving Olympian that has a prerequisite

[craggy zinc]

tbh I just started with a fresh file because I wanted to play the Switch version

[unborn inlet]

I made a fresh file for all the story bits I'd miss out on.

[craggy zinc]

that was also part of it too

my fav discovery so far (minor spoiler) is that ||Meg will comment on your first time you accept a boon from Chaos||

[random crest]

Huh, interesting

[unborn inlet]

? Didn't happen with me.

Maybe I haven't got it yet, story and dialogue is weird cause of how fast I'm going

[random crest]

Yea, that's one reason I can see starting a new file feeling weird at this point

Being able to actually beat things would make other events that take a long time feel odd

[craggy zinc]

See, I suck at Hades, so I'm getting the convos at a normal-ish pace

[unborn inlet]

Like it all makes sense, but feels very out of place ocasionally getting a conversation that's like, AH YOU MADE IT TO THE SURFACE when Orpheus hasn't even arrived etc.

[random crest]

Yea it makes sense but it definitely would feel weird

[unborn inlet]

Here anybody got combat tactics for using the gloves against armoured dudes in Elysium? I feel like I'm gonna get my ass sliced in two when I get there.

[idle oak]

bait out an attack by getting near them, and dash right before they attack. They get their shield stuck in the ground, dash behind them and attack

[unborn inlet]

Ah dash tactics, my mortal enemy.

[sullen valley]

You can also just abuse dash attacking and IV frames by swarming them.

This is more effective against singular targets.
Remember those attack patterns, and how they attack!

[random crest]

Yea. And I'd still recommend something like Zeus on attack or something that's got a decent way of handling crowds of them

[unborn inlet]

The attack patterns of the spearmen give me an ungodly hernia.

[random crest]

At least if you're running fists

[sullen valley]

Uppercut hits multiple people twice, so that’s nice

also oof

[random crest]

yea the uppercut has a pretty generous hitbox. If you can get something like Explosive Upper that can help a lot with Crowd control

Get that and Aphrodite or Demeter special and you should be alright for crowds

[covert hatch]

Okay I am super bad at getting a read on these Hammer mods for the Fists

[unborn inlet]

You're not alone.

[covert hatch]

I've got Dionysus on my Attack and my options are Kinetic Launcher, Rush Kick, and Colossal Knuckle

[sullen valley]

Define “reads”?

[covert hatch]

Just like, which ones are good and which ones are less good at a current moment

[sullen valley]

What does Kinetic and Colossal again?

And what’s your Aspect?

[random crest]

Colossal is the one that makes you sturdy while you attack and special, I believe

[covert hatch]

Your special is a charged shot that does 50 base, you become Sturdy during attack and special, and just plain Zagreus max rank

[sullen valley]

That’s Kinetic or Colossal, Lion?

[idle oak]

Think about how you're playing. If you're using the special a lot more than just attacking, then hammer upgrades that significantly change the way that move works wouldn't work for your current playstyle.

[covert hatch]

Kinetic is the charge shot and Colossal is Sturdy while using attack or special

It's super early on so I'm pretty open to a change at the current moment

[sullen valley]

Ah hum. I would prefer Kinetic out of all of those since it doesn’t really change my style

at least compared to the alternatives

[random crest]

I have heard Rush kick is pretty good but I know very little about it given I use Talos all the time

[sullen valley]

Rush kick is good for closing distance, I say

[covert hatch]

I've also literally never taken any of these lol

I'll give it a shot

[sullen valley]

Evasion too, I think?

Oof

[random crest]

I mean I know it isn't bad anyways

And with Dio on attack your run should still be alright either way

[sullen valley]

Actually I feel like Colossal would’ve been my ch-

[covert hatch]

Colossal is definitely what I'd have called the safe pick of the three

[sullen valley]

W-well cya, Whittaker! Hope you enjoy the cola!

[random crest]

I mean, Colossal is okay but I just don't feel it does that much

At least compared to some other much more impactful hammers

[sullen valley]

Same

[random crest]

It just seems to me like there's a good few hammers that make the fists a lot stronger that I prefer

And for defensive Hammers, draining cutter is way better

I know you're not gonna always get the best hammer upgrades on every run, but I still rarely think it's that worth using Colossal unless other stuff would mess up your run

But maybe that's just me wanting big damage all the time

[covert hatch]

Truth

I know there's a couple Hammers across the board that I'm just pretty tepid on

[magic dagger]

kinetic launcher with athena special is hilarious

[sullen valley]

Beeg

[covert hatch]

I never get the World Splitter one for the sword to work how I want for example

[random crest]

I've found it definitely can work

I forget what run it was exactly as I used it to get one of my first wins, I just know crits on it are dumb

[covert hatch]

The hitbox is weird on it, I find

[iron shale]

i really love world splitter with a artemis build

on nemesis

[sullen valley]

You can cancel world splitter by dashing, right?

[random crest]

Speaking of Nemesis and artemis

That reminds me of a really dumb build I got yesterday

Where I got only artemis boons in Tartarus

[sullen valley]

Pfffft

[random crest]

Which eventually made it so literally everything I had could crit

Cause I got her Dash, Special, and Cast

[iron shale]

dash doesnt crit though

[random crest]

And then got Aphrodite attack and Heart Rend

[sullen valley]

I wanna hack the game solely to get “[God/dess] only” runs just to have fun with that

[iron shale]

[random crest]

Well

I guess you got me there

The results were pretty hilarious though

[sullen valley]

...Can I talk about how quickly Rama kills?

[random crest]

You can

There's a reason it's my favorite bow aspect

[sullen valley]

Heccin- Dio Special, Aphro Attack.

That’s it.

[random crest]

I mean

Aphro attack on Rama is always amazing

[sullen valley]

I forgot what else I got but that kills pretty effectively.

[random crest]

Combine it with Dual shot and it deletes things

[sullen valley]

Pfffft

[random crest]

I got it with Dual shot and then got bouncing shot on top of that

It hit for 1000 damage with a power shot without shared suffering included

[sullen valley]

I got .blank with it but I didn’t feel the hammers other than .blank (even then, not by a lot, since I like my distance).

[magic dagger]

...Can I talk about how quickly Rama kills?
twin shot + explosive shot
it's the ultimate melee build

[random crest]

I don't like explosive shot on Rama given how slow it already charges

[sullen valley]

Bruh, I think I got that one time before Rama’s draw speed was buffed

[random crest]

But Twin shot is amazing

[sullen valley]

I hated it

So much

[random crest]

I would think that Point blank shot would be better with dual shot if you wanna go for that

[sullen valley]

It was literally a melee build but you’re completely immobile

[magic dagger]

you don't even need to charge it
if you have both you can dash-strike at point blank, and things just die

[sullen valley]

I think I talked about that sometime earlier...

[random crest]

I guess I can see that working

[magic dagger]

Tailesque is here!

[random crest]

I still just don't like how slow it would charge at that rate, feels like it'd make Rama too inflexible for how I like using it

[magic dagger]

@mighty ermine 👋

[mighty ermine]

twin shot aphro rama was exactly what i did at 43 heat recently haha, it really is just so good

[random crest]

Cause that's some of the few cases where I feel Rama can have issues, in Elysium when you just get swarmed by fast enemies

[mighty ermine]

was a wing-it run that turned out totally successful

[random crest]

Though maybe that's just cause I run Forced Overtime on most runs

But yea, Rama is super fun and does dumb damage

Also find it to be fun to run a special build with it if you can get the +4 special shots hammer early

Getting that with Demeter is dumb

[shut moth]

Does anyone know if increases in special attack damage increases the damage from ||Gilgamesh's Rend ability?||

i feel like it should

[sullen valley]

Bwugh, couldn’t find it

I think the effect is a different damage calculation, not effected by your Special itself.

[shut moth]

also i love how you can just hold attack and dash with ||Gilgamesh ||and go on a rampage.

[random crest]

It's pretty fun yea

[sullen valley]

Like, “Aphro+Special Damage, ||Maim|| Damage”

[shut moth]

i was really hoping it was effected by special damage, since it is an innate part of your special

[sullen valley]

I could probably test it out...without any general-damage modifiers

[shut moth]

i don't think i have any damage modifiers, so i can test it out once this chaos boon takes effect

[covert hatch]

Seeking Arrow on the fists? Yes please

[shut moth]

maybe

[random crest]

I'd be curious to see

[shut moth]

seeking arrow on fists or gun is INSANE

Great synergy with Doom and ||Maim||, since Doom hits before the damage bonus wears off.

makes doom 50% more effective

[random crest]

Seeking Arrow is what again?

[sullen valley]

...Y’know I just realized it’s almost not worth it applying ||maim|| to anything you can easily kill without it

[shut moth]

every attack hit shoots an arrow

[sullen valley]

(I.e. everything in Tartarus)

[covert hatch]

Launch a arrow per attack hit, special, or cast for some damage

[random crest]

Oh you Mean Support fire?

[covert hatch]

That is exactly what I mean

Seeking Arrow is the Call isn't it

[shut moth]

yeah but use it on a big guy then kill all the little ones while he explodes

no i think seeking arrow is the cast

[sullen valley]

Yeah that’s true

True Shot is the cast

[random crest]

No the Cast is True shot

[shut moth]

anyway im gonna see if this hit does 350 or more. if it's more, then hell yes

also Amusing Chaos better unlock this time

[sullen valley]

lol

[random crest]

Otherwise

I just recently maxed out Zeus Shield, any recommendations of what to try with it?

I was thinking either Dio or Demeter

[mighty ermine]

definitely thunder flourish

[shut moth]

Hunter dash + ||Gilgamesh|| = TRUE RAMPAGE MODE

Dio is a great choice

[random crest]

I can see that being very strong on it too

[mighty ermine]

the T2s and splitting bolt are also just great snowballing add-ons

[shut moth]

anything that procs repeatedly or stacks

doom if you get the one that makes it stack

[random crest]

That's why I was thinking Dio or Demeter cause then I can stack either Hangover or Chill

[shut moth]

i prefer hangover then calling the shield back

i really like Zeus aspect over Chaos. both good though

[dry ember]

Alternatively you can try the speedrun build with Zeus Shield

[random crest]

I'm also partially trying it over the new Chaos cause Chaos feels like it got nerfed into the ground for me, at least for how fun it used to feel

[dry ember]

Doom on Special, Deflect on Attack, look for Merciful End (you need it)

[random crest]

Yea I can see that being ridiculous

[sullen valley]

...L is like, the only Aspect of it’s “category” that attacks quickly, right?

Every other Aspect is slower

[shut moth]

okay

it didn't work

[sullen valley]

*Guan Yu, Arthur, Beowulf, New Guy”

Yeah I thought so, 😔

[random crest]

I had a feeling

Still sad

[shut moth]

||Maim|| is NOT affected by Special Attack up.

still strong

[random crest]

Yea definitely

I still get the feeling I'm gonna prefer Talos though

[shut moth]

i haven't used Demeter, but the super uppercut sounds fun

[wise aspen]

i like zag fists cus dodge

[random crest]

It sounds interesting but I feel like it'd take too long to charge up for me

[wise aspen]

even if its not that much

[random crest]

I just really like how Talos' ability to pull enemies feels

[shut moth]

i still need the daedalus prophecy for fists and gun

[random crest]

Plus it gives the fist at least some semblance of range, if untraditionally

[shut moth]

Talos only works if you scream "Get over here" in real life every time you use it.

[sullen valley]

Eh, you’re fighting a lot anyway with the fists. Demeter charges up easily

[wise aspen]

zag fists dodge + hermes dodge + ruthless reflex

[sullen valley]

Apparently that’s multiplicative.

[timid pawn]

does Side Hustle work for temple of styx rooms?

[dry ember]

I can hear the devs laugh in multiplicative stacking

[sullen valley]

I tried that combo, it was aight

[timid pawn]

or does a corridor count as 1?

[random crest]

I can see why people would like Demeter I just like Talos' ability to pull people to you

[wise aspen]

@timid pawn yes

[sullen valley]

Yes, Jay

It works

[random crest]

It works for other things like that

I see no reason why Side Hustle would be any different

[wise aspen]

each screen transition procs side hustle

[timid pawn]

so like + 80 coins per corridor?

holy crap

[sullen valley]

Lmao

[random crest]

||It's why one of the new trinkets there is dumb||

[shut moth]

okay im gonna finish this run (hopefully) If Chaos is still not amused im doing a bug report

[sullen valley]

...Oh. That’s, good to note, Min.

[random crest]

Yea

That works

Oh

[shut moth]

i still don't know who gives the new trinket or companion. i have hunches though. don't tell me

[sullen valley]

What, the ||Egg Quest||?

[random crest]

But yea

[sullen valley]

You got told by Chaos, right?

[random crest]

That combo definitely works in Styx very well

||Honestly I like that new Trinket a lot, feels appropriately strong||

Also Eris getting buffed made Eris + Zeus attack utterly insane

[dry ember]

Try Curse of Drowning with Eris

You can thank me later

[random crest]

Oh

I honestly haven't ever gotten Curse of Drowning so I didn't think of that

[steel rampart]

why can hunter dash be good w bow ?

[random crest]

Because generally you want to always be dash attacking with the bow because it charges faster

[barren otter]

dash strikes charge faster than normal attacks on the bow

they do a bit less damage, but by dash striking you will be more mobile and shooting more often.

[random crest]

Basically

Usually the slightly lower damage is worth being able to get to perfect shots faster

And if you get the right Chaos boons or stuff like Hunter dash, you can make the dash strikes hit hard

And by that I mean extremely hard

This has made me realize that I should really use Hunter Dash on Rama

Why didn't I think of this before

[steel rampart]

ahh okay

im not super used to dash strikes w bow? with a lot of the runs i do with bow i have that one boon that just. lets you fire repeatedly

[random crest]

Yea, the bow takes a good bit of getting used to

I'd recommend practicing the timing of getting perfect shots with the dash strikes, once you do that the damage output of the bow becomes much better regardless of what boons you've got on it

Though I guess what you're going for exactly depends on what Aspect you're using on it

What aspect are you using on it anyways?

[fervent hare]

Is there a consensus opinion on whether to use Infernal Soul vs Stygian Soul in the mirror?

[jade rover]

Does thesius' spin linger or something? I can't seem to get out of it with Dash I frames

[shut moth]

Demeter's Fists + Explosive upper is a really good combo

[modest zodiac]

does the artemis attack boon affect dash strikes too

i couldnt get the dash strike boon but even w the attack one i was critting fairly often w nemesis

[dry ember]

Yes

[magic dagger]

attack boons always affect dash-strikes
hammer boons that affect attack usually don't affect dash-strikes
dash-strike boons never affect attack

may this prove a boon to you in your journey through hell

[modest zodiac]

ahh, thank you

maybe nemesis + dash strike artemis isnt for me then

nemesis + attack artemis + divine dash works better

because im very good at dying

[hollow minnow]

Not sure which area this would go under, but has anyone noticed a difference in the Chaos Aspect of the Shield??? Patch Notes said they'd changed it, but now I feel like it hardly activates when I click, and they barely hit anything!! The extra shield used to go out in a star-like pattern but now they just go ahead of you in a small spread and never seem to hit?!?!!? Is anyone else confused or disappointed??? 😦 😦 😦 😦 I don't know why it was changed...

[dry ember]

They changed Chaos yes

We can only speculate on why it was changed

But not hard to imagine

[magic dagger]

it is now a shotgun

[dry ember]

It was essentially a free ticket to 32 heat run

[magic dagger]

(someone beat max heat with the old version)

[dry ember]

Just about any special works on it

So yeah. I won't cry over it.

[hollow minnow]

max heat?! I only got up to 12 on my old save and now I have to start all over. It's kinda scary in a way?

No, sorry, I'm not "crying over it", I'm just--very startled--at the change, I guess it'll take me a while to get used to HOW it works, because I can't tell if the game is delaying my actions or maybe my computer mouse is dying...? The shields just never seem to work and I'm just confused. :/ 😢

[timid pawn]

what's an easy 8 heat run? 2 on extreme measures + max forced overtime?

[magic dagger]

I wouldn't say that's an easy 8 heat run, but it is a good way to get better at the game

[wintry swan]

Hey quick question, does dislodge damage still apply with sygian soul regening?

[magic dagger]

yep!

[wintry swan]

Awesome thank you!

So its basically better in every aspect then

coolio

secondary question is it worth the bonus for having one less dodge?

I feel like it would be super hard to actually get out of some attacks

but maybe I'm too reliant on dodge spam?

[magic dagger]

only you can decide that one

it's a nice damage boost if you're good at dashing right next to enemy attacks, and can survive having one dash instead of two

[wintry swan]

I guess its time for me to git gud

anyways ty for the help

I appreciate it!

[gray moon]

so what are the thoughs on these new keepsakes? ||Persephone's seems strong, while Hades's seems meh||

[bronze sorrel]

My thoughts are "how many times do I have to beat the game to get the opportunity to offer either of them a nectar"

[gray moon]

for ||Persephone,|| its about 10 times

||Hades|| shortly after that

[bronze sorrel]

Ok, getting close then.

I got the "I have to fix this" one on my last run, felt like getting close to the epilogue.

[gray moon]

yea, that is one of the last ones

[bronze sorrel]

I'm almost tempted to stay up and do another run, but it is late in my time zone.

What all do the new keepsakes do? I haven't even seen yet? I'm not worried about spoiling mechanics, though maybe spoil tag for other people.

[gray moon]

|||Persephone gives a free random boon upgrade ever 6/5/4 encounters||

[bronze sorrel]

O.o

[untold vortex]

who the new keepsakes are from is still considered spoilers @gray moon

[gray moon]

so are some spoilers not ok here hten?

[untold vortex]

same as #h1-story-discussion, brand new content should be spoiler tagged please and thankyou

[gray moon]

fair enough, though, tbh, its pretty obvious which characters give the new keepsakes

i mean, not a lot of options, really

any who ||Hades: your Aid becomes Hades's Aid, which makes you invisible for 2 seconds (5 seconds at max)||

[untold vortex]

there's been enough questions asking who you get them from, that it's not entirely obvious

[magic dagger]

also, there are a whole lot of completely new players here

who would not have seen the pre-launch cast

[untold vortex]

also please spoiler tag the previous messages name dropping new character @gray moon

[bronze sorrel]

also, there are a whole lot of completely new players here
@magic dagger

Ya, holy moly there are.

[untold vortex]

ty ^_^

[gray moon]

i hope i got them all

[untold vortex]

missed one, regarding ||Hades keepsake||

[bronze sorrel]

What do you all think of the new Zag aspect Stygius?

With the attack speed

[gray moon]

I dislike the sword too much to use it. I stick only to Excalibur

[bronze sorrel]

Rly? I love all the swords.

Nemesis is a bit bland I'll grant you

[gray moon]

but at 15% faster attack rate is obviously pretty significant.

I just dislike the basic moveset

[iron shale]

@bronze sorrel the first keepsake fuzzician said is wrong btw

||its only a free random pom upgrade not a boon||

[gray moon]

oh lool, what a typo

yes, that's correct

[bronze sorrel]

Oh ok, thats also good. More thematic too.

[gray moon]

corrected

i think its really strong

because ||it works with the small rooms in Styx||

[rare kayak]

nemesis is bland but

its also very good at outputting damage

30% crit is huge

[iron shale]

yeah nemesis is soo good

[bronze sorrel]

Well yes, no one is denying that

[iron shale]

jsut go artemis attack and artemis dash

[bronze sorrel]

Rly, I thought Aphrodite attack was preferable

[gray moon]

Nemesis can outdamage Excalibur?

I have had 1k damage backstabs with that thing

[iron shale]

i mean

its a void discussion

[bronze sorrel]

Yes, especially for big rooms and fast enemies

[iron shale]

exca has higher base

but nemesis has easier crits

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[gray moon]

crit is a simple damage translation

30% crit is 60% more damage, fully stackable

though, with Excalibur, DPs goes down a lot if you can't reliably land the last swing

[bronze sorrel]

I mean Excalibur is gonna hold the big number records, but Nem wins for DPS and clear speed

[cunning urchin]

It's not really a competition. Excalibur doesn't come close to the DPS potential of Nemesis Aspect.

[bronze sorrel]

So what fun builds can we do with Zag aspect now that stand apart from the Nemesis builds?

[cunning urchin]

Er.

[iron shale]

zeus ?

[bronze sorrel]

I had a decent (by my standards anyway) run earlier with drunken strike. About 20 min on the game clock.

Still felt like a weaker Malphon tho

[cunning urchin]

Base damage of attacks is unchanged, so you'd still go for the same boons.

Try different hammer upgrades, though.

Stuff like World Splitter maybe since you have an Attack Speed buff already.

[charred ruin]

what's a good build for shield that does decent damage? which aspect+boons to use?

[bronze sorrel]

Oh jeez, I didn't even think of that

[cunning urchin]

Lambent Plume for even more movement speed?

[bronze sorrel]

I did run plume

I was hoping to try a cheesy rush delivery build but didn't pan out

[winged wave]

Whats the fastest clear atm w no heat

[cunning urchin]

I think Lambent Plume runs are more meme runs, though, or for lower heats.

https://www.speedrun.com/hades#Any_Heat

8m 10s.

[bronze sorrel]

Oh I thought there was an under 7? Guess I'm wrong.

[cunning urchin]

@winged wave Beowulf, Heartbreak Flourish, Passion Flare. Aim for Zeus' Aid and Smoldering Air.

Maybe it's not verified on the board yet.

[bronze sorrel]

I could also just be wrong

I'm wrong alot

[dreamy marsh]

wait how tf do u finish a run in 8 mins

[cunning urchin]

Ask @steady hatch lol.

@winged wave and make sure you use Infernal Soul with Beowulf. Stygian Soul on Beowulf is worse than Infernal Soul with just 1 ammo.

The cast doesn't lodge with Beowulf, so you can just pick it up immediately again.

[bronze sorrel]

When are they gonna be getting you in the Hermes cup Nyaanyaa? Seems like your cup of tea.

[cunning urchin]

But Stygian Soul, you have to wait a few seconds for it to regenerate.

I have zero interest in doing speedruns lol.

[dreamy marsh]

is lucky tooth worth levelling up

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, all the keepsakes are worth leveling up.

[bronze sorrel]

Just high heat for you?

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

[bronze sorrel]

What heat are you up to now?

[cunning urchin]

As in working on or the highest I've done?

[bronze sorrel]

Idk either or

[cunning urchin]

lol

[turbid needle]

to get excalibur do I have to unlock guan yu to get the cutscene or do I just have guan yu selectable for unlock?

[cunning urchin]

I've done 52 with Beowulf, which is top 4 together with Tailesque.

But I got it first, so I'm top 3.

[bronze sorrel]

O.o

[cunning urchin]

It was WR at the time, but evil Haelian beat it like the same week, and then bablo a bit after that. Those evil people.

[turbid needle]

also what does hellmode do?

[cunning urchin]

And the heat I work on now is high school.

[dreamy marsh]

i feel that

[bronze sorrel]

Well dang. I'm still working up to my second statue lol

[cunning urchin]

@turbid needle Hell Mode has 4 pacts at rank 1 by default that you can't turn off and an extra pact that's always on: Personal Liability.

Personal Liability removes the brief invulnerability you get when you take damage that's 25% or more of your current max HP.

[bronze sorrel]

Did you do all the heat levels below that before you did the 52 heat run? Or just skipped straight to 52 heat?

[cunning urchin]

I did 1–20 with Malphon, then 32 with Malphon, then 41 with Malphon. Then 20 → 32 → 41 with Hestia. Then 41 → 52 with Beowulf.

41 with Malphon was WR for Malphon at the time. That was when there were only 3 or 4 people who'd done 40+ yet.

[bronze sorrel]

I'm still so bad with Hestia lol. I can't aim to save my life if I don't have that skill shot pointer.

[cunning urchin]

I just use auto-aim on pad.

[bronze sorrel]

I somehow manage to miss with or without auto aim. Its kinda incredible really. I have anti-talent.

I'm on K&M too, which I assume is easier for aiming.

[cunning urchin]

Auto-aim doesn't lead the target, so you have to keep their movement in mind before you shoot. Missing targets hurts your DPS more than repositioning a little bit or just waiting for a better moment to shoot.

[bronze sorrel]

I think I just panic and miss alot honestly. I'm in to much of a bad habit from melee weapons of just mashing dash attack, I think.

[cunning urchin]

Hm.

You can learn fundamentals very well with melee weapons. With good fundamentals, Hestia is super easy to use.

It's not a very difficult weapon.

Only thing you need to be aware of is that you should be moving when you press reload. If you're standing still when you press reload, you're locked in the reload animation and can't move.

But if you're already running, you can keep running while you're reloading.

[bronze sorrel]

Hmm, didn't realize that about the move and reload bit.

But ya, I'm sure its an easy weapon and I'm just bad. Its pretty simple on paper. But ya, its some combination of me having bad habits, nerves in a boss fight, and not estimating hit boxes well.

I do pretty good the first 2/3 of the game and then Asterius and Hades demolish me.

[gray moon]

now, with the bow damage buff, the power-shot ability seems meh, only adding a little bit of damage. Flurry Shot, meanwhile, seems insane now.

[queen moth]

Any tips to get more dmg out of the sword?

Should I start with a specific boon?

The Poseidon knockback seems p good, but it ultimately fails to burst down even the Guards in Elysium

[untold vortex]

which sword aspect?

[queen moth]

What do you mean?

I havent upgraded anything with Titanblood yet, if that's it

Haven't defeated Hades yet, not completely at least

[untold vortex]

ahhh okies

a lot of things work well of base sword
recently I've liked going all in on zeus, attack, jolted, extra lightning pings between enemies, splitting bolt, hermes attack speed up

the flurry blade hammer is nice on the build too

[queen moth]

I didn't have much luck with the Daedalus Enhancements, it was p much all crap every time

The sword attacks too slow to use a lot of the force multipliers

I might try out some deflect shenanigans

[untold vortex]

deflect shenanigans are always fun :3

[queen moth]

It's p good, yeah

I'm at my 22th Escape attempt now and the sword is the only weapon that doesn't bring me to Hades easily

Maybs I should take Aspect of Nemesis, what do you think?

[untold vortex]

any of the sword aspects are worth taking imo

[queen moth]

Aight

I got the Nemesis Aspect and deflect on Attack

It works really well now

[turbid needle]

does anyone know if em3 stops the hidden aspect dialouge with asterius to trigger

[barren otter]

it shouldn't

[turbid needle]

okay thx

[cunning urchin]

I didn't get it yet without EM3, either. Probably RNG like always.

[turbid needle]

well rip

[hollow sage]

anyone have any good rail tips? I'm struggling to beat a run with it, i've done every other weapon. my most successful run was mostly spamming the rocket special, which seems like the thing that makes the special usable at all

[turbid needle]

put zeus on attack

[hollow sage]

thanks. any good synergies to shoot for?

[turbid needle]

if you go for zeus you kinda just want to go through with his boon tree and get to splitting bolt

otherwise its really whatever whats on the other slots I think

I beat charon twice in a row and didnt trigger hermes to say anything about it in like...3 runs now 🤔

is it only fullfilled if I beat charon twice in a row back to back in two consecutive runs

[hard holly]

Flurry Fire hammer is good

Otherwise, Zeus Attack, Zeus Legendary and support fire

[rare kayak]

nah

did the minor prophecy trigger

you need to get hermes to tellyou about the bet between him and charon

[turbid needle]

yeah

[rare kayak]

did the list of minor prophecies trigger

[turbid needle]

what

I have the bet on my list if you're asking that

[rare kayak]

huh

then i have no clue

[turbid needle]

thats why im confused

[rare kayak]

it works as long as you win afaik, i even got it by beating charon after beating him once like three runs ago with hermes telling me about the bet one run ago

[turbid needle]

maybe hermes is just going through other priority dialouge or something

[minor pollen]

Is it just me or is the spear op

[turbid needle]

its not rly op

[minor pollen]

I mean if you get an special upgrade it's preety much over

[turbid needle]

its not that much better as othr wepons

but every weapon has like really good aspects

[autumn salmon]

For demeters aspect, is it better to go for a damage bonus on special or try to obtain jolted or doom?

[fallen pond]

i don't know why but last fist aspect feels clunky to me
anybody else think the same ?
doesn't feels as smooth compare to other aspect of fist twin, like the one from demeter fist, feels smoother doing the sequence and also using special compare to 4th aspect of twin fist
(not saying names because i don't like giving spoilers)

thoughts ?

[rare kayak]

i like it because it feels chunkier

[gilded knoll]

It is a bit clunky

[fallen pond]

[rare kayak]

plus since it swings in an arc it hits easier kinda

the extra dashes are a bit weird though

[fallen pond]

i don't know i like the dash strike but the dash special is...just odd or clunky

[rare kayak]

yeah putting the special ability on the dash special is kinda odd

[gilded knoll]

Enemies doing more damage is terrifying

[fallen pond]

like.....doesn't feel smooth like demeter

[cunning urchin]

@autumn salmon why not both?

[rare kayak]

makes sense though since its a gamble so you attach it to the least used option

[fallen pond]

Demeter sequence and then special feels way smoother compare to 4th aspect of twin fist

[cunning urchin]

Unless you mean Doom on Special, then definitely no.

You want a +% Flourish.

[rare kayak]

hm

[autumn salmon]

got lighting+jolted on special now. just leveling trinkets atm (rn its the pierced butterfly)

ah

[rare kayak]

i should invest more blood into demeter

[autumn salmon]

guessed as much

[cunning urchin]

Doom or Lightning on Attack is strong, though.

[autumn salmon]

its only Jury summons rn so not really a big loss

[fallen pond]

i need 240 more titan blood and i will have everything maxed 😎

[clear dome]

how does spread fire hestia work?

[autumn salmon]

with what i got rn its reflect atk, thunder flourish (just got speed boost on special) and hunter dash

[cunning urchin]

I'd sell the Thunder Flourish at the first opportunity, personally.

@clear dome Hestia's Empowered Shot is unaffected by Spread Fire.

[clear dome]

goddammit

thanks

[rare kayak]

but yeah i do like the hidden aspect's wider attack range

jury's still out on whether its worth giving up the attack speed for it though

[cunning urchin]

@empty robin that's not a bug. You're doing a Dash-Upper before you charge the Flying Cutter. That's why that happens.

[clear dome]

hestia gun feels like wannabe bow

[cunning urchin]

More like bow wishes it was Hestia.

Hestia is one of the best weapons in the game. Its mobility is unparalleled.

[rare kayak]

which one is flying cutter again

[cunning urchin]

The one where he . . . flies.

[rare kayak]

dont remember the fist hammers

oh its just the typical charge special for more

no wonder i dont remember it

[clear dome]

ye i see Hestia is better than bow, at level 3

[rare kayak]

man im so bad with the bow lol i had a run earlier with purp level 3 artemis attack and explosive shot

but i still missed everything

when i hit though the crit was fun

how do you play hestia anyway is it reload fire clean up with remaining shots then repeat

[cunning urchin]

You play it as a sniper rifle, basically.

Reload > fire > repeat.

[rare kayak]

yeah alright just what i guessed

ugh another aspect to invest blood in

[clear dome]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/627158378325737494/757239299140878347/20200920204304_1.jpg?width=1059&height=596 so i just won with this "build"

[cunning urchin]

#h1-victory-boasting is over there.

[rare kayak]

zeus special on rama bow

the classic

[half crater]

how to play hestia:
-step one: learn to not miss
-step two: idk i haven’t passed step one
-step three: profit

[clear dome]

i am blind, yes

[rare kayak]

but yeah that bow run was basically entirely attributed to patroclus

chamber 34 appearance while i was out of dds

what a legend

[autumn salmon]

since i dont have rava yet. whats this shared suffering?

[rare kayak]

admittedly i still had to go through 3 chambers with no dds and like 20 health but

[cunning urchin]

I just died on 40 heat with bow because the stupid sack was in tunnel 3.

[proud storm]

enemies affected by shared suffering take 60% of the damage you inflict with your attack on any enemy

(at max aspect level)

[rare kayak]

hit enemy with special, get debuff that damages them when you hit an enemy with an attack

it works even if you hit the same enemy

[autumn salmon]

that sounds pretty gut. whats the catch

[rare kayak]

so if you attack an enemy with it its basically 1.6x damage

the attack is slow

its wide though but it charges slow

i think

[proud storm]

and the special isnt a reliable source of damage

[half crater]

the attack is slow
rama is actually a melee weapon

[rare kayak]

special basically needs zeus

or you cry

i like how a lot of the hidden aspects is just original aspect but slower and more damage

well that over simplification by a lot

but still

[half crater]

yeah there’s a bit of a theme

[rare kayak]

especially sword

[half crater]

lucifer just does its own thing tho i guess

[proud storm]

lucifer aspect is something else entirely

[rare kayak]

well excalibur is pretty ridiculous with the sisy keepsake though

[proud storm]

guan yu/beowulf/gilgamesh aspects give you debuffs

[rare kayak]

eh gilgamesh's isnt really a debuff

its vluntary

[proud storm]

yeah not until you use your dash-special

[rare kayak]

not forced on you like beo and guan

[proud storm]

yeah

[rare kayak]

i do like it though

its like better doom

speaking of which anyone deflected achilles spear while hes calling ares

does it doom him?

[proud storm]

no idea

[untold vortex]

yes and no, doom is still incredible with Merciful End builds

[clear dome]

Achilles sprar?

[proud storm]

they probably meant theseus'

[rare kayak]

wait yeah theseus

had my mind scrambled by the pat conbo where he says achilles should be champ

[clear dome]

I thought that an achilles bossfight exist for a moment

[rare kayak]

yeah thats em5

[proud storm]

dusa superboss

[rare kayak]

secrets sgg doesnt want to tell you

also true doom is pretty sick with the right duos

merciful end is the classic but im pretty impartial to the aphro one too

[half crater]

why not both

[cunning urchin]

Because they have anti-synergy.

[half crater]

wait, really?

[rare kayak]

i think end cancels the current doom

[half crater]

oh, i guess you can’t reapply doom until you’re done with the old one?

never thought of that

[rare kayak]

so you dont get the benefit from the aphro duo

curse of longing

[half crater]

haven’t actually done that build, just thought it’d be neat

obviously not lol

[rare kayak]

essentially basically theres no point to having curse of longing if youre just immediately triggering the doom with end

[half crater]

yeah makes sense

[rare kayak]

you can still take it to purge it for a sick 450gs later though

if you dont have a better choice

[cunning urchin]

gs

Gobols.

[rare kayak]

is gold

is multiple

[cunning urchin]

No.

[rare kayak]

gs

[cunning urchin]

Gobols.

[clear dome]

Gobbles

[rare kayak]

man i feel like they really increased the frequency of hades going invis in update

or maybe its just the voiceline

[clear dome]

Is the butt ball teleporting new or just middle management?

[rare kayak]

they should add a chance for zag to say "darkness" in a mocking tone whenever hades says it

middle management

dArKnEsS

[stoic thicket]

So, anyone has a favorite Chiron build that isn't Sea Storm?

[rare kayak]

iunno maybe dionysus

i just run zag bow because no blood

[clear dome]

Hail Restitutor Orbis

Use Demeter

[rare kayak]

oh yeah demeter plus that one boon that does damage when chill 10

might have something there

[cunning urchin]

Teleporting Soulcatcher miniboss is MM.

[clear dome]

Is the Aurelian guy the true Aurelian?

[rare kayak]

its still really easy compared to medusa stoneslammer or whatever their names were

probably the hardest miniboss fight for me

[clear dome]

That thing is horrible

[cunning urchin]

Megagorgon and Skullcrusher.

[rare kayak]

yeah that one

[untold vortex]

ahh power couple

[rare kayak]

screw that fight

[clear dome]

Also is the new unbreakable projectile attack in the witch miniboss battle a new MM?

[rare kayak]

not sure, ive had mm perma on since they were added

[clear dome]

I barely play MM lmao

[cunning urchin]

I just use a summon to deal with the Power Couple.

[untold vortex]

nah, that's not new, it's been that way since they where introduced in blood price

[rare kayak]

real funny how that fight is just completely invalidated by athena dash though

[wet spindle]

Can i ask which boon and keepsake best go with guan yu spear

[rare kayak]

witch circle is shut down so hard by athena boons its actually pretty funny

[cunning urchin]

@wet spindle Heartbreak Flourish or Divine Strike.

[clear dome]

Chắc là Demeter or Artemis@wet spindle

[cunning urchin]

Depending on whether you want to go for a Special build or Attack build.

[rare kayak]

go cast 😉

aspect doesnt matter if you run ice wine every run

[clear dome]

Beowulf and Hera exists

[rare kayak]

how does ice wine work with beowulf actually

or for that matter blizzard shot

[autumn salmon]

couldnt get rid of the thunder flourish but mvp goes to long knuckle and support fire for this run. maybe a bit of lightning rod.

[half crater]

wait is lightning rod good now

heard it got buffed

[barren otter]

how does ice wine work with beowulf actually
you can see for yourself right here https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/757231497643032586

[queen moth]

any of the sword aspects are worth taking imo
@untold vortex I actually made it out on my 24th attempt, using the sword, Thanks for the tips

[cunning urchin]

@autumn salmon Divine Strike + Hunter Dash + Support Fire + Deadly Reversal is what I used to run all the time back when I pretty much played Malphon exclusively.

Zagreus Aspect, though.

[untold vortex]

No worries @queen moth

[queen moth]

[untold vortex]

Congrats

[queen moth]

I bought the 15% crit one and it worked super well

[mild briar]

Hey can anyone give me a good build for hidden spear aspect? 😦
i cant seem to succeed with it

the best thing about it i could find so far was the daedalus with double hit on dash strike and artemis dash

[clear dome]

I would say demeter, dionysius or artemis for normal attack

Try to get quick spin and large spib

[mild briar]

ignore special? it doesnt seem very good

[autumn salmon]

rip the removal of attack speed on zagreus aspect on Malphon. tho dodge chance is still ok. coupled with hermes's boon

[clear dome]

Special build literally any damage gods

And try for charged throw

[empty robin]

Special is the best thing about it what are you talking about

[clear dome]

attack is better smh

[mild briar]

wasnt that the lifesteal from x? 🤔

[empty robin]

If you get the explosive hammer upgrade than you simply win the game

[clear dome]

Attack is basically free healing

[empty robin]

on special I mean

Oh wait

[clear dome]

Explosive special is much better on Zag aspect

[empty robin]

this aspect isn't compatible with this aspect

mb

[clear dome]

And on Zag special is better

[empty robin]

It's been a while since I got back to the game

1.0 has been awesome btw

[clear dome]

I just played a lot recently bc n3w update

[empty robin]

Yeah same

How's school?

[clear dome]

Ams is....weird

[cunning urchin]

@mild briar Eternal Rose, get Heartbreak Flourish, swap to the Thunder Signet in Asphodel and go for Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air. Hammer priority is Charged Skewer > Breaching Skewer.

[mild briar]

thanks! 🙂

wait is "zeus aid" something specific or just chosing a zeus room?

ah zeus aid is call i think?

[visual holly]

Yes. Zeus' call boon.

[mild briar]

oook, thanks team 🙂

[cunning urchin]

Smoldering Air is their Duo Boon.

[night path]

i feel like melee gets punished for existing when fighting || Hades ||

i can't quite tell if you can avoid || his spin attack with dashing; sometimes it seems to work, othertimes, not so much ||

[cunning urchin]

You can.

Empty dashes have i-frames.

But if you Dash-Strike, it cancels your i-frames.

[visual holly]

Also if you have two dashes you can get out of the hitzone somewhat reliably.

And by "somewhat reliably" I mean my positioning is garbage sometimes so I can't do it always.

[lilac geode]

Hey quick question what did you do regarding aspects? I just beat the game and farmed some more titan blood. Shield seems to be my favorite aspect so I'm thinking of dumping my Titan blood into aspect of zeus and just go with it.

How dumb is this? Should I be spreading my upgrades instead?

[night path]

ahhh that makes a lot more sense about the dash strike

imo it's not dumb to dump titan blood into the aspect you enjoy the most

[reef galleon]

@lilac geode nothing is dumb, do what you think is best

[night path]

eventually, you can upgrade everything to lv5

[digital vessel]

Honestly they’re all viable

It’s my favorite part of the game

[cunning urchin]

You'll have plenty of Titan Blood eventually, so just spend it however you like.

[lilac geode]

just wondering if i should spread it for progression reasons or something... i beat the game but it still feels like i have nothing unlocked

[visual holly]

I like to spread my blood around evenly (that sounded wrong), but you can do whatever you enjoy.

[lilac geode]

some aspects like the first sword aspect feel like they're good out of the box (15% crit chance is awesome and that's 2 titan blood) but aspect of zeus feels like it should need more points

[cunning urchin]

I, too, like to spread blood evenly when I spill it.

Everyone gets their turn.

[digital vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/jurassicpark-blood-child-boy-funny-gif-4602231

[lilac geode]

is there any progression tied to spreading your blood?

like unlocking aspects for each weapon idk

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[night path]

you need guan-yu to get the others iirc

as well as the other aspects in a weapon line I think?

[cunning urchin]

Need to put 5 Titan Blood into any spear aspect to unlock the hidden spear aspect.

Wait no.

For hidden spear, it can be any weapon at all.

Just gotta spend 5 Titan Blood on weapons.

[visual holly]

5 in total between all of the aspects yeah.

[cunning urchin]

After that, it's 5 Titan Blood into e.g. shield to unlock the hidden shield aspect.

But first you need to unlock the hidden spear, after that you can unlock the others in any order.

[brittle vault]

does anyone know if you can get both a duo boon and a legendary boon?

[cunning urchin]

You can.

[brittle vault]

and multiple duo boons?

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

[brittle vault]

very nice

[cunning urchin]

And multiple legendary boons.

[visual holly]

Ares/Dionysus duo plus Dionysus legendary is gas.

[onyx parcel]

How do I get a legendary or a heroic boon?

[gilded knoll]

Heroic comes from epic swaps or from anything that ups rarity. legendaries are just rare and need a set of boons from a God

[visual holly]

There are also some other ways to get heroic boons (effects that upgrade the rarity of boons you already have), but you cannot get them outright without swaps.

Did you just edit that in or did I miss it on first reading?

[gilded knoll]

I only edited the second sentence

[visual holly]

Guess I'm blind.

[gilded knoll]

Unless my lizard brain did that without me knowing

[clear dome]

hestia is broken

[empty robin]

Yeah it's so good rn

They fixed the reload

Back to be a Hestia main

[digital vessel]

I do love Eris when I wanna just spray with Zeus tho

[visual holly]

@fading bluff could you please spoiler-tag your post in #hades-feedback ? I did not know that could happen during that encounter.

[fading bluff]

alright

[visual holly]

Thanks.

[lapis pilot]

having trouble with extreme measures 4? zag fists plus lambent plume plus hermes dodge boon

you can get, like, what, 60% dodge easy?

[digital vessel]

Dude zag fist with lambent plume is one of the most hilarious runs I’ve ever done

[night path]

is "l" rail aspect + explosive fire + Infinity chamber good?

[unkempt pagoda]

that accounting for dodge being multiplicative?

[lapis pilot]

i've no idea if it's multiplicative or additive

either way i lived

that EM4 is no joke of a fight

[fading bluff]

I'm not just doing EM4

I'm doing EM4 32 heat

and at 32 heat there's no way zag fists kills enemies fast enough for plume to proc

[spring viper]

Man the highest I got is 16 so far

[cunning urchin]

You can definitely kill fast enough with it even with JS3 CP2 DC2.

[fading bluff]

not consistently

you're going to get a lot less

[cunning urchin]

Yes, consistently.

[fading bluff]

how consistent

am I going to be at 30% by styx

although I suppose 15-20% is enough

if I can get the dodge boon

[cunning urchin]

I don't know if you will be. But it's definitely possible to get the bonus in virtually every chamber at 32+ Heat.

[fading bluff]

the problematic ones are the pre boss (before the shop) I feel

[cunning urchin]

Hmmm. Maybe in Elysium, but you can speed that up with a summon.

[empty robin]

Do people actually uses Plume on 32+?

[cunning urchin]

Yep.

Not really at 40+, though.

[empty robin]

I gotta try it sometimes

[cunning urchin]

@neon bramble used to use the Lambent Plume all the time with Malphon at high heat.

[fading bluff]

though, high heat or not, I've been killed by ||EM4 Doomstone|| at even 13 heat

those are just nasty

[empty robin]

Yeah I hate it too

[fading bluff]

and like

13 heat in this case isn't even really 13 heat

it's basically EM4 TD2

[bronze sorrel]

Anyone else feel like Bone Hydra needs buffs? Alecto and Power Couple honestly scare me more than Learnie, even with extreme measures. It just feels like a huge jump in difficulty from Learnie to Theseus.

[reef galleon]

yeah kinda

[bronze sorrel]

Its kinda a shame to, since its the one big epic monster battle of the game.

[onyx parcel]

Alecto is scary as hell

[empty robin]

Yeah she's just mean

[bronze sorrel]

She's definitely my least favorite fury to have to fight

[onyx parcel]

I have yet to meet the last sister but she seems scary too

So hard to fight against

[reef galleon]

Hydra's the most repetitive one as well. The changing projectile types from fight to fight don't really make for a great variety somehow.

[empty robin]

It used to be worse

[bronze sorrel]

Though if you're using Shady or Antos you can kinda skip Alectos final permarage.

[empty robin]

The were no variety at all until the Blood Price patch

[visual holly]

Well, it's still more variety than the bosses after the hydra.

[reef galleon]

The difference between them is that hydra is stationary.

[bronze sorrel]

I like the head variety alot. I just think Learnie needs a few more hit points, and maybe to make the main head chase you more effectively in the extreme measures fight where it can fly.

[visual holly]

I don't mind that tbh. Hydra fight covers a huge area anyway, especially between phases 2 and 3.

[twin mural]

what's good boon combos for rama bow?

i just got it now (couldn't play during the blood price update)

[reef galleon]

Chain shot + zeus special

[jade rover]

Man, I really can't see the appeal in the Adamant Rail, like, at all.

[bronze sorrel]

Man, I really can't see the appeal in the Adamant Rail, like, at all.
@jade rover you will learn to love it but it takes getting used to. Try running Zeus, Dionysus, Demeter or Aphrodite for your strike.

[jade rover]

I'll keep that in mind. It just feels less engaging and less powerful than Heartseeker.

[bronze sorrel]

The bullets have low base damage so they don't scale as well as other stuff, but they hit really fast.

So its perfect for Zeus and Dionysus

[unkempt pagoda]

try rocket bomb + cluster bomb, use artemis or aphrodite special

if you're looking for Big Numbers™️ the special is the way to go

[bronze sorrel]

Also, since you get good synergy with Dionysus, Zeus and Demeter, its not a bad idea to run festive fog as it pops up. You can beat the final boss easy just with festive fog even without a cast focused aspect.

[jade rover]

Oh, that's good, because half the time I forget cast exists

[half crater]

the festive fog build is to grab Scintillating Feast (Zeus/Dio duo) and Ice Wine (Demeter/Dio duo) in case you didn’t know

maybe the best cast build in the game?

idk, good either way

[unkempt pagoda]

second best

full wine is great, but it requires some skill, hunting blades doesn't

[half crater]

oh fair lol

true enough

[unkempt pagoda]

hunting blades also has easier access to fully loaded 😛

[bronze sorrel]

And ya, for special builds, like onyx said, Aphrodite and Artemis. Also you can pick up Heartbreak strike into Unhealthy Fixation for some nuts boss stuns, and support fire is great as a secondary attack boon.

[hard holly]

Was bull rush damage ever nerfed?

[bronze sorrel]

I'd argue that Curse of Drowning is the best cast DPS, esp with Achilles. Its bonkers how much damage you get.

[molten canopy]

There’s probably a spreadsheet out there with calculations

[half crater]

how does it interact with the achilles buff? does it count per cast or per pulse?

[cunning urchin]

Probably not.

[bronze sorrel]

Idk, but it melts through lord hades in seconds.

[molten canopy]

You underestimate how much some people like to make spreadsheets

[bronze sorrel]

Not sure its ideal for racing though cause at least in my noob pathing experience its hard to nail down the duo before late asphodel or even Elysium

[cunning urchin]

I've made pretty much all of the spreadsheets in the community that show damage numbers and stuff.

[hard holly]

Question real quick

Does Empowering Flight buff Bull Charge damage?

[molten canopy]

I guess we just have to trust your word on it

[bronze sorrel]

Or go try it for yourself ;)

[hard holly]

Damn, why did I get 3 special upgrades on shield

Theyre the only upgrades I never want to pick

[bronze sorrel]

https://youtu.be/BWB8u8vxd5M

Heres a video of haelion using curse of drowning with Achilles in action.

[cunning urchin]

Figuring out actual DPS is very difficult, anyway. It's not straightforward at all.

I guess we just have to trust your word on it
I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

[bronze sorrel]

Figuring out actual DPS is very difficult, anyway. It's not straightforward at all.
@cunning urchin

But it sure would be easier if we had a fleshed out practice room with boons and hammers ;)

[cunning urchin]

Not much really. There are too many factors.

[bronze sorrel]

But you could control the factors that way. Thats the whole point. Experimental controls.

[cunning urchin]

I think you're greatly overestimating how close a lab environment would come to an actual run.

The best data for runs is from runs.

[bronze sorrel]

Not at all, just want to be able to figure out how things interact more precisely. Like whether Achilles gives each tick of curse of drowning a 150% increase (I think it does)

Obviously if you want to figure out which boon is best in a speed run, you gotta do the speed run. But if you want to test an interaction its gonna be easier with less noise.

[cunning urchin]

Not that hard to find out in a run, though.

[bronze sorrel]

Anyway, not trying to resurrect this debate really. Its not happening anyway, so moot point. I was just razzing.

Maybe we'll get a mod one day

[cunning urchin]

Damage parser could be interesting.

[bronze sorrel]

I'd take that too.

[warped kernel]

what are good cast boons for shield HA?

[cunning urchin]

Passion Flare.

[warped kernel]

cause i was going to do a hunter flare and i just didnt like it

[bronze sorrel]

Just anything so I don't have to be like recording a run, playing it back, and saying "Ok, so I did X damage, and I had this 150% from achilles, 43% from chaos, 110% from Aphrodite..."

[half crater]

Not at all, just want to be able to figure out how things interact more precisely. Like whether Achilles gives each tick of curse of drowning a 150% increase (I think it does)
based on the above Haelian video, looks like you’re right

he’s doing 187 damage per pulse, which is ~(72+150%)

[cunning urchin]

I dunno, I think it's kinda fun to do research like that.

[bronze sorrel]

I mean, if they made it easier, theres nothing stopping you from doing it the hard way lol

[half crater]

i mean, 72+150% actually works out to 180 so idk where the extra 7 is coming from

🤷‍♂️

[bronze sorrel]

Weird

[half crater]

either way, he’s able to pop his special then have it effect multiple casts so it’s definitely working on a per cast basis

[cunning urchin]

Snoop Dogg.

Or Dr. Dre.

That's where the 7 is from.

[half crater]

ah

another mystery solved

[turbid needle]

i beat hades the 2nd time

[bronze sorrel]

I feel like I'm missing a joke/reference. I'm more of a wutang kinda guy, help me out?

[turbid needle]

i want my excalibur why is it taking this long

[hard holly]

There are way too many special upgrades for shield hammer

[bronze sorrel]

i want my excalibur why is it taking this long
@turbid needle don't worry, before you know it, you'll be drowning in useless darkness and titan blood like the rest of us.

[brittle vault]

can someone please confirm that summons don't work vs hades?

[turbid needle]

im poor rn

[cunning urchin]

@bronze sorrel 187. Dr. Dre ft. Snoop Dogg.

[visual holly]

Can disconfirm.

[brittle vault]

huh

[bronze sorrel]

@bronze sorrel 187. Dr. Dre ft. Snoop Dogg.
@cunning urchin gotcha, thx

[unkempt pagoda]

only ||skelly and sisyphus work against hades||

[cunning urchin]

Some summons don't work on him.

[brittle vault]

oh

[visual holly]

Oh.

[half crater]

basically his employees refuse to fight him

makes sense

[visual holly]

Yeah, it does, now that I found out about it.

[bronze sorrel]

Its basically what characters would dare cross Hades.

Skelly and Sysyphus doesn't afraid of anything.

Similarly, Battie won't work vs the Furies

[half crater]

can you use battie against the furies if meg isn’t present?

i assume no, but i’ve never tried it

[bronze sorrel]

I'm pretty sure no. I almost always have extreme measures on though...

[cunning urchin]

Nope.

[half crater]

yeah thought so

same re: EM lol

[hard holly]

Oh goddammit

[bronze sorrel]

Can you use Dusa vs power couple? I've never tried

[hard holly]

Even if I go through the other rooms I cant get the reforge thing to hit the right hammers

[void fjord]

U can use dusa anywhere except last boss battle

[bronze sorrel]

Also, is there any reason for using Dusas summon aside from her being adorable?

[hard holly]

Why are there so many bad hammers on shield, everything other than explosive return on special seems entirely useless

[half crater]

i like pulverising blow

[cunning urchin]

[unkempt pagoda]

dusa is best used in regular rooms

[cunning urchin]

Probably just your lack of experience to make the most of everything you get.

[hard holly]

Pulverising Blow is good

I meant the special upgrades specifically are bad

I just want Minotaur Rush

[bronze sorrel]

Well, they had a big risk buffing any special hammers for a bit due to Chaos aspect being kinda nuts

[hard holly]

I still dont understand why Chaos Aspect was considered good

[bronze sorrel]

That said, Charged shot is fantastic

[hard holly]

Cant say I share that sentiment

Charged Shot feels like Im playing vastly inferior spear

[bronze sorrel]

Try it on Beowulf

[hard holly]

Dont have Beowulf yet

[bronze sorrel]

Do you have Chaos at legendary yet?

[hard holly]

I never bothered upgrading Chaos

[bronze sorrel]

Well there you go

[hard holly]

My logic was always "Instead of using the bad special after bullrushing, I can just ... continue bullrushing?"

[bronze sorrel]

Pre-patch it was firing off 5 shields that bounce and kill everything in the room

[reef galleon]

The whole point of chaos is to have as many shields as possible. And you only get them once you've upgraded it to legendary.

[cunning urchin]

Chaos Aspect was considered top tier because it got top tier results.

54 Heat unrouted.

[hard holly]

Yeah but each shield does barely any damage

Its 15 base damage

[bronze sorrel]

It adds up with boons

[half crater]

i think you mean 15 plus ZEUS

[hard holly]

Even so thats, what, 60?

That still barely puts a dent in regular enemies

I can see it being good in high heat because the heat upgrades gimp the normally good weapons/aspects

[half crater]

you’re forgetting splitting bolt

and double strike

and jolted

[bronze sorrel]

Also to multiply by 5

[hard holly]

Thats ... pretty inconsistent

[half crater]

i said ZEUS, not just thunder flourish lol

[hard holly]

Like even with Authority at 9

[pastel yarrow]

How do you unlock the ability to upgrade weapons with Blood? I've beaten Hades once and have every wepon unlocked, but I still can't

[hard holly]

I only get that build sometimes

[half crater]

surprisingly consistent, actually

just avoid non zeus boons

also use persuasion not authority

[cunning urchin]

The damage output was never why it was considered good. The DPS was never that amazing. It's the fact that it could hit everything with low commitment.

Very safe.

[hard holly]

Yeah I can see it being good on high heat

But I dont play on that high heat because I dont like a lot of the heat modifiers

[bronze sorrel]

"Multiple people are typing"

Dis not the prepatch chaos shield or be put in your place lol

[hard holly]

And on low heat, shields special is just utterly pointless

[reef galleon]

the safety factor is always present as long as you're not immortal

[magic dagger]

you can call anything utterly pointless at low heat

[cunning urchin]

Well, low heat I'd just do whatever I feel like with any aspect. That's not much of a bar.

[magic dagger]

you can beat the game with nothing but common dio dash

[hard holly]

Eh, if you crank up Extreme Measures and the damage one and the time one

You do need a decent build

[bronze sorrel]

Chaos performed well in low to zero heat speed runs too, so no, sorry, chaos is also good at low heat.

[hard holly]

And Shield special just clogs up the hammers

[cunning urchin]

You can do low heat boonless with just base shield special.

[hard holly]

Yeah I cant imagine youll be able to get 5 minutes in Tartarus with shield special

[half crater]

pretty sure that’s been done

or do you mean just using the special?

[hard holly]

Wonder if its possible to create a mod that lets you blacklist hammers

I mean you can do 5 minutes without using the special for sure

With only using the special, I highly doubt it

[half crater]

eh, doable i’d say

[glass rapids]

Fourth aspect shield special tho

[half crater]

yeah beowulf make it easy

[cunning urchin]

Not like you need to turn on TD3 at low heat either way.

[glass rapids]

Esp with charged flight

[hard holly]

Im talking specifically base shield

Beowulf is a different story I imagine

[half crater]

honestly if you let me still bull rush i’m happy to prove you wrong with chaos right now

and i’m no speed runner

oh base shield

idk i don’t play base shield lol

[hard holly]

Damn, its really hard to figure out how the reforge result changes

[bronze sorrel]

Wonder if its possible to create a mod that lets you blacklist hammers
@hard holly
Just play the game more you'll learn to master all 4 elements and defeat the galactic empire eventually

[cunning urchin]

Maybe you could look at how to use your Special effectively rather than just dismiss it and complain. Something productive.

[hard holly]

Ive played the game since the beta

I know how to win with special

But its slow and not fun

[bronze sorrel]

But you don't have all the weapons upgraded

[hard holly]

I did play with fully upgraded chaos for a bit

Then reverted the save to keep my blood